This Week in AI: OpenAI Changes Everything, Neo Robot, Nvidia To $5T, Grokipedia

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ejaaz: Welcome back to the weekly AI roundup. It's been another huge week. (00:03):
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Ejaaz: NVIDIA became the first company to cross $5 trillion in market value, (00:08):
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Ejaaz: but they're closely followed behind by Apple and Microsoft to cross $4 trillion (00:12):
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Ejaaz: in market cap value. Some big numbers being thrown around. (00:17):
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Ejaaz: OpenAI had a pretty controversial week. They restructured their entire company, (00:20):
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Ejaaz: but they also revealed their secret plans for AGI over the next 10 years. (00:23):
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Ejaaz: Elon Musk decided to release an AI version of Wikipedia called Grokipedia, (00:27):
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Ejaaz: powered by their flagship model Grok. We'll get into that. (00:33):
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Ejaaz: And finally, there is a new humanoid robot available to you for the cheap price of $499 per month. (00:36):
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Ejaaz: Josh, there's a lot to get through to today. (00:44):
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Ejaaz: Starting off with all the open AI news, There's two main things to discuss here. (00:47):
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Ejaaz: They made two big announcements. (00:53):
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Ejaaz: One was their vision for the next 10 years on achieving AGI. (00:54):
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Ejaaz: And the second thing was on the restructuring. Starting with the AGI side of (00:57):
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Ejaaz: things, Sam Altman came on live stream with his chief scientist, (01:01):
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Ejaaz: Jakub, to describe what the vision of OpenAI is. (01:06):
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Ejaaz: And I think this is in response to a lot of people saying, Sam, (01:10):
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Ejaaz: like, do you have your best intentions at heart? (01:14):
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Ejaaz: You keep saying that, but then your actions are kind of producing products that (01:16):
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Ejaaz: might seem kind of consumery and not really big thinking, are you still focused on AGI? (01:19):
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Ejaaz: So this is kind of like clearing the plate here. And there's three main takeaways (01:25):
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Ejaaz: that I got from this that I found interesting. (01:28):
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Ejaaz: Number one, Sam has extended his deadline to achieving AGI. (01:31):
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Ejaaz: He says he's going to achieve it within 10 years, and it's going to be a slower (01:35):
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Ejaaz: transition than initially expected. (01:40):
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Ejaaz: He describes it as achieving AGI gradually over a number of different years. (01:42):
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Ejaaz: This is interesting to me because we're finally achieving a realistic timeline, (01:48):
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Ejaaz: in my opinion, versus some kind of like hype headline where we're just kind (01:53):
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Ejaaz: of like thinking it's going to arrive tomorrow. (01:57):
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Ejaaz: Number two, he's started giving solid milestones on this. (01:59):
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Ejaaz: He says in 2026, the deep learning that OpenAI is conducting internally will (02:03):
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Ejaaz: result in an AGI level science model, which will perform kind of at the caliber (02:08):
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Ejaaz: of an AI research intern. (02:14):
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Ejaaz: And then he says two years later in 2028, they'll have an AI researcher level model. (02:16):
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Ejaaz: So you go from intern to research grade performance, which is super cool. (02:21):
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Ejaaz: And the final point that really interested me was around compute. (02:25):
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Ejaaz: Josh, they've spent or committed around $1.4 trillion on data centers right (02:28):
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Ejaaz: now, which is roughly the equivalent of 30 gigawatts. It's a huge amount of compute. (02:34):
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Ejaaz: But what shocked me the most was he came out and said that his eventual plan (02:39):
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Ejaaz: is to have a factory built every week that produces a gigawatt of power. (02:45):
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Ejaaz: That's about $20 billion of compute per week. (02:50):
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Ejaaz: All really huge numbers kind of took my breath away. Josh, what's your take? (02:53):
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Josh: OpenAI is just doing what everyone kind of knows they were always going to do. (02:59):
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Josh: They very quickly realized they can't be a non-for-profit. They are now becoming (03:03):
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Josh: a for-profit organization. (03:06):
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Josh: In fact, it's a public benefit corporation. So it's a PBC, not an LLC or a Z-Corp (03:08):
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Josh: or anything, which means the intention is to be kind of aligned with public (03:12):
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Josh: interest, but basically it just blows the cap off of everything. (03:16):
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Josh: And this is a really big deal. (03:19):
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Josh: EJ, you mentioned that, or you mentioned to me actually earlier, (03:20):
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Josh: and this was news to me, that Sam Altman expressed interest in going public. (03:23):
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Josh: I think there's a big opportunity here to talk about how much money can be made by. (03:27):
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Josh: OpenAI going public and by kind of restructuring this. So the restructuring deal is interesting. (03:32):
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Josh: Are we ready to talk about that? Can we go into this like crazy chaotic restructuring (03:38):
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Josh: that's happening? Okay. (03:42):
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Josh: This is fascinating to me. So on screen, there is a disastrous diagram with a bunch of arrows. (03:43):
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Josh: A lot of it is kind of hand-waving, not important. The things that matter, (03:48):
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Josh: Microsoft owns a large percentage of the nonprofit. (03:51):
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Josh: The nonprofit quickly realized they needed to become a for-profit. (03:54):
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Josh: They had a capped upside on the previous version, but now they do not. (03:57):
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Josh: So Microsoft was limited previously to a 100x return on their investment. (04:00):
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Josh: Now there is no return on the investment or no limit to the return on the investment. (04:04):
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Josh: And this is interesting for a few things, Ejaz, because one, (04:09):
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Josh: I am very resentful of OpenAI because they are very clearly the fastest growing AI company in the world. (04:12):
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Josh: And I have no way to get exposure to them. That doesn't feel like it's aligned with the public. (04:18):
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Josh: Sam Altman is taking all the money for himself. He's throwing it at GPUs and I get no upside. (04:22):
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Josh: That doesn't feel right. this is open AI, you're a public benefit company. (04:27):
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Josh: Why are you not benefiting me as a member of the public? (04:30):
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Josh: Second to this is that Microsoft now seems to be the best way to get exposure (04:33):
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Josh: because there is this like, (04:38):
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Josh: there is this way of getting access to open AI when they IPO, (04:40):
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Josh: but open AI and Microsoft are now, or Microsoft's not the biggest stakeholder (04:43):
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Josh: in the open AI company at 27% versus the open AI non-for-profit, which is actually 26%. (04:47):
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Josh: So the largest form of exposure is through Microsoft. They have uncapped profits (04:53):
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Josh: and they are reporting earnings, I think, this week. (04:58):
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Josh: So Microsoft might be the best way to get exposure to OpenAI currently, but... (05:01):
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Josh: OpenAI as a whole has kind of disappointed me through this whole process because (05:07):
