January 7, 2025 • 43 mins
Join us in this insightful episode of the Manhood Tribe Show as we wrap up our 'The Way of the King' series with a special interview featuring Mike Van Pelt, a seasoned men's coach at True Man Life Coaching.
Mike shares his journey and insights on developing a masculine faith and living as a 'true man' in alignment with Jesus Christ.
We also dive into his book 'True Man, True Ways: A Roadmap of Discovery to the Masculine Heart,' discussing practical steps for men to cultivate authentic faith and deeper relationships.
You can find out more about Mike and his book at truemanlifecoaching.com.
Tune in for a powerful conversation on manhood, faith, and personal growth!
00:00 Welcome to the Manhood Tribe Show
00:53 Introducing Mike Van Pelt
02:06 The Journey to True Man Life Coaching
05:54 Challenges and Insights in Men's Ministry
09:36 The Importance of Men's Groups
15:48 Writing True Man, True Ways
25:01 The Roadmap to the Masculine Heart
41:45 Final Thoughts and Where to Find More
💪 Want to know how you measure up as a man? Take our free quiz, called How Manly Are You? and learn how you can get better at being a man. Download for free at manhoodtribes.com/manly. 💪
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:18):
Guys, welcome to the manhoodtribe show.
My name is Don.
I'm your host.
It's so good to be with you nowhere at the beginning of the
year.
And while it's the beginning ofthe year, we actually have just
wrapped up a series here on themanhood tribe show called the
way of the king.
Where we were really talkingabout.
What does it look like todevelop a masculine faith?
(00:40):
How did those of us who chooseto follow Jesus, do that in a
way that still feels like beinga man.
So, if you haven't listened tothat series, I would encourage
you to go back and check outsome of those episodes.
But today we're going to kind ofput a bow on those things.
By finishing up with aninterview from Mike van pelt.
Mike is a speaker, an author,and a men's coach at true man
(01:02):
life coaching.
And he has worked with men'sgroups and men in various
settings for most of his lifeand professional career, but
he's also written a book calledtrue man, true ways.
A roadmap of discovery to themasculine heart that I think is
going to be a big help to youguys, as you think about
starting the new year and someways to kind of reflect on how
(01:23):
to develop a masculine faith.
So with that being said, let'sjump into my interview with Mike
van pelt.
Don (01:32):
All right.
Mike van Pelt.
Welcome to the show, man.
Glad to have you here.
Mike Van Pelt (01:35):
Don, thanks for having me.
I'm excited to chat with youtoday.
Don (01:38):
Yeah.
I think this is going to be areally good conversation.
So, uh, the folks who've beenfollowing the manhood tribe
show, uh, know that for the pastseveral episodes, we have kind
of been diving into just what itlooks like to have a masculine
faith, you know, as a man, whatit really looks like to follow
Jesus.
Um, but also just to develop it.
Yeah.
As a man, you know, how do thosetwo things really work in
(02:00):
tandem?
And I'm excited about having youon the show today.
Cause I know that's a, that's areal passion of well.
Um, you have started up true manlife coaching.
So why don't you just tell us alittle bit about like what that
is as a style of coaching andkind of how you got into it.
Mike Van Pelt (02:16):
Well, true man, life coaching, the whole true
man piece of it, that, thatpiece that's, uh, Jesus Christ
walk on earth as a true man.
Now that really began as a men'ssmall group.
We wanted to, uh, I don't know,uh, name our group.
We didn't feel like another ironsharpens iron needed to be out
there.
We were looking for somethingunique identifier.
(02:39):
And so we went with true manprimarily because we felt like
Jesus was the ultimate rolemodel.
And being the true man i reallyidentified that and so the this
whole concept really began inmen small group and.
You know anybody that's everbeen involved in a leader in men
(03:01):
small group knows that.
You're essentially doing it,whether you realize it or not.
You're really doing men'scoaching is precisely what's
going on.
So I had been involved in reallyin this men's, uh, arena for,
for quite some time.
But what I noticed, uh, when Itried to go out and become an
entrepreneur was I originallywas doing some business
(03:23):
consulting.
And although what I had was adoing resonated with me, it
didn't resonate with me in thesame way that.
You know, going to my men'sgroup did, or, you know, having
the, these deep conversationsand what I came to realize was,
is that there are a lot ofpeople that do business
(03:45):
consulting and they can put ingreat programs and all these
different things.
But if, if, if you didn't showup, uh, and didn't want, you
didn't have a passion, youdidn't have a vision, you didn't
have purpose in your life.
It didn't matter what the systemwas.
And, uh, and in so many ways,what I was seeing was what I was
(04:08):
going through was.
You know, my heart and mind hadto be right in order for me to
show up in my business anyway.
And so I began thinking aboutafter a weekend men's retreat
that really changed my life islike, where do these men go for
that?
You know?
And, and that's really wherethe, the journey began for me to
(04:33):
try to figure out how to build Aplace where, where men could go
and really work through thisessentially chaotic world that's
going on.
And so that was really thebirth, uh, back in 2019, uh,
(04:56):
after a men's retreat, that'sreally where a lot of these
ideas began to be.
Birth and the podcast began andhow can we go help men?
How can we go fight for thehearts of men really, really
began to take mold.
So that, that's, that's reallyhow it began.
Don (05:13):
No, that's awesome, man.
I love hearing that story.
Uh, I think, You and I probablyshare a lot of commonality in
that regard in terms of justour, our passion for, um,
reaching and connecting men.
Um, but you know, also one ofthe things I'd love to ask you,
just kind of hearing some ofthat is, uh, has it, has it been
your experience?
I probably know the answer tothis question even as I ask it,
(05:35):
but has it been your experiencethat that kind of thing that
you're talking about available?
In the church and guys justweren't taking advantage of it
or it just wasn't there.
And like, like what's yourexperience and why do you case?
Mike Van Pelt (05:54):
You know, Don, this is such an interesting
question.
So my wife and I, um, uh, Well,after we first got married a
year after we got married, mywife took a job in Houston,
Texas, and we lived there fornine years and we had no family
or friends.
And, and, uh, and so it was agreat, personally, I think it
(06:16):
was a great way to start amarriage because we were
dependent on each other.
But ultimately our, our kidswere born in the Houston area
and we kind of looked at eachother and all of a sudden, you
know, Being far away from familydidn't seem like such a
practical idea.
So we, we, um, we God reallyplaced us in this position.
(06:37):
We, we moved to, my wife took ajob in Spartanburg, South
Carolina.
And, um, the reason that'simportant is we were 45 minutes
away from her And, you know, sothe first thing we did Uh, one
of the first things we did andit's kind of funny, I guess
we're an anomaly.
We showed up at a Uh church, Igrew up in the lutheran church
(06:57):
and we'd spent Uh got married ina lutheran church, and so we
went down to a lutheran churchand just walked in and said hey,
we're here and um We joined thechurch and what the pastor found
interesting at the time was theywere really trying to build up a
contemporary service And I toldhim well, you know Gosh, in
Houston, we'd gone to some verylarge churches and that had
(07:20):
contemporary services and hereally wanted to pick my brain.
And so, um, as you know, whenyou're involved in a church and
you say, yes, there's a, theyjust keep asking you.
And what's interesting is one ofthe things I noticed about that
church was that they had a men'sgroup.
But right, it was the oldermen's group.
So weren't a lot of young guysthere.
(07:42):
And I said to the pastor, I madethe mistake, right.
Of, of, uh, offering himsomething.
I said, um, and it did turn outwell, I said, Hey, is there a
young men's group?
And he's like, no, as a matterof fact, there's not, would you
like to head that up?
And so we started that.
And that was what's interestingabout that was, you know, we, I
(08:03):
had no idea what I, this is longbefore the whole true man thing
even began.
And I had no, Experiencestarting a men's group.
I didn't know what I was doing.
And I, I said to the pastor,what do you recommend?
And he gave us a book and wekind of started down that road.
And, uh, so that was really myforay into it.
(08:23):
And what's interesting is therewas a, uh, kind of a yin and
yang that went on in that group.
There were some guys that reallywanted it to be a true Bible
study, like Sunday school.
And then there was a group of usthat were like, no, um, And we,
you know, we want to do someother things.
And so we did pick a local, um,boys home charity and we did a
(08:45):
lot of stuff with them.
And that was awesome becausethose kids didn't have any man
in their life.
That's why they were at the boyshome really.
But you know, what I've seenwith churches is it really comes
down to.
In a lot of cases, how involveddoes a pastor want to be in
(09:06):
men's ministry?
How does he want to raise up menin the church?
And some pastors are, you know,we'll go that route and some
won't.
That's not a knock on pastors,by the way, they have an
incredibly noble job.
