Old School vs New: Debating Taekwondo's Evolution

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
I'm Terrence run to the single thrill.
I'm sorry, not sorry, ain't itfunny?
I repeat, on the track mysister ill Advise opinions maybe
, but facts ain't lies, it'scold metal mentality.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Watch the sunrise, one of one.
I'm checkin' in so we'resittin' pretty.
Still mean second best in theworld.
Get witty.
Face down to Polnick's pressurecookin' hot.
Gave my sweat, my focuseverything.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
I got TJ Grimes TJ holding down the bronze Stood on
the stage.
I fought the giants, turned thenew page, learned to discipline
, respect for the fight, myfight, my life.
It's too late, no vitality.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
We've been through hell and it's too hard In
reality.
Just me and you Still me stuckin me.
That's gonna rock.
Some of it is something downthe floor.
Let it To the Warehouse 15.
And, as usual, there's been thepre-show banter, where we help

(00:56):
each other get motivated,masticated and not the other M
word.
But welcome gentlemen.
How you doing, mr Coach Moreno?

Speaker 3 (01:06):
I am doing good.
I am here in Uzbekistan,tashkent, uzbekistan, for a
couple weeks, really enjoyingthe country.
It's a beautiful actually verybeautiful country.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
What?

Speaker 3 (01:17):
part.
I think it's called Tashkent,tashkent.
I don't know how that's thepronunciation, but very nice
place.
It's warm right now, very hothere, beautiful buildings, nice
people.
Food has been really good,super cheap.
I want to tell you guys,actually I want to tell you guys
, your boy made it, your boymade it, your boy made it.

(01:40):
Look at this $1,100, $200, $300, $400, $500.
I'm a millionaire,000.
I'm a millionaire baby, I'm amillionaire.
Up in this joint, I spent$500,000 on dinner tonight.
Man, that's all I rolled.
It was actually equivalent to$38.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Oh my gosh.
What you'll learn quickly aboutUzbekistan is that when you go,
they will take your money, ifyou give them american dollars,
and change it for a certainamount of money, especially
hundred dollar bills, and thenwhen you go to pay the hotel,
they want you to pay in usdollars because oh yeah, for
sure, yeah, and they, becausethey they get a better exchange

(02:17):
rate on it.
And then tj, coach, I want tothank you for joining us from
the uh the lineup and, as mostof you that are watching the
podcast, he, he's apparently insome police station.
I see the thing how you beenCoach.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
I'm chilling.
I'm chilling.
I'm actually at the gym rightnow.
I had a couple private lessonclients this morning just
hanging out now.
I sat here for you.
I got a shot clock behind me.
I've been hearing you runningoff too long, so if I got to hit
the shot clock behind me, I'vebeen hearing you running off too
long, so if I got to hit theshot clock on, you get one
minute.
And you got to get it all done.
We're not going to sit here andlisten to this.
Here's a sign, tj.
Yeah, you see that.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
You push the button, I'm ready, you guys.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
I'm ready, you can cut me off at any moment,
because I usually don't havemuch.
I don't really talk that much.
I don't think I talk that muchbut, then again, I don't listen
to myself, so I talk and don'tlisten to myself, which is what
I suggest most people do.
But it's been an amazing week.
I'm glad that we're here.
Well, I got a note which Ifound fascinating, because you

(03:18):
know, we get these emails andI'm in California, home of
sunshine and everything that'snot North Carolina, and it was a
weird note.
It was from Kukiwan, california, which I kind of had heard
existed, and then it was acancellation, a recancellation
and then a whatever of an eventthat's not going to happen now
in San Francisco.
So I started getting phonecalls from all these people

(03:41):
asking me that was a Skip Dantest or whatever right.
Yeah, which is weird in itselfcredit classes.
Yeah, this, this they tried todo this in colorado a while back
, and and then all these peoplewent and spent a lot of money
and they went didn't know therequirements but, more
importantly, um, the ones eventhat knew the requirements, 70
of them didn't pass.
They, they spent all this moneyand then then that happened in

(04:04):
Vegas again.
Why?
don't they pass Because theycan't do what they say they're
going to do.
And so these guys try to Liketry, bucks, it's kind of a scam,
no, no, the people that arerunning it tell them oh listen,
you can come and we'll findyou'll get skipped three dons
and you can't do it.
You need a certain competitiverecord, or you have a fifth down

(04:26):
in karate and you come andwe'll get you your fifth down in
the kooky one, and so really,oh yeah For other other
disciplines.
No, they said that makes nosense, Dude they said show us a
legitimate time in training, alegitimate whatever.
And so the question it begs thequestion, if you're a guy who
took your time, went through allthis stuff, followed all the

(04:48):
rules and you're sixth, seventh,eighth, ninth, whatever it is,
and then all of a sudden someyou know asshat gets, he decides
he's been in the wrong worldand he's going to come over to
the kooky one and he shows up inthe room, learns a couple of
forms and now he's a ninth Donin the Kukiwon, or an eighth Don
or a seventh.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Don, that makes a little sense.
Zero, I'm not a fifth degree inKempo.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Well you know what I'm saying, but I guess when
you're that high up and againthis is my ignorant question
when you're that high up in theKukiwon sixth, seventh or eighth
Don, what does it do for you?
I, what does it do for you?
I know you're part of anorganization, what does it do?

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Well, it depends if you're Korean or you're American
.
So if you're Korean, it's adifferent world, and if you're
American.
In the United States there areseven men I'm not sure how many
of them are still alive.
That are ninth dons, and thenDr Kaepner just got his, so
eight.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
And then I hear my friend may be testing next year.
Yeah, but again, what does itdo for you?
It's just like a test, it'sjust like you just get a.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
You know what it's supposed to it should be.
You're now in the leadershipmode.
You're one of a very elitegroup of people in the world who
have achieved a ninth on.
What you found here, though, iswith all these little weird,
kooky ones, which are run by aguy who created an organization
that can't exist, because hemade it up himself and has just

(06:11):
told them all.
You will now bow to me andyou'll be my guys, all the guys
that are running these.
You've never heard of them.
Like the guy in california, Inever heard of this guy.
I've been to a lot oftournaments.
I've been around a long time.
The guy that's running it issome fifth Don and doesn't know
how to run a certification.
He's never done a class.
I never saw him.
I did all the Kuki Wan.

(06:31):
As Coach Moreno knows, I taughtall the sparring seminars.
When the Kuki Wan came heredoing certifications, I didn't
see this guy in the room.
All of a sudden, now he's theGrand Master, fifth, fifth Don,
who's telling people oh you comeand I'll get you skipped a Don
or two, and they're takingpeople's money, and they had a
bunch of people signed up forthe San Francisco one, which

(06:52):
they then canceled.
So I kind of sent a note andasked some questions, but I just
alert people out there.
Do yourself a favor.
This is a public serviceannouncement, not from Warehouse
15, but from me personally.
Save your money, save your time.
Don't waste your time with thecookie one in California.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
You know what it's almost like.
I mean a little bit ofsomething.
Things where we talk about kindof in the US Tech 1
organization there's so muchturnover and there's so much
change that nobody getscomfortable with one or two
things because it just changesin six months or a year or two
years.
Even two years is too quick.
So I mean the cookie one hasthe same thing.
I don't know enough about it,like you.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Well, the president's changing in a few months and
all this will change again.
But you know they have thehand-me-your-dough coming up in
Disney.
They have the hand me yourdough coming up in Disney.
The hand me your dough is.
Come and jump up in the air,kick a few boards, do some forms
and hand me your dough andyou'll become world champion of
whatever.
So we'll move on from that.

(07:55):
But I would advise all of youdon't hand anybody your dough,
don't kooky-wan-do anybody.
Save your dough and teach yourstudents and promote them
accordingly.
I think it's time there's atopic for another day, but for a
self realized USA Taekwondocertification.
And the clock is on.

(08:15):
I'm on the clock.
I'm going to trade SaundersSanders or whatever the hell his
name is for TJ hey, what do youguys think about that, though,
speaking of him?

Speaker 2 (08:24):
what do you guys think about that, though,
speaking of him?
What do you guys think aboutthe Shador Sanders thing?

Speaker 1 (08:30):
That may be my son's future.
Start it again.
That may be my son's future,because people may love my son,
but they may not love me.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Nah, but you're not in the soccer world, though.
You're not like a primetimesoccer player mixed up in the
middle.
That's a little different.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
I think you ever hear of a guy who played basketball
called Ball.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, yeah, lorenzo, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
But his dad played Ball a little bit, but anyways
go ahead.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
Nah, but those kids made it, to be honest with you.
So let me go with Shigeru, Imean, first of all.
I mean he was a winner atJackson State.
He was a winner in Colorado.
He was a good prospect.
But the truth of the matter isthis quarterback draft was not
good.
They said it was one of theworst quarterback groupings in a
long time.
Now, that being said, I don'tthink he should have been

(09:17):
drafted so far down.
But he certainly wasn't numberone.
I'm talking about thequarterbacks and you can make an
argument for number two, three.
You know being picked over him,but what he did wrong.
To be honest with you, you knowthe NFL not fun league they call
it you know they get fined foreverything If you go to
interviews and you got yourheadset on.

