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December 31, 2024 29 mins

In this episode of the Manhood Tribes Show, we dive deep into the concepts of heaven and the next life. 

Host Don explores the hope, longing, and key elements of a masculine faith—epic, purposeful, and resilient. We wrap up the series, discussing the significant aspects of the Christian faith, misconceptions about heaven, and the future resurrection and new bodies. 

Don also touches on the idea of eternal life on earth, Jesus' return, and the ultimate union with God. 

This thought-provoking episode encourages us to envision our role and dreams in the next age and challenges us to cultivate a hopeful heart about what lies ahead.

00:00 Introduction: Contemplating Heaven
00:43 Manhood Quiz: How Manly Are You?
01:18 Series Recap: The Way of the King
01:48 Defining Masculine Faith
06:18 Misconceptions About Heaven
08:59 Biblical Perspective on the Next Age
14:19 Resurrection and New Bodies
17:11 Defeating Enemies and Spiritual Powers
19:12 Union with Christ: The Wedding Feast
21:42 Imagining the New Age
24:38 Personal Hopes for the New Age
28:10 Conclusion: Embracing a Masculine Faith

💪 Want to know how you measure up as a man? Take our free quiz, called How Manly Are You? and learn how you can get better at being a man. Download for free at manhoodtribes.com/manly. 💪

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Don Ross (00:00):
What do you think about when you think about
heaven?
What images come to mind?
What ideas.
Fill your heart.
Is there hope there is therelonging.
These questions are soimportant.
And yet as men, we rarely oftengive them any time at all.
On today's episode.
I want to try to give them a lotof time.

(00:22):
So let's dive into that todayhere on the manhood trap show.

(00:44):
Guys want to know how youmeasure up as a man?
I've got a great resource foryou.
It's called how manly are you?
And it's a free quiz that youcan take to figure out how you
stack up against what it meansto be a man.
And when you take the quiz,you'll also get some free
resources to help you figure outhow you can get better as a man
in the areas where you wouldlike to grow.

(01:05):
So go to manhoodtribes.com/manlyto download your free.
How manly are you quiz today?
That's manhoodtribes.com/manly.
All right, man.
Welcome to the manhood tribeshow.
My name is Don.
I'm your host.
And today we are going to wrapup our series that we have been

(01:26):
doing called the way of theking.
Now this has really been aseries that's been all about
trying to help us as men figureout how we can develop a
masculine faith.
That actually feels likesomething that we want to be a
part of that as men, it feelsmanly, but it also feels like it
is relevant to the daily thingsof our lives.

(01:48):
Now as part of this series, I'vesaid that to have a masculine
faith, it needs to be at leastthree things.
It needs to be epic, meaningthat the story that it tells
needs to be big and grand andlarge and scale, it needs to be
about more than just my life.
I'm not the centerpiece of thestory.
It needs to be big enough that Ican have a part to play, but it

(02:09):
covers the whole scope of humanhistory and beyond.
It also needs to be purposeful,meaning that even though it's
not about me, I Dean I do needto have a purpose in the story.
I need to have a role to play.
I need to have some kind ofaction to be able to take that
helps move the story forward.
I need to be essential andincremental to what's happening

(02:32):
in this big epic adventure.
That I'm a part of.
If it's going to feel like as aman, I actually matter to the
story and the story shouldmatter to me.
But then lastly, it should alsofeel like it is resilient.
And by that, I mean, it shouldstand up to the really hard
tests of life.
When we, as men encounter allthe dangers and difficulties

(02:54):
that come with living this life.
Our faith should be able tostand up in front of those
things and not get knocked downso easily.
We shouldn't be able to push itover just because life gets hard
and it no longer feels like ithas anything to say to that.
Instead at our hardest moments,our faith should feel like the
thing that we're able to turn toand say, this helps me be able

(03:14):
to navigate all of these reallydifficult places in my story.
Okay.
So a masculine faith needs tofeel like it has those three
components that it's epic, it'spurposeful, it's resilient.
And if it can be those things,then it becomes something that
we as men actually want topractice.
It's something that we actuallywant to be a part of, not feel
like we're obligated to be apart of it, or we're just kind