And so you'll see men'sministries across the board that
I believe come become Biblestudy sometimes.
(09:27):
And that.
is important.
You know, as we're recordingthis, I just came from my men's
group and we do a tremendousamount of study in the Bible.
However, my, a lot of the men'sgroups I've been a part of, we
really get into intimate subjectmatter and we talk about what's
going on in our lives and thenwe, you know, bring in scripture
(09:48):
that way.
And what I found is that Menwant crave and desire a safe
place to go talk about what'sgoing on in their life because
they don't get it any otherplace, you know, they just don't
get it any other place.
And the fact of the matter is,is that there are so many heavy
things in our lives, whetherit's our marriage, our children,
(10:11):
our relationships, our jobs.
And it's like, where do you goto talk about that?
And when I say talk about it,I'm not referring to it.
As a gripe session, that's notwhat it is.
It's just a place to.
You know, all of these thingsare so weighty, they're so
weighty in our world and, youknow, we'll walk around and
(10:33):
we'll carry that weight around.
But what do you do with it?
What do you really do with it ifyou want to have a life of
freedom and more?
And a lot of times you're goingto have to work through that.
And I think what these groupsprovide is a safe place.
To do it.
And so the, the success I've hadwith men's groups has actually
(10:54):
come outside of the churchwalls.
And I think part of that is, youknow, we don't have to, um,
report into anybody.
Is it a Bible study?
Is it a Sunday school thing?
We just have the freedom tomaneuver around and go much
deeper into these topical areas.
(11:16):
And the beautiful part about it,I will say is, you know, The
Holy Spirit is in the middle ofall of it, whether we're at
church or not, and scripturetells us that, you know, we're
two or more gather, you know,and so, you know, a Bible
doesn't need to be present forthe Holy Spirit to be there.
(11:37):
The Bible doesn't need to bepresent for us to talk about.
Christ, it's an important aspectof it, but there are a lot of
topics that I found that menWant to talk about and and
that's why I think men smallgroups are so critically
important.
Don (11:54):
that's great.
I hear what you're saying.
And I think this is, um, Yeah,without going too far off topic,
I think this is a pretty bigjust kind of challenge to men's
ministries and general is, isthe reality of what you're
saying of like the Holy, theHoly Spirit is present, even
when the Bible is not, you know,and that doesn't mean that like
we're, we're going.
(12:16):
Outside of what biblicalChristianity means if we're not
doing a direct Bible study.
Um, but you're right.
That guys need an opportunity tobe able to dissect their lives
in companionship with other menand the Holy spirit.
And sometimes you need scriptureto do that.
And sometimes you don't, andthat that can be okay.
Right.
okay to do it both ways.
Mike Van Pelt (12:37):
Yeah Yeah,
Don (12:39):
really afraid of kind of giving permission to that second
category.
Um, and, but I think in, in, inthat, Out of that fear, uh,
we're missing out on somethings, you know?
Mike Van Pelt (12:49):
well Yeah, and I think it's I think it's this
opportunity what it affords isto to go out into deeper waters
Man, we're not going to, we'renot going to sit in the waiting
pool today.
We're going to have a discussionabout marriage and, and what it
means for our lives.
And we're going to go out intosome deep water.
And if you want to participate,you can participate.
(13:11):
If you just want to listen, youcan listen.
And, um, you know, the, thereality is there are a lot of
topics that I found that havetouched our lives.
Not the least of which is whenwe grow up.
And by the time we're adults andwe're in.
You know, find ourselves sittingin a church piece someplace.
We've gone through some stuffand a lot of that stuff
(13:32):
resonates from our childhoodthat we've never dealt with.
Some of it is some really ugly,nasty stuff.
And, um, so how do you deal withthat?
And the reality is everybody inthe church is broken one way or
another.
We're all looking for healing.
How we, how are we going toreceive that?
(13:54):
And you know, what helped me wasI was a Christian.
I've been a Christian all mylife.
Wasn't really an option in myhouse, you know, grew up in the
Lutheran church, baptized when Iwas a baby, you know, a few days
old.
And, but what I didn'tunderstand, and I think this is
really, really important.
(14:14):
And this is where the men'sretreat that really changed my
life comes into play was.
Intimacy with Christ.
So you can go to church yourentire life and not be intimate
with Christ.
And I think this is really,really important because what I
found was God was really callingme into that personal
relationship that I did not knowwas available.
(14:36):
And I, you know, I found that alot of people, you know, have
found that to be.
True as well.
And the minute I realized thatit was available and God wanted
me to show up as his beloved sonand be his beloved son and call
him father.
It was like, man, it was likethe weight of the world lifted
(14:57):
off me.
And I can tell you over the lastfive and a half years since I
really, um, had thatconversation with Christ, my
world has changed.
I'm not saying I'm perfect.
I'm not saying I've arrived.
I'm a work in progress.
We always are underconstruction.
But what I'm saying is, is thatI know who's I am.
(15:21):
I know who's really in controlof this deal.
And it ain't me.
And I think the sooner that guysBegin to know that and have
that, um, epiphany in theirlives.
However, they get there.
Um, I, I think the better offthey're going to be.
And I think one great way tolearn that again is through
(15:43):
being around other men, youknow?
Don (15:46):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Okay.
So in addition to, uh, your trueman life coaching that you do,
you also have a book that youhave written that is coming out
I believe called true man, trueways, a roadmap of discovery to
the masculine heart.
So.
before we kind of pick apart thebook just a little bit, you
know, you, you've got thisphrase true man, uh, and your
(16:08):
life coaching and your booktitle.
us, you know, I, I'm, you'veprobably unpacked it a little
bit already, but you know, in a,in a nutshell, like, what does
that mean in your, uh, in yourview to be a true man?
Mike Van Pelt (16:20):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
Uh, so true man, right out ofthe Bible is Jesus Christ walk
on earth as a, as a true man.
Why is that important?
Well, he's the ultimate rolemodel.
He's the ultimate role model.
Can we be like Jesus?
Well, we can aspire to be likeJesus, but he lived a sinless
life.
So that's rather difficult todo.
(16:40):
Um, however, he provides us, uh,all the role modeling that that
exist.
And so I did.
What I've come to understand wasoriginally people would ask me,
they're like, well, how do youdefine true man?
And I realized that how I defineit wasn't as important as how
(17:04):
you define it or how somebodyelse defines it.
I can give you virtues.
I can give you things.
Um, yeah.
You know, I, a lot of times Ilook back at the fruit of the
spirit and I'm like, well, ifyou have all these things, you
probably a true man, right?
But the reality is, and here'swhat I, I do love, and this is
(17:25):
about as far as I take it.
And then I allow everybody elseto define it for themselves.
If you're familiar with theseries, the chosen, which I
absolutely love.
And this just totally sticks outin my mind.
We've all read the red in theBible.
You know about, you know, um,Jesus showing up on the
shoreline and Peter and them arefishing and he says, you know,
throw the net, cast the net outon the right side of the boat
(17:47):
and all the fish show up.
Right.
But if you've ever seen theshow, the chosen number one, the
guy that plays Jesus is amazing.
I strongly recommend watchingthe show.
The chosen, but that series isso incredible.
The guy that plays Jesus is soincredible.
And there's that moment where.
You know, they're out fishingand, and, and Jesus says, you
know, casting it out in theright side and they're just
(18:08):
blown away that all these fishare jumping on their boat.
And the way he said, follow me,follow me.
And we've read this dozens oftimes.
And really, to me, really, tome, that summarizes what a true
man is and needs to do.
Just follow Jesus.
If you follow that, you have anopportunity to be a true man.
(18:32):
But ultimately I lay out.
And in the book I tried to dothis.
Hey, what worked for me?
What what are some things that Iput in place?
You know, whether it was goalsetting or or developing a
purpose and a vision and andbeing authentic and real Um and
working on my leadership all ofthose things were like
(18:53):
attributes that You know we'rein the bucket that help me
develop what i consider to be mytrue man definition but i when i
lay all this out i'm laying itout and say hey.
You decide what a true man isfor you.
And I think that's important, animportant aspect of coaching as
(19:16):
a whole because I've heard othercoaches say and it's just like
makes me grip my teeth when Ihear it You know, I fix people
or I fix fix you use this termfix.
I fix absolutely nobody.
I can't It's that the onlyperson that can fix anybody is
(19:37):
you i can help you ask you knowi what i do ask the questions
listen and ask the questions andthen you develop you and i think
that that's what makes i thinkthat's what makes good coaches i
think that's what makes goodleaders i think that's what
makes good parents and i don'tthink we have enough listening
(19:59):
going on in our culture.
Feels like there's a lot moreshouting and fixing, trying to
fix things going on than thereis listening to what people
want.
