Exactly What to Say with Nicole Cramer

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the Live your ExtraordinaryLife podcast.
I'm your host, michelle Rios,and I am absolutely thrilled to
present to you a good friend,someone who I met a few months
ago, but we have become fastfriends.
Her name is Nicole Kramer.
She is a keynote speaker.
She's a sales expert.

(00:23):
She is a keynote speaker, she'sa sales expert, she's a
certified what, exactly what tosay?
Coach and she is a bonafidehealth nut.
I've delved into a lot of herbackground here and she is at it
all the time and she's justvery impressive.
We happened to meet a couplemonths back in Nashville, which
she now has made her home forthe time being, and we just hit

(00:45):
it off at this conference andwe've been talking ever since.
So, nicole, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Thank you, what a nice introduction and so true,
such a fun connection, and I'mreally grateful that we met a
couple of months ago and nowhere we are.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
I love your story, nicole, because, as we talk, you
know on the show really about.
I love your story, nicole,because, as we talk, you know on
the show really about thenon-linear paths most people
lead right and how we get to bewhere we are today, and, I have
to say, one of the things thatreally struck me about you was
how well-spoken you are.
You happened to be the speakerthe night before we kicked off

(01:20):
this conference, and I was on apanel that next day, and it
could not have been a betterchoice, because not only are you
incredibly articulate, you havegreat stories, and what you're
talking about is just pertinentto everybody.
So what I wanted to be able tolet people know, though, is you
didn't start off as a salesexpert.

(01:42):
You didn't start off on acertified exactly what to say
sales coach.
In fact, you started off as amath teacher, and I love this.
So let's start there.
Let's tell us a little bitabout where you started.
I know you're from Ohiooriginally.
Give us a little bit of thebackground and how you went on

(02:03):
this very circuitous path tosales coaching.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
The path is never a straight line, is it?
So I, yes, was a math teacherfor 15 years, taught high school
math, and I am also a verycompetitive person.
I played sports my whole life.
I played basketball in collegeand, you know, around the last
couple of years that I wasteaching, I was starting to get
an itch for like somethingdifferent, something bigger,

(02:31):
something that would challengeme.
And I had a lot of friends thatwere in sales and it sounded
like a game and you know, we'dbe at a happy hour and they'd be
like, oh, you know, I'm numberone this quarter.
I just signed my biggestcontract and you know I'm I'm on
target to hit president's cluband it just sounded exciting and
I'd be like I gave him a quizand I knew I needed something

(02:54):
more in my life.
That's when I started torecognize it and I had a really
good friend who was number onein the nation and his sales
company and I was like thatsounds cool, I want to get a
sales job and I want to becomenumber one.
And so I really just kind ofsaid it out loud or maybe in my
own head at that time and, asthe universe works, it started
bringing opportunities to me,and I had a friend that said hey

(03:15):
, I think you'd be great at this.
Have you ever thought aboutsales?
It was almost like he read mymind because I had said nothing
out loud.
This was like a couple of weekslater, after I had made that
declaration in my own mind and Isaid do you think I could be
good in sales?
He goes I think you'd be great.
He goes would you go on aninterview with my boss if I got
you the interview?
And I was like, yeah, you woulddo that.
And like I'm all excited, right, I put my resume.

(03:36):
He's like yeah, just get yourresume together, I'll set up the
interview.
Put together a resume thatliterally just says teacher,
I've never done anything else inmy life at this point, right,
so I go into the interview and Ithink the guy who interviewed
me probably just did theinterview as a favor to his, his
buddy that set it up.
However, when we got to the endof the interview, he goes wow,
you know, I got to tell you youreally knocked this out of the

(03:58):
park.
I think he was like reallytruly surprised, like, okay, I
did this interview, I wasn'texpecting much, but you know
whatever.
She did a pretty good job.
He said, however, I'm going tohave a hard time hiring you over
the 89 internal people who wantthis position, because your
resume just says teacher.
You've never sold anything, andit was like a shot to the heart
.
That was the one thing that Iwas so worried.

(04:19):
He was going to say, like youdon't have experience.
And so I thought about it for asecond.
I looked at him and I said,well, I've been selling math to
high school teenagers for 15years and nobody wanted to buy
that.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Perfect.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Perfect and I had no, it just came out of me.
I didn't have that plan.
It just in that moment came outand he goes that's good, that's
really good.
And he goes that's good.
That's really good.
You're great on your feet Forsure.
In that moment I was.
And what that did in thatmoment is it made him recognize
oh yeah, I'm going to move youon to the next round.

(04:57):
So I was excited because it didexactly that.
It moved me on to the nextround.
He goes would you want to ridealong with one of my guys?
I said sure.
He said, would you write up a30, 60, 90 day business plan?
I was like, yeah, so I walk outof there and I call my friend.
I'm like, oh my God, I'm goingon a ride along.
By the way, what's a 30, 60, 90day business plan?
Like I have no idea what I justagreed to.
He's like, yeah, he just taughtme about sales, michelle is,

(05:20):
sales is not transactional.
So many years ago, when I saidthat in that moment sitting in
that seat, I didn't realize thatthat truth would be carried
forward by me in theunderstanding that sales is all
about relationships.

(05:40):
Those high schools yeah, theyweren't coming in with credit
cards to try to pay me for math,right, it was the relationship
that we built and they didn'treally want to do the math, to
be honest.
And so I think so often we getcaught up in the transactional
nature of maybe what we've beentold that sales is or the
perception that we have aboutsales, but really at the heart

(06:02):
of it, it's all aboutrelationships and businesses
done between people.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Well, and I would even go a step further and say
most people don't really carewhat you're selling.
They're buying your energy.
They want what you have.
And if there's something aboutwhat you're talking about, the
way you're talking about it, theway you're showing up in your
life that excites them, they'regoing to want to know more.

(06:27):
And I have to believe thatcompetitive spirit in sports
that you had you brought to theclassroom.
It was probably very engagingfor the kids to be around you.
You were probably a breath offresh air compared to some of
their other teachers and justfeeling that was what made you
really successful in theclassroom.
So I can see the translationinto the sales arena immediately

(06:48):
.
You've got that vibe of likeshe's full of life and you can
tell you're going somewhere andyou're like I want to go with
her.
Where's she?

