February 6, 2026 • 44 mins
For the third installment of our “Insurance Dilemma” series, we’re delving into the Nevada Assembly bills addressed wildfire impacts to insurance in the 2025 legislative session with Nevada Insurance Commissioner Ned Gaines and Elko Fire Chief Matt Petersen, who also serves as Nevada Fire Chiefs Association rural representative. Host Jenni Burr, Insurance Commissioner Gaines and Chief Petersen first talk about what wildfire-related impacts they’re seeing around the state when it comes to homeowners insurance, then shift to finding out what wildfire-related insurance bills were introduced in the 2025 Nevada Legislature session and wrap up with what’s ahead for the future.
For more full episode details including the transcript, visit
https://www.buzzsprout.com/admin/1819551/episodes/18638277-insurance-dilemma-part-3-2025-nevada-legislative-updates
Here are tips shared in the episode:
· When looking for an insurance plan, speak to an agent licensed in your state
· Document your belongings in your home and how your home is built to ensure that you have enough coverage. Find out more at https://doi.nv.gov/Consumers/Homeowners-Insurance/Home-Inventory/
To learn more about the program’s partners visit:
· Nevada Division of Insurance: doi.nv.gov/Consumers/Homeowners-Insurance
· Nevada Fire Chiefs Association: www.nvfirechf.org
· Living With Fire: www.livingwithfire.org
Resource Links
· Nevada Assembly Bill 376 www.leg.state.nv.us/App/NELIS/REL/83rd2025/Bill/12518/Overview
· Nevada Assembly Bill 437 www.leg.state.nv.us/App/NELIS/REL/83rd2025/Bill/12643/Overview
· IBHS Wildfire Prepared Home https://wildfireprepared.org/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Peterson (00:00):
You could treat your home, but if your neighbor
(00:01):
doesn't treat their home, theirhome might catch yours on fire
no matter how well your propertyis treated.
Ned Gaines (00:07):
If you build in a high wildfire area, knowing it's
a high wildfire area, you know,there is the argument that you
should take on more of therisks.
Jenni Burr (00:17):
Are you releasing those mitigation efforts having
a significant impact onhomeowners insurance here in
Nevada, or is that somethingthat is still to be determined?
This is the living with firepodcast brought to you by the
(00:39):
living with Fire Program at theUniversity of Nevada, Reno
extension. Hi. Welcome back tothe Living With Fire podcast.
I'm your host, Jenni Burr,Outreach Coordinator for the
Living With Fire program. Inthis third installment of our
insurance dilemma series, Italked to Nevada Insurance
(01:00):
Commissioner Ned Gaines and Elkofire chief Matt Peterson, who
also serves as the Nevada FireChiefs Association rural
representative. We first talkabout what wildfire related
impacts they're seeing aroundthe state when it comes to
homeowners insurance, then weshift to finding out what fire
related insurance bills wereintroduced in the 2025 Nevada
legislature session, and we wrapup by hearing about what's ahead
(01:23):
for the future. I learned a lotfrom their insights, and hope
you enjoy the conversation asmuch as I did. Let's jump in.
(01:46):
All right, welcome back to theLiving With Fire podcast. We're
here today to talk about the2025, Nevada legislature bills
that relate to wildfire and howthese bills fared in the
legislative process. So can youeach please tell us your name,
your job, and a little about howyour job intersects with
insurance and wildfires.
Matt Peterson (02:06):
So my name is Matt Peterson. I'm the Elko
County Fire Chief. I've been infire for over 20 years of
federal experience, volunteerexperience and career experience
now, and I'm currently now withElko County Fire. I'm also the
rural representative for Nevadafire chiefs. So pretty much
everything outside of Carson andVegas, I help represent some of
the smaller departments andcommunities to Nevada fire
(02:29):
chiefs, and Nevada fire chiefshas taken a bigger role trying
to know just assist withinsurance, defensible space,
kind of anything related to fireand people's homes, people
default to us as trying to bethe experts. So we have to learn
the insurance industry, learnhow the power company functions.
(02:49):
So we become jack of all tradesand try to be masters of them.
But we are not experts in thatpiece yet.
Jenni Burr (02:56):
And Ned, why don't you go ahead and introduce
yourself.
Ned Gaines (02:59):
My name is Ned Gaines. I am the Commissioner of
Insurance with the NevadaDivision of Insurance. We are
tasked with regulating theinsurance industry in the state.
We are the chief insuranceregulator. We have two primary
missions. It's to protect theconsumer in their dealings with
the insurance industry, and alsomaintaining insurance solvency
(03:23):
for the companies that aredomiciled in Nevada. We are
involved with wildfire because,you know, as part of our mission
to protect consumers, we knowpeople are being non renewed,
and so we are involved in tryingto help people do what they need
to do in terms of mitigation, tolessen the chance that they will
(03:47):
be non renewed, also to findsome alternatives and to afford
coverage so people maintainprotection on their home.
Jenni Burr (03:58):
Great. So before we jump into the bills themselves,
how are each of you seeingwildfire impacting Nevadans and
their ability to get homeownersor renters insurance?
Ned Gaines (04:10):
So we are seeing an impact on consumers in two
different ways. One is consumerswho live in wildfire prone
areas, especially in the RenoTahoe area, because that is the
one part of the state that ismost heavily wooded. So the
wildfire risk is highest there.
They are starting to see nonrenewals based on where they're
(04:35):
located, and you know, theincreased risk of a wildfire
threat. Also, the entirety ofthe state, they are seeing some
increases in their overallpremiums due to the increased
wildfire risk, even thoughwildfire is limited to certain
areas of the state. When acompany is doing their rating
(05:00):
program, it is based on the riskacross the entire state. It's
not individualized by section.
So if there is an overallincrease in a wildfire risk in a
larger area, such as Reno Tahoe,people who live in, say, Elko
(05:22):
Winnemucca, Las Vegas, they arestill going to see a rise in
their premiums as the insurersare trying to price and reserve
for that potential wildfireevent.
Jenni Burr (05:35):
And Ned, does that also like impact between states?
So as other states are seeingincreased wildfire risk, does
that mean that Nevada could alsobe seeing increases in the cost
of coverage based on, you know,what's happening in California
or Colorado?
Ned Gaines (05:51):
No. Insurance rating is based on the state. So if a
company, all companies arerequired to file their
homeowners rates with my office.
I have an actuarial team thatreviews those and if a company
tried to include losses fromanother state or an increased
(06:12):
risk in another state, we wouldnot allow them to include that
in their rating filing, becauseit does have to be specific to
Nevada.
Jenni Burr (06:24):
Good to know, thanks. And Matt, what are you
seeing across the state when itcomes to what people are telling
you about their coverage?
Matt Peterson (06:33):
So right now, I think the process for us looks
like when a homeowner is gettinga letter from their insurance
company saying, "Hey, we'redropping you due to wildfire
risk". Normally, their firstprobably reaction is panic, and
then their second phone call isus with the panic attached and
how, "hey, I'm getting myinsurance dropped. I can't
(06:53):
maintain it". A lot of times,we'll go out, we'll get their
address, we'll talk to them,we'll go out and do an
inspection, take some photos,and we'll write a report that
kind of says, or just a documentthat says: this is what our
response is to this area. Theseare fuels, projects and
mitigation that we've also donein that area. We see some
(07:15):
success with that, not as muchas we'd like, as much effort as
we put into it, but a lot ofcompanies don't understand the
front end of what districts aredoing, what communities are
doing, and the insurancecompanies are taking that into
full effect. They're, they'rebecoming more and more aware.
And something that we'vediscovered over the last, I'd
say, 12 to 24 months, isreinsurers have no idea about
(07:41):
fuels mitigation. We've donepresentations to large groups of
reinsurers nationwide that thisis fuels mitigation. We've shown
them pictures, we brought themto projects, and the immediate
reaction we get is we had noidea this occurred. We didn't
know this was a real thing. Wethought this was a conceptual
thing that people just talkedabout. So we do see the panic
(08:04):
and the success. We have notencountered anyone that we know,
and this is just my world, sothis isn't a blanket statement
that hasn't been able tomaintain their insurance or get
new insurance from a newcompany. We've seen some spikes
from folks and gotten reports,but no one's been dropped and
(08:25):
not been able to get anythingthat we we know of
Jenni Burr (08:29):
That's good. Matt, what led the Nevada Fire Chiefs
Association to get involved ininsurance issues?
Matt Peterson (08:37):
So right, our risk mitigation and our risk
reduction in communities is ourlargest driver of it. Like I
said, the first thing they getis panic at home, and then their
second phone call is panic tothe fire districts and fire
chiefs. So we're we become thedefault fixer, and so I think
that that was our big driver forthis. And right that, it does
(08:59):
impact our economies locally.
It's going to impact the state.
