The Day I Had to Apologize to TJ's Mom

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Terrence, run to the scene on drill.
I'm sorry, not sorry.
Ain't it funny?
Herb P on the track, my sisterill Advise opinions maybe, but
facts ain't lies, it's coldmetal mentality.
Watch the sunrise 1F1, I'mcheckin' in so we're sittin'
pretty.
Still mean.
Second best in the world.
Get witty.
Face down to Ponyx.
Pressure cookin' hot.
Gave my sweat, my focus,everything I got.

(00:22):
Dj Kwanzaa.
Dj holding down the bar.
I'm still on the stage.
I want the job to turn into athing.
Learn to discipline folks.
Respect for the fight.
My fight ain't lies, it's onlyvitality.
We've been through some hell,born in a wild dead reality.
Just me and you Still meChecking me out on the box.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Some of it is something down the floor.
All right, we are back.
This is the warehouse 15, andtoday I'm going to start with an
apology to tj's mom.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
So remember that what we say here is in jest.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
We have nothing but love for your son.
We are very proud of him.
We uh, we were were glad tofind him when we found him, then
he found us and he has doneamazing things since then, and
so I'm not going to say my usualtagline, because for moms, moms
get a pass.
So my mom, is.

Speaker 4 (01:18):
I was going to say yeah, man, I can use a tagline.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
I'm not saying it, not using it.

Speaker 4 (01:23):
Everyone except for Mrs Jennings.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
That's it so, moms get a pass.
My mom defended me vehemently,Just for today though, just for
today.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Just for today, oh, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
That doesn't mean I'm not going to be me with you.
I'm just letting your mom knowwhy.
No, no, your mom, whatever shesays.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
So her pulling up on me or whatever the street
vernacular is yeah, so wherewhere's your mom?

Speaker 2 (01:52):
where does your mom live?

Speaker 3 (01:52):
in virginia, in virginia where I grew up, a
little bit, a little bit moresouth from where I grew up.
Does she have an open carrypermit?
I don't want, I'm not, I'm notgonna put her business out there
, but she might all right.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
So miss, miss, uh, miss jennings, please accept my
sincere and dearest apologiesand remember that that my name
is Juan Moreno.
Welcome, welcome, coach Moreno.
What do you got for us today?

Speaker 4 (02:08):
Man, I'm excited.
I know we're going to do alittle video review.
I mean we're getting.
We got to talk about the campthat we had after the grand Prix
.
We got to talk.
Did we talk about that lasttime?
I don't even remember.
We got to talk about the camp.
I just got back from Minnesota.

(02:29):
I have some questions for theorganization to shout out there.
Yeah, man, I got a quote fromone of my guys, josh, that I'm
going to talk about a little bitlater.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
The guy hit me at the right moment, man hit me at the
right moment, something that Ineeded to hear today and yeah,
I'm going to pull that out in acouple minutes, but yeah,
excited to be here, as always,mr tj, my most favorite and most
amazing person, the gentlemanthat I look up to for taekwondo
technique and knowledge, and I,when I was writing my book,

(02:58):
every paragraph in it was methinking about you.
How are you today?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
today, sir, I'm good, chen, and actually, like Coach
Mendoza said, it's been a busytwo weeks.
We did have the Grand PrixChallenge, we had the
International Exchange Camp atthe gym out here in Charlotte
and then we went straight toMinnesota on Friday.
I've been thrown into theepitome of what it means to be a
high-level coach and adevelopment coach all wrapped
into one, and I commend theseguys for what they've done and

(03:26):
how they've done it for so long,because it is definitely a
grind, you know, being able toshow up for the athletes every
single day and work with themevery single day and different
levels, and go back home and doit again on Monday.
So for for me, it was a goodweekend, very, very good, busy
start to a hopefully a long termof doing those kind of things
at the gym and obviouslycontinue with the peak
performance program stuff.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
We'll talk about that , but I just want to make sure
you're okay Young, because Iknow your little baby is in
Japan I'm having personalwithdrawals and I could.

Speaker 6 (03:59):
I got no one to yell at.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
I got no one exactly.
I have nobody to lecture and Ican't yell at him because he's
in japan, but um, he's, he'sdoing great.
I'm gonna try to find.

Speaker 4 (04:12):
Let me show you this I saw that a couple things that
you posted.
It was pretty cool man yeah,what was that?

Speaker 3 (04:19):
he was speaking japanese.
He's speaking japanese man.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
This boy is like listen, Thank you.
That's him being welcomed at theacademy, and so we're just so
thankful for the opportunity.
And I want to thank my goodfriend, hussein Alamusalam, who
is the director general andpresident of swimming
internationally.

(04:41):
We've been friends for a longtime.
We met during my time at theOlympic Committee, when I was
working for the Olympic Councilof Asia, and he reached out to
the Japanese FootballAssociation, their soccer
association, and they've justbeen an amazing host.
The club is Avispa Fukaoka andit's an island in Japan, very

(05:03):
hot, and Nico's just having agrand old time being free from
me being free for me.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
I thought I just heard you saying something like
I can't believe, man, you try tosend your boy abroad to get a
girlfriend you know, I, I, Ithink his girlfriend is a soccer
ball and I'm okay with that.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
So his, uh, like it should be, his, he does soccer.
When I was young I had time forthree things Um, I had time for
Taekwondo.
I had time for music andacademics uh, four things.
There was the other thing andthe uh.
You know, but, uh, the kidsthese days, or not they are good
at one of them.

(05:41):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, I try to begood at least at one of them
and so, uh, so that's all we hadand that's all I did, but I'm
happy for him.
And you know, coach Moreno andI and you, when was your first
time going to Korea, tj.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Oh, I think the first time I went was in 2003 for the
.
They did a Pan Am Championshipteam.
I actually got second that year, but that was back when there
were no ranking points.
So the number one person Ithink was Mark at the time.
He didn't go, so they sent thesecond place person, which was
me, and we went to Korean Openover there for the first time in
2003.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
My year after I made junior team.
You can only imagine.
You were there for that andCoach Moreno and I went there
and lived there and trainedthere, and I can remember my
first international trip becauseI'm a New York City kid man.
I, you know, I thought, Ithought when I went to my, I saw
trees, when I went to camp,that's the kind of kid I was.
So when I went to Korea, youknow you land and the sights,

(06:47):
the sounds, the food, the people, and it's so weird to be
immersed in a culture where noone I mean back then no one
spoke english.
So you wanted to eat, you had tofigure out how to say what you
wanted, you wanted to get home,you needed to figure it out or
you had to walk and so, uh, itwas a, it was a great and, uh,
humbling experience, but, moreimportantly, just revitalizing
it, just amazing to go and dothat.
So for him, you know, to beimmersed in japan, I'm excited
for the.

(07:08):
We'll see what young man comeshome.
But then he goes, he's home fora couple days and he goes to
brazil to fluminense.
Yeah, so we'll see that'spretty cool.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
Well, sure he's not coming from brazil, because he
might as well love on brazil,but well, they're gonna put him
in.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
You know brazil.
You know how brazil is soFluminense, has a training
facility.
What's the big city it's on theoutskirts of?
Is Buenos Aires, brazil, or isthat?

Speaker 5 (07:34):
No, it's.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
Argentina man San Paulo.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
San Paulo.
So, yeah, I'll have to look upwhere the training facility is,
but he'll be secluded and youknow, and that's another whole
style I was watching.
Did you guys watch that WorldCup of clubs, Dude?
These guys, they play differentsoccer in Argentina and Brazil.
These guys, they rock, theyrock.
Last night I was watching InterMilan from some other club and

(08:04):
the club was from Argentina andthe two guys got in and got on
it.
They got into it on the fieldand then they were like, okay,
let's go into the tunnel, sonobody sees it.
So the one brother from InterMilan ran into the tunnel.
They grabbed the Argentinianguy and tackled him to the floor
so that they wouldn't be in thetunnel, punching each other in

(08:24):
the face.

Speaker 4 (08:24):
Yeah, it's a lot more personal.
I mean it's a little bit likeTaekwondo.
I mean in Europe in Taekwondoit's a little cleaner, it's a
little bit more point-based,it's not so personal.
I mean people lose and they dapeach other up.
In South America we push to sayYoung.
I mean I know that.

(08:44):
You know TJ went back in 2003.
You went back in the 80s, sodid I?
I mean talk about no onespeaking the language, talk
about no phones, nocommunication.
I mean I remember going to apay booth to call my parents.
I mean it was just crazy and Iwas 15.
At least you were a man whenyou went there.

(09:09):
I mean I was.
I literally had never been outof the country, just sent me on
an airplane.
I'm like what the well?
I remember flying over there inkorean air going what am I
doing?
Like who do I meet?
Like like I didn't have a name.
There was.
No one gave me a name, nobodygave me a picture.
Like I already just remembergetting off the plane carrying a
bag and just one guy looked atme.
I looked at him, he looked atme and he turned around and I
just followed him.
You know what it was?
it was icky, john, john, icky,he's oh, yeah, yeah, so anyway
it's just funny kind of stuff,yeah, but that's that's great,

(09:31):
that adventure.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Like you know, nico had to go through korea, right?
So he gets off the plane inkorea.
Doesn't call me, because heknows what I'm going to say, so
he calls my wife.
He doesn't know where to go,like, where do I go?
She's like find the gate.
You know, find the gate.
So he gets off the plane inJapan and luckily there was
somebody there to pick him up.
And when I went, you know,coach Isang Isang oh my gosh,

(09:56):
it's Kiyosumi Inao he picked meup.
He was the president of theTaekwondo program there and then
he became president of isongukand he became president of the
university.
So I had the actual like guypick me up and he didn't speak
english, a little bit of englishwent to his house for breakfast
, it was his birthday and uh,just, you know the culture and

(10:19):
the amazing welcoming of it andthe hospitality was unparalleled
it's funny, let's get onto ourshow.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
But like it's funny because when I went there like
this dude, I was a kid, this,this grown-ass man, he didn't
ask, he didn't offer to carry mybags.
I got on a train, I got in abus, um, I go up same thing to
the, to the one of theprofessors at king's uh
apartment with his family.
There.
They put me in a room, like I.
There they put me in a room.
They put me in a room and I wassitting there.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
You were a pet.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Yeah, and their daughter came in and tried to
speak a little English to me andthen I remember they weighed me
and my arrogant self.
I'm like, oh, they're trying tofigure out what weight category
I am, but you know what it was.
The guy that sent me over toKorea.
They wanted to make sure that Ididn't lose too much weight.
They wanted to make sure I ate.

