Our Kids & Sexual Assault - How to Prevent, Respond & Support // with Claire & Dr. Sadohl - Know Them, Be Them, Raise Them

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. SaDohl Jones (00:00):
there's something to be said about the sharing of this
experience and the courage thatthat takes for that to be verbalized.
It's also something that they maybe afraid that if everyone knows
how are they gonna look at me?
It took me everything I had to tell you.
And if I think everybody else inthe family knows, oh God, I'll die.

(00:24):
Welcome to know them.
Be them, raise them.
Uh, show to help momsstand formed and inspired.
So they can show up for themselves andtheir daughters the way they want to.
I'm your host Carmelita two.
Before I head into today's episode,
I do want to mention that my guestsand I talk about sexual assault
from an educational perspective.
There's no graphic stories, butwe do discuss how to react to and

(00:47):
support survivors of sexual assault.
For some, this might be difficultor you may choose not to listen
to this around young children.
I encourage everyone to assess theirsituations, take care of themselves.
And if you need additional resources,head to rainn.org, that's R a I N n.org.
Or check the show notes for links.

(01:10):
So this is a podcast first for me,as you likely know, I try to keep my
episodes around the 20 to 25 minutemark to make them easy to finish on
your commute, a lunch break, et cetera.
But when I went to edit this40 ish minute interview and try
to break it into two episodes.
I found it was so powerfulthat I couldn't break it up.

(01:32):
One of my goals for this podcast is reallyto give moms and parents the insights
and skills to navigate the tough topics.
And sexual assault certainlyfalls into this category.
My guests today do amasterful job of sharing in a
compassionate and informed way.
Claire and Dr.
Sedol, our two sexual trauma specialists.

(01:53):
In Atlanta, Georgia.
To heal their own trauma whilehelping others do the same.
They've dedicated their professionaland personal lives to healing.
They have over 39 years of combinedsexual trauma recovery experience.
Both in the therapist chairand on the couch as clients.
Their channel and business iscalled RESET: Trauma Unstuck.

(02:16):
And they launched the FOFor freak out free podcast on
Valentine's day of this year.
Where they match survivors, helpersand allies with resources for sexual
trauma healing to increase confidenceand handle life the freakout freeway.
We talked in depth about what to do, ifyour child or anyone really shares with

(02:38):
you that they've been sexually assaultedor have experienced sexual trauma.
How to respond, how toprocess and provide support.
As I noted earlier, it's areally powerful conversation.
It just flowed and everysecond felt so insightful.
So I didn't edit it down.
Um, but I'm sure you will find it ascaptivating as and compelling as I did.

(03:00):
Here's our conversation.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (03:07):
Claire, and Sadohl, I am thrilled to
have you here because I know yourexpertise and wisdom will provide
guidance for a lot of the listeners.
So thank you for being here with me.

Thank you for having us.
Thank you very much.

Claire Horner (03:21):
Absolut.

So I, I think I'd like to dive
in with kind of a question.
Reactions, you know, what are somereactions we can anticipate and
prepare for when we learn of someone'ssexual assault or when someone
decides to share their story ofsexual assault with, um, with anyone.

This is a conversation that Claire and I have had before,
kind of like that space of whensomeone does share with you their
experience, um, What's the reaction?
What's an authentic reaction and what'sthe best reaction for the person sharing?
And so I think when you look at,the parental relationship, the
initial reaction is probably notthe reaction that's going to benefit

(04:08):
the person that's sharing, right?
Because initially our firstreaction is to be protective.
Our first reaction may be to be in denial.
Our first reaction may be disbeliefthat this is actually happening and.
Um, Claire and I are liking this to thisspace of grief of like the first two
reactions are usually not the best ones.
Um, and they're not the ones thatwe're gonna sit with the longest.

(04:31):
Um, and so when it comes to beinga parent, as a parent, I think the
best thing to do is to not react asmuch as possible initially and allow
the person, allow the child, theson, the daughter, the other person
on the other end to continue to.

Okay.

Because there's something about being able to have the
voice initially to say it out loud.
And usually the, the person's lookingto see how you're going to react.

Right,

That lets them know if they want to continue this
conversation and continue the sharingand continue this space of vulnerability.
And so my initial,recommendation is to not react.
at first.

Mm.

you may have an internal reaction, but
don't have a verbal reaction.
Don't have an outward, um, reactioninitially because, that reaction.
To deter them from continuing to talk.
Cuz again, as parents, we wanna protect.
So I would imagine initially you want togo after the person, you want to start
asking questions when, why, how, whatyou wanna do all those different things.

(05:38):
But those are the things thatcan really shut someone down.
Um, that space of feelinginterrogated, that space of feeling
blamed, even if it's unintentional.
And so, first, um, thought would be toallow that person to continue speaking
so that you can find out what you needto find out so that you can encourage

(05:59):
them to u continue to use their voiceto express what's going on with them,
and then create a safe space withyou creating that and cultivating
that relationship of a safe space.
Um, and with kids, we know thatoftentimes if they don't feel like
they can speak to you about one thing,then they're probably not gonna speak
to you about the next thing, right?
They're not gonna go into more detail.

