February 3, 2025 • 49 mins
Welcome to Investor Evolution, Elevate the Podcast designed for professional women seeking financial freedom and work-life harmony. In this episode, we introduce Dr. Dan Grove, a critical care physician who achieved financial independence through creative real estate investing. Dan shares his journey from traditional investing to leveraging creative financing strategies under the mentorship of Pace Morby. Discover the challenges, strategies, and motivation behind Dan's transformation from doctor to real estate investor. Gain insights into co-living strategies, the benefits of subject-to deals, and how busy professionals can diversify their investments. Dan emphasizes the importance of mindset, time management, and continuously evolving to achieve your goals. Join us for an inspiring discussion that bridges healthcare and real estate, and learn practical tips for elevating your financial and personal life. For more information on Dan's investments, visit grovefamilyinvestments.com.
00:00 Welcome to Investor Evolution
00:32 Introducing Dr. Dan Grove
01:46 Dan's Journey to Real Estate Investing
03:48 Challenges and Realizations
06:08 Discovering Creative Financing
13:43 The Co-Living Strategy
20:29 Understanding Subject-To Deals
27:41 Understanding Investor Preferences
28:30 Exploring Self-Directed IRAs
32:07 Private Money Partners vs. Private Money Lenders
37:59 Investing in Different Markets
38:57 Balancing a Busy Life and Real Estate
41:43 The Importance of Focus and Time Management
44:56 Future Goals and Continuous Growth
47:24 Conclusion and Contact Information
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Disclaimer: I am not a CPA, attorney, insurance/real estate agent, contractor, lender, or financial advisor. The content in these videos shall not be construed as tax, legal, financial advice, or other and may be outdated or inaccurate; it is your responsibility to verify all information yourself. This is a podcast for entertainment purposes ONLY.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to investor evolution,elevate the podcast, designed to
(00:04):
help busy professional womenlike you, rise higher in every
area of life.
Whether you're looking to createfinancial freedom, reclaim your
time, or find harmony whileyou're thriving in your career,
this show is for you.
Join me each week.
As we uncover strategies to growyour wealth, nurture your
personal development, andelevate your life to new
(00:25):
heights.
So you can live with purpose,joy, and confidence.
Investor Evolution (00:29):
Welcome everyone to today's episode.
I am thrilled to introduce youto our special guest today, Dr.
Dan Grove.
He is a critical care physicianwho took an unconventional path
to financial independence whilestill practicing medicine., Dan
recognized the limits oftraditional investing and boldly
(00:50):
turned to real estate,leveraging.
creative financing strategiesthat he learned under the
mentorship of Pace Morby.
His journey from doctor toinvestor is one of
determination, resilience, andvision.
Today, Dan is committed tohelping hardworking
professionals like himselfachieve better returns, greater
diversification, and trueindependence.
(01:12):
Dan, welcome to the podcast.
Dan Grove (01:15):
Okay.
Yeah, no, this is exciting.
I'm apoligizing in advance.
There's some noise.
I'm actually in the middle ofdoing the thing, which you just
described.
We're at, I'm at one of thehouses now and they're, they're
installing some door locks.
Um, so that's, that's, it mightbe a little bit of background
noise.
I apologize.
Investor Evolution (01:32):
This is perfect.
This is all good because this islife, right?
This is why we got into it.
This is what happens.
And I love being able to kind ofpeel the curtain back and see
what, what this is like.
So let's start with you as aphysician.
What led you to want to investin real estate, like what were
(01:54):
the motivations, the motivatingfactors that led you to this
point?
Dan Grove (01:59):
So what I had done was, when I was sort of in my
training, so I was in mytraining and I had a friend who
was very successful in investingin real estate and he, had
gotten me involved, right?
So what he did then was he, hehelped me get into a house.
This was in 2010.
And in 2010, if those of you whoare old enough to remember, you
(02:21):
could buy, this is, I lived inAtlanta, you could buy a house
in Atlanta for 35, 000 becauseof the financial crash and the
housing crisis and all thatthing that happened.
So he helped me by fronting themoney and getting me started.
But at the time I was finishingmy training, I had, three small
children.
I was planning on sort oftransitioning and so I I wasn't
(02:43):
prepared to deal with all thestuff, right?
The, um, you know, like theproperty management, the people
trashing the house, and stufflike that.
So I sort of panicked, right?
And I was like, dude, I'm like,sold on my left.
It still worked out well for me,but from that point, I was like,
Especially when I saw what thosehouses are worth now in Atlanta.
(03:03):
Anybody who's studied AtlantaMarket?
When I stopped looking after apoint because it was just too
depressing.
So I'm, I'm an intensive caredoctor.
So, I was part of a privatepractice, uh, that was, had a
contract.
So we were a separate practice,but we had a contract to work in
the hospital.
So the hospitals gave us acontract to be the doctors in
(03:25):
the ICU, but we did not work forthe hospital.
And so we had a pretty goodpractice.
I enjoyed it.
We were building other business,the fact that other businesses
do, we had us a billing company,a collections company, a sleep
medicine supply company.
And so I was kind of part ofthat.
I was a junior sort of on thelevel, but I was still seeing
this, the mindset of all thepeople in the group was let's
(03:46):
build something right.
And then right in the middle ofthe pandemic, when, um, for
those of you who were not ICUdoctors, it was a very
challenging time to be inmedicine.
Um, we got a letter from thehealth system that we had a
contract with saying that youhave to become our employees.
That either you work for us oryou can't be in the hospitals
(04:06):
anymore, which sort of it kindof put dropped a bomb on our
practice because even though wehad these other businesses, it
wasn't enough.
Our main source of income wasfrom our work in the I.
C.
U.
And to lose that we wouldn't beable to stay in the only option
we had.
So the only option I had was tojoin them or to move essentially
because find another job,another place to work.
(04:28):
But, um, so I really kind of.
Didn't have a choice, you know,and so I really didn't like that
feeling.
I didn't like the feeling thatYou're fine.
Everything's going along andthen bam, some, somebody makes a
decision.
Um, you know, like the, thesystem is not like, they're not
evil.
They're not bad.
They're just making a financialdecision.
That was what they felt was bestfor them.
(04:49):
But now I have to then like sortof continue.
My career wondering, well,when's, when's the next time
going to happen?
What if a new vice president ofthis or chief operating this
decides, Oh, we need to cutcosts.
So we're just going to slashsalaries.
We're going to make you workmore hours and it could happen
(05:09):
at any time.
So this like freaked me out.
Cause I need, this happened likeout of the blue, it was out of
the blue.
And it was in the middle of whenwe're all, you know, getting
killed in the ICU.
So it wasn't even.
Sort of mercy, like it was, theygave us six months.
Like they didn't even give ustime to sort of make plans.
So I started saying, okay, well,I want to build something that I
(05:31):
can have a second level ofincome that if they cut back my
hours or if they say you need todo this, so they cut my salary,
wouldn't hurt.
Right.
And then eventually, listen, I,I'm not one of those people that
wants to quit my W2.
Like I love my job.
It's an important job.
Um, I always wanted to be adoctor.
This is what I want to do.
(05:52):
I just didn't like that at anypoint, right?
It could all be taken orsomebody else was controlling
it.
And I wanted to have theflexibility to make, you know,
decisions that fit for me and myfamily.
And so that's why I startedgetting into this real estate
thing.
And I did, I think what a lot ofpeople do, which is go to bigger
pockets, go to the internet,YouTube, and, and start
(06:15):
learning.
Now I had enough experience byexperience in Atlanta, Tommy,
that you, this time you betterknow what you're doing, right?
So I was much more sort of.
learn, learn, learn, and thendo.
And so then I got into the sortof traditional investing.
And then I, I learned about theSubto mentorship about creative
finance, and that's what I'vebeen doing since.
(06:37):
And so now my goal is I'm justsort of trying to build right.
And, um, what I learned is overa period of like three years,
like I essentially got agraduate degree in this,
essentially.
So now I said, well, there's alot of people out there who are
in a similar position to me, ormaybe they have a different
need.
Maybe they just want to be sureabout the retirement.
(06:58):
Maybe you don't want to be sureabout.
I don't know, whatever theywant, like people have all kinds
of reasons for liking forneeding the freedom, but they're
not as sort of hyperactive as meand they don't want to like jump
into a hundred things all thetime.
And so they don't have the timeor the knowledge.
And so that's what I've beendoing.
I've been finding people whowant to get into this sort of
(07:18):
investment.
And I have people who arelooking to like one lady, she's
just looking to learn, right?
She wanted to learn about realestate and, but didn't know
anything.
So by connecting with me, wepartner on a house and then
she's learning along the way.
And then I have another personwho he just wants to diversify
(07:39):
his retirement.
So he didn't want it all inmutual funds and exchange funds.
He wanted a little bit insomething else.
Just to have stability and I,and he actually gets a higher
return than he does from thestock market.
And so that's sort of what I'vebeen doing now is trying to help
find people that were, we couldcreate a one plus one equals
(08:00):
much more than two kind ofexperience.
And, uh, help, you know, findthe houses and work together and
see how we can, you know, if wecan build this together.
Investor Evolution (08:09):
There's a lot to unpack in all of that
that you just said.
No, and it's interesting and whyI'm so grateful to have you on
today is because there are somany parallels.
Between your career and mycareer, where we're at and what
we're doing.
the area I've been in, I've beenhere for 20 years.
And so I've watched this.
(08:31):
Hospital complex startaccumulating and acquiring all
the different practices.
And I've seen great things comefrom it, but also, you know, the
loss of freedom for, for thephysicians.
And so I could understand howthat impacted you wanting to
(08:51):
make sure your financial future,your future is secure in your
own hands on your own terms bymeans and that someone else
can't just come and squash it.
So that resonates with a lot ofus for sure.
So when you, as you've movedinto starting to invest and I
call it Pace Morby World.
So as you came in to Pace MorbyWorld, what were some of the
(09:15):
things that, got you excited?
What were you wanting to workon?
What did you try that didn'twork out?
Like, what was your journey asyou started figuring out
different investment types?
Dan Grove (09:28):
I like Morby World would be a great amusement park,
right?
I know, right?
Go up and down, right?
You know?
Perfect.
It's like Dollywood.
So, what am I working on?
So, the thing that kind of gotme was my, my, I got two houses.
I had money saved and I had ahome equity loan.
And I got two houses in Detroitthrough the traditional kind of,
(09:49):
bigger pockets, Burr Method.
And, I got them and they werefine.
And I realized though, that Inow have to wait 12 months to
refinance or whatever the periodis.
Right?
And so if I do that, then Icould probably do like two a
year, one or two, maybe three.
(10:09):
Right.
Which is awesome.
Like there's nothing wrong withthat, but I had a couple of
problems.
One is, is that that's going totake a long time to get to sort
of a point where it's morefeasible to have that Freedom.
Two, is that I had to look inmarkets like Detroit because the
right I, you know, listen.
(10:29):
Anybody who invested in realestate in 2015 is a genius,
right?
Because you just rode this waveof record high appreciation,
record low interest rates.
So it's really, I, I, like it'sreally hard not to succeed in
that because no matter what youdid, it worked, right?
So I always tell people, it'slike the stock market is the
(10:50):
same way.
When the stock market, you look,the, the stock market, when you
find the financial advisors orfinancial planners, That did
well when everything was goingdown or when everything was
hard.
That's a good planner.
Whereas The guys who show goodreturns when everything's going
up, right?
So, but I joined it probably,when we had sort of record high
(11:12):
appreciation, but also very highinterest rates.