Speaker 2 (06:57):
going To the quadratic equation.
That's where we're going.
Oh my God, no, but you're right.
They all did that transfer ofenthusiasm, right?
That's really we're going.
Oh my God, no, but you're right.
It's that transfer ofenthusiasm, right?
That's really what it is, and Ithink that there's something to
be said for the fact that it'sin us and that's what people
recognize.
But the reason it's soimpactful is when they recognize
it.
That's the law of attraction.

(07:17):
It's because it's in them.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Well, you say something and it's one of the
things I talk about as well thatI think most people miss,
Because when people think ofsales, when people get their
head in this whole arena, theyimmediately go ugh.
Sales is hard, Sales is pushy.
They have a very strong imageof what sales means and we talk

(07:41):
about sales as service.
Could you talk a little bitabout what you mean, what it
means for you, when you talkabout sales as service?
Could you talk a little bitabout what you mean, what it
means for you when you talkabout sales as service?

Speaker 2 (07:50):
That was a huge shift for me.
So I mean, I'll be honest.
So I left my high schoolteaching job, I went into sales
and my first couple of monthswere really tough, because I had
such just limitations in mymind about the transactional
nature of sales and I feltsalesy and I felt like I was

(08:10):
asking people to pay me moneyfor things that they didn't want
, which was not.
It was what I my perception ofsales had been up to that point.
I wasn't seeing it as like,wait a minute, these people have
a need that they either can'tdo on their own or don't want to
do on their own, or it's a loteasier for them to just delegate

(08:31):
it to somebody else.
And I'm not selling ice to apolar bear.
I'm not selling a TV to a blindman.
I'm never going to sellsomebody something that they
don't need.
So if I'm selling somebodysomething that they do need or
want in some capacity againbecause they don't want to do it
themselves, they can't do itthemselves it would be easier
just to delegate it.
Then what I'm actually doing ishelping people with a problem

(08:52):
that they have and I have thesolution, and if that's really
all it is, then selling has tobe seen as serving.
Selling has to be seen as hey,you have something, you have a
need in your world and I have away to meet that need.
And if what I do feels rightfor meeting that need for you,
then I'm serving, I'm helping.

(09:14):
I'm not selling you something,and you said this earlier.
People don't want to be sold,but they do want something in us
.
Our energy that they feelmatches the need that they have.
That can get it done.
So selling a serving just becamethis thing that in my mind I
was like wait a minute, I'mactually just helping people,

(09:36):
and this was another big shiftfor me.
Who better to help them than me?
And what I mean by that is Icare so much about the people
that I want to help.
And if I'm taking myself out ofthe game because I feel salesy
or I feel like, oh, I don't wantto ask them for money or I
don't want to do anything, thenI'm leaving them high and dry
and saying you know what, go offto somebody else.

(09:57):
Somebody else is going to haveto help you with this need
because I feel too uncomfortableasking you, having the courage
to ask you to pay me money or togive me your business, and what
that means is I'm telling youto go to my competitor and I
know for a fact my competitordoesn't care as much as I do, so
who better to help them?

(10:17):
And when I started to wrap myhead around that and I realized,
oh my God, I can't do that tothe people that I care about.
They should be working with me.
There's nobody that's going tocare and hold their hand the way
that I do and go above andbeyond the way that I do, so
they're going to buy fromeverybody anybody.
If they're going to get help,support from anybody with this
problem, I'm the best person forthem to do that with.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
So, okay, you now entered the sales world.
You're in this corporateenvironment.
You're having a tough time inthe initial months, but you've
pushed through.
You end up going on to beingnumber one in your division,
correct In your company, in yourdivision, regardless In the
country it's amazing In thecountry, and this went on.

(11:03):
For how long.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
I did that for two years in a country.
And this went on for how long?
I did that for two years in arow because after the first year
, you know, there's again thecompetitor in me.
I was like, okay, I did it, Ibecame number one, which was
pretty incredible.
Yeah, check, check.
And you know, looking back again, I say that it's like, oh my
gosh, that probably it's one ofthose things that when you look
back on your life you're like Ihonestly probably shouldn't have
been able to do that.
And all I mean by that is notthat I shouldn't have been able

(11:28):
to do or I didn't.
It's like that was one of thosethings where I just had the big
dream and I didn't know why itshouldn't happen.
Michelle, I was like toooblivious to the challenges of
it and I like to say I was alittle bit like ignorance on
fire, and what I mean by that isI had jumped into this role

(11:50):
where I was working around abunch of other veteran
salespeople who had never beennumber one, and they kind of
laughed when I walked in and Iwas like, yeah, I want to be
number one in the nation.
They were like, that's cute,pollyanna, good luck with that
and I was like, oh well, is ithard?
They were like, yeah, we'vebeen in sales our whole life and
we've never done it.
I was like, well, where there'sa will, there's a way and I'm
not saying it was easy street inthat year and a half to get to
number one.

(12:11):
There were challenges, therewere tears, there were all kinds
of things.
Right, I just didn't know whyit should be so hard.
And so when I got there, it waskind of like, oh my gosh, I did
it, I'm number one.
And then I was like I'm notgoing to let anybody call me a
one hit wonder, I'm going to dothis again.
And my company came to me atthat time and they were like,
hey, you're number one, here'syour promotion.

(12:32):
We want you to move up to thisnext role.
And I said I don't want thepromotion, I'm going to go be
number one again.
And they were like do you knowhow hard?
that is where it was like holdmy beer.
That's not what I actually saidin that moment, but looking
back it was like no, I'm goingto do it and I did, and what I
now know.
I'm super proud of everythingthat I did.

(12:52):
And what I know is I was stillchasing, I was still looking for
that to complete me.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yep.
And validation and theaccolades and yeah Totally.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
And and I didn't quite.
I thought I.
So here's what happened thefirst time I became.
First year, I became number one.
It was like, oh my God, this isso exciting.
I became number one and I wason such a momentum that I just
kept going and I did it a secondyear and after the second year
I was like, wait a minute, whendid the angels start singing?
When did the fireworks go off?
Like, when does this feel?

