January 7, 2025 • 37 mins
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You cannot show up with charisma, with magnetism,
to a moment that you're not evenpresent to.
We're never going to be ourmost nimble within a
conversation if we're nottotally present to the person in
front of us who's speaking tous.
So we need to always.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hi, I'm Michelle Rios , host of the Live your
Extraordinary Life podcast.
This podcast is built on thepremise that life is meant to be
joyful, but far too often wesettle for less.
So if you've ever thought thatsomething is missing from your
life, that you were meant formore, or you simply want to
(00:38):
experience more joy in theeveryday, then this podcast is
for you.
Each week, I'll bring youcaptivating personal stories,
transformative life lessons andjuicy conversations on living
life to the fullest, with thehope to inspire you to create a
life you love on your terms,with authenticity, purpose and
(01:00):
connection.
Together, we'll explore what itmeans to live an extraordinary
life, the things that hold usback and the steps we all can
take to start living our bestlives.
So come along for the journey.
It's never too late to getstarted, and the world needs
your light.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the Live your ExtraordinaryLife podcast.
I'm your host, michelle Rios,and today I am thrilled to have
with me a dear friend, brettMcDermott.
Brett, who happens to be thehost of the Persistence Playbook
podcast, himself is also knownas the Charisma Hacker, so we're
(01:43):
going to talk all thingscharisma today, which I'm so
excited about because I thinkit's important, but I also love
the interplay with authenticity.
So Brett is also acommunications expert.
He teaches individuals how tobring their innate charisma to
the surface, and his journeybegan with a passion for helping
(02:03):
people to express themselvesmore confidently.
So, without further ado, brett,welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
All right, Michelle, I'm excited to be here.
I appreciate the kind words.
That was a hell of an intro.
I'm pumped up.
Let's go so excited All right.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
So first of all, I just have to start with the
question I ask all of my guests,which is Brett McDermott what
does it mean to you to live yourextraordinary life?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
It's a great question , right, and I think it probably
gets a variety of answers froma variety of people.
So if I were to answer thatquestion as authentically as I,
can, you know, what does it meanto live my extraordinary life?
I would have to say it means togo for that dream in your heart
(02:50):
and, whatever that is, toreally go after it.
And I think most of us knowwhat that dream is, even if
we've buried it for years andyears and avoided it because
we're scared of failing Findingthe courage today to put aside
20 minutes and start taking somemicro steps towards that dream,
because we don't want to be 90years old and, god willing, we
get that far, looking back onour life and thinking what if,
(03:15):
what if I went for it?
To me, that is what it's allabout.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I love that answer.
Yeah, I mean.
Regret is a terrible thing tohave to end your life with, for
sure, and I really do think.
The more I've had time tomarinate on this topic, one of
the things that really comes tolight for me is the fact that
our dreams are more than likelythe DNA coding of what we came
(03:40):
here to do, right, as spiritualbeings having a human experience
, and yet we think somehow, onsome level, it's selfish to
pursue those.
We should be practical,pragmatic, do the more
responsible thing.
Why follow our dreams when wemight fail?
And yet I actually think a lotof us who allow ourselves that
(04:01):
space whenever that happens inyour lifetime, realize oh my
gosh, I've been putting off thething that I was meant to do in
this lifetime and that when youstep into it, the path appears
and doesn't mean it's going tobe an easy path, but you really
start to feel like, oh yeah,this is my calling, this is what
I was meant to do, and youstart to see it in little ways
(04:23):
Like you'll get a text.
Wow, what you said reallyimpacted me, really had me think
, or you have no idea that thatreally encouraged me, or
whatever.
The thing is Right.
But I really do believe thatthose dreams that a lot of us
kind of packed down and buriedare really what we're here to do
in this lifetime.
So I love that answer and itresonates so deeply with me.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, I appreciate that and you know, I think
you're a great case of thatright.
You had an incrediblysuccessful career.
You didn't have to go on thisnew voyage of thought leadership
and coaching and podcasting,but you had a dream in your
heart and you said you know what, I'm going after it and maybe
I'll make it and maybe I won't,but the important thing is is
I'm going to do my best and youare making it happen.
(05:07):
God bless you, but you're goingafter it.
And I think it just goes toshow that, even if we're having
really a lot of success in onearea of our lives, it doesn't
mean we can't try something else.
We don't have to give up thatfirst part of our lives.
Let's just take some microsteps in that other direction
and let's see how it feels.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
All right, my friend, let'sdelve into this whole charisma
hacking.
The title charisma hacker issuch a captivating one.
Can you share with me the storybehind it and what inspired you
to focus on helping others tapinto their charisma?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
For sure, and I know a lot of people kind of
gravitate towards that name andI don't know if I have a great
story behind the name, otherthan I just thought it was kind
of catchy really.
But truthfully, I think thatwhen you're hacking into
anything, it means that you arebuilding a skill set within that
realm.
And I do think that charisma isa set of skills.
It's not one skill, it's avariety of skills, and if you
(06:03):
kind of concentrate on buildingall of these little skills one
by one, eventually you can bewhat people know as a
charismatic person.
And I would say that my journeythat led me towards teaching
charisma really kind of datesback all the way to the book
that's kind of over my leftshoulder, which you may or not
be able to see, and it's how towin friends and influence people
(06:24):
.
And I would say if there was abook in my life that had the
biggest impact on me, it wascertainly that one.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Just for our listeners, real quick.
So that's a Dale Carnegie book.
It's a classic.
If you haven't read it, doyourself a favor, go on Amazon
and pick up a copy.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
How to Win Friends and Influence how to win and
influence people, and influencepeople, dale Carnegie.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
So, and this goes back to, I want to say, the
1930s, right?
It's a classic, it's beenaround for a really long time.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Came out around the same time as like Think and Grow
Rich.
I feel like those are the twoOG personal development books
that you hear of over and overagain, and there's a reason that
they've both been inpublication for almost 100 years
no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
It's really important to kind of break through.
What does it mean to becharismatic?
What is charisma and why do weneed it?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
For sure.
Yeah, and charisma, I think,when you boil it down, is the
ability to impact the peoplearound you, hopefully in a
positive way.
It's the ability to lead people.
It's people wanting to be ledby you.
It's the ability to connect.
It's people wanting to bearound you.
And I think, if we were tobreak it down into three pillars
(08:02):
, I think this is a reallyvaluable way to look at charisma
.
Break it down into threepillars, I think this is a
really valuable way to look atcharisma.
You need to show power.
People need to think that youhave the power to move mountains
, that you could be an asset tothem if needed.
You need to show warmth.
Warmth is pillar number two.
People not only need to knowthat you have power, but that
you want to use that power forgood, that you genuinely want to
(08:25):
help people.
And then the third pillar ofcharisma is presence.
You not only need to bepowerful, you not only need to
be warm, but you need to bepresent to the current moment.
People need to feel that you'reactually there with them on a
second to second basis, thatyou're not lost in your thoughts
or thinking about what you'regoing to do next Tuesday.
So I would say those are kindof your three main pillars.
(08:45):
Within those pillars there aremicro skills that you need to
hit on, but I'd say power,presence, warmth, that is your
charisma formula.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
All right, I'm going to throw you a curveball that I
know you can handle, but I thinkit's important for us to just
kind of go through this.
There are a lot of verycharismatic people that aren't
necessarily good guys out there.
So one of the things I thinkyou got to think about and I'm
saying this as an openconversation is how do we ensure
that charisma really is usedfor good, Because we even think
(09:20):
about it from I'm not superreligious, but even biblical
references saying if Satan isone of the most charismatic
fellas you're ever going to comeacross and it comes in
disguises, right that you getpulled and led astray.
I've met many, many charismaticbusinessmen that actually had
ulterior motives that weren'treally genuine or sincere,
(09:41):
because they wanted to win thedeal or what have you.
So how do we ensure thatcharisma and the way we think
about it, with leaders that wethink about with integrity, like
maybe Barack Obama or politicsaside, but folks that we think
of as being integrity-ledindividuals that have had it?
How do we ensure that charismais used for good?