(09:38):
If you go to the interviews andyou aren't prepared, like a
couple of GMs were like why areyou not prepared for this
interview?
Like he didn't take it serious.
And if you're an NFL GM, you'resaying we're going to start our
franchise with this young kidthat is just talking this and
that you can't draw attention toyourself at the NFL.

(09:59):
You can't be like we're goingto it's not the college stuff,
tj, you know this.
Nobody in the NFLfl, especiallyquarterbacks, pop off at the
mouth and say I'm gonna do this,I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do
this.
Not even the great ones, not,not, uh, not my homes not uh
brady, not uh josh allen, notlamar, uh jackson no, you don't

(10:20):
think.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
There's no room for that.
This, this whole world of like,uh you know, promote yourself,
be you know, the promoteyourself, be you know the shock
factor and all that shit.
You know all that stuff likethat.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
You know why?
Cause it doesn't work in theNFL it doesn't work.
Nobody does that.
Nobody does, nobody givesbulletin board material.
So I don't think.
Yeah, I know they want to say,you know, dion said this and
that you know.
But again, even I'm going todraft you and you're going to
play on my team and then I'mgoing to have to know that
there's a circus of frenzy mediaout there talking to the dad

(10:49):
about what they should.
I mean, it's just not a funplace to be.
You don't build your programlike that.
You do the opposite.
Keep everything close inside,Keep us, you know, keep
everybody on track.
That's professional sports.
It doesn't work like that atall in any.
I've never seen it in historyand I don't think Shadurah
Sanders is the guy to changethat at all.

(11:11):
Not even close.
He's not even that.
He's number five on theCleveland Browns team.
I had a conversation recentlywith some guys and they were
like they bet me that he wasn'teven going to make the roster.
I thought he was going to.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
I think he can beat out at least two people.
For sure, for sure.

Speaker 3 (11:29):
He could be third on the roster bro.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
But that's that.
But I'll tell you what, though?
I'll tell you what though?
That's that NIL money, thoughit's a different I know he's
already got money because of hisdad and all that stuff.
But when your pockets come likeyou already, you feel like you
can act how you want.
Yeah, exactly, talk how you want, move how you want.
And I mean most of these kidsdon't even need to go to the nfl
anymore, like that don't evengot to be the dream.
At the end of the day they cango get eight mil in college, be

(11:56):
great and then invest insomething and get out like who
knows you know you talked about.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
You said the ball brothers and look how, look how
that backfired on.
You know I'm saying they got.
They got busted in the nfl.
You know the kid in charlotte,he's doing okay, but the other
one got injuries and people wereafter them.
Right, they were after them toshut those boys up because of
what their dad did.
Imagine what these defensiveguys and these, these, these, uh

(12:21):
, defensive coordinators wouldbe trying to do to Sanders, like
pinning their ears back.
I just don't think Deion didany favor.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
So it's a team environment.
Right, and I hate to makecomparisons to the most recent
taekwondo version of this, butone thing I learned early on
when I was competing was shut up, do your job, let others talk
about you.
And it was the one thing that afriend of ours, a mutual friend

(12:48):
of ours, said.
He said don't speak aboutyourself, let others, let others
speak for you.
So I I took it to like the nthdegree.
I didn't even film myself, Ilet other people film me.
I watched film that otherpeople had so that I could learn
.
I had this weird thing about notnot, uh, bringing attention to
myself other than to what I didon the floor in the arena, and I

(13:12):
didn't speak about cause.
I learned a very importantlesson in 88.
I didn't look future, I lookedpresent, right now, at the
moment.
So when you're anybody whetheryou're a great, you know, and
then I, you know you get a hugechain, you get this, you do the
whole thing, you self-promote,and then nobody takes you on.
Now the reason is get yourclock ready.

(13:32):
The reason is yeah, I'm ready.
The reason is this At the endof the day, you've got to
understand that you're in a teamenvironment.
Taekwondo, you can be anindividual to some degree, but
without your teammates you ain'tmaking it either.
But definitely in a teamenvironment, if you're
distracting from the team'smission, you're distracting from
the team's focus, you'redistracting from the team's

(13:54):
whatever, then you're adetriment, not not, not a
positive.
You're not a positive to theteam, you're a liability and not
a benefit, and so, in thisparticular situation, I don't
know enough about the player tocare about him one way or the
other, um, other than to saythat if you're going to look for
a reason, you don't need tolook that far do your job, I
guess I guess my thing is too,you know, so funny.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
I don't know if it was when he was at jackson uh,
jackson state, or or when hemoved over to colorado uh, the
dion, but there was a big, a lotof the interview press and a
lot of the Instagram feeds werehim going like you will wear
your pants up.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
You're not walking around with your pants on your
waist, your headphones or yourhat or your chains.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
He was like they not go open their pocketbooks to you
with this, this, this and allthis craziness, and then it's
kind of like I didn't see it.
I with his headphones on, notprepared for stuff which is just
kind of flip-floppy.
For me it doesn't make sense tome in that situation.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
But like I said, I think he got that money.
Master President, you got to gobecause I know you're a soccer
guy.
Now you like soccer.
You got to watch the Captainsof the World.
Have you seen it on Netflix?

Speaker 1 (14:56):
I did.
I love that stuff.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
I got to watch it.
Oh, it's great.
I'm a number five right now.
It's really really good.
Well, well done.
I love it.
Netflix is taking over thesporting world.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, in another world, they're about to get UFC.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
I know UFC is going to be crazy.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
I would love to in another world, focus on soccer
and helping them, because they….
No, don't, I would love to Justgo ahead.
They need USA Soccer.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
They don't need anything.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Professionals don't.
Usa Soccer needs a betterdevelopmental pipeline that's
more concise.
Instead of all the infightingDude they have infighting
between they have MLS next, thenthey have ENCL, then they have
all these small groups.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
That's just opportunities, though that's
just great opportunities forthem to keep playing.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
I think they need more of them anymore they need
more.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
they actually what they need is more content of.
Instead of kids getting contentfrom tiktok and places like
this instagram, they needsomeone in soccer should design
like peak performance has atraining regimen so that kids in
usa soccer could have aconsistent pipeline and instead
of doing whipped cream soccerlike we talk about in taekwondo,

(16:11):
the fundamentals and thefoundation.
So the good ones do and that'swhy they win, but the other ones
, they're just floating aroundand hoping.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
I just think we don't get our best athletes.
I mean the problem with theUnited States we have enough
numbers at all levels, but wedon't get the best athletes.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
We're getting better.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
They're getting better.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
They get good athletes the best athletes are
baseball basketball, yeah, butyou want to know something.
Here's the thing.
The one thing about soccer andused to be true about taekwondo
is you don't need to be aparticular body type.
You can make your body typework in soccer, more so than
anything else, with theexception of a few positions.
Look at Messi he's not that big.

(16:49):
Look at Ronaldo no, no, no,he's big.
He's big, but the difference ishow you manifest your skill set
.
So I love soccer for thatreason.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Don't they specialize really young, though Don't they
specialize really young.
They specialize really young.
They start soccer camps reallyreally young, though, don't they
specialize?
Really young, they specialize,really young.
They start soccer camps, really, really young.
That's in Europe, the rest ofthe world, the rest of the world
.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
United States.
The kids are in, they have apipeline that's recreational,
then they go to club, then theygo to a higher level like MLS.
The problem is that, yeah, goahead.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
No, what I'm saying is if you think about this?

Speaker 1 (17:22):
TJ hit the clock.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
Yeah go ahead In other countries.
They don't have to competeagainst again professional
basketball, baseball, footballand hockey, and so the athletes
gravitate towards soccer in mostof those countries.
It's the NBA in Europe.

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Fair enough, it's the NFL in Europe.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
So that's what I'm saying Again.
Can you imagine a Deion Sandersrunning down the wing?
It's the NBA in Europe, it'sthe NFL in Europe.
So that's what I'm saying Again.
Can you imagine a Deion Sandersrunning down the wing?
Can you imagine a Tyreek Hillplaying on the wing?
The guy runs a 4-1.
It would be impossible to catchhim.
It would be impossible.
Imagine you got a center, a guythat's 6'10", being a goalie

(18:05):
and as agile as these guys arenowadays's what I'm saying.
You're just not getting likeour best of our best.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah, we said that about taekwondo.
I think that's true, but I, I.
But then again, let me ask youthis question then, where are
those guys?
Where are those guys in europe?
Like, where are the germansthat are six foot ten?
Because they have them, and whyaren't they playing soccer,
soccer they, they are.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
A lot of them do play soccer, but now they are
getting into basketball andthings like that.
I mean it's still.
I mean you can't replace soccerwith basketball in in germany,
soccer is still soccer in france, it's the same.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
So yeah, anyway let's move on.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
Let's move to our sport enough football.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
No, you said you went .
I didn't.
I haven't watched many of yourmatches, but you said you were
going to talk about the SpanishOpen.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, just a quick shout-out to the Spanish Open
because, man, I think we had afemale heavyweight, hannah Keck,
that won a gold medal.
We had this, the kid, the54-kid, gun from.
Is he from New York?
Is he from New?

