November 23, 2025 • 43 mins
In this engaging episode of the Man That Can Project, Lachlan Stuart and Jesse O'Sullivan discuss the transformative power of exercise and community in men's health. Jesse shares his journey from fearing public speaking to becoming a keynote speaker, emphasizing the importance of movement as medicine. The conversation delves into the benefits of strength training, the role of community and brotherhood, and the need for personalized health approaches.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Welcome back to the Man the Cam project.
I'm excited.
This one, this is your thirdtime or fourth time, JB?
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
Third of it just being us two.
And then I was on a like a Teamsone.
Panel.
Yeah.
A panel.
Yeah.
A while back.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Welcome back.
It's been a while.
Thanks, brother.
SPEAKER_00 (01:14):
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
It's growing longer.
It definitely is.
For everyone uh listening, JesseO'Sullivan, we met in 2019.
I think it was 2019.
Yeah, six weeks.
Yeah.
Yeah, end of 2019, start of2020.
And you've been on a number oftimes since you've been part of
our academy, and we've done somework together.
(01:38):
And now you're just a reallyfine example of someone who's
decided who they want to becomeand what life they want to build
for themselves, and you'recontinuing to evolve and grow.
And it's very inspiring towatch.
I stumbled across a post thatyou put up maybe a month ago
where you were talking about howyou were going to give a keynote
at the Australian Men's HealthGathering.
And I was like, we need to getthis legend on here, talking
(02:01):
about some of the things thatyou were going to be talking to
industry experts and leadersabout because our listeners,
men, and the women have men intheir life that can be a part of
the conversation that you weredelivering for many people.
So thanks for coming back on,brother.
Absolutely, man.
It's a pleasure to be here.
And uh thanks for theopportunity.
And so just quickly before wedive in, how was it for you,
(02:23):
obviously knowing the journeythat you've been on and
positioning yourself as anexpert in the industry and on
the topics, you know, some ofwhich we will discuss today, to
be invited to speak at anindustry event?
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
It was kind of like I know, it was extremely
exciting when it when it came tofruition.
Like initially it was just like,Hail Mary, I'll I'll see if see
see if they'll accept it.
And then yeah, when they theyaccepted it and they're like, Oh
yeah, you're on a Friday, andthey kind of locked it in, and I
was just like, Oh shit, this isactually happening, this is
sick.
But the feeling of it was wasliterally like I've I've built
(02:56):
my knowledge and refined it tobe very specific.
And now it's like, well, what'sthe point of that knowledge if I
can't share it?
So yeah, it's just theexcitement to be able to share
that with the world.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Did you ever think like 2020 you would be doing
keynote talks and talks?
Like, was that ever somethingfirstly you wanted to do?
And now along the way, was itsomething that you thought you
would be doing?
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
Not exactly, no.
So, I mean, and definitely notwhen I was younger.
So I actually just put a postout yesterday talking about
this, but I in high school justflat out refused to do
presentations.
Like I'd rather fail than, youknow, well, I'd usually try and
find a way to do it without alot of people in the room.
Um just because like I wouldphysically shake, my palms would
be sweaty, I I would literallylike my heart would be beating
(03:41):
in my chest, I'd be stutteringand splattering my words, and it
was just not a great experience.
And so it was like one of mybiggest fears was public
speaking.
And then it led me to I actuallyfail one of my first semesters
at uni because like I justwasn't able to deliver the
content through that medium.
And then it kind of like dawnedon me that it's like, well, if
(04:01):
this is a weakness, but like Ihad I knew I had the goal of of
making an impact in in men'shealth, like ever since I was
probably like, I don't know, 19or so, when I figured out that I
I wanted to make a solid impactin in that area.
And it real I like I kind ofrealised that if I don't
overcome this fear, then I'm notgonna ever achieve that last
(04:25):
mission.
So yeah, being able to get ontothis national stage and share
this like this knowledge withpeople.
It was I would definitely saythe the best presentation I've
ever done in terms of mydelivery, my confidence, and
it's just because it's like mybread and butter.
(04:46):
It's it's it's like it's thestuff I talk to my clients every
day.
And yeah, it was just reallyexciting.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
What was the main takeaway that you wanted to
leave the audience with on thatday?
SPEAKER_00 (04:58):
That well, movement is medicine is probably the the
the backbone of it.
Because be being an exercisephysiologist, men's health
coach, and kind of focusing inthe in that space, like one of
the key things that I've foundis is that during the times in
my life that exercise is apriority, my health is like
fucking way better.
And not just mental health, butlike physical health, my my
(05:20):
energy throughout the day, mylike my motivation to get other
things done, my clarity, mybrain, like brain fog just
disappears, like that kind ofstuff is all like benefited just
from that one thing.
So like yeah, movement asmedicine is probably the main
story.
SPEAKER_01 (05:35):
It's such a powerful thing, and like motion creates
emotion.
And I know there's a stat fromthe University of South
Australia, which was from acouple of years ago, but
physical activity can be 1.5times more effective than
counselling and medication fordepression, which is
mind-blowing because you have togo digging for that.
Like to me, I've all I've neverwalked away from a workout
(05:57):
feeling crap, like I felt tired.
Don't get me wrong, I've beenbusted, but I've always walked
away feeling empowered and beenlike that sense of satisfaction
and achievement.
But you you've been, you know,you've said and I've seen you
talk about it, but like strengthtraining works like an uh
anti-anxiety drug, and cardioworks like an antidepressant.
Like, can you break it down forus just for all the lads
(06:19):
listening?
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
Well, particularly with men, is we're almost
hardwired, like it's in ourgenes to move.
Like, you know, back in the daywe would go hunting and you
know, sprint after wild animalsand you know have to wrestle
them and all this kind of stuff,and then carry big heavy, you
know, you know, game back to thevillage or whatever it might be.
So it's like we evolved to bevery athletic and and very
(06:43):
active humans.
And then as we've gone into thissociety, it's like, you know,
I've got a nice little officehere, and it's like I I find
myself sitting down a lot.
And it's like, well, I'm I'm aI'm an active person, but I need
to make sure I still implementthe activity aspects because
like if I'm not, then when I'msitting down doing my work, it's
it's nowhere near as good.
(07:04):
And the simple fact is thatthat's in our genes.
That's it, like that's thebackbone to how we are motivated
in the world.
So that's where the the strengthcomponent is more along the
lines of building yourself-efficacy, which is like
your ability to believe inyourself and and to do hard
things that you can actually doit.
(07:25):
Because when you think aboutanxiety, anxiety is the
opposite.
The anxiety is is self-doubt.
Anxiety is fear of failure,anxiety is is just not wanting
to try in in case you f fail.
So when you can strength trainand you realize, oh, that hard
thing, that really heavy thingthat I thought was too heavy to
lift, I could lift that.
(07:47):
It's like reinforcing that partof the brain.
And then with the antidepressantside of things, with the aerobic
aspect, I mean there's a lot ofstudies to suggest it's it's
it's more multifaceted.
So one of the key things isblood flow.
So when you're able to increaseblood flow to your brain, it's
able to deliver nutrients andremove the toxins and all that
(08:09):
kind of stuff ten times betterthan when you're completely, you
know, stationary or sedentary.
So that's one of the components.
And then the other component isusually aerobic activity,
cardio, requires you to gooutside and do something
outside.
Or it's it's almost like thethere's a a rhythmic action.
And I I think I'm I'm not 100%sure of of of the why in in that
(08:34):
space, but it's it's the there'sthat proof that like even having
terrain moving past it I don't II can't really describe it very
well, but it's it's like thatmovement of the terrain past our
eyes is relaxing for the brainand allows it to be calm and
down, and it helps us regulatethat nervous system of fight or
flight or rest and digest.
It helps us balance that out andand fix that.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
It's such an important point there, even
looking at, as you said, fromwhether it's strength training
or cardiovascular training, likethe key thing, and you've tied
it back into like doing hardthings, but it ultimately
stressing the body, allowing thebody to recover and then
allowing it to adapt so that wecan become more efficient and
that you know the mind and bodyare linked, they're one system,
even though people try toseparate them, they both impact
(09:20):
impact each other.
And the crazy thing is that I'msure you see as well with the
clients that you work with, Isee it a lot with the men that I
work with, is they're just notstrong in their body.
And many of them see fitness asa luxury.
It's like, I'll do that when, oronce I get through this busy
period in my life, I'll startexercising again.
I'm like, no, no, no, no, you'relooking at it completely wrong.
(09:42):
This is the thing that affordsyou to be able to do that for a
sustained period of time at ahigh level.
And there's also more stats, Idon't have it written down here,
that like four in fiveAustralians don't meet the
minimum exercise targets for themental health benefits.
Like four in five?
Yeah, that's freaking like itwouldn't be on the Gold Coast
where you are because everyone'sout getting fit, but most other
(10:03):
places, it's just people aren'tdoing the things, and it might
be because we don't know whereto start, we don't feel
comfortable, we don't have asense of community, whatever
they are.
But if you think about whatyou've said, like movement is
medicine, and we'll talk aboutsick care system soon, because
this sort of leads into that, iswe need to start finding a way
to, as you've done with yourspeaking, even you look at it
(10:24):
and you go, if I really want tohave out the outcome that you
wanted, you said I need toovercome this and I need to
educate and I need to put myselfin a position to.
Same goes for all the people whowant longevity and want to have
a great quality of life as theyget older and they start reaping
the fruits of their labor fromtheir career.
You need to start doing the worknow.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
A hundred percent.
And and even when we look atanyone that's successful, unless
you win the bloody lotto, it'slike you're going to be faced
with stress.
And the key component toexercise and and movement is you
actually increase your toleranceto stress.
So I can't I can always I alwaysforget the name of this part of
(11:06):
the brain, but I've like lookedinto it and it's it's it's a
part of the brain that actuallygrows and gets bigger when you
overcome hard things.
