Talent ID Camps: Money Grab or Genuine Development?

Three Olympic gold medalists engage in a no-holds-barred critique of USA Taekwondo's latest cash grab – yet another "Talent ID Camp" charging athletes $225 for a chance to be "discovered." The hosts unpack why this approach fundamentally misunderstands how genuine talent identification works in successful sports programs worldwide.

Drawing from their extensive experience both as athletes and coaches, they contrast USAT's pay-to-participate model with legitimate talent development systems used by countries like Australia and China, as well as private initiatives that return proceeds directly to participating athletes. The discussion reveals a troubling pattern of leadership treating the organization as a "personal playground" while members remain complacent.

Most revealing is their analysis of how America's most promising taekwondo talents are currently developing outside the national system. Athletes like Michael Rodriguez and North are finding success through private coaching arrangements, raising serious questions about the effectiveness of centralized training programs that force athletes to abandon successful coaching relationships.

With the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics approaching and America automatically qualifying four athletes as host nation, the team examines what this means for USA Taekwondo's development pipeline and Olympic prospects. Their candid conversation provides an insider's view of the challenges facing American taekwondo and what must change for the U.S. to maximize its potential on the world stage.

The podcast wraps with exciting predictions about the upcoming Grand Prix Challenge and reflections on what truly makes a champion – the right training partners, dedicated coaches, and the freedom to build on success rather than constantly starting over.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
From the dojo to your eardrum, here we come.
Perez Moreno, Jennings, thetriple threat, Olympic gold, no
doubt.
No regrets.
Warehouse 15, the truth weunpack.
No sugarcoating, no holdingback.

(00:22):
Sorry, not sorry for the wordswe choose.
If the truth stings, that's onyou, not us, to lose.
Tagpone goes raw.
We lay it bare.
Your feelings might bruise, butwe just don't care.
We speak our minds.

(00:42):
No apologies sent.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
This ain't Warehouse 15.
And today I am joined by myillustrious teammates, friends,
colleagues and contemporaries.
Coach Moreno, how are you, sir?

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Man, I'm great.
I'm fresh off my return fromyour new adopted home state of
California.
I was in Fresno, never beenthere before.
I found out that I was in themiddle of the state.
I found out that it's one ofthe biggest agricultural areas
in the country.
I cracked up because when I gotout I thought I was in Texas.
I never seen so many cowboyboots and big pickup trucks.

(01:24):
But let me tell you what greatfood.
People were super nice.
I went to Carter's Taekwondo.
They have a huge, over 10,000square foot facility, giant
place you could hold atournament in this area.
Their grandmaster is MasterCarter.
He's very prominent in the Kudaorganization.
Their son, austin, has a verygood team, a lot of young kids,

(01:48):
and got a chance to work withthem for a couple days and then
when we did matches at the endthese guys were scrappy.
These guys are tough.
Let me tell you, and you know,the California State
Championships is huge.
I mean, these kids are gettingyou know four matches, five
matches, and some of these boysin little girl division.
So they're four matches, fivematches in some of these boys
and little girl divisions.
They're tough.
I had a great time.

(02:08):
It was a wonderful experience,made some new friends.
It was awesome.
Now they're back to traininghere in Miami.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Good that you came out to visit California.
It is a big state.
Some people don't realize.
One of the biggest economies inthe world, not just in the
United States.
It's similar to Jersey, jersey.
You got a lot of industrialareas, you got a lot of business
areas, but then there's garden.
You're called the garden statefor a reason.
That's where I grew up and youknow.
If you go to certain parts ofjersey, you know you, you think

(02:36):
you were down south.
That's how beautiful it is andand and things of that nature.
So glad you came out.
Thank you for stopping by.
Sorry, not sorry, but I mighthave missed you on this trip.
But you know I don't drive toFresno because of the pickup
trucks and the cowboy boots.
But you're correct, he runs agreat program and has a big

(02:57):
facility and one of my favoritemilks, I think, is made out that
way Rossa's milk and it'sflavored and it might be fresno.
There's another big milkcompany out there because it's a
big dairy thing.
How you doing, mr tj?
How is everything going?

Speaker 4 (03:13):
so everything's good.
It finally stopped raining overhere, so just enjoying a little
bit of sun.
Not as crazy weekend, just someregular training stuff.
Just uh.
Always excited to get to ths,my therapy days.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Did you go to the ATU ?
I didn't go to the ATU.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
One of the guys that trains with me on the weekends,
went to the ATU.
He actually ended up gettingsilver.
Shout out to my guy Brody.
He's at Master Kim's school inSouth Carolina.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
He comes out on the weekends and trains with us.
It looked big, check this out,check, check this out.
There's a guy in florida and Iand I only know this because I'm
in a local tournament one timeand they're like juan moreno, to
ring three.
So I'm like what?
So I go, it's a localtournament, I run to ring three
and they're looking at me andthey're like no, no, not you.
And they're like one more.

(04:01):
I'm like I am juan moreno.
This kid comes up.
His name is juan moreno no, it'slike oh, I meet him, so I see
him in all the terms and Iremember when he's a yellow belt
and a green belt and he woulddo forms and fighting.
I would always watch him a goodlooking kid, nice kid,
respectful kid.
Um became a black belt.
Actually.
He trains with someone that Iknow and they would come on
tuesdays and thursdays and trainwith us a little bit.

(04:24):
And so TJ sends me the bracketand it's Juan Moreno, florida,
and he fights his guy.
And so then I didn't tell youthis, tj, his dad sent me the
bracket.
He's like I'm sorry, my son hadto beat the goat.
My son had to beat the goat andI'm laughing, but it's kind of
funny.
The same name from Florida.
It's kind of ironic.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
That's pretty cool, but it looked like a good
turnout there.
I didn't actually get to see it, but I know a lot of other
coaches that go out there forthe ATU Nationals.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's an up-and-down tournament here and
there.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Well, I just wanted to let everybody know that the
Kukiwon posted a board ofdirectors announcement Somebody
showed me for if you want a seaton the kooky one.
So I encourage everybody toapply because then they can deny
you.
You best not apply on your list.
Your name is Kim Lee or Parkand the historical Kim Lee or
Park, not Moreno, not Moreno.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
My name is Lowe.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, you can be assured they'll pick the usual
suspects and, uh, you'll gothrough the process.
So but it will, really it'llspeak volumes to kooky.
One's getting a lot of pushbackacross the world for its um
exclusionary practices and thentrying to make people take these
master courses which don't makeany sense and get recertified
to become a recommender of blackbelts something that people

(05:47):
have been doing for 40 or 50years and teach Taekwondo.
So, um, yeah, we'll see.
I mean we should apply just toapply, um, but we'll see what
happens.
But I, I may or may not applyand I, I encourage all of you to
apply, because you can't cryunless you apply, if you don't

(06:09):
enter the mix, um, you know, youcan't complain about the
results.
You can't win the olympicsunless you enter the olympics
and you can't win a lotteryunless you play it.
So I, that's my, uh.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Public service announcement you could be, but
we'll talk about that later.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
I got a quick factoid .
This is for all my hockeyfriends.
Do you realize that therehasn't been a Canadian team in
over 25 years that have won theStanley Cup, Matter of fact, in
the last six years six years,the Florida You're about to

(06:49):
start a war.
Listen to this.
This is my man, Mark Warburton,out there.
I know you're listening to me.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
I got you man Check this out.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Master Park, don't talk to me about those Winnipeg
Jets, man.
They got bounced.
Check this out.
In the last six years in theStanley Cup it's been Florida
teams the Tampa Bay went tothree Stanley Cups and won two
in a row, and now the FloridaPanthers in Miami not a hockey
town they've gone to threeStanley Cups in a row.
They won last year and we'llsee what happens this year.

