October 31, 2025 • 37 mins
A single notification shouldn’t hijack your nervous system. When co-parenting gets high-conflict, though, even a short text can set off a cascade of stress that steals focus from your kids. We sat down with founder Sol Kennedy to unpack Best Interest, the first AI‑moderated messaging app for co-parents, built from his own divorce and supported by Dr. Ramani’s expertise. Think of it as a calm, intelligent “shield” that filters inflammatory language into clear, actionable requests while preserving originals for records and reflection.
We explore how the app learns your context, aligns replies with your parenting plan, and compresses message floods into a single daily notification. Emergencies still break through, so you stay responsive without living on edge. For anyone using Our Family Wizard or Talking Parents, you can import conversations via screenshot and get immediate coaching. And when legal documentation matters, Best Interest exports unaltered messages with timestamps so judges see what was actually said—alongside your steady, concise responses.
Beyond the tech, this conversation dives into mindset: moving from reactivity and “evidence mode” toward agency, boundaries, and regulation. Courts are slow, costly, and often fuel a winner‑loser frame that fails kids. Reducing conflict at the source—messaging—creates space to parent with clarity, model calm, and protect your peace. We also share a practical tool for another flashpoint: screens across two homes. The Co-Parent Tech Agreement Kit gives you a decision framework, scripts, and a shared log to end the tug‑of‑war without power struggles.
If you’ve wondered whether one parent can make things better, the answer is yes. You don’t need your ex’s consent to start using Best Interest, try the free AI coach, or set limits that honor your bandwidth and your child’s needs. Follow, rate, and share the show with a mom who needs relief today—and tell us what boundary would bring you the most peace right now.
Best Interest App: use code LittleHouse for 22% off your first year:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
Welcome to the Kids First Co-Parenting Podcast.
The podcast for smart,intentional, millennial moms
raising resilient kids afterseparation and divorce.
I'm Dr.
Carolyn Royster, a childpsychologist coach, and a mom.
After thousands of therapy hourswith kids caught in the middle
of high conflict households, I'mhere to help moms like you do it
(00:28):
differently.
From peaceful co-parenting tototal chaos, I've got you.
Here we talk boundaries,regulation, and how to raise a
great kid, even if your ex isbeyond difficult.
We blend science with real life,and as always, keep focused
where it matters on raisinggreat kids.
This is Kids First Co-Parenting.
(00:53):
Welcome everyone to the KidsFirst Co-Parenting Podcast.
I am delighted to have with youtoday or with me today, Soul
Kennedy, and he is the founderof Best Interest, which is the
first AI-moderated messaging appdesigned specifically for
co-parents.
It's inspired by his ownexperience navigating a high
conflict divorce.
(01:22):
Backed by the leadingpsychologist Dr.
Romani Dervasula, Best Interestshields users from toxic or
abusive language and empowershealthier co-parenting.
Welcome, Soul.
I'm so happy to have you.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
So happy to be here.
Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
Tell us a little bit about how that started, where it
came from.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Sure.
It's been quite a journey.
As I'm sure many of yourlisteners can relate to,
co-parenting is its own thing,right?
We didn't know what we weregetting into before we got into
it.
And now we're deep in it.
We're like, oh wow.
And that, you know, that was theexperience that I had taking
taking you back to 2020, rightbefore the COVID lockdowns.
(02:04):
It was about a week before thelockdowns, and we were
separating.
We decided to split homes and tostart doing that thing.
Obviously, it was an intensetime added on to all the COVID
whatnots.
And we were having a really hardtime, my uh co-parent and I,
communicating.
And with us, what came up wasjust a lot of just a lot of
(02:25):
communication.
I was, I was responding to andsending a dozen or mess more
messages, you know, a day.
Um, and it wasn't productive.
It was we were talking aroundeach other, over each other, and
just causing a lot of pain toone another.
And at the end of the day, wejust weren't listening to one
another.
And so there was this momentthat I remember very clearly of
(02:50):
lying in my bed right beforegoing to sleep.
And there was that familiarding.
Co-parents who use Our FamilyWizard will know that, of the
Our Family Wizard, you know,message.
And in that moment, I felt mybody just like tense up, my
heart started racing.
And in that moment, I realizedthere has to be a better way.
Like this, someone's got to fixthis.
(03:13):
And then there's a part of methat that thought, oh, well,
wait, wait a minute.
I'm I'm a developer.
I've created companies before.
What am I doing sitting on thebench waiting for someone else
to fix this?
I need to fix this.
And the first iteration wasactually I decided to hire a
friend of mine to sort of bethat mediator between the two of
(03:33):
us to manage my inbox, tell mewhat I needed to respond to.
I figured he doesn't have thesame triggers I do, and that
will, you know, make thingseasier.
And I tried it, and you know,there were parts of it that
worked and parts that didn't.
You know, it was a little kindof weird and awkward and slow.
But there was like that sparkof, well, this is helping me
(03:54):
feel a little bit better aboutthese interactions.
And so then when AI came intothe picture, um, I started
playing around with it.
I was playing around with mykids to make stories.
We were using it forstorytelling before bed.
And one night after I put mykids to bed, I thought, well,
what if I fed some of thesemessages into the AI?
(04:15):
Well, what would it say aboutwhat I'm receiving?
And it was, as anyone listening,if you've tried using ChatGPT
with some of these messages,it's so good at understanding
us, at understanding what'sgoing on and parsing through
these sometimes very confusingmessages.
And here I was feeling alone andconfused, and suddenly I felt
(04:36):
like I had an advocate, someone,something that understood me and
understood what I wasexperiencing, felt very
validating.
And I knew that that was what Ineeded to build with best
interest was a system that couldhelp co-parents feel less alone,
could shield them from the abusethat they are experiencing, and
(05:00):
also shield them from sayingsomething that might end up
causing them problems later incourt or with custody and really
protecting them.
So that's really the thebeginning of best interest.
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
Mm-hmm.
That's incredible.
And you hit the timing soperfectly with AI just
exploding, right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:20):
And what I really like about best interest, and
tell me if I'm wrong, but itseems as though it remembers
you.
It like it knows your profile.
It kind of knows your story,correct?
Whereas with typical Chat GBT,if you don't have the paid
version, every time you'd beputting in the context again,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
Totally.
And even with the paid version,you know, there's magic behind
best interest in that we trainedit on, we had a set of beta
testers for about six monthsbefore we launched.
And they allowed us to train ontheir data.
And this then allowed us toinform the algorithm so that we
(06:01):
were providing really helpfuladvice to co-parents,
specifically for co-parenting.
And so that's one of the keydifferences.
And you can even, with bestinterest, you can actually
upload your parenting plan.
So it knows everything aboutyour situation and makes sure
that your messages are inalignment with your parenting
plan, can be very supportive inthat way.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
If you are using something like Talking Parents
or Our Family Wizard, this is asupplement to that as well.
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
Yeah, it can be.
A lot of our customers are usingTalking Parents or Our Family
Wizard, and you can actuallyjust screenshot a picture of a
conversation that you're havingand best interest will parse it
automatically.
You don't even have to copy andpaste.
That's really advice on what'sgoing on.
So backing up for a second, too,just to describe for your
(06:50):
listeners what best interest is.
Please.
It does a few different things,but primarily best interest,
it's a co-parenting app thathelps you, it protects you in
your communication with yourco-parent.
And one of the ways that it canoperate is that you can download
the best interest app withoutgetting your co-parents'
approval, because we know someco-parents don't want to reduce
(07:12):
the conflict, right?
I think this is brilliant.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:15):
So you can actually download best interest today and
experience peace today just bydownloading it.
And you don't have to have yourco-parent agree to use it.
They continue texting you and itwill flow through the best
interest app.
Additionally, either you needsome extra help or you don't
want to communicate directlythrough the app with your
co-parent, there is a coachbuilt in.
(07:37):
And that coach is free.
So you can actually start usingthis customized AI coach right
from day one as well.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
Brilliant.
I mean, I often coach moms in myprogram to leverage AI and to
use, you know, like put in thatphrase that you want to say, put
in that section of yourparenting plan and ask it to be
clear about it.