(10:03):
Because I do think it's aseductive skill that could be
used either way, right?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I think it is, and I think that's certainly an
interesting question, probablyone I haven't answered too many
times, but I certainlyappreciate the authentic
question here, michelle, and Ithink if I were just to be
totally honest with you it'sgoing to be tough for us to make
sure that people are alwaysusing this skill for good
purposes.
I think human beings, for themost part, are good, but we've
all got a little bit of evil onus, and some of us have more
(10:31):
evil than others that are goingto try and do things in a
backhanded way, that are nottrying to help the people in
front of them.
So I do think, though, that whenyou're with someone over a
period of time and I thinkpeople can fake it for short
spurts of time, especially thewarmth one People can fake that
warmth for small periods of timeand make you think that they've
got your best interests in mind, when maybe they really don't
(10:53):
at all.
But I do think, over the longterm, if you're spending days
with this person and longperiods of time with this person
, that you're only going to beable to fake that warmth part of
the equation for so long beforepeople are going to start to
pick up on your real intentions.
So I do think eventually thecream rises to the top and we
are able to perceive who'strying to help us and who's
(11:14):
actually trying to hurt us.
I think when you're meeting asalesperson for the first time
in a car dealership, it's goingto be tough to tell.
I don't think we're going to beable to tell, especially if that
guy's really got his game goingand he's got great eye contact
and great verbal pauses, he'sgot a genuine smile.
If he doesn't have your bestinterest in mind, sometimes
we're going to wind up paying alittle bit more for that car
than we really should.
But I do think Fair enough.
(11:35):
But I do think over the longhaul All of us are going to be
much better suited actually withpeople's real best interests in
mind, because eventuallythey're going to be able to pick
up on it if we don't.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, I think there is something that's very felt
when you're around people withgenuine charisma.
You feel that warmth and thatpresence.
And, as somebody who teachessales, one of the things I talk
about is you go into sales ifyou're a genuine person who
wants to do good in the world,with the idea of serving.
So when you're coming at itfrom a service perspective and
(12:09):
you're dialing into your naturalcharisma because I do think
people don't often realize, evenif they aren't the most
naturally overt extrovertedindividual, there's charisma in
there that needs to be drawn out.
So let's talk a little bitabout this, because I do want to
(12:30):
get around this idea of ischarisma innate?
Is it something we need tolearn, or is it something that
we can learn and is it somethingthat we can improve?
It's certainly something thatwe can learn, and is it?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
something that we can improve.
It's certainly something thatwe can learn and definitely
something that we can improve.
I agree with what you said.
I think everyone's kind of gottheir own brand of charisma.
It doesn't mean you have to bethe Rock or Oprah Winfrey or
Jimmy Fallon.
Your charisma could be thatyou're a really incredible
listener and that you're a greatquestion asker and you're just
incredibly present in thesituation.
It doesn't mean you have totell stories like Robin Williams
(13:05):
.
Everyone's got their own littleversion of charisma and I do
think it's innate and we've gotto find that natural charisma
inside of us and eventually, ifwe can hit on all these little
micro skills, it'll come to thesurface.
So I do know that it isteachable.
If you look at some greatspeakers in the past, they
weren't always the picture ofcharisma.
(13:25):
Look at Steve Jobs, forinstance.
If you study some of his earlykeynote speeches like way back
in the day when he first got onstage and started speaking about
Apple products he is notcharismatic, he is awkward, he
does not command the room.
He really is just not anythingthat you would picture as
charisma.
But, of course, fast forwardand he dazzled audiences.
(13:46):
He was one of the mostcharismatic keynote speakers of
all time.
That's because he worked on allthese little micro skills from
beginning to end and he madehimself into a charismatic
personality.
So, for sure, there's plenty ofexamples out there where people
have built up their charismamuscles and it's because they've
kind of just broken it down andthey've worked his philosophy
(14:06):
on what mattered, and I thinkthat that made him even more
irresistible and charismatic,and so if anybody's not read
(14:30):
some of his work toward the end,please go and check that out.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
It's fantastic.
All right, let's talk about therole of authenticity and
charisma, because I do thinkthat they boost each other in
ways.
Because you don't want to comeacross as ingenuine or faking it
, you want to have thisgenuineness to your charisma.
Talk a little bit more aboutwhat you think the relationship
(14:56):
between authenticity andcharisma is.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I think if we just go to a dinner party or we go to a
networking event and we setlike a micro goal in the back of
our head, or maybe we write itin a notepad and it just says be
authentic, be yourself theentire time, then that in itself
is going to help us feel morecomfortable and bring some of
these charismatic qualities tothe surface.
(15:21):
And I think the wordauthenticity gets thrown around
a lot and sometimes we don'teven really know what it means
anymore because we use it somuch.
But to me, I think authenticityjust means tell the truth.
When someone asks you aquestion about your life, answer
it in the most honest way youcan, and don't try and turn the
volume up on your success orsound cooler than you actually
(15:41):
are.
Try and turn the volume up onyour success or sound cooler
than you actually are.
Be vulnerable with people youknow, and if someone asks you
how is that project going andyou're actually feeling a lot of
resistance towards it and maybeyou're not as far as you'd like
to be on that project, tellthem be honest, be genuine, and
that's the type of thing thatmakes people sit forward in
their seat and actually payattention.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, people want genuineness, people want to be
told the truth, and I do thinkthere's something about leaning
into the you-est part of you,right, like that you really know
yourself so well that you don'tfeel like you need a mask in
order to poke through socialsituations, that you can just be
like yeah, I am who, I amshowing up the best way I can
(16:22):
most days.
You know, it was really funny.
I'm going to go back to thedinner party networking event,
because I go to a lot, and I wasat one this summer in
California and someone said hey,michelle, you know you have a
book coming out.
How's it coming?
And I was just sat there and Istarted laughing out loud.
What does that mean?
I said I am struggling rightnow.
(16:44):
This summer I got so far andthen I got stuck.
I hit a wall and they're justlooking at me eyes as big as
saucers, like holy cow.
She's telling us everything.
I said, yeah, I mean I'm notworried, it's going to get done
because that's who I am and I'mjust very perseverant.
But, man, it's been to get donebecause that's who.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I am and.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I'm just very perseverant.
But man, it's been a monkey onmy back this week and deep
forward.
It's like that was the talk ofthe night, like Michelle's
having a rough go.
I said I'm going to be fineguys, but like honest, in this
moment, not feeling really greatabout it, I'm going to have
another glass of wine.
Maybe I'll get some inspirationfrom this evening.
Yep, or a shit act.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Sure, but that's the sort of thing that you know
makes people feel morecomfortable talking about their
lives in an honest way, and thenwe're having a real exchange
where we're actually talkingabout our lives as they are, not
the way they're projected onInstagram, and that's just going
to make for much more valuableand interesting conversations
overall.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Much more relatable.
All right, let's talk aboutthose micro habits or micro
activities and actions we cantake to really bolster our
charisma.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Sure, sure, and I kind of, like I said, we've got
those three areas of charisma.
I usually like to start withpresence and I think most people
, especially guys, they want tostart with power, you know, and
sometimes the women that I coachwant to start with warmth.
But I'm like we really kind ofgot to back the truck up and we
got to start with presence,because presence, to me, is the
bedrock that you build thisentire charisma on.
(18:20):
This entire charisma mansion isbuilt on the foundation of
presence, because you cannotshow up with charisma, with
magnetism, to a moment thatyou're not even present to.
We're never going to be ourmost nimble within a
conversation if we're nottotally present to the person in
front of us who's speaking tous.
So we need to always start withpresence, and I think that
(18:42):
presence is just payingattention to what's happening
around us on a moment by momentbasis.
When someone's talking to us,it's doing our best to focus on
their message before preparingour own statement, and that's a
tough thing.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
That's a tough thing for all of us to do Active
listening versus preparing torespond.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah, active listening, right, and I think
that there are a few things thatwe can do to just be more
present in our dailyinteractions.
And I'd say the first thing is,whether we're with people or
not, just pay attention to thefeelings, the sensations, the
sounds around you.