Speaker 5 (11:06):
You know what I'm saying, so it was funny.
That's a crazy way.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yeah, I mean, I didn't know that until later,
but I was like man, they tryingto size me up.
They know who's coming overhere, man.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
That's crazy, though I never got a chance to.
Oh, never, never never, we wentover there for I trained a
little bit while we were inkorea, but like I never went to
a full blown, we're gonna go toa training camp, and I always
hear the stories about all the,the, the miles of running in the
morning and then oh yeah thebillions of kicking in the
afternoon and then thousands offights afterwards chanting while
you're running and running upmountains I mean the

Speaker 2 (11:44):
generation of guys that we came up with, like when
I went to chede, they had 45 ofthe best athletes in the country
, men in each division.
They had five in each.
They had 40, 40 in each andthey had five in from each the
top players.
They went out and recruitedthem, so that was park bong kwan
.
You know he?

(12:04):
Uh, what was his name?
I jung su.
I mean, they had oh um myungchan.
Yeah, from that, from thatparticular program, I think in
the 88 olympics, they had threeor four athletes that made that
team park bong kwan.
Myung chan was there.

Speaker 4 (12:19):
Um no, they were listen in those days, they were
good and all.
I mean there's a coupleuniversities but you're right,
tj, they're running and stufflike that.
I mean I think it's gonnachange a little bit now.
I mean they were listen inthose days, they were good, and
I mean there's a couple ofuniversities, but you're right,
tj, the running and stuff likethat.
I mean I think it's changed alittle bit now.
I mean, obviously, like ourcountry has changed, but I mean
it was.
It was not fun, you know, to behonest with you, it really
wasn't.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
I mean many good stories yeah, yeah, well, no
doubt, listen, they, uh, theywere tougher, you know, and and
the programs there were tougherand you know, one of the best
coaches in the history of thesport ran the high school
program and that was uh kim sayup and his athletes and his
program.
You know he was, he was brutal,you know a guy showed up to

(13:00):
practice with hair too long,they all shaved their heads.
I got hit with sticks.
I mean, you couldn't do thattoday.
You know kids would cry when Iwent to korea.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
They took me to kyung yi day and then they looked at
me and they were like this guy,this kid's too small and they
sent me to dongsung high school.
So I stayed in a little uhplace right and that was where
that you know kim taehyuk wasand the guy that I fought in the
olympics was.

Speaker 5 (13:22):
Quante Ho?

Speaker 4 (13:23):
Yeah, quante Ho I didn't know who he was Bobby
Clayton and Park Bong Kwan allthose guys would come back there
in the afternoon because they'dgo to the university and they'd
come back to this high schoolto train at night with this
specific coach because he wasjust… the best.
Yeah, he's the best.
I mean, he's literally the best.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well, I know, today we're going to talk about and
we're looking at and we're goingto watch a match.
So this is something new.
If you have the youtube, we'regoing to share the video so you
can see it.
Um, and it's going to be a goodconversation because it'll be a
conversation a little bit aboutthe scoring system and then
certainly about some of thethings we see in it.
But let me let me take a secondhere to figure it out okay, can
I, can I say something beforewe get on?

Speaker 4 (14:03):
I mean, while you figure that out, I just want to
say, like this weekend I know wehad that international camp.
I don't know if we talked aboutthat TJ at your place.
Did we talk about that, or isthat?

Speaker 3 (14:11):
were we in between A little bit, a little bit, a
little bit.

Speaker 4 (14:14):
I think, we just just the continuation.
Yeah, because it's quick.
I just want to say just a realquick thing.
Listen, I want to give a shoutout to Coach Oidley.
He's one of my original peakperformance coaches.
He had us all out to Minnesota.
He's been having one every June.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
He was a guest on the show.
He was a guest on the show.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
Yeah, prepped before nationals and stuff like that.
But this one was particularlyspecial because we really had
like a, you say kind of tj,almost like a reunion.
You know we had yeah, tj wasthere, page was there, james
howe was there, russell benny bwas there, your wife was there
and that my wife was there.
Um, coach park from canada camein.

(14:56):
Uh, I'm missing one of theother coaches.
Just well, I'm talking aboutour peak performance.
Uh, reunion coach I keepwaiting.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
I keep waiting for the invite.
You know, I feel like.
You know, I understand USA.
Taekwondo may not like me, wtmay not like me, the Kuki one
may not like me.
You know, mexicans don't likeme.
Tj's mom doesn't like me, butlike you guys, I mean, come on
now.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
I asked you before it was kind of cool.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
It was definitely cool to have that many of us
around.
It's interesting.
I was looking at some of thepictures on the wall there and I
see like, particularly likeAlassane when he was younger,
this little kid likegoofy-looking kid and now you
know he's been able to fight anddevelop into an Olympian and
get through all these things andit's pretty cool to see the
process of that and kind ofseeing some of these kids that
I've.

(15:43):
You know that I met when Ifirst went there for peak camps,
when and I was maybe 20 someyears old, 22, 23 years old and
they were like 12.
And now these kids are 22 andthey're still involved, they're
still active, they're stillhelping be a part of the
development.
I think that part was prettycool.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
Yeah, and that's all that's.
That's really what I want totalk about.
Tj is that there was like therewas literally generations.
There was my generation with TJand a lot of these guys, and
now they have students.
Some of those students havekids.
You know, it was just.
It was crazy.
Oh, james, howe I miss James.
Howe and his wife.
So like we were just all thereand all the coaches were on the

(16:18):
floor working and like you said,to see, you know, al sounds a
great talk, you know, becausethe kid was in the after-school
program and now he's an Olympianand runs a school for OI.
You know, you look at, you know, ava Lee.
You know who was this littlegirl running around?
We used to carry her in diapersand now she's fighting at the
world championship level.
And to see Skylar Park and thePark family, you know, coming to

(16:39):
us, it was just really cool tosee the lowest of the low, the
highest of the high, and it wasbeautiful for me.
I mean I almost felt like agrandpa, you know, kind of
sitting back watching everybody.
I mean I worked a lot like atthe camp itself, but I was
really proud and happy that,like what we've been able to
build.
I know people talk about peak,peak, peak, but to see everybody
in the same room, you know,bringing their own athletes, now

(17:04):
it it's not just them, it'stheir athletes now coming with
our athletes and man, the familywas great and and we had a
really, a really good level, um,of little kids, of juniors and
of seniors.
Like I said, we had how manyolympians training that day?
There was like four, fourolympians training.
It's.
It's crazy.

(17:24):
So just a lot of fun.
Again, shout out to Coach Lee,because him and his family, his
wife and the WTA family theywere young they took us out to
their lake house, we did jet skiand we rode on boats.
You know, he took us to dinner.
I mean, the dude is just a Iknow people look at him because
he's kind of a scowl and stufflike that but what an amazing

(17:46):
host, uh, brother.
For me he's literally like mybrother, I mean, uh, just a
great, great guy.
So yeah, just want to give ashout out to him well, I think
that you know I didn't realizethis, tj.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
but you know, with your headphones in that
microphone you look like atelemarketer for a late night,
like lose weight program,something, call now and you too
can yeah, I mean, I don't knowwhat it is.
I think it's the way themicrophone comes down or
something.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
But TJ's mom that's a joke, Just a joke Couldn't wait
TJ, he couldn't let it go 17minutes in.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
That's all it took.
What happened to the clock?

Speaker 3 (18:22):
What happened to the clock?
I want to get the clock back.
I think I need it.
You've been okay so far wehaven't got too deep, but I'm
going to have to bring the clockback.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
You've got to bring the clock.
Let's watch the video.
I'm going to get it.
We're going to start a share.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
What are we watching again?

Speaker 2 (18:36):
What are we watching?
This is the athlete from the USis competing against the
athlete from Korea, and I thinkit's a breakdancing competition.
I'm not really sure what it is.
I had to watch it twice becauseI fell asleep during the break
between the first and secondround and I had to be woken up.
But let me get it up, no punintended.

(19:01):
So can you guys see it?
You see it now, yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:05):
All right, let me do this.
I'm going to make it big forour audience.
Are people at home going to be?

Speaker 2 (19:09):
able to see it.
They will, it's going to be andthey're going to be able to
hear it.
So what are the?

Speaker 3 (19:13):
rules to watching this match.
Like I like watching Taekwondomatches.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Like are we going to stop, pause it?

Speaker 3 (19:21):
we can pause it, so all you gotta do is, I don't
mind, I just want to know therules, because you know I know
we might go off on a tangent andstart talking about this fight
club your last time you madespaghetti or something crazy in
the middle of this match.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
So all right, so let's, let's pre-frame it.
We have what happened to hishair.
Who is that?

