February 28, 2025 • 42 mins
What defines a great athlete? Is it inherent talent or the influence of dedicated coaching and training? In this episode, we unpack the long-standing debate of nature versus nurture in sports. Featuring engaging discussions, personal anecdotes, and insights from three experienced coaches, we explore the complex journey that athletes undertake to reach greatness.
From the excitement of training camps to unexpected fashion statements in the gym, our hosts share their personal experiences that shaped them into the athletes they are today. We unpack the metaphor of "weeds and flowers" to illustrate the disparities between naturally gifted athletes and those who thrive through determination and relentless hard work.
As our conversation evolves, we highlight the critical role that mentorship and effective coaching play in sculpting raw talent into extraordinary competence. Our hosts reflect on their relationships with mentors who not only honed their physical skills but instilled a sense of respect, discipline, and sportsmanship, underlining the importance of these traits in any athlete's journey.
We also discuss how cultural shifts have altered the expectations for athlete behavior, pushing for a balance between performance and etiquette in sports. With each story, we encourage listeners to reflect on their own journeys, the coaches who impacted their lives, and the ingredients that stimulated their unique paths to success. Join us for a thought-provoking conversation that challenges perceptions of athleticism and reaffirms the balance between being born and being made. Listen, engage, and discover what truly makes an athlete great!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
to the warehouse 15 and we are back again, and I am
the Grandmaster of Disaster, asusual, joined by my colleagues,
cohorts and contemporaries.
How are you doing today, CoachMoreno?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm doing great.
First of all, I'm digging thatshirt right there, Coach TJ, you
like that?
I just saw the picture and I'mlike that's the joint, right
there I'm good guys, I'm excited, I'm going.
That's the joint right there.
I'm good guys.
I'm excited.
I'm going to Chicago tomorrowfor one of my fast camps.
I have one this month and thenI have one next month and
actually you're part of the Neckof the Woods Coach Grandmaster
Perez in Northern California.
(00:57):
So yeah, just got a freshhaircut I know you're looking
for those century rip cords andI'm going to send my boys
century.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
They'll get them for the next camp.
I didn't realize it was fortomorrow, my bad.
So we have the beautifulcentury rip cords, which were
designed many years ago.
Coach Moreno and I used them atmy first camp for another
company and then I brought themto century and within a day they
had a prototype for us and theycame up with a black, a red and
a green, and so they're stillthe state of the art.
(01:29):
Um, how you doing today, coach.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
TJ, wake up.
I'm telling, I'm telling yousecond my name.
I'm telling, I'm telling, I'mtelling your award.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I mean, I know it's hard man.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I got my guitars still in the right order up
there for you yeah, and I'mchilling, having a good day,
just, you know, excited toalways sit down and talk to you
guys.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I'm sure we got something good for today, so I'm
just just before we start,because I know last time you
gave out a shout out to yourpeople that you kind of worked
with a little bit.
So I gotta give a shout outtoday.
And I don't have my producthere, it's at my gym I feel bad.
But at Top TKD, well, they havea Taekwondo shoe out.
I purchased a couple of pairs alittle while ago.
(02:14):
Had some issues with the size.
They hooked me up.
So a shout out to Top TKD.
I like the shoes I'm going to.
When I get them next week I'llmake sure I bring them in.
I'll display them.
But pretty good so far I likethem I got this funky blue color
.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Sifu Harinda Singh, thank you again.
I am wearing my second Budojacket with the beautiful blue
interior, the red one's on thechair.
I wanted to break out the blue,but I'll have a phone call made
for you guys.
Just send me some sizes andwe'll see if we can get you.
But Budo Brothers again, thankyou, thank you, thank you.
I know you put out excellenttraining videos.
(02:53):
You work with Sifu HarindaSingh and others and some great
martial artists.
I know you started, but thisjacket, I mean Moreno, you would
look so good in this jacket Ican't even tell you what's what?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
No, no, no, look you guys look good today.
But no offense, but this is my.
I'm going to give a shout-outto my boy, peter Bardatos.
I got my Peter Bardatos.
I got my white v-neck and jeanson.
This is like an undershirtright here, boy.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Oh, that's classic.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
That's classic.
I got to find a sponsor now Igot to plug somebody, hey, if
y'all need to plug.
Let me know I got time nextweek.
You better find a clock.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
You got to be able to find a clock sponsor, an alarm
sponsor.
You know he's a little late onour calls.
We lost Moreno, left thebuilding.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Did immigration show up?
What happened, Flow man?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
what happened?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
What's flow?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
What's flow?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Come on, man, Help your thinking and stuff like
this man.
You ever seen this?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
You want to know something.
Somebody did tell me about it.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Somebody told me about it.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, they keep trying to get me to go back to
coffee.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
They want me to change my coffee up for
mushrooms and I'm like no man,I'm going to take them.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Have you tried mushroom coffee?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I have not.
But I also have not tried thecoffee where it's eaten by an
animal and then they poop it outand you take those beans and
make coffee.
So yeah, I pretty much stayaway from those kind of things.
You tried it?
Have you tried it, is it?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
like Peruvian or something like that.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
A Cevet yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
No, I want to try it no.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Well, the Cevet coffee is like $100 a pound.
So I'm just philosophicallyopposed to anything that was
pooped out and then made intocoffee, which again that's one
of my problems.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And you got to pay $100 for it.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
One of my problems with the USAT membership.
But we got a lot of things totalk about today.
But you know, we had aninteresting offline comment and
topic.
Coach Moreno and I, you know,we, um, we talk a lot and and we
get on a lot of differenttopics and subjects that are
important and crucial.
And this one I have to I haveto lark in it back.
(05:03):
I had met an athlete a lot ofyears ago and when I met him I
saw a lot of potential in thisathlete and when I brought him
to my mentor, um Harvey Berkey,harvey said he's going to be
good but he's not going to be aworld champion, because there's
something you can't teach thatto somebody, you can only have
it.
And that brought the questionthat to somebody, you can only
(05:26):
have it.
And that brought the questionare great athletes?
I'm not talking about goodathletes, I'm talking about
role-changing people thatredefine the sport.
Are those type of athletescreated or are they born?
Is it genetic or is it natureversus nurture?
What are your, what, what areyour guys' thoughts on this,
this kind of idea?
Speaker 4 (05:50):
If you had to ask me.
I think it's a mix of both.