The beauty of best interest isthat it's all there.
And I especially like that yourco-parent doesn't have to sign
(08:08):
off on it, as is the case withlike talking parents or our
family wizard.
Usually it's ordered and youboth have to do it, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:15):
And we do have some users that that do get it
ordered and that's starting toemerge.
But, you know, the court systemis slow.
It's slow to adopt newtechnologies.
I think in general, they'reapprehensive about AI.
And, you know, we've seen someof those headlines about the
lawyer using AI and getting introuble.
Those types of wheels move veryslowly, but you can actually use
(08:37):
best interest without needing togo that route, and you can
experience relief right away.
SPEAKER_01 (08:43):
I think that's really, really amazing.
What do you hear from folksabout how this helps them?
Or how has it helped you?
unknown (08:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
I imagine you're using it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
Yeah.
Well, it's it's helped mepersonally in a couple different
ways.
One is, you know, just on apersonal level, I was going
through so much pain.
And to be able to take that painand then turn it into a solution
for other co-parents that arestruggling has been really
cathartic.
I really appreciate that I'vehad this experience and that
(09:16):
that allowed me to say yes toanswering the call to serving
co-parents in this way.
Really meaningful to me.
This feels like the firstcompany that I've created that
feels like a true vocation.
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
That I'm really making a difference in the
world.
And, you know, backing up towhat you were saying about
hitting this at the right time,when I was visioning best
interest, co-parenting and AIhad never come together before.
That was just something thatwould happen in the future.
And once we launched, obviouslywe've changed the game.
(09:49):
You know, our Family Wizard isstarting to come out with some
AI features.
And I think there's arealization, oh, this could be
really useful.
But best interest was there atthe very beginning.
And we've allowed that's allowedus to sort of carry the
conversation and say, actually,eh, is more than just reviewing
for tone and suggesting a betterway of saying things.
(10:10):
This can basically serve as amediator between two sometimes
very opposed parties andactually create peace.
And then to answer your questionspecifically about what we're
hearing, every week now I'mgetting a uh heartfelt message
from a user saying that it'schanged their life.
SPEAKER_01 (10:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
And it I I'm feeling chills right now saying that.
I I it's so amazing to havedeveloped something that is
changing people's lives in thatway.
I'm just so honored.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
I think about when folks aren't in it, it's hard to
comprehend the amount of stressand that feeling of always being
on edge.
What you had said about likelying in bed and feeling like a
full body reaction to thenotification is something I hear
(11:02):
all the time.
Just the the level of stress.
And that's somewhat typical whenyou first go through a
separation.
There are these great caseswhere we hear about families
down the road being like, wehave a great co-parenting
relationship.
All of those people will tellyou it took a lot of time and a
lot of energy, and that therewere some bumps in the road.
(11:24):
And so I think to have a toolthat can support you along the
way is crucial.
Absolutely crucial.
Okay.
Tell me if this sounds familiar.
You set a screen time limit,your ex pushes back.
You create a new tech rule, theyfind the loophole by Tuesday.
(11:46):
If tech across your two homesfeels like a never-ending tug of
war, I made something just foryou.
It's called the Co-Parent TechAgreement Kit.
It's a$97 bundle that ends thechaos without engaging in power
struggles.
Inside, you'll get our five techdecision framework, ready-to-use
(12:06):
scripts, a digital incident logthat you can use and customize
for your own family, and aco-parent tech agreement
worksheet that customizes acrosstwo homes.
It's practical and built forreal life co-parenting, even if
screen time is something youdon't always agree on.
Just for podcast listeners, youcan use code pod 10 and get$10
(12:29):
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calm, clear, two-home familytech plan.
SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Yeah, I I agree completely.
You know, when approaching thisspace, I had been using our
family wizard.
So I knew what they offered, andit really wasn't doing anything
for reducing the conflict.
It wasn't reducing the amount ofcommunication.
All it really does or can do itis help you with your
(13:10):
communication.
So if you're on the side ofalready kind of doing what you
can to reduce the conflict, butyou're the one receiving
messages that are just feelingreally triggering and it takes
you out of those moments withyour kids or of recreating your
life, you know, that's that's aproblem.
And so best interest, we want tocreate this filter or this
(13:32):
barrier.
Well, we actually, one of ourusers coined this term, a
shield.
So we call this the shield.
The best interest shield sitsbetween you and your co-parents
so that you're not experiencingthat trigger.
You're getting a message that'sfiltered to really what is
essential for you to uh be agood co-parent.
So for instance, if you and Iare co-parenting, and let's say
(13:54):
I'm the one that's kind oftriggered and and and uh
frustrated, I might send amessage, Carolyn, because you're
always late.
I demand that you're here at 7a.m.
or I'm taking you to court,something like that, right?
Yeah.
We've all received those legalthreats on the daily.
And that can cause your bloodpressure to go up and and take
you away from the kids.
But if you were using bestinterest, what you would receive
(14:16):
is um soul uh would you wouldlike you to pick up the kids at
9 a.m.
or however.
And then that allows you to dothe function of the
co-parenting, do the business ofco-parenting.
And then we indicate, oh,there's more to that message.
So for whatever reason, if youwant to go in and view that
message later, maybe you'vedropped the kids off and you're
by yourself or with your whenyou're with your therapist, you
(14:39):
can view that original messageand you can still experience
those triggers because that'salso very helpful for healing,
is for us to feel the feelings,right?
We're not trying to prevent anyfeeling.
This is all about healing.
So you go in there and you cansee that original message.
But in the day-to-day businessof co-parenting, you're set,
you're able to function in amuch more efficient way.
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
I was gonna ask you, because I think it's talking
parents, where they will screena message and will either call
you or tell you, you know, amessage came through and it was
just way out of bounds and we'reholding it.
Like you don't get to have it.
We're not putting this towardsyou.
So best interest will screen outthose.
SPEAKER_00 (15:20):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (15:21):
And does it also do a lot of the moms that I work
with, they get um it's thefrequency of messages, right?
So it's like 50 messages in arow instead of one succinct.
Does best interest help withthat?
SPEAKER_00 (15:37):
Definitely.
Yeah, that's really common.
And it especially comes inspurts.
Like if your co-parent istriggered, you might get 20, 50
messages a day and then nothing,silence.
And so, yeah, best interestallows you for the very first
time to set a boundary with yourco-parent, even one that won't
listen to any of yourboundaries.
Yeah.
You say, best interest, I onlywant to receive one message a
(15:59):
day.
And what's so smart about thesystem is that you can set that
boundary.
You'll only receive onenotification per day from your
co-parent.
But we're all we all know thispart of the reason why we need
to stay in communication withour co-parent is in case there's
an emergency.
So we will review every message.
And if there is a trueemergency, such as Johnny's in
(16:20):
the hospital, we need you now,then that'll come through
immediately.
It'll break past that settingand it will notify you.
So you can still jump in thereif you need to.
SPEAKER_01 (16:31):
That's amazing.
Obviously, best interest is notpretending to be legal advice,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (16:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:37):
Or financial advice.
One of the benefits of some ofthe other apps is that you can
take them to court to showpatterns of behavior.
I'm assuming there's a functionaround that, or no?
SPEAKER_00 (16:50):
Definitely.
Um all of your messages and nowyour journal entries can be
printed out in a format that isaccepted by the courts with
timestamps, unalterable records.
And for your journal entries,you can also have it print out
the the map of where you werewhen you left it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:09):
Okay.
And does it tell you in theprintout?
This might be kind of anitty-gritty question, but does
it show like what they said andthen what came through to you
and what you like the AIsummary, I guess?
SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
Well, yes and no.
So in our exports, really theonly thing that matters to a
judge is what communicationactually transpired.
So if you receive a veryinflammatory message, even if
you didn't actually see thatmessage and you replied back
pretty normally, the judge isgoing to see what your co-parent
(17:47):
actually said.
Right.
That's what I would want them tosay.
Exactly.
So they're going to see thatoriginal message, unfiltered,
unprocessed.
And then they're going to seeyour message as you sent it.
So if you took the AI's adviceand you responded very simply
and straightforward, that's whatthey're going to see in that
printout.
