October 30, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode, learn more about the fire science academy at the Academy of Arts, Career and Technology (AACT) in Washoe County. Living With Fire’s Jenni Burr sits down with Spencer Eusden (Living With Fire Special Projects Coordinator), AACT students Lucy and Luca, and former lead instructor Jen Diamond (BLM Mitigation Education Specialist) to hear more about this high school program.
For more full episode details including the transcript, visit
https://www.buzzsprout.com/1819551/episodes/18108363
Spencer gives an overview of the creation of the fire science workforce development program in partnership with Bureau of Land Management and Truckee Meadows Fire Protection.
Lucy and Luca then talk about their experience as students in the fire science program. Lucy shares “I definitely think even if you're in this academy and you don't want to be a firefighter, it'll set you ahead for another career, because you learn so much about communication working as a team, because so much of the fire is working with someone like accomplishing a certain mission or communicating what you need to do.”
Finally, Jen Diamond joins and shares her perspective on the program and answers questions from Lucy and Luca about her career in wildland firefighting. Reflecting on the realities of the job, saying “I think the funnest part is having those away experiences. And the hardest part is also not being home and having those home experiences when you feel like you should be there.”
To learn more about the program’s partners visit:
· Bureau of Land Management: blm.gov/Nevada
· Truckee Meadows Fire Protection District: https://tmfpd.us/
· Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology: https://aact.washoeschools.net/programs/cte
· Living With Fire: www.livingwithfire.org
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Episode Transcript
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Spencer Eusden (00:00):
Workforce development is like a big part
(00:02):
of what kind of UNR has beendoing, and extension is doing,
because it's a great way oftaking some of the knowledge and
research that's coming out ofuniversities and helping apply
it into the public andcommunity, which is that classic
extension model.
Lucy (00:17):
I definitely think even if you're in this academy and you
don't want to be a firefighter,it'll set you ahead for another
career, because you learn somuch about communication working
as a team, because so much ofthe fire is working with someone
like accomplishing a certainmission or communicating what
you need to do. So even if youdon't want a job in fire, all of
those skills will help you somuch throughout life, even if
(00:38):
it's not in fire.
Jennifer Diamond (00:40):
And I feel like they're coming into this
way more experienced than anyother firefighter that comes in
on year one. They've alreadyhave three or four years under
their belt, and know all of theterminology, really, and the
tools and the equipment.
Jenni Burr (01:04):
This is the Living with Fire Podcast. Brought to
you by the Living with Fireprogram at the University of
Nevada, Reno Extension.
Hi. Welcome back. I'm your host.
Jenni Burr, Outreach Coordinatorfor the Living with Fire
program. In this episode, weexplore a part of the workforce
development that our programdoes. I talk with Living with
(01:26):
Fire Special ProjectsCoordinator Spencer Eusden about
the fire science program hedeveloped in conjunction with
the Bureau of Land Management,Truckee Meadows Fire and the
Washoe County School District.
This workforce developmentprogram is housed at the Academy
of Arts, Careers and Technology,or AACT, a high school in Reno
(01:46):
that gives students a chance totake specialized career and
technical classes alongsidetraditional academic subjects.
We talk with AACT students abouttheir experience in the fire
science program. Then we'rejoined by Jen Diamond, who
answers questions about thestudents and shares her
perspective on the fire scienceprogram, Jen is the state lead
for fire prevention, mitigationand education with the Bureau of
(02:09):
Land Management, and served asthe lead instructor for the
wildland firefighting portion ofthe fire science program the
past two years. And now let'shear the episode.
(02:34):
We're here today with SpencerEusden who works as a Special
Projects Coordinator with Livingwith Fire. So can you tell us a
little bit more about what youdo in conjunction with Washoe
County School District?
Spencer Eusden (02:46):
Yeah, thank you.
So one of the projects I've beenable to work over for the last
two and a half years now is theFire Science Career and
Technical Education Academy atthe Academy of Arts, Careers and
Technology. Here it's a publicschool in Washoe County School
District, and we have a reallyspecial high school academy
that's preparing a whole bunchof youth for careers in the fire
(03:08):
service. And so how this reallystarted was both Truckee Meadows
Fire and Rescue and the Bureauof Land Management here in the
greater Reno area have realizedthat workforce development is a
big issue, and they cametogether in partnership with
Living with Fire and the WashoeCounty School District to make
this academy happen. And thatstarted in the fall of 2023 and
(03:32):
how it worked for the first twoyears is that in the fall,
Truckee Meadows would provideinstruction for about structure
fire. And then in the spring,Bureau of Land Management would
provide instruction aboutwildland fire. And what's really
exciting right now is that forour first year, the program is
(03:53):
big enough that Washoe CountySchool District has hired a full
time teacher who's a retiredfirefighter to be the kind of
core instructor making thisprogram happen. And we still
have a bunch of support withguests from Truckee Meadows Fire
and Rescue and guests fromBureau of Land Management coming
in to make this program happen.
(04:13):
A couple cool things today isthat you're going to hear from
two of our students, who areboth juniors in this program,
kind of sharing what thisprogram is like and how it is
shaping how these two youngstudents are thinking about
potential future careers in thefire service as kind of a way of
showing you what's going on,this program and this approach
(04:35):
to workforce development.
Jenni Burr (04:37):
Is it also the case that UNR is really interested in
workforce development as well,or that extension is, is that?
Spencer Eusden (04:46):
Yeah, and so I think workforce development is
like a big part of what kind ofUNR has been doing, and
extension is doing because it'sa great way of taking some of
the knowledge and researchthat's coming out of
universities. And helping applyit into the public and
community, which is that classicextension model, and that's kind
(05:06):
of where here, like mybackground in education and work
with Living with Fire, has beenable to really help this program
do all the great things we do.
And my role in this program hasreally been to support our
firefighter instructors, whoknow a ton about firefighting,
but they've never taughtteenagers before, and so we kind
of use some of this, likeunderstanding of education, to
(05:29):
help make this program make firecareers more accessible to these
students, as they're teenagerstrying to understand what they
want to do in the world, andwhat opportunities are there in
the fire service.
Jenni Burr (06:00):
Today, we are with Luca and Lucy, who are students
at the Academy of Arts, Careersand Technology in Reno. So can
one of you start off and tell usa little bit about your school?
Luca (06:14):
So with our school, we have a ton of different programs
that we've just gotten a few newones, and we've had a few old
ones. The Academy that we're inright now is fire science. It
just recently started ourfreshman year. And so our
program's already grown quite abit.
Jenni Burr (06:33):
Tell us a little bit about the fire science program
here at AACT.
Lucy (06:37):
Yeah. So we have, like, structure half of the year, and
then a wildland half of the sofor structure, we have actual
like Truckee Meadowsfirefighters that come in and
help teach us things, whetherit's like about the trucks or
about ladders or ropes and likelifts and carries and stuff like
that. And then during thewildland section, actual BLM
people come in and they taughtus about different forms of
(06:59):
communication, how to dig lineand stuff like that.
Jenni Burr (07:03):
And if I remember correctly about these kind of
special academies to get in, youactually have to apply to the
programs, right? And so how didthat go for you? Like, how? How
did you decide that you wantedto kind of apply?
Luca (07:18):
So I found out about the school from my brother. And so
when I went to apply, I appliedfor three different academies,
EMR, arts and then fire science.
When they responded like saying,which academies I'm able to go
into, my only option wasfirefighting and art. I was
like, I'd rather dofirefighting.
Lucy (07:40):
So everyone like when they're applying, applies for
three academies. So I appliedfor engineering, culinary and
fire science. I got into allthree, but I applied wanting to
go into the fire scienceAcademy. So for me, it was an
easy choice.
Jenni Burr (08:00):
Are you an educator who would like to incorporate
wildfire lessons into yourclasses? The Living with Fire
wildfire science curriculum isdesigned to help youth
understand the role of wildfirein Nevada ecosystems and learn
how to reduce their household'swildfire risk. Find out more at
livingwithfire.org.
(08:25):
Now, so Lucy, can you tell us alittle bit about the fire
Lucy (08:29):
The fire science program is kind of split into like two
science program?
semesters, so like at school. Sothe first half we do is
structure fire, which is morelike houses, like the classic
firefighters you see with, like,the big red trucks and the
ladders and everything likethat. And the other half of the
school year is the wildlandside, where it's like, you learn
how to dig line and then, like,throw hoses and all kinds of
(08:50):
stuff like that.
Jenni Burr (08:51):
Nice. Luca, do you have anything to add to that?
Luca (08:54):
Um, so with both wildland and urban, it gives us really
great job opportunities for whenwe're older.
Jenni Burr (09:03):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. And just out of curiosity,as you're exploring both sides,
do you find yourself drawn toone more than the other? Or are
you pretty open to pursuingeither of them?
Luca (09:16):
I think pursuing both them would be my ideal. There's not
many stations that actuallyallow it, or like that are made
to be able to do both. But whatI'm going for is trying to
become a wildland and urbanfirefighter.