(03:36):
of going along because our wifewants us to, or, you know,
whatever other reason that thereis that we might choose to
participate in faith.
We need to get to a place wherewe actually want to, because as
men.
We feel invited into somethingthat is big and manly.
Now I have been saying allthroughout this series, that
there have been six big areasthat we needed to talk about the

(03:58):
Christian faith to helpunderstand why it is maybe not
the faith that you think you'vebeen presented with.
If you're somebody who has grownup around church, or if not,
maybe it's not at all the ideaof what you think Christianity
is.
If you've kind of grown up onthe edges of.
Christian culture.
For any of us who have grown upin America or just in the west

(04:19):
at large, we've had someexposure to Christianity and
most of us probably have somewrong headed ideas about what
Christianity is.
So in this series, I've tried tocover a lot of those things and
help correct some ideas that Ithink we've gotten wrong, but
also help paint a picture of theChristian faith of how it really
does meet those criteria forbeing a masculine faith.

(04:41):
We've talked about the big storythat we're meant to be a part of
all the way back from thebeginning and the creation of
the world and the creation ofhumanity.
Through things like the comingof Jesus and how he becomes king
over the whole universe and howwe are meant to respond to him
and give him our allegiance.
And in doing so that reallyshapes everything about our

(05:03):
lives.
And when it shapes our lives, webegin to see what the point of
our lives really is.
The point is to be in union withGod.
We were meant to become one withGod.
And in doing that, it shapes ourrelationships, both with people
who choose to follow Jesus andthose who don't and what our
purpose is, and being able tolive all of those kinds of

(05:23):
things out.
So we start to see howsignificant the story really is,
how it does impact everythingabout us in big and amazing ways
and how it calls us up intosomething that is really, really
good.
And then the centerpiece of allof it, all of it.
Is this idea that Jesus is ourking and we are choosing to give
him our allegiance and to followhim.

(05:46):
So how far are we following him?
If we get all the way to the endof our story.
To the point of death.
What does it look like to followJesus even into that place?
This is a question that I'vekind of been teasing all
throughout this series to saythat, Hey, there's more coming.
And the reason is, is that thisis probably one of the places

(06:09):
that I think American Christiansin particular, but Western
Christians, especially over thepast several centuries.
Have really kind of missed themark on.
If you ask most people about theChristian understanding of life
after death, it usually justinvolves the idea of going to
heaven when you die.
And those who aren't Christiansare those who have offended God
in some pretty big ways, orthose who have done wrong for

(06:31):
most of their life are not goingto go to heaven, but they're
going to go to a place calledhell, which is a place of
punishment and torment and somekind of, you know, repayment for
all the wrongs that they havedone.
But that's really it.
Those are the two big ideas,heaven, and hell, and the
Christian ideas that you go toone place or the other.
And we want to try to all end upin heaven.

(06:51):
That's where Jesus is and that'swhere we want to be.
And, you know, we don't exactlyknow what life in heaven kind of
looks like, but we have thesesort of vague ideas of it's
going to be good.
And maybe you conjure up imagesof things like pearly gates and
streets of gold, or maybe youthink of like, Baby angels
floating on clouds, playingharps or something like that.

(07:14):
Or maybe you've been told thatheaven is just like one never
ending worship service in thesky.
And you're thinking, am I goingto sing all those like boring
hymns that my grandma loved foreternity?
Like.
What is the benefit of that?
And no, thank you.
So, this is really kind of theproblem.
When most of us think aboutheaven, we have these really

(07:34):
kind of like weak.
Limp wristed milk toast ideas ofwhat heaven is kind of all
about.
And it just is uninspiring.
It's not something that any ofus really want.
Maybe there are some ideas ofthings like, well, we'll get to
see our loved ones who died orthere won't be any more sickness
and disease and no one diesanymore.

(07:56):
And those are all really goodthings that we get to say like,
yeah, the bad things in thislife are eliminated.
And so we can at least lookforward to that.
But what does life thereactually look like and what is
there to anticipate and to bejoyful about why would we
actually want to go to heaven?