So generally, what happens onceyou start using the best center
(18:10):
stap is the communication reallybecomes a lot simpler from your
side.
And it allows you to go to ajudge and show that you are
communicating in a much moreeffective way.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
It's really just an incredible tool that I kind of
feel like everybody should have.
I don't know.
Um how do you think it mighthave changed things for you if
you had had it?
What do you think might havebeen different?
SPEAKER_00 (18:36):
Yeah, I I definitely think about that.
You know, I appreciate havinghad the experience I did.
I think of my ex as um atremendous teacher for me.
She's she's taught me so muchabout myself through sometimes
teaching methods that I don'tagree with.
But it it can be helpful to gothrough that process.
(18:58):
And I feel so much strongerhaving gone through it.
And that has allowed me to builda solution for other people.
SPEAKER_01 (19:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:05):
You know, if I were able to wave my magic wand and
go back and have a tool likebest interest without having to
go through the effort ofbuilding it and it's just there,
yeah.
I actually probably would justgo along and do that because it
would have saved us so muchtime, money, heartache.
Because the the thing aboutthese conflicts is they grow.
If they're a label, they nevergo away.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
They never go away.
I mean, I was sending, I lookback at some of the messages
that I was sending in thebeginning.
I've never been a mean person.
I don't have a mean bone in mybody, but I was very defensive.
I was very verbose.
I was always trying to explainmyself.
Doesn't help, doesn't help atall.
And so, you know, all of thosecycles of the 20, 30, 40
(19:48):
messages on a row about a verysimple topic could have been
filtered out and reduced.
And so I think it could havereally changed uh our trajectory
quite a bit as well.
SPEAKER_01 (19:58):
One thing I respect about you that I remember from
when I heard my first, like thefirst interview of you, is
you're not you've not had thisnarrative outwardly or around
best interests that yourco-parent was the problem, the
only problem.
You were not at to blame at all.
If she could have justcommunicated better, it would
(20:20):
have been better.
And I just really appreciatethat because I think that's
real, right?
In in these conflictualsituations, even the most
amicable separations, people aregoing through a major life
stressor.
And kids are involved, and weall want what's best for our
kids.
And so I very much respect thatabout you.
(20:42):
That's one of the reasons I wasinterested in this app.
It's just I've never heard yoube like, yeah, it was she was
the whole issue.
And if I could have just gottena rein on that, you know?
Um, because it is, it takes twoto tango.
No one's perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
You know, and I actually I'm not a huge fan of
that term, the two to tango,because I think it's used in the
court.
It is in a way that that sort ofvictim shames because I do think
that there are situations where,you know, one co-parent is kind
of creating the conflict and theother doesn't know what to do.
It's but it's a dynamic, right?
It's always a dynamic.
(21:17):
And I think that it's verynatural when you're just
starting out, if you'relistening and you're just
starting out on this journey,it's super natural to go into
that victim mindset.
But the victim mindset doesn'tallow you to heal and grow.
And so the sooner you can kindof get out of that and realize,
wait a minute, you know, forsome reason I was attracted to
(21:39):
this person, you know, wedecided to have kids together
for some reason.
What were those reasons?
Why am I here right now?
What's going on for me?
How can I show up in thisrelationship in a better way to
support my kids?
And there's so many nuggets ofwisdom that can be gleaned from
going through that healingjourney and getting out of the
victim mindset and realizing,yeah, so this hurts a lot, but I
(22:03):
am playing a role.
And the role can shift becausewhen one person changes the
dynamic, then the whole thinghas to shift for any
relationship, let aloneco-parenting, it has to shift
when you shift.
SPEAKER_01 (22:16):
And I think it gets, I mean, I appreciate what you're
saying about the two to tango.
And I think our court systemdoesn't do a great job of
handling and understandingtrauma and how people present
with trauma.
And I think the victim mindsetis very interesting as well when
people have actually beenvictimized, right?
(22:37):
Or there's been domesticviolence, there's been abuse,
there's and then, you know, thea lot of the folks that I work
with, it's it continues.
It's post-separation abuse, it'slitigation abuse, it's and it
gets very, very complicated andsticky, especially as part of
the healing journey.
Because I think sometimes asfolks are healing, they start to
(22:59):
get into this like, you're notgonna do this to me again.
We're not doing this.
I'm now fighting back, and itcreates more and more and more
conflict.
SPEAKER_00 (23:08):
Yeah.
I mean, even just learning formany of us, learning how to set
a boundary with another person,let alone our our former
partner, is terrifying andchallenging.
And it's its own thing to figureout how to do that.
But let alone, you know, thereis a a stage that we all go
through, I think, where werealize this is not the way to
(23:29):
treat someone.
I I deserve better.
And then you like get into amode of maybe punching back and
like that doesn't help either.
No.
Right?
No, it really doesn't help ourkids.
SPEAKER_01 (23:40):
It doesn't.
And they're kind of lost in thein the mix of this.
What do you think along theselines, what do you see as kind
of the big trouble spots whenpeople are trying to communicate
post presumably that bestinterest can help with?
But where do you see we talkedkind of about the victim
mindset?
SPEAKER_00 (23:59):
Yeah, you know, I think one of the so best
interest follows a model of ourbelief is that by reducing
conflict, we're reducing theneed for court intervention.
So even though you can downloadand print out a report if you're
going to court and and you know,prove what you need to prove.
Um my personal philosophy isthat the court system, while it
(24:23):
is there to support us andoftentimes it does do a good
job, it also, like you weresaying, oftentimes creates more
problems than it solves formany.
And so our philosophy is can wecreate a better dynamic between
these co-parents without forcinga judge to come in and place
(24:44):
orders and then those need tosomehow be enforced.
It just doesn't really work.
With best interest, we'rereducing the conflict where it
starts, which is in thecommunication.
SPEAKER_01 (24:54):
What I'm hearing is it's a little bit of a mindset
shift.
So instead of like I'm gatheringdata, I'm gathering evidence for
when I inevitably will go tocourt, it's a mindset shift
around we're both prettycommitted, or at least I'm
committed, to staying out ofcourt because nothing good comes
from that, you know?
(25:15):
Even if you do get a strictparenting plan, if you do get a
very strict order for something,there's always room for conflict
around it.
It doesn't matter how wellwritten it is.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
And and any conflict results in more time, more
money, more complication.
And what I hear from myco-parents is that it is it's
kind of a situation where youabandon all hope.
You know, you do hear um a lotof success stories, but even in
a success story, this wholesystem is built on a winner and
losers model, right?
(25:49):
Which makes no sense.
These are these are parents ofchildren.
There are no winners and losers.
There's only losers when itcomes to the family court
system, honestly.
SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
Yeah.
So the losers are kids.
SPEAKER_00 (25:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
The kids are the ones that lose.
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
Yeah.
And and, you know, just circlingback to the progeny of best
interest, when I was trying tocome up with an idea for the
name, what to name this company,best interest was quickly rose
to the top because that was theterm that I hear heard most in
the family court system.
And every time they said what'sin the best interest of the
kids, I thought, do they reallyknow?
(26:23):
Because it doesn't seem likethey do.
And so best interest really isthe name is talking about what
we're here for, which is for thekids.
We service the parents, but ifwe can improve the lives of just
one child, then that's a hugebenefit to society, reducing
family trauma, generationaltrauma.
(26:45):
So that's why we named it that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Are you stuck in a high conflict co-parenting
situation?
The best interest app usesproven techniques endorsed by
Dr.
Romani herself to reduceconflict and protect your peace.
Join thousands of co-parentsfinding relief.
Get 22% off a yearlysubscription with code
LittleHouse22.
(27:09):
Download best interest from theapp store or the Play Store
today.
And I think there's a lot ofpower.
One of the pieces that I keepcoming back to is that just one
parent can can use bestinterest.
You don't both have to be onboard.
My work is very similar in that,where when I'm coaching moms,
there often is this kind of lackof hope that you're talking
(27:31):
about of like, we're justresigned to being in this really
difficult dynamic for a longtime.
And I've heard, you know, momssay, like, am I doing this till
they're 18?