Speaker 2 (18:59):
York.
Yeah, 54, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
He won a gold medal, victor Rodriguez got a bronze
medal in lightweight and I thinkone other boy, another kid from
New York, got a bronze.
I believe I can't get his nameout right now, but I just
thought it was pretty nice tosee some kids and some people

(19:22):
kind of out on their own havingsome success internationally.
And you know it's you know, Iwas trying to take notice of it
that, um, you're seeing somepeople that are not from the
establishment, not from thenational program, that are
traveling now and, um, well,they've always traveled, but
people are traveling and gettingresults, and so I think you
know, result at a Spanish openis, uh, is is pretty good.

(19:44):
So shout out to those guys thatwent out there and did a good
job.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
It was Gen 3, right.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
I was just going to say that it was Gen 3, and it
kind of had some people sayingthey were smacking and it wasn't
scoring and a lot of the slidesand kind of grades were coming
up, which was, I don't thinkwhere we want to be with that
system, and I know they're goingto use that system at the grand
prix challenge in northcarolina.
So I was actually talking tosomeone today about, you know,

(20:10):
are they're going to have gen 3socks?
Where can I get them?
You know, I mean it's, it'scrazy, it's crazy I think that

Speaker 2 (20:16):
don't have that crap.
It's all the setup.
We're going to have way champat the olympic games.
Don't worry about it, watch,watch.
I'll call it now.
We'll end up with with thethird system at the olympic
games, that's what I say I thinkso, watch, watch I think, so I
watched them use it in asia.
What I think was the asianpresident's cup or whatever I
just watched recently was one ofthose, but they're using it

(20:36):
over there.
I mean it's, it's comparable,what was in the box.
Oh, here we go.
We can't hear it.
I don't know what this is today.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
What's in the box?
That's it.
What's in the box, gentlemen?

Speaker 3 (20:56):
I got a question for you Because I'd like to talk,
kind of give a little update onthis place here.
Like I said, I'm here inUzbekistan.
I got a question for you guys.
Do you think about, like um?
I had a conversation with theguy the other day about coaching
.
Like some of the he's, he's alittle bit more from the old
school but he has people thatcompete nowadays and he was
saying that it's superfrustrating for people like him.

(21:18):
Um, from another generationthat works with an athlete,
tells the athlete listen, dothis, because they're going to
do this, and then this is goingto work.
And they do all that stuff.
They get to the point they hitthe chest period, clearly, and
it's not rewarded.
He's like here I am, I told himwhat to do, I told him the
right thing to do, I told himhow to score, they did it all
and it doesn't work.
He's like that era and I waskind of like I didn't have an

(21:46):
answer for him.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
You know other than we just kind of move on right
and I know, yeah, I don't know,I was about to say it's just
take another shot situation.
You know, I always tell you.
I mean, you know we can.
It does suck when we compare,when I compare like a generation
of tech we're knowing this andelectronics.
I think this is the toughestgame in the world because
there's so many inconsistenciesyou just don't have.
You never know what's going toscore, you never know how the
referee is going to react, younever know if the system is
going to stay on or it's all somany things.

(22:08):
So it's a tough game.
I think the only thing you cando is the ones that tend to win.
They just kind of just like yousaid, just go to the next shot,
get to the next shot, just keeptrying to put their foot on the
chess card.
But it's definitely frustrating, I don't.
I think we spent about 60% morelike free flow kicking and maybe
40% coaching.
I think there's a lot of action.

(22:30):
A lot of you know things thathappen constantly, but I think
the majority is the 60% whereyou're kicking.
You know there's not really alot of setup, or I'm just kind
of trying to test your guard andtest your length and test your
strength and see if I can getthrough and see if you give a
little bit and then build fromthere.
But I think that's the answer.
I don't know, I'm not sure,like trying to coach it now I go
crazy.
I go crazy because you never,most of the time you don't, get

(22:53):
the response you want from thechess guards, the helmet or the
referees.
You know.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, I mean that's a pretty good point, young.
What do you think?
Do you think that the thinkthat the I mean I know you don't
pay attention too much of theguys nowadays Do you think the
older coaches were morestrategical than the ones now?

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Well, I mean, the Korean coaches I had weren't?
I mean, they didn't really giveme a strategy.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
No, yeah, that's true , good point.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
You know like they sat in the chair and passed me
my water bottle.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
Yeah, that's a good point, and then uh, you know?
Oh, I think I'm not talkingabout the ones that we.
I'm not talking about the onesthat we, but I'm talking.
You know, people like, peoplethat you consider good coaches,
yeah, so good coaches here andyou.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
You make an interesting point, and then TJ
finally admitted to somethingwhich is true there's no
strategy left in Taekwondo,right?
So there's no setup.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
There's no step.
There's a different type ofstrategy.
There's a.
There's a pressure aspect.
There's a.
There's a.
There's a I, I found.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
I found I'm going to share something with you now,
because I've been waiting forthis moment and I have found a
videotape better not be another.
Really good tequendo video,because last time you saw all
these knockouts little leaguecoaching at its finest.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
I remember this video , oh, this is, I think I love
this video.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
He's like you suck, or something like that.
Yeah, I'm crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
It says click to exit full screen.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
Normally we can't hear it, so that's not a problem
.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
That's a great shot, BJ Okay but yeah, no, um, he's
good, but uh, I forgot what wewere talking about.
Now you threw me off.
All right, let's go you justwasted, you know what you start
from, there you start for 40seconds.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
All I'm saying is all I'm saying is like you know, I
you know there was one, there'sa similar one about that, like
in hockey, and then there's theworld's worst boxing coach,
which I'll share with you guyslater.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
But I think there, but I think there's a strategy I
worst boxing coach, which I'llshare with you guys later, but I
think there is a strategy.
I think the strategy is justhidden a little differently.
There's got to be some strategy.
I'm just saying there has to besome strategy.
Why do people win consistently?
They're just the only ones thatkick more.
How do you explain a personthat doesn't kick as much and
still wins?

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Technically?
No, no, I'm not saying there'snot a strategy.
If no, no, I'm not sayingthere's not a strategy If we
play a slap hand game, there's astrategy in every game.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
The question is is there a strategy with regard to?
I mean, you want my imitationof the strategy?
Here it is.
I think it's pressure andstrength.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
I think it's pressure and strength.
Hold on, hold on, okay, okay,leaning back, you're lifting
your front leg.
When you're watching the drillsand even the drills you guys
are training you're watching.
I could show you 20 drills ofthese new guys and they're
jumping on a box.
They're doing drills that arenot sport-specific and they're
trying to increase the power oftheir base foot to be able to
extend forward.
While you're on one leg so youcan do something goofy with your

(25:46):
front leg that'll touch thechest protector and you're on
one leg so you can do somesomething goofy with your front
leg that'll touch the chestprotector.
And you're never going to winthis argument with me, for a
couple of reasons.
One is taekwondo is a martialart as a martial sport.
If it was going to mimic itstrue thing, it would be a full
contact martial art and that'swhat you would reward, not body
touches.
You don't reward body touchesin any other sport.

(26:06):
That's truly a fighting sport.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
You can have a scoring system and they got rid
of it in boxing they don't countbody shots.
In boxing they don't I meanlike, but body shots still count
against the overall score.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
No, if you went like this, if you went like this in
boxing, ah, yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
I know they got to be good punches they would look at
you?

Speaker 1 (26:25):
No hold on.
Ah ha, they got to be goodpunches.
They would look at you.
No, hold on.
And now that you brought it up,I just found, which I'll share
with you later, because I don'twant to get you crazy on all
this, but I found the guy underthat.
The reality is it doesn't havea strategy that's tied to the

(26:48):
martial art itself.
When you can do a back hookkick, I still challenge you to
find me one player you like Inthe current style.
I need you to find me one playeryou like.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
There's got to be one person that you're like man,
this kid can fight.
There's got to be one person inthe entire world that you're
like this guy is pretty good.
It's got to be one.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
I need to tell you, I see a lot of talented players
and I think they're what do youcall it?
They're not coached well andthey don't expand their
knowledge base, but I found theguy.
This is my guy.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
Except full screen again.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
This guy could win the US team trials.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
I heard we can't see it.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Oh, oh, you can't see it.
Hold on.
Let me see there are somedivisions.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
There are some divisions in the US team trials
like some are really low basedand like not high level
competitors to be at a teamtrials, but like I mean, you
know, okay, here's what I'mgoing to say.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Listen, I'm going to say, listen, I'm going to go
with you.
I'm going to agree with you,young, because there's a lot of
people and TJ, hopefully youunderstand this a lot of people
in this sport that teach yourpeople how to do stuff with
their front leg, and theirstrategy is exactly what you
know.
You said, young, they standthere and go like this.
Those coaches are not goodcoaches.
Their kids will get their footon someone's face eventually.