(06:20):
And also, just from experienceas a therapist and as a parent,
what I hear first is usuallynot the whole story, right?
There's usually muchmore to come after that.
And so I wanna leave that door open.
For my son and my daughter to continueto have that conversation with me,

Yes.

and continue to share piece by piece.
Cuz a lot of times it's not alltogether that, that they're going
to share, they're gonna share alittle bit X, y, and Z happen.
And then they're gonna see whatyour reaction is and then they're
gonna share a little bit more.
And so you want to leavethat door open for them.
And so that would be myinitial, my initial response.
Um, and then I'll let Claireresponder add to that.

(06:56):
But that's kind of.
I think we wanna go, we want to,you know, don't react verbally,
don't react outwardly, initially,allow the person to continue, allow
the child to continue to speak.
Um, but you wanna, of course,creating that nurturing space, but
you want them to continue to talk.
Don't ask a bunch of questions,that's not necessary.

(07:17):
Um, and, and also, yeah, a ask thatstuff later and also do a self-check.
Do a self check on you.
Like control your,control, your own stuff.
It's like, I like to say, controlhow you're feeling on the inside.
Control that initial, you know, mama bear,Papa Bear reaction to what you're hearing.

Hmm.

and go into that space of nurturing and listening.
Active listening, we'd liketo say right in a therapy
space and of active listening.

yeah.
I just have to say that I.
This is a, a, a light bulb moment cuzI, I, I do think that we as parents,
and, and I know it myself and I knowI've seen it in my parents, tend to
react instinctively, oftentimes inthe best way we know how, which might
be what we've seen in the media orwhat we've seen from parents who don't

(08:11):
have the best emotional regulation.
But it's what we know and I,I could see myself very much
reacting from that interrogatory.
Angry place because I thinkthat's how I should be reacting.
so introducing this idea of kind of hitpause on that because that's not what's
gonna serve your child in the best wayis, is really kind of a wonderful take

(08:36):
on it cuz you know what's best for usor what we think is best for us in the
moment might not actually be what's bestfor the communication and the dialogue
and the relationship with your child.

Yeah.

if you can take that deep breath and swallow all those feelings for
the moment, just hit the pause button.
You don't have to hold them forever,but hold them for the moment and say, if
you need to say something, tell me more.

Mm-hmm.
Mm.

Tell me more.
Tell me what you can right now.
If, if it needs to comelater, it can come later.
Just keeping that openness,that availability.
You may not be able to say everythingnow, but you could always come back to me.
But let's take care of you.
That's the message youwanna give is I hear you.

(09:27):
I believe you.
Let's take care of you.

Mm

don't have to do anything right now.
We don't have to do anything rightnow except honor this moment and
honor what you've been through.

Mm-hmm.

I do think it's super important that to, to know that the
likelihood that this sharing will come ata very random moment that is not timely.

Mm-hmm.

It may come when you're balancing five things and have groceries
in hand or another child or something,and it just is that they found the moment.
To get the words outof, out of their mouth,

Mm

and so everything has to stop

Mm-hmm.

everything.
If you're in the car, pull over.

Right.

Nothing else matters in that moment.

Mm-hmm.

Because what they've been through is, is the most important thing.
And if they've managed toget it out of their mouth, it
took a long time to get from,

Yeah,

took a long pathway across the country, across the nation,
across the world, potentially to getto what you're hearing right now.
And it might even be a whisperbecause keep in mind, trauma is.
Often, well always trauma alwaysshuts off the language center.

Mm

And so sometimes getting to the words even later
afterwards is very, very difficult.

Mm-hmm.

Often why, why people don't talk about it.
So those are my, my things is tokeep that phrase in your back pocket.
And I think that fitsfor so many situations.
Tell me more.
Um, because if someone's initiatinga conversation, it's their.

Right.

your turn, but it is their turn and the
reactive response is not helpful.
The other huge thing that, um, DRSand I talked about in thinking about
these big ticket moments and whatto do is prepare ahead of time.

Mm-hmm.

Prepare your internal responses ahead of time.
Know that it's likely not, likeI said, it's potentially gonna
happen in a random moment.
It also may include information thatyou have a surprising reaction to.

Mm-hmm.

What if it's a sibling talking about another sibling?
You are going to have some feelings about.

Yeah.

So sit with that early,

And there has to be a place to check that.
Right?
So thinking about parental responsesor just responses in general and
thinking about that space of protectingour kids and wanting to show them
that we want to protect them.
And balancing, like Claire justmentioned, balancing that space between
family, um, and other family members.
Other siblings, right.

(12:33):
And the other child.
I think there's something to be said.
Having conversations early,talking about safe spaces early.

Mm-hmm.

it's almost like a space of being preventative in
communication so that your kids do feelcomfortable coming and speaking to you
about whatever they have on their mind.
Whether that's, I've experienced thissexual trauma or I cut my finger, right?
And then you being nurturingin those small instances,
you being open in those small

Hmm.

Um, You being willing to hear and listen to
them in those small spaces, um,that allows for those big spaces.
Um, they will be more apt to come toyou in those bigger spaces as well.
And so I think one of the things thatwe talk about is, um, how do we set up
our communication dynamic with our kids?

(13:26):
What does that dynamic look like?
Um, on a, about, about everythingon any given Sunday, right?
What does that conversation look like?
And.
Because that's what's going tosay, yay, this is gonna work.
Okay.
I know that I can talkto my mom about the boy.
I can talk to my mom about the girl.
I can talk to my dad about school.