And so the only way to findhouses that would make money in
cash flow, you had to findhouses that were really cheap
with high rents.
You had a high price to rentratio.
Right.
And so the problem is, is thatthose usually exist in markets
that are challenging, eithertheir low income markets or
(11:32):
their markets that don'tappreciate very well.
And so there's the two issues.
One is that wasn't my favoritemarket.
These weren't my favorite kindsof houses and it would be very
slow.
So that's when I heard about theidea of creative finance, which
is where for similar investmentamounts or even less sometimes,
now you can start opening up tomore markets.
(11:54):
You can have markets that areappreciating faster and you can
have nicer houses that and thenicer house means better
appreciation, but also usuallyless headache, right?
If you find a sort of a newerhouse that doesn't need as much
is also going to be need lessrepairs and less maintenance and
stuff like that.
And so that's where I got intoit.
And then I just started, my goalwas to try to do like one of
(12:18):
everything, right?
So I wanted to, you know, Iwanted to try, because I thought
that every house or every typeof like, once you do it once,
it's clear how it works watchingvideos and, um, And just kind of
taking notes, it's important tostart, you have to get an idea,
(12:39):
but you're never going to reallylearn how to do it to the point
where you feel confident doingit again without actually doing
it, right?
That's why, like, the lady whowas, the lady who has helped,
who was, who was investing withme, this is a, you know, we gave
her, uh, she gets a monthlypayment and some equity.
Is that now she's on all theemail chains.
She saw all the documents.
(12:59):
She has now connections withproperty management and she has
Connections with transactioncoordinators so that if she
wants to do this again She hasdone it on her own but Doesn't
hasn't taken on all the headacheand the risk like I I had that
ulcer.
It's healed and now I can Youknow, move on to my next ulcer,
(13:20):
right?
Right.
Investor Evolution (13:21):
In true physician fashion, right?
You see one, you do one, youteach one.
So that is your model.
And I love that.
So you've tried a whole bunch ofdifferent Investment types or
asset classes.
What has been your favorite andwhat is your, your buy box or do
you still have multiple?
Dan Grove (13:43):
Well, so far though, the one that's been, um, my
favorite has been the, um,acquisition.
It doesn't matter to me.
Sub 2 seller.
I mean, seller finance is, is.
is easier in many, many ways.
Um, but the, the exit strategythat's been really good that I
like the most has been the coliving exit strategy.
(14:04):
Um, and so like my last, thelast three that I've done have
been co living houses and thosehave, I think, the best
potential in a high It's really,uh, uh, co living is amazing for
a number of reasons.
For the investor, it's greatbecause usually the revenue is
higher.
Um, the total revenue is higher.
Investor Evolution (14:25):
Explain, explain to our audience what co
living is and what that means.
Dan Grove (14:30):
Right, so co living is, is, um, like I'm in a house
right now that this is the onethat we're turning over and
going to be a co living.
It has six bedrooms and four ofthose bedrooms have their own
bathroom.
Okay.
So if I were to rent this houseout, to a family, right, a six
bedroom house is a big house fora family, right?
And so maybe I could get 2, 100a month for rent, which would
(14:54):
mean I would probably break evenon my, um, PITI, uh, and costs.
Um, as a co living, I can renteach room individually.
And, um, so therefore each roomthen will make 700 bucks.
And if you have six rooms, youcan do the math, right?
So the revenue is much higher.
My expenses are higher to you,right?
(15:15):
Like I have to pay for utilitiesand I have to pay for fees for
the, like I use, this house isgoing to use PadSplit.
So PadSplit takes fees and thenI have an extra, another
property manager becausePadSplit doesn't fix the toilets
and check the tenants.
They just have their, theirmatching and marketing.
And then you have to pay for theinternet and all that stuff.
So the, the expenses are higher.
(15:37):
But the net is, is higher, soit's, it's much better for me as
an investor.
It's better for tenants for alot of reasons.
One is because a lot of thesecities, the rent rates have gone
up so much that if you're asingle guy or girl, right, and
you have a regular job, right,then you have to now find an
(16:01):
apartment and then you're goingto have to then sublet and lease
out to roommates.
Right.
And commit to a one year leasein order for you to be able to
afford a house to rent evenapartment, right?
Even an apartment, which a lotof times they won't let you
sublease, right?
And so it's, it's notaffordable.
So then your only option is nowyou got to go to a really
sketchy part of town or, or, youknow, make major compromises.
(16:24):
Also, if you have, when youlease an apartment, you have to
commit to a year and what if youhave something which is
transient, if you're not sureabout what your job is going to
be, like you just moved to townor you haven't gotten, you know,
you haven't gotten settled inand you started a new job, you
don't know if it's going towork, right?
A lot of question marks.
And so it's very difficult forpeople in that situation to find
housing.
(16:44):
So, if they're able to rent bythe room, and the room is month
to month, essentially.
Where the cost is lower so theycan get a nicer house, better
neighborhood and pay less.
And the only downside is theyhave to share a house with other
people, which most people woulddefinitely make that compromise
if that was their choice.
Right.
And they do.
(17:05):
Right.
And so it's providing a hugeservice to individuals.
So like, for example, I haveanother Pat's, but There is, uh,
the, the house, the house hasits father, the house father,
Russ, right?
Russ is in his sixties.
He got divorced, right?
And um, and is in sort of inthis sort of transient sort of
(17:27):
position.
He's trying to figure out whathe's going to do next.
Um, and so he didn't want tocommit to a one year lease and
he couldn't afford or it'd betoo hard for him to afford a
full apartment by himself.
So for him, it's a huge benefit.
He gets his room and then he nowis the guy that calls and he'll
fix this and he'll tweak thatand he'll make sure everybody's
(17:47):
taken care of and you know, he'sgreat.
And then there's another lady inthe house is who's also an older
lady.
I think she's in her sixtiesalso.
And, um, she doesn't want tolive by herself.
She can afford apartment byherself, but she's nervous to
live by herself.
Right.
So for her, it's a huge kind ofcomfort that there are other
people around that if she needssomething, you know, she's not
(18:10):
alone.
Right.
And, and, and if you had tochoose living in a part of town
where it's scary, right, but nowyou can live in a part of town
that's not as scary and you, andyou have this feel like you
don't have to feel as insecure.
Right.
So it's a huge benefit for her.
And then we have some youngpeople who are, like I said,
they're sort of between leasesbetween jobs.
(18:31):
And so there's, they don't wantto commit to a full lease.
It's good for the tenants.
It's great for the city, right?
It's great for the city that I'min city of Baltimore because you
know, there's a huge housingshortage everywhere and it's an
affordable housing shortage.
So the only way to fix theaffordable housing shortage, Is
(18:53):
to increase supply.
'cause the, the reason there's ashortage is'cause there's not
enough units, there's not enoughplaces to live, right?
And most of these cities havemade it so difficult to build,
right?
Mm-hmm.
It's, so there's like, in termsof the, you know, the permits
and the, the, all the stuff youhave to go through the whatever,
the people you have to bribe toget permitted, whatever it is.
(19:14):
Right.
Then it's so difficult to buildthat the big companies that
would build an apartmentbuilding, they don't want to
deal with it.
And so they're not coming in.
And so you have this affordablehousing problem where you can't
build, what do you do?
You need to increase supplywithout having to build.
So co living solves thatproblem.
I take a house that would havebeen one family.
(19:36):
And now instead, it'll have six.
Single people.
So now that's six units that areno longer needed of whatever
studio or one bedroom apartmentsnow that it's okay.
So it'll, it'll, it'll decreasethe demand, which will lower the
cost of living for everyoneelse.
Right?
So it's like everybody wins.
Investor Evolution (19:54):
Right.
I love, I love the way youexplain it because it's, it's a
very diverse group of peoplethat you can serve.
I talked to another physicianand she was in a co living
situation when she was in medschool.
And so she loves it because ithelped her through that
situation.
So this is good for students.
This is good for divorces,single people, you know, people
(20:18):
just trying to get back on theirfeet.
Like there's so many people thatyou can serve with the strategy.
And.
Very beneficial in so many waysthat you explained.
So thank you for that.
So let's talk about creativefinance.
Creative finance can be kind ofa, an interesting subject, and
there's a lot of nuances, butexplain how that helps people
(20:41):
get into real estate, especiallyin a current market where
interest rates are high.
You know, prices are comingdown, those profit margins are
maybe not looking as good.
How does that help?
Dan Grove (20:52):
Oh, it helps in so many ways.
So let's say you're a doctor,nurse, PA, NP, whatever.
And you have saved up, I don'tknow, like 50, 000, let's say,
right?
And so what you would have to dois you'd have to go to a bank.
And then you'd have to getapproved for, uh, uh, an
(21:13):
investment mortgage, like asecond mortgage for an
investment, you would then haveto go find an agent or start
searching for the properties,um, that agent, um, and then.
And you have to then doessentially for the bank, by the
way, to get approved, you needto do the whole financial
colonoscopy, right?
(21:33):
And so you'd have to tell themlike, you have to know every
house you ever lived in in yourlife and the address and
whatever.
And then now you have to find,find the house and then you have
to deal with the whole sort ofback and forth with the, with
the seller.
And usually the houses are moreexpensive.
So now if you have 50, 000.
Then you can buy a house that'sworth, you know, cause that's 20
(21:54):
percent down, right?
So you can buy a 250, 000 house.
So you can buy a house for 250,000.
Now, if you've been doing anymarket research, a 250, 000
house will buy you You know,either you're in a rural area or
you're going to be in an urbanarea.
That's sketchy.
Right.
(22:14):
And you now, and you've sunk 50,000 in the deal.
Okay.
So, um, and then you can only dothat once, right?
Investor Evolution (22:21):
Right.
Dan Grove (22:22):
Yeah.
Okay.
So now let's say you want to buya house like the other house I
did.
Right.
So the last house I did was asubject to so the story was.
was his name, the seller, Al,um, has a fiance and apparently
the fiance wanted a certain typeof wedding, right?
(22:45):
And that certain type of weddingrequired a heavy duty expense.
Okay.
So Al being the devoted fianceneeded the money.
So what he, but he didn't wantto spend, he couldn't spend two
or three months on the marketnegotiating, hoping that he gets
the price So what he did was he,um, he actually was, was
(23:07):
contacted by a wholesaler.
It's a wholesaler, somebody whowill like sort of lock up the
deal and then sell it to someoneelse, which in this case was me,
like just the way, you know,Walmart buys the stuff in China
and then sells it to you at amarkup.
So the wholesaler buys, likegets under contract and sells it
at a markup.
So if this house, I think isprobably, I think it's worth
(23:29):
about like$350K right?
So if I wanted to buy this houseas a, as a.
As a investor, I'd have to comeup with 70, 000 as a down
payment and get a loan from abank, financial colonoscopy,
probably the financial EGD also,and then the capital, the whole
thing, they'll probably go topto bottom, And then, um, and
(23:52):
then, and then make it work.
So now, but what he did insteadwas this, is that he actually
didn't really have much equityon the house.
Because he had gotten itrelatively recently, so it was
nice.
He had gotten it, fixed it up,and had rented it out for about
a year and a half.
It didn't have enough equity.
Um, but, um, it had a littlebit.
And he would have had to payseller commissions too, right?
(24:13):
He would have had to pay 6%.
Uh, so instead, what he did ishe agrees to subject to deal.
Which means, he will give, sellme the house.
Which means the deed getstransferred, I own the house.
But it's subject to the existingmortgages.
That's why if you've ever heardof Sub 2, that's where it comes
from.