I think you gotta have a littlesomething and you gotta be
given a lot of something, andthen if those two somethings
align, then you are.
You too can be special.
You too can be, like you said,game changing or history
changing or even moment changing.
I think we got to look at itthat way because you know, a lot
of times when we talk abouttop-level athletes, then until
now I think it comes down togeneration and then the moment
(06:12):
of what were those athletessurrounded by and what were the
difficulties or hardships or youknow, the big wins for those
guys.
So I think it's a little mix ofboth.
Me personally, I definitely wantto say minimum 50-50.
I think I was athletic when Istarted.
I think I could do some things,but Taekwondo wasn't my first
draw.
I played other sports.
Once I got into Taekwondo, Ijust kind of fell in love with
(06:33):
it and I think it took mefalling in love with the process
to kind of be able to maybe theworlds align.
I ended up with the rightcoaches at the right time.
I know I said it in one podcast, but I don't think I've ever
had a bad coach in my entirelife.
So for that I think it'sdefinitely 50-50, 60-40 coaching
.
But that's just me.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Well, I knew that you were yeah.
I knew that you had a career insynchronized swimming before
this, but I didn't know aboutthe other sports.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yeah, that was great.
That was great.
That was great.
They had to get off that teamin high school because I started
doing it.
Coach wanted me there early andlate and I couldn't perform
under the circumstances.
Tough to be in the water thatlong.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
But I heard you were quite a sight in that little
singlet, but nobody can see.
But Coach Moreno is falling offhis chair.
So anyway, Coach.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
On that note, I got to hold on.
No, no, you went there.
I'm going to go with thisclassic Warehouse 15 story.
So okay, you know everybodywears athletic clothes and you
know Miami is hot, oh my gosh.
You know most of the ladies,most of our female athletes,
(07:42):
wear like tights, and you knowlong tights like runner's tights
or tight shorts.
So one day, tj, one of my otherathletes, ruf, one of my, one
of my, maybe one of my mostphysically gifted athletes I've
ever had.
They're like, hey, how come thegirls get to wear tights and we
have to wear like sweatpants andshorts?
I'm like you wear them.
They're like, okay.
So one day tj and rufus show upin tights long black skin,
(08:10):
tight tights and I was like Iwas.
I thought, okay, whatever, Imean I don't really care.
But every mom in the buildingwas like this.
They watched that whole damnpractice, sweating, sweating boy
in that in the warehouse.
It was like okie dokie, no moretights for the guys, but tights
(08:33):
changed my life.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
If you, if you could never try the chain and tights,
please go get you a pair oftights.
Do it privately if you have to,but it's it's life changing.
You have no restrictions.
You can do whatever you want.
Also, you're more flexible, canlike, do this stuff.
You're good to go.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I had a student who was the vice president of
Danskin, which is the firstspandex company that made tights
and shorts for ballet dancers,and so he would bring me I would
wear under my uniform the shortversion of the tights you know
the dancers wear, and it kept tobe honest, it keeps your
(09:06):
muscles warm and everything elseBesides making you eye candy
for all the moms in your class,I guess.
But there's a lot of reasons towear tights, but I do like the
quote, which the quote is tightschanged my life.
I think that's going to be thisweek's clip for the internet.
That's the viral thing.
Tj says tights changed his life.
I think that's going to be thisweek's clip for the internet.
That's the viral thing.
Tj says tights changed his life.
(09:28):
I like it, I like it.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I know I remember wearing them back in the day.
I've under my dough bug pantsand I used to like them because,
you're right, it kind of keptyour muscles warm.
But I actually liked it becausemy uniform would just kind of
slide on it.
It wouldn't catch on my body.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
But also the sweat too, because there used to be a
lot of us training in miami andeverybody was sweaty and gross
and putting the tights on kindof kept some of the guys from
just making it completely messyall over the place.
So I think, like I said, Iagree, yeah, but it wasn't so
much, it wasn't so much itwasn't so much what you said, it
was the way you said it.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
You said tights changed my life.
So um, on this, back to thetopic anyway, which which has
nothing to do with tights sorry,I say that yeah, but uh the uh.
The truth is, you know, when youthink about great athletes and
you can take any sport messyronaldo for soccer, obviously,
(10:22):
and others in that sport, orTaekwondo, jungkook Young and
guys like this Was a JungkookYoung born or was he bred Like?
He had a legacy?
He went through and went to oneof the best universities and
one of the best elementaryschools and trained with the
best coaches and then wassubject to the best coaches.
Was that in his genetic makeup,I mean, or was it something?
(10:45):
Can you take an average athleteand make them a great athlete?
Can you teach them to haveperseverance, determination,
patience, whatever it is, andmake them a great athlete?
Or is there going to be a stepor a bridge too far once you get
them just to a certain level?
Because the amount ofdedication and pain that you
(11:08):
have to endure and what itreally takes, most people don't
understand.
So I mean, can you take I wantto think of somebody we know.
I'm going to try to think ofsomebody on the US team.
So there was a guy that used tocome to the training center,
stephen Shin, and he was a niceguy.
He was an average athlete andhe worked as hard as anybody
(11:28):
could work, he was never goingto be a world champion.
He wasn't going to be a USAteam member.
You can take other athletes alittle further up the pole.
I don't want to mention theirnames.
They made the US team but theywere never going to be a world
champion.
They were, at best, a bronzemedalist or not.
Talking about you, tj, but I'mtalking about guys that we all
(11:52):
know you finally got it rightbut the guys we all know that
they were never going to bepinnacle toppers, they were
never going to be apex,predators, predators.
So is that something that'sjust in you or is it something
that you, as a coach, can takean athlete with a decent skill
set, a decent body type and makethem great?
(12:13):
Can you make somebody great?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So let me go.
Let me let me chime in here fora second when?
Let me ask the question when dowe determine if somebody is
great?
At what point of their career?
When it's over, or later on,after they've proven?
So sometimes it's interestingwhen we say Muhammad Ali was
great, michael Jordan was great,kobe Bryant, tiger Woods,
(12:38):
Serena Williams, you name it.
We can see them going on thatpath, but we determine that
they're great probably towardsthe end or when they're finished
.
Matter of fact, a lot ofathletes get determined that
they're great when they weren'tgreat, but when they're done, we
like to throw a lot of shine onthem.
So I'm going to say, first andforemost people don't like to
(12:58):
hear it you have to have certainGod-given talents, whether it's
flexibility, whether it'sheight, whether it's genetics,
whether it's height, whetherit's speed, whether it's
strength.