(07:21):
I think it's going to be arepeat of Florida and Edmonton.
Edmonton, I think, actually hasthe advantage this time, so
Canada might get theirs.
But that's crazy to think thata Canadian hockey club with
Montreal, toronto, you know,winnipeg, calgary, Edmonton,
these powerhouses of teamshaven't won in 25 years, crazy

(07:42):
right.
Haven't won in 25 years, crazyright.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Well it's you know it's as I usually do.
I was able to find a picture ofthe Canadians playing hockey.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
So let me share this with you.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
Let me, let me.
Oh, I'm in the wrong thing, Iwent to the wrong place.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Let me try this with you, let me.
I'm in the wrong thing.
I went to the wrong place.
Let me try to go back.
Don't put the wrong thing up,don't put anything weird up
there.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Let me get the right thing up here.
Let me get where is my.
Let me try to find it back.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
I don't watch that much hockey.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
You don't watch that much hockey.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
I don't watch that much hockey.
You don't watch that muchhockey.
The carolina hurricanes man,carolina was in the finals.
I meant to go to a game when Iwas in colorado.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
I never actually made it to one.
Yeah, they're good too.
Yeah, stay in room.
I I know there you guys are Iwas trying.
No, I'm trying to find you guys.
Let me stop sharing.
Let me do it right because Idid it wrong.
Let me do it correctly.
Here is why can't I find it isthe question.
Oh, never mind, I'll show itlater.
I had it.
I don't know where it went.
So there's something absolutelywrong with me.

(08:57):
I don't know where it goes.
But anyway, let me not share itif I can't figure out how to do
it today.
But it would have been funny ifI could have figured out how to
do it.

Speaker 3 (09:07):
You missed it Timing is everything, coach.
Timing is everything, timing iseverything.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
You are correct, my friend.
All right, so let's get started.
What do we got today?

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Listen, I got to go off the bat, man, I got to swing
it.
Listen, it just came out.
Actually, me and TJ talkedabout it.
I was laughing at TJ because hemade a comment and I'm like you
got to be crazy.
They're coming out with anotherversion, three, tj, or four at
least three talent ID camp.

(09:37):
What Talent ID camp?

Speaker 2 (09:39):
They come out with more versions of the talent ID
camp than Tide comes out withversions of their detergent.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
And it's not just a talent ID camp to show what you
got, and we're looking forathletes for 2028 and beyond.
I'm like, first of all, if wedon't know out the athlete pool
in 2025 for 2028, I think we'rein trouble Because, to be honest
with you, you're, you're doneby 2027, right, tj?

(10:07):
I mean, you got to know whoyou're going to pick.
And so I'm just like again,maybe that was just a
misstatement or whatever, but Ijust I thought it was crazy.
And then, uh, my, my colleaguehere was like, man, it's gotta
be free, right's got to be free,right.
And I'm like, come on, it can'tbe free.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
So after a little, research by Coach Jennings.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
What did you find out , Coach?
How much, how much.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
I think it was like $2.75 for early bird or
something like that.
What?

Speaker 1 (10:37):
$2.75 for what Early bird?
That's what it said.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
Monkey said what 225 an ID?

Speaker 3 (10:46):
camp to show you what you got over two days, and of
course they're going to make alittle money on it.
They're going to take thesekids money or whatever, and I
don't know where they're goingto go.
Maybe they have a new invention, maybe they have a new system,
a new program.
I guess I always got to givepeople the benefit of the doubt,
but it's hard when it's beendone once, twice, three times

(11:06):
and I just lit a candle.
I lit a candle for taekwondo'sfate I just, you know, I, I, I
gotta say I mean, but there'speople that have done the talent
id camps and like I just don'tunderstand where they you you
did, you were, you forget tj no,I don't forget.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
You were in a talent ID camp that we created.
We met you, we saw you, weidentified you and we thought
you'd make great ramen.
No, no, we thought you weregood at taekwondo.
So we identified you as a guywho was good for taekwondo.
And how much did we charge you?

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Zero.
You know I asked Coach Randallthat question.
It's crazy because my mom camedown and she bought me a bunch
of stuff from you know, thestuff she kept over the years,
and it was a letter from theVirginia state president saying
you know, you've been selectedfrom Virginia to go to the OTC
for a training camp.
And then there was a letterfrom Coach Hanwan Lee at the
time, back after the trainingcamp.

(12:01):
You know, kind of like sayinglike I did this good, this good,
you know I have all this blah,blah, blah, blah and I kind of
was kind of cool to look back tosee the following of you know
where the, where it started,kind of where it went to and
like the exchange.
But I know they've done this,this before.
I just don't.
What do you do?

Speaker 3 (12:28):
What's different this time, you know what, of not
acknowledge the fact that it'sjust.
It just kind of.
You know, happened they, youknow they went to these talent
camps and then nothing and thennothing.
But I mean, and again I'm letme first of all the talent id
camp that you went to a longtime ago.
That was for adults and seniorsright, you know, juniors
transitioning in it was a veryselect group.
Um, of course it didn't cost.
You got your hotel, you gotyour, you training was free, the
, the eating was free and therooming was free at the old TC
at a time.

(12:49):
So it's just a different era.
But, like, I want to just talkabout the now and the present,
because you know we've had thesethings.
Some of them are pretty big.
I think the early ones werevery big.
I think they've they've shrunkas we've gotten down the line,
because I think people are alittle bit skeptical.
But I know there's a big one inTexas that was run extremely
well by coach Johnny Jambi andyou know they they brought in a

(13:11):
bunch of people and they made alot of a good chunk of change
that was hopefully supposed tobe reinvested in those kids, and
I'm not sure, if it was I don'twant to talk ill will cause I
don't know, but I've heard.
I don't know the details so Ican't talk 100%.
But I guess my point is likewhat Two days?
You got two days.
Is it for kids?
Is it for seniors?

(13:32):
Is it for juniors, is it forboys?
Is it for the girls?
Cadets, what is it for how longis it going to be three coaches
?
What if they get 100 peoplethere?
They got 100 people for threecoaches.
Like, what are we doing here?
I just think it has to be alittle bit more thought out.
The timing of it is, I think,one week after the Nationals, I

(13:52):
think roughly at the same timethat the under-22 kids are going
to the Pan Am games.
I know there's no perfect timehere.
I am building excuses, but Ijust was a little bit frustrated
when I saw that, because comeup with something new.
I mean they have this newseminar series that they're
doing with a bunch of people.
Okay, great, it's building somemoney for those guys.

(14:15):
I guess, maybe building moneyfor the organization, that's
great.
It's giving information out tothe different areas.
I think that's all great.
I mean it is what it is they tothe different areas.
I think that's all great, Imean, and that's, it is what it
is.
You know they call it, you knowtheir level up.
But this talent ID, when yousay that, it just wow.
It just sparks a reaction fromfrom me and a lot of other
people, a lot of other coaches,like we've done this before, two

(14:36):
or three times, and here we goagain.
So I don't know.
That's my, my quick rant forthe day.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Well, talent ID.
So when you create ahigh-performance plan for the
uninitiated, a high-performanceplan is required by the US
Olympic Committee in order forthem to disperse funds to your
sport from the Olympic winnings,from LA and LA is another story

(15:10):
we should talk about at somepoint because they're going to
have some challenges but youtake that money which the
Olympic Committee invest in theOlympic Foundation and some
other things, and the money thatit makes through its
sponsorship deals and itallocates it to the sport.
So in Taekwondo's case, theyallocate a certain amount of
money and in order to get thatmoney, you have to put a plan
together called a highperformance plan.
And in order to get that money,you have to put a plan together
called a high performance plan.
One component of that is youneed to demonstrate how you're
going to find talent in thegrassroot level, what you're