So this then decreases your riskassessment, or not risk
assessment, but like threatanalysis.
It decreases that alarm bell.
(11:26):
And so like an individual thatis probably most commonly known
is is David Goggins.
And they scan his brain, andthis part of his brain is like
the biggest of any human they'veever come across.
Wow.
So there's literally part ofyour brain that grows to deal
with stress, to deal with liketo increase your tolerance to
stress.
(11:47):
So you're saying resilience canbe built?
100%.
It's it's it's like a muscle,but it's in your brain.
It's it's a component withinyour brain.
And that's where in in the talk,I like being in a room full of
practitioners, like I wanted toshare the parts of the brain and
how they are impacted byexercise.
And one of the key things iswhen we're super stressed, or
(12:07):
chronically stressed even, welose our dopamine, right?
So we our ability to producedopamine decreases.
So for those who don't know,dopamine is like the it's not
the reward chemical, it's it'slike the desire chemical.
It's it's the thing that makesus want more, right?
And it's it's what gives usreward for doing things.
(12:29):
But when that's burnt out, allof a sudden we need to resort to
cheaper, faster dopamine to feelthe same excitement and
motivation.
So that's where a lot of blokesself-sabotage down that path of
alcohol and drugs and and womenand whatever else.
And it's because when youexercise, you're increasing that
(12:50):
that toll that well nottolerance, but the increase the
sensitivity to dopamine and theproduction of dopamine.
Yeah, and and it's like becauseit's actually earned, it's it's
it's literally like it's morepowerful that way than it is
when you know, if you do a lineof cocaine, it floods your brain
with dopamine really, reallyquick, but then it crashes
(13:10):
really quick.
And then you're you're searchingfor that high again.
But the racking up another lineand going again.
Whereas the dopamine you getfrom these hard tasks, they it
it pro it's like a prolongedrelease for a lot longer, for
literally hours after.
And that's where even someonewith ADHD, it's like, well, I
love exercising in the morningbecause like I am medicated for
(13:33):
ADHD, which is a form of speed,but I don't have to be reliant
on that medication when Iexercise in the morning.
And that's like an insane aspectfor me, where it's like, well, I
don't have to pump myself withfull of these medications when
all I've got to do is just movemy body and get my heart rate
up, and then I get all thebenefit of that.
SPEAKER_01 (13:53):
So when you're looking at the structure of
programming for some like let'sjust say you're an individual,
you're a high-performing bloke,and you may not be training for
anything specifically, whetherit's bodybuilding or a Spartan
race or a marathon or whateverit is, but you're just listening
to what you're saying, andyou're like, Jesse, you know, I
want to stress myself more, Iwant the recovery and I want the
(14:13):
adaptation.
What would like, I guess,obviously, loosely put, it's
different for everyone, but agood training structure look
like?
If we were to say, you know, afive-day training week, what
would that roughly look like?
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
So, I mean, looking at that research paper that you
suggested, I was I was actuallylooking through this before this
podcast.
I really were looking at thesame one.
Yeah, the exact same becauseit's it's probably the most
prominent study.
Like when you look at thequality of a study, this one's a
meta-analysis review.
So it's taken all themeta-analysis, which reviews of
all the other tests, so of allthe random control trials.
(14:49):
So it's a a study of a study ofstudies, which is like the
ultimate study.
And and of that, there's overlike a thousand different
studies they've done.
And across that is also, I thinkit was like 149,000
participants.
So the data, yeah, it's not justlooking at 10 people and
(15:12):
exercising 10 people, 140,000people is like insane.
And that's across every age.
Well, the the average age waslike, I think like 24 all the
way up to I think it was about86, but the average was 55.
But regardless of that, back toyour question, is the
recommendations within thisstudy, it looked at session
(15:34):
frequency, duration, mode, allof those components.
What I would say is like it'slike the sweet spot in the
middle.
There's if you do too much, it'sit it's like there's a sweet
dose.
You want the minimum effectivedose.
If you go under, it's noteffective.
And therefore, so anything thatwas low intensity or low
(15:56):
frequency, so you know, only oneor two days a week wasn't really
effective.
Low intensity wasn't really lowuh wasn't really effective
anywhere near as much as highintensity and and moderate
intensity.
So when you're looking at likethe structure, you want to go
for four to five days was thebest outcome for both depression
and anxiety.
And then the total minutesthroughout the week was around
(16:18):
that 150 minutes, which has beenthe guidelines for fucking 20
years.
Yeah.
So like yeah, 150 minutes ofmoderate to vigorous exercise in
terms of the mode, as Imentioned before, like different
modes allow for differentaspects, but really it it was
they were all effective.
Right?
So even things like yoga andstretching, but then you don't
(16:40):
get the intensity component.
Yeah.
So it doesn't really matter whatyou do, it just matters how
often you do it, and that's fiveto four to five times per week,
and then accumulate a total of150 minutes across the week.
And so if you do that, then youknow you you're ticking you're
getting the best response fromit.
SPEAKER_01 (16:58):
Yeah.
I think one of the great thingsabout when we look at frequency
as well is if you start makingit something that you do five
days a week, or even for me, Imove seven days a week in
various differences ofintensity, but it becomes part
of my identity.
And the reason why I'm gratefulthat health and active, you
know, consciously andintentionally uh intentionally
(17:19):
moving is it's a healthierversion.
I I still consider myself anathlete, and because I consider
myself an athlete, I makehealthier movement choices,
recovery choices, nutritionchoices, which I believe in the
long term, and even though I'mnot a competitive athlete, but
even in the long term, I thinkthat mindset and that part of my
identity is going to serve me inthe future.
(17:40):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Beautiful.
And I guess even for me, likeI'm in between training for
events.
What I'm doing, just to give anexample for people out there, is
I'm currently doing threestrength training sessions a
week, one sort of zone two, likeessentially being able to go for
a run talking to a mate, likeit's not intense, and then one
(18:01):
30-minute hit high intensitysession at the gym as well.
And that's what mine looks likeat the moment, and it's covering
all bases, and I it it'sactually kicking my ass at the
moment because I've only reallybeen doing a lot of long runs
for the last two years.
So being back into strength,it's getting my nervous system
pumped up, my brain, and thenthe high intensity.
Holy crap, but it's sosatisfying at the same time.
SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
Yeah, the the the flood afterwards, the the the
you know, the endorphins, thatdopamine, that well, I mean they
they call it the runner's high,but you know, you can get it
from anything.
And it's it's it's like thatflood of all those
neurotransmitters, which whenyou're looking at depression and
anxiety, those neurotransmittersare like completely burnt out.
So you've got low serotonin, lowdopamine.
(18:45):
And then there's also anotherthing that's released with
strength training, which isreally beneficial, particularly
for anxiety and PTSD, is forget,it's like BNFD, so it's brain
neurotropic factor something.
Yeah, I've got to hearbrain-derived uh neurotropic
factor, yeah, BDNF.
BDNF, right?
That's increased during strengthtraining, and the benefit of
(19:08):
that is that's what allows us tocreate new neural pathways.
So oftentimes like people willtalk about like, oh, they you
know, their first thought ortheir first reaction is
negative.
And that's like a neural pathwaythat's ingrained in our brains
because that used to protect us.
Whereas so if we heard arustling in the bushes, it was
(19:29):
eas it was safer and you know,it would allow us to live longer
to assume that was somethingbad.
But in our life now, it's notanywhere near as effective.
But the more we allow that kindof thought process to lead and
and control our life, the morethat neural pathway gets gets
like solidified.
(19:50):
But this this BDNF stuff, itallows us to lay new pathways,
positive thoughts, these thenthat's that self-efficacy.
That's the I can do this, I canbelieve in myself, and I'm
capable.
I think that's what motivatesany man is like we want to feel
capable.
SPEAKER_01 (20:08):
Dude, so so good.
And I hadn't looked into thattoo much until obviously you
sent me some key points aroundyour talk, and I went down a bit
of a rabbit hole.
So that was fascinating for mebecause I'm always thinking
about boosting mood.
Like I was chatting with a blokeyesterday that's potentially
going to do some work with me,and his life's amazing, like
doing really well from a careerstandpoint, super healthy, all
(20:29):
of that sort of stuff.
But he's like, when I jump outof bed, like I just don't feel
energized, I feel flat.
And I was like, as we're digginginto it, I'm like, what's your
eating like?
He's like, Yeah, I eat reallywell.
And what it boiled down to forhim was the lack of strength
training, which obviously,having read what you've shared
with me, I was like, Oh, therewe go, there's a great link, but
(20:50):
also not having purpose, like asolidified purpose outside of
career, meaning we've built thecareer, but for what purpose did
I build the career to thatlevel?
And why am I not doing thethings that I thought would it
would provide me with afterthat?
And that's why where I getexcited because we get to put
the spring and the step back inthe individual's body going,
hey, you know, for me, I'malways trying to get men strong
(21:10):
in their body, calm in theirmind, clear in their purpose,
and confident in life.
Like very simple process, but Ithink you have to start with the
body because there's it's thepath of least resistance.
(21:51):
Yeah.
For most people, anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
For I mean, obviously, you've got people who
are clinically depressed and andand you know, severely anxious
and things like that.
And that obviously that's that'swhen you need to see, you know,
a psychologist, a professional,to you know, that's sometimes
that's where medication can helpas a as almost see that
medication as a gateway drug toexercise.
(22:15):
Because it's it's like once youget momentum with exercise, it's
like the hardest is the thehardest thing to do is to start.
Like once you've started, likeif you can hold on to it, and as
you said, it's like it's a loteasier to make it a daily thing
than a once or twice a weekthing.
It's like, you know, it's thesame for our sleep.
It's it's far better for us tofocus on our sleep seven days a
(22:37):
week than it is to only focus onit five days a week.