(13:25):
The way that I was so sure itwas going to feel like, and it
hasn't happened yet.
And I started to feel worsethan I ever felt when I didn't
have those achievements.
I started to get fearful oflike wait, if that's not it, if
that didn't do the thing that Ithought it was going to do, what

(13:45):
is ever going to do that for me?
And I didn't understand at thetime that chasing some external
validation is never going tocomplete us.
And that's a really dark placeto be, a horribly dark place to
be because you get.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
So you get not only further away from the feeling of
fulfillment, but you pullyourself away from you.
Not only further away from thefeeling of fulfillment, but you
pull yourself away from you.
You get further away from whoyou are when you chase.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Well that, and everybody's looking at you like
you're living this life, thedream, dream and I mean not to
take anything away from it.
I had checked every box.
I checked every box of all thethings that I knew that if I did
those things, that I would behappy.
And so I was traveling theworld.

(14:33):
I did have the condo at thebeach, I did get the dog that I
wanted, I did have money in thebank, I did have the new car.
I did have that.
I had all the things that Ithought were going to make me
happy.
And so everybody's looking atmy life, going oh my God, you
did it, you're living the dream.
This is amazing.
And I'm like why the hell don'tI feel that way?
And then you start to feelshameful about the fact.
Well, why can't I appreciate mylife if it looks?

Speaker 1 (14:54):
that good, guilty, shameful, all the things?

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, absolutely, and so I got to this really dark
place where I knew I didn't wantto be here anymore.
Yeah, and that was a really,really scary place to be.
I was very clear why peoplekill themselves.
The only thing I knew for sureis that I didn't want to take

(15:18):
action on that.
There was something inside ofme that was like keep going,
there's something more for you.
And I think some of thosedarkest moments those come to
Jesus moments, those like thosecome to Jesus moments, those
like just really truly soulsearching moments do come on the
heels of challenges like that.

(15:39):
But I also think that those arethe pivotal moments that start
to point us in a new directionthat maybe we wouldn't have
considered, we wouldn't haveseen, we wouldn't have known.
And so, looking back, it'salways easy to I shouldn't say
it's always easy, but it's a loteasier to be grateful for those
moments.
But in the moment that you'regoing through them, it's one of
the most challenging things inthe world.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
I think it's so hard for people to recognize if you
haven't gone through this, thatyou can get all the things you
thought you wanted.
You can check all the boxes,you can be winning in society's
eyes and feel absolutelymiserable, and it's a really
hard place to be because youalmost have to isolate yourself,

(16:19):
because nobody wants to hearhow miserable you are when
you're supposedly crushing itright, and I think that that's
often what happens.
What gets us to those darkerplaces is the fact that we end
up not talking about how we'refeeling, about what's going on,
because we really are feelingguilty, that we aren't feeling
grateful and we're like what iswrong with me?

(16:40):
You know what's going to do it.
So what was the turnaround foryou, nicole?
What happened that moved theneedle?

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Well, a conversation with my mom honestly was pretty
pivotal for me around that timebecause she had taken me to
Vegas to celebrate.
I had just finished my secondyear of being number one and I
was about to turn 40.
So it was like a big year,monumental year in a lot of ways
.
So my mom takes me to Vegas andshe's like oh my gosh, this is
amazing.
You're going to turn 40 in acouple of weeks.
You just finished your secondyear at number one.
You're becoming a health.
You're becoming a health.

(17:08):
I was in the middle of becominga health coach.
Like you said, I'm a big healthnut and that was one of the
things that I promised myselfthat when I became number one,
the first thing I would buy formyself was my health coaching
certification.
I was very passionate aboutthat.
I have a long history of healthand wellness in my world.
My mom had had cancer.
It was really important to meto do that.
What's next for you?
I said I'm going to quit.
She goes what I said I'm goingto quit.

(17:37):
And she goes why?
Why are you going to?
What do you mean?
What like you're ever?
You're on the top of the world.
Why would you quit.
I said I don't want to benumber one.
I said because I've done it fortwo years in a row.
If I don't do it again, they'llfire me.
And she goes.
Did somebody tell you that?
I said no, but if I've proventhat I can do it and I don't do

(17:58):
it again, they're going to know.
I had all these stories going onin my head, michelle.
I mean I literally was trybeing like number 14?
I said cause that soundsterrible.
And my ego was so wrapped up inthat conversation.
And my mom said you know, Ithink you need to leave your ego
out of this and really startlooking at you know what's

(18:20):
important to you about doingthis and why do you do it.
And that was in November of thatyear and by January I'd gotten
to a point where I couldn't getout of bed.
I mean literally, likeemotionally, physically, like
everything.
I couldn't get out.
But I had all this money andall you know, all these things
that I thought were going tomake me happy.
And I did some soul searchingthat January and, you know,

(18:42):
encouraged by my mom, like Ithink you need to really reflect
on what's important to you.
And that's exactly what I askedmyself.
I was like, wait a minute, whatgot me out of bed before I was
good at this job, like whatmotivated me before I had the
money, before I had the sale,before I had anything, something
I was excited about everysingle day, getting out of bed
doing this job.
What was it?
And it came down to two thingsbuilding relationships with

(19:02):
people and helping them solvetheir problems.
And I thought, well, what if Ijust made it about that?
What if I really got back tobasics, because the
relationships, it's always beenmost important to me.
And I thought, well, if I justwent back to that and didn't
make it about being number one,didn't make it about my goal,
but truly it was always aboutthe people anyways, it was
always about me helping andselling and serving.
But I thought, what if, insteadof making another goal for me,

(19:26):
I make a goal of building betterrelationships?
And how would I do that?
Well, my first step was let mego and read how to Win Friends
and Influence People Again,because that's what you do,
right?
That's one of the bestrelationship books on the planet
.
So I read that.
Yeah, classic, classic.
I've probably read it, I don'teven know how many times now,
but that was a reread for me.
In that moment I was like, letme go reread that.

(19:48):
And after I finished that,audible was like hey, if you
like that book, you might wantto read this other little book
called Exactly what to Say.
It was $4.99.
It was brand new.
On Audible, I was like, ah,sounds like a cool title, let me
check it out.
I listened to it in an hourit's a short, easy read, you
know.
And then I listened to it again.

(20:08):
I was like this is so good.
And I was like who is this guy?
I need to meet this guy.
I need to like read all of hisother books.
I want to work with this guy.
I want to meet this guy.
Right, like I was saying allthese things back then and it's
funny, because, you know, lifeis just so interesting.
I look back now and I'm likethat version of me wouldn't
believe what I was in a reallydark place in my life.
It wasn't exactly what to say.