(15:31):
going to do to develop them,what you're going to do to get
them into the pipeline.
The pipeline goes fromgrassroots, which is where all
of us live as small coaches, insmall facilities, which is in
small facilities, and then, asyou go up through that pipeline,
you go into the differentlevels of elite State levels
should be regional levels andthen obviously national teams

(15:52):
and then your elite, elitecompetitors.
But when you do this ID, theidea is access and inclusion,
not exclusion based on economicsor relationships.
And what we've seen with theUSAT's model is it's
exclusionary and it's costprohibitive in a lot of cases,

(16:14):
and that's not the original ideabehind the ID, the ID model.
I'll give you one from anothercountry.
Australia goes to publicschools and it does a series of
tests, athletic tests on kids.
China does the same thing andthey're biometric tests.
They might look at a kid'sability to throw, jump, run,
stop, whatever, and then throughthat they identify a pool of

(16:38):
athletes and then they kind offunnel them to sports and give
them access to the sports thatthey think might be helpful for
them.
And so towards that end, thequestion is, what is Taekwondo
doing?
Is it a money grab or is it atrue talent grab?
And in true talent grabs andidentification you talk to local

(16:58):
coaches.
And I'll give you again anotherthing from my life.
In my situation there are localscouts that come around to all
these various games and they goto clubs where they know there
are good players or there'sgoing to be good games and they
watch kids.
They then identify that kid,they track the kid and then, if
they like the kid, they invitethem to a talent the equivalent

(17:20):
of a talent ID camp, of a talentid camp.
And in my situation with my son, that's how he got invited to
this earthquakes uh camp right,a professional team.
Because they watched them, theytracked them, they told us
we've been tracking him, we wantto see him now in our
environment, come on trial.
And you know how much it costzero, nothing, nothing, not a

(17:42):
dollar.
We didn't spend a dollar, wedidn't have to spend a dollar.
We went to this training thingand it was.
And that's what the colleges do.
They come out and Zero, nothing, nothing, not a dollar.
We didn't spend a dollar, wedidn't have to spend a dollar.
We went to this training thing,and that's what the colleges do
.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
They come out and they're like hey, we want to see
you guys in town.
I thought this one would befree because it was at their
location.
I thought you know what I mean.
We're not talking overhead.
We're not talking shiftingsomeone's schedule.
We're not even at this point.
I'm not going to talk about anyof that stuff.
I thought I was going to befree.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Well, apparently USA Taekwondo is Spirit Airlines, so
USA Taekwondo has become SpiritAirlines.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
Yeah but when you talk about, like you said,
identifying talent and trying toget people in a room, we're
talking over the span of twodays.
How many people I mean?
That's a lot to ask.
No, ass.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
No, we're talking flights you're talking, you
gotta ask yourself what yourgoal is.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
I don't know I guess that's the question, that the
goal of the whole.
Like you said, we could bewondering what's the goal of the
talent id stuff I I've heard.
Well, coach merendel saidsomething.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Good too, coach said listen what do you do with the
money?
In other words, I don't mindtalent id money.
So if you say we're going totake um 250 because we don't, by
the way, they're doing thetalent ID wrong.
If you, if the way your kid'sgetting to it is he pays $250,
then you are wasting people'stimes.
You're wasting time.

(18:52):
You need to get guys thateither you identify or people in
your, in your club, and guesswhat happens?
In other words, in in soccer,for example, if our coach
recommends a guy to go on trialor says the guy is good and the
guy sucks, that club doesn'tcall us anymore.
You know they're like he goes.
I'm not putting myself out onthis kid because it it comes

(19:14):
back they don't trust me anymore.
And so when they call stanfordto come watch kids, that's
because they think stanford willbe interested in the kid.
They don't say that thatdoesn't go.
Hey, can you get me an inviteto go to Stanford?
Or here's 250 bucks.
You know you gotta be.
It's talent first.
Now if you took that money,let's say you did charge your
money.
That's not a talent ID camp,that's a training camp.

(19:35):
That's a different thing.
Talent ID, even a reach, is totake that money and then what do
you do with it?
Well, if you did something withit would be we've identified
you guys.
We need this money becausewe're going to take a small
group of people we choose andtake them on a trip somewhere
and put them in internationaltraining facility.
Now you go.
Okay, I'm investing in thegreater good.

(19:55):
That money's going and set itto jay warwick and uh and steve
mcnally's plane tickets.
It's going to something thatmatters you know I mean so, tj.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
I don't mean you talk privately one time about okay,
if you're trying to identifytalent, herb, you'll talk about
it in soccer stuff.
Look, go to the Nationals, goto the team trials.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Go to the.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
US Open Like, be there so you could actually
identify them.
You wouldn't even have to havethis open cat call because you
would be able to identify them.
If you can't do that, somethingsimple as if you won a medal at
the U?
S open or at the nationalchampionships that qualifies you
for it.
We've identified you throughyour winnings and then you come
in there and if you right, or ifyou're going to do just a USA,

(20:38):
take one no summer camp or twoday training camp, do it, take
the money and just say what itis.
We're offering things, we'regiving you a service and we're
charging money for it.
But if it's an ID camp andyou're charging for it, it gets
a little mixed.
I mean, I'm going to talk goodabout Alex Covert.
Alex Covert has this Taekwondounion First started out in the
Great Lakes, now we've got themall over.

(20:59):
I'm going to one this weekend.
I'm not saying it's the perfectmodel, but what he does is he
gets people together.
They come and all the coaches.
They break them up bycategories.
The coaches take turns coachingeverybody.
They fight in the afternoon anddo matches, test matches, in
the late afternoon and then heturns around and gives them

(21:20):
money immediately right back tothe coaches all vote these five
cadets, these five juniors,these five seniors, and if they
make ten thousand dollars, theygive each person 200 bucks.
If they make 20, they give them500 bucks.
Whatever, the only thing that'staken out is the expenses for
the gym, um, the mats.
Like that, nobody makes money.
They give it right back.

(21:40):
That's a great initiative, youknow I keep looking.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
I'm looking for my in .
I was looking for my invite toone of these events.
I'm looking everywhere.
I haven't seen it.
So maybe Alex doesn't know me.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
Oh well, actually I think they're just starting in
California.
They're doing a lot on theMidwest to the West East Coast
right now.
To be fair, he's just startingout.
He did this as a private thingin Great Lakes and he did it
with Michigan, chicago, indiana,canada and he just expanded it
this year, starting in January.
So I know the New York area isgoing on.

(22:13):
Their second one, florida downhere it's called the East Coast,
is their second one and again,I'm not saying it's the best or
whatever, but it's a greatinitiative.
It's action-orientated, it'sgiving back to the athletes and
it's a great initiative.
It's action orientated, it'sgiving back to the, to the, to
the athletes, and it's just it'screating a community.
For that I got to applaud them.
I mean, I've got a bad thing tosay about it, you know it's.
And again, it's a private guydoing these things.

(22:36):
You know what I mean.
When I see that, I'm like howcan the organization not do
bigger and better?
So just a little bit of a, alittle pet peeve right now for
me.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit sour on that no,
you said it, you said it right,and I I love people that do
private things.
You know, I got a call from afriend of mine, uh, talking
about something that you, you'vebeen talking about.
So they're trying to figure outwhere they want to invest their
time and money and coverage.
And he asked me about the uh,whatever that thing is called
that um, rick shin, what's it?