(08:17):
So that's the question that Iwant to try to address today.
And I do need to address itbecause like I said, we've got
some really wrong ideas aboutit, all those things that I just
mentioned, those vague ideas ofwhat heaven is like those
cultural images that we kind ofcontinuously conjure up.
None of those are correct.
None of them.

(08:38):
And so what we get when we lookat the picture of the next life
to come in the scriptures, It'sa very different idea than those
cultural things of heaven.
So as we examine it, I want usto really ask the question, why
would we want to go, what are weanticipating about the next
life?

(08:59):
So that's where I want to startactually is with the idea of the
next life.
The biblical scriptures.
Want us to think about heaven inthe sense of a new age?
So the biblical writers oftentalk about this present age and
the age to come.
So when we tend to think aboutit today, we think about life.

(09:20):
And then we think about lifeafter death.
And it kind of creates theselike weird categories where
death is the divider, but reallyin the biblical tradition death,
isn't the divider between thisage and the next age to come.
That divider is actually whathappens when Jesus returns.
He has promised that he iscoming back.

(09:41):
He came once to the earth andhuman form and he is promising
that he will do that again.
And when he does his kingdomwill be fully realized and he
will usher in this new age tocome.
And in this new age, all kindsof amazing things begin to
happen.
And that's what we are meant tobegin to look forward to.

(10:04):
What happens between now andthen is really important and
that some of where we get ourideas about heaven.
So let's talk about heaven inparticular.
Here's the thing, and here'skind of like big mind blowing
idea that I want to start youout with.
The next age is not actuallyabout going to heaven when you

(10:25):
die.
Our eternal destination is notheaven.
We are not meant to live as kindof these like disembodied
spirits who exist in a heavenlyplane where Jesus lives.
That's not at all.
What the Bible teaches.
In fact what the Bible teachesis that heaven is coming to
earth.

(10:46):
Our eternal destination is tolive on the earth.
We will be with Jesus becauseJesus is coming here.
The picture of what happens inthe next age is that heaven
comes to be on the earth.
That God unites the two realms,the spiritual realm and the
physical realm and heaven ishere on earth.

(11:09):
But our place, as it was alwaysmeant to be is here on the
earth.
We will actually be able to bethe kinds of humans that we were
meant to be and do the kinds ofthings that humans were meant to
do.
Which if you remember from thestory.
Is that we are meant torepresent God here on this
world.
And to rule it as he would ruleit in his stead, we are the

(11:32):
Kings and Queens, the governorsof this world.
And it will be our place toactually continue ruling.
So we are not escaping.
We are not trying to get off theearth.
We are trying to actually be whowe were always meant to be and
to rule earth the way that Godmeant for us to be able to do
that.
That is what happens in the nextage.

(11:53):
But when, when those of us whodie are waiting for the next age
to begin, when Jesus returns,there is some place that we go.
We don't get to hang on to ourbodies, but that's only
temporary.
Instead our spirits go to bewith Jesus.
The Bible talks about this asthe idea of being with him in

(12:14):
paradise.
And that's where we begin to seethat being in the heavenly realm
in the spiritual realm withJesus is the place that those
who are followers of Jesus, ourspirits go there when we die,
but we don't, we're not meant tostay there.
But we're not meant to staythere.
Heaven is not our eternaldestination.

(12:36):
It is a temporary destinationwhere our spirits go to be with
Jesus until he returns.
And when he returns, we returnwith him.
And he resurrects us into newglorious bodies and we will be
on the earth.
For eternity with him.
Okay.
So I know that was a lot, right?

(12:57):
If you have grown up in theAmerican church, that is
probably an idea that you havenot really heard very much, or
maybe you've heard it vaguelytalked about, but still your
conception has more to do withbeing the spirit who lives in
heaven for eternity, with Jesus.
When we go to a funeral or whenwe talk about someone dying, we
talk about them going to heaven,but we rarely, if ever talk

(13:18):
about them coming back, werarely talk about the fact that
they will have a new body.
We rarely talk about the factthat they will.
We'll be ruling someplace hereon earth that they will be given
a role in Jesus's eternalkingdom.
We don't talk about those thingsmaybe because they're confusing
or we're afraid of them, orbecause we're not really sure
what all of that means.
And so, because it's vague, wedon't like to talk about it.