Speaker 4 (19:41):
let me pre-frame it because, listen, this would be a
very what do you say?
A match that I would want tosee, quite honestly, because
they fought before, but it justhappens to be on this system
which we're going to see is alittle bit crazier.
I mean, I know Dr Kavner wantedto come on and debate with me,

(20:02):
but I told him I had no defenseof this event because I don't
even know what was going on.
I don't even know what thepoints were going on.
I couldn't tell you.
So you know, this would be agreat match on a normal KPMP or
maybe even a Gen 2.
This Gen 3, it was, it is whatit is.
Let's watch it.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
All right, I'm going to, I'm going to start it and
then let me know if you don'thear the audio.
But I have the audio on as well, and this is being commentated
by I don't.
It sounds like somebody fromNorth Carolina has a little bit
of an accent and I don't thinkthey actually do Taekwondo,
because they don't.
I don't, I'm not talking aboutthe athletes, I'm talking about
the comment commentator.
But if you can recognize thecommentator, let me know winner

(20:47):
in manchester.
These have been the two mostdominating fighters in this
division oh, it's doing thechoppy thing again and so it is
the best for last in this caseso the people that are watching
it won't see the choppiness,it's just you right off the bat,
nicholas.

Speaker 5 (21:02):
It's a tight little round kick but it doesn't score
and, honestly, it doesn't evenregister.
Both guys score quickly, 2-0.
I'll try to keep up.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Yeah, but the audio's ahead.
And it's a beautiful what wasthat the audio's ahead and I
can't see what the actualexchange is.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Well, the video is going to play in real time for
people in the audience, so thecommentary may seem, but that's
just the way you see the video.
Right there we're at 5-2.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
I'm going to bring it back so we can get it.
That's a problem right there.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, we're going to go to that, you're going to see
a lot of action.

Speaker 5 (21:37):
Both these guys have been outstanding.
Excellent fodder right off thebat.
It's a tight little insideround on skid but it doesn't
score and, honestly, it doesn'teven register.
Both guys score quickly, 2-0.
I'll try to keep up.
These guys are kicking it.
And it's a beautiful slidinground on skid just over the

(21:57):
shoulder.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
And that's the problem, right there, right.
So we'll stop it there for aminute because, for the people
that have listened to it, therewas a all of a sudden, out of
nowhere.
I couldn't see what it was.
It went from two, two, which Ididn't see, the two two either,
that's, I saw one of thetechniques, um, and then this
one is where it stopped and itbecame five, two.

(22:21):
So coach moreno can you tell?
Us a little bit about thisbefore we watch it.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
I'm assuming that there was a lot of phantom
points where things were gettingclose and coaches, towards the
middle and end of the tournament, they started using the card
saying technical problem withthe score Because things were
missing, and so they would watchit.
It would miss and they wouldgive their card back.
I think he asked for two thingsNumber one I think one were

(22:48):
missing and so they would watchit, it would miss and they would
give their card back.
I think he asked for two thingsnumber one, I think one.
It missed.
Okay, and later on you'll seethey give the card back.
They took off the three points.
It went two to two, but he alsothe referee, kept his card.
So that leads me to believe heasked for two things.
And he asked for a spin becausethere was only one action by
the korean guy.
I watched this earlier.
He did a little spinning hookkick to the back.
It it's ugly, oh it's ugly, yeah, he did no up, he did no run,
he did nothing.
That was the only kick he didand two points went up.

(23:10):
So by virtue of him spinning heshould have gotten four.

Speaker 5 (23:13):
So I don't know.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
I have no idea how the referees, after reviewing it
, did not see that the only kickthe guy did was a spin kick.
There was no other kicks.
Two points went up.
Therefore it had to be afour-point play.
So it should be 4-2 Korea.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
But it ends up being 2-2.
Got it All right, so let meplay this a little bit further,
because they're going to showthey go back.
I'm going to skip all this.
They're going to show the videoLooking on a spin.

Speaker 5 (23:46):
Maybe he's looking the video, so they actually show
the video so take away pointsand add points is what they're
looking for and interestingenough so they show it here, if
you look at the screen you cansee that the foot never he's

(24:07):
talking about that hook rightthere to the body which he
should be hit with a stick foreven throwing that technique.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
And then this is the point that they try to say that
CJ scored.
Well, the system said CJ scored.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
And you can see it didn't go anywhere near or touch
anything, are you?

Speaker 3 (24:29):
talking about that face kick.
Yep, I'm trying to watch it onmy phone at the same time so I
can be on the same spot.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
See, how it misses.
See right there, it went overthe shoulder.

Speaker 5 (24:45):
Is there a team?

Speaker 2 (24:45):
from Great Britain here.
See how it misses.
See right there.
Yeah, it went over the shoulder, yeah Is there, a team from
Great Britain here.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
I think that's always , you know, that's been an issue
.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
I don't know, I've always hated that.
I've hated that since we weredoing push-ups.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
You see it here For the face the three points and
even the electronic helmets Likestuff gets close, it doesn't
get close and we?
It's like stuff gets gross.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
It doesn't get gross and we Well, let's talk about
that.
Most coaches don't want to risktheir cards to.
It's obvious that that kickdidn't even come.
That kick didn't even the toe,didn't even glance or touch
anything.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
It was literally a kick to the top of the shoulder,
young, there was all kinds ofstuff like that, even to the
body, like spin kicks, wherepeople clearly block things,
spin kicks and four points weregoing up.
I clearly block things, spinkicks and four points were going
up.
I mean there's, there was stuffto the back.
We I can show you little videoclips like spinning hook kicks

(25:33):
to the middle of the back andfive points going up it was.
It went from two to ten.
I mean there was just.
It was so much.
I don't blame the coach and theathletes because nobody you
couldn't keep up with it.
So yeah he's in the chair, he'swatching the fight, he's looking
at the scoreboard.
You don't even know what'sgoing on.
It was so crazy.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
That's why I said I can't be coming.
I watch a lot of taekwondo,like you guys, and I don't
understand.
But let me go to this nextsection here, real quick real
quick.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
My problem with this and the problem with the way
it's still scoring and I'm goingto go a little bit more I, I
think, where we are in this dayand age.
You know, it's still a crazymatch because these athletes
were able to over-adapt andstill outscore and still figure
out, do all these good things,but this system goes back to
what was it?
2022 World Championships inGuadalajara?
Yeah, it was the same the firstday when they said it was
because of the pool water.

(26:17):
Remember that whole thing?
Yeah, yeah, what?
Yeah, the water in the room wasaffecting the signal or
something weird.
But you saw the same thingPeople getting swung on and hit
and not being touched andgetting bonus points for not
coming close.
I mean.
So this for me.
I know the shock value becauseit was so much in one place, but
this system has been doing this.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
This is not new.
Let's watch a little bit.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Let's watch a little further, because they took their
face kick off though.

Speaker 5 (26:44):
Hard for me to tell.
Yeah, they did take the facekick off.
They saw they have a betterangle than us and we'll go 2-2.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Like that.
In fairness, that was a decentup ball yeah.

Speaker 5 (26:57):
They are absolutely crushing the test protectors.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Like you said, they're terrible, but they don't
score.
But now watch that?

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Where did that point come from?

Speaker 4 (27:07):
Which one?

Speaker 2 (27:08):
There's a three right here it was 2-2.
Now I could actually I shouldslow it down.
Let me slow it down, but didthey take it?

Speaker 3 (27:17):
off for holding or no .
No, not this one.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Let me slow it down just a little bit.
Yeah, but he's.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
Honestly for this system and any system, the
Korean boy is good at that.

Speaker 5 (27:30):
He hits that out loud .

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Now watch this.
Watch this.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
What was that?

Speaker 2 (27:42):
The first one he did what was that.
He wrapped his foot.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
He does that a lot, though, to a lot of people.
The first one.
He did the second one.
You can see his foot wrappedpretty good.
So what do you?

Speaker 2 (27:51):
get one point?
For what do you get one pointfor?
He got a come down, he fellyeah he fell, so CJ got one
deduction.
Got it, got it, got it.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
I mean the Korean guy deductions, so he got it when
it scored, that was close.

Speaker 5 (28:21):
Oh, that was close.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
What was that?
A little up on the side, I meanI'm telling you I can't defend
it, like, yeah, what happened?
Like where did those pointscome from?
I think a little front, leg up,defend it Like yeah, what
happened?

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Like where did those points come from?

Speaker 4 (28:47):
I think a little front leg up.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
All right, so it's 6-3 for those that are listening
on the podcast.
Another mystery point 6-3 forNicholas versus Sol.

Speaker 5 (28:59):
And the Koreans scored.
And that was a loud techniqueand he got 2.65.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
And the Korean scored and that was a loud technique
and he got 2.65.

Speaker 5 (29:08):
Back and forth, we go .

Speaker 6 (29:12):
Now he's going to get a minus point for falling Spin
go high Spin, go high, back toyour top, back to your top, back
to your top.
Let's get it, let's jump theaction, let's jump out.

Speaker 5 (29:30):
Let's get it.

Speaker 6 (29:34):
Those guys going back and forth.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Now, that was a decent punch, right.
They scored it.
They scored it, they scored it.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
It was it, they scored it.
It was like one of five punchesthroughout the weekend.
Big punch.

Speaker 5 (29:53):
That's one of the punches that does score around
here, and it scores because it'sbig, it's stopping and it's
loud.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
That's another solid cut by Nick.
So two points for a cut.

