Mat Chat: Three Masters Roast the Latest Taekwondo Gear Disaster

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome to the Warehouse 15.
It's another day, anotherdollar.
We don't have a guest todaybecause we have three of the
best guests here today.
How are you doing, coach Moreno?
I'm good, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm excited to be here.
I got myself a little longweekend spring break here in
Miami for all the kids, and so Ihave a couple of days off.
So I'm relaxing today outside.
I finished my work early, I'mabout to go to the beach
tomorrow and next time you seeme, yo like my shirt, baby, come
on, can you read?
Can you read?

Speaker 3 (00:53):
I'm loving the shirt and I want to thank you for my
peak shirt that you left herethis weekend.
It's in the laundry, otherwiseI'd be wearing it right now.
How you doing tj.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
I'm sorry, I'm chilling.
I'm chilling, not again.
Always, uh, secondary on theweather there.
It looks all nice over there inMiami, but I'm in North
Carolina the best place on earth, according to Master Perez
himself so I'm super excited tobe here.
As always, let's not missanother week.
Last week was on me.
People Got a little busy, butwe're back, so let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
That threw me off a little bit, man.
We love you TJ.
We love you TJ.
Oh, look at Mr Perez, look atthat.
That's so sweet.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, so what's up?

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Well, we missed last week and that was not due to
anyone's fault in particular.
You know we're busy on demandfor seminars and all sorts of
cool stuff and master moreno wasout here, but here's the.
Uh, we got a shout out to oneof our favorite.
First, thank you to budobrothers for sending me a jacket
as always, we appreciate yourlove, and thank you for that
kind email you sent back to me.
Also, I want to thank centurycentury martial arts, who has

(02:00):
always been a big advocate forour sport, for us as people, and
always took care of us well,took care of two us as people,
and always took care of us Well,took care of two or three of us
.
So he took care of me and Juanand David Wall, who's president
of Century, and Mike Diller Jr,who's running it as well.
I want to thank you both forsending Master Coach Moreno the
following products Master Coach,yeah, yeah, send me the

(02:23):
original rip cords, the bungeecords.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
I bought some.
I've had cords forever, butyeah, I was looking for them
again and I reached out to youand you hooked me up with these
guys and so, yeah, they gave mea couple of each color.
So actually I already used them.
Used them on Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Well, the problem is the rip cord, which was designed
by me way back in the day.
We made it too well.
We made it last forever.
The ones that I have from 20,30 years ago, still working.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
I still have a couple .

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah, they don't make them like Apple phones.
My Apple phone stops workingafter a year, so I can get a new
one.
But again, thank you to oursponsors.
Go ahead, I got a quick shoutout too.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
I was, you know.
I was in, I got to give creditwhere credit's due and sometimes
I know we always don't agree onthings, but I was out there in
the San Francisco area One of myformer athletes, james Howell.
We did a little fast camp outthere and the shirts were
actually provided by Tusa Gunny.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Kong so.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
I mean shout out to him.
He hooked us up with some nicedry foot shirts, gave me a nice
jacket.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
So thank gunny and tucson as well oh, honey, honey,
can you get that shirt out ofmy laundry basket please?
Yeah, we're gonna.
No, no, we need that.
We're gonna use that one toclean the car no, we'll save the
logo.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
We'll save the logo also I gotta give a shout out to
my boy, tj, because he's beenwaiting for some shirts that I
just got.
You know, I sweetened the pot alittle bit.
I'm gonna have to get hook hookthem up with these right here.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
One of these right here, that one right there.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
I'll give you both, I'll give you both.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Thank you, sir.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
We got all our people in every century for sure.
They're the best.
Muto just sent me some reallygreat stuff as well.
They have this blue uniformthat I love to wear, and Muto's
got a new thing coming out Jamesover at Muto, james Kim just a
wonderful family and alwayssupporting the California

(04:14):
taekwondo scene.
We have our regionals coming upand I think he's going to be
out there, as he always is doingthe extra time.
But TJ, tj, we're going to getyou some government cheese or
something, because yeah, I keepkeeping me out on the side,
that's okay.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
When I start making my stuff, I'll make sure I send
y'all's first, because that'sthat's just that's what I do but
well, you guys, I got somecheese.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
It's not government cheese, I got some trader joe's
um you guys remind me I did dosomething cool this weekend.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
I actually had the.
I did an actual trainingseminar at um master's World
Class Taekwondo, which is inGreensville, south Carolina, so
it's about two hours away fromhere, so the goal this weekend
was to kind of get a lot ofpeople in that area together and
kind of start, you know,following with developing sport
Taekwondo just in thesurrounding area.
So we had a good, decent numbershow for the first one.

(05:00):
Their facilities was amazing soI had a good time?

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, I heard it, it was a good turnout.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
I mean it was a good turnout.
It ran pretty well.
We used the electronic systemit was I can't remember the name
of it, but there's one systemthat you can run data or kp and
p on like it's like some hybridsystem but, it worked pretty
well for training.
So, uh, I wanted to say thankyou to them.
It was definitely had anawesome time and definitely
looking forward to the next onemean a lot of people showed
interest in kind of doing itagain, so hopefully next couple

(05:25):
of months we'll be back at itagain for the North Carolina,
south Carolina area.
So thank you guys that showedup Sounds amazing Well.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
I know there's a lot going on in the Taekwondo world
that we have to get to, butlet's start it off.
I'm going to throw the topicout.
I think we should talk aboutsome groundbreaking things.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
First time in history for the ILC we have a new
president and it's a female andI think it's.
You know I don't want to sayit's about time, you know, but
obviously's good to.
I mean, heck, we talk aboutthis all the time.
I know we rag on it andsometimes even in our own

(06:07):
sporting, the WT.
You know we've had the sameleadership for a long time and
forget about if it's good or bad.
It gets a little stale andsometimes you just need some new
blood.
You know, and I think it wastime.
And you know a former Olympicathlete from New Zealand, I
believe right.
Athlete from New Zealand, Ibelieve right, or I'll show you,
and you know medalist, you knowmultiple medals in multiple

(06:28):
Olympic games, and so I thinkit's just, it's awesome.
And you know, I think there'sit could be a trend as far as
having getting more femaleleadership.
You know, in the IOC and abroad, I know that there's some
talking we can talk about laterabout a few new presidents
coming up within our sportingtaekwondo world.
That could happen and I thinkit'd be good to be honest with

(06:50):
you.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
I don't know much about their selection, but how
long does the current presidentlike?
Do they have like a certainnumber of terms, or how does
that work?

Speaker 3 (06:59):
They get two terms, and I want to say I've got to
remember, but I think it's sixyears, so Bach was president for
a while, and he you know theIOC is no different than any
organization.
They control and rule the roost, and the way they do that is by
they hold the purse stringsright, so they can make stuff

(07:22):
happen by the way they do whatthey do right, so they they can
make stuff happen by the waythey do what they do, and, as
doing what they do oh, look atthat beautiful rainbow behind me
, let's keep it rainbowy so, uh,it's uh.
The way they do it, though, isthey do it by the money purse so
these guys all have the pursein front of them, they use it

(07:43):
and, um, as such, they're ableto curry favor.
So, over the years, what yousee in front of them, they use
it and, as such, they're able tocurry favor.
So, over the years, what yousee in most of these
organizations, as always, isthey have the ability to gain
favor with the countries thathave the most power inside the
movement.
And it was interesting to seeCoventry make it through,

(08:04):
because she's not from Zimbabwe,not New.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Zealand.
I'm sorry, yeah, zimbabwe.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Well she sounds, her accent makes her sound like that
, but she was preferred by Bach,the current sitting president,
and she was up againstSamaranch's son and Samaranch
was the original gangster.
Yep, and then the guy thateverybody thought who I thought
would get it was Sebastian Cole,who was the runner from Great

(08:31):
Britain and a very politicalinsider.
But you know, the challenge is,the politics of the IOC are very
similar to, if not as bad as,some of the others.
It's really a fiefdom of royalsand people with a ridiculous
amount of money and they curryfavor and that's how you end up
being elected.
So, um, whether she does greatthings or not, I'm not a big fan

(08:56):
of um.
I think you pick people ontheir ability to get stuff done.
Meritocracy, not based onrelationships so it'll be
interesting to see what she'sdone.
But you know, bach madetremendous mistakes while he was
there, including the things hedid with taekwondo, the things
he did with some of the e-gamesand all this other nonsense and

(09:17):
it could be frank break dancing.
You know, will we ever get raygun out of our mind?
She was raw, she got moves themoves dude I were you gonna say
something to you.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
I was gonna say you got it.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
You got it.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
I was about to ask another like question no, I, I
was gonna say like, first of all, I, I you're right, I mean
about this whole you know, it'swho you know and, quite honestly
, most of the people that youtalk with they have a good
amount of money as well, youknow, or they get their.
You know people behind thempushing them and it's it
shouldn't be like that.
So I agree with you, should bebased on merit.

