November 24, 2025 • 52 mins
Ellen Rohr is one of the MOST influential leaders in home services. She helped grow Benjamin Franklin Plumbing from zero to 47 locations and over $40M in franchise sales in under two years. She’s the co-founder of ZoomDrain, now with 60+ locations nationwide. And she’s a major industry leader at ServiceTitan, where she helps thousands of contractors build more profitable companies.
In this episode, we dive deep into the real financial mechanics behind a successful home service business. Ellen breaks down the three KPIs every owner must master, why most contractors are drastically underpriced, and the simple math that shows exactly what you should be charging. We talk about how she turned around failing companies, how she scaled two national brands, and the mindset shifts that separate million-dollar operators from everyone else. You’ll also hear her most brutal lessons, her personal development journey, and her best advice for any owner looking to grow with clarity, confidence, and real profit.
Ellen Rohr, Co-founder of Zoom Drain:
Website: https://ellenrohr.com/
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ellen-rohr-5052101
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ellenrohr
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ellenrohr/
Her Book: https://a.co/d/3ruYEGj
Danny Leibrandt, Founder of Pest Control SEO:
Facebook: https://facebook.com/DannyLeibrandt
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/dannyleibrandt/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/DannyLeibrandt
Website: https://dannyleibrandt.com
Pest Control SEO: https://pestcontrolseo.com/
Local Marketing Secrets Platforms:
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LocalMarketingSecrets
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1TCL0LhZbsJS6mzanqnnT1?si=224075c9fbda42f5
Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/local-marketing-secrets/id1741176782
Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/e0bb5254-5d6c-4940-8211-085157cc1239/local-marketing-secrets
Podcast Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Ellen Rohr
02:58 Turning Challenges into Opportunities
05:58 The Importance of Financial Literacy
09:05 Sales Skills and Business Growth
11:52 Key Performance Indicators for Success
15:01 Pricing Strategies for Profitability
17:47 Understanding Business Fundamentals
21:03 Navigating Business Challenges
23:56 Setting Realistic Financial Goals
27:51 Pricing Strategies for Success
30:13 Thinking Bigger: Overcoming Limiting Beliefs
33:40 The Power of Personal Development
34:49 Lessons from Successful Companies
38:11 The Journey of Zoom Drain
42:33 The Importance of Personal Growth in Business
46:14 Navigating Brutal Moments in Business
51:05 Embracing Opportunities in Home Services
#homeservicebusiness #homeservicemarketing #localmarketing #localbusiness #homeserviceadvertising #localseo #localadvertising #seo #marketing #podcast #business #localbusinesspodcast #dannyleibrandt #localmarketingsecrets #localsearch #localseotips #localseoexpert #zoomdrain #ellenrohr
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey there, my name is Danny Lebrand and welcome back to
local marketing secrets. Today I'm with Ellen Rohr, the
Co founder of Zoom Drain, a rapidly growing drain and sewer
franchise now with 60 plus locations across the United
States. She's also a major industry
leader at Servicetitan, where she grow or where she serves as
the brands and industry marketing lead and helps guide
(00:21):
thousands of contractors on building better, more profitable
companies. Ellen has one of the most
powerful stories in the trades. She came into the industry as a
plumber's wife, stepped into a struggling business after a sun
tragedy and turned it around by mastering the financials and
simplifying operations. From there, she became the
president of Benjamin Franklin Plumbing and helped grow that
(00:43):
franchise from zero to 47 locations and over $40 million
in franchise sales in under 2 years, one of the fastest
growing expansions in the home services industry.
In this episode, we'll talk about how she helped grow 2
national brands so quickly, the most common money and pricing
mistakes she sees across the trades, and her best advice for
(01:04):
home service owners who want to scale with clarity, confidence
and real systems. Now, without further ado, Ellen.
Ellen, welcome to the show. Hi, Danny.
I'm so happy to be here. I think you're.
I'm so happy to be, yeah, I'm sohappy to be here with you, too.
Yeah, a little fun. Yeah, Mark, I'm flopping.
Over you. Sorry about that.
No, no, you're all good. So we, we had a phone call about
(01:25):
a month ago and I was mentioningthat I, I saw you speaking at
Tommy Melo's home service freedom.
I think you did an amazing job. You have such great energy
throughout the whole thing and all the podcasts that I listen
to you on and I just think you're you're an awesome person
in this space. I feel like there's.
I love that. Yeah, I don't.
(01:46):
I don't want to. I don't want to go too much, but
you know, I, I just really respect you and I, I think
you're doing some really cool things.
Oh, you know, I've lasted a longtime, Danny, that and I, I will
tell you too, as a, it's like 15minutes ago, I was your age.
I felt like I was the youngster in the group that there was a
lot of older folks and I couldn't wait to, to learn and
(02:06):
to put my energy behind business.
And now the tables have turned. I'm like the, the grandmama in
the in the group. And I'm so happy to see you.
I'm, I'm very prejudice towards the youth.
You know, one of the things I wanted to share with your, your
listeners today is none of this is hard.
There's like the grit is important, but grit is fun.
(02:27):
It's like why you train for a marathon.
It's because it'll make something of you, not because
it's a, you know, easy, whateverthat means.
Jim Rohn describes easy as something you can do.
So you can definitely do this business.
And I think that a lot of old folks like me are going to try
and tell you how hard this is. Maybe that's their reality.
(02:50):
But my encouragement for our conversation today and for the
sake of our listeners is let's find an easier path, shall we?
This isn't not that hard. And anything that you need to do
to grow your business is not only something you can do, is
something you might really enjoydoing.
And even the mistakes or the hiccups or the wrong turns turn
(03:10):
into stories or songs or art anddefinitely a lesson.
So let's have some fun with thisfor sure.
That's how we broke your businesses.
Well, Speaking of hard, you grewBenjamin Franklin Plumbing from
0 to $40 million. I mean, how does that happen?
How did that start? And.
Well, I had help, and this is there's a great expression.
(03:32):
My friend Nelmer Merlino says you can have it all as long as
you don't do it all. And I was fortunate enough to
not know very much. So I had to get help through
others. But let me, let me tell you how
that started. So prior to that, my husband and
I had a, a plumbing, heating andsolar company in Park City, UT.
(03:53):
His name is Hot Rod. That's why I married him because
we're nicknames. We'll get you far.
And so Hot Rod and I got marriedand he had a partner named
Richard Yox who died suddenly atage 33.
He literally worked himself intoa health crisis.
He wasn't very healthy and then he just would work, work, work
and and he stressed and stressedkills.
And it was a a really tragic moment for us.
(04:17):
My husband and his friend Yox had been friends since they were
eight years old. And then I did a really dumb
thing and I said, Walt, listen, I'm I'm going to quit my real
job. I had a career in the restaurant
industry. I've had a million jobs, but was
kind of making my way in the restaurant world.
And I quit that job and I went to work with my husband and it
was terrible, absolutely terrible.
(04:39):
We hated on each other. We still have the scars from
those days. I would say, yeah, you know, we
don't have any money. And he would hear, I'm not good
enough. I'm not working hard enough.
And it, it just, it was really arough time for us.
And then I found a mentors. I found my my most significant
(05:00):
financial mentor is a, is a fellow named Frank Blau, who now
is button up against 100 years old.
How about that? Still picking and still bossing
us around. But I started to learn from
people smarter than me. And, and the, the big lesson for
me came from the financial end of things.
Like Frank taught me how to create, use, read, understand
(05:28):
and make decisions off financialreports, the balance sheet, the
profit and loss. And I'd gone to college for this
stuff and I still never learned it or didn't know how to clean
up a messy set of books, which is what most people's books are.
So that was like this life changing, life defining moment
for me was like, how do people not know this?
I raised my prices, I started tomake more money.
(05:50):
Hot Rod and I decided not to work together anymore, which
we'll get into a little bit later, because we just had
different goals and dreams. We're still married.
But you don't, you know, you don't necessarily have to stay
in a business that doesn't suit you.
So we'll get there in just a second.
But money buys options. And as we turned our company
around and got out of debt, we had the wherewithal to make
(06:13):
choices that aligned with what we really, really wanted.
And Danny, somewhere along the line, I just wanted to see if I
had the chops to grow a bigger business.
I thought one and you may have had this feeling before that guy
is running that business. Does that make sense?
(06:34):
I see him looking right. So you're just like looking
around going, OK, I bet I could do that.
I just wanted to see like you have these maybe innate.
It's just a scratch that I thinkyou should pay attention to how
Rod did not have that. How Rod like is going.
Are you kidding me? I don't want to do the employees
I don't want, and I honor and respect that too.
So for for you, for anyone listening, I think what I
(06:59):
learned during this time, and I've kind of made it a life's
goal to keep asking this question is like, what do you
want? What do you want?
Regardless of what anyone else is doing, regardless that you
know of anyone else's hopes and dreams, What do you want?
And are you willing to commit tothat?
So at the time I had this just this itch, like I want to grow a
(07:21):
big business. And I thought the only way I was
going to be able to do that was with my plumber husband.
The two of us could go out there, but he didn't want it.
And so like, that might be whereyou find yourself in, you know,
the position you find yourself in with partners or with family
or, you know, sometimes you're just going in different
directions and doesn't make anybody right or wrongs.
(07:43):
But I, I knew I had this, this drive.
So we sold our company to our employees and I was like, I was
lost, like what do I do? How do I serve?
What's the point? What do I want?
And I just knew I wanted to growa, a company that's like the
only I just thought it looked fun.
And then I did I, you know, I started sharing what I learned.
(08:05):
I do you start with what you know, I started teaching people
how to read a balance sheet and a profit and loss.
I started doing consulting for mom and pop companies.
Here's your asset, here's for your elbow, you know, that kind
of thing. Just what I've learned, I
started to share and as a result, I started to speak.
You saw me on stage at home service freedom and I just I
(08:27):
felt I felt honor bound to sharebecause so many people had
shared with me. Frank was really the beginning
of just a a long line of mentorsand, you know, philosophies that
I could could learn from and absorb.
And then I felt compared to share that and I was doing a
seminar one day and after the seminar, Jim Abrams, who's a
(08:49):
legend in our industry came up to me and he said how would you
like to run the country's largest home service plumbing
company? And I said yes.
Now keep in mind the only company I've been involved in at
this point was Hot Rods Company and we had four trucks like that
was it. But when that happened, it was
(09:10):
aligned with what I wanted. And I said yes, even though I
was absolutely not qualified to say yes to that.
And so Jim Abrams is an investor, and he and his partner
invested in this new concept, Benjamin Franklin, the punctual
plumber. So I didn't do it alone.
You never do anything alone. But what I had the opportunity
(09:32):
to do was learn a lot about business and franchising in a
very short period of time. I mean, I do have the scars to
show. Go for it.