It's going to impact mortgages,it's going to impact safety, all
sorts of things. And so it's,it's not something we want to
own, but we definitely want tobe able to influence it in a
positive way.
Ned Gaines (09:15):
So that, Matthew, when you're getting those phone
calls, you know, I would ask,you know, refer them to my
office as well. I have aconsumer services department,
and that is their job. We can goto bat for them. We're not
always successful, but we canpresent the data, any
(09:36):
information that the consumerhas about litigation efforts
that they've taken and then workwith the company to see if there
is a way we can keep theirinsurance coverage in place.
Jenni Burr (09:49):
That's great.
Matt Peterson (09:50):
Yeah, that's That's great. That's a great bit
of information, and we can sharethat back through Nevada chiefs.
I think, for me, and notholistically, I'll keep throwing
that default statement out. Thenumber one call is panic. The
number two is to us with panic,if we can share that stress with
other people that helps out a ton.
Ned Gaines (10:09):
Part of our job is to advocate for the consumer, so
we're happy to take those calls.
Jenni Burr (10:14):
So the Nevada Fire Chiefs Association worked with
Assembly Member Dickman onassembly bill 437, what was
proposed in that bill, Matt?
Matt Peterson (10:24):
So what we were trying to do is create, it's,
it's like a fair act, which ispretty similar to other states.
In fact, there's 38 other statesthat have fair plans in the it's
an insurance of last resort, iswhat we were looking at trying
to help with. So if peoplecouldn't get reasonably priced
insurance within a certainrange, or couldn't get insurance
(10:47):
that there was an avenue. Ourintent was never that, that they
stayed on that insuranceforever. We definitely don't
want to reference when peoplereference a fair act or fair
plan, the number one topic whenyou Google, it is California,
and it's now, I think, the fifthor so largest insurance carrier
in the state of California. Wedefinitely do not want to become
(11:10):
that. We don't want to be acompetitor with private
industry. It is an insurance oflast resort, and we don't expect
people to stay on it. We expectthem now, hey, you're on a fair
plan. You need to mitigate yourproperty and then continue to
work with private industry andprivate insurance to get off of
this state fair plan.
Jenni Burr (11:31):
The purpose of the plans, then is basically to
insure them over that process ofmitigation and trying to find
somebody who will cover them, isthat right?
Matt Peterson (11:41):
Yeah, we did, we did a lot of capital days where
we went down and did a lot ofeducation with our elected
officials. When it came out ofthe assembly, it was very well
educated. When it went into theSenate, it died dramatically due
to bad information that wasbeing spread around. And it's, I
don't think it's ideal by anymeans. But, like I said, it's an
(12:05):
insurance of last resort, wasour targeting point.
Jenni Burr (12:09):
And what if anything, did the committee
agree on with that, even thoughit died once it hit the Senate.
Was there, were there any piecesthat the Senate did agree on?
Matt Peterson (12:21):
I wasn't involved with the Senate piece as much as
I was with the assembly piece.
So I can't, I can't speak tothat in in very much detail, as
we've spoken in the assembly,there were some concerns, and we
kind of talked through those,and said there's got to be some,
some good sideboards painted onthis so that it has not become
the largest insurer in Nevada.
(12:42):
And really, Ned could probablyspeak more of this, right
through my education process onthe in the previous Insurance
Commissioner, Nevada is ahealthy state for insurance,
right? I think some of theseimpacts are from Nationwide
impacts and insurance companieswanting to minimize their risk,
which, as private industryshould. Right, we're just trying
(13:04):
to make sure that homeownersstill have the ability, if
something catastrophic happens,that they're not up the creek
without a paddle.
Jenni Burr (13:12):
Definitely.
The Nevada Fire ChiefsAssociation is a nonprofit
organization that seeks to helpmember fire chiefs and fire
personnel at all levels to bethe best they can be. The
association also has wildfirerisk reduction program grants
(13:32):
available to create defensiblespace and reduce wildfire risk.
Find out more at NVFIRECHF.ORGAll right, so let's switch
gears. So Assembly Bill 376 wasanother bill introduced this
2025 session, by Assembly MemberPK O'Neill, and it passed. Ned,
(13:54):
could you give us an overview ofwhat that bill aimed to achieve,
or aims to achieve?
Ned Gaines (14:03):
Yes, so it was designed to address the growing
difficulty that some Nevadansare seeing in obtaining
homeowner insurance. As Matthewsaid, we do have a healthy
market. Yes, some people arebeing non renewed by their
current insurer, but what we arehearing from our end, they are
(14:27):
able to obtain coverage withanother insurer. We are not
hearing of anybody that iscompletely unable to find
insurance. So we still havecarriers that are willing to
write in these high wildfirerisk areas, however, you know,
it is an ongoing problem. We,you know, it's a matter of when
(14:51):
is the next wildfire and whereis it going to be. So this bill
was designed to try to get aheadof that address. It gives some
flexibility to the insurers tobe a bit innovative. So it does
a number of things. One of thefirst things it does is it does
(15:13):
allow for insurers to carve outwildfire coverage on a
homeowner's policy.
Jenni Burr (15:19):
Meaning that it could be excluded or eliminated?
Ned Gaines (15:23):
It could be excluded or eliminated. So they could
offer, if you offered ahomeowner's policy, it had to
cover fire, which included firefrom any source. With the
passage of this bill, it willstill cover all other types of
fire, but they could say we'regoing to exclude any fire that
(15:46):
is due to wildfire. There is acaveat to that, carriers can't
just drop that coverage. Theymust file with my office to
receive approval to do so. Todate, no carrier has done that.
I know there's been somemessages in the news that come
January 1, wildfire coveragepotentially will be dropped. As
(16:10):
of right now, nobody is losingtheir wildfire coverage as of
January what. In myconversations in the industry,
that's not something that any ofthem are looking to do at this time,
Jenni Burr (16:25):
And if they choose to do that, so if you're a
homeowner with an existingpolicy, will insurance companies
be required to disclose if theyare dropping that wildfire coverage?
Ned Gaines (16:35):
Yes.
Jenni Burr (16:36):
Okay.
Ned Gaines (16:37):
Yes. We are work, currently working on a
regulation to address thedisclosure requirements. That's
something that will be comingsoon. But the idea behind
allowing them to carve out thewildfire, if that's the sole
reason for being non renewed, wewanted the consumer to maintain
(16:58):
their coverage for everythingelse, because there's, you know,
wildfire is not the only perilthat a homeowner's policy
covers. You don't want them tolose their entire policy, where
they would lose if theirdishwasher malfunctions and
floods home, if they have agrease fire that starts in the
(17:21):
kitchen, you don't want them tolose coverage for that. You
know, if their dog bitessomebody, you don't want them to
lose their liability coverage.
So that was the idea behindlimiting it to just the wildfire
exclusion.
Jenni Burr (17:38):
And so question about that. So most mortgages
require homeowners to havewildfire coverage as part of
their insurance policy. So ifcompanies are allowed to exclude
it and somebody can't getcoverage for wildfire, then
what's the Division of Insuranceable to do to protect homeowners
from losing that coverage orbeing priced out by this
(18:02):
coverage that is required bytheir mortgage lenders?
Ned Gaines (18:07):
That is the second thing the bill does is it
creates a regulatory sandbox togive carriers the opportunity to
be innovative. I have been incontact with carriers that are
interested in participating inthe regulatory sandbox. One of
the ideas that could bepresented, nobody's filed
(18:30):
anything yet, but one of theideas that has been floated is
possibly doing a wildfiredeductible, a separate
deductible. It's very common forhomeowner policies to have a
separate wind and haildeductible, especially on those
states that are have a very highhail risk. Very common for their
(18:54):
they'll have their standarddeductible for every other
peril. But if any damage iscaught by wind or hail, their
deductible is slightly higher,and it's so they're taking on
more of the risk. That'ssomething that has been floated.
It could be earthquake is alsoanother example. Typically, when
(19:15):
you have an earthquake policy,your deductible is much higher
than it would be under astandard homeowners, it could be
upwards of 25%
Jenni Burr (19:24):
And with that, then, when insurance companies are
thinking about pricing that, howdoes risk play into that?
Because, you know, say you areup on along the Sierra front in
the more wooded areas, asopposed to, you know, in Elko,
and you're in more of a brushyarea, will the prices
(19:45):
potentially be like at thatstate level, where everybody is
just going to have to pay more,or is there some avenue for
having it tied more to like riskin your particular area?
Ned Gaines (19:59):
If they were, for an example, if a company decides
they are going to pull out thewildfire peril, that is, you
know, a major component of theoverall premium that would have
to adjust down. So it wouldbring down the price. If they
implement a wildfire deductible,generally, companies will offer
(20:21):
it at different levels, soconsumers get to pick how much
risk they're willing to take on,the more risk they're willing to
take on, the lower theirpremium. This could give a lot
more power to the consumer toreally make that judgment call
of how much risk can I take on.
