Sunflowers After the Storm: Turning Their Mother's Tragic Death Into Hope & Light - Jessie Lake and Molly Johnson's Story - LDS Podcast "Latter-Day Lights" - Inspirational LDS Stories

Episode Transcript
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Scott Brandley (00:00):
Hey there, as a Latter Day Lights listener, I
want to give you a very specialgift today.
My brand new book, Faith toStay.
This book is filled withinspiring stories, powerful
discoveries, and even freshinsights to help strengthen your
faith during the storms oflife.
So if you're looking to beinspired, uplifted, and

(00:21):
spiritually recharged, justvisit faithtoy.com.
Now, let's get back to theshow.
Hey everyone, I'm ScottBrandley.

Alisha Coakley (00:32):
And I'm Alisha Coakley.
Every member of the church hasa story to share, one that can
instill faith, invite growth,and inspire others.

On today's episode, we're going to hear how
two sisters discovered eightchildren's manuscripts written
by their late mother before shewas killed by domestic violence
and their efforts to erasestigmas, publish her books, and
spread awareness.
Welcome to Latter Day Lights.
Welcome, guys.

Thank you.
Well, hello, hello.
Molly, Jesse, thank you guys somuch.
Today's going to be a littlebit of a tougher subject,
especially because at the timeof recording, uh, we just today,
our our actual real time today,experienced um not only the
announcement that PresidentNelson has passed away late last

(01:41):
night, but that there's been amass shooting in Michigan in one
of the um wards in Grand Blanc,Grand Blanc Blanc.
How do they say that?

Jessie Lake (01:50):
I haven't heard it said out loud.

Okay.
Um, and so we just, you know,first of all, share our
condolences to all of the lovedones out there who have family
and involved in these uhpassings and tragedies.
And we want to extend our loveto you guys too, because your
story kind of touches on umlosing someone to domestic

(02:13):
violence as well.
So we just wanted to kind ofpreface the show with that and
just let you guys know um thatanything that's shared today,
we're gonna do it as uhsensitively as we can and with
as much love and compassion aspossible.
And and of course, the focus ofthe show is always to spread
light to the world, right?
So um we're excited to hearmore about the light part of

(02:38):
your story.
Um, but before we get into allof that, we would love to get to
know you a little bit better.
So uh let's start with Molly.
Molly, why don't you tell us alittle bit about yourself?

Molly Johnson (02:49):
Yeah, just really quickly, I'm I'm Molly Johnson.
I am married to my husbandZach.
Um we live in Salem, Oregon.
I'm from Oregon, and um I havetwo little kids.

Yeah, I'm Jesse.
Um I'm married.
My husband and I live inEugene.
We have four kids and a dog.
Can't forget her.
She's kind of a favorite, butum, yeah.

How so how close do you live together?
Like how far away do you live?

Like an hour and 15.
Well, if I'm driving like anhour and 15, if she's driving,
like an hour and oh my gosh,that's dramatic.

Sounds funny.
And now your sister, so who'sthe older?

I should make people guess.
Um, I am 10 years older thanwhile I was born on my 10th
birthday.
So yeah.

Really?
Okay, because you guysseriously look like you're, I
mean, so close in age that I Ithink that's good or bad for
you.
Is it it's great for both ofyou guys.
Neither of you guys look likeyou're old enough to have as
many kids as you have, or any ofthe things that um now, where

(04:18):
is it just the two of you girls?
Do you have siblings as well?
It's complicated.

Yeah, that's a really complicated question.
We both have our parents wereum, my mom and dad were both
married previously, and Jesse'sanyway.

So we have the same mom, yeah, but we were raised
together.
So, like I have a littlebrother that's my dad's, and she
has an older brother and sisterthat are her dad's.
Um if you can release mybrother and sister, yeah.

Yeah, we we claim her brother, but we don't claim
my brother and sister.
So however you want to takethat, yeah.

Um we actually joke a lot because uh maybe we'll
get into it, but after our momdied, I raised Molly, and so now
we always joke like I'm hermom.
Like on paper, I adopted her,so uh like legally I'm her

(05:16):
mother, but I'm her sister.
So her son calls me Aunt Nanny.
Nanny, Aunt Nanny.
It's really cute.

People are always like Nana, Aunt Nanny, or also
looking at her as nanny, likeshe doesn't look like a grandma
either.
So all right, got it.

Well, uh uh we're interested in hearing more
about your family and thedynamics and all of the things.
So uh we're gonna go ahead andjust give you guys the floor and
let you tell us where yourstory begins.
Well, luckily I'm off the hookbecause it starts more with you
than it does with me.

So you can't just start us off.
Okay.

Um my parents got divorced when I was young.
I don't have any memories ofthem being together, but I think
I was like, I think they werelike working things out from
three to five-ish.
Um and then my mom met Molly'sdad when I was six, and um I

(06:20):
believe he moved in with us whenI was like a little older than
six.
Um and I knew from thebeginning I was not fond of him.
Um I wasn't particularly warmor kind to him.
I can really remember feelinglike that.
And I don't know at the time,like if that was my intuition,

(06:43):
you know, like kids can feelstuff pretty strongly about
people, or if it was um likebecause I don't have memories of
my mom and dad together, I dohave a lot of memories of my mom
and I together.
And so, like she read me booksin bed every in her bed every
night.
And then when Molly's dad cameinto the picture, I was in my

(07:06):
bed and they were in her bedtype of a thing.
And so I don't know if it wasso much like I didn't like him
or I didn't like the changesthat were happening, and that my
mom didn't feel like only mine.
Um but early on it was clearthat he um was not comfortable

(07:29):
to be around.
He um and it's so hard, it'sreally hard to talk about
because it doesn't sound likethat big of a deal when you just
say the words withoutexperiencing the feeling of like
his presence or his tone or umthose kinds of things.

(07:49):
And because of that, I think itbecame really easy to downplay
his behaviors and interactions.
Um, because it was difficult toexplain to someone else.
So, like I'll give you anexample.
Like when I was little, I canremember he wouldn't speak to my
grandma.
She was staying with us for theweekend or something, and he
won't speak to her because sheput onions in the potato salad

(08:10):
and he didn't like onions.
And so for him, that was like apersonal attack and disrespect.
And so he just didn't speak.
And so when he got upset, um itwas like my mom referred to it
as pouting, he's pouting, um,because he just would not he

(08:33):
would go into his room andwouldn't, it's like he was
punishing you with silence, youknow, you're like literally
walking on eggshells becausethere he was not speaking.
And so um there was stuff likethat, or you know, like we went
to Disneyland and I picked out ashirt at the souvenir shop.
Uh my mom and I ran in and Igrabbed a shirt and it said

(08:55):
grumpy, and I gave it to him,like as like the souvenir I had
picked for him.
And instead of like laughing orwhatever, like again, there was
no speaking and I was introuble and he was mad.
And then later at the hotel, Iwas crying because my mom was
brushing my hair.
I'm like eight, maybe seven, Idon't know.
And um he got super upset andpacked all our stuff up, and we

(09:20):
had to drive home in the middleof the night from Disneyland
because I was being a brat aboutum getting my hair brushed.
And so, and it was silent, likeyou're driving in silence from
Disneyland to Oregon, you know,like that's a really long trip
and confusing.
You're like, um, I can rememberwe stopped at a McDonald's and
we're all sitting there in themiddle of the night, like eating

(09:41):
in silent.
I'm like, what just happened?
Wow, um, and so it was a lot ofthat, a lot of that.
And um when I was younger, Iwas more brave and outspoken.
And I can remember once sayingto him, he was upset with me
about something, like leaving mytoys out or something.

(10:02):
And um at the time he workedthe night shift, so he would be
home when I got home fromschool, and then we would eat
dinner and he would go to workand he got upset about my toys
or something, and I argued withhim, and um I don't even
remember what he said to me, butI looked at him and I said, if
you touch me, I will call my dadand he will kill you.