There were some brutal moments, but every day I'm grateful for
that experience because of how much I learned in this condensed
period of time. It was really amazing.
And then I left there like in 2023, not 20/23/20 O3 more than
(10:01):
20 years ago is when that, you know, and that it was just a
point at that organization wherehe had grown big enough I was
going to be required to move, which I didn't want to do.
Here's another thing, you know, as I think of like wisdom from
an old woman kind of thing. Once you know how to sell, once
(10:23):
you understand the mechanics of business, you have a lot more
freedom. So one is establishing enough
money, like enough wherewithal that you can pay the bills, then
you can make better decisions interms of what you want.
And then once you acquire the skills, sales skills,
operational skills, you can do anything.
(10:45):
Like, it really takes a lot of fear away.
Does that make sense? I would say, like the essential
business skill is being able to do a needs assessment.
You know, make friends, do a needs assessment, offer
appropriate options and solutions, ask for the sale,
shut up, say thanks you made a decision, or congratulations you
(11:07):
made a great decision. Here's what happens next.
Like that, that skill set allowsme at any point to just think
I'm going to be fine. Does that make sense to you?
Yeah. Did you go through something
like that? Yes, yeah, No, I mean, I think
(11:28):
you kind of have to when you're trying to start a business,
whatever it may be. And that was that was kind of my
main trouble is when I was starting to be an entrepreneur,
I was trying to start doing dropshipping or affiliate marketing.
And I mean, I didn't know any ofthe mechanics of business at
all. So I think that's where a lot of
people kind of start out where maybe in in this space they're a
technician and they're really good at tacking and they're
(11:50):
like, OK, well, I can make a little bit more money or, you
know, the boss is really annoying or it's my dad or
whatever. And then they actually into it
and kind of like you're saying that there's just, there's just
a lack of knowledge with all of these other areas of business
that actually allow you to grow and step out of being an
employee. So like what, what would some of
(12:10):
those key components be then because you like, or maybe some
of the ones that people get wrong the most?
Well, did you? How did you learn to sell them?
Like what was your journey? Did someone teach you?
Did you read a book? What what was like the I, I may
know how to do this, but unless somebody buys it from me, I'm
not going to make a business outof it.
Is is really the the wall you'regoing to hit at this point?
(12:34):
So what was it that shifted for you?
Yeah. So I've always been an avid
learner and I would say a lot ofit is just watching YouTube
videos and trying to figure thatout if people talking about
sales of marketing of financialsor whatever that may be.
So YouTube videos have been havelike completely saved me.
(12:55):
And also I'd say just learning on the fly because even, I mean,
I think you could watch 100 hours of YouTube videos on sales
and yet still get on a sales call and suck.
So I think a lot of it is just wraps.
And I mean, even up until just ayear or two ago, I feel like I
really still wasn't competent atsales and getting on the phone
(13:16):
and actually being able to closesomeone and be be also even
confident in the service. I feel like that's kind of the
other end of it is that, I mean,why sell something if you're not
totally confident in the servicethat you're providing?
So that's kind of my two cents on it.
That's a really great description of a typical
journey, right? To find something and YouTube is
(13:38):
a great place to learn. There's a lot of crap out there
so you have to weed through, butyou find someone who resonates
with you. Like before I signed on with
that and I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on personal
development. Just saying.
But before I would sign on with someone now I'd go look at one
of their YouTube clips, I'd follow them, I'd go to one of
(14:01):
their webinars, you know, and see how they interact live, you
know, so you start to get a feelfor someone that you might use,
use their information to help you take the next step.
And, and I think with mentors, mentors are fantastic, but the
best mentorships turned into friendships where we help each
other. It's not that someone's better
or greater than you, It's that we're going to help each other
(14:24):
out. That's I think where you, you
know, relationships are every, everything in life and in
business for sure. So I think if, if I were to,
there's so many things to do when you start a business, One
book I would read or listen to for sure.
If you are, as Danny just said, a technician who's thinking
maybe I should start my own business.
(14:45):
Michael Gerber, the E Myth revisited.
And there's also our E Myth contractor version HVAC
Contractor Co written by Ken Goodrich, which is very specific
to, you know, trades HVAC trays with applicable to to pest and
other homes. He has one for pest control, he
has one for like all the industries.
(15:05):
All right, so think of that, think of what that business
models like. He just kept every iterating the
same information just with a little specificity and has made
a brilliant career out of it. I love Michael Gerber, but that
idea of running creating a business that's systematic.
Now what that does that it helpsyou make deliver.
It helps you deliver on the promises you make in sales.
(15:28):
So you brought got that up right.
That is, it's one thing to be able to sell it, but now how do
I make good on my promise that, you know, this is this is going
to be the best, you know, it's service you've ever had or
whatever you just said, you know, now you got to make good.
So I would say in order of like how it's functionally going to
work until you have a sale, you have no options.
(15:51):
So learn about sales and and drop whatever prejudices you
have about them because if you're not willing to become
good at sales and communication,you should.
You're going to have a heartbreak as a business owner.
There's just everything depends on your ability to communicate
(16:14):
on sale. Just the natural outcome of a
good communication should someone need or want what it is
that you can do. 100%. Find find out people on YouTube
with whom you resonate and starthoning those sales skills now.
So if you're building a business, just make some sales
and you're going to make eggs and you're going to sell at the
wrong price and you're going to sell something to somebody who
(16:38):
you should never have even continued the conversation with.
Like you're going to make some mistakes, but like you said, you
kind of got to work through them.
You cannot learn how to sell or ride a motorcycle or go skiing
or golf without actually skiing or riding motorcycle or golfing
like that. You have to do the the actual
(16:59):
craft and you're going to be terrible at 1st until you get
better. And then you know, you get that.
You hone your skills even now. And I've sold my whole life now.
I made just a rookie mistake theother day in the sales process
that I just thought, oh man, I thought I was over that.
But Oh well, dust yourself off, admit it and then and then move
(17:22):
on. But selling helps.
So in, in, in, in business, the three main KPI, let's talk about
this because I am a numbers and the numbers aspect of it of
business is really my, my expertise.
I know a little about all areas of business, but the financial
(17:42):
area is the one that I feel likeI have something to share here.
That's a voice, you know, that needs to be out there.
So on the financial side of things, and it ties with
everything, the score, the threemain KPIs are key performance
indicators are sales, profits and cash.
Any business, and they come in this order, sales, profits and
(18:06):
cash. So sell, sell, sell, sell, sell.
Get something up on the top lineand you got a little breathing
room, you got a little bit of money to finesse.
Then pay attention to expenses. So sales are offense, managing
expenses is defense. That's how you get
profitability. As you gather profitability and
(18:30):
you want to get profitable as fast as possible because if you
don't, whatever cash you have you're going to use and you're
going to go into debt. That's it.
Like business is not hard. OK, so suppose you did that and
(18:51):
you got into debt. Now you have to sell better at
better prices. Hone your skills, raise your
prices, and then manage those expenses.
Pay attention to what you're spending money on and how your
your money's going. Owners can't take their eye off
this. This is the game, your money.
(19:12):
It's your job to pay attention, even if you have help.
And you're always going to look for help, but your job is to pay
attention to sales. Minus expenses equals a profit.
And if you've gotten into debt, then you need a really big
profit. You need to collect it today in
cash so that your cash goes up. You can use some of that cash to
(19:33):
pay down your debt and the rest of it to fuel your company that.
Yeah, it sounds so simple when you explain that.
I'm like, the older I get, the simpler this appears to me.
But like, you know, let us know if you've got a, a different
take on that because no, it imposes that you're making good
(19:57):
on those promises because if not, you're giving money back,
you're maybe getting sued. You're maybe losing your team
members because they don't like working for you.
So you know things will fall apart if you don't make good on
the promises that you're making in sales, not just your
customers, but to yourself and to your team members and to your
family. Like business is a ally Brown
(20:20):
early in goddess of the of Internet marketing.
She did an easing Once Upon a time before anybody knew what it
was and grew an empire. But she said she said once that
business is the best personal development course you might
take of what it allows you to explore and understand and
(20:42):
develop within yourself. Yeah, no, I've, I've totally
witnessed that myself, especially with the market
moving so fast with there being so much competition, you have to
constantly be growing or you're dying.
So no, that was that was a really great point on, on those
top 3K PIS. And I know you kind of already
explained this already, but I just want to, I almost want to
go deeper, dumb it down. So let's say for example, a home
(21:05):
service business, maybe they're 300K to $1,000,000 a year.
And let's say they're not profitable, they are barely
making it. Maybe they're even potentially
in debt. Is there like a quick fix that
does it? Do you take like one big
commercial client or what? What do you do?
Oh, I would not do that. So funny that you came up with
(21:30):
that. That's no, I wouldn't do that.
Let me tell you why in just a minute, but here's what I would
do. You're probably underpriced.
You're probably underpriced because if you're 300,000 to
1,000,000, probably not paying yourself yet.
All right, maybe your partner isworking for free.
(21:50):
That person can get resentful. Been there, right?
So like you're, you're pulling in some favors, but it gets old
if there isn't some light at theend of the tunnel that we're
going to go places. And you know, Danny, the reality
is, I don't know if there's a more current statistic, but I
mean, I, I heard, I heard Tommy Mello say this the other day.
(22:11):
We'll quote Tommy. He says only 5% of all
businesses get to 1,000,000. That's how many micro businesses
there are. And at 1,000,000 is where you
might start to take some money out of your company and that
kind of thing. So until you're, you know, at a
million and what is that on a monthly base that's, that's
(22:34):
$83,334 rounding to get to $1,000,000.
So like, and, and this is what we tell our franchisees just
like, get there as fast as you can.
Now, you may still not be makinga lot of money, but it's the,
it's the point at which you could is, is, you know, like
(22:54):
that point is a great place to be because you can be profitable
at that in a service business that should allow you to take
some money to pay your team members better.
Like that's a just go like gangbusters to get to that
point. So really my best advice, and
this is what my mentor, Frank Loud told me Once Upon a time,
until you're priced right, you're not going to get there.
(23:17):
So what does that look like? Let's say, let's say you're
considering starting a business of your own.
Let me ask you this question. If you were to start your own
pest control service business and you were to be the owner and
we're just dreaming right now, so no wrong answers, What would
a reasonable compensation for you as the owner, the one
(23:37):
putting your skin on the on the on the, you know, you put your
skin in the game, you're the onewho's going to answer the phones
back everybody up. You know, it's your money, all
of that. What's a reasonable compensation
dollar amount for the owner of apest control company?
I'd say when you're just starting out, it should be
(23:58):
basically minimum wage. You should be paying yourself as
little as possible so that you can build up the business and
reinvest. Practically, that might be what
you have to do, but you're dreaming right now.
