Ep. #169: Paul Garmirian Gourmet Series 25th Anniversary Belicoso (w/ Trois Rivières Agricole Rum 13 Year K+L Exclusive, Plume vs. Mold Redux, PG & TR Histories & The Evil Mickey Mouse and Avoiding Cigar Scams)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gizmo (02:47):
Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by
Fabrica 5. It's so good to haveyou here. It's a leisure and
lifestyle podcast founded on ourlove of premium cigars, as well
as whiskey travel, food, work,and whatever else we feel like
getting into. My name is Gizmo.Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster,
Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, andBam Bam.
And I plan us to smoke a cigar,drink some rum, talk about life,

(03:07):
and of course, have some laughs.So take this as your 100 69th
official invitation to join usand become a card carrying
lounge lizard. It is here once aweek. We're gonna smoke a New
World Cigar tonight, share ourthoughts on it, and give you our
formal lizard rate. We findourselves perplexed by the
flavor notes in this cigar.
We explore the rich histories ofboth pairings in detail, and we

(03:28):
revisit the plume versusmultibate, all among a variety
of other things for the next 2hours. So sit back, get your
favorite drink, light up a cigarand enjoy, as we pair 13 year
old K and L exclusive ToitRiviera's single barrel Agricole
rum with the Paul Garmiriangourmet series 25th anniversary
in Belicoso. Dominican Bellicosotonight on the pod. This is the

(03:49):
Paul Garmirian Gourmet Series25th anniversary in Bellicoso,
and it's a 52 ring gauge cigarby 6 and 1 quarter inches long.
And, boys, I had never heard ofPaul Garmirion.
I know that Rooster's had thembefore.

Bam Bam (04:04):
In the seventies. In the seventies.

Gizmo (04:06):
But I I was so intrigued by this story, and I can't wait
to talk about this guy tonight.This is going to be I think this
is gonna be a real surprise anda treat for us.

Bam Bam (04:15):
You know, honestly, I saw the band, and I just half
looked at it. I thought it said25¢ at the bottom, not 25th.

Gizmo (04:24):
What was your comment on the bands, senator?

Senator (04:26):
The band looks like a 12 year old made it with an
inkjet printer. I mean, this is

Bam Bam (04:30):
It looks like a 711 cigar.

Senator (04:32):
Elementary of a band as I've seen. I the secondary band
is the worst one. This lookslike a Microsoft Word template.

Bam Bam (04:37):
That's what I'm saying. I'm

Rooster (04:38):
so sorry. Band is is it's very simple, but the the
the primary band is not I mean,it's okay.

Senator (04:44):
It's fine. It's okay.

Bam Bam (04:46):
The aroma on the wrapper is delicious, I have to
admit.

Gizmo (04:50):
It is. You know what? Honestly, the foot smells Cuban
to me.

Bam Bam (04:53):
I I like

Senator (04:54):
foot, I'm getting a ton of barnyard. Barnyard.

Bam Bam (04:57):
Oh, yeah. Which I I kinda like.

Senator (04:58):
Like, not the cleanest barn. The wrapper's kinda

Pagoda (05:01):
just better.

Gizmo (05:02):
Yeah. The wrapper's

Senator (05:02):
way better.

Gizmo (05:04):
The wrapper's really nice too. It's oily, dark.

Bam Bam (05:06):
Yeah. I've never heard of this cigar. I've never had
it.

Gizmo (05:10):
Well, here we are tonight, boys.

Bam Bam (05:12):
Alright.

Rooster (05:12):
These have been around for a while.

Gizmo (05:14):
Yeah. Long time. Yeah. Yeah. Forties, fifties.
Let's cut this thing, boys.

Senator (05:18):
Twenties, forties. Super got

Gizmo (05:20):
a cold draw. And the wrapper.

Bam Bam (05:23):
Will you set yourself up for that one?

Gizmo (05:28):
Wide open. Draws great.

Senator (05:30):
Jeez. Really open.

Bam Bam (05:31):
A little too too open. Pretty nice cold draw. Sweet.
Prune. Getting prune.

Gizmo (05:38):
I'm getting almost like a hint of cream on the cold draw.

Chef Ricky (05:44):
Wow. Like,

Gizmo (05:44):
actually Like a lactic type.

Bam Bam (05:46):
You do it. It's like raspberry for me.

Senator (05:49):
Pico, did you take off enough of the, on the cigar?

Bam Bam (05:52):
Can I see?

Gizmo (05:52):
Holy smokes. Straight.

Pagoda (05:54):
No. I I took a little You ruined the cigar.

Senator (05:57):
Look at the comparison.

Pagoda (05:58):
I I took a little bit off, and then I took a little
bit additional off.

Bam Bam (06:01):
He's gonna start Yeah. Humidity lights.

Pagoda (06:03):
No. I just wanted to make sure there was enough smoke
out for today.

Bam Bam (06:08):
Holy cow.

Chef Ricky (06:09):
This is why he needs to be cut.

Bam Bam (06:11):
I can't recognize it as a beer man now.

Gizmo (06:15):
So I love the cold draw.

Bam Bam (06:16):
I do too. The longer you go, the more you get more
and more razz it develops into araspberry for me.

Rooster (06:21):
Can you do a retrohale on the cold

Bam Bam (06:23):
run? No. I need smoke for that.

Gizmo (06:26):
Speaking of smoke, boys, let's light this thing.

Rooster (06:29):
The Paul So better.

Gizmo (06:30):
Garmirian 25th anniversary in Belicoso. Again,
it's from the DominicanRepublic. 52 ring gauge cigar by
6 and 1 quarter inches long. Thedebut of Paul Garmirian on the
podcast tonight. This specificcigar, like I said, we'll go
through the story.
This specific cigar was releasedin September 2024. Only 200

(06:55):
boxes were made available of 20cigars. 4,000 total cigars of
this Vitola. There are 2 otherswe'll talk about. And, of
course, there are a bunch ofother Paul Garmirian cigars you
can find.
And, he has a really intriguingstory, so stay tuned for that.

Bam Bam (07:11):
Did you tell us how much the cigar was?

Gizmo (07:14):
So this cigar is right around $25.

Senator (07:18):
Holy cow.

Chef Ricky (07:19):
That's expensive. Is it servicing a charity

Bam Bam (07:21):
or something?

Gizmo (07:24):
Good. Well, I think the idea is that it's boutique. And
what I love about Paul is he heis a Cuban cigar fanatic. And
like you do when you have to buya cigar from Cuba, a box of
cigars, you have to let themrest. He ages his tobacco.
They roll them. They box them,and then he'll age them for long

(07:45):
periods of time before release.

Chef Ricky (07:46):
Mhmm.

Gizmo (07:47):
So I believe these cigars or this tobacco was harvested in
2015 ish, and they didn't comeout for almost 10 years. So
quite a bit of age on these.

Bam Bam (07:56):
This is good off the leg. Mhmm.

Senator (08:00):
And so you're saying when this first came out, there
were only 200 boxes?

Gizmo (08:03):
This cigar this Vitola, there were only 200 boxes
available, 20 cigars each. 4000total cigars came out in
September of 24, so only 5 or 6months ago.

Rooster (08:13):
Are you sure on that? Yeah. This particular patola,
only 200 boxes were made?Correct.

Gizmo (08:19):
That's so little. Really? Yep. That's bizarre. Released in
September 24.
There are two other sizes inthis line, the PG 25th
connoisseur and the PG 25thshort robusto. Both were
released in different quantitiesat different times. And like I
said, we'll go through that in alittle bit. So there are 3 sizes
in this line.

Pagoda (08:39):
But are are they, like do they sell everywhere or it's
only coming out from 1 store orthe No.

Gizmo (08:44):
So he has I believe he has 200 retailers worldwide. He
is he does not sell direct. Heonly sells through, you know,
authorized dealers.

Bam Bam (08:52):
So one box per week?

Pagoda (08:53):
One box per

Bam Bam (08:54):
week. Effectively. Amazing. Yeah.

Pagoda (08:58):
But this this is probably out of interest. Right?
It seems like a

Bam Bam (09:00):
Not a good business model.

Rooster (09:02):
They do make other Vitollas. It's not just this.

Gizmo (09:04):
Yeah. They have a lot of cigars, and they're

Bam Bam (09:06):
Get it.

Gizmo (09:06):
And he's selling a lot of cigars.

Senator (09:07):
So what what is selling? Because clearly, it's
not this if there's only 200boxes of these.

Gizmo (09:11):
There's a bunch of other wines.

Rooster (09:12):
Make a gourmet series.

Gizmo (09:13):
Yeah. The gourmet series. Good.

Bam Bam (09:15):
It's for the chef.

Pagoda (09:16):
Oh, you go here. You go chef excited over there.

Senator (09:18):
This is the gourmet series.

Rooster (09:20):
Yeah. But this is the 25th anniversary, so they have
regular gourmet series as well.

Gizmo (09:24):
They have they have 4 different kinds of gourmet
series, the gourmet series, theoriginal blend, gourmet series
2, gourmet series 3, 30thanniversary. They have a Reserva
exclusive. They have a 25thanniversary that we have in our
hand right now, 20th, 15thanniversary, Soiree, Maduro,
artists and selection, artistsand passion. And like I said,

(09:46):
what I love about what they dohere is you can go on their
website right now and andpurchase cigars that were rolled
in 1996. Wow.
Five packs, 10 packs.

Bam Bam (09:58):
And at an elevated price or standard standard?

Gizmo (10:01):
So a single a single, of the PG celebration roll of the
1996 is $33.90. It never sold.That's what the That's right.

Bam Bam (10:09):
But there's also the whole question in this industry
about how do you validate that?How do you know that's true?

Gizmo (10:16):
Well, you have to trust where you're getting them from,
and this guy is very wellconnected. And I'm sure. His
cigars are rolled at, Yeah.

Bam Bam (10:21):
Yeah.

Gizmo (10:22):
Tabaclar Dominicanas. Apparently, this guy has a PhD.
Yeah. Right? He's a doctor.

Bam Bam (10:27):
Yeah. But we question

Pagoda (10:28):
in what? Cigars. Oh, really?

Bam Bam (10:31):
Is that a thing? You know, we question Opus in their
aging program. Are they reallyaging their material that we
don't know? Right?

Rooster (10:42):
Yeah. There's lots of guys who aid cigars and
Tupperware and then sell them insingles. Correct. You know, who
knows?

Chef Ricky (10:49):
Many victims.

Rooster (10:50):
We'll talk about that a little bit too.

Bam Bam (10:51):
Many victims down that road.

Gizmo (10:53):
So, boys, what are you getting on the light of the p g
20 I'm

Rooster (10:56):
getting a lot of pepper right now.

Pagoda (10:59):
Yeah? I'm

Rooster (10:59):
getting some, yeah, getting some black pepper, white
pepper. It's peppery. Spicy.

Senator (11:05):
I do get a little pepper.

Chef Ricky (11:06):
I got a little pepper, but I am getting some
dried fruit here. I'm getting alittle bit on the front followed
by some pepper on the back of myon my palate.

Bam Bam (11:14):
The retrohale is a little fruity, but there's a
good amount of cocoa for me.Mhmm. The aroma on the foot,
that deep barnyard kinda wentto, like, a savory thing for me.
It's very smooth. It's it'spleasant.
The traditional draw I thinkyou're right. Just a touch of
white pepper maybe and driedapple. So you're more than a
touch of apple there.

Senator (11:35):
It's more than a touch of pepper. Smell the burn line,
and your nose, it's like youjust smell the ton of black
pepper.

Bam Bam (11:40):
I like that.

Senator (11:41):
You see what I'm saying?

Gizmo (11:43):
I did get me. Yeah.

Senator (11:44):
And it's really tough

Rooster (11:45):
for me.

Bam Bam (11:45):
Like the burn line, man.

Gizmo (11:47):
It does smell good. Yeah. Take it. It smells good, but
then when you come in and takeit

Senator (11:51):
in, you get a lot of pepper, like, in your nose.

Rooster (11:53):
I imagine that's gonna go away.

Chef Ricky (11:55):
I'm getting a a little, on the on the burn line,
I'm getting a little blackpepper and also a funk from,
like, a brie, like, that ammoniafunk you would get from a from a
triple cream cheese or somethingor from a rind.

Bam Bam (12:09):
Yeah. Not

Senator (12:11):
a double cream from a triple cream.

Chef Ricky (12:13):
Triple cream, man. Horse.

Bam Bam (12:14):
Or a pair of horse foot. This is I'm I'm enjoying
this. Yeah. I can't say therethere's anything wrong with it
right now.

Gizmo (12:25):
Yeah. It's it's it's different. I I I find it to be a
little savory like you said. I'mgetting a little bit salty.
Yeah.
I'm I'm tasting some pepper. Ithink it's black pepper I would
say is closest to. On theretrohale, I'm getting a unique
fruit. I don't know

Chef Ricky (12:41):
what it is. Yeah.

Bam Bam (12:42):
It's sweet.

Gizmo (12:42):
Did you say apple?

Bam Bam (12:43):
I got, like, a dry apple.

Chef Ricky (12:44):
I'm calling out dried apple. I thought it was
really nice.

Bam Bam (12:47):
Accurate. If you have sometimes you have, like, dried
apple, it there's a littlefunkiness to that because it's
it's sliced longer. When theydry it, it kinda curls around.

Gizmo (12:56):
You mean mold? No.

Bam Bam (12:59):
But, when you have dried apple,

Chef Ricky (13:01):
it's That's that's just

Bam Bam (13:02):
There's this a little sweetness, and it's a little
funky, almost like a like acream that's about to go bad,
which I happen to like incertain foods. You mean

Rooster (13:10):
like a dehydrated apple?

Bam Bam (13:11):
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That's what I'm getting
here.

Chef Ricky (13:14):
Yeah. I think on on longer drawers on longer draws
on this cigar, you're morelikely to get some more
developed flavors. Got somecedar coming through now.

Rooster (13:24):
To me, this cigar kind of resembles, like, some of the
Davidoff's that we have had inthe past. Maybe the Nicaraguan
or the Yamas maybe the Yamasaseries.

Bam Bam (13:33):
Yeah. Not the Nicaraguan.

Rooster (13:35):
Yeah. Yamasa, I think, maybe

Gizmo (13:37):
is closer. Yeah.

Rooster (13:38):
It has that mushroomy note.

Chef Ricky (13:40):
What Yeah.

Bam Bam (13:41):
That's that funkiness that I'm trying to put my finger
on.

Chef Ricky (13:43):
Yeah. So funny you said I've lost all dried fruit,
and I'm now in umami mushroom.

Bam Bam (13:48):
It's nice. Earth. It's a little different.

Gizmo (13:49):
Yeah. It's satisfying, though. It's, like, intriguing
and satisfying.

Chef Ricky (13:54):
It's weird to be getting so much out of something
that we've been smoking for sucha short period.

Bam Bam (13:59):
When was the last time, Rooster, you've had this? You
said you said you had this.

Rooster (14:02):
Oh, yeah. Years? 19 twenties, like you said.

Gizmo (14:07):
No. Probably around late 90 into it now. Correct that.

Rooster (14:10):
Late late nineties, I would say. 98, 99.

Bam Bam (14:13):
Okay. And how do you compare the 2?

Rooster (14:17):
This is totally different. This is a diff
completely a different blend.They used to be very mild.

Bam Bam (14:22):
It's to

Rooster (14:23):
be mild to medium, more like a like a Davidoff Grand Cru
or the, you know, those milderavo series, initial avos.

Bam Bam (14:31):
Would you guys say that this is firmly medium?

Gizmo (14:34):
I would say so right now.

Senator (14:35):
Yeah. They're medium.

Gizmo (14:36):
Yeah. That's fair. I I am I am so intrigued by this cigar
right now. There's so much thatwe're talking about here that I
I don't ever recall mentioningon the pod, mushroom Mhmm. Dried
apple.
Some of the notes here, I I justmy brain is, like, totally
tweaked by it. I think we

Rooster (14:53):
have gotten a mushroom note on another cigar.

Chef Ricky (14:56):
I I wanna say it was the the partagus 3. Maduro 3?
The Maduro 3, I think, gave ussome savory mushroom notes,
probably. Might have been thatone.

Bam Bam (15:07):
Yeah. It could have been.

Chef Ricky (15:09):
Yeah. Going back to this cigar, though, it's it
completely dried out on me, andit's giving me super like, not
in a bad way. It's just I'm notgetting any more dried fruit.

Gizmo (15:17):
Senator, what are you thinking? I'm confused

Senator (15:19):
by this cigar. I'm I'm not sure where I'm gonna fall.
Like, I don't know.

Gizmo (15:25):
Ask a quick question? Sorry to interrupt. Do you think
our palates have been ruined bythat my father we did 2 weeks
ago? They're still ruined. TheCigar of

Rooster (15:31):
the Year Forever. Forever.

Gizmo (15:32):
Do you think that, like, maybe we have to just quit?
Like, is everything wrong now?