(10:25):
And he backed, he backed down,he left me alone, and that was
kind of it.
Like we did not reallyinteract.
Um, he didn't kill my mom tillI was 21.
I never hugged him.
He didn't interact with me.
Like we would interact as afamily, um, but he did not have
interaction, like we did nothave interactions or

(10:46):
conversations together ever.
Um, and all I can tell you is Ijust like seeing his car pull
up after work, like I would justget a sick feeling in my
stomach, like of dread.
And it's not like he came inand was loud and beating my mom
up and stuff.
And so it was just confusing.

(11:10):
I mean, I did not know that weexperienced domestic violence
until I'm 41.
I did not know until I was 38.
38 um that that's what it was.
Like I could compartmentalizecertain and he did get physical
um in certain instances, butit's like I could, it was like,
oh, that one time that he triedto strangle her, well, that one

(11:33):
time that he did XYZ and thatone time that he killed her, but
like I didn't realize that thatall of it was um part of
domestic violence andmanipulation and gaslighting and
making you feel like what youwere experiencing wasn't like

(11:56):
why am I scared?
He's not doing anything scary,he just is making us leave
Disneyland, and it just wasalways weird, I guess, is all my
brain could come up with, kindof.
Um and then there were likethere were a couple of times
like that were actually violentthat we I mean I witnessed when

(12:18):
I was um 11.
Um they were I from what Iremember, like this summer had
become pretty volatile.
They were what seemed like theywere probably gonna get a
divorce.
And um I had spent the week atmy grandparents' house up north
in Oregon, and I can rememberthe whole ride home, just like

(12:40):
begging my mom, please don't gohome.
I don't want to go home.
He's gonna be mad.
I don't want to go.
And she said, it's gonna befine.
We're gonna go to bed, he's notgonna control us.
This is our home.
It will be fine.
And um he it wasn't fine, andthey got in an argument or
something.
I don't even know if you cancall it an argument.

(13:01):
He got upset and um grabbed herby the neck and twisted her
ankle.
Um, she was holding Molly.
Molly was a baby, and I wassitting there in the living
room, and he whispered that hewas gonna kill everybody that
she ever loved, take Molly, andshe would never see Molly again,
and he walked out.
And when he walked out, my momwalked the deadbolt.

(13:25):
So we're in there, and he cameback and was trying, like my
mom's physically holding thedeadbolt closed while he's
unlocking it with his key, andhe got tired of that.
So we went to the back door,which I was standing guard at
the back door, and when he wouldget to the back door, she would
tell me to switch, and shewould hold the deadbolt, and we
went back and forth, back andforth until she finally looked

(13:46):
at me and she just said, run.
And so I'm 11, and to this day,my fight or flight, like I've
said this before, but I'm like,if you're choking, I'm not the
girl, I'm out of there.
I'm like, if something is scaryor threatening to me, I am out.
So when my mom looked at me andtold me to run, I ran my little

(14:07):
bare feet up to the neighbor'shouse and we called 911.
And um, but I never gotvalidation for any, like he went
to jail, he moved out, he gottherapy.
Um, but I'm 11, so I'm notprivy to the details of what's
going on, and all of a suddenhe's just back and things were

(14:31):
calmer.
Um, we moved closer to mygrandparents.
Um, things went back to justbeing weird, quote unquote, and
uncomfortable, but not violent.
And it's kind of like it neverhappened.
Um, but I developed severeanxiety and obsessive compulsive
disorder the same week that umthat he went to jail and all

(14:53):
that happened.
We lived in like a not a realsafe house, but it's like a
friend of a friend knew a friendthat we went into hiding at her
house until we were sure thathe was calmed down and he wasn't
gonna come back.
And um, and I don't know if mymom was just in her own state of

(15:15):
trauma and figuring things out.
Um but nobody ever talked to meabout my experience of it, and
it's like all of a sudden, outof nowhere, I just am
experiencing debilitatinganxiety, and um, I lost so much

(15:35):
weight.
I was really, I mean, I was 12then, and I couldn't eat, I
could hardly go to school, Icouldn't go to my friends'
houses anymore, I couldn't goinside buildings anymore.
I it was really debilitating,and not one person, not the
therapist that I went to, notthe doctors and specialists, and

(15:57):
everybody that's trying tofigure out why my stomach was
hurting all the time, connectedthe dots at all.
Um, and so I have spent upuntil I was 38 feeling just
crazy.
Like, why do I have such badanxiety?
Why can I not control this?

(16:18):
Why am I afraid of whatever?
And for me particularly, it ummy therapist now has kind of
helped explain it, but kids whogo through trauma when they're
young like that often haveeating disorders or drug
addictions, something that theycan try to control because their
life is out of control.
And um, for me, it turned intoa fear of throwing up, like a

(16:43):
not just your regular, like Idon't like throwing up, but like
debilitating um like actualphobia, um, because it was
something that I felt like Icould control to some extent
somehow.
And so that's how my braindecided to protect me.

(17:05):
And um, that's one of mybiggest things to this
experience is feeling like Imean, if you fall down and skin
your knee, like you're gonnahave some consequences of some
bleeding, some bruising, somepain, like that's expected and
and normal, right?
Like that's your body'sreaction to it.

(17:26):
And of course, if you gothrough stuff like holding doors
closed and being responsible,and not that my mom said I was
responsible, but uh there had tohave been feelings of
protection, like that that wason me to keep the door closed
and to help save us.

(17:47):
Obviously, that's going to havesome consequences and some just
like a bruised knee orwhatever.
But I never got, I did not knowthat.
And nobody ever helped me torealize that.
And so I just kind of felt likea burden and like too much,

(18:08):
like my anxiety was too much.
So I learned to like make funof it, joke about it, um just
kind of like push it off, like,oh, there's Jesse in her hand
washing again, you know me.
But um I think that's one ofthe biggest things for me is
like I through opening up andstarting to talk about this,

(18:30):
which we haven't really done alot of up until the past six
months or something like that.
Um I have realized that I canget all the validation from my
therapist, from you, from Molly,from whoever that like, of
course you're gonna experiencethat.
Of course, like it's quoteunquote normal to feel anxious.

(18:52):
But I've realized recently it'slike I need to learn to
validate myself.
Like I need to understand thatit was okay that I had a
reaction to the experiences thatI had.
And that's been right trickybecause I've been praised my
entire life for being strong,for being um able to handle

(19:14):
anything, to be able to dowhatever.
And I'm like, but I was dyingon the inside and making fun of
it when I couldn't control it.
And you guys just praised meand told me I was strong for it.
But on the inside, I wascrumbling.
Um so, anyways, I mean, I feellike that's one of my soapbox

(19:35):
things recently is like ofcourse I have stuff because of
we all do, whatever ourexperiences are, it all affects
us in you know, like everythinghas a cause and effect, and of
course that affected me.
Um so, anyways, I kind of gotoff track a little bit, but you

(19:58):
can say the rest.
You're born now.

I was born now.
Um, but yeah, so my dad he didwork nights a lot, and he um
didn't live with us very often.
Um, so I've been kind ofbecause of work.

He would go away for like two, like he would work
in California for two years.
Um like doing he was like aco-manager of Walmart.
So he would go like to a newstore or whatever, and he would
be gone for a couple of yearsand come home on the weekends,
or um, my mom would go there forlike a weekend or something.

(20:39):
So like the day in and day out,we really didn't see him much,
particularly after we moved umto Eugene, is when he really
started working out of town alot, which is when Molly's like
most of her childhood was.