And so like more is or morefrequently is always better when
it comes to particularly a habitthat you want to form rather
than it just being a task.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
That's a great way to put it.
So I want to sort of move intowe we mentioned sick care
before, but the Australianhealthcare is to make a bit of
sick care, as you've mentioned,what do you feel is broken and
what needs to change if we wantreal health, not symptom
management?
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
Well, one of the key aspects of my presentation was
that your your mental health isyour physical health.
And the thing is, is is like ifwe wait until our physical
health is terrible, and youknow, and then all of a sudden
that's when we go down thepathway of diagnosis.
But even the diagnosis requiresto see a specialist and and all
of these like you know, lengthywait times and all that kind of
(23:29):
stuff, and and it's reallyfucking expensive, right?
So when you're looking at all ofthese things, it's like, well,
preventative is like a ten timesvalue saver.
So whether it's your time savingor whether it's your energy or
whether it's your money.
And so that's where like theissue with our healthcare is
(23:50):
like one example I spoke about,was spoke to you about before
the call was was that like if weget our bloods done, for
starters, like as a 28-year-old,and I went to my doctor and I
said, Hey, I want to get mybloods checked, and they'll be
like, Oh, why?
And it's like, oh well, justwant to see where I'm at.
He's like, well, no.
Just straight up, no, you'reyoung and you're healthy, you
look fine.
You got no complaints.
(24:12):
And the issue with that is isthat well well, how do I know,
like, you know, I I could be lowin testosterone or I could be
really high in inflammatorinflammatory markers, that yeah,
I don't have a physical illnessor disability yet, but I don't
want to wait until that momentwhen, you know, I am clinically
depressed, or I am clinicallyanxious, or, you know, am more
(24:36):
more predisposed to whateverillnesses are out there because
I I don't know where my healthmarkers are at.
So I've gone down like more of aprivate route for myself and my
clients, and that that'ssomething that I'll recommend
all my clients to do is gettheir bloods checked.
And you know, if if you have togo down the private route,
there's there's plenty of waysto do that as well.
SPEAKER_01 (24:57):
Definitely.
Mate, I couldn't agree more.
And it's interesting how there'san age limit on it.
Like I've had a lot of clientswork getting them prostate
screenings because I'm the sameas you, and I've got my data
here, and we'll I'll share somethings with you from a blood
work perspective.
But even Whoop, it's only goingto get better.
But the fact that I've had aWHOO for like five or six years,
there's five or six years worthof data that is only going to
(25:17):
get better that when I'm in my40s and 50s, there'll be a
baseline so that it will be morespecific to me, the results that
I'm getting in the future or theblood work that I'm getting in
the future, as opposed to theindividual who has their first
bit of blood work at 50, andthey don't really have any
better, they're just going offgeneric guidelines, not sp
what's specific for them.
SPEAKER_00 (25:37):
Exactly.
And I mean, even when you askedme the question before about
exercise, the the answer toexercise or your blood mark is
it depends.
Every individual, and this isone thing I found working
across, you know, I've probablyworked with a hundred blokes
now, and it's like across all ofthem, it's different things that
they need to work on.
It's like you'll never see mepost any kind of educational
(26:01):
content around you should bedoing this.
The simple fact is that there'sonly a few things that you can
generalize that are effective.
One is move your body, two issleep enough, and then three,
like eat enough protein.
If you hit tick those three,like they're the generalized
kind of blanket statements youcan make.
But then when it comes down tothe type of exercise or the
(26:22):
types of exercises, or how manyreps, how many sets, how much
weight, like all of thesethings, it all depends.
And it's the same for your bloodmark, is is you know, if I get
my bloods, actually I've takenmy bloods every quarter for the
last four or five years, likesince I've been an exercise
physiologist.
And what I've noticed is isduring times when my training is
is consistent and frequent andI'm hitting PBs and all that
(26:45):
kind of stuff, my testosteronegoes up to like my free test is
probably around like 600.
Whereas when I take the foot offthe pedal a bit with training,
or you know, I allow work totake over, that's when my
testosterone correlates with asignificant drop down to about
400.
And it's like when you'relooking at those, and that's
(27:06):
just my behavior that'sdifferent.
Let alone you add in nutrition,and like I I don't drink
alcohol, so it's not even likealcohol is contributing to it as
well.
So it's like little tinybehavioral changes can influence
your testosterone before evenhaving to worry about you know
replacement therapy and thingslike that.
And as a bloke who's 28, likethen I'm not not going to go on
testosterone replacement.
I'm too young.
(27:26):
Yeah.
I don't want to be jamming myass.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Definitely not.
But it's interesting, like itdoes we don't take into account
age for a young business owner.
If if they get a coach orguidance, it's just like, well,
know your numbers, regardless ofyour age.
They don't say, hey, you'reyoung, you'll be able to sort of
fumble your way through, andonce you get to 40, then we'll
start tracking your numbers.
No, no, no.
We do that instantly because weknow that that's a benchmark to
(27:49):
build from, and it gives you thefeedback to make better
decisions.
And some of the things you saidbefore, it's like you can make
those blanket statements, butwhere it gets personalized is
through trying things andgetting feedback.
And obviously, the feedbacktakes time.
And that's why, for example,you've said you'd you've been
doing your bloods for the lastfive years, like that's so
(28:09):
benefit every quarter, right?
That's what 20 almost 20different readings for your
blood work, which is incredibledata.
And it's been giving youfeedback to be able to modify
behaviors, know what works wellfor you and what doesn't, rather
than someone just saying, Jesse,I think you should do this,
mate.
And you're like, Well, based offthe data of my blood work when
I'm testing these things, andthis is why we should test and
(28:31):
track things, if they'reimportant to you.
If they're not, don't worryabout it, that's too
overwhelming.
But if it's important for you toimprove a specific thing, test
and measure, baby.
SPEAKER_00 (28:40):
I I'll uh override that comment.
And if you can't, if if it's nota priority to you, get yourself
a coach or someone that knowsthis shit so you're not
overwhelmed by it.
Like, that's the point of anexercise physiologist or a coach
like yourself.
It's like I don't expecteveryone to have all of the
knowledge of being able to readtheir own blood or being able to
(29:02):
do the exactly the the mostprecise program for themselves.
Like that's why I went touniversity.
That's why we've got experiencecoaching people for years.
And so it's like if you aresomeone that's like, you know,
not sure where to go, not surewhat what your mark, your your
blood markers should be, or youknow, what you need to work on
(29:24):
next in order to get that nextlevel, that's why coaches exist.
100%.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Definitely.
Yeah.
I even like I and this isanother point, like I know how
to program myself to runmarathons, but I still pay a
marathon coach to coach mepurely because I'd rather focus
on other things.
I just want to get given theprogram, do the program,
hopefully get a result.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:45):
Then give my attention to other things.
SPEAKER_00 (29:47):
100%.
And that's where it's like, youknow, you wouldn't go down the
path of learning how to dosurgery on yourself.
Like that's that.
Like it's why do we look at itlike obviously surgery, that's a
really big thing, right?
And that takes, you know,decades of of education and
practice and experience.
But so does understanding allthe different connections of
(30:09):
your body from your nervoussystem to your hormones to your
inflammation to your muscles toyour joints, like all of these
components that you know you'renot expected to know every
aspect of this.
SPEAKER_01 (30:19):
So for people listening who are thinking, oh,
you know, and obviously what wewould s suggest is what you just
said, if you don't feel like youknow the next steps, go see
someone like Jesse or likemyself and get guidance, right?
You you you use us to get fasttracked, right?
Get a wealth of informalinformation and knowledge in a
(30:40):
shorter period of time.
If people aren't wanting to dothat or maybe aren't in a
position to do that, what wouldbe some next steps that they
could take off this call tostart making some improvements
in their life?
SPEAKER_00 (30:51):
Go and measure things.
That's that's the startingpoint.
So, and then listening topodcasts like this, like you're
already preaching to the to thechoir, like these guys they're
already listening to podcasts toimprove their knowledge and to
prove their health.
So they're already on that page.
It's not like we're speaking topeople who are you know singing
a carton of beers every singleday.
I mean, it might be.
(31:11):
I'm sure there's some people whodo both.
Absolute weapons.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, go and get thingsmeasured.
So whether it's your bloods, orwhether you know you go and see
how much weight you can lift, ortracking your body weight, or
like there's so Many differentthings that at the end of the
day, like there's a saying, andit's is it's what gets measured
(31:33):
gets improved.
And there's a reason that's sucha prominent saying, and that's
it's true.
It's like when you're trying tosave money, you don't not look
at your bank account, you don'tnot look at you know the things
that are taking out of youraccount, you're not looking at
well, you don't not look at yourincome.
So it's the same for if if youwant your your bank balance to
(31:53):
look better, you monitor it, youmeasure it, you see where the
gaps are, and you try andimprove it.
Love it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:00):
And what's your thoughts around like community
also being an important tool?
Like what is the importance ofcommunity and brotherhood?
SPEAKER_00 (32:07):
So, I mean, i in the talk I spoke about how there's
there's like three componentsthat contribute to your to a
man's mental health.
And there's biology, which we'vekind of spoken quite a bit
about, there's behavior, whichis you know, the exercise, the
sleep, the recovery protocols,all of those kinds of things.
And then there's thebrotherhood.
(32:27):
And the brotherhood, I justchose that because it was like
biology, behavior, brotherhood,it could all kind of all the
bees.
The three B's.
But it's easy to remember, andand what I mean by brotherhoods,
I'm not just talking about yourmates or your actual brothers,
I'm talking about your supportnetwork, your relationships,
even your culture and yoursocial economic background.
All of these componentscontribute to your mental
(32:50):
health.
So if you're just looking at thebehaviour component, you're not
going to improve your mentalhealth.
If you just look at the biology,you're not gonna improve your
health.