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Josh: it's all been very hand wavy and not really aligned with, I think, (05:10):
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Josh: the public intention that they stated, just because they've always been this (05:15):
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Josh: big for profit entity disguised as a nonprofit. (05:18):
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Ejaaz: Yeah, I completely agree with a lot of the points you made. (05:21):
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Ejaaz: And to just kind of give the listeners a bit of context here, (05:25):
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Ejaaz: OpenAI founded in 2015 as a nonprofit. (05:30):
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Ejaaz: It was set up as a nonprofit org with this ambitious vision of we are going (05:33):
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Ejaaz: to achieve AGI and we are going to provide it to the people. (05:37):
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Ejaaz: So everyone should have access to this super powerful technology. (05:40):
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Ejaaz: Then four years later, in 2019, they decided, we kind of want to make a bit (05:43):
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Ejaaz: of money from this and we need to raise a lot of capital. (05:48):
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Ejaaz: So in 2019, they set up a for-profit structure, but it was owned by the non-profit. (05:51):
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Ejaaz: So they could still get away with saying, hey, we're a non-profit. (05:56):
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Ejaaz: But it was capped, as you said, Josh, to any investor for 100x, just 100x returns. (05:59):
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Ejaaz: So a lot of feedback they've been getting and a lot of pressure they've been (06:05):
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Ejaaz: getting from future investors or current investors recently is, (06:07):
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Ejaaz: hey, we want to make more money on this deal. (06:11):
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Ejaaz: It's unfair that we're investing billions in you. (06:13):
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Ejaaz: Microsoft invested $13 billion and we want more upside than 100x. (06:16):
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Ejaaz: So Sam went to the drawing board and was like, okay, we can create a new structure (06:21):
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Ejaaz: called a public benefit corporation, which, as you said, now has uncapped gains. It's pretty crazy. (06:26):
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Ejaaz: So now you can just make as much money as you can on a normal private company (06:31):
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Ejaaz: that you were investing in. (06:36):
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Ejaaz: And the biggest point around this is on this diagram here, you'll see if you (06:37):
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Ejaaz: zoom in, if you squint, Microsoft, minority owner, they are now no longer a minority owner. (06:41):
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Ejaaz: Like you said, they are the majority owner, which is just crazy. (06:47):
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Ejaaz: But I'll tell you a few other reasons why Microsoft is a huge winner from all (06:50):
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Ejaaz: of this. It's not just money. (06:54):
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Ejaaz: It's not just the fact that their $13 billion stake is now worth $135 billion. What a crazy return. (06:55):
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Ejaaz: But they still maintain exclusive access and rights to all of OpenAI's research (07:03):
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Ejaaz: IP, which means that any kind of new model that they release, (07:09):
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Ejaaz: Microsoft basically has the first say and exclusive access to provide it to (07:14):
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Ejaaz: their partners, to their customers and any clients and enterprise clients that (07:18):
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Ejaaz: they wanna bring in in the future. (07:21):
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Ejaaz: Secondly, and this was a genius move, Josh, they set a standard. (07:23):
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Ejaaz: They said, listen, OpenAI, We will relieve all our exclusive access and IP access (07:28):
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Ejaaz: only once you've achieved AGI. (07:34):
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Ejaaz: But of course, the obvious question is, what the hell is AGI? (07:36):
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Ejaaz: How do you determine what AGI is? There's so much discussion around what the hell this thing is. (07:40):
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Ejaaz: So they said, we'll leave it to an expert party of third-party analysts. (07:44):
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Ejaaz: So it's a panel which is going to decide and determine OpenAI's fate going forward. (07:49):
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Ejaaz: So the winner of all of this, this restructuring, this OpenAI vision announcement, (07:54):
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Ejaaz: is actually Microsoft, and it's just crazy to see it. (07:58):
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Josh: Okay, so how do you navigate this as a participant who wants to get wealthy off of AI? (08:02):
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Josh: There is a few ways. I think for people who observe public markets, (08:06):
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Josh: you'll know the fact that Apple is sitting at all-time high, (08:10):
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Josh: Microsoft sitting at all-time high, Google, basically across the board, (08:12):
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Josh: everyone is sitting at all-time highs, which I believe is high signal. (08:15):
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Josh: Clearly, things are working. Clearly, a lot is being spent. Clearly, (08:18):
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Josh: there is some sort of a bubble, but the end is not quite near. (08:21):
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Josh: The big question that I have is like, come on, how do I get access to OpenAI (08:25):
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Josh: if you don't, if you're not an accredited investor, if you can't figure out (08:28):
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Josh: how to get private shares, the answer right now is just Microsoft. (08:31):
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Josh: Nobody in the world owns more shares, not even OpenAI themselves, than Microsoft does. (08:34):
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Josh: And Microsoft, like you said, EJS, they have access to their IP, (08:39):
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Josh: they get access to a revenue share, they get access to actual equity within the company. (08:42):
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Josh: And if you believe in the success of OpenAI at a scale that we do, (08:46):
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Josh: which is many, many trillions of dollars of market cap, 27% of that is not to be laughed at. (08:49):
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Josh: And I mean, Microsoft is a $4 trillion dollar company in the case that (08:53):
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Josh: open ai makes it to that level that is another nearly (08:56):
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Josh: trillion dollars in microsoft's pocket which (09:00):
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Josh: is a really big deal so it is unfortunate that (09:03):
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Josh: it gets diluted out through the form of having to buy the same (09:06):
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Josh: company that makes microsoft office which is just like an abomination my (09:09):
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Josh: personal opinion at least but um i think that is the way to kind of navigate (09:12):
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Josh: this forward until we do get the eventual ipo from the open ai team like sam (09:16):
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Josh: allman discussed so that's kind of how i'm thinking about navigating it is like (09:20):
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Josh: i want access sam's being a little a little closed closed with that um but microsoft (09:23):
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Josh: is probably your your path to success there that's. (09:28):
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Ejaaz: So interesting i i read it kind of the uh in (09:30):
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Ejaaz: a different way josh which is the gloves are now finally off (09:34):
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Ejaaz: open ai doesn't have the constraint of having to lop as a non-profit organization (09:37):
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Ejaaz: it's quite clearly a for-profit um the foundation owns equity stake in this (09:41):
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Ejaaz: so i think sam will probably move quite quickly on an ipo because he needs so (09:45):
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Ejaaz: much capital if he wants to get to a gigawatt factory per week, like he says. (09:50):
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Josh: That's probably going to be the biggest IPO ever. (09:55):
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Josh: Right. Like, I think right now, OpenAI and SpaceX are kind of neck and neck (09:57):
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Josh: for most valuable private company in the world. (10:00):
