Grandma’s Hooch, Exploding Bottles, And The Beer That Made A Man Fall Off A Desk

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A quiet Monday at a local brewery turns electric when a homebrew guild pulls up chairs and starts pouring stories. We begin with two teachers who fell for British cask ales, came home to stovetops and driveway boils, and helped fuel a club where curiosity ferments into craft. The thread runs through every glass we raise: the right community turns “someday” into batches, medals, and the kind of know-how you can taste.

Live from Kuhnhenn Brewing Co. https://kbrewery.com/

We ride the arc from origin tales to technique. Water chemistry becomes a secret weapon, revealing why southeast Michigan’s tap water is a dream for brewing and how salts and profiles shape style. Then the pours arrive: a wild, 18-year-old cherry farmhouse ale that over-carbonated itself into legend; a meticulous Belgian golden strong dry enough to pair with food, yet sneaky at 9.5%; and a velvet American barleywine hopped with El Dorado, all malt depth and quiet power. The mead table steals a scene, too: a fire cider sizer crafted from cider reduced over 18 hours and dosed with fireweed honey, plus a macadamia blossom bochet kissed by Amburana wood that delivers natural baking spice without a single clove. Along the way we unpack staves vs chips, surface area, aging time, and the real economics of scaling niche styles.

What ties it all together is the guild itself. First-Monday meetings mix social flights with pro-caliber education, from hops and IPAs to yeast behavior and carbonation targets. Members bring clean American lagers that chase consistency, herb-lifted basil wits that perfume the room from a half ounce of leaves, and fresh-hopped pale ales picked one day and brewed the next. Some alumni go pro, others just brew better, but everyone learns faster through honest feedback and shared palates.

Pour a glass and come hang with us as we celebrate the science, bravery, and joy inside every fermenter. If you love craft beer, mead, cider, or just a great story that starts with a hand-pulled pint, this one’s for you. Hit follow, share with a friend who brews or wants to, and leave a review telling us the one style you’re craving next. Cheers.

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Jamie Flanagan @DJJamieDetroit

Matt Fox @fox_beazlefox

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Merch www.WearingFunny.com

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_03 (00:01):
I said hey!

unknown (00:02):
Hey!

SPEAKER_03 (00:03):
Welcome to the Man Cave Happy Hour! I said hey!
Hey! Welcome to the Man CaveHappy Hour.

SPEAKER_04 (00:16):
We're gonna drink a fine whiskey and smoke a really
fine cigar.

SPEAKER_05 (00:24):
It is time for Happy Hour, the Man Cave Happy Hour,
Whiskey, Cigar, Spirits, thestories that go along with it.
I would be Jamie Flanagan.
You are Jamie Flanagan.

SPEAKER_06 (00:33):
Otherwise, sexy Matt Fox.
Um, the guy that's lookingstrangely at me, and I want to
go home with him would be AugustKitchener.
Oh, any time, buddy.
I got room for you.
I got a I got a cleanpillowcase.
Oh, yeah, just one?
Yeah, just one.
Okay.
That's all I got left.

SPEAKER_05 (00:49):
Oh my.
So socks by the side of the bedthat aren't as clean as you'd
want them to be.
All right, so make cave happyhour.
We are out and about.
We're at Coonin's brewery.
In Warren.
I always want to say distillerybecause it's always distilled,
distill, distill.
And I'm always like but uh we'rethe brewery and winery, uh, the
original OG location on MoundRoad in Warren.

(01:12):
Yeah and uh they're having abrewmaster get together.
What is it?

SPEAKER_06 (01:18):
Okay, it's the uh Kunning Gilder Brewers, and we
are joined by three of thefounders, and you can hear the
club back there all drinkingtheir beer right now.
Everything you guys bring inhere is your hobby beer, right?
Yes, correct.
All right, so tell us tell uswho you are because both of you
guys have been on this show, butdifferent context.
I'm Barry also, Mike Spears.
And you are on our show oncewith the Trian Mead, right?

(01:42):
But you guys really started hereas hobby brewers, right?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, tell us how that all gotstarted.
Well, tell us about yourchildhood.

SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
Tell us about your brew childhood.
Do we?
I mean, how far back do we go?
Do we go to England?
Wow, quickly, quickly, allright, quickly.

SPEAKER_06 (01:57):
So there was a light, and I saw it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:59):
And my mom and dad really liked each other.
No, well, so it kind of goeslike this that Barry and I we're
teachers together, and we got toknow each other pretty quickly.
And we started talking, like,oh, we're gonna brew beer, we're
gonna brew beer, right?
Of course, at the time we wereprobably gonna brew what we
thought was a great version ofButt Light.

SPEAKER_05 (02:21):
Um like an oxymora.

SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
We talked out our asses for a couple three years
at least about doing this, anduh, one of the things that we
did as teachers, I'm a foreignlanguage teacher, he's a social
studies teacher.
Is that he does he does spikewith the douche.
So uh we uh we were involvedwith a program that did student

(02:47):
travel overseas, so we wouldchaperone dozens and dozens of
kids all over the world, right?
So we were on a trip to GreatBritain and Ireland, and we
tried for the first time oh mygod, cask conditioned ales.

SPEAKER_04 (03:04):
Repeat that cask conditioned ales, specifically a
lovely thing the British call abitter, a banner, yeah.
We fell in love, right?

SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
Because we're still in love, like we'd had the quote
unquote micro brews before, youknow, Sierra Nevada pale ale,
that was a thing, and we likedthat kind of stuff too, but we
hadn't really experiencedanything like this, like locally
brewed, conditioned in a cask,in a basement, naturally
carbonated, you know, hand polewhere they you know they they're

(03:36):
pumping on this cask to pour thebeer, and we're like, Okay, this
is what we want to make, yes,right.

SPEAKER_06 (03:43):
And you had not you had or had made beer before.
We had not made beer yet.

SPEAKER_02 (03:50):
And then we actually named our first beer over there
before we ever brewed it.
But that's a whole differentstory.

SPEAKER_04 (03:55):
What was her name?
Well, it did involve a woman,but one of the teachers on the
group on in our group, um, acouple of uh Welshmen took a
fancy to her and they thoughtKit was quite the saucy minx.

SPEAKER_06 (04:07):
Ah, yes, yeah, they called her a saucy minx.
So we had a name for her beer,we just didn't have the beer.
And it is repeatedly on tap herenow.

SPEAKER_02 (04:15):
Yeah, so yeah, we the second they called her that,
we're like, that's what we'regonna call her.
It was immediate.

SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
It was like oh my god, that's our beer name.

SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
And when we got back, it was probably still
another year.
Then we brewed some beer and gotto brewing.

SPEAKER_06 (04:27):
And that means she was like in the driveway, or did
you do it here or in ourdriveways?

SPEAKER_04 (04:33):
Yeah, went to a hardware store, bought some
stuff.
Actually, our first batch was astovetop batch, just using
extract malts and uh maltextracts rather, and uh, and
that was successful, and thatwas enough to get us going.
And then we ended up in thedriveway because you need to be
outside to do that stuff.
Okay, so you made that beer.
Then how did it end up becomingthis club here?

SPEAKER_02 (04:52):
It was sitting amongst.
There was a go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 (04:55):
There was there was already a small group, a core
group of people that had startedto meet, but they were kind of
moving in fits and starts, andwe found out about it, showed up
to a meeting one night, and wehaven't stopped since.

SPEAKER_02 (05:07):
Yeah, that was 2006, I believe.
Somewhere around there.
So, um, we've been brewing for alittle bit at that point.
So we came to the homebrew shophere.

SPEAKER_06 (05:17):
Actually, maybe it was even before that, maybe
which was across the street herefor a long time.

SPEAKER_02 (05:22):
We'll have to look and the club is 20 years plus or
minus of two at this point.
So we came here to buy homebrewsupplies.
Uh, met our pal Skip.
Uh, well, actually, it was RaySherwood the first time we came
in.
Actually, running the brew shopinitially, the owner of brewer
at Sherwood Brewing, and uh gotus started here.
And there was a homebrew clubhere, so they had just started

(05:43):
it.
They were maybe eight, nine,ten, four members that had
founded it.
Barry and I were the first newmembers beyond the people that
had founded it, and we joinedthem and we've been in the club
ever since.

SPEAKER_06 (05:55):
So, what did you bring something of your homebrew
with you tonight to share here?
Because I know that's whatpeople do, everyone brings
something that they want to showoff from their best.

SPEAKER_04 (06:07):
I don't currently have anything in the pipeline,
so I didn't bring anything, butI did I did bring something.

SPEAKER_03 (06:12):
Yes, this is fun.
This is uh it's not it's notbrewed.

SPEAKER_04 (06:17):
This is not a beer, and uh it's um it well.
My family lovingly refers tothis as the hooch.
The hooch.
My grandma H or With a capitalH.
And so my grandma used to makethis, and um it's it's real
simple, it's just vodka, fruit,and sugar is really all it is.

(06:38):
Oh, you cook it down?
No, no, you just soak the fruitin it, and it'll you know, it'll
uh extract the juices from thefruit.