Yeah.
So so most of our life reallywas just Jesse and um our mom
and me.
And that felt really great.
Like Jesse talks about how shedidn't know that we were kind of
part of this demographic, and Ithink a large part of that is
because um it it was the threeof us a lot of the time, and our

(21:17):
mom shielded us from a lot.
Like obviously things seepedthrough, and you know, she
couldn't shield us fromeverything.
Um, but our life was reallygood and really happy and safe
and fulfilling and felt reallynormal uh most of the time,
except when he was around.
Um so we I was looking throughum like some documentation from

(21:43):
when she filed for divorce, andand she even said like more than
half of my life, he didn't evenlike live in the same house as
us.
Um which thank you so much.
Um but yeah, so um I meanthings continued on in that same
way.
Like I don't really have verymany memories of him being a

(22:03):
dad.
I don't have a memory of himever reading me a book, I don't
have memories of him tucking mein for bed.
Um, I just he wasn't reallyaround, but when he was around,
um it wasn't pleasant.
And so um things, you know,kind of progressively got a
little bit worse, but still feltkind of okay.

(22:24):
And it's confusing because ofthat that so much was going on
and she was facing so muchturmoil and she was going
through all of this, but she washolding down a job and she was
a social worker, and she was Iwas enrolled in sports and she
never missed a game.
And really, yeah, so it's justI think from the outside, um we

(22:47):
just looked like a reallynormal, quiet group of three for
the most part.

So I'm sorry to interrupt, but your mom, so she
was a social worker, so she wasin she was seeing her life
played out in all of thesedifferent families that she's
working with, right?

And she was the wittiest, strongest, most
independent, loyal, loving, likeit's mind-boggling what uh like
through this process, we'verealized, like, oh, she was
scared.
She had a secret bank account,she had notes tucked in her sock

(23:26):
drawer, she knew that thingswere bad.
We didn't know that she knewthat.
Like she didn't tell us she wasscared, we didn't feel scared
when it was the three of us.
And even when it was him, itwas like he's pouting, he's
this, he's that, but it's notlike so.
It was confusing.

(23:46):
It was like this doesn't feelright, but it's not what I'm
seeing on TV of like he's notbeating her up, and she's not
doing drugs, and we don't livein a trailer, and so it was
like, what is this?
I don't know why I feel so badaround him.
I didn't have a name for it, orI I mean, truly, Molly made me

(24:12):
take a test when I was test,like the adverse childhood
experience that you've heard of.
And I was like, Oh, well, thatlooks bad on paper, but I didn't
realize that's what it reallywas.
Like it's like I would alwayssay he strangled her, but it's

(24:34):
like, oh, I'm not supposed to dothe air quotes anymore for
things like he actuallystrangled her.
And because it just happenedonce, and because it was just
this weird to me situation, itlike devalidated, like

(24:55):
devalidated the situations, Ifeel like, and then because she
went on, like she went to workand she did her stuff, and and
so it was like, oh, okay, well,that was weird.
Um and now I'm a wreck, but whoknows why?
Like, what's wrong with me?
And um, so yeah, I mean, forall intents and purposes, she

(25:22):
really anyone who remembers herjust remembers how funny and
strong and independent, and it'sjust shocking that it was
happening to her, I guess.

And to us.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
And I think the part that wehave come to realize is that
while there were these isolatedevents, he was still that person
to her in private, but it justdidn't erupt in front of us.
Um, and so I'm sure that shewas still experiencing all of

(25:55):
those things from him in waysthat we couldn't see.
And she had those scars and andwe didn't know um because our
life felt normal and we werejust those quiet girls in that
house, you know, like we justentered the park.

To that point, um, Molly's like on a mission to
she's been asking all thequestions to all the people.
We just celebrated the 20thanniversary with a benefit
concert, and it brought peopleback into our lives that we kind
of like she died, and I wassupposed to be starting my
junior year of college, Mollywas supposed to be starting
fifth grade.

(26:34):
We moved to a different town,our life started, it was like it
didn't happen.
Like we were different peoplewith it, it was just kind of
bizarre to be honest.
But it brought this concertbrought back into our life a lot
of people who we haven't spokento in 20 years that we were
close with.
And one of them was my mom'sbest friend, and she was telling

(26:56):
Molly, like, um my mom sufferedfrom clinical migraines, which
Molly has too, but Molly's arereally um brought on by stress,
and I'm like, oh, how funny.
Our mom had migraines literallyall the time, like throwing up
like really bad.
Um, I'm like, oh, do you thinklike maybe it's because she was

(27:19):
stressed all the time?

Like, I don't know, but um stuff like mine
started when I was two when hechoked her for the first time.
So mine started because ofthis, and I've had a migraine,
gosh, every day since theconcert.
Like, just there's so much thatwe're processing right now, and
so I I really think that herswere you know, it's hereditary

(27:42):
and we both have this gene orwhatever it is that stress it's
aggravated by stress.

But Wendy was saying that um he would do stuff
like dump out her hide or dumpout her migraine um prescription
medicine because he would saystuff like, Well, if you don't
want to spend time with me, justtell me don't pretend you have
a migraine.
She's like literally throwingup or like in the emergency room
because she can't function.
Um and so like she actually,when we moved to Eugene, my

(28:15):
mom's best friend Wendy stilllived in Medford, Oregon.
So there's about three hoursbetween them.
So my mom had the prescriptionswitched to Wendy's pharmacy.
Wendy would pick them up andmail them to my mom's work so
that my mom could hide them fromhim so that she could still
have her medicine.
So she was dealing with stufflike that.

(28:35):
We didn't even find that outuntil a couple weeks ago, you
know, like so she was dealingwith a lot of stuff that we
genuinely had no idea.
So for us, it was theseisolated events, and for her, it
was a lifetime of it, you know,a day in and day out um kind of

(28:56):
situation.

And I imagine, I mean, you guys were there
obviously more often than thebest friend or other family
members or whatever else.

And so they had probably even less insight right
into how bad it it really was,unless your mom might have been
really open with them about shewas like um at the very end,
like I know my grandpa came intothe house and installed locks
on our windows so that theywouldn't open more than like an
inch or something like that, sowe could have windows open, but

(29:28):
not enough because he wasclimbing in through windows and
um doing other stuff like thattowards the end.
But um she really wasn't veryopen with anybody about the
details of it, other than Imean, which at the same time is
weird.
Like she had my grandma open asecret bank account in my

(29:49):
grandma's name that my mom woulddeposit money from her checks
into every month in casesomething happened to her, Molly
would be taken care of.
So it's like my grandma didthat, but then my grandma

not ask the question like I'm like why how
did you know that but you didn'tknow like you didn't I don't
know it's confusing and ofcourse our grandparents have
passed now so we can't um reallyask all the questions we would
like to but but it is trickyyeah I think in situations like

(30:23):
that it's um how do I say this Ifeel I feel like my parents
like the boomer generation rightor whatever I feel like um they
had this marriage is marriagecome hell or high water doesn't
matter what happens people fightyou get over it right like they

(30:46):
have this like mentality of uhyou pretty much could do just
about anything and because youcommitted to being married you
you're committed to beingmarried so you try your best to
make it as good as you can butunderstand that it's not going
to be as good and then you godown to like our generation and
we've kind of we've kind oflearned about like no no no
there are definitely things thatare like an no go like things

(31:09):
that that warrant getting out ofrelationships that aren't
healthy for you because of allof the trickling trauma effects
that happens you know deepwithin not just the person
that's that's dealing with itdirectly but all of the the
children and the you know likeit kind of trickles down um and
now I feel like the youngestgeneration star out there it's

(31:32):
almost it's almost like theexact opposite extreme it's like
the one time that you disagreeover what to have to do that's
it that's the now they're likeit's like hold on we need to we
need to all figure out a bigbalance but but I can see how
maybe her parents had a adifferent way of looking at
relationships and so while yesthey didn't want that for her

(31:56):
they also probably were werebattling with their own trauma
too in like you don't quit andtotally well I think she
actually because in high schoolI said why are you do like do
you even what's to like abouthim?