(28:13):
But you and I know they're notdoing anything right there.
If you just sit there, listento them.
Heck, I've heard some recentthings where someone kind of
videotapes and you hear thisencouragement or information in
between rounds, and it's notinformation that relates to how
do I go get a point, and sothose people have taught their
people just how to kick and holdtheir leg up and, like you,
always say, see what?
Just kind of sticks.
And then there's people thatare like, push him back, push

(28:34):
him back, draw him in, draw himin, let him come in.
When he comes in, I want you toslide back and kick, like
there's.
You can hear the coach talk tothe athlete of what they're
trying to achieve, how they're,how they're getting to that
point.
But I would say most of themjust have taught their people
how to kick and kick a lot andthey call that strategy go?

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, I think that's.
But that's that win now kind ofstrategy.
I think that's the differencebetween, like the older,
training and training.
Now we were training to turn 18years old and fight 27 year
olds that could like kill us ifthey needed to.
You know what I mean Strong,big men and and I think that's
the part of it everyone's tryingto win at cadet and they're
trying to win at you.
Not that those levels aren'timportant, but I think we, we
emphasize on the winning part,the, the touches and and all

(29:15):
that stuff.
And then later on, I think whenyou start to get to the junior
world level, you see that littlebit of a difference change in
some of those kids over there.
Like those, those they're,they're a little bit more
aggressive, they they understandthat we talk about pressure and
distance and all this stuff alittle bit more, as opposed to.
If this is working, it's cool,but I think I think that's the
problem.
I think we're just we're sofocused on, you know, cadet
national teams and juniornational teams, and I know it's

(29:38):
always hard to get a kid to kindof get through all the systems,
but the goal was always to getto the highest point, you know
so tj and and Young you can jumpin on this too like because I
mean, so are there coachingsecrets anymore?

Speaker 3 (29:53):
are the coaching?
Yeah, there's still.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
There's still coaching secrets, because and
you don't have to love or hatethe game right, you got to, just
you got to admit the game isthe game right, and so are there
.
Can you say to somebody, um,and, and I'll give the one thing
that I I'll talk about, whichis canceling you lift your leg
up to cancel a kick.
Is there a secret?
Is there a better way or aworse way to do that?

(30:15):
There are unique ways to do it,and then there are unique
things that you can do, and thenthey become known because you
do it in a certain way.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
I think there's a better way or a worse way.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
By the way, there might be a way that one guy has
that he knows how to follow upwith it in a certain way or fact
.
My point is, those arestrategic in the sense of and
here's the thing you have to,here's where you should start
from, and this is why we haven'thad this conversation yet.
If you were going to design agame and I don't care if it's

(30:47):
soccer, basketball or a brandnew game, whatever, whatever the
game is if I took this guitarpick and the guy the idea was to
throw it into a cup, therewould be a set of outcomes.
The good is if the, if the pickmakes it into the cup.
The bad is if the pick doesn'tmake it into the cup.
That's the value.
So if you look at taekwondo andyou say what was its original
intent, the game I just told youhas no value.
But boxing had a value and itwas to control your opponent,

(31:15):
dominate your opponent or knockyour opponent out.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Those are the things that you don't think that's the
same.
Now, control, dominate or not,try to knock them out, not even
close, not even control.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
I'm not even I'm not gonna even have this
conversation, because not evencontrol, though the girly, the
girly little sissy, sissifiedstuff that I have to.
I have to when I decide to eventry to watch it sucks any of it
.
If any of these guys did thisat a point in the old format,
they would get killed andcarried out on the street I know

(31:47):
, but we've had this, but we'vehad this conversation.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
So now, now let's just all right.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
So let's just talk about, if you like, where
taekwondo is, that we don't haveto talk anymore about where.
What I'm saying?
What I'm saying is taekwondooriginally, in its original
intent, was taking somethingthat was full contact and deadly
, that supposedly.
And mma killed that and saidhere's what you reward, because
if this were a real situation,it would, it would matter, and

(32:15):
that's gone away.
In other words, the idea thatany one particular technique,
because it's not power-based,has that ability anymore, goes
away.
So now the goal of the game hasgone away and instead of it
being focused on what it shouldhave been, which is the intent
of the martial art or sport,it's focused on scoring, on
scoring on this particulardynamic, which is a chest

(32:36):
protector.
How do I shape my foot?
In such a way and this is theproblem, and as soon as I say
you'll understand it it doesn'tmatter whether I kick or I lift
my leg in a non-kick fashion.
That wouldn't have anythingother than the contact happen.
That's now a point and that'sit.

(32:57):
Had you gone with a slightlydifferent system, you'd have
better outcomes If you went witha pressure power system.
You can't pressure power,non-technique.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
They did that, they tried that.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
It didn't work.
It doesn't because they didn'thave the technology, but if you
did do it, the argument was ohwhat if he kicks him in the arm?
And I'm like, if he kicks himin the arm hard enough and the
arm hits the chest protector andand it can score, it can
register.
That should be it.
And so we have have, because ofcheating, conniving, nepotistic
, xenophobic countries, in onecountry in particular that

(33:36):
couldn't get out of its own wayto not cheat or force their
referees not to cheat, we nowsold our soul to a game, a bad
version of a video game thatdoesn't work.
If this were a video game,nobody would play it.
Nobody would play this videogame.
If this were the old which Iused to go to the movie theater

(33:56):
and play before the movie KarateFighter, you at least knew when
you pressed those buttons, youducked down, you punched the guy
in the groin and if you figuredout how to do it back.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
There's no standards in anything.
It doesn't matter, it issporadic.
There's no standards inanything.
It doesn't matter.
As long as your foot touchesthe chest guard, it scores, and
I think that's the problem.
That's not a point.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
It's not a taekwondo technique or point.
Now I'm okay with that.
So as soon as you throw out theaesthetic, that's like saying I
like to listen to certain kindsof music.
When I hear it, I hearharmonies, I hear this harmonies
, I hear this, I hear that, andit's a great cut.
And when it's not, that I cantell, hey, that's that's not
good music, that that's that'sterrible.
Now there may come somethingdifferent and I like it and I'll

(34:37):
say, oh, I may not like it, butit's still good.
I I I'm going to ask you thisquestion.
Start your clock.
I'm going to ask you thisquestion.
Make sure it gets to 92.
It's a good year.
Well, I'm going to ask you thisquestion is there anything that
?
you like, you didn't start.
Is there anything that you likeabout this style of taekwondo?

Speaker 2 (35:01):
I like the round by round system.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
I'm talking about the art not not the, not the, not
the rules um hold on hold.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
On hold on hold on a second what's the question this
is going to be the mic drop.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Get ready what's?
The question so if you lookedat old style taekwondo you would
say I like this double kick, Ilike this back kick, I like this
round kick.
I think those are powerful,effective techniques.

(35:36):
I like the fact that you cankick somebody and they stop
being able to think they'reunconscious on the floor.
Can you say that there's atechnique in this particular
style of Taekwondo?

Speaker 2 (35:47):
I mean they still throw round kicks and back kicks
.
They still throw it.
I don't, I mean, that's what Imean.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
I want to answer that , but let me just go back real
fast, because you know youtalked about they, everyone's
manipulated the system to scoreon the techniques you know, on
today's mechanism.
But wasn't that the same in the80s and 90s, when you learned
how to wrap your foot to make abig noise, didn't you key up and
you celebrated your technique?

(36:15):
It's the same thing.
Even if you'd kicked him in theass, you yelled loud.
So the referees had to push itso hard they assumed it was
going to hit.
By the time they realized itdidn't hit, it was too late.
So we tricked, we manipulatedthe system based on our attitude
, based on our energy, based onwhere the referee thought the

(36:39):
kick was going to go.
So in a strange way, it's thesame.
But I also want to get back to.
Sometimes we talk about theathletes and stuff, and when you
say people knock people out,you're right.
You did a lot of them.
I saw a lot of them.
I did a few of my day.
But I also know there was amillion people that showed up to
tournaments, that were weekendwarriors, that trained a couple

(37:00):
of days a week.
There was about four of you,herb.
There was about four of me.
There was about four of Desaul.
There wasn't many, and thatgoes worldwide.
And so when we talk about thatold school, while I know people
did kick harder because that'swhat was necessary, there wasn't
many people that good at it,there was only a few countries
that were good at it.
What I can say about now youasked me what I like about the

(37:22):
techniques.
Now, I love how people canmanipulate their leg in midair
to crack somebody.
When someone can drop theirfoot on their face, like
seemingly in a space that's thistight, from this range, is
mind-boggling, because when wefought, everything was so long
and so far and so extended.