Maybe it's the car horns behindyou, maybe it's the sound of
your feet hitting the sidewalk.
(19:22):
The more present we can just beto the noise that's actually
happening in our life, the morepresent we're going to be able
to be in our interactions aswell.
Second thing that we can do tojust be more present in our
interactions is if we're in aconversation and our mind starts
wandering.
We're thinking about what we'redoing for lunch.
We're thinking about why ourlast Instagram reel only got 200
plays.
We're thinking about what we'redoing for lunch.
(19:42):
We're thinking about why ourlast Instagram reel only got 200
plays.
We're not focusing on theperson in front of us.
It can help a lot to anchorourself in a mindful breath.
Just take one breath in and outof your nostrils, feel that
breath for everything that it is, and then check yourself right
back into the moment, and a lotof times that's all it takes and
then you'll be right back intothat person's message.
And then you'll be right backinto that person's message.
(20:03):
And then number three and Ijust think it's so obvious it
still has to be talked aboutit's daily meditation.
I mean, daily meditation to meis just the absolute key to
staying present in every area ofyour life.
And the science says it takesabout two months of 10 minute
daily meditation for thatprefrontal cortex imaging in
your brain to actually appearmore dense.
So there is science behind thiswhole meditation thing.
(20:26):
I mean, it's not just magichocus, pocus, mumbo jumbo.
If you meditate for 10 minutesa day, focus on your breath, for
two months you will start tosee tangible differences in how
you show up to your life andespecially to how you show up to
your personal interactions.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Spoiler alert.
At the end of almost every oneof the chapters that are focused
on the principles that I teachin my book that's coming out in
the spring, I talk about whatare the ways to apply that
particular principle, and I wastalking with a publisher who
said you know, you repeatmeditation 10 minutes a day
every day, preferably in themorning if possible almost on
every one of your principles.
(21:10):
And I said, yeah, it's thatimportant.
She's like we should probablyjust preface this with there's
going to be some repetition.
How do you apply this principle?
Well, first of all, 10 minutesof meditation.
I don't care if you're justsitting there for the first
several weeks of your life.
10 minutes is to create thatexpansion and space to
contemplate a new chapter, a newreality, a new vision for your
(21:33):
life, and it's the bedrock of alot of the things I teach.
So I'm right there with you100% If you really want to
change your life, spend 10minutes a day, quiet
introspection.
It's amazing what it can do.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
It works and it's just going to help you in so
many ways.
It can help you focus on thethings that really matter for
longer periods of time.
It's going to help you toresist the urge to eat that Oreo
cookie at the end of the nightthat you know that you really
don't need.
It's going to help you makebetter decisions.
I mean, you can go right downthe list 10 minutes of
meditation is probably the bestROI you can get on just about
(22:09):
anything in your life for thatshort of a period of time.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Weird, just didn't think on today.
You never know what's going tohappen and I am pleasantly
surprised that we both are atthat same takeaway.
All right, let's talk a littlebit about, just in terms of body
language and presence, tone ofvoice and the connection with
charisma, because I do know thatthat we have very similar
backgrounds, because I know youhave a background in
(22:35):
communications.
I ran a PR agency for 25 years,so being in front of people and
giving speeches and talks andinfluencing people was part of
the job, and I know thatintonation really plays heavily
in capturing people's attentionand bringing them on a journey.
So talk a little bit about howyou work with people on things
(22:56):
like tone and body language.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
For sure.
And I'd say a lot of tone, bodylanguage, inflection, it kind
of speaks towards the powerpillar of the entire charisma
triangle.
There, you know, we've coveredpresence.
We're kind of moving on topower now.
So I'd say when I work withpeople, usually one of the first
nonverbal cues that I'll kindof teach them to ingrain in
(23:20):
their habits is good posture.
And I just think that if wekind of concentrate on our
posture for a few days in a rowand just make that the focal
point of what we're trying to dofrom a communication aspect,
we're just going to feel moreconfident in every situation.
We're going to get more done.
Our entire life is going to betransformed by like five degrees
if we just concentrate on goodposture.
(23:42):
And to me good posture wasexplained best to myself by Tony
Robbins a long time ago I wentto one of his conferences and
you know he's a house on firefor like eight hours a day.
Anyone who hasn't seen Tony getout there and see that guy
while he's still doing itbecause he's a force of nature.
And he talked about nonverbalcommunication for one of his
segments and he spoke aboutposture and he said that good
(24:07):
posture is pretty simple.
What you want to envision is astring ever so slightly pulling
your chest out and up.
Relax your shoulders and justenvision there's a string
attached to the center of yourchest that's just ever so
slightly pulling it outwards andupwards.
That doesn't mean you'repuffing your chest out like a
rooster.
That doesn't mean you'reholding your arms out to your
side like a Hulk Hogan actionfigure.
(24:28):
It just means your chest isever so slightly out and up,
your shoulders are relaxed, andthat is what relaxed confidence
looks like and that's what itfeels like.
So I'd say, from a nonverbalperspective, good posture at the
number one thing that we canwork on.
As far as tonality goes, there'scertainly a few things that we
could talk about here.
I think one thing that's alwaysworth talking about is most
(24:50):
people just speak a little tooquickly, and I think a lot of
people that are in leadershippositions, or maybe they're
aspiring to be a leader, coulddo well to slow their speech
down by a few degrees.
And it's going to sound slow toyou internally.
It's not going to sound slow tothe listener, it's just going
to sound slow to you.
But the beauty of slowing downyour speech, inserting some
(25:10):
pauses in your speech here andthere is that it makes you sound
more confident, more in control, and it also gives your brain a
little bit of time to catch upto your mouth and you're just
going to wind up saying morerelevant, interesting things.
If you just slow the speed downa little bit.
I'm not saying you got to belike the guy from Ferris Bueller
, bueller, bueller.
(25:31):
We don't want to be that guybecause it's still 2024 and we
got stuff to do but justoccasionally, slow your tempo
down a little bit and I thinkyou'll see people react to you
in a completely different way.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I think there is something very commanding about
slowing your speech down.
It forces the listener to alsolean in when you slow down, and
it's emphasis.
I use it all the time.
When I want to emphasizesomething, I slow right down and
you add some pauses too right.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I think the power of the pause cannot be overstated.
I think it was famous pianoplayer Arthur Scannable said the
notes I handle no differentthan anybody else.
It's the pauses between thenotes is where the art resides,
and I think that's true forcommunication too.
If we feel enough confidence topause once in a while maybe
it's at the end of a statement,maybe it's the middle of a
(26:25):
sentence we're going to projectthat confidence that we know
people are not going tointerrupt us because what we're
saying is important enough.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
A hundred percent, and this also goes into writing.
I would say one of the thingsthat I've come to really believe
is where does the comma go?
Someone says I was writingtoday.
Well, I put a comma in in themorning and we removed it later
in the day because we realizedwe didn't need that particular
pause.
But it all goes back to saywhere you put the emphasis is
(26:57):
really important all goes backto say where you put the
emphasis is really important100%, 100%.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
So I do think the pause, the slowing down of the
speech are just two things thatpeople can kind of think of at
their next networking event,their next dinner party.
I think it's important too thatwhen you're practicing these
skills, don't try and do themall at once.
Don't try and go to a party andbe great at eye contact and be
great at verbal pauses and bemore present.
Just practice one at a time,you know, and layer these skills
as time goes on.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Okay, I'm very curious if you have a story of
transformation that maybe youcan share on how charisma
changed the game for somebody.
Certainly, I think the SteveJobs example is a great one, but
I wonder if maybe someoneyou've coached, or maybe even in
your own life, if there's astory that you can share of how
(27:49):
charisma really changed the gameof their business or the impact
they were having or on theirrelationships.
I'd love for a real lifeexample if you have one.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Of course plenty, I'd say.
The first one that comes tomind is a client that I worked
with recently and he was insales and he just wasn't hitting
his numbers the way that hethought that he should, and we
kind of broke down hiscommunication process.