I think you know, because if Ididn't believe I could teach and
develop an athlete, you know,to a certain level of success, I
(13:19):
wouldn't coach, I wouldn'tcoach.
I believe you could teachpeople discipline and patience
and dedication and commitment.
I believe you could teach, youknow, help them gain speed,
power, flexibility.
I think you could teach them anIQ of the game.
If I didn't, I wouldn't do whatI've been doing for the last 25
years.
But I think, at the end of theday, there is an X factor.
(13:41):
Let's be honest.
Some people innately have abite, some people innately have
an intellect, some peopleinnately have a patience, and I
think those people that havemaybe all of that, they are the
ones that become great.
Michael Jordan, my favoriteathlete of all time, for obvious
reasons.
But if he didn't have PhilJackson, maybe he would have
(14:04):
never been great.
Maybe he needed the rightteacher, the right coach, the
right system to make him great.
I know, we'll never know.
You could say.
I think that we could put himanywhere, probably, but that man
built a system for him toflourish and he became great.
I think there's a lot ofamazing athletes and a lot of
(14:27):
high level athletes that maybedidn't get that proper
mentorship.
I mean my grandma's, president.
I mentioned your son.
You told me oh, my son has a.
You know he's a natural athlete.
I said, is he, or is he becauseyou trained them to be?
Because you, you instilled inhim a work ethic.
You instilled in him anintellect of understanding the
game.
You, you instilled in him awork ethic.
You instilled in him anintellect of understanding the
(14:47):
game, you instilled in him howto become coachable, and for
that he's risen to where he's atright now.
And yes, he's long and lanky,yes, he's strong.
But is that nature or is thatnurture?
I mean, it's a really.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
It's a tough, tough question, but I think it's got
to be nurture I didn't cut youoff, but listening to that it's
more nurture than nature.
I mean, if I think about, likemy story when I was younger I
wouldn't say when I started Iwasn't the toughest kid in the
world, like I was in the roomsurviving over and over and over
and over again.
I think my coach at the time,coach Remarque, saw that I
needed to be in there and do alittle bit more.
(15:25):
He took steps along the waythat at some point kind of
changed me into a differentdirection.
I'm not saying I'm great.
What I'm saying is that I'vehad the ability to live in a
world that when I started Idon't think I was ahead of by
any shot.
So definitely I'm nurturingmore than nature for me.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
How about this?
Who's the best quarterback ever?
Is Tom Brady the bestquarterback ever?
He doesn't have natural ability.
Well, he's the most winning one.
I mean, people call him theGOAT right as a quarterback.
But think about that.
You've seen all the videos ofhow skinny he is and how he
wasn't first in startingquarterback at any level until
(16:04):
he got you know.
Obviously, when he won theSuper Bowl, then things changed
for him and he developed himself.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
You know, you look at a Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He has an X factor, but you look at his body he's
not muscular, he's not supertall, he's fast, he's smart, his
IQ is off the chart, right, hiscreativity is off the chart.
So I just think that you know,we can look at some athletes
that are lebron james, thedude's, whatever.
He is, six, six, 240, builtlike a run, I mean he's, he's,
(16:34):
that's a great body, that's agreat god-given body and he
worked at his craft.
I mean, I'm not a huge lebronfan but I give props, for you
know credit where credit is due.
Come on, man.
I mean, the guy is crazy, youknow so.
But I think at the end of theday, the special ones are
special.
Me and one of my, my uh coachesasked me actually I'm sorry, no
(16:55):
, it was, it was you, tj.
We have, you know, someathletes and you said do I fix
this person?
you, know, they, they do allthis stuff and I'm like, I mean,
my, my instinct is like, yes,make it correct, but there's
certain people you don't fix.
They're so unique and they'reso good.
I mean, I mean, I know everyonethinks I blow you up, but I'll
(17:16):
use you.
You, you didn't kick right, youdidn't kick the classic way,
you didn't move the classic way,but you were in and if anyone
tried to do it, they would have,they would have screwed you up.
I don't know what.
I don't know if you were, youwere hard-headed or you were
smart, but you didn't changebecause maybe you knew your body
(17:36):
and you said I can't do it likethat, it'll make me worse.
So yeah, so so for me like yeah, those unique.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
I know it's a good question, right?
So, like I me like, and youknow me long enough to know
basically I realized that Icouldn't ever do the traditional
round kick, side kick, whateverit was.
I had to do something thatworked for my body.
I needed to not hurt my body.
So if it was something that Iwas doing, it was going to and
it served me well.
Right, I haven't had to have myknees replaced, my hips
(18:07):
replaced, whatever.
But then you both said somethingwhich I want to kind of get
back to, which is and I'vetalked about this before weeds
and flowers.
There are athletes that areweeds and no matter what you do
to them, they're going to stayand succeed because they just
are weeds.
They don't need anything.
They're going to figure it out,they're going to work hard,
(18:28):
they're going to do whatever.
Flowers, like you said, arenurtured.
Tom Brady's a flower.
That guy wasn't a naturalathlete.
He got in with a great coachand, because he was in a great
coach, became a great athleteand became a better athlete,
like, got smart enough.
And I'll put Stephen Lopez inthat category.
Stephen Lopez, he was terribleat taekwondo.
(18:50):
He wasn't good at taekwondo Hisfirst few years he was just a
gifted specimen.
He was a tall, lanky, strongkid with a ridiculous amount of
tenacity and then he gotextremely good at Taekwondo.
He was a Tom Brady kind of guy.
But if you take a great andhere's the question If you took
(19:10):
a Patrice Remarque right and youput him in the right laboratory
, he becomes Patrice Remarque.
But Patrice Remarque probablybecomes Patrice Remarque
regardless, because he was aweed.
But if you take a Scott Moranty, for example big, tall guy,
(19:32):
little, slow, good athlete butwas he ever going to be an
Olympic gold medalist?
Could you have trained ScottMoranty with all the tools that
you're?
And here's where you both aresaying the same thing.
You're saying you can take anathlete and make them better and
(19:52):
get the most out of them, andso that's the job of a coach or
a coaching program.
You get more out of an athletethan they would have gotten out
of it by themselves.
But our conversation is abovethat.
It's not.
Can you make it better?
And you're both right, becauseif it weren't possible, then we
don't need coaches.