If you just look at the youknow, the support network, I
mean, that would actuallyprobably have quite a
significant impact on yourmental health, but nowhere near
as much as if you focused on allof them.
So, yeah, that that brotherhoodcomponent.
(33:10):
And I mean, the examples I usedin the talk that I'll pull it
up.
Where is it?
SPEAKER_01 (33:17):
Because I think it's like one in three men report
feeling lonely.
And because I was reading astudy uh maybe three weeks ago,
I was very interested in it, butlike the risk of feeling lonely
for those men, whether it's onein three, one in four, it's the
same as smoking 15 cigarettes aday.
Like, that's pretty impactful.
Like, that's a lot of diarrhoes.
I haven't smoked for about adecade, but geez, you're gonna
(33:40):
be waking up with a sore throat,and you know, then the impact
that that has, not having a matethat you feel you can confide
in, not having friends there topull you out of a rut, because
we all do go through seasonswhere we feel stuck and we feel
like things aren't movingforward, and sometimes we can't
get ourselves out of it, andsometimes we don't want to, you
know, don't take that step toask for professional help.
(34:01):
So that's where it's as yousaid, having that brotherhood
who can see, and they're likeJesse or Lockie.
You're not being your normalself.
We notice that you're sort ofstarting to keep to yourself,
come for come for a game of golfor come to the gym with me, or
whatever it may be.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
Yeah, so it it's all about like building a network or
or building your circle withpeople who actually want the
best for you.
There's there's a lot of people,you know, that you might have
met in your life that yeah,they're in your circle, but if
there was a time when you'restruggling, they're not reaching
out, they're not gonna provideyou support.
They're at if anything, theymight even get angry at you
(34:38):
because you know you'restruggling and and you're not
who you used to be.
And it's like those are thetypes of people you want to
actually kind of phase out andgive less attention to.
And you want to give attentionto people who are actually gonna
lift you up, people thatencourage you, people that are
going to support healthybehaviors and not just get upset
at you for, you know, not beingfun or not getting on the piss
(35:00):
or whatever it might be.
So it's it's about building thatkind of well, e even, you know,
you you've taught me thisthrough the Man at Cam project,
and something that I'veimplemented in the project up,
is the aspect of community is isis so important because you need
to have like a shared outcome,like a shared direction.
If you've got a circle of matesand they're all going in
(35:22):
different directions,particularly with health-wise
and and you know, even inbusiness and and all that kind
of stuff, it's like, well, youbecome the average of whatever
is in there.
And therefore, it's like not avery good trajectory.
Whereas when you're around abunch of people who, you know,
they do invest time in theirhealth, they do prioritize their
health, they're like prprioritizing their health over,
you know, late nights out, orprioritizing business over
(35:45):
whatever else.
It's it's like when you can whenyou're well, they say you are
the average of five people youhang around.
When those five people aresuccessful and healthy, you
become successful and you becomehealthy.
Like it's it's it's extremely,extremely like a lot of people
don't realize the impact thisactually has.
Definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (36:04):
It's that it's that compound effect.
Like if you're being Yeah,what's your focus on grows?
And if, as you said, the bloke'slike I've never had more I've
learned more about all domainsfrom great marriages to how to
build wealth because of thepeople that I'm surrounded by
surrounded by because they'reyou know building wealth through
property, they're buildingwealth through X, Y, and Z, and
(36:25):
I'm just getting to like go fora beer or go for a training
session with them and hear whatthey're doing, and I'm like,
interesting, like that's aninteresting perspective on that.
And then sometimes they offeryou to do things in in that
field that you wouldn't havenormally got, and it helps you
break into a different area, andit's no different to having
mates who call you out for poorbehavior in your marriage or
poor conversations or negativeself-talk or you know, notice
(36:48):
that you've been fucking lazyfor the last month that you
haven't been at the gym, andthey're like, come on, mate,
let's let's go.
And that just you know helps youprogress at a much faster rate.
And that's why it's so importantto audit your relationships.
You must reflect upon the valuethat the people that you're
surrounding yourself with arebringing to your life, and also
you know, how you want to be asa mate as well, making sure that
(37:09):
you're uplifting, you'rechallenging people, and you're
making their world better.
100%.
SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
And what like talking more on like like
statistics side of things, youmentioned that what was it, one
in three men experienceloneliness.
So what I shared in the talk wasthere's this thing called the
wartime mental health paradox.
And so you'd think duringwartime, and this is not just
like World War I or World WarII, but every time there is a
war, the country that isaffected, their rates of
(37:40):
depression, anxiety, self-harm,suicide, all those kinds of
things plummet drastically.
Not because they're not beingmeasured, but because when it's
a matter of survival, it's likewe we default back to working as
a community.
We're working with one solidpurpose.
And so obviously I'm I'm notencouraging war, but it's like
(38:03):
to learn from that, which is thestructure and the shared
purpose, and that that you know,the the camaraderie, the
brotherhood, all you know,almost focusing on on like
staying alive and and andworking together to stay alive.
And that's that's literally howhumans have evolved to be.
So that it does it's it's ano-brainer why that has such a
(38:23):
significant impact on our on ourmental health.
SPEAKER_01 (38:26):
It's it sounds when you say it like that, it sounds
really simple to make sense of.
Obviously, the implementation ofthat is where it gets difficult,
but if people can slow downenough to see like where where
is that in mind, where am I whatwhat's the common goal with the
people that I'm surroundingmyself with?
How can they pick me up when I'mfalling down and vice versa?
(38:47):
Like, so it's why men lovesports, like and people in
general really gravitate tosports because there is a common
goal.
It's like it doesn't matterwhether you're on the pitch or
you're part of theadministration team or you're
sweeping the sheds, you're allwanting to see the team do well.
And your role is just as crucialas you know delivering it
towards that.
SPEAKER_00 (39:05):
100%.
And and I mean, this is theimportance of of any kind of
community, whether it's you'reyou know, whether you do run a
business and you have employeesor it's your family or it's
anything, you've it to haveshared goals is probably like
the most powerful aspect, butthen also to practice on that.
If if you had a team but younever the team never met up or
the team never played or theteam never trained, you don't
(39:28):
have a team.
So there was another kind ofstatistic to look at, and that
was through like well, it kindof explained why one of the
reasons why mental health haslike worsened over the years,
and that they it correlatesquite well with the decline in
religion as well.
So as religion has declined, thethe studies across so the
(39:49):
consensus across individualsthat are religious and practice,
so it's not just whether they'rereligious or not, it's whether
they are religious and practice.
So whether they go to whetherit's a church or a mosque or
whatever it is, whateverreligion they're a part of, if
they go to that community andthey're a part of that community
and they're practicing in thatcommunity, their aspects of
(40:11):
their rates of loneliness werelike ten times lower than those,
even if they were religious, butdidn't practice.
So that shows you once againthat that structure and the
community and a little bit moreof the purpose and that kind of
stuff as well, because obviouslyreligion shares one you know
common teaching.
SPEAKER_01 (40:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:29):
So that was one of the other components.
SPEAKER_01 (40:31):
Highly powerful.
That and I I when I moved toAmerica, obviously religion is
in your face a lot over there,and I also have noticed a lot of
people that I have been friendswith and or still am friends
with and or f follow on socialmedia were turning to religion,
and I was really interested inwhy that was happening, and then
I stumbled across a podcast, andone of the things that the
(40:53):
gentleman said was exactly whatyou just shared there, and I was
like, Yes, they may not agreewith all of the things in
religion, but it's giving themsome black and white values to
to follow as a greater meaning,and it gives them a community to
be part of that's bigger thanthemselves.
And I you know thought aboutthat and I was like, that makes
sense because a lot of peopleare lacking that in their life.
So if that's something thatticks a few boxes, amazing.
(41:15):
Like it's only going to makethem better people.
SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
And I guess that's another component that like it
doesn't have to be a religion,it just it's amplifying the
aspects of like face-to-faceinteraction, and even if it's
just like this on a call, likeit this is more effective than a
phone call, which is just avoice, or that's more effective
than just a text message.
SPEAKER_01 (41:35):
Yep.
unknown (41:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (41:37):
What about a video message?
I mean, that's there's it's onlyone way though.
SPEAKER_01 (41:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
But it's it's the sharing of of emotion, it's the
sharing of of you know, becausewe communicate through text but
through language, but we alsocommunic communicate through
nonverbal communication.
So, you know, if I was just likeslumped in like this and like
not really paying attention, youwouldn't really be interacting
anywhere near as much.
No, you'd be like talking to abrick wall.
(42:02):
But this kind of bit ofspaghetti.
Yeah, that's it.
And so that's where like I mean,you had it in the Man That Can
project, and it's something thatI've implemented in Project Up,
is is like a weekly call wherewe all just get together and we
just chat like about our goalsand about where we're at, and
then you know that at leastbuilds some kind of like just a
(42:25):
like even if it's somethingsmall like that, you feel like
you belong, you feel like you'rea part of something, and you are
also held accountable by therest of the people in the group.
100%.
SPEAKER_01 (42:34):
But Jay Boy, this time's flown, made and obviously
we can talk about so much more.
It's been incredible.
I'm genuinely proud of the workthat you're doing.
For those who want to get intouch with you and find out more
about what you're doing and Iguess keep up with your content,
etc., where should people go?
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
Thanks, man.
I really appreciate that.
That's uh it means a lot to meas well.
But where to find me atjesse.healthcoach on Instagram,
and that's probably where I'mmost active.
But you can find me on LinkedInand Facebook and all that kind
of stuff as well, JesseO'Sullivan.
But yeah, I'll I've got somehuge plans for Project Up and
yeah, it's starting to all takeplace, which is really cool.
It's on the up.
SPEAKER_01 (43:13):
It's on the up.
I'll link all of that below.
But mate, thank you for yourtime and have an amazing
weekend.