And usually just from talkingto someone for a half hour I can
pick out a couple of thingsthat they should kind of work on
immediately just to foster abetter connection with the
(28:20):
people around them, you know,with their clients and family
members.
And there was one thing that Inoticed right off the bat with
him was that the second Istopped speaking he was boom.
He was already had like rocketship coming off his back and he
was ready to talk and tell astory and tell me what was on
his mind.
And and I could tell that therewas like so little of a break
(28:44):
between me speaking and himspeaking and he was consistently
stepping on my sentences aswell.
I could tell he wasn't actuallylistening to anything I was
saying, right, like maybe he waslistening to the first 25
percent of my statement, but bythe end he totally lost me and
he'd already formulated thissuper cool thing that he was
going to say right back at meand I kind of brought that to
his attention and I think ithurt a little bit at first and I
(29:06):
think he was kind of in denialsaying, no, I'm listening, I'm
also just preparing my statementat the same time and I was like
it's just kind of not how itworks right.
We don't really have theability to fully listen to
someone while formulating aresponse in our head at the same
time.
So I taught him a little tacticthat I think has really helped
his overall communication andhis ability to connect with
those around him.
(29:26):
I said, when someone's speakingto you, pause before you
respond.
It doesn't mean you have topause for three seconds, but
give it a beat, give it a second, give it a half a second, give
it a little bit of time fortheir statement to land on you.
Let them fully finish theirstatement, let them land the
plane and then give it a second.
(29:48):
Let your face react first.
If it makes you happy, smile,then speak.
If it makes you concerned,ruffle your brow and then speak.
Give your mind a little bit oftime to catch up to your mouth
and also let the person in frontof you fully finish their
statement.
Because, let me tell you,there's so few people in their
life that actually let them dothat that they will appreciate
(30:10):
that on a level that you can'tfully comprehend.
So let people land theirstatement, pause, react with
your face and then respondverbally, and I think it took
about three weeks before hestarted seeing a tangible
difference in his business.
His clients felt listened to,he in turn was making much more
relevant responses because hewas actually listening to the
(30:30):
initial statement and it's justbeen a game changer for his
business.
Those are the types of thingsthat make me do this work,
because I really just think mostof us we've got good intentions
, we want what's best for theperson in front of us.
We just don't always know howto listen.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I think you're spot on with that.
I mean, communication is animportant part of just living a
human life, and the better youcan master your communication
skills overall, the betteryou're going to do in life in
general.
I think that that's just thebottom line there.
Let's talk about individualswho may be more shy or
introverted.
You might feel a littleapprehensive about being
(31:07):
magnetic and being morecharismatic.
What advice would you give tothem about bringing forth this
more magnetic quality ofcharisma and still feeling
authentic to who they are?
Speaker 1 (31:20):
sure, and I think that for someone who is maybe a
little more introverted andthey're like there's no way
anyone's ever going to look atme and say magnetic or think
charismatic, like I'm not therock, I'm not oprah winfrey,
that's just not who I am.
And I I try to explain to themthat they've got their own
unique brand of charisma.
It's within them, it's alwaysbeen there and we just need to
bring it to the surface.
(31:41):
And it's not going to be likethe Rock, it's not going to be
like Jimmy Fallon, it's going tobe your own unique charisma
that people enjoy and they wantto be around and they want to be
led by.
And we've got to just kind ofclear out the clutter and bring
that to the surface.
And the way that we clear outthat clutter is by breaking it
down step by step, reverseengineer it.
(32:01):
It's not one skill, it's nottwo skills, it's a series of
skills.
It's eye contact, it's verbalpauses, it's great listening
skills, it's staying present,and we don't try and do all
these at once.
For a lot of my clients I'llbreak it down, we'll work on
presence for a week, two orthree and then we'll move on to
the next skill, and that's kindof how you got to look at this
communication thing, thischarisma game.
(32:22):
It's a long haul process andyou're never going to be perfect
.
Sometimes you're going to go toan event and you're going to
flub your speech or you're goingto tell a story that bombs
welcome to life.
That's just how it is.
But if you're very introvertedand you're struggling with this
idea of being a charismaticpersonality, it's just important
to realize that there have beenpeople in your shoes before who
have done it and they haveascended to their most
(32:44):
charismatic self because theybroke it down and they worked on
it skill by skill by skill.
And at the end of the day, ifyou break it down and you just
knock those skills down likedominoes, a year from now, two
years from now, you can just beshowing up like a totally
different person in socialsettings.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
I love that.
All right, this is a morethoughtful question.
So if you had to distill yourphilosophy around charisma into
like one core principle ormantra, what would it be?
How would you sum this up forsomebody from a philosophical
standpoint, how you look at itas being so central to the work
(33:24):
you do and helping people bemore impactful in their lives.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I would say if you have a mission in your heart, if
you've got a vision in yourmind, if you've got something
important that you want to dowith your life, then charisma is
going to be a key part of thatformula.
And if you don't work on thismuscle and you don't train this
skill, your level of impact willmeet a ceiling, and I wouldn't
(33:55):
want that for anybody.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I love that.
All right, my friend, let'stalk a little bit about what's
coming up for you on yourjourney as the Charisma Hacker
and your coaching.
What are you working on rightnow?
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Sure, I appreciate the question.
I'd say you know we'rereleasing a course soon.
It's called Charisma 25, andit's basically 25 days to a more
charismatic self and kind ofwhat I've been talking about on
this podcast is we just kind ofbreak it down day by day, skill
by skill.
What you should be working ontoday, tomorrow, the next day.
I'll always recommend thatsomeone goes through the course
a few times.
(34:30):
You're not going to come outthe other end as charismatic as
Jimmy Fallon, but if you dofollow the steps and you do
commit to this program over thecourse of a month, you will be a
more charismatic self, so verypassionate about the course that
we've got coming out andworking on a keynote speech that
we're going to be given nextyear all over the country and
beyond.
That Persistence Playbook is abig time passion of mine and we
(34:53):
release an episode every weekand absolutely love doing that,
just like yourself, hira, onyour Extraordinary Life.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
The Persistence Playbook is a great podcast, and
I had the pleasure of being onit not too long ago earlier in
the year, though and I reallyenjoyed it and I have it on
follow.
I subscribed.
It's a great show and I lovethat.
Your episodes are roughlyaround 30, 35 minutes.
They're easily digestible, so Ihighly recommend that, if
anyone's looking for a newpodcast to add to their playlist
(35:21):
, to go ahead and put Brett's inthe queue Persistence Playbook
so where else can listeners findyou, brett?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Sure Well, persistence Playbook definitely
the number one spot if you wantnew Brett stuff every single
week on your phone.
And the other place to go wouldbe at the Brett McDermott on
Instagram where we are usuallyposting, you know, two to three
videos a week right now.
We'll probably scale that up in2025.
, but I'd say PersistencePlaybook at the Brett McDermott
(35:50):
Best two places to find me.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Yeah, what people may not know is that Brett is a dad
to a toddler and a newborn, sohe's got a lot on his plate
beyond the expansion of hisbusiness realm.
So we'll give you the leeway oftwo to three videos a week
before you start scaling up totwo or three videos a day.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh, I appreciate that .
Yeah, definitely two to threevideos a day.
When you've got a two-year-oldand a six-month-old I'm sure
there's someone out there doingit More power to them, because
that's pretty impressive they'regoing live changing diapers or
something.
Right right.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Well, congratulations again on your expanding family
and on the work you're doing.
It's really important and I'mso grateful that you had time to
come on the show and talk moreabout it and help our listeners
really take a step back andthink about how they're showing
up and if their charisma isreally all volume up or if they
could dial in a little bit more,and I wish you all the best, my
(36:45):
friend.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Thanks, Michelle had a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
All right, until next time, everyone, go and live
your extraordinary life.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Thank you for listening to today's episode.
If you enjoyed this podcastepisode, please take a moment to
rate and review.
If you have recommendations forfuture topics, please reach out
to me atmichelleriosofficialcom.
Lastly, please considersupporting this podcast by
sharing it.
Together, we can reach, inspireand positively impact more
(37:17):
people.