Like, is that what we're signedup for?
There's so much power inshifting your own mindset and
controlling what you cancontrol.
And so it might be totally crazytown over there, but if you're
(27:55):
being more present becauseyou're not so caught up in the
communication stress, that is agift and that does help your
children.
SPEAKER_00 (28:02):
Yeah.
You know, we're as co-parents,sometimes, especially in the
high conflict dynamics, we arefaced, we are we're put into
what sometimes feels like theimpossible situation.
I talk about that on my podcast.
It's like there is no way toturn where this feels better
except inward.
If we can do what we can toadjust our mindset, adjust the
(28:24):
way that we're responding, justbe really curious about what's
happening inside of us.
That's where peace comes.
It comes from within.
Um, because there is no externalpeace.
Family core doesn't, it it justreally doesn't seem to be
designed to reduce conflict orcreate peace.
It's really unfortunate.
SPEAKER_01 (28:40):
It doesn't feel good, like you said.
Even if you quote unquote win,you don't, it doesn't feel good.
I think about how you hiredsomeone to read your emails.
And sometimes I'll do that forfor moms.
I'll read through stuff and kindof summarize and and be this
sort of mediator.
And what's so interesting aboutit is that something that is
(29:02):
totally triggering for you maynot be triggering at all for me.
But you have to remember you'vebeen partnered with this person
for a very long time.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
Have the backstory, you don't.
So Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (29:13):
Exactly.
I'm guessing you can put inthere something like money has
been a huge stressor for us.
And for many years, I'm justmaking up a scenario.
Like he thinks that I'm wastefulwith money.
And so this is why this messageirritates me.
SPEAKER_00 (29:29):
I I love that idea.
And we're definitely going to beintroducing more tools like
that.
Right now, what we do is welearn based on the communication
that comes in and the way thatyou respond.
And so from that, plus uploadingyour parenting plan, we get
pretty good at learning thedynamic, learning the
(29:50):
challenging points, and thencustomizing our recommendations
towards the way you prefer torespond that you have found.
Has reduced conflict the most.
SPEAKER_01 (30:02):
But you could say, you know, this doesn't, this
isn't quite my tone.
Or, you know, it sounds a littleloosey-goosey here.
I mean, loosey-goosey is not areally good, but can you make it
stronger?
Can you make it less strong?
SPEAKER_00 (30:15):
Yeah.
And and also just to clarifysomething for your listeners,
you know, best interest is nevergoing to actually send anything
on your behalf.
We're not a mediator in thatway.
We're not going to take controlof the conversation for you, but
we serve as a coach.
So when you send a message,we're going to say, you might
(30:36):
want to say it this way, andhere's why.
And then you can choose to sendthat, or you can choose to edit
it and customize it and and workon it more.
So you always have the final sayon what gets sent.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
I think that's crucial.
Because people are a littleafraid of AI too.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
Like it's going to take over.
SPEAKER_01 (30:55):
I mean, I don't know.
I personally really like it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:58):
So yeah, AI is not to the stage where it can be
trusted in that way.
You know, it it does requiresome hand holding and some um
it's just important to have thatawareness and that power to
change it when you need to.
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
So what is next for best interests?
Where what are you excitedabout?
What's growing?
What's changing?
Tell me what you what's lightingyou up these days.
SPEAKER_00 (31:24):
I mean, honestly, every time I get a message
saying that we've we've helpedsomeone's situation for the
better, it's just it lights meup and I smile.
And you know, we're growingreally fast.
And that's very exciting.
And we're growing reallyquickly.
It's so exciting to see peoplenot only say that like is
something they're willing totrust and try out, but then to
(31:46):
actually have a direct impact insuch an uh important aspect of
their lives.
It's just really inspiring tosee people adopt uh our
technology.
SPEAKER_01 (31:58):
I've noticed you've been growing on social media and
I've been seeing it out in theworld a little more.
It's very exciting.
And you have a podcast.
Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:08):
I um I started a podcast earlier this year um on,
you know, on this topic, on thetop of co-parenting and high
conflict.
And, you know, it comes from aperspective of that here we are
faced in this really challengingexperience where we have this
relationship that we're reallystruggling with and it feels
impossible.
And what can we do?
(32:29):
Because we can't necessarily, wecan't fire our co-parent, right?
We're stuck with them for betteror worse.
We have these kids that we loveso dearly and we want them to be
successful.
Okay, so what do we do?
And that that's really the thequestion behind the podcast is
how do we cope in this sometimesimpossible situation?
Co-parenting beyond conflict.
SPEAKER_01 (32:50):
We'll definitely link that so folks can can
listen to it.
And I think at some point I'llbe on there too, which is really
exciting.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
We're gonna be interviewing.
In a couple weeks.
Yeah, yeah.
I have been following it, andthe guests you have are just
really interesting, top-notchpeople.
It's not a surface-y podcast, itgoes pretty deep, which I
(33:13):
appreciate.
SPEAKER_00 (33:14):
Thank you.
Yeah, I chose from the beginningto have it be an expert-led
podcast.
You know, I I could ramble onand on about co-parenting.
It's an opportunity for me tolearn and to hear from experts
that have been doing this for alot longer.
And so we have on lawyers,therapists, coaches, kind of the
whole gamut of people that havechosen for whatever reason to
(33:39):
support co-parents, which by theway, I think is always a very
interesting exploration on thepodcast of okay, why are you
doing this?
Why did you choose this aprofession?
SPEAKER_01 (33:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
I think it's always uh it yields a very interesting
response.
SPEAKER_01 (33:54):
I, you know, we'll dive into this, but similar to
you, I think my experiencespeople don't find their way to
this work by accident.
It sure seems like it's touchedtheir life in one way or
another.
SPEAKER_00 (34:08):
It's a calling.
Yeah.
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (34:10):
I mean it's a vocation because it's not easy.
It's not easy work.
And so it's very emotional, it'svery triggering, it's many,
many, many things.
And it's never really done.
You're kind of always pursuingit.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
Yeah, I mean, it's one of the most challenging
human relationships that you canbe in, being a co-parent,
because it's filled withemotion, it's filled with
decisions that have to be made.
Plus, you add on, you know, thedivorce and all the things that
happened financially, therejection.
(34:46):
There's a lot that needs to beprocessed that typically in our
culture isn't really processed.
And then you throw these twopeople together and they need to
make these really importantdecisions.
Like, no, that's that's not arecipe for success.
SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
And they can't escape it, right?
It's there's you can't justdecide you're not gonna engage.
I mean, I guess you could, butthen you wouldn't see your kids,
you know?
So that's not really a choice.
SPEAKER_00 (35:13):
That's not a choice because we we love our kids.
You know, you hear the storiesof of some co-parents stepping
away or becoming kind of theweekend warrior, and that
definitely happens.
And I imagine that a lot ofthose stories started with a
really challenging co-parentingdynamic.
And that's really sad.
SPEAKER_01 (35:29):
I have seen that clinically as well.
Would you share any other placeswhere folks can find you?
So you have the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (35:37):
Yeah, the best place to reach me is I'm I'm soul at
best interest.
So if you want to reach outdirectly, you can shoot me an
email.
And also you can find us on CoParent to Beyond Conflict, um,
where we produce bi-weeklyepisodes.
And yeah, those are the bestplaces to reach me.
So bestinterest.app andco-parent to beyond conflict.
And I look forward to hearingfrom your listeners.
SPEAKER_01 (35:59):
And if if folks want to get the app, they can just
find it on the app store or goto the website, right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:05):
Totally.
Yeah.
We're in Google Play and in theiOS App Store.
And the app is free.
You can download it, you can usethe AI for free, and you can
even upload your parenting plan.
And then if you want to, you cansend it for the trial, which
allows you to message with yourco-parent.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
Well, that's amazing.
I didn't realize that it hadsuch a strong free component.
I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (36:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's important because AI, youknow, we're all kind of trying
to get used to AI and is thishelpful or not?
We've never used it beforenecessarily.
And this allows you to just towin and see, oh, this is actually
really helping me.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
Yeah.
That's wonderful.
We'll link all of that in theshow notes.