(13:40):
And the idea of being in somepeaceful, happy place with Jesus
as much more comforting andconsoling.
And the times of grief and lossthat surround death.
And that makes sense.
But it's still not accurate.
It's not really what scripturesteach us about this next age to
come.
Okay.
So that's the first big thingthat I wanted to let you know

(14:01):
about because it really sets thesets the course for everything
else that we have to look about.
And in the next age, heaven willcome to earth and we will be
here.
The earth is our eternaldestination.
The next thing that I want totalk about, which I've already
hinted at.
Is the idea that we will begiven new bodies in the next

(14:23):
age.
The scriptures.
Talk about that.
Jesus is the first born from thedead, meaning that he is setting
a pattern for what is meant tohappen for everyone who has
given their allegiance to him.
That while we will physicallyexperience death here on the
earth, that is not the end ofour story.

(14:43):
And in fact, As just asresurrection came for him.
Resurrection will come for us aswell.
This has always been part of theChristian story.
And in fact, for many centuries,people were buried in cemeteries
in a direction where theyanticipated that Jesus would
return so that their bodiescould rise up out of the ground

(15:04):
and go to meet him.
Now that may or may not beexactly how resurrection is
going to work, but the point wasclear and it's one that we
really have kind of lost incentury since then.
Jesus will return.
And when he does, he will raisethe dead from the dead and give
us new glorious bodies withwhich we will be able to carry

(15:27):
out his commands and rule.
As he intended us to rule now,what will those bodies be like?
We don't know exactly, but weget some clues by looking at
Jesus's resurrected body.
As we see it in the Bible.
Jesus has resurrected bodylooked for the most part.
Like any other body people wereable to recognize him as Jesus.

(15:47):
They, you know, were still ableto see him.
He had many of the same featuresclearly that he had had before
because people recognized him.
But at the same time, his bodywas able to do very different
things while he would eat anddrink and sleep just like he did
before.
He also seemed to be able to dothings like walk through walls

(16:08):
or.
I be in one place and thenappear in another, or just
disappear altogether.
Or he seemed to have the abilityto make his appearance change so
that he wasn't recognizable.
So there's some really strangethings that go on there.
And the picture of Jesus'sresurrected body, that we don't
know exactly what all of thatmeans and how, and if we will be

(16:30):
able to do those things, butwhat's clear is that we will
have a physical body and it willbe beautiful and glorious and be
able to do some things that wewere.
Probably meant to do all along.
But will now only be availableto us because of this new age
that comes with Jesus's kingdomcoming fully on earth.
We also know that we will nolonger experience sickness and

(16:54):
death.
The scriptures talk about that.
All tears will be wiped away.
And so grief and loss will nolonger be a thing that we have
to endure in our bodies.
All of that will be defeated byJesus in his return.
And that brings me to the nextthing.
When Jesus returns and ushers inthe new age, he is going to

(17:16):
defeat.
All of our enemies.
So one of those enemies is deathand sickness and illness that
comes with it.
He will defeat death and it willno longer be a thing that we
have to fear or experience, buthe is also going to defeat
finally, all the rogue spiritualpowers that we have been up

(17:36):
against when we started thestory we heard.
That because of a rogue,spiritual being who rebelled
against God, we were temptedinto rebelling as well.
And that eventually God actuallyhanded all of humanity over to
these rogue spiritual powers.
Who have ruled over parts of theearth ever since then?
We have been in slavery at onepoint in time to the kingdom of

(17:58):
darkness.
Now, hopefully you have come outof the kingdom of darkness and
have given your allegiance toJesus and are part of his
kingdom of light, but there willbe many who will still be part
of those kingdoms of darkness.
But Jesus is coming and willdefeat all of those rogue
spiritual powers.
They will be cast into somethingthat the scriptures cogs, the

(18:19):
lake of fire.
Now, whether that's a metaphoror a real thing, you know, your
guests is probably as good asmine, but the point is there
will be real justice served tothese rogue spiritual powers who
have led us astray who have putus through suffering and have
kept us in slavery formillennia.
Finally justice will be dealt inthe spiritual realm as it always