Thank you.
You cannot show up with charisma, with magnetism,
to a moment that you're not evenpresent to.
We're never going to be ourmost nimble within a
conversation if we're nottotally present to the person in
front of us who's speaking tous.
So we need to always.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hi, I'm Michelle Rios , host of the Live your
Extraordinary Life podcast.
This podcast is built on thepremise that life is meant to be
joyful, but far too often wesettle for less.
So if you've ever thought thatsomething is missing from your
life, that you were meant formore, or you simply want to
(00:38):
experience more joy in theeveryday, then this podcast is
for you.
Each week, I'll bring youcaptivating personal stories,
transformative life lessons andjuicy conversations on living
life to the fullest, with thehope to inspire you to create a
life you love on your terms,with authenticity, purpose and
(01:00):
connection.
Together, we'll explore what itmeans to live an extraordinary
life, the things that hold usback and the steps we all can
take to start living our bestlives.
So come along for the journey.
It's never too late to getstarted, and the world needs
your light.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode
of the Live your ExtraordinaryLife podcast.
I'm your host, michelle Rios,and today I am thrilled to have
with me a dear friend, brettMcDermott.
Brett, who happens to be thehost of the Persistence Playbook
podcast, himself is also knownas the Charisma Hacker, so we're
(01:43):
going to talk all thingscharisma today, which I'm so
excited about because I thinkit's important, but I also love
the interplay with authenticity.
So Brett is also acommunications expert.
He teaches individuals how tobring their innate charisma to
the surface, and his journeybegan with a passion for helping
(02:03):
people to express themselvesmore confidently.
So, without further ado, brett,welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
All right, Michelle, I'm excited to be here.
I appreciate the kind words.
That was a hell of an intro.
I'm pumped up.
Let's go so excited All right.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
So first of all, I just have to start with the
question I ask all of my guests,which is Brett McDermott what
does it mean to you to live yourextraordinary life?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
It's a great question , right, and I think it probably
gets a variety of answers froma variety of people.
So if I were to answer thatquestion as authentically as I,
can, you know, what does it meanto live my extraordinary life?
I would have to say it means togo for that dream in your heart
(02:50):
and, whatever that is, toreally go after it.
And I think most of us knowwhat that dream is, even if
we've buried it for years andyears and avoided it because
we're scared of failing Findingthe courage today to put aside
20 minutes and start taking somemicro steps towards that dream,
because we don't want to be 90years old and, god willing, we
get that far, looking back onour life and thinking what if,
(03:15):
what if I went for it?
To me, that is what it's allabout.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I love that answer.
Yeah, I mean.
Regret is a terrible thing tohave to end your life with, for
sure, and I really do think.
The more I've had time tomarinate on this topic, one of
the things that really comes tolight for me is the fact that
our dreams are more than likelythe DNA coding of what we came
(03:40):
here to do, right, as spiritualbeings having a human experience
, and yet we think somehow, onsome level, it's selfish to
pursue those.
We should be practical,pragmatic, do the more
responsible thing.
Why follow our dreams when wemight fail?
And yet I actually think a lotof us who allow ourselves that
(04:01):
space whenever that happens inyour lifetime, realize oh my
gosh, I've been putting off thething that I was meant to do in
this lifetime and that when youstep into it, the path appears
and doesn't mean it's going tobe an easy path, but you really
start to feel like, oh yeah,this is my calling, this is what
I was meant to do, and youstart to see it in little ways
(04:23):
Like you'll get a text.
Wow, what you said reallyimpacted me, really had me think
, or you have no idea that thatreally encouraged me, or
whatever.
The thing is Right.
But I really do believe thatthose dreams that a lot of us
kind of packed down and buriedare really what we're here to do
in this lifetime.
So I love that answer and itresonates so deeply with me.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, I appreciate that and you know, I think
you're a great case of thatright.
You had an incrediblysuccessful career.
You didn't have to go on thisnew voyage of thought leadership
and coaching and podcasting,but you had a dream in your
heart and you said you know what, I'm going after it and maybe
I'll make it and maybe I won't,but the important thing is is
I'm going to do my best and youare making it happen.
(05:07):
God bless you, but you're goingafter it.
And I think it just goes toshow that, even if we're having
really a lot of success in onearea of our lives, it doesn't
mean we can't try something else.
We don't have to give up thatfirst part of our lives.
Let's just take some microsteps in that other direction
and let's see how it feels.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
All right, my friend, let'sdelve into this whole charisma
hacking.
The title charisma hacker issuch a captivating one.
Can you share with me the storybehind it and what inspired you
to focus on helping others tapinto their charisma?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
For sure, and I know a lot of people kind of
gravitate towards that name andI don't know if I have a great
story behind the name, otherthan I just thought it was kind
of catchy really.
But truthfully, I think thatwhen you're hacking into
anything, it means that you arebuilding a skill set within that
realm.
And I do think that charisma isa set of skills.
It's not one skill, it's avariety of skills, and if you
(06:03):
kind of concentrate on buildingall of these little skills one
by one, eventually you can bewhat people know as a
charismatic person.
And I would say that my journeythat led me towards teaching
charisma really kind of datesback all the way to the book
that's kind of over my leftshoulder, which you may or not
be able to see, and it's how towin friends and influence people
(06:24):
.
And I would say if there was abook in my life that had the
biggest impact on me, it wascertainly that one.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Just for our listeners, real quick.
So that's a Dale Carnegie book.
It's a classic.
If you haven't read it, doyourself a favor, go on Amazon
and pick up a copy.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
How to Win Friends and Influence how to win and
influence people, and influencepeople, dale Carnegie.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
So, and this goes back to, I want to say, the
1930s, right?
It's a classic, it's beenaround for a really long time.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Came out around the same time as like Think and Grow
Rich.
I feel like those are the twoOG personal development books
that you hear of over and overagain, and there's a reason that
they've both been inpublication for almost 100 years
no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
It's really important to kind of break through.
What does it mean to becharismatic?
What is charisma and why do weneed it?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
For sure.
Yeah, and charisma, I think,when you boil it down, is the
ability to impact the peoplearound you, hopefully in a
positive way.
It's the ability to lead people.
It's people wanting to be ledby you.
It's the ability to connect.
It's people wanting to bearound you.
And I think, if we were tobreak it down into three pillars
(08:02):
, I think this is a reallyvaluable way to look at charisma
.
Break it down into threepillars, I think this is a
really valuable way to look atcharisma.
You need to show power.
People need to think that youhave the power to move mountains
, that you could be an asset tothem if needed.
You need to show warmth.
Warmth is pillar number two.
People not only need to knowthat you have power, but that
you want to use that power forgood, that you genuinely want to
(08:25):
help people.
And then the third pillar ofcharisma is presence.
You not only need to bepowerful, you not only need to
be warm, but you need to bepresent to the current moment.
People need to feel that you'reactually there with them on a
second to second basis, thatyou're not lost in your thoughts
or thinking about what you'regoing to do next Tuesday.
So I would say those are kindof your three main pillars.
(08:45):
Within those pillars there aremicro skills that you need to
hit on, but I'd say power,presence, warmth, that is your
charisma formula.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
All right, I'm going to throw you a curveball that I
know you can handle, but I thinkit's important for us to just
kind of go through this.
There are a lot of verycharismatic people that aren't
necessarily good guys out there.
So one of the things I thinkyou got to think about and I'm
saying this as an openconversation is how do we ensure
that charisma really is usedfor good, Because we even think
(09:20):
about it from I'm not superreligious, but even biblical
references saying if Satan isone of the most charismatic
fellas you're ever going to comeacross and it comes in
disguises, right that you getpulled and led astray.
I've met many, many charismaticbusinessmen that actually had
ulterior motives that weren'treally genuine or sincere,
(09:41):
because they wanted to win thedeal or what have you.
So how do we ensure thatcharisma and the way we think
about it, with leaders that wethink about with integrity, like
maybe Barack Obama or politicsaside, but folks that we think
of as being integrity-ledindividuals that have had it?
How do we ensure that charismais used for good?