And, you know, we also have agreat code, LittleHouse22.
If you do a paid version of theapp, you can get a 22% off,
which is kind of nice.
Um, and yeah, reach out to me aswell if you have any interest in
getting on this app.
I'm happy to share how to getthere.
(37:03):
Thank you so much.
It was a great conversation.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of Kids First
Co-Parenting.
The best way you can support theshow is by following, rating,
and reviewing wherever youlisten to podcasts, and by
sharing it with another mom whocould use the support.
You can also connect with me onInstagram and Facebook at Learn
(37:25):
with Little House, where I sharedaily tips and encouragement for
moms raising kids through highconflict divorce.
And if you're ready to go deepand get more tools, scripts,
personalized support, andcoaching, come join us inside
the Kids First co parentingcommunity.
You'll find the details atLearnwithlittlehouse.com.
Until next time, remember yourkids don't need you to be
(37:47):
perfect.
They just need you to be steadyand grounded, and as always, to
put them first.
Thanks for being here.
Welcome to the Kids First Co-Parenting Podcast.
The podcast for smart,intentional, millennial moms
raising resilient kids afterseparation and divorce.
I'm Dr.
Carolyn Royster, a childpsychologist coach, and a mom.
After thousands of therapy hourswith kids caught in the middle
of high conflict households, I'mhere to help moms like you do it
(00:28):
differently.
From peaceful co-parenting tototal chaos, I've got you.
Here we talk boundaries,regulation, and how to raise a
great kid, even if your ex isbeyond difficult.
We blend science with real life,and as always, keep focused
where it matters on raisinggreat kids.
This is Kids First Co-Parenting.
(00:53):
Welcome everyone to the KidsFirst Co-Parenting Podcast.
I am delighted to have with youtoday or with me today, Soul
Kennedy, and he is the founderof Best Interest, which is the
first AI-moderated messaging appdesigned specifically for
co-parents.
It's inspired by his ownexperience navigating a high
conflict divorce.
(01:22):
Backed by the leadingpsychologist Dr.
Romani Dervasula, Best Interestshields users from toxic or
abusive language and empowershealthier co-parenting.
Welcome, Soul.
I'm so happy to have you.
SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
So happy to be here.
Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER_01 (01:37):
Tell us a little bit about how that started, where it
came from.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Sure.
It's been quite a journey.
As I'm sure many of yourlisteners can relate to,
co-parenting is its own thing,right?
We didn't know what we weregetting into before we got into
it.
And now we're deep in it.
We're like, oh wow.
And that, you know, that was theexperience that I had taking
taking you back to 2020, rightbefore the COVID lockdowns.
(02:04):
It was about a week before thelockdowns, and we were
separating.
We decided to split homes and tostart doing that thing.
Obviously, it was an intensetime added on to all the COVID
whatnots.
And we were having a really hardtime, my uh co-parent and I,
communicating.
And with us, what came up wasjust a lot of just a lot of
(02:25):
communication.
I was, I was responding to andsending a dozen or mess more
messages, you know, a day.
Um, and it wasn't productive.
It was we were talking aroundeach other, over each other, and
just causing a lot of pain toone another.
And at the end of the day, wejust weren't listening to one
another.
And so there was this momentthat I remember very clearly of
(02:50):
lying in my bed right beforegoing to sleep.
And there was that familiarding.
Co-parents who use Our FamilyWizard will know that, of the
Our Family Wizard, you know,message.
And in that moment, I felt mybody just like tense up, my
heart started racing.
And in that moment, I realizedthere has to be a better way.
Like this, someone's got to fixthis.
(03:13):
And then there's a part of methat that thought, oh, well,
wait, wait a minute.
I'm I'm a developer.
I've created companies before.
What am I doing sitting on thebench waiting for someone else
to fix this?
I need to fix this.
And the first iteration wasactually I decided to hire a
friend of mine to sort of bethat mediator between the two of
(03:33):
us to manage my inbox, tell mewhat I needed to respond to.
I figured he doesn't have thesame triggers I do, and that
will, you know, make thingseasier.
And I tried it, and you know,there were parts of it that
worked and parts that didn't.
You know, it was a little kindof weird and awkward and slow.
But there was like that sparkof, well, this is helping me
(03:54):
feel a little bit better aboutthese interactions.
And so then when AI came intothe picture, um, I started
playing around with it.
I was playing around with mykids to make stories.
We were using it forstorytelling before bed.
And one night after I put mykids to bed, I thought, well,
what if I fed some of thesemessages into the AI?
(04:15):
Well, what would it say aboutwhat I'm receiving?
And it was, as anyone listening,if you've tried using ChatGPT
with some of these messages,it's so good at understanding
us, at understanding what'sgoing on and parsing through
these sometimes very confusingmessages.
And here I was feeling alone andconfused, and suddenly I felt
(04:36):
like I had an advocate, someone,something that understood me and
understood what I wasexperiencing, felt very
validating.
And I knew that that was what Ineeded to build with best
interest was a system that couldhelp co-parents feel less alone,
could shield them from the abusethat they are experiencing, and
(05:00):
also shield them from sayingsomething that might end up
causing them problems later incourt or with custody and really
protecting them.
So that's really the thebeginning of best interest.
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
Mm-hmm.
That's incredible.
And you hit the timing soperfectly with AI just
exploding, right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (05:20):
And what I really like about best interest, and
tell me if I'm wrong, but itseems as though it remembers
you.
It like it knows your profile.
It kind of knows your story,correct?
Whereas with typical Chat GBT,if you don't have the paid
version, every time you'd beputting in the context again,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
Totally.
And even with the paid version,you know, there's magic behind
best interest in that we trainedit on, we had a set of beta
testers for about six monthsbefore we launched.
And they allowed us to train ontheir data.
And this then allowed us toinform the algorithm so that we
(06:01):
were providing really helpfuladvice to co-parents,
specifically for co-parenting.
And so that's one of the keydifferences.
And you can even, with bestinterest, you can actually
upload your parenting plan.
So it knows everything aboutyour situation and makes sure
that your messages are inalignment with your parenting
plan, can be very supportive inthat way.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
If you are using something like Talking Parents
or Our Family Wizard, this is asupplement to that as well.
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
Yeah, it can be.
A lot of our customers are usingTalking Parents or Our Family
Wizard, and you can actuallyjust screenshot a picture of a
conversation that you're havingand best interest will parse it
automatically.
You don't even have to copy andpaste.
That's really advice on what'sgoing on.
So backing up for a second, too,just to describe for your
(06:50):
listeners what best interest is.
Please.
It does a few different things,but primarily best interest,
it's a co-parenting app thathelps you, it protects you in
your communication with yourco-parent.
And one of the ways that it canoperate is that you can download
the best interest app withoutgetting your co-parents'
approval, because we know someco-parents don't want to reduce
(07:12):
the conflict, right?
I think this is brilliant.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:15):
So you can actually download best interest today and
experience peace today just bydownloading it.
And you don't have to have yourco-parent agree to use it.
They continue texting you and itwill flow through the best
interest app.
Additionally, either you needsome extra help or you don't
want to communicate directlythrough the app with your
co-parent, there is a coachbuilt in.
(07:37):
And that coach is free.
So you can actually start usingthis customized AI coach right
from day one as well.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
Brilliant.
I mean, I often coach moms in myprogram to leverage AI and to
use, you know, like put in thatphrase that you want to say, put
in that section of yourparenting plan and ask it to be
clear about it.
The beauty of best interest isthat it's all there.
And I especially like that yourco-parent doesn't have to sign
(08:08):
off on it, as is the case withlike talking parents or our
family wizard.
Usually it's ordered and youboth have to do it, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:15):
And we do have some users that that do get it
ordered and that's starting toemerge.
But, you know, the court systemis slow.
It's slow to adopt newtechnologies.
I think in general, they'reapprehensive about AI.
And, you know, we've seen someof those headlines about the
lawyer using AI and getting introuble.
Those types of wheels move veryslowly, but you can actually use
(08:37):
best interest without needing togo that route, and you can
experience relief right away.
SPEAKER_01 (08:43):
I think that's really, really amazing.