Jenni Burr (09:33):
Yeah, and Truckee Meadows Fire Protection
District, I think, has some ofthose kind of people, right?
Lucy (09:39):
Um definitely, I'm more interested in structure. I'm not
Yeah.
a big hiker, which is a mainpart of wildland, but both, like
you get such great opportunitieswith this program to learn about
both of them. So it's like, evenif you're less interested in,
like for me, wildland, you stilllearn so much about something
where even while doingstructures, things you learned
(09:59):
for wildland might. Come intoplay so.
Jenni Burr (10:01):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So let's start
with Luke. How did you becomeinterested in a fire related
career?
Luca (10:08):
Um, as a kid, I was always kind of like going through what
careers I'd want to be. So Iwent between like artist to
veterinarian to firefighting.
Um, the reason I got intofirefighting is because, where I
live, there's always a lot offires on the hills, and so I'd
love to, like, watch all thefire trucks and all that roll in
and take care of the fires. AndI just thought it was super
(10:32):
cool.
Jenni Burr (10:33):
Lucy, how about for you? How did you get interested
in fire?
Lucy (10:37):
Um, so, like, before I thought about ever being a
firefighter, I kind of alsowanted to be vet, but um, and
when I was, like, in like,elementary school age my
grandparents' house burned down.
And so like, my whole family andstuff like this, kind of had to
watch it burn down. And so,like, from then, it's kind of
like what I wanted to dobecause, like, the sitting there
watching is just like, you wantto do something, but you can't,
yeah. And so, like, it kind ofjust, like, spoke to my interest
(10:59):
in it.
Jenni Burr (11:00):
Yeah, that's definitely a compelling reason.
Yeah, and to want tomaybe help others to not have
Lucy (11:03):
Yeah.
that happen. So Lucy, what hashad the biggest impact on how
you view jobs in the fireservice?
Um, I mean, so for like,each side of fire, there's
different jobs you can do. Sofor like wildland, there's like
(11:23):
different jobs, like fireinvestigating in something
that's not really as big a thingin structure, at least, like now
that we've learned about yet, Iguarantee there is. But for both
sides, there's just different,like, different careers you
could have, like another part offire, which isn't like exactly
on it. But you can do dispatch,or you can do something like
that, which automatically wouldhelp fire in a different way
(11:44):
than being directly on it.
Jenni Burr (11:46):
Yeah, definitely, yeah. So kind of the careers
that are adjacent to.
Lucy (11:51):
Yeah
Jenni Burr (11:52):
Adjacent to fire itself.
Luca (11:54):
The biggest impact on how I view the job was when I went
to the AD camp and I got to seehow all the roles worked
together.
Jenni Burr (12:03):
So can you tell us what is the AD camp?
Luca (12:05):
Oh, um, so the AD camp is this camp crew where if you sign
up, you'll you'll be workingwith BLM, and you'll be put on a
list where you can get calledout nationally. Um, so when I
was on there. I got to go to theConnor Fire in Reno, and then I
also got to go to the TurnerGulch Fire in Colorado. You
(12:27):
could go anywhere. We almost gotcalled out to Alaska, actually.
Jenni Burr (12:32):
And so what was your experience when you were in the
camps?
Luca (12:35):
So at the camps, our boss, Dan, will get a group of 10
people, and we'll get sent outto the fires. And for two weeks,
we'll be working there. We'll besleeping in tents. And the main
jobs that we're going to bedoing there are working with
supply, handing them out to thefirefighters at their request.
We also work with the reefers,so we're handing out water,
(12:58):
Gatorade and ice, oh, and boxlunches. And then we also do a
lot of cleanup after thefirefighters. So we don't leave
the places messy or anything.
Jenni Burr (13:08):
Right because the camps, they just sort of build.
Luca (13:12):
Yeah.
Jenni Burr (13:12):
Like they're mostly kind of tents and not really,
truly buildings around, yeah, soI would guess there would be a
lot of cleanup to do. And, like,was it fun? Like, did you meet a
bunch of people?
Luca (13:24):
Yeah I've met a lot of people. When you go there,
you're gonna meet a bunch ofdifferent people who have all
these different kinds of skills.
And while you're there, you justmake really good friends with
them, and you kind of just teacheach other stuff. So while I was
at the Turner Gulch camp, I wastaught how to make arrowheads. I
learned how to play hacky sack.
(13:45):
There was one other I forgot.
Jenni Burr (13:47):
Nice. Sounds fun.
Yeah. So something that's alittle different here at AACT is
that you have actualprofessionals coming in and
teaching you some of the skills,right? So, how was it different
to have a firefighter or awildland firefighter, teaching
your class versus a kind ofstandard teacher.
Luca (14:07):
I think it was a lot more easier to learn the units
because we have actual peoplewith experience on the job. We
get to learn things firsthand,show see how it was from their
experience, rather than having ateacher just kind of babble on
about this and that withoutbeing able to see it in real
Lucy (14:29):
like they're students. But when actual people would come
life.
in, we'd kind of get treatedmore like we're adults, and like
we'd have, like, you have tobehave, like, in this like
world, it's just that you haveto do it's a serious job, and
(14:51):
you have to take it seriously.
And so, like, it was really niceto be treated kind of more like
we're trying to do something,and not just like we're at
school trying to, like, learnmath or something, like we're
learning something topotentially. Like to get a
career in which is, like,important and something that
takes seriously so.
Jenni Burr (15:04):
Yeah and does it help with some of those other
classes that are, like,mandatory, like, can you see
connections now, or not really,between, like, some of your
other classes and fire science?
Lucy (15:14):
I mean, maybe in chemistry a bit. But I do think having
this class that, like, we all,like, chose to have, along with
the classes that like your firstlike have to take, like, the
ones that like are needed. Itdefinitely makes the day easier,
because you have those classesthat, like, you're really
excited for, so like you'rewaiting to get to those. So
(15:34):
then, like, you can just get tothat today.
Jenni Burr (15:36):
And does it feel a little bit like you're taking a
step towards like, your future,instead of sort of like feeling
like you're treading water, andjust like putting in time to
check off that you like havegraduated.
Luca (15:49):
Um, I think with this class, it definitely helps us
move forward a lot faster thanwhat we'd be doing if we started
when we got out of high schoolor college. It gives us, like, a
really big head start. It'spreparing us for rookie school.
It's preparing us for thehardships, the fun, all that.
Jenni Burr (16:08):
And does it also kind of tell you some well it
sounds like it does, like, whereit gives you some different
options of pathways. And then,does the program actually help
you connect in with like, kindof that next step?
Lucy (16:20):
Yeah, I think so we learn a lot about, like, TMCC's, the
community college around here,their fire academy, which we
can, like, apply for after highschool, which is then, like, the
next step to be able to go to,like, work in a career in
structure fire. But I definitelythink even if you're in this
academy and you don't want to bea firefighter, it'll set you
(16:42):
ahead for another career,because you learn so much about
communication and working as ateam, because so much of the
fire is working with someone andgetting like accomplishing a
certain mission or communicatingwhat you need to do. So even if
you don't want to job in fire,all of those skills will help
you so much throughout life,even if it's not in fire.
Jenni Burr (17:05):
Partnerships are at the heart of the work we do at
Living with Fire, the firescience program at the Academy
of Arts, Careers and Technology,highlights how the work we do
with the Bureau of LandManagement and Truckee Meadows
Fire helps educate Nevadans andpromotes workforce development
to learn more about ourpartners, visit blm.gov/nevada
(17:27):
and tmfpd.usJoining us now is Jen Diamond
with the Bureau of LandManagement. Jen, can you please
share a little about your roleat BLM and how you got connected
with the fire science program.
Jennifer Diamond (17:44):
Yeah so my Fire Management Officer, who is
the Fire Management Officer forall of Nevada BLM. His name is
Brock Uhlig, had an idea aboutbringing a wildland fire academy
to high school, and so we workedclosely with AACT and partnered
with them, and worked withLiving with Fire to build a
(18:06):
curriculum and just slowlystarted bringing it to life. And
so I was the lead instructor forthe first two years. The second
year I had another instructorwith me because the classes grew
from one to three classes, I'msorry, from two to three
classes. And yeah. So I kind oftaught the curriculum that
(18:28):
Living with Fire Spencer Eusdenbuilt, and we just kind of kept
incorporating fun, hands onactivities and building off of
ideas, off of each other, almoston a daily basis.
Jenni Burr (18:41):
Yeah, so probably kind of grew organically through
Jennifer Diamond (18:42):
Yeah.
Jenni Burr (18:42):
Probably where you'd think you'd try something and
that first year, especially.
then expand on it, or decidethat wasn't.
Jennifer Diamond (18:51):
Yep.
Jenni Burr (18:52):
Gonna happened next time.
Jennifer Diamond (18:53):
Yeah.