(10:03):
Because I do think it's aseductive skill that could be
used either way, right?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I think it is, and I think that's certainly an
interesting question, probablyone I haven't answered too many
times, but I certainlyappreciate the authentic
question here, michelle, and Ithink if I were just to be
totally honest with you it'sgoing to be tough for us to make
sure that people are alwaysusing this skill for good
purposes.
I think human beings, for themost part, are good, but we've
all got a little bit of evil onus, and some of us have more
(10:31):
evil than others that are goingto try and do things in a
backhanded way, that are nottrying to help the people in
front of them.
So I do think, though, that whenyou're with someone over a
period of time and I thinkpeople can fake it for short
spurts of time, especially thewarmth one People can fake that
warmth for small periods of timeand make you think that they've
got your best interests in mind, when maybe they really don't
(10:53):
at all.
But I do think, over the longterm, if you're spending days
with this person and longperiods of time with this person
, that you're only going to beable to fake that warmth part of
the equation for so long beforepeople are going to start to
pick up on your real intentions.
So I do think eventually thecream rises to the top and we
are able to perceive who'strying to help us and who's
(11:14):
actually trying to hurt us.
I think when you're meeting asalesperson for the first time
in a car dealership, it's goingto be tough to tell.
I don't think we're going to beable to tell, especially if that
guy's really got his game goingand he's got great eye contact
and great verbal pauses, he'sgot a genuine smile.
If he doesn't have your bestinterest in mind, sometimes
we're going to wind up paying alittle bit more for that car
than we really should.
But I do think Fair enough.
(11:35):
But I do think over the longhaul All of us are going to be
much better suited actually withpeople's real best interests in
mind, because eventuallythey're going to be able to pick
up on it if we don't.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, I think there is something that's very felt
when you're around people withgenuine charisma.
You feel that warmth and thatpresence.
And, as somebody who teachessales, one of the things I talk
about is you go into sales ifyou're a genuine person who
wants to do good in the world,with the idea of serving.
So when you're coming at itfrom a service perspective and
(12:09):
you're dialing into your naturalcharisma because I do think
people don't often realize, evenif they aren't the most
naturally overt extrovertedindividual, there's charisma in
there that needs to be drawn out.
So let's talk a little bitabout this, because I do want to
(12:30):
get around this idea of ischarisma innate?
Is it something we need tolearn, or is it something that
we can learn and is it somethingthat we can improve?
It's certainly something thatwe can learn, and is it?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
something that we can improve.
It's certainly something thatwe can learn and definitely
something that we can improve.
I agree with what you said.
I think everyone's kind of gottheir own brand of charisma.
It doesn't mean you have to bethe Rock or Oprah Winfrey or
Jimmy Fallon.
Your charisma could be thatyou're a really incredible
listener and that you're a greatquestion asker and you're just
incredibly present in thesituation.
It doesn't mean you have totell stories like Robin Williams
(13:05):
.
Everyone's got their own littleversion of charisma and I do
think it's innate and we've gotto find that natural charisma
inside of us and eventually, ifwe can hit on all these little
micro skills, it'll come to thesurface.
So I do know that it isteachable.
If you look at some greatspeakers in the past, they
weren't always the picture ofcharisma.
(13:25):
Look at Steve Jobs, forinstance.
If you study some of his earlykeynote speeches like way back
in the day when he first got onstage and started speaking about
Apple products he is notcharismatic, he is awkward, he
does not command the room.
He really is just not anythingthat you would picture as
charisma.
But, of course, fast forwardand he dazzled audiences.
(13:46):
He was one of the mostcharismatic keynote speakers of
all time.
That's because he worked on allthese little micro skills from
beginning to end and he madehimself into a charismatic
personality.
So, for sure, there's plenty ofexamples out there where people
have built up their charismamuscles and it's because they've
kind of just broken it down andthey've worked his philosophy
(14:06):
on what mattered, and I thinkthat that made him even more
irresistible and charismatic,and so if anybody's not read
(14:30):
some of his work toward the end,please go and check that out.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
It's fantastic.
All right, let's talk about therole of authenticity and
charisma, because I do thinkthat they boost each other in
ways.
Because you don't want to comeacross as ingenuine or faking it
, you want to have thisgenuineness to your charisma.
Talk a little bit more aboutwhat you think the relationship
(14:56):
between authenticity andcharisma is.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I think if we just go to a dinner party or we go to a
networking event and we setlike a micro goal in the back of
our head, or maybe we write itin a notepad and it just says be
authentic, be yourself theentire time, then that in itself
is going to help us feel morecomfortable and bring some of
these charismatic qualities tothe surface.
(15:21):
And I think the wordauthenticity gets thrown around
a lot and sometimes we don'teven really know what it means
anymore because we use it somuch.
But to me, I think authenticityjust means tell the truth.
When someone asks you aquestion about your life, answer
it in the most honest way youcan, and don't try and turn the
volume up on your success orsound cooler than you actually
(15:41):
are.
Try and turn the volume up onyour success or sound cooler
than you actually are.
Be vulnerable with people youknow, and if someone asks you
how is that project going andyou're actually feeling a lot of
resistance towards it and maybeyou're not as far as you'd like
to be on that project, tellthem be honest, be genuine, and
that's the type of thing thatmakes people sit forward in
their seat and actually payattention.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, people want genuineness, people want to be
told the truth, and I do thinkthere's something about leaning
into the you-est part of you,right, like that you really know
yourself so well that you don'tfeel like you need a mask in
order to poke through socialsituations, that you can just be
like yeah, I am who, I amshowing up the best way I can
(16:22):
most days.
You know, it was really funny.
I'm going to go back to thedinner party networking event,
because I go to a lot, and I wasat one this summer in
California and someone said hey,michelle, you know you have a
book coming out.
How's it coming?
And I was just sat there and Istarted laughing out loud.
What does that mean?
I said I am struggling rightnow.
(16:44):
This summer I got so far andthen I got stuck.
I hit a wall and they're justlooking at me eyes as big as
saucers, like holy cow.
She's telling us everything.
I said, yeah, I mean I'm notworried, it's going to get done
because that's who I am and I'mjust very perseverant.
But, man, it's been to get donebecause that's who.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I am and.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
I'm just very perseverant.
But man, it's been a monkey onmy back this week and deep
forward.
It's like that was the talk ofthe night, like Michelle's
having a rough go.
I said I'm going to be fineguys, but like honest, in this
moment, not feeling really greatabout it, I'm going to have
another glass of wine.
Maybe I'll get some inspirationfrom this evening.
Yep, or a shit act.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Sure, but that's the sort of thing that you know
makes people feel morecomfortable talking about their
lives in an honest way, and thenwe're having a real exchange
where we're actually talkingabout our lives as they are, not
the way they're projected onInstagram, and that's just going
to make for much more valuableand interesting conversations
overall.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Much more relatable.
All right, let's talk aboutthose micro habits or micro
activities and actions we cantake to really bolster our
charisma.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Sure, sure, and I kind of, like I said, we've got
those three areas of charisma.
I usually like to start withpresence and I think most people
, especially guys, they want tostart with power, you know, and
sometimes the women that I coachwant to start with warmth.
But I'm like we really kind ofgot to back the truck up and we
got to start with presence,because presence, to me, is the
bedrock that you build thisentire charisma on.
(18:20):
This entire charisma mansion isbuilt on the foundation of
presence, because you cannotshow up with charisma, with
magnetism, to a moment thatyou're not even present to.
We're never going to be ourmost nimble within a
conversation if we're nottotally present to the person in
front of us who's speaking tous.
So we need to always start withpresence, and I think that
(18:42):
presence is just payingattention to what's happening
around us on a moment by momentbasis.
When someone's talking to us,it's doing our best to focus on
their message before preparingour own statement, and that's a
tough thing.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
That's a tough thing for all of us to do Active
listening versus preparing torespond.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah, active listening, right, and I think
that there are a few things thatwe can do to just be more
present in our dailyinteractions.
And I'd say the first thing is,whether we're with people or
not, just pay attention to thefeelings, the sensations, the
sounds around you.