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Josh: And when that company goes public, (10:03):
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Josh: my God, the amount of volume that is going to be traded on day one. (10:05):
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Ejaaz: I'll be buying. (10:08):
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Josh: Shout out to the early employees who got stock in OpenAI. My gosh, (10:10):
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Josh: you are about to buy very, very, very, very luxe houses. (10:14):
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Josh: But I guess that's it for OpenAI. This is a really fun topic that I've been (10:17):
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Josh: dying to talk about, which is human order robotics. (10:20):
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Josh: I love human order robotics. And the first one has hit the market, (10:22):
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Josh: or at least so they say. say. (10:26):
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Josh: We're not entirely sure where this stands. Do you want to introduce everyone (10:28):
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Josh: to the OneX Neo humanoid home robot? What the hell is it? What does it do? How does it work? (10:31):
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Ejaaz: Yes. So if you remember on a previous episode, actually last week, (10:38):
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Ejaaz: we spoke about the new figure humanoid robot where it can enter your home, (10:41):
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Ejaaz: it could do a bunch of things, but it can also do a bunch of like other things (10:45):
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Ejaaz: like manufacturing jobs, service jobs and all that kind of stuff. (10:48):
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Ejaaz: This is the latest humanoid robot to come out of a company called OneX. (10:50):
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Ejaaz: And my first impressions of it Josh can I can I can I be honest with you can I be honest I'd (10:56):
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Josh: Love for you to be nothing but honest. (11:00):
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Ejaaz: It looks like a grown-up Teletubby (11:01):
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Ejaaz: I don't mean that in a demeaning way. Let me skip ahead to show you like a clip of this thing. (11:06):
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Ejaaz: It's kind of like in this soft, it's wearing a soft suit. It's got a very pleasant (11:11):
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Ejaaz: looking face. It's got these kind of like glow up ears. (11:16):
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Ejaaz: It looks like an adult alien Teletubby, but it's comforting to be around. (11:19):
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Ejaaz: And in terms of like what it can do, it's this humanoid robot that can live (11:24):
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Ejaaz: in your home and it can do all the things you would kind of expect a houseware robot to do. (11:28):
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Ejaaz: It can clean your dishes, it can put away the groceries, it can lift things. (11:32):
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Ejaaz: I think it has like a lifting capacity of 55 pounds, which is pretty crazy for (11:36):
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Ejaaz: something that weighs 60 pounds. (11:40):
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Ejaaz: I don't know how those mechanics work. I'm not a physicist, but that is pretty insane to see. (11:42):
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Ejaaz: And this video is like a really high production thing, Josh. (11:46):
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Ejaaz: I don't know how much they invested in this, but if the robot that we eventually (11:50):
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Ejaaz: get in our homes in 2026, for the people that are ordering this for 500 bucks (11:53):
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Ejaaz: or buying it outright for $20,000, which is a hefty price tag, (11:57):
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Ejaaz: if it gets anywhere near something like this, I think it's going to completely change the game. (12:02):
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Ejaaz: I would personally get something like this in my home. Josh, (12:06):
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Ejaaz: have you put down the payment on this? Absolutely. What are you doing here? (12:09):
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Josh: No, not at all. Again, here's the tale of two wolves where I am a techno optimist (12:13):
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Josh: who is rooted in reality. (12:17):
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Josh: And I have been around long enough. I have seen enough of these videos that (12:20):
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Josh: look very beautiful and lovely and very welcoming to have a humanoid robot. (12:23):
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Josh: But EJ, how many people have humanoid robots in their house? A total of zero. (12:28):
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Josh: It just doesn't exist. No one shipped them to market. A few things that are (12:31):
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Josh: important to know about this robot. It is, like you mentioned, $20,000 or $500 a month. (12:35):
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Josh: And it does the following. It is able to do basic tests like laundry, (12:39):
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Josh: possibly the dishes, possibly vacuuming. (12:43):
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Josh: We're not entirely sure. And the problem with that is that if it can't do the (12:47):
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Josh: task, you have to use this thing. I believe they call it expert mode. (12:51):
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Josh: Now, expert mode is the giant red flag waving in the sky for me because expert (12:54):
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Josh: mode is the highest signal that this is not ready to enter the market. (12:59):
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Josh: Expert mode means if it's not able to do the thing you want, (13:05):
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Josh: you can schedule a time with the Neo team and someone from the headquarters (13:08):
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Josh: or wherever they're based will get into this little VR suit and manually walk (13:12):
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Josh: the robot through your home to do the task for you. (13:17):
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Josh: So instead of having a maid come to your house, you get some tech engineer, (13:20):
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Josh: put on some goggles, and he is walking through your personal space doing the (13:24):
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Josh: task that you want to do, that you've scheduled ahead of time in order to make this happen. (13:28):
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Josh: And I believe that is what part of that monthly $500 a month thing is, (13:32):
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Josh: is you're actually, you're paying hours of labor for humans to do the emulated (13:36):
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Josh: version inside of this humanoid robot. (13:42):
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Josh: So that to me is a really big red flag. The second red flag that I want to serve (13:45):
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Josh: before I'll pass back to you, AJ, is the fact that this is a pre-order. (13:48):
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Josh: You're not buying a robot. You are buying the rights to a future robot. (13:52):
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Josh: And there is no guarantees that this robot will ever exist at scale, (13:55):
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Josh: nor will it exist to the extent that it's shown in this video. (13:59):
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Josh: And it's one of those things, and we've seen this with It's like, (14:02):
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Josh: show me, don't tell me. And I'm seeing a lot of these really lovely demos. (14:05):
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Josh: But until this thing is actually produced and until this thing gets shipped (14:10):
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Josh: and until it arrives at people's houses, I am going to be sitting here a little (14:13):
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Josh: skeptical because a lot of the companies like... (14:17):
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Josh: I'll use Tesla as an example. They have a proven track record of building really (14:21):
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Josh: badass manufacturing, hardcore engineering stuff. (14:24):
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Josh: These startups don't really have any track record of manufacturing hard things. (14:27):
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Josh: And a humanoid robot is an incredibly difficult thing to manufacture. (14:30):
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Josh: So when they say pre-orders and delivery in 2026, well, I assume the best case (14:34):
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Josh: is like December 31st, 2026. (14:38):
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Josh: I would be shocked if they deliver these at scale before that. (14:40):
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Josh: But I'm wondering if you have if you have a different take on that. (14:42):
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Ejaaz: Sadly, no, I am not going to pay the equivalent (14:45):
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Ejaaz: of half a month's rent uh well (14:48):