(37:43):
Very rarely did you fight inmiddle distance.
You couldn't.
The right I mean, it wasn't, itwas frowned upon you.
You couldn't give up that space.
You couldn't give up thatchance of somebody tagging you
and rolling out.
I I think there's a lot to like.
I love the endurance of these,these athletes.
They have to move every threeseconds, they have to engage

(38:04):
every three seconds, that's, andthe clock stops every time
there's a clinch, every timethere's a fall.
So you fight a real two minutes.
I know our days in thechampionship level was three
minutes, but that was a runningclock and there was a lot of
standing, a lot of holding, alot of grabbing.
So I'm old school, so I'm notgoing to bag it and trash it,

(38:27):
but I'm also not going to saythat it was great and this is
horrible.
Just like you said, tj, thereis a bunch of crappy stuff.
I see a lot of crappy coachesteaching crappy stuff and
getting away for it.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Do you teach crappy?
Stuff in your gym, do you?

Speaker 3 (38:43):
teach crappy stuff, I will say no.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Exactly For me it goes back to the coaching.
It goes back to what'sinstilled in the, in the
athletes from a young age.
And I'm not saying I don't carewho's good and who's bad, but I
think that's where it starts.
I don't think you, I don'tthink I go.
I mean, personally, I'm notgoing.
Okay, we're going to flick ourfoot this way.

(39:06):
Base of building is still thesame, I think it's.
You encourage them to havemotion and movement.
You encourage them to engage,you encourage them to follow up,
you encourage them to keep thespace.
Now more so, it cancels andcuts as opposed to big, heavy
round kicks and spinning.
But you're still encouragingthem to like, push the fight.
Well, at least that's what I,that's my version of the game.
I'm encouraging to push thematch so that we can do some old

(39:28):
school stuff and some heaviershots and get through.
And I think if you watch thematches from getting to end at
the highest level, you watchthat breakdown from round one to
round two and maybe even roundthree.
Now, all of a sudden, this guyis getting his back flag
underneath.
Because he knows this guy'sdistance, he knows he has him
standing still.
He can get to the top side,throw something big, hit the big
spins.
This thing is a progression.
Still, it looks weird, it canbe weird, but I think it's a

(39:50):
progression and the goal isstill the same.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Guys, I'm here watching these kids train right
now and, herb, you would thinkit was Korea, you would think it
was.
I mean, they're doing stufflike back leg round, kick back
leg round, kick punch punch.
Back leg round, kick back leground, kick punch punch.
Like back leg, run, back legrun.
Pot of chuggy, pot of chuggy.
Off the line, off the line.
Pot of chuggy.
Pot of chuggy.
They're doing skip, cut, kick,draw back up up pot of chuggy.
Switch your stance.
Who's this?

Speaker 2 (40:15):
but that's, we had some bad.
We had some good family girls,so they were strong this is, uh,
who is?

Speaker 3 (40:22):
I don't even know who .
Thailand and Korea.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Is it playing or is it skipping?
That was a good axe kick.
It's not loading.
Look at the stepping, thestepping is beautiful this is
amazing.
We can't see it.
You can't see it, we got to getour video feedback going,
because it's just choppy on myscreen, is it?

Speaker 1 (40:45):
No, that's actually what it looks like.
It's not choppy.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
No, but you should see these, and I'm here with my
Brazil guys.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Okay, here's Korea versus somebody.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Tyler no, he switched .
Oh, same, same same.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Yeah, it's just choppy yeah, you can't see it,
it's just we should, we shoulddo one.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
We should do one uh one podcast where we actually
figure out how to like make thevideos run smooth.
We can watch a few, we'll do itwe'll do it on.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
We'll do it on uh, we'll do it at some point, but
the uh, the point is, you knowlike and this is like not to say
anything other than to saywhat- it's saying is watch the
tape and don't watch the kicks,just look at the floor, look at
the legs and the motion of thefeet and see what you see.
And this again I learned fromsomebody else.
He said if you watch, there's afriend of ours, mutual friend

(41:36):
of ours, and it was the one bestadvice.
He says everybody watchesTaekwondo for the kicks, watch
it for the motion on the floor,watch it from, watch it for the
motion on the floor, watch itfrom, watch it for the stepping
and the setup, of which there'snone, and and in this particular
style of taekwondo.
So you got to just understand.
You can do whatever you want,right, but there's an aesthetic
to everything and the aestheticis what makes it valuable.

(41:58):
So if you watch basketball,basketball's aesthetic has
continued to rise to such adegree now that when you watch
it Sorry, it's trash.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Now, what are you talking about?
It's trash, bad example.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
It's better than 1950 .

Speaker 3 (42:13):
Not better than the 90s, maybe not, or 2000s.
It's horrible.
Maybe I don't know.
A playoff team just wonyesterday.
They beat the Lakers.
They shot seven for 47.
Seven from 47.
They shot 47 times.
They made seven three-pointers.
The worst in NBA historyHistory and they won the game.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
What was the purpose of the three-point shot
originally?
Do you know?

Speaker 3 (42:38):
To get three points.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
What did it prevent?

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Well, I don't know what it prevented they it was it
was risk and reward.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
In other words, when you take a higher risk, it
forced people to.
They knew that if they let theguy out there at the three point
line, he was going to get threepoints.
He's going to get 50 more for afield goal than if he were just
going under the basket andlaying it up right and forcing
his way in.
So every game has its detriment, right, and they try to control
the game through the way theypunish and they reward.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
And now everyone's shooting.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
three pointers that's the problem, right, exactly,
they'll touch us to the head.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
We're just trying to touch the head anymore.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
And that's why I like to watch high level soccer.
So I watch high level soccerbecause then you see the passing
and what they do to set up andthe understanding of spatial
dynamics.
It's fascinating to watch.
So there are different sports,for different reasons, that
accelerate their technical curve, and then they try to

(43:38):
continually revisit what isgoing to make it more exciting.
I don't think you can say, andI challenge you to say, that
taekwondo's technical curve hasbeen accelerated or increased.
I think what you would probablysay is it's been diminished, it
hasn't been increased, andthat's not really hard to prove.

(44:01):
I'm not, I don't want to talkabout, but what I will say is
you got to decide what theaesthetic is and if the if
you're happy with this, ifyou're happy with what you're
seeing now, then we don't haveto talk anymore about it.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
If you're not happy, it's not like for me.
I guess I watch a lot incomparison, so it's not all of
it.
I understand what you're saying, but I just think you're right.
At the higher levels is I don'tknow, but it's bad there may be

(44:33):
a guy that can win.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
In other words, my point is there I'm waiting for
the guy who's who's?
Who's jesus?
I'm waiting for jesus to showup and show us how to fish.
And I thought it was going tobe Aaron Cook, to be honest,
because when Aaron Cook was inthat transitionary period, he
wasn't.
Stephen Lopez Lopez was aninterlocker.
He didn't have any interest inaccelerating the game, he had an

(44:55):
interest in prolonging hislegacy, which is okay.
But a guy like Aaron Cook likedtaekwondo, for taekwondo and
did taekwondo and he switchedand he did this and he tried to
make he just didn't have theintellectual tool set not a dig
one way or the other tounderstand how to make his style
of taekwondo work against thecurrent style that was starting

(45:20):
to become in the forefront.
And that's not a dig on Aaron,that's a dig on the coach.
Whoever his coach was couldn'tsit back and say, okay, maybe
let's try this or let's try thator let's try that.
And I'm not saying that I could, because if you two can't
figure it out, I don't think Ican either.
Like, I have this littlefantasy of what I would do.
Somebody tried to cancel my kick.
Good luck, right, you good luck.

(45:45):
Right, you do it once and youwouldn't be able to cancel
anymore, you wouldn't be able towalk anymore and I'll take the
minus point.
By the way, or the other guygets the point.
I could care less, but that's afantasy, I'm not in the ring,
and so, with you guys, if youcan't figure out how to develop
a player who is going to changethe framework of what we do and
how it's done, then we're introuble and the sport's in
trouble, because that's nolonger a rule, that's no longer

(46:07):
a me problem, that's a ruleproblem that doesn't allow for
technical innovation, and that's, I think that's.
That goes back to the scoringsystem.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
You know how, like in the old days, like basketball,
like a center, he would go inthe paint, right, he posts up,
give me the ball, dribble, hewould turn.
Everything was close.
Right Now, evolution, theseguys, these seven footers, can
go out on three-point line anddribble.
They drill the ball up, theypull up from half court, they
can shoot.
So it's funny, like you know.

