June 20, 2023 • 23 mins
Remember getting your first period? Did you feel self conscious, confused, out-of-sorts…just like a lot of body changes around that time?
It’s time to flip puberty positive! In this episode, Konika Ray Wong chats with host Carmelita (Cat) Tiu about puberty, all the awkwardness that comes with it, and how to help our daughters change the scripts around puberty and feel empowered as they navigate the transformation that happens throughout their tweens and teens, even into their 20’s.
Listen to hear:
- Swaps to flip puberty positive
- The importance of separating puberty from sexual maturity
- How puberty is a privilege
- Why normalizing change is important
- And more!
Guest bio:
Konika Ray Wong is a science teacher and mom on a mission to flip puberty positive. She founded GPS with her daughter during the pandemic when it was obvious the world needed more girl power and science education!
For over two decades, Konika has been a kindergarten through sixth grade science educator. She has a Masters in Education and California teaching credential from the University of San Francisco and a Bachelor of Science in Biology from Virginia Polytechnic University. A Common Sense Media certified educator who also attended the Institute for Social and Emotional Learning, she is passionate about body literacy, destigmatizing puberty, and building communities of empowered learners that confidently celebrate growth.
She recently published her first children’s book, "One in a Million - A First Book About Periods". Imagine a world where every little girl felt strong and confident in her body and every child with a uterus celebrated their superpowers. This empowering book, a guided story for kids ages four and up to read with a grownup, is the first step in that direction. In "One in a Million," children meet a cute uterus character that takes them on a journey that demystifies the process of ovulation and the menstrual cycle. The kid-friendly characters and simple scientifically accurate text set a positive tone about periods without shame or stigma.
Connect with Konika:
- Website: www.girlpowerscience.com
- Instagram: @girlpowerscience
- Buy her book, "One in a Million - A First Book About Periods" on Amazon
About Your Host, Carmelita / Cat / Millie Tiu
Mom, spouse, coach, podcaster, wordsmith, legal eagle. Endlessly curious about how we can show up better for ourselves – because when we do that, we also show up better for our kids and those around us. Visit carmelitatiu.com to learn more about Cat, and for info on 1:1 coaching, the mom collective, and her monthly newsletter.
Know Them, Be Them, Raise Them
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (00:00):
I think if everyone sits with an attitude
of gratitude that our bodies arehealthy, that puberty is a privilege.
Aging, maturing, our bodies growing.
It's a privilege, and that if ourbodies are doing what they are meant
to be doing, then we're grateful
(00:21):
Hi, everyone.
And welcome to know them.
Be them, raise them a show to helpbusy, mindful growth oriented moms stay
informed and inspired as they navigatetheir daughters, tween and teen years.
I'm your host Carmelita to joinme on the regular four episodes
about everything under the sunthat might matter to moms like us.
(00:44):
In today's episode.
I chat with Konika Ray Wong.
She is a science teacher and a mom ona mission to flip puberty positive.
How amazing is that?
She founded girl power science withher daughter during the pandemic,
when it was obvious, the world neededmore girl power and science education.
For over two decades Konika has been akindergarten through sixth grade educator.
(01:07):
She has a master's in education andCalifornia teaching credential from
the university of San Francisco andbachelor of science in biology from
Virginia Polytechnic university.
She's also a common sense media certifiededucator, which if you're like me,
you check out common sense prettyoften when you're trying to tell if
a book or a movie is appropriate.
(01:27):
And She's passionate about body literacy,de-stigmatizing puberty and building
communities of empowered learnersthat confidently celebrate growth.
She recently published her firstchildren's book "One in a Million,
a First Book About Periods."
This empowering book, which is a guidedstory for kids ages four and up to read
(01:48):
with a grown-up is a first step towardshelping every little girl feel strong
and confident in her body and every childwith a uterus celebrate their superpowers.
In "One in a Million" children meet acute uterus character that takes them on
a journey that demystifies the processof ovulation and the menstrual cycle.
The kid friendly characters andsimple, scientifically accurate
(02:11):
text set a positive tone aboutperiods without shame or stigma.
Here is our amazing conversation.
It's quick.
It's fun.
And I hope you feel as inspiredas I did after listening to it.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (02:28):
Welcome Konika.
I am so excited to have you here today.
I think the work that you're doing issuper important as a mom of two girls
and, you know, knowing their friends,knowing the spaces that they navigate.
Uh, this topic is just so timelessand I'm, I'm glad that you're here
today to share a little bit with us.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS: Thanks for having me. (02:49):
undefined
My pleasure.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (02:51):
So, why don't we kick things off with you telling us
a little bit about yourself and whatled you to write your recent book.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (02:58):
Yes, so I'm a science teacher and a mom.
I've been teaching science toelementary kids, kindergarten
through fourth grade for two decades.
So really long time.
And, I am really passionate aboutflipping puberty positive because
my experience was just so negative.
And then, you know, when I began teachingmy own students, um, I passionately
(03:21):
wanted it to be different for them.
And the more I dived in, it wasvery healing for me as well.
Supporting kids and parentsaround, you know, flipping this
narrative positive, has really just.