Speaker 5 (30:01):
He has an 11.78, just 48 seconds left here in round
one.
That's a nice tight round.
That's what Soto does.
Well, he's doing a great job offollowing his kicks, but
Nicklaus is doing his own.
It's a big face kick, doesn'tscore Come on Keep your distance
, don't let him beat you into it.
Stay on your knees, stay onyour knees, I'm going to wear,

(30:28):
and so does a great job ofweathering the face kick and the
spin and then inside right legnice and tight, and that's what
he does so well.

Speaker 6 (30:40):
Both guys straight body shots inside.

Speaker 5 (30:43):
Is there the cut, eric?
Is the defense a cut kick, whatthe hell.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
What was that.

Speaker 5 (30:49):
He's tired.
That's sort of a turn.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
Look at, knock him off.
Yeah, these guys are alwayslike this.
I mean, at this point it's 20to what?
Well, I'm ahead but 17-12.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
You knew it was going to be good action, but take
that for a minute.
What?

Speaker 4 (31:09):
was that.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
So they were at 17.
And then watch this, becausethis is interesting, right.

Speaker 5 (31:34):
Let me change the playback speed, just so you can
appreciate what I'm going to say.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Three points go up here.
How was that?
That was as bad as the firstone.

Speaker 4 (31:47):
Yeah, do it again, one more time.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (31:50):
It looks like it gets on his shoulder.
Possibly See if you can go evenslower, young.

Speaker 5 (31:58):
Oh, I can go slower.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Think about that.
That's two points.
He didn't get three points thathe just got.
That's a five-point lead.
It already came up.

Speaker 3 (32:14):
No, you went too far.
Yeah, right here Right hereRight here, right here.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
I mean that's as bad as the first one.
I mean actually it's as bad asthe first one.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
I think that left leg backside should have scored.
This system is dumb Because Ithink the left leg backside,
after the facing the left leg tothe backside, should have
scored.
It was nice, flat and wrapped.
I don't know.
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (32:43):
And a sliding axe to kick that square and that's big.
That takes it to 20.
I mean really it should be.
He's going to continue to pressand fall.

Speaker 6 (32:56):
What's going on?

Speaker 2 (33:01):
What's going on?
What's he doing?
That's just.

Speaker 6 (33:08):
But like you look at it three points off.

Speaker 5 (33:11):
You know my problem with this.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
There's four deductions in this right now.
There's four deductions and twodeductions All in a span of
three minutes.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
And like even worse, these guys are fighting for
three minutes and that's stillsuch a big factor in the match.

Speaker 4 (33:23):
They're avoiding, they're not trying to fall
they're not doing any of thatstuff and that four points is so
think about this like right now, there's three points for a
face shot, right, right, there'stwo points that they missed on
a spin, that's five, right, itshould be five change.

(33:46):
And then there's the.
You know they're fighting everysingle time, the clinch and the
kicking.
And then the one time the guygives him a point, when a point
scores, he gives a come down,takes up two points.
So that's a three-point swing.
So that's five and three,that's an eight-point swing in
USA's favor.
And look at the score Yep, Imean that's big.

(34:09):
You know, I know those arematches.
I'm not crying about thededuction, but the three that
they missed, I mean the two,that was a spin, and the three,
that's a five-point, right there.
And you know, think about it.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
What is this?
Seven and eight is the numberof the player right.

Speaker 4 (34:24):
No, that's how many body shots, body shots they
scored.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Head shots.
Oh, is that what it was?
Seven bodies, one head, zeroheads.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Right Two punches.

Speaker 4 (34:32):
CJ got two punches that round.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Oh yeah, he did get two punches yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:37):
And then come junks he got four.
Four deductions, though he didfall three times.
Yeah, it's a crazy game.
I mean, obviously I've neverliked the deductions for falling
because I know where it started, when people back in the day
would go pot of chuggy and rolland fall on the floor on purpose
.
But I've watched people getdeductions for slipping on the
slippery World Tech windowletters in the middle and I get
a deduction because the lettersare slippery is stupid.

(35:00):
We go too far in this, I guess,in the ability to try to say
we're being so fair and we'redoing the right thing.
I think we've tried to go sofar because you're masking all
the stuff that is actually wrongand that's my issue.
And obviously the headgears arescrewy, the body shots are
screwy, everything's screwy.

Speaker 5 (35:18):
All right, let's watch this Two CJ Nicholas Blue,
USA, so Jungwoo.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Why is he touching him?
Round number two, what, oh myGod.

Speaker 5 (35:35):
I never did that one before Anyway.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
So Jungwoo red Korea, wait, hold on a second.

Speaker 4 (35:52):
What was that Two he just puts?

Speaker 6 (35:54):
his foot there.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
No, he did double.

Speaker 6 (35:56):
Oh, he hit it twice yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
So I didn't even see it.
That's wacky.
Let's watch that one moresecond.

Speaker 5 (36:08):
I don't know, if you knew that.

Speaker 3 (36:09):
Oh yeah, I saw, I saw , I saw, I saw.

Speaker 5 (36:11):
So round number two CJ Nicholas, blue, usa.
Zo Jungwoo, red Korea.

Speaker 6 (36:19):
Come on, whoa.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
Register Right Red Korea.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Man, I don't even I mean, I guess.
That was a six point that wasalso an up ball.
Yeah, it was an up ball, but Imean I guess we'll talk about
that later.
None of these are points Likethey're points on this chest
protector.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
So now he's down 6-0 with 140 to go.

Speaker 5 (36:53):
So he does another one.
He does another pick of TJNichols with an inside round.

Speaker 4 (36:57):
To get himself back in and now he's up to 6-0.
It's funny, because the Koreanguy doesn't back up and he gets
up and gets in and out of it.

Speaker 5 (37:04):
She's in control now, right here Watch this One more
time.

Speaker 6 (37:07):
Not here.
He's on the other side.
That one, yeah, here it comes.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
Yeah, here it comes.

Speaker 5 (37:28):
Oh, beautiful spin.
360 round kick from Nicholasand he scores it big and long,
so he trims that lead.
There's two points with onekick 360 round kick, not a bomb
round kick.
And there's Soto with his rightleg inside again Back up to 8-4
.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
He's not right.

Speaker 5 (37:43):
Left leg here with the short inside round kick with

(38:17):
both legs, but the right leg inparticular.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
What was that?
I didn't see that.

Speaker 4 (38:22):
It's hard to see.

Speaker 5 (38:23):
I don't know if it's up on our screen Down 6-0.
Now it's just down 2 at 8-6.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
That was that weird.
No, not a sidekick, that's noteven a sidekick.
What that is is a nothing kick.
But it scored.
And let me explain.
Let me just tell you what my.
This is a great place to talkabout this problem, right?
So let's watch that for half asecond.
Here's where the point comes.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
Oh no wait, Did it come here here?
Here it's coming here Down 6-0.

Speaker 5 (39:01):
Now he's down 2 at 8-6.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
That's what scored.
It was a hook.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
It was a hook to the back.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
It was a hook to the back of the chest protector.
That wouldn't be a point.
If you hit somebody with it,the only thing you would hurt is
the bottom of your foot, that'snormal.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
That's where we do body hook.
They do body hooks to the back.

Speaker 5 (39:28):
They do body hooks to the body hooks, to the back.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
They do body hooks at a front to the face.
I mean, this day it was really12-12 team, you keep it up.

Speaker 5 (39:38):
Where's your first head kick?
Pessoa gets a roundhouse kick.
Oh, he kicks around the guard.
That's an incredible move byPessoa.
He just kicks around the guard.

(39:59):
He just comes back with adouble, follows his double with
a single and scores a 16-15 joke23 seconds left and this is
exactly what kick window is allabout.
The match is hope Fighterslaying it on the line.
Winner take all in the final.
This is round two.
If we see another round, we'regoing to have to keep going.

(40:19):
Cj Nicholas throws a body shotdoesn't get it.
Does get one.
Throws a head shot doesn't getit.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Nicholas gets a head kick.
So there it goes again, themysterious head kick.
So watch this, you guys stillthere.

Speaker 5 (40:38):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
All right, let me slow it down a little.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
I mean, I think this was again I think we've probably
seen this match always together.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
I've seen this match before, but like I, like that.

Speaker 3 (40:50):
Neither one of them went away.
You know what I mean.
Neither one of them went away.
They kept taking shots theentire time.
I mean, unfortunately, I'vebeen doing this and watching
these games for so long thisstarts to look normal, a little
bit other than thatultra-sensitivity of the chest
guard.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Nothing, not anywhere near the face.
Damn, that's true.
Not even near the face.
That's ridiculous.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
Hey hey, he's like left leg, shoot you to the face
and Joe's going to spin.
You know he's going to look forthat turn and it's close.
That back kick is very close.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Anyway, that's all we can watch of this, because it's
over though three seconds left.
There's no seconds left, itdoesn't matter, all right, uh,
so anyway, let's go back to allof this.
So let you know, just on firstglance, for whatever it's worth,
um, if you were going to countthat, if you were going to look

(41:47):
at that as a real match and infairness to the level of
taekwondo, and if you're goingto score it legitimately,
point-wise and this is notuncommon in Taekwondo, but there
are a lot of points thatweren't scored, that should have
been scored, that were actualpoints, like round kicks On the

(42:11):
other side of it, the punchpoints.
Probably I would have giventhose two.
But the hook I mean themajority of the match was weird
up balls, some of which weredecent and most of which were
crap.
There was no stepping, it waslinear and linear, with no

(42:34):
complex motions of attack andretreat counter.
There literally is no countermatrix, meaning I attack and
then I use that as a precursorto set up taekwondo technique.
So my best example of this istrap back kick.
I round kick.
You try to pata chagi.