What do you hear from folksabout how this helps them?
Or how has it helped you?
unknown (08:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
I imagine you're using it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
Yeah.
Well, it's it's helped mepersonally in a couple different
ways.
One is, you know, just on apersonal level, I was going
through so much pain.
And to be able to take that painand then turn it into a solution
for other co-parents that arestruggling has been really
cathartic.
I really appreciate that I'vehad this experience and that
(09:16):
that allowed me to say yes toanswering the call to serving
co-parents in this way.
Really meaningful to me.
This feels like the firstcompany that I've created that
feels like a true vocation.
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
That I'm really making a difference in the
world.
And, you know, backing up towhat you were saying about
hitting this at the right time,when I was visioning best
interest, co-parenting and AIhad never come together before.
That was just something thatwould happen in the future.
And once we launched, obviouslywe've changed the game.
(09:49):
You know, our Family Wizard isstarting to come out with some
AI features.
And I think there's arealization, oh, this could be
really useful.
But best interest was there atthe very beginning.
And we've allowed that's allowedus to sort of carry the
conversation and say, actually,eh, is more than just reviewing
for tone and suggesting a betterway of saying things.
(10:10):
This can basically serve as amediator between two sometimes
very opposed parties andactually create peace.
And then to answer your questionspecifically about what we're
hearing, every week now I'mgetting a uh heartfelt message
from a user saying that it'schanged their life.
SPEAKER_01 (10:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
And it I I'm feeling chills right now saying that.
I I it's so amazing to havedeveloped something that is
changing people's lives in thatway.
I'm just so honored.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
I think about when folks aren't in it, it's hard to
comprehend the amount of stressand that feeling of always being
on edge.
What you had said about likelying in bed and feeling like a
full body reaction to thenotification is something I hear
(11:02):
all the time.
Just the the level of stress.
And that's somewhat typical whenyou first go through a
separation.
There are these great caseswhere we hear about families
down the road being like, wehave a great co-parenting
relationship.
All of those people will tellyou it took a lot of time and a
lot of energy, and that therewere some bumps in the road.
(11:24):
And so I think to have a toolthat can support you along the
way is crucial.
Absolutely crucial.
Okay.
Tell me if this sounds familiar.
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(11:46):
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(12:06):
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SPEAKER_00 (12:50):
Yeah, I I agree completely.
You know, when approaching thisspace, I had been using our
family wizard.
So I knew what they offered, andit really wasn't doing anything
for reducing the conflict.
It wasn't reducing the amount ofcommunication.
All it really does or can do itis help you with your
(13:10):
communication.
So if you're on the side ofalready kind of doing what you
can to reduce the conflict, butyou're the one receiving
messages that are just feelingreally triggering and it takes
you out of those moments withyour kids or of recreating your
life, you know, that's that's aproblem.
And so best interest, we want tocreate this filter or this
(13:32):
barrier.
Well, we actually, one of ourusers coined this term, a
shield.
So we call this the shield.
The best interest shield sitsbetween you and your co-parents
so that you're not experiencingthat trigger.
You're getting a message that'sfiltered to really what is
essential for you to uh be agood co-parent.
So for instance, if you and Iare co-parenting, and let's say
(13:54):
I'm the one that's kind oftriggered and and and uh
frustrated, I might send amessage, Carolyn, because you're
always late.
I demand that you're here at 7a.m.
or I'm taking you to court,something like that, right?
Yeah.
We've all received those legalthreats on the daily.
And that can cause your bloodpressure to go up and and take
you away from the kids.
But if you were using bestinterest, what you would receive
(14:16):
is um soul uh would you wouldlike you to pick up the kids at
9 a.m.
or however.
And then that allows you to dothe function of the
co-parenting, do the business ofco-parenting.
And then we indicate, oh,there's more to that message.
So for whatever reason, if youwant to go in and view that
message later, maybe you'vedropped the kids off and you're
by yourself or with your whenyou're with your therapist, you
(14:39):
can view that original messageand you can still experience
those triggers because that'salso very helpful for healing,
is for us to feel the feelings,right?
We're not trying to prevent anyfeeling.
This is all about healing.
So you go in there and you cansee that original message.
But in the day-to-day businessof co-parenting, you're set,
you're able to function in amuch more efficient way.
SPEAKER_01 (15:01):
I was gonna ask you, because I think it's talking
parents, where they will screena message and will either call
you or tell you, you know, amessage came through and it was
just way out of bounds and we'reholding it.
Like you don't get to have it.
We're not putting this towardsyou.
So best interest will screen outthose.
SPEAKER_00 (15:20):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (15:21):
And does it also do a lot of the moms that I work
with, they get um it's thefrequency of messages, right?
So it's like 50 messages in arow instead of one succinct.
Does best interest help withthat?
SPEAKER_00 (15:37):
Definitely.
Yeah, that's really common.
And it especially comes inspurts.
Like if your co-parent istriggered, you might get 20, 50
messages a day and then nothing,silence.
And so, yeah, best interestallows you for the very first
time to set a boundary with yourco-parent, even one that won't
listen to any of yourboundaries.
Yeah.
You say, best interest, I onlywant to receive one message a
(15:59):
day.
And what's so smart about thesystem is that you can set that
boundary.
You'll only receive onenotification per day from your
co-parent.
But we're all we all know thispart of the reason why we need
to stay in communication withour co-parent is in case there's
an emergency.
So we will review every message.
And if there is a trueemergency, such as Johnny's in
(16:20):
the hospital, we need you now,then that'll come through
immediately.
It'll break past that settingand it will notify you.
So you can still jump in thereif you need to.
SPEAKER_01 (16:31):
That's amazing.
Obviously, best interest is notpretending to be legal advice,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (16:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:37):
Or financial advice.
One of the benefits of some ofthe other apps is that you can
take them to court to showpatterns of behavior.
I'm assuming there's a functionaround that, or no?
SPEAKER_00 (16:50):
Definitely.
Um all of your messages and nowyour journal entries can be
printed out in a format that isaccepted by the courts with
timestamps, unalterable records.
And for your journal entries,you can also have it print out
the the map of where you werewhen you left it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:09):
Okay.
And does it tell you in theprintout?
This might be kind of anitty-gritty question, but does
it show like what they said andthen what came through to you
and what you like the AIsummary, I guess?
SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
Well, yes and no.
So in our exports, really theonly thing that matters to a
judge is what communicationactually transpired.
So if you receive a veryinflammatory message, even if
you didn't actually see thatmessage and you replied back
pretty normally, the judge isgoing to see what your co-parent
(17:47):
actually said.
Right.
That's what I would want them tosay.
Exactly.
So they're going to see thatoriginal message, unfiltered,
unprocessed.
And then they're going to seeyour message as you sent it.
So if you took the AI's adviceand you responded very simply
and straightforward, that's whatthey're going to see in that
printout.
So generally, what happens onceyou start using the best center
(18:10):
stap is the communication reallybecomes a lot simpler from your
side.
And it allows you to go to ajudge and show that you are
communicating in a much moreeffective way.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
It's really just an incredible tool that I kind of
feel like everybody should have.
I don't know.
Um how do you think it mighthave changed things for you if
you had had it?
What do you think might havebeen different?
SPEAKER_00 (18:36):
Yeah, I I definitely think about that.
You know, I appreciate havinghad the experience I did.
I think of my ex as um atremendous teacher for me.
She's she's taught me so muchabout myself through sometimes
teaching methods that I don'tagree with.
But it it can be helpful to gothrough that process.
(18:58):
And I feel so much strongerhaving gone through it.
And that has allowed me to builda solution for other people.
SPEAKER_01 (19:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:05):
You know, if I were able to wave my magic wand and
go back and have a tool likebest interest without having to
go through the effort ofbuilding it and it's just there,
yeah.
I actually probably would justgo along and do that because it
would have saved us so muchtime, money, heartache.
Because the the thing aboutthese conflicts is they grow.
If they're a label, they nevergo away.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:26):
They never go away.
I mean, I was sending, I lookback at some of the messages
that I was sending in thebeginning.
I've never been a mean person.