Raise my confidence along in the journey.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (03:36):
Mm.
Something that came up as you weresharing, this was a very recent
conversation I had with a colleaguewho kind of shared with me almost in
an embarrassed way that her daughterJust got her period and how she didn't
know what to tell her because shedidn't grow up being taught that , she
wasn't exposed to sort of a healthyway to navigate this situation.
(03:58):
So we commiserated and collaborated andI gave her some hopefully helpful tips.
But yes, I think this idea of reframingthe puberty narrative, as you say
is key, and needs such a shift.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (04:12):
And as an Asian American, um, the narrative in my head
was I just thought it was an Asian thing.
And now that I'm really workinginternationally with different
parents, I realize it's universal.
So yeah, that has been healing.
I.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (04:29):
Now, what would you, what would you advise
people like as a starting point?
How can parents do that?
How can we reframe this narrative?
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (04:38):
Yeah, so I think probably the first place to start,
uh, so many parents approach me andsay they feel ill-equipped because
they had no education around puberty.
Their families didn't talk aboutit, so in a dream world, I would
actually love to replace the wordpuberty, uh, with something different.
Just, you know, language matters and justthe word is triggering not only for, you
(05:02):
know, the grownups in the room, but thekids, you know, uh, I just say that word
and, uh, and there's giggles, there's, youknow, flushed faces, embarrassment, shame.
So I would love to replaceit with celebrate growth.
You know, parents say theysigned up for this, their child
(05:22):
for this puberty workshop.
What should they tell them?
And just let's first begin by, byreplacing it by celebrating growth.
The second thing is, let'sseparate it from sexual maturity.
puberty is starting, modern pubertyis starting as early as age seven.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (05:44):
Mm-hmm.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (05:45):
And you know, when we use that old school
language that she's becoming a woman,
not relevant at age seven, and itcan be depressing for both parents
to think that their seven yearold is becoming quote unquote a
woman, and for that child as well.
(06:06):
You know, they'reenjoying their childhood.
And, there are some kids that have gottenreally emotional about having to come
to one of my puberty workshops and in abeautiful way the parents have broken down
and asked them, you know, what is goingon and they're not ready to grow up yet.
It's as simple as that.
Like we've placed this whole , um,narrative around what they
might be feeling that's morecomplex, but it's really as
(06:29):
simple as they're still children.
So I think starting from that place that,this isn't, um, sexual maturity per se.
I know the scientific definition,but a lot of things need to change,
you know, and those definitionshave been around for ages.
Um, so I just see itas celebrating growth.
And then the second piece is, Comingfrom a place of having an attitude of
(06:51):
gratitude that our bodies are healthy,
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (06:54):
Hmm.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (06:55):
working, you know, in this post pandemic era.
I think if everyone sits withthat or starts with that,
that puberty is a privilege.
Aging, maturing, our bodies growing.
It's a p a privilege, and thatif our bodies are doing what they
are meant to be doing, then we'regrateful that we are healthy.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (07:16):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
There are so many reframes and,uh, perspective shifts in what you
just shared that resonated with me.
I think first, sort of coming up with adifferent definition for puberty or having
this, vocabulary swap, if you will, tocelebrating growth does feel so important.
It reminds me a little bit of how.
(07:38):
I mean, it's sort of relatedto how many body positivity.
Um, experts and coaches and therapistsare trying to help people understand
that the word fat shouldn't be loadedwith this negative connotation.
It's just this non.
Good.
Not bad.
Just a thing.
And similarly, you're right, I thinkpuberty has really taken on this
(07:59):
negative connotation that makes peoplefeel squeamish and uncomfortable and
giggly and awkward, like you said.
So really planting these seeds in ourkids that it's nothing to be afraid of.
It's nothing to, um, tease someoneelse about or feels shame around.
It's really just celebratinggrowth that feels like a huge.
(08:20):
Huge perspective shift that I love.
And it's easy, like when your kids saythe word puberty and you can sense that
there's discomfort around it, helpingto sort of say, yeah, I noticed this.
Um, curious where this came from.
And it's actually a celebrationof growth- that feels super
powerful and, uh, actionable.
(08:41):
So I had to get that out there.
Love that.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (08:44):
Yes, it's, I mean, I think that that parallel to fat, you
know, it's about that neutrality andit's about being really scientific.
So, instead of this laundry listwhere we've put a negative spin on,
you know, whether it's pimples ormood swings, um, we can very neutrally
describe each of the changes in a waythat this is what healthy bodies do.
(09:06):
And I have positive spins forevery single one of the changes.
And I like to start, instead of the oldtraditional paradigm of mood swings,
well it is actually mood swings, butit's a spin on it, which is just the
brain remodel, the growth mindset.
Um, and you know, just thisidea that, you know, our brains,
(09:29):
Are shifting in powerful ways.
Another replacement wordis just a transformation.
You're in an exci.
You know, I tell them that theyare in their bodies are in a very
exciting stage of transformation.
I also like to normalize it as just onemore stage of growth instead of like
magnifying this one area, you know,the brain remodel can start as early
(09:53):
as age seven and, and it ends at 25.
So so I tell them, you know,they've lost teeth and the way
their body looked and functioned,has changed, but we celebrated it.