(23:09):
Combat Taekwondo, and so theymay reach out to Rick and talk
about that.
But that's a private effort todo something that's well-funded,
and I think when you privatizesome of these efforts, you've
got to kind of talk about it.
Your program, the PeakPerformance thing, was a
privatized development programthat had great success and did

(23:29):
something that other people havebeen unable to do in a new way,
in a very creative andentrepreneurial sense, that
others couldn't do, and so Ithink there is room for growth
in entrepreneurial efforts toexpand the reach of Taekwondo,
and those are private.
Let's be clear If you come to aprivate program, there are
private expenses associated withit because you don't have the

(23:50):
Olympic purse strings on it.
So I applaud those privateefforts to fix it.
But the question then becomesif you go to a private camp.
Let's be clear you get betterservice and you should, because
you're paying a premium pricefor better service.
If you go to a public healthcare facility, for example, you
don't get the same level ofservice if you go to a public
healthcare facility, for example.
You don't get the same level ofservice if you go to a private

(24:14):
health care.
So people pay for what theywant.
So I don't expect USA Taekwondo, I really don't expect anything
from them, but I don't expectthem to be able to provide the
same service that a private guymight be able to provide.
But on the same token, for whatthey get from the Olympic
Committee and for what themembers get charged.
And they should get some levelof service and expectation and

(24:37):
inclusion, not exclusion.
And I think what we always comeback to is we come back to this
thing where we realize thepeople at the helm either they
have two possibilities and wealways say this One is they're
ignorant or naive, or the otherone is they just don't care.
So if they're naive and theydon't know better, that's a

(24:58):
different problem.
If they're ignorant, that'sworse, because they should know
better.
And then if they're justprofiteering, that's the worst.
And I think we find ourselvesin a situation where the chicken
the fox is watching the chickencoop for for that's a TJ
analogy for North Carolina andthe the fox and the chickens
don't care and, more importantly, people don't realize they are

(25:21):
the chicken.
They got the foxes, which areJay, steve at crew and pastor
schmoogie boogie.
He and them are running theorganization to their personal,
like their personal playground,and they're allowed to why?
Because the chickens don't care.
So you know, in a weird way,you and I and tj, we complain

(25:41):
every week.
The people that should becomplaining aren't complaining
or if they're complainingnobody's listening I don't think
they're complaining.

Speaker 4 (25:53):
Every time I see an initiative or a post or a topic,
it's always some really random.
There was one last, when I wasstaring at a brick wall for
about three and a half minutes,some video they put up and I
don't know what that was, butanyways, um, you know it's even
sorry.
You know it's even more crazyto me because we are getting the
olympics in la right, the leadup to it.

(26:14):
We don't have any grand prixshere like an actual grand prix,
not a challenge, I mean likeactual grand prix leading into
olympic games, like that's.
That's like that's crazy to me.
Being united states of america,we, we should have an actual
great.
There should be a a was a g6,now g6 grand Prix in the United
States leading up to LA right.
It should.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Or Pan Am Championships or something.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Something big right.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
You know, part of me thinks that they don't care
because they know they got theirfour people, so they're going
to qualify it already.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
And you said that correctly.
In other words, when they'rethe host, they automatically get
four.
So have they fallen asleep atthe wheel?
They don't have to qualify now.
All they got to do is choosewe're still getting eight,
though.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Eight, it was eight.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Did we say eight.
No, they said eight.
No, you only get two.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
They said we're going to dominate in 20.
Oh, that's what they said.
We're supposed to get alldivisions.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
I heard one of my friends in the Board of
Governors.
They said that it should befeasible to get eight people.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
It's very reasonable for them to do it.
How?

Speaker 3 (27:25):
I mean that's just a ridiculous statement Feasible.
I mean, first of all, nocountry has ever done that,
certainly not the United States,when there's Iran and Korea and
Russia, I mean no one's done it.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
But let me understand what that means.
So the US can pick four.
They pick four spots becausethat's the max allotment, right?
Or is it 18 max?
They get two and two.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
Two and two is automatic, but what possibly
possibly could happen?
You could qualify four and fourby the olympic ranking.
So if you get top five in theor the grand slam, let's say top
five and fin weight,featherweight, welterweight,
heavyweight, and the same thingfor men and women, theoretically
name one country that's everdone it that's my point no yeah,
nobody has so all of a sudden,america is going to do it.

(28:05):
I mean, listen, it's a greatgoal, we should have some goals,
but I think y'all's I goals.
But I think we should be in thebusiness of being realistic too
.
So I mean, have lofty goals,but that's a little bit much.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Well, with 2026, and let me ask you both a question
then In your estimation in 2026,which is two years from the
Games, I can think back topretty much any Olympic year and
I probably could haveidentified the people that were
going to be the Olympians twoyears later.
Pretty much, if you looked at86 to 88, 90 to 92, 98 to 2000,.

(28:42):
I can tell you I could namethem without even thinking and
it was pretty clear two yearsout, and with the exception of
you on the, you were on the cuspright, you.
But even then I would have said, I would have said in 86, you
were on the cusp right, you can,you'll be within uh realm of it
all.
So where?

Speaker 3 (29:04):
are they?
Where are they now?

Speaker 2 (29:05):
where are they now?

Speaker 3 (29:06):
well, right now, I think that these guys have I
think they do have a couplepeople that they think,
especially on the men's side,which is is a little bit strange
, kind of going into this wholeprogram, kind of kicking back to
the talent ID program.
We're stuck with the same twooriginal people that came in
seven years ago.
I'm just going to say CJ andJohn Healy.
Those are the two males thatare on the national team from

(29:28):
the academy.
They're from the original group, the academy.
They're from, they're from theoriginal, the original group.
And yet they're still here andthere's not another one what
about this?

Speaker 2 (29:37):
mike mike rodriguez, kid, you talked about, yeah, I
mean, but he's not with them.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
I mean that's that's, that's my guy, that's tj's guy,
right?
I mean that's a guy that wewe've done, we've developed and
we brought up.
But I listen, if I had to, if Ihad to bet right now they're
going to leave him on theoutside.
They want these other two guys.
I mean we're going to have twoyears.
You know everyone's going tohave two years because all these
things, all these points aregoing to get reset and we're
going to see, starting next year, who can really put up.

(30:06):
Yeah, it's going to be.
It's going to be.

Speaker 4 (30:07):
It's crazy Cause, like I mean again, every country
is going to go through this atthe exact same time.
But going back to zero twoyears out, it's a race.
At that point it's up north.
He's a good young kid.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
He's going to fight 74-80.
He's going to be at this GrandPrix.
He's been training in Europe alot.
He goes back and forth betweenEurope and Fort Lauderdale with

(30:37):
his father.
They have a good rhythm.
I give the kid a lot of credit.
He's like 18 years old.
He's fighting big matches.
He's winning some.
He's losing some.
He's meddling all the time.
I mean he's just like any upand coming athlete.
He doesn't look afraid.
He stands in front of anybody.
He's in hard out.
He's not going away.

(30:57):
He pulls matches out.
When he's dominating hedominates.
So I think he's going to givesome 80 guys, especially in our
country, a run for their money,and I'm saying that right now.
I mean, give the kid two years.
It's the same thing withMichael Rodriguez Young,
obviously fearless.
He still has a lot to prove,just like everybody.
But if I got to bet, I'mbetting on those two young kids.

(31:20):
If I got to bet, knowing whatthe Olympic age range is, I'm
investing heavily in those twokids.
The ironic thing is both ofthose kids are doing well
outside the program, outside theprogram.
Now, will the program assistthem and add to what they're
doing?
Will they cut them off?

(31:40):
Will they require them to come.
That's going to be a questionthat's going to be probably
talked about over the next sixmonths.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
You got to get away from that requirement to come
stuff though.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
Like I said, like it, just like I said yeah like it
just doesn't make any.

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Again.
You I I said it last podcastlike I was allowed to stay and
train in a certain place becauseI had success there.
But when I first joined thewcap program I had success there
, so I was allowed to keepbuilding, at least going in that
direction, as opposed to up,like you said, changing your
whole system, change your wholetraining plan, relearning and
not building from where you areuntil you almost get to that
brink where you need to possiblygo somewhere else.