SPEAKER_06 (06:44):
Do you distill it in any way, shape, or form?
You just cook it out.

SPEAKER_04 (06:47):
It's already distilled, so basically we're
just flavoring it.
Put it in the cup, put it in thecup.
I brought it, and the beautifulthing about this stuff is I
mean, it's 80 proof vodka.
Um, and can you are you allowedto say which kind of vodka or uh
I bought it in a very tallbottle at a warehouse club
store, so it's Kirkland.

(07:08):
Kirkland, and uh so my grandmawould make this, and she always
kept it in a in a cabinet by thekitchen table, and we and we'd
be we'd be sitting around thetable, my grandpa and I, and my
brother-in-law, and my uncle,we'd be shooting the shit about
whatever, you know.
And uh one of us would one of uswould lean back, reach into the

(07:31):
cabinet, and pull the bottleout.
Well, then usually that was theend of any productive uh work or
anything for the afternoon.
Oh, that doesn't suck.
Oh, you're surprised.
No, that does not suck.
And there's a really great storythat goes with this.
It's a sleeper, mybrother-in-law's brother, that's
Steve.
We're all pretty tight.

(07:51):
And well, we were out tograndma's and we were drinking
on the hooch, and Steve had togo home and help his his wife
Jenny um uh decorate theChristmas tree.

SPEAKER_06 (08:00):
Oh, yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (08:02):
So Steve thought it was a good idea to get up on top
of his roll top desk to put thestar on top of the tree.

SPEAKER_06 (08:07):
Was the roll top up or down?

SPEAKER_04 (08:09):
It was it was it was in position where it needed to
be but he was standing on thesmooth top in his socks, and
yes, wait, wait, wait, wait,wait.
His feet shot out from underhim, he ended up in the tree.
He still can't live that onedown.
That was hell out of 30 yearsago.

SPEAKER_06 (08:28):
That's because of the hooch.

SPEAKER_04 (08:29):
Yeah, it's all because of the hooch.
Yeah, grandma's hooch, and I'lltell you, we went through a lot
of this stuff.
So I actually I I stumbled onthe recipe, grandma's hand
ready.
So after I got done sobbing, Iwent, okay, gotta make some, and
uh, and this is it.

SPEAKER_06 (08:44):
So, what did you cook this down?
Uh was it a it's real simple.

SPEAKER_04 (08:49):
You just throw frozen fruit and sugar into the
into the vodka and uh let itsoak for three weeks and then
filter.
Okay, what kind of berries didyou uh it's just raspberry, just
raspberry?
This particular one, yeah.
We made uh blackberry version,sort of uh grandma's yeah, you
know, and okay.
Uh but I gotta say it's betterthan actual yeshi.

(09:11):
But uh yeah, well you can useany fruit you want to do.

SPEAKER_06 (09:14):
I know that we're bold statement.
That's a bold statement becausewe were just drinking on the
icebox earlier.
Oh, yeah.
We had a bottle of icebox, yeah.
Yeah, the raspberry iceberg verygoochie, yeah.
It is, but what do you it's alager?
But on the back end, I'm like, Ilooked at August and I'm like,
yeah, wait for that Yeshi tokick in because it it's very

(09:36):
prominent because of that.

SPEAKER_04 (09:37):
Oh, they put a ton of raspberry in it here.
But this this is delicious, butyeah, and and you know, there's
other fun games you can playwith this too, you know.
Sure, put it, put it, put it inprosecco or something like that,
you know.
Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (09:54):
What's a sleeper though?

SPEAKER_06 (09:55):
You it is, it is not taste as strong as you can hear
the the gang has begun theirsocial hour and they're starting
to all try each other's stuff.
They get a little bit louder.
The word as the night goes oncomes to mind.

SPEAKER_02 (10:07):
We call this the sharing of the brews.
We have our meeting withbusiness.
There's usually business of likewhat's coming up.
We have a chili cook-off comingup on, I believe, the 19th,
whatever Sunday is closest tothe 19th of August at the second
Kunin.
Come support the club.
Uh, homebrew festival in August.
So we'll we do a lot of planningfor that, and then we also

(10:29):
usually have an educationalcomponent to the meeting.
So today we are talking abouthops and IPAs.
The last couple meetings, we haduh Steve Smollenberg, who's been
in the club for many, manyyears, talking about water
profiles, and you know, that's abig part of brewing is the water
chemistry here in southeastMichigan.
We're super fortunate we havesome of the best tap water on

(10:51):
the planet.
It's really good for brewingbeer.
Yeah, but depending on the styleof beer you're brewing, you may
adjust the water chemicals, youknow, you might add certain sort
of salts and things like that.
Yeah, things like that.
So he did all this.

SPEAKER_06 (11:04):
Is where it gets nerdy and cool.

SPEAKER_02 (11:06):
It does where it gets nerdy and cool.
Yeah, um, those conversations,you know, they start one way and
then they sort of evolve, youknow.
And at one point he's talkingabout something that wasn't on
you know, wasn't in the lesson,so to speak, but because
somebody asked a question and itwas fascinating.
We have so many members with somany varying degrees of
experience and years ofexperience that people will jump

(11:28):
in.

SPEAKER_04 (11:29):
So the educational component to this club is great,
and that's and not to mention wehave access to a lot of pro
brewers in the area who justcome to hang out, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (11:37):
You know, like when does this happen on the monthly
or on a quarterly?

SPEAKER_04 (11:40):
It does on the first Monday.

SPEAKER_06 (11:42):
I sometimes find myself here on the first Monday
of the month.

SPEAKER_02 (11:45):
Gee, I wonder why.
There's a plethora of folks fromthis club who have started as
home brewers and gone on to openbreweries.
Yeah, yes.
Zach, the owner of Urban Rest,was a former member of our club.
Um, who else do we got?
Anson Village Sunday.
We have uh Cadillac Straits.
Cadillac Straits Area.
Uh he's here.

(12:05):
We have uh um Stumble Bun.
He was in the club for a littlewhile.

SPEAKER_00 (12:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
Um isn't that a lions play?
That was my kind of is changinghis nickname and called.
I mean, lots of folks.
Uh Don from 51 North isdeceased.
Uh not well, Don's not deceased,the brewer is deceased.
Uh but so we've had a lot offolks come to this club and open
breweries.
Very nice are we doing the meadsfor four years.

SPEAKER_06 (12:32):
We have a beer that uh Nate put down.
Someone grab that guy behind youand hey, and get him in a seat
here for a second.
We need to talk about your beer.
He poured a beer here.
We're gonna someone surrendertheir spot here for a second.
You get the crappy chair.
Uh, your name, uh rank andserial number, sir?

SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
Uh Nathan Widener.

SPEAKER_06 (12:49):
Founding home.
OG.
OG, okay.
Easy gets.
So you brought this over here,and you put it down in front of
us.
Like, okay, and I'm like, we'regonna get John.
Nate, what what do we have here?

SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
So this is a uh it's uh it's a farmhouse ale that we
brewed with Dan Rogers and oneof our founders, other founders,
Ron Bridges.
Yeah, yeah, we did it with uhMichigan cherries and left the
pit in, so you get a little bitof that kind of quality coming
through at the end.

SPEAKER_06 (13:15):
Holy carbonation.

SPEAKER_01 (13:16):
Yeah, it's very carbonate.

SPEAKER_06 (13:17):
It's flying right out of my mouth.

SPEAKER_01 (13:19):
This beer was actually brewed right around the
time that we were forming theclub.
This is 20 years old, uh rightaround there, yeah.
Probably about 18 years old,yeah.
Yeah, 2008.

SPEAKER_06 (13:30):
The cherry character is amazing in that.
So let me ask that question.
Because that's the first thingthat hits you is the carbonate.
Why so heavily carbonated?

SPEAKER_01 (13:39):
So it has a brewer.

SPEAKER_06 (13:40):
Why so carbonated?

SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
Yeah, it was aged with the wild yeast on top of
it, so it continued to carbonateinside the bottle even after it
sat there for all those years.

SPEAKER_06 (13:48):
And it doesn't, you gotta make sure that sucker
doesn't blow up then, huh?
So I did have a couple of themthat were bottled.

SPEAKER_02 (13:53):
Okay, so CL2 are your two byproducts of
fermentation.
Right.

SPEAKER_06 (13:57):
So yeah, yeah, it continues to ferment in that
bottle.
That's a control level that youhave.
So it doesn't quite the squadhere.
Sometimes they will blow upideas.
We have quite the squad ofpeople here.
So, Nate, you're in.
Spears, you go find someone forthat chair now.

SPEAKER_02 (14:10):
Find someone to put in that chair.
I'll get somebody in this chair.
I'll get something veryinteresting.
Yeah, you go out there, go outthere and recruit.
That's the first time I've beenkicked out.
No, you're not gonna be kickedout, you're a recruiter.
You're a recruiter.

SPEAKER_06 (14:22):
Share, share, share.
So, Nate, I know you used towork here.