Some have the tooth fairy, other peoplehave different traditions, and, and
similarly, if we can just make thisa smooth path and not all of a sudden
emphasize this as this different thing.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (10:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I also love what you touchedon with this connotation that,
menstruation means you're a woman.
Um, as if, I don't know, the, theimplication is that somehow this
individual is now ready to be in thisspace of maturity and, there's a odd
unspoken link to being able to getpregnant and childbearing with womanhood.
(10:38):
And so, I just kind of love distancingand not using that phraseology,
uh, because I've always thoughtthat doesn't sit quite right.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (10:49):
Yes.
And so many of the cycle trackingapps go right into fertility.
Um, you know, to your point,and that's why I wrote the
book in the way that I did.
Just in teaching my students, I.
The narrative that I wanted.
So actually, another I guesspiece of advice in terms of
reframing is it's not one big talk.
These are all small plantingseeds all along the way.
(11:12):
And, it's been really fun to getfeedback about the book and so
many people say the simplicityreally resonates, how short it is.
You know, my teaching style as a scienceteacher and as a parent, you know, I have
a daughter that's 12 years old, is toplant those little seeds and then allow
their curiosity to guide where we go next.
You know, kids are gonna, andhumans in general, tune us
(11:33):
out at, at a certain point.
We all know you get like maybe about threeminutes, you know, and, and so just that
idea to keep it simple, keep it short.
And then, we don't know in termsof in the brain remodel, um, where
they are until we allow theirquestions to come to the forefront.
And they're also so, so muchmore interested when it's their
(11:54):
questions getting answered.
So it's not one big talk.
And ideally, these are teachablemoments when, you know, when a child
sees a tampon in your purse and maybethey're two or three years old, the
tone of our voice, you know, andit can make such a big difference.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (12:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's important, to remind moms ofthat, the ways that we, in those small
moments throughout their lives, talk aboutour periods or don't talk about them,
like the, the lack of conversation at all.
That in itself says something about thistopic, and I, that was kind of a aha
moment for me when my girls were littler.
(12:31):
I was very used to hiding the tamponsand you know, not mentioning when
I was having hormonal fluctuations.
And then I realized I.
What is this sending them?
It's telling them that this is taboo.
Is it telling them that I'muncomfortable talking about it and
they're learning that they shouldbe uncomfortable talking about it?
So yeah, we, we've had a lot ofdiscussions, and even though I've
(12:54):
had many discussions, I am excitedto introduce them to the reframes
that you present in your book andyour workshops, cuz it's they sound
com super compelling and helpful.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (13:03):
Yeah, I recently had a parent say that, her daughter came home
after our workshop and she was so excited.
Um, there was a family gathering andthey asked, what was your workshop about?
She said, periods in a veryneutral, excited, almost tone,
and there was silence in the room.
And the mom said she too didn't knowwhat to do with that silence, so she
(13:24):
changed the subject to the weatherand you know, we normalized the topic
in our workshop and within this drivehome and, and entering her home space,
she's getting a whole different message.
And that's confusing for kids tonavigate that, you know, here we are
comfortable about celebrating growth andour bodies being healthy and this one
space, and now this word was powerfulenough to silence a room and have her
(13:49):
mom change the subject to the weather.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (13:51):
Gosh, I could completely see myself or some,
you know, friends of mine in that kindof situation where you're these, these
generational contexts and differencesand not knowing how to talk about it.
It's great that your daughters have, anewfound excitement, but being prepared
to as an adult, kind of back them up onthat, um, makes, is important as well.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (14:12):
Yes, yes.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Another thing you mentioned which (14:13):
undefined
I hadn't thought about, but theidea that puberty is a privilege.
It's, um, I think so often , I'll havethese glimpses into the world that my
daughters navigate and how it just,it's just our normal, but as compared
to a broader scale of the world and,you know, global challenges, uh, I, I
(14:36):
feel so grateful and blessed that weare somewhere where nutritious food is
accessible, where they're able to movefreely, where, um, they have options
in terms of what they can do with theirbodies and how they can get out there.
And so all of.
All of that put in this phrase of pubertyis a privilege that, that's so impactful.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (14:58):
Yes.
And you know, I think what may bethe parallel to that is that so many
of the parents I'm working with aregoing through perimenopause, and
that's another mysterious area wherewe, there's very minimal research
on women's health in this area.
You know, I'm friends with, manydoctors that say that their training
didn't really include, um, That topicsimilarly, aging is a privilege.
(15:21):
We can even broaden it frompuberty being a privilege to aging.
Uh, you know, the fact that we'vegotten this far and we're healthy,
you know, is really a luxury.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (15:30):
yeah.
And the idea ofnormalizing transformation.
The idea that they are goingthrough a transformation in
this seven to 25 age range.
Um, hopefully also plants seeds that ourbodies will always change and evolve.
And this is just part of it.
Like, I like to think that my daughters,they remember when they were three and
(15:52):
four, they look at their baby picturesand all that stuff, and so they can see
that evolution and not expect it to stopwhen they become an quote unquote adult.
Um, I think that's another.