When you live in a high wildfirearea, build an high wildfire
(20:45):
area knowing it's a highwildfire area, you know there is
the argument that you shouldtake on more of the risk,
because that is a choice thatyou are making to do so, one
that you are entitled to make,but there are consequences that
come with it.
Jenni Burr (21:06):
Matt, question for you about that, how well do you
think your average homeownerthat you're working with is at
kind of understanding their riskwhen it comes to wildfire? Like
do you think they would be ableto choose a policy that
accurately reflects their risk?
Matt Peterson (21:25):
No. It's not a problem until people are aware
of the problem. And that's just,right, that's with anything you
know your auto maintenance kindof same thing. You don't know
that you have a problem withyour engine until it's already a
problem, and then you have tolearn about the problem. And so
I think homeowners are it's nota problem until the insurance
(21:47):
industry says, Hey, you have aproblem that's currently
occurring. And going backtalking about that sandbox, I
think those are phenomenaloptions. Each insurance company
has a different map or differentproduct that they have
contracted with or utilized fromanother company that showed the
risk in that area. The state hasanother threat map. The
(22:08):
challenge with those is, where'sthe data come from? How are they
implemented? What map are theyusing? What different product? I
believe, Utah just came out withsomething this morning that said
on January 1, they're requiredto use the singular map at the
state for the top 5% of homerisk, right? So it's not an
insurance company with theirproprietary product that they
(22:31):
don't want to share saying,well, we've determined this
risk. It's the state saying,here's the consolidated data
from different sources that isnow recognized, and that's the
source they should use. I wouldlove to see the insurance office
and the insurance industry workwith NDF to one update those
maps so we have good currentdata and that, as well as work
(22:53):
with folks on the ground tovalidate data and then use that
singular map to say, here'swhere the risk really is, you
don't get to just arbitrarilydetermine where the risk is.
Jenni Burr (23:04):
And Matt, when you're talking about that, are
you also thinking about, likepulling it down to the actual
homeowners level, where then youcould incorporate things like
mitigation efforts?
Matt Peterson (23:16):
So I think homeowner individual properties
is wildly important, but I thinkthe community assessment is just
as important. We look at thosecatastrophic fires and LA, we
look at Colorado a couple yearsago, right around New Year's and
Christmas, those were entirecommunity losses. So when we're
dealing with those communityloss, and I think that
(23:37):
demonstrates holistically thatit has to be addressed at a
community level and at a largeimpact level. You could treat
your home, but if your neighbordoesn't treat their home, their
home might catch yours on fireno matter how well your property
is treated. A lot of our fuelsgoals, when we start
implementing fuels projects andcommunity. Our number one effort
(23:59):
is, can we get to your communityand through your community? So
if a fire is approaching. Thenwe look at treating around the
community, and then we treatindividual properties within the
community. So those are ourthree our three goals at Elko
County, where right we have toget to the fire, so whether it's
in your community or at the backof your community, so to and
(24:22):
through. And then is thereprotections around your
community, and so that's thatgreen strip that we're talking
about around, so, roadsidetreatments, then around your
community, then we'll come backand say, let's start working on
individual properties, becauseif we can protect it from an
external threat. That's right,that's normally where big fires
(24:43):
chew up a bunch of homes. Andthen the third one, right? And
these are all pretty rapidlysucceeding, right, I say them
that way, but it takes years tocomplete these projects. If your
neighbor's property catches onfire is yours protected. So
those are, those are kind of ourthree goals.
Jenni Burr (25:05):
During a wildfire, firefighters have a lot to do.
Make it easier for firefightersto defend your home by creating
defensible space now. Defensiblespace is the area between a
house and an oncoming wildfire,where the vegetation has been
managed to reduce the wildfirethreat. Proper defensible space
doesn't mean removing allvegetation, though. By following
(25:27):
the lean, clean and green rule,you can keep your property safe
while preserving its naturalbeauty. Check out our defensible
space guide to learn more. Youcan find the guide in the
resources section of our websiteat livingwithfire.org.
Ned Gaines (25:48):
One thing I wanted to touch on that, you know,
Matthew said earlier is, yourquestion that's kind of started
it all, about how, how much doesthe average consumer know about
their overall risk? And onething we we highly recommend
when you're looking forinsurance, go to an agent, go to
(26:10):
a licensed agent that is able toexplain how your coverage works.
Some of the mitigation that youmay need to take. And you know,
I understand it, it's very easysometimes to go with the
cheapest option when it comes toinsurance, especially when
you're on a budget. A lot oftimes those options are the
(26:33):
direct buy, where you just goonline and you purchase a
policy. The problem with that isyou have to do a lot of your own
research to understand what itis you're buying, because you're
not going to have anybody therehelping you. Very important, go
to an agent. If you havequestions about that agent, you
(26:57):
can contact my office, we cantell you whether or not that
person is licensed in Nevada.
You definitely want somebodylicensed in Nevada. You don't
want somebody that's onlylicensed in Texas. They know
nothing about the Nevada market.
So again, and they what they cando, because then you may have
(27:19):
coverage, but another thing youhave to worry about is, do you
have enough coverage. If yourhouse was to burn completely
down, have you purchased enoughcoverage to rebuild it back to
the way it was? And a good agentis going to take the time to go
through with you all of thefeatures of your home. That's
(27:43):
another thing for consumers todo. Document what you have in
your home. Document yourbelongings so that you make sure
that you get enough coverage toreplace your belongings.
Document how your home is built?
Do you have expensive tile, oris it linoleum? You know, all of
that has an impact on how muchit's going to cost to replace
(28:06):
your home, and the more researchand the more documentation you
do, if you do suffer a totalloss, the better off you're
going to be, and the claimsprocess is going to go much
smoother for you.
Jenni Burr (28:23):
That's a really good tip. So a lot of our outreach
efforts are centered aroundwildfire preparedness, and we
educate people about, you know,how defensible space and home
hardening reduce the risk ofwildfire. And we, you know,
often get that question fromhomeowners, if completing these
mitigations are going to lowertheir insurance rates or their
(28:44):
ability to get insurance. We'vetouched on it a little bit, but
for either of you, you know, areyou really seeing those
mitigation efforts having asignificant impact on homeowners
insurance here in Nevada, or isthat something that is still to
be determined on how, how thatrolls out?
Ned Gaines (29:03):
From our perspective, there are insurers
who have filed for discounts formitigation. Something Matthew
touched on, though, is thatgenerally, those discounts will
only apply if you live in acommunity where the entire
community has taken thosemitigation efforts. The fire
(29:25):
wise community is one of them.
If the entire community hasmitigated and they have reached
the level to where they are firewise certified, there are
multiple carriers that will giveyou a discount for that. But the
case where, I did mitigationthat I lived in a bigger
neighborhood, but none of myneighbors did anything. No,
(29:49):
you're not going to see adiscount for that, because while
you've done what needs to bedone, your risk didn't really go
down because your neighbors havenot done anything.
Jenni Burr (30:05):
Right, I think about that, like in my own
neighborhood, it's aneighborhood established in the
60s, so it has some very largetrees, some of which are like
big, like sequoias. And I lookat those, and I think they are
gorgeous. And I also look andthink, wow, if that starts on
fire, that's a whole Ember stormheaded toward my house that it
(30:26):
really illustrates for me thatimportance of like, yeah,
thinking about that, no matterwhat I do to my yard, if there's
these other pieces around me, orother homes around me that have
things that increase my risk,then I'm still going to do those
things in my yard, but my riskis still pretty high, and I'm
not sure that people think aboutthat very much.
Ned Gaines (30:48):
Right. And fire wise, is is a start. It is a
good program. What we reallyneed to move towards, though,
are the Institute of businessand home safety standards or
IBHS, that is the true firehardening to where, if you get
(31:08):
the whole community in, yourcommunity can become the buffer
keeps the fire from extending further.
Jenni Burr (31:18):
Right. And I think I read that the IBHS program is
now going to be occurring herein the state, is that true?
Because I think it started outin California and was in one or
two more states, but is it nowgoing to be implemented here in Nevada?
Ned Gaines (31:36):
I have heard that.
Now, I don't have a lot ofdetails, I know in California,
they recently completed thefirst fully IBHS compliant community.
Jenni Burr (31:51):
Wow, that's great.
Ned Gaines (31:53):
So everything is built to those standards. And
surprisingly, you know what getscalled out a lot when it comes
to mitigation, is the cost. Anda lot of builders have been
somewhat resistant to wanting toimplement those standards,
because they say it's going toincrease the cost of the home
(32:14):
too much. When everything wasdone in California, in this one
community, on average, it onlyincreased the cost by about $3,000.