And so, um, you know, that's soI, the whole idea of true, man,
I kind of let people.
Determine that for, forthemselves.
(20:20):
And it's a lot of fun to seethem define it for themselves.
Don (20:25):
Yeah, that's really good.
I love what you're saying about,uh, about listening.
One of the things that, uh, thatwe do within the context of
manhood tribes, we put a prettybig emphasis on listening, both
on listening to each other andlistening to the voice of God.
Mike Van Pelt (20:40):
Yeah.
Don (20:41):
But, you know, we, we try to say explicitly, uh, are
pretty terrible at givingadvice, you know, when it, to
giving advice, like we love todo it, you know, men are quick
to jump in an easy fix, rarelydo those.
of advice actually lead to reallife transformation.
(21:03):
You know, my kind of way ofthinking about it is like if a
man knew how to solve hisproblems, he would have done it
already.
You know, he doesn't need yourquick fix solution to try to
attempt it.
You know, it just, it justdoesn't work, especially when it
comes to the the bigger anddeeper areas of our lives.
And so I love what you're sayingabout, uh, we, we, we have to be
We've got to really put theemphasis on listening.
(21:24):
We need to listen well to oneanother.
We need to listen to the voiceof God and figure out how to
move forward in those things,you know, not in just our quick
fixes.
So, uh, yeah, that's great.
That's, uh, that's fantastic.
So, okay.
So kind of with that in mind,then like what prompted you to
want to write the book, like.
Moving from coaching to bookwriting, like, you know, there's
(21:45):
a lot of people who do that, butyou know what, in particular,
if, if your model, you know, ofcoaching is focused on
listening, you know, writing abook is not about listening.
Um, so like what prompted you towant to be able to share what
you have to say kind of in thatformat?
How do you think that
Mike Van Pelt (22:00):
No, I guess, I guess I'm crazy.
That's, that's the, yeah.
You know, it's interesting.
Um, as I began my coachingexperience, uh, we, As a family
had, um, uh, a move in store forus during COVID.
My wife's position waseliminated with the company she
was with.
(22:20):
And we had to move and we're nowjust outside of Atlanta,
Georgia.
And, um, when we moved here,that's when the big transition
occurred for me.
And the funny thing of it was,is that was just after COVID.
And I went through this wholeprocess of, should I go out and
network in person or should I beonline?
And.
Oddly enough, I was outnetworking person and this one
(22:43):
guy goes, um, Hey, have youfound such and such a group
online for networking?
And I'm like, no, and but onething led to another because I
met people in that originalnetworking group.
And the next thing you know, youknow, I'm off down a different
path.
And it was through thatnetworking.
I met a guy that was doing someself publishing and, um, this
(23:07):
particular Person just, um,really inspired me and made me
feel like, well, it was possiblefor me to write a book.
And the reason that I, I thinkthat I even thought it was
possible was, you know, I'dalready ventured down this path
of podcasting.
(23:28):
And what was interesting was thepodcast really happened by.
And what I found with thepodcasting was that I was
gaining a tremendous amount ofconfidence.
I didn't know was available.
And in all of that, I found thatGod had given me a gift that I
didn't know was available.
(23:49):
And as a result of that, it mademe go when somebody said, Hey, I
love what you're doing.
We should do a book around this.
And I'm like, yeah, we should doa book around this.
And so the, the, the seed was,was planted and, uh, I did go
down that path.
Now, the funny thing, well, itwasn't funny at the time.
(24:12):
Um, the original manuscript thatI Had written I had placed on an
external hard drive along withall of my old podcast stuff and
the hard drive, well, it died.
And, um, it was, um, there weretwo or three really difficult
(24:35):
days in there.
Like what now, what do I do?
Don (24:38):
bet, man.
Wow.
Mike Van Pelt (24:40):
Fortunately i had saved a couple of chapters and
so i was able to go back andkind of recreate the wheel so to
speak but i had to but iessentially had to start from
scratch but the purpose ofwriting the book was i wanted to
talk about the true man storyand how it started.
(25:01):
And, you know, so, you know, wecall the book true man, true
ways, the ways are laid out inthe chapters of the book.
And I say a roadmap of discoveryto the masculine heart.
And here's where the roadmapidea came from.
So, uh, I give all credit to mybuddy, Paul Bailey, back in
Spartanburg, South Carolina,because when we started, Uh,
(25:23):
when we met, we started our trueman group and Paul and I, um, we
quickly realized that we had alot in common.
And so it wasn't uncommon forhim to send me a text or me to
send him a text and said, let'sgo grab coffee.
Now for a lot of people going tograb coffee means we are going
(25:46):
to go down to the cornerStarbucks and grab a cup of
coffee for Paul and I, what thatmeant was, We're going to hop in
the car.
We lived 18 miles from the NorthCarolina border.
Um, which as we record this, Ijust want to say blessings to
all of those people in theupstate of South Carolina and
Western North Carolina prayingfor you.
(26:08):
I'm very familiar with a lot ofthose roads and places I'm
seeing on the news and it breaksmy heart, but Paul and I would
take about an 18 mile drive upto a wonderful little coffee
stop coffee shop in Columbus,Columbus, South North Carolina.
Ironically called open roadcoffee, um, which is the epic
name for a road trip.
(26:28):
And so our, we would take theseroad trips to go get coffee and
the road trips weren't about thecoffee.
The road trips were about doinglife and it was about the
conversation.
The coffee was great by the way,but it was about building those
relationships.
And, and really it was a way ofus penciling in time margin.
(26:52):
I like to refer to it where wejust talked about life.
And so the whole idea of theroadmap became, and I kind of
make a lot of comments aboutcars and taking road trips and
stuff like that.
Um, That's that that's where thebook title really came from and
and because my thoughts wereokay life is about doing the
(27:19):
right things that you need to dowhether it's you know having.
Setting goals and creating goalsand having a vision and a
purpose in those types of thingsbut the one thing that i think
we do a really not a great jobof his building relationships.
And so, you know, that was thewhole idea of the road trips
(27:41):
and, you know, was buildingthose relationships.
And I think that these arethings that as men, we need to
talk about in our lives.
You know, many of us were, um,we've had to figure out
relationships on the fly, youknow, and so part, you know,
that was part of the buildingout.
The book was, um.
(28:02):
You know, Hey, what did I learnfrom everything that I've gone
through at this point in mylife?
Because like many men, I spent alot of time going, why in the
heck is this happening to me?
You know and sometimes justreally being upset with god that
that was going on in my life atthat point And um, i'm now at a
point where I realize oh my goshThe good lord's been laying out
(28:26):
some steps for me that I didn'trealize were there And i'm just
at a point in my life where i'mbeginning to think more about my
legacy And less about the crapthat I did when I was young and
stupid And I wanted to I wantedto lay that out and say hey,
here's here's how true man gotstarted And here's some
(28:50):
fundamentally basic things Ihate to say it that way but that
you can do to take action onyourself And I think one of the
more important things that I doIn the book is I just don't
write about You know goals orvision or purpose I check in
with scripture in the bible andI say here's what the bible says
(29:12):
about it Not in a preachy way,but I want people to know that
when we're talking about, youknow financial your financial um
empowerment And your physicalvitality that this stuff is
rooted in scripture You know,your body is your temple.
(29:34):
Um, you know, and so, you know,I think they're important.
Everything I do, I try to checkin with scripture and go, Hey,
what does the Bible say aboutthis?
What does Jesus say about this?
What is God saying about this?
And that's my way of going.
Okay, here's, here's my answer.
And here's why this isimportant.
Don (29:53):
Very cool.
Uh, do you have a, like afavorite chapter in the book?
Mike Van Pelt (29:59):
Well, I always.
Don (30:02):
I know that's
Mike Van Pelt (30:02):
Yeah
Don (30:02):
to pick, but.
Mike Van Pelt (30:05):
I always love telling the the True man story,
which I actually get to uh inchapter three.
I don't start with it Ioriginally did and then I I
decided to go a differentdirection And I love I love
Talking about that because itwas when paul and I you know How
(30:26):
paul and I first met how westarted the men's small group
and then you know what cameabout As As a part of that and
and it So much of it you and Iwould not be talking on this
podcast today had paul and I notUm, and i'll say had the guts to
do a one on one after we met ata networking meeting and sat
(30:48):
down at a pizza shop And talkabout life together, you know,
and so It's not lost on me that.
Um god's plans are Far more Thanwe could ever ever dream about
and you know how far I've comefrom that meeting in the pizza
(31:12):
shop to a guy that hadcompletely lost his identity um
and Didn't know intimacy withchrist and you know was commonly
um at that point, you know,probably Wearing a mask, posing,
trying to be something I reallywasn't to everybody, um, because
(31:36):
I thought that's what everybodywanted to see.