(13:47):
I can talk to my dad about, youknow, sport, whatever the thing is.
This is, this is no different.

Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

in that same line.
I can still talk to them about this too.
And as Clara said, because that languagecenter is shut down, it's really
important that kids have a space togo to, and know that they can come
to you like you are that safe space.
And so oftentimes it's reallydifficult to have that conversation.
It's really difficult to hear.
And as parents, sometimes wehave to check our own trauma.

(14:17):
We have to check our ownexperiences, um, and our own biase.
Right.
Check those things and, and notallow those things to be, , the
responsibility of our kids.

Hmm.
It's so helpful to hear you lay outthese suggestions as to how to prepare,
cuz I think that certainly for me,that's something I'm, I'm, I just have no
knowledge of and, and so, you mentionedthinking about situations and how you
might react and thinking about your ownhistories and, and checking yourself

(14:52):
and make, and identifying your owntriggers and how you might be inclined
to instinctively respond, you know, , andsitting with that, it's not comfortable
right.
Um, but, but such,

comfortable.
It's just not a comfortablesituation, adult or child, right?
Doesn't matter what, how old you are.
It's just not a comfortable conversation.
And, um, so it's, it's just difficult.
It's difficult to havethose conversations.
And so spec specifically, we talk aboutadults, it's hard to, to verbalize
those things, but can you imagine as a.
To verbalize those

Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

that comes along with that, and the courage that it
takes for kids to say, this is what'sgoing on with that fear in mind.

Yes.
Yeah, I just got chillsrethinking about that.
Like you said, the courage it would take.
And, and Claire you mentioned likewhen it does come up, even at these
inopportune moments, I love the mentalpicture of if you're in the car, like
pull aside that, cuz I, I don't know ifthat would've been my initial reaction.
I think being told, you know, if you'retold in the car pull aside is so helpful

(15:59):
because I, I, I could see myself beinga deer in headlights and just continuing
to just go through the motions andall the while trying to process, not
thinking about how not stopping would

Mm-hmm.

you know, your child or whomever
is telling you their story.

Well, that goes along with, you know, How, what is
the, what is the culture in yourhome of listening to one another?
When someone says, I have somethingimportant to say, do you stop and turn to
them and sort of drop what's happening?
Or ask them, how muchattention do you need?

(16:38):
Do you need my full attention?

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

and if that is something that happens on a regular basis about
other topics, then it will be muchmore instinctual with the big ones,
and especially teenagers, I don't know.
I was one for sure, and I picked somerandom times to speak to some things
and um, and, and usually it was thatmoment of it just sliding out, you know?

(17:03):
But keep in mind too, trauma alsohappens, and especially in this
category of sexual abuse and sexualassault before children have language.

Mm-hmm.

So they don't always have the language to share.
They may have the languageto say, I'm uncomfortable.
They may have the language.
You know, we talk about bodyautonomy, even with young children,
not making them hug everyone.

Mm.

not having the culture in your home that you must hug
everyone that comes in the house,because that's the sweet thing to do.
Especially if you're a girl.
You know, that's, that'snot, that's your choice.
Who you hug is your choice.

Mm.
Mm-hmm.

but I also think that, you know, another one of these cultural
in, in the home kind of cultural thingsis maybe you don't have to say it.
If you have something importantto say to me, you can write it
down or you can draw me a picture.
You can give some indication thatyou need to get something to me.
And sometimes words are hard,sometimes language is not.

Mm-hmm.

If you see an article or if you hear a song, or if you,
you know, share, share those thingswith me, if it resonates with you.
And then when this, ifthis topic comes up.
And they need to share somethingthat almost happened or um, or did
happen then there's again, it's,there's already a, a path paved

(18:36):
there for the, for the interactions.
I will, I'm gonna also throw in kind ofa like, uh, legal recommendation if you
finish and kind of get through to theother side of this conversation and you
know, you, you both feel terrible but goodall at the same time because you've been,

(18:57):
they've been able to share this with you.
Definitely as a parent, as soonas you can, when you get in
a, in a private space, writeeverything down that you heard.

Ah.

Start the record in case you need.

Mm-hmm.

Write down where you were, what they said, what, how, how you
interpreted what they said, what theynamed, if there're, you know, if there's
who, what, where, when, why, and how.
Questions that were answered.

Hmm

details down.
Go ahead and start therecord cuz you may need it.

That's such,

it's important that that's something that we do
after the fact, and that's not thegoal during the conversation, right?
So it's something I think that'sso important because oftentimes
we will forget or it, it, youknow, goes out of our mind.
But that's not what youwanna do in the conversation.
You do want to be genuine, authentic,focused, checking yourself, checking
with your kid, that kind of thing.

(19:53):
And then for sure when youget a moment, um, Things have
maybe settled down for sure.
Document, document, document, document.
As much as, um, as much as possible.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: The, that reminder to document. (20:04):
undefined
Is so helpful too, because I canimagine when big feelings come around
that might not be your first instinct.
You know?
It's so you're still processing, you'restill feeling all of these things.
I could see myself being superupset and not, not wanting to
necessarily write about that,maybe writing about other things.