(09:51):
Hopefully she was.
It's interesting that you knowBach kind of supported her and
she went through.
So we'll see what that thatthat says.
But I heard I read something Ithink a couple of days, I don't
know when I read it, but cause Iheard I read something, I think
a couple of days, I don't knowwhen I read it, but because it's
been about 10 days I think.
But she mentioned somethingabout the opening up talks or
inclusion, possibly with theRussians again.
So I think that's interestingbecause that's been a hot topic,

(10:13):
you know, because Bach kind ofjust kind of pushed it to the
side and kind of used the wordpolitical thing and I don't know
.
I mean, I understand that, butI mean I didn't know.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
I mean I, I.
I understand that, but I mean Ididn't like it.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
I didn't like it I mean either?
Well, I didn't like it for oursport because some of the best
athletes were not not able to goin there and they had nothing
to do with that, and so, matterof fact, some of them that were
in the military, you know, samething no-transcript.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Too much like either I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
And then some of them were going to, they were
registering under some islandyeah, these russians were and
the wt let that happen.
And then all of a sudden, youknow.
So it's kind of like, if you'regonna let him, let him in, if
you're not gonna let him in,don't let him in.
But, um, I don't know.
I think anyway, it's a hottopic, so she's gonna be, you
know, thrown into the fire rightaway with that.
I think it's good, I thinkthat's interesting.

Speaker 3 (11:13):
Did you think the russians should be let in, or?

Speaker 1 (11:15):
for us.
I did I mean for our sport andthe timing of it, and when
everything went down like it wasjust, it didn't make any sense
and it's weird.
It didn't make any sense, Idon't want to get political
about that.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Ukraine and Russia should be there.
I get it.
We can't let people in theworld just go and occupy.
But I mean, depending who youtalk to, I'm just talking from a
sporting event.
From a sporting event.
What did a guy that doesTaekwondo have anything to do
with that?
You know, and I know it's tough, I know it's a hot topic, but

(11:49):
if you ask me, I I wouldn't letthe athletes go in.
I would have been more kickingpeople out when they were doping
.
Yeah, when you know, certaincertain countries were getting
smashed by doping and all of asudden they were back in.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
No, problem wasn't that, wasn't that russia too, it
was maybe that played allrussia and china maybe that all
tied into the decision.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
I don't know, like I don't know, maybe, but say it if
you're gonna say it you know,but, it's funny because, herb,
you talked about, like honestly,maybe I wasn't paying attention
to the ioc world, but I didn'teven know the new election was
going on.
And so it leads me to a kind ofa side topic that I saw, like
just recently that usa ticwanowas looking for athlete advisory

(12:25):
committee people.
From the time that I saw thepost and I could have been late
it was like four days tonominate yourself and get
elected.
I was kind of like man see,that's kind of crazy things that
I think should be out a lotearlier.
If you really are concerned andyou want to have athletes
advocates, shouldn't you beposting that six months before?

(12:47):
Five months before, not a week,not 10 days?
You know, because look at me, Ididn't see it.
I see it and by the time I readit I thought if I'm not
mistaken, it was like four days.
You know it was last week.
So I don't know.
Sometimes I feel like thesegovernments or these NGBs or
these organizations they say,yeah, we're doing everything by

(13:09):
the book, we have this and thiscommittee, but it's kind of, if
you know, you know, if you don'tknow, you don't know, and so
that's how they keep control andthey just build their strength.
Their strength, you know, Imean I got Herb in this position
, cj's in this position and this, but I don't know.
I just think that if you're acorporation, if you're like a

(13:29):
private corporation, you coulddo what you want.
I don't.
I mean I can't get in Apple, Ican't get in Google, just
because it's not fair.
No, I got to get in theresomehow by merit or, you know,
through a job.
But when you have these, youknow these not-for-profits, I
don't think they should be thatlocked in where you can't break
through the walls.
You know, and I think I meanI'm kind of sliding over here to

(13:54):
the athlete advisory committeeright now within the USAT they
should have been, if they're soathlete-centered, they should
have been talking about this fora long time to get quality and
people that wanted to beinvolved.
You know what I'm saying, notpeople that just met a deadline.
That's my two cents on that.

(14:16):
Herbert, I know you're big onthat too.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
Well, the way you keep power and you got to
remember this comes from back inthe old USAT days the way you
keep power is by not lettingpower be disseminated, right,
and if you don't let power bedisseminated, then you keep
owning the power.
So one of the ways is throughcontrolling information, and
there's no doubt that they'recontrolling the information.
So when you control information, especially when it comes to

(14:41):
access information, then peoplewill and will continue to do
what they always do, which isthey won't pay attention, they
won't care because they don'tfeel like they can affect change
.
Right, and it's just.
It's not a strategy that's new.
In fact, it's the originalgovernments from as far back as
rome, and during the greeks,they did not give power or voice

(15:05):
to everyone.
They give power and voice tolandowners or white men or
whatever else, and nobody elseeven knew when it was happening.
So, as a a result, theycouldn't care, nor should they
care, because they had no reasonto care.
I think you know, when it comesto the, there's no doubt that
the USAT doesn't care.
There's no doubt that the USATdoesn't want, nor does it need,

(15:29):
input from people, right?
So it wants athletes that areeither quiet or unavailable, and
you get that by not tellingpeople when the election is.
The side part of that, though,is you can also get athletes
that are interested or engagedbut may not be your best
athletes.
So by limiting it, making thetimes exclusionary, making the

(15:53):
time availability exclusionary,you get the group you want, and
I think they're getting exactlythe group, even within the group
.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Like I remember when I did um, the, the ac board, a
long time ago and we'd be alittle annoyed because you
remember, coach, we'd have to goout during training and we'd be
standing out in the lobby forlike 45 minutes, an hour, hour
and a half, some time in thetraining, you know, and then
come back in afterwards.
But like, even when I, evenwhen I was just a part of it
recently, that's not the case.
If, like, they had somethinggoing on, if they was doing a

(16:20):
training time, like we tried tomoderate it, so they were like
three times, but it always endedup with people were missing and
things like that.
Like that.
That was a tough situationoverall but, like you guys said,
it's the same thing across theboard.
Or you, like I told you beforeyou know, I mean yeah, so what?

Speaker 2 (16:37):
what about when you get people like from like that
are that are voting anddiscussing things that they have
no idea about?
So, for example, if I'mdiscussing things about poomsae,
I have no idea what goes on inpoomsae, and vice versa.
Most of the you know poomsaepeople don't know what's going
on with sparring and alsothey're saying they're talking

(16:57):
about selection procedures orperformance-based results.
You know, I'm saying they.
It's just, it's, it's weird.
You know how some of that allgoes and tj, like I'm not even
sure, do they even have meetingsin person anymore?

Speaker 1 (17:10):
um, I don't know.
I mean, every one I've done wasalways either over the phone or
on video or something like that.
I've never had a meeting inperson, um, and I think maybe
there was supposed to be one.
We're supposed to meet it likeafter some tournament or
something, but like no, notnormal for the aec um, not to
have like in-person meetings now.
And if it was, it wasdefinitely one, but everybody
wasn't there.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
If that was the case, well, that means nobody's
paying attention and what.
What you know like there's athe USOC, if it's brought to
their attention.
There has been, there's alwaysbeen historically a rule that
has to have meaningful athleteparticipation.
Not just athlete participation,but meaningful athlete
participation.
And that means that athleteshave to have access to.

(17:49):
You can't pick a time whenthey're not available.
They have to have access totiming't pick a time when
they're not available.
They have to have access totiming, information, content and
true input.
And if you don't provide that,you know, um, and there are
examples where they would dothat they would hold a meeting
when they knew an athlete wasnot just this sport, other
sports athlete was on their wayin an airplane to you know some

(18:10):
international competition.
Well, you've disenfranchisedthe athlete from the.
We actually stopped one of thereasons we got, well, the
original rebels right when theywere trying to select the
olympic coaches.
Um, for 92, we walked out.
I staged the walkout becausethey were trying to do what they
usually did and we didn't wantthose people, Hell no we won't

(18:33):
go.
And we left the meeting, atwhich point the attorney pointed
out to him you can't vote,you're missing the athlete's
vote.
So all of a sudden it comes tonegotiations Following that.
More interestingly, aftereverything was said and done and
we got the coaches we wantedfor World Cup, world
Championship and Olympics, I wasin a bathroom with john

(18:57):
holloway and as I'm standing inthere, this korean guy comes in,
a young guy out of umwashington, and he's kind of
talking to me and we had beenenjoying the night because we
had won and we were relaxing.
And this guy's like oh, I don'tlike what you did.
And I'm like, I'm looking athim and I'm like he goes, I
don't think whatever.
And I'm like oh, okay, youdon't like what I did.

