October 17, 2025 • 27 mins
Court-ordered FaceTime, late-night pings, and surprise speakerphone moments can turn tech into a battleground—unless you have a plan built for high-conflict co-parenting. We break down a practical five-decision framework that transforms chaos into clarity: precise call windows, allowed platforms, device-free anchors, clear privacy norms, and a calm problems protocol for when things go sideways. You’ll hear why judges dislike being dragged into phone debates, what the research says about delaying smartphones and social media, and how small wording changes in your parenting plan stop late calls from steamrolling bedtime.
We keep it real with scripts for missed-call boundaries, tips for choosing simple, low-drama platforms, and ways to protect your child’s nervous system with shared anchors like phone-free meals and device-free bedrooms. You’ll learn how to teach kids to assert privacy—no more hidden recordings or third-party coaching—and how to create a digital incident log that tracks issues neutrally, strengthens your case if needed, and keeps communication with your co-parent steady and brief. The goal is simple: a calmer home, a steadier routine, and a child who feels safe and seen across both houses.
If you’re ready for tools that work when personalities clash, this conversation gives you the structure to reduce conflict and keep your kid at the center. Check out our Co-Parenting Tech Agreement kit for scripts, worksheets, and a fillable incident log, and don’t miss our High Conflict Communication Bootcamp for Moms for fast, usable strategies. If this helped, follow the show, leave a review, and share it with a mom who needs steadier evenings and better sleep. Your support helps more families find calm.
Snag your seat in the Co-Parent Tech Agreement Workshop, use podcast bonus code POD10 for $$ off.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
Welcome to the Kids First Co-Parenting Podcast, the
podcast for smart, intentional,millennial moms raising
resilient kids after separationand divorce.
I'm Dr.
Carolyn Royster, a childpsychologist, coach, and a mom.
After thousands of therapy hourswith kids caught in the middle
of high-conflict households, I'mhere to help moms like you do it
(00:29):
differently.
From peaceful co-parenting tototal chaos, I've got you.
Here we talk boundaries,regulation, and how to raise a
great kid, even if your ex isbeyond difficult.
We blend science with real life,and as always, keep focused
where it matters on raisinggreat kids.
This is Kids First Co-Parenting.
(00:53):
Are you tired of every FaceTimecall, of course, required by the
court, turning into a bigproblem?
Your child's crying, screaming,refusing to do it, not wanting
to do it, your co-parentsrecording, the times are an
issue.
In this episode, I'm going towalk you through the five
(01:14):
decisions that I want everyco-parenting mom to think
through when they're talking andthinking about technology.
Whether that be a phone, socialmedia, FaceTime calls, any of
those decisions, we're going totalk about all of it.
I'm very, very excited to bringthis episode to you because this
(01:34):
is a very common question that Iget asked and that we have to
kind of sift through with eachindividual parenting plan
because they're always a littlebit different about how and when
and in what ways tech is used inyour parenting plan.
If this episode really resonateswith you, we are launching a new
(01:55):
co-parenting bundle for tech.
It's called the Co-ParentingTech Agreement, and it really is
a full kit.
It has, of course, a classtaught by me.
It also has this five-decisionframework as a handout and guide
for you to follow.
You also get additional things,scripts, you get a digital
(02:19):
incident log that I created.
It has an example for you to usein it, but then you download it
and it's your own spreadsheetthat you can use to keep track
of things.
So incidences can be things likelost passwords.
They can be things like bullyingon the FaceTime call.
They can be things like yourex's grandma is sharing a
(02:42):
picture on Facebook, and Lordknows what her privacy settings
are with your kids' school logoin it.
It's kind of anything that fallsinto that area that you may or
may not need to be documentinggets put on that spreadsheet.
Again, I have found over theyears that this, that having a
framework for how and whatyou're documenting is incredibly
(03:04):
helpful, which is why I createdthis document for the moms
inside the Kids First Community,whether that's those that are
working with me moreindividually or in small groups,
or folks that go through theco-parenting tech bundle course,
which isn't really good use ofyour time.
It also has some scripts in it.
And then I have a fillableworksheet that you and your
(03:27):
co-parent, if you're morecollaborative, can use.
If you're less collaborative,you can fill it out on your own
and use it as some guidelines toput things into your parenting
plan and have discussions withyour co-parent.
Man, there is a lot here, andthere's a lot here for us to
talk about.
Let's dive in, my dear friends.
(03:49):
Are you stuck in a high conflictco-parenting situation?
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Romani herself to reduceconflict and protect your peace.
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(04:10):
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today.
It is fall in Colorado.
It's beautiful fall weather.
If you're watching this onYouTube, you can see that I'm
wearing my therapist superherocloak, which is a cardigan.
And I have a nice little cup ofwarm coffee.
It's like moody and cloudyoutside.
(04:32):
It's raining, which isn't verycommon for Colorado.
And the colors are changing.
Like it's just peak fall vibesright now.
I've been watching the GreatBritish Bake Off.
Last night it was like rainy,and I had my cup of tea, and I
was just like full vibes for thefall.
And I'm into it.
(04:53):
I love the fall.
I like the lattes and I like thevibes and the hats and the
sweaters and all the things.
I'm here for it.
I did a masterclass on this, andthen I developed a whole product
within our program that is justspecific to technology.
And that is because in today'sworld, this is not something we
(05:15):
can escape.