Jenni Burr (18:54):
What's it like to work with the students in the
program?
Jennifer Diamond (18:57):
It was fun. I mean, I know I have kids that
are, well, now they're 17 and19, but when we started this
program, I believe they were 16and 18 or 15 and 17 and so,
yeah, I felt like I could, Icould relate to them a little
bit. And each kid has their ownpersonalities and strengths and
(19:18):
weaknesses, just like we do whenwe're working in fire or on a
crew, right? Like they havetheir own little personalities.
And you can see some of themtake on that leadership role
immediately, and some of them,you know, being more of creative
maybe, or maybe some of thembeing more physical or so it was
(19:40):
really cool to just kind of seethem, you know, utilize their
strengths there and build upontheir weaknesses, and then also
just seeing them grow so muchfrom year to year, like right
now, I just walked in the roomand saw Lucy, and I was like, Oh
my gosh, I haven't seen her in awhile. And was like, You matured
so much just watching themchange. Physically and mentally,
(20:02):
and it just made me think aboutfire in a different way that I
had never thought about before.
Because when I tried to kind ofrelate to, you know, a 14 to 17
year old brain, it definitelymade me think about things
differently, and they, you know,taught me stuff too, right? So I
think that it was a hugelearning experience for me
(20:24):
teaching kids, because I'vetaught fire classes before to
adults that are signed up forthis and are choosing this path
100% this is like, what they'regoing to be doing. And so that
was the experience I had withworking with students before
they were adults, and so workingwith 14 to 17 year olds
(20:45):
definitely made me think aboutthings differently. And you
know, just the maturity level,you know, isn't quite there yet.
And so just trying to make itrelatable and fun and engaging
was different.
Jenni Burr (21:03):
For sure.
Jennifer Diamond (21:04):
But you know, we're all students of fire. We
say that all of us, no matterhow many years of experience you
have, so this was part of thatfor me, still.
Jenni Burr (21:14):
Did that also change, like, how you interact
with some of the younger crewmembers that are coming on,
like, thinking about like those18, 19, year olds, where they're
not that far off of kind of theupper end of high school.
Jennifer Diamond (21:26):
A little bit like this year. So I run with a
complex incident managementteam. So those are the larger
incidents. And I am a sectionchief for public information
officers. And there was a coupleof younger you know, 22 24 year
olds. And I was like, Oh, myGod, I used to be one of them,
(21:47):
and now I'm old. Think aboutlike, how to communicate in a
understandable way, but, butyeah, I guess a little bit.
Jenni Burr (22:01):
And Jen, one last question for you before we turn
it over to the students. Whatadvice do you have for people
interested in getting jobs inwild on fire?
Jennifer Diamond (22:10):
Yeah, I think that there's everyone kind of
tends to think, oh, physical,physical. I need to work out and
you do like you need to trainpretty hard where you are, you
know, running, hiking, weighttraining, eating healthy, taking
care of yourself. I feel likethat's a huge part of this,
right? But I think that a lot ofthe times, people don't
(22:31):
recognize the mental aspect ofit. And I think that it's it's
pretty even there for me, right?
So of course, the physical partis going to keep you safe and
keep you, you know, able to keepup and do your job and be able
to cut line and, you know, carryheavy things. But the mental
part of it is you have to wantto kind of be part of a
(22:55):
community, right, and then alsobe away from home, like you
can't really train for that,right? So a lot of people, their
first or second roles out thererealize that, you know, you
don't have the comforts of home.
You know, I was just gone forprobably 50 something days this
(23:17):
summer, and, you know, there'sno running water.
Jenni Burr (23:21):
Yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (23:23):
You don't flush a toilet.
Jenni Burr (23:24):
Yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (23:25):
You don't have soft toilet paper. You don't
just open a refrigerator and getfood. You don't lay in your bed.
You don't have your dog. And soI think, you know, and that's
hard for I think, these studentsto understand, between the ages
of 14 and 17, you may not haveexperienced that, or know what
that would even be like to tomiss that. So I, I do feel like,
(23:48):
um, mentally, it's it's just asmuch of a challenge as as it is.
Physically. I do also think thatso for some advice is just the
crew cohesion that you get andthe camaraderie that you get is
you are in it all together, andit does feel like a great team
(24:09):
effort and like celebration insome ways, that you are making a
difference and that you aremaybe, you know, protecting your
community or somebody else's sojust being a part of that is is
a reward.
Jenni Burr (24:25):
Definitely.
84% of wildfires nationwide arecaused by people. If you're
planning on heading out andenjoying public lands, visit
nevadafireinfo.org and learn howyou can recreate responsibly and
do your part to preventwildfires.
(24:50):
All right, we're going to turnit over to Lucy and Luca to ask
Jen some questions that theyhave for her about wildland
firefighting.
Lucy (25:00):
So like, what originally made you want to be a wildlands
firefighter?
Jennifer Diamond (25:05):
I had no idea what I was getting myself into,
to be honest. So I was 18, Imoved to Tahoe, and I saw a
flyer that said, Do you likehiking and do you like camping?
And I was like, Yeah. And theywere like, take these classes,
and I wanted to be a firefighteras a little girl, but I only
(25:25):
knew the red trucks. I didn'tknow about wildland and so when
I saw, do you like hiking andcamping and then you want to be
a wildland firefighter? Waslike, okay, like, I really
didn't know, really what it waslike you guys get to learn for
three or four years in theirclassroom about all this stuff.
Like, I didn't know what I wasgetting into, but it sounded
cool, because I was like, Oh, Iget to travel too, and they'll
(25:47):
pay me all right. So I tookthose classes. I actually, I got
tonsillitis, and I took thoseclasses still, because I was,
like, my only shot, and I I hada Bronco, which I still have.
It's my son's now, but, myBronco broke down, and I had
tonsillitis, and I had to ridemy bike to these classes, and I
(26:08):
could barely breathe. I had afever, like it was so awful, and
like, sit through these classes.
And so back to the mental partof it, right? Like I was like, I
could do anything for a coupleweeks, right? So, yeah, I didn't
know what I was getting into,but it just sounded fun because
it was physical and I got totravel. And, yeah, wildland
firefighting was something Ireally didn't get to learn
(26:30):
about, like you guys are gettingto learn.
Luca (26:35):
What were the hardships that you had to go through while
achieving this job, and whatwere the fun part?
Jennifer Diamond (26:41):
Oh, boy. Well, so I started when I was 18, and
then I had my first son when Iwas 25 and so, you know, I had
just, I was a seasonal employeebefore I had my son, so I
couldn't work once I waspregnant, right? I didn't have
(27:03):
insurance and things like that,so I was in really good shape,
and used to being gone andworking and traveling and
working with I was on a fire usemodule. I was on engines, also
hand crews. Then I just had to,like, stop, right? I was
pregnant and I had two sons, andand then I ended up going back
(27:26):
to firefighting. And so it wasjust so different after that,
right? It was all about mebefore, like, oh, just be
physical, have fun, do all thesethings, and now I have two
babies, right? So I think myhardships were finding the
balance of still trying to, youknow, provide for myself and my
(27:49):
family the way that I was usedto doing before and physically,
I had lost some of my strengthsright after having kids. So I
think that that was different. Ithink that's not a lot of, you
know, men don't go through thatpart. So that was challenging
for me to just kind of try andget back in the game and in,
(28:10):
like, find the balance of beinga mother and and doing this,
this job, and still trying to,you know, find, like, a career
ladder for myself too to where Icould advance and not be
stagnant, you know, other thanthat, I feel like, again, I just
think, you know, there'schallenges of being away from
home, right? So that's myhardship, and that's part of, I
(28:34):
think, my challenge there. Andthen what was it? It was my
hardships.
Luca (28:39):
And fun parts.
Jennifer Diamond (28:41):
And it's the same, right, like, it's the
hardest part is being gonesometimes, and the funnest part
is also being gone sometimes.
But like, I think, you know, theplaces I get to see and meet and
all over the US, and theexperiences that I got to have
and that I'm still having too.
But you know, I remember myfirst helicopter ride was in
(29:04):
Glacier National Park, and I wason the fire use module. And I
had read and seen about thislittle granite chalet up there
that people pay to, you know, godo for the weekend. You know,
where I was flying in ahelicopter and getting to go, I
was getting paid to do that. So,you know, the funnest parts are
those experiences of, you know,being with your friends. I mean,
(29:27):
that are more like family,because you spend sometimes more
time with them than you actuallydo your friends at home or your
family. So you become veryclose. But yeah, I think that
the funnest part is having thoseaway experiences. And the
hardest part is also not beinghome and having those home
experiences when you feel likeyou should be there.
Luca (29:50):
Um, how hard was it to advance positions in wildland?
Jennifer Diamond (29:54):
Oh, well, for me, you know, I told you about,
like, having kids and stuff, so,like, there was a different you
know. Like pause a little bitfor me that maybe others won't
have, but I think that for you,I would say like to not be in a
hurry, right? Because you don'tknow where you want to go or
what path you want to choose.