Just put a bunch of guys in aroom, the weeds will figure it
out and they'll rise to the topof the pile and they'll win, and
(20:15):
those are what I call deepwater swimmers.
And you guys hear me, becauseit's like current.
Now I'm dealing with my son, andyou're right, I nurtured my son
.
He's got a body like you, juan,and TJ.
He's a lanky and TJ he's alanky, muscular, strong kid, but
skinny like 160 and changealmost six foot, and so that kid
(20:40):
is a deep water swimmer.
You throw him in deeper water,he swims to the top of the pool,
no matter what the size of theocean.
So what I'm talking about aredeep water swimmers.
In other words, are those kindof kids genetically or are they
a combination of genetics andaccess, like you've pointed out?
Or if that's not the case, I'mstill talking about that guy
(21:04):
that we've been on with, theguys we've been on teams with
that never seemed to get to thetop of the pyramid and they had
all the talent and ability inthe world and they're in the
same room as you and I.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Well, how about this one?
I'll ask you this TJ Like, forexample how many athletes have
you seen that you're like, oh mygosh, tall, skinny, flexible,
fire, whatever and do thingscome too easy and for some
reason they don't have that,that, that grind that some other
kid goes, you know has?
(21:38):
I mean I've had, I don't know.
I feel like in Miami I've had aton of talented people and they
come and they go, they come andthey go, but I get that one
grinder that's pretty talentedbut works hard, and they're the
ones that last.
I mean, you know, what do you?
What do you think about that?
Do you think it comes too easy?
They, they, they leave too easy.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah, I mean, for me, like I said, I think if I have
to compare the two, I just Ithink it was always something to
fight for.
It wasn't easy, and maybethat's what you're saying it
wasn't easy.
There was always someone ahead.
I think I was in a specialgeneration.
I mean, all the guys in frontof us were world champions,
olympic medalists, pan Am Gamesgold medalists.
We were, like most of thenational team had big wins at
(22:16):
that point, and being a youngkid in that situation is like to
get out of the country was alot, to win the team trials was
a lot because you were beatingworld champions.
You were in there with Pan AmGames medalists.
So I would, I would definitelysay it's.
It was something to keepworking towards.
(22:37):
I don't know, like I don't, I'mnot even sure outside of, like
you, but like I'm not even surein our generation, the young gun
that just kind of ran throughthe table and like stay
consistent all the way through.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I mean, how about?
How about this, though you?
What's interesting?
We talk about nature versusnurture.
I mean it's on my mind rightnow because Wayne Gretzky's all
time goalie our goal scoringtitle is about to get passed by
Alex Ovechkin.
But it's funny because youthink about Wayne Gretzky.
You know unbelievable hockeyplayer.
(23:08):
You see that kid when he waslike four years old and skates
he was better than everybodyelse.
You see LeBron James with abasketball when he was in fourth
, third grade better thaneverybody else.
Serena Williams without skillbetter than everybody else.
So it's funny when we thinkabout the greats, greats, greats
(23:29):
.
I would say a higher percentageof them had something a little
special early on.
What I think, though, is amisconception in Taekwondo is I
don't believe there's anynatural fighters, because in
this generation of the world, atleast in the Western world,
you're taught the exact oppositeDon't push, don't hit, don't
(23:53):
bump, don't fight.
It's always don't, don't, don't, don't.
You're telling me now that youput somebody in there and they
just understand how to fight,like kids don't get in fights in
school anymore.
Kids don't get in fights on theplayground anymore, I mean, and
if they do, it's one we're notproud to say.
We grew up fighting five timesa week, so you almost had a
(24:16):
little.
Someone put you in karate.
You're like okay, I kind ofknow what I'm doing.
You know I, I was nine yearsold and they put me in there and
I, I punched.
I punched a senior belt in theface and I didn't know I wasn't
supposed to.
I had to do push-ups on thelinoleum.
But I like I can fight.
I don't even really needTaekwondo, I can fight.
I went on the Olympic team in1988, and I remember they kicked
(24:37):
the crap out of me in drills.
I didn't understand steps, Ididn't understand anything, but
we were on the track one day andwe started wrestling.
I'm like no fools, you guyswant to fight.
Right now.
None of you little guys canhandle me.
So I mean, I think that thisgeneration are probably not
fighters.
They're probably made fighters,are they a little more athletic
(24:59):
?
Maybe Do they understand IQ oflike I'm winning, I should save
this, I'm losing, I got to gofor it, maybe.
But natural fighters, those areboxers, right, they're not
taekwondo people.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
I think they got to love it in the beginning.
I mean, maybe that specialthing is the love for the game
early, because you know you getto a spot where you go to a
sport where taekwondo is not thebiggest obviously not the
biggest sport in America, oreven on the scale of bigger
sports in America, but like,maybe it's that kid that walks
in and goes man, for whateverreason I want to be here, you
know, for whatever reason I likebeing here and they kind of
take to it a little bit more toother kids who are a little bit
(25:36):
more in and out or not, as notas locked in or not as focused
on doing that as their sport,you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, I think there's definitely.
I mean there's a lot of goodcoaches out there.
What's that?
Go like Coach, coach here.
(28:20):
Okay, go ahead, coach.
That's true too, thank you,thank you, they have a chest.
They have a chest.
Oh, yeah, yeah yeah.
(29:10):
I did.
I did the other day I asked my,I asked a group of kids, people
.
I just cause we were working onpunching and I was like there's
something primitive aboutgetting punched.
It's like when someone slapsyou in the face, it's almost
like the worst thing that couldhappen to you, right?
And they're like take one ofyou, kick me.
I'm like, okay, you kick me,but if someone punches you, it
just it's, it's just like, justlike.
(29:31):
No, you can't punch me.
So anyway, we were talkingabout that.
I go, let me ask you guys, Iwent through every single one.
I go, don't lie to me, you'vebeen punched in the face.
Punch your face, punch me.
Two people.
Two people said they gotpunched in the face and I'm not
even sure that I believe them,but they said they got punched
in the face and so I waslaughing because I'm like, not
that you're proud of it, butlike you know, again, growing up
(29:53):
you get punched, right, you getin tussles and you do it.
But I thought it was funny thatout of this whole group, two
kids said that they've beenpunched before.
So I was kind of.
You know, it was funny to me.
But I'm thinking about, I neversay that I'm great.
I think I was above average andI think I had a certain amount
of success.
I never say that I'm great.
I think I was above average andI think I had a certain amount
(30:14):
of success.