(42:55):
I do back kick, or back hookkick, you do double kick,
counter whatever.
None of that happens.
So when you take all of thatand then add the hook kicks to
the body, the missing face kicksthat score.
What are you left with?
And then the scoring systemthat can't discern what a
pointer is or isn't.
So what are you left with?

Speaker 3 (43:17):
where am I?
What am I?
missing I got.
You know it's funny because Isaid I think I'm a little numb
to it.
I'm very, very numb to itbecause I've seen this system do
this a bunch of times.
I've seen these kind of matcheswhere obviously, if we're just
speaking very generally, thefront leg rules the game.
It's closer to the body, I canmake contact early before you
can make contact with your backleg.
We're amazed and thrilled tosee someone who doubles and

(43:39):
triples or who changes up anddoes something different.
It's exciting because themajority of the game is played a
certain way, out of safety, outof necessity of touching the
chess card, out of necessity ofjust getting close.
So it's like I'm a little numbto it, but watching it back a
little bit, it definitely takesthe juice out of that match.
For me, because they are bothgreat competitors, it is a
lively match.
I've seen, like I said, the upballs, up balls, yes, here and

(44:04):
there.
The way he wrapped his foot,yes, just normal cj's dynamic.
Cj goes to the face, he follows.
I think the only good takeawayfor me to imagine that neither
one of them kind of went away.
They kind of fought each otherand stood there.
But you're right, and thekorean boy.
To be honest with you, the pacegame, he he's all pace.
He's gonna go forward, forward,forward, forward and until you
get tired and he's okay, okaywith going three rounds.
I think this time he wasn'table to get it to a third round,
but I feel like for him that'salways the goal.

(44:25):
He fights a lot of tall, bigger80s and it's the same game,
it's the same pace.
He pushes them, he pushes them,he pushes them until they fall
over and that's like his styleof Taekwondo.
I think that's the only.
I think either your technicalor your pace you have right now
in this game Not too much inbetween.
You know, I mean, the greatfighters do some stuff, that's
cool, but that's just where weare.
You got to kick more, to scoremore and unfortunately, I know,

(44:48):
love it or hate it, but that'swhere we are.

Speaker 4 (44:49):
Listen, young, when you break it down like there was
nothing, it was linear.
It was this there's no steps,there's style is?
He's short?
He fights these giants, thisdude.
They say go and you see himlike the referees have to push
him back every time.
He's all gas and when he getsgoing he wraps his foot.

(45:12):
He hits pretty good and prettyheavy.
But that's that style.
I'm thinking in my head rightnow when I watch the
heavyweights.
Alessio, you saw just theopposite.
They're checking, they'removing, they're
counter-up-balling, they'reclinching.
It's much more of a chess match.
Those two just happen to be allgo and when they get with each

(45:33):
other it looks a little bit likethat.
Now add on the scoring systemabsolutely 1,000% sucks, because
it rewarded some of that stuff.
Um, that's where you know.
I didn't watch it like that.
You're right.
There was two face shots thatprobably didn't score.
There's a back kick that shouldhave scored, that should have
had points added on.
There was a front hand punchthat shouldn't score because

(45:55):
they told it's illegal.
Look at that.
Six, eight, nine points infavor of usa in there.
That's crazy.
That's crazy when it comes downto a close match.
But I agree with TJ, this wastwo guys that had figured out
the system a little bitthroughout the day.
They got there and they justkind of, they just clashed, they
just clashed and one guy gotthe better of the system.

(46:17):
That's all I can say on thatone.
That's really.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Yeah, I mean I don't, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (46:23):
I think we compare it to like I know, I know kind of
where you're, I guess not whereyou're going.
We were talking about justagain, like the spatial
awareness, like normally oldschool tech window.
We're never one person notgoing off the line Other person
if we looking at you like whatthe heck?

(46:44):
But I think two things.
I think back then, whetherpeople don't like to hear it or
not, there were more bigger,devastating shots.
If you made a mistake you couldgo to sleep really fast.
That's just the reality,Whether it be a back kick to the
ribs or something hard to theface.
But we got into this era ofTaekwondo where you can afford
to take more shots.
You can afford to take moreshots.
The risk of taking more shotsis, while doing those things,

(47:07):
maybe something gets close toyour face, maybe something
scrapes, but it's not a fear ofgetting hit.
So people are throwing a littlebit more stuff.
They're kicking the wrong side,they're back hook kicking to
the other side.
Those are like the I call themfinesse points.
Those are finesse points ofsport tech window right now,
Stuff that you would never throwin any way, shape or form.
That's going to like applydamage to someone.

(47:28):
It's just foot placement, it'sjust body placement, it's just
angle, closing and opening.
But it's again like if youcompare it to the two, I think
you can just like, if we'vegotten there because there's not
as much devastating, we don'thave to check off everything.
I know they're going to respond, I know they're going to lift
their leg to stop me so I canthrow a couple more risky shots
or whatever you want to callthem, or kick more without

(47:49):
checking or motioning or moving.
I can just kind of start andsee off the clash or off the
exchange.
Where do I go from there?

Speaker 2 (47:56):
so what I'm going to do, I'm going to give you uh,
I'm going to do one more share,and this is a long time ago, so
for whatever it's worth, right?
So let's just watch this for 10seconds.
So this is the worldchampionships 89 yep and watch

(48:17):
the watch the level of so mydivision yeah, yeah, basically
they're fighting.
you know a similar fight, right,but watch the Korean, see the
stepping and the moving.
And then you're going to seeattack and release, you're going
to see counters, you're goingto see setup, right, and I could

(48:38):
pick a million matches likethis, and of course, there's a
lot of bad matches as well.
There's a counter, there's are-counter, there's an answer,
there's an in and out, out in,back in.
So when you watch these kind ofmatches, you're seeing a
different, and this guy isobviously overwhelmed.

(48:59):
So here let me give you onelast one, one of our favorites.
I like this pace better.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
I mean, like you know , just being in Teguado's, I
like this pace better.
Obviously, I think we havechanged.
I mean it's just touch thechess card and try to make it go
off.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
This is Kim Chorol.
See the exchange of techniques,see the in and the out right
and watch same tournament, bythe way, 89.
This is where he becomes worldchampion.
And great fighters.
They're trying techniques inand out.

(49:34):
They're stepping right.
There's a multi-directionalaspect to it and, albeit fin,
weights right.
I think this is fin or fly,it's.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
This fly must be fly what I guess like what have you
named again?
And we shouldn't have to dothis.
I think it was very understoodbefore.
But, like boxing, you got youryour jab, you got your your
cross, you got your hook, yougot your uppercut.
You got those things, and thoseare what the, the referees, are
looking for for scoringtechniques.
What have we limited to that?
You got your hook, you got youruppercut, you got those things,
and those are what the, thereferees, are looking for for
scoring techniques.

(50:06):
What have we limited to that?
You got your front leg up ball.
You got your back leg roundkick.
You have ax kick.
You got back kick.

Speaker 5 (50:10):
But we take away all the the reason you just say it
just doesn't score

Speaker 3 (50:14):
like it's not a scoring technique and just leave
it at that I don't I'm yellingtoo much, I guess.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Huh well, chinese type of players their coaches
are known for being extrapassionate about the fight.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
And this must be Juan .
Where's 99?
Is that Cal?

Speaker 5 (50:28):
Oh, he's got one Edmonton, this time on the.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Korean side.

Speaker 5 (50:33):
That ref looks familiar to me.
Well, that's Mr Bruce Harrisfrom the United States, very
seasoned as an internationalreferee and well-loved and
respected throughout theinternational community.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Let me go here.
There's a lot of peoplewatching this.
Let's see what's going on.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Good, moving around Two seconds, one second.

Speaker 6 (50:54):
Oh, another hit for the.

Speaker 5 (50:55):
Chinese Right at the last second of the fight
Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Oh my God, that's Bruce Harris.

Speaker 6 (50:59):
Oh geez.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
But look at the attempts on counters, look at
this stuff.
I mean, look at the level, thecomplexity of technique.
Look at the attacking matrix.
And you could make an argument.
It was a little more boringright?
There's not as much action.

Speaker 6 (51:17):
But when the action happened, it was real action
Three to one.

Speaker 5 (51:22):
Yeah, this is how I learned Tech.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Wonder.
But when the action happened,you know it was real action,
right?
Yeah, this is how I learnedTaekwondo.

Speaker 5 (51:28):
This is how I was taught Taekwondo.
You know, we're just not thereanymore.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
I think we have to kick everyone's.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
being a little smart create opportunities, put in
their foot, whatever, and lookat even this.
All right, I'm going to put upone last one, because this is
the highlights of the 88Olympics.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
What if you only traded zero DTE options around
events that are 100% guaranteedto?

Speaker 2 (51:46):
happen.
I encourage people to go outand kind of look at these and do
the comparison right.
See the stepping Like rightthere.

(52:09):
For example, enter releasenunchuck.

Speaker 4 (52:14):
Right, but the game is exactly what TJ said.
I'll wait till it's done, soyou can hear me.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
But look at, I mean, do you see the stepping and the
multiple techniques, thecombinations, and this is what's
lost.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
But the problem is All right.
You can't hear me because I'mtalking.
You can hear that it's too muchNow the problem is that it's
just a scoring Back.
In our day you couldn't gettouched because you can hear
that it's too much.
Now the problem is that it'sjust a scoring.
Back in our day you couldn'tget touched because you'd get
touched and made a big noise orwhatever.
It was a subjective thing andreferees would push the button.