SPEAKER_01 (14:26):
Did you start brewing from working here, or
were you working here becauseyou were brewing?
I was brewing here first andhanging out with the uh we had
there was a couple of things.
Yeah, where I first got my winekits and everything.

SPEAKER_06 (14:37):
I all my supplies came from you know brewing world
too.

SPEAKER_01 (14:40):
Right on, right on, yeah, yeah.
It was right on the other sidehere of Kunin Hardware.

SPEAKER_06 (14:44):
Right on the other side of the other parking lot,
yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (14:46):
Yep, yep.
So uh used to used to pick upall my supplies and everything
and met a lot of people in theclub and or met people that were
gonna become the club.
So yeah, it was an awesome timethere.

SPEAKER_06 (14:55):
Yep, very cool.
One and only Bill Belair isjoining us now.
Welcome to the Man Cape Happy R.
What's going on?
So have you been a member of theclub here?
Uh six years of KGOV.
So six years.
Uh before that, I was in a clubcalled Men's Metro Anologists

(15:15):
and Zymergists out of Richmondfaster.
Metro Anologists and Zymergists.
So, and uh we mostly did menthat's very show rogety
sounding.
And uh, we did mostly wines, um,and I kind of like was their
beer contingent, but uh theykind of dissolved, it was a

(15:38):
bunch of old dudes drinkingwine.
Uh, and then after they kind oflike folded up, I found a new
club, and that was a KGOB.
So how long have you beenbrewing your own uh brewing
started in 2007?
25 now, so you're you've gotsome I've been doing it a while,

(15:58):
experience, if we will.
Yeah, and uh, I'm also the uhI'm beer czar for the KGOB, and
I'm the president and founder ofthe Michigan Mead Coalition.
Michigan Mead Coalition?
Yeah, nice.
So I actually brought twodifferent meads here.
If you guys want to try somemeads, twist my art.

(16:19):
So our first exposure to meadwas a wholly decent exposure,
and that was the Tri Axel guyshaving them down.
They had them in studio.
We had them in studio a coupleyears ago, honestly.
And yeah, it was I'd had theirmead, of course, but these guys
were predominantly a bourbon andspirits drinking podcast.
So to have that mead come in waslike, Oh, what the hell?
This is a thing, and especiallythey talked about how complex

(16:42):
and they're getting the certainkinds of honey.
So, what are we looking at here?
So, the two I have right now isa fire cider sizer.
So, a fire cider.
If you've ever heard of an icecider, an ice cider is they
basically um freeze out all thewater out of cider and leave

(17:03):
just the the sugars and thenferment that, and it makes this
very sweet, very alcoholic, veryviscous um uh cider.
Well, I did I did kind of theopposite of that.
I boiled cider for like 18hours.
So I went from uh it was like 18gallons of cider down to six

(17:28):
gallons of cider.
Wow, so concentrated the hellout of it.
Yeah, got rid of all the waterout of that way.
What did your house smell likeafterwards?
Oh, it was smelled amazing, itsmelled like just cooked apple
pie.
And then uh it like it boiledfor like 23 hours, and then uh I
used that with and then dosedhoney into it the entire time to

(17:52):
tell the yeast just dyed up.
Uh was it or like natural honey,or was it just honey out of the
bottle?
No, it's uh this is actuallymade with um with fireweed
honey.
So it's actually honey made fromthe the flowers that bloom after
a forest fire in like thePacific Northwest.
Yeah, it's just a bit morespecific than that.

(18:13):
My goodness gracious, man.
And this has won many awards ona full moon.
So the the literally the floweronly happens, it only blooms on
a full moon every 12 years.
The flower only only blooms andonly comes up after a forest
fire.
And so this is the honey madefrom uh the honey from that, and

(18:35):
then a sizer, because we we'renot probably they're probably
not familiar with sizer, is themix of a mead and a and a cider.
It's a sizer.
So this is roughly half honey,half cider, and it's uh 15 and a
half percent alcohol.
All right, we'll give it a shot.
It's not gonna go crazy withthese 15 and a half zers here.

(18:56):
School night, so they say it isa school night at the moment.
It is this one's mine.
Where's your lovely wife?
She also is in the business,isn't she?
She is, she is at home, did notfeel like drinking again, so she
decided to stick at home andthat's very responsible of her

(19:17):
and hang out with the dog.
Any children?
No children, just the dog, thedog, just the dog, and the dog's
name, Cooper, Golden Doodle,yeah, most adorable thing in the
planet.
Cooper's around Cooper's circle.
Cooper comes around wise eyes.
Oh, yeah, wise eyes wise eyes,yeah.

(19:38):
That tastes like it took you 23hours to get to the first
ingredient.
That's a that's a lovely,lovely.
This is not alcohol.
No, this is this is this isinfused water, is what it is.
This is 15.
This is made at home.
Holy snikes, man.
Yeah, this is professionalmachine professional level shit.

(20:00):
Wow, agreed, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_05 (20:03):
That is gorgeous.
So now, when you're creatingsomething like this at home,
this isn't something that couldbe done on a grander scale.
Oh, it does.
They do.
I mean, just because it seemslike it'd be so cost prohibitive
that this has just got to be apassion project.
I mean, uh, you're not gonnafind this, you're not gonna find
this tasting like this anywhere.

SPEAKER_06 (20:22):
You don't find a lot of this, no.
Uh, but I mean, ice ciders aremade in a lot of um you know,
like northern northeastern um uhOntario, yeah.
And um, so you get a lot of alot of ice ciders in Montreal
areas, in northern New York,things like that.

(20:44):
Um, Niagara area has a lot of alot of it too.
And so ice ciders are a littlemore popular than firesiders,
but firesiders are starting tobecome more of a uh a thing,
especially in areas that don'tnecessarily have great areas to
freeze things.

SPEAKER_05 (21:00):
It just seems so the process just seems so cost
prohibitive to really do on anykind of grand scale because you
have to wait for a fire.

SPEAKER_06 (21:08):
Well, these guys make ice wine uh in upstate New
York and in Ontario.

unknown (21:15):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (21:16):
We did we had some ice wine with Mrs.
Vino.

SPEAKER_06 (21:18):
Yeah, yeah, I will I will say again with gorgeous, so
that is with uh fireweed honey.
Mike, this might be the one thatI only want I've ever had, but
fireweed honey is used in youknow some meateries and things
like that too.
Um, it is very big on thehomebrew in the homebrew
circuits.
People love that honey.
Um, it's great.

(21:41):
I'm blown away.
This is just this is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (21:44):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 (21:45):
Yeah, so the way we're gonna do this, Bill.
You're here.
Nate, your turn to go findsomeone to put in that chair,
and then we'll do somebody tobring some.
Yeah, meantime, identifying wasyes, you do the bubbles in that
were just so like bam, right inmy mind.
This one is much less lessalcohol.

SPEAKER_05 (22:01):
What it what is what is that comparatively?

SPEAKER_06 (22:03):
So, this one is a Mount Marensi cherries with uh
uh and uh orange blossom honeyaged on Ambriana wood.
So Ambriana wood is uh a woodfrom Brazil.
Sorry, I gotta do it.
It has this absolutely amazingspice and cinnamon character

(22:26):
that you just can't get anyother way, and it is um it's
magical, it literally makes anybeverage just so much better.
Wow, and I and I'm sure it'sbeautiful, but I don't want to
stray away from the from thehome model from the fire cider.
I don't want to stray away fromthat at all, but I will.

(22:49):
It is gorgeous, it is amazing.
It also shows that even thoughit's a home brew club, like is
what they call it, they'remaking wines and meads and
sizers and ciders and all kindsof kombucha guys have come
through here with you know it'snot a one-free.
It is not, it is not no.
They there's a lot of creativityglass with what I yeah, you're

(23:10):
fine.
That this one, as big as it is,and as as lovely it is, is much
more delicate than the one I'mpouring now, which is why I went
with the more alcoholic version.
And you put it in a groshbottle.
Is there a reason why you put itin a bottle with a cap on it?
Yeah, because I poured it offtap at home.

(23:31):
I literally was just like, oh,just dumped it into a sanitized
bottle.
So, what should I expect fromthis?
Uh you said cinnamon, cinnamon,you know, nutmeg, baking spice.
All of that is coming fromnothing but the wood.
Went right into my nose.
Yeah, from the wood.
It's Mountain Ransom cherries,honey, and embryona wood.

(23:53):
That is it.
There is not a spice added tothis.

SPEAKER_05 (23:57):
So now do you have just like staves?