The sale is subject to theexisting mortgage, right?
(24:34):
In classic lawyer speak, theymake it confusing, right?
So then you have to pay anotherlawyer to explain it to you,
right?
Okay, so that's where Sub 2comes from, right?
Subject 2, that's why, I guessthat's how Pace Morby came up
with the name for his, um, hismentorship, Sub 2, because it's
Subject 2.
So that means that the D getstransferred, but now I'm
(24:54):
responsible for the originalmortgage.
So the mortgage stays in hisname, but I'm making a payment
every month.
It's on auto pay.
And so we gave him, I think wegave him 30, 000.
Um, and then it costs us about8, 000 to make it okay for co
living.
(25:15):
Um, and then, so I think by allinvestment was about 40, 000,
45, 000, maybe with closingcosts.
Um, so instead of paying 75,000, it was 45, 000.
It benefits him cause he, he gotactually more than he would have
gotten at sale.
After you take away commissions,it happened faster.
(25:35):
We got it done, I think in likethree weeks.
Instead of two or three monthsplus delays.
Plus you never know if the, ifthe buyer is going to back out
last minute or if their mortgageis not going to get approved,
whatever.
Um, and then we can take thathouse now and, and I'm paying
every month.
I have the deeds, my house, andthen I, um, fix it up and now
it's going to be a co living.
It's already co living.
(25:55):
It filled up in like six weeks.
Investor Evolution (25:57):
Nice.
Perfect.
Dan Grove (25:58):
Yeah.
So that's the advantage of a sub2 and there's a lot of reasons
why somebody would want to sellsub 2.
So he's an example, is he needsthe money and he, and it
actually benefits him.
He gets more out of it than hewould have otherwise.
And he gets, or he gets it donefaster.
Or some people are desperate.
Like sometimes people are behindon their payments and they're
going to get foreclosed on.
Um, I saved one family fromforeclosure with a sub two.
(26:20):
And so it's a lot of reasons whysomebody would do it.
It happens all the time forpeople in our profession who
usually have never had a hardtime getting a mortgage.
It's like, seems like this crazything, but people doing it since
the, since the beginning ofbuying houses, I guess, I don't
know.
So I'm like, whatever.
Tuck Tuck sold his cave to NuckNuck and he probably used seller
(26:40):
finance.
I don't know what they did,right?
You know, but it's been going onforever.
I love it.
Investor Evolution (26:44):
I love it.
Awesome.
And I love, I love thateverything that you're doing.
You can see this through,through line of how you're
helping others, right?
You're helping others with theco living, you're helping that
seller get what he needed so hecould have that beautiful
wedding for that new bride, youknow, you're, you're helping
(27:06):
because I assume they're comingalong with you.
You know, you may be bringingmoney to the table, but you may
be partnering with an investorto come in.
So let's talk about that.
Like what are the types ofinvestors that you're looking
for?
What is your, or who is yourideal investor avatar to come
along with you on this journey?
Dan Grove (27:27):
So, yeah, so it's a, it depends.
There's not an ideal bet.
The only thing is That somebodyobviously has to have the
capital, but, um, the nice thingabout the way these things can
be done is we can be creativeabout that also.
So it depends on what theindividual wants, right?
Some people are like, just takemy money.
(27:48):
Give me my monthly check.
I don't care.
Fine.
You can work out something forthat too.
Some people are, I want to be100 percent involved.
I want equity in the house andwe could structure it that way
also.
Some people.
Can be in between or some peoplewant more information.
Some people want less, right?
Like some people want to beconstantly updated.
Fine.
Some people just, like I said,just as long as the check goes,
they don't, they just see thecheck deposited and everything's
(28:09):
fine.
Right.
Right.
And so it really depends on,but, but I think the ideal, like
the type of investor I think ofis like me, right?
I think of me five years ago,right?
Where it's like, I'm, I'minvesting, like I have money
saving for retirement.
I, I don't, I don't liveextravagantly.
So I always save, I always.
(28:30):
Spend less than I make so I wassaving for other things and then
so maybe somebody wants to takeThey're that extra savings and
do something other than exchangefund some people I actually have
somebody who invested with aself directed IRA, which is
really cool, right?
You can actually take your ownretirement money.
You can't do this with like a401 K or 43 B, but you can make
(28:52):
an IRA.
And then what you do is you thencan direct that IRA into any
investment you want.
You could buy baseball cards ifyou want it, like, just has to
be that you, um, yeah.
That you set it up correctly.
So I actually did this, right?
I had an IRA that didn't havethat much money, but I wanted to
see what it was all about.
Like, I'm a, again, tryeverything, right?
(29:13):
And so I had this money and whatI did is I found those companies
that act as a custodian, right?
Because the key is you have tomake sure that it's everything's
kosher with the IRS.
Right, that you're notbenefiting from this money.
Okay, you can't like take thismoney and, you know, use it to
buy yourself something becausethen you'll get penalized.
(29:34):
So there's the custodians andwhat they do is they will take
that money and they willtransfer it into their account
that they set up.
Right.
And then you just have to fillout a form, give them the wiring
instructions, and you can theninvest in a house with me.
You can invest in a multifamilydeal as a, as a, whatever, as a
syndicate, like I said, you canbuy baseball cards or I don't
(29:56):
know, like whatever people areinvesting in these days.
Like you ever you want, you canbuy, yeah, Bitcoin, you can buy
just gold.
I don't know.
Um, people were into BeanieBabies when I was a kid.
That was a thing in the 90s.
That was a big deal, right?
I don't know.
I don't think
Investor Evolution (30:08):
that would be a good investment these
Dan Grove (30:10):
days.
Nah, I wouldn't rec Like, by theway, it doesn't have to be a
good investment.
It just has to not be somethingthat you directly Like, for
example, if you invest in anAirbnb, you can't Go there for
free.
Investor Evolution (30:20):
Right.
Dan Grove (30:21):
Right.
You have to be careful thatstuff like that.
But as long as it's and usuallythe companies that you do this
with, they, they know all therules and they make sure and by
and by them being involved,you're good.
You don't have to worry aboutthe IRS.
And it's it's a pretty coolthing to do if you have that
extra money, uh, set asidebecause Um, like you can't do
it.
Most people can't do anythingwith it anyways.
(30:42):
In a while.
The amount of money that you canmake, um, in these real estate
investments is much higher thanyou would make in just a mutual
fund.
And so, and then it's nice againto be diversified, right?
If you have your 401k and stocksand bonds.
It's good to have something elseso that if you get close to
retirement the stock marketcrashes you have another Kind of
(31:02):
thing to buff it.
Um buffer that if um, if there'sa problem.
Yeah, send it back to whatyou're saying.
I like it I can talk about it.
No, it's all good.
What's the idea of that?
So somebody who has that kind ofincome, right, that wants to put
it in something, like I don't, Idon't think it's good.
I'm not looking for people whoare looking to quit their jobs
(31:23):
and then just be real estatemoguls and I'm not looking for
people who this is money theyneed to live on.
I don't think that's a goodidea.
Like that doesn't make me feelgood, but it's like somebody who
has extra money in savings andthey want to put it in something
to diversify, to get more, toget more, um, more returns.
Uh, or for, you know, forwhatever goals they have.
Investor Evolution (31:41):
Well, and I mean this, this is an
investment.
There are risks involved.
Just as if you invest in thestock market, it's possible to
lose money.
That can happen in real estatealso.
So this is not something to beentered into lightly or just
because we said, hey, you shoulddo this.
Don't do that.
You do your own
Dan Grove (31:59):
YouTube video.
The guy was flying a privatejet.
It's got to be right.
That's what it said on theYouTube video.
He's flying a private jet.
You said you can't lose,
Investor Evolution (32:05):
right?
Right.
Yeah, don't do that.
So let's talk about becausewe've kind of danced around it a
little bit.
The difference between a privatemoney partner or a PMP and a
private money lender or a PML.
Um, what are the differences?
I assume you work with both andtell us those nuances.
Dan Grove (32:24):
Yeah, so a private money lender is like a bank,
right?
It means that they give youmoney, usually, like, the thing
that we've done is like, theyneed the money, that's the money
for the, uh, the repairs and theinitial payment to the seller
and the closing costs, all themoney you need to get going.
And then every month, you paythem whatever the rate and the
term is.
So they get a monthly checkevery month, sort of no matter
(32:45):
what.
Right.
So like I, if I have a PML, Igot to figure out how to pay
them out of my own pocket if Ihave to, if, um, right.
And that usually PML is, is, issecured against the house.
So they have, they have, um,they have a lien on the house in
case something terrible happens.
Um, and that's a private moneylender.
They don't usually have a lotof, they don't have any really
(33:07):
say about what happens with theinvestment.
They're not going to tell mewhat, where to put a room here
and what to do with this and howto, what access strategy.
They're just saying.
They will do vetting, theyshould do vetting to make sure
that, you know, it's a good dealand they have to check with me,
check me out, um, but they won'tdo anything like that and they
get their monthly payment,usually at a set interest rate.
(33:30):
A private money partner is apartner, right?
So they usually will get, sothere's a lot, you know, again,
there's a million ways to dothis.
They could get, some people willget an interest rate that's
lower.
So they'll get a lower interestrate.
So a lower monthly payment, butthey'll get equity in the house.
They'll get a stake in the houseso that they're getting less per
(33:51):
month in the cash, but theequity of the house is building.
So that when the house sells orwhen the, whenever in the future
they get, you know, whatever thehouse increases by 200, 000,
they'll get 10, 15, 20 percentof that 200, 000.
And so, and then some peoplewill do a pure 50, 50 equity
deal, which is.
We both own the house, right?
And so, um, we, you know, we,we're in this together.
(34:14):
It's a, it's a marriage and it'sactually, you think that it's
like more commitment than amarriage, but I guess most
marriages last about sevenyears.
So it's about a marriage.
It's, it's, it's your typicalmarriage,
Audio Only - All Partici (34:24):
right?
Dan Grove (34:25):
Right.
So, um, yeah.
And so, and those ones usuallyin the equity deals, the private
money partners, then it's like,for me, when I have a private
money partner, it's like.
She's mostly deferring to me,but we're in this together.
Like we're deciding, like wemade, okay, this is the plans.
What do you think of this?
Do you agree?
We have this problem.
We need to raise this money.
You know, like we're working onthis together.
(34:48):
Both people need to meet, peopleneed to be approved and, and,
and I can't pay off like a PML.
I can pay off the balance.
And then they're gone a PMP, Ihave to pay off the equity.
So I have to, you know, I haveto buy them out or we have to
sell and they have to get paidoff.
It's, it's more because it'slike more of a sort of a
(35:09):
partnership.
Right.
And the advantage.
So the advantage of each PMLusually gets.
There's a couple of advantagesof, and disadvantages.
The PML has the advantage ofthey're more likely to get paid
if things go bad.
They usually get a higher sortof amount of money every month.
They get their money everymonth.
The outside, um, is that theyhave, they don't get the real,
(35:30):
the real wealth in real estateis with time and equity, right?
It's like, I looked at it, likeif you look at the cash flow,
it's usually.
PML, we had 10%, 12%, 8%,whatever it is like that they
agree on.
Um, and, but, uh, but an equitydeal like that equity increases
(35:50):
over a 10 year period, a lot,you know, it could increase a
lot when you add in, you know,the house could be double in
value and it could be a hundredthousands of dollars and it ends
up being, you know, five, 600percent on the, on the initial
investment.
So there's the advantage, theadvantage of PML is it's more
sort of.
(36:10):
Passive like you don't have todo anything.