And, you know, now, um, youknow, I, I appreciate the, I
have a love, I couldn't tell youmy story back then.
Don i couldn't i couldn't tellit i didn't know what i did and
in fact i didn't want people toknow my story in some respects
(31:59):
um you know because of somecareer things i gone through i
lost my identity there's acouple of things that you know
when you meet somebody you asktheir name and then what do you
do.
And the minute you tell what youdo then as human beings we start
assessing all kinds of things.
(32:21):
Oh, he's a doctor.
He must have a big house, bigcar.
Oh, this guy does this.
He probably has an F 1 50.
And, you know, we start makingall these assessments.
And the thing of it is, is I wasmaking a lot.
Of assessments on what howpeople thought of me because at
one point i wasn't working i wasgoing back to college i was a
(32:41):
stay at home dad and and therewas a piece of me that was like
i'm supposed to be thebreadwinner here i'm supposed to
be the man of the house and iwasn't that and i couldn't even
i remember going to an eventwith my wife and somebody coming
up to me and said well so whatdo you do.
And I couldn't even say anythingdone.
I, I couldn't even say anything.
(33:02):
And my wife had to step in andthat was really prior to me
getting involved more in, in, insome of my men's groups.
But I was, um, I was really, uh,I don't want to say humiliated.
I was really filled with, uh,Shame that I couldn't say to
somebody, Oh, I'm the CEO of da,da, da, da, da, da, da, da,
(33:26):
because that's the image that Ihad of myself and, um, it took,
took me a while to do the workto remove the fact that nobody
cares anybody, what I do.
I
Don (33:40):
Right.
It's a
Mike Van Pelt (33:41):
they care, but they care, but I needed to care
less about what they werethinking about me.
Don (33:47):
Right.
Yeah.
It's not really about identityto them, even if it is or feels
like it is to you.
And yeah, that's, that'simportant.
So, okay.
In the book, you, you cover alot of topics that are, you
know, some, as you, as youmentioned, that are kind of, uh,
like The standard aspects of dayto day, you know, a man's life,
(34:10):
uh, just walking throughphysical vitality, dealing with
finances, you know, just some ofthose kinds of things, but then
you also get into, as you'vementioned, just some of the
deeper aspects of what, what aman's life and his heart really
looks like finding purpose,leaving legacy, those kinds of
things.
And, and I want to just kind ofask you a little bit more about
this issue of the heart, becauseI think this is where.
(34:32):
Most
Mike Van Pelt (34:33):
yeah, so
Don (34:34):
a little challenged.
Why would you say that men needto try to go after and recover
their heart and not just focusedon the behavioral or external
things that the world tried to,to kind of get us to focus on as
men.
Mike Van Pelt (34:49):
many things that happen in a man's life and they
happen at an early age.
And, um, uh, you know, a coupleof examples would be, uh, being
introduced to pornography, um,and or, um, uh, unfortunately
being, uh, uh, abused at a youngage.
(35:11):
And I, I'm always.
amazed at the number of men thatI talked to that have had one or
both of these things happen intheir lives.
And I'm using both of thosebecause it, I hear this
conversation so commonly,particularly pornography.
Um, and what happens whenyou're, uh, Touched by
(35:31):
pornography at a young age andit amazes me how many times I
hear somebody say I first sawpornography when I was seven,
eight, nine years old.
It's as if the devil himself hasearmarked a certain age bracket
because he knows that, you know,um, You know, we, we don't have
the capacity to understand whatwe're looking at, but we can
(35:53):
leave a traumatic mark.
Um, but what happens is whenyou're introduced to those
things at a young age is yourbrain goes down a rabbit hole
that, um, it probably doesn'tneed to be going down.
And if you didn't have a parentor somebody close to you that
was really able to, uh, Talkwith you or did talk with you
(36:14):
about, uh, how to treat theother sex or, you know, what sex
is really about.
You may have a dark picture ofit.
And why is the reason that'simportant is it shows up in our
adult life.
When the relationship reallymatters and, you know, and it
(36:36):
never leaves you.
And in fact, many of us willbury these negative things in
our life, hoping men are, we'rethe pros at this.
We have mastered the art ofburying our feelings or the junk
that has happened to us, hopingIt'll never show back up and it
(36:58):
always shows back up and itreally shows back up in our
relationships.
The people that were the closestto our, our spouse, our
children.
And so, you know, you look atthe divorce rate now and for
many years they used to say,well, the divorce rate is around
50 percent really hard to gaugeright now because covid the
(37:19):
divorce rate spiked.
Um as a result of covid and soyou see a lot of uh statistics
But the point here is that a lotof relationships end badly And,
uh, I, the first one torecognize, okay, sometimes you
didn't get the right partner,you know, or things really
(37:41):
didn't work out.
But a lot of times things don'twork out because there's work
that needs to be done in orderfor you to build a, you know,
more positive relationships inyour life.
And that's going to requiretaking a look in the mirror.
Now, how do we know this istrue?
Well, statistically, uh,remarriages.
(38:02):
Fell faster than the firstmarriage third marriages fell
faster yet.
And so statistically it justgets worse and and what that
proves is Is that you can't runinto another relationship
thinking?
Oh, it was the other personyou're gonna have to look in the
(38:23):
mirror and is that easy?
No, you know i've had to stareinto that mirror on many
Occasions, you know, and, um,you know, if relationships and
overcoming this brokenness,which is really what what's
going on with our hearts werebroken because of something or
(38:45):
some event.
And so that's going to requiresome healing.
Now, you may be able to get someof that healing on your own.
Most people, maybe they have togo to therapy.
Maybe it's going to requirecoaching, but it's, it really
requires an introspection of thebroken heart.
And I can look at a lot ofthings that happened to me when
(39:07):
I was young.
Um, I don't, you know, myparents were great people.
I don't blame, they gave me whatthey could.
Um, there were, you know, the,and there were other things that
happened when I was young thatjust, they didn't show up until
I was an adult.
I mean, I'm 54 and I just had anepiphany on something six months
ago, you know?
(39:28):
Um, and so, you know, it, it's alifelong thing, but I think the
most important aspect that wecan look at is ourselves first,
before we start pointing fingersat other people and going, well,
they're at fault.
Are they, are they maybe, but,but, what's your role?
(39:51):
In it, or as somebody said to mejust the other day and I went,
Oh, who was at the scene of thecrime?
Okay.
If this happened to you a coupleof times, who was at the scene
of the crime?
Uh, oh, you're right.
You caught me.
So, um, you know,
Don (40:09):
Yeah, it's it's Jesus was onto something when he was
saying, you know, take the logout of your own eye first before
you, you know, concede to pullthe speck out of your brother's
eye like it's, he kind of knew.
I mean, he, you know, he knew asinsightfully can, uh, that we
are bad at paying attention toour own issues and quick to find
fault in others.
And, uh, yeah, you're exactlyright.
I think that's fantastic.
Mike Van Pelt (40:30):
Yeah, I think that's what the book really um,
i'm not pointing the finger atanybody In fact nine times out
of the ten.
I call myself the guinea pig.
I'm like, hey Okay, I did thiswrong, but here's what's going
on now
Don (40:43):
from my
Mike Van Pelt (40:44):
Yeah, yeah, and uh, i'll give i'll give you a
little show.
I'll give you or as I like torefer to it in the book You
know, i'll give you a roadmap ofof discovery and and all those
things, um Critically important,but, um, we got to look at
ourselves first.
We have a society built on, um,pointing the finger at somebody
(41:08):
else and not takingresponsibility.
And we gotta, I didn't grow upthat way, right?
I mean, um, I didn't, I didn'tdo a very good job learning
about responsibility and it costme when I was an adult, but,
but, you know, we can't, wegotta stop playing victims in
the world.
We gotta stop playing victimsand we have to learn to take
(41:29):
responsibility first andforemost for ourselves and then
our families and, uh, and takeaction.
On what needs to be done inorder to improve those
relationships.
Don (41:44):
Absolutely.
Mike, this has been a really,really good conversation.
I've enjoyed just hearing moreabout you and about your work.
Uh, tell us more about wherepeople could go to find you
online and find your work.
Mike Van Pelt (41:56):
Sure.
Um, well you can always go to mywebsite, true man, life
coaching.
com.
You will find my, um, uh, a lotof information out there.
You can get a hold of mycalendar.
Um, Podcast is on there.
If you, uh, just go to true manpodcast.
com.
Uh, It'll take you right to thethe podcast and it'll allow you
(42:17):
to click on your favoritepodcast channel.
And um, You know, that's that'swhere i'm learning.