Like what are you doing?
Why are you putting up withthis?
And she turned to me and shewas like you don't know what
you're talking about.
I don't want like yeah I knowgetting divorced from my dad
really wrecked her you know shethought they were gonna be
together forever and he well hesays he didn't cheat on her but

(32:32):
he cheated on her and um youknow it's just it broke her
heart and then she's a singlemom and then Molly's dad comes
in and he's mowing the lawn anddropping off groceries and
bringing me presents and doingall this stuff that like as a
single mom like she didn't wantto come home from work and mow
the lawn and take care of all ofthis stuff and he swooped in

(32:55):
and did that and she told melike it was never about being in
love with him.
It was like he took care ofwhat needed to be taken care of
and she told me that like youdon't know what it's like to be
divorced and you don't give upon on a marriage like I made a
commitment and I'm that was mychoice and I'm committed to it

(33:18):
and I was like I mean I was like15 or something but I remember
feeling like super swolded butalso like you just told me you
didn't even like it was neverabout being in love with them
like then leave.
Yeah but I think probably forher she also felt a little bit
of that same confusion like he'snot that bad.

(33:42):
Yes like I can deal with hispouting or I can deal with his
whatever because it's not thatbad.
And then the isolated eventswere so few and far between that
you can kind of justify him youknow um a little bit over time.
Yeah but there were severalsmaller events when we were

(34:05):
younger and then things he wasgone a lot and things kind of
seemed to calm down and then hemoved back home full time my
freshman year of college and umI don't really feel bad but I
always do feel like a little bitbad that what started like the
beginning of the end was he hadturned my bedroom into like his

(34:30):
den.
And I was coming home for thesummer and my mom was like well
she needs her bedroom like sheneeds an actual bedroom and he
felt like I didn't need abedroom um and my mom insisted
that I needed a bedroom andsomehow that turned into she was

(34:53):
choosing me over him.
So he refused to come out ofthe bedroom so I would sleep on
the couch um when I was homelike on the weekends or whatever
um but he also stopped speakingto anybody and it I I think it
was like the end for her.
She just like couldn't shewouldn't ask him to come out of

(35:14):
the bedroom she wouldn't askwhat was wrong or you know she
was like this is just like Ican't like I can't live with a
two year old you know I'm notgonna play this game or
whatever.
And he just he really dug hisheels in and by I think
September was like pretty badand by Christmas um he had taken

(35:37):
pliers and scrunched hiswedding ring and said that's
what he was gonna do to her andum and then after that he moved
out but he moved across we livedin front of a park he moved
across the park um into anapartment complex and we just
found out that he would use hisrifle scope to spy you could see

(35:58):
from his living room windowinto our the front of our house
and so he set up a mattress andhe had his scope and would um
spy and then wow things justkept getting worse and worse he
would unscrew light bulbs whenwe weren't home so we would come
home and it was dark or hewould um leave notes in the

(36:19):
house just to let her know thathe had been there and he'd
figured out a way to get in shehad the locksmith there a lot
that summer um and it got to thepoint at the end speaking of
not being able to like trustmyself really like is what I
think is real like actually realI told my dad and my

(36:41):
grandparents maybe within a weekor two of her dying um I I
genuinely think he's gonna killher like this is getting out of
like I don't understand what'shappening this is just getting
worse and and my dad for sureverbally was like no he's not
you know he's blowing smoke hewants the attention he's he's

(37:06):
not gonna do anything and I waslike okay um and I'm like all
these things that felt real tome but people assured me weren't
really real my whole life Ilook back and I'm like no I was
I was actually right and youshould have helped me like don't

(37:29):
always dismiss me and what I'mobserving or seeing or feeling
and that really taught me overmy lifetime I mean my dad was a
really big like I don't feelgood well tell yourself you do
feel good and then you'll befine and I'm like that turns out
I have strep or um I'm coldwell tell yourself you're not
cold like your body will warmitself up and like I mean I

(37:52):
think I'm actually cold um but Iwe really learned to like oh
yeah okay it's probably not thatbad I'm probably just um being
dramatic and on the phone with911 I remember saying he's
killing her he's killing her butmy brain is saying stop being
dramatic like it's probably fineit's probably fine you're being

(38:15):
dramatic but like seeing thatit's not fine but I couldn't I
was at a place where it's like Ididn't trust my own intuition
intuition or or I don't knowsense of what was like right

(38:36):
before my eyes I don't know yeahsorry I'm talking way too much
you talking so I mean how itends is he killed her.

So yeah he killed her he broke into our house
Jesse was there she was behind adoor but Jesse was there.

And how old were you guys when this happened?

Jesse was 21 and I was 11.
It was the day of our birthdayparty um so we had just had our
birthday the day before um andwe're going to celebrate later
that day um yeah nothing likeemptying out a fridge of I now
have realized why I have thistrauma.

Molly has it too we just discovered we both have it
but any event of any kind thatI have to prepare for ahead of
time I start getting nervouslike what if someone gets sick
and we have to cancel what iflike on the way to the temple to
get married I'm like what ifMatt gets in a car accident on
the way to the temple and wenever actually get to get

(39:40):
married but I thought we wereand it was supposed to be
exciting and now it's notexciting.
And I'm like oh that's becausewe were having cake delivered to
our hotel after she died likewell what are we supposed to do
with this cake and I'm like whatare we supposed to do with this
cake and canceling the venueand throwing away the fried
chicken and potato salad that mymom had made for Molly and all

(40:01):
these things that had gone intothis party that didn't get to
happen but you still have tocancel it all.
You still have to call the pooland say and all the friends and
all the things and clean outthe fridge and do all the stuff
to not have the party and I'mlike oh that's why anytime I

(40:23):
prepare to do anything I startgetting anxious and worried but
that was not until therapy thatI realized that I did it and why
why I react that way.

And that Molly does too yeah turns out it scars
yeah who knew so you had so youhad your birthday and then you
were having a party the next dayhe killed her um early early on
a Saturday morning.

So it was 4 30 in the morning I had actually
fallen asleep in her bed.
Molly was at a sleepover at herbest friend's house and I um he
had followed her through thegrocery store that evening he
had followed her um when she wasleaving work she was having
people from work like escort herto the parking lot because a

(41:16):
lot of times he'd be standing atthe edge of the parking lot or
whatever.
And so we had gone to bed butat about 1.30 I woke up and my
legs were restless and um wealways joke because he didn't
mess around with my mom's sleep.
Like I didn't even flush thetoilet in the middle of the

(41:36):
night because you didn't want toaccidentally wake her up with
being too noisy.
So my legs were feeling reallyrestless and now looking back
I'm sure it was like some sortof divine intervention.
But at the time I was like whydid my legs like why did I have
to leave her um but I went Inever had restless I was 21 I'd

(42:01):
never had restless like issuesbut I just could not fall back
asleep without tossing andturning and I knew it was going
to bugger.
So I went to my room which wasjust across the hall and I left
her door open I left my dooropen and at 4 30 I woke up and
her door was closed and my heartwas beating really fast.
So I must have heard somethingum and I got up I tried to call

(42:24):
911 oh I got up her door waslocked I tried to call 911 and
he had cut our foam cords butcell phones had just recently
become a real thing.
So I had my cell phone and Iwas able to call 911 um and I
had one of those little push pinlock things you know I was
trying to unlock her door and Icouldn't unlock the door and all

(42:46):
I mean I was yelling are youokay are you okay and I had no
idea what was going on um andshe said no and then he shot her
but I thought it it just kindof sounded like a belt slap you
know when you snap a belt and soI said he's hitting her to the
911 lady because the door wasstill locked um and then I got

(43:08):
the door open and he was goneand she was um she was
definitely dead the I mean the911 lady made me roll her over
and check for a pulse and stuffwhich I could not do because I'm
sorry if this is graphic, buthe shot her right here.
So when I rolled her over the Imean I couldn't really check
for a pulse and I was way tooscared in my fight or flight

(43:31):
like I left the house multiplereports from neighbors said they
heard like someone thought acat was dying um people just
heard screaming and it was likeI just left um until the police
got there.