I think, tj, you would probablysay the same thing.
You know very much surprised.
You could say you were greatbecause you achieved the
ultimate goal of Olympic goldmedal.
No, no, I'm going to say thisbecause I don't.
No, no, but I'm going to saythis because I don't believe,
just because you win, thatyou're great, because we've seen
that in football Is TrentDilfer a great quarterback.
He was a Super Bowl winningquarterback.
(30:34):
So, anyway, but what I wasgoing to say is it's interesting
.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
But what about?
Okay, go ahead but what abouthis combat?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I was going to say I'll get to that.
I was going to say but you knowwhat's interesting is like?
I would be willing to believethat all three of us right on
this panel, like people, applaudour accolades and they say how
great we were, but people don'trealize that we weren't probably
the greatest, that we had towork extremely hard.
(31:01):
And we did work extremely hard.
Like you said, tj, you had allthose people in front of you.
You were climbing the hill allthe time.
Herb, you came in a generationwhen you weren't supposed to win
and, matter of fact, there weresome people that didn't want
you to win and you just brokedown those barriers.
I was in between both of youguys.
(31:22):
I had people that I wasn'tsupposed to win and you're not
the right style.
It's interesting that we allhad to work extremely hard, but
yet people will say you're sucha natural, you're such a natural
fighter.
I, in my brain, I'm like man,okay, it's not worth the
conversation, but they don'trealize how much nurture we
actually had, whether it wassifu vizio, whether it was
master patrice, whether it wasjoseph selene, whether it was
(31:42):
myself.
You know me with my mentors,you know, but what did you say
about the fighters?
Speaker 4 (31:48):
I had to I'm gonna talk on that.
I had to learn to be a fighter,though like, like, if truth be
told, from job I had to learn tobe a fighter.
I wasn't, like I said, thoseearly days of me being a color
belt versus all the black beltsin the room.
I mean, they ran me around theroom rugged, like I had nothing
for them, to the point where itwas something happened and we
were fighting and fighting andthen there was a switch that
changed and I'm like wait aminute, I can do what they can
(32:09):
do.
I got to go try to do what theycan do because I'm tired of
getting hit.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Do you remember when it happened?
Speaker 4 (32:13):
I remember the exact moment when it happened.
Really.
Yeah, I remember the exactmoment when that happened.
We were at a gym on anArmy-based training on these gym
floors type thing.
I won't go into detail aboutthe story but yeah, that very
day I was basically getting mybutt whooped.
I was getting basically gettingmy butt whooped and I took one
shot and I kind of looked at theperson that I hit and I saw
(32:34):
their face change just slightlyand I'm like wait, he don't like
this just as much as I don'tlike this.
Let me go find out how much youdon't like this.
And that kind of changed mywhole little dynamic.
But yeah, I agree with you, Iwasn't.
I wasn't born going.
I'm going to go beat people up.
You know what I mean.
I knew you had to protectyourself as a kid, but I was
never like looking for thefights or like trying to be in
the middle of everything, likefor me it was more about how
(33:00):
about you, herc.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
That's so crazy that you can remember the moment.
Yeah, I mean yeah, thank you,thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
But did you win early ?
Did you win early?
Did you win early, like whenyou're a color belt?
Thank you, yeah.
(36:29):
Yeah that was different.
(36:49):
Like you know, 80s 80s and stufflike that.
It was different 80s, 90s.
I mean yeah, yeah yeah.
Yeah.
(37:10):
It's called discipline yeah,but you know, the unspoken code
(38:09):
is just was was kind of a, Imean it was kind of an etiquette
type thing.
It was kind of like you justknew, just like when kids were
young, they knew when they weresupposed to talk and when
parents were talking you werequiet, you didn't interrupt them
, you didn't that's how I wouldyou're like old school five
tenets of Tequando, those werelike the core of everything.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
You function off of those.
You function off of those.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah that's
(39:27):
100% learned because you can,even because if you grow up in
the streets, you learn who totalk to, who not to, because you
mess up once and you you get introuble.
And the same thing when you'reyoung and your parents give you
a spanking or whatever, youlearn that that's not no one's
innately goes.
I shouldn't talk because Imight interrupt.
No, you learned that.
That's not no one's innatelygoes.
I shouldn't talk because Imight interrupt.
No, you learned that.
But that was parenting, thatwas we.
(39:47):
We talked about leadershipright now, tj, with some of our
top level athletes.
You know they shouldn't betaught how to, not how to be
their person, because I thinkwe're all unique and we should
all be able to express.
But there's certain etiquettethat you should have.
There's certain, you know,decorum that you should have and
(40:09):
when people go, yeah, but it'sa you know what.
You're just living in this lala world right now that you
think everyone is entitled.
You know I should be able tosay whatever I want.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Yeah, but that's what I think has to be, and always
have to remain, special aboutour sport.
Is that right there?
Obviously, we want greatathletes.
Obviously we want Olympic goldmedals, obviously, obviously,
obviously.
But all these things you guysare talking about right now
matter more than not.
Like, you have to know how toact.
You're supposed to know how toact.
This stuff made me moredisciplined in my athletic
(40:42):
career so I could continue totry to excel and be in these
other rooms and be in theseother conversations.
All this stuff is that you haveto be martial.
It's martial arts, martial arts, martial arts.
In WCAP, they always saidsomething.
They said we're a specializedsports unit in the military, but
they would always say and Iused to always make fun of it,
sometimes every now and then butsoldiers first, because you had
(41:03):
to be who you were if thecountry needed you to go forth
and stand for them.
So it's soldiers first andathletes, and I think that goes
for us.
I know we all want to be a bigsport and everything like that,
but martial arts first and thenyou're a sports player, martial
artist, and then you chase therest of it.
But it all has to blendtogether and I think that I'm
going to say some of the greatertalk about the special people.
(41:25):
I think they had that.
I think that discipline wasthere.
I think that little bit offocus was there.
I don't know, but that's justme.
I think that has to remain andbe strong always.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I don't know one athlete no, no, I was going to
say I don't know one athlete inour sport or out of our sport
that doesn't have the.
Again, we can be brash, we canbe whatever, but doesn't, at the
core, have morals, ethics andvalues.
And then again, well, listen,we're all, you know, we all, we
(41:58):
all have our little faults andstuff like that.
You know, again, I keep talkingabout Michael.