Like in celebrating bodilytransformation in a general sense.
I like to think that that's alsoencouraging them to be open to the
ways that our bodies change as weage, as we, maybe in our forties
(16:16):
we look or feel different than wedid in our twenties, and helping
to feel, make that feel normal too.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (16:21):
Yes.
And even before puberty, like Isaid, with the teeth falling out,
like it's a whole cycle, right?
It's a cycle that continues.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I, I mean, I thinkthat that's a, a really good point.
Um,
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (16:37):
Even kind of encouraging this idea of reframes
around a phrase or a time of life thathas been seen in a negative light.
Allowing them that will make it easierfor them to approach perimenopause,
which I think I am myself, dealingwith, uh, in mysterious ways.
But yeah, it, it makes them feel moreopen to those changes and not see
(16:58):
menopause as this negative thing,which it also has a connotation of.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (17:03):
Yep.
And it also, it smoothly transitions intopositive body image and body literacy.
Um, so, you know, it's just thisreframe is pretty powerful in
terms of, uh, a lot of levels.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (17:18):
I love it.
All right, so I would love for youto kind of give us a few takeaways
that if the listeners are going toremember anything from this discussion,
what would you like them to remember?
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (17:32):
Well, I love that we really, I did a deep
dive on puberty as a privilege.
I think, that attitude of gratitude,that our bodies are healthy.
Um, and then if we start this discussionabout this transformation with the growth
mindset and the brain remodel, thenremembering that we can, we can do hard
things and that practice makes progresswhen we think about, just in terms
(17:56):
of, you know, our neurological growth.
The more we practice.
And we have been, like you said,I mean from our bodies have been
changing from before we were evenborn and they will continue to change
throughout our entire lifetime.
And change can be stressful, but themore that we know knowledge is powerful.
(18:18):
Um, so the more we can get thatscientific knowledge to understand
that our bodies are healthy whenthey're going through all of these
changes, I think is really powerful.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (18:27):
Mm.
And do you have, a favorite quoteor affirmation you'd like to leave
with the listeners on this topic?
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (18:35):
I mean, I think so.
So listening to your body, I guess, youknow, body literacy is all about, like,
our bodies are like a compass and we justneed to learn how to read them, right?
And so whether we're talking about hungercues, Or even technology consumption.
How is, how are things making us feel?
(18:55):
So listen to your body.
It's something I say to my daughter,it's something I say to my students.
It's just this moment of likechecking in, of, you know,
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: That Yes, that is so important. (19:04):
undefined
For whatever reason, maybe itwas told to me, but I didn't
listen or it didn't sink in.
But I feel like I was a littlelate in life to, to tune into
some of those bodily cues.
You know, I would push, push, push, kindof override the tiredness, override
the stress, you know, manifestations toget things done or be hyper-productive
(19:26):
or kind of keep going, going.
But I, I love that idea of embracingit and encouraging our daughters to
embrace it at a young age, cuz thathopefully will allow them to navigate
situations and not get burnt out, notget overwhelmed, eat healthy, be active
and, yeah, just generally speaking,prep them for a higher baseline of,
(19:46):
contentment, health, all of those
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (19:48):
And it's all healing for us.
And it's a great excuse actuallyfor self-care because we are the
role models and they're watching us.
And as we are becoming workaholics,you know, I see my daughter you
know, mirroring what I, how I am.
So it's just great reminder thatthey're watching everything we're doing.
They're listening to everythingwe say, and that as we take care
(20:08):
of ourselves, that we're teachingthem to listen to their bodies
and take care of themselves too.
Uh, this chat with Konika kindof made me wish I was 10 and
didn't have my period yet.
So I could read this book andfeel differently from the get-go.
Here are my key takeaways.
Number one.
(20:29):
Put a positive spin on things.
If the word puberty makes yourkid feel uncomfortable, swap in
celebrating growth or transformation.
Another example is mood swings.
Instead of seeing it as a bad thing.
Remind them that it's asign of a brain remodel.
Number two.
Let's separate pubertyfrom sexual maturity.
(20:51):
Puberty can start as early asseven and phrases like she's
becoming a woman or you're a womannow when she gets her period.
Can make it more emotionallychallenging for both kids and parents
where there's likely a disconnectbetween those phrases and how those
kids and parents actually feel.
Number three.
(21:11):
Puberty is a privilege.
Foster an attitude of gratitudethat our bodies are healthy.
Change can be stressful,but we can do hard things.
Number four.
Normalize that our bodies are constantlychanging throughout our lives.
When our bodies change, this meansour bodies are healthy and doing
what they're supposed to be doing.
(21:32):
Whether we're talking about growing from ababy to a kid, to puberty or to menopause.
And number five, our bodiesare like a compass and we just
need to learn how to read them.
So whether we're talking about hungercues or technology consumption,
or even how we feel in a certainsituation or around people.
Listen to your body.
(21:53):
Notice how things make you feeland encourage your daughter
to trust those instincts.
To learn more about Konika, her book andworkshops visit Girl power science.com.
You can follow her on Instagram atgirl power science and of course
buy her book "One in a Million, aFirst Book About Periods" on Amazon.