SPEAKER_06 (23:59):
Wow, yeah, so just staves in with what you're
doing, basically.
Cadillac straits homebrew clubshop.
Yeah, they have they carry likespiral, so it's like a stake.
That's where I get my stuff.
They just like they just tomaximize uh surface area, they
create a spiral so it has hotsub surface area.
Do you prefer the staves to thechips?
I do, yeah, because they'reeasier to remove and caught in

(24:23):
the streets.
Yeah, it has a lot of cheeseclotting, all the other stuff.
Yeah, and so it's just it's theyand they add it's like crazy
amount of surface area, so itinfuses very quickly.
This was this was in there forlike nine days.
As a winemaking guy, I alwayswent with the the dust and the
chips.
The dust is garbage, and it'sit's just it just makes a mess,

(24:45):
really.
I don't know that it has anymore flavor.
I'll maybe I'll go start goingstaves now.
I haven't I'm overdue for abatch.
So yeah, this is Montmorencycherries from um Kiloma,
Michigan, which is likesouthwest Michigan, um, and then
uh they're um half were pitted,half were not, and then uh it

(25:09):
was in primary and secondary,and then uh aged in secondary
with uh Embriana Wood.
Let me ask you this question.
If I wanted to seek this out foran event, for a wedding, for a
birthday party, could I come toyou and say I really would love
to have that bottle or helegally cannot sell it?

(25:31):
I legally cannot sell it.
Let's put that out there.
Okay, so that's why I'm askingthe question.
If someone wanted to seek youout, how how does that work?
But if you are if you want tohave a member of the club, yeah,
you're a member of the club?
Anything if you've got to comeyou come to me and like, hey, I
want to make these things, Imake way more alcohol than I can
ever consume in my lifetime.

(25:52):
I don't know if that's truebecause I like to brew a lot,
buddy.
I like to brew more than I candrink.
Okay that you just you you haveintroduced us to.
My my mind is blown.
I'm glad you liked it.
I am very, very pleased withwhat you have put in front of
us.
Oh my god.
So so Bill, who has joined us atthe table here?

(26:13):
This is uh Steve Smellensberg.
Did I say that right?

SPEAKER_03 (26:16):
Steve Smollenberg, yeah.
Steve, welcome to the Man CapeHappy R.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 (26:21):
Is this Mat Fox?
Jamie Flynn again.
Of August, we've crossed pathsmany times over the years.
Yeah, and Steve Steve makes someabsolutely phenomenal beer.
So, how long have you been beenfirst of all start with how long
have you been in the hobby inthe home brewing?

SPEAKER_03 (26:36):
So, I brewed my first extract batch in uh
December of 2000.
So 25 years, 25 years ofbrewery, yeah.
Uh started out my uh my mom gotmy brother-in-law and I the you
know bucket kit, the very, verybasic thing.
And did this, yeah, yeah.

(26:56):
I love that.
It was a Christmas gift.
She was like, I and I I wasfortunate.
I had a friend who had beenbrewing for about five years at
that point, and had one at thestate fair, and he was and I'm
like, I gotta try this.

SPEAKER_06 (27:08):
Some kids get erector sets, some kids get
homebrew kits.
Yeah, I've got Legos or Blue.
I was already 30.
Some kids get erector sets.
Right, right.
I never got on erector set,neither did I.

SPEAKER_03 (27:26):
Yeah, but uh, but I had a friend who had had brewed
uh Michael Ireland.
He'd um he used to do a Scotchpodcast, by the way, a Scotch
tasting podcast.
So uh shout out to Mike.
He was um he was instrumental inme learning all the basics of
the hobby.
And the first thing he importedto me when he's like, take

(27:47):
copious notes, write everythingdown, keep track of what you're
doing, and I can really creditthat for my success and in how
I've developed in the hobby.
And then the the next big leapwas joining a club, getting
involved with a group of peoplewho could taste and evaluate the
beer that I've made and reallygive me constructive feedback.

(28:07):
Love that.
So I got two things here for youguys.
What'd you make?
So uh I think there's enough foreverybody to try this yet.
This is this should put youmuch.
Uh, if you've had Duvall, thisshould put you very much in uh
mind of that style.
It's a Belgian golden strong.
Okay, so it's uh Belgian goldenstrong, about nine and a half,
ten percent.

(28:28):
Um, very dry finish.
It's kind of uh it exemplifiesthe style for me.
Um and the uh one of the thingsthey say about Belgian beers is
digestibility.

SPEAKER_06 (28:40):
It's now Bill's job to get someone in that seat.
Okay, thanks, Bill.

SPEAKER_03 (28:45):
Sorry, Steve, sorry, sorry to interrupt.
So they talk about thedigestibility of Belgian beers.

SPEAKER_06 (28:50):
So stomach.
Digestible.

SPEAKER_03 (28:53):
So, what they're really talking about is it
should complement a food, itshouldn't supersede what you're
eating, it shouldn't make youfull.
Um, so a lot of the time you'regonna get a dry character, a dry
finish to it.
Um, and one of the things I hopeyou'll notice when you taste
this is you don't taste thealcohol, it's a nine and a half

(29:15):
percent beer, it does not tasteso like I'm a catchy cafe guy.

SPEAKER_06 (29:19):
Uh, I'm there so the Belgian beers are my favorites.
I love my all my Belgian styles,like all the way to the fruited
ones and the Flemish ales.
But man, Belgian yeast makes mefart.
Yeah, for sure.
You'll have that.
It's like I mean, that's one ofthe things.

SPEAKER_03 (29:36):
Yeah, Duval, in particular, the you don't find
this beer anywhere in the worldin a K.
It's it's bottle rightexclusively.
Only seen it in bottle.
Yeah, okay, that makes sense.
Yeah, is because it's almost uhand it looks like you guys got
the dregs a little bit.
So you got a little thing I'mgonna fart more.
Yeah, so you got so you got someof the so one of the things

(29:58):
about this is to get when WhenDuval does this, they uh ferment
to uh almost four volumes ofCO2, which is kind of unheard
of.
Like you have to use a specialglass in order to keep it from
bursting the bottles, right?
The pressure.
Is that why it's a tallerbottle?
Or well, that was part of why Iused the taller bottle.
Yeah, this is a heavy-dutyglass.

(30:20):
Um, and that is part of why youhave that much sediment at the
bottom of it, too.
Unfortunately, by the time I gotover here, we were to the last I
knew what I was getting intowhen we were when we're gonna do
it when we're at this club.

SPEAKER_06 (30:33):
Um, I've had plenty, but there's also some flavor in
that that I think is a littledifferent.
Uh, were you attempting to cloneDuval with this?
Absolutely.
Okay, yeah, or just put your ownspin on that style.
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (30:43):
Yeah, so this uh this particular version of that
of this recipe, this is aboutthe fourth time I've read this.
Uh on my second attempt, I gotuh first place in the national
qualifier with it.
Nice.
I've been uh trying to, youknow, I I gotta get back there,
get it back to nationals again.
Tweaking it every time you soit's your fourth time.

(31:03):
Are you tweaking a little bit?
Just very slightly.
Uh I feel like the recipe isabout spot on.
What I'm really trying to do nowis dial in the right amount of
bottling sugar so I get thatchampagne-like fermentation.
It's that really, really highvolume of uh of um foam that's

(31:24):
just signature to this uh thisbeer.

SPEAKER_06 (31:27):
Side of the glass, the foam is sitting on the side
of the glass really, reallynicely.
I I think you said foam, right?
OAM, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (31:35):
It's a very dry finish.
Yeah, it's very nice.

SPEAKER_03 (31:39):
And that's one of the big things about this style.
It's you're trying to get it toa point to where it just leaves
you, it it complements food, itdoesn't overtake something that
you're having with it, but it'sgot a lot of flavor to itself.

SPEAKER_06 (31:51):
We do drink a lot of whiskey and bourbon on the show,
and we talk about legs on abourbon, right?
Yeah, this has got some legs onit, yeah.
You heard some of these crap,these homebrewers talk about
their viscosity, yeah.
And they've used that word,which we also use when we're
drinking bourbons in the show.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (32:08):
This is beautiful.
Well, it's a it's a nicetransition into uh the other
beer I've got here.
All right, I made room.
I made room.
This is an American barley wine.
Oh an American barley wine.
All right, so if you want tohave something that has legs, uh
you you should see thatviscosity in this beer.
This is uh I do like legs.
I call this beer Finding ElDorado.

(32:31):
Finding El Dorado, I like that,and that's because that's the
name of the main hop that wasused in it.
Is it's called El Dorado.
Uh, and um this is about uh 12%ABV beer.

SPEAKER_06 (32:44):
Charlie Wine is my favorite, personal favorite
style of beer.
I I really like um I preferAmerican beers.
I mean, I love my I love myBelgian.
So I'll go with like a chameblue for Thanksgiving all year.
Yeah, that's my jam.
But this reminds me of Alaskanale, Alaskan amber, I should
say.
Yeah, the color.

SPEAKER_03 (33:04):
The color is gonna remind you that you're probably
gonna find a little more alcoholthere and a little bit thicker.
Um, oh yeah.
But uh this was a State Fairgold medal winner this year.
Congratulations.

SPEAKER_06 (33:18):
These gentlemen here have tried their first ever uh
rice IPA, they tried their firstever Old Ale, their first ever
Icebach, and I'm gonna venturethis is probably your first ever
barley wine.
Barley wine?
Yeah, this is a barley winestyle, probably the first you've
ever had.
Yeah, whereas I'm fortunateenough to you know travel the
country with Brett and Ericgoing to all these festivals and
trying this stuff, these are andcrashing their Monday nights for

(33:40):
the last couple years withberries.