Uh, the advantage of the PMP isyou get the equity, um, which is
usually if you're patient,right, um, patience is
important, right?
Patience is important.
So, uh, the equity builds withtime.
You get much more money in the,in the backend.
So like for people with selfdirected IRAs, this is perfect
(36:30):
because you don't need the moneyanyways.
Like, so just.
Just let it sit.
You're happy.
You know, all the money that youget from the cashflow anyways is
going to get put back in youraccount, right?
So you can just, it's better.
Like you almost want onlyequity, just let it build.
And like, you don't need themoney.
Um, and so that's an advantage.
You usually make more in thelong run and you can also, the
(36:54):
gains, the money that you make,uh, you can, um, offset by
depreciation because you havesome equity.
So there's tax benefits.
Um to it that you can that youcan get if you don't have it in
the like the ira Right if youjust did it straight with your
money um the The amount of themoney that you get there's ways
for you to offset the taxes
Investor Evolution (37:15):
like
Dan Grove (37:16):
lots of ways
Investor Evolution (37:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it depends on like yoursource of capital, as you said,
right?
If your source of capital iscoming from a HELOC, you are not
lending that for seven years orthat you will not make money.
Right?
But if you're lending it fromyour IRA, beautiful.
And then you don't have to moveit, right?
You make money when you movemoney.
And if you're not having to moveit through different sources,
(37:38):
And it's still accumulating.
It's working for you.
It's a beautiful, it's abeautiful situation.
And I know a lot of PMLs who doboth, right?
They have their short termcapital that they're deploying,
and then they have their longterm capital, and they have
different strategies based onthe different amount of money,
or different sources of capital.
Dan Grove (37:59):
Right.
Investor Evolution (37:59):
Um, where, where are you investing?
Are there certain markets thatyou're investing in?
Are you kind of over thecountry?
Are you in certain areas?
Dan Grove (38:10):
When I started out, I didn't pick a market.
That's another nice thing aboutcareer finance.
You can be more flexible.
And so what I've done is I'vetried to find different markets
and get houses.
And then, and then in the, inthe market, you develop, I
develop relationships.
And so the relationships.
Then you have a good propertymanager in that market.
Now that's the market.
So like I feel confident inDetroit and I feel confident in
(38:30):
Baltimore and I feel confidentin Denver where I have houses.
And so, and so that's kind ofthe way I do it.
Once you have had a house andyou feel like you know the team,
then that's where I'll go.
But I feel pretty comfortablesetting up those teams.
Because I've done it in theseother places and kind of know,
um, having learned a lot thehard way how to, um, how to like
(38:53):
the questions to ask and what tolook for and stuff like
Investor Evolution (38:57):
that.
Let's, let's switch a little bitfrom, uh, the real estate side
of things to more of our mindsetside of things.
You're a busy guy.
Yeah.
I mean, you have a full timejob.
You have a family, you've gotthree kiddos, like, how have you
pushed this into your life?
And how are you managing that?
(39:18):
How are you using timemanagement skills to allow
yourself the time and hopefullyfreedom?
Hopefully you're gaining that toget all this stuff done.
Dan Grove (39:29):
Right.
Yeah.
So for me, I, I.
It's not, it's a little biteasier for me because I hate
having nothing to do, right?
I like being busy.
I love being busy.
For me, those, those, like, thevacations on the beach, I could
do that for maybe two hourslying on the beach.
Okay.
And then it's like, I want to gofor it, like, go run or do
(39:50):
stuff, like, let's go walk Rex.
I, I, I don't sit still verywell.
And so being busy is good forme.
I like having things to do.
But I think that it's importantto, I try to choose what to do
and to focus.
And so, um, I think if probablymost people did a little like
journal every day and they kindof just tracked all the things
(40:10):
they do and for how many minutesover the whole course of one
day, I think you'd probablyrealize that there's a lot of
time in the day where you couldfind.
So I get, I don't have, like, Idon't scroll on things.
I don't scroll on social media.
Um, I don't have a television.
Because, um, I don't want to getsucked into that, um, like I
guess you could watch stuff onthe, on the phone every once in
a while, um, I, uh, so cuttingthose things out probably for
(40:34):
most people would give them twoor three hours a day,
Investor Evolution (40:36):
if not more, if not more,
Dan Grove (40:39):
I don't, I, I, I'm not a foodie, right?
So I don't spend a lot of timecooking, right?
I'll eat a bowl of cereal andthat's how I'm fine with that.
Right.
And so I think just that, like,and then, and then what I do
during the day is, is so for,so, you know, if I'm working in
the hospital.
And, um, and, and there's a slowperiod, that's 15 minutes that I
(40:59):
can do something, right?
Um, whatever it is, you know,there's a lot of things that you
can do, right?
And so, um, if, if, if you havea day off, like, I'd rather just
do stuff and, you know, sleep,get a little less sleep is fine.
You know, I'm not gonna, I don'tsleep 11 hours on the weekend
and, right?
And so, and then, and then.
(41:20):
Multitasking, meaning if I cantalk on the phone when I'm
driving home from work, well,that's 20 minutes, um, where,
you know, I can, I can, youknow, make, make a difference
that way.
And so, so that's kind of theway I find, I find those things.
Investor Evolution (41:37):
So little pockets of time that you're
taking.
Dan Grove (41:40):
Exactly, exactly.
Investor Evolution (41:41):
Awesome.
I love it.
And have you found that withyour days of working versus your
days off and investing thatyou're better able to get in the
flow because you're like, okay,this is the time I'm, I'm, this
is what I'm doing and you canget into it a little bit better
(42:02):
and then vice versa when you'reat work, you know, that's,
that's flow that you got to do.
Or do you feel like multitaskingboth sides?
Yes.
Dan Grove (42:10):
No, I don't.
I take that back.
When I say multitasking, it'slike I'm driving.
I don't believe though.
I don't believe in multitasking,actual multitasking.
Okay.
Like I think it's, I think it'smuch better that I should take
whatever, um, you know, a halfhour
Investor Evolution (42:27):
and
Dan Grove (42:28):
do something like straight and take an hour and do
two things, which I probablywouldn't do as well either way.
I think it's pretty, that'spretty clear.
I think that that's noteffective.
So I, I do try, like, I thinkit's important and I, like, I
know my, I also do sleepmedicine.
So I know my circadian cyclevery well.
(42:49):
And I, if I can have betweenlike 9am and noon, right, I
could get a ton done if I don'thave distractions.
Right.
If I go to the Starbucks andjust like hunker down, right.
And so, um, yeah, so, so I thinkthat that's.
That's kind of what I do.
So focusing when you're focused,so doing a lot of things, but
(43:13):
only, but never doing more thanone thing at a time.
Investor Evolution (43:17):
Good.
When
Dan Grove (43:18):
you can.
Do some things at the same, youknow what I mean?
Investor Evolution (43:22):
Sure, sure.
And I agree with you, like,driving, I'm, I'm listening to
something.
I am always listening to apodcast or a book or, or
something.
Uh, when, do you, do you findthat, especially now, like,
you're in the flow, you'velearned a ton of stuff, you've
accumulated all that knowledge,you're putting it into practice.
(43:42):
Do you find now that you'reworking?
Less but getting more donebecause you found that
efficiency.
Dan Grove (43:50):
I think I'm working the same and getting more done
not because but that's notbecause That's because I like
it.
It's not because I'm, you know,I have to, you know what I mean?
Because I like it, so like, Idon't mind doing this stuff,
right?
I'd rather have something to do.
I don't think I'll ever retire.
(44:11):
It doesn't sound like it.
Yeah, yeah, I don't like people,that sounds pleasing, like
appealing to people.
So like, what do you do?
Like, you just stop working andthen what do you do?
You move to Florida and wait todie.
That's what I understand aboutit.
About retirement, right?
Yeah.
Let's just find a differentcareer, or a different thing, or
(44:31):
a different whatever, you knowwhat I mean?
Maybe I will, you know, maybeyou do it less hours in the day,
right?
You know?
And you do it if you want to,and you take days off to see the
grandkids when you want to, butyou're always doing something,
you know?
Investor Evolution (44:44):
We had a little battery die, so we're on
the phone.
We're gonna finish it out.
No worries.
I was telling Dan, it actuallygave me a chance to reformulate
this question in a little bitbetter way, and tell you a
little bit more what I wasthinking.
So, I just started listening toa A book called 10x is easier
than 2x by Dan Sullivan andBenjamin Hardy.
(45:05):
And, you know, the premise isthat what got you here won't get
you there.
And you have to change yourthinking.
And one of the things they talkabout is as you 10x, Your, your
vision, your goals andeverything, you'll gain time
back in order to pursuedifferent goals and pursue
different passions, maybedifferent purposes.
(45:25):
And so I wonder if you feel likethat will continue in medicine,
you know, and obviously, youknow, we don't have a crystal
ball, who knows what the futuremay hold.
But where do you feel like?
That could lead you with beingable to pursue a passion that's
maybe more than what you'redoing now or in addition to.
Dan Grove (45:44):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that, that what I love is that I
can just come up with some crazyidea and then go try to do it.
Like I got into research at thehospital just recently, right?
And so, you know, be able tojust, just do stuff like that.
I have a list of things that Iwould want to do that if I had
sort of more money I could do.
(46:06):
So that's probably what it wouldbe.
It would be.
Just get this running, right?
And then transition to, youknow, something else, you know
what I mean?
And then just get from there.
Yeah,
Investor Evolution (46:18):
right.
And I think there's always ournext level We all we all have
that next level that we'relooking to achieve.
We never stop growing Weshouldn't ever stop growing and
I agree with you.
I feel like some people just Idon't want to, I don't want to
do that either.
So I, I'm looking
Dan Grove (46:38):
forward to it.
They're also just lookingforward to the end.
Like they don't, they don't livefor like what they're doing now.
That's just right.
Oh, everything will be great.
Once I retire, once I do X, Y,and Z.
And I think that that's, that'sa recipe for disaster because.
And when you get there, if it'snot what you wanted, what you
thought it was going to be,because most of the thing that
we most of the things that weanticipate in the future are not
(47:01):
what we thought they're going tobe either both for good and for
bad.
They're usually never as greatas we think they're going to be
and they're never as bad as wethink they're going to be.
Investor Evolution (47:07):
So, I mean, I think that's a huge point,
right?
You know, when I get there, thenI will.
No, if you're not doing it now,you probably won't do it then.
So the things you want to bedoing now, put them into place
now, so you can enjoy them asyou're going.
I totally agree with that 100%.
Dan, this has been amazing.
I I'm just so grateful for youfor your perspective.
(47:31):
Tell us where we can find youfor those who are like, I like
this guy.
I want to learn more.
How do I invest with him?
Where can we find you?
Dan Grove (47:39):
So I have a website called grovefamilyinvestments.
com and on that site I have, um,I have like just some blog
posts, like explaining some ofthese things like creative, why
creative finance and stuff likethat.
And then, um, and it has thelinks to all the social medias.
Investor Evolution (47:56):
Beautiful.
Dan Grove (47:56):
I post things on YouTube and I post things on
Instagram and stuff like that.
I had to learn all this stuffwhen I got into real estate.
I'm a pre internet child, right?
Investor Evolution (48:07):
All good.
Same.
The best thing
Dan Grove (48:08):
about being my age is that you did all your
embarrassing things before theinternet.
So there's My, those picturesare not on a Chinese server
farm,
Investor Evolution (48:16):
so they will
Dan Grove (48:16):
never be found.
That's
Investor Evolution (48:17):
right.