(20:34):
It wasn't how to win friendsand influence people.
It was everything together that, step by step, was starting to
help me pull myself out of thathole that I was in and I was
reading a lot of books aroundthat I read the book You're a
Badass Completely reminded me ofthe badass that I was right.
So I started little by littlekind of pulling myself out of
that and realizing if I reallyjust make it about people, if I

(21:00):
really just make it aboutserving others, then that's the
most important thing that Icould do and it started to be
fulfilling, it started to feelbetter, it started to feel
differently and that's when Ireally started to realize again
selling is serving, selling isabout relationships.
And that year I was not numberone but it was one of the most
proud years that I had.
And I always say it like thatbecause if you would have told

(21:25):
me years ago, years before that,that I would be more proud of a
year where I wasn't number onethan one where I was, I probably
wouldn't have believed you.
But I learned a lot aboutmyself that year.
I learned a lot about sales.
That year I learned a lot aboutrelationships and I learned
what was really important.
And by the end of the year Ihad still made President's Club,
but I was okay with not beingnumber one.

(21:46):
I knew that I had done a reallygood job by myself and by my
customers in taking care of themand I started to change the way
I felt about again.
Like the external validationand checking all the boxes, it
was like all of a sudden Irealized that's not what life is
all about and I started tochange the way that I looked at
it.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
All right, this is a perfect time to interject this
question.
It's the question I askeverybody on the show, sometimes
at the beginning, sometimes atthe end, but this just feels
like the perfect moment, andthat is what does it mean to you
now to live your extraordinarylife?

Speaker 2 (22:25):
It's interesting.
I just had a birthday yesterdayand had dinner with some
friends and there were a lot ofquestions about this, like what
does this next year look likefor you?
What are you calling in?
And I think living anextraordinary life is so
different for me now than what Iwould have defined it as a year
ago or two years ago or threeyears ago.
And you know, I always thinkback to that quote by Jim Carrey
, kind of like with everythingwe've been talking about here so

(22:46):
far.
It's he said I wish everybodycould get rich and famous so
that they know it's not theanswer, yeah, and so I think for
me, living an extraordinarylife is it just brings tears to
my eyes, it's have I created thetime and the space to spend
with the people that matter tome and have the experiences that

(23:09):
matter?
Not collecting achievements andcollecting things, but like, am
I living my lifeextraordinarily around the
people that matter most to me?
And I'm sure there's a lot moreto it than just that but like,
if I really were to simplify it,it's you know, have I made

(23:30):
connections that really matter?
Am I impacting others' livesand allowing my life to be
impacted by people that I reallycare about and respect and I
think people.
It might be weird to say this,but people are one of my highest
values.
I know a lot of people sayloyalty and integrity, but I've
always said like people arereally what matter to me, so I

(23:53):
think that is what really makeslife extraordinary.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
It's a beautiful response and I think the reality
is, the more time goes on andthe more you're on this path
where you've had the opportunityto have the contrast right,
you've seen what it's like towin, to achieve all the goals
and still not come up feelingfulfilled the way you thought
you should have To sit aroundand say, okay, well, what is

(24:21):
going to do it?
You realize it isn't actuallyabout the getting, it's about
the giving.
It is totally about you pouringinto other people's cups and
that is when you fill up.
And that's where so many peoplemiss it.
And it's hard because we havepeople who are quote, unquote,
winning, succeeding, if you will, and even in this coaching

(24:44):
arena, this culture of hustle,hustle, grind, grind.
I've had the best sales yearever, I had the best sales month
, whatever, and it's just everyday they're out there talking
about that.
It's deceiving, because I wouldreally encourage people, when
you hear that, to reallyquestion it, because you kind of

(25:06):
pull back the corner.
If that's really the case, whydo you need to talk about it?
There's something there about Igotta keep saying it over and
over again, to believe it, tomake it come true, to continue
it, to keep it up or what haveyou?
And it's a fine line having avery similar background, not in
teaching but in the corporatespace.

(25:28):
Where is selling?
You know large communicationsprograms and PR programs
globally.
And there was a time where Iwas selling.
You know large communicationsprograms and PR programs
globally.
And there was a time where Iwas like you know, I just don't
even know if they need what wehave, and the reality is they
always needed some version ofwhat we were doing because they
were all in the communicationsand marketing arena and so it's
a complicated business.
And when I stopped worryingabout could I sell it and could

(25:52):
I make the numbers I had to makefor the quarter and I simply
showed up with as my friendliterally that's business.
But still having theserelationships are like what do
you need from me today?
What can we do to support you?
Now Things shifted.
I stopped worrying about thequarterly numbers, which I'm
sure my colleagues at the timewere freaking right out, because

(26:12):
we were all like the morefrenzied you seemed, supposedly
the better you were doing or themore you were on team go, and I
remember thinking the frenzyspace that you're operating in
is just creating more frenzy andI don't want part of it anymore
.
I was part of it for a reallylong time because we all were
supposed to collectively sharethe insanity of, you know,

(26:37):
worrying about how we were goingto make next quarter, and it
never actually made next quarterbetter.
Someone would pull a rabbit outof a hat and we thought it was
because we were all beingfrenzied, and it was never that.
It was usually the person whowas least frenzied that figured
out the fix.
And so to get to this placewhere you realize, you know,

(26:57):
first of all, I think I knowthis, but I want to hear a
little bit more about.
We come from much a pragmatic,science-driven, data-driven
world, and I think we're bothstill very, you know, excited
about those things.
Definitely, I'd love to knowwhat are the stats, what are the
details?
And then I have this other partof me that's like and I'm
manifesting this as I go I knowI need to take action, I know I

(27:20):
need momentum, I know I need tobe moving the needle a little
bit toward what it is I want tocreate every day, but I'm
creating it first in my mindbefore I'm creating it in the
real world.
There's this space, and so thisduality of pragmatism and
practicality and you know wemade it in a different way in a

(27:40):
different world before, and nowwe're recreating it in this much
more nurturing space.
I would argue not all ofcoaching is nurturing, but the
one that we're creating is, Ithink, holding space for a much
more different approach tocreating wealth, to creating
extraordinary, to creatingimpact, meaning all of these

(28:04):
things that we value for thepeople that we care about and
the people we have yet to meet.
How do you really pull thisduality in and process it?
Because I know look, I'll sayit out loud I got caught up in
the bro culture myself because Ithought that was the way to win
.
I thought I had to be that wayin order to win, and I had a lot

(28:27):
of masculine energy and I'msure you do too that I had to
tame that.
I had to tame that, I had tofind a way to say this is
actually not bringing out thebest of me and I'm going to have
to lean into a place that,quite frankly, I've
undernourished, which is thiswhole divine feminine side.
How have you reconciled that inyour world?