SPEAKER_03 (33:41):
Fair.
Yeah, that's uh um it'sinteresting because it's an
English style originally, andthen the American take on it is
just a hoppier version of, butit's got all that deep malt
character, but you're bringingsome of that uh the special um
notes of sometimes tropicalfruits and other things that you

(34:01):
get from the from the hops uhinto that mix.

SPEAKER_06 (34:04):
This is a great home version of I drink uh Comras,
which is a Polish barley winethat I get at I live in Ham
Shramics.
Like let's walk up to Schroedex,they're like seven bucks a
bottle for these, yeah, 16ounce, and it's delicious.
I love cracking that high octanesucker open while I'm watching a
ball game.
That's my barley wine of choiceright now.
So this was a 12, yeah.
So 12?

(34:25):
It's about 12.
Yeah, man.
Deceptive.
My my my uncle down in Florida,he he would sit down and he
would taste everything.
He's got a receipt from what isthat restaurant?
It's like a beer, like a brewerythat's in Florida, and they just
got beers from around the world,and his receipt what's up?

(34:46):
Uh oh, but you say he would lovethis stuff, he would love what
you guys do here.
Absolutely love it because I'mloving it.

SPEAKER_03 (34:53):
So, yeah, we're we're very fortunate, um, and a
little spoiled.
I mean, there's the quality ofthe brewers in this club, it's
pretty good.

SPEAKER_06 (35:02):
Um, oh, it's it's dangerously good, it's
dangerously good.

SPEAKER_03 (35:05):
It's dangerously good.

SPEAKER_06 (35:06):
Yeah, you guys make a you do a great job.
Yeah, thank you.
That's why I crash all yourMonday nights.

SPEAKER_03 (35:10):
Yeah, well, uh, I appreciate the uh opportunity to
share my beers and uh talk withyou guys.
And yeah, so see, so who has satdown next to you?

SPEAKER_06 (35:19):
Uh so Doug Boltis.
Doug, um Doug?
So Doug, welcome to the Man CapeHappy Hour.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (35:26):
So now Steve, you know, pronounced your last name
right.

SPEAKER_06 (35:29):
Uh Bolt ice.
Now you know your job is to getus one more place.
All right, I will find somebodyfor you guys.
It's Doug.
Thank you very, very much.
Great having you, man.
Honestly, delicious.
All right, your job is to findsomeone to fill that chair.
Yeah, all right.
So tell us how you started.

(35:49):
How'd you get into this uh homebrewing stuff?
I got in I got in a sideways uhI guess you were drunk that day?
No.
Um I worked in the beer businessfor a lot of years, and um in
the um early to mid-90s, I wasworking in a crap beer bar, one
of the first ones in Chicago inthe Chicago area.

(36:10):
And Goose Island, one of those?
Uh then I moved on to GooseIsland.
I was actually the GM at GooseIsland at one time.
No kidding, uh, probably aroundmid-90s, it would have been the
the true release of bourboncounty.
So that's like like Goose Islandis credited with being the
original barrel aged beers, likebourbon county.

(36:31):
They were the first to do it,right?
Pretty much.
I mean, on a commercial scale,yeah.
I remember we were doing apodcast.
I brought a bottle of GooseIsland on one of our bourbon
casts just to talk about it, andwe I think we literally called
Brett on the air and said, Hey,who was the first one to do
this?
Was it Goose Island?
Yes, and he goes, right?
He goes, as far as I know, GooseIsland was the first ones to

(36:51):
ever barrel aged and fastproduce and put it out there for
sale.
Correct.
And here's an interesting story.
Here's an interesting story.
So two years ago, they came outwith the 30th anniversary of
bourbon county.
Well, the real release didn'thappen until 1995, and it and it
and it uh collated with the200th anniversary of Jim Beam,

(37:14):
which were the original barrels.
Never heard of it.
So the the true the true 30-yearanniversary is actually this
year, and so I did take a bottleof 30 year and I've still got it
in my fridge.
I haven't cracked it yet.
Is it gonna be a good enough dayor a bad enough day to open that
sucker, right?
There's there's gonna be no goodday or no bad day to do it.

(37:37):
You're just gonna do it, and andyou're just gonna do it.
I'm just gonna do it.
Yeah, all right.
The good, yeah.
I I've had one before, but I didI did put one away for the true
30 year, which would be thisyear.
So what uh so how long ago didyou start making your own beer?
Like you started like I starteda little bit in the um midnight,

(37:58):
mid to late nineties.
Um, I did a few batches.
I lived in an apartment in uhinner city Chicago.
Uh not room for boiling, yeah.
Not ideal.
I mean, it had a huge kitchen,but it was just not ideal for
doing this kind of stuff.
And um I had uh done a littlework with some guys that ran a

(38:19):
home brew shop uh back in theday.
And I have some friends that umwere very early on, the pioneers
of um of home uh homebrewing inin the Chicago area, and these
guys have really gone on to dogreat things.
Um but so I got a little bit ofa start that way, but I realized
that's that's not it, you know.
Um uh fast forward to aboutmaybe 10 years ago when I

(38:43):
started to get into it.
Into it uh and then come back toit and leaning into it, and I
wasn't gonna lean into it in akind of um a pedestrian way.
I was I'm coming in fully loadedhere, you know.
If I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna doit the right way.
What did you bring tonight toshow off to your uh fellow

(39:04):
craftsman?
So I've got an Oktoberfest here,since the season.
Yep, so I know that's still onanybody's computer or gear.
So I'll I'll try to be ascareful as I can.
So this is the there's lots ofstories out there about how
Oktoberfest existed.
Like there's I always heard itwas all the beer that was left

(39:25):
over from the whole year, theymixed it together and they all
drank it, and uh and they drankit to clear the tanks so they
could make the beer for nextyear.
That was kind of a crazy dumbstory.
Yeah, that's a crazy dumb story,and it's sort of mixed in with
um uh the other myth of Bachbeer, where they're that's when
they clean out the tanks.
They clean out the tanks, yeah.

(39:47):
No, it's no it's a style, it's astate multi-style.
It's American.
It's uh that is the true styleof the Oktoberfest.
So but the Oktoberfest beers yousee all the women in the
commercials carrying look a lotlighter in color than this.
So for your lane.
No, this is actually uh, and Inever do these, right?

(40:10):
So this is a kit, and this isanother thing that I never do.
I never screw up a batch ofbeer, but well, you never can
screw up a batch of beer, right?
Never say never, right?
Well, you don't screw it up, youjust start over.
Well, that's my idea.
I I took a I took a beer and themash turned into mashed
potatoes, and before I got toofar into it and got too

(40:32):
frustrated, I just dumped it inthe compost bin.
And I had won this kit at the umMichigan Homebrew Festival.
Okay.
Um, looked decent enough, sohere we go.
You know, I I switched out theyeast.
Typically, the yeast in thesekits is old, or it's or it's dry
yeast.
It's not it's it's not whatyou're gonna do good things

(40:56):
with.
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (40:57):
So but that's all brewing those kits, though, is
an easy way for somebody to getinto the hobby, though.

SPEAKER_06 (41:03):
Well, that's uh first of all, name rack and
serial number.
He just jumped in here uhunannounced.
Uninvited, I was invited.

SPEAKER_05 (41:14):
Uh Duke Turner, uh president of the uh Cooney Guild
of Brewers here.
Thanks for having us heretonight, too.

SPEAKER_06 (41:20):
Hang out with you guys, man.
Thanks for having us here.
By the way, I didn't say this,but I'm uh vice president.
So we're gonna get the guilders.
How was that speech?

SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
You know, all the generals and admirals here.
That's how Octoberfest tastes.

SPEAKER_06 (41:49):
I must tell you, the October fast that they're doing
here at Codens is one of thebest Octoberfasts I've ever had.
I mean, it is like you gotta beeither better or worse than
that.
That's like the it should be thestandard.
I've never had a commerciallybought one that's as good as
this.
This is nice.

SPEAKER_00 (42:05):
This is nice.

SPEAKER_06 (42:06):
It's lighter, it's homebrew carbonated, which
people gotta get gottaunderstand that it doesn't quite
have the bubbles that your canof can and and the and it's in a
and it's in a holler and it'sbeen talking about and it's been
being served for the last hourand a half.
So there's gonna be a little bitof dissipation in the bubbles.

(42:27):
It was probably carved when Itook it my basement.
Doug, we're we're we're lucky toget to taste it, and we're lucky
to have you uh come tell yourstory, and that stuff about the
the the foundation of where youcame from and how you got it.
It's so cool.
And that's that's what we'relooking for tonight, is how
these hobbyists got theirpassion, where it came from, and

(42:48):
like how many hours a month doyou spend thinking about beer?
Too much.
It's a lot, it's a lot, yeah.
And I mean, I've done um so Iworked for other breweries, I
worked for Staddish andNewcastle, uh Newcastle Brown
Ale.
Yeah, sure.
Um, I've also had a long-runningpodcast for a lot of years
called Beer Nuts.