Jenni Burr (32:25):
Wow, that's phenomenal. That seems like a
very small amount of youroverall home cost.
Ned Gaines (32:31):
Especially when you're talking about a home in California.
Jenni Burr (32:33):
Right, yeah I mean, so much more, right.
Ned Gaines (32:37):
So mitigation, and it's worth it,
Jenni Burr (32:39):
Right.
Ned Gaines (32:41):
But you know, of course, you have some people
that can $3,000 it's not a lotof money, but for other people,
$3,000 is a significant amount.
So, you know, you still have to,you know, find that happy medium
of you know, what is workable.
Also, if you have an establishedcommunity, bringing that whole
(33:02):
community up to IBHS standards.
You know, it takes a lot more work.
Jenni Burr (33:07):
Yeah, that was going to be my next question is, you
know, when you're talking aboutretrofitting homes, it's a
pretty expensive endeavor to belooking at. Do you see any
possibility that insurancecompanies would, or the state
would create a pool of moneyavailable to do those
mitigations? You know, maybe,like, some kind of a loan that
(33:30):
you can get to do the mitigationand then you pay it back, but
just something to kind ofjumpstart people's ability to do
those retrofits?
Ned Gaines (33:40):
It is a possibility.
I I myself, I'm not apolicymaker. I can make
suggestions, but, you know,that's a possibility. There are
a number of grants that areavailable through various
organizations that could helpwith that as well. You know,
it's, this is a focus for mydepartment, or my division.
(34:03):
Rather, this year is to reallystart looking at what are some
options that we have as a state,you know, in partnership with
the insurance industry to answersome of these questions and to
find a path forward. So we willbe heavily focusing on, you
(34:24):
know, the wildfire issue this year.
Jenni Burr (34:30):
Well, we'll stay tuned for more outcomes from that.
The impacts of wildfires oninsurance coverage are
increasingly on people's minds.
To find out more about thistopic, be sure to listen to our
previous podcast episode. Theinsurance dilemma part one,
wildfire risk and its impact oninsurance affordability in
Nevada, explores how wildfirerisk is affecting insurance
(34:52):
affordability and availabilityin Nevada. The insurance dilemma
part two, defining risk,explores different perspectives
on wildfire risk. Check back inthe future for more episodes
related to how wildfire isimpacting insurance.
(35:14):
So in doing some research, Iread that Colorado legislatures
passed House Bill. 25-1182,which required insurance
carriers to consider mitigationefforts at property, community
and state levels when assessingrisk and setting premiums. It
also requires insurancecompanies to share what
(35:34):
discounts are available formitigation and to allow
homeowners to see their wildfirerisk score and appeal if they
think it's inaccurate. Matt, areany similar ideas being
discussed by the Nevada FireChiefs Association for future
legislation efforts?
Matt Peterson (35:52):
We've had very casual conversations about it
because I think Colorado, Utah,are pointing their folks back to
their risk rating and a singulardata source. It's so hard for us
right now to pin what datasource they're using to say this
is a higher risk. And so we'vetalked about it, but we've
identified the problem, we havenot identified a solution yet.
(36:14):
But going back to your your lastconversation, I would love a pot
of money, either, some way to dothese inspections, to do the on
ground, on the ground,validation and the treatments. I
don't want to spook the herdwhen I say this, but I see the
insurance industry, and themortgage industry, and home
sales and everything else is ait's a bright light out there
(36:37):
that I don't know if it's arocket coming towards me or the
sun, right? It's two things thatcould change how the United
States functions, and not just aNevada problem. I think that the
insurance commissioner has donea phenomenal job of trying to be
engaged and working throughthese challenges with us. Those
pots of money is in mitigation,right? I live in a neighborhood
(37:00):
that was built. My house wasbuilt in 66 I have the same
exact issue as they Yeah, yeah.
I have the same exact issue youdo. And it's just, it's a, it's
a looming like, hey, how doesthis get mitigated?
Jenni Burr (37:12):
Yeah.
Matt Peterson (37:14):
And so those risk areas, I know there's a Southern
California University, and Ican't remember which one at this
point. We have fuel modelsacross the United States, from
everything from Southern roughto timber, right? That includes
Alaska, Tundra, everythingthere's, there's a ton of them.
They're evaluating creatinganother fuel model that is just
home to home ignitions, likethose conflagrations that you
(37:36):
were talking about. So I don'tknow how to rank those. Right?
I've done a good job of being apolitician in the sentence of
talking in a circle. I don'tknow how to rank those without a
singular set of data that we'reall looking at.
Ned Gaines (37:49):
And that's something you know we're looking at is
trying to find that singularpoint of data. There are a lot
of other entities out there thatare doing this work, and, you
know, getting them kind of cometogether, there's going to be a
focus, you know, there's acompany that's doing some doing
(38:13):
mapping that they're usingLiDAR, so their mapping is much
more accurate than, say, use ofa drone or just satellite
imagery. It's the LiDAR. Theycan actually tell you what
species of tree it is that theLiDAR is picking up, and they
can tell you whether it'shealthy or not. It's really
(38:37):
phenomenal detail they can get.
Bringing all these people to thetable is going to be key.
Jenni Burr (38:45):
And when or if, I guess, we get to a point where
we have that data set that is ata state level, ss that something
that will be shared out with,say, you know, fire departments,
so they can also use it whenthey're looking at their own,
you know, mitigation planningand fire planning, would that be
(39:08):
the goal?
Ned Gaines (39:09):
I you know, from my perspective, fire chiefs should
be, you know, part of theconversation. I will let Matthew
hear how far down, you know,they would want to bend that.
Matt Peterson (39:21):
So I'll give you some more information, then I'll
come back to that. So Westernfire chiefs is also working on
this challenge with using theIBHS standards in Nevada, as
well as mapping andconsolidating all the data
sources. So we are working onthat timeline currently is a, I
won't say a large question mark,but a medium one, I have a
(39:42):
personal tangent that I'll giveyou about maps, like, if another
company comes to me with amapping product to show me how
high the fire risk is, I'llprobably lose my mind.
Jenni Burr (39:52):
Right.
Matt Peterson (39:53):
Because we've spent more money on technology
to identify the problem that'sbeen identified for the last 50
to 100 years. I would rathertake that funding and start
doing treatments and recordingit into existing systems so we
don't have another map thatshows red is bad. I want to be
able to change the color on themap. Every time I go to a
(40:15):
conference, if you walk aroundthe conference, there's, I will
say, 50% of the booths there aretechnology that is just changing
you from one technology toanother, or a mapping program
that shows you, hey, I can showyou that your red area is still
red. And I'm like, Thanks.
That's great. I can do thatwithout a map. I think that the
technology of, let's consolidatewhat we have instead of creating
(40:38):
a new system, or showing me anew red map, and then working
toward that. And I don't thinkthat that data is a bad thing to
share, but it needs to be gooddata to share, not data from
Company A, B and C that'sselling you their product, to
show red is bad or somethingelse. It needs to be actual,
measurable data to make achange, is what I will keep saying.
Jenni Burr (41:03):
Yeah.
Matt Peterson (41:03):
Don't show me a map without giving me your money
to fix it. We've identified theproblem already.
Jenni Burr (41:08):
Yeah, that makes sense. All right. Is there any
questions you have for eachother?
Matt Peterson (41:15):
No, I've learned a lot about how the Insurance
Commission, office or divisioncan help fire chiefs. We've been
working with them for quite awhile. They had a change of
commissioners recently, so kindof let him get his feet on the
ground, even though it's, I hopeyou were running when you hit
it. It's a lot of work to catchup on.
Jenni Burr (41:35):
Anything you want to say that you want to have make
it into the podcast, or anythingyou want to revisit that you are
thinking, oh, I wish I had saidsomething or added something?
Matt Peterson (41:45):
I will say, so. I think we've identified the
problems, and our three Nevadafire chiefs, we're trying to
find as many solutions as wepossibly can. Like I will keep
saying, what problem are wetrying to solve and what
solutions do we have to it. Ifwe don't have the solutions
that's why we lean on theinsurance within and say, Hey,
this is a problem we're havinglocally, how can you help? Or
(42:08):
can you educate us more, maybewe're just missing something.
Right, the Ted lasso will becurious before we're judgmental,
so that we can understand theentirety of the problem. This
has been a looming problem sinceinsurance was created. Fixing it
overnight is not going to happeneither.
Ned Gaines (42:24):
It is going to be a long process. But I, you know, I
am hopeful that with workingtogether, we can, I mean we're
never going to keep wildfiresfrom happening, you know. And
that's not the goal, really,because it's an impossibility,
but I am hopeful, and do believewe can mitigate the consequences
(42:48):
of those wildfires. Main thingis, we don't want loss of life,
number one, and we don't wantloss of property.