Bam Bam (15:36):
I need to talk. I think

Senator (15:37):
we need some Ayahuasca or something.

Gizmo (15:39):
I'm sorry, senator. I'm just

Bam Bam (15:40):
sitting in a dark room for a while. Exactly.

Chef Ricky (15:42):
Some CBT therapy.

Senator (15:46):
Yeah. But, no, I'm just very confused by this because I
had expected that this wouldlean sweeter in flavor profile,
and then the notes have beenmore earthy and savory, and so
I've been surprised by that. Thepepper also really threw me. I
wasn't expecting that, at leastbased on the cold draw. So I
just don't really yet know thatI can say I understand what this

(16:09):
is trying to be.
And if this stays as dry andearthy as some of the notes I've
gotten, I'm I'm this is probablynot gonna be for me. If this
gets back to some of the sweeternotes that I got a little bit of
when we started smoking this,I'll be happier. So for me, the
jury is

Bam Bam (16:27):
very much out. I doubt it's gonna get sweet again. Are
you still getting pepper?

Senator (16:30):
It subsided, but the pepper was so strong. It's like
it still lingers a little bit onmy palate. Like, I really wish
there was none of that pepper.

Bam Bam (16:38):
There's definitely a salt and pepper thing happening.

Rooster (16:40):
Absolutely. It's

Bam Bam (16:41):
kind of become that for me. And that savoriness, it's
almost become like an onion typeof background. I don't know.
It's something in that familyfor me, which I actually don't
mind from time to time. I rarelyget that in a cigar, but it's
happened.

Chef Ricky (16:55):
You you're a 100% right. Spring day, walking in
your backyard, and you got wildonions popping up out of the
grass. Right?

Bam Bam (17:01):
And

Chef Ricky (17:01):
you break and you pop those out. That's exactly
what this is. Exactly what thisis.

Gizmo (17:05):
Senator, I think we should leave them here. I'll
leave the mic shut. I thinkthey're gonna be in

Senator (17:08):
a good dark room.

Bam Bam (17:10):
I mean, I

Pagoda (17:11):
lost I just came out of a dark room, motherfucker.
That's it. We got 2 farmers outhere.

Gizmo (17:16):
Right? I don't know what the hell

Bam Bam (17:17):
is going on. Wait a minute.

Rooster (17:19):
Are you guys growing onions in your backyard? Yards?

Chef Ricky (17:22):
No. But there there's wild onions popping up
all over your yards. They pop upas weeds.

Gizmo (17:25):
You'll see you'll

Rooster (17:26):
see them. Dandelions. I don't

Bam Bam (17:28):
No. No.

Gizmo (17:29):
Onions? That's a hell of a note there, Bam. I'm impressed
again.

Pagoda (17:32):
But that's awesome.

Gizmo (17:34):
No. You're not. That's what I'm I'm I'm impressed. This
is a really different cigar.

Chef Ricky (17:39):
I'm I'm curious to hear what Pagoda's getting
because my theory is as we allespecially because we all kind
of cut this properly

Gizmo (17:48):
as as opposed to pagoda.

Bam Bam (17:49):
No. So, pagoda,

Pagoda (17:51):
it's not that bad.

Bam Bam (17:52):
That that

Pagoda (17:53):
It's on the curve.

Bam Bam (17:54):
You created the Lincoln Tunnel there. The curve.

Rooster (17:56):
What a what a nice way to say you overcut yourself.

Bam Bam (17:58):
What do you what do you what are you getting, dude?

Senator (18:00):
It's not the curve.

Chef Ricky (18:01):
So let me let me I

Gizmo (18:02):
feel like he's used that before.

Pagoda (18:04):
So so I I'll tell you. I'm gonna start, and you're all
gonna be laughing again. Butstill, I think for me, when I
started at the light, I got ofjust one strong whiff of, like,
a dark chocolate, and it justwent away.

Bam Bam (18:18):
It was sweet early on.

Pagoda (18:19):
It was a little banana ish. I don't know. Like, a
little sweeter.

Chef Ricky (18:22):
Yeah.

Pagoda (18:22):
Went away. Then it became very earthy. For me, it's
tobacco and earthy.

Bam Bam (18:27):
Okay.

Pagoda (18:27):
And on the on the side of my tongue, it's really, like,
it's not a very pleasant, it'sa, I think, short to medium
finish, but drier and leaves avery tobacco like Yeah. Not a
very pleasant you know how,like, some cigars, I love the
pleasant feeling it leaves inthe palate? This does not at
all. So I'm still trying to

Bam Bam (18:47):
Are you

Pagoda (18:48):
understand what it is doing.

Bam Bam (18:49):
Are you not liking it at all?

Pagoda (18:51):
I'm not there yet. Not not like I would be

Bam Bam (18:54):
right now,

Pagoda (18:54):
I'm at a 5.

Bam Bam (18:55):
I mean, it's fair. Yeah.

Senator (18:56):
Yeah. I'm not loving it either. I'm kind of in the same
campus, but go to

Bam Bam (18:59):
I'm kinda

Senator (19:00):
I kinda like it.

Bam Bam (19:01):
Weird way I like it. It's just it is definitely a
different it is an outlier, thiscigar.

Gizmo (19:06):
This is an outlier. It's different. I'm completely
intrigued.

Bam Bam (19:10):
Me too.

Gizmo (19:10):
My palate is bouncing off the wall right now Yeah. With
all these different notes andthe different things we're
tasting. One thing I think wecan all agree on, it's not
boring No. And it's not a simpleflavored cigar. I think there's
a lot of complexity in itwhether or not it's for you.

Bam Bam (19:25):
Here's a question.

Gizmo (19:26):
We'll get there, but

Bam Bam (19:27):
as far as snacking, if you were snacking and having the
cigar with the caviar and somechips, you're typical you would
not have caviar with this thing?

Senator (19:35):
Absolutely not.

Bam Bam (19:36):
Yeah. That salty brininess with the caviar, I
think

Senator (19:39):
they don't get a lot of brininess in this.

Bam Bam (19:40):
I get saltiness in this.

Gizmo (19:41):
I'm getting saltiness for sure.

Bam Bam (19:43):
There's no doubt. Yeah. Or anything like that salty.

Gizmo (19:45):
I'm also loving the combustion.

Chef Ricky (19:47):
I think cheese with this just to kinda carry on.

Bam Bam (19:50):
That's a good idea.

Chef Ricky (19:51):
You know, just extend some of the flavors. So
the reason I asked what I askedabout pagoda, I feel like the
drier draws, the industry drawsthat we were taking were
sweeter. And then as we continuewithdrawing on our cigar, the,
you know, the opening got alittle bit more wet with our own
saliva and whatnot, and italmost feels like the draw, the
flavor is changing. So I wasthinking if maybe pagoda's draw

(20:14):
is just starting wide open, ifhe was still getting, you know,
some dry fruit notes as opposedto these

Pagoda (20:20):
No. It became more earthier.

Chef Ricky (20:22):
Earthy cedar.

Pagoda (20:24):
Yeah. And tobacco earthy. Like, not a very you
know, sometimes you get apleasant earthiness as well.
This is it's I'm not gettingthat at all for you.

Rooster (20:32):
I think that's the barnyard note. Maybe. I think.

Senator (20:35):
Yeah. Is this all Dominican tobacco?

Gizmo (20:38):
I believe it is, except for the filler we don't know. So
the wrapper is Escoto Maduro.The binder is Dominican barrel
aged, and there are 4 fillers inthe cigar which are not
detailed. Unusual. There thereis a potential that there's
something else in here that, youknow, could be Nicaraguan, could
be Honduran, could be CostaRican.

(20:59):
Who knows? But, those are notdefined.

Bam Bam (21:03):
That's strange. The the

Pagoda (21:04):
the the the the reason they do, Dominican cigar with 4
different types of Dominicansin? I thought that smoked really
well. I thought I I don't

Gizmo (21:11):
remember what that was. Was was that the Davidoff
Maduro?

Pagoda (21:15):
No. I've it's totally like, I know that we had
something with 4 or 5 differentfillers in it. Yeah. Alright.

Gizmo (21:22):
Alright, boys. Let's go through the story of Paul
Garmirion. He was born Bogos kGarmirion in Beirut, Lebanon,
and he's much more than a cigarmaker. He has been or is a
professor, a real estate broker,an author, a doctor, and a cigar
retailer. He was born, like Isaid, in Beirut, and his father

(21:43):
was a construction executivebuilding, government buildings
and whatnot.
When he was 11, his father couldno longer go to work due to a
work related injury and was notable to support his son's
education. He promised hisfather or Paul's grandfather
someday that he would build anddonate a school for Armenian
youth and name it after him, andthe father was able to fulfill

(22:06):
his promise with the completionof the Bogos k Garmirian School
named in honor of his father in1974 in Lebanon in a suburb
suburb of Beirut, and his fatherlived the rest of his life as a
philanthropist. Paul Garmirian,the guy who made this cigar,
earned his PhD in internationalpolitics, senator, from the
Catholic University of Americain Washington DC in 1975,

(22:28):
returned to Beirut thereafter toteach, and then quickly turned
right back around to the US whenthe Lebanese civil war broke
out, and he's been here eversince. He lectured on politics
and international marketing andmanaged his real estate firm in
McLean, Virginia until 1990 whenhe stepped away to move fully
into the cigar industry. After 2years of research and writing,

(22:50):
Paul first released The GourmetGuide to Cigars, which is a book
that he released after 7 yearsof research and 2 years of
writing.
It's been reprinted 10 timessince then in 2 different
languages. The publication ofhis book resulted in the
opportunity to work with HendrikKellner, president of Tabacos
Dominicanos, and Elado Diaz, thechief blender in Santiago,

(23:11):
Dominican Republic. Whatfollowed was an experimentation
and hard work by an extremelyskilled and talented Dominican
artisans whose spirit andinnovation fused the PG cigar
into existence. The initialrelease of the PG line consisted
of the traditional Cuban sizesintroduced to Georgetown Tobacco
in Washington DC in November of1990. The initial seven sizes

(23:35):
were the Churchill, theBellicoso, which was the first
time that shape appeared in theUnited States market at all,
aside from when it was, youknow, with Cuban cigars be
before the embargo.
The number 1, the number 2, thecorona grande, the Lonsdale, and
the corona. They all wereofficially released nationwide
after that first release in late1990 at a cigar dinner in

(23:57):
Chicago on May 1, 1991. That wasthe PG Gourmet Series 1. The
Gourmet Series 2, whichpotentially was what Rooster was
talking about having in the latenineties, was launched in 1999
in 2 shapes, the torpedo and theRobusto. In late 2001, the
Connoisseur and Belicossofinoswere added.

(24:18):
The Reserva Exclusiva, anexceptional cigar from 10 year
old tobaccos, they say, alsoarrived in late 2001 in Corona
Extra and Belicoso. Then theyhad a few other sizes that
joined in early 2002. 2005, 15thanniversary of PG, they released
a full bodied blend. It was aBelicoso Extra made in a 1,000
boxes of 15, quickly sold out.In 2006, the blend became a line

(24:42):
of 9 size 9 sizes called 15thanniversary, which I guess is
still available today.
During the blending of the 15thanniversary, PG came across a
full bodied blend, which afterfurther bending blending was
released in 2006 as the PGSoiree in 3 different sizes. He
says that it's a perfect afterdinner cigar. 2010 and 20th

(25:04):
anniversary, they came up withthe limited edition cigar in one
size, which was a 52 by 6 Toromade available to the top 25 PG
authorized dealers. In 2015, thecigar we're smoking right now,
this blend marked the 25thanniversary, and 25,000
connoisseurs were made andpacked in 1,250 boxes. Like I

(25:27):
said, these these cigars, theentire 25th contains, Escoto
Madoro wrapper, the 4 fillers,and the Dominican barrel aged
binder.
In 2016, they released a 150boxes of short Robusto, and then
this one that we have in ourhand was released in September
2024 and was limited to 200boxes of 20 cigars. In 2020,

(25:50):
they celebrated their 30thanniversary with the gourmet
series 3. Also, like I said,he's he was a he he owns a
retail store, with his sonKevork in, McLean, Virginia.
They purchased McLean Cigars,which was an existing retailer,
then they made it a PaulGarmirian boutique. So if you
like what he does, if you go toMcLean, Virginia, you can visit

(26:11):
them.
He has made an SD DuPont lighterwith Elaine at SD DuPont. He has
ellie blue humidors for PG,ashtrays, tons of accessories,
and in 2023, he released hissecond book, an autobiography
and memoir titled The Road toCigars. In it, he lays out the
stories of his friendships withpeople like Edward Sahakian, who
owns the Davidoff shop in Londonvery famously, Supreme Court

(26:34):
justice Antonin Scalia, PierreSalinger, who was president
Kennedy's press secretary, andmany more. And allegedly,
presidents Clinton and bothpresidents Bush as well as David
Letterman love Paul Garmiriancigars. And that is the story on
PG.
Pretty wild.

Bam Bam (26:51):
Very impressive.

Gizmo (26:52):
Pretty cool story. That's why I, you know, normally, I
would pair that down

Bam Bam (26:56):
That's incredible.

Gizmo (26:57):
For or when we're reading it here, but I didn't feel that
any of that was, like, you know,could be cut. Like, I I think
this story is fascinating.

Pagoda (27:04):
He's had a fulfilling life.

Bam Bam (27:05):
He has. Well, and he's still alive. Right?

Pagoda (27:07):
With cigars, of course. No. With cigars. Like Yeah.

Bam Bam (27:10):
Yeah. It seems like he's taken, like, he's taken a
intellectual approach tocrafting his career in the cigar
business. Yeah. Very impressive.

Senator (27:18):
I just can't believe I've never come across this guy.
He's a big DC guy. A huge DCguy. Got his PhD at American. He
one of those cigars, you said hefirst released it at Georgetown
Tobacco.
That was my tobacconist when Ilived in DC.

Gizmo (27:30):
He's best friends with that guy.

Senator (27:31):
That's amazing.

Gizmo (27:32):
Owner of, Georgetown Tobacco, I think, was the reason
that Paul got into the cigarindustry. He fell in love with,
you know, cigars in DC Mhmm. AtGeorgetown Tobacco.

Senator (27:42):
And then the McLean part says where I know it's
spelled McLean. Everybody callsMcLean.

Gizmo (27:46):
I'm sorry.

Senator (27:46):
Yeah. And, McLean is a very, very nice suburb outside
of DC. One, I never knew there'sa tobacco shop there, so that's
amazing he's got a shop. Yep.And then, 2, I think you
mentioned he was a real estatebroker.

Pagoda (27:57):
He must've been a lot of money.

Gizmo (27:58):
Oh, yeah.

Senator (27:59):
He must've done well. It's not cheap to live in
McLean.

Rooster (28:01):
Don't have

Gizmo (28:01):
to stop and to stop working to make cigars.

Bam Bam (28:03):
A doctor.

Gizmo (28:03):
And he was well, he was a doctor of,

Bam Bam (28:05):
inter

Gizmo (28:05):
you know, international politics,

Senator (28:07):
I believe. Yeah.

Pagoda (28:08):
No. But really stayed did really well really well
there.

Senator (28:11):
Alright. When we do a lizard trip to DC, we gotta look
him up.

Gizmo (28:14):
I think we I think we need to I think we need to
interview this guy because youyou you think about all that
he's done like Pagoda wassaying, like, what a fulfilled
life. Absolutely. I mean, comingfrom Beirut and and everything
that he's done is prettyamazing.

Bam Bam (28:25):
How old is he now? Do you know?

Gizmo (28:27):
I would guess that if he graduated college with a
doctorate in 75, so that wouldmean he probably got his
bachelor's in 70? It's 102. Sothat would put him at Abuela's
age.

Bam Bam (28:42):
No. Oh, wow. Slightly younger. 80. 80.
80. I don't know. I don't thinkso.

Gizmo (28:47):
You need a How how old are you when you get a doctorate
in international politics?

Bam Bam (28:50):
2 is your bachelor's degree.

Senator (28:51):
From when we think graduated college. You're you're
roughly 21, 22 when you graduatecollege.

Gizmo (28:55):
So that was in let's say let's say in

Senator (28:57):
1970. 70.

Bam Bam (28:58):
So probably about 28 to 30 years old with a PhD, maybe?

Pagoda (29:02):
Around eighties.

Bam Bam (29:02):
For the 6 years?

Gizmo (29:03):
He's gotta be close to 80.

Bam Bam (29:05):
Yeah. Wow. Okay. It like senator said, I think it'd
be great to sit down with himand just pick his brain and have
a cigar in the same room withhim. That'd be great.

Senator (29:13):
I just can't believe I've never encountered this guy.
Like, the DC cigar community isnot that extensive. I'm really
surprised

Chef Ricky (29:19):
by this.

Rooster (29:19):
I think the cigar itself is not really sought
after. It's not well known.

Gizmo (29:25):
No.

Rooster (29:25):
It's a very boutique brand, and very few stores
actually carry this.