Speaker 2 (28:48):
So many things that you said that are.
So, yes, I mean it.
I mean even just to think aboutthe fact that the feminine
energy, the feminine way it atleast in my world and my
conditioning, was almost seen aslike I don't know if I want to
say lazy, but like what?
You're not taking action,you're not doing enough, right,
in this hustle and grind culturethat we've been conditioned to

(29:11):
believe is the way, the frenzy,the frenzy, all the things right
, like if I'm not answering myemail at 10 pm, like I'm not
working hard enough and I've gotto get back to people right
away, and I can't tell you howmany vacations I went on to
Europe for like two months andI'm still responding to emails
even though I'm off, right, andthis all of it because you're
afraid to get behind.
You're afraid, you're afraid,you're afraid Whatever it is,

(29:31):
you're afraid.
It's all from fear, right?
The scramble is always aboutfear, the scatter is always
about fear, the frenzy is aboutfear of some kind.
And you know, for decades anddecades and decades, sales was
done in a certain way.
There was the bro culture, thepro mentality of like the
hustling grind, always be, Imean what was always be closing

(29:52):
of, like the hustling grindalways be I mean, what was
always be closing?
Jordan Belfort, the Wolf ofWall Street, what have we seen
for a long time?
And sales was predominantly aman's world, and so it was done
the way that men do things.
And I think, especially overthe last decade or so, not only
has sales been changing becausepeople want to sell differently,
people want to be sold todifferently, because they don't

(30:12):
actually want to be sold to,they want to buy.
And there's been moretransparency than ever before in
our world because of socialmedia, because of how everything
can be seen at any given time.
You know, back in like 1986,when you sold something, if you
were salesy, nobody knew aboutit.
There wasn't social media forsomebody to go blast about it,
right.
And so I'm not saying it wasokay or wasn't okay, but the way

(30:34):
that people were selling it was.
People just accepted it.
That's how it was.
And we want connection morethan ever.
We want to be seen and heardand understood more than ever
before, because, as much aswe're more visible than we ever
have been, people aren'tlistening, people aren't
actually seeing andunderstanding people.
And so you know you mentionedpragmatic and practical, like.

(30:56):
There's so many things too thatwhen we're creating right, when
the idea's in our head, when weknow where we're going, but we
don't have the physical evidencefor it yet, it can feel
irresponsible.
It can feel that we're notdoing the right logical thing.
If we're not creating from thathustled frenzy place, and I
think that's one of the biggestchallenges how do I slow things
down, how do I make thisinteraction truly about the

(31:18):
relationship and how do I trustand know that by slowing it down
I'm speeding things up, thatwe're actually going where we're
meant to be going, that I'mtaking the time to show somebody
that I care about them, tobecome relatable, to build that
know like and trust factor,because when that's built,
people buy from people and theybuy from people that they know
like and trust.
And when that's intact, we'renot selling solutions anymore,

(31:42):
we're taking somebody andholding their hand down a path
that's helping them get to theother side of what they really
want.
So we're not selling peoplethings, we're helping them make
decisions.
And so I think it's challengingsometimes to, especially in a
corporate environment.
I mean, you and I have talkedabout this before and we know
when there are quotas to makeand there's a target on our back

(32:03):
.
It's hard to live in that worldof not always hustle and grind
and trusting that the thingsthat we're creating are actually
manifesting.
And especially when you've gota manager and upper management
who's like forecasting thingsand they want to know your
numbers and they want to knowwhat you're doing, it's like, no
, it's coming, it's happening,right.

(32:25):
So I think that's one of thechallenges, and I think to me,
at least in my world, it comesdown to self-trust in a lot of
ways.
Like, am I trusting that?
Am I trusting myself in thedecisions that I'm making and
not outsourcing my agency tosomebody else because I'm so
afraid that I don't trust myself?

(32:46):
And the hustle and grind ends upjust being a mask, right?
A lot of times people are justhustling and grinding and
burning out.
They're just on a hamster wheel.
They're not actually creatinganything, they're not actually
doing anything, they're justmaking it look like a certain
perception, but really they'renot creating the results that
they want to create or that theycould create.
And so I think that to me,that's what it ends up being the

(33:07):
hustle culture ends up being amask in a lot of ways, cause,
like you said something willhappen, right, you'll create
something.
And it's like, ooh, we createdit because we were frenzied, not
really Right.
The, the, the, the frenzy, thescatter is really about fear of
something and that self-trust.
When we really truly have thatconnection to ourself and our

(33:28):
relationship with ourself isintact, then we have to know and
trust and believe that whatwe're creating, even when we
can't, it's like the invisibleprogress, right, even when we
can't, we know thatenergetically it's moving
towards us.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
I love that.
All right, I want to delve intoexactly what to say for a
little bit, because I'mfascinated.
So Nicole referenced thisearlier.
For those of you that arelistening and for those that
you're watching this on YouTube,I'm going to hold this up.
It's a book by Phil Jones.
It's called exactly what to saythe magic words for influence
and impact.

(34:04):
It's a very short, very easyread and very impactful read.
It blew my socks off.
I was like unbelievable.
The more I looked over some ofthe phrases and the different
things that Phelps reallystudied and brought to the
forefront, the more I realizedwe inadvertently use some of

(34:24):
these phrases in our everydaylanguage and they are what work.
So why not bring it to thisarena of sales to help really
bring people's inhibitions downaround it and to help people get
closer to movement, because Ithink that's really what,
ultimately, we're trying to do,right, get people unstuck, get

(34:45):
people to understand that wherethey are is probably not where
they want to hang out.
Otherwise they wouldn't betrying to have a conversation
with us in the first place.
So talk to me a little bitabout exactly what to say.
And obviously energy plays anenormous part of this, but
knowing that there are alsothese magic phrases out there,

(35:07):
if you will, that really helpbring people's guard down and
create more, I think, bring youcloser to the person.
Help us understand a little bitabout this, the philosophy
behind it.
You're obviously now certifiedin it.
You're teaching it yourself, soobviously it's something you
believe very, very strongly in.