My best book discovery is comingfrom is the Is the podcast so if
you hear me talking about on thepodcast it may show up in a book
again somewhere but um, but thewebsite's definitely the best
the the books the Uh, availablefor pre sale on my website and,
(42:43):
uh, I'd love it if you'd checkit out.
I mean, it's, it's just, um, it,it, it's what I discovered
worked for me and I would liketo think it will work for you if
you make the decision to applyit.
Don (43:01):
Fantastic.
All right, Mike, thank you forjoining the show today.
It's been good to have you.
Mike Van Pelt (43:05):
Thanks Donna.
I appreciate it.
You having me on.
Guys, welcome to the manhoodtribe show.
My name is Don.
I'm your host.
It's so good to be with you nowhere at the beginning of the
year.
And while it's the beginning ofthe year, we actually have just
wrapped up a series here on themanhood tribe show called the
way of the king.
Where we were really talkingabout.
What does it look like todevelop a masculine faith?
(00:40):
How did those of us who chooseto follow Jesus, do that in a
way that still feels like beinga man.
So, if you haven't listened tothat series, I would encourage
you to go back and check outsome of those episodes.
But today we're going to kind ofput a bow on those things.
By finishing up with aninterview from Mike van pelt.
Mike is a speaker, an author,and a men's coach at true man
(01:02):
life coaching.
And he has worked with men'sgroups and men in various
settings for most of his lifeand professional career, but
he's also written a book calledtrue man, true ways.
A roadmap of discovery to themasculine heart that I think is
going to be a big help to youguys, as you think about
starting the new year and someways to kind of reflect on how
(01:23):
to develop a masculine faith.
So with that being said, let'sjump into my interview with Mike
van pelt.
Don (01:32):
All right.
Mike van Pelt.
Welcome to the show, man.
Glad to have you here.
Mike Van Pelt (01:35):
Don, thanks for having me.
I'm excited to chat with youtoday.
Don (01:38):
Yeah.
I think this is going to be areally good conversation.
So, uh, the folks who've beenfollowing the manhood tribe
show, uh, know that for the pastseveral episodes, we have kind
of been diving into just what itlooks like to have a masculine
faith, you know, as a man, whatit really looks like to follow
Jesus.
Um, but also just to develop it.
Yeah.
As a man, you know, how do thosetwo things really work in
(02:00):
tandem?
And I'm excited about having youon the show today.
Cause I know that's a, that's areal passion of well.
Um, you have started up true manlife coaching.
So why don't you just tell us alittle bit about like what that
is as a style of coaching andkind of how you got into it.
Mike Van Pelt (02:16):
Well, true man, life coaching, the whole true
man piece of it, that, thatpiece that's, uh, Jesus Christ
walk on earth as a true man.
Now that really began as a men'ssmall group.
We wanted to, uh, I don't know,uh, name our group.
We didn't feel like another ironsharpens iron needed to be out
there.
We were looking for somethingunique identifier.
(02:39):
And so we went with true manprimarily because we felt like
Jesus was the ultimate rolemodel.
And being the true man i reallyidentified that and so the this
whole concept really began inmen small group and.
You know anybody that's everbeen involved in a leader in men
(03:01):
small group knows that.
You're essentially doing it,whether you realize it or not.
You're really doing men'scoaching is precisely what's
going on.
So I had been involved in reallyin this men's, uh, arena for,
for quite some time.
But what I noticed, uh, when Itried to go out and become an
entrepreneur was I originallywas doing some business
(03:23):
consulting.
And although what I had was adoing resonated with me, it
didn't resonate with me in thesame way that.
You know, going to my men'sgroup did, or, you know, having
the, these deep conversationsand what I came to realize was,
is that there are a lot ofpeople that do business
(03:45):
consulting and they can put ingreat programs and all these
different things.
But if, if, if you didn't showup, uh, and didn't want, you
didn't have a passion, youdidn't have a vision, you didn't
have purpose in your life.
It didn't matter what the systemwas.
And, uh, and in so many ways,what I was seeing was what I was
(04:08):
going through was.
You know, my heart and mind hadto be right in order for me to
show up in my business anyway.
And so I began thinking aboutafter a weekend men's retreat
that really changed my life islike, where do these men go for
that?
You know?
And, and that's really wherethe, the journey began for me to
(04:33):
try to figure out how to build Aplace where, where men could go
and really work through thisessentially chaotic world that's
going on.
And so that was really thebirth, uh, back in 2019, uh,
(04:56):
after a men's retreat, that'sreally where a lot of these
ideas began to be.
Birth and the podcast began andhow can we go help men?
How can we go fight for thehearts of men really, really
began to take mold.
So that, that's, that's reallyhow it began.
Don (05:13):
No, that's awesome, man.
I love hearing that story.
Uh, I think, You and I probablyshare a lot of commonality in
that regard in terms of justour, our passion for, um,
reaching and connecting men.
Um, but you know, also one ofthe things I'd love to ask you,
just kind of hearing some ofthat is, uh, has it, has it been
your experience?
I probably know the answer tothis question even as I ask it,
(05:35):
but has it been your experiencethat that kind of thing that
you're talking about available?
In the church and guys justweren't taking advantage of it
or it just wasn't there.
And like, like what's yourexperience and why do you case?
Mike Van Pelt (05:54):
You know, Don, this is such an interesting
question.
So my wife and I, um, uh, Well,after we first got married a
year after we got married, mywife took a job in Houston,
Texas, and we lived there fornine years and we had no family
or friends.
And, and, uh, and so it was agreat, personally, I think it
(06:16):
was a great way to start amarriage because we were
dependent on each other.
But ultimately our, our kidswere born in the Houston area
and we kind of looked at eachother and all of a sudden, you
know, Being far away from familydidn't seem like such a
practical idea.
So we, we, um, we God reallyplaced us in this position.
(06:37):
We, we moved to, my wife took ajob in Spartanburg, South
Carolina.
And, um, the reason that'simportant is we were 45 minutes
away from her And, you know, sothe first thing we did Uh, one
of the first things we did andit's kind of funny, I guess
we're an anomaly.
We showed up at a Uh church, Igrew up in the lutheran church
(06:57):
and we'd spent Uh got married ina lutheran church, and so we
went down to a lutheran churchand just walked in and said hey,
we're here and um We joined thechurch and what the pastor found
interesting at the time was theywere really trying to build up a
contemporary service And I toldhim well, you know Gosh, in
Houston, we'd gone to some verylarge churches and that had
(07:20):
contemporary services and hereally wanted to pick my brain.
And so, um, as you know, whenyou're involved in a church and
you say, yes, there's a, theyjust keep asking you.
And what's interesting is one ofthe things I noticed about that
church was that they had a men'sgroup.
But right, it was the oldermen's group.
So weren't a lot of young guysthere.
(07:42):
And I said to the pastor, I madethe mistake, right.
Of, of, uh, offering himsomething.
I said, um, and it did turn outwell, I said, Hey, is there a
young men's group?
And he's like, no, as a matterof fact, there's not, would you
like to head that up?
And so we started that.
And that was what's interestingabout that was, you know, we, I
(08:03):
had no idea what I, this is longbefore the whole true man thing
even began.
And I had no, Experiencestarting a men's group.
I didn't know what I was doing.
And I, I said to the pastor,what do you recommend?
And he gave us a book and wekind of started down that road.
And, uh, so that was really myforay into it.
(08:23):
And what's interesting is therewas a, uh, kind of a yin and
yang that went on in that group.
There were some guys that reallywanted it to be a true Bible
study, like Sunday school.
And then there was a group of usthat were like, no, um, And we,
you know, we want to do someother things.
And so we did pick a local, um,boys home charity and we did a
(08:45):
lot of stuff with them.
And that was awesome becausethose kids didn't have any man
in their life.
That's why they were at the boyshome really.
But you know, what I've seenwith churches is it really comes
down to.
In a lot of cases, how involveddoes a pastor want to be in
(09:06):
men's ministry?
How does he want to raise up menin the church?
And some pastors are, you know,we'll go that route and some
won't.
That's not a knock on pastors,by the way, they have an
incredibly noble job.
And so you'll see men'sministries across the board that
I believe come become Biblestudy sometimes.
(09:27):
And that.
is important.
You know, as we're recordingthis, I just came from my men's
group and we do a tremendousamount of study in the Bible.
However, my, a lot of the men'sgroups I've been a part of, we
really get into intimate subjectmatter and we talk about what's
going on in our lives and thenwe, you know, bring in scripture
(09:48):
that way.
And what I found is that Menwant crave and desire a safe
place to go talk about what'sgoing on in their life because
they don't get it any otherplace, you know, they just don't
get it any other place.