(46:38):
You say that, like I think tomyself okay, juan, yeah, can you
make a person that does all theold school steps and do that
stuff?
Okay, even if you did, theywould still have to know how to
use the front leg.
I think Korea is getting reallygood at that.
I'm fascinated by these guys.
Right now, I've written downevery training.
I'm taking little video clipsof everyone.
I'm just fascinated because allI see is old school taekwondo.

(47:04):
Hopefully I can have a meetingwith the coach on Saturday.
I want to know where they learnhow to do all this stuff,
because I'm watching a practice.
It's back leg, it's fast kicks,it's draw up, it's two
roundhouse kicks and you know,tj, they get into clinch and
they can twist kick, but Ihaven't seen it in practice.
I don't know where they get itfrom and you know as well as I
do TJ, the Uzbekistan girls.

(47:24):
They don't fight.
They're doing all these drillsjust like we do, but when they
fight, they're like oh, theirlegs are snakes.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
But you and I did that.
So you trained with me longenough to know that if you watch
me in training, if you watch mefighting, you would think the
only thing I did was left leground kick and check, or back
kick and back hook kick.
Those were the three kicks youwould think I could do.
But if you ever watch me intraining, which you had, I can
double kick.
I could fast double.
I can not.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
So why did you do that?
Why did you do that?

Speaker 1 (47:53):
I did what the referees needed to see for me to
win, and I only did.
By the way, that's why I don'tblame the fighters.
You don't hear me blamingfighters.
I'm blaming the system becauseI only did what I needed to do
to win.
So if you watch a highlighttape of me, you would think I
was God's gift, or whatever.
You watch me, you'll watch afull match of mine.
You go get a coffee and comeback because I did just enough

(48:15):
to win and I did exactly what Ijust told you Round, kick, check
, round, kick back, kick back,hook kick.
The rest of it I didn't need todo.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Maybe that's the point.
Maybe that's the point, becausethat's what I see.
I can see all these kids can doall this stuff, but because the
system you fought against thereferees, we're fighting against
the system, and so they'redoing just what they need to do
and once in a while they'll getout of box and they'll do
something a little crazy, or youknow, some double kick or
something.
But I'm seeing good taekwondobut think about yourself.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
So I'm going to give you a challenge now, because
I'll talk about your performancein 88, which I think you won.
I'll talk about yourperformance in the later years
and then I'll talk about yourlast performance as an Olympian
and what I would say, and I'llask you what do you think, what
do you think the difference wasbetween your 92 performance and

(49:07):
your last performance, 2000?

Speaker 3 (49:11):
92 and 2000?
Well, 92 wasn't I mean?
If you ask me to be honest, Ithink I got progressively worse.
In a sense, I said when I wasyoung I was this monster that
could kill the world.
92, I was experienced and I wastrying to be perfect.
In 2000, you?

Speaker 1 (49:29):
got culture, you got, you got.
You got educated and culturizedand the juan moreno that was
juan moreno in 92, had youcontinued on that path and been
an outlier and been a visionaryand you took it and kept
evolving, that style and, by theway, what you what you say,
which is true learned what youneeded to learn to stay current.

(49:50):
You would have been unbeatablebecause of your size, your body
type, you know absolutely.
You tried, unfortunately, thecoaches you had tried to get you
to do too much taekwondo, likethey like to do taekwondo, as
opposed to the taekwondo thatyou listen.
You were.
I don't want to compare you toarlene lemus because that's not
a fair comparison to the eitherof you for different reasons you

(50:12):
were, though.
You were the arlene lemus ofthat division, meaning that you
went in with something thatpeople didn't expect you to be
able to do.
You didn't do a traditional cutkick, you did a very long,
extended.
You were ahead of your time,because if you were fighting now
, you had that length and thatflexibility off your bottom foot

(50:32):
.
If you had kept that part ofyour game, as opposed to trying
to become better at taekwondo,whatever your success would have
been different.
You had great success.
Nobody can.
It wasn't a bronze medal.
Whatever your success wouldhave been different.
Not, you had great success.
Nobody can.
You know it wasn't a bronzemedal, it was a, it was a silver
medal, and so it could and I'mjust teasing you, tj, I'm just.

(50:54):
You know I love you, love youyou thought I was about to cry
you know, ever since I saw youin that.
But anyway, the point being, ohso don't put my telephone number
up there.
You heard our new theme song,right?
Sorry, not Sorry.
Yeah, I heard it, dude, it'snice, I heard it All right.

(51:14):
But anyway, the reason I saythat is we can all second guess,
oh, if I had done this, if Ihad only done this differently.
The good news for me was I lostin 88.
And when I lost in 88, it gaveme four more years to refocus on
me and what I needed to do inmy way to win.
I didn't try to become a betterKorean style fighter, I just

(51:36):
tried to become a better mefighter.
And so that kind of worked outfor me, just because of the
nature of my weight division.
Your weight division wasdifferent and each of us had our
own challenges in our weightdivisions, and I would never
want to fight in either of yourweight divisions because the
amount of talent in thosedivisions was ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Six days to kill their division.
That's the hardest division,ridiculous, and that Cervak guy.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
I wouldn't want to fight that maniac.
No way I would want to fighthim.
He was just and, by the way,I'm lucky I was a middleweight.
I wouldn't want to fight awelter.
Welters were, you know, by andfar and large, the best out of
the heavier half of thedivisions, I'd go with welter.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Lightweight.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
I'd go with welter.
They had power and speed In thelower divisions, you know.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
know, I leave that to you guys because 68 yeah yeah,
well, I mean like with the whole, the whole game and the whole
style and the whole scoringsystem.
I think that's the one thing wetalk about the when you have
when it's a tall guy, short guy,middle of the ground guy.
But I think you could have yourown style back then.
Like you said, you did round,kick back leg and backspin hook,
like that would be good enoughback then because you knew how

(52:44):
to control.
That was your style.
Maybe the other guy was likeman, I can go this, this and
this, and you guys just had yourbattles.
That's why some matches weretougher than others.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Let me ask you a question.
You said something which isinteresting, because now you
went back to technique, but I'mgoing to tell you it wasn't the
technique that let me win, orhim or you.
What is the most importantthing in old style taekwondo?
What?
What is the maybe even a newstyle?
If you're talking to ataekwondo fighter, what is the

(53:12):
most important aspect that youneed to control?

Speaker 2 (53:14):
if you want to win, what is your ability not to get
hit?

Speaker 1 (53:17):
distance, like back then, for me it was distance,
yeah, distance not to get hit,yeah, you didn't.
So if you look, and that's whyI tell you, watch the stepping
in the foot.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
But that's the part that you don't like now.
You don't like the fact that Icould stand real close and kind
of take a lot of damage andnothing goes up, and then I can
just poke you in the eye andscore three.
I think that's the problem.
Now we're not, they're not soforced to move back.
We can just guard and try tokeep it off of our body.
What is he doing?
He do it.
He looks like he's doing yoga.
He's not a kid of a doer.
That's the difference, thoughI'm not in love with that part

(53:50):
either.
Before it was the distancecontrol and knowing how close
you were and how far you were,then fix it.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
You're not in love with it, then fix it.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
By the way, I loved old style taekwondo A lot of old
school stuff and a lot of sharpkickingondo.
I use a lot of old-school stuffand a lot of sharp kicking
stuff.
I focus on a lot of thosethings.
I think that's the way the gameis going.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
Here's the truth.
You want the truth and I'mgoing to tell you the truth now.
Had taekwondo been what it isnow, I wouldn't do it.
I would go do jiu-jitsu orsomething else.
I wouldn't do taekwondo If thiswas where I was headed and I
said, oh, this is where we'regoing yeah, but you wouldn't
have known, you wouldn't haveknown, you wouldn't have known.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
What do?
You mean, I don't believe that.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
I don't do ballet.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
Yeah, but if you saw this at the beginning, I mean
little kids, don't walk intothis and go.
Oh my gosh, I'll never do that.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
You didn't have to go through the generation of going
through your normal taekwondoand then actually switching over
to electronics, like that's thecraziest part right there,
going from all that stuff you'retalking about.
I'm talking about today, though.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
If I walked into a taekwondo gym right now and I
watched these guys.
I watched Via's team practice.
If I watched that, I wouldn'tdo taekwondo, I'd go do
jiu-jitsu or karate.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
But it's only because of what you know, but it's only
because of what you know.
If you're just a regular dad,they come in and they love it.
They're like wait a minute, I'mtelling you.
We fight all the time andpeople always ask can we fight
more in electronics?
Because you can see who wins,you can see what's rewarded and
what's not rewarded, and that'sappealing to moms, dads and kids
.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Fair enough.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
It's real.
I mean, again, I feel bad whenI make all these points because
I agree in the core of me, Iagree with you.
I think, dj, you do too.
Wait.
There is a lot of crappy stuff.
There is a lot of weirdbastardization of of taekwondo.
I don't like it, I don't agreewith it, but I I'm.
But at the same time I thinkthese athletes are are freaking
crazy good right now.
I mean the flexibility.