Bam Bam (29:29):
Let me ask the have you ever heard of

Senator (29:31):
this cigar, senator? Never.

Bam Bam (29:32):
Neither have I. Never.

Gizmo (29:34):
And by the way, the only the only reason that we're doing
this cigar is because we havegotten, I would say, in the
lifetime of this podcast,probably somewhere between 1525.
I don't know the exact number ofpeople saying

Bam Bam (29:44):
way.

Gizmo (29:45):
Please smoke Paul Garmirian cigars. I swear to
god.

Bam Bam (29:47):
That's crazy.

Gizmo (29:47):
It's a boutique brand that people love. It's
definitely very boutique, and II think he is intentional with
that. You know? I think he wantsto put out a very specific type
of product at a very specifictype of quality, and, I mean I
think he's a a quality over overdollars kinda guy.

Senator (30:03):
I believe that, but he's gotta do better with his
marketing. I mean, I'm justsaying that, like, I live in DC
for a while. I I used to go toGeorgetown Tobacco all the time.
No one and this was earlier inmy journey. So, like, I was
looking for recommendations froma tobacconist.
Never once did anyone atGeorgetown Tobacco recommend I
pick up a PG Cigar.

Pagoda (30:23):
I thought you were talking about blending. I said,
oh my lord. He's gonna do he'sgonna do it.

Rooster (30:27):
Also worth noting is the the connection with the with
the Davidoff, you know, with theHenrik Kellner and, Diaz, you
know, as a blender.

Gizmo (30:37):
Lot of ideas. Yeah. And then, you know, these cigars are
sold in Davidoff of London.Yeah. To Sahakian's.
He's friends with, EdwardSahakian.

Rooster (30:45):
That's where you that's where I have usually seen these
cigars is at a Davidoff store.

Chef Ricky (30:50):
I gotta say, if I cover the band here and I just
look at my burn line and my ash,I feel like I'm smoking a
Davidoff. Like, this is abeautiful burn line.

Pagoda (30:57):
It's performing well. It's performing well.

Chef Ricky (30:59):
The construction is great.

Bam Bam (31:01):
Smoke up. It's great.

Rooster (31:02):
Yep. So It's also worth, reading that book.

Gizmo (31:06):
Yeah. I I actually picked up I actually for for to kinda
color some of the information Iwas finding, there was an ebook
of that most recent one he justput out. I got it for $10 today.
And, so I I was paging throughthat. I mean, his story, his
life story is pretty incredible.
So what are you guys thinkingabout the cigar right now as I
was running through all thathistory for Yeah.

Rooster (31:26):
All the spice is gone.

Chef Ricky (31:27):
Right right now, it's volleying back and forth
for me between, like, pine nutsand or sunflower seeds.

Bam Bam (31:33):
Oh, that's very accurate,

Chef Ricky (31:34):
dude. Pepper.

Bam Bam (31:35):
Are you getting any I'm getting just a hint of sweetness
coming back to me.

Gizmo (31:39):
I am. I am too, and I'm getting a little bit of citrus
right now.

Pagoda (31:42):
A bit of a sweetness. I'm seeking that out. You know?

Chef Ricky (31:44):
It's it's no longer sweetness like dried fruit, but
it's in a hint of sweetness likeyou would find in a creamy nut.

Bam Bam (31:50):
If it's citrus, it's lemon. It's nothing else but
lemon for me.

Rooster (31:53):
It's creamy. I must say it's you know, that that note is
there.

Bam Bam (31:57):
This is a very dodgy cigar. It's all over the place.
It's hard to put your thumb onwhat this is for you. Right?

Chef Ricky (32:03):
I mean, again, I'm not even at the halfway point,
and the flavors, the the variousflavors that we've gotten here,
it's it's really interesting.

Pagoda (32:11):
I wish it had a bit of Nicaraguan wrapper or something.
I don't know. You know? It'ssomething to really Let me ask

Bam Bam (32:17):
you a question. Hasn't it captured your attention at
least because it's interesting?

Pagoda (32:21):
I didn't know. I it's I've just been seeking something
more. I like, I've not beenenjoying, the flavor profile at
all.

Bam Bam (32:28):
Wow. Not at all.

Pagoda (32:29):
No. It's

Gizmo (32:31):
I selected it. I'm very intrigued.

Bam Bam (32:32):
Oh, me too.

Senator (32:34):
I do think this is for a a very, like, specific palate.
Like, this is very dry. It'sdry. You've gotta enjoy, like, a
drier smoke for this to besomething that you'd pick up
regularly. I mean, there'snothing that's, like, you know,
sweet or juicy or or just, like,something that really I just get

(32:56):
like, tantalizes your palate.
Like, this is not amouthwatering type of, like,
cigar.

Gizmo (33:01):
But I'm definitely not. I feel like I'm getting that kind
of umami hit where it it's likethere it's something is
satisfying my brain. I don'tknow if it's because it's so
intriguing or different. To. ButI'm I'm very entertained by this
cigar.

Bam Bam (33:14):
I

Senator (33:14):
don't mean the brain. I mean, literally, your palate.
Like, there are certain cigarswhen, like, that smoke hits your
palate, it's like your mouth iswatering. There's, like,
something about that profile.This is very dry.

Gizmo (33:25):
But it

Senator (33:25):
It's the opposite of that. Not wrong.

Pagoda (33:27):
When I've been drinking water finish.

Chef Ricky (33:29):
Yeah. Super short finish.

Bam Bam (33:30):
So I'm curious in about another half inch of your cigar
if you start touching any typeof a sweet note. You too, chef.

Chef Ricky (33:36):
I I did get back to sweet.

Bam Bam (33:38):
Just a little bit.

Chef Ricky (33:38):
I think, yeah, it started getting a little bit
like a

Bam Bam (33:40):
Can I tell you what that is? No. Yeah.

Chef Ricky (33:43):
Go for it. Let me see.

Bam Bam (33:44):
I can't tell you what it is because Oh. Oh, I

Gizmo (33:46):
thought you were asking permission.

Bam Bam (33:48):
I have no fucking idea what it is. But it's there.

Pagoda (33:50):
Jeff, there's a little bit of gotta tell

Bam Bam (33:52):
you what it is. And I said, can I tell you? No.

Gizmo (33:57):
Alright, boys. Let's move into a pairing. And before we do
this, we have a birthday in theroom tonight. Excuse me? Our
friend Rooster.

Bam Bam (34:05):
Oh,

Gizmo (34:07):
Do you wanna guess how old he is, Bam, while I get the
gift?

Bam Bam (34:10):
Well, he is, I think, officially a vampire. Jesus. No
one knows how old he is. Hestays the same. I've known you
longer than anyone in this room,and you have not changed.

Rooster (34:22):
I can say the same for you.

Bam Bam (34:24):
That's a merit, by the way.

Rooster (34:25):
Thank you.

Senator (34:26):
Happy birthday. Hope Bam has changed. That's not
don't say that back. In allthose hours, we hoped in

Bam Bam (34:33):
some ways he is.

Gizmo (34:34):
So, you know, we normally would, have champagne and savor
it, and that's obviouslyinappropriate for a guy who
doesn't choose to partakeCorrect. In our pairings, every
episode and rating those. So wedecided to bring him a
nonalcoholic beer.

Bam Bam (34:49):
Oh, Guinness.

Gizmo (34:50):
And I brought him a Guinness 0 Beautiful. Which we
rated

Bam Bam (34:53):
very highly. Awesome.

Gizmo (34:54):
And I also do have a gift for you that's not as impressive
Guinness. As this, something Iknow that you've wanted. Oh. I
brought you a 2014 Comro? LUB 14Cojibo Robusto.
Oh my god.

Rooster (35:07):
Didn't you give me one of those in Cuba last year, same
time?

Senator (35:11):
I think he did. I'll take it.

Bam Bam (35:12):
Yeah. Right. You don't want it? Of course.

Rooster (35:15):
Yeah. Didn't you give me one of these at Tropicana?

Bam Bam (35:16):
I

Gizmo (35:17):
don't think it was the LUB 14.

Bam Bam (35:18):
Can you show

Gizmo (35:19):
those, t t t

Bam Bam (35:19):
t t. More gracious in accepting that incredible cigar?
Yes. I'm very disappointed.

Rooster (35:24):
Is it your birthday? No. Until your birthday.

Pagoda (35:27):
But I'm looking at you. You're not

Senator (35:28):
very gracious.

Bam Bam (35:29):
Let's just show some gratitude.

Rooster (35:30):
I am I'm very grateful for this.

Bam Bam (35:33):
Thank you.

Chef Ricky (35:33):
At Rooster's age, you've seen it all.

Bam Bam (35:35):
Oh, you know what? That's true.

Gizmo (35:38):
Well, happy birthday, Rooster.

Bam Bam (35:40):
Thank you.

Rooster (35:40):
Happy birthday. 2014, anything out of 2014.

Gizmo (35:43):
And it's a love 14. It's a love 14.

Bam Bam (35:45):
Special. That would that's good.

Senator (35:47):
Wait till you get pagoda's gift. He's got a great
Xeno 2014 for you.

Rooster (35:51):
You know, he knows better now.

Bam Bam (35:53):
I do know better.

Pagoda (35:54):
Because there's

Rooster (35:55):
something in this bag for him that I'll take right
back.

Bam Bam (35:58):
Oh. Oh.

Gizmo (36:01):
Oh. Alright, boys. Now let's move into our pairing
tonight. We have a very, verykind listener gift from a friend
of ours, lizard shaky, who sentus this very, very exclusive
high priced rum. This is the I'mgonna try to pronounce this.
Wait till I go through thehistory on this, all this

(36:22):
French. I'm screwed. It's troisriberas? Rivieraas? How do you
how do you how would youpronounce that in French, you
think?

Bam Bam (36:29):
I can't read it from here.

Gizmo (36:30):
Or is

Bam Bam (36:30):
that an r?

Gizmo (36:31):
It is a French plantation rum. It's an Agricole extra old.
It was distilled in 2,006. It's13 years old rum and this
specific bottle that we have wasselected by and bottled
exclusively for K&L WineMerchant, which I guess is a

(36:53):
wine merchant

Senator (36:54):
They're big.

Gizmo (36:54):
In, in California. They're big. And this is a
single cask at 51.3 percentalcohol tonight on the pod. So
this bottle, I think, was Saythe percent again? 51.3.

Senator (37:08):
I thought you said 61. I was like, jeez. I'm gonna slip
sit this a lot slower.

Gizmo (37:12):
Oh, yeah. So let's try this boys. Cheers.

Bam Bam (37:14):
Happy birthday, Rooster. Happy birthday,
brother.

Rooster (37:16):
Thank you.

Gizmo (37:16):
Happy birthday to you, and thanks to lizard shaky out
there for sending this. We'redrinking this neat for all the
purest out there.

Senator (37:23):
Trois Rivier. Trois Rivier. Or Riviera. Trois
Riviera.

Gizmo (37:30):
There you go.

Bam Bam (37:30):
Thank you, Siri.

Gizmo (37:33):
This is very interesting. Wow. I like it. I like it a lot.

Senator (37:38):
I mean, I'll just say as a pairing, this was
desperately needed with thiscigar because this has, like,

Bam Bam (37:43):
a lot

Senator (37:43):
of that, like, sweet, like, sugarcane notes that just
really helps balance the cigarbetter.

Bam Bam (37:48):
Oh, yeah. But, Gorda, what are you thinking about this
spirit?

Pagoda (37:51):
Yeah. So so initially, when I

Bam Bam (37:55):
maybe you wanna get out of bed.

Pagoda (37:59):
I'm so comfortable here. Yeah. No. Initially, when, you
know, I put my nose, to thedrink, it was it was pretty
rough. I thought it was slightlyunbearable, but now that it's

Gizmo (38:10):
couldn't disagree more.

Pagoda (38:11):
And now that it's spent, you know, some time airing out,
it's, a lot more fruitier, Ithink. And, you know, a little
bit of the sugarcane, but morefruity, I'm getting. So I I
don't know. Let let's let's havethe first step.

Senator (38:24):
I'm with pagoda on the nose. The nose was like gasoline
when I first spoke.

Bam Bam (38:28):
I agree.

Senator (38:29):
But it has definitely decanted a bit. Yeah. And now
you're actually able to discern,like, some pleasant notes.

Gizmo (38:35):
Chef, what what was your verdict on the nose? I'm
curious.

Chef Ricky (38:38):
The nose I I enjoy and I know I remember listening
to the clarin episode, the rawmedical coal from Haiti.

Gizmo (38:45):
Oh, that didn't go well.

Chef Ricky (38:46):
Yeah. That didn't go well. And I I remember being
excited for that because I I'mactually a fan of of, Haitian
clarin. It reminds me a lot ofmezcal and its artisanal quality
and

Senator (38:57):
Rooster's feeling vindicated after bringing us
that awful bottle. Oh.

Bam Bam (39:02):
I guess chef I

Rooster (39:02):
guess chef was the bomb,

Senator (39:03):
but No.

Chef Ricky (39:04):
I wasn't.

Senator (39:04):
No. I wish you coulda drank it for me.

Gizmo (39:08):
That was the one. We opened the bottle, and it
smelled like milk had gone bad.

Pagoda (39:12):
Yeah. Yeah.

Rooster (39:12):
But did you guys Nobody tasted it.

Senator (39:14):
No. Nobody said we opened it and closed it. Gagged
just from the smell. We couldn't

Bam Bam (39:18):
even taste it.

Rooster (39:19):
I guess it was the fermented sugarcane. Right?
That's what was giving it theIt's

Chef Ricky (39:23):
because of how rum Agricole is made. Right? So a
lot all the rum that we do drinkon the pod, it's rum, not rum
Agricole. Rum is distilled frommolasses. This is rum Agricole
is distilled from sugarcane.
But first, the sugarcane isbrought down to about a 5 per
it's fermented to a 5% ABV. Atthat point, it's then distilled

(39:44):
to create the Agricole. AndAgricole is French for
agriculture, so it's pulling orcalling to the terroir from
which the sugarcane comes from.So, you know, obviously,
cooking, food from differentcultures. And before I've sort
of become invested in the theMexican, flavor profile, I was
very big into Asian food, and,you know, working with sugarcane

(40:07):
often.
And sometimes in those cultures,you're especially here in the
States, you're working withsugarcane from a can. So that
that nose of rum Agricolereminds me of opening a can of
sugarcane

Gizmo (40:17):
Wow.

Chef Ricky (40:17):
Of cooked sugarcane. That's what that is. And there's
also a very popular I wouldn'tsay very popular, but a rum that
I love coming out of Oaxaca,Mexico, called Paranubas, and
it's made by David Sorrell. Andit has a very similar aroma to
these Agricole's and that itsmells like cooked sugarcane.

Senator (40:33):
Was this from that brand that I tried?

Gizmo (40:36):
Remember I went

Chef Ricky (40:37):
to Yes. Yes.

Senator (40:38):
It was actually good.

Chef Ricky (40:39):
Yeah. The rum.

Senator (40:40):
Yep. Yeah. I've had what he's talking about. It's
shockingly good.

Chef Ricky (40:43):
If you smell the nose on there and that rum is
not is non aged. Now they havean aged variant. But if you
smell the nose on that, that,this, the rum, maybe with
whatever sour notes aside, theyall have a similar nose, and
that that nose is of cookedsugarcane.

Senator (40:59):
So the context there, this was bizarre. When I was at
a PCA event at the in Chicago,they had a tequila tasting. They
had a bunch of different I mean,there was a a whiskey tasting
tequila, but I was with thisguy, and the guy really blew my
mind. He was awesome. I have hiscard.
We'll hopefully have him on theat some point. And I was

(41:19):
mentioning this, and chef Rickyknew exactly who I was talking
about. And in the course of thistequila tasting, this guy goes,
have you have you ever tried therum we make? And I'm like, rum.
How could this possibly beanything worth drinking?
And it was shockingly

Chef Ricky (41:32):
good.

Bam Bam (41:33):
Yeah. Yep. How are you feeling about this?

Senator (41:36):
I, you know, I mean, this is way better than that
clarinet. That's for sure. Mhmm.It it's really growing on me.

Bam Bam (41:42):
It does take your palate adjust to to adjust to
really start to enjoy thisthing.

Gizmo (41:47):
I'm I'll be honest. I'm really surprised, guys, that
that you're taking time to enjoythe spirit from the from the
nose, from the first sip. Ireally love this rum. It's
because they're

Senator (41:58):
I'll say this. Because it's

Bam Bam (41:59):
gulping it. That's why. Why.

Senator (42:00):
I'm not gulping. Well, I don't know about that, but

Gizmo (42:01):
I on your list.

Bam Bam (42:02):
I would gulp. It is.

Senator (42:04):
I I do think well, what's on his list, you did pull
out a ziplock bag to giverooster his cigars. So God.

Gizmo (42:12):
I always bring a Ziploc bag to the pot.