Jenni Burr (43:15):
Be sure to check out our show notes for the great
tips that Ned shared. Theimpacts of wildfire and
associated risk will continue toimpact insurance into the
future, and we hope to haveCommissioner Ned Gaines as a
panelist at our upcoming 2026Fire Adapted Nevada summit at
the University of Nevada Renocampus in February. Our annual
(43:35):
Fire Adapted Nevada summitbrings together community
leaders and wildfire partnersfrom across Nevada for a two day
event dedicated to advancingwildfire resilience through
collaboration, innovation andaction. Find out more and
register at livingwithfire.org.
We hope to see you there.
(44:01):
Thank you for listening to theLiving With Fire podcast. You
can find more stories andresources about wildfire at our
website, livingwithfire.org. TheLiving With Fire program is
funded by the Bureau of LandManagement, the Nevada Division
of Forestry and the US ForestService, and we're managed by
the University of Nevada, Renoextension, an equal opportunity institution.
You could treat your home, but if your neighbor
(00:01):
doesn't treat their home, theirhome might catch yours on fire
no matter how well your propertyis treated.
Ned Gaines (00:07):
If you build in a high wildfire area, knowing it's
a high wildfire area, you know,there is the argument that you
should take on more of therisks.
Jenni Burr (00:17):
Are you releasing those mitigation efforts having
a significant impact onhomeowners insurance here in
Nevada, or is that somethingthat is still to be determined?
This is the living with firepodcast brought to you by the
(00:39):
living with Fire Program at theUniversity of Nevada, Reno
extension. Hi. Welcome back tothe Living With Fire podcast.
I'm your host, Jenni Burr,Outreach Coordinator for the
Living With Fire program. Inthis third installment of our
insurance dilemma series, Italked to Nevada Insurance
(01:00):
Commissioner Ned Gaines and Elkofire chief Matt Peterson, who
also serves as the Nevada FireChiefs Association rural
representative. We first talkabout what wildfire related
impacts they're seeing aroundthe state when it comes to
homeowners insurance, then weshift to finding out what fire
related insurance bills wereintroduced in the 2025 Nevada
legislature session, and we wrapup by hearing about what's ahead
(01:23):
for the future. I learned a lotfrom their insights, and hope
you enjoy the conversation asmuch as I did. Let's jump in.
(01:46):
All right, welcome back to theLiving With Fire podcast. We're
here today to talk about the2025, Nevada legislature bills
that relate to wildfire and howthese bills fared in the
legislative process. So can youeach please tell us your name,
your job, and a little about howyour job intersects with
insurance and wildfires.
Matt Peterson (02:06):
So my name is Matt Peterson. I'm the Elko
County Fire Chief. I've been infire for over 20 years of
federal experience, volunteerexperience and career experience
now, and I'm currently now withElko County Fire. I'm also the
rural representative for Nevadafire chiefs. So pretty much
everything outside of Carson andVegas, I help represent some of
the smaller departments andcommunities to Nevada fire
(02:29):
chiefs, and Nevada fire chiefshas taken a bigger role trying
to know just assist withinsurance, defensible space,
kind of anything related to fireand people's homes, people
default to us as trying to bethe experts. So we have to learn
the insurance industry, learnhow the power company functions.
(02:49):
So we become jack of all tradesand try to be masters of them.
But we are not experts in thatpiece yet.
Jenni Burr (02:56):
And Ned, why don't you go ahead and introduce
yourself.
Ned Gaines (02:59):
My name is Ned Gaines. I am the Commissioner of
Insurance with the NevadaDivision of Insurance. We are
tasked with regulating theinsurance industry in the state.
We are the chief insuranceregulator. We have two primary
missions. It's to protect theconsumer in their dealings with
the insurance industry, and alsomaintaining insurance solvency
(03:23):
for the companies that aredomiciled in Nevada. We are
involved with wildfire because,you know, as part of our mission
to protect consumers, we knowpeople are being non renewed,
and so we are involved in tryingto help people do what they need
to do in terms of mitigation, tolessen the chance that they will
(03:47):
be non renewed, also to findsome alternatives and to afford
coverage so people maintainprotection on their home.
Jenni Burr (03:58):
Great. So before we jump into the bills themselves,
how are each of you seeingwildfire impacting Nevadans and
their ability to get homeownersor renters insurance?
Ned Gaines (04:10):
So we are seeing an impact on consumers in two
different ways. One is consumerswho live in wildfire prone
areas, especially in the RenoTahoe area, because that is the
one part of the state that ismost heavily wooded. So the
wildfire risk is highest there.
They are starting to see nonrenewals based on where they're
(04:35):
located, and you know, theincreased risk of a wildfire
threat. Also, the entirety ofthe state, they are seeing some
increases in their overallpremiums due to the increased
wildfire risk, even thoughwildfire is limited to certain
areas of the state. When acompany is doing their rating
(05:00):
program, it is based on the riskacross the entire state. It's
not individualized by section.
So if there is an overallincrease in a wildfire risk in a
larger area, such as Reno Tahoe,people who live in, say, Elko
(05:22):
Winnemucca, Las Vegas, they arestill going to see a rise in
their premiums as the insurersare trying to price and reserve
for that potential wildfireevent.
Jenni Burr (05:35):
And Ned, does that also like impact between states?
So as other states are seeingincreased wildfire risk, does
that mean that Nevada could alsobe seeing increases in the cost
of coverage based on, you know,what's happening in California
or Colorado?
Ned Gaines (05:51):
No. Insurance rating is based on the state. So if a
company, all companies arerequired to file their
homeowners rates with my office.
I have an actuarial team thatreviews those and if a company
tried to include losses fromanother state or an increased
(06:12):
risk in another state, we wouldnot allow them to include that
in their rating filing, becauseit does have to be specific to
Nevada.
Jenni Burr (06:24):
Good to know, thanks. And Matt, what are you
seeing across the state when itcomes to what people are telling
you about their coverage?
Matt Peterson (06:33):
So right now, I think the process for us looks
like when a homeowner is gettinga letter from their insurance
company saying, "Hey, we'redropping you due to wildfire
risk". Normally, their firstprobably reaction is panic, and
then their second phone call isus with the panic attached and
how, "hey, I'm getting myinsurance dropped. I can't
(06:53):
maintain it". A lot of times,we'll go out, we'll get their
address, we'll talk to them,we'll go out and do an
inspection, take some photos,and we'll write a report that
kind of says, or just a documentthat says: this is what our
response is to this area. Theseare fuels, projects and
mitigation that we've also donein that area. We see some
(07:15):
success with that, not as muchas we'd like, as much effort as
we put into it, but a lot ofcompanies don't understand the
front end of what districts aredoing, what communities are
doing, and the insurancecompanies are taking that into
full effect. They're, they'rebecoming more and more aware.
And something that we'vediscovered over the last, I'd
say, 12 to 24 months, isreinsurers have no idea about
(07:41):
fuels mitigation. We've donepresentations to large groups of
reinsurers nationwide that thisis fuels mitigation. We've shown
them pictures, we brought themto projects, and the immediate
reaction we get is we had noidea this occurred. We didn't
know this was a real thing. Wethought this was a conceptual
thing that people just talkedabout. So we do see the panic
(08:04):
and the success. We have notencountered anyone that we know,
and this is just my world, sothis isn't a blanket statement
that hasn't been able tomaintain their insurance or get
new insurance from a newcompany. We've seen some spikes
from folks and gotten reports,but no one's been dropped and
(08:25):
not been able to get anythingthat we we know of
Jenni Burr (08:29):
That's good. Matt, what led the Nevada Fire Chiefs
Association to get involved ininsurance issues?
Matt Peterson (08:37):
So right, our risk mitigation and our risk
reduction in communities is ourlargest driver of it. Like I
said, the first thing they getis panic at home, and then their
second phone call is panic tothe fire districts and fire
chiefs. So we're we become thedefault fixer, and so I think
that that was our big driver forthis. And right that, it does
(08:59):
impact our economies locally.
It's going to impact the state.
It's going to impact mortgages,it's going to impact safety, all
sorts of things. And so it's,it's not something we want to
own, but we definitely want tobe able to influence it in a
positive way.
Ned Gaines (09:15):
So that, Matthew, when you're getting those phone
calls, you know, I would ask,you know, refer them to my
office as well. I have aconsumer services department,
and that is their job. We can goto bat for them. We're not
always successful, but we canpresent the data, any
(09:36):
information that the consumerhas about litigation efforts
that they've taken and then workwith the company to see if there
is a way we can keep theirinsurance coverage in place.
Jenni Burr (09:49):
That's great.
Matt Peterson (09:50):
Yeah, that's That's great. That's a great bit
of information, and we can sharethat back through Nevada chiefs.
I think, for me, and notholistically, I'll keep throwing
that default statement out. Thenumber one call is panic. The
number two is to us with panic,if we can share that stress with
other people that helps out a ton.