(19:19):
All right, I'm okay with that.
So I don't really care.
But you know, as an athlete rep, that's my job.
Oh, I don't like you, you andhe's like this.
He's trying to intimidate me.
He's trying to do what theyused to do at national
championships They'd take otherKorean guys out into the back
and beat them up.
So I look at him and I gosounds like this is personal.

(19:40):
Are you trying to make thispersonal?
In other words, I just want tounderstand, because if it's
personal I can handle thatdifferently.
I'll punch you in the face andthen all of a oh no, I go.
Oh, I didn't think so.
So we'll just have to disagree.
Learn to disagree, we'lldisagree, we'll agree to
disagree.
So I tell Holloway whathappened.

(20:01):
So Holloway grabs me and hewants to find the guy right so
we can handle him.
But uh, this was the Koreansmethod of control.
It always was their controlback in the day.
Hence why they're not runningthe organization anymore but are
trying to run anotherorganization called Kukiwon USA.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
So it'll be interesting to see what happens
with that?
But I digress.
I got a lizard.
Get away Lizard.
I got a lizard.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
That's going to attack my lizard.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
I got a lizard.
I got a lizard.
Hey, I got a question Because Iknow you know what.
I'm going to tee this one up toyou, Mr Grandmaster Perez.
Again, they have a new form ofequipment for a new Olympic
taekwondo.
Oh Jesus, these beautifulgloves that look like um, I

(20:54):
don't know what they look like,guys.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
what do they look like they look like baby lego
hands, like the little babymittens.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
No, no this is what they put.
They put this on babies so theywon't scratch their faces when
they're young and it looks.
Let me tell you who designed it.
There was some genius in koreawho went like this oh, this will
look very nice, it'll work verywell.
They are uh grabbing too muchand too muchy, so we are going

(21:19):
to uh fix it the best way to fixit.
I bet it was young jim bond,that idiot so it was young jim
bond oh yes, the way we stopthem from grabbing is.
We take their fingers and wecover it and then they cannot
grab anything.
They cannot.
Well, there's some other thingsthey can't do.

(21:40):
They can't grab, they can'tfall and brace themselves.
They're going to break theirhand, they're literally going to
break their wrist, and thenthey can't even their headgear.
They'd be like going to the ref, excuse me, they can't.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
There's can't even their headgear.
They'd be like going to the ref.
Excuse me, there's no way thatmakes it to the seniors.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
There's no way that makes it to the seniors.
Oh, and, by the way, can youhelp me?
Yeah, I, my ass is itching andI can't itch, it can you reach
down and my, my, my cup is alittle ajar.
Let me, let me stand up anddemonstrate what needs to happen
hold on and they can't adjust,even like their but their.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Their mouthpiece goes flat out their mouth during the
match, so they got to get waterin between, like it's like so
many.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
No, they're gonna break their wrist.
You, you don't understand, likewhen you, when you fall, your
instinct from the time we weremonkeys was to put your hand,
your palm, out.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
I don't believe in evolution?

Speaker 3 (22:28):
yeah, no there's no evolution.
So this is, this is this issome guy in an office that never
did taekwondo oh, his name ischo and another guy that barely
did taekwondo and then startedteaching yang jinban.
And all these clowns trying tocome up with a way to fix a
problem.
Well, that's not the way youfix the problem.
Fix the referees and you don'tneed electronic scoring.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
You don't need gloves .

Speaker 1 (22:53):
But we're not being serious, though.
That's not going to happenright.
I haven't completely wrapped mymind around this actual idea
that made it out the lab intoproduction, wasted money making
these and tried them on thejuniors or cadets.
There's no way they make theseniors wear these.
There's no way.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
You know who made these a long time ago.
These came from karate.
There's a stage a long time agothey had these flat things and
they were made by junrioriginally and you'd put your
hand in them and the thumb wascovered.
So you couldn't get thumbinjuries and the hand was
covered.
Well, they also figured outguys were getting injured
because they couldn't do stuffthat you normally use, your.

(23:30):
I mean like, imagine you got alittle itch on your face.
Now you're like in a veryspecial way, or the girls fixing
their hair.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
How are you going to fix your hair?
Now we're going to stop and letpeople the refs are going to
have to cut their hair, and nowyou're going to have to you joke
about that.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
We look like babies and we can't scratch ourselves.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Now we're going to look like babies because, you're
going to a referee adjust theirhelmets, strap their shingles,
strap their forearm guards, tietheir belts, pick up their
mouthpieces, or the coaches haveto come in the ring, yeah, but
you know who's going to makethem do it.
I would make them do it, Iwould just make them do it for
no reason.
I'd have these jerk-off gloveson.
I'd be like, excuse me, can youhelp me?
My belt is slightly becominguntied.
The belt that I actually I don'tneed to wear for competition
because it serves no functionand it messes up the chest

(24:15):
protector.
But since you want me to wearthe antiquated belt, could you
please tie it?
And then at the same time, Ifeel like my pants are falling
down.
Could you pull those up?
And then there is a littlescratch on my knee.
Can you get that for me?
And then, wait, I can't.
You want me to adjust my helmet.
I'm trying, you know.
I mean, it's just a level of.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
I wish I would have saw some of the footage.
I didn't see any of the actualfight footage with the kids
using them, but I didn't watchit either.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
I can't find it.
I saw the little pictures andstuff.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
You want to watch something better than that,
watch the 2005 footage, 2003footage whatever it was in
Vietnam of the juniorstournament where they come to
demonstrate the first electronicsparring gear, which was
basically boots, and guys weretrying to kick and step and they
were sliding and falling.

(25:01):
It was like watching somebody,some drunk people, trying to do
taekwondo on a curling mat, youknow, in the Olympics.
It was hilarious.
I watched this and I just wentand, by the way, it hasn't
gotten much better.
It hasn't gotten much better.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Well again, I think the big point of this is once
again first of all, I don'tunderstand.
I have my problems with thescheduling, I have my problem
with rules, but when you haveequipment and stuff like this,
they think they make a solution.
But think about how, just infive minutes, we had 10 problems
.
We can't be the only geniusesin the world that think like

(25:36):
this.
So what, what are they doing?
I mean, it's the same thing forelectronics, the same thing now
with these gloves like stop italready.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
yeah, that's the weird one there comes a point in
time and this is aristotle,plato it's the republic you have
.
You serve different roles inyour life and and coach.
We've talked about this a lot.
When you're young, you're astudent, a mentor, a senior is
supposed to take care of you andteach you.
Then you become a warrior.
You serve the Republic, thenyou become a teacher and you

(26:05):
teach those that come under you.
Then you become a torchbearer,and that's when you exit the
building and you give advice ifasked.
That's what happens.
These guys still have forgottenthe role they're supposed to be.
You got the wt is full of guysolder than me, less experienced
than me and no experience intaekwondo.

(26:26):
And then they're.
They're.
They're positing solutions whenthey have no knowledge of the
problem.
They didn't.
They've never been in a ringwhere they've had to fix their
headgear.
They're sitting there going oh,this is horrible.
These guys are grabbing.
How do we stop them fromgrabbing?
We tried to do this, we triedto do that.
Oh, let's put mittens on.
Let's put well, let's do, let'sdo better.

(26:55):
Let's put electronic shockingcollars on them so that if they
grab, they get shocked.
They're treating athletes likedogs.
They're too stupid not to grab,so let's put mittens on them.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
That's silly.
You said something.
Let me ask you quick.
You said something about thebelt.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
You would take the belt out of competitions the
belt.
When I trained, the only reasonI wore a belt close to training
was what I get used to feelinga belt under me.
Then, when I finally discovered, like the koreans, a single
route rap belt it was better.
Let's say three things that aretrue.
One, the uniform serves nofunction.
Two, the belt serves nofunction.
Three, the chest protectoritself now it's scoring a

(27:32):
function.
Serving a function for scoringserves no function.
Three, the chest protectoritself now it's scoring a
function, serving a function forscoring serves no function.
You could put people insomething they were more
comfortable wearing forcompetition and you could exit
the belt because it doesn't whatyou're being so contradictory
right now, man, because you'rethe one that doesn't like the

(27:53):
new fucking uniforms.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
That's what I was asking.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
I don't here it comes back now.
You've put your foot deeply inyour mouth and let me pull it
out for you for a little minute.
I don't like the uniform now.
All they did was take thecurrent uniform and decide to
retool it to make it.
I don't like the uniform Now.
All they did was take thecurrent uniform and decide to
retool it to make it better andthe incarnations of that and in