This is a really, reallydifficult question for a lot of
parenting plans.
And many of you will havestarted out with parenting plans
that were designed for youngerkids or were designed by folks
that aren't seeing what our kidsare dealing with in terms of
technology in today's world.
(05:37):
I can tell you, I have heardjudges say how annoyed they are
when co-parenting parents haveto bring something like, can our
kid get a cell phone to them?
They don't want to be dealingwith that.
They have so many bigger issuesto manage.
And I get it.
(05:58):
I get it.
And I also get that people feelvery, very torn on these issues.
When and how and in what ways,and who controls it, and who's
monitoring it.
These are big concerns forco-parenting moms.
Then you add in the potentialfor manipulation and the
(06:20):
potential for people to abuseand use their children's
technology for their ownadvantage.
And we've got a big, biglandmine of issues.
Most of the people, most of mylisteners are not folks dealing
with collaborative dynamicswhere they can sit down over a
(06:43):
cup of coffee at a coffee shopand have a fairly civil
conversation about when and inwhat ways their children can
have phones.
These are this is not that.
If you could do that, youwouldn't need me.
I say that all the time.
And I also say if Google coulddo what I do, I wouldn't have a
job, right?
The whole point is to havesomeone tailoring things
(07:05):
specifically to you and to bethinking about your unique
situation.
This is part of why this podcastexists, because we need to be
able to speak to the nuances andthe difficulties of those high
conflict dynamics.
And that's what we're going todo.
So if you are re-evaluating yourparenting plan, if you are
(07:30):
creating a parenting plan, ifyou have one that's solid as a
rock, which most of you don't,but if you do, you will still
encounter some of these techissues.
No parenting plan, in myexperience, has fully addressed
all of these because tech ischanging all the time.
The ability to be able to stayahead of it and to have a plan
(07:52):
that was written two years ago,three years ago, five years ago
that adequately addresses whatyour children are going to be
bringing to you just as childrenin today's world is unlikely.
I guess what I'm saying is thateveryone can get something out
of this episode.
The five decision framework thatI teach is really a nice, you
(08:14):
know, some of the steps you maythink, well, we've kind of got
that covered.
We know what we're doing herewith that.
And some of the steps you mightbe like, oh, that's kind of new
for me.
So depending where you're at,take what serves you and leave
the rest is what I typicallysay.
What are the five decisionframeworks?
My five tech decisionframeworks.
(08:36):
This is going to be things likewindows of time, call windows.
That's number one.
What platforms, what technologyis actually allowed.
That's number two.
Device-free times that everybodyagrees on.
Four is privacy norms.
Five is problems protocol, whichis a very fancy way of saying
(08:58):
what do we do when things don'tgo to plan.
Let's start with the firstdecision.
First decision is call windows.
Now, what do I mean when I saywhat are the windows?
The windows of time are presettimes as well as durations about
(09:22):
when the connection time can andor should happen.
We like structure here at KidsFirst.
Kids like structure in in life.
Moms like structure because weneed to know what's happening
when and how to plan for it.
Parenting plans that havelanguage around child will face
(09:47):
time with parent on Mondaynights are not super helpful.
That's not very structured.
What we would prefer issomething like we do calls
between 6 and 7 p.m.
at night to allow for bedtimeand play practice and all of the
things.
(10:07):
The calls last a maximum of 30minutes.
If we miss a call, we call backwithin 10 minutes.
During that window, now, some ofyou, I already know what you're
gonna say.
You have the type of co-parentthat will call you then at 6.55
and expect to talk for 30minutes.
(10:28):
So then you're at 7.35.
This is the type of thing that Iwant you to be really clear
about.
In your your language and inyour five tech agreements,
you're stating the call willstart between 6 and 7.
It will end no later than youcould say 7:15.
If that feels important to you,some people can can stop with
(10:53):
the boundary of between six andseven.
And that's good.
They just know to expect a callduring then and to be
prioritizing it.
This helps because then ifyou're picking up from practice,
you're gonna get dinner, youmaybe have something going on in
the evening, you can all planaround it.
And then there's also apredictability to it for your
(11:16):
children.
So this is a really importantdistinction to make when the
calls happen, how long the callshappen.
I do have some scripts inside ofthe tech plan about what to do
when the call comes in at 7.05or when the call comes in at
545, and you were not expectingit, and it's a person that you
(11:40):
need to hold boundaries with.
Sometimes, and again, for someof you more collaborative folks,
you're gonna respond to thatwith like, okay, not a big deal
tonight.
For a lot of you, that is a bigdeal because that's pushing
boundaries, that's not followingyour parenting plan, that's this
lot of like kind of subtlepost-separation abuse that's
starting to happen or has beenhappening.
(12:02):
And so that boundary will beimportant.
Decision two, what platforms andways are we going to communicate
or let the kids communicate?
When they're little, often themost common thing I hear is
FaceTime.
FaceTime andor Google Meet.
You could do that.
I have some families that useZoom and they use Zoom because
(12:24):
it's recordable.
We'll get to that because Idon't love that.
But I have people that use alldifferent things.
If you're using something likeZoom, then you have to decide
who's paying for it, who issending the invitation, whose
responsibility is that.
The same is true for FaceTime.
Who's calling who?
(12:44):
Do you both have iPhones?
If you don't both have iPhones,are you using Google Meets?