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Ejaaz: maybe not in new york but some in some other state um to (14:51):
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Ejaaz: get some third party that is wearing a (14:54):
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Ejaaz: metamorph suit and acting like a shitty uh version (14:57):
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Ejaaz: of avatar um the movie to navigate my robot and clean my clothes i would rather (15:00):
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Ejaaz: spend that money to get some actual house help to to come in and help me out (15:06):
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Ejaaz: with all the things that we're seeing on this video so far okay i have one simple (15:10):
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Ejaaz: rule if you are going to advertise a next generation humanoid robot that is autonomous, (15:14):
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Ejaaz: it should be autonomous. (15:20):
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Ejaaz: And don't sell me something that it needs to be teleoperated. (15:23):
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Ejaaz: It makes sense in the case of something like self-driving cars. (15:26):
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Ejaaz: Waymo, I know, has a tele operation thing. That makes sense because there's (15:30):
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Ejaaz: a lot of safety and stuff involved. (15:33):
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Ejaaz: But for something that is consumer-friendly, for something that is meant to (15:34):
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Ejaaz: make my life a hell of a lot easier in my most private space ever at home, (15:37):
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Ejaaz: it should be fully autonomous. (15:42):
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Ejaaz: And let alone the home is like the most private place, right, Josh? (15:43):
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Ejaaz: Like I have all my valuables here. I don't want some dude in a third world country, (15:47):
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Ejaaz: sorry, navigating around my house and picking stuff up and putting it down. What if they break it? (15:51):
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Ejaaz: What if they do something wrong? Who's liable for that? Do I get insurance with this thing? (15:55):
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Ejaaz: I have no idea. And then tacking on a $20,000 price tag to buy this thing outright. (15:59):
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Ejaaz: If you are buying this outright for $20,000, I'm going to go ahead and say that (16:04):
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Ejaaz: you are kind of like an idiot at that extent. (16:08):
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Ejaaz: Like, I do not advise doing this. (16:12):
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Ejaaz: And then the second point you made, Josh, I think is the more prescient point, which is, (16:14):
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Ejaaz: this thing hasn't been built yet. This hasn't been produced at scale. (16:19):
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Ejaaz: This thing isn't going to come into your home. It's not even guaranteed to come (16:23):
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Ejaaz: into your home until like sometime in 2026. (16:26):
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Ejaaz: By that time, you're going to have other robot companies like Unitree, (16:29):
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Ejaaz: like Figure, come out with their actual robot, which is being built and scaled. (16:32):
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Ejaaz: I have no idea where 1X is as a manufacturing company. (16:35):
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Ejaaz: You've mentioned several times actually on our show, Josh, that one of the bullish (16:39):
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Ejaaz: cases on Tesla's Optimus robot is the fact that Elon is such a manufacturing nerd. (16:44):
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Ejaaz: He's so good at scaling. And I just don't see this or want to trust this with a robot startup. (16:50):
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Josh: Yeah, I don't want to call people dumb for spending $20,000 because if I had (16:55):
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Josh: a disposable $20,000, I would certainly be an early adopter. (16:58):
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Josh: Maybe we can refer to that. (17:01):
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Josh: One of the weird edge case questions that I have is like, okay, (17:03):
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Josh: you pay $500 a month, then what? Like, what if I don't want it anymore? (17:06):
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Josh: Is there like a repo man that comes? Does the robot walk out of my house? (17:09):
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Josh: How does that work? The teleoperation thing, it's a serious problem. (17:12):
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Josh: Um, granted you can schedule it, but I imagine myself like, Oh, (17:16):
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Josh: you walk out of the shower and here is like some, some dude from like wherever he's from. (17:19):
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Josh: He's just like, like, hi, I'm just cleaning your windows. (17:22):
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Josh: It's this really weird, like intimate distraction. (17:25):
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Josh: Um, and I think the open-endedness of that expert mode relative to the set amounts (17:28):
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Josh: of chores that the robot can do leaves a lot to be desired or just a lot of (17:34):
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Josh: unknowns where if I do spend all this money, I don't actually know what it's capable of doing. (17:39):
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Josh: They say it could do a few things, but there's a lot of edge cases. (17:43):
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Josh: Everyone's houses are different. (17:45):
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Josh: Just a little uncertain on this robot. But again, happy people pushing this (17:46):
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Josh: forward. I think this is great progress. I love the vision. (17:49):
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Josh: If the vision in the video becomes a reality, that is a life that I really am (17:53):
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Josh: excited about. That is a reality that is awesome. (17:57):
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Josh: So like shout out to the One X team for trying. They're pushing the ball forward. (17:59):
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Josh: I am not going to knock it too hard because I just admire their effort in making (18:02):
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Josh: this a reality. And like everything else, we'll see. (18:07):
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Josh: Ship the first robot. Let's see how it performs in homes. (18:09):
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Josh: Let's we'll see how it goes but this is, (18:14):
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Josh: I guess that's it for the robot stuff. Now we get into the cyberspace, (18:16):
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Josh: the world of Grok. Oh, hell yeah. (18:20):
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Josh: And Grokopedia has launched this week, EJ. So why is this a big deal? (18:22):
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Ejaaz: This is a huge deal for me because I grew up on Wikipedia and I used it to help (18:25):
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Ejaaz: me research and write a bunch of essays at high school and at college. (18:32):
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Ejaaz: I still used it up until a few days ago where I would like help me clarify something (18:36):
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Ejaaz: about like learning about some archaic thing, which I wouldn't be able to find (18:41):
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Ejaaz: anywhere. It is the internet's resource knowledge. (18:44):
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Ejaaz: Millions of people use it every single day. (18:47):
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Ejaaz: But there's one issue, which is I don't know whether this source of truth is actually the truth. (18:51):
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Ejaaz: And it's been something that we've been increasingly faced in society as things (18:57):
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Ejaaz: like social media become enveloped around the world, like everyone's making (19:02):
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Ejaaz: TikToks, everyone's learning their news from TikTok, from tweets. (19:05):
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Ejaaz: And so it becomes really murky in terms of like figuring out what that truth is. (19:09):
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Ejaaz: So Elon came out a few months ago, and it's (19:13):
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Ejaaz: crazy to say that this happened a few months ago and he said I think (19:16):
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Ejaaz: AI will be the best source of truth and so (19:20):
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Ejaaz: what I'm going to do as part of building out Grok which is xai's (19:22):
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Ejaaz: flagship AI model is create an AI (19:26):
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Ejaaz: version of Wikipedia so he built that and he probably aptly called it Grokipedia (19:29):
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Ejaaz: so what we're seeing in front of us right now is a demo of Grokipedia looks (19:35):