(43:09):
I've heard it.
So Newcastle was sort of afounding father, along with like
Steamboat of like the firstcraft, the non-Miller lights,
butt lights I saw in the 90s ata college bar.
It was like Newcastle.
Like that's not the same coloras the other beers, and that you
know, you would see maybe uh youwould see maybe a tennis can

(43:30):
here or there.
It it had a hip following for alot of years.
It did, and now I first had abartending 25 years ago.
It it could do no wrong.
I mean, castle and anchorsteamboat were the only two
beers that weren't like onelight that were at the college
bars that I remember seeing.
An interesting fact about uhanchor is uh the first craft

(43:54):
beer I ever had was an anchorporter.
Uh, and that was in the um I'mgonna age myself here, but you
know, well you're on camera, soyou just age yourself in the
80s.
I I yeah, I look really youngfor my age, you know.
But uh in the 80s, and I foundan anchor steam beer and uh no
anchor porter, anchor porter,and it was mind-blowing.

(44:17):
I mean, the amount of flavorthat came out of that beer, and
you know, the first sip of itwas like, Oh my god, this is
crazy! But then I kept comingback to it, and I I think at
that point I was hooked, youknow.
Yeah, there we go.
Doug, thanks so much for uhhanging out and sharing your
story of your hobby nice andyour passion.

(44:37):
Thank you very much.
Very cool.
So now we're gonna shift over tothe president.
You can hang out, you can youcan stick around.
Duke, how are you doing tonight?
Living the dream.
Thank you for letting us crashyour party.
Yeah, well I mean, I alwayscrash it, but I don't bring my
friends and microphones all thetime.
So fair enough.
This is gonna be a monthlything, it's gonna happen every

(44:58):
month.
Every month, all right, gottabring some new stories.
How did you go from a guy whomade his first batch of beer to
the president of a KGB?
I just uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 (45:11):
I just kind of uh wanted to be the job, and uh I
went and uh went and applied,and uh they voted me in.
So your first batch of beer, youwhen you first got the buck, how
did that happen?
It was my wife's fault.

SPEAKER_06 (45:25):
Well, that's the first time I've heard that
tonight.
Wait, wait, wait.
And I it was your wife's fault?

SPEAKER_05 (45:29):
Yes, it's all my wife's fault.
She bought me a Mr.
Beer kit.
Was that a Christmas gift?
She knew I loved craft beer,okay, and uh been a been a craft
beer snob for a long time.
So she bought me a Mr.
Beer kit, and that started thewhole thing downhill.
So, what does she think aboutthat now?
She loves it, love it.
Yeah, because I uh I brew a lotof beer that she likes.

(45:51):
So happy, happy life, happylife.

SPEAKER_06 (45:54):
So, do you use her as a as a like a test subject to
say what do you think of this?

SPEAKER_05 (45:58):
Yeah, all the time.
All the time.
I give her, I give her, I bringstuff upstairs, uh out of the
carboys, and you know, and justbe like, Here, try this, here,
try this, here, try this.

SPEAKER_06 (46:09):
You know, see my partner's a red wine drinker, so
it takes like nine to ten monthsfor me to give her a taste of
anything I'm making.
I think I make that too, so I doeverything.
Yeah, mine's mine's all aboutthe IPA.
So if it is an IPA, it's notgetting drank.
Wow, that's that's very unusual.

SPEAKER_05 (46:26):
My wife started out only liking stouts, and now she
loves an IPA and she hated IPAswhen I first started brewing
beer.

SPEAKER_06 (46:35):
Gravitating her towards okay converter.
Try this hop.
She can try this hop.
I love that.
When I when I do taste thingslike, yeah, we we all know Brad
Teagan.
I don't want to be mean topeople who are making a good
product, so I just leave themoff.
You know, this is not my thing,but I get it, and I also get the
subtleties and the differencesof what everyone, how they're
all you know, a little bitdifferent here, a little bit
different there, all thedifferent styles.

(46:56):
So, do what did you bringtonight to show off to your uh
to your legion, your legion offollowers?
Your constituents, yes.

SPEAKER_05 (47:04):
It's a all over the board craft beer night for me.
I've got uh an American lager,which if you guys want to try
what's left of that, is uhunfortunately everybody else has
been enjoying it.
But I basically brewed that uhsecond time doing an American
lager.
Uh this one added some uh bloodybutchered corn to it instead of

(47:25):
uh just a regular flaked cornadjunct.

SPEAKER_06 (47:28):
All right, and uh and this is so usually the the
craft beer guys they're makingeverything but an American lag,
right?

SPEAKER_05 (47:37):
They're going as I'll tell you, it's it's hard to
beat what the what thecommercial guys do because
consistency is the name of thegame, right?

SPEAKER_06 (47:45):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, and that's the the beauty
that I I give them credit forthat all the time.

SPEAKER_05 (47:50):
As much as I you know, as much as people knock
the macro brews, consistency isis in is impeccable.

SPEAKER_06 (47:58):
Of course, light tastes the same in Florida,
Texas, right, Portland, Detroit.

SPEAKER_05 (48:03):
And that is another guy.
And the the fourth time and theseventh time.

SPEAKER_06 (48:15):
Those master brewers.
I mean, talking to Brad and Ericand these guys, they've always
given them a ton of credit, thethe macro brewers, for how they
keep that product consistent.

SPEAKER_05 (48:24):
I mean, people knock them all the time, but lawnmower
beers have a have a purpose inour life.
They serve a role.
They do great on the golfcourse.
They do run on the golf course.
Slam a few in your bag and goout going.

SPEAKER_06 (48:39):
Who were you trying to what was your your goal with
this?
You were trying to cloneanything or mimic any clone?

SPEAKER_05 (48:45):
I was just trying to make a nice, easy drinking, uh
standard American lager with uhI I my my goal with this was to
make one without flaked maize.
I wanted to make it with uh withbloody butcher ground corn as my
corn base for it.
And I think the corn is the cornis jumps out at you, it's very

(49:05):
sweet, very corny.

SPEAKER_06 (49:07):
Um it's got a beer nut feel to it.
I'm gonna I'm not gonna lie toyou, it's got a beer nut feel to
it.

SPEAKER_00 (49:13):
I see what you did there.

SPEAKER_06 (49:15):
So, yeah, who would be commercial equivalent?
Who's doing that?
Anyone?

SPEAKER_05 (49:23):
I mean, maybe that's the beauty of the craft
breweries, but that's about it.
I don't, it's not something thatyou're gonna find one of the
things.

SPEAKER_06 (49:34):
So that's very cool.
Oh, yeah.
What do you guys think?
Clean tasting beer.
You like it?
I dig it, it's very clean.
I this is like a craft brewlawnmower with a little bit of
flavor.
Correct.
And it's very clean.
I almost want to say it.
It it's so clean that I'm like,is it really beer?

(49:55):
Because I don't feel I'mdrinking beer, I feel I'm
drinking something clean that'sgot a flavor to it.
That's I remember this is mostlya bourbon and cocktail podcast.
We don't do a lot of beer unlessI bring the beer in.
I'm the beer nerd.

SPEAKER_05 (50:10):
I gotta I got two other beers that I brought with
me.
Uh, one is uh what I do everyyear, it's a uh it's a basil
wit, so it's a wit beer, aBelgian wit that I actually add
basil from our garden to.
Oh okay, and it is uh fantastic,it's got coriander grains of
paradise, a little chamomile,and some cardamom in the uh in

(50:33):
the actual grain.

SPEAKER_06 (50:34):
And these are spices you added to it, not that the
flavor.
Okay, because Bill always talksabout it.

SPEAKER_05 (50:38):
And once again, this is not something that I'm
chasing from another brewery,right?
This is something that I justlove to do every single year.
So that's good.
My wife, uh, my wife loves thisbeer, and uh you gotta keep the
wife happy.

SPEAKER_06 (50:52):
Oh, the basil is just the basil right up top in
the right in the snot locker.
You say snot locker?
Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_05 (51:05):
That one's probably about five and a half.
Okay, this is soup, superherbal.

SPEAKER_06 (51:10):
Yeah, too herbal for you for me.
But I mean, this is the kind ofbeer I could drink a full one of
these and be like, let's shareit, and I'll drink it.
I if I went to like a pint ofthis, I don't know, but I'd get
through it.
Yeah, but the nose is insane.
Yeah, if you had a bowl of hotchili, okay.

(51:30):
But I tell you what, the wholetable now smells you can you can
smell the the nose on this, thegarden, which is quite
impressive.
I mean, so with the with theamount of but that's only a half
ounce of basil that I actuallyadded to the beer.
With the amount of cannabisattached there, yeah, and the
and the water that's infusedwith you know, this is kind of

(51:52):
reminiscent of that, but it'salcoholic.
What's that with the amount ofcannabis that's out there and
the and the water that's infusedwith your cannabis, if you will.
This is very reminiscent ofthat, but it's not that that's
when I get the herbal from it.
I I feel like I'm this would belike more of a cannabis water.