And the fact of the matter is,is that there are so many heavy
things in our lives, whetherit's our marriage, our children,
(10:11):
our relationships, our jobs.
And it's like, where do you goto talk about that?
And when I say talk about it,I'm not referring to it.
As a gripe session, that's notwhat it is.
It's just a place to.
You know, all of these thingsare so weighty, they're so
weighty in our world and, youknow, we'll walk around and
(10:33):
we'll carry that weight around.
But what do you do with it?
What do you really do with it ifyou want to have a life of
freedom and more?
And a lot of times you're goingto have to work through that.
And I think what these groupsprovide is a safe place.
To do it.
And so the, the success I've hadwith men's groups has actually
(10:54):
come outside of the churchwalls.
And I think part of that is, youknow, we don't have to, um,
report into anybody.
Is it a Bible study?
Is it a Sunday school thing?
We just have the freedom tomaneuver around and go much
deeper into these topical areas.
(11:16):
And the beautiful part about it,I will say is, you know, The
Holy Spirit is in the middle ofall of it, whether we're at
church or not, and scripturetells us that, you know, we're
two or more gather, you know,and so, you know, a Bible
doesn't need to be present forthe Holy Spirit to be there.
(11:37):
The Bible doesn't need to bepresent for us to talk about.
Christ, it's an important aspectof it, but there are a lot of
topics that I found that menWant to talk about and and
that's why I think men smallgroups are so critically
important.
Don (11:54):
that's great.
I hear what you're saying.
And I think this is, um, Yeah,without going too far off topic,
I think this is a pretty bigjust kind of challenge to men's
ministries and general is, isthe reality of what you're
saying of like the Holy, theHoly Spirit is present, even
when the Bible is not, you know,and that doesn't mean that like
we're, we're going.
(12:16):
Outside of what biblicalChristianity means if we're not
doing a direct Bible study.
Um, but you're right.
That guys need an opportunity tobe able to dissect their lives
in companionship with other menand the Holy spirit.
And sometimes you need scriptureto do that.
And sometimes you don't, andthat that can be okay.
Right.
okay to do it both ways.
Mike Van Pelt (12:37):
Yeah Yeah,
Don (12:39):
really afraid of kind of giving permission to that second
category.
Um, and, but I think in, in, inthat, Out of that fear, uh,
we're missing out on somethings, you know?
Mike Van Pelt (12:49):
well Yeah, and I think it's I think it's this
opportunity what it affords isto to go out into deeper waters
Man, we're not going to, we'renot going to sit in the waiting
pool today.
We're going to have a discussionabout marriage and, and what it
means for our lives.
And we're going to go out intosome deep water.
And if you want to participate,you can participate.
(13:11):
If you just want to listen, youcan listen.
And, um, you know, the, thereality is there are a lot of
topics that I found that havetouched our lives.
Not the least of which is whenwe grow up.
And by the time we're adults andwe're in.
You know, find ourselves sittingin a church piece someplace.
We've gone through some stuffand a lot of that stuff
(13:32):
resonates from our childhoodthat we've never dealt with.
Some of it is some really ugly,nasty stuff.
And, um, so how do you deal withthat?
And the reality is everybody inthe church is broken one way or
another.
We're all looking for healing.
How we, how are we going toreceive that?
(13:54):
And you know, what helped me wasI was a Christian.
I've been a Christian all mylife.
Wasn't really an option in myhouse, you know, grew up in the
Lutheran church, baptized when Iwas a baby, you know, a few days
old.
And, but what I didn'tunderstand, and I think this is
really, really important.
(14:14):
And this is where the men'sretreat that really changed my
life comes into play was.
Intimacy with Christ.
So you can go to church yourentire life and not be intimate
with Christ.
And I think this is really,really important because what I
found was God was really callingme into that personal
relationship that I did not knowwas available.
(14:36):
And I, you know, I found that alot of people, you know, have
found that to be.
True as well.
And the minute I realized thatit was available and God wanted
me to show up as his beloved sonand be his beloved son and call
him father.
It was like, man, it was likethe weight of the world lifted
(14:57):
off me.
And I can tell you over the lastfive and a half years since I
really, um, had thatconversation with Christ, my
world has changed.
I'm not saying I'm perfect.
I'm not saying I've arrived.
I'm a work in progress.
We always are underconstruction.
But what I'm saying is, is thatI know who's I am.
(15:21):
I know who's really in controlof this deal.
And it ain't me.
And I think the sooner that guysBegin to know that and have
that, um, epiphany in theirlives.
However, they get there.
Um, I, I think the better offthey're going to be.
And I think one great way tolearn that again is through
(15:43):
being around other men, youknow?
Don (15:46):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Okay.
So in addition to, uh, your trueman life coaching that you do,
you also have a book that youhave written that is coming out
I believe called true man, trueways, a roadmap of discovery to
the masculine heart.
So.
before we kind of pick apart thebook just a little bit, you
know, you, you've got thisphrase true man, uh, and your
(16:08):
life coaching and your booktitle.
us, you know, I, I'm, you'veprobably unpacked it a little
bit already, but you know, in a,in a nutshell, like, what does
that mean in your, uh, in yourview to be a true man?
Mike Van Pelt (16:20):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
Uh, so true man, right out ofthe Bible is Jesus Christ walk
on earth as a, as a true man.
Why is that important?
Well, he's the ultimate rolemodel.
He's the ultimate role model.
Can we be like Jesus?
Well, we can aspire to be likeJesus, but he lived a sinless
life.
So that's rather difficult todo.
(16:40):
Um, however, he provides us, uh,all the role modeling that that
exist.
And so I did.
What I've come to understand wasoriginally people would ask me,
they're like, well, how do youdefine true man?
And I realized that how I defineit wasn't as important as how
(17:04):
you define it or how somebodyelse defines it.
I can give you virtues.
I can give you things.
Um, yeah.
You know, I, a lot of times Ilook back at the fruit of the
spirit and I'm like, well, ifyou have all these things, you
probably a true man, right?
But the reality is, and here'swhat I, I do love, and this is
(17:25):
about as far as I take it.
And then I allow everybody elseto define it for themselves.
If you're familiar with theseries, the chosen, which I
absolutely love.
And this just totally sticks outin my mind.
We've all read the red in theBible.
You know about, you know, um,Jesus showing up on the
shoreline and Peter and them arefishing and he says, you know,
throw the net, cast the net outon the right side of the boat
(17:47):
and all the fish show up.
Right.
But if you've ever seen theshow, the chosen number one, the
guy that plays Jesus is amazing.
I strongly recommend watchingthe show.
The chosen, but that series isso incredible.
The guy that plays Jesus is soincredible.
And there's that moment where.
You know, they're out fishingand, and, and Jesus says, you
know, casting it out in theright side and they're just
(18:08):
blown away that all these fishare jumping on their boat.
And the way he said, follow me,follow me.
And we've read this dozens oftimes.
And really, to me, really, tome, that summarizes what a true
man is and needs to do.
Just follow Jesus.
If you follow that, you have anopportunity to be a true man.
(18:32):
But ultimately I lay out.
And in the book I tried to dothis.
Hey, what worked for me?
What what are some things that Iput in place?
You know, whether it was goalsetting or or developing a
purpose and a vision and andbeing authentic and real Um and
working on my leadership all ofthose things were like
(18:53):
attributes that You know we'rein the bucket that help me
develop what i consider to be mytrue man definition but i when i
lay all this out i'm laying itout and say hey.
You decide what a true man isfor you.
And I think that's important, animportant aspect of coaching as
(19:16):
a whole because I've heard othercoaches say and it's just like
makes me grip my teeth when Ihear it You know, I fix people
or I fix fix you use this termfix.
I fix absolutely nobody.
I can't It's that the onlyperson that can fix anybody is
(19:37):
you i can help you ask you knowi what i do ask the questions
listen and ask the questions andthen you develop you and i think
that that's what makes i thinkthat's what makes good coaches i
think that's what makes goodleaders i think that's what
makes good parents and i don'tthink we have enough listening
(19:59):
going on in our culture.
Feels like there's a lot moreshouting and fixing, trying to
fix things going on than thereis listening to what people
want.
And so, um, you know, that's soI, the whole idea of true, man,
I kind of let people.
Determine that for, forthemselves.
(20:20):
And it's a lot of fun to seethem define it for themselves.
Don (20:25):
Yeah, that's really good.
I love what you're saying about,uh, about listening.
One of the things that, uh, thatwe do within the context of
manhood tribes, we put a prettybig emphasis on listening, both
on listening to each other andlistening to the voice of God.
Mike Van Pelt (20:40):
Yeah.