(22:16):
These links are in the show notes as well.
Two final things.
One, if you like what you heard, pleasetell a friend, follow the podcast and
leave a review on apple or Spotify.
It's like Yelp or Google foryour favorite restaurants?
Um, it may not feel like much,but it does make a difference.
And thanks to all of those thathave left reviews in the past.
(22:37):
And secondly, remember to keepan eye out for more info about
the rise and raise collective.
Uh, community to support busy andmindful moms who want to raise
their daughters with intention.
And who know that also meansbecoming their best selves too,
since values are caught, not taught.
I'm working hard behind thescenes to put something together.
So if you're interested on in gettingon the wait list, uh, feel free
(23:00):
to DM me on Facebook or Instagram.
Or shoot me an email athello at carmelitatiu.com.
That's C a R M E L I T a t I U dot com.
Thanks so much for listening.
it really is a symbol of your commitmentto personal growth, as well as showing up
(23:20):
the best way you can for your daughterswhen you listened to this podcast.
So I am applauding you fromthe bottom of my heart.
And here's to strong women may we knowthem may we be them and may we raise them.
I think if everyone sits with an attitude
of gratitude that our bodies arehealthy, that puberty is a privilege.
Aging, maturing, our bodies growing.
It's a privilege, and that if ourbodies are doing what they are meant
to be doing, then we're grateful
(00:21):
Hi, everyone.
And welcome to know them.
Be them, raise them a show to helpbusy, mindful growth oriented moms stay
informed and inspired as they navigatetheir daughters, tween and teen years.
I'm your host Carmelita to joinme on the regular four episodes
about everything under the sunthat might matter to moms like us.
(00:44):
In today's episode.
I chat with Konika Ray Wong.
She is a science teacher and a mom ona mission to flip puberty positive.
How amazing is that?
She founded girl power science withher daughter during the pandemic,
when it was obvious, the world neededmore girl power and science education.
For over two decades Konika has been akindergarten through sixth grade educator.
(01:07):
She has a master's in education andCalifornia teaching credential from
the university of San Francisco andbachelor of science in biology from
Virginia Polytechnic university.
She's also a common sense media certifiededucator, which if you're like me,
you check out common sense prettyoften when you're trying to tell if
a book or a movie is appropriate.
(01:27):
And She's passionate about body literacy,de-stigmatizing puberty and building
communities of empowered learnersthat confidently celebrate growth.
She recently published her firstchildren's book "One in a Million,
a First Book About Periods."
This empowering book, which is a guidedstory for kids ages four and up to read
(01:48):
with a grown-up is a first step towardshelping every little girl feel strong
and confident in her body and every childwith a uterus celebrate their superpowers.
In "One in a Million" children meet acute uterus character that takes them on
a journey that demystifies the processof ovulation and the menstrual cycle.
The kid friendly characters andsimple, scientifically accurate
(02:11):
text set a positive tone aboutperiods without shame or stigma.
Here is our amazing conversation.
It's quick.
It's fun.
And I hope you feel as inspiredas I did after listening to it.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (02:28):
Welcome Konika.
I am so excited to have you here today.
I think the work that you're doing issuper important as a mom of two girls
and, you know, knowing their friends,knowing the spaces that they navigate.
Uh, this topic is just so timelessand I'm, I'm glad that you're here
today to share a little bit with us.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS: Thanks for having me. (02:49):
undefined
My pleasure.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (02:51):
So, why don't we kick things off with you telling us
a little bit about yourself and whatled you to write your recent book.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (02:58):
Yes, so I'm a science teacher and a mom.
I've been teaching science toelementary kids, kindergarten
through fourth grade for two decades.
So really long time.
And, I am really passionate aboutflipping puberty positive because
my experience was just so negative.
And then, you know, when I began teachingmy own students, um, I passionately
(03:21):
wanted it to be different for them.
And the more I dived in, it wasvery healing for me as well.
Supporting kids and parentsaround, you know, flipping this
narrative positive, has really just.
Raise my confidence along in the journey.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (03:36):
Mm.
Something that came up as you weresharing, this was a very recent
conversation I had with a colleaguewho kind of shared with me almost in
an embarrassed way that her daughterJust got her period and how she didn't
know what to tell her because shedidn't grow up being taught that , she
wasn't exposed to sort of a healthyway to navigate this situation.
(03:58):
So we commiserated and collaborated andI gave her some hopefully helpful tips.
But yes, I think this idea of reframingthe puberty narrative, as you say
is key, and needs such a shift.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (04:12):
And as an Asian American, um, the narrative in my head
was I just thought it was an Asian thing.
And now that I'm really workinginternationally with different
parents, I realize it's universal.
So yeah, that has been healing.
I.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (04:29):
Now, what would you, what would you advise
people like as a starting point?
How can parents do that?
How can we reframe this narrative?
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (04:38):
Yeah, so I think probably the first place to start,
uh, so many parents approach me andsay they feel ill-equipped because
they had no education around puberty.
Their families didn't talk aboutit, so in a dream world, I would
actually love to replace the wordpuberty, uh, with something different.