Yeah not that this is any part of lightness
but when I walked into the roomit literally felt like a mist of
darkness like truly it had afeeling the room had a feeling
to it um and then he went homeand killed himself but um yeah

(44:16):
well there probably was somedivine intervention there I mean
you're at your friend's houseat a sleepover and then you get
prompted to leave the room.

Yeah and then even like I had the key and it would
not unlock until he was gone.
By the time I got and it and Iwe're talking about a matter of
minutes you know like it startto finish it was four or five
minutes or something.
So um I by the time I got inthe room there was a door that

(44:45):
went to our back patio and stuffhe had gone out that back door
and was and was gone.
So for sure um we recently umreceived the case files for all
this all the police reports andstuff that had happened and they
also found um rope that he hadcut to specific links um duct

(45:11):
tape there were three guns um agoodbye note uh some other notes
a note about how good of aperson I was and so that meant
he also had to have been a goodperson because he raised me um
there was really that honestlyhas been one of the hardest

(45:32):
things for you to feel like Iwas because they were gonna go
to court over custody for Mollyand so he was preparing why he
should have custody of Molly andthat there was a piece of paper
that was titled Jesse and thenhe didn't sexually abuse me he
didn't lay a hand to me I'm agood young lady um and so I was

(45:58):
like oh my gosh like I was gonnabecome part of his twisted
gaslighting manipulation and Icould hear his voice and the
word like how he phrased it andstuff it brought back it's
almost like we erased him fromour narrative the past 20 years.
It's like we talk about our momwe do special things to

(46:20):
remember her her and I jokeabout a lot of stuff to avoid
feeling a lot of stuff um butit's like he didn't really
exist.
And so seeing pictures of himwe recently discovered family
videos that we thought were lostforever that my grandma had
taken um in a bin that we'vebeen through many times but he's

(46:43):
on the videos um so is our momand so are we growing up so it's
so special and it's been sotender but it's also like oh he
was real and that was a realsituation and it's kind of
meshing back together these twoversions of life that we have
it's like before she died wewere this group of people and

(47:06):
after we were this and now allof a sudden everything's kind of
meshing back together and it'sum for sure painful and shocking
and really strange to toremember things like that's how
he spoke that's like the cadenceof his voice or that's
whatever.

(47:26):
But it's also been sovalidating to for me I can't
speak for Molly but sovalidating to see court
documents that back up thingsthat I thought I had witnessed.
I'm like I that did happen andit did happen though that was
scary and my mom's handwritingis right here like writing it

(47:50):
out and in fact it's worse herretelling of it is worse than
what I remembered.
And so I'm like it's beenreally validating for me to be
able to see on paper what wewent through and to feel like it
was like it was real and it waswhat it was like it was
domestic violence it was scarythere was a reason to feel

(48:14):
uncomfortable around him he wasnot a kind person.
And it was all really meditatedand planned out like his
letters that he wrote saying hisgoodbyes and what he wanted
done with his money and stuffwere dated 10 days before he
actually killed her.

You know he had like really planned it out he
let our dog go he did it wasn'tlike a fit of passion and he
just like lost control orsomething you know so yeah so
afterwards um Jesse mentioned welike kind of picked up our
lives and started fresh I mean Idon't think that that was ever

(48:59):
our intention but it's whatbecame of us like we were
surviving at that point and umso we moved um down to southern
Oregon and and started fresh andum a couple months not a couple
months almost a year laterJesse got married to her husband

(49:20):
and um a couple years afterthat um I moved in with them and
um so Jessie and her husbandraised me uh from that time
forward and we grew up in afamily that was not religious at

(49:40):
all.
My my grandparents were devoutLutherans um for most of their
their marriage um and then ourour mom just kind of left that
behind she there was noanimosity or or anything she
could take it or leave it andshe chose to leave it.

(50:00):
And so our our lives growing upwere she was fine with us going
to church with our grandma butit wasn't ever something that
like she instilled in us weweren't we weren't religious at
all.

But Jesse kind of always had that like in her in
her um I feel like I did soughtit out from the time that I was
really little um my grandmataught me how to pray um when I
was going through my obsessivecompulsive anxiety stuff when I

(50:33):
was um it was mostly when I was12 but a little bit when I was
13 I was I had a goal to readthe Bible cover to cover and I
would have I would read the sameline over and over and over
again.
And if I didn't do it the thingthat was going to happen was
that I was going to throw up andso I was like I have to do it
and I have to do it right sothat I don't get sick.

(50:54):
And my mom would sit like Iwould get stuck in the Old
Testament.
My mom would sit there and shewould read out loud to me.
She didn't care about readingit but she knew I did and so she
would read it to me or take meto church if I asked her to and
I would go by myself I justfound a Lutheran church in town
and that's where my grandma toldme to go so I would go and um

(51:17):
so I always was seeking it out.
I loved it I love order andcomfort and security and I feel
like church always felt likethat to me.
But I was open to any kind ofchurch honestly and the boy who
started dating in high schoolwas LDS so I was like sure go to
church with you and um I wentto church on and off all through

(51:39):
high school with his family orwith friends um I went through
way too many sets ofmissionaries to they would
always get sick of me so likethey'd say oh well we challenge
you to you know are you ready toget baptized I'm like no I'm
15.
I don't know what I'm ready todo.
I'm not doing that.
But because I'm so black andwhite I was like well I don't

(52:00):
want to go to hell and I had youknow my grandma saying if I
joined this church I was goingto hell I don't want to I don't
want to go to hell so I guess Iwon't but then I felt like I
knew too much and so I was likewell what if I don't choose it
and go to hell anyways because Iwas supposed to choose it.
But when I was a freshman incollege my mom was like Jesse
you have to decide or I can'tlisten to this anymore like

(52:22):
you've got to you've got tocommit or stop because you're
driving yourself crazy.

So the next week I was baptized and I never
looked back yeah and then andshe started dating her now
husband before he went on hismission and he went on his
mission and our mom loved Mattand I think that that's just
like a really tender part of allof this is that she deeply

(52:48):
loved Matt.

She wrote Matt on on his mission.
We weren't even together likewe were like casually dating
before he left and then we wroteeach other but like my mom
would send him care packages orupdates on Molly's soccer games
and what I was doing orwhatever.
So it was really sweet thatthey knew each other but um when

(53:10):
Molly did up I was very adamantthere was a lot of issues with
in our family about where Mollywas living a lot of people did
not feel like Matt and I wereold enough to be raising a 13
year old um we were only 23 umwhich like checks out you know

(53:30):
it's not important that that wasnormal.
Yeah there was a lot ofconcerns there was a lot of
frustration that we were LDS andthat we were gonna brainwash
her and all of that.
So I told our bishop I was likedo not send the missionaries to
our house do not talk to herabout anything if she comes she
comes if she doesn't she doesn'tlike do not send anybody to my

(53:55):
door like under anycircumstances and they respected
that they didn't they totallylet her go at her own pace and
um there was no pressure that Ino can remember.