(20:27):
But, um, so that's, that's really helpful.
And it, it, it relates to Claire,what you were saying about.
Opening up different avenues tolet your child communicate with
you if, because sometimes a verbalcommunication isn't the easiest.

Yeah, in introducing those multiple spaces of
communication, because everyone doesn'tcommunicate the exact same way, right?
So because everyone doesn'tcommunicate the same way, allowing
your kid to communicate in the bestway that helps them in that moment.

Right.

and that may evolve over time and over developmental stages.
You know, initially it may be drawinga picture and then it may be writing,
and then it may be speaking andthen, you know, that kind of thing.
But allowing that range anddifferentiation of communication

Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

allows them to be themselves.
That's that space of also creatingautonomy and creating a space of
openness and conversation early on.
And so when we think of like, how do you.
How do you prevent, how do youhelp, how do you, um, ensure that
your, your kid is going to share?
And I say kid, cuz I don'twanna only focus on girls

(21:35):
because oftentimes it's boys

Mm-hmm.

right?
So it's, it's sometimes thereare situations where the boys
have to have these conversationsand it's usually difficult.
More difficult, I would say, for boys tohave the conversation because they're not
taught that these are things that theyshould be having a conversation about.

Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

when those things do come up, if they know that
any way they communicate is okay,
we hear this thing where kidsare, are small, kids are kind
of communicating non-verbal.
And parents are like, speak.
I need you to speak.
Use your voice.
Use your voice.
Well, when they get ready, they will.
Right?
They will use their voice at somepoint and it's, it's helpful to
encourage them to use their voice,but sometimes things are not verbal.

Uh,

Um, and so if I can draw a picture, you know, we're not doing play
therapy, but I can draw this picture to,to, to illustrate to you what's happening
and then you can take it from there.

I like the validation of writing and pictures.
And honoring that as away to express yourself.
I think a lot of times in our extrovertedsociety, we see saying something as the
ultimate way of communicating, but beingable to articulate period, what you're
thinking and what you've gone through.

(22:52):
is the end goal.

And oftentimes, you know, when someone is traumatized,
it shuts down certain parts of their.
Communication or certain parts of theirbrain or certain parts of their body.
And so maybe that verbalcommunication isn't there anymore.
Right.
So, Claire talked a, a littlebit earlier about that language
piece, being affected.
When trauma happens,sexual trauma happens.
Sometimes that language piece isaffected for a long period of time.

Mm.

And so if the voice is gone, For a long period of time,
whether that's a month or two months, orthree months, or six months or a year.
If that kid is no longer verballycommunicating and the only way
you will allow them to communicatetheir feelings is verbally, then
that creates a barrier immediately.
I think back to Maya Angelou whotalked about her sexual trauma as

(23:42):
a kid, and it's shutting down herverbal communication for over a year,
she didn't communicate verbally.

Right.
He didn't

Right.
And when we think of Maya Angelou,we don't necessarily think of her
not speaking, but, but it, she didn'tcommunicate for a year verbally, out of
fear of what would happen if she spoke.
And so that lends itself to how wecommunicate our intent to protect
our children to our children.

Mm

Right?
So when we say if some someone doessomething to you, I will blank blank, and.
Now a kid is probably afraid toeven let you know that something
has happened cuz they don't wantsomething to happen to you or something
to happen to the other person.
Or something to happen to them.
And so then they may not speak at allbecause they are in fear of what you
may do to the person who's hurt them.

(24:31):
And then also they may be in fearof what will then happen to you.

Right.

So there's this dichotomy of, yeah, so there's this
dichotomy of like, well, I'm going tolose my parent because if my parent
does something violent and goes toprison or gets killed or something,
then I'm gonna lose that person.
And then now there's a possiblya person in my family that I'm
also going to lose because myparent has done something to them.
And so the pressure and the weight ofthat responsibility on children is heavy.

mm

may cause, that may add another layer to
that space of not communicatingverbally and not saying anything.
And so it's really importantthat other forms of communication
is allowed and and invited.
But it's also important that we as parentscommunicate our intent to protect, but
also our intent to not put ourselvesin danger, if that makes any sense.

(25:25):
Cuz children do take on that respons.
A lot of children don't speak about theirsexual trauma or their sexual assault
or sexual abuse as children for fear of

Mm-hmm.

fear of

they may have heard you respond to someone,
a situation on the news.
They may have heard you, you know, react,you know, well, if that ever happened to

That's right.
I'll kill him.

Mm-hmm.
Exactly.

Exactly, and they are, they are listening and I, you know, we
can't censor every second and that kindof thing, but if you hear yourself say
something like that and you catch it, youcan always go back and say, you know what?
You know, we were listening to the newsand all that horrible stuff that was
happening or is happening with so-and-so,and I said this and I want you to know.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I thought about that and, and how that might
have, how that might have sounded.
The, the child may not sayanything, but you're following
up to, to clarify your message.
And even if, even if, let's sayyou, you do all the wrong things.

Mm-hmm.

they tell you and you don't stop the car and you
say, that couldn't have happened.
If some of

all the questions you

If you ask all, if you interrogate
as soon as you can turn it around.
You know what?
I reacted and I didn't listen to you.

mm

And you know what?
Let, can we try that again and maybenot write the, you may not be ready
right this second and if you don't trustme, I understand cuz I res, I reacted.

mm

But if you, if you find it or if you're able to give me a second
chance whenever you're ready, I'm.