Bam Bam (42:14):
I always

Rooster (42:14):
I'm okay with that, Giz. Anytime you wanna give me a
love pour out of a Ziploc bag,

Gizmo (42:19):
I'm good. Happy birthday, bro.

Bam Bam (42:20):
Thank you. Oh my lord.

Rooster (42:22):
These fuckers? No.

Gizmo (42:23):
That's right. Yeah. That's right. Yes. You guys are
out.

Bam Bam (42:26):
Alright.

Senator (42:28):
But on the the spirit, I I do think when you poured
yours, I don't think that youimmediately smelled the nose or
tried it. I always try it a

Bam Bam (42:38):
little early. Me too.

Senator (42:39):
And initially, without it having time to decant, it was
a lot more aggressive a spiritthan it is now. So I just think,
like, this is something thatjust needs to decant just a
little bit. I think the timedefinitely helps. And I think
the more you you drink it andthe more it's decanting, like,
the the flavors become morepronounced and it smooths out.
So, like, I'm enjoying what I'mgetting now.

Rooster (43:01):
Yeah. So maybe we should have done this with the
clarin, chef. Yeah. What do youthink?

Pagoda (43:05):
No. No. It I I think it laid out for, like, a week. Let
me Right in

Bam Bam (43:08):
the lounge. That does not No.

Rooster (43:10):
I mean Leave

Bam Bam (43:10):
it open for a week.

Gizmo (43:12):
Pour it in a Home Depot bucket. Have you had

Rooster (43:14):
have you had the Clarin?

Chef Ricky (43:15):
I've had Clarin before. Yes.

Bam Bam (43:16):
Must we talk about the Clarin?

Rooster (43:18):
The exact one, the initial aroma?

Chef Ricky (43:20):
I don't think the exact one, but I've had that
brand. It Clarins a lot likeMoscow and that's

Bam Bam (43:26):
for rotten milk? Yeah. Yeah.

Chef Ricky (43:29):
Yeah. No. And and let me

Rooster (43:30):
Amishore palates.

Bam Bam (43:32):
If if Oh my god.

Chef Ricky (43:34):
If we ever get to the point where we do what I see
on this part, which is an agavedistillate, that shit's gonna
blow your mind because some ofthe the nose on that, you can
get putrid putrid fruit orrotten milk or, like,
superlactic, notes, but then youtaste it, and it is the most
sweet, delicious. It it's, youyou know and and there's, you

(43:55):
know, durian fruits like that.Right?

Bam Bam (43:57):
Like Oh, yeah.

Chef Ricky (43:58):
You break open that fruit, it smells like shit, and
then you taste it, and it's someof the sweetest, most delicious
flesh.

Rooster (44:02):
I think these guys were very turned off just with the
initial aroma. Just It turned mystomach.

Bam Bam (44:07):
Me too.

Rooster (44:07):
I don't think we even poured

Gizmo (44:10):
a glass.

Rooster (44:11):
It was just out

Chef Ricky (44:11):
of the glass. I remember being very tried too
mad. Yeah.

Bam Bam (44:14):
I I did try it. I did pour, but I couldn't drink it. I
remember you

Gizmo (44:17):
being very

Senator (44:18):
poured it for someone at the lounge one night. You
almost killed a guy.

Pagoda (44:21):
Yeah. No. No. Somebody did something great.

Senator (44:23):
Your friend, he poured it for your friend. Rooster has
killed him.

Bam Bam (44:26):
Rooster's desperate need to have someone drink.

Pagoda (44:29):
I'm happy with the doigan. I think he put us the
drink, didn't he?

Senator (44:32):
Not willingly. He the look on his face, and then
Rooster was like, come on.

Gizmo (44:36):
You're not gonna fix this. I remember that. Alright.
Oh, wow.

Bam Bam (44:39):
Way too polite.

Rooster (44:40):
He he he was at a point, anything you pour for
him, he would have had it. Yeah.He would have had it.

Senator (44:45):
Was like, I've got a great bottle for you. This guy
takes a sip and looks at himlike, what the hell is this?
Because the

Rooster (44:51):
initial initial smell is like that, but I guess it
tasted okay. Yeah.

Bam Bam (44:55):
So I

Rooster (44:55):
don't know. Maybe we should do it again on the

Pagoda (44:57):
He had at least 10, like, Manhattan's and Old
Fashioned that night before.

Chef Ricky (45:01):
So what's funny on this, on the palate, I'm
drinking it, and I'm like, wow.This is kinda tasting cognac ish
or and I look, and it's AsianFrench limousine barrels. So
it's cognac cask. And

Bam Bam (45:11):
I will say I am getting just a slight hint of caramel
way at the tail end of thisthing. Just a touch.

Chef Ricky (45:17):
It's a very complex drink.

Gizmo (45:19):
I'm loving

Chef Ricky (45:19):
very complex.

Bam Bam (45:20):
It's a grown man's drink right there.

Chef Ricky (45:21):
Especially for rum. It's not one dimensional and
anyway.

Bam Bam (45:24):
Small sips. You gotta take your time.

Chef Ricky (45:26):
Yeah. So I wanna go

Gizmo (45:27):
through the history in a second here, boys, but we're
coming to the end of the firstthird here on the Paul Garmirian
25th anniversary in Bellicosa.What's everybody thinking right
now? Pairing with the rum, thecigar itself, what are your
thoughts?

Bam Bam (45:38):
It's a very savory experience.

Gizmo (45:42):
I'm really enjoying the cigar

Bam Bam (45:43):
as well. Can't say that I don't like it.

Rooster (45:46):
It's very different. That barnyard note is there in
the background. That continuesto come through.

Chef Ricky (45:52):
Yeah. I I'd say for me, the retrohills gotten a
little bit aggressive, and Ithink that's because of the
proof of the rum being that therum is on the hotter side. It's
kind of opened up my nasalpassages a little bit. So
whenever I retrohale it, it is aa bit spicy. I'm I'm really
enjoying it, but there's thereis a little bit of hesitance for
me here.
And I I watch because I can'tpinpoint everything. I I don't

(46:16):
understand it.

Gizmo (46:17):
I feel the same about the cigar.

Chef Ricky (46:18):
Yeah. But it's not, you know, it's not making me
dislike it. It's it's it'smaking it interesting, but it's
something that demands time andyour attention. You can't smoke
this for the sake of justsmoking kind of empty you know,
with an empty mind. You need to,like, pay attention.

Gizmo (46:33):
Yeah. Oh,

Pagoda (46:35):
there. I lost it all because

Bam Bam (46:36):
has it grown?

Pagoda (46:37):
I haven't an empty mind. So No. I really do.

Bam Bam (46:40):
Has this cigar grown on you at all?

Chef Ricky (46:42):
No. Nothing. Just coughed it up.

Bam Bam (46:44):
K.

Senator (46:46):
I will say for for me, it's gotten better. Again, I I
still think this is for aparticular palate, but what I'm
just thrilled with is I I dothink any sweeter spirit pairs
really well with this. And I dolike with that how I'm getting
sweet and savory through thepairing.

Bam Bam (47:05):
That's a good point.

Senator (47:06):
I do just wish that the cigar could do that on its own,
but the pairing is at leastsolving it for me.

Bam Bam (47:11):
Yeah. A sweet any sweet spirit would be a great
compliment to

Gizmo (47:13):
that to this. So I I don't wanna talk about ratings,
but based on that comment, I dohave a question for you. Do you
think that given yourappreciation of the rum paired
with the cigar, do you thinkthat that is higher than what
you'll probably rate either ofthem at this point? Do you
understand what I'm saying?Like, the sum enhance the

(47:35):
flavor.
Like, the overall flavor of thepairing, which we don't rate.
Oh, yeah. I the cigar. We ratethe rum. The overall pairing of
both right now, you're saying

Senator (47:44):
The sum is greater than the parts. Yes.

Bam Bam (47:46):
That

Senator (47:46):
that's that's what I'm saying, and I think you're
you're calling out.

Gizmo (47:49):
Exactly what I'm getting to.

Senator (47:51):
You know, for me, the rum on its own is is very sweet.
Like, I like a more balancedrum. The cigar is very dry on
its own. I like a more balancedcigar. So, like, together, they
dance very nicely.
But on their own, is my ratinggonna be as high as if I could
only always have these 2 paired,it will be a bit lower for sure.

Rooster (48:13):
Can you guys at all attest to aged tobacco in this
cigar? Do you get any

Gizmo (48:21):
It doesn't taste young to me. I I I'm not gonna lie to
you.

Rooster (48:24):
Young, but, I mean, they're talking about a lot of
age on these tobaccos. Right?

Gizmo (48:28):
I would think this tobacco probably has 5 to 6
years on it. But that's a lot ofthe cigars that we get from
Dominican and and Nicaragua havethat kind of age age range on
it. So Yeah.

Senator (48:38):
I think it's a good question Rooster asked because
if you gave this to me blind anddidn't tell me any age statement
whatsoever and I had to guess, Iwould think there's 1 to 3 years
I would never think this is a 5or 6 year age cigar. To me, the
tobacco isn't as refined as,like, some other new world
cigars we've had. They're in,like, that 5 even 4, 5, 6 year

(49:00):
range. I would not suspect onmy, blind that that's the case.

Gizmo (49:06):
Do you think that it's that feeling, is it the presence
of the barnyard? Is it theabsence of the sweetness? Is it
that you're not feeling it'swell rounded?

Senator (49:15):
I think it's the pepper. The pepper. For me,
that's like the driving force.Like, I can't remember ever
having, like, seriously agedtobacco that, like, is at all as
peppery as this cigar started.

Bam Bam (49:26):
Are you still getting that now?

Senator (49:27):
No. No. It's definitely dissipated, but it was present
for a while. Mhmm. And I can'tthink of a single new world
cigar I've ever had with agethat was at any point as peppery
as this was.
I I feel like that's somethingthat gets dialed back

Bam Bam (49:42):
With every cigar. Age. So Well, I think with every
cigar. Yeah.

Senator (49:45):
That that would have thrown me off.

Rooster (49:46):
You know, it's like lately, I keep comparing every
single cigar I smoked to anExclusivo.

Senator (49:52):
You don't say.

Gizmo (49:53):
It only took them 3 years.

Bam Bam (49:54):
Yeah. Well, actually it took 43 years. Exactly.

Rooster (49:59):
And it's odd. It's like, you know what? That cigar
is so satisfying. And so youwish you get some of those
flavors out of this cigar. Youknow?
Some of that sweetness or thatcocoa or chocolate would come
through on this, and it would be

Pagoda (50:11):
a whole lot. Cigar. Yeah. No.

Bam Bam (50:13):
That's Yeah.

Rooster (50:13):
I For half the price.

Bam Bam (50:15):
Yeah.

Chef Ricky (50:16):
I'm just curious about the age because the the
burn line for me, I still getsome ammonia there. Like, it
still reminds me of, like, amoldy cheese, you know, like,
the rind of a moldy cheese.

Gizmo (50:26):
I'm not getting ammonia.

Rooster (50:27):
I'm not getting any ammonia.

Gizmo (50:28):
Sam, but I'm I'm not really getting it.

Chef Ricky (50:31):
Ricky. Just I'm definitely getting it.

Bam Bam (50:33):
Yeah. No ammonia on the foot for me.

Gizmo (50:34):
I'm getting a little pepper, but not ammonia.

Bam Bam (50:37):
Definitely, like, a very light pepper Yeah. If
anything.

Gizmo (50:40):
And it's it's not flaring my nostril like it was the first
time senator told me to

Senator (50:45):
Yeah.

Gizmo (50:45):
To smell the burn line like that. Like, it's it's
actually pretty pleasant.

Chef Ricky (50:49):
No. I'm I'm not getting those same pleasant
notes that I get from some othercigars like an Escoceva or a
Great Cuban where you're gettingbacon spice or more or or notes
that just lean naturallysweeter, you know, whether it be
cocoa or or bread notes orwhatnot. I'm not getting any of
that here. So but I

Senator (51:04):
mean, Giz, I'm curious. If this were blind, you would
ever guess this is 5 or 6 yearsof age?

Gizmo (51:09):
I'm not saying that. Yeah. Definitely. I I I'm not
what I'm saying is I'm I'm nottasting youth. I'm not saying
that this has age of you know,significant age that we've
tasted in in other tobaccos.
You know, specifically Dominicantobaccos, like some of the best,
you know, that that DavidoffMaduro. You know, there is a
little pepper there, but it issuch a, you know, complex,

(51:31):
complete flavor profile. There'sthe sweetness. That that
delivers a real, you know,fulfilling experience.

Bam Bam (51:38):
Well rounded experience. Yeah. But that's

Rooster (51:39):
a little different than that. You get pepper, but you
also get a lot of cocoa andExactly. That that balances it.
That's that's where you get thesweetness from. Correct.

Chef Ricky (51:47):
That's still not as satisfying as a Muscovy. I mean,
I had my first one last week,and I really enjoyed it. But

Bam Bam (51:53):
Muscovy was Davydos Enduro?

Gizmo (51:54):
Yeah. Okay.

Bam Bam (51:55):
Yeah. Yeah. This is in its lane right now, and it's
It's

Gizmo (51:59):
I'm in I'm I remain intrigued.

Senator (52:01):
Yeah.

Rooster (52:01):
But I'm

Bam Bam (52:01):
I've never ever had a cigar like this before.

Gizmo (52:03):
Me neither. It's it's uniquely this is like one of 1.
You know what I mean?

Bam Bam (52:08):
But it's definitely for someone out there that loves
this.

Gizmo (52:11):
Oh, I can understand somebody loving this. Sure.

Rooster (52:14):
Loving this profile. I just wish it wasn't a $25 cigar.
I think the price point is a bithigh for what it's delivered.

Bam Bam (52:21):
Oh, no doubt about that. Right.

Gizmo (52:22):
I agree. Alright, boys. Let's go back to the rum for a
minute. I have some history onTra Riviera. It's a renowned rum
distillery located inMartinique, a French overseas
territory in the Caribbean.
The distillery is celebrated forproducing rum Agricole, as we
talked about, a style of rummade directly from freshly
pressed sugarcane juice ratherthan molasses. This method

(52:45):
imparts unique vegetal andgrassy characteristics to the
rum that we've been pointingout, setting it apart from
traditional molasses based rums.It was founded in the late 17th
century by Nicolas Fouquet whowas the superintendent of
finances to King Louis the 14th.The distillery's name, Trau

(53:06):
Riviera, is 3 rivers referringto its location at the meeting
point of 3 rivers in Martinique,Oman I can't pronounce this Bois
Dindy and Saint Pierre. It wasoriginally established as a
sugar plantation and thentransitioned to, rum production
with time.
This distillery holds the AOCdesignation, which stands for

(53:29):
Appalachian de origin control,which is a certification granted
to agricultural products thatmeet strict production
standards. This ensuresauthenticity, adherence,
adherence to traditionalmethods. The distillery grows
its own sugarcane, includingspecific varieties suited to
Martinique's volcanic soil andtropical climate. The juice is

(53:51):
fermented and distilled usingtraditional column stills
producing a lighter, morearomatic spirit. The rums are
aged in a combination of Frenchand American oak barrels.
And sometimes, as Ricky pointedout, this one, was aged in ex
cognac, barrels from Limousinein France. And the barrels, of

(54:11):
course, adding complexity anddepth to the final product. The
rums are known for their freshgrassy and floral notes often
complemented by tropical fruit,spice, and woody undertone. They
produce both unaged white rumand aged gold VSOP, XO, and
vintage. I guess this istechnically an XO product.

(54:32):
As well as limited editionsingle cask releases, which this
is. They have a couple signaturerums, the Blanc, which is
classic unaged Agricole rum witha very fresh grassy profile, the
Cuvee delle Ocean, made fromsugarcane grown on seaside
plots, has a briny mineralcharacter. They have a triple

(54:53):
molesome, which is a blend ofselect vintages showcasing
complex layered flavors. Andfinally, they have single year
expressions like this one isaged to highlight the specific
characteristics of the harvestyear. The distillery emphasizes
sustainable farming practicesand environmentally friendly
friendly production methodsensuring minimal impact on

(55:14):
Martinique's ecosystem.
What's cool too, visitors toMartinique can tour the
distillery to learn about itshistory, production methods, and
rum making traditions. Thestunning views of sugarcane
fields and the Caribbean Sea addto the experience. This
distillery is a cornerstone ofMartinique's rum heritage,
producing these Agricole rumsfor over 400 years. Wow. Pretty

(55:38):
cool.
How much is that bottle? $150.

Bam Bam (55:42):
Alrighty then.

Gizmo (55:43):
So thank you, lizard shaky, for sending that to us.
Very, very kind of

Bam Bam (55:46):
him Very generous.

Gizmo (55:47):
To, to share this

Bam Bam (55:49):
room with us tonight. $150. I will say, you know, it
doesn't take much to satisfyyou, and this dram that I have
will last quite a while. Yeah.There's a slight heat, but I
happen to like that.
It's very pleasant. And thefinish is really nice and sweet
if you keep it in your mouth abit longer.