That's right.
All right.
So everyone go find him at GroveFamily Investments.
You can check him out.
You can, he's got a lot ofinformation on that site.
You can see some of hisprojects.
You can link to his socials.
Dan, thank you so much.
And we will have you backbecause this was great.
And maybe we'll talk a littlemore mindset because I think we
can go deep, deep on that.
(48:38):
Yeah.
Dan Grove (48:38):
Especially when I have like the background set up
and I can be in my actual house.
In my office where you know,it's a little less like you
said, but this is multi tasking,right?
Investor Evolution (48:46):
I
Dan Grove (48:48):
have nothing to do.
I'm not going to waste thistime.
Let's get let's get stuff done.
Investor Evolution (48:53):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Dan, thank you so much for yourtime today.
I appreciate you and everyonetill next time.
Have a good one.
Dan Grove (49:00):
All right.
Take care.
Welcome to investor evolution,elevate the podcast, designed to
(00:04):
help busy professional womenlike you, rise higher in every
area of life.
Whether you're looking to createfinancial freedom, reclaim your
time, or find harmony whileyou're thriving in your career,
this show is for you.
Join me each week.
As we uncover strategies to growyour wealth, nurture your
personal development, andelevate your life to new
(00:25):
heights.
So you can live with purpose,joy, and confidence.
Investor Evolution (00:29):
Welcome everyone to today's episode.
I am thrilled to introduce youto our special guest today, Dr.
Dan Grove.
He is a critical care physicianwho took an unconventional path
to financial independence whilestill practicing medicine., Dan
recognized the limits oftraditional investing and boldly
(00:50):
turned to real estate,leveraging.
creative financing strategiesthat he learned under the
mentorship of Pace Morby.
His journey from doctor toinvestor is one of
determination, resilience, andvision.
Today, Dan is committed tohelping hardworking
professionals like himselfachieve better returns, greater
diversification, and trueindependence.
(01:12):
Dan, welcome to the podcast.
Dan Grove (01:15):
Okay.
Yeah, no, this is exciting.
I'm apoligizing in advance.
There's some noise.
I'm actually in the middle ofdoing the thing, which you just
described.
We're at, I'm at one of thehouses now and they're, they're
installing some door locks.
Um, so that's, that's, it mightbe a little bit of background
noise.
I apologize.
Investor Evolution (01:32):
This is perfect.
This is all good because this islife, right?
This is why we got into it.
This is what happens.
And I love being able to kind ofpeel the curtain back and see
what, what this is like.
So let's start with you as aphysician.
What led you to want to investin real estate, like what were
(01:54):
the motivations, the motivatingfactors that led you to this
point?
Dan Grove (01:59):
So what I had done was, when I was sort of in my
training, so I was in mytraining and I had a friend who
was very successful in investingin real estate and he, had
gotten me involved, right?
So what he did then was he, hehelped me get into a house.
This was in 2010.
And in 2010, if those of you whoare old enough to remember, you
(02:21):
could buy, this is, I lived inAtlanta, you could buy a house
in Atlanta for 35, 000 becauseof the financial crash and the
housing crisis and all thatthing that happened.
So he helped me by fronting themoney and getting me started.
But at the time I was finishingmy training, I had, three small
children.
I was planning on sort oftransitioning and so I I wasn't
(02:43):
prepared to deal with all thestuff, right?
The, um, you know, like theproperty management, the people
trashing the house, and stufflike that.
So I sort of panicked, right?
And I was like, dude, I'm like,sold on my left.
It still worked out well for me,but from that point, I was like,
Especially when I saw what thosehouses are worth now in Atlanta.
(03:03):
Anybody who's studied AtlantaMarket?
When I stopped looking after apoint because it was just too
depressing.
So I'm, I'm an intensive caredoctor.
So, I was part of a privatepractice, uh, that was, had a
contract.
So we were a separate practice,but we had a contract to work in
the hospital.
So the hospitals gave us acontract to be the doctors in
(03:25):
the ICU, but we did not work forthe hospital.
And so we had a pretty goodpractice.
I enjoyed it.
We were building other business,the fact that other businesses
do, we had us a billing company,a collections company, a sleep
medicine supply company.
And so I was kind of part ofthat.
I was a junior sort of on thelevel, but I was still seeing
this, the mindset of all thepeople in the group was let's
(03:46):
build something right.
And then right in the middle ofthe pandemic, when, um, for
those of you who were not ICUdoctors, it was a very
challenging time to be inmedicine.
Um, we got a letter from thehealth system that we had a
contract with saying that youhave to become our employees.
That either you work for us oryou can't be in the hospitals
(04:06):
anymore, which sort of it kindof put dropped a bomb on our
practice because even though wehad these other businesses, it
wasn't enough.
Our main source of income wasfrom our work in the I.
C.
U.
And to lose that we wouldn't beable to stay in the only option
we had.
So the only option I had was tojoin them or to move essentially
because find another job,another place to work.
(04:28):
But, um, so I really kind of.
Didn't have a choice, you know,and so I really didn't like that
feeling.
I didn't like the feeling thatYou're fine.
Everything's going along andthen bam, some, somebody makes a
decision.
Um, you know, like the, thesystem is not like, they're not
evil.
They're not bad.
They're just making a financialdecision.
That was what they felt was bestfor them.
(04:49):
But now I have to then like sortof continue.
My career wondering, well,when's, when's the next time
going to happen?
What if a new vice president ofthis or chief operating this
decides, Oh, we need to cutcosts.
So we're just going to slashsalaries.
We're going to make you workmore hours and it could happen
(05:09):
at any time.
So this like freaked me out.
Cause I need, this happened likeout of the blue, it was out of
the blue.
And it was in the middle of whenwe're all, you know, getting
killed in the ICU.
So it wasn't even.
Sort of mercy, like it was, theygave us six months.
Like they didn't even give ustime to sort of make plans.
So I started saying, okay, well,I want to build something that I
(05:31):
can have a second level ofincome that if they cut back my
hours or if they say you need todo this, so they cut my salary,
wouldn't hurt.
Right.
And then eventually, listen, I,I'm not one of those people that
wants to quit my W2.
Like I love my job.
It's an important job.
Um, I always wanted to be adoctor.
This is what I want to do.
(05:52):
I just didn't like that at anypoint, right?
It could all be taken orsomebody else was controlling
it.
And I wanted to have theflexibility to make, you know,
decisions that fit for me and myfamily.
And so that's why I startedgetting into this real estate
thing.
And I did, I think what a lot ofpeople do, which is go to bigger
pockets, go to the internet,YouTube, and, and start
(06:15):
learning.
Now I had enough experience byexperience in Atlanta, Tommy,
that you, this time you betterknow what you're doing, right?
So I was much more sort of.
learn, learn, learn, and thendo.
And so then I got into the sortof traditional investing.
And then I, I learned about theSubto mentorship about creative
finance, and that's what I'vebeen doing since.
(06:37):
And so now my goal is I'm justsort of trying to build right.
And, um, what I learned is overa period of like three years,
like I essentially got agraduate degree in this,
essentially.
So now I said, well, there's alot of people out there who are
in a similar position to me, ormaybe they have a different
need.
Maybe they just want to be sureabout the retirement.
(06:58):
Maybe you don't want to be sureabout.
I don't know, whatever theywant, like people have all kinds
of reasons for liking forneeding the freedom, but they're
not as sort of hyperactive as meand they don't want to like jump
into a hundred things all thetime.
And so they don't have the timeor the knowledge.
And so that's what I've beendoing.
I've been finding people whowant to get into this sort of
(07:18):
investment.
And I have people who arelooking to like one lady, she's
just looking to learn, right?
She wanted to learn about realestate and, but didn't know
anything.
So by connecting with me, wepartner on a house and then
she's learning along the way.
And then I have another personwho he just wants to diversify
(07:39):
his retirement.
So he didn't want it all inmutual funds and exchange funds.
He wanted a little bit insomething else.
Just to have stability and I,and he actually gets a higher
return than he does from thestock market.
And so that's sort of what I'vebeen doing now is trying to help
find people that were, we couldcreate a one plus one equals
(08:00):
much more than two kind ofexperience.
And, uh, help, you know, findthe houses and work together and
see how we can, you know, if wecan build this together.
Investor Evolution (08:09):
There's a lot to unpack in all of that
that you just said.
No, and it's interesting and whyI'm so grateful to have you on
today is because there are somany parallels.
Between your career and mycareer, where we're at and what
we're doing.
the area I've been in, I've beenhere for 20 years.
And so I've watched this.
(08:31):
Hospital complex startaccumulating and acquiring all
the different practices.
And I've seen great things comefrom it, but also, you know, the
loss of freedom for, for thephysicians.
And so I could understand howthat impacted you wanting to
(08:51):
make sure your financial future,your future is secure in your
own hands on your own terms bymeans and that someone else
can't just come and squash it.
So that resonates with a lot ofus for sure.
So when you, as you've movedinto starting to invest and I
call it Pace Morby World.
So as you came in to Pace MorbyWorld, what were some of the
(09:15):
things that, got you excited?
What were you wanting to workon?
What did you try that didn'twork out?
Like, what was your journey asyou started figuring out
different investment types?
Dan Grove (09:28):
I like Morby World would be a great amusement park,
right?
I know, right?
Go up and down, right?
You know?
Perfect.
It's like Dollywood.
So, what am I working on?
So, the thing that kind of gotme was my, my, I got two houses.
I had money saved and I had ahome equity loan.
And I got two houses in Detroitthrough the traditional kind of,
(09:49):
bigger pockets, Burr Method.
And, I got them and they werefine.
And I realized though, that Inow have to wait 12 months to
refinance or whatever the periodis.
Right?
And so if I do that, then Icould probably do like two a
year, one or two, maybe three.
(10:09):
Right.
Which is awesome.
Like there's nothing wrong withthat, but I had a couple of
problems.
One is, is that that's going totake a long time to get to sort
of a point where it's morefeasible to have that Freedom.
Two, is that I had to look inmarkets like Detroit because the
right I, you know, listen.
(10:29):
Anybody who invested in realestate in 2015 is a genius,
right?
Because you just rode this waveof record high appreciation,
record low interest rates.
So it's really, I, I, like it'sreally hard not to succeed in
that because no matter what youdid, it worked, right?
So I always tell people, it'slike the stock market is the
(10:50):
same way.
When the stock market, you look,the, the stock market, when you
find the financial advisors orfinancial planners, That did
well when everything was goingdown or when everything was
hard.
That's a good planner.
Whereas The guys who show goodreturns when everything's going
up, right?
So, but I joined it probably,when we had sort of record high
(11:12):
appreciation, but also very highinterest rates.
And so the only way to findhouses that would make money in
cash flow, you had to findhouses that were really cheap
with high rents.
You had a high price to rentratio.
Right.
And so the problem is, is thatthose usually exist in markets
that are challenging, eithertheir low income markets or
(11:32):
their markets that don'tappreciate very well.
And so there's the two issues.
One is that wasn't my favoritemarket.
These weren't my favorite kindsof houses and it would be very
slow.
So that's when I heard about theidea of creative finance, which
is where for similar investmentamounts or even less sometimes,
now you can start opening up tomore markets.
(11:54):
You can have markets that areappreciating faster and you can
have nicer houses that and thenicer house means better
appreciation, but also usuallyless headache, right?
If you find a sort of a newerhouse that doesn't need as much
is also going to be need lessrepairs and less maintenance and
stuff like that.
And so that's where I got intoit.
And then I just started, my goalwas to try to do like one of
(12:18):
everything, right?
