Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
that our own cultural
ways are actually heavily been
(00:02):
influenced by colonization.
But we don't realize it, Do youthink?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
that maybe the local
Ghanians are a bit threatened by
the influx of African-Americans.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I think it could be,
and understandably.
You know, if you see If you arestruggling, right and you're
making the average of maybe athousand000 or 1,500 Ghana CDs a
month, right, and you go to thepassport office and you got to
pay a bribe just to get yourpassport delivered on time, and
(00:34):
then you see a news story of 524diasporans receiving
citizenship, I can understandhow that can make you upset and
I think that that's why I go to.
I think that sometimes we'reunderexposed and we don't really
understand the value thatexists in having a collective of
people of the African diasporacoming together.
But I mean, I can empathize andI understand, but I would say
(00:56):
that it's really not a threatbecause the truth is, economies
have always been influenced bydiverse sectors coming into the
economy.
Here in Ghana and all overAfrica.
We have Chinese, lebanese, allkind of you know what I'm saying
different groups that arecoming in, that are doing
(01:17):
business in Ghana.
So it's not just theAfrican-Americans or those
coming from the UK or the otherparts of the Western world, but
people are coming because theysee opportunity and I think that
instead of, I think,complaining, I think what would
be great is understanding how wecan build better bridges and
partnerships so that we can allbenefit from this economy.
In other words, there's a lot,of you know, opportunities to go
(01:41):
around.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, do you think,
especially for you and if I
throw this question to you, thatyou understand the average
guardian well enough to be ableto join forces with?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
um, I, I, I don't
want to complicate it, but I
would say that understand in thesense where I totally 100 get
it.
No, because I didn't grow uphere and when I moved here I
didn't, I didn't come, you know,you know selling from the
roadside or something.
I mean, listen, I've worked, Iworked really hard, by the grace
of God, and, you know, utilizethose resources here in Ghana.
(02:18):
But I will say that I doempathize because I do
understand that, as we say inGhana, chale is no easy hole.
It's very difficult, it's verydifficult and I do empathize and
I think that's why, for me,what's important is creating
platforms to partner withGhanaians who are empowering the
(02:41):
next generation of leaders.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So the reason I ask
that question is I was with, you
know, someone who went to lookfor a product that he wanted to
buy, and then this person isfrom the diaspora, she's
African-American, and then theperson that was selling the
product said they don't have theexact one that you're looking
(03:06):
for, but we have this instead.
Would you be interested in that?
And the first words that cameout from this person's mouth was
well, I told you, I'm lookingfor this particular one.
Why are you giving me that one?
Yeah, do you understand?
I understand that is not andthat is not a Ghanaian culture
yes, yes, I get that thatresponse.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I get that one
thousand doesn't happen in Ghana
.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yes, one thousand
percent no, so that's what I
meant by.
Do you understand the average?
Guy okay, okay, I'll get youthe way we do things well enough
to now sit.
Okay, I understand you, derek,so now let's work together yes,
so I get that.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You know, and I think
that's an exchange that happens
anytime somebody goes to a newplace.
I saw this video, right, it wason YouTube.
It was on YouTube or IG orsomething, and it was a it's not
got near but as a Nigerian andor something.
And it was a it's not Ghanaian,but it was a Nigerian.
And then I no, no, it was aNigerian outside in New York and
there were all these pigeonsand he caught one and he was
like hey, can I eat this one?
(04:03):
I said no, no, no, masa, youcan't eat this one, because here
, if you eat this one, you knowthey may take you to jail.
He food with this one.
So it's like when you're comingfrom a different place, you have
to adjust culturally.
So for that African-American, Iunderstand where they're coming
(04:43):
from.
In terms of like, I'm lookingfor this particular one because
sometimes a person is also mayfeel threatened because they
don't know how to navigate.
Let me give you an example.
All right, years ago, when Ifirst came to ghana, I remember
uh taking tro, tro from cape uhcoast to accra, wow, back when
we were selling credits on thescratch cards, right.
So, and I remember number one.
I didn't really understand anyof the language at all, even
simple things like oh, please,I'm coming, oh, like I'm coming,
like I'm gonna return to you.
I didn't understand any ofthese things.
So I go to buy scratch card for,like I think, tensities or
something.
I give the lady 50 Ghana.
I'm sitting in a tro tro.
I don't know that the tro trohas to load before it moves and
(05:06):
so all.
So I'm I'm on edge because Idon't know all of these things.
Right, I give her 50 Ghana.
She, she leaves.
I don't understand what she'ssaying.
I'm yelling at her hey, comeback, where are you going, right
?
So everyone in the church waslaughing at me and they said, ah
.
They say, oh, charlie, she saidshe's just going to get change
and coming back.
So I'm sitting in the church,you're like.
(05:28):
Now I'm feeling very stupidbecause it's the feeling of like
you don't know what's going on,right.
But it's a valuable lesson thatI learned because, remember,
I'm from the states where,typically, even when you talk
about exchanges like that,nobody has to run and get change
from their cousin and bring itback to you.
Change is delivered right there.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
But that's why this
conversation is important.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Right To let our
family yeah back home.
Understand that, if you don'tunderstand something in Ghana or
any part of Africa, observe forsome time, yeah, and look at
what is happening around you.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, but it's very
difficult to observe.
You can observe, but you don'tknow how to contextualize.
Here's another.
Another example when I moved toGhana because I had been coming
back and forth, I know that inGhana nothing is free, nothing
is free.
So when I moved into my firstplace, there was a guy who was
kind of keeping after my place,you know, helping some things,
(06:27):
small, small.
And I remember asking the guythat I was working with.
I said, well, I have to givehim something.
He said, oh no, no, no, don'tworry, he's just, you know, he's
just doing things like this.