You just kind of have thoseexperiences, and then you start
(30:16):
getting to see those differentopportunities. So yeah, I feel
like I just kept seeing my nextopportunity, right? So I am the
type of person where it's like,I might have, like, this larger
goal in mind, but really likethe steps that it takes to get
to that larger goal I don'talways have planned. It's mostly
(30:37):
like, Oh, I see that. I'll trythat. And how do I do that and
apply here. And we'll see whathappens. And so I feel like I
was pretty fortunate that mypath led me to where I am now.
You know, having having my twosons, I ended up going into
recreation for, I think it wasjust half a summer, because I
(31:00):
thought, Oh, I'm not going toleave my kids and get back into
fire right away. But I so I wentinto recreation, which meant I
was just kind of going in andout of campgrounds, taking the
fees, hanging signs, makingpublic contacts, cleaning the
restrooms, and then my old crewcalled me back because somebody
(31:24):
quit, and they asked if I couldjump back on the engine. So my
intentions weren't to go backinto fire right away, but, but I
did. I got called back, and thatwas 2009 and so that little
stint that I did in recreationactually helped me get my next
job when I came here in to Reno,because that job, part of that
(31:49):
job, was making public contactsand hanging signs, which I
couldn't put on my resume beforebeing on the crews and the
engines I didn't really, youknow, get out and make all these
public contacts, and I had to beable to write tickets, and which
I started doing as arecreationalist. So, yeah, that
opportunity came because I, youknow, did recreation for a
(32:15):
couple years. So then that'swhere my patrol job was, a
combination kind of of offighting fire with with the
recreation background, eventhough I only did it for half a
summer, but that's what helpedme advance into my next role
there and then, yeah, I feellike just kind of, you know,
(32:35):
having a big network and workinghard, just kind of kind of made
my next connection into my nextmove that I was going to make,
or my next job I was going totake, and just building my
resume. So I think I got kind oflucky with just the decisions
that I made as the opportunitiesarose.
Jenni Burr (32:55):
Do you feel like in your time, this little aside,
but in your time, do you thinkthat wildland fire has become
easier for mothers like youknow, are there things in place
now that weren't maybe, when youstarted that you think would
make it easier to be a mom who'sfirefighter, or is it still.
Jennifer Diamond (33:15):
I think it's still challenging. Yeah. I mean,
yeah, there's still, like, youstill have to try to find care
for your child, or have a goodspouse that is willing to have
that flexibility and not knowingif you're not coming home at
nighttime, there's still, Ithink there's still the same
challenges, yeah.
Jenni Burr (33:33):
And as you kind of alluded to, it's not the same,
probably, for fathers as it isfor mothers. In a lot of ways.
Jennifer Diamond (33:39):
I'm shaking my head, no. I mean, they have
their own challenges, right?
They feel like, you know, theyhave their different feelings of
not being there and missing outon birthdays or events or
weddings and anything. You know,they still have their own like,
kind of mental thing that theyhave to go through.
Jenni Burr (34:00):
The life that's continuing at home while they're
on a fire.
Jennifer Diamond (34:03):
Yeah, yeah.
Lucy (34:05):
So like, what do you think is the most rewarding part of
the job?
Jennifer Diamond (34:09):
Oh, you know, I'm gonna go back to the
community feel like, I feellike, you know, knowing that,
you know, you put in line, andit held there, and it didn't
reach a community. Or, you know,now in my public information
job, you know, getting positivecallers that say, Thank you for
saving my community, kind offeeling, or, you know, even
(34:31):
being part of like a fuelsreduction project, and knowing
that the reason why Firefighterswere able to engage safely in
operations were because we putthat fuels reduction project in
there, and the fire slowed itsprogress when it reached that
fuels reduction project, andfirefighters could engage now
and safely fight fire. You know,those are a bunch of like, I
(34:53):
would say, just wins. You knowthat feel that feel good.
Jenni Burr (35:02):
During a wildfire, firefighters have a lot to do.
Make it easier for firefightersto defend your home by creating
defensible space now. Defensiblespace is the area between a
house and an oncoming wildfirewhere the vegetation has been
managed to reduce the wildfirethreat. Proper defensible space
doesn't mean removing allvegetation, though, by following
(35:25):
the lean, clean and green rule,you can keep your property safe
while preserving its naturalbeauty. Check out our defensible
space guide to learn more. Youcan find the guide in the
resources section of our websiteat livingwithfire.org
Luca (35:44):
How long did it take to get into the position that you
are now in wildland?
Jennifer Diamond (35:49):
Well, I started in 99 and it's 2025 so
you know, 26 years.
Lucy (35:57):
Is the like position you are now, something that like you
could start off in, or is itsomething you have to work
Jennifer Diamond (36:02):
It's definitely something you have to
towards?
work towards. So, I mean, youcould, you know, definitely have
a degree and start off at ahigher it used to be called a
GS, a general pay scale, butjust recently they changed it
into a wildfire. You get like GWnow, because we're considered
(36:22):
maybe wildland firefighters now.
So I think you could probablystart off maybe at like a GS
five or something like that now.
But yeah, I started at a GS three.
Jenni Burr (36:35):
And typically with like the federal service, it
takes you at least a year toadvance to the next level with
there's some jumps, but youknow, so that gives you a sense,
and just because you can, like,if you're minimally qualified,
doesn't mean you actually getthe job. So it can take longer.
Jennifer Diamond (36:51):
Yeah, and then when you're seasonal, so you
know, in the beginning, youmight only work six months out
of the year, so really, you havea GS four for at least two
seasons before it adds up to onecalendar year. So yeah, I mean,
it took me 26 years to get here,although there was a couple of
(37:12):
years that I took off because Iwas having my boys. But each GS
level takes a little while tojust kind of feel like you're
established and you are readyfor the next step. I encourage
this for an opportunity, forsure, but just be open minded to
other opportunities that maycome along your way. Like, for
(37:33):
me, the reason why I got towhere I am is because they're
just kind of kept being like,Oh, I'm gonna take that
opportunity, or, yeah, I'm gonnatry this out, or I'm gonna set
my mind and I'm gonna reallyshoot for this. And so for you
guys, I feel like that can be inor outside of fire, just there's
(37:54):
gonna be opportunities that comeand don't, like, be closed
minded to anything, because, youknow, you gotta kind of weigh
it, and be balanced in yourdecisions. But, like, I think it
was a good choice for me, and itworked out. But I think that
it's not for everyone either.
Like I said, being away fromhome and, you know, it's, uh,
(38:15):
that mental grit where it's hot,it's dirty, you're not taking a
shower, you're not eating thefood that you want to eat. Like,
there's things like that thatjust isn't for everyone, and
that's okay, you know. So Ithink Luca experienced maybe a
little bit of that on the firecamp crew. Maybe not like
(38:36):
personally, but you got to seeother people maybe not love it
as much as you did, or viceversa. And so yeah, and that's
okay, because I'm not cut outfor some other jobs that are out
there like I would never be ableto do that, you know? So I think
that experiences are good, andI'm happy that you guys are in
(38:57):
this class and getting to learnbecause if anything if you don't
choose to end up being wildlandfirefighters, you know, what is
being put into the effort whenthere is a wildland fire, and
what is happening in yourcommunity, right? Versus sitting
on the couch watching the news.
(39:19):
You know, just kind of tellingpeople how they should fight
fire. When you have no idea, youguys will have this background
knowledge with knowing what wedo and understanding what's
happening in your community.
Jenni Burr (39:35):
Jen, how do you think this program is helping
with the recruitment of futurewildland firefighters?
Jennifer Diamond (39:41):
I think it's great. I think, you know, now we
have four classes. Let's saythere's an average of, you know,
15 students per class ish, Iknow those numbers are off a
little bit, but there, ifthere's even just one or two out
of each class, right, thatthat's, that's a win, and I feel
like they're coming into thisway more experienced than any
(40:04):
other firefighter that comes inon year one. They've already
have three or four years undertheir belt, and know all of the
terminology, really, and thetools and the equipment, and so
I do think it's helping. But youknow, like when I was chatting
with Lucy and Luca earlier, it'sjust like, if they don't end up
(40:25):
getting jobs, that's okay,because now they're going to be
homeowners one day. And like,just be better educated on what
wildland fire is. Because Ithink a lot of people, you know,
see the red trucks and thinkthat that's, that's
firefighting, but, you know,there's a different kind of
firefighting that they'relearning about here with
(40:48):
wildland. You know, the otheraspect to recruitment is, I
don't know that we're going tobe able to tell right away,
because, you know, my first yearteaching here, there was only
one senior in that class. And sothey graduated and didn't choose
a wildland fire route. So thenext year, I think there are
(41:09):
three seniors, maybe, and sothey, one of them, went into
military fire, some sort of fireroute with the military. And
then, you know, this year wouldbe our third year, and I'm not
sure how many seniors there arethis year. So you know, as we
kind of keep building theprogram, like, we won't really
(41:29):
be able to tell until we're atleast in our fourth year, and
we're having 15 seniors graduate.