Don (20:41):
But, you know, we, we try to say explicitly, uh, are
pretty terrible at givingadvice, you know, when it, to
giving advice, like we love todo it, you know, men are quick
to jump in an easy fix, rarelydo those.
of advice actually lead to reallife transformation.
(21:03):
You know, my kind of way ofthinking about it is like if a
man knew how to solve hisproblems, he would have done it
already.
You know, he doesn't need yourquick fix solution to try to
attempt it.
You know, it just, it justdoesn't work, especially when it
comes to the the bigger anddeeper areas of our lives.
And so I love what you're sayingabout, uh, we, we, we have to be
We've got to really put theemphasis on listening.
(21:24):
We need to listen well to oneanother.
We need to listen to the voiceof God and figure out how to
move forward in those things,you know, not in just our quick
fixes.
So, uh, yeah, that's great.
That's, uh, that's fantastic.
So, okay.
So kind of with that in mind,then like what prompted you to
want to write the book, like.
Moving from coaching to bookwriting, like, you know, there's
(21:45):
a lot of people who do that, butyou know what, in particular,
if, if your model, you know, ofcoaching is focused on
listening, you know, writing abook is not about listening.
Um, so like what prompted you towant to be able to share what
you have to say kind of in thatformat?
How do you think that
Mike Van Pelt (22:00):
No, I guess, I guess I'm crazy.
That's, that's the, yeah.
You know, it's interesting.
Um, as I began my coachingexperience, uh, we, As a family
had, um, uh, a move in store forus during COVID.
My wife's position waseliminated with the company she
was with.
(22:20):
And we had to move and we're nowjust outside of Atlanta,
Georgia.
And, um, when we moved here,that's when the big transition
occurred for me.
And the funny thing of it was,is that was just after COVID.
And I went through this wholeprocess of, should I go out and
network in person or should I beonline?
And.
Oddly enough, I was outnetworking person and this one
(22:43):
guy goes, um, Hey, have youfound such and such a group
online for networking?
And I'm like, no, and but onething led to another because I
met people in that originalnetworking group.
And the next thing you know, youknow, I'm off down a different
path.
And it was through thatnetworking.
I met a guy that was doing someself publishing and, um, this
(23:07):
particular Person just, um,really inspired me and made me
feel like, well, it was possiblefor me to write a book.
And the reason that I, I thinkthat I even thought it was
possible was, you know, I'dalready ventured down this path
of podcasting.
(23:28):
And what was interesting was thepodcast really happened by.
And what I found with thepodcasting was that I was
gaining a tremendous amount ofconfidence.
I didn't know was available.
And in all of that, I found thatGod had given me a gift that I
didn't know was available.
(23:49):
And as a result of that, it mademe go when somebody said, Hey, I
love what you're doing.
We should do a book around this.
And I'm like, yeah, we should doa book around this.
And so the, the, the seed was,was planted and, uh, I did go
down that path.
Now, the funny thing, well, itwasn't funny at the time.
(24:12):
Um, the original manuscript thatI Had written I had placed on an
external hard drive along withall of my old podcast stuff and
the hard drive, well, it died.
And, um, it was, um, there weretwo or three really difficult
(24:35):
days in there.
Like what now, what do I do?
Don (24:38):
bet, man.
Wow.
Mike Van Pelt (24:40):
Fortunately i had saved a couple of chapters and
so i was able to go back andkind of recreate the wheel so to
speak but i had to but iessentially had to start from
scratch but the purpose ofwriting the book was i wanted to
talk about the true man storyand how it started.
(25:01):
And, you know, so, you know, wecall the book true man, true
ways, the ways are laid out inthe chapters of the book.
And I say a roadmap of discoveryto the masculine heart.
And here's where the roadmapidea came from.
So, uh, I give all credit to mybuddy, Paul Bailey, back in
Spartanburg, South Carolina,because when we started, Uh,
(25:23):
when we met, we started our trueman group and Paul and I, um, we
quickly realized that we had alot in common.
And so it wasn't uncommon forhim to send me a text or me to
send him a text and said, let'sgo grab coffee.
Now for a lot of people going tograb coffee means we are going
(25:46):
to go down to the cornerStarbucks and grab a cup of
coffee for Paul and I, what thatmeant was, We're going to hop in
the car.
We lived 18 miles from the NorthCarolina border.
Um, which as we record this, Ijust want to say blessings to
all of those people in theupstate of South Carolina and
Western North Carolina prayingfor you.
(26:08):
I'm very familiar with a lot ofthose roads and places I'm
seeing on the news and it breaksmy heart, but Paul and I would
take about an 18 mile drive upto a wonderful little coffee
stop coffee shop in Columbus,Columbus, South North Carolina.
Ironically called open roadcoffee, um, which is the epic
name for a road trip.
(26:28):
And so our, we would take theseroad trips to go get coffee and
the road trips weren't about thecoffee.
The road trips were about doinglife and it was about the
conversation.
The coffee was great by the way,but it was about building those
relationships.
And, and really it was a way ofus penciling in time margin.
(26:52):
I like to refer to it where wejust talked about life.
And so the whole idea of theroadmap became, and I kind of
make a lot of comments aboutcars and taking road trips and
stuff like that.
Um, That's that that's where thebook title really came from and
and because my thoughts wereokay life is about doing the
(27:19):
right things that you need to dowhether it's you know having.
Setting goals and creating goalsand having a vision and a
purpose in those types of thingsbut the one thing that i think
we do a really not a great jobof his building relationships.
And so, you know, that was thewhole idea of the road trips
(27:41):
and, you know, was buildingthose relationships.
And I think that these arethings that as men, we need to
talk about in our lives.
You know, many of us were, um,we've had to figure out
relationships on the fly, youknow, and so part, you know,
that was part of the buildingout.
The book was, um.
(28:02):
You know, Hey, what did I learnfrom everything that I've gone
through at this point in mylife?
Because like many men, I spent alot of time going, why in the
heck is this happening to me?
You know and sometimes justreally being upset with god that
that was going on in my life atthat point And um, i'm now at a
point where I realize oh my goshThe good lord's been laying out
(28:26):
some steps for me that I didn'trealize were there And i'm just
at a point in my life where i'mbeginning to think more about my
legacy And less about the crapthat I did when I was young and
stupid And I wanted to I wantedto lay that out and say hey,
here's here's how true man gotstarted And here's some
(28:50):
fundamentally basic things Ihate to say it that way but that
you can do to take action onyourself And I think one of the
more important things that I doIn the book is I just don't
write about You know goals orvision or purpose I check in
with scripture in the bible andI say here's what the bible says
(29:12):
about it Not in a preachy way,but I want people to know that
when we're talking about, youknow financial your financial um
empowerment And your physicalvitality that this stuff is
rooted in scripture You know,your body is your temple.
(29:34):
Um, you know, and so, you know,I think they're important.
Everything I do, I try to checkin with scripture and go, Hey,
what does the Bible say aboutthis?
What does Jesus say about this?
What is God saying about this?
And that's my way of going.
Okay, here's, here's my answer.
And here's why this isimportant.
Don (29:53):
Very cool.
Uh, do you have a, like afavorite chapter in the book?
Mike Van Pelt (29:59):
Well, I always.
Don (30:02):
I know that's
Mike Van Pelt (30:02):
Yeah
Don (30:02):
to pick, but.
Mike Van Pelt (30:05):
I always love telling the the True man story,
which I actually get to uh inchapter three.
I don't start with it Ioriginally did and then I I
decided to go a differentdirection And I love I love
Talking about that because itwas when paul and I you know How
(30:26):
paul and I first met how westarted the men's small group
and then you know what cameabout As As a part of that and
and it So much of it you and Iwould not be talking on this
podcast today had paul and I notUm, and i'll say had the guts to
do a one on one after we met ata networking meeting and sat
(30:48):
down at a pizza shop And talkabout life together, you know,
and so It's not lost on me that.
Um god's plans are Far more Thanwe could ever ever dream about
and you know how far I've comefrom that meeting in the pizza
(31:12):
shop to a guy that hadcompletely lost his identity um
and Didn't know intimacy withchrist and you know was commonly
um at that point, you know,probably Wearing a mask, posing,
trying to be something I reallywasn't to everybody, um, because
(31:36):
I thought that's what everybodywanted to see.
And, you know, now, um, youknow, I, I appreciate the, I
have a love, I couldn't tell youmy story back then.
Don i couldn't i couldn't tellit i didn't know what i did and
in fact i didn't want people toknow my story in some respects
(31:59):
um you know because of somecareer things i gone through i
lost my identity there's acouple of things that you know
when you meet somebody you asktheir name and then what do you
do.
And the minute you tell what youdo then as human beings we start
assessing all kinds of things.
(32:21):
Oh, he's a doctor.