(28:19):
their mind.
Better means how do we keep theform and function of the old
one, so it looks like ataekwondo uniform, and make it
better?
That's not the right answer.
We've talked about this foryears.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
I'm so offended that you wouldn't wear your black
belt.
I'm so offended that you wouldcompete without your black belt.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
I have a ninth on black belt.
I don't wear it anymore.
I put it on my head.
I use it as a tablecloth.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
What would you want to wear?
So here's what I'll ask.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
No, I'll get better for you.
When you play any sport and Iwant you to think about the
sport.
The uniform, the outfit isusually, with the exception of
women's sports, which were madefor men.
The uniform is form, specificfor the sport.
Take track and field.
Track and field finds the thingthat makes them faster and

(29:08):
better.
Swimming what makes them fasterand better.
Any sport that's got acomponent.
That's performance.
If you can sit here and tell methat taekwondo's uniform is
performance enhancing, then yougot me.
No, it's a relic of the pastthat tries to honor something
which was created by thejapanese.
The original taekwondo uniformand the chest protector came

(29:32):
from Kendo.
Kendo is the chest protector,the uniform came from Karate and
they keep trying to keepholding on to the belt from
Karate and the uniform fromKarate.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
All right, hold on.
I accept.
I don't know.
Okay, I'll listen, I'll listen.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Do not question why grasshopper.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Take the pebble from my hand.
That was pretty good.
Let me get the pebble.
Grab the pebble.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
Grab it, grab it, it's still here.
Another 10 years Wait.
Look at this flying psychic.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
First of all, you should burn that cloud.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Those are some of my favorite shingars.
Those macho white ones, thosewere cool when they macho, made
the best stuff and, by the way,techno.

Speaker 3 (30:18):
May he rest in peace.
Had some great, all right I'mgonna give you a blast from hold
on.
Here's a blast from the past.
You know what this stairway isstairway to heaven basically,
this was the stairway that ledup to taekwondo.
Had I not walked up thisstairway, I would not be here
with the two of you.
This was the long walk that allright, that wasn't.
That was in new york, no thatpart that was actually in jersey

(30:40):
.
There's a great podcast of markwilliams that he just did with
this guy who's jose lupo, wherehe talks about his journey with
my instructor as well, and it'sreally but anyway I'll give you
one last thing yeah, I went to.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Um, we went to new york when I was younger uh,
master's first school, kind oflike.
They hit these long stairs thatwent up to the top.
So it kind of looks that's whatthose stairs look like to me.
So that's why I asked new yorkyou know why most of us were.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
You know, hold on, hold on.
You know why most of us were onsecond floors the rent was
cheaper, of course before Icourse there's no other reason.
All right Before I go to rip.
Mr.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Perez I got to give him.
I forgot I was there in themoment, in the sacred moment of
the Prince family, oh man.
I felt like I intruded.
I want to say congratulations.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
All right, here it comes.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Here it comes the son committed, was offered, and
committed to Cornell Universityand committed to Cornell
University to play soccer.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
Oh my gosh, what a great academic future for him
and what a great soccer.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
What an amazing journey.
I was on the couch and I wascrying.
So I just saw their family, Iheard the message, I heard the
coach.
I can't believe it.
It was amazing.
So congratulations, that'sawesome.
I'm happy for you.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Well, I've been making you all sick with my
dream of my son being able toplay soccer somewhere.
That mattered and it's actuallya good story, because this is
the difference between coachingand I'm with two great coaches
here.
We were fortunate enough thathe was a decent player and he
got a lot of looks from a lot ofplaces and we had great schools

(32:14):
, literally amazing schools, andit's tough to be patient.
We waited as best as we couldand we ended up with two great
schools, really good schools,and the difference between the
two schools was what the coachsaid.
When we met with the coach, andwhat he said and how he looked
at my athlete, my son, and whathe said to him and then what he

(32:36):
expected from him and what hesaw in him and his potential in
the future is what resonatedwith me and this is why I remind
us as coaches, when you look atthe athlete, coach Moreno and I
and all of us worked on thisathlete first coach, second
performance, first result,second Right, and if you can
remember that, then everythingworks out.

(32:57):
And this coach saw the potentialof Nico, not what he needed
Nico for in his program, but thepotential of Nico as a future
athlete.
And then you know, he saw thathe said if I can reach into his
heart, that's what I want.
He said if I can reach into hisheart, that's what I want.
And so, without saying too muchmore about it, the reason we
chose that program besides itbeing a number one two program

(33:24):
in the Ivy Leagues and puttingkids on the pro team, and there
was another program, looking athim, that came first and it was
a great program and it was in areally great city and big city
and a pack 10 school and thecoach said big 10 and he said
we'd like to.
You know, we, we and they,really we went out there, saw
the facilities were great,everything was great, and the

(33:44):
difference was what the coachsaid.
And when the coach, coachMoreno, was there, I was crying
like he said what he said andNico's there and Nico said what
he said and then coach says well, how would you like to be here,
you know, and Nico's just likeI'm like Nico and he's just kind
of crying you know so it was.
I was so proud that I couldshare that with coach Moreno,
because we have been in thosemoments where you make some a

(34:07):
part of your dream happen andyour first right like you when
you made the Olympic team andwhen I made the Olympic team and
TJ when you made the Olympicteam.
That's life memories, man, youcan't.
That's just a step by the way,because now you got to go do
your job, right?
But you know, at least you'rein the room.
So, yeah, thanks for mentioning.
But I wanted to share thatabout the coach because for us

(34:30):
that was the difference.
You coach, because for us thatwas the difference um you know
the university's hard to get toright.
It's like yes, it's, you knowit's a bus, a train, whatever
you want to get to.
But thanks for the kind wordsbut back to the.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Let me get back to you.
Okay.
So time out, time out.
So, mr traditional over therethat like let me get up you know
that likes to fight and lovesall the old stuff and again, I
love it too.
But I'm going to sit there andsay that when it comes to the
uniform, the uniform, the newuniform, is performance enhanced

(35:05):
.
When they went to remember TJ,when they first went to the
lighter Adidas material, youknow, go back to when adidas
first came and prospect came.
Those were better uniforms.
And now you know they madethose climate cool ones that
were better when you fought tj.
And now they got these.
I don't particularly like allthe form fitting but in your
going on your thing, herb theyare.

(35:27):
They do make you faster, youare.
They're like tights.
You kick faster in tights thanyou do in pajamas.
Oh my gosh, p Diddy, that's theuniform I want to see.
I want to see this uniform Comeon, but that's irrealistic,
that's not going to happen.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Who is this handsome?

Speaker 2 (35:42):
boy, who is that?
What Do you want to see?
Some 6'3", 58-kilo guys thatlook like twins?

Speaker 3 (35:50):
No, I want uniforms.
What I would say is this Letthe uniform be the twigs.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
You remember that one ?
I forget what.
It was one of the big eventsWorld Championships or Grand
Prix where they modeled thewhite short t-shirt, the shorts,
the tights that went with it.
It was supposed to be like thenew sports uniform and then
people went crazy and then weended up with the.
Then we to like the uniforms,but stretchy ones.
I wouldn't have minded theshorts and the t-shirt thing.

(36:15):
Like for me it's I'm on when itcomes to that.
It wouldn't have drove me crazy.
If you want to put a belt on,put a belt on, but like that
would be.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
That's how we train that's how we work out, you know
I just I well it is, but Iguess I'm going on the.
I'm going on the modern or thetraditional side.
Now, for all the people thatfight that were wearing red
uniforms and we got monkey punchand monkey kicks.
Now you want to wear that goldsilly-looking pajama suit back
there?
Nah.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
That's performance enhancing.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
I'm going to tell you real fast.
In 2016, we were at the Olympiccoaches' training camp that we
had to do before the Olympicsand they asked me to speak in
front of Dr Cho.
This is when they first startedDr who, whatever, dr Cho, cho,
cho Cho.
Then, when they talked aboutthe uniform colors and I was
like, and there was all theserule change stuff, and I just I

(37:07):
looked, and I remember lookingat the technical director at the
time and I'm like you know whatI'm going to do.
You know I'm not going to holdmy tongue and I just said kind
of in a summary, I saidTaekwondo has to have an
identity.
Boxers, box wrestlers, wrestles,judo players play judo and if
you ask a judo player, wrestleror boxer from 50 years ago, they
know exactly what's happeningright now.

(37:27):
But in Taekwondo we don't havean identity.
One minute we have five kicksand we have four kicks.
Then we have come johns, thenwe don't have come johns, you
can't fall.
You can't fall.
And now you think that puttinga uniform, changing blue, red or
green uniform, pants is goingto make a difference.
What's our identity?
What's is our identity?
Fish kicks and monkey kicks andand sloppy punches?