Rooster (56:05):
The color is so deep in It's a beautiful color.
Beautiful.

Gizmo (56:08):
Yeah. The dark amber.

Chef Ricky (56:10):
13 years. Yeah.

Gizmo (56:11):
What do you guys think with the age being in the barrel
13 years?

Chef Ricky (56:15):
It looks like a cognac.

Bam Bam (56:16):
It does.

Chef Ricky (56:16):
It looked the color is very reminiscent of 1738.

Gizmo (56:19):
I'm surprised at the at the viscosity not being I'm
surprised it's not a little moreviscous than it is. Yeah. It
it's a little thinner than Iwould have expected with that
age on it.

Chef Ricky (56:29):
Yeah. But

Bam Bam (56:30):
with the the alcohol content, you kind of it's kind
of welcome, and it's easier todrink because of the lower
viscosity, I think.

Chef Ricky (56:37):
I also think because it's distilled from sugar cane
sugarcane and not molasses, it'sgonna be a little bit less
viscous. So but I think it'sreally complex. A lot like the
cigar, it it deserves someattention when drinking it, and
that's why it forces you tokinda drink it slow. It it's
definitely a complex drink. Itdoes lean sweet, but there's a

(56:58):
lot here where you're drinkingrum, but it feels like you're
drinking cognac.

Bam Bam (57:02):
And Oh, yeah.

Chef Ricky (57:03):
There's even some some scotch undertones there
towards the finish. So it's it'sinteresting. It's very
interesting.

Bam Bam (57:09):
What do you think of the price?

Chef Ricky (57:11):
Look. It's a 13 year old rum, limited production.
It's not mass produced, so I'dyou know, it's it is what it is.

Bam Bam (57:19):
With everything you said, it sounds fair Yeah. For
what it is, I guess.

Gizmo (57:22):
Yeah.

Senator (57:23):
I I think it's high, but I I do agree. Cheap. Yeah. I
do agree with Ricky's point.It's it's a complex rum, and it
definitely commands yourattention.

Chef Ricky (57:32):
Mhmm.

Senator (57:33):
I just wish the price point were

Rooster (57:35):
I mean, the price is approaching Santiago. Right?

Senator (57:39):
Yeah. That's Oh, Santiago 20. Santiago 20.

Rooster (57:42):
I mean, that thing probably blows this away.

Bam Bam (57:44):
That's like nectar.

Pagoda (57:46):
Have you had such expensive rums?

Senator (57:48):
No. Santiago 20. That's like a $160 bottle.

Bam Bam (57:51):
Had that.

Chef Ricky (57:51):
Yeah. That's

Pagoda (57:52):
the only one that I thought.

Gizmo (57:53):
The more one of the more expensive Cuban rums we've
actually done on the pod that welove.

Bam Bam (57:56):
Probably the the

Pagoda (57:57):
That's the only one. Right? I think Well, there's a
lot of rums

Bam Bam (58:00):
that we like.

Rooster (58:01):
Well, there's a few in the 70, $80

Pagoda (58:03):
70.80. Do. Like, too.

Rooster (58:04):
Emenite and few other ones. Different mark maker.
Yeah. Yeah.

Chef Ricky (58:08):
I'm just curious. When you guys did the
Barbancourt, did you, youremember what year or how many
years was it the It's it

Senator (58:13):
was like the entry level stuff. True. Okay. Because
it's hard to like, that's reallyall they have readily available
here. It was not great.
It was really harsh. Real like,I I would not dare call it a
sipping rum,

Pagoda (58:26):
what we had.

Chef Ricky (58:26):
Yeah. I'd I've had the 3 star, which I enjoyed. I
think that's 14 years.

Bam Bam (58:31):
Oh, I'm still still cleaning the carburetor with
that shit, man.

Senator (58:36):
I'm missing that little, like, screw top bottle.

Bam Bam (58:38):
Yeah. Yeah. Very appropriate. Decreasing engines.
Jesus.

Gizmo (58:44):
So I do know this this was a very limited release that
lizard shaky sent us. I think itwas limited to, like, 250 or 500
bottles worldwide.

Rooster (58:52):
Yeah. It's it's fretting for the cigar. It is?

Gizmo (58:55):
Yeah. That's why I paired it with this because I was
reading the story of the PGCigars. Thought it was
interesting. You know, I wantedto bring something that was a
little sweeter in because Ididn't know what the flavor
profile profile would be. So I'mglad it's working out.

Chef Ricky (59:08):
Great call because this cigar isn't sweet at all.
So it's, it helps round it out.

Bam Bam (59:13):
So, senator, how are you I started to really enjoy
this cigar at that point whereyou are now. How are you feeling
about it? I started to get backa little bit of sweetness there.
Just a touch.

Senator (59:22):
Yeah. There is a touch.

Bam Bam (59:23):
Just a touch.

Senator (59:24):
There's a touch. It it's I like the second half of
this cigar Mhmm. Definitely morethan I did the first half. And
it's because, you know, whatwe're saying, it's more balanced
to me in the second half. Ithink the first half leans way
too dry and way too earthy, butI think the second half is
achieving some more balance.

Bam Bam (59:43):
There's almost like a grainy cereal thing I'm getting
with this right now, which Ireally like.

Chef Ricky (59:47):
It's still dry, but in it's drying the way a walnut
is dry. The way a walnut hasthose drying qualities on the

Bam Bam (59:53):
flavor. I happen to love that flavor.

Chef Ricky (59:55):
Yeah.

Bam Bam (01:00:00):
You're like a cat trying not to make it sound.

Chef Ricky (01:00:05):
Did you crack open your Guinness?

Rooster (01:00:07):
No. Not yet. Why not, dude?

Senator (01:00:08):
Oh, come on. I think we gotta hear the

I think it's gonna improve your system.

Pagoda (01:00:12):
Is nonalcoholic.

Gizmo (01:00:13):
Let's do it.

Bam Bam (01:00:14):
Good to see you, John.

Gizmo (01:00:14):
Cold too. I I had it in the fridge.

Bam Bam (01:00:16):
It was cold. I know

Pagoda (01:00:17):
he wants to have it at room temperature.

Rooster (01:00:20):
I just like it in a glass. That's a problem.

Gizmo (01:00:22):
Oh, here we go. Okay.

Senator (01:00:24):
Does he know he shook it? Just kidding.

Thing's gonna drink

Senator (01:00:31):
like a yahoo.

Bam Bam (01:00:32):
There you go.

Oh, it's a draft can. Nice.

Gizmo (01:00:34):
Oh, yeah. Only the best for my friend rooster on his
burger.

Pagoda (01:00:37):
Mummelo. Mummelo.

Gizmo (01:00:40):
There you go. So boys, we have to go back to a story that
we told quite some time ago, 60some odd episodes ago, over a
year, of a guy that, was prettyfamous, on the Facebook scene

Senator (01:00:55):
for selling

Gizmo (01:00:55):
Cuban cigars. We called them Mickey Mouse. And, there
was a big expose done on Redditthat, blew up, and I couldn't
believe the reaction from peoplethere. And I ended up finding
out about it because we gottagged a couple times. People
talking about the episode thatwe did, with this guy.
And, senator, how would youdescribe Mickey Mouse's

(01:01:18):
operation?

Bam Bam (01:01:18):
How would you describe the operation?

Gizmo (01:01:20):
How would you describe the operation?

Bam Bam (01:01:21):
Well, first of all, was it an operation?

Gizmo (01:01:24):
It was an enterprise. Oh, okay.

Senator (01:01:26):
Brings it up. Now I gotta clean this mess up
somehow. Jesus. I I woulddescribe this guy as, an
enterprising individual whoclearly saw an opportunity with
a product like Cuban cigars thata lot of people don't know or
understand very well, but issought after and people

(01:01:47):
certainly pursue aggressively.And, I think he very cleverly
created this Facebook groupslash cult slash cult,
convincing people that he andonly he could give people access
to real Cuban cigars, aged agedCuban cigars.

(01:02:12):
And in the process of doingthis, for years, proceeded to
knock every other type of cigarthat he did not sell. He said,
Padron is like a golf cart

Bam Bam (01:02:25):
Yes.

Senator (01:02:25):
When you could be driving a Ferrari and smoking
the stuff that he sells. Then,ironically, as the supply of
Cuban cigars started to become abit more scarce, he started
selling Padron Cigars andtelling people that they're
amazing. They should

Rooster (01:02:39):
all buy

Senator (01:02:39):
How convenient. So I bring that up because, like,
that's how much of a shysterthis guy is right to say that
something is a horrible productand then all of a sudden be
promoting it a year late. Imean, that's just how he has
operated. And, I think the thebiggest sham has been the age he
claims these cigars have. Youcannot buy boxes from the guy.

(01:03:02):
You can only buy singles fromthis guy.

Gizmo (01:03:05):
He There are no box dates or codes.

Senator (01:03:07):
No dates. No codes. No pictures.

Pagoda (01:03:10):
No

Senator (01:03:10):
pictures. They're not color matched when you get them.
I mean, it is the mostoutrageous operation, and he
talks about this proprietarysecret aging program that he
has, which involves him juststuffing a bunch of cigars in
Tupperware With wet paper towel.And aging them. I mean, it it

(01:03:30):
it's like the biggest joke I'veever seen.
And so, you know, this guy isobviously not doing this
legally. He's running thisbusiness business out of some
basement of his in some southernstate. We'll just leave it
there. And, yeah, this is a guywho I my only frustration is

(01:03:50):
just that, you know, you wannasell a product and you wanna
tell the truth about theproduct. No problem.
I I wish you all the best andand the greatest success in the
world. But the fact that thisguy we know has actively lied to
countless people, that's thepart that I think a lot of us
have a hard time with. And wetalk about in Cuban cigars how

(01:04:11):
important it is to know whereyou're sourcing your stuff from
to be able to be confident thatit is real, that it is of the
age that people claim. And thisguy's the complete opposite of
that, so I just feel sad forpeople who he has clearly
deceived for years' time thatthink they're getting something

(01:04:32):
that they're not from this guy.

Rooster (01:04:34):
I think part of the reason why he was successful in
the beginning because youcouldn't really buy singles of
Cuban cigars,

Gizmo (01:04:43):
which Pagoda notes almost every time we talk about loving
a Cuban cigar at a high dollarpoint, you you're most of the
time, you're having to buyboxes.

Bam Bam (01:04:50):
And for some of us early in the journey In

Senator (01:04:52):
the states.

Gizmo (01:04:53):
In the states.

Senator (01:04:54):
In the states. Right.

Bam Bam (01:04:55):
Some of us early in the journey, that's an intriguing
opportunity.

Rooster (01:04:58):
And that's where he is. He's in the states. He's here.
Yeah. So for a lot of the guys,I mean, you know, we were

Gizmo (01:05:03):
I mean, all of us room.

Rooster (01:05:05):
Yeah. Even in this, we we were able to get some
singles, so they were decent.But the problem was when you ask
him, well, what ear is thiscigar? What's the age on it? And
he we couldn't tell you.
No information. His reason wasthe way I aged the cigars are
out of the boxes. So I have noidea what box this came out of.
That's why they were not colormatched, and he would age them
in Tupperware. But not knowing,and this was kind of early in

(01:05:29):
our Cuban journey, we had noidea you know, we knew what we
were smoking was most likely aCuban cigar.
I don't think they were fakes,at least in the beginning. But
not being able to purchase boxeswas a huge

Senator (01:05:44):
Red flag.

Rooster (01:05:45):
Red flag.

Senator (01:05:45):
Verify anything.

Bam Bam (01:05:46):
I mean,

Senator (01:05:46):
that that's the scary part. It's like, sure, in the
beginning, we had smoked enoughof those cigars to know what's
real and what's not. But forsomeone who's barely smoked any
Cuban cigars that's purchasingfrom him and this guy preys on
people, so he knows. He knew wewere discerning buyers. There's
no chance that he could sell usa fake Cuban cigar we wouldn't
immediately detect it.
But when he knows someone is newin this hobby, I'm told that

(01:06:09):
this guy hasn't slipped a ban ona cigar that is probably fake. I
mean, there's no way becausehe's proven to be untrustworthy.
This guy was lying to peoplesaying that their the scarcity
of Cuban cigars is gonna get sobad, no one's gonna be able to
find d fours or all thesecigars. You must buy what I have
now because you'll never findthese things.

Bam Bam (01:06:29):
I mean,

Senator (01:06:30):
it was the biggest lie of all time.

Bam Bam (01:06:31):
That's true.

Gizmo (01:06:31):
And he keeps iterating the bullshit.

Bam Bam (01:06:33):
Correct.

Gizmo (01:06:34):
It's it's a constant

Bam Bam (01:06:35):
new story. To evolve.

Gizmo (01:06:36):
There's a there's a constant evolution in his lying.
And the reason why we talk abouton this podcast and and bringing
it up because of what happenedhere on Reddit, which I'll talk
about in a minute, is that thisis a warning to folks out there
that if it seems too good to betrue, it is. And we've talked
about that so many times. Andthis guy is just a scam artist,

(01:06:58):
and he's a liar, and he'spreying on people who are
looking for something that ishard to find, is scarce, and
they really want it.

Bam Bam (01:07:07):
Mhmm.

Gizmo (01:07:07):
And it's just in this small community of people that
we have in Cuban cigars andcigars in general, there's just
no room for this. It's just notappropriate, and it's not fair.
And there are so many goodvendors out there who are
selling good quality product atthe correct price, and you can

(01:07:28):
get the information you need.And you know what you're buying
is legitimate. We need to steerfolks away from this cult.

Senator (01:07:34):
And this guy, by the way, you know, just talking
about being dishonest, he wasactively telling people that
websites that we are certainsell authentic Cuban cigars.
He's perpetuating a bunch oflies saying that all the
websites are fakes. IHavana's,Terminal?

Gizmo (01:07:51):
Cigar Store?

Senator (01:07:52):
Cigar Terminal. I mean, sites we've bought from for
years. That's why we publish theguide that we have on our social
media. We know the authenticityof that product. And the guy's
actively lying to people andcreating this fear so that they
only buy from him.
And that's where when Gizmo sayscult, like, that that he's
created this environment wherehe and only he can be the

(01:08:14):
provider of Cuban cigars, whichis just a lie.

Gizmo (01:08:16):
He thinks he's the wizard of Oz. Like, there's this
curtain, and he operates in thisfantasy land.

Bam Bam (01:08:22):
Lot of

Gizmo (01:08:22):
And a lot of people buy into it.

Bam Bam (01:08:23):
It's a lot of lessons to be learned here.

Rooster (01:08:25):
I mean, had he been more transparent about the whole
thing and not lie about and giveyou fake details about this, you
know, that's what turns peopleoff. I mean, it's okay if you're
selling singles because a lot ofpeople, you know, wanna try
different markers, but are notable to or don't want to commit
to a whole box. See if we canget a fiber of something or a

(01:08:45):
singles or try different stuff.But be honest.

Bam Bam (01:08:48):
Mhmm.

Rooster (01:08:48):
You know?

Senator (01:08:49):
And if everything if I'm truly to believe that
everything this guy sells isreal, why not for those of us
who want to buy by the box, Whynot sell us boxes? Correct. You
don't have to take every singlecigar out of the box and do your
bullshit aging thing. Keep someof them in boxes for people who
buy in volume like us and sellsingles for the guys who wanna

(01:09:10):
buy singles. That's not anoption, and that's what's a
massive red flag to me.

Gizmo (01:09:15):
And the Padrons that you mentioned, he also sells
Davidoff. You can get all ofthose by the box.

Bam Bam (01:09:20):
That's right.

Gizmo (01:09:20):
No problem. Yep.

Bam Bam (01:09:21):
Yeah. Wonder

Gizmo (01:09:21):
why. Not a problem. Wonder why. I can't imagine why.
Correct.
So the reason why we're bringingthis up again after so long, is
not to just trash this guyagain, but on Reddit here, the
user kind blackberry did a 4part expose on this guy, and I
couldn't believe the volume ofresponses. I mean, we're talking

(01:09:42):
hundreds of people saying thatthey had dealt with this guy
before, gotten kicked out ofgroups. And then a lot of you
know, there were folks toosaying, wow. I still buy from
this guy. I thought he waslegitimate.
Like, it was a good publicservice that happened.

Pagoda (01:09:54):
Mhmm.

Gizmo (01:09:54):
And what I love is the response that happened after
this whole Reddit thing blew upthat this guy first, he closed
his group, so the group is gone.Now he has a little, like,
exclusive group. I got kickedout of both a long time ago for
opening my mouth, if youremember.

Bam Bam (01:10:08):
Oh, we heard This is

Gizmo (01:10:09):
We remember. For the for the listener.

Senator (01:10:11):
I mean, this is like North Korea where, like, if you
voice an ounce of dissent, like,that's it. You're out. I mean,
Gizmo, this guy wanted to sendhim to a camp.

Bam Bam (01:10:19):
I mean,

Senator (01:10:20):
it was insane.