So I wanted to, you know, Iwanted to try, because I thought
that every house or every typeof like, once you do it once,
it's clear how it works watchingvideos and, um, And just kind of
taking notes, it's important tostart, you have to get an idea,
(12:39):
but you're never going to reallylearn how to do it to the point
where you feel confident doingit again without actually doing
it, right?
That's why, like, the lady whowas, the lady who has helped,
who was, who was investing withme, this is a, you know, we gave
her, uh, she gets a monthlypayment and some equity.
Is that now she's on all theemail chains.
She saw all the documents.
(12:59):
She has now connections withproperty management and she has
Connections with transactioncoordinators so that if she
wants to do this again She hasdone it on her own but Doesn't
hasn't taken on all the headacheand the risk like I I had that
ulcer.
It's healed and now I can Youknow, move on to my next ulcer,
(13:20):
right?
Right.
Investor Evolution (13:21):
In true physician fashion, right?
You see one, you do one, youteach one.
So that is your model.
And I love that.
So you've tried a whole bunch ofdifferent Investment types or
asset classes.
What has been your favorite andwhat is your, your buy box or do
you still have multiple?
Dan Grove (13:43):
Well, so far though, the one that's been, um, my
favorite has been the, um,acquisition.
It doesn't matter to me.
Sub 2 seller.
I mean, seller finance is, is.
is easier in many, many ways.
Um, but the, the exit strategythat's been really good that I
like the most has been the coliving exit strategy.
(14:04):
Um, and so like my last, thelast three that I've done have
been co living houses and thosehave, I think, the best
potential in a high It's really,uh, uh, co living is amazing for
a number of reasons.
For the investor, it's greatbecause usually the revenue is
higher.
Um, the total revenue is higher.
Investor Evolution (14:25):
Explain, explain to our audience what co
living is and what that means.
Dan Grove (14:30):
Right, so co living is, is, um, like I'm in a house
right now that this is the onethat we're turning over and
going to be a co living.
It has six bedrooms and four ofthose bedrooms have their own
bathroom.
Okay.
So if I were to rent this houseout, to a family, right, a six
bedroom house is a big house fora family, right?
And so maybe I could get 2, 100a month for rent, which would
(14:54):
mean I would probably break evenon my, um, PITI, uh, and costs.
Um, as a co living, I can renteach room individually.
And, um, so therefore each roomthen will make 700 bucks.
And if you have six rooms, youcan do the math, right?
So the revenue is much higher.
My expenses are higher to you,right?
(15:15):
Like I have to pay for utilitiesand I have to pay for fees for
the, like I use, this house isgoing to use PadSplit.
So PadSplit takes fees and thenI have an extra, another
property manager becausePadSplit doesn't fix the toilets
and check the tenants.
They just have their, theirmatching and marketing.
And then you have to pay for theinternet and all that stuff.
So the, the expenses are higher.
(15:37):
But the net is, is higher, soit's, it's much better for me as
an investor.
It's better for tenants for alot of reasons.
One is because a lot of thesecities, the rent rates have gone
up so much that if you're asingle guy or girl, right, and
you have a regular job, right,then you have to now find an
(16:01):
apartment and then you're goingto have to then sublet and lease
out to roommates.
Right.
And commit to a one year leasein order for you to be able to
afford a house to rent evenapartment, right?
Even an apartment, which a lotof times they won't let you
sublease, right?
And so it's, it's notaffordable.
So then your only option is nowyou got to go to a really
sketchy part of town or, or, youknow, make major compromises.
(16:24):
Also, if you have, when youlease an apartment, you have to
commit to a year and what if youhave something which is
transient, if you're not sureabout what your job is going to
be, like you just moved to townor you haven't gotten, you know,
you haven't gotten settled inand you started a new job, you
don't know if it's going towork, right?
A lot of question marks.
And so it's very difficult forpeople in that situation to find
housing.
(16:44):
So, if they're able to rent bythe room, and the room is month
to month, essentially.
Where the cost is lower so theycan get a nicer house, better
neighborhood and pay less.
And the only downside is theyhave to share a house with other
people, which most people woulddefinitely make that compromise
if that was their choice.
Right.
And they do.
(17:05):
Right.
And so it's providing a hugeservice to individuals.
So like, for example, I haveanother Pat's, but There is, uh,
the, the house, the house hasits father, the house father,
Russ, right?
Russ is in his sixties.
He got divorced, right?
And um, and is in sort of inthis sort of transient sort of
(17:27):
position.
He's trying to figure out whathe's going to do next.
Um, and so he didn't want tocommit to a one year lease and
he couldn't afford or it'd betoo hard for him to afford a
full apartment by himself.
So for him, it's a huge benefit.
He gets his room and then he nowis the guy that calls and he'll
fix this and he'll tweak thatand he'll make sure everybody's
(17:47):
taken care of and you know, he'sgreat.
And then there's another lady inthe house is who's also an older
lady.
I think she's in her sixtiesalso.
And, um, she doesn't want tolive by herself.
She can afford apartment byherself, but she's nervous to
live by herself.
Right.
So for her, it's a huge kind ofcomfort that there are other
people around that if she needssomething, you know, she's not
(18:10):
alone.
Right.
And, and, and if you had tochoose living in a part of town
where it's scary, right, but nowyou can live in a part of town
that's not as scary and you, andyou have this feel like you
don't have to feel as insecure.
Right.
So it's a huge benefit for her.
And then we have some youngpeople who are, like I said,
they're sort of between leasesbetween jobs.
(18:31):
And so there's, they don't wantto commit to a full lease.
It's good for the tenants.
It's great for the city, right?
It's great for the city that I'min city of Baltimore because you
know, there's a huge housingshortage everywhere and it's an
affordable housing shortage.
So the only way to fix theaffordable housing shortage, Is
(18:53):
to increase supply.
'cause the, the reason there's ashortage is'cause there's not
enough units, there's not enoughplaces to live, right?
And most of these cities havemade it so difficult to build,
right?
Mm-hmm.
It's, so there's like, in termsof the, you know, the permits
and the, the, all the stuff youhave to go through the whatever,
the people you have to bribe toget permitted, whatever it is.
(19:14):
Right.
Then it's so difficult to buildthat the big companies that
would build an apartmentbuilding, they don't want to
deal with it.
And so they're not coming in.
And so you have this affordablehousing problem where you can't
build, what do you do?
You need to increase supplywithout having to build.
So co living solves thatproblem.
I take a house that would havebeen one family.
(19:36):
And now instead, it'll have six.
Single people.
So now that's six units that areno longer needed of whatever
studio or one bedroom apartmentsnow that it's okay.
So it'll, it'll, it'll decreasethe demand, which will lower the
cost of living for everyoneelse.
Right?
So it's like everybody wins.
Investor Evolution (19:54):
Right.
I love, I love the way youexplain it because it's, it's a
very diverse group of peoplethat you can serve.
I talked to another physicianand she was in a co living
situation when she was in medschool.
And so she loves it because ithelped her through that
situation.
So this is good for students.
This is good for divorces,single people, you know, people
(20:18):
just trying to get back on theirfeet.
Like there's so many people thatyou can serve with the strategy.
And.
Very beneficial in so many waysthat you explained.
So thank you for that.
So let's talk about creativefinance.
Creative finance can be kind ofa, an interesting subject, and
there's a lot of nuances, butexplain how that helps people
(20:41):
get into real estate, especiallyin a current market where
interest rates are high.
You know, prices are comingdown, those profit margins are
maybe not looking as good.
How does that help?
Dan Grove (20:52):
Oh, it helps in so many ways.
So let's say you're a doctor,nurse, PA, NP, whatever.
And you have saved up, I don'tknow, like 50, 000, let's say,
right?
And so what you would have to dois you'd have to go to a bank.
And then you'd have to getapproved for, uh, uh, an
(21:13):
investment mortgage, like asecond mortgage for an
investment, you would then haveto go find an agent or start
searching for the properties,um, that agent, um, and then.
And you have to then doessentially for the bank, by the
way, to get approved, you needto do the whole financial
colonoscopy, right?
(21:33):
And so you'd have to tell themlike, you have to know every
house you ever lived in in yourlife and the address and
whatever.
And then now you have to find,find the house and then you have
to deal with the whole sort ofback and forth with the, with
the seller.
And usually the houses are moreexpensive.
So now if you have 50, 000.
Then you can buy a house that'sworth, you know, cause that's 20
(21:54):
percent down, right?
So you can buy a 250, 000 house.
So you can buy a house for 250,000.
Now, if you've been doing anymarket research, a 250, 000
house will buy you You know,either you're in a rural area or
you're going to be in an urbanarea.
That's sketchy.
Right.
(22:14):
And you now, and you've sunk 50,000 in the deal.
Okay.
So, um, and then you can only dothat once, right?
Investor Evolution (22:21):
Right.
Dan Grove (22:22):
Yeah.
Okay.
So now let's say you want to buya house like the other house I
did.
Right.
So the last house I did was asubject to so the story was.
was his name, the seller, Al,um, has a fiance and apparently
the fiance wanted a certain typeof wedding, right?
(22:45):
And that certain type of weddingrequired a heavy duty expense.
Okay.
So Al being the devoted fianceneeded the money.
So what he, but he didn't wantto spend, he couldn't spend two
or three months on the marketnegotiating, hoping that he gets
the price So what he did was he,um, he actually was, was
(23:07):
contacted by a wholesaler.
It's a wholesaler, somebody whowill like sort of lock up the
deal and then sell it to someoneelse, which in this case was me,
like just the way, you know,Walmart buys the stuff in China
and then sells it to you at amarkup.
So the wholesaler buys, likegets under contract and sells it
at a markup.
So if this house, I think isprobably, I think it's worth
(23:29):
about like$350K right?
So if I wanted to buy this houseas a, as a.
As a investor, I'd have to comeup with 70, 000 as a down
payment and get a loan from abank, financial colonoscopy,
probably the financial EGD also,and then the capital, the whole
thing, they'll probably go topto bottom, And then, um, and
(23:52):
then, and then make it work.
So now, but what he did insteadwas this, is that he actually
didn't really have much equityon the house.
Because he had gotten itrelatively recently, so it was
nice.
He had gotten it, fixed it up,and had rented it out for about
a year and a half.
It didn't have enough equity.
Um, but, um, it had a littlebit.
And he would have had to payseller commissions too, right?
(24:13):
He would have had to pay 6%.
Uh, so instead, what he did ishe agrees to subject to deal.
Which means, he will give, sellme the house.
Which means the deed getstransferred, I own the house.
But it's subject to the existingmortgages.
That's why if you've ever heardof Sub 2, that's where it comes
from.
The sale is subject to theexisting mortgage, right?
(24:34):
In classic lawyer speak, theymake it confusing, right?
So then you have to pay anotherlawyer to explain it to you,
right?
Okay, so that's where Sub 2comes from, right?
Subject 2, that's why, I guessthat's how Pace Morby came up
with the name for his, um, hismentorship, Sub 2, because it's
Subject 2.
So that means that the D getstransferred, but now I'm
(24:54):
responsible for the originalmortgage.
So the mortgage stays in hisname, but I'm making a payment
every month.
It's on auto pay.
And so we gave him, I think wegave him 30, 000.
Um, and then it costs us about8, 000 to make it okay for co
living.
(25:15):
Um, and then, so I think by allinvestment was about 40, 000,
45, 000, maybe with closingcosts.
Um, so instead of paying 75,000, it was 45, 000.
It benefits him cause he, he gotactually more than he would have
gotten at sale.