Hmm.

That

the elephant in the room because we're not perfect, right?
Like we're human.
Our reactions are goingto be human reactions.
And so there's nothing wrong withgoing back and saying, I often say
things like, um, okay, wait a minute.
I wasn't prepared for that.
So, Let me process itfor just two seconds.
Okay, now let's

Hmm.

like, like the elephant in the room is I'm human and my reaction
is initially, but now I'm listening.
Now I'm paying attention.
And so I love that idea ofI get to go back and say,
this was my initial reaction.
I may not have allowed youthe opportunity to speak.
I may not have, you know, givenyou my full attention in that.
Let me redo that so that you nowhave my full attention, and if you

(27:52):
do wanna come back, we can have thisconversation that kind of, vulnerability
on, on our part as the adults

Mm-hmm.

helps the kid understand that, okay, it's not
gonna be a perfect situation, butyou know, mom and dad, cousin,
auntie, whoever is going to be there.

Yeah.
And, and about vulnerability.
I think people often hesitatebecause they don't wanna do
the wrong thing, but even thathesitation can imply something else.
They may not know that you're justfiguring it out in your head, but
putting it out there that, like, Idon't know what to do right now, and I'm
just thinking about this for a minute.

(28:28):
That's so helpful.
Like that's a, a script that I alsowanna put into my, you know, the litany
of things that I'm trying to remember to

Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

Something we haven't touched on, and you know, I've been
using this word a lot, but like theculture in the home, you know, people
ask, what can we do to prevent?
And so there's.
There's a couple things there.
One is we can't keep otherpeople from acting in ways
they've already decided to act.

(28:58):
Those are two different thingswe can, we can do whatever
we can to set things up well,

Mm-hmm.

that is their decision in all of the shootings and crimes
and hate that we've been watching.
You probably most even a childwould say, that's not the fault
of the people who were in the

Mm-hmm.

recently.

Mm-hmm.

That's not the fault of the driver

Right.

who maybe accidentally cut the person off.
It's, it's that person's decision.
And we can't always control that decision,and so we have to separate out the two.
A lot of times people take ownership andblame in order to try to get control back.
Well, if I could have prevented it,then X, y, Z wouldn't have happened.

(29:54):
And it's understandable to try tograb the control back in that way.
It's, it's understandable.
It, the math just doesn't work.

Mm.

At all.
One plus one is two, not three.

Uh,

You know, you, you can't take somebody else's
decision and put it on yourself.
Even if they put it on you,

Mm-hmm.

even if they tell you it's your fault, it doesn't make it your fault.

mm.

So, so the, that's an, that's an a crucial piece, you know,
and we, we hear that on, on the therapy.
Often in, in the mirror, probably often as

Often.
Mm-hmm.

so the other piece is if there was a prevention
type of thing, it is to instillself-worth, self-value, love of self.

Mm-hmm.

And because when we don't have that, it is a beacon.
A lot of times it's a, you know,I, I call it the marquee that rolls
across our forehead and neon letters.
It's, you know, I don'thave good boundaries.
there are messages and a lot oftimes those messages are there

(31:10):
because someone gave them to a childand the child just took them cuz
they didn't know what else to do.

Mm.

They just took that in because nobody else
was saying, nobody was saying.

Dr. SaDohl Jones: Anything opposite of that. (31:22):
undefined

Mm mm.

And so self value and catching things, catching red
flags, you know, again, all of thatshouldn't be on us to do, except
that we tend to naturally do some ofthose things when we value ourselves.
And again, I'm not putting the onus onus valuing ourselves always on us because

(31:48):
you know, many times the people whoraised us did not instill that and did the

Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

And so we have to catch it.
And so any of those pieces of I'm notworthy or I don't love myself, or I don't
trust myself, we have to go after it.
Like it's a, a disease and, andfind, find the antidote so to speak,
the antidote being hopefully love,hopefully some good things even

(32:17):
from a pet, you know, or, or natureor, um, that's a whole episode.

Yeah, I think that's a really good point though, that space
of understanding the family culture andhow we set up the culture in our home
for our children and how they communicateand what our dynamics are going to be.
I oftentimes say that when a childis assaulted, there's usually a door.

(32:45):
there's something to be saidabout, doors and windows.
I always say there's doors andwindows for each kid, right?
And so sometimes doors are openthat invite unwanted things.

Hmm

That's not the fault of the kid, that's not
the fault of the parent, right?
If someone, like Claire said,if someone's going to do
something that was already there.
I liken that to the space of ifUncle Charlie was already doing that,
uncle Charlie's going to do that.
Has nothing to do with SarahSue being whoever, Sarah Sue.
Those things don't correlate, right?

(33:20):
Because oftentimes we say,well, what were you doing?
How were you interacting?
Or, you know, you can'tdo this or, and I don.
As a sexual trauma specialist, um,as a woman and as a mother of a
daughter, I don't like to have thatconversation about what you should not
do to prevent someone else's behavior,

Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

then that means you are now responsible
for someone else's behavior.
And that's not accurate.