It's helpful to just have thatset in stone ahead of time.
As kids get older, there's goingto need to be decisions around
what technology they have accessto and what they don't.
Perhaps you've agreed we have aphone.
(13:04):
They have a phone, they take itback and forth.
Our kids, you know, 14, 15 yearsold.
Notice I said much older thanyou might have initially
thought.
And that's because the researchis extremely clear.
The longer we delay cell phoneuse and smartphone use, the
better.
And the longer we delay socialmedia apps, the better.
(13:25):
I will also link this reallygreat book by Jonathan Hayt
called The Anxious Generation.
You've probably heard me talkabout it before.
I would say the first half ofthe book is just really scary
about technology and how it'simpacting kids and deteriorating
mental health and risky play andlike all these things that kids
(13:45):
really need.
And then we get some reallynice, actionable things to do.
But one of the big takeaways isdelay it as long as possible.
And even in high conflictdynamics, we really need to be
thinking as much as we can abouthow to delay, delay, delay,
delay.
And there's some safety thingsin there, which we'll talk about
at another time.
But um yeah, delaying is a goodidea and definitely delaying
(14:09):
social media use.
So if you decide to do some sortof tech, a smartwatch, a phone,
an iPad that they can text on,keeping as many social media
things off of there as possible.
YouTube, Instagram, Facebook,Snapchat, all of that stuff,
TikTok, Lord.
I mean, nothing against thoseapps.
(14:30):
And my goodness, I'm on all ofthem, as you all know.
But they're not good fordeveloping brains.
And there's a lot of research tosupport that.
And there's also a lot ofevidence to support how easily
children can just go down arabbit hole of finding things
that we may not be ready forthem to find, or they might not
be ready to find.
(14:50):
Anyways, I digress a little bit.
You may have decided we have asmartwatch that goes back and
forth.
We're pretty good about it.
They can use it to communicate.
We sort of agree on this, andthat's fine.
What we need to decide on iswhen they can have Facebook,
when can they have KidsMessenger?
When can they access YouTube?
(15:11):
Is it YouTube Kids?
Is it just YouTube?
These are things that you guyswant to work through.
That's what decision two isabout, is kind of thinking
through these very explicitlyabout what makes sense and what
doesn't.
If you've ever opened a messageon your co-parenting app from
your ex and felt your stomachdrop, you are far from alone, my
(15:32):
friend.
High conflict co-parenting playsby a completely different set of
rules.
And if you keep trying to justbe reasonable, you're going to
keep feeling blindsided.
This is exactly why I createdthe High Conflict Communication
Bootcamp for Mobs.
It's a short, self-paced,three-day training that will
teach you exactly what to say,how to respond to toxic or
(15:54):
manipulative messages, and howto keep your child out of the
middle.
You'll get scripts, strategies,and a printable workbook you can
use right away.
And it's only$19.
You can grab your spot byfollowing the link in the show
notes, or go directly tolearnwithlittlehouse.com slash
bootcamp and start today.
(16:15):
That's learnwithlittlehouse.comslash bootcamp and start today.
Protect your piece, protect yourchild, and stop letting someone
else control the energy.
Decision three, device freeanchors.
Device free anchors simply meanswhen and where are we protecting
(16:37):
our children from havingdevices?
The most common things would beschool, bedtime, and or meal
times.
Dedicated family time.
At the dinner table, we have ascreen-free rule.
You know, we want to keep phonesand technology out of children's
bedrooms.
(16:58):
There is a really startlingresearch around how just having
technology in the room is enoughto disrupt a child's sleep, even
if they're not looking at it.
They're charging it across theroom, it will still disrupt
their sleep patterns.
And we all know that most kidsaren't charging them across the
(17:18):
room, right?
They're next, they're next totheir bed.
We wanna have a rule that theyreturn to the charging station,
which is not in their bedroom.
A lot of people do around dinnertime.
Now you have to be carefulbecause if you've had your call
window set for six to seven, youcan't have dinner from six to
seven if you can't have accessto your phone.
You have to kind of think abouthow this is gonna work with your
(17:40):
family.
You see how these things buildon themselves.
No child should be expected totext back during school.
There really isn't a reason forthat.
They need to be focusing.
And definitely in the middle ofthe night, like we want them
sleeping, not on their phones.
Having some screen-free timesthat you both can agree with
(18:02):
across homes might be reallyhelpful.
Or just in your home.
You may not be able, you are notgoing to be able to say to your
co-parent, like, we're not goingto have phones at dinner time.
For many of you, that will justcreate a conflict that creates
dynamic where you're kind oftrying to control or influence
what's happening at their house.
(18:22):
And you've probably decided thatthat's not something you're
going to be doing.
I respect if you can't do that.
And then you just are in chargeof what happens at your house
and you're saying, you know,we're not doing this here.
Decision four, privacy norms.
What are we going to do aboutprivacy?
What are the rules?
Is there how do we feel aboutspeakerphone?
(18:44):
I hate being put on speakerphonewhen I don't know that I'm on
speakerphone.
And a little heads up is nice.
Hey, you're on speakerphone withme and dad.
Or you're in, you're onBluetooth in the car.
Everybody can hear you.
As well as recording.
And then a lot of times we addin no third-party coaching.
We don't have somebody standingin the sidelines, literally, or
(19:07):
through AI, that's saying, saythis to the kid.