After you take away commissions,it happened faster.
(25:35):
We got it done, I think in likethree weeks.
Instead of two or three monthsplus delays.
Plus you never know if the, ifthe buyer is going to back out
last minute or if their mortgageis not going to get approved,
whatever.
Um, and then we can take thathouse now and, and I'm paying
every month.
I have the deeds, my house, andthen I, um, fix it up and now
it's going to be a co living.
It's already co living.
(25:55):
It filled up in like six weeks.
Investor Evolution (25:57):
Nice.
Perfect.
Dan Grove (25:58):
Yeah.
So that's the advantage of a sub2 and there's a lot of reasons
why somebody would want to sellsub 2.
So he's an example, is he needsthe money and he, and it
actually benefits him.
He gets more out of it than hewould have otherwise.
And he gets, or he gets it donefaster.
Or some people are desperate.
Like sometimes people are behindon their payments and they're
going to get foreclosed on.
Um, I saved one family fromforeclosure with a sub two.
(26:20):
And so it's a lot of reasons whysomebody would do it.
It happens all the time forpeople in our profession who
usually have never had a hardtime getting a mortgage.
It's like, seems like this crazything, but people doing it since
the, since the beginning ofbuying houses, I guess, I don't
know.
So I'm like, whatever.
Tuck Tuck sold his cave to NuckNuck and he probably used seller
(26:40):
finance.
I don't know what they did,right?
You know, but it's been going onforever.
I love it.
Investor Evolution (26:44):
I love it.
Awesome.
And I love, I love thateverything that you're doing.
You can see this through,through line of how you're
helping others, right?
You're helping others with theco living, you're helping that
seller get what he needed so hecould have that beautiful
wedding for that new bride, youknow, you're, you're helping
(27:06):
because I assume they're comingalong with you.
You know, you may be bringingmoney to the table, but you may
be partnering with an investorto come in.
So let's talk about that.
Like what are the types ofinvestors that you're looking
for?
What is your, or who is yourideal investor avatar to come
along with you on this journey?
Dan Grove (27:27):
So, yeah, so it's a, it depends.
There's not an ideal bet.
The only thing is That somebodyobviously has to have the
capital, but, um, the nice thingabout the way these things can
be done is we can be creativeabout that also.
So it depends on what theindividual wants, right?
Some people are like, just takemy money.
(27:48):
Give me my monthly check.
I don't care.
Fine.
You can work out something forthat too.
Some people are, I want to be100 percent involved.
I want equity in the house andwe could structure it that way
also.
Some people.
Can be in between or some peoplewant more information.
Some people want less, right?
Like some people want to beconstantly updated.
Fine.
Some people just, like I said,just as long as the check goes,
they don't, they just see thecheck deposited and everything's
(28:09):
fine.
Right.
Right.
And so it really depends on,but, but I think the ideal, like
the type of investor I think ofis like me, right?
I think of me five years ago,right?
Where it's like, I'm, I'minvesting, like I have money
saving for retirement.
I, I don't, I don't liveextravagantly.
So I always save, I always.
(28:30):
Spend less than I make so I wassaving for other things and then
so maybe somebody wants to takeThey're that extra savings and
do something other than exchangefund some people I actually have
somebody who invested with aself directed IRA, which is
really cool, right?
You can actually take your ownretirement money.
You can't do this with like a401 K or 43 B, but you can make
(28:52):
an IRA.
And then what you do is you thencan direct that IRA into any
investment you want.
You could buy baseball cards ifyou want it, like, just has to
be that you, um, yeah.
That you set it up correctly.
So I actually did this, right?
I had an IRA that didn't havethat much money, but I wanted to
see what it was all about.
Like, I'm a, again, tryeverything, right?
(29:13):
And so I had this money and whatI did is I found those companies
that act as a custodian, right?
Because the key is you have tomake sure that it's everything's
kosher with the IRS.
Right, that you're notbenefiting from this money.
Okay, you can't like take thismoney and, you know, use it to
buy yourself something becausethen you'll get penalized.
(29:34):
So there's the custodians andwhat they do is they will take
that money and they willtransfer it into their account
that they set up.
Right.
And then you just have to fillout a form, give them the wiring
instructions, and you can theninvest in a house with me.
You can invest in a multifamilydeal as a, as a, whatever, as a
syndicate, like I said, you canbuy baseball cards or I don't
(29:56):
know, like whatever people areinvesting in these days.
Like you ever you want, you canbuy, yeah, Bitcoin, you can buy
just gold.
I don't know.
Um, people were into BeanieBabies when I was a kid.
That was a thing in the 90s.
That was a big deal, right?
I don't know.
I don't think
Investor Evolution (30:08):
that would be a good investment these
Dan Grove (30:10):
days.
Nah, I wouldn't rec Like, by theway, it doesn't have to be a
good investment.
It just has to not be somethingthat you directly Like, for
example, if you invest in anAirbnb, you can't Go there for
free.
Investor Evolution (30:20):
Right.
Dan Grove (30:21):
Right.
You have to be careful thatstuff like that.
But as long as it's and usuallythe companies that you do this
with, they, they know all therules and they make sure and by
and by them being involved,you're good.
You don't have to worry aboutthe IRS.
And it's it's a pretty coolthing to do if you have that
extra money, uh, set asidebecause Um, like you can't do
it.
Most people can't do anythingwith it anyways.
(30:42):
In a while.
The amount of money that you canmake, um, in these real estate
investments is much higher thanyou would make in just a mutual
fund.
And so, and then it's nice againto be diversified, right?
If you have your 401k and stocksand bonds.
It's good to have something elseso that if you get close to
retirement the stock marketcrashes you have another Kind of
(31:02):
thing to buff it.
Um buffer that if um, if there'sa problem.
Yeah, send it back to whatyou're saying.
I like it I can talk about it.
No, it's all good.
What's the idea of that?
So somebody who has that kind ofincome, right, that wants to put
it in something, like I don't, Idon't think it's good.
I'm not looking for people whoare looking to quit their jobs
(31:23):
and then just be real estatemoguls and I'm not looking for
people who this is money theyneed to live on.
I don't think that's a goodidea.
Like that doesn't make me feelgood, but it's like somebody who
has extra money in savings andthey want to put it in something
to diversify, to get more, toget more, um, more returns.
Uh, or for, you know, forwhatever goals they have.
Investor Evolution (31:41):
Well, and I mean this, this is an
investment.
There are risks involved.
Just as if you invest in thestock market, it's possible to
lose money.
That can happen in real estatealso.
So this is not something to beentered into lightly or just
because we said, hey, you shoulddo this.
Don't do that.
You do your own
Dan Grove (31:59):
YouTube video.
The guy was flying a privatejet.
It's got to be right.
That's what it said on theYouTube video.
He's flying a private jet.
You said you can't lose,
Investor Evolution (32:05):
right?
Right.
Yeah, don't do that.
So let's talk about becausewe've kind of danced around it a
little bit.
The difference between a privatemoney partner or a PMP and a
private money lender or a PML.
Um, what are the differences?
I assume you work with both andtell us those nuances.
Dan Grove (32:24):
Yeah, so a private money lender is like a bank,
right?
It means that they give youmoney, usually, like, the thing
that we've done is like, theyneed the money, that's the money
for the, uh, the repairs and theinitial payment to the seller
and the closing costs, all themoney you need to get going.
And then every month, you paythem whatever the rate and the
term is.
So they get a monthly checkevery month, sort of no matter
(32:45):
what.
Right.
So like I, if I have a PML, Igot to figure out how to pay
them out of my own pocket if Ihave to, if, um, right.
And that usually PML is, is, issecured against the house.
So they have, they have, um,they have a lien on the house in
case something terrible happens.
Um, and that's a private moneylender.
They don't usually have a lotof, they don't have any really
(33:07):
say about what happens with theinvestment.
They're not going to tell mewhat, where to put a room here
and what to do with this and howto, what access strategy.
They're just saying.
They will do vetting, theyshould do vetting to make sure
that, you know, it's a good dealand they have to check with me,
check me out, um, but they won'tdo anything like that and they
get their monthly payment,usually at a set interest rate.
(33:30):
A private money partner is apartner, right?
So they usually will get, sothere's a lot, you know, again,
there's a million ways to dothis.
They could get, some people willget an interest rate that's
lower.
So they'll get a lower interestrate.
So a lower monthly payment, butthey'll get equity in the house.
They'll get a stake in the houseso that they're getting less per
(33:51):
month in the cash, but theequity of the house is building.
So that when the house sells orwhen the, whenever in the future
they get, you know, whatever thehouse increases by 200, 000,
they'll get 10, 15, 20 percentof that 200, 000.
And so, and then some peoplewill do a pure 50, 50 equity
deal, which is.
We both own the house, right?
And so, um, we, you know, we,we're in this together.
(34:14):
It's a, it's a marriage and it'sactually, you think that it's
like more commitment than amarriage, but I guess most
marriages last about sevenyears.
So it's about a marriage.
It's, it's, it's your typicalmarriage,
Audio Only - All Partici (34:24):
right?
Dan Grove (34:25):
Right.
So, um, yeah.
And so, and those ones usuallyin the equity deals, the private
money partners, then it's like,for me, when I have a private
money partner, it's like.
She's mostly deferring to me,but we're in this together.
Like we're deciding, like wemade, okay, this is the plans.
What do you think of this?
Do you agree?
We have this problem.
We need to raise this money.
You know, like we're working onthis together.
(34:48):
Both people need to meet, peopleneed to be approved and, and,
and I can't pay off like a PML.
I can pay off the balance.
And then they're gone a PMP, Ihave to pay off the equity.
So I have to, you know, I haveto buy them out or we have to
sell and they have to get paidoff.
It's, it's more because it'slike more of a sort of a
(35:09):
partnership.
Right.
And the advantage.
So the advantage of each PMLusually gets.
There's a couple of advantagesof, and disadvantages.
The PML has the advantage ofthey're more likely to get paid
if things go bad.
They usually get a higher sortof amount of money every month.
They get their money everymonth.
The outside, um, is that theyhave, they don't get the real,
(35:30):
the real wealth in real estateis with time and equity, right?
It's like, I looked at it, likeif you look at the cash flow,
it's usually.
PML, we had 10%, 12%, 8%,whatever it is like that they
agree on.
Um, and, but, uh, but an equitydeal like that equity increases
(35:50):
over a 10 year period, a lot,you know, it could increase a
lot when you add in, you know,the house could be double in
value and it could be a hundredthousands of dollars and it ends
up being, you know, five, 600percent on the, on the initial
investment.
So there's the advantage, theadvantage of PML is it's more
sort of.
(36:10):
Passive like you don't have todo anything.
Uh, the advantage of the PMP isyou get the equity, um, which is
usually if you're patient,right, um, patience is
important, right?
Patience is important.
So, uh, the equity builds withtime.
You get much more money in the,in the backend.
So like for people with selfdirected IRAs, this is perfect
(36:30):
because you don't need the moneyanyways.
Like, so just.
Just let it sit.
You're happy.
You know, all the money that youget from the cashflow anyways is
going to get put back in youraccount, right?
So you can just, it's better.
Like you almost want onlyequity, just let it build.
And like, you don't need themoney.
Um, and so that's an advantage.
You usually make more in thelong run and you can also, the
(36:54):
gains, the money that you make,uh, you can, um, offset by
depreciation because you havesome equity.
So there's tax benefits.