Legend.
Thank you so much, mate.
Welcome back to the Man the Cam project.
I'm excited.
This one, this is your thirdtime or fourth time, JB?
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
Third of it just being us two.
And then I was on a like a Teamsone.
Panel.
Yeah.
A panel.
Yeah.
A while back.
SPEAKER_01 (01:12):
Welcome back.
It's been a while.
Thanks, brother.
SPEAKER_00 (01:14):
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
It's growing longer.
It definitely is.
For everyone uh listening, JesseO'Sullivan, we met in 2019.
I think it was 2019.
Yeah, six weeks.
Yeah.
Yeah, end of 2019, start of2020.
And you've been on a number oftimes since you've been part of
our academy, and we've done somework together.
(01:38):
And now you're just a reallyfine example of someone who's
decided who they want to becomeand what life they want to build
for themselves, and you'recontinuing to evolve and grow.
And it's very inspiring towatch.
I stumbled across a post thatyou put up maybe a month ago
where you were talking about howyou were going to give a keynote
at the Australian Men's HealthGathering.
And I was like, we need to getthis legend on here, talking
(02:01):
about some of the things thatyou were going to be talking to
industry experts and leadersabout because our listeners,
men, and the women have men intheir life that can be a part of
the conversation that you weredelivering for many people.
So thanks for coming back on,brother.
Absolutely, man.
It's a pleasure to be here.
And uh thanks for theopportunity.
And so just quickly before wedive in, how was it for you,
(02:23):
obviously knowing the journeythat you've been on and
positioning yourself as anexpert in the industry and on
the topics, you know, some ofwhich we will discuss today, to
be invited to speak at anindustry event?
SPEAKER_00 (02:34):
It was kind of like I know, it was extremely
exciting when it when it came tofruition.
Like initially it was just like,Hail Mary, I'll I'll see if see
see if they'll accept it.
And then yeah, when they theyaccepted it and they're like, Oh
yeah, you're on a Friday, andthey kind of locked it in, and I
was just like, Oh shit, this isactually happening, this is
sick.
But the feeling of it was wasliterally like I've I've built
(02:56):
my knowledge and refined it tobe very specific.
And now it's like, well, what'sthe point of that knowledge if I
can't share it?
So yeah, it's just theexcitement to be able to share
that with the world.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Did you ever think like 2020 you would be doing
keynote talks and talks?
Like, was that ever somethingfirstly you wanted to do?
And now along the way, was itsomething that you thought you
would be doing?
SPEAKER_00 (03:19):
Not exactly, no.
So, I mean, and definitely notwhen I was younger.
So I actually just put a postout yesterday talking about
this, but I in high school justflat out refused to do
presentations.
Like I'd rather fail than, youknow, well, I'd usually try and
find a way to do it without alot of people in the room.
Um just because like I wouldphysically shake, my palms would
be sweaty, I I would literallylike my heart would be beating
(03:41):
in my chest, I'd be stutteringand splattering my words, and it
was just not a great experience.
And so it was like one of mybiggest fears was public
speaking.
And then it led me to I actuallyfail one of my first semesters
at uni because like I justwasn't able to deliver the
content through that medium.
And then it kind of like dawnedon me that it's like, well, if
(04:01):
this is a weakness, but like Ihad I knew I had the goal of of
making an impact in in men'shealth, like ever since I was
probably like, I don't know, 19or so, when I figured out that I
I wanted to make a solid impactin in that area.
And it real I like I kind ofrealised that if I don't
overcome this fear, then I'm notgonna ever achieve that last
(04:25):
mission.
So yeah, being able to get ontothis national stage and share
this like this knowledge withpeople.
It was I would definitely saythe the best presentation I've
ever done in terms of mydelivery, my confidence, and
it's just because it's like mybread and butter.
(04:46):
It's it's it's like it's thestuff I talk to my clients every
day.
And yeah, it was just reallyexciting.
SPEAKER_01 (04:53):
What was the main takeaway that you wanted to
leave the audience with on thatday?
SPEAKER_00 (04:58):
That well, movement is medicine is probably the the
the backbone of it.
Because be being an exercisephysiologist, men's health
coach, and kind of focusing inthe in that space, like one of
the key things that I've foundis is that during the times in
my life that exercise is apriority, my health is like
fucking way better.
And not just mental health, butlike physical health, my my
(05:20):
energy throughout the day, mylike my motivation to get other
things done, my clarity, mybrain, like brain fog just
disappears, like that kind ofstuff is all like benefited just
from that one thing.
So like yeah, movement asmedicine is probably the main
story.
SPEAKER_01 (05:35):
It's such a powerful thing, and like motion creates
emotion.
And I know there's a stat fromthe University of South
Australia, which was from acouple of years ago, but
physical activity can be 1.5times more effective than
counselling and medication fordepression, which is
mind-blowing because you have togo digging for that.
Like to me, I've all I've neverwalked away from a workout
(05:57):
feeling crap, like I felt tired.
Don't get me wrong, I've beenbusted, but I've always walked
away feeling empowered and beenlike that sense of satisfaction
and achievement.
But you you've been, you know,you've said and I've seen you
talk about it, but like strengthtraining works like an uh
anti-anxiety drug, and cardioworks like an antidepressant.
Like, can you break it down forus just for all the lads
(06:19):
listening?
SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
Well, particularly with men, is we're almost
hardwired, like it's in ourgenes to move.
Like, you know, back in the daywe would go hunting and you
know, sprint after wild animalsand you know have to wrestle
them and all this kind of stuff,and then carry big heavy, you
know, you know, game back to thevillage or whatever it might be.
So it's like we evolved to bevery athletic and and very
(06:43):
active humans.
And then as we've gone into thissociety, it's like, you know,
I've got a nice little officehere, and it's like I I find
myself sitting down a lot.
And it's like, well, I'm I'm aI'm an active person, but I need
to make sure I still implementthe activity aspects because
like if I'm not, then when I'msitting down doing my work, it's
it's nowhere near as good.
(07:04):
And the simple fact is thatthat's in our genes.
That's it, like that's thebackbone to how we are motivated
in the world.
So that's where the the strengthcomponent is more along the
lines of building yourself-efficacy, which is like
your ability to believe inyourself and and to do hard
things that you can actually doit.
(07:25):
Because when you think aboutanxiety, anxiety is the
opposite.
The anxiety is is self-doubt.
Anxiety is fear of failure,anxiety is is just not wanting
to try in in case you f fail.
So when you can strength trainand you realize, oh, that hard
thing, that really heavy thingthat I thought was too heavy to
lift, I could lift that.
(07:47):
It's like reinforcing that partof the brain.
And then with the antidepressantside of things, with the aerobic
aspect, I mean there's a lot ofstudies to suggest it's it's
it's more multifaceted.
So one of the key things isblood flow.
So when you're able to increaseblood flow to your brain, it's
able to deliver nutrients andremove the toxins and all that
(08:09):
kind of stuff ten times betterthan when you're completely, you
know, stationary or sedentary.
So that's one of the components.
And then the other component isusually aerobic activity,
cardio, requires you to gooutside and do something
outside.
Or it's it's almost like thethere's a a rhythmic action.
And I I think I'm I'm not 100%sure of of of the why in in that
(08:34):
space, but it's it's the there'sthat proof that like even having
terrain moving past it I don't II can't really describe it very
well, but it's it's like thatmovement of the terrain past our
eyes is relaxing for the brainand allows it to be calm and
down, and it helps us regulatethat nervous system of fight or
flight or rest and digest.
It helps us balance that out andand fix that.
SPEAKER_01 (08:56):
It's such an important point there, even
looking at, as you said, fromwhether it's strength training
or cardiovascular training, likethe key thing, and you've tied
it back into like doing hardthings, but it ultimately
stressing the body, allowing thebody to recover and then
allowing it to adapt so that wecan become more efficient and
that you know the mind and bodyare linked, they're one system,
even though people try toseparate them, they both impact
(09:20):
impact each other.
And the crazy thing is that I'msure you see as well with the
clients that you work with, Isee it a lot with the men that I
work with, is they're just notstrong in their body.
And many of them see fitness asa luxury.
It's like, I'll do that when, oronce I get through this busy
period in my life, I'll startexercising again.
I'm like, no, no, no, no, you'relooking at it completely wrong.
(09:42):
This is the thing that affordsyou to be able to do that for a
sustained period of time at ahigh level.
And there's also more stats, Idon't have it written down here,
that like four in fiveAustralians don't meet the
minimum exercise targets for themental health benefits.
Like four in five?
Yeah, that's freaking like itwouldn't be on the Gold Coast
where you are because everyone'sout getting fit, but most other
(10:03):
places, it's just people aren'tdoing the things, and it might
be because we don't know whereto start, we don't feel
comfortable, we don't have asense of community, whatever
they are.
But if you think about whatyou've said, like movement is
medicine, and we'll talk aboutsick care system soon, because
this sort of leads into that, iswe need to start finding a way
to, as you've done with yourspeaking, even you look at it
(10:24):
and you go, if I really want tohave out the outcome that you
wanted, you said I need toovercome this and I need to
educate and I need to put myselfin a position to.
Same goes for all the people whowant longevity and want to have
a great quality of life as theyget older and they start reaping
the fruits of their labor fromtheir career.
You need to start doing the worknow.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
A hundred percent.
And and even when we look atanyone that's successful, unless
you win the bloody lotto, it'slike you're going to be faced
with stress.
And the key component toexercise and and movement is you
actually increase your toleranceto stress.
So I can't I can always I alwaysforget the name of this part of
(11:06):
the brain, but I've like lookedinto it and it's it's it's a
part of the brain that actuallygrows and gets bigger when you
overcome hard things.
So this then decreases your riskassessment, or not risk
assessment, but like threatanalysis.
It decreases that alarm bell.