Michael Jordan liked to smokecigars and play golf and gamble,
right, but at the end of theday, everybody knows he was
dedicated to being the bestathlete that he could be for his
team, for the city that herepresented, all those kinds of
things, and he's been able to goon and do other things.
(42:21):
When I look at the greats, theyall have those morals, ethics,
values.
They all have courtesy,integrity, perseverance,
self-control, abdominal spirit.
Not that we're not, again,without an ego or a fault.
I mean, maybe I could bearrogant one time, maybe my
spirit is down, but generallyspeaking it's going to be up and
(42:41):
I think that all the greatathletes have that learned trait
, that nurtured trait.
No-transcript, you're saying tobe honest with you, I, but I
(46:03):
think you can do some of thoseother things and still and still
some of the yeah, this, youknow the, the team camaraderie,
the, you know the discipline andstuff like that.
I mean I agree, I mean I, I'm alisten.
When I first opened peakperformance and my, I broke down
a lot of stereotypes.
I'm like let's be, let's be asport, let's wear comfortable
(46:27):
stuff when we compete.
Of course we have to get usedto all that stuff.
I didn't have any flags.
We didn't have a bow in.
We bowed to each other but wedidn't bow to a flag.
We didn't show any allegianceto anything like that.
At the end we got together, wedid a cheer, I said a couple of
words.
I made I made a conservativeeffort to break down some things
(46:49):
that I had to do.
Just because there was noscientific thing about it, it
was just just because why?
Because I said, okay, so Ibroke down, but I've had to come
back a little bit because afterall this generations of people
like you guys that understoodthis stuff and said you know
what, I know how to act, I knowhow to be respectful, I know how
(47:10):
to conduct myself properly infront of people, all of a sudden
I had a generation of justsports people.
Tj, you said we got to keep it.
They might as well have been asoccer player, football player,
basketball player.
Hey, what's up?
Sit down in the corner.
And I'm like I almost blew agasket when I kind of figured
this all out and I'm like, well,now that's my fault, because
(47:31):
the pendulum has swung too far.
Now we have to wear a certainshirt.
Now we have to act.
Now you come to my gym.
You walked into my gym rightnow.
Every single person would comeup to you and shake your hand or
give you a dab.
I know that's not the mostformal greeting, but every
single kid will come up and sayhello to you.
I mean, it was about me goingback and teaching this group
(47:56):
because you said again too, tj,when you were coming up, you
were chasing people.
So you learn how to act andlearn how to train without
people telling you you werenurtured when, when that that
line goes away.
Now we have what we have in thenational team in this country.
You look at, you go to theworld championships.
You got high profile athleteswearing jeans and polos because
(48:21):
they don't want to wear team usastuff.
So I mean, I think there's,there's got to be a little.
Speaker 4 (48:26):
How about this?
How about how about this forculture?
Like so I had to get used to, Ihad to get used to the athletes
around calling the, the ceo,the coaches, the high performer,
like may paul steve gareth Iwas.
I was like stupid, shocked.
I'm just like there's no way.
And like then when I had tolike slowly try to figure out
(48:48):
how to tell these kids like youdon't call me TJ, like there's
no way you call me TJ in anysituation.
There's no conversation whereyou approach me TJ and I'm cool.
You call me coach, tj, you cancall me coach.
You can like wait, tj, whateveryou want, but you're not going
to talk to me and call me by myfirst name, and I heard this is
normal.
We're talking about the CEO andthey're going.
Oh yeah, I got to go talk toSteve and I'm like who?
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Yeah, you know, it's funny because even in listen
kids, look I'm not old as yougrandma spreads, but I'm going
to be 54.
Most of the people that walkinto my school with their kids,
you know their thirties andforties and I'm like hey, mrs,
mrs Johnson, hey, mrs, I don'tcall anybody by their first name
, just as a as a respect to aparent and for certainly someone
(49:34):
as older than me, I don't say Imean for purposes that we're
here right now.
I never, I I never call, saywhat's up.
Herb, it's Kyung, it's my olderbrother.
It's just crazy to me that kids, my daughter comes over and I'm
like you never call Deanna byDeanna.
(49:55):
Her name is Miss Deanna or MissSuarez.
You say Miss before.
If Isabella wants to call, no,no, no, it doesn't matter.
You 1,000% is Mr or Mrs, that'sit, there's no question.
But that's again being taughtwhen people want to be all again
.
This is that new.
I don't want to use the wordwoke, but that woke generation
of people.
(50:15):
There's a certain amount ofetiquette.
That should be, that shouldstay.
It has to Etiquette.
(51:31):
It's just normal etiquette.
Thank you, it's not okay.
That's not okay.
That's not okay.
Young, that's not okay.
Speaker 4 (51:34):
No, it's not okay like, why would you even, why
would that even be something yousay?
Like, why would that as anorganization, why would you ever
say the opposite of?
Like our country got olympicgold medals this year, this year
.
How does it support your storyto shut and cut all that down?
(51:55):
That's the problem.
Like that's so stupid stupid,stupid, thank you that's a weird
(53:12):
little stigma too.
I always felt like that too.
If I showed up to a tournamentback and you had to bring your
own helmets and everybody wantedthose red and blue dip adidas
helmets you know I'm talkingabout the shiny ones like I feel
like you can't go to thattournament and lose.
I know that that equipment wasreserved for winners, you know
what I mean.
Like you had that all.
You probably were out therescraping people.
If not, you had a white macholike everybody else.
(53:32):
So you know it's so funny, awhite macho.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Well listen, I know we've been all over the place,
but I mean for me, like I mean,I would just, I mean on this
whole thing about the athletesand we should talk about
coaching too at some pointdifferent levels, but I mean I
would say that I'm going to goout there and say that to be
great, you have to be gifted,whether it's genetically or you
(53:57):
have to be gifted, but you, your, your, your gift has to, has to
be nurtured.
That's where I'm, that's whereI'm going to kind of sum up my
thing.
Like you, you have, if you'regoing to be literally
groundbreaking cream of the crop, you have to have some
God-given body, god-given talent, something that all of us
mortals don't have.
(54:18):
But in order to get there, youhad to be, you had to be
nurtured, you had to havediscipline and dedication and
desire and grit and all thethings that we all know make a
great athlete.
Because if not, you would havebeen like 98% of the other
population.
Where you see them in highschool.
You're like man tall, fast,strong, and they dropped out of
(54:39):
college or they quit the team orthey're working at some odd job
, correct?