(37:49):
Maybe it is, but we we have tohave some kind of consistency.
So I will go to a traditional,pure standpoint right now and
say Taekwondo had this, and thenthey had the V-neck, and now we
have the heavy cotton, and thenwe had Taekwondo.
Oh my gosh, what is that?

Speaker 3 (38:13):
We'll take it to our women.
This is Borax Thong.
This is the uniform.
I thought that was you, that'syou, that's you.
I don't have that much hair onmy chest.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
You shaved it off.
Man, I've seen you have hairlike that, that's you?

Speaker 1 (38:26):
That's crazy.
I get it.
I don't know, I don't know, Idon't know.
I don't have a problem withthat.
Calm down, boys, calm down Iremember the progression you
were talking about, like whereit went from, like the heavier
to the lighter.
Then they had the ones that hadthe net on the back, so you
know, dried faster, blah, blah,blah.
All those things, it allhappened.

(38:47):
I like the net.
I like the net too, and it feltI like that it was still a
great question.
I don't know.
I think I would always wear thebelt.
I don't care.
My point was the belt.
I don't care what you do, Idon't think you can lose the
belt.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yeah, I think you have to.
I think you have to have thebelt because it's just judo,
jiu-jitsu, I don't know.
I think you have to have that.
People like you and me, we, weargue that the it's a sport, but
if we take it too much sportthen then we're not balling,
we're not, we're calling hey,what's up herb, what's up tj?
We we've we've had podcastswhere we've kind of said that's

(39:20):
not correct, let's keep sometradition, let's keep some honor
, let's keep some respect.
So I think, with the uniform, Ithink you have to keep the belt
, tj.
I thought like I'm going to goto versions of the climate cool
with a little.
I thought that was fine.
I I'm not a huge fan of thesetight things, but why did they
got a little bit better go?

Speaker 1 (39:39):
to the tights because they wanted to.
Um, it was so you could seewhen people were holding, or
they wanted the pants to belight, like what was the
original complaint?
Why what was?
Yeah, yeah it was.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
It started out as a big penis thing.
They wanted they went to thetights because there were all
these rumors and they wanted tomake the rumors true or not.
So they basically said, put thetights on and we'll see what's
underneath.
That's it.
You know we're always saying wehave the biggest cojones.
They wanted to know whether itwas true or not.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
But I remember the girls went crazy.
The girls went crazy becausethey're saying like, come on,
this, this is gonna lookhorrible on some of us, whether
we're too skinny or too heavy.
The guys are like, come on, Imean it, it didn't look right,
man.
So that thing about like, likethe muto one, the uh, the tusa
one, I think that this is aboutthe tightest fitting one, but I

(40:26):
I think you can have this dryfitting material or whatever,
whatever it is, and kind of formfitting.
I think it's fine.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
That never bothered me.
Like just pack two uniformpants, get your pants, whatever
first was and have your secondpair in there for the semis and
final.
Let's go, you know.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Oh, mr Tradition over here.
Look at Mr Tradition wearingthe the.
I don't even want to say a badBefore we go any further.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
I have to tell everybody the news.
I don't think he's released ityet, but we now are joined.
We have another ninth Donamongst the Americans.
I think he's number eight inthe world.
He lives in Korea Steve Kaepner.
Dr Steve Kaepner, doubledoctorate, double doctor, steve
Kaepner, who's recently retiredfrom university, has received

(41:14):
his ninth don, so he's now akooky.
One.
Ninth on, he joins the realmsof all of us who have done it.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
I look forward to to you, two young men doing it as
well never doing that where youcan wrap your belt around and,
uh, you can do your dance mychoreo is still around and you
can do your dance, my choreo isstill like this Straight like
that.
But the so let me ask you, letme let me.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
Let me ask you a question where this all comes
from Everybody walking says itsucks.
No, no, let me give you, let megive you, let me give you a
question, right, and thequestion becomes oh, look at
this handsome devil.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
So, so let me give you.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
Let me, let me give you.
Let me, let me ask yourquestion.
I'll go back to the picture youlike.
So, in any anything thatrequires performance, you're
going to battle.
You're you're a, uh, warriorgoing to battle.
What do you put on?
No, no, tj, you were, you werea warrior, you were, you were in

(42:10):
the army.
What do you put on if you gointo battle?
You put on a traditionaluniform from the Civil War.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
No, but that's not the same.
That's not the same.
I don't think that's the same.

Speaker 3 (42:20):
No, it's the same.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
It's the same.
Well, yes, but no.
But I understand what you'retrying to say, what I don't
think.
So we're talking about Tecompared to, like, army, army
fatigues, and you know I mean,and those changed over time too,
those guys, those got heavier,heavier and lighter as well.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
Look at, look at Nico .
This is Juan Moreno's team intoMiami Watch.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Juan taking the school all the into Miami guys
Go one.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
we did, actually we beat them, tell me they won no,
no, we beat them in.
We beat them in last year atthe uh next fest this year?
Yeah because we got to playthem again in a few weeks go
ahead.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
I was just saying I mean, and those changes, they've
gotten lighter, they've gottenyou know, they change colors
depending on the climate that ifthere's a war being fought and
those change consistent across.
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying as far as thebelt, how is it?

Speaker 3 (43:11):
different.
What do you mean?
How's it different?
Do you guys wear it?
What do you wear from a?
What do you wear in an armytactical uniform?
That's tradition and doesn'tserve purpose.
Form of a function.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
I mean, I get your point, but like I get your point
.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
So what they're wearing right now is perfectly
functional it's functional it,may I?

Speaker 3 (43:32):
I okay, I gotta, here's, the here's, the here's
the first warehouse prize.
Any athlete, nobody wants ourprizes to the podcast, or coach
can tell us and that listens tothis what their thoughts are on
this.
Do they think that they shouldbe?
Should they?
Oh my god, look at nico,looking over my shoulder,

(43:53):
smiling with a smug look.
Should they be looking?
Should ask them?
Ask the athletes if you had achoice of what you could wear
during fighting, what would youwear?
What would you feel like?

Speaker 2 (44:06):
I think about that.
It's like what I would wear isdifferent what you would wear.
You said you would like to weartights.
I don't wear tights.
I'm too skinny.
Okay, I like wearing basketballshorts because I feel like I
can move.
I don't like to wear so, butyou can't just have anything.
You have no kind of uniform.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
It goes back to me.
All I'm saying is go back tofigure out what's performance
enhancing?
I'm not saying and like was thewrong word I it would be.
What do you think would beperformance enhancing?
That's a better word, I agreewhat do you think?

Speaker 1 (44:36):
I mean, you never asked what do you think like
what?
What would you?
What would the uniform otherthan the belt?
Let's say, the belt's a option,but what would the uniform be
like?
I?

Speaker 3 (44:43):
don't like this is.
This is dr capner and Isparring back in one of my camps
with juan more's in thispicture too.
I don't want to bring up thismemory, cause he broke his hand
in this one, but uh, you did.
This is an old, old school theum.
Look what I'm wearing, though.
So let's look at what I'mwearing.
I'm wearing a t-shirt.
I'm wearing safety equipment.

(45:03):
I've got my pants up over my uhuh calves, because my calves
are muscle and I don't likeanything pulling on my knees so
we did that, because y'all didthat, we thought it was cool.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
It wasn't.
I didn't really think, like welift our pants up because
everybody before us lifted theirpants up and it wasn't above
your calf, this would beperforming this is.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
This is performance enhancing for me and I think, um
, I think you look at that andthis is performance enhancing,
I've got I've got shin and armguards on and, by the way, this
would look good if you came outwith shin and arm guards that
looked and felt good andfunctioned, and those would be
fine.
The headgear is on.
I'm not saying a t-shirt, butI'm saying that the this idea

(45:45):
that the shirt has any function.
And you will notice I'm notwearing a chest protector
because, given an option, Iwouldn't wear a chest protector.
Who is that handsome guy?
You see that face, coach.
Look how good you still lookthe same.
But hold on a second, let mesee what you're wearing.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
I'm wearing sweats and a t-shirt.
Yeah, because you're skinny.
But we all dress like that andpeople still do dress like that.
They still do.
It's comfortable.
So what I'm just saying is thecurrent uniform.
Again, I don't particularlylike the tight, tight ones, but
I think the form-fitting ones,the material, it slides up your
knee, it's very light, it's verycomfortable.