Just, you know, language matters and justthe word is triggering not only for, you
(05:02):
know, the grownups in the room, but thekids, you know, uh, I just say that word
and, uh, and there's giggles, there's, youknow, flushed faces, embarrassment, shame.
So I would love to replaceit with celebrate growth.
You know, parents say theysigned up for this, their child
(05:22):
for this puberty workshop.
What should they tell them?
And just let's first begin by, byreplacing it by celebrating growth.
The second thing is, let'sseparate it from sexual maturity.
puberty is starting, modern pubertyis starting as early as age seven.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (05:44):
Mm-hmm.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (05:45):
And you know, when we use that old school
language that she's becoming a woman,
not relevant at age seven, and itcan be depressing for both parents
to think that their seven yearold is becoming quote unquote a
woman, and for that child as well.
(06:06):
You know, they'reenjoying their childhood.
And, there are some kids that have gottenreally emotional about having to come
to one of my puberty workshops and in abeautiful way the parents have broken down
and asked them, you know, what is goingon and they're not ready to grow up yet.
It's as simple as that.
Like we've placed this whole , um,narrative around what they
might be feeling that's morecomplex, but it's really as
(06:29):
simple as they're still children.
So I think starting from that place that,this isn't, um, sexual maturity per se.
I know the scientific definition,but a lot of things need to change,
you know, and those definitionshave been around for ages.
Um, so I just see itas celebrating growth.
And then the second piece is, Comingfrom a place of having an attitude of
(06:51):
gratitude that our bodies are healthy,
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (06:54):
Hmm.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (06:55):
working, you know, in this post pandemic era.
I think if everyone sits withthat or starts with that,
that puberty is a privilege.
Aging, maturing, our bodies growing.
It's a p a privilege, and thatif our bodies are doing what they
are meant to be doing, then we'regrateful that we are healthy.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (07:16):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
There are so many reframes and,uh, perspective shifts in what you
just shared that resonated with me.
I think first, sort of coming up with adifferent definition for puberty or having
this, vocabulary swap, if you will, tocelebrating growth does feel so important.
It reminds me a little bit of how.
(07:38):
I mean, it's sort of relatedto how many body positivity.
Um, experts and coaches and therapistsare trying to help people understand
that the word fat shouldn't be loadedwith this negative connotation.
It's just this non.
Good.
Not bad.
Just a thing.
And similarly, you're right, I thinkpuberty has really taken on this
(07:59):
negative connotation that makes peoplefeel squeamish and uncomfortable and
giggly and awkward, like you said.
So really planting these seeds in ourkids that it's nothing to be afraid of.
It's nothing to, um, tease someoneelse about or feels shame around.
It's really just celebratinggrowth that feels like a huge.
(08:20):
Huge perspective shift that I love.
And it's easy, like when your kids saythe word puberty and you can sense that
there's discomfort around it, helpingto sort of say, yeah, I noticed this.
Um, curious where this came from.
And it's actually a celebrationof growth- that feels super
powerful and, uh, actionable.
(08:41):
So I had to get that out there.
Love that.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (08:44):
Yes, it's, I mean, I think that that parallel to fat, you
know, it's about that neutrality andit's about being really scientific.
So, instead of this laundry listwhere we've put a negative spin on,
you know, whether it's pimples ormood swings, um, we can very neutrally
describe each of the changes in a waythat this is what healthy bodies do.
(09:06):
And I have positive spins forevery single one of the changes.
And I like to start, instead of the oldtraditional paradigm of mood swings,
well it is actually mood swings, butit's a spin on it, which is just the
brain remodel, the growth mindset.
Um, and you know, just thisidea that, you know, our brains,
(09:29):
Are shifting in powerful ways.
Another replacement wordis just a transformation.
You're in an exci.
You know, I tell them that theyare in their bodies are in a very
exciting stage of transformation.
I also like to normalize it as just onemore stage of growth instead of like
magnifying this one area, you know,the brain remodel can start as early
(09:53):
as age seven and, and it ends at 25.
So so I tell them, you know,they've lost teeth and the way
their body looked and functioned,has changed, but we celebrated it.
Some have the tooth fairy, other peoplehave different traditions, and, and
similarly, if we can just make thisa smooth path and not all of a sudden
emphasize this as this different thing.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (10:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I also love what you touchedon with this connotation that,
menstruation means you're a woman.
Um, as if, I don't know, the, theimplication is that somehow this
individual is now ready to be in thisspace of maturity and, there's a odd
unspoken link to being able to getpregnant and childbearing with womanhood.
(10:38):
And so, I just kind of love distancingand not using that phraseology,
uh, because I've always thoughtthat doesn't sit quite right.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (10:49):
Yes.
And so many of the cycle trackingapps go right into fertility.
Um, you know, to your point,and that's why I wrote the
book in the way that I did.
Just in teaching my students, I.
The narrative that I wanted.
So actually, another I guesspiece of advice in terms of
reframing is it's not one big talk.
These are all small plantingseeds all along the way.
(11:12):
And, it's been really fun to getfeedback about the book and so
many people say the simplicityreally resonates, how short it is.
You know, my teaching style as a scienceteacher and as a parent, you know, I have
a daughter that's 12 years old, is toplant those little seeds and then allow
their curiosity to guide where we go next.