What is a reasonable amount to aspire to?
Like, what's fair for a person who deals with insects and
(24:20):
chemicals and protects the health and safety of families?
What's a reasonable compensationfor the owner of one of those
businesses? Say at least $100,000 a year.
And gosh, you could make $100,000 a year working for
somebody else, couldn't you? Yeah.
OK. So shouldn't it be bigger?
(24:42):
Yes. You see where this goes?
OK, let's suppose it's 200. Let's say that that's, you know,
that would be enough to leave mygreat job.
Like it might not happen right away, but we're you know, what
do you want? You don't want to make minimum
wage or you'd make minimum wage,right?
You start your business because you want more.
(25:02):
OK, so as you want 200,000 and Igot to tell you, it could be
500,000, it could be $1,000,000 a year.
And this guy me is never going to criticize a contractor for
making a ton of money because these are the essential services
that we are the ones whose team members keep people safe and
(25:24):
free of disease and all of that.So like whatever, you pick them
and go, OK, let's back it up. Let's go back and engineer that.
So you're starting out for yourself.
And if you said, listen, I wouldlike to make $200,000 this year,
what would I have to build into my selling price?
Now, you may not functionally beable to take that out, but you
(25:46):
could start pricing for it rightout of the gate because do you
see that trap? I'm not going to make any money
so I can charge less than that guy.
If you don't have sales skills, what you're depending on is
charging less to make the sale. And that's a path to poverty.
OK, All right, So what if I, youknow, just like do it on paper
(26:09):
first, just play with it. OK, so if I were to charge 2, or
if I were to want to make $200,000 a year, how much of my
selling price? OK, how much would I have to
charge just to cover my salary? Let's look at this.
So you suppose you have 2000 hours a year.
That comes from 50 weeks a year times 40 hours a week.
(26:31):
Make the math easy for driving or whatever, right?
OK, so 2000 hours a year is whatsomeone who's going to provide,
actually provide the goods and services is going to be able to
work or even the owner. Shouldn't the owner be able to
punch out now and then? Let's just make it 2000 and not
(26:52):
3000. Does that make sense?
Now, if you're running your own business and also running the
calls, that's a lot because there's all sorts of other
things you have to do, plus go and sell and surf so on.
For a really kicking service company, 50% efficiency is
(27:14):
awesome. And so let's say of those 2000
hours a year, you only have 1000of them that could be billable.
Are you following me? Yeah, that's it.
And this makes the math easy, but it's a pretty tight
scenario. OK, so you got 1000 billable
(27:36):
hours a year. You would have to charge $200
per hour just for your salary. And you haven't bought a pencil
or chemicals or a truck or insurance or uniforms or any
marketing. So can you see how far you could
get to a four hundred $500.00 anhour selling price built into
(27:56):
some kind of menu pricing? And if right now you're
listening to that and you're starting to poop your pants, I
will assure you that the companies who've gotten big have
gone through this and decided that they're going to get good
enough at sales, at service, at operations, while they're
(28:20):
charging enough. Because otherwise, how do you
afford to do it? That's what separates those Uber
successful companies from that one or two truck outfit that is
there for 20 years. Now again, if all you want to do
is work in a truck all by yourself and just, I know some
drain cleaners in Southern California, they go surfing in
(28:41):
the morning and then they unclear drains in the afternoon.
They do YouTube videos, they're adorable.
They're living their dream. You can do that.
If you aspire to something that bigger, just figure it out
mathematically, try and take thejudgement or the emotion out of
it and think what would it take to do that?
(29:03):
I would have to charge more if Iwanted to build a business that
involved other people and multiple trucks and different
services, etcetera. How does this sit with you?
No, I, I love the way you explain that and just the, the
principle of figuring out what you want to do and then reverse
engineering that instead of a lot of guys will just see what
(29:25):
other people are charging in themarket and kind of go in between
that. And also I'd, I'd that's that a
lot of people just have limitingbeliefs and oh, I was making 60
KA year at my job. So if I can make 70 KA year as
the owner of my own business, then I'm, I'm totally cool with
that. But I think, I think that would
be a a big part of it too, is they, they need to think bigger,
(29:46):
right? Well, if you want bigger than
then you got to, but you don't have to.
So what is what did Jeff Duden say?
Just I was on that Unemployable isn't a great name for a
entrepreneurial podcast. Unemployable.
That's a great podcast. Jeff's a really great business
builder, very disciplined. I I love him.
(30:07):
So listen, listen. What's the name of his book?
I can't remember. Maybe it's unemployable.
I can't remember. But Jeff Dudan, DUDAN, that's
we, we have him as a mutual buddy.
But now I lost my train of thought because where were we?
On, on, oh, on, on what you wantto do and how you want to to
(30:28):
grow it. You don't.
Oh, he says. And I don't think he made it up,
but he quoted it. Comparison is the thief of joy.
I heard him say that, yeah. Yeah, I don't know who said it
originally, but he said it the other day.
And I love that quote. And it's a So when you go to
seminars, you see Tommy Mello onstage, or Jeff or Victor Rancor,
(30:50):
Lance Bachman or Catherine Elizabeth, or, you know, all
these cool people who are out there doing cool things.
May I remind you that the game is to be the best version of
you. Yes.
You know, and they're all screwed up in some way.
Everybody is not. Everybody has all aspects of
(31:11):
their business and personal lifedialed in.
Who does? No one.
So you know, you're going to getinspiration and information from
these sources. You know that YouTube clips and
going to seminars and reading books, but the implementation is
up to you and you get to decide what it is that you want to be
and do and have. And I think, you know, that's
(31:33):
important to remember. So a podcast like this, I hope
we're stirring up those thoughtsfor you.
You know, like what is it that you really, really want?
One of the things I figured out along the way and this I mean,
you're I'm still figuring this out.
I'm 66. I'm could be your grandmother.
(31:53):
The I really like the zero to 1 moment.
I really like when there's nothing and then there's
something, but then I don't really want to take it to 10 or
I don't, I'm not skilled enough to do it and I'm not so
motivated to learn those skills.So there's something about the
startup, the beginning before wescrewed it up yet that really
(32:16):
appeals to me. So like, I love that experience
with Benjamin Franklin. I loved it with Zoom Drain and
now with Zoom at Zoom Drain, it really came down to do I want to
move to Philadelphia because that's where headquarters is,
and develop my personal skill set so that I could be the
president of a much larger organization.
(32:38):
And I just went, no, it's OK. Like this point, let's find
someone else who can do it better than me.
And that gives me a lot of joy and freedom.
And so like, that isn't every person's decision, but that's
what's feeling right for me. And so that's the encouragement
is to keep looking. No one is senior to you when it
(33:00):
comes to deciding who it is you want to be and the things that
you want to have and you know what you want to do.
Tommy Miller talks about being abillionaire.
And I have no interest in that. That looks like a lot of phone
calls and responsibilities. I mean, you have to be like, you
have to be interested in what the game of being a billionaire
(33:23):
would be. And it just doesn't ring a bell
for me. How have a millionaire?
Sounds sterile, right? So like, you get to decide.
You get to decide these things. And hopefully we're encouraging
you along those lines. Yeah, definitely.
No, I think that's honestly the best and most practical advice
to any business owner because like you mentioned that, I mean,
(33:46):
you see the Tommy Mellows of theworld and it's just like, well,
you know, I've been in it for 20years and I'm, you know, barely
at $1,000,000. So, you know, Tommy who's been
in it for 20 years or maybe a little bit less than that, he's
at like 200 or $300 million. So you, like you said, you can't
compare. You just have to be on your own
path, be your best version of yourself because everyone has
(34:07):
their flaws. And yeah, I really like that.
And something else I want to mention, because you started
going in a Zoom Drain, I want you to tell me the story of Zoom
Drain and how you guys grew thatso quickly and what what was
what made it so successful? But you just triggered something
for me that I don't want to miss.
So I'm going to tell you this first.
OK, So I was at, gosh, the Victor Rankers presentation and
(34:29):
right behind me was Wyatt Hapworth.
Now, Wyatt is a legend. He and his family business has
grown to 120 million in sales inSalt Lake City, and they have
partnerships with about 30 othercompanies.
And the whole shooting match is now doing over a half a billion
(34:50):
in sales. And I met him and I was kind of
starstruck. And we hit it off.
And like, often you're going to hear from a mentor, He said,
we'll read this book. This is a book I've been
recommending a lot. And this book is called Finish
Big by Bo Bertlingham, who's a legend in in small business.
Finish Big is about how you're going to exit your company and
(35:12):
the thought, the thesis of this book is that you should think
about that. You could think about that on
day one and you can change your mind, but could you build a
company that would allow you to exit because you will die and
you can't take it with you? Like that's the like you're,
you're always going to exit yourbusiness.
Consider that as you're growing your business.
(35:33):
No, the way out before you go in.
I love the advice. The book's fantastic, but listen
to Wyatt's story. You know, you brought up you
could be at $1,000,000 for 20 years and most companies will be
a million or less for their entire life cycle.
By far and away the most. So anyway, Wyatt, any hour,
(35:55):
plumbing, HVAC and electrical, they're like 50 years old.
This company, it was Wyatt's granddad and then his dad and
Wyatt had been at the helm for 20 years of the 50 years, OK,
and they were at two and a half,$1,000,000 in sales.
So it wasn't that Wyatt came in and instantly everything took
(36:17):
off, But what happened is 20 years in, Wyatt starts thinking
about what he really, really wants and decides that now's the
time. And he has this this young man
who just been working with him one week.
This is a friend of mine, DustinVan Orman, who works with him.
He's amazing. Then he walks into the office
(36:37):
and Wyatt says, I think we can do better.
And Dustin's like, OK, I'm in. And they they take what they
call the good to great road tripso that a few of them got in the
truck. There's only 5 technicians at
this point in this company come of them get in the truck and
they go and visit some cool shops.
They do a road trip. But the rule was the only thing
that they could listen to while they were driving was the book
(36:58):
Good to Great by Jim Collins, another classic.
And they started talking about what they saw at these companies
and what did they really want? They just had this like focused
moment that really became the catalyst for them changing
everything. So to your point, no matter how
long you've been at where you are, the point of power is now.
(37:19):
Even when I look at financials, I'm, I rarely look backwards.
I'm always like, OK, now and forward, now and forward because
the point of power is now. The opportunity is what lies
ahead. But the past is done.
OK, you can learn whatever, but don't dwell there and certainly
don't define yourself by the past or talk about it because
(37:42):
you're just recreating it. So like that point of power is
here and you decide and you takesome aligned action for what you
want that next step to be. That's what's really critical.