Gizmo (01:10:20):
Simply because I said I I forget. It was, you know, it was
when all the scarcity washappening right after COVID.
Right? During COVID, you know,in that kind of middle point
there where he was saying thatif you don't buy now, you know,
d fours are gonna be $50. 60,$70.
It's like, the guy's so full ofshit. Yeah. So, anyway, so he
then post a a a response to thiswhole Reddit thing without

(01:10:41):
saying anything about the Redditthing. Clearly, it was because
of this a day or so later. Hewrote an important update.
I've said it year after year,meeting the growing demand of my
customers has becomeincreasingly difficult. Over the
years, maintaining and sourcingenough Cuban inventory has been
a continuous challenge, and it'sonly worsened since COVID. The

(01:11:02):
12 days of Christmas back toschool events that I do just
murder my reserve inventory. Sohe's blaming his own sales for
his lack of inventory and hishis inability to source. Like,
just comical.
He says, with that in mind, Ihave some exciting updates to
share about the changes comingin the next few months. 1st,

(01:11:22):
another firm is absorbing themajority of my business, and the
negotiations were finalized latelast year.

Bam Bam (01:11:29):
Is it 4 times earnings?

Rooster (01:11:31):
No. It's called the ATF.

Gizmo (01:11:35):
And the FBI he says this means that all of our custom
blends and New World productswill soon be available on their
website at prices consistentwith what you've come to expect
and global shipping as well. Byfunneling everything through
this new platform, it will makeordering much easier and more
convenient for you. It'll giveme more time to enjoy blending,

(01:11:56):
these blending boys, anddelivering unique products at
better price points. 2nd, I willno longer be able to continue
operating in the old world cigarmarket, the Cuban market, due to
the inventory challenges, risingprices, and other factors.
Again, additionally, dealingwith ongoing attempts to not
only tarnish my name, but mywife's name also has made this

(01:12:18):
aspect of the business lessenjoyable.
I feel terrible for this guy.

Senator (01:12:23):
Those are you his wife. This guy, if you've ever been on
a live auction with

Bam Bam (01:12:26):
this guy

Senator (01:12:27):
He's, like, screaming at her. Yelling at his wife like
she's, like, works in asweatshop for him.

Bam Bam (01:12:31):
Honey, make the pot roast.

Senator (01:12:32):
It's ridiculous.

Rooster (01:12:35):
He's a master blender.

Gizmo (01:12:37):
He's a master blender. Though he's a master
bullshitter. Those of you who'vebeen with me for years know the
effort and passion I've pouredinto this all as a hobby and not
by any means as an income I relyon. What a joke. Heck, probably
a 100 of you have been to myhouse and been a and have been
privy to see the operation.
I would love to go there and seethe operation. Okay. And our

(01:12:59):
families and children have madelifelong friendships. The time
has come to shift away from oldold world cigars and focus on
other adventures and get back toenjoying life.

Yeah. Outside looking in, this sounds like a
cult.

Gizmo (01:13:12):
Yeah. Finally, for my this is the best. Finally, for
my loyal customers, I'm stillhere to work with you 1 on 1 as
we transition to this new modeland liquidate the inventory.

Bam Bam (01:13:21):
Oh, yeah.

Gizmo (01:13:22):
Stay tuned for updates about the new website, which I'm
confident will offer a smootherand better experience for
everyone. This change will alsogive me the freedom to dedicate
time to enjoying new projects.Thank you for your continued
support as we take this nextstep forward, Mickey Mouse. I
mean, the bullshit is endlesswith this guy. I just love

(01:13:44):
again, the sales the salesevents are draining his
inventories to impossibly lownumbers.

Senator (01:13:50):
Yeah. And that inventory is low. I'm sorry. If
you've been on any Cuban cigarwebsite that sells legitimate
cigars, the inventory is great.Go to I have you you can find
most of anything you're lookingfor.

Rooster (01:14:01):
Yeah. I mean, it was low for, like, some time, but

Senator (01:14:04):
now it's

Rooster (01:14:05):
almost back to normal.

Gizmo (01:14:06):
You can

Rooster (01:14:07):
pretty much find anything.

Senator (01:14:08):
Also because the prices are now so aggressive that,
like, people are not buying andstocking up in the way that they
were before.

Bam Bam (01:14:14):
And

Rooster (01:14:14):
that's the main reason why he's not he's out.

Bam Bam (01:14:17):
Right? I'm just sitting here think absorbing everything
you're saying. You know,remember when we first started
smoking Cuban cigars, how almostgullible we were way back then?
No. It's kind of heartbreakingto think that guys and girls
that are looking for Cubans aregoing to someone like this.
It's truly damaging to what wedo. It is. Cigar industry
overall.

Gizmo (01:14:38):
And that is the point of discussing this. Yeah. It's
awful. You know, it's notbecause we enjoy No. Shitting on
this guy.

Bam Bam (01:14:44):
That's a lesson learned.

Gizmo (01:14:45):
This is a lesson learned. Pod. But on the pod, the public
service that KIND Blackberry didhere on Reddit that we're
sharing with the masses here isthat you really need to trust
your vendor. And if it seems toogood to be true, it is. And this
cult mentality that senatorpointed out when he was talking
about the way that this guyworks, it's just such a shady

(01:15:07):
way.

Bam Bam (01:15:07):
Of course.

Gizmo (01:15:08):
And and what we're doing is supposed to You know? We're
supposed to enrich and share andgive and, you know, we're always
sitting

Bam Bam (01:15:14):
with each other and

Gizmo (01:15:15):
share yeah. And educating. That's what we do
here. It's like it's just it's areal shame that this this
operation has existed for aslong as it has, and and I hope
that, that he's honest in thathe's shutting some of it down
and that people will learn tonot do business with people.
It's a

Bam Bam (01:15:30):
good lesson because you wanna tell people that are just
getting into Cuban cigars, askthose that aren't trying to sell
you cigars like this podcast.And there are many other
podcasts that aren't sellingcigars. Go to people that are
smoking them, that know whatthey are. Get some advice. Get
some direction.
Don't go to people like this.And there are probably a lot of
people like this.

Gizmo (01:15:51):
Exactly. And that listen. There are websites out there.
You know, chef Ricky has afriend who unfortunately got
scammed by swisscubancigars.com.And if you Google Swiss Cuban
cigars, you'll find stuff sayingthat they're legitimate because
they put up websites Yeah.
Writing about themselves thatthen Google crawled saying that
they're legitimate.

Bam Bam (01:16:09):
Unreal.

Gizmo (01:16:10):
You have to trust your vendor. Go to our Instagram.
Correct. Email us. Correct.
Like a lot of listeners do. Isthis a decent site to buy?
Should I buy these? Should I buythat? We're happy to help.
You need to trust your vendors.

Yep. And if something seems too good to be
true, do not ignore that. Thatis one of the first red flags

Bam Bam (01:16:30):
Mhmm.

That are gonna pop up every single time. Just trust
your gut trust your gut in thesethings. And the last thing you
wanna do is, as you said, talkto the vendor or ask your vendor
the question. Hey. Are these youknow, what do you expect the guy
to say?
He's not gonna tell you whathe's selling you as counterfeit.

Bam Bam (01:16:47):
Yeah. I sell fakes. Yeah.

You know? So, yeah, a 100%. You know, trust your
gut, do your research, and anddo your research on your
research.

Gizmo (01:16:57):
Alright, boys. It's time now to go to some listener
email. First one here from isfrom lizard Carlos. He says,
hello, lounge lizards. Happy NewYear.
It's been great to kick off theyear with your pods. It's always
in entertaining and insightful.I wanted to share a couple of
tequila recommendations for youto consider. Fuenteseca? Yeah.

(01:17:18):
Cosecha 2018.

Amen to that. We did the, so on our first tequila
deep dive, we didn't reallyspeak of this one much, but this
was the boneless bottle that Ibrought to the to Center's
Lounge.

Bam Bam (01:17:31):
Got it.

It was high proof. This was the I wanna say it was
the 2012 or 2008 vintage. Do notremember, the exact bottle.

Bam Bam (01:17:42):
That was a long time ago.

Senator (01:17:43):
And that's the one I had at that event in Chicago.
This is what you had with music

that yes. This guy knows what he's doing.

Gizmo (01:17:49):
Another one here, Nuebe Uno Tequila Blanco.

Nuebe uno. I'm not familiar with that. I'm I hope
he's not talking about 901,which was Justin Timberlake's
brand many years ago.

Gizmo (01:18:00):
I don't think so. I doubt that's the one. We'll look those
up. And he says here, on anothernote, I have to agree with
Pagoda.

Bam Bam (01:18:07):
There we

Gizmo (01:18:07):
go. Please stop saying I'd pay way more for this
bottle. The poor guy nearly hada heart attack.

Bam Bam (01:18:14):
He's a value guy.

Gizmo (01:18:16):
He's a value man. Now onto some onto a suggestion,
which I believe someone elsementioned something similar in a
previous episode. When givingyour ratings, could you hold off
on discussing the price of thecigar and the pairing until
after everyone has shared theirratings?

Bam Bam (01:18:33):
That's difficult to do.

Gizmo (01:18:35):
Is it we'll respond to that in a sec. He says he
continues, as someone who hasgone through the podcast twice
and is currently on a 3rd run,which, by the way

Bam Bam (01:18:43):
Wow.

Gizmo (01:18:43):
Is unbelievable. Thank you, lizard Carlos.

It shouldn't be difficult to do. We get the
split wise a year later.

Bam Bam (01:18:50):
You know what? That's true, and it's a bankroll to pay
it off.

Gizmo (01:18:53):
I've noticed that price disclosures can influence how
the ratings come across. Theexperience with the cigar and
the spirit at the in the momentis what really matters, and
those who are willing to pay ahigher price will ultimately
make that choice. Revealing theprice upfront feels like it
detracts from the purity of theratings. Additionally, I'd
suggest having everyone sharetheir ratings individually

(01:19:13):
before explaining their reasons.This could help eliminate any
indirect influence within thegroup and allow for more
authentic feedback.

I think that's stuff to do because anyone you know,
until you've smoked a cigar, inmost cases, you're not willing
to dish out a large sum of moneyfor a cigar you've never had and
not knowing its pedigree. And,yeah, that might be something
you're willing to do after thefact.

Gizmo (01:19:39):
The one thing I I took from the suggestion here is I
know sometimes we'll get halfwaythrough the ratings, and then
someone will say, hey. How muchis this bottle again? Mhmm. You
know, to me, I do think thatvalue plays into the ratings on
both the CR and the pairing.Sure.
So I think doing that beforehandso everybody has complete
information, that is absolutely,I think, a a workable solution

(01:20:00):
to to what lizard Carlos issaying here.

I think the perfect example of that is a Don Fulano
20.

Gizmo (01:20:06):
But I knew what that price was from the beginning.
$250.

Senator (01:20:09):
But I I just like I'm sorry. To me, this is this is a
macro thing. Like, any product,that that's like saying, like, I
wanna go test drive a car andhave someone sell me the car and
not tell me the price until thevery end. And it's like, you sit
in the car, and if they tell youthe car is $50,000 or a
$100,000, I mean, how you feelabout that experience is

(01:20:29):
dramatically different. Like, ata $100,000, everything better be
damn perfect.

Pagoda (01:20:34):
Correct.

Senator (01:20:34):
And at $50,000, you're willing to make concessions. So
I just feel like the same thingwith a cigar. Like, my
expectation for a cigar that is$60

Gizmo (01:20:43):
Oh.

Senator (01:20:44):
Has to and should deservingly be way higher than a
cigar that's $10. And that's whyI am going to be more forgiving
in how I rate. You know, theythey were able to produce this
at only $10. I I have to beforgiving in some areas. Like,
that's a tremendous value.
And if they can deliver anexperience that we enjoy, I'm

(01:21:05):
gonna reward that. But at $60,it better be damn near perfect.

Gizmo (01:21:08):
Correct. Absolutely right.

Bam Bam (01:21:09):
Now that goes opposite, like, with the cigar, like the
Aladina that we can get for $6.And we rate it a 10. A
tremendous extremely tremendousvalue. That's also why

Senator (01:21:17):
we rate it a 10. Right. Exactly. If it were $60, it's
not gonna be a 10.

Gizmo (01:21:21):
No. No. The other thing too here that I'll say in the
way that we operate is that ifyou know? And and we experienced
this 2 weeks ago with the myfather, the judge, the cigar of
the year, cigar aficionado. Youknow, I I gave it a 3.
There were a couple fours.Pagoda gave it a 6. You know?

A decoder.

Senator (01:21:38):
In case we forgot it.

Bam Bam (01:21:39):
Let's not relive that.

Gizmo (01:21:41):
My point is though that that I am not I am not peer
pressured or feeling influencedby anyone else in the room
because our whole goal here isto provide value for you out
there, our listeners. So I Idon't think anyone in this room
is gonna be swayed by anyoneelse in this room because at the
end of the day, what we rate itdoesn't really affect us per se.

(01:22:04):
We're trying to give you themost accurate representation and
and rating of what weexperienced in the room that
night. So to me, like, ifsenator says this cigar is a 6
and I rate it a 10, like, we'regonna walk out of here. It's
there's no different.
There's no change. You know? SoI I don't feel that that is a
material thing for us. Like, I'mby the before we rate, I know

(01:22:26):
what I'm gonna rate this cigar.

Sure. Yeah. And and I think at times, you know,
there was a cigar. I forget whatit was, but Pagoda gave it, you
know, maybe 2 points lower thaneveryone else, and I rated after
him. And because of that, I didalmost wanna give it a point
higher just to balance out therating, but I'd refrain from
doing so.

Bam Bam (01:22:44):
Don't do

that. Because

Gizmo (01:22:44):
it needs to be accurate. Yeah.

Correct. So, yeah, I I think we're all mature enough
here in on this panel to

Bam Bam (01:22:49):
Sometimes.

Gizmo (01:22:50):
And I hope that lizards out there who look at our
ratings guide on the website ofof the historical ratings we've
done, each individual rating isthere. You can see some of them,
certainly cigars that performwell, we're all kind of on the
same page, and other times, it'sall over the place. You know, if
if people are experiencing, youknow, different things in a
cigar or enjoying it versussomeone else. So I'd encourage

(01:23:12):
you to look at that and, youknow, read the ratings and see
what, see what you think. So hefinishes here, I've been a
tequila drinker for years, andI've never really ventured out
outside of that, but I finallydove into trying some
Argentinian wine, Macallan 12year sherry cask, Oban 14, which
I found on sale for $54 at myfavorite store rooster, Costco.

Pagoda (01:23:34):
No way. Are you sure that's Oban or it's Obana?

Costco needs to hit the bingo card.

Pagoda (01:23:42):
$54? Yeah.

That that's been

Gizmo (01:23:45):
That might be the center square.

Yeah. Maybe 12 episodes in a row now.

Gizmo (01:23:49):
As for Paul Roger, let's just say this bottle is
absolutely amazing. Cheers,senator.

Senator (01:23:55):
Love that.

Gizmo (01:23:56):
He says, thanks again for all the great content you're
creating. I look forward to moreamazing episodes this year.
Cheers, lizard Garifo.

Bam Bam (01:24:05):
Good email.

Gizmo (01:24:06):
What a great guy. Yeah. Great email. So, boys, before we
continue in our emails, we havea couple more. We're coming to
the end of the second, 3rd.
We're coming into the last 3rdnow on the Paul Garmirian 25th
anniversary in Bellicoso. What'severybody thinking?

Rooster (01:24:19):
The cigar has gotten heavy. It's gotten, like,
nicotine heavy.

Oh, yeah. Now. Yeah. Am I right? 1000%.

Gizmo (01:24:26):
I'm not experiencing that.

Bam Bam (01:24:27):
Neither am I.

Pagoda (01:24:28):
I've not.

Gizmo (01:24:29):
No. I've not I've not really experienced a material
change in the

Bam Bam (01:24:34):
I feel like it's gotten buttery, salty, for me.

Gizmo (01:24:38):
Yeah. Yeah. I'm enjoying it here.

Bam Bam (01:24:40):
It's fairly smooth. I can't say that I hate it.

Yeah. No. No. Not at all.

Bam Bam (01:24:44):
I I kinda like this right now.

Gizmo (01:24:46):
I do too. I I I remain intrigued and entertained by the
cigar. I've used those words acouple times tonight. I I'm I I
So I I find it it's you knowwhat, though? It's not a casual
smoke.
It's not that.

Bam Bam (01:24:58):
That's true. It's not a casual smoke, but where would
you slot this in, let's say, ifyou could get a box or a couple
of these?

Pagoda (01:25:03):
Well, would you slaughter this?

This is gonna be an occasion smoke.

Gizmo (01:25:05):
Yeah. This is a good question. This is occasional.
Definitely occasional.

Occasional waxing.

Gizmo (01:25:08):
But I think it stands alone.