Don't say this.
Tell him about that.
We're trying not to do that kindof stuff.
It can't, I mean, I thinkthere's kind of harmless things
around that.
Like if you're driving orsomething and the phone rings,
you might be like, hey, youshould tell your dad about that
great award you got at schooltoday.
(19:27):
That could be great, but thatcould also be seen as directing
their time together.
And so you may choose not to dothat, depending on how
conflictual things are.
We also talk with kids about howthey can respond when they feel
like their privacy is beingpushed.
They could say something like, Idon't want my tick picture
(19:48):
taken, or I don't like when yourecord me, or I don't really
want to answer that.
These are all hard things forkids to learn how to do, not
just with a parent, but also inlife.
We're working on that skill withthem.
All right, decision number five,our last one.
It's the problem protocol.
(20:10):
I need you to think ahead alittle bit about what is our
plan for when rules get broken,because of course your children
are going to break the rules.
Andor tech goes wrong.
We find out someone was bullyingsomeone, somebody's password got
lost, somebody got hacked,somebody got into a place in
(20:33):
Minecraft that we didn't evenknow they could go, and now
we've got a big old problem onour hands.
Yes, we create the plans so thatthe problems hopefully were
ahead of them.
However, we don't always knowthe problem until we have it.
I want you to not only have away and a system of how you
(20:55):
document things, thus thedigital incident log, but I also
want you to have a framework forwhich how you communicate those
problems to your co-parent.
It is important in a in thespirit of co-parenting that, you
know, you can share some ofthese things with them as
potential dangers.
Let's say your kid does haveYouTube and let's say they wind
(21:19):
up a video about I don't know,how to bully other kids.
Or, you know, a few years agowhen kids were seeing this like
horrible video pop up onchildren's content and it
referenced suicide.
And let's say that happened onyour parenting time.
You had all these things inplace, you had no idea this was
(21:40):
gonna happen.
None of us had any idea that wasgonna happen.
When it did, what is yoursystem?
What is your protocol to thenlet your co-parent know, hey,
she was on YouTube kids, thiscrazy video popped up.
Here's how I handled it, and Ialso want you to be aware of it
so so you can take precautionsat your house.
(22:00):
You want to have a system forthat.
That's what the problem protocolis.
That is also what the digitalincident log tracking is gonna
be good for because it will tellyou what did you do, then what
did you tell your co-parent, andwas there any follow-up needed?
Well, you know, in thissituation, let's say it was on a
school computer.
Well, then you need to follow upwith the school.
(22:21):
There's a lot of layers to theseproblems that can come up, and
they're very tricky andcomplicated.
I want you to have a protocol ofwhat you do.
Typically, that's going to looklike something along the lines
of document the event in thedigital incident log, send a
neutral notice through yourco-parenting app, usually within
(22:42):
a day, 24 hours, you could say,This is what happened, this is
what, this is how I handled it,offering a repair option to the
child and or to your co-parentif you need it.
So, hey, I don't really knowwhat to do about this.
Or this is what I did.
I, you know, I put X XYZparental control on.
(23:05):
Or I we had a long conversationabout what she saw and what it
meant.
And I encouraged her to also askyou questions.
You can escalate if needed.
So this would be more along thelines of something, something
like repeated calls outside ofyour agreed-upon call window.
So we're getting a lot of callsat 7:30.
(23:27):
We're getting a lot of calls at8 o'clock.
We're getting really, reallyupset when you can't answer the
phone because it's outside ofthe window.
And so we have some scripts andthings like that.
You do the same thing.
You document it, you'd send aneutral note, notice that you
called a little late tonight.
Uh, we'll return your calltomorrow between our agreed upon
(23:49):
six and seven o'clock.
And what to escalate and when ifthe pattern continues.
This might seem like a lot, andit and it can be.
And it also isn't a lot becauseas parents in today's world, we
are navigating technology allthe time, anyways.
(24:11):
And we need some guidelines.
I think this framework is a veryhelpful thing for you to think
through kind of the five bigareas around any tech decision.
It helps if you can apply thisto each scenario and use it to
make your decisions and to makerules and expectations.
(24:33):
Tech is not really something wecan fly by the seat of our pants
on, unfortunately.
Like many things in parenting,we were like, well, we'll figure
it out as we go.
Tech might be for otherfamilies, but in high conflict
co-parenting, it really isn't.
You need to have preemptivediscussions, preemptive thinking
about these things because itwill happen.
(24:54):
You want to post these fiveframeworks on your fridge.
You want to work through theworksheets, you want to have
your scripts ready to go, andyou want to have systems in
place to track what you need totrack, as well as be monitoring
your kids and what is happening.
Potential landmines that I wantyou to watch out for are bending
(25:16):
the rules just this once,letting missed calls kind of
hijack what you're alreadydoing, handing a phone to a
really dysregulated kid, knowingthat things are going to be
really rough, and still makingthem sit on the call, which is a
whole other episode, and we'lltalk about how to handle that.
But I think this is a place toget you started on managing
(25:40):
technology and making some ofthese decisions.
If you need more support, wehave it.
The co-parenting tech agreementkit is just a really good tool
for you to have.
It is on our website for$97.
Podcast listeners can use codepod 10 and get$10 off when
(26:01):
they're ready to do it, which ifyou're listening to this
episode, you probably are.