(35:28):
Talk to us a little bit moreabout it.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, I think a lot of times and I believe this when
I first started sales we havethis idea that, like there are
certain phrases or things we cansay that like Ooh, if I just
say this, right, like it's, whensomebody says this, you say
this.
And that if we just know theperfect thing to say, that
somebody will just go okay,here's my business.
And although exactly what tosay is a series of magic phrases

(35:55):
that help you communicatebetter, they're not magic
phrases, because you wave yourmagic wand and when you say it,
somebody just you know, here yougo, here's all my money there
is because you wave your magicwand and when you say it,
somebody just you know here yougo, here's all my money, there,
there, there we go.
It's actually about and you saidit building a stronger
connection, helping tounderstand people, and what the
magic phrases actually are arephrases that speak directly to
the subconscious brain, and thereason that's important is you

(36:19):
mentioned this a couple of times, michelle what we're really
looking to do is help peoplemake decisions.
That's it.
We're helping them get fromwhere they don't want to be,
from where they currently are,to a point of clarity, and
sometimes that clarity is yes, Iwant to move in this direction,
and sometimes that clarity isno, I want to move in this
direction instead.
Yes or no are good things.
Maybe is where most people getstuck Right, and when we're

(36:41):
having a conversation withpeople, what we really are as
salespeople is we'reprofessional mind maker uppers.
I love it.
That's all we are.
We're just helping somebodymake up their mind.
And when you get into a salesconversation with somebody, or
any conversation with somebody,if you left them in the same
place that they were when youstarted that conversation, you
haven't served them.
You haven't helped served them,you haven't helped.

(37:05):
Selling is serving, not justserving because, oh, I got a
transaction, so I'm helping thatperson.
Sometimes just getting them toa point of clarity is the
highest service that we canoffer.
And when we know how to use ourwords to speak to their
subconscious brain to help themmake decisions, then we are
serving them in that moment toget to a point of clarity.
And the reason that it'simportant we're talking to the
subconscious brain is here's howthe subconscious brain works.
For those that don't know,right now it's working for you,

(37:26):
beating your heart, it'sbreathing your lungs, it's
blinking your eyes.
As a matter of fact, you'veprobably gotten in your car
before and you've driven to avery familiar place and when you
got there you're like oh, Idon't even really remember
driving here because it wasalready programmed in your
subconscious brain.
So all day long, yoursubconscious brain is making
decisions for you.
It does not get stuck in, maybeland?

(37:47):
Your subconscious brain has yesand no outputs.
So when we have phrases that wecan use that speak to someone's
subconscious brain, we're ableto more efficiently and
effectively help them makedecisions that they want to make
Because, to your point, they'renot in that conversation
because they don't want to dosomething about their situation.

(38:08):
They're there because they do.
There's resistance, there'shesitancy, for whatever reason,
and a lot of times it goes backto what you and I were talking
about earlier the pragmatic, thepractical, the logical, the
reasonable, the rational, theresponsible.
People get stuck in thoseworlds of well, that's not
responsible for me to do, butthey really want to do it.
How do we help them make adecision to do it?

(38:30):
And it's not about our agenda.
I think that's the other thingtoo.
A lot of times people are likeyou know, I want to make a sale.
Well, how do you know that it'sright for that person?
How do you know that that'swhat they want?
How do you know?
Because this isn't about whatyou need and it's also not about

(38:52):
what they need.
It's about what both of youneed and if it's the right fit
for both, regardless of whatyou're selling, whether it's a
service or a product or whateverit is.
And so when we understand how tospeak the subconscious brain,
when we slow things down becausethat's a big part of the
exactly what to say methodologyit's slow it down and it

(39:14):
actually speeds up the process.
Because what happens when weslow things down?
The other person feels likethey're cared about, they feel
seen and understood.
Because when we slow it down,we come in asking questions, we
come in curious, we come inseeking to understand the other
person, we come in looking to beinterested, not interesting and

(39:34):
what happens is they feel thatsomeone's interested in them.
They feel that somebody'sasking them questions to find
out the context of what's reallyimportant.
The alternative to that is wecome in as advice monsters and
we try to tell people what to doand we come in with such
certainty and that createsfriction that actually pushes

(39:55):
the other person away.
But when we show up and wegenuinely care about the other
person and we ask thosequestions and we gain that
context, not only are we hearingcontext, but quite often the
other person is hearing them saythings out loud that they've
never heard themselves say, andhere's the beauty of that.
Nobody can argue with their ownwords.

(40:18):
So when you're looking rightwhen you're looking to be that
professional mind maker upper.
Here's a really important thingto remember People do things
for their reasons, not yours.
When you slow things down, youask questions and you stay
curious.
You're finding out theirreasons.
So now, when you makerecommendations, you're not

(40:40):
making recommendations becauseyou want it, you're making
recommendations because ofsomething that they said.
And when we're going to make arecommendation, this is a magic
phrase that I hope everybodywrites down as they're listening
to this.
If we use the phrase because ofthe fact that you said X, I'm
going to recommend Y, I'm goingto recommend Y.

(41:09):
Not what I think you should dois because of the fact that you
said X.
Now how do we get the X?
We ask questions, we slow itdown, we stay curious and now
we're making a recommendationbased on their reasons.
And it's much harder for peopleto argue with their own words.
They can't.
But if we don't slow it downand ask better questions, we
don't ever gather their words,we don't ever gather that

(41:29):
context, and then it feels likewe are trying to sell them
something instead of helpingthem make a decision to buy.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
Let's focus in on here a little bit, because I
think most people listening inare in some sort of sales, and
I've talked about this on theshow before.
Everybody's selling something,whether you're selling your kids
eating vegetables, or you'reactually in a professional sales
position in corporate or you'rea coach or some sort of course
creator and you need to sell asa living in that regard.

(42:01):
And so what are most peopleforgetting to do or doing wrong
when they're trying to close orthey're trying to have a
conversation that gets to somesort of movement forward, or is
that the problem that they'retrying to close?
And I think that that's reallywhere the chafing comes in for a

(42:24):
lot of us on whether or not.
How long does that relationshipbuild need to happen right In
order for there to be apotential either yes or no
decision.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, I think the close, when we are actually
asking for the business, weshould already be so certain
that it is the right next stepfor them and we should have
taken enough time, whether it'sthat one conversation or it was
months of conversations right,there's now buyers, there's soon

(42:59):
buyers and later buyers, and wecannot enter into conversations
and assume that people aregoing to make decisions on our
timeline.
We can use magic phrases, wecan use connection to expedite
the timeline by helping them seethe reasons that they might
want to make a decision, but wecan't walk in and thinking, oh,
I'm going to close this dealunless you actually know already
that it's the right next stepfor the person and unless they
know it as well.