But I can remember I would go to mutual I
wasn't I wasn't baptized oranything but I was participating
you know Matt and Jesse weregoing to church on Sunday and so
I was like I want to be homehome alone like I'll go with you
and so it you know it startedby degrees and I think that that
was what I needed and what whatwe all needed and um so I can

(54:29):
remember that they went to thetemple and I and I was like
what's the deal about thetemple?
Why can't I go or somethinglike that.
And it was that I wasn'tbaptized and so I think at that
point I was like oh it's likeeither I'm gonna be in or I'm
gonna be out like I want to makea make a decision.
I don't want to be partially apart of something and and so I

(54:51):
was laying on the floor and Itold Jessie was asleep on the
couch.
She fell asleep nice and earlyevery night and I told her
husband I was ready to take themissionary discussions and they
were there.
I'm sure they had been chompingat the bit I mean everybody
knew who I was this 13 year oldwho was coming to church but was
unbaptized I was certainly onthe missionaries radar and they

(55:13):
they showed up and I took thediscussions for I don't know how
long.
But anyways I chose to getbaptized and I was actually
recently reminded of it you knowI think a lot of people talk
about their experiences as likereally rosy and it was such a
great experience and I came outof the baptismal waters and felt

(55:34):
sick.
I was like I made a mistakethis wasn't right I don't feel
good about this decision and Iwas I'm pretty sure I was
sitting on the floor in thebathroom when Jesse walked in
and I was praying and I was likeI don't know what to do.
Like it just it just didn'tfeel good.
And that's that feelingactually did stay for a while.

(55:56):
Like it wasn't this miraculousI got the Holy Ghost and it went
away or anything like that.
Like I had to like really fightfor it and figure out if this
is what I wanted because itdidn't just resolve on its own
and it didn't solve all of myproblems and um so I I do feel
like I had to dig a little bitdeeper to to stay um and I did I

(56:20):
stayed and um went through theyoung women's program I got
admitted to BYU and went to BYUI served a mission and um so we
have you know stayed in it but II remember one of the formative
experiences for me that umafter our mom died was asking
Jesse like where is our mom likewhat happens from here I like I

(56:46):
I can't understand I was youngand I can remember Jesse saying
that like she believed in heavenand like what that looked like
and you know the plan ofsalvation.
And so that has been one oflike the pivotal parts for me.
You know I feel like there areso many different components to
the gospel um and there areparts that really stick out to
me that feel I feel connected toand um being able to see our

(57:09):
mom again is one that I think Ihold on to probably the the
dearest and um really lookforward to that day.
But I think I mean the name ofthe podcast being Latter day
lights I think that that's areally big part of um of our
journey is is that but also likejust being able to shine a
light on what our mom wentthrough.

(57:30):
You know we went through somuch of this in secrecy and in
the quiet and feeling dramaticand and now shining a light on
what that can look like and Ijust think that the name of your
podcast has a few levels for meright now.

Right I just wanted to add to that that I feel like
there is I'm like a prettypractical I mean I know I have
anxiety so that's not superpractical but I feel like I'm a
pretty like level non-emotionallike highs and lows kind of
person and so same like I don'tI haven't experienced these

(58:12):
grand like and the heavensparted and I knew it was true.
It's like yeah this feels goodI want to do it and I'm ready to
commit to it type of a thingbut I do feel like sometimes in
church culture there's thisexpectation or this like um
message that I think not onpurpose but I think gets

(58:35):
repeated or perpetuated that umyou don't feel bad things when
you have a testimony a strongtestimony and I think um I oh
well I just feel that's nottrue.
I mean Jesus felt and wept andfelt a lot of things like there

(58:58):
is a lot of pain and a lot ofhard things and a lot of
experiences and I think likewe're told that's part of why
we're here.
So the gospel's not gonna justyou know people will say well
I'm sad but I know I'll see themagain I'm like hmm that feels
very abstract and far away to melike I just actually feel sad.
And the plan of salvationdoesn't really take away that

(59:24):
sadness for me personally Ithere are a couple scriptures I
love for that reason there's apromise in um I think it's
Proverbs that God will bless uslike here right now.
And so I'm like yes thank you Ineed to know that you have my
back like today I'm so glad thatthings are going to work out in
eternity and I will bepleasantly surprised when I get

(59:46):
there but I'm like how can youhelp me today?
Because today I need to knowthat you are real not like when
I died like I want to know rightnow that you have my back and
And so I feel like that has beenmaybe like a little bit

(01:00:06):
different of a perspective thanI feel like maybe is
traditional.
I feel like I even with Mollylike I don't think a whole lot
about what it will be like toreunite with her mom because
that's really painful and reallyfar away and really abstract.
And my brain doesn'tnecessarily think like that.
And so I'm like, things that Ithink are the equivalent to

(01:00:30):
that.
I will give you just a littleexample that sunflowers are um
comedy.
Yeah.
Sunflowers are our sign fromour mom that she's still here.
Um we have seen them.
There was one growing under myin the rocks under my back deck

(01:00:51):
in Maine where nothing grows onmy birthday.
There was one on the surgicalcap of the nurse who was doing
Molly's IMF treatments.
There is like it's just theyshow up in random places at
random times all the time, andwe're like, oh, it's Ma.
Like, oh, she's real or God'sreal or whatever.

(01:01:11):
Um, and so the other day, um, Idon't know if you guys are
familiar with Brooke White, butshe was on American Idol, which
is LDS, like way back in theday.
And my kids grew up listeningto the Calico album.
Um, love it, we love it, weknow every song.
And but then we kind of likelost track of her.
Um, I don't even know if shewas still making music or

(01:01:33):
anything, but last week mydaughter, she's ran down the
stairs.
She's like, Mom, Brooke Whitehas a new song, and guess what
it's called?
It's called Sunflowers.
And um, a couple hours later,we got the email from the police
department of the case files,and it had all this intense
information.
And I am not kidding, like Iliterally felt like the words of
the song were like the words ofa mom, like our mom to us.

(01:01:59):
Like it says in there multipletimes, like, you have what you
need inside of you, and thethings that weigh you down from
the past, you know, like you gotit, you can do this.
And Molly Mary just like, ofcourse, like that song is
released within hours of usgetting this information into
someone else that might feellike whatever.

(01:02:22):
Um, but that's like theequivalent for me of feeling
like I'll get to see her, youknow, like the plan of
salvation.
Like, I feel like God knows thatI need I need reminders now for
it to mean anything, um for itto give me any glimpse of the

(01:02:44):
future, I guess.
Um so I kind of always feelfunny like in early society
because I'm like, yeah, I'mstill sad.
Or I'm still what uh like that.
Actually was really painful.

Molly Johnson (01:02:56):
Um but anyways, I don't know how to like really
express that very well, but youdid great.
Thanks.

Jessie Lake (01:03:06):
I also don't cry, so that was a gift, hey, you and
me both.

Scott Brandley (01:03:16):
Although when I was a bishop, I cried like a
baby on many occasions, but umso this might be a little bit
hard to talk about, but likewhat about forgiveness and
mercy?
How does that play into whathappened with you guys?
Because it that's such a brutalthing we'd have to experience,

(01:03:38):
and it and there was a lot oftrauma there.
Does is how does that play intoyour life?

Well, I think the most direct is about my dad.
Um, I'm assuming that you knowI feel like that's where we're
headed with that.
And um I want nothing to dowith him.
I'll be honest, like I don'thave love for him and I don't

(01:04:06):
hope to see him again.
Um, but what I did for him is Idid his temple work on my
mission and I washed my handsand I'm done.
Um like I'm not gonna be I'mnot gonna play into his
narrative of like any more, likeI don't want to be manipulated
anyway.
So I'm like, here, you havethis, I have nothing else to

(01:04:28):
give you, and I'm done.
And I think that that's all I'masking of myself right now, um,
as as a way of forgiveness.
I think I'm gonna say that wasmerciful of me.
I didn't have to do that, but II felt like it was important
that I wasn't any any reasonthat he could be held back or

(01:04:51):
something.
Like I'm done, I have no ties,I've I've done it all.
Um, so that's as that's all I'mever gonna ask, or I feel like
I'm gonna ask of myself in thislife where I'm at right now.