Jenni Burr (41:36):
And probably, realistically, you're probably
looking at, like, 10 years untilyou have a real feel for impact.
Jennifer Diamond (41:42):
Yeah.
Jenni Burr (41:53):
Thank you for listening to the Living with
Fire Podcast. You can find morestories and resources about
wildfire at our website,livingwithfire.org. The Living
with Fire program is funded bythe Bureau of Land Management,
the Nevada Division of Forestryand the US Forest Service. And
we're managed by the Universityof Nevada, Reno extension, an
(42:14):
equal opportunity institution.
Workforce development is like a big part
(00:02):
of what kind of UNR has beendoing, and extension is doing,
because it's a great way oftaking some of the knowledge and
research that's coming out ofuniversities and helping apply
it into the public andcommunity, which is that classic
extension model.
Lucy (00:17):
I definitely think even if you're in this academy and you
don't want to be a firefighter,it'll set you ahead for another
career, because you learn somuch about communication working
as a team, because so much ofthe fire is working with someone
like accomplishing a certainmission or communicating what
you need to do. So even if youdon't want a job in fire, all of
those skills will help you somuch throughout life, even if
(00:38):
it's not in fire.
Jennifer Diamond (00:40):
And I feel like they're coming into this
way more experienced than anyother firefighter that comes in
on year one. They've alreadyhave three or four years under
their belt, and know all of theterminology, really, and the
tools and the equipment.
Jenni Burr (01:04):
This is the Living with Fire Podcast. Brought to
you by the Living with Fireprogram at the University of
Nevada, Reno Extension.
Hi. Welcome back. I'm your host.
Jenni Burr, Outreach Coordinatorfor the Living with Fire
program. In this episode, weexplore a part of the workforce
development that our programdoes. I talk with Living with
(01:26):
Fire Special ProjectsCoordinator Spencer Eusden about
the fire science program hedeveloped in conjunction with
the Bureau of Land Management,Truckee Meadows Fire and the
Washoe County School District.
This workforce developmentprogram is housed at the Academy
of Arts, Careers and Technology,or AACT, a high school in Reno
(01:46):
that gives students a chance totake specialized career and
technical classes alongsidetraditional academic subjects.
We talk with AACT students abouttheir experience in the fire
science program. Then we'rejoined by Jen Diamond, who
answers questions about thestudents and shares her
perspective on the fire scienceprogram, Jen is the state lead
for fire prevention, mitigationand education with the Bureau of
(02:09):
Land Management, and served asthe lead instructor for the
wildland firefighting portion ofthe fire science program the
past two years. And now let'shear the episode.
(02:34):
We're here today with SpencerEusden who works as a Special
Projects Coordinator with Livingwith Fire. So can you tell us a
little bit more about what youdo in conjunction with Washoe
County School District?
Spencer Eusden (02:46):
Yeah, thank you.
So one of the projects I've beenable to work over for the last
two and a half years now is theFire Science Career and
Technical Education Academy atthe Academy of Arts, Careers and
Technology. Here it's a publicschool in Washoe County School
District, and we have a reallyspecial high school academy
that's preparing a whole bunchof youth for careers in the fire
(03:08):
service. And so how this reallystarted was both Truckee Meadows
Fire and Rescue and the Bureauof Land Management here in the
greater Reno area have realizedthat workforce development is a
big issue, and they cametogether in partnership with
Living with Fire and the WashoeCounty School District to make
this academy happen. And thatstarted in the fall of 2023 and
(03:32):
how it worked for the first twoyears is that in the fall,
Truckee Meadows would provideinstruction for about structure
fire. And then in the spring,Bureau of Land Management would
provide instruction aboutwildland fire. And what's really
exciting right now is that forour first year, the program is
(03:53):
big enough that Washoe CountySchool District has hired a full
time teacher who's a retiredfirefighter to be the kind of
core instructor making thisprogram happen. And we still
have a bunch of support withguests from Truckee Meadows Fire
and Rescue and guests fromBureau of Land Management coming
in to make this program happen.
(04:13):
A couple cool things today isthat you're going to hear from
two of our students, who areboth juniors in this program,
kind of sharing what thisprogram is like and how it is
shaping how these two youngstudents are thinking about
potential future careers in thefire service as kind of a way of
showing you what's going on,this program and this approach
(04:35):
to workforce development.
Jenni Burr (04:37):
Is it also the case that UNR is really interested in
workforce development as well,or that extension is, is that?
Spencer Eusden (04:46):
Yeah, and so I think workforce development is
like a big part of what kind ofUNR has been doing, and
extension is doing because it'sa great way of taking some of
the knowledge and researchthat's coming out of
universities. And helping applyit into the public and
community, which is that classicextension model, and that's kind
(05:06):
of where here, like mybackground in education and work
with Living with Fire, has beenable to really help this program
do all the great things we do.
And my role in this program hasreally been to support our
firefighter instructors, whoknow a ton about firefighting,
but they've never taughtteenagers before, and so we kind
of use some of this, likeunderstanding of education, to
(05:29):
help make this program make firecareers more accessible to these
students, as they're teenagerstrying to understand what they
want to do in the world, andwhat opportunities are there in
the fire service.
Jenni Burr (06:00):
Today, we are with Luca and Lucy, who are students
at the Academy of Arts, Careersand Technology in Reno. So can
one of you start off and tell usa little bit about your school?
Luca (06:14):
So with our school, we have a ton of different programs
that we've just gotten a few newones, and we've had a few old
ones. The Academy that we're inright now is fire science. It
just recently started ourfreshman year. And so our
program's already grown quite abit.
Jenni Burr (06:33):
Tell us a little bit about the fire science program
here at AACT.
Lucy (06:37):
Yeah. So we have, like, structure half of the year, and
then a wildland half of the sofor structure, we have actual
like Truckee Meadowsfirefighters that come in and
help teach us things, whetherit's like about the trucks or
about ladders or ropes and likelifts and carries and stuff like
that. And then during thewildland section, actual BLM
people come in and they taughtus about different forms of
(06:59):
communication, how to dig lineand stuff like that.
Jenni Burr (07:03):
And if I remember correctly about these kind of
special academies to get in, youactually have to apply to the
programs, right? And so how didthat go for you? Like, how? How
did you decide that you wantedto kind of apply?
Luca (07:18):
So I found out about the school from my brother. And so
when I went to apply, I appliedfor three different academies,
EMR, arts and then fire science.
When they responded like saying,which academies I'm able to go
into, my only option wasfirefighting and art. I was
like, I'd rather dofirefighting.
Lucy (07:40):
So everyone like when they're applying, applies for
three academies. So I appliedfor engineering, culinary and
fire science. I got into allthree, but I applied wanting to
go into the fire scienceAcademy. So for me, it was an
easy choice.
Jenni Burr (08:00):
Are you an educator who would like to incorporate
wildfire lessons into yourclasses? The Living with Fire
wildfire science curriculum isdesigned to help youth
understand the role of wildfirein Nevada ecosystems and learn
how to reduce their household'swildfire risk. Find out more at
livingwithfire.org.
(08:25):
Now, so Lucy, can you tell us alittle bit about the fire
Lucy (08:29):
The fire science program is kind of split into like two
science program?
semesters, so like at school. Sothe first half we do is
structure fire, which is morelike houses, like the classic
firefighters you see with, like,the big red trucks and the
ladders and everything likethat. And the other half of the
school year is the wildlandside, where it's like, you learn
how to dig line and then, like,throw hoses and all kinds of
(08:50):
stuff like that.
Jenni Burr (08:51):
Nice. Luca, do you have anything to add to that?
Luca (08:54):
Um, so with both wildland and urban, it gives us really
great job opportunities for whenwe're older.
Jenni Burr (09:03):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. And just out of curiosity,as you're exploring both sides,
do you find yourself drawn toone more than the other? Or are
you pretty open to pursuingeither of them?
Luca (09:16):
I think pursuing both them would be my ideal. There's not
many stations that actuallyallow it, or like that are made
to be able to do both. But whatI'm going for is trying to
become a wildland and urbanfirefighter.
Jenni Burr (09:33):
Yeah, and Truckee Meadows Fire Protection
District, I think, has some ofthose kind of people, right?
Lucy (09:39):
Um definitely, I'm more interested in structure. I'm not
Yeah.
a big hiker, which is a mainpart of wildland, but both, like
you get such great opportunitieswith this program to learn about
both of them. So it's like, evenif you're less interested in,
like for me, wildland, you stilllearn so much about something
where even while doingstructures, things you learned
(09:59):
for wildland might. Come intoplay so.
Jenni Burr (10:01):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So let's start
with Luke. How did you becomeinterested in a fire related
career?