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Ejaaz: like a simple chat shewiti prompt bar except that you can search for everything (19:40):
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Ejaaz: and anything that you typically would in Wikipedia. (19:44):
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Ejaaz: And when you do so, you get this really neat little concise summary and intro (19:46):
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Ejaaz: on whatever topic, one we're seeing on the screen is the Tesla Cybertruck. (19:51):
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Ejaaz: And then it goes on to kind of dig into its early life, similar that you'd see (19:55):
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Ejaaz: on Wikipedia, how it was originated, and its site sources, Josh, (19:59):
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Ejaaz: throughout the entire thing. (20:05):
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Ejaaz: That to me is the most important part because typically in Wikipedia, (20:06):
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Ejaaz: they do this thing which is kind of hidden behind closed doors. (20:11):
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Ejaaz: Where they restrict the number of sources you can use as legitimate sources for your articles. (20:14):
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Ejaaz: And if you look at that list, and if you compare it to the black list, (20:21):
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Ejaaz: which is the very, very long list of sources which you can't quote, (20:25):
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Ejaaz: it starts limiting what can be factual and what can be opinionated. (20:29):
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Ejaaz: And it starts skewing a lot of people's opinions as to what is the truth or what is not. (20:34):
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Ejaaz: Grok, Grok, Grokpedia and Grok on the other hand is completely unbiased. (20:38):
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Ejaaz: It pulls sources from anywhere and everywhere and it does its own analysis to (20:42):
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Ejaaz: vindicate whether the source is legit or whether it's not. (20:46):
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Ejaaz: It does this in real time and it processes hundreds of millions of articles, (20:49):
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Ejaaz: sources, primary sources, secondary resources every single day. (20:53):
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Ejaaz: So I'm super excited about this because I'm, it's going to be my new research (20:57):
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Ejaaz: tool going forwards in terms of fact checking. (21:01):
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Josh: The purpose of Grok is to seek truth. That's kind of their, their end goal. (21:03):
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Josh: That's their stated goal. The same way that a lot of these other companies like (21:06):
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Josh: OpenAI was to have open source AI. (21:09):
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Josh: Grok's is just to seek truth. And I think with Grok5, they're really making (21:11):
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Josh: an attempt to lean into that because a lot of these traditional models are trained (21:14):
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Josh: on the data of the internet, which is highly opinionated and highly biased. (21:18):
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Josh: And what the Grok team, the XAI team in particular is doing is they're figuring (21:21):
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Josh: out ways to filter through the noise and find as close to source truth as they can. (21:25):
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Josh: And we've kind of seen this work with on the X platform with community notes, (21:30):
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Josh: how generally speaking, they are the closest thing we have to source truth because (21:34):
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Josh: it takes all these opposing opinions and kind of aggregates them and comes to a conclusion. (21:38):
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Josh: Grokipedia is showing us community notes at scale. And it's kind of, (21:42):
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Josh: it's the training set that is going to be used on the next Grok model, (21:46):
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Josh: which is Grok5, but they're kind of offering it to the public as a public good. (21:50):
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Josh: And not only is it a public good, it's an interactive public good. (21:53):
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Josh: So if you go to Grokipedia, you can actually suggest a new page to be generated (21:56):
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Josh: because they're all AI generated. (22:00):
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Josh: And Grok will take the liberty on itself to actually filter your request and (22:02):
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Josh: see if it's worthy or if it's not. (22:05):
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Josh: So if Grokipedia deems your request worthy enough, it will actually go and do (22:07):
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Josh: all the work in order to generate a new Wikipedia page or a new Grokipedia page. (22:11):
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Josh: And I think that kind of collaborative nature is fun, not only for Grok to get (22:15):
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Josh: better training data, but for the public to kind of get their own way. (22:19):
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Josh: And what's funny, Ejaz, is I've seen a lot of larger influencers on X posting (22:23):
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Josh: their Grokipedia page with a thank you letter, because for so long their public (22:28):
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Josh: perception has been skewed in a way that wasn't necessarily true. (22:31):
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Josh: And Grokipedia allows that to change, where now there is a source of truth about the person. (22:35):
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Josh: And when you see slander about someone online, you can check, (22:40):
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Josh: you can reference check this and it at least is trying its best to be truthful. (22:43):
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Josh: So that to me is why Grokopedia is, is this exciting new, important revolution (22:47):
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Josh: in technology that we have as a public good. Thank you to the X team. Yeah. (22:51):
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Ejaaz: Well, Josh, one of those people that posted a thank you about Grokipedia was (22:56):
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Ejaaz: the founder of Wikipedia himself, Larry Sanger, one of the founders of Wikipedia. (23:00):
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Ejaaz: And he goes in this tweet, OK, I finished reading my first long article about (23:06):
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Ejaaz: Grokipedia, the one titled Larry Sanger. That's him. That's his name. (23:11):
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Ejaaz: And he goes on to describe that for a version one for an AI based Wikipedia, (23:15):
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Ejaaz: it's actually really good. and it got a lot of things correct. (23:20):
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Ejaaz: Most importantly, the major things, which are the most controversial things about his biography. (23:24):
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Ejaaz: And he goes on citing a few examples. (23:29):
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Ejaaz: He does have a few criticisms, the one being that it gets a few minor mistakes (23:32):
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Ejaaz: that kind of roll in to become a big problem throughout the article. (23:37):
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Ejaaz: But again, he says, hats off to you, Elon, at the end. (23:41):
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Ejaaz: For everyone, this is amazing. I'm looking forward to seeing 1.0 and 2.0 going forwards. (23:45):
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Ejaaz: I think what a lot of people ended up doing when this product released, (23:50):
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Ejaaz: Josh, was to test a few controversial topics. (23:55):
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Ejaaz: Now, I don't want us to be politically affiliated at all on this podcast, (23:58):
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Ejaaz: but just to give a few examples, there was a side-by-side comparison of RFK (24:03):
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Ejaaz: Jr., which is a big political figure in the US. (24:08):
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Ejaaz: And you notice that one is very explicitly unbiased and less opinionated versus (24:11):
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Ejaaz: the other, Grok being the more unbiased version. (24:16):
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Ejaaz: You've got a side-by-side comparison of Donald Trump, and we had a kind of (24:20):
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Ejaaz: Unbiased adjudicator here in this, Josh, in this experiment where they gave Gemini 2.5. (24:29):
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Ejaaz: I don't know why Gemini 2.5 is the unbiased AI model of choice, but apparently it is. (24:34):
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Ejaaz: And it ended up deciding that Grok was in fact the more unbiased model. (24:39):
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Ejaaz: But there's also a bunch of really cool features that you can do in this as well, Josh. (24:43):