I don't have a mean bone in mybody, but I was very defensive.
I was very verbose.
I was always trying to explainmyself.
Doesn't help, doesn't help atall.
And so, you know, all of thosecycles of the 20, 30, 40
(19:48):
messages on a row about a verysimple topic could have been
filtered out and reduced.
And so I think it could havereally changed uh our trajectory
quite a bit as well.
SPEAKER_01 (19:58):
One thing I respect about you that I remember from
when I heard my first, like thefirst interview of you, is
you're not you've not had thisnarrative outwardly or around
best interests that yourco-parent was the problem, the
only problem.
You were not at to blame at all.
If she could have justcommunicated better, it would
(20:20):
have been better.
And I just really appreciatethat because I think that's
real, right?
In in these conflictualsituations, even the most
amicable separations, people aregoing through a major life
stressor.
And kids are involved, and weall want what's best for our
kids.
And so I very much respect thatabout you.
(20:42):
That's one of the reasons I wasinterested in this app.
It's just I've never heard yoube like, yeah, it was she was
the whole issue.
And if I could have just gottena rein on that, you know?
Um, because it is, it takes twoto tango.
No one's perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
You know, and I actually I'm not a huge fan of
that term, the two to tango,because I think it's used in the
court.
It is in a way that that sort ofvictim shames because I do think
that there are situations where,you know, one co-parent is kind
of creating the conflict and theother doesn't know what to do.
It's but it's a dynamic, right?
It's always a dynamic.
(21:17):
And I think that it's verynatural when you're just
starting out, if you'relistening and you're just
starting out on this journey,it's super natural to go into
that victim mindset.
But the victim mindset doesn'tallow you to heal and grow.
And so the sooner you can kindof get out of that and realize,
wait a minute, you know, forsome reason I was attracted to
(21:39):
this person, you know, wedecided to have kids together
for some reason.
What were those reasons?
Why am I here right now?
What's going on for me?
How can I show up in thisrelationship in a better way to
support my kids?
And there's so many nuggets ofwisdom that can be gleaned from
going through that healingjourney and getting out of the
victim mindset and realizing,yeah, so this hurts a lot, but I
(22:03):
am playing a role.
And the role can shift becausewhen one person changes the
dynamic, then the whole thinghas to shift for any
relationship, let aloneco-parenting, it has to shift
when you shift.
SPEAKER_01 (22:16):
And I think it gets, I mean, I appreciate what you're
saying about the two to tango.
And I think our court systemdoesn't do a great job of
handling and understandingtrauma and how people present
with trauma.
And I think the victim mindsetis very interesting as well when
people have actually beenvictimized, right?
(22:37):
Or there's been domesticviolence, there's been abuse,
there's and then, you know, thea lot of the folks that I work
with, it's it continues.
It's post-separation abuse, it'slitigation abuse, it's and it
gets very, very complicated andsticky, especially as part of
the healing journey.
Because I think sometimes asfolks are healing, they start to
(22:59):
get into this like, you're notgonna do this to me again.
We're not doing this.
I'm now fighting back, and itcreates more and more and more
conflict.
SPEAKER_00 (23:08):
Yeah.
I mean, even just learning formany of us, learning how to set
a boundary with another person,let alone our our former
partner, is terrifying andchallenging.
And it's its own thing to figureout how to do that.
But let alone, you know, thereis a a stage that we all go
through, I think, where werealize this is not the way to
(23:29):
treat someone.
I I deserve better.
And then you like get into amode of maybe punching back and
like that doesn't help either.
No.
Right?
No, it really doesn't help ourkids.
SPEAKER_01 (23:40):
It doesn't.
And they're kind of lost in thein the mix of this.
What do you think along theselines, what do you see as kind
of the big trouble spots whenpeople are trying to communicate
post presumably that bestinterest can help with?
But where do you see we talkedkind of about the victim
mindset?
SPEAKER_00 (23:59):
Yeah, you know, I think one of the so best
interest follows a model of ourbelief is that by reducing
conflict, we're reducing theneed for court intervention.
So even though you can downloadand print out a report if you're
going to court and and you know,prove what you need to prove.
Um my personal philosophy isthat the court system, while it
(24:23):
is there to support us andoftentimes it does do a good
job, it also, like you weresaying, oftentimes creates more
problems than it solves formany.
And so our philosophy is can wecreate a better dynamic between
these co-parents without forcinga judge to come in and place
(24:44):
orders and then those need tosomehow be enforced.
It just doesn't really work.
With best interest, we'rereducing the conflict where it
starts, which is in thecommunication.
SPEAKER_01 (24:54):
What I'm hearing is it's a little bit of a mindset
shift.
So instead of like I'm gatheringdata, I'm gathering evidence for
when I inevitably will go tocourt, it's a mindset shift
around we're both prettycommitted, or at least I'm
committed, to staying out ofcourt because nothing good comes
from that, you know?
(25:15):
Even if you do get a strictparenting plan, if you do get a
very strict order for something,there's always room for conflict
around it.
It doesn't matter how wellwritten it is.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
And and any conflict results in more time, more
money, more complication.
And what I hear from myco-parents is that it is it's
kind of a situation where youabandon all hope.
You know, you do hear um a lotof success stories, but even in
a success story, this wholesystem is built on a winner and
losers model, right?
(25:49):
Which makes no sense.
These are these are parents ofchildren.
There are no winners and losers.
There's only losers when itcomes to the family court
system, honestly.
SPEAKER_01 (25:57):
Yeah.
So the losers are kids.
SPEAKER_00 (25:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
The kids are the ones that lose.
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
Yeah.
And and, you know, just circlingback to the progeny of best
interest, when I was trying tocome up with an idea for the
name, what to name this company,best interest was quickly rose
to the top because that was theterm that I hear heard most in
the family court system.
And every time they said what'sin the best interest of the
kids, I thought, do they reallyknow?
(26:23):
Because it doesn't seem likethey do.
And so best interest really isthe name is talking about what
we're here for, which is for thekids.
We service the parents, but ifwe can improve the lives of just
one child, then that's a hugebenefit to society, reducing
family trauma, generationaltrauma.
(26:45):
So that's why we named it that.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Are you stuck in a high conflict co-parenting
situation?
The best interest app usesproven techniques endorsed by
Dr.
Romani herself to reduceconflict and protect your peace.
Join thousands of co-parentsfinding relief.
Get 22% off a yearlysubscription with code
LittleHouse22.
(27:09):
Download best interest from theapp store or the Play Store
today.
And I think there's a lot ofpower.
One of the pieces that I keepcoming back to is that just one
parent can can use bestinterest.
You don't both have to be onboard.
My work is very similar in that,where when I'm coaching moms,
there often is this kind of lackof hope that you're talking
(27:31):
about of like, we're justresigned to being in this really
difficult dynamic for a longtime.
And I've heard, you know, momssay, like, am I doing this till
they're 18?
Like, is that what we're signedup for?
There's so much power inshifting your own mindset and
controlling what you cancontrol.
And so it might be totally crazytown over there, but if you're
(27:55):
being more present becauseyou're not so caught up in the
communication stress, that is agift and that does help your
children.
SPEAKER_00 (28:02):
Yeah.
You know, we're as co-parents,sometimes, especially in the
high conflict dynamics, we arefaced, we are we're put into
what sometimes feels like theimpossible situation.
I talk about that on my podcast.
It's like there is no way toturn where this feels better
except inward.
If we can do what we can toadjust our mindset, adjust the
(28:24):
way that we're responding, justbe really curious about what's
happening inside of us.
That's where peace comes.
It comes from within.
Um, because there is no externalpeace.
Family core doesn't, it it justreally doesn't seem to be
designed to reduce conflict orcreate peace.
It's really unfortunate.
SPEAKER_01 (28:40):
It doesn't feel good, like you said.
Even if you quote unquote win,you don't, it doesn't feel good.
I think about how you hiredsomeone to read your emails.
And sometimes I'll do that forfor moms.
I'll read through stuff and kindof summarize and and be this
sort of mediator.
And what's so interesting aboutit is that something that is
(29:02):
totally triggering for you maynot be triggering at all for me.