(52:13):
Okay, does that make sense?
Yeah, I'm just I'm impressed atjust how much a half ounce of
basil and how much yeah, afive-gallon batch and a
five-gallon batch.
Yep.
Wow, that sticks again.
We're a bourbon, we we like ourbourbon, our whiskey.
We don't do beer very often, butthat's what I kind of get out of
that.
And that's the kind of stuff youcan do with these home brewers.

(52:35):
This is a love that the recipesand the experiments that they
guys have fun with.

SPEAKER_05 (52:40):
Yeah, that'd be that's that's the best part
about brewing itself is it'slike cooking and science.
You know, like you know, likethe amount of chemistry degrees
out here, and it's like youknow, you're trying to stick to
like the science, but at thesame time, it's like you're
cooking and you're like, let meadd a little bit of this and see
what it does, and let me add alittle bit of that and see what

(53:02):
it does.

SPEAKER_06 (53:03):
A little bit of what do I have on hand?
What's grown in my garden?
What can I use?
You know, correct.
I I I've used then the lastthing I have is a barley wine.
Oh, I just I'm just telling youhow much I love barley wines and
my favorite American style ofbeer.
I know because you love hobbybeers.
Well, I don't like I don't likeIPAs, but I love barley wines.
Ah, okay.
Barley wines and sours.

(53:24):
I like my Belgians.
I thought you were uh pulling myleg on that one.
Yeah, I love my Belgians and Ilove my barley wines.
So, like I said, you guys hadyour first barley wines tonight.
Yes.
All right, there's a little bitfor me, sir.
Thank you.
Oh, that that's a smell I dig.

unknown (53:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (53:41):
This is the barley wine or barley, yeah.
Who had the barley wine?

SPEAKER_05 (53:46):
It's about nine nine point two percent.

SPEAKER_06 (53:48):
I I don't know if you were you weren't sitting
down when I was talking abouthow I I found Schrodak's meat
market in Hampton.
I got them down the block fromit.
Okay, has a Polish barley wineby a company called Comress,
K-O-M-O-R-I-S.
There's seven dollars a bottlefor a pint, and that's now my
baseball watching sit down andcrack the Polish barley wine.
It's become my favorite style.

(54:09):
Okay, uh, I really enjoy this.
Is this a hoppier barley winethat I'm used to?
Right, it's first it's a freshbarley wine, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (54:19):
So in in about a year, it'll probably really
mellow out and it won't be as ashappy.
It's it's still new.

SPEAKER_06 (54:26):
They're always barrel-aged when I get them
here, right?

SPEAKER_05 (54:28):
Correct.
Is there a like a website?
What does it take to join theguild of brewers?
Uh, is there like is it justthrough Coonin's or is it
kgob.org?
KGOB.org.
Yep, that's our that's ourwebsite.
It's our Facebook group, is howI crash their meetings.
All right, so and and peoplejoin if they're interested, or

(54:51):
no experience, some experience.
What do you need to join?
That's uh what 25 a year, Ithink.

SPEAKER_06 (54:57):
Yeah, 25 a year.
25 a year to join.

SPEAKER_05 (55:00):
And it's a great way to uh to to I'll I'll tell you.
So I think I'm brewing like mysecond batch of a five-gallon
fruit beer in my in my driveway.
Uh back in I started in 2014.
So I'm like, I'm on my secondbatch of beer, and this guy

(55:21):
pulls up at the end of mydriveway, and he's like, Hey,
what are you brewing?
And I'm like, Holy sh, can I canI cut regularly?
This guy knows I'm brewing beer.
I was just like, So I'm I'm overthere shooting shit with him at
the end of the driveway, andhe's like, Are you in a club?
I was like, I'm like, what thehell is a club?
He goes, a whole brew club.

(55:41):
And I'm just like, I'm like, no,well, I'm I'm like, okay.
He goes, uh, well, I'm uh I'mwith the uh Kunin Guild of
Brewers.
We uh we meet over at Koonin'son the first of every month.
He goes, What are you doing uhnext Monday?
Because that's that was the uhthe next meeting, and I and I
knew it was off from work, and Iwas just like I'm like, nothing,

(56:02):
man, I'll be up there.
So I came up for one meeting,and I was just like, take my
damn money, man.
I'm uh I'm in.
I was just like, Holy shit! Andthat I will tell you for anybody
that wants to get into brewing,get into a club because it is
the best thing that you can dofor your brewing because you can
bring your things in and havepeople try them and give you

(56:23):
honest feedback if you'rewilling to take honest feedback,
whether it's good or bad, right?
And uh just have you know, Imean, nobody's gonna have great
beer all the time, and you justneed to sit and take the
feedback that that comes to you.
And uh, and that was the bestthing that I ever did was was to
join this club tell you.

SPEAKER_06 (56:40):
Not everyone's gonna have great beer all the time,
but no one brings their bad beerto this club meeting.
Yeah, we do.
Do you?
Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_05 (56:47):
If I'm looking for the feedback of what I did
wrong, I will bring up, I willbring it.
Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_06 (56:53):
That's even that's even better.
That that's that's cool.
That's very cool.

SPEAKER_05 (56:56):
Because you know, him and I we we enter a lot of
competitions because we're we welike to win things, you know.
Uh so and I and I like thefeedback that we get from uh
from other from from things.
We're gonna wrap it up.

SPEAKER_06 (57:10):
It's we're gonna have another uh called
contestant.
We're gonna take my son overhere, yeah.
We're gonna take the youngster.
All right.
Are you uh driving me home,August?
I am driving you home.
No, I'm not sure.
Anyways, um, I'm gonna give youmy son.
Yeah, appreciate your.
Thanks guys for sitting downwith us.
We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05 (57:28):
I got something for you.
You call me fat.

SPEAKER_06 (57:31):
All right, name ranking, name, rank, and serial
number.

SPEAKER_05 (57:34):
Uh I don't have a rank.

SPEAKER_06 (57:36):
One, two, three, four, five.
That's my password.
Calm down.
Uh welcome to the Man Cave HappyHour.
Hello.
Matt Fox, Jimmy Flanagan.
Welcome, welcome.
I'm August.
I've been crashing your partiesfor a while.

SPEAKER_05 (57:52):
I'm also wearing a Blake Seder hat.
I love it.
So I got engaged there.

SPEAKER_06 (57:56):
So nice, very cool.

SPEAKER_05 (57:58):
So, how did how did that all that happen?

SPEAKER_06 (58:00):
You got down on one knee, or was she expecting it?

SPEAKER_05 (58:03):
No, not expecting it.
I fooled her about a recordplayer for her the night before.
So she did not expect it.
It also was raining.
It had just rained.
It's a little muddy.
We were in the tree, uh, appletrees.
So I had a connection.

SPEAKER_06 (58:16):
It's per minute or 45.

SPEAKER_05 (58:18):
Uh, I uh definitely would have been uh the 45, not
the 33.
No weird, no weird uh yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (58:27):
So you got engaged at Blake's.
Yep.
All right.
So what got you into this realmof brewing and what do you have
here?
What what oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (58:37):
Tell me about your childhood.
Yeah, there you go.
My childhood.

SPEAKER_00 (58:40):
Pretty good childhood.
Or your brewing childhood.

SPEAKER_05 (58:42):
What's uh what was your what was your first foyer
into the uh so it's reallyfunny.
Uh so when I went to college,you know, everybody most people
underage drink at college.

SPEAKER_06 (58:52):
It's not uh it's not a uh drink, I don't know what
you're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 (59:01):
Yeah, but anyway, so I'm moving in.
You guys just saw him, Duke.
Uh Duke is your action is yourdad.
Okay, it wasn't no biologicaldad.
My father, cool.

SPEAKER_06 (59:16):
Go on, yeah, yeah.
So we know your origin storynow.
Yeah, like more than weexpected.
Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_05 (59:22):
It was it was the glasses, it really was.
But uh gave me uh gave me one.
Um he gave me we we kind of hada heart to heart in the car
before I uh uh finished movingall the way into my first door.
And so he's like, you're gonnadrink.
He's like, I know that.
He's like, just drink good beer.

(59:44):
No, just drink good beer.
Oh, what he told me.
Yeah, just wear a condom whileyou're drinking.
Exactly the advice we gave atthe same time.

SPEAKER_06 (59:50):
Oh, and solid.
Don't drink beer and wear acondom at the same time.
At the same time, all right.

SPEAKER_05 (59:56):
So, did you start making beer the same time your
dad did?
No, I I was uh a few yearsremoved because uh he started
while I was at at college.
I went to Western, so I was uhon the other side of the state
too.
Okay, so uh he's kind of startedgetting into into it from that
side of things.
Uh but he was already alreadyinto craft beer.
He'd already our fridgesdownstairs were pretty packed

(01:00:18):
with some good beer, and I hadalready had some samples across
the the board of some goodthings.
Sure.
So have you taken your brewingjourney into a professional
level, or are you still just uhdoing it at home?
Uh well sort sort of.
I know it's the the brewing sideis still at home, but I do work
at Griff Claw.