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Ejaaz: You mentioned that you can like submit to Grok an article that you want to get (24:48):
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Ejaaz: generated and have it instantly done. (24:51):
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Ejaaz: You can also fix mistakes in Grok as well. You can kind of highlight a request (24:53):
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Ejaaz: or highlight a thing that you think is wrong, submit it to Grok, (24:58):
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Ejaaz: and it analyzes it in the back end. (25:01):
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Ejaaz: The coolest part about this is you're not reliant on a bunch of (25:03):
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Ejaaz: specific moderators, human moderators that go to bed at night, (25:06):
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Ejaaz: that are awake at different times to get back to you. (25:09):
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Ejaaz: This is just done by an AI all in real time. (25:12):
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Ejaaz: If there's something that you don't understand, you can also just highlight (25:15):
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Ejaaz: it similar to how you would do on your iPhone and click like search and it brings (25:17):
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Ejaaz: you the Grokipedia page of that thing. (25:22):
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Ejaaz: So overall, I think this is a net improvement in what Wikipedia was. (25:25):
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Ejaaz: Do I think it's the best thing? (25:29):
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Ejaaz: No, but I think it's going to get a lot better over time. And I'm super excited (25:31):
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Ejaaz: about this. This thing is open source. Anyone can access it. (25:34):
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Josh: Super cool. Bullish on Grokipedia. And it's actually not the only open source (25:37):
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Josh: public good that we are getting in this week's episode. (25:41):
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Josh: There's a second one that goes by a very weird convoluted name of X402. (25:44):
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Josh: And I want to just briefly outline X402, give you like the 10 second little elevator pitch. (25:49):
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Josh: You can imagine X402, this kind of, it turns the web into a giant vending machine. (25:54):
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Josh: So you just like picture the internet as a vending machine. (25:59):
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Josh: You can walk up to it and you could try to like grab something off of the shelf, (26:02):
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Josh: whether it be a file or a video or a song. (26:04):
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Josh: And if it costs money, the website will say, 402, pay this tiny amount. (26:07):
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Josh: And you could pay it instantly. It's a very tiny amount. Like we're talking fractions of pennies. (26:12):
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Josh: You could pay instantly using crypto stable coins like USDC. (26:16):
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Josh: And then boom, you get the thing. And the amazing perk of this is you don't (26:20):
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Josh: need an account. You don't need a password. (26:24):
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Josh: You just pay for the thing you want and you walk away. Just like a vending machine. (26:26):
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Josh: You want to watch a new video. (26:29):
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Josh: Oh, here's like, give me 10 cents or 10%, one (26:30):
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Josh: tenth of a penny and you get access to this video and you can take it off (26:33):
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Josh: the wall and x402 it's just this open platform kind (26:35):
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Josh: of like http in fact they use part of the http protocol for (26:39):
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Josh: this um that allows the internet to implement this across (26:42):
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Josh: the board so anyone who wants to integrate it (26:45):
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Josh: can integrate it you can kind of imagine i think a lot of people are familiar (26:48):
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Josh: with linux how it's just open source if you want to integrate you can that's (26:51):
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Josh: what 402 is and it's this really awesome thing that allows ai agents in particular (26:54):
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Josh: to start engaging with the internet without needing an account without needing (26:59):
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Josh: a password, without needing to prove that they are humans. (27:03):
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Josh: So you have this big explainer up. Do you want to add anything to that explanation? (27:06):
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Ejaaz: No, I think you did a great job. What I will add is, I love the vending machine example. (27:10):
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Ejaaz: But yeah, to emphasize, this is a new web standard. So you don't have to go (27:16):
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Ejaaz: through a middleman like Stripe or PayPal. (27:22):
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Ejaaz: This is something that you can spin up and integrate into your website or app (27:25):
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Ejaaz: today, right now. And what's cool about this is it unlocks a bunch of really cool use cases. (27:29):
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Ejaaz: So in the previous world, before X402, you would need to set up a PayPal account, (27:35):
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Ejaaz: you would need to set up a checkout system, or enable subscriptions via your own API. (27:41):
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Ejaaz: So if someone wanted to get access to your product, you would query your API, (27:47):
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Ejaaz: and you could either offer them two options. (27:51):
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Ejaaz: Here's all the information in the product that you want for free, (27:53):
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Ejaaz: or you need to subscribe to my thing, which is kind of like, (27:56):
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Ejaaz: think of like a newsletter or a news media corporation in today's world. (27:58):
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Ejaaz: You've got to pay a subscription to get access to the Financial Times, for example. (28:02):
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Ejaaz: Now, you can go to the same app and website and just pay per use, (28:05):
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Ejaaz: which is the coolest part for me. (28:10):
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Ejaaz: Like, Josh, do you know the number of times that I've gone to read an article (28:12):
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Ejaaz: on tech or whatever, and I've just been paywalled? (28:15):
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Ejaaz: I would love to be able to pay like 50 cents or whatever the amount is one time (28:18):
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Ejaaz: and get access to it instantaneously a protocol like this allows you to do it (28:23):
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Ejaaz: and any human can get access to it but the second part is something that you (28:28):
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Ejaaz: mentioned josh ai agents (28:32):
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Ejaaz: I'm firmly of the belief that the future way of digital commerce is not going (28:34):
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Ejaaz: to be via humans or facilitated by humans. (28:39):
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Ejaaz: It's all going to be done digitally through agents. (28:41):
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Ejaaz: You need a standard like this, an open protocol that facilitates payments in (28:44):
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Ejaaz: a matter of microseconds to exist for that world to exist. (28:49):
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Ejaaz: So this is a major, major evolution. (28:53):
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Ejaaz: People probably won't be as excited about this until they start using the product (28:56):
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Ejaaz: themselves. They probably won't have any idea that it's happening in the back end. (28:59):
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Ejaaz: But as a former and current crypto nerd, this is super cool. (29:03):
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Josh: Yeah, well, here's why people should be excited about it because initially it sounds horrific. (29:08):
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Josh: I'm like, wait, I don't want to pay to read an article or to watch a video. (29:11):
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Josh: And that seems like a terrible, terrible, terrible user experience. (29:15):
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Josh: But the alternative has actually been much worse. (29:18):
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Josh: It is the advertising model that gets in the way. (29:21):
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Josh: It's the subscription model that costs $30 a month just to read a couple of articles. (29:23):
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Josh: And what this does is it kind of offloads a lot of the financial burden of a (29:27):