But you have to remember you'vebeen partnered with this person
for a very long time.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
Have the backstory, you don't.
So Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (29:13):
Exactly.
I'm guessing you can put inthere something like money has
been a huge stressor for us.
And for many years, I'm justmaking up a scenario.
Like he thinks that I'm wastefulwith money.
And so this is why this messageirritates me.
SPEAKER_00 (29:29):
I I love that idea.
And we're definitely going to beintroducing more tools like
that.
Right now, what we do is welearn based on the communication
that comes in and the way thatyou respond.
And so from that, plus uploadingyour parenting plan, we get
pretty good at learning thedynamic, learning the
(29:50):
challenging points, and thencustomizing our recommendations
towards the way you prefer torespond that you have found.
Has reduced conflict the most.
SPEAKER_01 (30:02):
But you could say, you know, this doesn't, this
isn't quite my tone.
Or, you know, it sounds a littleloosey-goosey here.
I mean, loosey-goosey is not areally good, but can you make it
stronger?
Can you make it less strong?
SPEAKER_00 (30:15):
Yeah.
And and also just to clarifysomething for your listeners,
you know, best interest is nevergoing to actually send anything
on your behalf.
We're not a mediator in thatway.
We're not going to take controlof the conversation for you, but
we serve as a coach.
So when you send a message,we're going to say, you might
(30:36):
want to say it this way, andhere's why.
And then you can choose to sendthat, or you can choose to edit
it and customize it and and workon it more.
So you always have the final sayon what gets sent.
SPEAKER_01 (30:48):
I think that's crucial.
Because people are a littleafraid of AI too.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
Like it's going to take over.
SPEAKER_01 (30:55):
I mean, I don't know.
I personally really like it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:58):
So yeah, AI is not to the stage where it can be
trusted in that way.
You know, it it does requiresome hand holding and some um
it's just important to have thatawareness and that power to
change it when you need to.
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
So what is next for best interests?
Where what are you excitedabout?
What's growing?
What's changing?
Tell me what you what's lightingyou up these days.
SPEAKER_00 (31:24):
I mean, honestly, every time I get a message
saying that we've we've helpedsomeone's situation for the
better, it's just it lights meup and I smile.
And you know, we're growingreally fast.
And that's very exciting.
And we're growing reallyquickly.
It's so exciting to see peoplenot only say that like is
something they're willing totrust and try out, but then to
(31:46):
actually have a direct impact insuch an uh important aspect of
their lives.
It's just really inspiring tosee people adopt uh our
technology.
SPEAKER_01 (31:58):
I've noticed you've been growing on social media and
I've been seeing it out in theworld a little more.
It's very exciting.
And you have a podcast.
Tell us about that.
SPEAKER_00 (32:08):
I um I started a podcast earlier this year um on,
you know, on this topic, on thetop of co-parenting and high
conflict.
And, you know, it comes from aperspective of that here we are
faced in this really challengingexperience where we have this
relationship that we're reallystruggling with and it feels
impossible.
And what can we do?
(32:29):
Because we can't necessarily, wecan't fire our co-parent, right?
We're stuck with them for betteror worse.
We have these kids that we loveso dearly and we want them to be
successful.
Okay, so what do we do?
And that that's really the thequestion behind the podcast is
how do we cope in this sometimesimpossible situation?
Co-parenting beyond conflict.
SPEAKER_01 (32:50):
We'll definitely link that so folks can can
listen to it.
And I think at some point I'llbe on there too, which is really
exciting.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
We're gonna be interviewing.
In a couple weeks.
Yeah, yeah.
I have been following it, andthe guests you have are just
really interesting, top-notchpeople.
It's not a surface-y podcast, itgoes pretty deep, which I
(33:13):
appreciate.
SPEAKER_00 (33:14):
Thank you.
Yeah, I chose from the beginningto have it be an expert-led
podcast.
You know, I I could ramble onand on about co-parenting.
It's an opportunity for me tolearn and to hear from experts
that have been doing this for alot longer.
And so we have on lawyers,therapists, coaches, kind of the
whole gamut of people that havechosen for whatever reason to
(33:39):
support co-parents, which by theway, I think is always a very
interesting exploration on thepodcast of okay, why are you
doing this?
Why did you choose this aprofession?
SPEAKER_01 (33:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
I think it's always uh it yields a very interesting
response.
SPEAKER_01 (33:54):
I, you know, we'll dive into this, but similar to
you, I think my experiencespeople don't find their way to
this work by accident.
It sure seems like it's touchedtheir life in one way or
another.
SPEAKER_00 (34:08):
It's a calling.
Yeah.
It is.
SPEAKER_01 (34:10):
I mean it's a vocation because it's not easy.
It's not easy work.
And so it's very emotional, it'svery triggering, it's many,
many, many things.
And it's never really done.
You're kind of always pursuingit.
SPEAKER_00 (34:26):
Yeah, I mean, it's one of the most challenging
human relationships that you canbe in, being a co-parent,
because it's filled withemotion, it's filled with
decisions that have to be made.
Plus, you add on, you know, thedivorce and all the things that
happened financially, therejection.
(34:46):
There's a lot that needs to beprocessed that typically in our
culture isn't really processed.
And then you throw these twopeople together and they need to
make these really importantdecisions.
Like, no, that's that's not arecipe for success.
SPEAKER_01 (35:01):
And they can't escape it, right?
It's there's you can't justdecide you're not gonna engage.
I mean, I guess you could, butthen you wouldn't see your kids,
you know?
So that's not really a choice.
SPEAKER_00 (35:13):
That's not a choice because we we love our kids.
You know, you hear the storiesof of some co-parents stepping
away or becoming kind of theweekend warrior, and that
definitely happens.
And I imagine that a lot ofthose stories started with a
really challenging co-parentingdynamic.
And that's really sad.
SPEAKER_01 (35:29):
I have seen that clinically as well.
Would you share any other placeswhere folks can find you?
So you have the podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (35:37):
Yeah, the best place to reach me is I'm I'm soul at
best interest.
So if you want to reach outdirectly, you can shoot me an
email.
And also you can find us on CoParent to Beyond Conflict, um,
where we produce bi-weeklyepisodes.
And yeah, those are the bestplaces to reach me.
So bestinterest.app andco-parent to beyond conflict.
And I look forward to hearingfrom your listeners.
SPEAKER_01 (35:59):
And if if folks want to get the app, they can just
find it on the app store or goto the website, right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:05):
Totally.
Yeah.
We're in Google Play and in theiOS App Store.
And the app is free.
You can download it, you can usethe AI for free, and you can
even upload your parenting plan.
And then if you want to, you cansend it for the trial, which
allows you to message with yourco-parent.
SPEAKER_01 (36:21):
Well, that's amazing.
I didn't realize that it hadsuch a strong free component.
I love that.
SPEAKER_00 (36:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's important because AI, youknow, we're all kind of trying
to get used to AI and is thishelpful or not?
We've never used it beforenecessarily.
And this allows you to just towin and see, oh, this is actually
really helping me.
SPEAKER_01 (36:41):
Yeah.
That's wonderful.
We'll link all of that in theshow notes.
And, you know, we also have agreat code, LittleHouse22.
If you do a paid version of theapp, you can get a 22% off,
which is kind of nice.
Um, and yeah, reach out to me aswell if you have any interest in
getting on this app.
I'm happy to share how to getthere.
(37:03):
Thank you so much.
It was a great conversation.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of Kids First
Co-Parenting.
The best way you can support theshow is by following, rating,
and reviewing wherever youlisten to podcasts, and by
sharing it with another mom whocould use the support.
You can also connect with me onInstagram and Facebook at Learn
(37:25):
with Little House, where I sharedaily tips and encouragement for
moms raising kids through highconflict divorce.
And if you're ready to go deepand get more tools, scripts,
personalized support, andcoaching, come join us inside
the Kids First co parentingcommunity.
You'll find the details atLearnwithlittlehouse.com.
Until next time, remember yourkids don't need you to be
(37:47):
perfect.
They just need you to be steadyand grounded, and as always, to
put them first.
Thanks for being here.
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