Um to it that you can that youcan get if you don't have it in
the like the ira Right if youjust did it straight with your
money um the The amount of themoney that you get there's ways
for you to offset the taxes
Investor Evolution (37:15):
like
Dan Grove (37:16):
lots of ways
Investor Evolution (37:17):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it depends on like yoursource of capital, as you said,
right?
If your source of capital iscoming from a HELOC, you are not
lending that for seven years orthat you will not make money.
Right?
But if you're lending it fromyour IRA, beautiful.
And then you don't have to moveit, right?
You make money when you movemoney.
And if you're not having to moveit through different sources,
(37:38):
And it's still accumulating.
It's working for you.
It's a beautiful, it's abeautiful situation.
And I know a lot of PMLs who doboth, right?
They have their short termcapital that they're deploying,
and then they have their longterm capital, and they have
different strategies based onthe different amount of money,
or different sources of capital.
Dan Grove (37:59):
Right.
Investor Evolution (37:59):
Um, where, where are you investing?
Are there certain markets thatyou're investing in?
Are you kind of over thecountry?
Are you in certain areas?
Dan Grove (38:10):
When I started out, I didn't pick a market.
That's another nice thing aboutcareer finance.
You can be more flexible.
And so what I've done is I'vetried to find different markets
and get houses.
And then, and then in the, inthe market, you develop, I
develop relationships.
And so the relationships.
Then you have a good propertymanager in that market.
Now that's the market.
So like I feel confident inDetroit and I feel confident in
(38:30):
Baltimore and I feel confidentin Denver where I have houses.
And so, and so that's kind ofthe way I do it.
Once you have had a house andyou feel like you know the team,
then that's where I'll go.
But I feel pretty comfortablesetting up those teams.
Because I've done it in theseother places and kind of know,
um, having learned a lot thehard way how to, um, how to like
(38:53):
the questions to ask and what tolook for and stuff like
Investor Evolution (38:57):
that.
Let's, let's switch a little bitfrom, uh, the real estate side
of things to more of our mindsetside of things.
You're a busy guy.
Yeah.
I mean, you have a full timejob.
You have a family, you've gotthree kiddos, like, how have you
pushed this into your life?
And how are you managing that?
(39:18):
How are you using timemanagement skills to allow
yourself the time and hopefullyfreedom?
Hopefully you're gaining that toget all this stuff done.
Dan Grove (39:29):
Right.
Yeah.
So for me, I, I.
It's not, it's a little biteasier for me because I hate
having nothing to do, right?
I like being busy.
I love being busy.
For me, those, those, like, thevacations on the beach, I could
do that for maybe two hourslying on the beach.
Okay.
And then it's like, I want to gofor it, like, go run or do
(39:50):
stuff, like, let's go walk Rex.
I, I, I don't sit still verywell.
And so being busy is good forme.
I like having things to do.
But I think that it's importantto, I try to choose what to do
and to focus.
And so, um, I think if probablymost people did a little like
journal every day and they kindof just tracked all the things
(40:10):
they do and for how many minutesover the whole course of one
day, I think you'd probablyrealize that there's a lot of
time in the day where you couldfind.
So I get, I don't have, like, Idon't scroll on things.
I don't scroll on social media.
Um, I don't have a television.
Because, um, I don't want to getsucked into that, um, like I
guess you could watch stuff onthe, on the phone every once in
a while, um, I, uh, so cuttingthose things out probably for
(40:34):
most people would give them twoor three hours a day,
Investor Evolution (40:36):
if not more, if not more,
Dan Grove (40:39):
I don't, I, I, I'm not a foodie, right?
So I don't spend a lot of timecooking, right?
I'll eat a bowl of cereal andthat's how I'm fine with that.
Right.
And so I think just that, like,and then, and then what I do
during the day is, is so for,so, you know, if I'm working in
the hospital.
And, um, and, and there's a slowperiod, that's 15 minutes that I
(40:59):
can do something, right?
Um, whatever it is, you know,there's a lot of things that you
can do, right?
And so, um, if, if, if you havea day off, like, I'd rather just
do stuff and, you know, sleep,get a little less sleep is fine.
You know, I'm not gonna, I don'tsleep 11 hours on the weekend
and, right?
And so, and then, and then.
(41:20):
Multitasking, meaning if I cantalk on the phone when I'm
driving home from work, well,that's 20 minutes, um, where,
you know, I can, I can, youknow, make, make a difference
that way.
And so, so that's kind of theway I find, I find those things.
Investor Evolution (41:37):
So little pockets of time that you're
taking.
Dan Grove (41:40):
Exactly, exactly.
Investor Evolution (41:41):
Awesome.
I love it.
And have you found that withyour days of working versus your
days off and investing thatyou're better able to get in the
flow because you're like, okay,this is the time I'm, I'm, this
is what I'm doing and you canget into it a little bit better
(42:02):
and then vice versa when you'reat work, you know, that's,
that's flow that you got to do.
Or do you feel like multitaskingboth sides?
Yes.
Dan Grove (42:10):
No, I don't.
I take that back.
When I say multitasking, it'slike I'm driving.
I don't believe though.
I don't believe in multitasking,actual multitasking.
Okay.
Like I think it's, I think it'smuch better that I should take
whatever, um, you know, a halfhour
Investor Evolution (42:27):
and
Dan Grove (42:28):
do something like straight and take an hour and do
two things, which I probablywouldn't do as well either way.
I think it's pretty, that'spretty clear.
I think that that's noteffective.
So I, I do try, like, I thinkit's important and I, like, I
know my, I also do sleepmedicine.
So I know my circadian cyclevery well.
(42:49):
And I, if I can have betweenlike 9am and noon, right, I
could get a ton done if I don'thave distractions.
Right.
If I go to the Starbucks andjust like hunker down, right.
And so, um, yeah, so, so I thinkthat that's.
That's kind of what I do.
So focusing when you're focused,so doing a lot of things, but
(43:13):
only, but never doing more thanone thing at a time.
Investor Evolution (43:17):
Good.
When
Dan Grove (43:18):
you can.
Do some things at the same, youknow what I mean?
Investor Evolution (43:22):
Sure, sure.
And I agree with you, like,driving, I'm, I'm listening to
something.
I am always listening to apodcast or a book or, or
something.
Uh, when, do you, do you findthat, especially now, like,
you're in the flow, you'velearned a ton of stuff, you've
accumulated all that knowledge,you're putting it into practice.
(43:42):
Do you find now that you'reworking?
Less but getting more donebecause you found that
efficiency.
Dan Grove (43:50):
I think I'm working the same and getting more done
not because but that's notbecause That's because I like
it.
It's not because I'm, you know,I have to, you know what I mean?
Because I like it, so like, Idon't mind doing this stuff,
right?
I'd rather have something to do.
I don't think I'll ever retire.
(44:11):
It doesn't sound like it.
Yeah, yeah, I don't like people,that sounds pleasing, like
appealing to people.
So like, what do you do?
Like, you just stop working andthen what do you do?
You move to Florida and wait todie.
That's what I understand aboutit.
About retirement, right?
Yeah.
Let's just find a differentcareer, or a different thing, or
(44:31):
a different whatever, you knowwhat I mean?
Maybe I will, you know, maybeyou do it less hours in the day,
right?
You know?
And you do it if you want to,and you take days off to see the
grandkids when you want to, butyou're always doing something,
you know?
Investor Evolution (44:44):
We had a little battery die, so we're on
the phone.
We're gonna finish it out.
No worries.
I was telling Dan, it actuallygave me a chance to reformulate
this question in a little bitbetter way, and tell you a
little bit more what I wasthinking.
So, I just started listening toa A book called 10x is easier
than 2x by Dan Sullivan andBenjamin Hardy.
(45:05):
And, you know, the premise isthat what got you here won't get
you there.
And you have to change yourthinking.
And one of the things they talkabout is as you 10x, Your, your
vision, your goals andeverything, you'll gain time
back in order to pursuedifferent goals and pursue
different passions, maybedifferent purposes.
(45:25):
And so I wonder if you feel likethat will continue in medicine,
you know, and obviously, youknow, we don't have a crystal
ball, who knows what the futuremay hold.
But where do you feel like?
That could lead you with beingable to pursue a passion that's
maybe more than what you'redoing now or in addition to.
Dan Grove (45:44):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that, that what I love is that I
can just come up with some crazyidea and then go try to do it.
Like I got into research at thehospital just recently, right?
And so, you know, be able tojust, just do stuff like that.
I have a list of things that Iwould want to do that if I had
sort of more money I could do.
(46:06):
So that's probably what it wouldbe.
It would be.
Just get this running, right?
And then transition to, youknow, something else, you know
what I mean?
And then just get from there.
Yeah,
Investor Evolution (46:18):
right.
And I think there's always ournext level We all we all have
that next level that we'relooking to achieve.
We never stop growing Weshouldn't ever stop growing and
I agree with you.
I feel like some people just Idon't want to, I don't want to
do that either.
So I, I'm looking
Dan Grove (46:38):
forward to it.
They're also just lookingforward to the end.
Like they don't, they don't livefor like what they're doing now.
That's just right.
Oh, everything will be great.
Once I retire, once I do X, Y,and Z.
And I think that that's, that'sa recipe for disaster because.
And when you get there, if it'snot what you wanted, what you
thought it was going to be,because most of the thing that
we most of the things that weanticipate in the future are not
(47:01):
what we thought they're going tobe either both for good and for
bad.
They're usually never as greatas we think they're going to be
and they're never as bad as wethink they're going to be.
Investor Evolution (47:07):
So, I mean, I think that's a huge point,
right?
You know, when I get there, thenI will.
No, if you're not doing it now,you probably won't do it then.
So the things you want to bedoing now, put them into place
now, so you can enjoy them asyou're going.
I totally agree with that 100%.
Dan, this has been amazing.
I I'm just so grateful for youfor your perspective.
(47:31):
Tell us where we can find youfor those who are like, I like
this guy.
I want to learn more.
How do I invest with him?
Where can we find you?
Dan Grove (47:39):
So I have a website called grovefamilyinvestments.
com and on that site I have, um,I have like just some blog
posts, like explaining some ofthese things like creative, why
creative finance and stuff likethat.
And then, um, and it has thelinks to all the social medias.
Investor Evolution (47:56):
Beautiful.
Dan Grove (47:56):
I post things on YouTube and I post things on
Instagram and stuff like that.
I had to learn all this stuffwhen I got into real estate.
I'm a pre internet child, right?
Investor Evolution (48:07):
All good.
Same.
The best thing
Dan Grove (48:08):
about being my age is that you did all your
embarrassing things before theinternet.
So there's My, those picturesare not on a Chinese server
farm,
Investor Evolution (48:16):
so they will
Dan Grove (48:16):
never be found.
That's
Investor Evolution (48:17):
right.
That's right.
All right.
So everyone go find him at GroveFamily Investments.
You can check him out.
You can, he's got a lot ofinformation on that site.
You can see some of hisprojects.
You can link to his socials.
Dan, thank you so much.
And we will have you backbecause this was great.
And maybe we'll talk a littlemore mindset because I think we
can go deep, deep on that.
(48:38):
Yeah.
Dan Grove (48:38):
Especially when I have like the background set up
and I can be in my actual house.
In my office where you know,it's a little less like you
said, but this is multi tasking,right?
Investor Evolution (48:46):
I
Dan Grove (48:48):
have nothing to do.
I'm not going to waste thistime.
Let's get let's get stuff done.
Investor Evolution (48:53):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Dan, thank you so much for yourtime today.
I appreciate you and everyonetill next time.
Have a good one.
Dan Grove (49:00):
All right.
Take care.
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