Now let me tell, I'll tell you alittle bit about about Zoom
drain. I love Zoom drain.
I love drain cleaning. I love a dirty job.
So I like that. So Jim Cranetti was one of my
(38:06):
clients back in the day when I was doing the financial
consulting. Here's your asset, here's your
elbow, you know, putting some simple financial systems in
place. Here's one of my clients, and
he's a former military guy, an Air Force officer, very high
standards. Absolutely love Jim Cranetti and
then my best friend Al Levy. And if y'all don't know Al Levy,
(38:29):
go to 7 Power contractor #7 Power contractor.com and meet
Al. Al is the of us and Al and I did
I. Had him on the show like 6
months. Ago.
That's right, you said. Yeah, isn't he the best?
Oh, he's awesome. Yeah.
I talked to him at a home service, Freedom too.
I spent maybe 20-30 minutes withhim.
He's just, I mean, he's such a good person and he's so
(38:49):
knowledgeable and the, the way he thinks he's awesome.
He's awesome. Al is like the gold standard.
We always wish Al were wrong once in a while.
He never is. Just do what Al tells you to do.
So anyway, Al and I had become friends.
I, you know, he and I've been friends for a while that he
start, he sells his company. He's like, he just does what he
(39:12):
does because he loves you. Like, that's why Al is
motivated. He works with Tommy fairly
exclusively now. They're good buddies.
But back in the day, he and I were both consulting.
He'd do some consulting and would refer each other because I
knew the financial piece and he was great at operations,
marketing, sales. He would take those aspects and
we would work with the same clients over and over again.
(39:34):
And then we also decided to helpeach other.
So once a year would have like alittle retreat and talk about
our own goals and dreams and what we wanted to have happen.
And as we were talking, he said,well, I still have an itch to
scratch. I wanted to be an investor.
And I also want to pass on the information that I've created,
you know, the systems that I've created.
So I have those things yet to do.
(39:55):
And I said, well, I love that you want to be an investor.
What I'd like to do is franchiseagain.
I really love, learn to love thefranchising model at Benjamin
Franklin. I wanted to do it again.
I wanted to be an owner this time, so I was.
You know, toying with that idea and at that point alls phone
lights up and it's Jim Carniti and he says I'm thinking about
(40:19):
franchising Zoom Drain and wanted to know if you would
help. It was absolute kismet.
And so we didn't talk to anybodyelse.
We didn't look elsewhere. And then Al and his infinite
wisdom says, OK, that's fine, but we're going to work on your
shop 1st and make sure we're ready to go.
So that was the next two years. And that's just Al is
(40:41):
methodical. He's a tree planter.
You know, he wants to get the systems dialed in.
And so we did. And that was 10 years ago.
And we're not the fastest growing franchise out there.
I don't know that I would aspireto be that.
And there's always things you could do different and better.
I mean, if you want to do great things, get prepared to, Brené
Brown says. If you dream big and dare
(41:02):
greatly, you won't just fail. You will fly, SWAT fail.
You will fail hard. Yeah.
And so you got to decide do you want that?
But if you do, and if you are OKwith picking yourself back up
and learning from that and goinglike that's just the it's just
(41:23):
the Annie up to do great things is that you're going to fail
hard yelling is it fail, fail hard, Meaning it's you're the
grounds it's going to hurt. But it's not that hard to get
back up again. Really it isn't.
It's just like a phone call, an apology.
I mean, unless you kill a man and it can happen in our
(41:45):
industry, right? Trucks are dangerous businesses.
The most, the most dangerous thing you have on the track is
the truck. Now I can head driving the
truck, right? We all like, we're all at risk
in these businesses. And I don't want to downplay the
seriousness of a bad day, but ifyou didn't kill a man today,
(42:05):
there's really nothing you can'trecover with.
You know, some humility and vulnerability and being willing
to suck it up and try again or make the relationship better,
you know, so those are all partsof it.
But in any event, we set off on this journey and it's been, you
know, just a trip. I love drain cleaning more than
(42:29):
ever. But I'll tell you what's dawning
on me is we have a really solid system.
Let's talk franchising for a minute because there's a lot of
franchises in your in your audience, even with the very
best system and zoom drains is so solid.
It's very simple clearing drainsis not infinitely complicated.
(42:51):
And I'd say that with some humility, I don't clear drain.
So the fine men and women in this world to do, I have so much
respect for you, but my job is to set up a system where you can
thrive and you can do well and you can be honored and respected
for the work that you do and make really great money.
But as you, you know, take on a franchise or you start a
(43:15):
business, if you have a really great franchise, it's probably
not the systems and procedures that are going to get in the way
of your success. It's going to be all about the
personal development, the grit that it takes to keep showing
up, the sales skills and communication skills with your
(43:35):
teammates. You got to grow those, you know
what I mean? It's not just a matter of
reading the manual and clearing the drain or doing the
marketing. It's who you are going to become
as the owner of a business that will determine the success of
the business by your own yardstick.
Like you'll be happier as you, you know, go within and find
(43:58):
those areas that you need to work on.
You're going to fail every day, but that piece of it is is so
important. And so one of the things we have
at Zoom drain is our values. But the the way to live the
values isn't just to to read them or understand them is to be
willing to go inside and become the best version of you.
I think that personal development is just a critical
(44:22):
element of living a happy life as well as being a successful
business owner. Does that make sense?
Like it's not totally does now our values at Zoom drain the the
mnemonic is grow, GROW grit, responsibility, ownership and
willingness is really all about leaning in, showing up every
(44:43):
day. And what keeps you from doing
that? What keeps you from going into
the office or riding along on the truck or learning things
that make you feel uncomfortableis really the relationship that
you have with yourself. And that's, you know, that's
something that the older I get, the more important I realize
that is like it's not just a matter of getting the road map,
(45:05):
it's that you got to travel thatpath if what you want is on the
other other end of the road. Like that's that's the piece
that I think you want to look long and hard at if you're going
to embrace the journey of entrepreneurism franchise, you
know, just that that that's the path. 100% as as we begin to
(45:29):
wrap up here, Ellen, I want to ask you, no, I mean, if you have
like an extra 30 minutes, we could keep going, but we're
just. I don't know if our dear
listeners have that much time, so yeah, yeah. 10 more minutes.
We'll make a Part 2. What do you say?
Yeah, I think that's done to do that.
Happy to happy to come back. Yeah, No, I'd love to have you
(45:50):
back. So, So one thing I wanted to ask
you kind of adjacent to that of growing as a as a person, not
just the business owner, is whatsomething you mentioned at the
beginning or early in the podcast is that you've gone
through a lot of brutal moments.You specifically use that term
brutal moments. So what were some of the brutal
moments that you went through and how did you get through
(46:11):
them? I think when, when you
disappoint someone, I think is when it gets a brutal like
we're, we're whatever the setup was.
And this can happen in a sale ofany kind that you make a you
make a promise and you see the picture and it doesn't come out
to look like that. I mean, that's why the word
responsibility is one of our values.
If it's in my hula hoop, I now own it.
(46:35):
And if it's a relationship that needs to be mended, then it's my
job to do it or live with a fractured relationship.
You know, some of those things happen in your life and
sometimes it's OK and other times it breaks your heart.
You know, the, the, the, that people will come and go in your
life. And that's where I think long
term lifelong friends are so, soimportant.
(46:58):
But there will be times where you disappoint.
I think one of the things as a leader, that one of your jobs as
a leader is to take the arrows. Some has to just stand in the
arrows and that if you're the owner, it's always you and it's
what you signed on for. But that that can hurt.
(47:19):
Is it hard? Yeah.
But it's also just, again, that's where the adventure lies,
is doing things that you might not be ready for, that you could
do better next time. You know, that's how it becomes
this lifelong personal development journey.
So I would say, you know, those relationships that becomes the
(47:39):
brutal part or the money thing is brutal.
Like when you're out of money, it is brutal and people have a
misunderstanding that somehow money is what makes you.
I think there's a lot of stinking thinking around money,
that if I were a really good person, I wouldn't be bothered
with the mundane aspects of thisworld, like having to deal with
(48:04):
money, that the money would justcome, that everything would be
fine. But what I found is that the
lack of money causes people to drop their integrity.
So a good person might do something really bad when they
run out of funds. It's the whole premise behind
the book Les Miserables by Victor Hugo is he's broke, and
(48:27):
so he steals a loaf of bread. This isn't a man who would go
about stealing. He didn't have any money, and
that's what happened. So you might not pay your
payroll taxes or you might not go back and fix that customer's
problem because damn it, they didn't pay you enough in the 1st
place. And you see what I'm saying?
So the lack of money, an abundance of money, can allow
(48:48):
you to maintain your standards in a way that no money puts you
at risk. And I would say then some of the
brutal times in my life is when,you know, I don't know where
payroll is going to come from orI don't know.
And that's why it was so important early on to get priced
right and to figure that out. So that really became the
mission of my life, is that if you're going to do this, you
(49:12):
deserve to make a lot of money. Your team deserves it.
And you're going to need it to survive the inevitable tough
time that you don't even know iscoming, right.
That money. Money helps when it comes.
That Zig Ziglar says money isn'teverything, but it's right up
there with oxygen on the Gotta Have It meter.
Yeah, right. So that's, I think that's why
(49:34):
that area of business I can helpwith, even though there's a lot
more to learn about life and business.
But that piece. And if you want to leave this
for you, our dear listener, ellenroar.com, ELLENROHR, that's
me.com. I give away a copy of Where did
the money go on my site. You put your name and e-mail
address and then you'll get it via, you'll get APDF via your
(49:58):
e-mail. And if you're starting a
business or you want to grow yours, no bad thing comes from
reading that book and and sharing it with the people you
love. So.
Awesome. Well, cool, you beat me to it.
I was actually going to give youa chance to promote.
So cool that definitely make sure to go by.
If you're interested in Servicetitan, I've had my friend
Max here over my shoulder as a brand ambassador for
(50:21):
Servicetitan. Servicetitan is appropriate.
If you're over the hump of about3 trucks and you really want to
grow, Servicetitan can be a terrific ally for you.
So check out servicetitan.com aswell.
Yeah, definitely Servicetitan runs or that they own field
routes, which is. Field routes is the one even
more appropriate. If you're a a pest control
(50:43):
professional, Field routes mightbe the the the way for you to to
explore great. No, so that there's tons of CRMS
in the space and it seems like kind of the default and what a
lot of people like is, is field routes and it used to, it
started out as pest routes. So it's as kind of that pest
control background too. And one thing I, I did want to
ask you before we close, Ellen, and what would I like to ask all
(51:05):
my guests is what is your message to the home service
owners or just people in the home service space out there?
What do you want to tell them? What do you think they need to
know? Oh, you're in the best place
ever right now. Best place ever.