So not healthy.
Right,

It's not healthy to, to have that kind of responsibility of
someone else's, um, behavior or feelings.
Right?
And so that conversation about,awareness of self, but also the fact
that victim blaming victim shaming,it's not you, it's Uncle Charlie.
Uncle Charlie is who he is.
He's going to do that, whether it'syou or whether it's the cousin next

(34:08):
door or the girl down the street,or the boy across the street.
That's going to happen regardless.
And I think having that conversationand allowing, um, children to
understand that is really important.

And how do we catch that and shut that down

And mm-hmm.
And that's where that space over,you mentioned it earlier, Claire,
you don't have to hug everybody.
You don't have to go hang out with someonethat you don't wanna hang out with.
there's an instinct that happenswith kids that if it's shut down,
then it's extinguished, right?
Like, if I have an instinct asa kid that I don't necessarily
wanna go hang out with that adult.
I don't really know why I don't wannahang out with that adult, but I don't

(34:46):
really wanna go hang out with that adult.
But if it's extinguished bysaying, don't act like that.
Don't be like they're just trying tohave, you know, some time with you.
Well, now you've extinguished my instinct
and you've extinguished and myintuition, and now I don't trust it
because you are the adult that I trust.
Right.

Right.

And you've just told me to now don't pay attention to
that thing that's bubbling up in me.
The hairs that are standing up on theback of my neck, the goosebumps, you've
just told me not to pay attention to that,but to listen to someone else external.

Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

I'm not listening to myself when things are happening, right?

right.

I have a friend, I was telling Claire this story about my, uh, a
friend of mine, his daughter is two yearsold, and he was having a bad day and he
said, you know, can you give daddy a hug?
And she said No.
And he said, All right, no problem.
And he said, you know, daddy sad.
She was like, mm-hmm.

(35:44):
And she said, he said, do, doesit look like daddy needs a hug?
She said, mm-hmm.
And he said, you still don'twanna give daddy a hug?
She said, Nope.
He said, absolutely, you, youdon't have to give me a hug.
And that's her father.

Yeah, that's

But that autonomy of you don't have to just because it's me.

Right,

who it is.
If you don't want to in this moment,for whatever reason, it's okay.
And teaching her that even at two,that my, sense of self is important.
Whatever that looks like.

Yeah,

And so that's how we do that space of like prevention.
It's teaching early.
It's how, what's that culturein our household of, you know, I
can close my door if I need to.
I can have some privacy if I need to.
Like those little things.
Tell our kids that their, meter is ok..

Mm-hmm.
Now, what would you suggest for,for parents that maybe have not had
early conversations or, maybe can seethemselves in some of these don'ts,
uh, and they have older kids now, isall lost or are there ways to kind
of re reengage that intuition and,

If you have a 40 year old, it's not too late!

Mm.

Absolutely.
I don't think it's ever too late.
You can still have that conversation whereit is, you know you can say anything,
you can talk to me about anything.
Um, is there anything that you wanna talkto me about having that conversation?
Just leaving the

Anything might look like X, Y, Z, even giving examples.

Examples of what that conversation is and also when they do
have those, uh, conversations that we'reuncomfortable with, checking our own
feelings and our own biases about what wethink they should be doing at 17 and 18.
And also what we were doingwhen we were 17 and 18.

Mm-hmm.

And not allowing our traumas and our triggers to
be their narrow responsibility.
Because oftentimes we parentbased on our experiences, right?
Whether good or bad, we either do theabsolute opposite of what we experienced,
or we do exactly like what we experienced.

Right,

And because of that, we sometimes, um, transfer our
trauma and our triggers onto our kids.
And that can be where theconversation shuts down.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

are saying, when we're parenting based on our
fear of what we think is goingto happen to them or with them.
Um, and so no, there's no time that'stoo late to have a conversation.
, um, or even wanting to open thedoor, like go back and say you.
I remember when you were younger,you know, X, Y, and Z, and we never
really talked about it, and I'mwondering if that's something that

(38:24):
we should have talked about orsomething that we can talk about now.
Um, you know, I'm learning more about X,Y, and Z, or I'm maturing in a way or my
enlightenment is different now than itwas when I was a parent to you as a kid.
And so I have a better understandingof certain things and I'm
wondering if I missed something.
And if I did, if it's somethingthat you wanna share, that's a

(38:44):
conversation that can, that youcan have at any stage, at any age.
Um, and it really does impact your kid.
Hearing that from a parent, like,I may have missed something.
And it's not because Iintentionally wanted to miss it.
I just didn't really knowhow to respond to that.
I didn't really know how to react to that.
Um, I have a little bit more wherewithalnow and I'm wondering if that's a

(39:04):
conversation that you're even open to.

Or I handled that horribly.
I have parents who tell me thestories of what they, what they did,
and, and are, are tortured by it.

Mm-hmm.

Because they had the reactions and then things got
covered over and then time passedand you know, life kept moving and
you know, but that circle back is

So important.
It's so important.

I have tears and chills right now it just,
it feels so healing and it's so,reassuring to hear from both of you.
It, it's never too late.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Um, you know, something that came up, a question
that came up, and it might be a littlebit of a departure, but in holding
space for our kids and honoring howthey want to process and the timing
of their disclosure and, um, emotions,you know, what happens if your child

(40:06):
did experience sexual assault or sexualabuse, but they don't want anyone
to find out besides you, the parent.
At what point , is there a point whereyou know you have to go against your kids'
instincts or wishes to keep it private.