(52:51):
So you were always stepping.
There was no, like TJ said.
Now you take chances becausethe worst thing is you get
touched.
You might touch them.
It's a 50-50 chance.
So back in our day you didn'twant to get touched so it
allowed for bigger points in outtraps, draws, motions.
Yeah, I mean it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
I always, always tell people we change when.
When I grew up, we never tookpaddles or shields or noodles or
had the person kick us andpractice blocking like it was.
We just didn't play.
It wasn't about that.
I wanted to make you miss, hitafterwards, change the angle,
stop your attack from gettingclose and kick.
And now we practice blocking.
We practice the foot, notgetting contact on a chest guard

(53:32):
, and we encourage it.
Good, keep it away, shut itdown, close it off, make sure it
doesn't slide.
So now, if your goal is toblock and be in space to touch
afterwards, then do you have to?
I guess my question is I lovemotion and movement.
Let me start there.
I do a lot of motion andmovement-based training.
I do it for warm-up, I do itfor cool-down, I mix it in.
But I guess my question wouldbe to you, coach do you need it?

(53:53):
Do you think it's a necessityin the game?

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Does that make you that much better, you an
advantage in the long haul?
What do you think that fits innow?
I think you have to look at it.
Go ahead, coach, I'm sorry, no,no, go ahead.
So here's two dynamic playersright which we know, both of
them.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
I mean, obviously we get it he fought the same on
electronics, though yeah, youcan right, but so I mean, you
know, this is he fought the same.
He was special, he was different, that was his, that was his
thing, like.
But he fought the same onelectronics and regular chess
cards and sometimes it wasamazing and you watch him run
the whole tournament and thensometimes it's like you know,
some Russian guy comes on with along foot and he just scores a

(54:42):
billion points on him.
You're like confused so I don'tknow, but he fought the same,
both he's.
He's just him.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
So it goes back to a fundamental look at this the
escape, the enter, the recounter.
I mean the level of technicalsuperiority you have to have to
be able to fight like this.
You're attacking, coming down,watch this Attack, counter
re-attack come back.
I mean the level of movementand understanding of the game

(55:10):
and, in real time, being able tounderstand how this works and
how it all fits together.
That's taekwondo, right.

Speaker 4 (55:17):
Well, anyway, we're not there, we're not there.
But anyway, such is life, andthat's the better question.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Right, so ask.
We're not there.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
We're not there.
But anyway, such is life andthat's the better question,
right?

Speaker 2 (55:24):
So ask yourself that question.
And it was a good question.
Now you find yourself trying toexplain what you're watching
and the question I was going toask both of you and I'll leave
it for next time.
Could you think of one match atthe grand prix challenge final

(55:46):
song and dance british imitationaccent contest?
Uh, that it was.
Could you find one match in thatthat you would say was a a good
match and you could say here'swhy we do, here's why we do it,
here's why we do it.
Is there one match that youwould say because I could go
back to the 88 Olympics and Icould pull up eight to 10

(56:07):
matches that I would say here'swhy I think this Taekwondo is
better.
I could go to the 92 Olympicsand not any of my matches, but I
could pull a few matches fromthat and say here's why we do it
.
I could go to the 2000 Olympics.
I could probably go all the wayup to 2008 and say here's why

(56:27):
Taekwondo should be like thisand this is why we should reward
technical and power equally,and here's how it was supposed
to work.
My answer is no.
My answer is no.

Speaker 4 (56:41):
My answer is no.
Okay is no.
My answer is no.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (56:44):
There was not one match that I could go for.
Was there some exciting matches?
Yeah, was there some crazycomebacks?

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:49):
Was there some things that I, like TJ, said I'm numb
to it, that I just say yeah.
But if you ask me to put amatch that I just show the world
this is the beauty of taekwondoout there wasn't, there wasn't
a match, I mean.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
So that's, that's, that's the same thing we call a
purist, the guy that loveswatching fights, but but no so
that's the same thing we talkabout each week, and this is why
you know taekwondo has lost itsway.
And so my point is the originalreason taekwondo mattered was
we kicked better, harder andmore skillfully than any other

(57:25):
martial art, and one of thereasons I didn't do, with all
respect to my point, fightingbrothers I didn't do point.
Fighting is I didn't want to dothat yeah, it looked like this.
I didn't want to do that.
That wasn't what I valued.
I liked kicking people hard.

(57:45):
I liked kicking people andknocking them out if I could,
and I liked that dynamic.
That's why I did Taekwondo,because I thought it was
effective and I thought itmattered.
And then the complex nature.
Dr Kaepernick, for example,when he studied at Dungsung and
stayed in korea, hisunderstanding of the technical
matrix of motion, empty in fullspace.

(58:07):
And when it was explained to me, then I understood why I like
taekwondo.
Because if you do taekwondocorrectly, for every attack
there is a counter, for everycounter there's a re-counter.
It fits like a hand and a glove.
There are worse and better ones, but you can technically
explain how it works and why.
And once you understand that,that's why you need motion

(58:32):
forwards, motion backwards,motion sideways, motion, this
motion, that.
And when you see it done, well,there was a guy to put up this
video that I keep seeing on myfeet on um tiktok and he says
old school taekwondo challenge.
And it's literally the stepwhere you step forward, then you
sidestep and hit.
So you go forward to draw theattack, you sidestep and when

(58:56):
they kick you're to the side.
It's like pot of chuggy movingforward.
And when you watch the, it's abeautiful step and when it's
done well, it's so beautiful.
And if you go like this and youstep here and he round kicks
you back, kick and it's.
And it typifies, it exemplifieswhat taekwondo is an option
tree.
The taekwondo that I watch nowand that we just watched isn't

(59:20):
an option tree.
It's a zero sum game.
I kick, maybe I lift my foot up.
If I lift my foot up, you liftyour foot up.
And whoever lifts their foot upand gets lucky scores a point.
And because of the electronicsand it's not yeah, that's.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
I mean.
I just think we keep going incircles because you just said
right there, it's all because ofthe electronics.
It's not because the athletescan't do it or don't want to do
it, no, they just figure out away to score and it's all
because they got to win.
That's their job.
Maybe, maybe, if they did whattj said.
You can only kick withroundhouse kick, side kick and
axing and backing.
You can't do any of these otherlittle things.
Just like in boxing you can'thit with the side or the top.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
You gotta hit with the front of the fist.
Punch right, you don't pushpunch like right.

Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
So unless they fix the electronics or take the
electronics which they're notgoing to take the electronics
out they're here forever.
They're not going anywhere.
The best thing they could do isfix it why, but why not?
You said that as a statement.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
I know you guys always say that as a statement
I'm going to tell you that thereare sports where they've taken
electronics away.
It's not going back Becausethey can't score.
Why?

Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
You can go back in the old days without a phone,
but it's not going backwards.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Why it's money.

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
It's quote unquote fair If they fix it, if they fix
the system and they can, youcannot tell me they cannot fix a
system for a combative sport.
They can fix it, they don'twant to.
They cannot fix a system for acombative sport, they can fix it
, they don't want to.
Too expensive to whatever it is, they can fix it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Our sport would be great if the shit worked.
It would be great.
They can't.
The only way they can fix it isto go to a power-based system,
because then all the nonsensetechniques go away so you can
fix.
Now you can.
I'm going to give you, I'llchallenge you to do this, with
the exception of time basedsports or measurable sports like

(01:01:10):
weight lifting hold on a secondno, no, there are other sports
gymnastics.
How's it judged?

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
I get it.
It's subjective.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
I get it.
There are a number ofsubjective sports that have
suffered the same way.

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
But it's different.
It's different.
It's different because ingymnastics, if I do a fucking 27
flips in the air land, I getmore points than if you do one.
That's just the way it is.
And when they're that close,they're not that close.
Someone is, someone is better,and it's subjective.
But you're looking attechniques when you're fighting.
You can't do that.
I mean well you're skating youcan, you can, but they're not

(01:01:49):
against each other, they're not.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
I was having a conversation with one of our
young guys and we're talkingabout like, like, back kicks and
backspin, hook kicks and like,oh well, if up, all and back
you're gonna be the same, whywould I back kick and I'm like?
Because your opponent made amistake.
Up-ball and back-kick are goingto be the same.
Why would I back-kick and I'mlike?
Because your opponent made amistake?
Because they came too far withtheir back leg and you countered
it and you hit them heavy tothe body.
There was a purpose ofback-kicking.
Now we back-kick at the end ofmatches.
We haven't done one back-kickthe whole match.

(01:02:11):
We back-kick just becausethere's more point kicks went
crazy.
That's why more people aregoing to touch to their face.
Because I just got to get closeenough for it to touch.
I don't even have toeffectively hit you anymore.
It changes the concept.
Everything changes.
At that point I think coachingis a little tougher.
Obviously, training is a littletougher.

(01:02:31):
I think there are parts andbits and pieces that we put in
there, but the majority of it.
You can't just be one way andthen negate all the little
touching and stuff.
You got to be able to do alittle bit of both.

Speaker 4 (01:02:41):
I agree with you.
We should go back to what youwould call push buttons.
If you have professional eyes,that do it professionally, like
figure skating, like whatevergymnastics.
But even then they go back andthey look oh, she stepped out of
bounds, oh, she completed it,oh, she didn't complete it.
If we had great referees wewould do it, but they don't.
They don't want it, they'regoing to keep the electronics.

(01:03:02):
It's going forward.
So my thing is don't gobackwards and take it away.
Fix what you have.
They should have fixed it.
We've said this since westarted this podcast.
They should have fixed thereferees back in 2007 and 8,
because the electronics startedwith the Justin 2008.
They should have fixed it backthen, but they didn't.
They went to electronics.
Here we are, 8 to 12, 16, 21,24.