I'm like, I am so delighted at the opportunities that are
available for whatever you want to do.
(51:25):
Home services is going to be positively impacted by AIAI is
going to make your life so much easier.
But at some point somebody has to show up at your customer's
home or their place of business and say how you doing.
And that is a really good place to be right now.
So you're in a good spot. Awesome, I agree and also where
(51:46):
can people find you on social media to follow you?
Ellen Rohr, just search Ellen Rohr or if you go to YouTube,
Ellen Rohr and you'll see a bunch of my videos come up at
ELLENROHR is my handle. Thanks, and thanks for all you
do, Danny. You're inspiring, inspiring to
me. I love what you're doing for the
industry. Thank you so much.
Yeah, no, thank you for your time here, Ellen and everyone
(52:08):
make sure to go follow Ellen across all the platforms.
She is, you know, one of the most well known people in home
services, especially in regards to finances and making sure
you're profitable. Your KP is all the stuff that
we've talked about on the show. And yeah, we'll probably have to
do a Part 2 on this because I, Ifeel like we're just scratching
the surface with a lot of these things.
And in 40 years, that's what people are going to say about
(52:30):
you, too, Danny. Yeah.
No, I appreciate that. Thank you.
All right. Thanks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for coming on, Ellen.
It's been a blast.
Hey there, my name is Danny Lebrand and welcome back to
local marketing secrets. Today I'm with Ellen Rohr, the
Co founder of Zoom Drain, a rapidly growing drain and sewer
franchise now with 60 plus locations across the United
States. She's also a major industry
leader at Servicetitan, where she grow or where she serves as
the brands and industry marketing lead and helps guide
(00:21):
thousands of contractors on building better, more profitable
companies. Ellen has one of the most
powerful stories in the trades. She came into the industry as a
plumber's wife, stepped into a struggling business after a sun
tragedy and turned it around by mastering the financials and
simplifying operations. From there, she became the
president of Benjamin Franklin Plumbing and helped grow that
(00:43):
franchise from zero to 47 locations and over $40 million
in franchise sales in under 2 years, one of the fastest
growing expansions in the home services industry.
In this episode, we'll talk about how she helped grow 2
national brands so quickly, the most common money and pricing
mistakes she sees across the trades, and her best advice for
(01:04):
home service owners who want to scale with clarity, confidence
and real systems. Now, without further ado, Ellen.
Ellen, welcome to the show. Hi, Danny.
I'm so happy to be here. I think you're.
I'm so happy to be, yeah, I'm sohappy to be here with you, too.
Yeah, a little fun. Yeah, Mark, I'm flopping.
Over you. Sorry about that.
No, no, you're all good. So we, we had a phone call about
(01:25):
a month ago and I was mentioningthat I, I saw you speaking at
Tommy Melo's home service freedom.
I think you did an amazing job. You have such great energy
throughout the whole thing and all the podcasts that I listen
to you on and I just think you're you're an awesome person
in this space. I feel like there's.
I love that. Yeah, I don't.
(01:46):
I don't want to. I don't want to go too much, but
you know, I, I just really respect you and I, I think
you're doing some really cool things.
Oh, you know, I've lasted a longtime, Danny, that and I, I will
tell you too, as a, it's like 15minutes ago, I was your age.
I felt like I was the youngster in the group that there was a
lot of older folks and I couldn't wait to, to learn and
(02:06):
to put my energy behind business.
And now the tables have turned. I'm like the, the grandmama in
the in the group. And I'm so happy to see you.
I'm, I'm very prejudice towards the youth.
You know, one of the things I wanted to share with your, your
listeners today is none of this is hard.
There's like the grit is important, but grit is fun.
(02:27):
It's like why you train for a marathon.
It's because it'll make something of you, not because
it's a, you know, easy, whateverthat means.
Jim Rohn describes easy as something you can do.
So you can definitely do this business.
And I think that a lot of old folks like me are going to try
and tell you how hard this is. Maybe that's their reality.
(02:50):
But my encouragement for our conversation today and for the
sake of our listeners is let's find an easier path, shall we?
This isn't not that hard. And anything that you need to do
to grow your business is not only something you can do, is
something you might really enjoydoing.
And even the mistakes or the hiccups or the wrong turns turn
(03:10):
into stories or songs or art anddefinitely a lesson.
So let's have some fun with thisfor sure.
That's how we broke your businesses.
Well, Speaking of hard, you grewBenjamin Franklin Plumbing from
0 to $40 million. I mean, how does that happen?
How did that start? And.
Well, I had help, and this is there's a great expression.
(03:32):
My friend Nelmer Merlino says you can have it all as long as
you don't do it all. And I was fortunate enough to
not know very much. So I had to get help through
others. But let me, let me tell you how
that started. So prior to that, my husband and
I had a, a plumbing, heating andsolar company in Park City, UT.
(03:53):
His name is Hot Rod. That's why I married him because
we're nicknames. We'll get you far.
And so Hot Rod and I got marriedand he had a partner named
Richard Yox who died suddenly atage 33.
He literally worked himself intoa health crisis.
He wasn't very healthy and then he just would work, work, work
and and he stressed and stressedkills.
And it was a a really tragic moment for us.
(04:17):
My husband and his friend Yox had been friends since they were
eight years old. And then I did a really dumb
thing and I said, Walt, listen, I'm I'm going to quit my real
job. I had a career in the restaurant
industry. I've had a million jobs, but was
kind of making my way in the restaurant world.
And I quit that job and I went to work with my husband and it
was terrible, absolutely terrible.
(04:39):
We hated on each other. We still have the scars from
those days. I would say, yeah, you know, we
don't have any money. And he would hear, I'm not good
enough. I'm not working hard enough.
And it, it just, it was really arough time for us.
And then I found a mentors. I found my my most significant
(05:00):
financial mentor is a, is a fellow named Frank Blau, who now
is button up against 100 years old.
How about that? Still picking and still bossing
us around. But I started to learn from
people smarter than me. And, and the, the big lesson for
me came from the financial end of things.
Like Frank taught me how to create, use, read, understand
(05:28):
and make decisions off financialreports, the balance sheet, the
profit and loss. And I'd gone to college for this
stuff and I still never learned it or didn't know how to clean
up a messy set of books, which is what most people's books are.
So that was like this life changing, life defining moment
for me was like, how do people not know this?
I raised my prices, I started tomake more money.
(05:50):
Hot Rod and I decided not to work together anymore, which
we'll get into a little bit later, because we just had
different goals and dreams. We're still married.
But you don't, you know, you don't necessarily have to stay
in a business that doesn't suit you.
So we'll get there in just a second.
But money buys options. And as we turned our company
around and got out of debt, we had the wherewithal to make
(06:13):
choices that aligned with what we really, really wanted.
And Danny, somewhere along the line, I just wanted to see if I
had the chops to grow a bigger business.
I thought one and you may have had this feeling before that guy
is running that business. Does that make sense?
(06:34):
I see him looking right. So you're just like looking
around going, OK, I bet I could do that.
I just wanted to see like you have these maybe innate.
It's just a scratch that I thinkyou should pay attention to how
Rod did not have that. How Rod like is going.
Are you kidding me? I don't want to do the employees
I don't want, and I honor and respect that too.
So for for you, for anyone listening, I think what I
(06:59):
learned during this time, and I've kind of made it a life's
goal to keep asking this question is like, what do you
want? What do you want?
Regardless of what anyone else is doing, regardless that you
know of anyone else's hopes and dreams, What do you want?
And are you willing to commit tothat?
So at the time I had this just this itch, like I want to grow a
(07:21):
big business. And I thought the only way I was
going to be able to do that was with my plumber husband.
The two of us could go out there, but he didn't want it.
And so like, that might be whereyou find yourself in, you know,
the position you find yourself in with partners or with family
or, you know, sometimes you're just going in different
directions and doesn't make anybody right or wrongs.
(07:43):
But I, I knew I had this, this drive.
So we sold our company to our employees and I was like, I was
lost, like what do I do? How do I serve?
What's the point? What do I want?
And I just knew I wanted to growa, a company that's like the
only I just thought it looked fun.
And then I did I, you know, I started sharing what I learned.
(08:05):
I do you start with what you know, I started teaching people
how to read a balance sheet and a profit and loss.
I started doing consulting for mom and pop companies.
Here's your asset, here's for your elbow, you know, that kind
of thing. Just what I've learned, I
started to share and as a result, I started to speak.
You saw me on stage at home service freedom and I just I
(08:27):
felt I felt honor bound to sharebecause so many people had
shared with me. Frank was really the beginning
of just a a long line of mentorsand, you know, philosophies that
I could could learn from and absorb.
And then I felt compared to share that and I was doing a
seminar one day and after the seminar, Jim Abrams, who's a
(08:49):
legend in our industry came up to me and he said how would you
like to run the country's largest home service plumbing
company? And I said yes.
Now keep in mind the only company I've been involved in at
this point was Hot Rods Company and we had four trucks like that
was it. But when that happened, it was
(09:10):
aligned with what I wanted. And I said yes, even though I
was absolutely not qualified to say yes to that.
And so Jim Abrams is an investor, and he and his partner
invested in this new concept, Benjamin Franklin, the punctual
plumber. So I didn't do it alone.
You never do anything alone. But what I had the opportunity
(09:32):
to do was learn a lot about business and franchising in a
very short period of time. I mean, I do have the scars to
show. Go for it.
There were some brutal moments, but every day I'm grateful for
that experience because of how much I learned in this condensed
period of time. It was really amazing.
And then I left there like in 2023, not 20/23/20 O3 more than
(10:01):
20 years ago is when that, you know, and that it was just a
point at that organization wherehe had grown big enough I was
going to be required to move, which I didn't want to do.
Here's another thing, you know, as I think of like wisdom from
an old woman kind of thing. Once you know how to sell, once
(10:23):
you understand the mechanics of business, you have a lot more
freedom. So one is establishing enough
money, like enough wherewithal that you can pay the bills, then
you can make better decisions interms of what you want.
And then once you acquire the skills, sales skills,
operational skills, you can do anything.
(10:45):
Like, it really takes a lot of fear away.
Does that make sense? I would say, like the essential
business skill is being able to do a needs assessment.
You know, make friends, do a needs assessment, offer
appropriate options and solutions, ask for the sale,
shut up, say thanks you made a decision, or congratulations you
(11:07):
made a great decision. Here's what happens next.
Like that, that skill set allowsme at any point to just think
I'm going to be fine. Does that make sense to you?
Yeah. Did you go through something
like that? Yes, yeah, No, I mean, I think
(11:28):
you kind of have to when you're trying to start a business,
whatever it may be. And that was that was kind of my
main trouble is when I was starting to be an entrepreneur,
I was trying to start doing dropshipping or affiliate marketing.