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Josh: company onto like an open source platform. (29:33):
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Josh: So if you don't want to, if you wanted to go read that article, (29:36):
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Josh: EJ, you wouldn't need to pay $20 a month to the New York Times. (29:39):
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Josh: You could just pay a couple cents for that specific article and get a chance (29:42):
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Josh: to get the content that you want and move on with it. (29:46):
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Josh: And I imagine that the net of this probably equals out to be lesser. (29:48):
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Josh: Than what it would be in the traditional sense of things. So that hurts a lot (29:54):
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Josh: of traditional companies where if you are making a killing off of $20 a month (29:58):
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Josh: for people to read five articles, this is probably going to be a little scary. (30:01):
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Josh: But for the rest of the open internet that wants to lean into this, (30:05):
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Josh: that wants to have the AI agents do things on our behalf, if I could give my (30:08):
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Josh: agent a wallet with $100 in it and say, here's your budget for the next couple (30:11):
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Josh: of months, go get me all of the information you need, (30:17):
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Josh: track down all the sources you need to aggregate that for me, (30:19):
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Josh: that is like a huge, huge unlock. (30:21):
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Josh: And most importantly, you just don't need an account or anything. (30:24):
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Josh: It just lowers the friction to use the internet. So this, by all means, great progress. (30:26):
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Josh: Big fan of X402 and just excited to see what comes from it. Normally, (30:30):
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Josh: when we get these protocols, the amount of innovation that happens as a second (30:33):
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Josh: order effect of it is just massive. (30:38):
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Josh: So this has a real chance at really shaping the way the internet looks and how (30:39):
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Josh: we engage with it over the next couple of years. (30:44):
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Ejaaz: Okay, going on to our final topic and arguably the most controversial on the docket this week. (30:46):
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Ejaaz: We want to put data centers out in space. This is something we mentioned last (30:54):
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Ejaaz: week where a company called StarCloud is planning on building an AI compute (30:59):
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Ejaaz: data center and launching it into space. (31:04):
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Ejaaz: Apparently, this is going to make it a hell of a lot more efficient. (31:07):
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Ejaaz: Apparently, beaming compute down onto Earth is way more environmentally friendly (31:10):
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Ejaaz: because it's out in space. (31:15):
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Ejaaz: There's nothing around it. It can just emanate heat, right? (31:17):
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Ejaaz: But Josh, I know you have a lot of strong opinions on this. (31:20):
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Ejaaz: I have this tweet lined up to give an update as to what exactly they're doing (31:23):
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Ejaaz: and how they're achieving it. (31:27):
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Ejaaz: And I have to say, and by the way, this tweet thread was produced by an AI model, (31:28):
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Ejaaz: Perplexity, so shout out to them. (31:33):
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Ejaaz: They give a very compelling case, Josh. There's a few things. (31:35):
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Ejaaz: They talk about the fact that these satellites are probably, (31:38):
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Ejaaz: this hardware is probably not going to be as heavy as people are claiming it to be. (31:41):
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Ejaaz: So it actually makes it kind of efficient or cost worthy enough to launch some (31:45):
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Ejaaz: of these things in space. (31:50):
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Ejaaz: It's going to be the first ever AI model that is going to be launched and trained (31:52):
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Ejaaz: and fine-tuned out in space. That's another one. (31:56):
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Ejaaz: And also they talk about the biggest criticism that they've faced, (31:59):
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Ejaaz: which is around how these data centers in space are gonna emanate heat. (32:02):
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Ejaaz: There is no way to do that in space. Space is a vacuum. (32:07):
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Ejaaz: And they talk about this neat little convection layer that they're gonna like (32:12):
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Ejaaz: kind of film the entire or cover the entire data center with. (32:16):
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Ejaaz: I don't know if that's true. That's kind of like the theory around it. (32:21):
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Ejaaz: But most importantly, the economics are pretty insane. (32:24):
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Ejaaz: On Earth, they claim that it's gonna cost you around $167 million to set up (32:27):
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Ejaaz: the same kind of thing that they're trying to do in space. (32:32):
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Ejaaz: But in orbit, it's only going to cost them $8.2 million. (32:35):
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Ejaaz: Josh, to any kind of businessman looking at these figures, that is an investable (32:39):
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Ejaaz: worthy company. Tell me why I'm wrong. (32:43):
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Josh: This is outrageous. I can't believe we're talking about this. (32:46):
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Josh: See, this is proof that you can't really trust AI agents, really. (32:49):
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Josh: So the cost structure here is pretty outrageous. So like $167 million versus $8.2 million. (32:54):
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Josh: Clearly, there's something wrong there because the cost per kilogram to orbit (32:59):
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Josh: at the moment is $2,000 to $10,000 per kilogram. (33:02):
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Josh: Five or 40 megawatts is an astronomical amount of infrastructure required, (33:08):
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Josh: particularly because in order to cool a five megawatt data center in space, (33:14):
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Josh: because there is no atmosphere, (33:21):
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Josh: it requires 16 square kilometers of radiators and heat dissipation. (33:22):
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Josh: And if you want a 40 megawatt data center up there, that is a very gigantic (33:28):
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Josh: piece of space junk that is not really proven in technology. (33:35):
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Josh: There's a lot of things like shielding that is really difficult because there (33:40):
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Josh: is a lot more solar flare energy. If a single bit gets flipped in any of these (33:43):
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Josh: training runs, it's very difficult to recover. (33:46):
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Josh: You have to do the whole thing over again. So radiation is a problem. (33:48):
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Josh: The cooling is a problem. The cost, I think they must be assuming that the cost (33:52):
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Josh: per kilogram to orbit is like starship final form when it gets down to like (33:56):
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Josh: 10 to 30 kilograms per orbit. (34:01):
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Josh: The reality is it costs several orders of magnitude more to do that today. (34:02):
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Josh: And what this isn't taking into account either is the decreasing cost of electricity over time. (34:06):
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Josh: Since the early 1900s industrial era in the United States, we have not really (34:12):
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Josh: needed to produce that much more energy. (34:17):
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Josh: Like our energy has been kind of gradual, but it's never gone up the exponential (34:19):
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Josh: curve in the same way technology did. (34:22):
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Josh: We are very much at the exponential curve right now where that is changing. (34:23):
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Josh: And I think to assume that energy costs are going to remain this high is fairly (34:27):