(55:43):
You have to be flexible, youyou have to be technical.
You have to kick the front legand back leg.
You have to be able to blockyou have to be able to you know,
and kick in a short distanceAgain.
A couple of years ago you couldjust play long distance.
You can't live like that.
That's how fast it changed.
It's like MMA, you know.
At one point everyone tookeveryone down, then there was

(56:03):
defense control, then it was allboxing.
People started learning how tokick the legs.
All this stuff is new in thissport, but it's becoming a
complete MMA.
And Taekwondo, I think, isbecoming more complete with this
system Not more complete thanwhat you guys did and what I did
, more complete on this system,because you cannot live on just
flexibility and front leganymore.

(56:24):
It's impossible.
There's no one that can do it,it's been a while and I think
that's why when I watch theseguys kick like old school like I
was I was going to say it's nobagging that we brought a really
good group here.
We got seven to eight peoplehere that are really good.
But when you watch theirTaekwondo, compared to these
kids, the way those, these kids,the way these kids' roundhouse

(56:46):
kick, the way their stepping is,you see our kids manipulating
things and doing well.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
So let me ask you another question, then, because
that's?
I've been studying Buddhism, asyou know, and my Buddhist
teacher was a taekwondo guy I'mtalking about.
You got to figure out who am Iand what is this.
So here is the start, yourclock, here is the uh, I got 14
seconds left.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
I'm saving you.
Yeah, here the episode endswhen it gets to zero.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Hold on, hold on, hold on so let me, let me ask
you a question.
So if you were to take, take amatch now, just understand what
I'm about to say.
Once you get ready, set it upreferees now that are skilled in
this, watching the game becausethey don't score anymore, right
, they they, they, the refereeslike the electronic went up, so

(57:33):
now they're watching the game.
They just give warnings, right,which is kind of good, because
not the brightest punch to startthe.
You take those referees and yousay sorry, kp and P, j, g, a
and J K, poo and poo are outtoday.
We need you to score it and, uh, we want you to score the match
Now.
Do you get the same result?
Referee, now, another understand, the referee understands what

(57:56):
what a lizard kick is, what ascorpion kick is, whatever, and
how is the outcome different?
If a referee scores the matchand the electronics score the
match, is the outcome different?
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
And if the answer is yes it is Okay so that's
different, because they won'tscore those cut kicks right,
they won't cut them.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
They won't score the cut kick.

Speaker 3 (58:14):
They won't score the cut.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
kick these referees, these referees only know this.
I don't think they would thesereferees only they would yell
and scream and the mom in thestands and they would press the
button for sure, but all thosemiddle ones that score, that you
don't really know score.
You know what I'm saying yeah,yeah, I think that twist, kick,
they would score.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Yeah, you know what's funny.
I'll change this up real fast.
How many referees, tj, do youthink?
What I don't understand is whenthere's a spin and the point
goes off and referees forget toget to push the button.
I'm like number one, that'syour job.
As soon as someone spins, youpush.
It's not up to you.
As soon as you see them spin,you push, you push, you push.
Head, push, push, push.
That's the only decision yougot to make.

(58:53):
Is the body or face right?
Actually, no, not even, becausetwo points is two points Extra.
I just don't get how to yourpoint, how?

Speaker 2 (59:01):
do you?

Speaker 3 (59:02):
miss that um?
How do you miss they're?

Speaker 1 (59:03):
asleep, they're asleep, they're asleep.
But you know the refereesaren't trained well.
And then you know you guys areaware of the effort we try to do
with the refs.
So when we, when we were doingthe coaching program which usa
taekwondo can say thank you andsend me a check, and the athlete
program, thank you, send me acheck the referees they were
next in line.
And when we did their thing andwe wanted them to sit down and

(59:26):
score the match with controllersthat would record and we could
then go through and educate themto say why did you score that
as a point?
What was?

Speaker 3 (59:34):
your thought process.
We got pushback when theydidn't want, they didn't want it
and they didn't want to be heldaccountable.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
then at the world championships, dr capner, myself
and, by way, listen to the list, capner, me, pasqual Hadi.
This is the level ofinternational competitors.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
That is sitting at the table.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Yep, we're sitting at the table and if there was a
protest, it came back to us.
We video reviewed, weoverturned 70% of those
decisions.
That was the last time weoverturned 70% of those
decisions.
That was the last time we weredone, because the refs were
threatened.
They were like guys whoactually did the sport and the
differences, but that's whoshould be the best referees.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
That's who should be leading the referees, but here's
judo, that's obvious.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
You don't get to judge the Olympics in judo
unless you've risen to a levelwhere you made it to the
quarterfinals or semifinals orsome level in judo.
How many?

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
athletes, how many athletes, how many athletes
actually want to referee?

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
they're all trying to coach I don't, I don't want to
referee either, but I and mypoint is but train them, train
them.
If you, I don't know soccer andI and I and I always say this.
So when I talk to people aboutsoccer, I can't say but I'll
tell you something I'm educatingmyself to a point where I do
know soccer, where if I were toreferee which I would never do a
soccer game I understand therules to tactics and strategy in

(01:00:54):
order to be a good referee.
If you're going to refereefighting, you have to understand
anticipation.
So when I'm watching you kick,if I'm scoring the match, I've
got to be able to understandthat you're going to round kick
it and Dr Capeman talks aboutthis all the time.
I know that if you're roundkicking the stomach, there are
some potentials.

(01:01:14):
That got to happen and my handhad to be ready to know what was
coming, what the potential wasand whether it worked.
Then I'm going to be within thewindow to score.
If I don't understand how thegame works or the strategy, I
can't possibly referee itbecause I don't know what I'm
looking for and when it happensit's too late by the time I make
that decision.
The crazy part, the crazy part.

Speaker 3 (01:01:34):
The only one that needs to do what you're saying
yeah, is a center referee,because the other ones their job
is just to push it.
You know they don't.
Like you said, they can go tosleep.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Turning or punching right.
How does punching score?
How does punching score now?

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
It's scored by referees.

Speaker 1 (01:01:50):
The referees.
They have something to do, but,by the way, it's hard.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
No, they're trying to take it away.
They got a glove because theydon't think the referees are
scoring correctly.
But you know what's funny?
The referees, I would say, andI'll debate with them, bring
them on.
I would bet that a highpercentage I'm going to say 90%

(01:02:16):
of them do not understand thestrategy of what coaches are
doing.
They're just trying to inflictthe rules, the word is inflict.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
That's the problem.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Well, yeah, I liked his choice of words.
That's a Freudian slip.
He wanted to say enforce.
He said inflict.
And inflict is because they'retrying.
They're only.
They have nothing to do exceptpunish.
And this is where the problem.
By the way, this comes fromKorean culture.
It's been a culture ofpunishment for a long time, not
reward.
They were beating people's feet, doing all sorts of weirdness,

(01:02:50):
and so when you understand thattheir thing is like oh, if you
don't want somebody to dosomething, hit them with a stick
.
It never occurred to them.
Like the nba, you want to seemore long distance shooting,
reward it, give it an extra.
You want to see less ofsomething?
Then you punish it or youreward the contrary, so that if
you want to see faster times onthe track, reward faster times.

(01:03:12):
You don't punish slower times.
You say, oh, you didn't make itacross the line in five seconds
.
You get 20 points less.
No, you say, hey, go across thepoint faster, you win.
And it's just kind of a dumb wayfor me to say it, but it's not
untrue.
And that's why, if you go to areferee seminar back in the day,
I don't know what they evenhave them for anymore.
It was a book of 40 to 50 to 60warnings and you spent time

(01:03:39):
learning how to properly go, andnow you spent most of your time
doing a proper uh abuse, asopposed to sitting him in a room
which we did and say, by theway, this is what a point looks
like.
I know you don't understandthis, but let's get the coaches
and the athletes in the room sowe can all agree what a point is
, which was our point, and nowwe all know what we're aiming

(01:04:00):
for.
Instead, you go and then theguy goes what you go?
Shut up, you cannot talk to me.
I am the referee, I am incharge.
I punch you in the chest, goback, sit in your seat, don't
ask me any questions.
You don't.
You don't get any knowledge it'ssecret, it's hold on, it's
secret and no one can know itexcept us, because we are royal

(01:04:22):
and high and we are higher thanyou and I'm laughing because
half the referees that reffed me, they were lower degrees than
me, obviously lower competitorsthan me, and they're going to
try to tell me what a point is.
Have a seat, let me help youunderstand what a point is, and
then maybe you'll have a chanceat judging a match fairly, so a
guy like me, guy like me or youguys, we can actually have fun

(01:04:45):
in the ring instead.
You're trying to.
Yeah, but leon preston'sdifferent last thing I'll say
start your clock, leon preston.
He said something which makessense.
He says the job of the refereeis to make certain that you
don't destroy the beauty of thegame.
And I go fair enough, if I'mdoing stuff to frustrate the
beauty of the game, I have fiveseconds, four, three.
Then I'm at fault.