(55:25):
I'll take one more person.
You have somebody TJ, I havesomebody you, I have somebody
you guys go.
I'm listening, yeah, I mean Ithere's.
I won't say anybody modern,because I don't want to go there
yet, because I don't think Icould judge them until they
finish.
But like I got two, two and youknow both of them were very
gifted in my era.
I think one was clay barber andone was chun li.
Both of them were really giftedin my era.
I think One was Clay Barber andone was Tian Li.
Now both of them woninternational medals, but I
(55:49):
still don't believe, based onwhat I saw, the physicality,
what they could do speed, power,explosion, dynamic.
I know people talk about peoplenowadays, but these guys were.
They're the reason I leftChicago and went to the Olympic
Trainer Center, those two people, because I'm like they're so
good, they're so strong.
(56:09):
But something was off and I'mgoing to say it was partly their
fault but partly the nurturingpart.
I don't think they had theright mentors for them that
could have gotten more out ofthem.
Clay Barber was a silver medalat the World Championships once,
but there was another five, six, seven years that he probably,
in my opinion, could have didmore.
I mean, he's a good friend ofmine.
(56:31):
We talk on the phone often.
I have the utmost respect forhim.
He has a great career now.
I personally think that hecould have been more.
I fought at the Olympic trialsfinals, but he was a teammate of
mine before.
I mean he was incrediblytalented.
I mean the guy could doeverything, but I think he
(56:53):
didn't have the right mentor.
He butted heads with them Again.
I can blame a little bit ofboth, but I don't think they got
the most out of their God-givenability and they worked hard,
but there was something missingand I think it was the nurturing
part from the coaches.
That's just my point.
Speaker 4 (57:12):
I'm going to final thought.
I think it's a lot of nurture.
I mean, when we start thinkingback and thinking about all the
stories we told, it's a lot ofnurture.
I think the coaches either theathlete was special or the coach
was special, or both arespecial somehow.
But I think the nurture fromthe coaches and the guidance you
get early kind of dictates thetrajectory you go on.
And I think that's in everysport and I know we try to give
(57:33):
credit as much credit as we canto the athletes, because it's
them out there that are sweating, kicking, grinding.
But also for me and I thinkabout my career was a lot of
nurture and, like I said fromagain, I don't think I've had a
bad coach the entire time I'vedone this sport, so it's got to
be a lot of that for me.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
So nurture it is.
Yeah, that's a good one.
Look at Mr T.
He wasn't nurtured properly.
He should have been great.
He should have been great, heshould have been great he was,
the man alright Peace, peace.
Speaker 3 (59:26):
Oh man, you messed up .
Now I gotta stop.
Would you cut up my thing, man?
What are you doing?
to the warehouse 15 and we are back again, and I am
the Grandmaster of Disaster, asusual, joined by my colleagues,
cohorts and contemporaries.
How are you doing today, CoachMoreno?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm doing great.
First of all, I'm digging thatshirt right there, Coach TJ, you
like that?
I just saw the picture and I'mlike that's the joint, right
there I'm good guys, I'm excited, I'm going.
That's the joint right there.
I'm good guys.
I'm excited.
I'm going to Chicago tomorrowfor one of my fast camps.
I have one this month and thenI have one next month and
actually you're part of the Neckof the Woods Coach Grandmaster
Perez in Northern California.
(00:57):
So yeah, just got a freshhaircut I know you're looking
for those century rip cords andI'm going to send my boys
century.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
They'll get them for the next camp.
I didn't realize it was fortomorrow, my bad.
So we have the beautifulcentury rip cords, which were
designed many years ago.
Coach Moreno and I used them atmy first camp for another
company and then I brought themto century and within a day they
had a prototype for us and theycame up with a black, a red and
a green, and so they're stillthe state of the art.
(01:29):
Um, how you doing today, coach.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
TJ, wake up.
I'm telling, I'm telling yousecond my name.
I'm telling, I'm telling, I'mtelling your award.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I mean, I know it's hard man.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I got my guitars still in the right order up
there for you yeah, and I'mchilling, having a good day,
just, you know, excited toalways sit down and talk to you
guys.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I'm sure we got something good for today, so I'm
just just before we start,because I know last time you
gave out a shout out to yourpeople that you kind of worked
with a little bit.
So I gotta give a shout outtoday.
And I don't have my producthere, it's at my gym I feel bad.
But at Top TKD, well, they havea Taekwondo shoe out.
I purchased a couple of pairs alittle while ago.
(02:14):
Had some issues with the size.
They hooked me up.
So a shout out to Top TKD.
I like the shoes I'm going to.
When I get them next week I'llmake sure I bring them in.
I'll display them.
But pretty good so far I likethem I got this funky blue color
.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Sifu Harinda Singh, thank you again.
I am wearing my second Budojacket with the beautiful blue
interior, the red one's on thechair.
I wanted to break out the blue,but I'll have a phone call made
for you guys.
Just send me some sizes andwe'll see if we can get you.
But Budo Brothers again, thankyou, thank you, thank you.
I know you put out excellenttraining videos.
(02:53):
You work with Sifu HarindaSingh and others and some great
martial artists.
I know you started, but thisjacket, I mean Moreno, you would
look so good in this jacket Ican't even tell you what's what?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
No, no, no, look you guys look good today.
But no offense, but this is my.
I'm going to give a shout-outto my boy, peter Bardatos.
I got my Peter Bardatos.
I got my white v-neck and jeanson.
This is like an undershirtright here, boy.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
Oh, that's classic.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
That's classic.
I got to find a sponsor now Igot to plug somebody, hey, if
y'all need to plug.
Let me know I got time nextweek.
You better find a clock.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
You got to be able to find a clock sponsor, an alarm
sponsor.
You know he's a little late onour calls.
We lost Moreno, left thebuilding.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Did immigration show up?
What happened, Flow man?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
what happened?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
What's flow?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
What's flow?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Come on, man, Help your thinking and stuff like
this man.
You ever seen this?
Speaker 1 (03:55):
You want to know something.
Somebody did tell me about it.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Somebody told me about it.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, they keep trying to get me to go back to
coffee.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
They want me to change my coffee up for
mushrooms and I'm like no man,I'm going to take them.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Have you tried mushroom coffee?
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I have not.
But I also have not tried thecoffee where it's eaten by an
animal and then they poop it outand you take those beans and
make coffee.