As always, I'm grateful for yourtime.
If you have any specificquestions that you'd like me to
answer, do them my way.
Thanks again, y'all.
See you soon.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of Kids First
Co-Parenting.
(26:22):
The best way you can support theshow is by following, rating,
and reviewing wherever youlisten to podcasts, and by
sharing it with another mom whocould use the support.
You can also connect with me onInstagram and Facebook at Learn
with Little House, where I sharedaily tips and encouragement for
moms raising kids through highconflict divorce.
(26:42):
And if you're ready to go deepand get more tools, scripts,
personalized support, andcoaching, come join us inside
the Kids First co-parentingcommunity.
You'll find the details atlearnwithlittlehouse.com.
Until next time, remember, yourkids don't need you to be
perfect.
They just need you to be steadyand grounded.
And as always, put them first.
(27:03):
Thanks for being here.
Welcome to the Kids First Co-Parenting Podcast, the
podcast for smart, intentional,millennial moms raising
resilient kids after separationand divorce.
I'm Dr.
Carolyn Royster, a childpsychologist, coach, and a mom.
After thousands of therapy hourswith kids caught in the middle
of high-conflict households, I'mhere to help moms like you do it
(00:29):
differently.
From peaceful co-parenting tototal chaos, I've got you.
Here we talk boundaries,regulation, and how to raise a
great kid, even if your ex isbeyond difficult.
We blend science with real life,and as always, keep focused
where it matters on raisinggreat kids.
This is Kids First Co-Parenting.
(00:53):
Are you tired of every FaceTimecall, of course, required by the
court, turning into a bigproblem?
Your child's crying, screaming,refusing to do it, not wanting
to do it, your co-parentsrecording, the times are an
issue.
In this episode, I'm going towalk you through the five
(01:14):
decisions that I want everyco-parenting mom to think
through when they're talking andthinking about technology.
Whether that be a phone, socialmedia, FaceTime calls, any of
those decisions, we're going totalk about all of it.
I'm very, very excited to bringthis episode to you because this
(01:34):
is a very common question that Iget asked and that we have to
kind of sift through with eachindividual parenting plan
because they're always a littlebit different about how and when
and in what ways tech is used inyour parenting plan.
If this episode really resonateswith you, we are launching a new
(01:55):
co-parenting bundle for tech.
It's called the Co-ParentingTech Agreement, and it really is
a full kit.
It has, of course, a classtaught by me.
It also has this five-decisionframework as a handout and guide
for you to follow.
You also get additional things,scripts, you get a digital
(02:19):
incident log that I created.
It has an example for you to usein it, but then you download it
and it's your own spreadsheetthat you can use to keep track
of things.
So incidences can be things likelost passwords.
They can be things like bullyingon the FaceTime call.
They can be things like yourex's grandma is sharing a
(02:42):
picture on Facebook, and Lordknows what her privacy settings
are with your kids' school logoin it.
It's kind of anything that fallsinto that area that you may or
may not need to be documentinggets put on that spreadsheet.
Again, I have found over theyears that this, that having a
framework for how and whatyou're documenting is incredibly
(03:04):
helpful, which is why I createdthis document for the moms
inside the Kids First Community,whether that's those that are
working with me moreindividually or in small groups,
or folks that go through theco-parenting tech bundle course,
which isn't really good use ofyour time.
It also has some scripts in it.
And then I have a fillableworksheet that you and your
(03:27):
co-parent, if you're morecollaborative, can use.
If you're less collaborative,you can fill it out on your own
and use it as some guidelines toput things into your parenting
plan and have discussions withyour co-parent.
Man, there is a lot here, andthere's a lot here for us to
talk about.
Let's dive in, my dear friends.
(03:49):
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It is fall in Colorado.
It's beautiful fall weather.
If you're watching this onYouTube, you can see that I'm
wearing my therapist superherocloak, which is a cardigan.
And I have a nice little cup ofwarm coffee.
It's like moody and cloudyoutside.
(04:32):
It's raining, which isn't verycommon for Colorado.
And the colors are changing.
Like it's just peak fall vibesright now.
I've been watching the GreatBritish Bake Off.
Last night it was like rainy,and I had my cup of tea, and I
was just like full vibes for thefall.
And I'm into it.
(04:53):
I love the fall.
I like the lattes and I like thevibes and the hats and the
sweaters and all the things.
I'm here for it.
I did a masterclass on this, andthen I developed a whole product
within our program that is justspecific to technology.
And that is because in today'sworld, this is not something we
(05:15):
can escape.
This is a really, reallydifficult question for a lot of
parenting plans.
And many of you will havestarted out with parenting plans
that were designed for youngerkids or were designed by folks
that aren't seeing what our kidsare dealing with in terms of
technology in today's world.
(05:37):
I can tell you, I have heardjudges say how annoyed they are
when co-parenting parents haveto bring something like, can our
kid get a cell phone to them?
They don't want to be dealingwith that.
They have so many bigger issuesto manage.
And I get it.
(05:58):
I get it.
And I also get that people feelvery, very torn on these issues.
When and how and in what ways,and who controls it, and who's
monitoring it.
These are big concerns forco-parenting moms.
Then you add in the potentialfor manipulation and the
(06:20):
potential for people to abuseand use their children's
technology for their ownadvantage.
And we've got a big, biglandmine of issues.