It's so hard.

I will say it's very difficult because again, we
wanna protect our kids, but I thinkthere's something to be said about
honoring their feelings in the moment.
Um, and I think there's something tobe said about, explaining things to
them when it's appropriate, right?
Like, so initially that may bewhere they say, don't tell anybody.
I don't want anyone else to know.

(40:45):
I just, I just wanna share.
And in that moment, that'swhere we need to be.

Mm-hmm.

And there will be.
Right, right.
Exactly.
I was gonna say, not promising,I'll never say anything because
at some point you want to have aconversation with the, with your child
or with the kid about, empowerment.
Right.
Taking back their voice.
Right.
Being empowered To advocatefor themselves in a way, right?
And that conversation inthat developmental space

(41:11):
that's appropriate for them.
But that's kind of the gist of it.
And I think that maybe at somepoint they do want to do something.

Mm-hmm.

They do want to tell someone else.
They do want to make a report.
They do want to seek justice in someway, and it may be where they don't
wanna seek justice but they will becomeless ashamed because really that,
that comes from a space of shame.
Don't tell anyone.
Don't tell anyone.
That's a, that's a shame space, right?
And so teaching them and helping themkind of navigate out of that space of

(41:41):
shame and be more empowered with theirexperience and help them, whether that
be through therapy or whatever thatlooks like for them, so that they can
then be able to have a conversation.

Hmm.

About what their experience has been.
I agree with Claire not making anypromises that I'll never say anything.
Now am I gonna go, you know,tell it to the family reunion?
No, I'm not telling itto the family reunion.
Um, it's not something thatis for everyone to know,
because here's the thing.
As we talked about earlier in thisconversation, there's something to
be said about the sharing of thisexperience and the courage that

(42:18):
that takes for that to be verbalized.
And can you imagine that it'salso something that they may be
afraid that if everyone knowshow are they gonna look at me?

Right, right.

Can you imagine that?
It took me everything I had to tell you.
And if I think everybody else inthe family knows, oh God, I'll die.
Like I literally, it will be too much.
So I think there's something to be saidabout, no, I'm not gonna promise that.
I'll never say anything ever inlife, but I can promise you this.
I'll respect your space.

mm.

Or we do it together.

Or, yeah.
Or if, if, mm-hmm.

I would say be careful to, as a parent, go to a professional
as soon as you can for yourself.
Getting your child help is certainlygood too, but they will also be able to
help you navigate some of those things.
I mean, we are mandated reportersand there may be some things there,

(43:14):
but, that's a different tangent.
Um, but you know, you may feel like it'syour job to tell the other parent whether
you're married to them or not, you mayfeel like the other parent should know.
And that's really probably the,the child's role too, um, is to
decide when and how that happens.
Whether you assist, that'ssomething, or whether you enlist

(43:39):
a professional and you all gotogether and that's where they share.
So there's a little bit more boundariedspace and those types of things.
Um, there are somedifferent avenues to take.
Um, Dr.
Sadohl and I will be sharing withyou, Cat, a few resources that
you can put with the informationthat goes with this episode.

(44:00):
Um, but even parents going throughmandated reporter training,

Mm-hmm.
Mm.

a, , proactive step to know what those processes are.
Um, and, there are lawyersthat specialize in this area.
Um, I would go check, check Facebookgroups and things like that for support.
I'm not gonna recommend a particularone necessarily, but there
are some good resources there.

, Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (44:26):
Dr.
Sadohl, what you were saying aboutholding space versus reacting
to it or publicizing it.
I think, , there's this an innatedesire to wanna fix fast as a parent
and, and pacing it and not closingthe door on disclosure at a later point
in time, but approaching things in aincremental fashion . And that relates

(44:46):
to, I think, Claire, what you were sayingas well about , not necessarily sharing
with your, your partner in parenting,and that being a decision of your kid.
I, I don't know if I would'vethought of that, cuz I
instinctively share everything.

Yeah.
Especially as it relatesto the kids, right?
Like you share everythingas it relates to the kids.
Uh, there's some thingsthat you want to hold.

do either of you have a parting
thought or sentiment that you'dlike to share with the listeners?

Okay, I have one.
It's strong, so I'm gonna take a beat,
but this is something that cameup for me last year sometime.
Um I don't know.
I don't know why it came sostrong, but it was, it felt timely.
And it's not an affirmation and it's not,it's not like the warm and fuzzy, but I,

(45:42):
you know what I'm gonna say, don't you?
Um, there is something that Ithink is super important, so
I'm, I'm just gonna say it.
You cannot lose your virginity by assault.
Sex and sexual assault are very different
things.

Mm,

They are worlds apart from each other.

Yeah, that's good.
I don't have another one.
, I'm gonna take Claire's.
That's perfect.

It's, it's fantastic and, and honestly,
I had not heard that before,

Mm-hmm.

Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: makes complete sense, (46:15):
undefined

Many of us right?
Many of us haven't heard that.
Mm-hmm.

That idea.
I hear reverberated in people.
, that , those are very different things.
And if you have Been throughsexual assault, been through
sexual abuse, the sex is different.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And many people haven't heardthat, just like you said.
And that has its own connotation, right?
So that encouragement and thatempowerment, um, that releases a lot.
I'll say that.
It releases a lot.
I am so incredibly grateful for thisconversation with Claire and Dr.