(01:03:24):
We're on our fifth quad 20years almost of electric you
know, not quite but ofelectronics.
So they should fix it.
I don't disagree with you.
They should go to, you know,human element, but they're not
going back.
So my thing is fix it, fix, fixit, fix it to public.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
Do you think the one?
Yeah, they did that with theadidas system though that was,
and people were like me and eachother in the clinch and punch
it in the stomach and like againfor, for a lack of it, we, we
always create a way to kind ofmake it so again, it goes back
to what I've said since thebeginning fix the referees, you
fix the sport, so the sport, soyou can have a combination of
both.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
But as soon as you take, if you can't fix the
referees and you don't trust thereferees either because they're
inept, unable or corrupt, thenyou have the same problem,
because you can fix the Adidasor the power-based systems by
letting the referee take awayillegal techniques, and you have
it in all sorts of sports.
By letting the referee takeaway illegal techniques, and you
have it in all sorts of sports.

(01:04:23):
If somebody takes a shot inbasketball and their foot's on
the line, the referee can say itwas on the line.

Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
I got the fix.
I got the fix.
You want the fix.
You go for one quad.
One quad cadet and juniors andnow under 21.
Everything goes back to oldschool.
Take the electronics off and letthis generation of kids fight
like this, from cadets tojuniors to under 21.

(01:04:50):
The referees you're going toneed special referees for that
and then you can show with yourdata, with your winners now that
we have all that stuff that itcan be done, with referees
pushing the buttons, scoring itproperly, and then you can
reenter it into a Pan AmericanGames or Olympic Games.
You know what I'm saying?
Like you could do it, becauseright now they say, oh, but we

(01:05:12):
need these.
No, no, if you're a cadet,you're a junior under 21, you
fight under these rules and it'straining referees.
It.
You fight under these rules andit's training referees.
It's training a new generationof people.
You'll see, those people willadapt to what you know, herb,
what I know more power base,more explosion base, because
referees are not going to.
There was not a referee in theplanet that would score a hook,

(01:05:33):
kick to the back.
There's not a referee in theplanet that would score a little
side kick in the clinch.
They wouldn't even look at it,they wouldn't even flinch to it.
They'd be looking for big shotsimmediately.
The Koreans, the Iranians, theTurkish, the Americans, the
Russians, brazilians, everybodywould just flip the script just
like that.
Then you would have a base ofpeople.
You can go to the OlympicCommittee and say here we are,

(01:05:56):
here's how our Olympic format isgoing to change.
When it's successful, when itlooks amazing, we'll be done
forever.
We'll change forever.

Speaker 5 (01:06:05):
That's the only way One for president.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Well, I'm going to give you guys some homework
because it's over an hour, sowe've got to wrap it up here in
a minute.
But I thought this was a goodexercise All right

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
go ahead Go.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
I'll give you homework later.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
Okay, real fast.
Change two things.
When is the Olympic proceduresupposed to be produced for the
United States?

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
A year before the process starts.
So in other words, let's sayyou say a year before the
process starts.
So in other words and there's alogical reason for that let's
say that you have.
You say we are going to countall the points from the past
year and add them to theselection process.
Had I known that, I might'vecompeted in more or less

(01:06:49):
tournaments.
So you got to announce theprocedures a year in advance,
from before before the Olympics,first of all.
Second of all, before theprocess starts, so that I, if
you can't put you can't putprevious qualifications into a
current process, because had Iknown, then I might've gone to
different things.
So it's just common sense forthat.

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
So my question is TJ, because we all know there's
going to be a point reset nextyear, right?
So theoretically, shouldn'tthey be out right now, because
then our Olympic stuff isbasically January of 2028, right
, believe?
Well, we'll have to see.
I mean, I could be wrong, butthe United States is going to

(01:07:45):
have to choose divisions and Iwould like to know how they're
going to choose divisions, right?
First, second, third, fourth,how they're going to choose them
.
They're going to have to chooseathletes that can either
compete in those or they justselect.
How are those athletes going tobe selected?
Will there be any, any kind ofif we're in the same division
and we're close in ranking orwhatever?
Will there be a fight out, likewhat are they going to be?

(01:08:07):
the the metrics of this, becauseit's really important, because
if the united states doesn'tqualify two men and two women,
or three men, number three andfour or four and they have to
get the automatic bids, likefrance did they're going to have
to decide what categories menand women, what athletes men and
women, and what are the metricsto be those persons selected.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
What are the most categories the US can get?

Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
Two, oh no, four, four.
Every country can get four Ifyou qualify for the ranking top
five in the world.
And thin fly welter heavy onboth sides.
That's the most, no one's evergot it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
But I thought the host country automatically gets
those eight.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
They get two and two.
A full Olympic team is fourpeople Only.
Per the ranking, can you gettwo extra males and two extra
females.

Speaker 4 (01:08:56):
If you have one qualifying.
See, the United States is in aweird situation, but let's just
say Brazil.
Let's say we qualify one man byranking, we only can send one
more to the qualifier.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
Women same thing, two Same thing that's happened in
Canada last time around as wellwith Skylar.
Same thing.
Skylar qualified direct, sothey only have one Olympic
division up for contestant thereyou go.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
So the US can get a total of eight.

Speaker 4 (01:09:19):
They could but I mean , I don't want to say all
athletes would have to qualifytop five.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
Wouldn't it make more sense for the US, if they can,
to qualify guys who can make thetop six?

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Say that again.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
Yes, in other words, if they have guys that can
qualify, then they take those.
They make those guys qualify,then they take those.
They make those guys qualify,then they pick the other two
that couldn't qualify.

Speaker 4 (01:09:46):
No, but you can't do that.
You can't do that.
What do you mean as the hostcountry?
For example, let's say you hadtwo men that qualified.
Let's just say CJ and JohnHaley.
They both qualified top five.
You're in Right, but the womenwere number eight, nine and ten.

Speaker 5 (01:10:03):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
As the host country, you can go we want these two and
we're going to forfeit thoseother women, we don't want them.
Or we can say we'll take thewild cards two and two, so when
we're in the top five, also intop six, the sixth person comes
in.
They get it, and then, as thehost country, we take the number
four seat.
It's a weird rule, but that'swhat they do.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
I guess my point is if you had people that If you
had people that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
The Olympics is the fourth seat.
I never understood why the hostcountry got a better seat or
worse or worse seat, dependingon what you do.

Speaker 4 (01:10:37):
France had the two number one women's seat and they
went to number four.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Yeah, but what I'm trying to figure out is how many
.
So my point is if the US canqualify two people guaranteed,
or they get two people thatqualify by points, they can
still get Two or two, two girls,two guys basically.
Yeah, but let's say two qualifyon the men's side and then you
have to use two of your hostcards for the women.
Aren't you left with two hostcards for the?

Speaker 4 (01:11:06):
men?
No, you can't.
No, you're not understanding me.
If you have, like you said, iftwo men qualified and two women
did it, then you're out of luck.
You got two choices.
Two choices Keep thesequalified and give those up so
they can go by their ranking.
Or you say we're going to givethese up, we're going to pick
them anyway.
We're going to give them up,we're going to take them as the

(01:11:27):
host country.
Wild cards Right?
And we come in.
And since we were in the topfive, somebody comes down.
That was number six they get in.
So that's the way you can do it.
That's the only way.
When you Anyway, when you'rethe host country, you got to
take it all or nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
So you can't get eight, you can only get a total
of four.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
If you qualify for the ranking.
You could If you got four menthat qualified and four women.
But if you get four men and nowomen, you got to choose your
two.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
That's crazy.
That means someone qualifiedtop yeah, so wait so wait, wait,
wait, rewind, cause maybe Imissed that part.
Just so I'm clear.
For four, four males qualifyall four divisions zero, women,
women go donut.
We're left with these fourmales.
There's four of them.
We don't get to take all fourof those spots.

(01:12:17):
We'd have to choose two ofthose spots.

Speaker 4 (01:12:18):
We'd have to choose two of those spots.
We could, but then we don'ttake any women.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
I see what you're saying.
So then we go two and then two,yeah, okay, okay, yeah, we're
on the same page.
I thought you were saying like,for whatever reason, if zero
qualified.
But I would say, if I said Icould still send four males and
go no, olympic team for women.

Speaker 4 (01:12:35):
You could.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):
That's an option, right.

Speaker 4 (01:12:37):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
We're on the same page, okay, so anyway you better
be better off taking the women,cause they have a better
history of meddling.

Speaker 4 (01:12:44):
So my other question was so that was election or
selection procedures.
I just again, we just opened acan of worms, but I think they
need to be out there, causepeople should know.
But then my other question iswell, should, if athletes are
getting money as stipend, shouldit be, if you're on the
national team and some peopleare getting stipends and some

(01:13:06):
people aren't, up until theworld championship, fair or not
fair based on if you're at theacademy?
So if I'm an academy athleteand I'm going to the world
championships, I get extra moneyIf I'm not at the academy.
I'm in California and I justhappen to not be at the academy,
but I'm on the national teamShould I be excluded for money?
No, or should I be getting it?

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Money.
Money is.
Money is given so athletes cantrain and there's an argument to
be made that the athletes thatare not at the Academy should
get money more because they needthe money more.
But I mean, the reality is thatyou know they should use the
Herb Perez Olympic funding modeland my funding model is really
easy Herb Perez Olympic fundingmodel and my funding model is
really easy.
So I take a full team to aworld championship or a Grand

(01:13:45):
Prix Poo Bob or whatever, or theBritish version of America's
Got Talent and I bring you.
You win your first match, I payfor your hotel room.
You win your second match, Ipay for your hotel room.
You win your second match, Ipay for your plane ticket home.