Maybe it's the car horns behindyou, maybe it's the sound of
your feet hitting the sidewalk.
(19:22):
The more present we can just beto the noise that's actually
happening in our life, the morepresent we're going to be able
to be in our interactions aswell.
Second thing that we can do tojust be more present in our
interactions is if we're in aconversation and our mind starts
wandering.
We're thinking about what we'redoing for lunch.
We're thinking about why ourlast Instagram reel only got 200
plays.
We're thinking about what we'redoing for lunch.
(19:42):
We're thinking about why ourlast Instagram reel only got 200
plays.
We're not focusing on theperson in front of us.
It can help a lot to anchorourself in a mindful breath.
Just take one breath in and outof your nostrils, feel that
breath for everything that it is, and then check yourself right
back into the moment, and a lotof times that's all it takes and
then you'll be right back intothat person's message.
And then you'll be right backinto that person's message.
(20:03):
And then number three and Ijust think it's so obvious it
still has to be talked aboutit's daily meditation.
I mean, daily meditation to meis just the absolute key to
staying present in every area ofyour life.
And the science says it takesabout two months of 10 minute
daily meditation for thatprefrontal cortex imaging in
your brain to actually appearmore dense.
So there is science behind thiswhole meditation thing.
(20:26):
I mean, it's not just magichocus, pocus, mumbo jumbo.
If you meditate for 10 minutesa day, focus on your breath, for
two months you will start tosee tangible differences in how
you show up to your life andespecially to how you show up to
your personal interactions.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Spoiler alert.
At the end of almost every oneof the chapters that are focused
on the principles that I teachin my book that's coming out in
the spring, I talk about whatare the ways to apply that
particular principle, and I wastalking with a publisher who
said you know, you repeatmeditation 10 minutes a day
every day, preferably in themorning if possible almost on
every one of your principles.
(21:10):
And I said, yeah, it's thatimportant.
She's like we should probablyjust preface this with there's
going to be some repetition.
How do you apply this principle?
Well, first of all, 10 minutesof meditation.
I don't care if you're justsitting there for the first
several weeks of your life.
10 minutes is to create thatexpansion and space to
contemplate a new chapter, a newreality, a new vision for your
(21:33):
life, and it's the bedrock of alot of the things I teach.
So I'm right there with you100% If you really want to
change your life, spend 10minutes a day, quiet
introspection.
It's amazing what it can do.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
It works and it's just going to help you in so
many ways.
It can help you focus on thethings that really matter for
longer periods of time.
It's going to help you toresist the urge to eat that Oreo
cookie at the end of the nightthat you know that you really
don't need.
It's going to help you makebetter decisions.
I mean, you can go right downthe list 10 minutes of
meditation is probably the bestROI you can get on just about
(22:09):
anything in your life for thatshort of a period of time.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Weird, just didn't think on today.
You never know what's going tohappen and I am pleasantly
surprised that we both are atthat same takeaway.
All right, let's talk a littlebit about, just in terms of body
language and presence, tone ofvoice and the connection with
charisma, because I do know thatthat we have very similar
backgrounds, because I know youhave a background in
(22:35):
communications.
I ran a PR agency for 25 years,so being in front of people and
giving speeches and talks andinfluencing people was part of
the job, and I know thatintonation really plays heavily
in capturing people's attentionand bringing them on a journey.
So talk a little bit about howyou work with people on things
(22:56):
like tone and body language.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
For sure.
And I'd say a lot of tone, bodylanguage, inflection, it kind
of speaks towards the powerpillar of the entire charisma
triangle.
There, you know, we've coveredpresence.
We're kind of moving on topower now.
So I'd say when I work withpeople, usually one of the first
nonverbal cues that I'll kindof teach them to ingrain in
(23:20):
their habits is good posture.
And I just think that if wekind of concentrate on our
posture for a few days in a rowand just make that the focal
point of what we're trying to dofrom a communication aspect,
we're just going to feel moreconfident in every situation.
We're going to get more done.
Our entire life is going to betransformed by like five degrees
if we just concentrate on goodposture.
(23:42):
And to me good posture wasexplained best to myself by Tony
Robbins a long time ago I wentto one of his conferences and
you know he's a house on firefor like eight hours a day.
Anyone who hasn't seen Tony getout there and see that guy
while he's still doing itbecause he's a force of nature.
And he talked about nonverbalcommunication for one of his
segments and he spoke aboutposture and he said that good
(24:07):
posture is pretty simple.
What you want to envision is astring ever so slightly pulling
your chest out and up.
Relax your shoulders and justenvision there's a string
attached to the center of yourchest that's just ever so
slightly pulling it outwards andupwards.
That doesn't mean you'repuffing your chest out like a
rooster.
That doesn't mean you'reholding your arms out to your
side like a Hulk Hogan actionfigure.
(24:28):
It just means your chest isever so slightly out and up,
your shoulders are relaxed, andthat is what relaxed confidence
looks like and that's what itfeels like.
So I'd say, from a nonverbalperspective, good posture at the
number one thing that we canwork on.
As far as tonality goes, there'scertainly a few things that we
could talk about here.
I think one thing that's alwaysworth talking about is most
(24:50):
people just speak a little tooquickly, and I think a lot of
people that are in leadershippositions, or maybe they're
aspiring to be a leader, coulddo well to slow their speech
down by a few degrees.
And it's going to sound slow toyou internally.
It's not going to sound slow tothe listener, it's just going
to sound slow to you.
But the beauty of slowing downyour speech, inserting some
(25:10):
pauses in your speech here andthere is that it makes you sound
more confident, more in control, and it also gives your brain a
little bit of time to catch upto your mouth and you're just
going to wind up saying morerelevant, interesting things.
If you just slow the speed downa little bit.
I'm not saying you got to belike the guy from Ferris Bueller
, bueller, bueller.
(25:31):
We don't want to be that guybecause it's still 2024 and we
got stuff to do but justoccasionally, slow your tempo
down a little bit and I thinkyou'll see people react to you
in a completely different way.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I think there is something very commanding about
slowing your speech down.
It forces the listener to alsolean in when you slow down, and
it's emphasis.
I use it all the time.
When I want to emphasizesomething, I slow right down and
you add some pauses too right.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I think the power of the pause cannot be overstated.
I think it was famous pianoplayer Arthur Scannable said the
notes I handle no differentthan anybody else.
It's the pauses between thenotes is where the art resides,
and I think that's true forcommunication too.
If we feel enough confidence topause once in a while maybe
it's at the end of a statement,maybe it's the middle of a
(26:25):
sentence we're going to projectthat confidence that we know
people are not going tointerrupt us because what we're
saying is important enough.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
A hundred percent, and this also goes into writing.
I would say one of the thingsthat I've come to really believe
is where does the comma go?
Someone says I was writingtoday.
Well, I put a comma in in themorning and we removed it later
in the day because we realizedwe didn't need that particular
pause.
But it all goes back to saywhere you put the emphasis is
(26:57):
really important all goes backto say where you put the
emphasis is really important100%, 100%.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
So I do think the pause, the slowing down of the
speech are just two things thatpeople can kind of think of at
their next networking event,their next dinner party.
I think it's important too thatwhen you're practicing these
skills, don't try and do themall at once.
Don't try and go to a party andbe great at eye contact and be
great at verbal pauses and bemore present.
Just practice one at a time,you know, and layer these skills
as time goes on.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Okay, I'm very curious if you have a story of
transformation that maybe youcan share on how charisma
changed the game for somebody.
Certainly, I think the SteveJobs example is a great one, but
I wonder if maybe someoneyou've coached, or maybe even in
your own life, if there's astory that you can share of how
(27:49):
charisma really changed the gameof their business or the impact
they were having or on theirrelationships.
I'd love for a real lifeexample if you have one.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Of course plenty, I'd say.
The first one that comes tomind is a client that I worked
with recently and he was insales and he just wasn't hitting
his numbers the way that hethought that he should, and we
kind of broke down hiscommunication process.