Luca (10:08):
Um, as a kid, I was always kind of like going through what
careers I'd want to be. So Iwent between like artist to
veterinarian to firefighting.
Um, the reason I got intofirefighting is because, where I
live, there's always a lot offires on the hills, and so I'd
love to, like, watch all thefire trucks and all that roll in
and take care of the fires. AndI just thought it was super
(10:32):
cool.
Jenni Burr (10:33):
Lucy, how about for you? How did you get interested
in fire?
Lucy (10:37):
Um, so, like, before I thought about ever being a
firefighter, I kind of alsowanted to be vet, but um, and
when I was, like, in like,elementary school age my
grandparents' house burned down.
And so like, my whole family andstuff like this, kind of had to
watch it burn down. And so,like, from then, it's kind of
like what I wanted to dobecause, like, the sitting there
watching is just like, you wantto do something, but you can't,
yeah. And so, like, it kind ofjust, like, spoke to my interest
(10:59):
in it.
Jenni Burr (11:00):
Yeah, that's definitely a compelling reason.
Yeah, and to want tomaybe help others to not have
Lucy (11:03):
Yeah.
that happen. So Lucy, what hashad the biggest impact on how
you view jobs in the fireservice?
Um, I mean, so for like,each side of fire, there's
different jobs you can do. Sofor like wildland, there's like
(11:23):
different jobs, like fireinvestigating in something
that's not really as big a thingin structure, at least, like now
that we've learned about yet, Iguarantee there is. But for both
sides, there's just different,like, different careers you
could have, like another part offire, which isn't like exactly
on it. But you can do dispatch,or you can do something like
that, which automatically wouldhelp fire in a different way
(11:44):
than being directly on it.
Jenni Burr (11:46):
Yeah, definitely, yeah. So kind of the careers
that are adjacent to.
Lucy (11:51):
Yeah
Jenni Burr (11:52):
Adjacent to fire itself.
Luca (11:54):
The biggest impact on how I view the job was when I went
to the AD camp and I got to seehow all the roles worked
together.
Jenni Burr (12:03):
So can you tell us what is the AD camp?
Luca (12:05):
Oh, um, so the AD camp is this camp crew where if you sign
up, you'll you'll be workingwith BLM, and you'll be put on a
list where you can get calledout nationally. Um, so when I
was on there. I got to go to theConnor Fire in Reno, and then I
also got to go to the TurnerGulch Fire in Colorado. You
(12:27):
could go anywhere. We almost gotcalled out to Alaska, actually.
Jenni Burr (12:32):
And so what was your experience when you were in the
camps?
Luca (12:35):
So at the camps, our boss, Dan, will get a group of 10
people, and we'll get sent outto the fires. And for two weeks,
we'll be working there. We'll besleeping in tents. And the main
jobs that we're going to bedoing there are working with
supply, handing them out to thefirefighters at their request.
We also work with the reefers,so we're handing out water,
(12:58):
Gatorade and ice, oh, and boxlunches. And then we also do a
lot of cleanup after thefirefighters. So we don't leave
the places messy or anything.
Jenni Burr (13:08):
Right because the camps, they just sort of build.
Luca (13:12):
Yeah.
Jenni Burr (13:12):
Like they're mostly kind of tents and not really,
truly buildings around, yeah, soI would guess there would be a
lot of cleanup to do. And, like,was it fun? Like, did you meet a
bunch of people?
Luca (13:24):
Yeah I've met a lot of people. When you go there,
you're gonna meet a bunch ofdifferent people who have all
these different kinds of skills.
And while you're there, you justmake really good friends with
them, and you kind of just teacheach other stuff. So while I was
at the Turner Gulch camp, I wastaught how to make arrowheads. I
learned how to play hacky sack.
(13:45):
There was one other I forgot.
Jenni Burr (13:47):
Nice. Sounds fun.
Yeah. So something that's alittle different here at AACT is
that you have actualprofessionals coming in and
teaching you some of the skills,right? So, how was it different
to have a firefighter or awildland firefighter, teaching
your class versus a kind ofstandard teacher.
Luca (14:07):
I think it was a lot more easier to learn the units
because we have actual peoplewith experience on the job. We
get to learn things firsthand,show see how it was from their
experience, rather than having ateacher just kind of babble on
about this and that withoutbeing able to see it in real
Lucy (14:29):
like they're students. But when actual people would come
life.
in, we'd kind of get treatedmore like we're adults, and like
we'd have, like, you have tobehave, like, in this like
world, it's just that you haveto do it's a serious job, and
(14:51):
you have to take it seriously.
And so, like, it was really niceto be treated kind of more like
we're trying to do something,and not just like we're at
school trying to, like, learnmath or something, like we're
learning something topotentially. Like to get a
career in which is, like,important and something that
takes seriously so.
Jenni Burr (15:04):
Yeah and does it help with some of those other
classes that are, like,mandatory, like, can you see
connections now, or not really,between, like, some of your
other classes and fire science?
Lucy (15:14):
I mean, maybe in chemistry a bit. But I do think having
this class that, like, we all,like, chose to have, along with
the classes that like your firstlike have to take, like, the
ones that like are needed. Itdefinitely makes the day easier,
because you have those classesthat, like, you're really
excited for, so like you'rewaiting to get to those. So
(15:34):
then, like, you can just get tothat today.
Jenni Burr (15:36):
And does it feel a little bit like you're taking a
step towards like, your future,instead of sort of like feeling
like you're treading water, andjust like putting in time to
check off that you like havegraduated.
Luca (15:49):
Um, I think with this class, it definitely helps us
move forward a lot faster thanwhat we'd be doing if we started
when we got out of high schoolor college. It gives us, like, a
really big head start. It'spreparing us for rookie school.
It's preparing us for thehardships, the fun, all that.
Jenni Burr (16:08):
And does it also kind of tell you some well it
sounds like it does, like, whereit gives you some different
options of pathways. And then,does the program actually help
you connect in with like, kindof that next step?
Lucy (16:20):
Yeah, I think so we learn a lot about, like, TMCC's, the
community college around here,their fire academy, which we
can, like, apply for after highschool, which is then, like, the
next step to be able to go to,like, work in a career in
structure fire. But I definitelythink even if you're in this
academy and you don't want to bea firefighter, it'll set you
(16:42):
ahead for another career,because you learn so much about
communication and working as ateam, because so much of the
fire is working with someone andgetting like accomplishing a
certain mission or communicatingwhat you need to do. So even if
you don't want to job in fire,all of those skills will help
you so much throughout life,even if it's not in fire.
Jenni Burr (17:05):
Partnerships are at the heart of the work we do at
Living with Fire, the firescience program at the Academy
of Arts, Careers and Technology,highlights how the work we do
with the Bureau of LandManagement and Truckee Meadows
Fire helps educate Nevadans andpromotes workforce development
to learn more about ourpartners, visit blm.gov/nevada
(17:27):
and tmfpd.usJoining us now is Jen Diamond
with the Bureau of LandManagement. Jen, can you please
share a little about your roleat BLM and how you got connected
with the fire science program.
Jennifer Diamond (17:44):
Yeah so my Fire Management Officer, who is
the Fire Management Officer forall of Nevada BLM. His name is
Brock Uhlig, had an idea aboutbringing a wildland fire academy
to high school, and so we workedclosely with AACT and partnered
with them, and worked withLiving with Fire to build a
(18:06):
curriculum and just slowlystarted bringing it to life. And
so I was the lead instructor forthe first two years. The second
year I had another instructorwith me because the classes grew
from one to three classes, I'msorry, from two to three
classes. And yeah. So I kind oftaught the curriculum that
(18:28):
Living with Fire Spencer Eusdenbuilt, and we just kind of kept
incorporating fun, hands onactivities and building off of
ideas, off of each other, almoston a daily basis.
Jenni Burr (18:41):
Yeah, so probably kind of grew organically through
Jennifer Diamond (18:42):
Yeah.
Jenni Burr (18:42):
Probably where you'd think you'd try something and
that first year, especially.
then expand on it, or decidethat wasn't.
Jennifer Diamond (18:51):
Yep.
Jenni Burr (18:52):
Gonna happened next time.
Jennifer Diamond (18:53):
Yeah.
Jenni Burr (18:54):
What's it like to work with the students in the
program?
Jennifer Diamond (18:57):
It was fun. I mean, I know I have kids that
are, well, now they're 17 and19, but when we started this
program, I believe they were 16and 18 or 15 and 17 and so,
yeah, I felt like I could, Icould relate to them a little
bit. And each kid has their ownpersonalities and strengths and
(19:18):
weaknesses, just like we do whenwe're working in fire or on a
crew, right? Like they havetheir own little personalities.
And you can see some of themtake on that leadership role
immediately, and some of them,you know, being more of creative
maybe, or maybe some of thembeing more physical or so it was
(19:40):
really cool to just kind of seethem, you know, utilize their
strengths there and build upontheir weaknesses, and then also
just seeing them grow so muchfrom year to year, like right
now, I just walked in the roomand saw Lucy, and I was like, Oh
my gosh, I haven't seen her in awhile. And was like, You matured
so much just watching themchange. Physically and mentally,
(20:02):
and it just made me think aboutfire in a different way that I
had never thought about before.