(11:26):
And so like an individual thatis probably most commonly known
is is David Goggins.
And they scan his brain, andthis part of his brain is like
the biggest of any human they'veever come across.
Wow.
So there's literally part ofyour brain that grows to deal
with stress, to deal with liketo increase your tolerance to
stress.
(11:47):
So you're saying resilience canbe built?
100%.
It's it's it's like a muscle,but it's in your brain.
It's it's a component withinyour brain.
And that's where in in the talk,I like being in a room full of
practitioners, like I wanted toshare the parts of the brain and
how they are impacted byexercise.
And one of the key things iswhen we're super stressed, or
(12:07):
chronically stressed even, welose our dopamine, right?
So we our ability to producedopamine decreases.
So for those who don't know,dopamine is like the it's not
the reward chemical, it's it'slike the desire chemical.
It's it's the thing that makesus want more, right?
And it's it's what gives usreward for doing things.
(12:29):
But when that's burnt out, allof a sudden we need to resort to
cheaper, faster dopamine to feelthe same excitement and
motivation.
So that's where a lot of blokesself-sabotage down that path of
alcohol and drugs and and womenand whatever else.
And it's because when youexercise, you're increasing that
(12:50):
that toll that well nottolerance, but the increase the
sensitivity to dopamine and theproduction of dopamine.
Yeah, and and it's like becauseit's actually earned, it's it's
it's literally like it's morepowerful that way than it is
when you know, if you do a lineof cocaine, it floods your brain
with dopamine really, reallyquick, but then it crashes
(13:10):
really quick.
And then you're you're searchingfor that high again.
But the racking up another lineand going again.
Whereas the dopamine you getfrom these hard tasks, they it
it pro it's like a prolongedrelease for a lot longer, for
literally hours after.
And that's where even someonewith ADHD, it's like, well, I
love exercising in the morningbecause like I am medicated for
(13:33):
ADHD, which is a form of speed,but I don't have to be reliant
on that medication when Iexercise in the morning.
And that's like an insane aspectfor me, where it's like, well, I
don't have to pump myself withfull of these medications when
all I've got to do is just movemy body and get my heart rate
up, and then I get all thebenefit of that.
SPEAKER_01 (13:53):
So when you're looking at the structure of
programming for some like let'sjust say you're an individual,
you're a high-performing bloke,and you may not be training for
anything specifically, whetherit's bodybuilding or a Spartan
race or a marathon or whateverit is, but you're just listening
to what you're saying, andyou're like, Jesse, you know, I
want to stress myself more, Iwant the recovery and I want the
(14:13):
adaptation.
What would like, I guess,obviously, loosely put, it's
different for everyone, but agood training structure look
like?
If we were to say, you know, afive-day training week, what
would that roughly look like?
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
So, I mean, looking at that research paper that you
suggested, I was I was actuallylooking through this before this
podcast.
I really were looking at thesame one.
Yeah, the exact same becauseit's it's probably the most
prominent study.
Like when you look at thequality of a study, this one's a
meta-analysis review.
So it's taken all themeta-analysis, which reviews of
all the other tests, so of allthe random control trials.
(14:49):
So it's a a study of a study ofstudies, which is like the
ultimate study.
And and of that, there's overlike a thousand different
studies they've done.
And across that is also, I thinkit was like 149,000
participants.
So the data, yeah, it's not justlooking at 10 people and
(15:12):
exercising 10 people, 140,000people is like insane.
And that's across every age.
Well, the the average age waslike, I think like 24 all the
way up to I think it was about86, but the average was 55.
But regardless of that, back toyour question, is the
recommendations within thisstudy, it looked at session
(15:34):
frequency, duration, mode, allof those components.
What I would say is like it'slike the sweet spot in the
middle.
There's if you do too much, it'sit it's like there's a sweet
dose.
You want the minimum effectivedose.
If you go under, it's noteffective.
And therefore, so anything thatwas low intensity or low
(15:56):
frequency, so you know, only oneor two days a week wasn't really
effective.
Low intensity wasn't really lowuh wasn't really effective
anywhere near as much as highintensity and and moderate
intensity.
So when you're looking at likethe structure, you want to go
for four to five days was thebest outcome for both depression
and anxiety.
And then the total minutesthroughout the week was around
(16:18):
that 150 minutes, which has beenthe guidelines for fucking 20
years.
Yeah.
So like yeah, 150 minutes ofmoderate to vigorous exercise in
terms of the mode, as Imentioned before, like different
modes allow for differentaspects, but really it it was
they were all effective.
Right?
So even things like yoga andstretching, but then you don't
(16:40):
get the intensity component.
Yeah.
So it doesn't really matter whatyou do, it just matters how
often you do it, and that's fiveto four to five times per week,
and then accumulate a total of150 minutes across the week.
And so if you do that, then youknow you you're ticking you're
getting the best response fromit.
SPEAKER_01 (16:58):
Yeah.
I think one of the great thingsabout when we look at frequency
as well is if you start makingit something that you do five
days a week, or even for me, Imove seven days a week in
various differences ofintensity, but it becomes part
of my identity.
And the reason why I'm gratefulthat health and active, you
know, consciously andintentionally uh intentionally
(17:19):
moving is it's a healthierversion.
I I still consider myself anathlete, and because I consider
myself an athlete, I makehealthier movement choices,
recovery choices, nutritionchoices, which I believe in the
long term, and even though I'mnot a competitive athlete, but
even in the long term, I thinkthat mindset and that part of my
identity is going to serve me inthe future.
(17:40):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Beautiful.
And I guess even for me, likeI'm in between training for
events.
What I'm doing, just to give anexample for people out there, is
I'm currently doing threestrength training sessions a
week, one sort of zone two, likeessentially being able to go for
a run talking to a mate, likeit's not intense, and then one
(18:01):
30-minute hit high intensitysession at the gym as well.
And that's what mine looks likeat the moment, and it's covering
all bases, and I it it'sactually kicking my ass at the
moment because I've only reallybeen doing a lot of long runs
for the last two years.
So being back into strength,it's getting my nervous system
pumped up, my brain, and thenthe high intensity.
Holy crap, but it's sosatisfying at the same time.
SPEAKER_00 (18:23):
Yeah, the the the flood afterwards, the the the
you know, the endorphins, thatdopamine, that well, I mean they
they call it the runner's high,but you know, you can get it
from anything.
And it's it's it's like thatflood of all those
neurotransmitters, which whenyou're looking at depression and
anxiety, those neurotransmittersare like completely burnt out.
So you've got low serotonin, lowdopamine.
(18:45):
And then there's also anotherthing that's released with
strength training, which isreally beneficial, particularly
for anxiety and PTSD, is forget,it's like BNFD, so it's brain
neurotropic factor something.
Yeah, I've got to hearbrain-derived uh neurotropic
factor, yeah, BDNF.
BDNF, right?
That's increased during strengthtraining, and the benefit of
(19:08):
that is that's what allows us tocreate new neural pathways.
So oftentimes like people willtalk about like, oh, they you
know, their first thought ortheir first reaction is
negative.
And that's like a neural pathwaythat's ingrained in our brains
because that used to protect us.
Whereas so if we heard arustling in the bushes, it was
(19:29):
eas it was safer and you know,it would allow us to live longer
to assume that was somethingbad.
But in our life now, it's notanywhere near as effective.
But the more we allow that kindof thought process to lead and
and control our life, the morethat neural pathway gets gets
like solidified.
(19:50):
But this this BDNF stuff, itallows us to lay new pathways,
positive thoughts, these thenthat's that self-efficacy.
That's the I can do this, I canbelieve in myself, and I'm
capable.
I think that's what motivatesany man is like we want to feel
capable.
SPEAKER_01 (20:08):
Dude, so so good.
And I hadn't looked into thattoo much until obviously you
sent me some key points aroundyour talk, and I went down a bit
of a rabbit hole.
So that was fascinating for mebecause I'm always thinking
about boosting mood.
Like I was chatting with a blokeyesterday that's potentially
going to do some work with me,and his life's amazing, like
doing really well from a careerstandpoint, super healthy, all
(20:29):
of that sort of stuff.
But he's like, when I jump outof bed, like I just don't feel
energized, I feel flat.
And I was like, as we're digginginto it, I'm like, what's your
eating like?
He's like, Yeah, I eat reallywell.
And what it boiled down to forhim was the lack of strength
training, which obviously,having read what you've shared
with me, I was like, Oh, therewe go, there's a great link, but
(20:50):
also not having purpose, like asolidified purpose outside of
career, meaning we've built thecareer, but for what purpose did
I build the career to thatlevel?
And why am I not doing thethings that I thought would it
would provide me with afterthat?
And that's why where I getexcited because we get to put
the spring and the step back inthe individual's body going,
hey, you know, for me, I'malways trying to get men strong
(21:10):
in their body, calm in theirmind, clear in their purpose,
and confident in life.
Like very simple process, but Ithink you have to start with the
body because there's it's thepath of least resistance.
(21:51):
Yeah.
For most people, anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
For I mean, obviously, you've got people who
are clinically depressed and andand you know, severely anxious
and things like that.
And that obviously that's that'swhen you need to see, you know,
a psychologist, a professional,to you know, that's sometimes
that's where medication can helpas a as almost see that
medication as a gateway drug toexercise.
(22:15):
Because it's it's like once youget momentum with exercise, it's
like the hardest is the thehardest thing to do is to start.
Like once you've started, likeif you can hold on to it, and as
you said, it's like it's a loteasier to make it a daily thing
than a once or twice a weekthing.
It's like, you know, it's thesame for our sleep.
It's it's far better for us tofocus on our sleep seven days a
(22:37):
week than it is to only focus onit five days a week.
And so like more is or morefrequently is always better when
it comes to particularly a habitthat you want to form rather
than it just being a task.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
That's a great way to put it.