Bam Bam (01:25:10):
Senator scowling. So

Gizmo (01:25:11):
It stands alone in its flavor profile. I'm sorry. It
does.

Bam Bam (01:25:14):
Do you not like this at all?

Senator (01:25:16):
I I don't like how this is finishing. I don't. Wow. You
know, I said I was confusedearly on, and I held out hope
because there were differentdirections that this cigar could
take. Some of which would appealto my palate and others which
would not.
And, it's just still ending toodry. I just need something more

(01:25:38):
interesting in this flavorprofile than, like, these dry,
earthy notes with just teasingus with a hint of sweetness
Mhmm. When it needs far more tobe a balanced cigar.

Bam Bam (01:25:53):
It's like your mom handing you an M and M when you
were a kid. You want a handful,and you get one. And then you go
back to the border.

Gizmo (01:26:04):
Begode, you're nodding as a senator speaking. You seem to
agree with him?

Pagoda (01:26:08):
Yeah. Pretty much. So I've been on, you know, the
journey throughout. I it's been,I think, you know, having the
rum has really helped. Withoutthe rum, I think, you know, this
is one of those cigars I wouldhave put down, although I don't.
You know, I tend to smoke it tothe end, but still not really
enjoying it. And, you know,you'll hear more around the

(01:26:29):
radar.

Rooster (01:26:29):
I know I know what happened with your cigar. You
didn't recut it.

Pagoda (01:26:33):
Ah. No. But the smoke output has been great.

Bam Bam (01:26:36):
It has. Combustion. Let's see it. It's been amazing.
You haven't seen this puff?
There you go.

Senator (01:26:44):
Well alright. Alright.

Gizmo (01:26:45):
Oh, that's better than the my father. Nice smoke output
there.

Bam Bam (01:26:48):
Not that good, but we'll take it.

Gizmo (01:26:50):
Alright, boys. A couple more listener emails here, and
we'll get into the ratings. Thisone is from Blizzard Shawnee
Bro. He writes us a lot. Alwaysgreat to hear from him.
He says, guys, as a fan oflighter cigars, I think you guys
would like Lampert. Lampert, l am p e r t, and Castaglia stuff.
We did do a Castaglia cigar, Ibelieve, on the podcast.

Bam Bam (01:27:09):
Did we?

Gizmo (01:27:10):
I believe we did. I think it was, battle of the brave or
something or sister of thebrave. Vaguely remember.

Rooster (01:27:18):
I believe you

Senator (01:27:19):
said you were

in the market.

Gizmo (01:27:20):
Yeah. We definitely did that, I think. He says here the
castagli Mireva Spalato number 2in particular is an amazing
smoke with a lot of nuance. Sowe'll eye up doing those. We'll
check those out.
This one's from Lizard Grizzly.He also writes this a lot. Great
to hear from these guys. Hesays, hi, guys. I wanted to make
a suggestion for a cigar to tryafter hearing and he list of

(01:27:41):
very not kind name to TuxedoTimmy.
After hearing Timmy complainthat you guys don't do larger
format cigars and also keepingin mind budget, what about
trying the New World PunchSignature in Robusto? It's a 54
by 5 inch cigar, and I've reallybeen enjoying them lately. It
could be a nice jumping offpoint for getting into larger

(01:28:01):
ring gauges and also addinganother New World cigar from an
Old World brand that hastransitioned into the New World.

Pagoda (01:28:08):
Russo's gonna love it.

Gizmo (01:28:10):
I think so.

Pagoda (01:28:11):
Think so too. You like?

Senator (01:28:12):
A Dominican punch? I'm just confused. That's a Robusto,
but it's 54 ringgit. Yeah. Iguess

Gizmo (01:28:18):
it's probably a Robusto extra, technically.

Senator (01:28:20):
I mean, that's not a normal Robusto.

Gizmo (01:28:22):
Or a Robusto Grande. Double Toro? Double Toro. That's
like

Rooster (01:28:27):
a that's episode 1 callback.

Gizmo (01:28:30):
Alright. And finally, from Lizard Detaniel, he says,
hi, Giz. Hope all is well withyou. I'm curious if you guys
have ever taken on the moldversus plume debate on any of
your pods in the past. If yes,can you point me to which
episode?
If not, would you considerrepeating your information on
this topic? I know this has beenin people's minds recently

(01:28:52):
given, Jaseem's video. That'sone of Habanos' influencers with
the fancy suits and all that,and it would be great to see
where you guys stand on theissue. Separately, I recently
found something which wouldappear in my cigar to be plume
and curious for your, curiousfor your thoughts. Thanks, and
warm regards kindly, lizardNathaniel.

(01:29:15):
So there's one quick answer tothis. Plume is always mold. If
you have any white moldy lookingsubstance on your cigars, it is
mold. Plume does not exist. Itis a myth created by cigar
retailers who keep their cigarstoo wet, and, they sell it as an

(01:29:36):
aging component and a flavorcomponent and everything else.
Listen. If you want to smokeyour cigars with some white dots
on it, be my guest. However,there is no distinction between
plume and mold. Plume is mold.Now if you want some technical
data on this, you can go tofohcigars.com, go to the forum
at Friends of El Habano.

(01:29:57):
Rob Iowa, for many years now,has a bounty available to anyone
proving that plume is not moldscientifically. It's a high
dollar bounty, and it has notbeen proven. There's been
scientific studies. Guys haveput it under microscopes,
etcetera. Plume is mold.
There's a lot of differentvariations of tobacco mold that
can exist. However, there is nosuch thing as plumes. So any

(01:30:19):
retailer telling you that,again, is bullshit. So, if you
have white dots on your stuff,wipe it off, bring your humidity
down on these cigars, get rid ofit, change your environment. You
do not want that.
If it's on the foot of the cigar

That's garbage.

Gizmo (01:30:35):
You need to throw those cigars out. Correct.

And I I think that's ultimately what people are
looking for. They just wannaknow, should they throw these
things out or smoke them? And asGizmo said, if it's on the foot,
get rid of it. If it's on thesurface, wipe it off, lower your
humidity, and then have at it.But

Senator (01:30:49):
And when we say the foot, we don't mean on the
wrapper by the foot. We meanliterally Mhmm. Like, it has
gotten to the inside of thecigar.

Bam Bam (01:30:57):
Exactly right. You

Senator (01:30:58):
don't wanna be smoking and inhaling mold, but anything
on the wrapper that is whitemold will easily wipe off and
should not be thrown out.

Bam Bam (01:31:07):
I do

Senator (01:31:08):
wanna make that clear. So hopefully that helps.

Pagoda (01:31:11):
You might even wanna water that cigar. You know, put
it under

Bam Bam (01:31:14):
a tap. Sprinx rinse off the

Gizmo (01:31:16):
mold with more water. Yeah.

Bam Bam (01:31:19):
You know, it's been a long time since anyone has
attempted to do that again.

Gizmo (01:31:22):
Yeah. We haven't

done that yet.

Bam Bam (01:31:24):
We kinda like it.

I did it a couple weeks ago. I forget

Bam Bam (01:31:27):
which Did you?

With which cigar.

Bam Bam (01:31:28):
Wow.

But it was just a little on the dryer side.

Gizmo (01:31:32):
And

I did it to protect the wrapper as I was smoking it.

Bam Bam (01:31:34):
If you do find mold, I would take all the cigars out of
that box. I would wipe theinside of that box out as well.
Wipe the cigars and put themback in. Maybe even keep them on
your desk until you can get yourhumidity down.

Gizmo (01:31:45):
Listen. At the end of the day, plume or mold is not gonna
develop unless the humidity andtemperature situation is high.
And and temperature being aroundroom temperature is fine. There
is a myth out there abouttemperature that you need to
keep your cigars at 50, 60degrees. Room temperature is
fine, 70 degrees Fahrenheit.
It's all about the delta betweenhumidity and temperature

(01:32:09):
resulting in the percentmoisture content in the cigar,
and it's not going mold is notgoing to develop on your cigars
if your humidity is low enough.So k. And your temperature's
low.

Right for it.

Gizmo (01:32:20):
Yeah. The conditions have to be right.

So to add context to that, I mean, you guys have some
really old cigars. Right? SoMhmm. Rooster, what's the oldest
you're shaking your head no.

Pagoda (01:32:31):
Oh, yeah.

Bam Bam (01:32:31):
Yeah. He's got cigars from 1938.

Did do they have any plume

Pagoda (01:32:35):
on From 18/14. No. No. No.

Gizmo (01:32:44):
No. No. No

Rooster (01:32:44):
plume on my cigars. But, Giz, you might wanna
mention, like, how to lower thehumidity down, you know, in a
pinch.

Bam Bam (01:32:50):
Yeah. I need

Pagoda (01:32:51):
a cylinder.

Bam Bam (01:32:52):
Yeah. In a pinch. I just wanna cylinder.

Gizmo (01:32:54):
No. The best way to do it, if if I if I, for some
reason, which would never happenunless there was an emergency in
my house and I couldn't get tomy collection for a certain
period of time. If I found somesort of mold or, quote unquote,
plume situation on my cigars, Iwould isolate the ones that had
mold. I'd put them in aTupperdort, and I would get
Boveda 58% packs, and I would Iwould isolate them from the rest

(01:33:18):
of my collection, make sure therest of my collection's humidity
is also reducing so they don'thave mold, and then allow those
isolated cigars to come down.Listen.
Cuban cigars smoke best between61 65% relative humidity.
Relative is the keyword. They'rerelative to room temperature, 70

(01:33:39):
degrees Fahrenheit ish, and newworld cigars, I believe, smoke
better between 64 and 67. Somefolks like it a little higher.
But once you get over 70%humidity, when you're at room
temperature, you're you'reputting yourself in a position
for mold.

Rooster (01:33:55):
The cigars are also not gonna burn well.

Gizmo (01:33:58):
No. You're gonna have burn issues. You're gonna find
water and wine. Yeah. Yep.
Yep. Yeah. So that's the in,that's the answer to that
question, wizard Nathaniel.Thanks for writing in. If you
have any other questions or anyother listeners out there
experiencing this, feel free towrite us.
We're happy to help. And that'sthat, boys. Yeah. Great great
batch of emails tonight. Thankyou all, for writing us.

(01:34:19):
We love hearing from everybody.So, boys, we're coming to the
end of our evening here with thetra Riviera's extra old Agricole
rum from K and L Wine Merchants.

Senator (01:34:31):
Alright. Because before the French, like, really get
upset, the first word

Pagoda (01:34:36):
Trois. Trois.

Senator (01:34:37):
Trois. Have you not heard of a menage a trois? I
mean, come on.

Bam Bam (01:34:41):
Well, he well, this is a good well, this is a there's a
there's a fucking argument.That's not nice.

Gizmo (01:34:48):
That's not nice. That's not nice.

Senator (01:34:50):
French word everybody does know.

Gizmo (01:34:53):
That's true. I'll try it again.

Bam Bam (01:34:54):
Bam approved activities.

Gizmo (01:34:58):
Alright, boys. It's time to move into the ratings. First
with the Trois Riviera. There wego. Extra old Agricole rum.
Bam bam, you're up.

Bam Bam (01:35:11):
Not that easy because I have enjoyed this. Do you I
really have. Do

you need a second helping?

Bam Bam (01:35:17):
I I'm gonna have I wanna dig into this after after
we record, but I think I'm at afirm 8. The cost, you know, it's
it's a bit it's a bit expensive,but the experience, very, very
rich. I'm still getting caramelon the finish. On the nose, I
get really a deep vanilla. Isthere heat a little bit, but I'm

(01:35:38):
enjoying it.
It's very it's a very enjoyableheat. So I'm at a 8.

Gizmo (01:35:41):
K. Chef Ricky.

I'm also at a very firm 8 here. I think it's a
complex rum. I had a secondhelping second time around, got
even sweeter. Mhmm. Much morerounded.
The I I did encounter some notesome parts with the cigar where
it got a little tannic, and Ithink that was a cigar imparting
its own influence. But I didenjoy it. I just think it added

(01:36:06):
to the complexity of the rum. Ilove the nose. I love the the
smell of cooked sugarcane, and Iand I love how the cognac
barrels influenced us.
So, yeah, it's a firmate for me.

Gizmo (01:36:16):
Alright. Pagoda. I'm at

Pagoda (01:36:18):
an aid as well. I think when I smelted initially, it
was, just a bit tough to take,but then as it aired out, I
think it was, so much better.Like, it was fruitier, sweeter,
just on the nose. And then,obviously, while having it, I
really enjoyed it when theviscosity did not need you know,
like, with drums, I will also gofor ice. I haven't asked for ice

(01:36:41):
at all.
It was very easygoing. A littlebit of sharpness in the end,
which I really enjoyed in thisparticular rum. Yeah. It's an 8
for me.

I just wanna point out that having me on the
podcast has really helpedconserve water.

Gizmo (01:36:56):
It has. Correct. Pagoda's a new

Bam Bam (01:36:58):
man situation here. He's evolved.

Pagoda (01:37:00):
I've evolved.

Gizmo (01:37:02):
So for me, it's a 9. I'm honestly surprised, that the
other guys in the room, giventhe positive stuff you've the 3
of you have said so far senatorhasn't, rated yet, but I love
this rum. I I think it's great.I think the price point's a
little high at a 150, but Iloved it from the the nose to

(01:37:22):
the first sip, how it pairedwith this cigar, how it could
pair with other cigars. I feltlike it was the next level up
from some of the other rums thatwe've had in its flavor profile.
I love the the the vegetal stuffabout it. I love the
interesting, you know, complexflavor profile. I I really loved

(01:37:43):
it. I really loved it, and I'msurprised I'm the first 9. Very
happy with this.

Bam Bam (01:37:48):
Well, you may not be.

Gizmo (01:37:49):
Senator.

Senator (01:37:51):
So I'm with the majority of the group. I'm also
at an 8. And and it's not that Idisagree with anything you're
saying, Giz. I just think Ican't not factor in the price.
And we've had lots of differentrums.
I mean, there's only one otherrum that we have felt we need to
spend a 150 or more for, and andthat was a 10. I mean, that's as

(01:38:12):
good as it gets. That's thatSantiago 20 year out of Cuba. I
think for this, it's a complexrum. It's really satisfying.
I think it it just drinks like apremium spirit. I mean, you
don't need ice. There'scomplexity. I think, you know,
the first thing you your firstexperience with this rum, you

(01:38:32):
are immediately, like, kindashocked by how sweet and
sugarcane forward it is. Andthen the more you drink it, you
just keep picking out theseother notes that are right there
with it.
And so I think they did areally, really nice job when
they made this. I think this isa great after dinner drink. I
think with a drier balancedcigar, this is a perfect

(01:38:54):
pairing. Not that it can also gowith a sweeter cigar. I think it
can.
I just think, like, the idealpairing would be with something
on the drier, more balancedside. I would definitely drink
it again. I would definitelyrecommend it. And I just only
wish it was a bit cheaperbecause it's not something that
I would buy as often at thatprice point. And, again, at that

(01:39:15):
price point, it's gotta be aperfect experience, and I think,
it could use some more balanceif I was going to more regularly
pursue this as like a occasionspecial occasion type spirit.

Bam Bam (01:39:28):
I was about to go there. I think this would be
great in the winter. Definitelyaround the holidays. It's got a
warming effect to it. I don'tsee myself drinking this in the
spring or summer, but fall andwinter, great candidate for
that.

Gizmo (01:39:41):
Alright, boys. The formal liquor rating tonight on the
Trois Riviera single barrel rumfrom K&L Merchants is an 8.2.
Great score.

Bam Bam (01:39:49):
Nice score.

Gizmo (01:39:50):
Great score. I gotta I gotta ask you guys a question.
And, senator, you specifically,because you talked about price.
What do you think the pricewould be to move you to a 9 from
a value standpoint on this rum?

Senator (01:40:01):
I've got it right in my head. Me too. 80 to $90 a
bottle.

Bam Bam (01:40:04):
I I was gonna go about maximum a 110. 100. Yeah. Max
110. See, I

Pagoda (01:40:09):
I would have been much, much lower on that because

Bam Bam (01:40:12):
Well, you're a

Gizmo (01:40:13):
value guy. Nobody's surprised.

Pagoda (01:40:15):
I'm I'm a value guy, but not only that. You know, used to
How how much forgot it? Youknow, you can have rums, like,
which are 12 years age, like, inthe Florida County. And is it
that much more different whereyou're paying a $100 more for
this? Listen.
There's a lot of room for it tocome down.

Bam Bam (01:40:30):
That's all

Pagoda (01:40:30):
I think.

Gizmo (01:40:32):
But there's I also think too, I at at 51%, this did not
for me drink like a hot spirit.And and I think pairing with
cigars, like, I'm actuallylooking for it. We have about
half a bottle there. When weleave this podcast, when we hit
stop on this recording

Senator (01:40:48):
Gizmo's gonna kill it. I I

Gizmo (01:40:50):
can't wait to have this with an Aladino and a Padronex
placebo. That's my lineuptonight. I can't wait to pair
this with both of those and seehow it does because I think it's
going to do very well, and Ithink this is a an interesting
complex rum and the first thatwe've actually rated that's an
Agricole that I think would workwell across the gamut of cigars

(01:41:11):
that we smoke.