(46:27):
I mean I like putting my shinguards on the outside so I can
fix them easier, blah, blah,blah.
I don't think it's that bad.
I don't think they got that allwrong.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
To be honest with you , I don't think it's that bad.
I think that's probably a good.
I mean, that's a good way tosay it.
But what I will say is Gettingback to the gloves.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
I think no.
Again.
This whole thing started wasthe gloves create our.
If that's what they're going touse, they're going to create
more problems, just like theelectronic chest protectors did,
just like the uniforms.
I mean we just keep spiralingdown, but these gloves I mean.
I love KP&P.
I really think KP&P is the bestproduct out right now.
But that's a bad, that's aswing and a miss right there,

(47:12):
man, I don't think it'll make itto the seniors, though I don't
even know.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Like I said, I wish I saw the footage and I'm hoping
it wasn't just a demo match thateveryone's talking about, but
they posted it like they wereproud of these gloves.
It was like a WT post orsomething like that.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
What about the new form?
Have you seen the new KP&P?
It's kind of got like muscleson it.
It's kind of got like I likethat.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
I like that.
I like that one, because yourarms go, it doesn't go over your
head, and I think it's more.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Well, if K, if KP&P is listening, my, my club just
purchased the other version,whatever it's called, dato,
because that's what everybody'susing their product.
I'm more than ready to try twoof their chest protectors.
Send me two chest protectors,I'll give them a shot.
Send me muscles because I needmuscles, so I'm good to go with

(47:56):
muscles, but send me somemuscles for my chest and uh,
which I've always struggled withI like the back.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
I like the back because it doesn't.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
This is a picture this is a picture of dr cape.
They're pushing the boulderduring his ninth I can't see
anything.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
You can't see it I'm not ninth contest.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
I can't see anything.
You can't see it.
Yeah, I'm off to the side.
I'm off to the side.
You can't see it, yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
He's over here on the .
He's over here.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
I'm squishing your head.
I'm squishing your head.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
So he can.
Yeah, I'm so happy for him.
I don't disagree.
I mean, there's a place fortradition in everything we do.
But I think there's a time forevolution and I obviously think
there's a time for revolution.
So if the world wants to fixtaekwondo, it needs to evolve
from its original ideas on whatscoring was should be and what

(48:42):
the martial arts should be, andit should have reverse
engineered back to that.
It's time for a revolutionbecause it's clear that the
current leadership is incapable,unwilling or not bright enough
to do it, and either of thosethree are not acceptable.
So we need an evolution and weneed a revolution.
So what we don't need iscapitulation and cooperation,

(49:04):
because that obviously hasn'tworked.
That's a lot of words, dude.
I'm not even done because.
Let me get to the Kukiwon USA.
Talk about capitulation takinga U-turn on a dead end.
You know Kukiwon USA?
I mean that cracks me up.
You know seventh and sixthdegree kids of grand masters

(49:25):
running organizations?
I mean these are guys.
I wouldn't let them carry mybag when I was training.
These are guys I never even sawin a gym when we were doing
taekwondo.
And now they want to certifythe instructors in this country
because their dads did taekwondo.
And, by the way, their dadsdidn't do taekwondo, except for
one that I can think of, andhe's not a ninth degree.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Let me ask you something about this, and maybe,
tj, you chime in, chime in too,because I know we kind of bag
on that.
But what about, like, even in,like again, organizations and
stuff like that, whether it'susat, au, you know, wt, patu,
like there's some sense that youyou talked about those, those
levels of people that they, youknow, you you start out as a
student, they become a warrior,blah, blah, blah.

(50:09):
But like, how do you guys feelabout, like people that just
rise up so fast, you know, justbecause their father is somebody
or because they've been in theright place, and all of a sudden
they're running organizationsLike, isn't that?
Like a?
It's just, it's strange to me,and I'm not, honestly, I'm not
one of these old guys like.
It's strange to me and honestly,I'm not one of these old guys

(50:31):
like, oh, I've been here for 30years, it should be my turn.
I don't agree with that either.
If somebody has it, whetherthey're young or old, they
should be able to lead like anysports team or any corporation.
I just feel like there's a lotof people recently I mean, we
talked about this with our USATech one a guy who goes from
media to CEO.
It just seems a little bitstrange, and that's just me

(50:52):
being directly honest.
I have no problem saying thatto anybody that wants to listen
to me.
But talking about Cookie Juan,talking about Patu, talking
about WG, talking about AAU,it's a weird time that people
are just going from nothing tosomething I don't know.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
Go ahead TJ.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
I mean, it's the backdoor deals, it's the you
know the things.
I do this, you do this, we dothis, we all do this together,
and then it's all the same shiton repeat, over and over and
over again.
It's crazy to me, Cause I meanthat goes back to what's the
word you like to use thenepotism, the nepotistic
nepotism like or you know, and Iagree with you when you said

(51:32):
that coach randall ball, likeyou know it's.
I've been here for a long time,so it should be my turn.
But when you're, when you're onthe trail and you're paving the
way and you're doing things andchanging things and organizing
things and literally doingthings above people's pay grades
, that they don't evenunderstand how you got there
from where they're standing,that's when I start to have an
issue.
That's when I have like I get alittle crazy because it's like
now we're literally justchoosing whoever we want.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
At that point, like always and like normal, I heard,
I heard a podcast and this guysaid something like someone that
was pretty successful, somebodythat he listens to, said you're
going to be in trouble prettysoon.
And he's like what are youtalking about?
He's like and this guy's likekind of uh, uh, kind of
philosophical, you of philosophykind of guy.
And he said, because you livein an old garden, he's like you

(52:14):
have your friends around you,you guys are having fun, you are
successful, you've achievedthings, you help people and you
want to be loved, you like toenjoy life.
But people see that and theyget afraid because they can't

(52:36):
get in.
So what do they do?
They throw rocks.
What do they do?
They make backdoor deals.
What do they do?
They try to do anything tocircumvent you, even though what
you're doing is right, so thatthey can kind of have this power
undeservingly.
And I thought about that.
I'm like that's kind of amicrocosm of what happens in our
sport, like in Taekwondo.
You have these people that dothese things and get to these

(52:57):
positions.
I mean I don't want to beat itto the horse, because we talked
about that with coachingpositions and coaching.
What do you call it?
The nepotism of just trying tohelp my friend.
I mean it's sad, I don't know.
Some of that stuff, you know,makes me a little bit frustrated
and yeah, I don't know A littlebit crazy, a little bit crazy.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
So we go back.
We've had this conversation indifferent ways.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Sorry, break it back up.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
For different reasons , and so you've got to ask
yourself and it really is simple, what it is is should you be
and this is a problem ineverything from politics to
everything else Should the bestpeople be running organizations
meaning a meritocracy, proveyou're the best, and if you are
the best, then you should.

(53:45):
Or should the one who's willingto stay in the room and do the
backdoor deals be the onerunning the organization?
And too often the people thatare bright, they just say I'm
done, I, I can't get anythingdone here.
Um, and I can think of acurrent change in one of these
organizations recently, wherethe a guy who was good for the

(54:05):
organization was running it well, did all this.
He left the room because hesaid I don't need this, I got
better things to do with my life, and so you know, you end up
with that I.
I, I'm a meritocracy guy.
Let the best person lead.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
I don't care where they're from, I don't care who
they are, I don't care whattheir nationality is, I don't
care what their accent is butshouldn't you have to have been
proven that you can do the jobthat you're accepting, or do the
thing like you know?

Speaker 3 (54:29):
that's the best, that's the best person.
You're saying the same thing.
I'm saying I'm saying the bestperson.
And how do you get the bestperson?
They come with a track record.
You don't just say that that'sthe point.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
That's the bottom line.
That's what I'm saying.
Like it, this doesn't make anysense If they've never a lot of
times they've never done itbefore.
Physicians and learning how todo things while other people
actually know how to do themalready or have done them
already or been successful indoing them already.
It makes no sense to me or orsome kind of track.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
I heard that's a great right there track record.
And tj, we talked about thisbefore kind of privately.
I was talking to one of myathletes.
If someone I said I saidthere's a lot of coaches and I
was I was giving him examples.
In his little, his smalllifespan, I'm like have people
have been popular and everyonewas talking about them.

(55:16):
I'm like where are they atright now?
Because their track record wasa short time.
There's a lot of people that canmake an Olympic champion or a
world champion or national teammembers in a short time.
But like that doesn'tnecessarily mean that you
haven't figured it out.
It means you're good right now.
Maybe it means you have a goodfreaking athlete right now.
Maybe you have somebody special, but some of a director has

(55:38):
been able to do this over yearsand successful over a number of
years.
That's the track record andthat's who you go to bat with.
So it's meritocracy with thetrack record, because if it's
just meritocracy, someone thathas a little success goes.
I did it, yeah, you did it oncewith so-and-so.
We can compare results all daylong.

(55:58):
Because I mean TJ, how manytimes do we go to Opens and
people get on the stand and theyhad a vibe, they had a fight.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
That's now.
That's definitely hardcore now,you know, and then we put up a
picture, know, and then we putup a picture and then we put up
a picture of third place.
Look at this.
The picture under is crazy, butyep, that's kind of funny
underneath this is just so wecan be clear.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
This was the usa team coach at a world event and this
was his thank you to the publicand the international players.
And then, underneath, um he was.
He's characterized himself assan diego yeah, anyway, good,
good on you, good on you bangersand mash.