And the guy kept messaging me.
He kept asking me how far, howfar, how far?
I didn't know what.
How far meant how far in mymind, meant what is the distance
, when are you?
But he was asking how far withmy money?
(06:47):
Yes, because he was helping.
I had no idea.
So even when I observed thesethings, I literally did not know
what he was talking about.
Now, after I learned right whathe was meaning, I the context
of even like how much to givehim Like, because when I moved
into my neighborhood now this isan atypical example when I
moved to my neighborhood, I hadto settle a bunch of some of
(07:08):
those people were just sittingaround doing nothing, because
they wrote you know, these arethe ones who see my house every
day.
Yeah, now this is a context.
Well, listen, even if youobserve this thing, you don't
really even know how to engagethis until you have some
experience.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I guess what I'm
basically trying to say is that
if you don't observe and askquestions and you come in and
react to the way you will, itmakes matters worse it, does, it
, does, it, does, it does athousand percent.
I agree with you and and and,but I also want you to take take
a little bit of this point aswell, which is it's not unique
to African Americans yes, someof us who have lived abroad for
(07:45):
so long, and we came back wedidn't understand what's going
on yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
You know, and I think
there's sometimes Ghanaians who
come are even more frustratedbecause you, sometimes Ghanaians
leave with wahala and you comeback and you realize Wahala is
still there and you even maybesometimes I don't know, but even
from what I've heard from myfriends is because this is home
(08:10):
and it's almost like they lookat Ghana like a brother or a
sister that has so muchpotential.
But then you see this brotheror sister just wasting their
life and it's like I want somuch for you.
But when I see you doing someof the stuff that you're doing
and you've never changed, itbecomes so disappointing.
So, even though thedisappointment becomes
multiplied.
And but it's true, listen, Italked to my friends and I tell
(08:33):
them you know, listen, I had, Ihad it's not necessarily a
friend, but I was at a meetingone day and we were talking
about police interactions andall of these things.
And, listen, I've been in Ghanalong enough where even sometimes
I just carry Coke because I'llgive the guy some Coke, the
police officer some Coke.
You know, even this simple,small gesture, you know, will
make a difference.
But anyway, one of the ladieswas African-American, was saying
(08:56):
that I noticed that the policeonly bother us as
African-Americans, and so wehave to stop and say listen,
that's not true.
That's not a true statement.
In fact, it's worse for thelocal Ghanaian who can't fight
for himself.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, who can't afford
the 200 cities?
Speaker 1 (09:09):
to cool him down,
exactly, exactly.
So I agree with you that wehave this perception oftentimes,
that is, it's it's erroneousand it's not accurate of what's
really happening.
That's why these conversationsare important and and I will say
this, I will admit this right Ithink a lot of times as African
(09:31):
Americans, we don't realize howAmerican we are until we get to
Ghana, because in the Statesyou are always relegated to your
race.
I don't care how smart you are,any of these things.
When you come to Ghana, it'sactually the culture of America
that exists in us.
We can be entitled, we can bearrogant, and for a lot of us
(09:53):
you have to be.
For example, for me, like inGhana, everything is okay,
everything is fine, you justkind of relax.
Sometimes we don't really speakup for ourselves.
In Ghana, everything is okay,everything is fine, you just
kind of relax.
Sometimes we don't really speakup for ourselves in Ghana.
But if you have this type ofmentality in the US, as a black
person, you will be crushed,right.
So sometimes you don't reallylike that, doesn't turn off like
that when you come to Ghana.
So you have to really havethese come sometimes bad
(10:15):
experiences where you stop andrealize I overreacted.
That was too much to reallyunderstand that.
Okay, I'm safe, nobody's tryingto come and attack me.
I really have the privilege tolive where I want, do what I
want, as long as I have theresources and I have the
relationships.
But sometimes that mentalitydoesn't turn off immediately.
(10:36):
It takes time.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
It takes time.
It takes time.
It's the realization that hasgot to go at at some point.
I think when Ghana became alittle bit easier for me to stay
was when I became like thelocals no understood why they do
what they do.
Otherwise, you pay 200 citiesfor a bottle of water, mmm.
Meanwhile it's three cities.
Yeah, yeah, it's true.
(10:57):
Because you've chosen to,you've created a huge gap
between you and the system.
Yeah, and it's three cities.
Yeah, yeah, it's true, becauseyou've chosen to, you've created
a huge gap between you and thesystem.
Yeah, and it's the people thatmake the system.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
And that's the
biggest difference, right when
you're coming from a world whereyou know Ghana, the most
valuable currency in Ghana isrelationships, yes, but when
you're coming from a world wherebasic things like if your
streetlight is off, you call anumber Maybe you have an app
that tells you the technicianwill arrive between 2 pm and 4
pm, the technician is on the way, the technician has arrived,
(11:27):
the technician has repaired thesituation, the technician is
gone and you don't necessarilyneed people.
You don't really understand howmuch you need people until you
come to a place like Ghana.
Again, for me and I'm talkingabout a situation like this in
the first place I lived, we hadall of these issues you go
outside, the, the, the, thelight is literally on fire.
(11:47):
You call the local company.
They won't, they won't doanything, so you have to go and
greet your neighbors.
Please do you know anyone whocan repair this?
But until you live in a systemwhere you're forced to really
adopt that currency ofrelationships, you don't really
understand how valuable that is,and sometimes that only comes
through time.
It only comes through time andexperience.
(12:09):
So and I think that, so youknow, I tell people who are
coming.
I don't care if you're Ghanaian, nigerian, if you're coming, if
you haven't been in thisculture for a while, you know
you have to give grace to peopleand, for those who are here,
you have to give grace to thoseindividuals as well, because I
think all folks are just tryingto come together and live
(12:30):
together.