Most of the people, most of mylisteners are not folks dealing
with collaborative dynamicswhere they can sit down over a
(06:43):
cup of coffee at a coffee shopand have a fairly civil
conversation about when and inwhat ways their children can
have phones.
These are this is not that.
If you could do that, youwouldn't need me.
I say that all the time.
And I also say if Google coulddo what I do, I wouldn't have a
job, right?
The whole point is to havesomeone tailoring things
(07:05):
specifically to you and to bethinking about your unique
situation.
This is part of why this podcastexists, because we need to be
able to speak to the nuances andthe difficulties of those high
conflict dynamics.
And that's what we're going todo.
So if you are re-evaluating yourparenting plan, if you are
(07:30):
creating a parenting plan, ifyou have one that's solid as a
rock, which most of you don't,but if you do, you will still
encounter some of these techissues.
No parenting plan, in myexperience, has fully addressed
all of these because tech ischanging all the time.
The ability to be able to stayahead of it and to have a plan
(07:52):
that was written two years ago,three years ago, five years ago
that adequately addresses whatyour children are going to be
bringing to you just as childrenin today's world is unlikely.
I guess what I'm saying is thateveryone can get something out
of this episode.
The five decision framework thatI teach is really a nice, you
(08:14):
know, some of the steps you maythink, well, we've kind of got
that covered.
We know what we're doing herewith that.
And some of the steps you mightbe like, oh, that's kind of new
for me.
So depending where you're at,take what serves you and leave
the rest is what I typicallysay.
What are the five decisionframeworks?
My five tech decisionframeworks.
(08:36):
This is going to be things likewindows of time, call windows.
That's number one.
What platforms, what technologyis actually allowed.
That's number two.
Device-free times that everybodyagrees on.
Four is privacy norms.
Five is problems protocol, whichis a very fancy way of saying
(08:58):
what do we do when things don'tgo to plan.
Let's start with the firstdecision.
First decision is call windows.
Now, what do I mean when I saywhat are the windows?
The windows of time are presettimes as well as durations about
(09:22):
when the connection time can andor should happen.
We like structure here at KidsFirst.
Kids like structure in in life.
Moms like structure because weneed to know what's happening
when and how to plan for it.
Parenting plans that havelanguage around child will face
(09:47):
time with parent on Mondaynights are not super helpful.
That's not very structured.
What we would prefer issomething like we do calls
between 6 and 7 p.m.
at night to allow for bedtimeand play practice and all of the
things.
(10:07):
The calls last a maximum of 30minutes.
If we miss a call, we call backwithin 10 minutes.
During that window, now, some ofyou, I already know what you're
gonna say.
You have the type of co-parentthat will call you then at 6.55
and expect to talk for 30minutes.
(10:28):
So then you're at 7.35.
This is the type of thing that Iwant you to be really clear
about.
In your your language and inyour five tech agreements,
you're stating the call willstart between 6 and 7.
It will end no later than youcould say 7:15.
If that feels important to you,some people can can stop with
(10:53):
the boundary of between six andseven.
And that's good.
They just know to expect a callduring then and to be
prioritizing it.
This helps because then ifyou're picking up from practice,
you're gonna get dinner, youmaybe have something going on in
the evening, you can all planaround it.
And then there's also apredictability to it for your
(11:16):
children.
So this is a really importantdistinction to make when the
calls happen, how long the callshappen.
I do have some scripts inside ofthe tech plan about what to do
when the call comes in at 7.05or when the call comes in at
545, and you were not expectingit, and it's a person that you
(11:40):
need to hold boundaries with.
Sometimes, and again, for someof you more collaborative folks,
you're gonna respond to thatwith like, okay, not a big deal
tonight.
For a lot of you, that is a bigdeal because that's pushing
boundaries, that's not followingyour parenting plan, that's this
lot of like kind of subtlepost-separation abuse that's
starting to happen or has beenhappening.
(12:02):
And so that boundary will beimportant.
Decision two, what platforms andways are we going to communicate
or let the kids communicate?
When they're little, often themost common thing I hear is
FaceTime.
FaceTime andor Google Meet.
You could do that.
I have some families that useZoom and they use Zoom because
(12:24):
it's recordable.
We'll get to that because Idon't love that.
But I have people that use alldifferent things.
If you're using something likeZoom, then you have to decide
who's paying for it, who issending the invitation, whose
responsibility is that.
The same is true for FaceTime.
Who's calling who?
(12:44):
Do you both have iPhones?
If you don't both have iPhones,are you using Google Meets?
It's helpful to just have thatset in stone ahead of time.
As kids get older, there's goingto need to be decisions around
what technology they have accessto and what they don't.
Perhaps you've agreed we have aphone.
(13:04):
They have a phone, they take itback and forth.
Our kids, you know, 14, 15 yearsold.
Notice I said much older thanyou might have initially
thought.
And that's because the researchis extremely clear.
The longer we delay cell phoneuse and smartphone use, the
better.
And the longer we delay socialmedia apps, the better.
(13:25):
I will also link this reallygreat book by Jonathan Hayt
called The Anxious Generation.
You've probably heard me talkabout it before.
I would say the first half ofthe book is just really scary
about technology and how it'simpacting kids and deteriorating
mental health and risky play andlike all these things that kids
(13:45):
really need.
And then we get some reallynice, actionable things to do.