And I mean, I didn't know any ofthe mechanics of business at
all. So I think that's where a lot of
people kind of start out where maybe in in this space they're a
technician and they're really good at tacking and they're
(11:50):
like, OK, well, I can make a little bit more money or, you
know, the boss is really annoying or it's my dad or
whatever. And then they actually into it
and kind of like you're saying that there's just, there's just
a lack of knowledge with all of these other areas of business
that actually allow you to grow and step out of being an
employee. So like what, what would some of
(12:10):
those key components be then because you like, or maybe some
of the ones that people get wrong the most?
Well, did you? How did you learn to sell them?
Like what was your journey? Did someone teach you?
Did you read a book? What what was like the I, I may
know how to do this, but unless somebody buys it from me, I'm
not going to make a business outof it.
Is is really the the wall you'regoing to hit at this point?
(12:34):
So what was it that shifted for you?
Yeah. So I've always been an avid
learner and I would say a lot ofit is just watching YouTube
videos and trying to figure thatout if people talking about
sales of marketing of financialsor whatever that may be.
So YouTube videos have been havelike completely saved me.
(12:55):
And also I'd say just learning on the fly because even, I mean,
I think you could watch 100 hours of YouTube videos on sales
and yet still get on a sales call and suck.
So I think a lot of it is just wraps.
And I mean, even up until just ayear or two ago, I feel like I
really still wasn't competent atsales and getting on the phone
(13:16):
and actually being able to closesomeone and be be also even
confident in the service. I feel like that's kind of the
other end of it is that, I mean,why sell something if you're not
totally confident in the servicethat you're providing?
So that's kind of my two cents on it.
That's a really great description of a typical
journey, right? To find something and YouTube is
(13:38):
a great place to learn. There's a lot of crap out there
so you have to weed through, butyou find someone who resonates
with you. Like before I signed on with
that and I've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on personal
development. Just saying.
But before I would sign on with someone now I'd go look at one
of their YouTube clips, I'd follow them, I'd go to one of
(14:01):
their webinars, you know, and see how they interact live, you
know, so you start to get a feelfor someone that you might use,
use their information to help you take the next step.
And, and I think with mentors, mentors are fantastic, but the
best mentorships turned into friendships where we help each
other. It's not that someone's better
or greater than you, It's that we're going to help each other
(14:24):
out. That's I think where you, you
know, relationships are every, everything in life and in
business for sure. So I think if, if I were to,
there's so many things to do when you start a business, One
book I would read or listen to for sure.
If you are, as Danny just said, a technician who's thinking
maybe I should start my own business.
(14:45):
Michael Gerber, the E Myth revisited.
And there's also our E Myth contractor version HVAC
Contractor Co written by Ken Goodrich, which is very specific
to, you know, trades HVAC trays with applicable to to pest and
other homes. He has one for pest control, he
has one for like all the industries.
(15:05):
All right, so think of that, think of what that business
models like. He just kept every iterating the
same information just with a little specificity and has made
a brilliant career out of it. I love Michael Gerber, but that
idea of running creating a business that's systematic.
Now what that does that it helpsyou make deliver.
It helps you deliver on the promises you make in sales.
(15:28):
So you brought got that up right.
That is, it's one thing to be able to sell it, but now how do
I make good on my promise that, you know, this is this is going
to be the best, you know, it's service you've ever had or
whatever you just said, you know, now you got to make good.
So I would say in order of like how it's functionally going to
work until you have a sale, you have no options.
(15:51):
So learn about sales and and drop whatever prejudices you
have about them because if you're not willing to become
good at sales and communication,you should.
You're going to have a heartbreak as a business owner.
There's just everything depends on your ability to communicate
(16:14):
on sale. Just the natural outcome of a
good communication should someone need or want what it is
that you can do. 100%. Find find out people on YouTube
with whom you resonate and starthoning those sales skills now.
So if you're building a business, just make some sales
and you're going to make eggs and you're going to sell at the
wrong price and you're going to sell something to somebody who
(16:38):
you should never have even continued the conversation with.
Like you're going to make some mistakes, but like you said, you
kind of got to work through them.
You cannot learn how to sell or ride a motorcycle or go skiing
or golf without actually skiing or riding motorcycle or golfing
like that. You have to do the the actual
(16:59):
craft and you're going to be terrible at 1st until you get
better. And then you know, you get that.
You hone your skills even now. And I've sold my whole life now.
I made just a rookie mistake theother day in the sales process
that I just thought, oh man, I thought I was over that.
But Oh well, dust yourself off, admit it and then and then move
(17:22):
on. But selling helps.
So in, in, in, in business, the three main KPI, let's talk about
this because I am a numbers and the numbers aspect of it of
business is really my, my expertise.
I know a little about all areas of business, but the financial
(17:42):
area is the one that I feel likeI have something to share here.
That's a voice, you know, that needs to be out there.
So on the financial side of things, and it ties with
everything, the score, the threemain KPIs are key performance
indicators are sales, profits and cash.
Any business, and they come in this order, sales, profits and
(18:06):
cash. So sell, sell, sell, sell, sell.
Get something up on the top lineand you got a little breathing
room, you got a little bit of money to finesse.
Then pay attention to expenses. So sales are offense, managing
expenses is defense. That's how you get
profitability. As you gather profitability and
(18:30):
you want to get profitable as fast as possible because if you
don't, whatever cash you have you're going to use and you're
going to go into debt. That's it.
Like business is not hard. OK, so suppose you did that and
(18:51):
you got into debt. Now you have to sell better at
better prices. Hone your skills, raise your
prices, and then manage those expenses.
Pay attention to what you're spending money on and how your
your money's going. Owners can't take their eye off
this. This is the game, your money.
(19:12):
It's your job to pay attention, even if you have help.
And you're always going to look for help, but your job is to pay
attention to sales. Minus expenses equals a profit.
And if you've gotten into debt, then you need a really big
profit. You need to collect it today in
cash so that your cash goes up. You can use some of that cash to
(19:33):
pay down your debt and the rest of it to fuel your company that.
Yeah, it sounds so simple when you explain that.
I'm like, the older I get, the simpler this appears to me.
But like, you know, let us know if you've got a, a different
take on that because no, it imposes that you're making good
(19:57):
on those promises because if not, you're giving money back,
you're maybe getting sued. You're maybe losing your team
members because they don't like working for you.
So you know things will fall apart if you don't make good on
the promises that you're making in sales, not just your
customers, but to yourself and to your team members and to your
family. Like business is a ally Brown
(20:20):
early in goddess of the of Internet marketing.
She did an easing Once Upon a time before anybody knew what it
was and grew an empire. But she said she said once that
business is the best personal development course you might
take of what it allows you to explore and understand and
(20:42):
develop within yourself. Yeah, no, I've, I've totally
witnessed that myself, especially with the market
moving so fast with there being so much competition, you have to
constantly be growing or you're dying.
So no, that was that was a really great point on, on those
top 3K PIS. And I know you kind of already
explained this already, but I just want to, I almost want to
go deeper, dumb it down. So let's say for example, a home
(21:05):
service business, maybe they're 300K to $1,000,000 a year.
And let's say they're not profitable, they are barely
making it. Maybe they're even potentially
in debt. Is there like a quick fix that
does it? Do you take like one big
commercial client or what? What do you do?
Oh, I would not do that. So funny that you came up with
(21:30):
that. That's no, I wouldn't do that.
Let me tell you why in just a minute, but here's what I would
do. You're probably underpriced.
You're probably underpriced because if you're 300,000 to
1,000,000, probably not paying yourself yet.
All right, maybe your partner isworking for free.
(21:50):
That person can get resentful. Been there, right?
So like you're, you're pulling in some favors, but it gets old
if there isn't some light at theend of the tunnel that we're
going to go places. And you know, Danny, the reality
is, I don't know if there's a more current statistic, but I
mean, I, I heard, I heard Tommy Mello say this the other day.
(22:11):
We'll quote Tommy. He says only 5% of all
businesses get to 1,000,000. That's how many micro businesses
there are. And at 1,000,000 is where you
might start to take some money out of your company and that
kind of thing. So until you're, you know, at a
million and what is that on a monthly base that's, that's
(22:34):
$83,334 rounding to get to $1,000,000.
So like, and, and this is what we tell our franchisees just
like, get there as fast as you can.
Now, you may still not be makinga lot of money, but it's the,
it's the point at which you could is, is, you know, like
(22:54):
that point is a great place to be because you can be profitable
at that in a service business that should allow you to take
some money to pay your team members better.
Like that's a just go like gangbusters to get to that
point. So really my best advice, and
this is what my mentor, Frank Loud told me Once Upon a time,
until you're priced right, you're not going to get there.
(23:17):
So what does that look like? Let's say, let's say you're
considering starting a business of your own.
Let me ask you this question. If you were to start your own
pest control service business and you were to be the owner and
we're just dreaming right now, so no wrong answers, What would
a reasonable compensation for you as the owner, the one
(23:37):
putting your skin on the on the on the, you know, you put your
skin in the game, you're the onewho's going to answer the phones
back everybody up. You know, it's your money, all
of that. What's a reasonable compensation
dollar amount for the owner of apest control company?
I'd say when you're just starting out, it should be
(23:58):
basically minimum wage. You should be paying yourself as
little as possible so that you can build up the business and
reinvest. Practically, that might be what
you have to do, but you're dreaming right now.
What is a reasonable amount to aspire to?
Like, what's fair for a person who deals with insects and
(24:20):
chemicals and protects the health and safety of families?
What's a reasonable compensationfor the owner of one of those
businesses? Say at least $100,000 a year.
And gosh, you could make $100,000 a year working for
somebody else, couldn't you? Yeah.
OK. So shouldn't it be bigger?
(24:42):
Yes. You see where this goes?
OK, let's suppose it's 200. Let's say that that's, you know,
that would be enough to leave mygreat job.
Like it might not happen right away, but we're you know, what
do you want? You don't want to make minimum
wage or you'd make minimum wage,right?
You start your business because you want more.
(25:02):
OK, so as you want 200,000 and Igot to tell you, it could be
500,000, it could be $1,000,000 a year.
And this guy me is never going to criticize a contractor for
making a ton of money because these are the essential services
that we are the ones whose team members keep people safe and
(25:24):
free of disease and all of that.So like whatever, you pick them
and go, OK, let's back it up. Let's go back and engineer that.
So you're starting out for yourself.
And if you said, listen, I wouldlike to make $200,000 this year,
what would I have to build into my selling price?
Now, you may not functionally beable to take that out, but you
(25:46):
could start pricing for it rightout of the gate because do you
see that trap? I'm not going to make any money
so I can charge less than that guy.