(46:56):
Sadohl and I hope you tookas much from it as I did.
I usually do a shortlist oftakeaways from each episode.
But since this one was so good andlonger than usual, my list is longer too.
But don't worry aboutremembering everything.
There are transcripts on thewebsite @knowberaisethem.com.
And I will be making these intocarousels on Instagram, @knowberaisethem.

(47:22):
You can also connect with Dr.
SaDohl and Claire on Instagram and TikTOK @resettraumaunstuck, With no spaces.
And find the freak out free podcaston your favorite podcasting platform.
These links are all inthe show notes as well.
So please visit there toaccess all of that goodness.

(47:46):
Here are my key takeaways.
Number one.
Be proactive in creating safe, judgment,free spaces on a day-to-day basis.
When you're willing to listen and nurtureyour daughters with small things, your
daughters will feel more comfortablespeaking to you about big things.
Number two.
If there is a prevention type oftactic, it is to instill self-worth.

(48:10):
Self value and self-love.
Because when a child doesn'thave that, it is a beacon.
If there's evidence of I'm notworthy or I don't love myself.
Myself or I don't trust myself.
We as parents have to address it.
Number three.
Remind your kids that we can't keepother people from acting in ways they've
already decided to act that is on them.

(48:34):
We can't take responsibilityfor somebody else's decision.
Girls and women are not responsible forboys and men's behavior and vice versa.
Number four.
Think about how you're settingyour kids expectations.
If we say if someone does something toyou, I will blank, blank, blank, blank.

(48:54):
Your child may not share with youbecause they're afraid of what you
may do and what that could lead to.
Number five.
Stop everything.
If your child is sharing theirexperience of sexual trauma.
It's likely that this sharingwill come at a very random moment.
But be sure to go intoa space of listening.

(49:15):
Control your anger questioningor desire to take action.
What we feel is best for us in the momentmight silence the communication and
impact your relationship with your child.
Number six.
Only share your child's experiencewith others when your child is
ready and with their permission.
Number seven when you get to a privatespace, as soon as you can write

(49:40):
everything down that you've been told.
Write down where you were, what was said?
The, who, what, where, when,why and how of the situation.
Start the record because you may need it.
Number eight.
It's never too late to re-engageand have conversations and say the
things you wish you had said earlier.

(50:01):
Or apologize for howyou handled something.
You can say, you know, I reacted thisway and I may not have allowed you to
speak or given you my full attention.
I'd love a redo.
That kind of vulnerability, nomatter when it comes up will
have a huge impact on your child.
And number nine.
Tell your daughter that you can'tlose your virginity by assault.

(50:24):
Consensual sex and sexual assaultare very different things.
When Claire said this, I wasbowled over to be honest.
It's so obvious and so empowering to makeconsent part of the equation of virginity.
I think it's so importantfor people to know.
If you or someone, you know,has been sexually assaulted.

(50:45):
Help is available.
As noted earlier, you can checkout rain, R a I N n.org for
more resources and information.
And Claire and Dr.
SaDohl also recommend Saprea anorganization devoted to fighting sexual
abuse and its lasting impacts throughhealing and prevention services.
They can be found at saprea.org.

(51:17):
Thanks for listening today and being thecommitted intentional parent that you are.
If you enjoy the podcast pleasefollow, tell a friend and leave a
review on apple podcasts or Spotify.
If you haven't already.
Also as a listener, I'd like to inviteyou to be one of the founding members
of the rise and raise collective.

(51:39):
It's a mastermind I'm starting of mindfulgrowth oriented girl moms who want to grow
as individuals and parent with intention.
Now, when I say mastermind, this doesnot mean you have to be an expert.
I am not an expert by any stretch.
It's really a sense of curiosityand commitment to personal
development and growth that qualifiessomeone to be part of this.

(52:04):
My vision is to provide a safeand celebratory space to learn,
grow and connect with othermoms of tween and teen girls.
We can share stories, ask questions,cheer each other on and get
advice from other people who areon the same journey as you are.
So in terms of what to expect, Ienvision virtual gatherings with other

(52:27):
moms in a casual way and yet intimate.
Like a sharing circle where momscan ask questions and tap into the
wisdom of the hive if you will.
Monthly group coaching sessions, wherewe can discuss mindset, positivity.
Setting boundaries, working towards goals.

(52:47):
Tiny habits.
All these different things that we coulddo to potentially improve ourselves, but
it could help to have some accountabilityand information to nudge us along.
And then virtual events with experts,moms who've been there, the types of
guests that are on the podcast, but havea chance to ask questions and learn.

(53:09):
If you're interested, shoot me a directmessage on Instagram @knowberaisethem
visit the website knowberaisethem.comand you can send me an email from there.
Or head to the show notes.
I will have my email there as well.
Thanks again for listening.
And here's to strong women.
May we know them, may we bethem, and may we raise them.

All Episodes

Our Kids & Sexual Assault - How to Prevent, Respond & Support // with Claire & Dr. Sadohl

Guest Spotlight: Claire Horner and Dr. SaDohl Jones of RESET: Trauma Unstuck

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Our Kids & Sexual Assault - How to Prevent, Respond & Support // with Claire & Dr. Sadohl