You know, kids are gonna, andhumans in general, tune us
(11:33):
out at, at a certain point.
We all know you get like maybe about threeminutes, you know, and, and so just that
idea to keep it simple, keep it short.
And then, we don't know in termsof in the brain remodel, um, where
they are until we allow theirquestions to come to the forefront.
And they're also so, so muchmore interested when it's their
(11:54):
questions getting answered.
So it's not one big talk.
And ideally, these are teachablemoments when, you know, when a child
sees a tampon in your purse and maybethey're two or three years old, the
tone of our voice, you know, andit can make such a big difference.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (12:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think it's important, to remind moms ofthat, the ways that we, in those small
moments throughout their lives, talk aboutour periods or don't talk about them,
like the, the lack of conversation at all.
That in itself says something about thistopic, and I, that was kind of a aha
moment for me when my girls were littler.
(12:31):
I was very used to hiding the tamponsand you know, not mentioning when
I was having hormonal fluctuations.
And then I realized I.
What is this sending them?
It's telling them that this is taboo.
Is it telling them that I'muncomfortable talking about it and
they're learning that they shouldbe uncomfortable talking about it?
So yeah, we, we've had a lot ofdiscussions, and even though I've
(12:54):
had many discussions, I am excitedto introduce them to the reframes
that you present in your book andyour workshops, cuz it's they sound
com super compelling and helpful.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (13:03):
Yeah, I recently had a parent say that, her daughter came home
after our workshop and she was so excited.
Um, there was a family gathering andthey asked, what was your workshop about?
She said, periods in a veryneutral, excited, almost tone,
and there was silence in the room.
And the mom said she too didn't knowwhat to do with that silence, so she
(13:24):
changed the subject to the weatherand you know, we normalized the topic
in our workshop and within this drivehome and, and entering her home space,
she's getting a whole different message.
And that's confusing for kids tonavigate that, you know, here we are
comfortable about celebrating growth andour bodies being healthy and this one
space, and now this word was powerfulenough to silence a room and have her
(13:49):
mom change the subject to the weather.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (13:51):
Gosh, I could completely see myself or some,
you know, friends of mine in that kindof situation where you're these, these
generational contexts and differencesand not knowing how to talk about it.
It's great that your daughters have, anewfound excitement, but being prepared
to as an adult, kind of back them up onthat, um, makes, is important as well.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (14:12):
Yes, yes.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: Another thing you mentioned which (14:13):
undefined
I hadn't thought about, but theidea that puberty is a privilege.
It's, um, I think so often , I'll havethese glimpses into the world that my
daughters navigate and how it just,it's just our normal, but as compared
to a broader scale of the world and,you know, global challenges, uh, I, I
(14:36):
feel so grateful and blessed that weare somewhere where nutritious food is
accessible, where they're able to movefreely, where, um, they have options
in terms of what they can do with theirbodies and how they can get out there.
And so all of.
All of that put in this phrase of pubertyis a privilege that, that's so impactful.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (14:58):
Yes.
And you know, I think what may bethe parallel to that is that so many
of the parents I'm working with aregoing through perimenopause, and
that's another mysterious area wherewe, there's very minimal research
on women's health in this area.
You know, I'm friends with, manydoctors that say that their training
didn't really include, um, That topicsimilarly, aging is a privilege.
(15:21):
We can even broaden it frompuberty being a privilege to aging.
Uh, you know, the fact that we'vegotten this far and we're healthy,
you know, is really a luxury.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (15:30):
yeah.
And the idea ofnormalizing transformation.
The idea that they are goingthrough a transformation in
this seven to 25 age range.
Um, hopefully also plants seeds that ourbodies will always change and evolve.
And this is just part of it.
Like, I like to think that my daughters,they remember when they were three and
(15:52):
four, they look at their baby picturesand all that stuff, and so they can see
that evolution and not expect it to stopwhen they become an quote unquote adult.
Um, I think that's another.
Like in celebrating bodilytransformation in a general sense.
I like to think that that's alsoencouraging them to be open to the
ways that our bodies change as weage, as we, maybe in our forties
(16:16):
we look or feel different than wedid in our twenties, and helping
to feel, make that feel normal too.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (16:21):
Yes.
And even before puberty, like Isaid, with the teeth falling out,
like it's a whole cycle, right?
It's a cycle that continues.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I, I mean, I thinkthat that's a, a really good point.
Um,
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (16:37):
Even kind of encouraging this idea of reframes
around a phrase or a time of life thathas been seen in a negative light.
Allowing them that will make it easierfor them to approach perimenopause,
which I think I am myself, dealingwith, uh, in mysterious ways.
But yeah, it, it makes them feel moreopen to those changes and not see
(16:58):
menopause as this negative thing,which it also has a connotation of.
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (17:03):
Yep.
And it also, it smoothly transitions intopositive body image and body literacy.
Um, so, you know, it's just thisreframe is pretty powerful in
terms of, uh, a lot of levels.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (17:18):
I love it.
All right, so I would love for youto kind of give us a few takeaways
that if the listeners are going toremember anything from this discussion,
what would you like them to remember?