(56:45):
But, um, let me get him off myscreen because it makes me sick.
But, um, meritocracy, coaches,is exactly that.
What I'm saying is you need ameritocracy in the sense that
you define what that means.
So in coaching, right incoaching, you say no, it's not
enough.
Because, yeah, we all know,like I watch all these posts

(57:06):
from guys oh, I developed anOlympian.
No, you had an Olympian.
No, you had an Olympian.
An Olympian came in your schooland trained with you in raw
form and somehow made it throughthe process to go to the
Olympics.
Do you have 12?
Do you have two?
Do you have one?
And they're called one-offs.
We had a rule on the US team andit was the first time you win,

(57:27):
it's an accident.
Second time you win, it's anaccident.
Second time you win, it's alegacy, maybe a destiny.
Third time you win, that's alegacy.
That's when you're you matter.
You've proven you can do itthree times.
Once is an accident, twiceyou're a team member three times
.
Now you matter.
And the people that have beenon the us team, you know what

(57:47):
I'm talking about, because a guycame in the first year.
A girl came in the first yearis like, yeah, you got here and
I know how some of them made itthere.
They got lucky.
They're on the right side ofthe draw.
Somebody else got hurt,whatever, especially back when
we were fighting.
Now you get there two or threedifferent ways.
We're fortunate, all of us.
I've been through no less thanfour or five team trial

(58:08):
procedures.
I fought in no less than eightdifferent types of
qualifications at a worldchampionship One day, two days,
three days match, this matchthat I fought at nationals, when
you fought at eight in themorning till 12 o'clock, and
then you fought again at 12o'clock at night and have to
fight the next day.
You got to wait that long andthere were a hundred guys in a

(58:30):
division and it was, you know,two-day event.
Right, I fought in seven-dayevents.
Now, once you do that andyou've proven yourself and this
is where you got to give stephenlopez some credit he fought
just like most of us.
He fought an even morequalification process with
electronics, without electronics, you know.
So I you know he's got a lot.

(58:51):
It's crazy how important notgetting injured was back then
too.
Process with electronics,without electronics.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
He's got a lot of other problems.
It's crazy how important notgetting injured was.
Back then too, that was a partof the game.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
You had to be durable .

Speaker 1 (58:59):
That's the word.
You had to be durable, to fightas many matches that day and to
fight at that physical levelall day, and the competition
level it's a whole differentbeast.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Now you want to see a chest protector.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
This is how you wear a chest protector.
Why is it so little?

Speaker 3 (59:12):
Notice where the belt is.
I got my belt on.
Why is it so little?

Speaker 2 (59:15):
though, actually check this out.
Doug Baker came to one of myseminars in Chicago and he did
it.
He did the seminar.
Good for him.
I was like he did the wholeseminar.
He's like let me run, let mekick.
He's like he did the wholeseminar.
He's like, oh, let me run, letme kick.
He's like I got to learn how todo this shit.
I got to learn how to figurethis out so I can coach it.
I'm like dude.

(59:36):
I give him a lot of credit.
He was awesome, awesome,awesome, awesome.
Shout out to my man, doug Baker.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
But he says some dumb stuff on the internet.
Him as a fighter, but Idefriended him because he says
he's offended so many peoplethat I know on the internet
about his thoughts.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
I don't unfriend anybody, but there's a couple.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Oh, I unfriended him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
I know we have some different people on different
political sides and stuff likethat.
But, man, I tell you what.
There's some people out therethat say some crazy things.
I'm going to send both you guysthings privately.
We can talk about next week aguy that wrote something or said
something 30 years ago beforesocial media.
I want you to hear him talkingabout left and right and
different things.
Oh my gosh, it's unbelievable.
It's so good.

(01:00:20):
I'm gonna send it to you guysafter this you'll love it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
This guy this was the copa of the america that I then
I went down to.
You know we're messing allthese was playing.
This guy had a pair ofTaekwondo pants on.
I don't think you can read it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Oh, you can't see them.
Oh yeah, it says that's the Fword.
Fucking awesome.
What's the other?
I can't see, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
The pants had a patch on it and that's what they read
on them.
He was standing right in frontof me game that was the culprit
of america, yeah, where I almostgot killed by every yeah, every
colombian they were.
Look, oh my god, it wasridiculous that's why they broke
into the stadium and stuff yeah, I took my life in my hands

(01:01:01):
going to that event, but what agreat event for my son to view
right.
So maybe one day he'll get he'llget to do better than the um
the current American team isdoing.
We'll see.
I mean, I think we've opened upsome can of worms and we still
have yet.
I know you guys are reluctantto do it, but I think we have to
come up with some solutions,like on the uniform.

(01:01:22):
Believe it or not, I'm actuallyworking on a version of a
uniform now.
Um, and it's not necessarily um, it's not for competition, it's
just like to take.
I'm making the same mistake.
I'm taking the current idea ofa uniform and trying to make it
better, and I don't think that'sthe right way to do it, but I'm
at least trying.
Right, um, calm down, peoplecome now.

(01:01:45):
Now, don't, don't look, don'tlook.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
I'm going to cover my DJ, I was going to say
something about the gloves againreal fast.
So that glove is horrible.
I don't think you need gloves.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
No, you don't need gloves.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
No, we don't need gloves.
No, you don't need gloves.
First of all, you don't needgloves because none of these
guys can punch.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
They punch like girls in a schoolyard.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
Hey, when I came back , but that's the referee's fault
too.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
I watch these guys.
There's a coach out ofCalifornia his dad used to be a
competitor and I watch him putup these ridiculous videos where
the guys are and he's teachingthem to punch like this.
And I'm like I wish he wouldpunch me like that, please punch
me like that.
And I'm like watching this guy.
This is what he's putting up onthe internet.
I don't want to mention hisname, he's out of california and

(01:02:35):
I'm not going to mention itbegins with a v and he's like ah
, and I'm like you're teachingthis.
This is what you're teachinglike.
Have some respect for the artyour dad did at a high level and
have some respect for thecountry you come from.
And teach them how to punchright then teach them how to
score, you know, whatever youthink.
An idea of a punch, becauseright now referees are scoring

(01:02:56):
the idea of the punch right, soyou got to show them.
Here it is.
It's coming from way back here,just like in a movie.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Watch it, here it comes, and then I'm going to do
it like this, so it'll make asound instead of this well,
funny thing, ironic thing youngis like people key up only when
they punch now, because that'sthe one thing that the ref can
do, and I would keep on the kick.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
But here's the thing I've been punched by people that
can punch, like naeem hassan,he could punch like.
He punched me in my chest.
I wanted to cry and die, right,this guy was an amazing puncher
, right.
So like you, you know, likethese guys can't I I'd stand in
a line, I'd line them all up andlet them punch me and I just

(01:03:39):
let I, just without a chestprotector.
Uh, you know, I'd let them backkick me.
To be honest, without a chestprotector, these guys can't back
.
I don't know.
I watch these drills.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
If you're holding one of those little shields.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
You're holding one of those little shields.
You're holding one of thoselittle sissy shields and you're
back kicking.
Take a walk.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
That's because they've made it all about foot
placement and all this stuff.
I don't know For me.
I'm just letting you know whyit sucks.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
Hook, kick to the body.
You guys come here.
Next time you come, try to hook, kick me in the body.
I'm gonna score please put uptwo points.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Oh, no, no, oh, you're gonna score, I'm gonna
break your ass I'm gonna kickyou.

Speaker 3 (01:04:13):
As soon as you, as soon as you try to hook, kick me
to the body, I'm gonna breakyour ass, I'm.
You might have two points onthe board, but I'm gonna have
two points on your ass, just soyou know um I got, I got
something for your hook.
There we go.
This is what you're gonna looklike after it right there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
For me, I would take punches away altogether.
I hate how they are a part ofthe game Like very seldom.
I'm like man.
That guy deserved that punchpoint, Not about it being good
or bad, Just like it.
Just.
I don't know the inconsistency,You'll see the big punch score.
That was the original career.
You got to talk to Dr Cape, theninth degree.

(01:04:52):
Dr Cape, Everybody talks aboutthe coaches.
It's just some score, somedon't, some do some yes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
The Koreans purposely took punching out because they
didn't want it to look likekarate.
So the original idea was youtake punching out.
Back in the day, and then ontop of it they put on a kendo
armor, which was bamboo, becausewe were so deadly that you know
you couldn't survive a kick.
But then you watch the uh, theuh, ufc and obviously that's not

(01:05:17):
true I do wait I yeah, hey, butyou know, what?

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
uh uh, it's funny because you watch para.
Take one, because I actuallyworked with para um and you
think about that that you canpunch that don't score a point
and it's just fine.
It's just fine you watch parathose, but what's the?