I don't know how you feel, but yeah, I felt like
um again, I'm not great withabstract.
So I'm like, how do you forgivesomeone that you can't have a
conversation with?
Like he's not here to apologizeor to under like, were you did
you regret it?
Did you not?
Like, was that did it go theway you want?
You know, it's like verystrange.
Um and so I spent a really longtime thinking, of course I

(01:05:32):
forgave him because I didn'thave any feelings towards him.
But what I've come to realizein the recent past is I just
erased him.
So I didn't necessarily forgivehim, but I did choose to block
out his presence in mynarrative.
And I focused on Molly and mymom and I and the good things.

(01:05:54):
And um, so I think I have feltangry for the first time,
really, since this has happenedwith after reading the case
files.
And so I think I'm at like anew stage of grief.
Like, I think I'm like, oh wow,I actually do think I might

(01:06:16):
have a little bit of anger, butit's never been like a like you
know how sometimes like angercan just like eat you uh up
inside and you like I don'tnecessarily have like Molly
said, like I don't sit here andlike wish bad things upon him.

(01:06:39):
I just don't want anything todo, like I don't want anything
to do with him.
It has recently felt a littlefrustrating because um his kids
have been really difficult withMolly in kind of perpetuating
this being silent and notsharing our story and not really

(01:07:00):
helping with any informationand some other things that I'm
like I'm getting tired of thesepeople having the last the final
say.
They say no, or he says my momdoesn't get to live and it
doesn't, and she doesn't, andthey say they're not gonna share
the information and then wedon't get it.
And um just feeling somefrustration with that, but also

(01:07:23):
feeling like it's given usfreedom to to share our own
story and to use our own voiceto um I don't know, to kind of
share like where what we haveexperienced, and um I don't
know.
I don't know where I'm at withforgiveness.
I don't have bad feelingstowards him, and I don't have

(01:07:46):
loving feelings.
I just kind of have no feelingsmixed with a little bit of
newfound anger, I feel like.

Yeah, well the reason I ask, yeah, the reason I
ask is because I mean it'ssomething you've gone through as
most people don't, right?
And we we talk aboutforgiveness as if it's something
that you can almost dooffhanded to somebody that
offends you, right?
But what happens when it'ssomething extreme?
You know, how does how doesthat work?

(01:08:21):
So I was just curious to on howhow you guys have have dealt
with that.
That's really interesting, yourresponses, and and you know, I
think you're right.
Sometimes forgiveness has to bea process and it could take
decades.
Maybe even the your whole lifecould take an eternity, right?

Alisha Coakley (01:08:40):
Literally, like it, I I mean, obviously, I
haven't had anything like thishappen, but but when you're
talking about the trauma andstuff that was inflicted because
of his choices, that's thething that to me personally,
it's like you do have to liveevery day with the fact that he
he murdered your mom.
And I know a lot of peoplemight look at that and think

(01:09:02):
that that's the biggest thing.
But because of all of thethings that he did when you were
when you guys were younger,you're not just trying to
forgive him for one violent actthat was horrendous.
You're trying to give him forthe million tiny little acts
that were more subtle andmalicious and manipulative, and

(01:09:22):
like it's not as simple as justforgiving the one big thing
that's loud and bright.
It's every single little tinyhole that he put in your boat,
you know?
And what you were saying, andespecially, you know, when you
were talking about like yourbaptism and stuff, because the
gospel, living the gospel has alot of a lot of healing power,

(01:09:45):
and it gives you a lot of powerin general to get through
things.
Um, the atonement is definitelythere for every single
situation that we have, right?
Christ can absolutely lift ourburdens, heal our pains, he can
make us whole again.
But also sometimes he lets usbe unhealed for a very long time

(01:10:10):
because there are a milliondifferent lessons that we need
to learn.
And it's not that he'sinflicting the pain, it's that
he's letting us sit in it,knowing that that pain is going
to be something that's gonna beused for our good.
Sometimes I love thatscripture, sometimes I hate it.
All things will be used to ourgood, right?

(01:10:32):
And um, I do know that there isdefinitely a power in being
able to forgive, but I don't Idon't think that I don't think
that you have to put so muchstress on yourself to forgive
very like in any specific timeperiod, or in any specific way.

Like, what does that work necessarily mean?
Like in action, you know, likecould you label what Molly did
in the temple for her dad asforgiveness?
Sure.
What someone else maybe notlabel that as forgiveness, sure.
Like, I think our definition ofit, we put pressure even on
ourselves to say we've done it.

(01:11:13):
And it's like, well, what youwant me to say the words?
Do you want me to like whatdoes that mean in real life when
it's not a verbal apology?
I am sorry.
Oh, thank you.
I accept, you know, like so.
What does it look like when itisn't that?
And I think I think for mepersonally, it's not living a

(01:11:37):
life of anger and resentment.
Like I think we've lived areally we are living a really
full and beautiful good life inthe midst of really hard

(01:11:58):
experiences.
And I think that I mean, for meright now, that's my definition
of sure.
I forget.

Well, I think it's been cool to see your
relationship together, the twoof you.
Um you can definitely tell thatyou guys love each other and
you have a close bond.
Um, let's kind of wrap this upon a positive note.
Like you said, it's Latter daylights, and I know that you guys
found some found some reallycool things when you're going

(01:12:30):
through your mom's stuff.
So let maybe tell us about thatstory.

Yeah, well, we weren't the ones to pack up our
house after our mom died.
Movers did that, and they umjust you know, take absolutely
everything and put it into a boxand label it.
And so a couple of years afterum she died, we're going through
boxes and in the box labeledlinen closet, there were towels

(01:12:54):
and linens and things like that.
But there was also a manilaenvelope with um manuscripts,
eight children's manuscripts,and their cover letters, and um
some like magazine printoutswith different publishing houses
and um and and plans for whichmanuscript would go to this

(01:13:16):
publisher and this publishinghouse.
And she had organized all thesethings and and then put it in
an envelope.
And so we found them a coupleyears later, but I mean Jessie
was in the middle of raising me,and her husband was in school,
and just like living life, youknow, and so over the years
we've discovered them and andread them and put them back and

(01:13:40):
brought them out again and thenput them back.
And um recently we um havereally latched on to the dream
of making it happen.
We feel like we're at a time inour life where we can do that
and help her to fulfill herdream.
So she wrote eight children'smanuscripts.
There's seven that we'llprobably um publish for the

(01:14:01):
public.
One of them is um just likefrom a different time um and not
as PC.
Yeah, just just like herwording and the things that she
said.
Like we would have to changeher words a lot to make it
something that we could sell.
They were all written in theearly 80s.
So they're yeah.

(01:14:23):
Yeah, and and it was all, Imean, there's nothing negative
or anything, but it just herwords maybe weren't as wouldn't
be as well received today.
And so rather than change them,we're just gonna keep those for
our that one for ourselves, andwe'll move forward with the
other seven.
And so um right now we don'twe're both Jesse homeschools our

(01:14:43):
kids.
I'm a stay-at-home mom.
I don't homeschool, I just playwith play-doh.
Um, but we don't know anythingabout like the publishing
process or children's literatureor anything like that beyond
loving books ourselves, just asour mom did.
And so um we are kind oflearning as we go through this
process.
We're in the fundraisingprocess right now to help um pay

(01:15:04):
for illustrations and comingmarketing costs and things like
that.
But it's been really special torevisit this project at this
time when you know we just had20 years.
We're learning so many morethings about what her experience
was and just how silent shereally was about her experience.
Um we we've talked to so manypeople uh these last few months,

(01:15:29):
just trying to understand whatthey knew.
And the honest truth is theyknew so little.
She wasn't sharing, she waskeeping that private and she was
shouldering that on her own.
Um and um and so this has allcome at like a really tender
time, and it's been important tous to fulfill this dream that

(01:15:52):
she had.
Jesse said, you know, they werefrom the 80s and she died in
2005, and no, it's 2025.
So it's been years and yearsand years that these have this
dream of hers has been literallytucked in a manila envelope.
Um, and so right now we're justin the process of bringing her
words to the public, publishingthem, illustrating these books

(01:16:15):
so that our kids can read themand we can read them, and other
people can read them and and seethat yeah, he made this choice
and he tried to silence her, butlike her words live on, and her
dream is living on, and it'snow become our dream to be able
to facilitate this for her.