(01:00:38):
Oh, yeah, because I'm I'mnoticing the one of the tap room
managers at Griffith.
So you know Pat over there.
I do know Pat.
I know.
So what do you as a tap roommanager?
What is it that you do?
I just help I uh oh I move thekegs, dumbass.
That's one of the things I do.
That's not far off.
No, I uh basically just I'm I'mI'm a restaurant manager, okay.

(01:00:59):
All right, all right, I say, butI kind of focus on the more uh
on the barn manager role stuff.
I I guess uh if I was to definemy role for a little bit.
But still having fun at home,making stuff.
So what do we got?
What is happening today?
What are you gonna do to ushere?
Oh, I I've got my fresh hot paleale.
Uh pale ale.

(01:01:19):
Yeah, so I grow a couple somecouple of uh plants of cashmere
hops, uh a cascade hop, and thenSouthern Cross.

SPEAKER_06 (01:01:27):
So that is all like foreign language to most of our
listeners who are bourbon andbooze guys.
Okay, yeah.
So that's why we we gotta wealways want to talk about blakes
here.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:01:40):
Hops are a plant growth about my backyard.
Well, that okay, that part wecan set up.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:46):
Cashmere hops sweaters.
Okay, cashmere hops are kind ofuh it's my favorite hop uh
personally.
It's uh it's a little bit oflemon lime, some a light, uh,
some light resin.
Uh so is there like GHB?

SPEAKER_06 (01:02:01):
Like you said, resin.
There's like uh no, not thatkind of resin.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:04):
Okay, I got resin.
I did I I did mess around withuh some uh cannabinoids for a
minute though, and infusing someliquor though.
That was I did infuse some uhsome gin with some uh uh some
cannabinoids, not the uh not thepsychoactive side, just all the
other uh flavor and otherterpenes sides kind of okay.

(01:02:26):
So is this uh is this like uhwhat's what's the profile?
What how would you describe theprofile?
Is it uh to go with food?
Is it to go with summer?
Is it to go with what?
Uh it's a clean, easy drinking.
To go with drinking.
Um to go with drinking.
Yeah, it's uh I mean food-wise,if I was pairing it, probably

(01:02:47):
it's uh pretty subtle profilewith a little bit of citrusness,
so uh chicken, fish, yeah.
I was gonna say lighter puff.
Who cares?
They're all detoxing.
So let's crack that bad boyopen.
What do you got?

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:03):
I'm just I'm just excited.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:05):
I'm just uh he's got an empty glass and he's thirsty.
That's at the end of the day.
That works what it is.
That's good.
Whoa.
Sorry, I'm a happy I'm a Martinboy.

SPEAKER_06 (01:03:14):
That's okay.
We like happy hands.
Happy hands better than madhands.
I've heard it for 18 years.
I get it.
Listen, they're not shaking, butI shoot with this hand.
Exactly.
You know, you know, this crowd'shaving a good time when there's
about a third less people, butit's a third louder than it was
when we're all here.
That's fair.
That's very fair.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:33):
This is uh we get into the diehards now.

SPEAKER_06 (01:03:38):
Well, that's clean.
Yeah, how much of you make thisa you do the five-gallon batches
like the standard?
Okay, so do you and your dadhave brew offs?

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:46):
Uh no, we actually it's it's funny.
Him and I have a tendency tobrew different things.
We we don't normally brew thesame thing to compete against
it.

SPEAKER_06 (01:03:56):
Who's better than the which one tastes better than
the other?
Yeah, no, we haven't.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:00):
We don't like battle around Christmas and got who's
you put out that beer, put outthat beer.
That might not be a who does,yeah.
I mean, for one of these, I meanwe got enough people around.
That might not be a couplemonths.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:11):
Yeah, we got a couple months.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:13):
Yeah, sounds like uh sounds like we could get this
going.
Uh he's hosting uh Cowboys Lionswatch party.
So we could get something goingby then.
So this is really, really good.
And yeah, yeah, what were youwhat were you shooting for?

SPEAKER_06 (01:04:28):
What were your what was your goal?

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, uh, just not really anyreal profile, just uh standard
pale ale with using just myfresh top with your own stuff,
yeah.
Cashmere, right?
I picked and then the next day Ipicked it the two uh two or on
uh yeah, on a Tuesday night, andthen on a Wednesday I brewed it.

(01:04:52):
So you do like a five-gallonbatch when you brew.
How many five-gallon batchesthroughout the year would you
say you make?

SPEAKER_06 (01:04:59):
Oh shit.

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:00):
That's uh I mean I I heard there would be a you're
like skinny.
I don't know.
Oh, I'm much beer is he drinkingif he's being that skinny?
I uh I have at least uh I haveat least a couple beers every
day of my life, literally everyday of my life.

SPEAKER_06 (01:05:17):
So your metabolism must be fucking crazy, right?

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:20):
You met my dad.

SPEAKER_06 (01:05:21):
Yeah, you met my dad, yeah.
So it's genetically.

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:29):
Yeah, so my mom's five foot and weighs uh a
nothing.
So every every month you're uhdoing a couple every month?
I would say yeah, I I have inrotation some of them empty out,
and some of them are just kindof stay.
I have like I have like 10 10five gallon kegs or 10 kegs in

(01:05:51):
in rotation every so often.
What's uh what's your workspaceat home look like?
I have about a it's probablyabout a it's like a 10 by 25
room that's in my basement whereall of my where my cards might
be.
Are y'all like breaking bad inthe suit with the breather and

(01:06:11):
everything?
No, it's not quite that intense.
It's not quite that intense inthe output making.
This is what I'm seeing.
That's where I've got Walter Jr.
You have to slow your roll,Walter.
I have a propane set up in mygarage.
How quickly can we turn thisinto a meth lab?
It's just the electric systemcould go nuts real quick.

SPEAKER_06 (01:06:30):
I mean, we're good fittings and uh cooking is
cooking the driveway whereeveryone can see.
Can the beer's now blue?
I mean, I do the I do thedistilling the basics.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:43):
No, you don't.
No, I don't.
No, you don't.
And make hand sanitizer.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:50):
That's it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:51):
I have two children.
They're messy and boys andnanny.
So there's a lot of gross germsin my house.

SPEAKER_06 (01:07:01):
So we are wrapping up here.
Is there anything else?
Well, you brought over threebottles.
What else do we want to tastehere?
That those little ones.
Is this a mead?
Yes, it's a mead.
So you make meads too, and youguys the club goes all kinds of
crazy with this.
Oh, these are the other twobottles.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:17):
I got uh mead, wine, cider.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:20):
So I uh do a little bit uh do a little bit of it
all.
Tell me this mead.
What what kind of uh honey didyou start with?
What'd you do?
So this is uh a boche macadamiablossom, so caramelized
macadamia blossom.
Macadamia?
Yeah, macadamia blossom.
As of the nut, the nut.

(01:07:41):
The blossoms from the trees,yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:07:43):
And then some just wildflower on the back end, and
it's an amazing how much it'lltaste like that just from the
honey.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I can smell it right away.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:51):
Uh some some hazelnut in there.

SPEAKER_06 (01:07:53):
See, hazelnut's one of my favorites.
So I knew there was adifference.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:59):
There was a nose on it, but then Wow! Yeah, I didn't
know what the nose was, so yousaid hazelnut.
That is pretty cool.
It's like the nut up dipped inthe honey.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:08:15):
Can I put that in my coffee and just have a really
good day?
You probably could, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:20):
You'd have a great day, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_06 (01:08:21):
You can put that nut honey in your coffee.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:24):
I mean, you could probably just uh you don't know
me, you forgot the coffeealtogether, and you have an even
better day.
That was my nickname in college.

SPEAKER_06 (01:08:30):
Nut honey?
Yeah, just like a shrimp.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:35):
So wow, that's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_06 (01:08:40):
All right, I think we've uh we've tried enough,
gentlemen.
We gotta get home tonight.
I know eventually with us thatwe are trained professionals,
yeah.
Mondays are usually in studiodrinking, so it's a different in
Southfield.
So yeah, bringing we brought itout specifically because we knew

(01:09:01):
you guys were here tonight,okay, and we wanted to get some
stories of the hobby.
And we always drinking all thisprofessional stuff and having
these these uh liquor reps willcome in and tell us about all
their products, folks.
You guys are doing it for thelove of the love of the passion,
yeah.
And we thought it'd be cool toconnect with you guys and
hopefully maybe get some otherpeople involved in the in the

(01:09:22):
hobby.
Just get the word out, you know.
We want this club to be like theentire crew, right?
We would love to see everybodyhere.
It can be at Christmas, it is.
Oh, yeah.
That's fair.
Yes, I go to the Christmasparties.
All right, so oh, yeah, that's agood time, gentlemen.
Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:38):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 (01:09:39):
Uh uh, that is Matt Fox.
That's uh Jamie Flanagan rightthere, and that's August
Gitchlag right over there.

SPEAKER_05 (01:09:45):
All right, like, subscribe, leave a comment, and
we're gonna do it all againvery, very soon.
Cheers! Cheers, cheers,everybody.