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Josh: outrageous because clearly the goal is to get energy costs as close to zero as possible. (34:31):
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Josh: There is no change to this trend. And this whole thing kind of seems outrageous. (34:36):
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Josh: Now, granted, I love the idea that they are experimenting, that they want to (34:40):
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Josh: try to make these fun outer space orbits. But it just seems kind of hand-wavy. (34:44):
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Josh: One of their bragging points is, oh, this is 100 times more compute power than (34:48):
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Josh: the largest GPU that's ever been in space. (34:52):
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Josh: And that's because we don't ship GPUs to space. Like this is just the first (34:54):
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Josh: big one we've ever shipped. And it's one of them. (34:58):
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Josh: And real data centers now need millions of these coherently operating together. (35:00):
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Josh: So to me, it's like, it's a fun science experiment, but I wouldn't take this (35:04):
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Josh: very seriously because there are lots of long time scales and technology breakthroughs (35:08):
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Josh: required in order to make that number realistic. (35:11):
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Ejaaz: All right. Okay. Listen, Josh, all very valid points, but I have one more comment to make. (35:16):
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Ejaaz: You criticize the fact that this company is suggesting to build out like, what is it? (35:22):
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Ejaaz: A 14 kilometer satellite or data infrastructure to actually build it. (35:27):
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Josh: That's just the physics of what it takes to cool it. (35:31):
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Ejaaz: Right. Okay. To cool this, right? Isn't the whole point of space that there's a lot of space? (35:33):
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Ejaaz: Why can't they just launch whatever the hell they want? We have infinite space (35:39):
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Ejaaz: in this thing? Why can't they just do that? (35:42):
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Josh: It turns out like space isn't super infinite and particularly on low earth orbit. (35:44):
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Josh: I imagine there's going to be a large battle for low earth orbit. (35:48):
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Josh: Why low earth orbit? Well, it is low earth. It's close to earth. (35:51):
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Josh: And because of a thing called latency, we want these things, (35:55):
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Josh: we want to be able to communicate with these things faster. (35:59):
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Josh: And unfortunately, the speed of light does have a cap and things cannot, (36:01):
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Josh: we haven't figured out how to make things travel any faster than the speed of light. (36:04):
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Josh: So if your data center is further away, it takes much longer to communicate (36:07):
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Josh: back with Earth. And that becomes a problem. (36:11):
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Josh: What I prefer is instead of putting these like giant 16 square kilometer like (36:13):
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Josh: pieces of things into this precious space, space in space, well, (36:19):
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Josh: wouldn't it be cool to just throw like a lot more of these Starlink V3 satellites (36:25):
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Josh: down there so they can beam direct to cell service back to us? (36:29):
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Josh: I think there's a lot more practical utility of that low Earth orbit versus (36:32):
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Josh: throwing these like gigantic things that require a lot of space. (36:35):
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Josh: You just, if you saw, we talked about the SpaceX launch last week. (36:39):
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Josh: Those satellites are very small. They don't take up a lot of space, (36:42):
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Josh: but they are very high impact. (36:45):
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Josh: These on the other hand are gigantic. And yeah, it doesn't strike me as very (36:46):
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Josh: exciting as a lucrative way of using our limited real estate up there. (36:52):
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Ejaaz: Yeah, I appreciate the boldness of the idea. This team did come out of Y Combinator, (36:57):
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Ejaaz: so I'm presuming that it is quite fitting to the batch and cohort that they're graduating from. (37:02):
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Ejaaz: Y Combinator always launches pretty loony ideas, which end up sometimes becoming world-changing. (37:07):
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Ejaaz: But we are yet to see whether StarCloud will prove their thesis of launching (37:13):
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Ejaaz: Jensen Huang's NVIDIA GPUs into space. (37:18):
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Ejaaz: Speaking of Jensen Huang, $5 trillion market cap. It is an absolute crazy week. (37:21):
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Ejaaz: It is earnings week this week, guys. Stock market is at all-time highs. (37:28):
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Ejaaz: We mentioned Microsoft and Apple. Apple, super randomly, coming out of nowhere. (37:32):
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Ejaaz: I thought AI had beholden them. I thought they had completely skipped the entire phase. (37:36):
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Ejaaz: Somehow they surpassed a $4 trillion market cap. Maybe they're underpriced. (37:40):
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Ejaaz: We'll talk about more of that potentially next week. (37:43):
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Ejaaz: But that is all that we have on our docket today. (37:46):
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Ejaaz: I just want to say from me personally, thank you so much for the support all (37:49):
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Ejaaz: of you guys have shown us. So far, we had like one of our most viewed videos (37:53):
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Ejaaz: ever last week. And we're having an amazing week this time. (37:57):
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Ejaaz: All the comments and feedback that you guys are giving, all the likes, (38:00):
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Ejaaz: all the subscriptions, all the ratings that you're giving us on RSS, (38:02):
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Ejaaz: Spotify, Apple Music, wherever you're listening to this is hugely, hugely appreciated. (38:06):
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Ejaaz: If you haven't done any of that already, that's okay. (38:10):
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Ejaaz: Please do it now. It takes a few seconds. (38:13):
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Ejaaz: And Josh, do you have anything else that you want to share? (38:16):
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Josh: Oh, I have to remind you, we've had a big week in the world of YouTube, (38:18):
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Josh: which is awesome. There's been a lot of new people joining and subscribing. (38:21):
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Josh: Just a reminder that there is an audio version of this available on Spotify (38:24):
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Josh: where you can also watch the video as well as just audio only on RSS feeds, (38:27):
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Josh: basically anywhere where you get podcasts. Spotify is my favorite way to watch the show. (38:31):
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Josh: Sometimes I'll rewatch our episodes and I'll go on my Spotify and it's nice (38:35):
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Josh: because it's a pocket player that does audio, but it also has video built right in. (38:38):
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Josh: So if I'm on the treadmill and I want to watch, I could just watch it (38:43):
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Josh: on my phone or if I just like lock my phone because unless you (38:45):
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Josh: have youtube premium you can't lock your phone and still listen it still (38:48):
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Josh: plays in the background so spotify is my preferred way of watching but yeah just thank (38:51):
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Josh: you all so much for the support and for sharing with your friends and just being (38:54):
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Josh: here for every episode as we travel along the journey and reach all-time highs (38:57):
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Josh: across the board particularly in stocks this week so big earnings season coming (39:01):
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Josh: up i'm sure we'll get into some of that next week but that's been another great (39:05):
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Josh: week on limitless and thank you all for watching as always we'll see you guys next week. (39:08):
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