(43:20):
You know, like I had a healthcoaching client a couple years
ago.
She was like, oh my gosh.
I met this man the other day atthis event and he's overweight
and he really needs my help.
I said, whoa, slow down, sister.
What do you mean?
He really needs your help?
Did he say that?
And she goes no, but he's likeseverely overweight.
I said what if he's okay withbeing overweight?

(43:43):
What if he's not looking tomake a decision?
What if going home and bingewatching Netflix and eating a
bag of Doritos every night iskind of his jam right now, like
we can't make decisions forother people, and so I think the
thing that most people do inclosing is they aren't.
They haven't arrived to thatpoint with the other person

(44:06):
where both people are prettyclear that that next step is the
right next step, and too manypeople are trying to get married
on the first date.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
I love the analogy.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, I mean, there's so many Dating and sales.
Yeah, I mean, there's so many.
It's like dating and sales,there's so many similarities
between the two, right, and youhaven't even had appetizers yet
with that person and you'retrying to get married.
You got to slow it down andtruly I've said it a couple of
times and I'll keep saying itslowing it down really does
speed it up.
Because what happens when weslow it down, we're not coming

(44:40):
in, going, hey, I want to sellyou something, hey, I know
what's best for you.
Happens when we slow it down,we're not coming in, going, hey,
I want to sell you something.
Hey, I know what's best for you.
That is such a turnoff, right,that is such a turnoff.
You're an advice monster andthat creates friction.
But I mean, I had somebody askme a question the other day.
She was like well, do you thinkthat this is right for me?
Like, you know an offer that Ihad that she had inquired about,

(45:00):
and I said, well, possibly, butpossibly not.
What would you be looking tocreate and what kind of outcome
would you be looking for?
Like, I don't know.
Do I know I can help a lot ofpeople?
Yes, but I need them to believeand know that that help is
right for them.
And I think when we're tryingto close, a lot of times we've
already made up our mind that wecan help that person and we

(45:22):
want to help that person, but wehaven't helped that person
arrive at that realization thatthey want and need the help.
And when you're ready to landthe plane, if you will close the
deal, ask for the business.
It's almost like you're at thatpoint where and I know as women
we don't necessarily do this asoften, but if you've ever asked
somebody to marry you, you'reprobably pretty darn sure of

(45:44):
what their answer is going to be.
You're not shooting the 50-50shot, right?
It should be the same in aconversation around moving
forward, doing business together.
You should be pretty darn sureand so should they that that
next step is the right one.
That's not to say that peoplewon't still have hesitation.
Objections are always going tobe a part of what we do, because

(46:06):
objections are just a question.
Objections are actually buyingsignals, because if somebody
really didn't want the thing,they would say that it's really
not the right fit and they don'twant the thing.
So it's not to say that therewon't sometimes still be
hesitation or concerns, but youshould be pretty clear, and so
should they, that that next stepthat you're asking them to make

(46:26):
is the right one.
And I think quite often we rushin too quickly for the close,
and you know, a lot of timesit's because there's a quota,
there's a target on your back,there's you want to make a
certain revenue goal for yourmonth, but that's all about you,
right?
And I think when we're tryingto make sales based on what we

(46:47):
want and need, we've lost ourway with what this is really
about.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
So true, and I think you know you say this over and
over again and I think it'sworth emphasizing the person
who's really it's not thegreatest term, but in control of
the conversation is the oneasking the questions, and I
think that that is one way tothink about having that.
Ongoing dialogue isn't aboutyou talking.

(47:12):
That's when you're in thatadvice monster mode and then
you're not actively listeningand you're not curious.
So when you are asking thosequestions, probably right up
into the end, it's probably moreof a question of do you think
you're ready to move forward now?
Do you have the information youneed to make a decision?
Are there more questions thathaven't been answered that we

(47:34):
need to go over?
That's actually putting it backin their court to let them
signal you if they're ready tomove forward, not you going.
I've given you my spiel.
Are you going to buy or not?

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Right, right, yeah, and I mean just like it's.
It's a gentle ask of like hey,do you feel like you want to
stay where you are for a littlebit longer, or do you see
getting support with this asbeing the right next step for
you?
Or help me understand what youfeel.
The next best steps are fromhere, right, when we put it in
here and we're asking questions,it's like you know, I famously

(48:09):
I say famously, because I'vetaught so many clients this and
they're like, oh my God, that'sso good Many, many years ago.
And I genuinely, when I'm inconversations and I hope
everybody from this conversationbetween you and I takes away
the idea of being more curiousin every area of your life I
genuinely will sit there andlisten to people from a place of
curiosity.
And I had this woman on a salescall and she was really

(48:30):
interested and she said I reallyjust feel like I need some time
to think about it.
I said great, how long do youfeel like you want to think
about it?
And she said I think a weekwould be good.
I said no problem.
I said what can I answer foryou so that, as you're thinking
about it, you have all theinformation that you need.
And she said I know I want todo this.
I just I feel like I just needto marinate on it and make sure
that.
I said that's, that's fine.

(48:51):
I'm never, I don't want to.
If I know somebody is really,really ready, like I'll say the
things that need want to do thatyou just want to give yourself
permission for, or are theresome legit things that you want
to look into?
Right?
And she said no, I just want aweek to think about it and I
already know that my husbandwill be okay with it.
I just want to talk it overwith him.

(49:12):
You know, whatever I said, noproblem.
I said can I ask you a question?
She said sure.
I said a lot of times whensomebody has taken some time to
think about it, there's somehesitations that come up and
there's a good chance that theymay make a different decision.
When we follow up next week,there's going to be two versions

(49:36):
of you, maybe a version of youthat wants to do it and a
version of you that doesn't,which?