He must have a big house, bigcar.
Oh, this guy does this.
He probably has an F 1 50.
And, you know, we start makingall these assessments.
And the thing of it is, is I wasmaking a lot.
Of assessments on what howpeople thought of me because at
one point i wasn't working i wasgoing back to college i was a
(32:41):
stay at home dad and and therewas a piece of me that was like
i'm supposed to be thebreadwinner here i'm supposed to
be the man of the house and iwasn't that and i couldn't even
i remember going to an eventwith my wife and somebody coming
up to me and said well so whatdo you do.
And I couldn't even say anythingdone.
I, I couldn't even say anything.
(33:02):
And my wife had to step in andthat was really prior to me
getting involved more in, in, insome of my men's groups.
But I was, um, I was really, uh,I don't want to say humiliated.
I was really filled with, uh,Shame that I couldn't say to
somebody, Oh, I'm the CEO of da,da, da, da, da, da, da, da,
(33:26):
because that's the image that Ihad of myself and, um, it took,
took me a while to do the workto remove the fact that nobody
cares anybody, what I do.
I
Don (33:40):
Right.
It's a
Mike Van Pelt (33:41):
they care, but they care, but I needed to care
less about what they werethinking about me.
Don (33:47):
Right.
Yeah.
It's not really about identityto them, even if it is or feels
like it is to you.
And yeah, that's, that'simportant.
So, okay.
In the book, you, you cover alot of topics that are, you
know, some, as you, as youmentioned, that are kind of, uh,
like The standard aspects of dayto day, you know, a man's life,
(34:10):
uh, just walking throughphysical vitality, dealing with
finances, you know, just some ofthose kinds of things, but then
you also get into, as you'vementioned, just some of the
deeper aspects of what, what aman's life and his heart really
looks like finding purpose,leaving legacy, those kinds of
things.
And, and I want to just kind ofask you a little bit more about
this issue of the heart, becauseI think this is where.
(34:32):
Most
Mike Van Pelt (34:33):
yeah, so
Don (34:34):
a little challenged.
Why would you say that men needto try to go after and recover
their heart and not just focusedon the behavioral or external
things that the world tried to,to kind of get us to focus on as
men.
Mike Van Pelt (34:49):
many things that happen in a man's life and they
happen at an early age.
And, um, uh, you know, a coupleof examples would be, uh, being
introduced to pornography, um,and or, um, uh, unfortunately
being, uh, uh, abused at a youngage.
(35:11):
And I, I'm always.
amazed at the number of men thatI talked to that have had one or
both of these things happen intheir lives.
And I'm using both of thosebecause it, I hear this
conversation so commonly,particularly pornography.
Um, and what happens whenyou're, uh, Touched by
(35:31):
pornography at a young age andit amazes me how many times I
hear somebody say I first sawpornography when I was seven,
eight, nine years old.
It's as if the devil himself hasearmarked a certain age bracket
because he knows that, you know,um, You know, we, we don't have
the capacity to understand whatwe're looking at, but we can
(35:53):
leave a traumatic mark.
Um, but what happens is whenyou're introduced to those
things at a young age is yourbrain goes down a rabbit hole
that, um, it probably doesn'tneed to be going down.
And if you didn't have a parentor somebody close to you that
was really able to, uh, Talkwith you or did talk with you
(36:14):
about, uh, how to treat theother sex or, you know, what sex
is really about.
You may have a dark picture ofit.
And why is the reason that'simportant is it shows up in our
adult life.
When the relationship reallymatters and, you know, and it
(36:36):
never leaves you.
And in fact, many of us willbury these negative things in
our life, hoping men are, we'rethe pros at this.
We have mastered the art ofburying our feelings or the junk
that has happened to us, hopingIt'll never show back up and it
(36:58):
always shows back up and itreally shows back up in our
relationships.
The people that were the closestto our, our spouse, our
children.
And so, you know, you look atthe divorce rate now and for
many years they used to say,well, the divorce rate is around
50 percent really hard to gaugeright now because covid the
(37:19):
divorce rate spiked.
Um as a result of covid and soyou see a lot of uh statistics
But the point here is that a lotof relationships end badly And,
uh, I, the first one torecognize, okay, sometimes you
didn't get the right partner,you know, or things really
(37:41):
didn't work out.
But a lot of times things don'twork out because there's work
that needs to be done in orderfor you to build a, you know,
more positive relationships inyour life.
And that's going to requiretaking a look in the mirror.
Now, how do we know this istrue?
Well, statistically, uh,remarriages.
(38:02):
Fell faster than the firstmarriage third marriages fell
faster yet.
And so statistically it justgets worse and and what that
proves is Is that you can't runinto another relationship
thinking?
Oh, it was the other personyou're gonna have to look in the
(38:23):
mirror and is that easy?
No, you know i've had to stareinto that mirror on many
Occasions, you know, and, um,you know, if relationships and
overcoming this brokenness,which is really what what's
going on with our hearts werebroken because of something or
(38:45):
some event.
And so that's going to requiresome healing.
Now, you may be able to get someof that healing on your own.
Most people, maybe they have togo to therapy.
Maybe it's going to requirecoaching, but it's, it really
requires an introspection of thebroken heart.
And I can look at a lot ofthings that happened to me when
(39:07):
I was young.
Um, I don't, you know, myparents were great people.
I don't blame, they gave me whatthey could.
Um, there were, you know, the,and there were other things that
happened when I was young thatjust, they didn't show up until
I was an adult.
I mean, I'm 54 and I just had anepiphany on something six months
ago, you know?
(39:28):
Um, and so, you know, it, it's alifelong thing, but I think the
most important aspect that wecan look at is ourselves first,
before we start pointing fingersat other people and going, well,
they're at fault.
Are they, are they maybe, but,but, what's your role?
(39:51):
In it, or as somebody said to mejust the other day and I went,
Oh, who was at the scene of thecrime?
Okay.
If this happened to you a coupleof times, who was at the scene
of the crime?
Uh, oh, you're right.
You caught me.
So, um, you know,
Don (40:09):
Yeah, it's it's Jesus was onto something when he was
saying, you know, take the logout of your own eye first before
you, you know, concede to pullthe speck out of your brother's
eye like it's, he kind of knew.
I mean, he, you know, he knew asinsightfully can, uh, that we
are bad at paying attention toour own issues and quick to find
fault in others.
And, uh, yeah, you're exactlyright.
I think that's fantastic.
Mike Van Pelt (40:30):
Yeah, I think that's what the book really um,
i'm not pointing the finger atanybody In fact nine times out
of the ten.
I call myself the guinea pig.
I'm like, hey Okay, I did thiswrong, but here's what's going
on now
Don (40:43):
from my
Mike Van Pelt (40:44):
Yeah, yeah, and uh, i'll give i'll give you a
little show.
I'll give you or as I like torefer to it in the book You
know, i'll give you a roadmap ofof discovery and and all those
things, um Critically important,but, um, we got to look at
ourselves first.
We have a society built on, um,pointing the finger at somebody
(41:08):
else and not takingresponsibility.
And we gotta, I didn't grow upthat way, right?
I mean, um, I didn't, I didn'tdo a very good job learning
about responsibility and it costme when I was an adult, but,
but, you know, we can't, wegotta stop playing victims in
the world.
We gotta stop playing victimsand we have to learn to take
(41:29):
responsibility first andforemost for ourselves and then
our families and, uh, and takeaction.
On what needs to be done inorder to improve those
relationships.
Don (41:44):
Absolutely.
Mike, this has been a really,really good conversation.
I've enjoyed just hearing moreabout you and about your work.
Uh, tell us more about wherepeople could go to find you
online and find your work.
Mike Van Pelt (41:56):
Sure.
Um, well you can always go to mywebsite, true man, life
coaching.
com.
You will find my, um, uh, a lotof information out there.
You can get a hold of mycalendar.
Um, Podcast is on there.
If you, uh, just go to true manpodcast.
com.
Uh, It'll take you right to thethe podcast and it'll allow you
(42:17):
to click on your favoritepodcast channel.
And um, You know, that's that'swhere i'm learning.
My best book discovery is comingfrom is the Is the podcast so if
you hear me talking about on thepodcast it may show up in a book
again somewhere but um, but thewebsite's definitely the best
the the books the Uh, availablefor pre sale on my website and,
(42:43):
uh, I'd love it if you'd checkit out.
I mean, it's, it's just, um, it,it, it's what I discovered
worked for me and I would liketo think it will work for you if
you make the decision to applyit.
Don (43:01):
Fantastic.
All right, Mike, thank you forjoining the show today.
It's been good to have you.
Mike Van Pelt (43:05):
Thanks Donna.
I appreciate it.
You having me on.
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