Ned Gaines (10:09):
Part of our job is to advocate for the consumer, so
we're happy to take those calls.
Jenni Burr (10:14):
So the Nevada Fire Chiefs Association worked with
Assembly Member Dickman onassembly bill 437, what was
proposed in that bill, Matt?
Matt Peterson (10:24):
So what we were trying to do is create, it's,
it's like a fair act, which ispretty similar to other states.
In fact, there's 38 other statesthat have fair plans in the it's
an insurance of last resort, iswhat we were looking at trying
to help with. So if peoplecouldn't get reasonably priced
insurance within a certainrange, or couldn't get insurance
(10:47):
that there was an avenue. Ourintent was never that, that they
stayed on that insuranceforever. We definitely don't
want to reference when peoplereference a fair act or fair
plan, the number one topic whenyou Google, it is California,
and it's now, I think, the fifthor so largest insurance carrier
in the state of California. Wedefinitely do not want to become
(11:10):
that. We don't want to be acompetitor with private
industry. It is an insurance oflast resort, and we don't expect
people to stay on it. We expectthem now, hey, you're on a fair
plan. You need to mitigate yourproperty and then continue to
work with private industry andprivate insurance to get off of
this state fair plan.
Jenni Burr (11:31):
The purpose of the plans, then is basically to
insure them over that process ofmitigation and trying to find
somebody who will cover them, isthat right?
Matt Peterson (11:41):
Yeah, we did, we did a lot of capital days where
we went down and did a lot ofeducation with our elected
officials. When it came out ofthe assembly, it was very well
educated. When it went into theSenate, it died dramatically due
to bad information that wasbeing spread around. And it's, I
don't think it's ideal by anymeans. But, like I said, it's an
(12:05):
insurance of last resort, wasour targeting point.
Jenni Burr (12:09):
And what if anything, did the committee
agree on with that, even thoughit died once it hit the Senate.
Was there, were there any piecesthat the Senate did agree on?
Matt Peterson (12:21):
I wasn't involved with the Senate piece as much as
I was with the assembly piece.
So I can't, I can't speak tothat in in very much detail, as
we've spoken in the assembly,there were some concerns, and we
kind of talked through those,and said there's got to be some,
some good sideboards painted onthis so that it has not become
the largest insurer in Nevada.
(12:42):
And really, Ned could probablyspeak more of this, right
through my education process onthe in the previous Insurance
Commissioner, Nevada is ahealthy state for insurance,
right? I think some of theseimpacts are from Nationwide
impacts and insurance companieswanting to minimize their risk,
which, as private industryshould. Right, we're just trying
(13:04):
to make sure that homeownersstill have the ability, if
something catastrophic happens,that they're not up the creek
without a paddle.
Jenni Burr (13:12):
Definitely.
The Nevada Fire ChiefsAssociation is a nonprofit
organization that seeks to helpmember fire chiefs and fire
personnel at all levels to bethe best they can be. The
association also has wildfirerisk reduction program grants
(13:32):
available to create defensiblespace and reduce wildfire risk.
Find out more at NVFIRECHF.ORGAll right, so let's switch
gears. So Assembly Bill 376 wasanother bill introduced this
2025 session, by Assembly MemberPK O'Neill, and it passed. Ned,
(13:54):
could you give us an overview ofwhat that bill aimed to achieve,
or aims to achieve?
Ned Gaines (14:03):
Yes, so it was designed to address the growing
difficulty that some Nevadansare seeing in obtaining
homeowner insurance. As Matthewsaid, we do have a healthy
market. Yes, some people arebeing non renewed by their
current insurer, but what we arehearing from our end, they are
(14:27):
able to obtain coverage withanother insurer. We are not
hearing of anybody that iscompletely unable to find
insurance. So we still havecarriers that are willing to
write in these high wildfirerisk areas, however, you know,
it is an ongoing problem. We,you know, it's a matter of when
(14:51):
is the next wildfire and whereis it going to be. So this bill
was designed to try to get aheadof that address. It gives some
flexibility to the insurers tobe a bit innovative. So it does
a number of things. One of thefirst things it does is it does
(15:13):
allow for insurers to carve outwildfire coverage on a
homeowner's policy.
Jenni Burr (15:19):
Meaning that it could be excluded or eliminated?
Ned Gaines (15:23):
It could be excluded or eliminated. So they could
offer, if you offered ahomeowner's policy, it had to
cover fire, which included firefrom any source. With the
passage of this bill, it willstill cover all other types of
fire, but they could say we'regoing to exclude any fire that
(15:46):
is due to wildfire. There is acaveat to that, carriers can't
just drop that coverage. Theymust file with my office to
receive approval to do so. Todate, no carrier has done that.
I know there's been somemessages in the news that come
January 1, wildfire coveragepotentially will be dropped. As
(16:10):
of right now, nobody is losingtheir wildfire coverage as of
January what. In myconversations in the industry,
that's not something that any ofthem are looking to do at this time,
Jenni Burr (16:25):
And if they choose to do that, so if you're a
homeowner with an existingpolicy, will insurance companies
be required to disclose if theyare dropping that wildfire coverage?
Ned Gaines (16:35):
Yes.
Jenni Burr (16:36):
Okay.
Ned Gaines (16:37):
Yes. We are work, currently working on a
regulation to address thedisclosure requirements. That's
something that will be comingsoon. But the idea behind
allowing them to carve out thewildfire, if that's the sole
reason for being non renewed, wewanted the consumer to maintain
(16:58):
their coverage for everythingelse, because there's, you know,
wildfire is not the only perilthat a homeowner's policy
covers. You don't want them tolose their entire policy, where
they would lose if theirdishwasher malfunctions and
floods home, if they have agrease fire that starts in the
(17:21):
kitchen, you don't want them tolose coverage for that. You
know, if their dog bitessomebody, you don't want them to
lose their liability coverage.
So that was the idea behindlimiting it to just the wildfire
exclusion.
Jenni Burr (17:38):
And so question about that. So most mortgages
require homeowners to havewildfire coverage as part of
their insurance policy. So ifcompanies are allowed to exclude
it and somebody can't getcoverage for wildfire, then
what's the Division of Insuranceable to do to protect homeowners
from losing that coverage orbeing priced out by this
(18:02):
coverage that is required bytheir mortgage lenders?
Ned Gaines (18:07):
That is the second thing the bill does is it
creates a regulatory sandbox togive carriers the opportunity to
be innovative. I have been incontact with carriers that are
interested in participating inthe regulatory sandbox. One of
the ideas that could bepresented, nobody's filed
(18:30):
anything yet, but one of theideas that has been floated is
possibly doing a wildfiredeductible, a separate
deductible. It's very common forhomeowner policies to have a
separate wind and haildeductible, especially on those
states that are have a very highhail risk. Very common for their
(18:54):
they'll have their standarddeductible for every other
peril. But if any damage iscaught by wind or hail, their
deductible is slightly higher,and it's so they're taking on
more of the risk. That'ssomething that has been floated.
It could be earthquake is alsoanother example. Typically, when
(19:15):
you have an earthquake policy,your deductible is much higher
than it would be under astandard homeowners, it could be
upwards of 25%
Jenni Burr (19:24):
And with that, then, when insurance companies are
thinking about pricing that, howdoes risk play into that?
Because, you know, say you areup on along the Sierra front in
the more wooded areas, asopposed to, you know, in Elko,
and you're in more of a brushyarea, will the prices
(19:45):
potentially be like at thatstate level, where everybody is
just going to have to pay more,or is there some avenue for
having it tied more to like riskin your particular area?
Ned Gaines (19:59):
If they were, for an example, if a company decides
they are going to pull out thewildfire peril, that is, you
know, a major component of theoverall premium that would have
to adjust down. So it wouldbring down the price. If they
implement a wildfire deductible,generally, companies will offer
(20:21):
it at different levels, soconsumers get to pick how much
risk they're willing to take on,the more risk they're willing to
take on, the lower theirpremium. This could give a lot
more power to the consumer toreally make that judgment call
of how much risk can I take on.
When you live in a high wildfirearea, build an high wildfire
(20:45):
area knowing it's a highwildfire area, you know there is
the argument that you shouldtake on more of the risk,
because that is a choice thatyou are making to do so, one
that you are entitled to make,but there are consequences that
come with it.
Jenni Burr (21:06):
Matt, question for you about that, how well do you
think your average homeownerthat you're working with is at
kind of understanding their riskwhen it comes to wildfire? Like
do you think they would be ableto choose a policy that
accurately reflects their risk?