Because when I tried to kind ofrelate to, you know, a 14 to 17
year old brain, it definitelymade me think about things
differently, and they, you know,taught me stuff too, right? So I
think that it was a hugelearning experience for me
(20:24):
teaching kids, because I'vetaught fire classes before to
adults that are signed up forthis and are choosing this path
100% this is like, what they'regoing to be doing. And so that
was the experience I had withworking with students before
they were adults, and so workingwith 14 to 17 year olds
(20:45):
definitely made me think aboutthings differently. And you
know, just the maturity level,you know, isn't quite there yet.
And so just trying to make itrelatable and fun and engaging
was different.
Jenni Burr (21:03):
For sure.
Jennifer Diamond (21:04):
But you know, we're all students of fire. We
say that all of us, no matterhow many years of experience you
have, so this was part of thatfor me, still.
Jenni Burr (21:14):
Did that also change, like, how you interact
with some of the younger crewmembers that are coming on,
like, thinking about like those18, 19, year olds, where they're
not that far off of kind of theupper end of high school.
Jennifer Diamond (21:26):
A little bit like this year. So I run with a
complex incident managementteam. So those are the larger
incidents. And I am a sectionchief for public information
officers. And there was a coupleof younger you know, 22 24 year
olds. And I was like, Oh, myGod, I used to be one of them,
(21:47):
and now I'm old. Think aboutlike, how to communicate in a
understandable way, but, butyeah, I guess a little bit.
Jenni Burr (22:01):
And Jen, one last question for you before we turn
it over to the students. Whatadvice do you have for people
interested in getting jobs inwild on fire?
Jennifer Diamond (22:10):
Yeah, I think that there's everyone kind of
tends to think, oh, physical,physical. I need to work out and
you do like you need to trainpretty hard where you are, you
know, running, hiking, weighttraining, eating healthy, taking
care of yourself. I feel likethat's a huge part of this,
right? But I think that a lot ofthe times, people don't
(22:31):
recognize the mental aspect ofit. And I think that it's it's
pretty even there for me, right?
So of course, the physical partis going to keep you safe and
keep you, you know, able to keepup and do your job and be able
to cut line and, you know, carryheavy things. But the mental
part of it is you have to wantto kind of be part of a
(22:55):
community, right, and then alsobe away from home, like you
can't really train for that,right? So a lot of people, their
first or second roles out thererealize that, you know, you
don't have the comforts of home.
You know, I was just gone forprobably 50 something days this
(23:17):
summer, and, you know, there'sno running water.
Jenni Burr (23:21):
Yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (23:23):
You don't flush a toilet.
Jenni Burr (23:24):
Yeah.
Jennifer Diamond (23:25):
You don't have soft toilet paper. You don't
just open a refrigerator and getfood. You don't lay in your bed.
You don't have your dog. And soI think, you know, and that's
hard for I think, these studentsto understand, between the ages
of 14 and 17, you may not haveexperienced that, or know what
that would even be like to tomiss that. So I, I do feel like,
(23:48):
um, mentally, it's it's just asmuch of a challenge as as it is.
Physically. I do also think thatso for some advice is just the
crew cohesion that you get andthe camaraderie that you get is
you are in it all together, andit does feel like a great team
(24:09):
effort and like celebration insome ways, that you are making a
difference and that you aremaybe, you know, protecting your
community or somebody else's sojust being a part of that is is
a reward.
Jenni Burr (24:25):
Definitely.
84% of wildfires nationwide arecaused by people. If you're
planning on heading out andenjoying public lands, visit
nevadafireinfo.org and learn howyou can recreate responsibly and
do your part to preventwildfires.
(24:50):
All right, we're going to turnit over to Lucy and Luca to ask
Jen some questions that theyhave for her about wildland
firefighting.
Lucy (25:00):
So like, what originally made you want to be a wildlands
firefighter?
Jennifer Diamond (25:05):
I had no idea what I was getting myself into,
to be honest. So I was 18, Imoved to Tahoe, and I saw a
flyer that said, Do you likehiking and do you like camping?
And I was like, Yeah. And theywere like, take these classes,
and I wanted to be a firefighteras a little girl, but I only
(25:25):
knew the red trucks. I didn'tknow about wildland and so when
I saw, do you like hiking andcamping and then you want to be
a wildland firefighter? Waslike, okay, like, I really
didn't know, really what it waslike you guys get to learn for
three or four years in theirclassroom about all this stuff.
Like, I didn't know what I wasgetting into, but it sounded
cool, because I was like, Oh, Iget to travel too, and they'll
(25:47):
pay me all right. So I tookthose classes. I actually, I got
tonsillitis, and I took thoseclasses still, because I was,
like, my only shot, and I I hada Bronco, which I still have.
It's my son's now, but, myBronco broke down, and I had
tonsillitis, and I had to ridemy bike to these classes, and I
(26:08):
could barely breathe. I had afever, like it was so awful, and
like, sit through these classes.
And so back to the mental partof it, right? Like I was like, I
could do anything for a coupleweeks, right? So, yeah, I didn't
know what I was getting into,but it just sounded fun because
it was physical and I got totravel. And, yeah, wildland
firefighting was something Ireally didn't get to learn
(26:30):
about, like you guys are gettingto learn.
Luca (26:35):
What were the hardships that you had to go through while
achieving this job, and whatwere the fun part?
Jennifer Diamond (26:41):
Oh, boy. Well, so I started when I was 18, and
then I had my first son when Iwas 25 and so, you know, I had
just, I was a seasonal employeebefore I had my son, so I
couldn't work once I waspregnant, right? I didn't have
(27:03):
insurance and things like that,so I was in really good shape,
and used to being gone andworking and traveling and
working with I was on a fire usemodule. I was on engines, also
hand crews. Then I just had to,like, stop, right? I was
pregnant and I had two sons, andand then I ended up going back
(27:26):
to firefighting. And so it wasjust so different after that,
right? It was all about mebefore, like, oh, just be
physical, have fun, do all thesethings, and now I have two
babies, right? So I think myhardships were finding the
balance of still trying to, youknow, provide for myself and my
(27:49):
family the way that I was usedto doing before and physically,
I had lost some of my strengthsright after having kids. So I
think that that was different. Ithink that's not a lot of, you
know, men don't go through thatpart. So that was challenging
for me to just kind of try andget back in the game and in,
(28:10):
like, find the balance of beinga mother and and doing this,
this job, and still trying to,you know, find, like, a career
ladder for myself too to where Icould advance and not be
stagnant, you know, other thanthat, I feel like, again, I just
think, you know, there'schallenges of being away from
home, right? So that's myhardship, and that's part of, I
(28:34):
think, my challenge there. Andthen what was it? It was my
hardships.
Luca (28:39):
And fun parts.
Jennifer Diamond (28:41):
And it's the same, right, like, it's the
hardest part is being gonesometimes, and the funnest part
is also being gone sometimes.
But like, I think, you know, theplaces I get to see and meet and
all over the US, and theexperiences that I got to have
and that I'm still having too.
But you know, I remember myfirst helicopter ride was in
(29:04):
Glacier National Park, and I wason the fire use module. And I
had read and seen about thislittle granite chalet up there
that people pay to, you know, godo for the weekend. You know,
where I was flying in ahelicopter and getting to go, I
was getting paid to do that. So,you know, the funnest parts are
those experiences of, you know,being with your friends. I mean,
(29:27):
that are more like family,because you spend sometimes more
time with them than you actuallydo your friends at home or your
family. So you become veryclose. But yeah, I think that
the funnest part is having thoseaway experiences. And the
hardest part is also not beinghome and having those home
experiences when you feel likeyou should be there.
Luca (29:50):
Um, how hard was it to advance positions in wildland?
Jennifer Diamond (29:54):
Oh, well, for me, you know, I told you about,
like, having kids and stuff, so,like, there was a different you
know. Like pause a little bitfor me that maybe others won't
have, but I think that for you,I would say like to not be in a
hurry, right? Because you don'tknow where you want to go or
what path you want to choose.
You just kind of have thoseexperiences, and then you start
(30:16):
getting to see those differentopportunities. So yeah, I feel
like I just kept seeing my nextopportunity, right? So I am the
type of person where it's like,I might have, like, this larger
goal in mind, but really likethe steps that it takes to get
to that larger goal I don'talways have planned. It's mostly
(30:37):
like, Oh, I see that. I'll trythat. And how do I do that and
apply here. And we'll see whathappens. And so I feel like I
was pretty fortunate that mypath led me to where I am now.