(32:13):
I think we're doing it tooearly.
I don't TJ.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
I'm going to tell you something.
This model is the new model,and I'll tell you why.
Even Mexico, mexico, has themost traditional national
program out there.
It's known from cadet, junior,junior.
You make the team, you go.
And brisaida acosta was one ofthe main people that lived in

(32:38):
miami.
She left her program, she cameto miami, she trained with me.
We got her to the olympics.
She won a pan am game, she wongrand prix medals and she won
world championship medals, andshe was one of the first people
that left.
They let me coach at theOlympic trials First time ever.
Now, guess what?
Carl Sensores is training theheavyweight.
He's training by himself.
Guess what?
Daniela I forgot her last nameDaniela is training.

(33:02):
She's training outside with herpersonal coach.
So both of her two Olympiansare not in the program, they're
outside.
Why?
Exactly what you said, tj.
They're having success.
They don't trust the format,they have their own private
coaches, they have a history ofsuccess, and so I don't know if
the Federation is allowing themto.
I don't know what, but it'shappening, and I think the same

(33:23):
thing is happening right now inAmerica.
You're having kids, they'rehaving success, outside of the
program and I think theFederation should support them,
should help them.
I mean, if they're gettingtheir butt kicked and they're
not performing, you pull backthe funding.
But if they're doing good, youreward them or you assist them.
If you truly believe them, youassist them.

(33:47):
So maybe this means it.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
So the Olympic Committee has has historically
and I'll go down to somethinglike, which will make sense for
you, for all of us andespecially you guys when you
watch an nba team and you lookat their uniforms, are they all
the same?
Yeah, on a team, one particularteam yeah, they are they all
wear the same thing when youlook at their sneakers, are they
all the same?

(34:09):
Maybe no, no, and you know whythey figured out that only
college yeah, the athletesrealize that they need to have
their performance enhancingequipment.
Well, guess what?
Performance enhancing startswith training.
It's the most important part ofperformance enhancing.
You don't change the thing thatbrought them to the table,

(34:32):
because that's the thing thatenhances their performance.
Nothing is more important thanwhere you train, how you train
and who you train with.
That's where true performancestarts.
So why would you, unless youhave a better system, right, and
and I'm living this at thismoment, right?
So it's kind of personal whereI'm having to think about this

(34:52):
thing and you know, um, you putyourself in the best training
environment you can with thebest coach.
So if you feel you have thebest coach and it's an
individual sport, by the way,taekwondo, with the exception
that you train with other peoplefor your personal training you
find the best training situationwith the best training partners
you can.
If you have it and you thinkwhere you're going doesn't have

(35:15):
as much or not the right partner, whatever, then you stay where
you're at.
And I'm living this right nowagain in my life with my son,
right, because he's in a greattraining facility with a great
training partner, but he'd beenoffered a level up with, you
know a level up of every playeron the field, and so now it's a

(35:37):
tough choice.

Speaker 3 (35:37):
Different because you got teams.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
You got teams, you know and that is it is different
, but different in a differentway.
In other words and this you'll,you'll understand this.
Uh, both of you'll understandthis.
It's different, but notdifferent.
Because when you train, you andI and all of us two things
mattered to us.
Number one, the coach.
Number two, the most immediatething, was the training partner.

(36:02):
If you had a great coach butyou didn't have anybody to fight
with, somebody to train with Ihad Kevin padilla, I had mark
williams, I had, later years,sean burke, these guys like this
.
But now, if I didn't, if Ididn't have that and I, let's
say, I went to the olympictraining center at that time who

(36:23):
would I have?
I would have had you.
Maybe, and you're, you know, 50pounds lighter than me.
That that doesn't enhance mytraining.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
But that's where I was going to go with that.
Honestly, see, that's a goodpoint, because there's a myth
that you have to have somebodylike the exact same as you,
because, for example, whatweight was Kevin Padilla?
What?

Speaker 4 (36:45):
weight was Mark Williams.
Yeah, feather, yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Featherweight and you were a middleweight and those
were great training partners foryou.
Yeah, sometimes you get Better.
Yeah, sometimes you might havesome people need a heavier, some
people need a lighter, somepeople just need someone that
works like I'm going to saysomething on a personal level
and TJ, you know this, we had alot of people in our room that
nobody ever knew, but they weregood training partners.

(37:08):
They were.
You knew if you neededendurance, they were there.
You knew if you needed a back,you need a speed guy, you need a
, you need someone to scrap with.
We always had somebody and evennow I feel like we have certain
guys that I I got a big guy, Igot a featherweight, I got a
lightweight, I got amiddleweight.

(37:31):
I got all these people.
They probably won't be worldchampions, they won't be
pan-american champions, but putthem in the gym.
These suckers can fight, theseguys can fight and they know how
to work with your people.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
So, yeah, yeah, I, I go, I go back and forth about
that.
I think I've had, like I saidI've.
I've had some really goodtraining rooms, even in virginia
, when a lot of ivory coast guyswere coming over and she's had
were coming over.
I was always in an intensetraining room and I was actually
one of the athletes that Iswitched at one point to get to
an intense training room to getthat shock and that injection
back.
So I can understand both sides.

(38:01):
I think that part's a myth.
I don't think we're at thatstage anymore.
I think you again.
I go back to how about, if it'sworking, let's start there
first, like we don't go?
Just because it's workingdoesn't mean let's move.
How about you ask the questionof what do you need?
How about that question?

Speaker 2 (38:18):
What do you feel you need?
That's historically what thequestion was.
That was always asked, and thequestion is what do you need to
be successful?
What can I do to enhance yourability to be successful and if
you don't start with thatquestion yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
Yeah, no, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
If you don't start with that question.
The only reason not to startwith that question is if it's
clear that the athlete you'reworking with has no clue.
Either they're too young or thecoach doesn't understand, and
yet you just are.
They're lightning in a bottle.
They have, they've beensuccessful just because they
have ability and talent.
Right, then you have adifferent conversation.

(38:55):
It's like what are you doing?
Well, you know, I'm running upthe mountain three times a day
well, that has nothing to dowith your success.
Right, so you know.
But if you do have athletes whoare in good programs, with good
coaches, with historicalsuccess, what are you doing?
Why are you trying to undo what?

Speaker 1 (39:09):
are you?

Speaker 2 (39:10):
why are you trying to undo his success you?
Know and the list of athleteswho have changed, who have tried
and failed.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Because of that is very long right but you know
what the another model is like.
I mean again, first, when Ifirst went to brazil they get.
I took a pad of paper.
I went to nationalchampionships.
I sat down almost every head oftable right next to referees,
people looking at me didn'tspeak the language and I was
just watching fighters and I'dbe like, oh, match 115, what's

(39:38):
his number?
And I would go back and I'm like, hey, we need to look at these
guys.
And then we didn't have moneyto bring them to all the place,
but we could introduce ourselves, find out where they live, find
out what state they're from andhook them up with a coach over
there and let's see if we cankind of get them.
And that's another thing.
I mean, you guys, if we seesome tall, fast, rocket, like

(40:00):
you said young, and we say, man,you live in North Carolina,
hang out with, go see Coach.
Oh, you live in Virginia, gosee this coach, wherever it is,
we should be able to hook themup with somebody and maybe, if
they get good enough, you know,you bring them out.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
But anyway, you know I would be called a network.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
But TJ, I mean, I know it'skind of hard because I know we
don't know all the names Anybodykind of fast forwarding?
Anybody that you're lookingforward to seeing fight in the
Grand Prix Challenge?