Matt Peterson (21:25):
No. It's not a problem until people are aware
of the problem. And that's just,right, that's with anything you
know your auto maintenance kindof same thing. You don't know
that you have a problem withyour engine until it's already a
problem, and then you have tolearn about the problem. And so
I think homeowners are it's nota problem until the insurance
(21:47):
industry says, Hey, you have aproblem that's currently
occurring. And going backtalking about that sandbox, I
think those are phenomenaloptions. Each insurance company
has a different map or differentproduct that they have
contracted with or utilized fromanother company that showed the
risk in that area. The state hasanother threat map. The
(22:08):
challenge with those is, where'sthe data come from? How are they
implemented? What map are theyusing? What different product? I
believe, Utah just came out withsomething this morning that said
on January 1, they're requiredto use the singular map at the
state for the top 5% of homerisk, right? So it's not an
insurance company with theirproprietary product that they
(22:31):
don't want to share saying,well, we've determined this
risk. It's the state saying,here's the consolidated data
from different sources that isnow recognized, and that's the
source they should use. I wouldlove to see the insurance office
and the insurance industry workwith NDF to one update those
maps so we have good currentdata and that, as well as work
(22:53):
with folks on the ground tovalidate data and then use that
singular map to say, here'swhere the risk really is, you
don't get to just arbitrarilydetermine where the risk is.
Jenni Burr (23:04):
And Matt, when you're talking about that, are
you also thinking about, likepulling it down to the actual
homeowners level, where then youcould incorporate things like
mitigation efforts?
Matt Peterson (23:16):
So I think homeowner individual properties
is wildly important, but I thinkthe community assessment is just
as important. We look at thosecatastrophic fires and LA, we
look at Colorado a couple yearsago, right around New Year's and
Christmas, those were entirecommunity losses. So when we're
dealing with those communityloss, and I think that
(23:37):
demonstrates holistically thatit has to be addressed at a
community level and at a largeimpact level. You could treat
your home, but if your neighbordoesn't treat their home, their
home might catch yours on fireno matter how well your property
is treated. A lot of our fuelsgoals, when we start
implementing fuels projects andcommunity. Our number one effort
(23:59):
is, can we get to your communityand through your community? So
if a fire is approaching. Thenwe look at treating around the
community, and then we treatindividual properties within the
community. So those are ourthree our three goals at Elko
County, where right we have toget to the fire, so whether it's
in your community or at the backof your community, so to and
(24:22):
through. And then is thereprotections around your
community, and so that's thatgreen strip that we're talking
about around, so, roadsidetreatments, then around your
community, then we'll come backand say, let's start working on
individual properties, becauseif we can protect it from an
external threat. That's right,that's normally where big fires
(24:43):
chew up a bunch of homes. Andthen the third one, right? And
these are all pretty rapidlysucceeding, right, I say them
that way, but it takes years tocomplete these projects. If your
neighbor's property catches onfire is yours protected. So
those are, those are kind of ourthree goals.
Jenni Burr (25:05):
During a wildfire, firefighters have a lot to do.
Make it easier for firefightersto defend your home by creating
defensible space now. Defensiblespace is the area between a
house and an oncoming wildfire,where the vegetation has been
managed to reduce the wildfirethreat. Proper defensible space
doesn't mean removing allvegetation, though. By following
(25:27):
the lean, clean and green rule,you can keep your property safe
while preserving its naturalbeauty. Check out our defensible
space guide to learn more. Youcan find the guide in the
resources section of our websiteat livingwithfire.org.
Ned Gaines (25:48):
One thing I wanted to touch on that, you know,
Matthew said earlier is, yourquestion that's kind of started
it all, about how, how much doesthe average consumer know about
their overall risk? And onething we we highly recommend
when you're looking forinsurance, go to an agent, go to
(26:10):
a licensed agent that is able toexplain how your coverage works.
Some of the mitigation that youmay need to take. And you know,
I understand it, it's very easysometimes to go with the
cheapest option when it comes toinsurance, especially when
you're on a budget. A lot oftimes those options are the
(26:33):
direct buy, where you just goonline and you purchase a
policy. The problem with that isyou have to do a lot of your own
research to understand what itis you're buying, because you're
not going to have anybody therehelping you. Very important, go
to an agent. If you havequestions about that agent, you
(26:57):
can contact my office, we cantell you whether or not that
person is licensed in Nevada.
You definitely want somebodylicensed in Nevada. You don't
want somebody that's onlylicensed in Texas. They know
nothing about the Nevada market.
So again, and they what they cando, because then you may have
(27:19):
coverage, but another thing youhave to worry about is, do you
have enough coverage. If yourhouse was to burn completely
down, have you purchased enoughcoverage to rebuild it back to
the way it was? And a good agentis going to take the time to go
through with you all of thefeatures of your home. That's
(27:43):
another thing for consumers todo. Document what you have in
your home. Document yourbelongings so that you make sure
that you get enough coverage toreplace your belongings.
Document how your home is built?
Do you have expensive tile, oris it linoleum? You know, all of
that has an impact on how muchit's going to cost to replace
(28:06):
your home, and the more researchand the more documentation you
do, if you do suffer a totalloss, the better off you're
going to be, and the claimsprocess is going to go much
smoother for you.
Jenni Burr (28:23):
That's a really good tip. So a lot of our outreach
efforts are centered aroundwildfire preparedness, and we
educate people about, you know,how defensible space and home
hardening reduce the risk ofwildfire. And we, you know,
often get that question fromhomeowners, if completing these
mitigations are going to lowertheir insurance rates or their
(28:44):
ability to get insurance. We'vetouched on it a little bit, but
for either of you, you know, areyou really seeing those
mitigation efforts having asignificant impact on homeowners
insurance here in Nevada, or isthat something that is still to
be determined on how, how thatrolls out?
Ned Gaines (29:03):
From our perspective, there are insurers
who have filed for discounts formitigation. Something Matthew
touched on, though, is thatgenerally, those discounts will
only apply if you live in acommunity where the entire
community has taken thosemitigation efforts. The fire
(29:25):
wise community is one of them.
If the entire community hasmitigated and they have reached
the level to where they are firewise certified, there are
multiple carriers that will giveyou a discount for that. But the
case where, I did mitigationthat I lived in a bigger
neighborhood, but none of myneighbors did anything. No,
(29:49):
you're not going to see adiscount for that, because while
you've done what needs to bedone, your risk didn't really go
down because your neighbors havenot done anything.
Jenni Burr (30:05):
Right, I think about that, like in my own
neighborhood, it's aneighborhood established in the
60s, so it has some very largetrees, some of which are like
big, like sequoias. And I lookat those, and I think they are
gorgeous. And I also look andthink, wow, if that starts on
fire, that's a whole Ember stormheaded toward my house that it
(30:26):
really illustrates for me thatimportance of like, yeah,
thinking about that, no matterwhat I do to my yard, if there's
these other pieces around me, orother homes around me that have
things that increase my risk,then I'm still going to do those
things in my yard, but my riskis still pretty high, and I'm
not sure that people think aboutthat very much.
Ned Gaines (30:48):
Right. And fire wise, is is a start. It is a
good program. What we reallyneed to move towards, though,
are the Institute of businessand home safety standards or
IBHS, that is the true firehardening to where, if you get
(31:08):
the whole community in, yourcommunity can become the buffer
keeps the fire from extending further.
Jenni Burr (31:18):
Right. And I think I read that the IBHS program is
now going to be occurring herein the state, is that true?
Because I think it started outin California and was in one or
two more states, but is it nowgoing to be implemented here in Nevada?
Ned Gaines (31:36):
I have heard that.
Now, I don't have a lot ofdetails, I know in California,
they recently completed thefirst fully IBHS compliant community.
Jenni Burr (31:51):
Wow, that's great.
Ned Gaines (31:53):
So everything is built to those standards. And
surprisingly, you know what getscalled out a lot when it comes
to mitigation, is the cost. Anda lot of builders have been
somewhat resistant to wanting toimplement those standards,
because they say it's going toincrease the cost of the home
(32:14):
too much. When everything wasdone in California, in this one
community, on average, it onlyincreased the cost by about $3,000.
Jenni Burr (32:25):
Wow, that's phenomenal. That seems like a
very small amount of youroverall home cost.
Ned Gaines (32:31):
Especially when you're talking about a home in California.
Jenni Burr (32:33):
Right, yeah I mean, so much more, right.
Ned Gaines (32:37):
So mitigation, and it's worth it,
Jenni Burr (32:39):
Right.
Ned Gaines (32:41):
But you know, of course, you have some people
that can $3,000 it's not a lotof money, but for other people,
$3,000 is a significant amount.
So, you know, you still have to,you know, find that happy medium
of you know, what is workable.
Also, if you have an establishedcommunity, bringing that whole
(33:02):
community up to IBHS standards.
You know, it takes a lot more work.