(18:43):
was meant to be.
And we will no longer have tofear the spiritual powers.
In fact, we will actually beable to take their place.
So many of those spiritualpowers were a part of God's
divine council and they will bestripped of their places within
the authority of God's divinecouncil.
And we will be able to take uptheir places because we will be

(19:06):
afforded a very specialprivilege.
And that's the next point that Iwant to be able to talk about.
In the new age to come, we willbe married to Christ now.
Again, that's some kind of ametaphor.
It may be an exact metaphor, orit may have some kind of broader

(19:26):
spiritual implications.
I don't really know, but I doknow that our destiny, as we
have talked about is to be infull and complete union with
God.
And that is going to take placethrough something called the
wedding feast of the lamb.
Where the church is wed toJesus.
How exactly that works.
Nobody really knows, but thepoint is that in the same way

(19:49):
that oneness is accomplishedthrough marriage.
It will be accomplished in us toJesus as well.
And that will be something thatis true of no other being and
all of creation.
We will be afforded the specialplace to become one with God.
So we will be afforded a placeamong the divine council, but we

(20:12):
will have a high place as partof the family of God who is now
in full union with him.
This is a special, specialprivilege, and it is something
to look forward to, to beingable to enjoy that kind of
closeness and intimacy in ourrelationships with God.
I don't even know what thatintimacy will actually look

(20:34):
like.
I think the scriptures kind ofhint at the idea that all the
things that we know aboutmarriage, the companionship, the
joy, and yes, even the sex.
Is somehow meant to beforeshadowing.
What our marriage to Christ willbe.
I don't know how that works.
What, you know, what does sex inthe context of a spiritual union

(20:55):
with Jesus even look like I haveno idea at all.
But the oneness and the unionthat is accomplished through
that, but also the joy and thepleasure is something that I
think will be true of our unionwith Jesus, probably in some
ways that we cannot possiblyimagine right now, but will
absolutely blow our minds.
When we finally get toexperience it.

(21:16):
So I think all of that issomething that we have to look
forward to and even toanticipate, and to kind of let
our imaginations run wild onlike a bride and groom looking
forward to their wedding nightand maybe not knowing what
they're exactly getting into,but knowing that it's going to
be really good.
We ought to have that same kindof anticipation for our union

(21:37):
with Jesus.
We don't really know what'scoming, but we know it's going
to be amazing.
So with all that being said,With Jesus's kingdom fully
realized here on earth heaven,coming to earth, us being
resurrected and having newglorious bodies, being able to
take up our place as Kings andQueens on the earth being fully

(22:01):
United to Jesus and having allof our enemies defeated and all
the injustices in our livesmade.
Right.
Finally.
Then what happens?
Honestly.
No one knows.
But what we do know is that allof those really amazing things

(22:21):
are just the beginning.
I've titled this episode, theend, because most of us, when we
think about heaven, think ofthat.
Being something that comes atthe end of our lives.
But what scripture seems to makereally clear if we can pay
attention to the story is thatall of those things I've just
described when Jesus returns arejust the beginning of a new age,

(22:44):
an age that doesn't end.
In his book, the last battle,which is a part of the
Chronicles of Narnia CS Lewis istelling the story of those who
lived in Narnia and got towitness its end, got to witness
the culmination of the entirestory of Narnia.
And began to see what was goingto happen on the other side of

(23:05):
it.
And he writes this.
Now at the last they werebeginning chapter.
One of the great story, which noone on earth has read.
Which goes on forever and ever.
In which every chapter is betterthan the one before.
That is the picture of whatanticipates us.

(23:28):
What we are waiting for andhoping for.
Every chapter gets better as weget to experience everything
that we've wanted to experienceand to have our hopes and dreams
fulfilled, to be who we werealways meant to be to love and
be in relationship as we werealways meant to be able to do so
to adventure, as we've alwayswanted to do.