You know, having having my twosons, I ended up going into
recreation for, I think it wasjust half a summer, because I
(31:00):
thought, Oh, I'm not going toleave my kids and get back into
fire right away. But I so I wentinto recreation, which meant I
was just kind of going in andout of campgrounds, taking the
fees, hanging signs, makingpublic contacts, cleaning the
restrooms, and then my old crewcalled me back because somebody
(31:24):
quit, and they asked if I couldjump back on the engine. So my
intentions weren't to go backinto fire right away, but, but I
did. I got called back, and thatwas 2009 and so that little
stint that I did in recreationactually helped me get my next
job when I came here in to Reno,because that job, part of that
(31:49):
job, was making public contactsand hanging signs, which I
couldn't put on my resume beforebeing on the crews and the
engines I didn't really, youknow, get out and make all these
public contacts, and I had to beable to write tickets, and which
I started doing as arecreationalist. So, yeah, that
opportunity came because I, youknow, did recreation for a
(32:15):
couple years. So then that'swhere my patrol job was, a
combination kind of of offighting fire with with the
recreation background, eventhough I only did it for half a
summer, but that's what helpedme advance into my next role
there and then, yeah, I feellike just kind of, you know,
(32:35):
having a big network and workinghard, just kind of kind of made
my next connection into my nextmove that I was going to make,
or my next job I was going totake, and just building my
resume. So I think I got kind oflucky with just the decisions
that I made as the opportunitiesarose.
Jenni Burr (32:55):
Do you feel like in your time, this little aside,
but in your time, do you thinkthat wildland fire has become
easier for mothers like youknow, are there things in place
now that weren't maybe, when youstarted that you think would
make it easier to be a mom who'sfirefighter, or is it still.
Jennifer Diamond (33:15):
I think it's still challenging. Yeah. I mean,
yeah, there's still, like, youstill have to try to find care
for your child, or have a goodspouse that is willing to have
that flexibility and not knowingif you're not coming home at
nighttime, there's still, Ithink there's still the same
challenges, yeah.
Jenni Burr (33:33):
And as you kind of alluded to, it's not the same,
probably, for fathers as it isfor mothers. In a lot of ways.
Jennifer Diamond (33:39):
I'm shaking my head, no. I mean, they have
their own challenges, right?
They feel like, you know, theyhave their different feelings of
not being there and missing outon birthdays or events or
weddings and anything. You know,they still have their own like,
kind of mental thing that theyhave to go through.
Jenni Burr (34:00):
The life that's continuing at home while they're
on a fire.
Jennifer Diamond (34:03):
Yeah, yeah.
Lucy (34:05):
So like, what do you think is the most rewarding part of
the job?
Jennifer Diamond (34:09):
Oh, you know, I'm gonna go back to the
community feel like, I feellike, you know, knowing that,
you know, you put in line, andit held there, and it didn't
reach a community. Or, you know,now in my public information
job, you know, getting positivecallers that say, Thank you for
saving my community, kind offeeling, or, you know, even
(34:31):
being part of like a fuelsreduction project, and knowing
that the reason why Firefighterswere able to engage safely in
operations were because we putthat fuels reduction project in
there, and the fire slowed itsprogress when it reached that
fuels reduction project, andfirefighters could engage now
and safely fight fire. You know,those are a bunch of like, I
(34:53):
would say, just wins. You knowthat feel that feel good.
Jenni Burr (35:02):
During a wildfire, firefighters have a lot to do.
Make it easier for firefightersto defend your home by creating
defensible space now. Defensiblespace is the area between a
house and an oncoming wildfirewhere the vegetation has been
managed to reduce the wildfirethreat. Proper defensible space
doesn't mean removing allvegetation, though, by following
(35:25):
the lean, clean and green rule,you can keep your property safe
while preserving its naturalbeauty. Check out our defensible
space guide to learn more. Youcan find the guide in the
resources section of our websiteat livingwithfire.org
Luca (35:44):
How long did it take to get into the position that you
are now in wildland?
Jennifer Diamond (35:49):
Well, I started in 99 and it's 2025 so
you know, 26 years.
Lucy (35:57):
Is the like position you are now, something that like you
could start off in, or is itsomething you have to work
Jennifer Diamond (36:02):
It's definitely something you have to
towards?
work towards. So, I mean, youcould, you know, definitely have
a degree and start off at ahigher it used to be called a
GS, a general pay scale, butjust recently they changed it
into a wildfire. You get like GWnow, because we're considered
(36:22):
maybe wildland firefighters now.
So I think you could probablystart off maybe at like a GS
five or something like that now.
But yeah, I started at a GS three.
Jenni Burr (36:35):
And typically with like the federal service, it
takes you at least a year toadvance to the next level with
there's some jumps, but youknow, so that gives you a sense,
and just because you can, like,if you're minimally qualified,
doesn't mean you actually getthe job. So it can take longer.
Jennifer Diamond (36:51):
Yeah, and then when you're seasonal, so you
know, in the beginning, youmight only work six months out
of the year, so really, you havea GS four for at least two
seasons before it adds up to onecalendar year. So yeah, I mean,
it took me 26 years to get here,although there was a couple of
(37:12):
years that I took off because Iwas having my boys. But each GS
level takes a little while tojust kind of feel like you're
established and you are readyfor the next step. I encourage
this for an opportunity, forsure, but just be open minded to
other opportunities that maycome along your way. Like, for
(37:33):
me, the reason why I got towhere I am is because they're
just kind of kept being like,Oh, I'm gonna take that
opportunity, or, yeah, I'm gonnatry this out, or I'm gonna set
my mind and I'm gonna reallyshoot for this. And so for you
guys, I feel like that can be inor outside of fire, just there's
(37:54):
gonna be opportunities that comeand don't, like, be closed
minded to anything, because, youknow, you gotta kind of weigh
it, and be balanced in yourdecisions. But, like, I think it
was a good choice for me, and itworked out. But I think that
it's not for everyone either.
Like I said, being away fromhome and, you know, it's, uh,
(38:15):
that mental grit where it's hot,it's dirty, you're not taking a
shower, you're not eating thefood that you want to eat. Like,
there's things like that thatjust isn't for everyone, and
that's okay, you know. So Ithink Luca experienced maybe a
little bit of that on the firecamp crew. Maybe not like
(38:36):
personally, but you got to seeother people maybe not love it
as much as you did, or viceversa. And so yeah, and that's
okay, because I'm not cut outfor some other jobs that are out
there like I would never be ableto do that, you know? So I think
that experiences are good, andI'm happy that you guys are in
(38:57):
this class and getting to learnbecause if anything if you don't
choose to end up being wildlandfirefighters, you know, what is
being put into the effort whenthere is a wildland fire, and
what is happening in yourcommunity, right? Versus sitting
on the couch watching the news.
(39:19):
You know, just kind of tellingpeople how they should fight
fire. When you have no idea, youguys will have this background
knowledge with knowing what wedo and understanding what's
happening in your community.
Jenni Burr (39:35):
Jen, how do you think this program is helping
with the recruitment of futurewildland firefighters?
Jennifer Diamond (39:41):
I think it's great. I think, you know, now we
have four classes. Let's saythere's an average of, you know,
15 students per class ish, Iknow those numbers are off a
little bit, but there, ifthere's even just one or two out
of each class, right, thatthat's, that's a win, and I feel
like they're coming into thisway more experienced than any
(40:04):
other firefighter that comes inon year one. They've already
have three or four years undertheir belt, and know all of the
terminology, really, and thetools and the equipment, and so
I do think it's helping. But youknow, like when I was chatting
with Lucy and Luca earlier, it'sjust like, if they don't end up
(40:25):
getting jobs, that's okay,because now they're going to be
homeowners one day. And like,just be better educated on what
wildland fire is. Because Ithink a lot of people, you know,
see the red trucks and thinkthat that's, that's
firefighting, but, you know,there's a different kind of
firefighting that they'relearning about here with
(40:48):
wildland. You know, the otheraspect to recruitment is, I
don't know that we're going tobe able to tell right away,
because, you know, my first yearteaching here, there was only
one senior in that class. And sothey graduated and didn't choose
a wildland fire route. So thenext year, I think there are
(41:09):
three seniors, maybe, and sothey, one of them, went into
military fire, some sort of fireroute with the military. And
then, you know, this year wouldbe our third year, and I'm not
sure how many seniors there arethis year. So you know, as we
kind of keep building theprogram, like, we won't really
(41:29):
be able to tell until we're atleast in our fourth year, and
we're having 15 seniors graduate.
Jenni Burr (41:36):
And probably, realistically, you're probably
looking at, like, 10 years untilyou have a real feel for impact.
Jennifer Diamond (41:42):
Yeah.
Jenni Burr (41:53):
Thank you for listening to the Living with
Fire Podcast. You can find morestories and resources about
wildfire at our website,livingwithfire.org. The Living
with Fire program is funded bythe Bureau of Land Management,
the Nevada Division of Forestryand the US Forest Service. And
we're managed by the Universityof Nevada, Reno extension, an
(42:14):
equal opportunity institution.
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