Speaker 1 (49:41):
one.
Would you like me to support?
Support?
I love that, ooh.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Like I'll give you a week.
You need a week to think aboutit.
Go think about it, because thelast thing I want is somebody to
say no when they mean yes oryes when they mean no, and if,
at the end of the day, you'relike I really need to think
about this.
Okay, and I mean you know sales.
I know sales.
Like I'm a sales coach, I cantell people there's ways to
create urgency, there's ways tocreate reasons for people to
make a decision.
You know when they really wantto make it.
There's ways that we cansupport them in doing that.

(50:07):
But really, if somebody's likeno, I really just want to think
about it.
Okay, there's probably twoversions of you that are going
to show up.
There's a version of you that'sgoing to want to and a version
of you that's maybe going to bereally hesitant.
And she said oh my God, thatquestion actually is so good and
it scares me.
I said why does it scare you?
And she goes?

(50:29):
Because I don't want to tellyou to support the part of me
that doesn't want to do it.
I want you to help me figureout how to do this.
I said okay, so a week from now, when we follow up, I have your
permission to show up insupport of the version of you
that wants to do this.
She goes, yeah, and I said okay, like, and when we like, you
said the person in control ofthe conversation is the person

(50:50):
asking the question.
So can we just get more curious?
Can we just ask betterquestions?
You know, or like.
I've been in a conversation withpeople before and they're
really hesitant.
They're like oh, I know, Ireally want to do this.
I'm like listen, I'm hearingright now there's some
hesitation.
I'm also hearing there's a partof you that wants to do this.

(51:12):
What's keeping you in thisconversation, instead of just
saying no?
And they're like well, becauseI don't want to wait any longer,
because I know I really want todo this, because I know I need
this support.
Oh now, who's telling me allthe reasons why they want to do
this?
I'm not trying to convince you,but I'm going to ask the
questions that allow you toconvince yourself.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
I love that.
You put them in the driver'sseat, you let them make the
decision.
You're not forcing anything onthem, you're allowing them to
come to that conclusion, andthen they're going to own the
process as well, much more and Ithink they'll get more out of
the actual coaching.
So that's fantastic, nicole.
As always, it's been aphenomenal conversation.
I think you and I could go onforever, so that just means

(51:45):
you'll have to come on, we'llhave to do a part two, but
before we go, I'm really curiousabout you and 2025.
As we close out, 2024, what'son the horizon for you?

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Like the continuation of my birthday conversation
last night.
I love it.
You know I set some prettyspecific goals in 2024 around my
speaking career, and it'sexciting now to get to the end
of 2024 and go, oh my gosh, likeI checked those boxes.
I did that and I feel like I'mon a very different trajectory
and momentum in that way, and sospeaking is going to be an even

(52:20):
more exciting thing for me inthis coming year because I've
built that momentum.
And the other thing that I'mreally excited about is I've
reconnected again with what mypurpose is all about, with
supporting and serving women inthe sales capacity, and I have
created a new program that I'mvery, very excited about a
mastermind for women who arelooking to do exactly what we've
shared in this conversationsell in a way that feels really

(52:43):
good, that's really effective,that they can show up and really
be of service to the peoplethat they're looking to help.
And it's exciting to think thatI love how much possibility
there is for women in the worldtoday, and that's something that
I'm really looking forward toin 2025.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Well, I'm so excited.
So a couple of things.
How can people find you?
And Well, I'm so excited, so acouple of things.
How can people find you andtell us a little bit about what
those programs look like?
We're going to make sure wehave the links to those as well
in the show notes.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
So you can find me on Instagram.
That's where I'm the mostactive.
I am at the Nicole Kramer, andif something stood out to you
today from our conversation, I'dlove to hear from you and DM If
any of the questions that wewere talking about resonated
with you.
I do have a list of 23questions that sell would be
happy to share that with you.
So reach out to me on Instagramat the Nicole Kramer, and just

(53:33):
tell me you want the list ofquestions and I'll be happy to
send it to you, and there are acouple of programs coming up
this year that are prettyexciting for people who are
looking to get better at notjust selling but elevating their
ability to connect with peopleand communicate in a way that
helps people make decisions.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
And again, we'll include the notes, and I think
this is so important becausewe've talked about this before.
I come from a public relationsand marketing standpoint, so a
lot of people are like you weredoing sales, I said for more
than 25 years.
I mean, that's what I was doing,whether or not I was selling
somebody on a project or we weredoing a program.
Ultimately, at the end of theday, you're trying to influence

(54:11):
people and hopefully give themsomething they need and that's
going to help them move forwardin their journey, whatever that
looks like, whether it'sprofessional or personal.
And so I think, the more thatwe all are equipped with asking
good questions, being curious,becoming active listeners this
is going to translate wellbeyond the professional arena.

(54:32):
It works well also.
Personally, I found that justeven connecting with my
17-year-old as we embark on thewhole college about ready to
launch him into the collegearena and thinking about what
kind of college he wants to beat, what kind of experience he
wants to to have in the yearmoving forward it's incredibly

(54:52):
helpful to just get curious andask those questions and get to
know people better and they'llopen up and they trust you more.
And what is, at the end of theday, the no like and trust
factor is helpful anywhere youare walking, personally or
professionally.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Well, I'm glad you said that too, because there's
one last quick story that I'llshare.
The first time I ran one ofthese workshops on exactly what
to say was like three or fouryears ago, I think, and one of
my clients came to me and shesaid oh my gosh, nicole, I just
made a $5,000 sale.
I said, oh my gosh, that'samazing, carrie, congratulations
.
She said no, but that's not themost important thing.
You saved my marriage.
I said tell me more.

(55:28):
She said I'm using everythingyou taught me about this way to
communicate and stay curious andask better questions.
My husband and I have hadconversations we've never had
Like you've saved my marriage.
I said could you put that in avideo for me?
She said I'll shout it from themountaintops Like it's changed
my life.
And so to your point, michelle.
This isn't just about makingmore sales.
This isn't just about business.
This is really about connectionat the highest level and truly

(55:52):
seeking to connect with thepeople that we care about and
understand them and communicatehigher, and so that you know we
feel better and we're able toconnect with the people that
really mean the most to us.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Absolutely, Nicole.
Thank you again for coming onthe show.
It's always a pleasure to spendtime with you.
It's always very enlighteningand engaging and I feel like we
are soul sisters through andthrough.
So I hope that you'll come backagain.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
I absolutely will.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's always a delight to have aconversation with you, and I'm
glad we got to do this today.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
All right, everyone.
Until next time, go and liveyour extraordinary life.

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