So I want to sort of move intowe we mentioned sick care
before, but the Australianhealthcare is to make a bit of
sick care, as you've mentioned,what do you feel is broken and
what needs to change if we wantreal health, not symptom
management?
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
Well, one of the key aspects of my presentation was
that your your mental health isyour physical health.
And the thing is, is is like ifwe wait until our physical
health is terrible, and youknow, and then all of a sudden
that's when we go down thepathway of diagnosis.
But even the diagnosis requiresto see a specialist and and all
of these like you know, lengthywait times and all that kind of
(23:29):
stuff, and and it's reallyfucking expensive, right?
So when you're looking at all ofthese things, it's like, well,
preventative is like a ten timesvalue saver.
So whether it's your time savingor whether it's your energy or
whether it's your money.
And so that's where like theissue with our healthcare is
(23:50):
like one example I spoke about,was spoke to you about before
the call was was that like if weget our bloods done, for
starters, like as a 28-year-old,and I went to my doctor and I
said, Hey, I want to get mybloods checked, and they'll be
like, Oh, why?
And it's like, oh well, justwant to see where I'm at.
He's like, well, no.
Just straight up, no, you'reyoung and you're healthy, you
look fine.
You got no complaints.
(24:12):
And the issue with that is isthat well well, how do I know,
like, you know, I I could be lowin testosterone or I could be
really high in inflammatorinflammatory markers, that yeah,
I don't have a physical illnessor disability yet, but I don't
want to wait until that momentwhen, you know, I am clinically
depressed, or I am clinicallyanxious, or, you know, am more
(24:36):
more predisposed to whateverillnesses are out there because
I I don't know where my healthmarkers are at.
So I've gone down like more of aprivate route for myself and my
clients, and that that'ssomething that I'll recommend
all my clients to do is gettheir bloods checked.
And you know, if if you have togo down the private route,
there's there's plenty of waysto do that as well.
SPEAKER_01 (24:57):
Definitely.
Mate, I couldn't agree more.
And it's interesting how there'san age limit on it.
Like I've had a lot of clientswork getting them prostate
screenings because I'm the sameas you, and I've got my data
here, and we'll I'll share somethings with you from a blood
work perspective.
But even Whoop, it's only goingto get better.
But the fact that I've had aWHOO for like five or six years,
there's five or six years worthof data that is only going to
(25:17):
get better that when I'm in my40s and 50s, there'll be a
baseline so that it will be morespecific to me, the results that
I'm getting in the future or theblood work that I'm getting in
the future, as opposed to theindividual who has their first
bit of blood work at 50, andthey don't really have any
better, they're just going offgeneric guidelines, not sp
what's specific for them.
SPEAKER_00 (25:37):
Exactly.
And I mean, even when you askedme the question before about
exercise, the the answer toexercise or your blood mark is
it depends.
Every individual, and this isone thing I found working
across, you know, I've probablyworked with a hundred blokes
now, and it's like across all ofthem, it's different things that
they need to work on.
It's like you'll never see mepost any kind of educational
(26:01):
content around you should bedoing this.
The simple fact is that there'sonly a few things that you can
generalize that are effective.
One is move your body, two issleep enough, and then three,
like eat enough protein.
If you hit tick those three,like they're the generalized
kind of blanket statements youcan make.
But then when it comes down tothe type of exercise or the
(26:22):
types of exercises, or how manyreps, how many sets, how much
weight, like all of thesethings, it all depends.
And it's the same for your bloodmark, is is you know, if I get
my bloods, actually I've takenmy bloods every quarter for the
last four or five years, likesince I've been an exercise
physiologist.
And what I've noticed is isduring times when my training is
is consistent and frequent andI'm hitting PBs and all that
(26:45):
kind of stuff, my testosteronegoes up to like my free test is
probably around like 600.
Whereas when I take the foot offthe pedal a bit with training,
or you know, I allow work totake over, that's when my
testosterone correlates with asignificant drop down to about
400.
And it's like when you'relooking at those, and that's
(27:06):
just my behavior that'sdifferent.
Let alone you add in nutrition,and like I I don't drink
alcohol, so it's not even likealcohol is contributing to it as
well.
So it's like little tinybehavioral changes can influence
your testosterone before evenhaving to worry about you know
replacement therapy and thingslike that.
And as a bloke who's 28, likethen I'm not not going to go on
testosterone replacement.
I'm too young.
(27:26):
Yeah.
I don't want to be jamming myass.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
Definitely not.
But it's interesting, like itdoes we don't take into account
age for a young business owner.
If if they get a coach orguidance, it's just like, well,
know your numbers, regardless ofyour age.
They don't say, hey, you'reyoung, you'll be able to sort of
fumble your way through, andonce you get to 40, then we'll
start tracking your numbers.
No, no, no.
We do that instantly because weknow that that's a benchmark to
(27:49):
build from, and it gives you thefeedback to make better
decisions.
And some of the things you saidbefore, it's like you can make
those blanket statements, butwhere it gets personalized is
through trying things andgetting feedback.
And obviously, the feedbacktakes time.
And that's why, for example,you've said you'd you've been
doing your bloods for the lastfive years, like that's so
(28:09):
benefit every quarter, right?
That's what 20 almost 20different readings for your
blood work, which is incredibledata.
And it's been giving youfeedback to be able to modify
behaviors, know what works wellfor you and what doesn't, rather
than someone just saying, Jesse,I think you should do this,
mate.
And you're like, Well, based offthe data of my blood work when
I'm testing these things, andthis is why we should test and
(28:31):
track things, if they'reimportant to you.
If they're not, don't worryabout it, that's too
overwhelming.
But if it's important for you toimprove a specific thing, test
and measure, baby.
SPEAKER_00 (28:40):
I I'll uh override that comment.
And if you can't, if if it's nota priority to you, get yourself
a coach or someone that knowsthis shit so you're not
overwhelmed by it.
Like, that's the point of anexercise physiologist or a coach
like yourself.
It's like I don't expecteveryone to have all of the
knowledge of being able to readtheir own blood or being able to
(29:02):
do the exactly the the mostprecise program for themselves.
Like that's why I went touniversity.
That's why we've got experiencecoaching people for years.
And so it's like if you aresomeone that's like, you know,
not sure where to go, not surewhat what your mark, your your
blood markers should be, or youknow, what you need to work on
(29:24):
next in order to get that nextlevel, that's why coaches exist.
100%.
SPEAKER_01 (29:29):
Definitely.
Yeah.
I even like I and this isanother point, like I know how
to program myself to runmarathons, but I still pay a
marathon coach to coach mepurely because I'd rather focus
on other things.
I just want to get given theprogram, do the program,
hopefully get a result.
SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (29:45):
Then give my attention to other things.
SPEAKER_00 (29:47):
100%.
And that's where it's like, youknow, you wouldn't go down the
path of learning how to dosurgery on yourself.
Like that's that.
Like it's why do we look at itlike obviously surgery, that's a
really big thing, right?
And that takes, you know,decades of of education and
practice and experience.
But so does understanding allthe different connections of
(30:09):
your body from your nervoussystem to your hormones to your
inflammation to your muscles toyour joints, like all of these
components that you know you'renot expected to know every
aspect of this.
SPEAKER_01 (30:19):
So for people listening who are thinking, oh,
you know, and obviously what wewould s suggest is what you just
said, if you don't feel like youknow the next steps, go see
someone like Jesse or likemyself and get guidance, right?
You you you use us to get fasttracked, right?
Get a wealth of informalinformation and knowledge in a
(30:40):
shorter period of time.
If people aren't wanting to dothat or maybe aren't in a
position to do that, what wouldbe some next steps that they
could take off this call tostart making some improvements
in their life?
SPEAKER_00 (30:51):
Go and measure things.
That's that's the startingpoint.
So, and then listening topodcasts like this, like you're
already preaching to the to thechoir, like these guys they're
already listening to podcasts toimprove their knowledge and to
prove their health.
So they're already on that page.
It's not like we're speaking topeople who are you know singing
a carton of beers every singleday.
I mean, it might be.
(31:11):
I'm sure there's some people whodo both.
Absolute weapons.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, go and get thingsmeasured.
So whether it's your bloods, orwhether you know you go and see
how much weight you can lift, ortracking your body weight, or
like there's so Many differentthings that at the end of the
day, like there's a saying, andit's is it's what gets measured
(31:33):
gets improved.
And there's a reason that's sucha prominent saying, and that's
it's true.
It's like when you're trying tosave money, you don't not look
at your bank account, you don'tnot look at you know the things
that are taking out of youraccount, you're not looking at
well, you don't not look at yourincome.
So it's the same for if if youwant your your bank balance to
(31:53):
look better, you monitor it, youmeasure it, you see where the
gaps are, and you try andimprove it.
Love it.
SPEAKER_01 (32:00):
And what's your thoughts around like community
also being an important tool?
Like what is the importance ofcommunity and brotherhood?
SPEAKER_00 (32:07):
So, I mean, i in the talk I spoke about how there's
there's like three componentsthat contribute to your to a
man's mental health.
And there's biology, which we'vekind of spoken quite a bit
about, there's behavior, whichis you know, the exercise, the
sleep, the recovery protocols,all of those kinds of things.
And then there's thebrotherhood.
(32:27):
And the brotherhood, I justchose that because it was like
biology, behavior, brotherhood,it could all kind of all the
bees.
The three B's.
But it's easy to remember, andand what I mean by brotherhoods,
I'm not just talking about yourmates or your actual brothers,
I'm talking about your supportnetwork, your relationships,
even your culture and yoursocial economic background.
All of these componentscontribute to your mental
(32:50):
health.
So if you're just looking at thebehaviour component, you're not
going to improve your mentalhealth.
If you just look at the biology,you're not gonna improve your
health.
If you just look at the youknow, the support network, I
mean, that would actuallyprobably have quite a
significant impact on yourmental health, but nowhere near
as much as if you focused on allof them.