(01:16:36):
And just I feel so stronglyabout having more of her in my
life.
I want my kids to know hervoice, I want my kids to know
her face, um, and to be familiarwith her.
And if the only way that thatcan be is through pictures and
her writing, then like by golly,we're gonna do it.

(01:16:56):
There's just there's no otheroption in in my mind.
So we're in that process rightnow of the illustrations.
Jessie's kind of spearheadingthat side of things and working
through all of that.
And I just the cheerleader,hurrah.

I love that.
So tell us, because we haveconnections, right?
Like Scott and I, we've got alot of authors and people in
publishing and media and thingslike that who have been guests
on the show, who have reachedout to us.
Um, so if anyone's listening orif we can do anything, what is
what would your ask be?
What could help to make this areality for you and for your

(01:17:39):
mom?

I mean, we found the illustrator, which was I
think our hardest.
I mean, that was really hardfor us to find something that
felt true to her.
Um, and is like also modern.

And um, but because our goal is to have it
feel like she had accomplishedthis in the 80s.

Yeah, so we are not really changing her words.
The editor that we're workingwith is like really actually
keeping it um, who knew, but nowit's gonna be historical kid
lit because the 80s are so longago.
So um it's not really changingmuch because it was like a
totally different writing styleback then for kids' books.
Um and so the illustrationsalso will look more authentic to

(01:18:26):
that time period.
Um and so that's neat andspecial for us.
But um I think for I don't knowwhat Molly would say.
For me, I would say the mostimportant thing for us is just
exposure.
Like we need people to know andto help raise money and so that

(01:18:47):
the books can get published,and to um honestly just like
raise awareness for domesticviolence and also for um, I
don't know, like I said before,like I just feel like it's so
important to feel validated inwhatever it is that you're

(01:19:08):
experiencing and um to know thatlike we all have a story, we
all have a past, we all havethings that we learn from, but
um that there really is so muchjoy and goodness and doing this
project has made us feelconnected to her in a way that I

(01:19:29):
don't think we ever reallyexpected to, and to feel like um
she's new to us again has beenjust a joy, I feel like, to be
able to feel close to her inthat way and to be able to kind
of open this back up for us.

So I don't know, that didn't really answer your
question, but yeah, I think yousaid it like exposure.
We need people to get us onKelly Clarkson.
Yeah, we need Oprah.
Yeah, are you out there, Oprah?
Um like I think I think we justneed to utilize any and all

(01:20:06):
platforms to be able to shareabout her story, including these
books, and to be able to umshine a light on domestic
violence and shine a light on umall parts of her journey
because she didn't she didn'tdeserve that end.
Um, and so it won't be her end.
Um we've made that reallyimportant to us, and so um I

(01:20:32):
don't know, it feels hard to askfor specific things because we
don't even we don't know whatwe're doing.

Gotcha.
So you see, you almost needkind of like a mentor to help
guide you to the next steps,would be maybe a really helpful
resource.
So we did have a guest, BridgetCook Birch.
She has, I mean, she's allthings publishing, and she
actually writes stories.
And I'm just thinking, I mean,I can I can't make any promises,

(01:21:00):
but I can reach out to her andI can see if this is something
that she can help with becauseshe writes stories um about
people who have gone throughsome really big traumatic uh
situations and stuff.
She's in that industry and shehelps writers to write their own
story too.
And I'm wondering if she mighthave some type of direction or
connection.

(01:21:21):
Um, you know, maybe even, Imean, she might even want to
write your mom's story, whichcould help with exposure.

Um no, I don't actually think it's a joke.
It's a joke, Bridget.
I don't know.

Let us let us put some feelers out there and
see if we can help you guys, youknow, at least with with
direction connections, somethinglike that.
Um, but obviously any guestswho are listening to the story
today, if you guys want to helpout, um, go ahead and and what's
the best way?
Do you want them to get incontact with us and then us

(01:21:59):
direct you?
Is there like a a way that theycan directly contact you guys?
Sure.

I mean, whatever feels natural.
We uh we're kind of sharingabout our journey and what we're
working on um through Instagrammostly.
Uh the handle is Barty Books.
Our mom's last name wasBartholomus.
Um, and so Barty Books is heris the handle on there.
And if they want us directly,then that's great.
Or if they want to go throughyou, we're open to it.

That's where you can see our cute mom and get to
know her.
And there's videos and picturesand stuff, and she just
honestly was the best, andyou'll love her if you go look
at it.

Okay.
Well, we'll be sure to put thatall of those links and stuff in
the description so everyone cango and they can check that out
and reach out to you guys viaInstagram, or you guys are
welcome to to emaillatterdaylights at gmail.com and
we can get people tied intogether.
So awesome.

(01:23:01):
Gosh.
Well, tell us, I mean, as we'rewrapping up here, you know,
this is this is that there'sbeen a lot in this.
Um, but are there any finalthoughts that you you ladies
have?
Uh anything you want to leavewith our listeners today?
I feel like I was the chattiestcave of all.

Yeah, but you were great at it.
Oh gosh, I just think everybodyhas a story to tell, you know.
Um, and I think it's it'sunfortunate that someone's
choices um resulted in, youknow, had had so many ripple
effects.
Um, but we have really decidedto kind of be a cycle breaker

(01:23:46):
and and stop those things frommoving forward.
We um want to be part of changeand have you know future
generations have it a little biteasier than we did.
And I don't know, I just I hopeeverybody knows how much we
love our mom, I guess.
I don't know.
I just we're we are not peoplewho love the spotlight.

(01:24:12):
Um if that wasn't evidence.
So we're we're doing thisbecause we love our mom and feel
like that was not her end, andum, and it won't be because of
that ditto.

Well, she has you, both of you, to carry on
her life and her memories andnow her stories.
So that's pretty awesome.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Oh man.
Well, you girls are just seeingin keep calling you girls,
you're not girls, you're women.
Um, I you're just awesome.
And the way that you love eachother and support each other,
and the way that you're keepingyour mom's memory alive and
really trying to focus on someof the good that she wanted to

(01:24:57):
bring to the world, I think it'sjust a really beautiful thing.
And um, and I know that it'sit's I know that it's not fair,
and I know that there's a lot ofthings that you're gonna have
to be continually aware of andworking on, and more things
you're gonna find out about thatyou're like, oh, I understand
why that happens now.
I'm hoping that as you continueto heal, that you'll just draw

(01:25:21):
closer and closer to the savior,and that you'll be able to
continue finding light in any ofthe little dark pieces that
that are kind of left behindfrom your past.
So thank you both for coming onhere today and for sharing your
story and sharing your mom'sstory with us.
Um, we really appreciate it andwe just wish you guys so much.

Thank you so much so much for having us.

Well, and thanks everyone for tuning in for
another episode of LatterdayLights.
And if you want to share yourstory, like Molly and Jesse, go
to latterdaylights.com or emailus at latterdaylights at
gmail.com.

Yep, absolutely.
Um, and guys, just do us afavor, do that five-second
missionary work, share Molly andJesse's story today, comment
with any thoughts that you guyshave had, any uh inspiration
that's come up for you.
And of course, like we said, ifyou're able to help, we would
love to make this stream areality.
So until next time, we thankyou guys for joining us for

(01:26:21):
Latter Day Lights, and we'll seeyou next Sunday with another
episode.
Have a good one.

Thanks.
Bye bye.

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Sunflowers After the Storm: Turning Their Mother's Tragic Death Into Hope & Light - Jessie Lake and Molly Johnson's Story

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Sunflowers After the Storm: Turning Their Mother's Tragic Death Into Hope & Light - Jessie Lake and Molly Johnson's Story