But one of the big takeaways isdelay it as long as possible.
And even in high conflictdynamics, we really need to be
thinking as much as we can abouthow to delay, delay, delay,
delay.
And there's some safety thingsin there, which we'll talk about
at another time.
But um yeah, delaying is a goodidea and definitely delaying
(14:09):
social media use.
So if you decide to do some sortof tech, a smartwatch, a phone,
an iPad that they can text on,keeping as many social media
things off of there as possible.
YouTube, Instagram, Facebook,Snapchat, all of that stuff,
TikTok, Lord.
I mean, nothing against thoseapps.
(14:30):
And my goodness, I'm on all ofthem, as you all know.
But they're not good fordeveloping brains.
And there's a lot of research tosupport that.
And there's also a lot ofevidence to support how easily
children can just go down arabbit hole of finding things
that we may not be ready forthem to find, or they might not
be ready to find.
(14:50):
Anyways, I digress a little bit.
You may have decided we have asmartwatch that goes back and
forth.
We're pretty good about it.
They can use it to communicate.
We sort of agree on this, andthat's fine.
What we need to decide on iswhen they can have Facebook,
when can they have KidsMessenger?
When can they access YouTube?
(15:11):
Is it YouTube Kids?
Is it just YouTube?
These are things that you guyswant to work through.
That's what decision two isabout, is kind of thinking
through these very explicitlyabout what makes sense and what
doesn't.
If you've ever opened a messageon your co-parenting app from
your ex and felt your stomachdrop, you are far from alone, my
(15:32):
friend.
High conflict co-parenting playsby a completely different set of
rules.
And if you keep trying to justbe reasonable, you're going to
keep feeling blindsided.
This is exactly why I createdthe High Conflict Communication
Bootcamp for Mobs.
It's a short, self-paced,three-day training that will
teach you exactly what to say,how to respond to toxic or
(15:54):
manipulative messages, and howto keep your child out of the
middle.
You'll get scripts, strategies,and a printable workbook you can
use right away.
And it's only$19.
You can grab your spot byfollowing the link in the show
notes, or go directly tolearnwithlittlehouse.com slash
bootcamp and start today.
(16:15):
That's learnwithlittlehouse.comslash bootcamp and start today.
Protect your piece, protect yourchild, and stop letting someone
else control the energy.
Decision three, device freeanchors.
Device free anchors simply meanswhen and where are we protecting
(16:37):
our children from havingdevices?
The most common things would beschool, bedtime, and or meal
times.
Dedicated family time.
At the dinner table, we have ascreen-free rule.
You know, we want to keep phonesand technology out of children's
bedrooms.
(16:58):
There is a really startlingresearch around how just having
technology in the room is enoughto disrupt a child's sleep, even
if they're not looking at it.
They're charging it across theroom, it will still disrupt
their sleep patterns.
And we all know that most kidsaren't charging them across the
(17:18):
room, right?
They're next, they're next totheir bed.
We wanna have a rule that theyreturn to the charging station,
which is not in their bedroom.
A lot of people do around dinnertime.
Now you have to be carefulbecause if you've had your call
window set for six to seven, youcan't have dinner from six to
seven if you can't have accessto your phone.
You have to kind of think abouthow this is gonna work with your
(17:40):
family.
You see how these things buildon themselves.
No child should be expected totext back during school.
There really isn't a reason forthat.
They need to be focusing.
And definitely in the middle ofthe night, like we want them
sleeping, not on their phones.
Having some screen-free timesthat you both can agree with
(18:02):
across homes might be reallyhelpful.
Or just in your home.
You may not be able, you are notgoing to be able to say to your
co-parent, like, we're not goingto have phones at dinner time.
For many of you, that will justcreate a conflict that creates
dynamic where you're kind oftrying to control or influence
what's happening at their house.
(18:22):
And you've probably decided thatthat's not something you're
going to be doing.
I respect if you can't do that.
And then you just are in chargeof what happens at your house
and you're saying, you know,we're not doing this here.
Decision four, privacy norms.
What are we going to do aboutprivacy?
What are the rules?
Is there how do we feel aboutspeakerphone?
(18:44):
I hate being put on speakerphonewhen I don't know that I'm on
speakerphone.
And a little heads up is nice.
Hey, you're on speakerphone withme and dad.
Or you're in, you're onBluetooth in the car.
Everybody can hear you.
As well as recording.
And then a lot of times we addin no third-party coaching.
We don't have somebody standingin the sidelines, literally, or
(19:07):
through AI, that's saying, saythis to the kid.
Don't say this.
Tell him about that.
We're trying not to do that kindof stuff.
It can't, I mean, I thinkthere's kind of harmless things
around that.
Like if you're driving orsomething and the phone rings,
you might be like, hey, youshould tell your dad about that
great award you got at schooltoday.
(19:27):
That could be great, but thatcould also be seen as directing
their time together.
And so you may choose not to dothat, depending on how
conflictual things are.
We also talk with kids about howthey can respond when they feel
like their privacy is beingpushed.
They could say something like, Idon't want my tick picture
(19:48):
taken, or I don't like when yourecord me, or I don't really
want to answer that.
These are all hard things forkids to learn how to do, not
just with a parent, but also inlife.
We're working on that skill withthem.
All right, decision number five,our last one.
It's the problem protocol.