Speaker 4 (40:34):
I think overall for me, to be honest with you, I
think that all the brackets arepretty exciting.
It's like a good mix of people.
I don't really have any, I'mnot sure the energy or level
that's going to go into thistournament.
I hope it's high-paced, I hopeit's big action, I hope it's and
for me, I hope it's all thematchups that everybody don't
want to slash, do want to seeLike.
I want it to be one of thosetournaments.
I miss those days.

(40:55):
I know it'll still be a rankingand it still falls in order,
but I want it to be since itdoes.
It's like the building year.
It's the get us to the nextstep, like let's.
I hope it's lightning.
You know what I mean.
I hope it sparks you know.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
You know what's funny .
I was thinking like, forexample, I want to see how some
of the old school guys do, likethe old school guys, the past
Olympians, like, for example,vito from in 58, he won Olympic
medal.
He got injured at the lastOlympics and now he's back.
He looked really good in Europe.
I'm going to see how he does inthe 58.
I think 68 is always a.

(41:29):
It's a.
It's a blow up crapshoot.
There's a bunch of Russians inthere.
We have a lot of people thatmoved up in categories.
So I think it'll be interesting.
Of course, I want to see myyoung boy go, michael, I want to
see you and him, you know,match up with some, probably
some pretty difficult people,but it's part of the process.
80, I told you, I want to seethese young.
I want to see Victor fight withsome of these up and coming 80

(41:53):
guys, heavyweights I don'treally know too much.
I hope the energy is high, butit'll be interesting to see if
everyone ramps it up, knowingwhat you said, knowing that it
counts.
But it doesn't count.
It's not like the real GrandPrix where it's 40 points and
it's in the Olympic year.

(42:14):
It's a Grand Prix challenge.
They're going to reset anywaynext year.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
I hope they take it as one of those.
I hope that everyone showed up.
Like it's a tough tournament.
It's probably the best fieldyou're going to get on this side
of the world right now, youknow yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
You know yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
If I'm being, if we're being honest like this is
the best the field you're goingto get on this side.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
For sure.
But like, for example, I don'tthink other countries are like
this.
But you know, tj, we looked atsome of the American list and we
got five people to get in eachin each weight category.
We have some people like thatthey haven't done anything

(42:55):
anywhere and they're going tothis grand prix challenge.
I mean, it could be some, itcould be some lights out.
I mean because some of theseother countries won't know right
, they just see american.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
It might be a little rough for some of these cats.

Speaker 3 (43:00):
It might be a little rude awakening.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
You know we're gonna see but I'm, I hope it's good.
What about you?
Anybody that's like you said?
I know you said, uh, you knowmichael was standout stuff, but
uh, anyone in particular?

Speaker 3 (43:11):
I want to see all the Olympic medalists.
I want to see how they come,because historically, you know,
young people come out.
I mean that's the bullseye.
I want to beat that guy.
I mean it's almost like a whatdo you call it a moral victory.
I want to see if I can take outan Olympian, you know, take out
an Olympic champion.
So I think it's going to bereally interesting to see how
they are they ramped up to moveforward or are they just kind of

(43:37):
like, uh, living in the past?

Speaker 4 (43:38):
it's gonna be tough for them.
Well, I think this is thebiggest one, if I'm not gonna
say this is probably the biggesttournament that I've like
that's been in my country or ourcountry since I've started
taekwondo and like like for me,for me, for me, that I could
have possibly got to and watchedand everything as far as like
this new modern game anyways,with with electronics and
everything I'm a little happy.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
I was thinking about, if I'm not mistaken, I think 11
or 12.
We have 11 or 12 peak athletescoming from our programs and
that's from countries likeCanada, Haiti, from Puerto Rico,
from the United States.
Where does, oh my gosh, wheredoes elsan fight for not?

(44:18):
got me not um I was about to saygo bone.
I mean I think it's gonna beinteresting to see our you know,
our kids.
I mean we have some young onesthat are raw and we have some
old ones that are trying to seeif they can still do it.
So I'm excited for them.
You know, I'm excited for ouryou know I'm excited for our
kids when is the event?

Speaker 2 (44:36):
When is it?

Speaker 4 (44:38):
Every week, every week.

Speaker 1 (44:41):
Well, because it's between, like you know, I have
like it's on, so what?

Speaker 2 (44:46):
I do is I have like a list of priorities and then I
prioritize rather things and Iput them in the same category.
So like, for example, learningKorean, it's in like the same
category as like readingBuddhism.
And then I have doing Taekwondo.
That's, like you know, in thesame category as being
successful in life, and then Ihave getting a nap and watching

(45:07):
Olympic style Taekwondo samecategory.
So on any particular day, youknow, those two things battle
for my time.
So there's no guarantee thateven if I were to come, that A I
wouldn't nap, instead B, Iwouldn't come to the event
itself and nap.

Speaker 4 (45:22):
But if I did come, I think you got to force yourself
to sit in the stands.
I challenge you to sit in thestands for an entire day and
watch every.
I will provide.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
It's like watching a rom-com.
Can you get espresso in NorthCarolina?

Speaker 4 (45:36):
Watch the day, though , of course I'll bring it
Espresso machine All right.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
You bring an espresso machine, and it's got to be
right near me.
And then I'm bringing female,not male, because I won't need
male bodyguards.
I'm bringing female ninjas thatI've trained at my school.
That will sit on either side ofme and if anybody tries to come
towards me that way, they'regoing to put their hands up and
prevent people from approachingme, like I was the president of

(46:03):
Gabon.
Saturday will be good.
I don't want to interact withanyone.
I don't want anybody.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
I think that's six days.
No, six days.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
First day, friday 58 and 80 are Saturday.
Yeah, but I think that's six.
First day is no.
Six days is first day.
Yeah, friday, 58 and 80.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
58 and 80 are Saturday.
Yeah, but listen, they're allgood because so if you could
watch one.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
What would you if you what's?

Speaker 1 (46:25):
the best, I'm going on.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Friday.
What's more than a 50-50 chanceI won't fall asleep if I come
watch it.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
Friday or Saturday Friday, I think Friday first,
because that's men 68, women 57.
Man men.
We got three divisions that aregood.
That's what I'm saying.
Friday Saturday, yeah, fridaySaturday, I call Friday Saturday
.
Come on, young, is it going tobe like?

Speaker 2 (46:46):
taekwondo or legs.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Is it this Saturday?
No man.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
What Saturday?

Speaker 4 (46:54):
This Saturday.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Two Saturdays 13, 14, no man, what's that?
Two saturdays 13 14 15.
All right hold on hold.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
On hold on 13 14, 15, let me check something.
Hold on, hey, me and me and meand coach tj will buy you a
ticket a ticket, oh no, a planeticket or just a ticket a ticket
, no, a ticket to the thing youbuy your plane ticket a plane
ticket.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
You.
You had me at plane ticket.
Okay, okay a plane ticket,we'll do it.
No, I don't need a plane ticket.
You guys will buy me.
Economy, I don't travel economy.
Oh guys, I don't travel economy.
I love you guys, but you knowme, I don't travel economy.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
You're like bougie man.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
Dude, hey, hold on, I got it all the time.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
You saw bougie.
Hey, you should have got bougieon that damn haircut you got.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Dude, did you see this thing?
By the way, this was talk toyour Brazilian friends.
Look at this thing.
No, don't be First of all youknow, this is like.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
Let me see the other side, other side oh the other.
Why would you get in a chair?

Speaker 4 (47:54):
I have no idea you know who this happened to?
No, this happened to me.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
You forgot this happened to me before.
I can't remember who did it,but there is a picture of
somebody did that to the side ofmy head with a razor.
It was after your thing, and Ihave hair like this, like this,
but yeah, it wasn't good.
I think I'm actually going tobe in that area for this soccer

(48:21):
thing and so we're going for theMLS Next Cup, which hopefully
my son's team will qualify for,and I think it's that same area
of time.
So let me see if I can figureout where?