Jenni Burr (33:07):
Yeah, that was going to be my next question is, you
know, when you're talking aboutretrofitting homes, it's a
pretty expensive endeavor to belooking at. Do you see any
possibility that insurancecompanies would, or the state
would create a pool of moneyavailable to do those
mitigations? You know, maybe,like, some kind of a loan that
(33:30):
you can get to do the mitigationand then you pay it back, but
just something to kind ofjumpstart people's ability to do
those retrofits?
Ned Gaines (33:40):
It is a possibility.
I I myself, I'm not apolicymaker. I can make
suggestions, but, you know,that's a possibility. There are
a number of grants that areavailable through various
organizations that could helpwith that as well. You know,
it's, this is a focus for mydepartment, or my division.
(34:03):
Rather, this year is to reallystart looking at what are some
options that we have as a state,you know, in partnership with
the insurance industry to answersome of these questions and to
find a path forward. So we willbe heavily focusing on, you
(34:24):
know, the wildfire issue this year.
Jenni Burr (34:30):
Well, we'll stay tuned for more outcomes from that.
The impacts of wildfires oninsurance coverage are
increasingly on people's minds.
To find out more about thistopic, be sure to listen to our
previous podcast episode. Theinsurance dilemma part one,
wildfire risk and its impact oninsurance affordability in
Nevada, explores how wildfirerisk is affecting insurance
(34:52):
affordability and availabilityin Nevada. The insurance dilemma
part two, defining risk,explores different perspectives
on wildfire risk. Check back inthe future for more episodes
related to how wildfire isimpacting insurance.
(35:14):
So in doing some research, Iread that Colorado legislatures
passed House Bill. 25-1182,which required insurance
carriers to consider mitigationefforts at property, community
and state levels when assessingrisk and setting premiums. It
also requires insurancecompanies to share what
(35:34):
discounts are available formitigation and to allow
homeowners to see their wildfirerisk score and appeal if they
think it's inaccurate. Matt, areany similar ideas being
discussed by the Nevada FireChiefs Association for future
legislation efforts?
Matt Peterson (35:52):
We've had very casual conversations about it
because I think Colorado, Utah,are pointing their folks back to
their risk rating and a singulardata source. It's so hard for us
right now to pin what datasource they're using to say this
is a higher risk. And so we'vetalked about it, but we've
identified the problem, we havenot identified a solution yet.
(36:14):
But going back to your your lastconversation, I would love a pot
of money, either, some way to dothese inspections, to do the on
ground, on the ground,validation and the treatments. I
don't want to spook the herdwhen I say this, but I see the
insurance industry, and themortgage industry, and home
sales and everything else is ait's a bright light out there
(36:37):
that I don't know if it's arocket coming towards me or the
sun, right? It's two things thatcould change how the United
States functions, and not just aNevada problem. I think that the
insurance commissioner has donea phenomenal job of trying to be
engaged and working throughthese challenges with us. Those
pots of money is in mitigation,right? I live in a neighborhood
(37:00):
that was built. My house wasbuilt in 66 I have the same
exact issue as they Yeah, yeah.
I have the same exact issue youdo. And it's just, it's a, it's
a looming like, hey, how doesthis get mitigated?
Jenni Burr (37:12):
Yeah.
Matt Peterson (37:14):
And so those risk areas, I know there's a Southern
California University, and Ican't remember which one at this
point. We have fuel modelsacross the United States, from
everything from Southern roughto timber, right? That includes
Alaska, Tundra, everythingthere's, there's a ton of them.
They're evaluating creatinganother fuel model that is just
home to home ignitions, likethose conflagrations that you
(37:36):
were talking about. So I don'tknow how to rank those. Right?
I've done a good job of being apolitician in the sentence of
talking in a circle. I don'tknow how to rank those without a
singular set of data that we'reall looking at.
Ned Gaines (37:49):
And that's something you know we're looking at is
trying to find that singularpoint of data. There are a lot
of other entities out there thatare doing this work, and, you
know, getting them kind of cometogether, there's going to be a
focus, you know, there's acompany that's doing some doing
(38:13):
mapping that they're usingLiDAR, so their mapping is much
more accurate than, say, use ofa drone or just satellite
imagery. It's the LiDAR. Theycan actually tell you what
species of tree it is that theLiDAR is picking up, and they
can tell you whether it'shealthy or not. It's really
(38:37):
phenomenal detail they can get.
Bringing all these people to thetable is going to be key.
Jenni Burr (38:45):
And when or if, I guess, we get to a point where
we have that data set that is ata state level, ss that something
that will be shared out with,say, you know, fire departments,
so they can also use it whenthey're looking at their own,
you know, mitigation planningand fire planning, would that be
(39:08):
the goal?
Ned Gaines (39:09):
I you know, from my perspective, fire chiefs should
be, you know, part of theconversation. I will let Matthew
hear how far down, you know,they would want to bend that.
Matt Peterson (39:21):
So I'll give you some more information, then I'll
come back to that. So Westernfire chiefs is also working on
this challenge with using theIBHS standards in Nevada, as
well as mapping andconsolidating all the data
sources. So we are working onthat timeline currently is a, I
won't say a large question mark,but a medium one, I have a
(39:42):
personal tangent that I'll giveyou about maps, like, if another
company comes to me with amapping product to show me how
high the fire risk is, I'llprobably lose my mind.
Jenni Burr (39:52):
Right.
Matt Peterson (39:53):
Because we've spent more money on technology
to identify the problem that'sbeen identified for the last 50
to 100 years. I would rathertake that funding and start
doing treatments and recordingit into existing systems so we
don't have another map thatshows red is bad. I want to be
able to change the color on themap. Every time I go to a
(40:15):
conference, if you walk aroundthe conference, there's, I will
say, 50% of the booths there aretechnology that is just changing
you from one technology toanother, or a mapping program
that shows you, hey, I can showyou that your red area is still
red. And I'm like, Thanks.
That's great. I can do thatwithout a map. I think that the
technology of, let's consolidatewhat we have instead of creating
(40:38):
a new system, or showing me anew red map, and then working
toward that. And I don't thinkthat that data is a bad thing to
share, but it needs to be gooddata to share, not data from
Company A, B and C that'sselling you their product, to
show red is bad or somethingelse. It needs to be actual,
measurable data to make achange, is what I will keep saying.
Jenni Burr (41:03):
Yeah.
Matt Peterson (41:03):
Don't show me a map without giving me your money
to fix it. We've identified theproblem already.
Jenni Burr (41:08):
Yeah, that makes sense. All right. Is there any
questions you have for eachother?
Matt Peterson (41:15):
No, I've learned a lot about how the Insurance
Commission, office or divisioncan help fire chiefs. We've been
working with them for quite awhile. They had a change of
commissioners recently, so kindof let him get his feet on the
ground, even though it's, I hopeyou were running when you hit
it. It's a lot of work to catchup on.
Jenni Burr (41:35):
Anything you want to say that you want to have make
it into the podcast, or anythingyou want to revisit that you are
thinking, oh, I wish I had saidsomething or added something?
Matt Peterson (41:45):
I will say, so. I think we've identified the
problems, and our three Nevadafire chiefs, we're trying to
find as many solutions as wepossibly can. Like I will keep
saying, what problem are wetrying to solve and what
solutions do we have to it. Ifwe don't have the solutions
that's why we lean on theinsurance within and say, Hey,
this is a problem we're havinglocally, how can you help? Or
(42:08):
can you educate us more, maybewe're just missing something.
Right, the Ted lasso will becurious before we're judgmental,
so that we can understand theentirety of the problem. This
has been a looming problem sinceinsurance was created. Fixing it
overnight is not going to happeneither.
Ned Gaines (42:24):
It is going to be a long process. But I, you know, I
am hopeful that with workingtogether, we can, I mean we're
never going to keep wildfiresfrom happening, you know. And
that's not the goal, really,because it's an impossibility,
but I am hopeful, and do believewe can mitigate the consequences
(42:48):
of those wildfires. Main thingis, we don't want loss of life,
number one, and we don't wantloss of property.
Jenni Burr (43:15):
Be sure to check out our show notes for the great
tips that Ned shared. Theimpacts of wildfire and
associated risk will continue toimpact insurance into the
future, and we hope to haveCommissioner Ned Gaines as a
panelist at our upcoming 2026Fire Adapted Nevada summit at
the University of Nevada Renocampus in February. Our annual
(43:35):
Fire Adapted Nevada summitbrings together community
leaders and wildfire partnersfrom across Nevada for a two day
event dedicated to advancingwildfire resilience through
collaboration, innovation andaction. Find out more and
register at livingwithfire.org.
We hope to see you there.
(44:01):
Thank you for listening to theLiving With Fire podcast. You
can find more stories andresources about wildfire at our
website, livingwithfire.org. TheLiving With Fire program is
funded by the Bureau of LandManagement, the Nevada Division
of Forestry and the US ForestService, and we're managed by
the University of Nevada, Renoextension, an equal opportunity institution.
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