Bam Bam (01:41:11):
Uh-uh. I think the exclusive was a great pairing.
Aladino for me may be a

Pagoda (01:41:15):
question mark about the thin.

Bam Bam (01:41:17):
Just a small just a slight question.

I think it could overwhelm the Aladino just a
little

Bam Bam (01:41:21):
bit. Yeah.

And this is also the second Agricole because the
Clarion was an Agricole.

Gizmo (01:41:25):
Didn't rate that.

Oh, you didn't?

Rooster (01:41:27):
Now we're gonna rate that.

Senator (01:41:28):
We didn't

Bam Bam (01:41:29):
drink it. But the yeah. We're we're still

Pagoda (01:41:31):
waiting for it to air out. It's been a year. I think

Bam Bam (01:41:34):
the was a great pairing with us. I think it's the good
way about it. Yeah. Now whatCuban, guys, what Cuban would
you pair with?

Rooster (01:41:40):
Maybe a

Gizmo (01:41:41):
RAS. He said RAS.

Bam Bam (01:41:42):
Ramon Olonis. Yeah.

Especially someone number 3 all day.

Bam Bam (01:41:45):
Or number 1.

Gizmo (01:41:46):
Or number 1. Yeah. I think a Bolivar would be great

Bam Bam (01:41:49):
with this. Beep

Senator (01:41:50):
I agree with that.

Bam Bam (01:41:51):
The Royal Corona.

Gizmo (01:41:52):
Royal Corona would be awesome with this. Yeah. I
wouldn't go punch.

Bam Bam (01:41:56):
I wouldn't go No QD.

Gizmo (01:41:57):
Cohiba. I wouldn't go QD from Cuba. Nothing floral. I
would maybe go particus. I don'tknow how well I would like the
cinnamon type of thing that weget with the classic particus
with this.

A d a d 4 would do well. No?

Senator (01:42:10):
No. I think it would

Bam Bam (01:42:10):
But e 2 would be a great

Rooster (01:42:12):
E 2 would be good with this.

Senator (01:42:13):
For this. Yeah. Agreed.

Bam Bam (01:42:14):
D 4 is nice with this, but I think e 2 would be more in
parallel, maybe.

Senator (01:42:18):
The e 2 is drier Yeah. Which is what would, yep, go
well with this.

Gizmo (01:42:22):
Alright, boys. It's time now to move into the formal
lizard reading tonight on thePaul Garmirian 25th anniversary
in Belicoso. Brewster, you'reup.

Rooster (01:42:31):
I'm at a 7 for the cigar. I think at $25 price
point, there's a lot ofcompetition. No.

Senator (01:42:37):
No. We're not allowed to say the price.

Bam Bam (01:42:39):
Oh, sorry. Just kidding.

Gizmo (01:42:41):
Wizard Carrefour is gonna be mad.

Bam Bam (01:42:43):
Correct.

Rooster (01:42:44):
So there's a lot of competition, I mean, at that at
that point. But, I mean, thecigar, I mean, it started out
really spicy. It was a veryspicy cigar in the beginning.
You were getting a lot of whitepepper and black pepper notes,
which kind of did subside. Thehalfway point was probably the
most delicious

Gizmo (01:43:01):
Mhmm.

Rooster (01:43:01):
For this cigar.

Bam Bam (01:43:02):
Second half was great.

Rooster (01:43:03):
Second half was good. The last third for me, I mean,
it got a little bit heavier,punchier, kinda more like
nicotine heavy. So I didn'tenjoy the last 3rd. But having
said that, I mean, I'm at a 7

Gizmo (01:43:18):
for the cigar. Okay. Senator.

Senator (01:43:21):
I'm at a 6.

Bam Bam (01:43:23):
Wow. Oh,

Gizmo (01:43:24):
I think I'm surprised to hear that. Well, I You

Bam Bam (01:43:27):
didn't like the dryness.

Senator (01:43:28):
Yeah. I I think overall, as I've said, it's just
way too dry a cigar, which to meis not a balanced cigar. And I
am, like, a a pallet that skewson the drier side in anything.
Spirits, wine, cigars, you nameit. But this just did not have
enough of a sweet note tobalance out all the dryness.

(01:43:48):
I think the first third, likeRooster was saying, was very
spicy. I I don't think it helpedthe cigar. I I didn't find it
interesting. I think itdetracted from the flavor notes
that I was enjoying that thatwas overpowering. I think the
second third was definitely thesweet spot.
That's when I started to enjoyit, but my problem was then the
last third, I didn't enjoy. Andso, really, only about a third

(01:44:11):
of the cigar I was happy withand 2 thirds I was left
disappointed. The last 3rd forme, I lost a lot of the flavor
notes I was enjoying in the 2nd3rd, and I was just getting
tobacco. Like, I it had lost alot of those distinct notes that
I was able to pick out early on.So, you know, the things I will
say as far as, merits to thecigar, the construction was

(01:44:33):
actually very, very good.
Oh, yeah. Razor sharp burn. Theash held on.

Bam Bam (01:44:38):
Combustion was good.

Senator (01:44:39):
Combustion was very good. The draw was great.

Bam Bam (01:44:42):
Well made.

Senator (01:44:43):
So it's definitely a well made cigar. It was just the
flavor didn't deliver. And Ithink at a $25 price point, it
should never be the case thatfor my palate, I'm only enjoying
a third of the cigar. And so,you know, I I can't see myself
paying $25 to have this kind ofexperience again. It's a a 6 and
and a soft, you know, somewhatof a recommend in that.

(01:45:05):
If you like a really dry cigarthat's well constructed, this
will definitely suit yourpalate. There's no question
there. But for what I what Inormally pursue in a cigar, it's
not something that I would pickup, if I had absolutely nothing
else to smoke and someone gaveit to me. Is it smokeable

Bam Bam (01:45:22):
On an island. Sure.

Senator (01:45:24):
But is it really, you know, something ideal that I
would ever pursue? It's justnot.

Rooster (01:45:30):
I would be curious for trying some other bottlers out
of this. Yeah. Something elseout of the gourmet series, I
think it's worth trying.

Gizmo (01:45:39):
So for me, it's a 7. You know? I I found the cigar the
whole way through to beinteresting. It was complex. It
was different.
You know, we called out so manyunique flavor notes about it. I
thought it burned well. Ithought the construction was
very good. However, the cigar isnot for me. You know, I can
understand, and we talked aboutthis a couple weeks ago, on a

(01:46:01):
cigar we didn't enjoy saying wecouldn't understand how anyone
would enjoy that cigar.
I can understand, as senatorsaying Mhmm. Someone saying, I
really love this cigar. I I seemerit in it. However, it's not
for my palate. I probably wouldhave given it an 8, you know, to
lizard Garifot's email aboutprice.
If this cigar was $12 or $10, Ithink I might have been

(01:46:24):
comfortable getting to an 8 onthis.

Nailed it.

Gizmo (01:46:26):
But at $25, I can't get there. It's just it it's not
even in the ballpark of cigarsat that price point and the way
that it should, you know, youknow, should hit each of us and
should perform. I mean,construction, certainly, but
flavor wise, it was kind of likeI felt like I was playing ping
pong with it, you know, liketable tennis in the flavor

(01:46:47):
notes, and we were all doingthat. It was all over the place.
The last third was satisfying tome.
I did not experience Rooster wasmentioning, like, a nicotine
issue. You know? Senator said hedidn't really love how it
finished. I didn't mind how itfinished. I thought it kinda
took us on a little bit of ajourney, but the journey is not
for me.
I won't reach for this oneagain. But I'm intrigued to try

(01:47:08):
other Paul Garmirian cigars, andI think that we will have to
definitely do another oneprobably from the main gourmet
series somewhat somewhere downthe line. For all that being
said, boys, it's a 7 for me.Pagoda.

Pagoda (01:47:19):
It's a 6 for me. I think, this was, one of the
cigars. I think I was leadingtowards the score from the very
beginning. I was already at a 5to 6. I, you know, one thing I
must say, the wrapper did smellvery nice.
You know, and when you startsmoking, I did get a little bit
of hip hint. I don't know whereyou know, the sweetness coming

(01:47:42):
from, I think, the darkchocolate and then the banana I
got, and then that was it. Itwas after that, it was very
earthy for me, but a littletobacco earthiness, you know,
like, not the pleasantearthiness, which I typically
really enjoy as well. So, itdidn't leave a very, you know,
pleasant flavor in my palate atall. It was dry for sure.

(01:48:03):
I in fact, I had half a bottleof water for the first time
along with this. And I thinkwhen we got into the pairing, I
think it kind of helped, but didit really? Not too much. Having
said that, there were a fewreasonable puffs towards us,
middle of the cigar. But, youknow, spending $25, I don't

(01:48:24):
think I would be buying this topresent it to any friend or or
any of that sort of thing.
So for me, it's a 6. You know?It's not a recommend.

Rooster (01:48:32):
So the same score as the judge.

Pagoda (01:48:34):
Yeah. It

Bam Bam (01:48:37):
is. It is.

Gizmo (01:48:37):
It is. Good point, Rooster.

Pagoda (01:48:39):
I would not recommend that either. Right? And so it's
it's But I

Rooster (01:48:42):
think this was better than the Judge.

Bam Bam (01:48:44):
I agree.

Gizmo (01:48:44):
To be honest. No. Go ahead. This is light years ahead

Bam Bam (01:48:46):
of the

Judge. Yeah.

Senator (01:48:47):
Oh my god.

Pagoda (01:48:48):
The construction was great. You know, the smoke
output was fantastic. Take itfor what it's worth, but, you
know, that's a 6 for me.

Gizmo (01:48:56):
Okay. Chef Ricky.

Yeah. I'm I'm at a 7. You know, my favorite part of
the cigar was the 2nd 3rdentering the final 3rd where it
got a little creamy. I wasgetting some pine nut, little
sunflower seed. But everywhereelse, there was just kind of
this volley between blackpepper, white pepper, a little,
like, apple c, like, when youget those tannic notes of

(01:49:19):
accidentally biting into thecore of the apple, which is what
I think Bam was referencing withdried apples when you get some
of that bitterness.
You know, I I think it for thiscigar to be in my wheelhouse and
maybe all of ours, theredefinitely needed to be more
sweetness, more balance, morecocoa, maybe some baking spice,

(01:49:39):
and none of that was reallypresent. It was a lot of dry
tobacco earth, that was, thedominant flavor throughout this
the experience. The rum helpedit to to an extent, but I also
think that it affected theflavor of the rum. So, yeah, for
me, it's it's a 7. I think at$25 is a tough sell.

(01:50:00):
You know, the the packaging oror the presentation of the cigar
is not great, but the burn wasbeautiful. It was very
Davidoffesque, very clean burnline, very tight wrapper,
beautiful color on the ash. Ashheld up well. At one point, I
was pushing over 2 inches on anash there. So the burn quality
was great.
But, yeah, flavor wise, I I'dgive it a 7. This probably isn't

(01:50:24):
something I'll grab for again,especially at that price point.
I wouldn't be disappointed tosmoke it. But, yeah, I think at
best, it's a it's it's anoccasional cigar just to kind of
experience that and see whatelse you could pull out of it or
see if it would smoke again,similar to how it did the first
time for us.

Gizmo (01:50:43):
Alright, Bam.

Bam Bam (01:50:44):
Yeah. I think a 7 is a fair score. I I kind of enjoyed
this because it was sodifferent. I love the salty
butteriness and the savorinessof the cigar. There's like, as
senator said, I think a few ofothers said, there is a group of
people that would love thisparticular cigar.
I think a 7 is very fair.

Pagoda (01:51:03):
My question is, how many of us in the room are gonna go
and buy it?

Bam Bam (01:51:06):
None of us. Nobody.

Senator (01:51:07):
No. No one. And I I will say this. You know, what's
surprising to me and and alittle disappointing is when I
I'd mentioned I wasn't familiarwith this market. When I had
just quickly googled, all I keptseeing was people talking about
how they really love that thecigars usually like a lot of
cocoa and cream.

(01:51:28):
And I was like, oh my god. Itsounds amazing. That's exactly
the profile a lot of us love.

Bam Bam (01:51:32):
We didn't get that.

Senator (01:51:33):
So I I have to imagine that there are other Vitollas
maybe that deliver that. So Iwould be other wines. Other
lines. Yeah. And I I woulddefinitely be interested in
trying them, but that wasn't myexperience with this.

No. I also have to say just the word gourmet as a
chef drives me fucking crazy. II can't stand the word.

Bam Bam (01:51:53):
You know? To every market out there.

Gizmo (01:51:55):
You don't have a Sam, can you put that on your list of pet
peeves for 2025?

Bam Bam (01:51:59):
That's number 11.

That that is that is maybe number 2 for me. Oh. It's
the word gourmet

Senator (01:52:05):
TV dinner?

Bam Bam (01:52:06):
Oh my god. You know, I

hear my mom actually do oh, my son's a gourmet chef.
I'm like, mom, please. You know?Like, what the fuck is it? What
you are?

Gizmo (01:52:16):
See, now that we know that, we're gonna start
referring you as gourmet chefRick.

Bam Bam (01:52:19):
That's his new name. That's his new name. Yo. Gourmet
chef. Gourmet.
Did you enjoy your cigartonight?

Gizmo (01:52:25):
So, boys, the formal lizard rating tonight on the
Paul Garmirian 25th anniversaryin Belicoso is a 6.7. I think
that was fair

Rooster (01:52:34):
for the

Gizmo (01:52:34):
experience Yep. That most everybody had in the room.

It it would have been nice to see it at a 70.

Bam Bam (01:52:38):
Yeah. But the thing is

Pagoda fucked it up.

Bam Bam (01:52:40):
So Well,

Senator (01:52:41):
I'm with Pagoda on this one.

Pagoda (01:52:43):
You you should have rated it innate. Yeah. Just to
balance the score

Gizmo (01:52:47):
out. Pagoda's not gourmet. No. Well, no.

Pagoda (01:52:50):
He asked the question gourmet, you would've add
another percentage.

Bam Bam (01:52:53):
Correct. Pagoda asked the question, will any of us go
out and buy it? No. But thereare people that love this type
of cigar. It's for them.

Gizmo (01:53:00):
Yeah. You can see the merit in it. And it's And

Bam Bam (01:53:01):
it's for us. And it's okay.

Gizmo (01:53:03):
The experience we had tonight, it really does make me
wanna get to those things thatsenator just mentioned that he
read in reviews, like thesweetness, the cocoa, those
other things. I they it's gottabe in there. It just wasn't in
this cigar, and that's okay.

It makes you really wanna smoke an esquevo.

Gizmo (01:53:17):
Exactly right.

Bam Bam (01:53:18):
Oh, yeah.

Gizmo (01:53:18):
And I think we're all gonna be doing that after we,
finish this recording.

Senator (01:53:22):
I love all this exoscebo stuff.

Gizmo (01:53:26):
So, boys, let's go through it again. The Trois
Riviera's single barrel rum fromK and L Merchants scored an 8.2,
and the Paul Garmirian 25thanniversary and Belicoso scored
a 6.7. Both of those are debutson the pod tonight. And, boys,
we did not give out a lizard ofthe week, and we are going to
give lizard of the week to ourfriend, lizard shaky, who sent

(01:53:49):
us this awesome

Yes.

Gizmo (01:53:51):
And very generous gift of, tois Riviera's rum. So thank
you to lizard shaky. TaughtGizmo how

Senator (01:53:58):
to say tois.

Pagoda (01:53:58):
Correct.

Gizmo (01:53:59):
You did. So we really appreciate it, and anybody out
there can win lizard of theweek. All you have to do is send
us an email, a comment, a voicememo, or a fantastic bottle of
rum as lizard Shakey didtonight. Anybody can win. So,
please keep in touch with us.
Let us know what you're smoking,and let us know what you think.
And that's it for tonight, boys.A great night with you all, and,

(01:54:22):
happy birthday to our friend,Abuelo Rooster.

Rooster (01:54:26):
Thank you, sir. Birthday. Thank you.

Gizmo (01:54:27):
Hope you enjoy it. Of course, we have to thank our
sponsor before we close, Fabrica5. They're a great partner to
us. Go check out some of theircigars, and, we'll see everybody
next week. Hope you enjoyed thisepisode.
Thanks for joining us. You canfind our merch store and ratings
archive at our brand newwebsite, loungelizardspod.com.
That's loungelizardspod.com.Don't forget to leave us a

(01:54:50):
rating and subscribe on yourfavorite podcast platform. If
you have any comments,questions, do you wanna reach
out, say hello, tell us whatyou're smoking, email us,
hello@loungelizardspod.com.
You can also find us onInstagram atloungelizardspod. We
really appreciate your time, andwe'll, we'll see you next week.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

24/7 News: The Latest