Speaker 3 (48:36):
where is it?
Where's the next cup?
Well, first of all, I don'thave many rules in life, but one
rule.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Tennessee Tennessee.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
I know, yeah, but you're going to be, you're going
to be busy with the soccerstuff.
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
They only play one.
We play one event a day.
Far is tennessee from northcarolina maybe I should get a
map.

Speaker 4 (48:54):
I think we did this before.
How long did we say I don'tknow, I don't remember.
I think we said it last week.
I don't remember how many hours.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
It's a good little drive okay, back to my rule
don't get in a barber seat whena when a dude don't speak the
same language as you facts.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
What?
Oh, that's, that's true.
That is true.
I don't know what I wasthinking I should have left.
I have a good friend of minewho cuts my hair, but he was
busy out of town and I have likea conflict oh my god, it's 9
hours yeah it's a drive.

Speaker 4 (49:24):
I told you what no, no a drive is different than
this.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
This is like 600 miles.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
That's a plane it's a different state.
What do you expect?

Speaker 2 (49:34):
I mean, come on holy look at the I.
Oh what the what is this?

Speaker 1 (49:39):
I think you got to go watch.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
What is this?
You would like it?
Yeah, I think you got to gowatch.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
No, but look at this.
Look at I think you got to gowatch.
I didn't even know where NorthCarolina was.
All right, so Tennessee is notnear an ocean.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
News to me.
And then look Mr Scholar here.
Doesn't know where Tennessee is.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
I have to go through Ohio.
No, Charlotte, North Carolina.
What is Knoxville?
Oh, I like Knoxville.
And what is this?

Speaker 4 (50:12):
You are not driving nine hours.
This is such a waste of filmand camera time.
You are not driving nine hours.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
This is you are like this is such a waste of film two
months before then I'm going tobe in fresno.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
He's like oh, fresno is like two and a half hours,
three hours, no, it's too far.
Now he's talking about drivingnine hours.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
No, I'm not talking about.
No, no, I'm not talking about.
I'm telling you right, you,right now, unequivocally, if I
come, do they have an airportwhere you are?
I mean like a real airport, notone of these like Cessna
airports.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
Yeah, we got an airport, what's the name of the
airport.
Charlotte CLT Hold on.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
I got to.
I'll put you on mute.
I got to talk to you.
We always answer phone calls.
Oh my.

Speaker 4 (50:54):
God this guy.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
Oh my God, look at that, look at that.
Look at that, look at that helooks like Moles Eric Curry from
the Three Stooges.
You guys ever remember thatthat boy got a bowl haircut?

Speaker 4 (51:06):
Oh boy, oh, poor guy, poor guy.
But I think it'll be good, Ithink it'll be good, I think
it'll be good, I think it'll begood.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
There's going to be some really good matches.
There really are.
I mean, I think I'm hoping thatwe get a couple of American
medals.
To be honest with you, I thinkthat would be really great for
the country.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
That was just my wife calling me to tell me she loves
me.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Oh, that's so nice.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Actually, she was calling to see if I picked up my
kids.
But go ahead, I'll pretend likeit was love hey, your kids
don't drive oh, don't get mestarted.
The this, this generation, theseare I'm uber dad.
Uber usually means super.
In this case it doesn't meansuper, it means literally uber.
I'm lift dad.

(51:49):
Like I told, I yelled at my sonfor a while because I'm like
you should be driving now.
His, my daughter's gonna bedriving before him, but you know
I'm gonna start.
I'm gonna give him a bus card.
He can start taking the bus.
I yelled at my son for a whilebecause I'm like you should be
driving now.
My daughter is going to bedriving before him, but you know
I'm going to start.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
I'm going to give him a bus card.
He can start taking the bus.
Can he drive, though?
No, can he actually drive?

Speaker 2 (52:03):
No, no, no, no.
He didn't even pass the permittest.
He took it twice and failed.
Like the test, the written testno-transcript.

(52:27):
Charlotte, my son's teammate,is going to be playing for the
Charlotte MLS Academy there andthen let me see.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
You got tickets to the PGA though.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
I used to have tickets.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
It was cool.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
The first year.
The first year I got here, Ihad a lot of tickets to the
games for the Charlotte FC.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
It was pretty cool though.

Speaker 4 (52:49):
A good nice stadium Games were always.
The weather was cool for thegames, sometimes a little cold,
but like was.
It was a good environment,though, and a lot.
The fans love it too.
Everybody like.
They appreciate the game, andyou know they're pushing it down
for everyone standing up andthey start yelling and cheering.
So it was definitely fun,though definitely definitely fun
.
If you're in town doing one ofthose, we should go watch one of
those.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
I'd be down well, I'll try to see.
I mean, I gotta see what aticket would cost from, uh,
mumfers re, burgo or oldtennessee to murphy's borough,
man murphy's borough, and I'msure what's the, what's the?

Speaker 1 (53:21):
what's it?
What's it?
Murphy's borough, yeah, whatare you?

Speaker 2 (53:23):
doing there soccer it's got big soccer complex and
it's uh, and they're a tennesseetennessee.
What does it have to?
What's the other thing thing?
What's the big city inTennessee?

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Nashville.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Nashville.
There's going to be an airportin Nashville.
Maybe I'll come, but by the way, there's good food.
I had great food in Nashville.

Speaker 4 (53:44):
I went to the Rainbow Skull Room.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Unbelievable, unbelievable.

Speaker 4 (53:48):
We were supposed to stop there for a little bit I
drove from, was it Miami to?

Speaker 1 (53:53):
Colorado.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
Miami to Coloradoado.
Yeah, miami to colorado.
We drove.
We stopped in nashville onenight, but we were how many
hours is it miami to colorado?
It was forever and a day.
I mean, I think it was likeover 18, 19, 22.
It was deep, it was really deep.
I got to.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
I got to a place where I'm willing to drive to LA
, because I usually wouldn'teven do that.
But I actually learned to enjoyCoach Moreno when I made that
drive.
It was an unfortunate situation, but we had a great time.
That drive was a great drive.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
I think any drive is good as long as you have time.
You know what I'm saying Timeand good company.
Podcast.

Speaker 4 (54:31):
I couldn't drive for that long, though it's just like
a monotonous task, just to sitthere and not run people over.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
But if you had someone that you talked to Like
non-stop, it's actually not asbad.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
TJ, if you were in a car with me you would get out
the first rest stop, but if youwere in a car with me For six
hours, Moreno and I.
We talked both ways.
We talked the whole time.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
How long was the drive, though?

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Oh, six hours, that's not that bad.

Speaker 4 (55:01):
I'm talking like 19, 20 plus like a drive drive.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
Yeah, but not straight.
What if you drive like eighthours and then you sleep.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
Whatever, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
I'm not saying I like it, but I got to hit up, jim,
it's the same as an airport.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
By the time you get to an airport, get on the plane
and get off the plane, you knowyou're driving.
I used to do the DC thing.
Dc is a short flight fromJersey, but by the time you get
to the airport, get to theterminal, get on the plane, get
there.
It's less actually driving, soyou know kind of you do that,
yeah, but it just depends whatyou want to do.

(55:39):
So I mean, you listen along theway, you might be able to stop
at some walmart's or kmarts andfind some more joker pursers for
your walls, you know I knowthey have a lot of velvet they
got a lot of velvet paintings.
I know you're hiding it.
I see you hiding it.

Speaker 4 (55:57):
I'm not hiding anything.
I'm going to send the letter.
Can I ask you a question?

Speaker 2 (56:00):
I just want to ask one question before we wrap up,
at some point, on any of thewalls on either side of your
head are there dogs in velvetplaying cards.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Is there a painting of dogs?
Not in this room.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
That's in the other room.
Other room, okay, and Is therea painting of?