And usually just from talkingto someone for a half hour I can
pick out a couple of thingsthat they should kind of work on
immediately just to foster abetter connection with the
(28:20):
people around them, you know,with their clients and family
members.
And there was one thing that Inoticed right off the bat with
him was that the second Istopped speaking he was boom.
He was already had like rocketship coming off his back and he
was ready to talk and tell astory and tell me what was on
his mind.
And and I could tell that therewas like so little of a break
(28:44):
between me speaking and himspeaking and he was consistently
stepping on my sentences aswell.
I could tell he wasn't actuallylistening to anything I was
saying, right, like maybe he waslistening to the first 25
percent of my statement, but bythe end he totally lost me and
he'd already formulated thissuper cool thing that he was
going to say right back at meand I kind of brought that to
his attention and I think ithurt a little bit at first and I
(29:06):
think he was kind of in denialsaying, no, I'm listening, I'm
also just preparing my statementat the same time and I was like
it's just kind of not how itworks right.
We don't really have theability to fully listen to
someone while formulating aresponse in our head at the same
time.
So I taught him a little tacticthat I think has really helped
his overall communication andhis ability to connect with
those around him.
(29:26):
I said, when someone's speakingto you, pause before you
respond.
It doesn't mean you have topause for three seconds, but
give it a beat, give it a second, give it a half a second, give
it a little bit of time fortheir statement to land on you.
Let them fully finish theirstatement, let them land the
plane and then give it a second.
(29:48):
Let your face react first.
If it makes you happy, smile,then speak.
If it makes you concerned,ruffle your brow and then speak.
Give your mind a little bit oftime to catch up to your mouth
and also let the person in frontof you fully finish their
statement.
Because, let me tell you,there's so few people in their
life that actually let them dothat that they will appreciate
(30:10):
that on a level that you can'tfully comprehend.
So let people land theirstatement, pause, react with
your face and then respondverbally, and I think it took
about three weeks before hestarted seeing a tangible
difference in his business.
His clients felt listened to,he in turn was making much more
relevant responses because hewas actually listening to the
(30:30):
initial statement and it's justbeen a game changer for his
business.
Those are the types of thingsthat make me do this work,
because I really just think mostof us we've got good intentions
, we want what's best for theperson in front of us.
We just don't always know howto listen.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
I think you're spot on with that.
I mean, communication is animportant part of just living a
human life, and the better youcan master your communication
skills overall, the betteryou're going to do in life in
general.
I think that that's just thebottom line there.
Let's talk about individualswho may be more shy or
introverted.
You might feel a littleapprehensive about being
(31:07):
magnetic and being morecharismatic.
What advice would you give tothem about bringing forth this
more magnetic quality ofcharisma and still feeling
authentic to who they are?
Speaker 1 (31:20):
sure, and I think that for someone who is maybe a
little more introverted andthey're like there's no way
anyone's ever going to look atme and say magnetic or think
charismatic, like I'm not therock, I'm not oprah winfrey,
that's just not who I am.
And I I try to explain to themthat they've got their own
unique brand of charisma.
It's within them, it's alwaysbeen there and we just need to
bring it to the surface.
(31:41):
And it's not going to be likethe Rock, it's not going to be
like Jimmy Fallon, it's going tobe your own unique charisma
that people enjoy and they wantto be around and they want to be
led by.
And we've got to just kind ofclear out the clutter and bring
that to the surface.
And the way that we clear outthat clutter is by breaking it
down step by step, reverseengineer it.
(32:01):
It's not one skill, it's nottwo skills, it's a series of
skills.
It's eye contact, it's verbalpauses, it's great listening
skills, it's staying present,and we don't try and do all
these at once.
For a lot of my clients I'llbreak it down, we'll work on
presence for a week, two orthree and then we'll move on to
the next skill, and that's kindof how you got to look at this
communication thing, thischarisma game.
(32:22):
It's a long haul process andyou're never going to be perfect
.
Sometimes you're going to go toan event and you're going to
flub your speech or you're goingto tell a story that bombs
welcome to life.
That's just how it is.
But if you're very introvertedand you're struggling with this
idea of being a charismaticpersonality, it's just important
to realize that there have beenpeople in your shoes before who
have done it and they haveascended to their most
(32:44):
charismatic self because theybroke it down and they worked on
it skill by skill by skill.
And at the end of the day, ifyou break it down and you just
knock those skills down likedominoes, a year from now, two
years from now, you can just beshowing up like a totally
different person in socialsettings.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
I love that.
All right, this is a morethoughtful question.
So if you had to distill yourphilosophy around charisma into
like one core principle ormantra, what would it be?
How would you sum this up forsomebody from a philosophical
standpoint, how you look at itas being so central to the work
(33:24):
you do and helping people bemore impactful in their lives.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I would say if you have a mission in your heart, if
you've got a vision in yourmind, if you've got something
important that you want to dowith your life, then charisma is
going to be a key part of thatformula.
And if you don't work on thismuscle and you don't train this
skill, your level of impact willmeet a ceiling, and I wouldn't
(33:55):
want that for anybody.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I love that.
All right, my friend, let'stalk a little bit about what's
coming up for you on yourjourney as the Charisma Hacker
and your coaching.
What are you working on rightnow?
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Sure, I appreciate the question.
I'd say you know we'rereleasing a course soon.
It's called Charisma 25, andit's basically 25 days to a more
charismatic self and kind ofwhat I've been talking about on
this podcast is we just kind ofbreak it down day by day, skill
by skill.
What you should be working ontoday, tomorrow, the next day.
I'll always recommend thatsomeone goes through the course
a few times.
(34:30):
You're not going to come outthe other end as charismatic as
Jimmy Fallon, but if you dofollow the steps and you do
commit to this program over thecourse of a month, you will be a
more charismatic self, so verypassionate about the course that
we've got coming out andworking on a keynote speech that
we're going to be given nextyear all over the country and
beyond.
That Persistence Playbook is abig time passion of mine and we
(34:53):
release an episode every weekand absolutely love doing that,
just like yourself, hira, onyour Extraordinary Life.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
The Persistence Playbook is a great podcast, and
I had the pleasure of being onit not too long ago earlier in
the year, though and I reallyenjoyed it and I have it on
follow.
I subscribed.
It's a great show and I lovethat.
Your episodes are roughlyaround 30, 35 minutes.
They're easily digestible, so Ihighly recommend that, if
anyone's looking for a newpodcast to add to their playlist
(35:21):
, to go ahead and put Brett's inthe queue Persistence Playbook
so where else can listeners findyou, brett?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Sure Well, persistence Playbook definitely
the number one spot if you wantnew Brett stuff every single
week on your phone.
And the other place to go wouldbe at the Brett McDermott on
Instagram where we are usuallyposting, you know, two to three
videos a week right now.
We'll probably scale that up in2025.
, but I'd say PersistencePlaybook at the Brett McDermott
(35:50):
Best two places to find me.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Yeah, what people may not know is that Brett is a dad
to a toddler and a newborn, sohe's got a lot on his plate
beyond the expansion of hisbusiness realm.
So we'll give you the leeway oftwo to three videos a week
before you start scaling up totwo or three videos a day.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh, I appreciate that .
Yeah, definitely two to threevideos a day.
When you've got a two-year-oldand a six-month-old I'm sure
there's someone out there doingit More power to them, because
that's pretty impressive they'regoing live changing diapers or
something.
Right right.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Well, congratulations again on your expanding family
and on the work you're doing.
It's really important and I'mso grateful that you had time to
come on the show and talk moreabout it and help our listeners
really take a step back andthink about how they're showing
up and if their charisma isreally all volume up or if they
could dial in a little bit more,and I wish you all the best, my
(36:45):
friend.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Thanks, Michelle had a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
All right, until next time, everyone, go and live
your extraordinary life.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Thank you for listening to today's episode.
If you enjoyed this podcastepisode, please take a moment to
rate and review.
If you have recommendations forfuture topics, please reach out
to me atmichelleriosofficialcom.
Lastly, please considersupporting this podcast by
sharing it.
Together, we can reach, inspireand positively impact more
(37:17):
people.
Thank you.
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