If you don't have sales skills, what you're depending on is
charging less to make the sale. And that's a path to poverty.
OK, All right, So what if I, youknow, just like do it on paper
(26:09):
first, just play with it. OK, so if I were to charge 2, or
if I were to want to make $200,000 a year, how much of my
selling price? OK, how much would I have to
charge just to cover my salary? Let's look at this.
So you suppose you have 2000 hours a year.
That comes from 50 weeks a year times 40 hours a week.
(26:31):
Make the math easy for driving or whatever, right?
OK, so 2000 hours a year is whatsomeone who's going to provide,
actually provide the goods and services is going to be able to
work or even the owner. Shouldn't the owner be able to
punch out now and then? Let's just make it 2000 and not
(26:52):
3000. Does that make sense?
Now, if you're running your own business and also running the
calls, that's a lot because there's all sorts of other
things you have to do, plus go and sell and surf so on.
For a really kicking service company, 50% efficiency is
(27:14):
awesome. And so let's say of those 2000
hours a year, you only have 1000of them that could be billable.
Are you following me? Yeah, that's it.
And this makes the math easy, but it's a pretty tight
scenario. OK, so you got 1000 billable
(27:36):
hours a year. You would have to charge $200
per hour just for your salary. And you haven't bought a pencil
or chemicals or a truck or insurance or uniforms or any
marketing. So can you see how far you could
get to a four hundred $500.00 anhour selling price built into
(27:56):
some kind of menu pricing? And if right now you're
listening to that and you're starting to poop your pants, I
will assure you that the companies who've gotten big have
gone through this and decided that they're going to get good
enough at sales, at service, at operations, while they're
(28:20):
charging enough. Because otherwise, how do you
afford to do it? That's what separates those Uber
successful companies from that one or two truck outfit that is
there for 20 years. Now again, if all you want to do
is work in a truck all by yourself and just, I know some
drain cleaners in Southern California, they go surfing in
(28:41):
the morning and then they unclear drains in the afternoon.
They do YouTube videos, they're adorable.
They're living their dream. You can do that.
If you aspire to something that bigger, just figure it out
mathematically, try and take thejudgement or the emotion out of
it and think what would it take to do that?
(29:03):
I would have to charge more if Iwanted to build a business that
involved other people and multiple trucks and different
services, etcetera. How does this sit with you?
No, I, I love the way you explain that and just the, the
principle of figuring out what you want to do and then reverse
engineering that instead of a lot of guys will just see what
(29:25):
other people are charging in themarket and kind of go in between
that. And also I'd, I'd that's that a
lot of people just have limitingbeliefs and oh, I was making 60
KA year at my job. So if I can make 70 KA year as
the owner of my own business, then I'm, I'm totally cool with
that. But I think, I think that would
be a a big part of it too, is they, they need to think bigger,
(29:46):
right? Well, if you want bigger than
then you got to, but you don't have to.
So what is what did Jeff Duden say?
Just I was on that Unemployable isn't a great name for a
entrepreneurial podcast. Unemployable.
That's a great podcast. Jeff's a really great business
builder, very disciplined. I I love him.
(30:07):
So listen, listen. What's the name of his book?
I can't remember. Maybe it's unemployable.
I can't remember. But Jeff Dudan, DUDAN, that's
we, we have him as a mutual buddy.
But now I lost my train of thought because where were we?
On, on, oh, on, on what you wantto do and how you want to to
(30:28):
grow it. You don't.
Oh, he says. And I don't think he made it up,
but he quoted it. Comparison is the thief of joy.
I heard him say that, yeah. Yeah, I don't know who said it
originally, but he said it the other day.
And I love that quote. And it's a So when you go to
seminars, you see Tommy Mello onstage, or Jeff or Victor Rancor,
(30:50):
Lance Bachman or Catherine Elizabeth, or, you know, all
these cool people who are out there doing cool things.
May I remind you that the game is to be the best version of
you. Yes.
You know, and they're all screwed up in some way.
Everybody is not. Everybody has all aspects of
(31:11):
their business and personal lifedialed in.
Who does? No one.
So you know, you're going to getinspiration and information from
these sources. You know that YouTube clips and
going to seminars and reading books, but the implementation is
up to you and you get to decide what it is that you want to be
and do and have. And I think, you know, that's
(31:33):
important to remember. So a podcast like this, I hope
we're stirring up those thoughtsfor you.
You know, like what is it that you really, really want?
One of the things I figured out along the way and this I mean,
you're I'm still figuring this out.
I'm 66. I'm could be your grandmother.
(31:53):
The I really like the zero to 1 moment.
I really like when there's nothing and then there's
something, but then I don't really want to take it to 10 or
I don't, I'm not skilled enough to do it and I'm not so
motivated to learn those skills.So there's something about the
startup, the beginning before wescrewed it up yet that really
(32:16):
appeals to me. So like, I love that experience
with Benjamin Franklin. I loved it with Zoom Drain and
now with Zoom at Zoom Drain, it really came down to do I want to
move to Philadelphia because that's where headquarters is,
and develop my personal skill set so that I could be the
president of a much larger organization.
(32:38):
And I just went, no, it's OK. Like this point, let's find
someone else who can do it better than me.
And that gives me a lot of joy and freedom.
And so like, that isn't every person's decision, but that's
what's feeling right for me. And so that's the encouragement
is to keep looking. No one is senior to you when it
(33:00):
comes to deciding who it is you want to be and the things that
you want to have and you know what you want to do.
Tommy Miller talks about being abillionaire.
And I have no interest in that. That looks like a lot of phone
calls and responsibilities. I mean, you have to be like, you
have to be interested in what the game of being a billionaire
(33:23):
would be. And it just doesn't ring a bell
for me. How have a millionaire?
Sounds sterile, right? So like, you get to decide.
You get to decide these things. And hopefully we're encouraging
you along those lines. Yeah, definitely.
No, I think that's honestly the best and most practical advice
to any business owner because like you mentioned that, I mean,
(33:46):
you see the Tommy Mellows of theworld and it's just like, well,
you know, I've been in it for 20years and I'm, you know, barely
at $1,000,000. So, you know, Tommy who's been
in it for 20 years or maybe a little bit less than that, he's
at like 200 or $300 million. So you, like you said, you can't
compare. You just have to be on your own
path, be your best version of yourself because everyone has
(34:07):
their flaws. And yeah, I really like that.
And something else I want to mention, because you started
going in a Zoom Drain, I want you to tell me the story of Zoom
Drain and how you guys grew thatso quickly and what what was
what made it so successful? But you just triggered something
for me that I don't want to miss.
So I'm going to tell you this first.
OK, So I was at, gosh, the Victor Rankers presentation and
(34:29):
right behind me was Wyatt Hapworth.
Now, Wyatt is a legend. He and his family business has
grown to 120 million in sales inSalt Lake City, and they have
partnerships with about 30 othercompanies.
And the whole shooting match is now doing over a half a billion
(34:50):
in sales. And I met him and I was kind of
starstruck. And we hit it off.
And like, often you're going to hear from a mentor, He said,
we'll read this book. This is a book I've been
recommending a lot. And this book is called Finish
Big by Bo Bertlingham, who's a legend in in small business.
Finish Big is about how you're going to exit your company and
(35:12):
the thought, the thesis of this book is that you should think
about that. You could think about that on
day one and you can change your mind, but could you build a
company that would allow you to exit because you will die and
you can't take it with you? Like that's the like you're,
you're always going to exit yourbusiness.
Consider that as you're growing your business.
(35:33):
No, the way out before you go in.
I love the advice. The book's fantastic, but listen
to Wyatt's story. You know, you brought up you
could be at $1,000,000 for 20 years and most companies will be
a million or less for their entire life cycle.
By far and away the most. So anyway, Wyatt, any hour,
(35:55):
plumbing, HVAC and electrical, they're like 50 years old.
This company, it was Wyatt's granddad and then his dad and
Wyatt had been at the helm for 20 years of the 50 years, OK,
and they were at two and a half,$1,000,000 in sales.
So it wasn't that Wyatt came in and instantly everything took
(36:17):
off, But what happened is 20 years in, Wyatt starts thinking
about what he really, really wants and decides that now's the
time. And he has this this young man
who just been working with him one week.
This is a friend of mine, DustinVan Orman, who works with him.
He's amazing. Then he walks into the office
(36:37):
and Wyatt says, I think we can do better.
And Dustin's like, OK, I'm in. And they they take what they
call the good to great road tripso that a few of them got in the
truck. There's only 5 technicians at
this point in this company come of them get in the truck and
they go and visit some cool shops.
They do a road trip. But the rule was the only thing
that they could listen to while they were driving was the book
(36:58):
Good to Great by Jim Collins, another classic.
And they started talking about what they saw at these companies
and what did they really want? They just had this like focused
moment that really became the catalyst for them changing
everything. So to your point, no matter how
long you've been at where you are, the point of power is now.
(37:19):
Even when I look at financials, I'm, I rarely look backwards.
I'm always like, OK, now and forward, now and forward because
the point of power is now. The opportunity is what lies
ahead. But the past is done.
OK, you can learn whatever, but don't dwell there and certainly
don't define yourself by the past or talk about it because
(37:42):
you're just recreating it. So like that point of power is
here and you decide and you takesome aligned action for what you
want that next step to be. That's what's really critical.
Now let me tell, I'll tell you alittle bit about about Zoom
drain. I love Zoom drain.
I love drain cleaning. I love a dirty job.
So I like that. So Jim Cranetti was one of my
(38:06):
clients back in the day when I was doing the financial
consulting. Here's your asset, here's your
elbow, you know, putting some simple financial systems in
place. Here's one of my clients, and
he's a former military guy, an Air Force officer, very high
standards. Absolutely love Jim Cranetti and
then my best friend Al Levy. And if y'all don't know Al Levy,
(38:29):
go to 7 Power contractor #7 Power contractor.com and meet
Al. Al is the of us and Al and I did
I. Had him on the show like 6
months. Ago.
That's right, you said. Yeah, isn't he the best?
Oh, he's awesome. Yeah.
I talked to him at a home service, Freedom too.
I spent maybe 20-30 minutes withhim.
He's just, I mean, he's such a good person and he's so
(38:49):
knowledgeable and the, the way he thinks he's awesome.
He's awesome. Al is like the gold standard.
We always wish Al were wrong once in a while.
He never is. Just do what Al tells you to do.
So anyway, Al and I had become friends.
I, you know, he and I've been friends for a while that he
start, he sells his company. He's like, he just does what he
(39:12):
does because he loves you. Like, that's why Al is
motivated. He works with Tommy fairly
exclusively now. They're good buddies.