(20:10):
I need you to think ahead alittle bit about what is our
plan for when rules get broken,because of course your children
are going to break the rules.
Andor tech goes wrong.
We find out someone was bullyingsomeone, somebody's password got
lost, somebody got hacked,somebody got into a place in
(20:33):
Minecraft that we didn't evenknow they could go, and now
we've got a big old problem onour hands.
Yes, we create the plans so thatthe problems hopefully were
ahead of them.
However, we don't always knowthe problem until we have it.
I want you to not only have away and a system of how you
(20:55):
document things, thus thedigital incident log, but I also
want you to have a framework forwhich how you communicate those
problems to your co-parent.
It is important in a in thespirit of co-parenting that, you
know, you can share some ofthese things with them as
potential dangers.
Let's say your kid does haveYouTube and let's say they wind
(21:19):
up a video about I don't know,how to bully other kids.
Or, you know, a few years agowhen kids were seeing this like
horrible video pop up onchildren's content and it
referenced suicide.
And let's say that happened onyour parenting time.
You had all these things inplace, you had no idea this was
(21:40):
gonna happen.
None of us had any idea that wasgonna happen.
When it did, what is yoursystem?
What is your protocol to thenlet your co-parent know, hey,
she was on YouTube kids, thiscrazy video popped up.
Here's how I handled it, and Ialso want you to be aware of it
so so you can take precautionsat your house.
(22:00):
You want to have a system forthat.
That's what the problem protocolis.
That is also what the digitalincident log tracking is gonna
be good for because it will tellyou what did you do, then what
did you tell your co-parent, andwas there any follow-up needed?
Well, you know, in thissituation, let's say it was on a
school computer.
Well, then you need to follow upwith the school.
(22:21):
There's a lot of layers to theseproblems that can come up, and
they're very tricky andcomplicated.
I want you to have a protocol ofwhat you do.
Typically, that's going to looklike something along the lines
of document the event in thedigital incident log, send a
neutral notice through yourco-parenting app, usually within
(22:42):
a day, 24 hours, you could say,This is what happened, this is
what, this is how I handled it,offering a repair option to the
child and or to your co-parentif you need it.
So, hey, I don't really knowwhat to do about this.
Or this is what I did.
I, you know, I put X XYZparental control on.
(23:05):
Or I we had a long conversationabout what she saw and what it
meant.
And I encouraged her to also askyou questions.
You can escalate if needed.
So this would be more along thelines of something, something
like repeated calls outside ofyour agreed-upon call window.
So we're getting a lot of callsat 7:30.
(23:27):
We're getting a lot of calls at8 o'clock.
We're getting really, reallyupset when you can't answer the
phone because it's outside ofthe window.
And so we have some scripts andthings like that.
You do the same thing.
You document it, you'd send aneutral note, notice that you
called a little late tonight.
Uh, we'll return your calltomorrow between our agreed upon
(23:49):
six and seven o'clock.
And what to escalate and when ifthe pattern continues.
This might seem like a lot, andit and it can be.
And it also isn't a lot becauseas parents in today's world, we
are navigating technology allthe time, anyways.
(24:11):
And we need some guidelines.
I think this framework is a veryhelpful thing for you to think
through kind of the five bigareas around any tech decision.
It helps if you can apply thisto each scenario and use it to
make your decisions and to makerules and expectations.
(24:33):
Tech is not really something wecan fly by the seat of our pants
on, unfortunately.
Like many things in parenting,we were like, well, we'll figure
it out as we go.
Tech might be for otherfamilies, but in high conflict
co-parenting, it really isn't.
You need to have preemptivediscussions, preemptive thinking
about these things because itwill happen.
(24:54):
You want to post these fiveframeworks on your fridge.
You want to work through theworksheets, you want to have
your scripts ready to go, andyou want to have systems in
place to track what you need totrack, as well as be monitoring
your kids and what is happening.
Potential landmines that I wantyou to watch out for are bending
(25:16):
the rules just this once,letting missed calls kind of
hijack what you're alreadydoing, handing a phone to a
really dysregulated kid, knowingthat things are going to be
really rough, and still makingthem sit on the call, which is a
whole other episode, and we'lltalk about how to handle that.
But I think this is a place toget you started on managing
(25:40):
technology and making some ofthese decisions.
If you need more support, wehave it.
The co-parenting tech agreementkit is just a really good tool
for you to have.
It is on our website for$97.
Podcast listeners can use codepod 10 and get$10 off when
(26:01):
they're ready to do it, which ifyou're listening to this
episode, you probably are.
As always, I'm grateful for yourtime.
If you have any specificquestions that you'd like me to
answer, do them my way.
Thanks again, y'all.
See you soon.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of Kids First
Co-Parenting.
(26:22):
The best way you can support theshow is by following, rating,
and reviewing wherever youlisten to podcasts, and by
sharing it with another mom whocould use the support.
You can also connect with me onInstagram and Facebook at Learn
with Little House, where I sharedaily tips and encouragement for
moms raising kids through highconflict divorce.
(26:42):
And if you're ready to go deepand get more tools, scripts,
personalized support, andcoaching, come join us inside
the Kids First co-parentingcommunity.
You'll find the details atlearnwithlittlehouse.com.
Until next time, remember, yourkids don't need you to be
perfect.
They just need you to be steadyand grounded.
And as always, put them first.
(27:03):
Thanks for being here.
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