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (17:32):
Well, I love that we really, I did a deep
dive on puberty as a privilege.
I think, that attitude of gratitude,that our bodies are healthy.
Um, and then if we start this discussionabout this transformation with the growth
mindset and the brain remodel, thenremembering that we can, we can do hard
things and that practice makes progresswhen we think about, just in terms
(17:56):
of, you know, our neurological growth.
The more we practice.
And we have been, like you said,I mean from our bodies have been
changing from before we were evenborn and they will continue to change
throughout our entire lifetime.
And change can be stressful, but themore that we know knowledge is powerful.
(18:18):
Um, so the more we can get thatscientific knowledge to understand
that our bodies are healthy whenthey're going through all of these
changes, I think is really powerful.
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host (18:27):
Mm.
And do you have, a favorite quoteor affirmation you'd like to leave
with the listeners on this topic?
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (18:35):
I mean, I think so.
So listening to your body, I guess, youknow, body literacy is all about, like,
our bodies are like a compass and we justneed to learn how to read them, right?
And so whether we're talking about hungercues, Or even technology consumption.
How is, how are things making us feel?
(18:55):
So listen to your body.
It's something I say to my daughter,it's something I say to my students.
It's just this moment of likechecking in, of, you know,
Carmelita (Cat) Tiu, Host: That Yes, that is so important. (19:04):
undefined
For whatever reason, maybe itwas told to me, but I didn't
listen or it didn't sink in.
But I feel like I was a littlelate in life to, to tune into
some of those bodily cues.
You know, I would push, push, push, kindof override the tiredness, override
the stress, you know, manifestations toget things done or be hyper-productive
(19:26):
or kind of keep going, going.
But I, I love that idea of embracingit and encouraging our daughters to
embrace it at a young age, cuz thathopefully will allow them to navigate
situations and not get burnt out, notget overwhelmed, eat healthy, be active
and, yeah, just generally speaking,prep them for a higher baseline of,
(19:46):
contentment, health, all of those
Konika Ray Wong, GPS (19:48):
And it's all healing for us.
And it's a great excuse actuallyfor self-care because we are the
role models and they're watching us.
And as we are becoming workaholics,you know, I see my daughter you
know, mirroring what I, how I am.
So it's just great reminder thatthey're watching everything we're doing.
They're listening to everythingwe say, and that as we take care
(20:08):
of ourselves, that we're teachingthem to listen to their bodies
and take care of themselves too.
Uh, this chat with Konika kindof made me wish I was 10 and
didn't have my period yet.
So I could read this book andfeel differently from the get-go.
Here are my key takeaways.
Number one.
(20:29):
Put a positive spin on things.
If the word puberty makes yourkid feel uncomfortable, swap in
celebrating growth or transformation.
Another example is mood swings.
Instead of seeing it as a bad thing.
Remind them that it's asign of a brain remodel.
Number two.
Let's separate pubertyfrom sexual maturity.
(20:51):
Puberty can start as early asseven and phrases like she's
becoming a woman or you're a womannow when she gets her period.
Can make it more emotionallychallenging for both kids and parents
where there's likely a disconnectbetween those phrases and how those
kids and parents actually feel.
Number three.
(21:11):
Puberty is a privilege.
Foster an attitude of gratitudethat our bodies are healthy.
Change can be stressful,but we can do hard things.
Number four.
Normalize that our bodies are constantlychanging throughout our lives.
When our bodies change, this meansour bodies are healthy and doing
what they're supposed to be doing.
(21:32):
Whether we're talking about growing from ababy to a kid, to puberty or to menopause.
And number five, our bodiesare like a compass and we just
need to learn how to read them.
So whether we're talking about hungercues or technology consumption,
or even how we feel in a certainsituation or around people.
Listen to your body.
(21:53):
Notice how things make you feeland encourage your daughter
to trust those instincts.
To learn more about Konika, her book andworkshops visit Girl power science.com.
You can follow her on Instagram atgirl power science and of course
buy her book "One in a Million, aFirst Book About Periods" on Amazon.
(22:16):
These links are in the show notes as well.
Two final things.
One, if you like what you heard, pleasetell a friend, follow the podcast and
leave a review on apple or Spotify.
It's like Yelp or Google foryour favorite restaurants?
Um, it may not feel like much,but it does make a difference.
And thanks to all of those thathave left reviews in the past.
(22:37):
And secondly, remember to keepan eye out for more info about
the rise and raise collective.
Uh, community to support busy andmindful moms who want to raise
their daughters with intention.
And who know that also meansbecoming their best selves too,
since values are caught, not taught.
I'm working hard behind thescenes to put something together.
So if you're interested on in gettingon the wait list, uh, feel free
(23:00):
to DM me on Facebook or Instagram.
Or shoot me an email athello at carmelitatiu.com.
That's C a R M E L I T a t I U dot com.
Thanks so much for listening.
it really is a symbol of your commitmentto personal growth, as well as showing up
(23:20):
the best way you can for your daughterswhen you listened to this podcast.
So I am applauding you fromthe bottom of my heart.
And here's to strong women may we knowthem may we be them and may we raise them.
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