But back in the day, he and I were both consulting.
He'd do some consulting and would refer each other because I
knew the financial piece and he was great at operations,
marketing, sales. He would take those aspects and
we would work with the same clients over and over again.
(39:34):
And then we also decided to helpeach other.
So once a year would have like alittle retreat and talk about
our own goals and dreams and what we wanted to have happen.
And as we were talking, he said,well, I still have an itch to
scratch. I wanted to be an investor.
And I also want to pass on the information that I've created,
you know, the systems that I've created.
So I have those things yet to do.
(39:55):
And I said, well, I love that you want to be an investor.
What I'd like to do is franchiseagain.
I really love, learn to love thefranchising model at Benjamin
Franklin. I wanted to do it again.
I wanted to be an owner this time, so I was.
You know, toying with that idea and at that point alls phone
lights up and it's Jim Carniti and he says I'm thinking about
(40:19):
franchising Zoom Drain and wanted to know if you would
help. It was absolute kismet.
And so we didn't talk to anybodyelse.
We didn't look elsewhere. And then Al and his infinite
wisdom says, OK, that's fine, but we're going to work on your
shop 1st and make sure we're ready to go.
So that was the next two years. And that's just Al is
(40:41):
methodical. He's a tree planter.
You know, he wants to get the systems dialed in.
And so we did. And that was 10 years ago.
And we're not the fastest growing franchise out there.
I don't know that I would aspireto be that.
And there's always things you could do different and better.
I mean, if you want to do great things, get prepared to, Brené
Brown says. If you dream big and dare
(41:02):
greatly, you won't just fail. You will fly, SWAT fail.
You will fail hard. Yeah.
And so you got to decide do you want that?
But if you do, and if you are OKwith picking yourself back up
and learning from that and goinglike that's just the it's just
(41:23):
the Annie up to do great things is that you're going to fail
hard yelling is it fail, fail hard, Meaning it's you're the
grounds it's going to hurt. But it's not that hard to get
back up again. Really it isn't.
It's just like a phone call, an apology.
I mean, unless you kill a man and it can happen in our
(41:45):
industry, right? Trucks are dangerous businesses.
The most, the most dangerous thing you have on the track is
the truck. Now I can head driving the
truck, right? We all like, we're all at risk
in these businesses. And I don't want to downplay the
seriousness of a bad day, but ifyou didn't kill a man today,
(42:05):
there's really nothing you can'trecover with.
You know, some humility and vulnerability and being willing
to suck it up and try again or make the relationship better,
you know, so those are all partsof it.
But in any event, we set off on this journey and it's been, you
know, just a trip. I love drain cleaning more than
(42:29):
ever. But I'll tell you what's dawning
on me is we have a really solid system.
Let's talk franchising for a minute because there's a lot of
franchises in your in your audience, even with the very
best system and zoom drains is so solid.
It's very simple clearing drainsis not infinitely complicated.
(42:51):
And I'd say that with some humility, I don't clear drain.
So the fine men and women in this world to do, I have so much
respect for you, but my job is to set up a system where you can
thrive and you can do well and you can be honored and respected
for the work that you do and make really great money.
But as you, you know, take on a franchise or you start a
(43:15):
business, if you have a really great franchise, it's probably
not the systems and procedures that are going to get in the way
of your success. It's going to be all about the
personal development, the grit that it takes to keep showing
up, the sales skills and communication skills with your
(43:35):
teammates. You got to grow those, you know
what I mean? It's not just a matter of
reading the manual and clearing the drain or doing the
marketing. It's who you are going to become
as the owner of a business that will determine the success of
the business by your own yardstick.
Like you'll be happier as you, you know, go within and find
(43:58):
those areas that you need to work on.
You're going to fail every day, but that piece of it is is so
important. And so one of the things we have
at Zoom drain is our values. But the the way to live the
values isn't just to to read them or understand them is to be
willing to go inside and become the best version of you.
I think that personal development is just a critical
(44:22):
element of living a happy life as well as being a successful
business owner. Does that make sense?
Like it's not totally does now our values at Zoom drain the the
mnemonic is grow, GROW grit, responsibility, ownership and
willingness is really all about leaning in, showing up every
(44:43):
day. And what keeps you from doing
that? What keeps you from going into
the office or riding along on the truck or learning things
that make you feel uncomfortableis really the relationship that
you have with yourself. And that's, you know, that's
something that the older I get, the more important I realize
that is like it's not just a matter of getting the road map,
(45:05):
it's that you got to travel thatpath if what you want is on the
other other end of the road. Like that's that's the piece
that I think you want to look long and hard at if you're going
to embrace the journey of entrepreneurism franchise, you
know, just that that that's the path. 100% as as we begin to
(45:29):
wrap up here, Ellen, I want to ask you, no, I mean, if you have
like an extra 30 minutes, we could keep going, but we're
just. I don't know if our dear
listeners have that much time, so yeah, yeah. 10 more minutes.
We'll make a Part 2. What do you say?
Yeah, I think that's done to do that.
Happy to happy to come back. Yeah, No, I'd love to have you
(45:50):
back. So, So one thing I wanted to ask
you kind of adjacent to that of growing as a as a person, not
just the business owner, is whatsomething you mentioned at the
beginning or early in the podcast is that you've gone
through a lot of brutal moments.You specifically use that term
brutal moments. So what were some of the brutal
moments that you went through and how did you get through
(46:11):
them? I think when, when you
disappoint someone, I think is when it gets a brutal like
we're, we're whatever the setup was.
And this can happen in a sale ofany kind that you make a you
make a promise and you see the picture and it doesn't come out
to look like that. I mean, that's why the word
responsibility is one of our values.
If it's in my hula hoop, I now own it.
(46:35):
And if it's a relationship that needs to be mended, then it's my
job to do it or live with a fractured relationship.
You know, some of those things happen in your life and
sometimes it's OK and other times it breaks your heart.
You know, the, the, the, that people will come and go in your
life. And that's where I think long
term lifelong friends are so, soimportant.
(46:58):
But there will be times where you disappoint.
I think one of the things as a leader, that one of your jobs as
a leader is to take the arrows. Some has to just stand in the
arrows and that if you're the owner, it's always you and it's
what you signed on for. But that that can hurt.
(47:19):
Is it hard? Yeah.
But it's also just, again, that's where the adventure lies,
is doing things that you might not be ready for, that you could
do better next time. You know, that's how it becomes
this lifelong personal development journey.
So I would say, you know, those relationships that becomes the
(47:39):
brutal part or the money thing is brutal.
Like when you're out of money, it is brutal and people have a
misunderstanding that somehow money is what makes you.
I think there's a lot of stinking thinking around money,
that if I were a really good person, I wouldn't be bothered
with the mundane aspects of thisworld, like having to deal with
(48:04):
money, that the money would justcome, that everything would be
fine. But what I found is that the
lack of money causes people to drop their integrity.
So a good person might do something really bad when they
run out of funds. It's the whole premise behind
the book Les Miserables by Victor Hugo is he's broke, and
(48:27):
so he steals a loaf of bread. This isn't a man who would go
about stealing. He didn't have any money, and
that's what happened. So you might not pay your
payroll taxes or you might not go back and fix that customer's
problem because damn it, they didn't pay you enough in the 1st
place. And you see what I'm saying?
So the lack of money, an abundance of money, can allow
(48:48):
you to maintain your standards in a way that no money puts you
at risk. And I would say then some of the
brutal times in my life is when,you know, I don't know where
payroll is going to come from orI don't know.
And that's why it was so important early on to get priced
right and to figure that out. So that really became the
mission of my life, is that if you're going to do this, you
(49:12):
deserve to make a lot of money. Your team deserves it.
And you're going to need it to survive the inevitable tough
time that you don't even know iscoming, right.
That money. Money helps when it comes.
That Zig Ziglar says money isn'teverything, but it's right up
there with oxygen on the Gotta Have It meter.
Yeah, right. So that's, I think that's why
(49:34):
that area of business I can helpwith, even though there's a lot
more to learn about life and business.
But that piece. And if you want to leave this
for you, our dear listener, ellenroar.com, ELLENROHR, that's
me.com. I give away a copy of Where did
the money go on my site. You put your name and e-mail
address and then you'll get it via, you'll get APDF via your
(49:58):
e-mail. And if you're starting a
business or you want to grow yours, no bad thing comes from
reading that book and and sharing it with the people you
love. So.
Awesome. Well, cool, you beat me to it.
I was actually going to give youa chance to promote.
So cool that definitely make sure to go by.
If you're interested in Servicetitan, I've had my friend
Max here over my shoulder as a brand ambassador for
(50:21):
Servicetitan. Servicetitan is appropriate.
If you're over the hump of about3 trucks and you really want to
grow, Servicetitan can be a terrific ally for you.
So check out servicetitan.com aswell.
Yeah, definitely Servicetitan runs or that they own field
routes, which is. Field routes is the one even
more appropriate. If you're a a pest control
(50:43):
professional, Field routes mightbe the the the way for you to to
explore great. No, so that there's tons of CRMS
in the space and it seems like kind of the default and what a
lot of people like is, is field routes and it used to, it
started out as pest routes. So it's as kind of that pest
control background too. And one thing I, I did want to
ask you before we close, Ellen, and what would I like to ask all
(51:05):
my guests is what is your message to the home service
owners or just people in the home service space out there?
What do you want to tell them? What do you think they need to
know? Oh, you're in the best place
ever right now. Best place ever.
I'm like, I am so delighted at the opportunities that are
available for whatever you want to do.
(51:25):
Home services is going to be positively impacted by AIAI is
going to make your life so much easier.
But at some point somebody has to show up at your customer's
home or their place of business and say how you doing.
And that is a really good place to be right now.
So you're in a good spot. Awesome, I agree and also where
(51:46):
can people find you on social media to follow you?
Ellen Rohr, just search Ellen Rohr or if you go to YouTube,
Ellen Rohr and you'll see a bunch of my videos come up at
ELLENROHR is my handle. Thanks, and thanks for all you
do, Danny. You're inspiring, inspiring to
me. I love what you're doing for the
industry. Thank you so much.
Yeah, no, thank you for your time here, Ellen and everyone
(52:08):
make sure to go follow Ellen across all the platforms.
She is, you know, one of the most well known people in home
services, especially in regards to finances and making sure
you're profitable. Your KP is all the stuff that
we've talked about on the show. And yeah, we'll probably have to
do a Part 2 on this because I, Ifeel like we're just scratching
the surface with a lot of these things.
And in 40 years, that's what people are going to say about
(52:30):
you, too, Danny. Yeah.
No, I appreciate that. Thank you.
All right. Thanks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you for coming on, Ellen.
It's been a blast.
Host
Danny Leibrandt
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