Speaker 2 (56:14):
dogs, not in this room, that's in the other room,
other room.
Oh okay, and is there a velvetJesus, a black velvet Jesus,
anywhere in your house?

Speaker 3 (56:21):
Other room.
All right, good, I'm justjoking.
Other door, version one.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Well, oh, I don't go there.
No, no, no.

Speaker 3 (56:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
Take it easy, my friend Take it easy.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
All right.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Well, we all right.
Well, we're approaching an hourand I don't want to test the
patience of everybody.
It's been a great podcast andwe keep touching on similar
themes and at some point we'regoing to have to tackle the
underlying supporting themes,which is what's our
responsibility to develop talentand us being now self-anointed
um visionaries for Taekwondo.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
I got one last thing Go ahead.
I got you know again.
I think I want to just give ashout out to all our viewers,
because I mean TJ, you know,you've heard it.
The last couple of tournamentsAgain, we've had so many people
come up to us privately and sayI shouldn't watch, don't let.
What is that, dr Brew?

Speaker 2 (57:15):
I'm trying to get a sponsorship Dr Brew, dr Kombucha
if you're listening, anybodyknow anybody there.
I'm drinking your product, ifyou have.
I drink Kombucha every day, drBrew Brew Doctor.
I don't care what I drink, butthis one's pretty good.
So if you're out there and youwant to send me some kombucha, I
will gladly accept yourkombucha.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
I tried this one time .
I like it either.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
In cafe con leche Go ahead.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
No, no, I think it's just cool that people are
watching.
I think it's funny and ironicthat people are like, hey, don't
tell people, but I watch yourstuff, or I shouldn't say this,
but I heard you know it's funny.
I don't know why I, but I watchyour stuff, or I shouldn't say
this, but I heard you know it'sfunny.
Like I don't know why, I don'tknow why people think it should
be taboo.
I mean it's just, it's justentertainment, it's just
information.
I mean I was with somebody acouple of a week and a half ago

(58:04):
and the guy was like hey, I tooka picture with you and I won't
say the other person, and youknow we got in trouble.
They said that that wasn't good, because you know these you
want and this other person, youknow you shouldn't take pictures
with them.
I'm like laughing to myself.
And so when I hear people say,you know, hey, I'm a fan of the
podcast, or hey, I listen toevery single podcast, but I'm
not supposed to tell people.

Speaker 4 (58:25):
I'm like, why not?

Speaker 2 (58:28):
But, it makes me want to do it more I get it.
The truth will be told and itwill be told regularly, once a
week, and you can like it or notlike it and, as we've always
said before, sorry, not sorry.
That's on you.
In other words, if the truthhurts then it's because it's
true.
In other words, people can saywhatever they want to say.

(58:48):
People can say whatever theysay.
My dearest and bestest friendand fellow captain of the team
that I was the overall captainof, lynette Love, I miss you.
I love you.
I hope whatever mental tormentand pain you're going through it
subsides.
But just as a reminder, sorry,not sorry.
And it reminds me, I read mychapter in the book about being

(59:15):
captain of many teams, not justthat particular Olympic team,
and I tried to lead with acertain amount of leadership
style, but it always startedwith leading from the front and
being the example for others tofollow.
And Coach Moreno has beenaround when I train and I
trained hard, I trained hard,worked hard and didn't accept
anything less from my trainingpartners.
And Coach Moreno and I actuallyfought at practices and we

(59:35):
trained practices and we kickedtargets together.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
I say this all the time.
I mean, herb, you're one of mybest friends ever and stuff like
that.
And just like all of us, we takethe good with the bad, and I
stand by you and I take thebullets for you when people say
I don't let anybody say anythingbad about you in front of me
because you're my friend.
But I'll be honest with you.
I mean we didn't always see eyeto eye, nope on things, but I I

(01:00:00):
and I'm saying this in in allhonesty you always led by
example and you, you never askedme to do anything that you
wouldn't do, and so when I thinkback at those times, I mean
they were tough, we trained hard, we had good days, we, we had
good performances, badperformances, but I never
thought of you as a bad captainlike ever.
Matter of fact, I admiredbecause you were so strong,

(01:00:23):
strong minded, and you took waymore bullets for us than we took
for you when it came to dealingwith the coaches, because we
didn't have good coaches and wedidn't have good staffs and you
would go and fight with thoseguys and we never had to hear
from it.
You'd come back to it and saywe're going to train by ourself
or trains at nine, not seven, 30.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
And we were like well , you're too, you're too kind.
But you and I and I'll give youa funny memory that we can end
on, you and all of us you, I,hanwan and UI Han Wan and James
Villasana would literally walkpast the dojang, the little crap
dojang we had to train at inBarcelona, and the coach would

(01:01:02):
be there waiting for us becausewe came early, we wanted to be
on time.
So we'd come early and we'dwalk past the dojang and Don
Cooper would go.
Where'd he go?
Where'd he go?
And we'd walk right past him togo next door to the little
cafeteria which had the cafe conleche, cafe espresso, and we'd
sit there and drink our coffeesitting at and we have pictures
of us sitting there drinkingcoffee and the coach would be

(01:01:24):
like where'd you go?
What are you doing?
Like, hey, we're early, we gottime, baby, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Let me finish with my story.
I got a good story TJ.
So we had this one coach thatwanted us to do kick punch, kick
punch, like Ronald's kick kickand punch, kick and punch, kick
and punch.
And this was his method.
And so one day we're running inthe track and he wants us to do
kick punch, kick punch aroundthe track.
And I'm like, I'm mad.

(01:01:52):
And one of my other captains,I'm only like let's just do it,
let's just do it, don't forget,forget it, just for training.
I'm like shit, I'm like let'sgo.
So me and him start going.
Herb starts going in front ofus.
So you know, you go thestraightaway and you make the
turn, come all the way around.
So we're like this and he keepsgoing.

(01:02:18):
He keeps going off the track.
We make the turn, he leaves thetrack, leaves the olympic
training center, goes to the.
We don't see this guy.
We finish the training, we goto breakfast.
We don't see him at breakfast.
We we get to like training atlike three o'clock.
I'm like we haven't seen him,like where'd you go?
He's like I went to the park,he just kept going.
He never came back.
I was like this mother suckergot out of the training, didn't

(01:02:39):
get in trouble.
We didn't see him until thenext practice.
It was hilarious, true story.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
It was one of my all-time favorite stories.
No, because it's true, we hadtold him it's like my last year.
I'm not doing this anymore, I'mnot putting up with anything.
Leave me alone.
If you don't leave me alone,I'm going to go.
I'm going to train and win andfight and compete.
I'm doing my best.
Don't bother me, just leave mealone.
Let me do what I do.
And you know, coach and I havetalked about this all the time

(01:03:06):
and I love Don Coon Park andMoreno and Coach Moreno.
All these guys are in thestands.
So instead of sitting in myseat, I would stand and Coach
Park would go.
Why you don't sit, I go?
No, I'm good sir.
So he's sitting and he's got mywater bottle.
I think he was drinking from it.
So I'm looking out at theseguys because they're coaching me
from the stands, and he's likewhy are you not looking at me?
Why are you looking at that?

(01:03:27):
I'm like I need some help.
I'm'm gonna look at my, my guys, but uh, you know, at some
point which goes back to thepremise of our story sometimes
you got to know what's in yourbest interest and do it.
And if that means staying athome, training with your, the
guys who helped you get there,that's what we got to do.
All right, I gotta go pick upmy daughter.
I love you both boys.

(01:03:48):
Thank you so much.
And, as we've said, before onbehalf of all three of us.
Sorry, not sorry, see ya allright, man, I'll get it up.