(01:05:06):
Done.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Yeah, I think the referees have too many rules to
inflict, but I say it to enforceand then I think they choose to
inflict them way too often.
I miss the referees that justwould have a conversation with
you.
You know what I mean.
Like stand up, stop grabbing,because they know it's a part of
the game and the goal is tofigure out how much is it

(01:05:27):
affecting the game.
Everybody's pushing,everybody's grabbing, and you
kind of could deal with that.
All right, he sees me grabbing.
I got to do a little bit less.
You know, you kind of can workwith it.
But now, like he was and maybe Ithought it was three but it was
actually two Like we're justwe're calling stuff that
shouldn't matter and that'sbecause we got too smart.
We could hold at one point, wecould hold our leg in the air

(01:05:49):
the whole time.
You know we went from that tonow it had to be three seconds
and now it's three pumps and Imean we just keep changing it so
it keeps it.
I guess I don't even know theword is fair.
I don't referee anymore.
They just, like you said,inflict calm, johns, and you
know, watch you fall and tellyou to stand up, like that's the

(01:06:09):
one that drives me nuts tostand up if I'm injured, like
again.
I know some people fake and, youknow, do the whole little
acting thing, but some of itjust makes no sense at all.
But that's the issue.
But you're absolutely right, Idon't think.
I don't think that you don'thave to be a fighter to to
referee this game anymore.
You don't have to understand it.
You have to understand.
You should be at leastunderstanding one, two, what

(01:06:30):
three pumps look like.
You should understand what itlooks like when someone shin
blocks without actually tryingto stop the kick and follow
through.
I mean, there's little stufflike that that you should
understand.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
I think half the time they don't understand that and
everyone's calling it sodifferently and I know it's like
and everyone's calling it sodifferently and I know it's like
.
I have a friend that runs anorganization, the referee
organization, and I know it's ahard time but he has a hard time
sometimes but it's funnybecause you want to get these
young referees right.
But that means these youngreferees have little martial art
experience, little sportexperience and definitely little

(01:07:00):
competition experience.
And now they're sitting innational championships and team
trials and, and above and beyond, I was at a tournament in Miami
where I saw this ladyrefereeing like little kids and
everybody was talking about howatrocious she was and I was just
kind of like I feel kind of bad, I would kid you not.

(01:07:20):
10 days later I saw a refereeingat the Pan Am championships.
I was like I thought I Amchampionships.
I was like I thought I sawsomething.
I was like what that?
They were just in Miamicoaching or refereeing like
green belts and they were at thePan American championships.
I was just, I was shocked, Icouldn't believe it.
So that's the point yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Well it's a thankless job, right?
I mean I, yeah, well, it's athankless job, right?
I mean I it is.
I, I don't, I've tried, Ididn't, I've never won, I'd
never want to referee.
Every once in a while somebodywill grab me because I'm around
and they put me in a chair and I, I don't want to referee kids
because I hate disappointing akid and then sometimes they
don't do anything that's worthyof a point.
So how do you determine awinner?
And I don't want to be that guy, you know.

(01:08:02):
And then when I was, when I wasfive olympic gold medalist this
is why I don't do taekwondoanymore but you know, I don't
want to be that guy either,right, but on the other side,
then we shouldn't complain,right?
If you're not going to ref, youknow, then you know.
If you're not going to fix it,then whatever.
But refs listen, it's a hardjob six, seven, eight hours.
We shouldn't complain aboutreferees I no no, I'm saying

(01:08:23):
there's a good joke aboutlawyers.
They say what do you call ahundred lawyers at the bottom of
the ocean?

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
Hey, hey, hey, my daughter's about to be a lawyer.

Speaker 1 (01:08:30):
All right.
What do you call a hundredlawyers at the bottom of the
ocean?
A good start, good start.
Same thing with referees.
What do you call referees?
And the question is whenthey're willing to get educated.
I'm willing to help, so whenthey're ready to change?
The system which we tried to doin the past.
We tried to make betterreferees because you can make

(01:08:50):
them better and, um, you guystalking about that refereeing, I
was watching this tape thatcomes up on my feed you have to
pay them.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
No, you gotta pay them more for them to invest the
time to get better.
They got to be paid, like maybeyou want to teach them, but you
got.
I mean you got to give them areason.
They have to have a reason tolearn.
That's an organization.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
I don't disagree.
That's an organizationalchallenge and I think it should
be part of the tournamentexpense.
On the other, on the other sideof it, you should.
They should be held accountableif they do.
If they're not doing it right,they should be educated.
They should be sidelined tillthey get it right and then, when
they get it right, they get tocome back.
If they're caught cheating,they should be banned, and if
they're caught cheating twicethey should be banned for life,

(01:09:26):
like any other sport.

Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
And that's just the real thing, I said it forever
the WT for the Grand Prixs, theWorld Championships.
They should have a professionalreferee corps where they pay
these people X amount of dollars.
I'm sorry, bite the bullet, Paythese guys and then you apply
what the standards?

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
Don't they pay the demo team?

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
A lot, don't they pay for Jay and Steve's plane
tickets?

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
I mean, you probably don't know, but how much do an
international referee make?
Do they make?

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
money.
They get a per diem.
If you're going on aninternational referee, they
don't get paid plane tickets,but they may get a per diem.
Nope, no plane tickets.

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
No plane tickets.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
They can get their own way, so like the world
championships.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
No plane tickets A lot.
Sometimes some federations willpay for their referees because
it's like one or two, but Ithink the United States doesn't.
I'm not sure on that, but I wastalking to one guy and he said
that WT notifies them so closethan when the plane takes them.
It's so expensive.
They don't do it right now forWorlds.
You could be like, oh, let meget my ticket.
They'll let them know a monthbefore or something three or

(01:10:34):
four weeks before.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
But yeah, they just get it per diem, it's food.
Yeah, per diem, that's justfood and money.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Is it a big for DM though Like?
Is it like a big for DM Likethe U S?
The U S referees.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
At one point we get about 35 to 50 bucks.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
And then the international referees a day.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Yeah, which isn't you know?
That's not even dinner.

Speaker 3 (01:10:55):
I think they get like maybe a hundred, a hundred they
get a hundred, 150 now.
I think so, but international.
We're all playing ticketsthough.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
Well, as usual, we've gone long, but we have solved
no problems today.
But we've certainly createdmore problems, but at least I
finally got you guys to agreethat the current state of
Taekwondo sucks and the formatsucks and the rules suck, and
there's no new technique that'sbeen developed that has any
value.
The only thing that gets hurtin current Taekwondo car.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
You ever been twist kicked in the bottom lip?
You ever been twist kicked inthe bottom lip?

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
if I ever.
Can I tell you something if Iwere ever to be twist, kicked it
anywhere on my body, I wouldgive up the sport and take up
knitting.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
So if you allow yourself, front leg, flop you
before you spin you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
Yeah, I would right you could I will tell you this
you and I can fight the nexttime we met.
And you lift your leg to try tocancel me and I'll show you
what happens next.
So try to cancel my kick,Because I'm only kicking with
power to the bottom of your leg.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
Move around for about 35 seconds and here we are.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
Oh, no, no, I'll be tired.
No, no, I'm not lying, I'm 65.
I get tired thinking now.
So you know it's I'm old man.
But, as always, if you've beenoffended by anything that was
said in this podcast, you cantext juan moreno at or tj at,
and.
But for me, not sorry, sorry,not sorry, our new theme song.

(01:12:20):
I want to thank my host andhost and hostess with the
mostest, and recently up againstthe wall in his new dojang
there.
I like the color scheme whiteon white on white on white.
It's a beautiful place.
I like the other you know, andthen today again we're going to

(01:12:41):
have that GoFundMe continue.
And TJ is.
He needs an extension cord.
He hasn't heard of an extensioncord.
He's in the corner of his gymbecause that's where the outlet
is.
So he does a tour with the realestate agent and he goes oh,
this is a nice space, yeah, lookhow beautiful it is.
And he goes where's the outlet?

(01:13:02):
The guy goes it's all the wayback by the garage door.
He goes okay, maybe I'll put mydesk here and when people sign
up I'm gonna sign them up by thegarage door where?

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
yeah, where's your computer?

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
it's like if they're bad, we just kick them off the
ledge and we keep there's no,but there's no more outlets
anywhere in that gym there's onthe other side where all the
treadmills and stuff are.
But like I don't know, thismade most sense.
This heavy box was here, so Ikept it here.
I don't know what to tell you,I'll wait for you to send me an
extension cord, though you'redown to six seconds, five
seconds.
Close it off so we can go.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
All right, we're out thank you, that's been the
warehouse later all right,gentlemen.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Old School vs New: Debating Taekwondo's Evolution

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

Old School vs New: Debating Taekwondo's Evolution

Crime Junkie