So, yeah, that that brotherhoodcomponent.
(33:10):
And I mean, the examples I usedin the talk that I'll pull it
up.
Where is it?
SPEAKER_01 (33:17):
Because I think it's like one in three men report
feeling lonely.
And because I was reading astudy uh maybe three weeks ago,
I was very interested in it, butlike the risk of feeling lonely
for those men, whether it's onein three, one in four, it's the
same as smoking 15 cigarettes aday.
Like, that's pretty impactful.
Like, that's a lot of diarrhoes.
I haven't smoked for about adecade, but geez, you're gonna
(33:40):
be waking up with a sore throat,and you know, then the impact
that that has, not having a matethat you feel you can confide
in, not having friends there topull you out of a rut, because
we all do go through seasonswhere we feel stuck and we feel
like things aren't movingforward, and sometimes we can't
get ourselves out of it, andsometimes we don't want to, you
know, don't take that step toask for professional help.
(34:01):
So that's where it's as yousaid, having that brotherhood
who can see, and they're likeJesse or Lockie.
You're not being your normalself.
We notice that you're sort ofstarting to keep to yourself,
come for come for a game of golfor come to the gym with me, or
whatever it may be.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
Yeah, so it it's all about like building a network or
or building your circle withpeople who actually want the
best for you.
There's there's a lot of people,you know, that you might have
met in your life that yeah,they're in your circle, but if
there was a time when you'restruggling, they're not reaching
out, they're not gonna provideyou support.
They're at if anything, theymight even get angry at you
(34:38):
because you know you'restruggling and and you're not
who you used to be.
And it's like those are thetypes of people you want to
actually kind of phase out andgive less attention to.
And you want to give attentionto people who are actually gonna
lift you up, people thatencourage you, people that are
going to support healthybehaviors and not just get upset
at you for, you know, not beingfun or not getting on the piss
(35:00):
or whatever it might be.
So it's it's about building thatkind of well, e even, you know,
you you've taught me thisthrough the Man at Cam project,
and something that I'veimplemented in the project up,
is the aspect of community is isis so important because you need
to have like a shared outcome,like a shared direction.
If you've got a circle of matesand they're all going in
(35:22):
different directions,particularly with health-wise
and and you know, even inbusiness and and all that kind
of stuff, it's like, well, youbecome the average of whatever
is in there.
And therefore, it's like not avery good trajectory.
Whereas when you're around abunch of people who, you know,
they do invest time in theirhealth, they do prioritize their
health, they're like prprioritizing their health over,
you know, late nights out, orprioritizing business over
(35:45):
whatever else.
It's it's like when you can whenyou're well, they say you are
the average of five people youhang around.
When those five people aresuccessful and healthy, you
become successful and you becomehealthy.
Like it's it's it's extremely,extremely like a lot of people
don't realize the impact thisactually has.
Definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (36:04):
It's that it's that compound effect.
Like if you're being Yeah,what's your focus on grows?
And if, as you said, the bloke'slike I've never had more I've
learned more about all domainsfrom great marriages to how to
build wealth because of thepeople that I'm surrounded by
surrounded by because they'reyou know building wealth through
property, they're buildingwealth through X, Y, and Z, and
(36:25):
I'm just getting to like go fora beer or go for a training
session with them and hear whatthey're doing, and I'm like,
interesting, like that's aninteresting perspective on that.
And then sometimes they offeryou to do things in in that
field that you wouldn't havenormally got, and it helps you
break into a different area, andit's no different to having
mates who call you out for poorbehavior in your marriage or
poor conversations or negativeself-talk or you know, notice
(36:48):
that you've been fucking lazyfor the last month that you
haven't been at the gym, andthey're like, come on, mate,
let's let's go.
And that just you know helps youprogress at a much faster rate.
And that's why it's so importantto audit your relationships.
You must reflect upon the valuethat the people that you're
surrounding yourself with arebringing to your life, and also
you know, how you want to be asa mate as well, making sure that
(37:09):
you're uplifting, you'rechallenging people, and you're
making their world better.
100%.
SPEAKER_00 (37:15):
And what like talking more on like like
statistics side of things, youmentioned that what was it, one
in three men experienceloneliness.
So what I shared in the talk wasthere's this thing called the
wartime mental health paradox.
And so you'd think duringwartime, and this is not just
like World War I or World WarII, but every time there is a
war, the country that isaffected, their rates of
(37:40):
depression, anxiety, self-harm,suicide, all those kinds of
things plummet drastically.
Not because they're not beingmeasured, but because when it's
a matter of survival, it's likewe we default back to working as
a community.
We're working with one solidpurpose.
And so obviously I'm I'm notencouraging war, but it's like
(38:03):
to learn from that, which is thestructure and the shared
purpose, and that that you know,the the camaraderie, the
brotherhood, all you know,almost focusing on on like
staying alive and and andworking together to stay alive.
And that's that's literally howhumans have evolved to be.
So that it does it's it's ano-brainer why that has such a
(38:23):
significant impact on our on ourmental health.
SPEAKER_01 (38:26):
It's it sounds when you say it like that, it sounds
really simple to make sense of.
Obviously, the implementation ofthat is where it gets difficult,
but if people can slow downenough to see like where where
is that in mind, where am I whatwhat's the common goal with the
people that I'm surroundingmyself with?
How can they pick me up when I'mfalling down and vice versa?
(38:47):
Like, so it's why men lovesports, like and people in
general really gravitate tosports because there is a common
goal.
It's like it doesn't matterwhether you're on the pitch or
you're part of theadministration team or you're
sweeping the sheds, you're allwanting to see the team do well.
And your role is just as crucialas you know delivering it
towards that.
SPEAKER_00 (39:05):
100%.
And and I mean, this is theimportance of of any kind of
community, whether it's you'reyou know, whether you do run a
business and you have employeesor it's your family or it's
anything, you've it to haveshared goals is probably like
the most powerful aspect, butthen also to practice on that.
If if you had a team but younever the team never met up or
the team never played or theteam never trained, you don't
(39:28):
have a team.
So there was another kind ofstatistic to look at, and that
was through like well, it kindof explained why one of the
reasons why mental health haslike worsened over the years,
and that they it correlatesquite well with the decline in
religion as well.
So as religion has declined, thethe studies across so the
(39:49):
consensus across individualsthat are religious and practice,
so it's not just whether they'rereligious or not, it's whether
they are religious and practice.
So whether they go to whetherit's a church or a mosque or
whatever it is, whateverreligion they're a part of, if
they go to that community andthey're a part of that community
and they're practicing in thatcommunity, their aspects of
(40:11):
their rates of loneliness werelike ten times lower than those,
even if they were religious, butdidn't practice.
So that shows you once againthat that structure and the
community and a little bit moreof the purpose and that kind of
stuff as well, because obviouslyreligion shares one you know
common teaching.
SPEAKER_01 (40:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:29):
So that was one of the other components.
SPEAKER_01 (40:31):
Highly powerful.
That and I I when I moved toAmerica, obviously religion is
in your face a lot over there,and I also have noticed a lot of
people that I have been friendswith and or still am friends
with and or f follow on socialmedia were turning to religion,
and I was really interested inwhy that was happening, and then
I stumbled across a podcast, andone of the things that the
(40:53):
gentleman said was exactly whatyou just shared there, and I was
like, Yes, they may not agreewith all of the things in
religion, but it's giving themsome black and white values to
to follow as a greater meaning,and it gives them a community to
be part of that's bigger thanthemselves.
And I you know thought aboutthat and I was like, that makes
sense because a lot of peopleare lacking that in their life.
So if that's something thatticks a few boxes, amazing.
(41:15):
Like it's only going to makethem better people.
SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
And I guess that's another component that like it
doesn't have to be a religion,it just it's amplifying the
aspects of like face-to-faceinteraction, and even if it's
just like this on a call, likeit this is more effective than a
phone call, which is just avoice, or that's more effective
than just a text message.
SPEAKER_01 (41:35):
Yep.
unknown (41:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (41:37):
What about a video message?
I mean, that's there's it's onlyone way though.
SPEAKER_01 (41:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
But it's it's the sharing of of emotion, it's the
sharing of of you know, becausewe communicate through text but
through language, but we alsocommunic communicate through
nonverbal communication.
So, you know, if I was just likeslumped in like this and like
not really paying attention, youwouldn't really be interacting
anywhere near as much.
No, you'd be like talking to abrick wall.
(42:02):
But this kind of bit ofspaghetti.
Yeah, that's it.
And so that's where like I mean,you had it in the Man That Can
project, and it's something thatI've implemented in Project Up,
is is like a weekly call wherewe all just get together and we
just chat like about our goalsand about where we're at, and
then you know that at leastbuilds some kind of like just a
(42:25):
like even if it's somethingsmall like that, you feel like
you belong, you feel like you'rea part of something, and you are
also held accountable by therest of the people in the group.
100%.
SPEAKER_01 (42:34):
But Jay Boy, this time's flown, made and obviously
we can talk about so much more.
It's been incredible.
I'm genuinely proud of the workthat you're doing.
For those who want to get intouch with you and find out more
about what you're doing and Iguess keep up with your content,
etc., where should people go?
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
Thanks, man.
I really appreciate that.
That's uh it means a lot to meas well.
But where to find me atjesse.healthcoach on Instagram,
and that's probably where I'mmost active.
But you can find me on LinkedInand Facebook and all that kind
of stuff as well, JesseO'Sullivan.
But yeah, I'll I've got somehuge plans for Project Up and
yeah, it's starting to all takeplace, which is really cool.
It's on the up.
SPEAKER_01 (43:13):
It's on the up.
I'll link all of that below.
But mate, thank you for yourtime and have an amazing
weekend.
Legend.
Thank you so much, mate.
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