(01:14:06):
Here's all after the fact, youlose, yeah, you lose, your first
match.
I don't you owe me money foryour plane ticket to the event
and good luck getting home, andyou don't have a hotel room to
stay in, so I I at that point.

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
I get what you're saying.
I get what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
I think, when we were again and maybe quote me if I'm
wrong.
By the way, I would have gottenhome and had my hotel paid for
with all my internationaltournaments, with the exception
of one.

Speaker 3 (01:14:32):
Yeah, I think at one point they were using the
ranking to have people fund ittoo.
That was also part of theprocess.
So if you were someone that wasperforming at a high level or
within a certain rank andobviously again we're talking
about thinking ahead that numberwould expand now, with the
number going to zero, blah, blah, blah and all those things.
There's still an option forfunding just through the pure

(01:14:53):
ranking, but you're 100% right.
Now it's again we're in thesame era of I that the funding
being kind of, like you said,solo to one room.
It's favoritism.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
In other words, there's a difference between
encouraging people toparticipate.
So the olympic committee hasdone a lot of studies on this
and the studies go like thiswhere does money matter most?
So does money matter asincentive?
The answer is no.
Money matters.
On bubbles, kids on the bubbleof performance, podium
performance.
That money matters becausethat's going to help them do

(01:15:26):
things that'll make them metalpotential.
If you gave Joe blow, jean blow, a million dollars if they win
an Olympic gold medal, itdoesn't help.
It doesn't help them.
That's if money, if I win money.
You need money to prepare, totrain, train, to do whatever
else.
So if you have a kid who's atthe academy, has no, no expenses

(01:15:48):
eating bangers and mash and noexpenses, then you have a kid in
california and temecula andneeds money to get to his
training.
Needs money because he needs tobuy a car so he can go train.
His training facility is anhour away, needs gas money and

(01:16:08):
food money so that he can trainsix hours a day.
Arguably that kid needs morebecause his expenses are more.

Speaker 4 (01:16:16):
That's my point.
I'm just asking listen, if theyhave money to give to some
people, shouldn't they spread itout to some of these other
people, especially in this dayand age?
We know cadets aren't gettingpaid.
Need-based.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
Juniors aren't getting paid.

Speaker 4 (01:16:25):
Need-based, Need-based and again yeah, I
just I've heard to the grapevinethere might be some extra money
given out to people per monthup until the world championship.
Know that that have to pay fortheir own training, have to pay
for their own travel, have topay for their own, you know,
remember doug lewis when he didthose figures for us and he told

(01:16:48):
us how much money.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
Taekwondo has in the bank they're, they're actually
at risk of losing their 5013cstatus because you're as a 5013c
, you can't profit and you can'tbankroll money unless you show
why the money's bankrolled.
So if USA Taekwondo and Jay andSteve and that clown show, the

(01:17:10):
last Jay and Steve is fromClerks the movie, now we have it
internally If they'rebankrolling that money and
paying for their plane ticketsto go to Korea and drink soju
and eat bulgogi and they're notfunding the athletes in the
athletic pipeline, they'reviolating the 5013c's purpose
and mission and actually, youknow they're slick.

Speaker 4 (01:17:28):
I mean they're gonna, they're gonna put it somewhere
somehow, some way.
You know the fact.
The matter is we know theathletes at all these levels are
not getting money and most ofthem aren't getting paid for it,
maybe the big events like worldchampionships for seniors, of
course, but you know, myquestion was if there's extra
money, I think they shouldspread it to everyone, did you?

Speaker 3 (01:17:45):
say, the national team members were getting extra
payment leading up to the worldchampionships.
You said they should be gettingextra payment leading up to the
world championships.

Speaker 4 (01:17:51):
I think that some may be getting extra.
So it's not like that.
It's not like you're on anational team like everyone, the

(01:18:12):
entire national team.
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.
Do you have tj?
You know what a yolk is a yolk?
A yolk no.
You know what a yolk is a yolk?
No, I know, I know egg yolk isI don't think that's why.

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
Okay, so there's a yolk, and back in the day yolk
was something you did tosomebody.
It was was like if you hookedthe guy in the face for speaking
out of turn.
But a yoke in colloquialparlance is that.
But in real life a yoke issomething you put around an ox
or a mule so that they can dragthe plow, the plow.

(01:18:43):
So as long as you allowyourself to have a yoke on which
is what most members of USATaekwondo do you're dragging the
plow.
So at some point, usa Taekwondo, its membership, its lifetime
members, its regular members,its $50 members need to throw
the yoke off.
So if you continue to allow youallow them to do this, they'll
to do it.
It's not until america and theathletes in america say stop

(01:19:04):
paying for the british coachesto live in great britain and and
not coach here.
Stop paying for theunsuccessful coaches here.
Stop paying for theunsuccessful organization and
the plane tickets of jay.
I saw another picture of jay inkorea eating kimchi and
drinking soju at another worldevent.
At which point are you guysgoing to stop paying for those

(01:19:26):
plane tickets and start payingfor the cadets to go perform?

Speaker 4 (01:19:30):
So we're paying for they got cameramen and stuff
like that and little announcerspaying.
They're not paying for thesekids, but anyway, we'll talk
about a little bit more in themorning.
We'll get more money and theaward I'm going to be getting
from USA Taekwondo Real quickbefore we go.

Speaker 3 (01:19:45):
you said someone came to you and they had a quote for
you, or it says something youlike a what was that.
What was that?

Speaker 4 (01:20:02):
Let's end with that and then we'll.
He's like I used to carry theweight of everyone's problems.
I used to carry the weight ofeveryone's problems.
I give my best advice, investmy time and take every setback
in my circle personally, like Isaid, like I had failed them
somehow, but over time I learnedthat people have to walk their
own path.
I can't take it to heart whensomeone chooses a road that

(01:20:24):
leads to struggle.
These days, I still offersupport, share my philosophy and
speak up when it matters, butI've let go of the
responsibility of making sureeveryone ends up happy.
That's their job.
Mine is to live with integrity,lead by example and be at peace
, knowing I gave what I could.
That was my guy, josh fromHouston.
He's a very good businessgentleman, has a successful

(01:20:45):
school.
He does consulting for Maya.
But I happened to read thattoday and I was like you know
what?
It's true man.
Sometimes I think we'veprobably all been there.
We try to solve everyone'sproblems.
We try to help everybody.
We try to give, give, give,give and sometimes we get hurt.
Sometimes people turn theirback on us and you know all we

(01:21:06):
can do is give our advice andwhatever they do, they do, you
know, wish them well and and notlet it, you know, take little
pieces off us and just kind ofmove forward.
You know it's kind of a I think.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
I think that's a great, great, great quote.
Here's my version of the samething that I tell my son and I
give him this advice If you asksomebody for advice, or somebody
asked me for advice, I giveadvice and I give it freely.
I have no expectation thatsomebody will follow my advice,
so you'll ask me for advice.
If you ask me for help, now I'minvested in you.

(01:21:39):
I'm fully.
If I offer my help, it'sbecause I'm investing in you and
I fully expect you to listen tothe help that I give you.
And now I'm invested in you andI will help you achieve your
goal.
So when I give advice andpeople ask me for advice, I give
it freely.
If you ask me for help, that'sdifferent.
I'm going to a different leveland so I'm not helping USA

(01:22:02):
Taekwondo.
I'm advising people what to dobecause I've helped before and
when I turn around, I'm standingthere looking at myself
fighting a fight that nobodyelse wants to fight or not
willing to fight.
At the point where people needhelp, they'll call for help and
that'll be a different level.
So I always encourage my sonand people like you and we've

(01:22:22):
had this conversation before askfor help, because then the
person you're asking for help isinvested in you and your
success.
Ask for advice.
Advice is free.
Take it or leave it.
I don't expect you to use it orwhatever, but that's the longer
version of the of my my thing.
So I always ask for help andnot for advice, unless I don't
really want help and then I willask for advice.

(01:22:44):
So, but such as this has been,this has been the warehouse 15.
And I'm reminded, cause wehaven't said it yet, and this is
not for TJ's mother, who I lovedearly, and I can't wait to go
to Virginia and see her andbring her a cake of some sort.

Speaker 4 (01:23:02):
He said he's going everywhere, he don't go nowhere.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
You don't go nowhere I'm going.
I'm going to Korea, actually,because my good friend and our
colleague, dr Capner, is goingto get his ninth degree.
I will point out that theyskipped over him for the
ceremony last week, so which heis, we'll talk about another
time.
But some guy in the kooky oneis going to be strapped to a

(01:23:26):
chair when I get there, becauseI don't know how you disrespect
dr kaepner and not invite him tohis ceremony so he can dress up
like I dressed up one of thosefunny looking uniforms.
That's why dude, I'm going towatch him taking pictures.
So in september, if you'rebored you got nothing else to do
come watch dr capner, join theninth don club and uh, and I'm

(01:23:47):
looking forward to that.
But with that said, just thelast thing to remind everybody
of if we've said something thatoffended you, caused you to
think, caused you to pause,question your sensibilities and
your sense and purpose in life,sorry, not sorry.
This has been the warehouse 15.
We are out today and tj.

(01:24:08):
One last thing before we go, Iwill take two of those
treadmills and stair masses thatyou're selling on late night tv
with that headgear.
We are out.
Tj's mom, sorry, sorry laterpeace.

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