(23:50):
All of those things become areality and in probably ways
that are grander and moreglorious than we possibly could
imagine right now.
But just because they aregrander and more glorious than
we could imagine doesn't meanthat we shouldn't imagine.
In fact, we should.
We should try to imagine what isthis new age going to be like?
We should allow the hope to riseup in our hearts to help us

(24:14):
anticipate what is coming sothat we actually do long for the
return of Jesus, the beginningof the new age.
And not only because it means.
All the hard things about thislife will be wiped away.
That's good.
We should long for that, but weshould also long for being with
him.
And exploring.

(24:34):
All that this new age has tooffer.
With him.
So that's what I want tochallenge you to today.
I want to challenge you to takea few minutes, to think about
and to write down maybe one ortwo things that you would really
anticipate about the new age.
When you give your heart room toimagine and to hope.

(24:57):
What is it that you would reallylike to see or like to do, or
like to be part of, or a personthat you would like to get to
know or an experience that youwould like to have?
What are you hoping for?
I'll share with you a couple ofmine.
One is that I would love tolearn to play the cello.
And I know that that might seemrather simple.

(25:19):
And you might look at me and saylike, you probably got lots of
time left in your life.
Why don't you just do it now?
Well, I could, but I also got awhole lot going on in my life.
My life is very full.
Finding the time to be able totake lessons and practice, to
learn an instrument in a waythat I would actually enjoy it
probably takes time andinvestment that I don't really
have, or at least that I want tobe given to other things that

(25:42):
are bigger priorities for methan learning to play the cello.
But I would love to learn to doit.
I love the sound of the cello.
I love how soothing and deep andrich it can be.
But also how it just capturessort of, uh, a deep human
element to the way that it playsmusic.
I want to be able to not onlyknow that, but to share it so

(26:03):
that others can experience it aswell.
I probably won't ever get thatopportunity in this age, but I'm
hoping for it.
And the next stage.
Another one that I'm reallyhoping for is I love waterfalls.
There is something just sobeautiful and majestic and
powerful to waterfalls that Ilove seeing them being in around

(26:25):
them.
And if I can playing in them,they're so much fun.
I would love to go to all theplaces in the world where I
could see some of the biggestand grandis waterfalls that our
earth has to offer.
I would love to see Niagarafalls in Victoria falls in
falls, and so many others.
But I know that the reality ofme being able to jet set all

(26:48):
over the world, just to be ableto see waterfalls is probably
never going to happen in thislife.
But maybe in the age to come, Icould get that opportunity.
I would have all the time Icould ever want for it to be
able to explore and to see allthese waterfalls.
And maybe even as God bringsabout new creation or renewed

(27:08):
creation, there might be newwaterfalls to get to explore.
I might even be able to be thefirst person to encounter one of
God's new waterfalls.
Oh, what a privilege that wouldbe so cool to get to experience
a waterfall for the first timeto be the first person to come
upon something so beautiful andbreathtaking.

(27:28):
Wouldn't that be amazing?
That would be amazing for meanyway.
What would be amazing for you?
I want you to take a few minutesand to actually think about it.
To let that hope come alive andto Kindle and you a desire for
the next age to come.
Because the next age to comemeans Jesus will return.
And that's where we need todirect our hopes to be able to

(27:50):
say, I want to learn the cello.
And so I want Jesus to come backso that I can experience doing
that with him.
I want to see all of thesewaterfalls.
So I want him to come back sothat he and I can begin
exploring those things together.
That is the hope of what iscoming for us in the new age.

(28:10):
All right, man.
I hope that this episode hasdone something for your heart.
I hope it has awoken somethingin you and inspired you to dream
and to long for, and to hope foreverything that Jesus has to
offer, because what he isoffering us.
It's absolutely grand and mindblowing.
I hope that this series has doneyou.

(28:30):
Good.
I hope it has helped you to seethat a masculine faith is a real
thing and it's possible.
And for those of you who may notyet call yourself Jesus
followers.
I hope it has given you apicture of a faith that would
actually be something you wouldbe interested in.
Go back and listen to the entireseries and let it stir some
things in you that you've maybenever had stirred before.

(28:51):
And if.
Uh, by any means possible, youcan give your allegiance to
Jesus now would be a good timeto do so.
Thanks, man.
I look forward to talking to younext time on the manhood tribe
show.
When we will begin a brand newseries, I'll see you then.
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