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
logic in that?
Because of the like.
What's the logic in that?

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
like you can punch, but it doesn't score because
some people have arms and somepeople don't I mean, some people
have longer like again don'tget me started with para.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
It's like a little for me.
It's like I've watched eventswhere you see like someone with
no arms you know what I mean andyou see like someone with like
full arms but like I don't know.
I know there's like what dothey call them?
Classifications and all thatstuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
I am not.
I am not biting on this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
But if someone can't punch, then both people
shouldn't be able to punch yeah,so like that's why they're
taking out, that's why they'retaking it away from a point I
hate punching all together I eatmy orange I hate, I hate the

(01:06:23):
punching all together I likepunching, but they don't score
it rightyeah, but I like kicking and
they don't score it right.
I like spinning, but they don'tscore right.
So go back to where we were in1995, you know.
I mean, I like kicking andpunching, but if referees knew
how to score real points theycould.
We wouldn't be here, but.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
I'm going to give you , I'm going to give you
something which I recognized along time ago Nineteen two
thousand twenty five is as faraway from 1985 as 1985 is from
1945.
So just to put in perspective,so when I talk about 85, 86, 87,

(01:07:05):
even 92, you know, imagine,imagine like somebody talking to
you, about with you, back inthe day, and you're like in 1945
, you know I mean.
So, like you know, we gotta, Igot, I gotta go with the flow
and let 40 years be 40 years ago.
But I go back to the one thingthat I'll say to both of you has
the technical regimen, has thetechnical arsenal, has the

(01:07:27):
paradigm elevated or digressed?
That's it, and that's why we'rein a kerfuffle again.
There we go.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
We're definitely in a kerfuffle, yeah.
But I mean, again, that'sdebatable.
Young, me and you both agree ona certain fighting and the
explosion and the toughness andthe meanness and the timing and
the subtleties of the sport.
But these kids can kick, theycan run, they can fast kick,
they can double, they can spin,they can back hook.

(01:07:57):
They can not a bun.
They can fast kick, they candouble, they can spin, they can
back hook, kick.
They can not a bun.
They can do stuff.
Young, I'm talking the goodlevel, you're right.
I'm sure there's a bad level,but I'm going to go against my
own grain right now, because Iwas in your era and stuff like
that.
There was a bunch of bad peopletoo, yeah for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
There were always bad people.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, there was a bad people.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
There was one person who was terrible at taekwondo
and she won 10 worldchampionships or something.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
She won a gold medal.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
She couldn't kick.
She literally couldn't kick.
She was 900 feet tall andcouldn't kick.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
I know a person that won a Olympic gold medal and
didn't score a point.
What?

Speaker 3 (01:08:37):
I'm very familiar with her.
I may she, may she.
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Anyway, it's true.

Speaker 3 (01:08:45):
Well, it's been an hour and some odd time.
We don't want to kill everybodywith this amazing wisdom that
we partake in and share with theworld.
Any closing thoughts?
I just want to know who didn'tscore a point.
If you know you know, sharewith the world Any closing
thoughts.
I just want to know who didn'tscore a point.
I'm sorry If you know who youknow won the entire Olympics
without scoring a point and alsowas one of these mind people.

Speaker 2 (01:09:09):
Positive affirmation it gets better.
Young, do you remember theOlympic trials?
Got KO'd.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
Got KO'd and that's on video Got KO'd and got lucky
because the ref didn't know whathappened.
The ref went like this but thatalmost happened to me.
I won't mention the person Idid it to, but there was a
person that I knocked out inteam trials and the ref and
everybody was standing therelike this You'll see me in the
videotape going count.

(01:09:37):
You'll see me in the videotapegoing count like start counting
Cause I was afraid he was goingto get back up.
I was like you better count.
He was, he got.
He got a 20 count and didn'tget up.
You know.
So the refs were bad.
Back then, you know, like I waslike cause literally you can
see me Cause like I had nointerest in him getting back up
because I knew the politicsinvolved and he didn't get back
up.
But I was like look at in himgetting back up because I knew

(01:10:05):
the politics involved and hedidn't get back up.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
But I was like looking at ref, because refs
like this I don't.
That didn't go to where he wassupposed to go.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
But yes, it's true, the one you're talking about.
She got KO'd out.
Well, it happened at worldchampionships.
In 87 Korea got knocked out bySweden and the Swedish coach was
so overwhelmed he ran into thering and grabbed his player and
was carrying him around, so theref spent 30 seconds getting him
out of the ring, at which pointthe Korean kind of the
featherweight kind of musterssome energy up to get up and

(01:10:30):
gets through the match somehow.
But it was true and I was, likeyou know, rule to the coach,
have a seat which Mark Williamswas coaching me when I knocked
this guy out in team trials atcollegiates and Mark just stood
up.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
When we talk about more knockouts, real quick, when
we talk about more knockoutslike the people that were
getting knocked out back thenwas the level comparable.
Because I feel like now, whenwe get big face shots, the level
is usually like so far offsetyou.
We get big face shots, thelevel is usually like so far
offset, you know what I mean.
You don't have any big Likegood player versus good player
you don't get face shots.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
You don't get any face shots here.
People get.
They get kicked in the face andthey look at each other.
If I watch a tape of a hook,kick a back hook, kick and.
I'm talking about no, no, holdon.
I'm talking about your bestplayer on your team right now.
He back, hook, kicked somebodyin the face and had a little
celebration for himself.
He should go slap himself inthe face.
He hook, kicked the guy in theface and nothing happened.

(01:11:23):
If we hook kick somebody in theface, they were down on the
floor unconscious, carried outon a stretcher, nine times out
of 10.
Nobody gets hit.
Now their feelings get hurt.
Somebody gets a nose, a nosepass by and he's like oh, what
was that?
Oh, it was a foot in my face.
No, watch the.

(01:11:44):
I watched the highlights.
That's the only thing I canwatch and I'm like.
They're like oh what, what was?

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
that you don't see any good shots.
You don't see any good shots orany like spectacular tecmo or
like timing stuff.
None of that from anybody the.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
The last thing I saw and it was a good guy against
against a beach ball was themexican guy getting knocked out
by the nadabon.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
That was yeah, that he was fighting a beach ball he
was fighting a beach.
That was my question.
Where, like that was?
When people get knocked outlike you're talking about your
era, your time, was it like,comparable, like they both were
not every time, not every time.
What was like that?

Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
not every not well, like the, there was a friend of
mine I don't want to mentionthis because I mentioned in a
seminar and he was in the roomand I didn't realize there was a
amazing knockout of a tworeally good guys fighting each
other in the asian games andthat was like good night,
sweetheart, and they were good.
Yeah, you know, yeah, but yougot to think about it.
Tj, you didn't, did you getknocked out?

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
nah, I got hit pretty heavy.
Don't tell you why you hesitate.

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
It's either that's a yes or no question because I
mean I've gotten hit hard.
All right one.
Did you get knocked out?

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
yes, so I think it counted out.
Remember the the the worldqualification when I got back
kicked low and they counted meout dude.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
That's why.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
That's why the uh, that's why, that's why.
That's why that's why we gotgold silver, bronze.

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
Okay, that explains it, coach.
You ever get knocked out.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
I've never been knocked out.
You got knocked out when I wasa yellow belt, nine years old.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
Oh, that's okay.
Good players against goodplayers, don't get knocked out
Good players, knock out lessgood players.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
That's not true, though.
You knocked out somebody verygood from Canada.
What's his name?
The black guy.
I knocked out a lot.
Yeah, he's a great player.
He's a good player you got him.

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
But I'm saying it's actually harder to knock out a
bad player because a bad playeris just trying to survive, right
, good players, they will take achance.
And if that chance doesn't payoff which was the case with the
canadian who I still have a lotof respect for we fought five
times.
Um, you know, it happens so.
But yeah, I mean I, I, it's notalways the good guy knocking

(01:13:50):
out.
Listen, I saw a good player getknocked out at the olympic
sports festival by a terribleplayer, like the guy just was
dying, losing, and he did thisweird jumping, crescent back
hook kick and knocked out afriend of mine and I was looking
at him like dude, what are youdoing?
Right, like he got killed forthe rest of the tournament, but
he at least got through that,all right.

(01:14:13):
Well, enough of the knockoutstuff.
My bowl of fruit is empty, mycup of espresso is done, and may
we all continue to push therock up the hill on Warehouse 15
.
And remember our admonition andour advice to you.
If something we saidpotentially offended you, sorry,
not sorry.
And none of the accentsportrayed in this podcast by

(01:14:36):
yours truly were meant to meanderogatory, but they are kind of
true and accurate, so don't beupset about it.
It is what it is, baby.
Truth is truth all right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
Later, peace later.

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