So yeah, I pretty much stayaway from those kind of things.
You tried it?
Have you tried it, is it?
Speaker 4 (04:23):
like Peruvian or something like that.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
A Cevet yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
No, I want to try it no.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Well, the Cevet coffee is like $100 a pound.
So I'm just philosophicallyopposed to anything that was
pooped out and then made intocoffee, which again that's one
of my problems.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And you got to pay $100 for it.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
One of my problems with the USAT membership.
But we got a lot of things totalk about today.
But you know, we had aninteresting offline comment and
topic.
Coach Moreno and I, you know,we, um, we talk a lot and and we
get on a lot of differenttopics and subjects that are
important and crucial.
And this one I have to I haveto lark in it back.
(05:03):
I had met an athlete a lot ofyears ago and when I met him I
saw a lot of potential in thisathlete and when I brought him
to my mentor, um Harvey Berkey,harvey said he's going to be
good but he's not going to be aworld champion, because there's
something you can't teach thatto somebody, you can only have
it.
And that brought the questionthat to somebody, you can only
(05:26):
have it.
And that brought the questionare great athletes?
I'm not talking about goodathletes, I'm talking about
role-changing people thatredefine the sport.
Are those type of athletescreated or are they born?
Is it genetic or is it natureversus nurture?
What are your, what, what areyour guys' thoughts on this,
this kind of idea?
Speaker 4 (05:50):
If you had to ask me.
I think it's a mix of both.
I think you gotta have a littlesomething and you gotta be
given a lot of something, andthen if those two somethings
align, then you are.
You too can be special.
You too can be, like you said,game changing or history
changing or even moment changing.
I think we got to look at itthat way because you know, a lot
of times when we talk abouttop-level athletes, then until
now I think it comes down togeneration and then the moment
(06:12):
of what were those athletessurrounded by and what were the
difficulties or hardships or youknow, the big wins for those
guys.
So I think it's a little mix ofboth.
Me personally, I definitely wantto say minimum 50-50.
I think I was athletic when Istarted.
I think I could do some things,but Taekwondo wasn't my first
draw.
I played other sports.
Once I got into Taekwondo, Ijust kind of fell in love with
(06:33):
it and I think it took mefalling in love with the process
to kind of be able to maybe theworlds align.
I ended up with the rightcoaches at the right time.
I know I said it in one podcast, but I don't think I've ever
had a bad coach in my entirelife.
So for that I think it'sdefinitely 50-50, 60-40 coaching
.
But that's just me.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Well, I knew that you were yeah.
I knew that you had a career insynchronized swimming before
this, but I didn't know aboutthe other sports.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Yeah, that was great.
That was great.
That was great.
They had to get off that teamin high school because I started
doing it.
Coach wanted me there early andlate and I couldn't perform
under the circumstances.
Tough to be in the water thatlong.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
But I heard you were quite a sight in that little
singlet, but nobody can see.
But Coach Moreno is falling offhis chair.
So anyway, Coach.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
On that note, I got to hold on.
No, no, you went there.
I'm going to go with thisclassic Warehouse 15 story.
So okay, you know everybodywears athletic clothes and you
know Miami is hot, oh my gosh.
You know most of the ladies,most of our female athletes,
(07:42):
wear like tights, and you knowlong tights like runner's tights
or tight shorts.
So one day, tj, one of my otherathletes, ruf, one of my, one
of my, maybe one of my mostphysically gifted athletes I've
ever had.
They're like, hey, how come thegirls get to wear tights and we
have to wear like sweatpants andshorts?
I'm like you wear them.
They're like, okay.
So one day tj and rufus show upin tights long black skin,
(08:10):
tight tights and I was like Iwas.
I thought, okay, whatever, Imean I don't really care.
But every mom in the buildingwas like this.
They watched that whole damnpractice, sweating, sweating boy
in that in the warehouse.
It was like okie dokie, no moretights for the guys, but tights
(08:33):
changed my life.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
If you, if you could never try the chain and tights,
please go get you a pair oftights.
Do it privately if you have to,but it's it's life changing.
You have no restrictions.
You can do whatever you want.
Also, you're more flexible, canlike, do this stuff.
You're good to go.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I had a student who was the vice president of
Danskin, which is the firstspandex company that made tights
and shorts for ballet dancers,and so he would bring me I would
wear under my uniform the shortversion of the tights you know
the dancers wear, and it kept tobe honest, it keeps your
(09:06):
muscles warm and everything elseBesides making you eye candy
for all the moms in your class,I guess.
But there's a lot of reasons towear tights, but I do like the
quote, which the quote is tightschanged my life.
I think that's going to be thisweek's clip for the internet.
That's the viral thing.
Tj says tights changed his life.
I think that's going to be thisweek's clip for the internet.
That's the viral thing.
Tj says tights changed his life.
(09:28):
I like it, I like it.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I know I remember wearing them back in the day.
I've under my dough bug pantsand I used to like them because,
you're right, it kind of keptyour muscles warm.
But I actually liked it becausemy uniform would just kind of
slide on it.
It wouldn't catch on my body.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (09:45):
But also the sweat too, because there used to be a
lot of us training in miami andeverybody was sweaty and gross
and putting the tights on kindof kept some of the guys from
just making it completely messyall over the place.
So I think, like I said, Iagree, yeah, but it wasn't so
much, it wasn't so much itwasn't so much what you said, it
was the way you said it.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
You said tights changed my life.
So um, on this, back to thetopic anyway, which which has
nothing to do with tights sorry,I say that yeah, but uh the uh.
The truth is, you know, when youthink about great athletes and
you can take any sport messyronaldo for soccer, obviously,
(10:22):
and others in that sport, orTaekwondo, jungkook Young and
guys like this Was a JungkookYoung born or was he bred Like?
He had a legacy?
He went through and went to oneof the best universities and
one of the best elementaryschools and trained with the
best coaches and then wassubject to the best coaches.
Was that in his genetic makeup,I mean, or was it something?
(10:45):
Can you take an average athleteand make them a great athlete?
Can you teach them to haveperseverance, determination,
patience, whatever it is, andmake them a great athlete?
Or is there going to be a stepor a bridge too far once you get
them just to a certain level?
Because the amount ofdedication and pain that you
(11:08):
have to endure and what itreally takes, most people don't
understand.
So I mean, can you take I wantto think of somebody we know.
I'm going to try to think ofsomebody on the US team.
So there was a guy that used tocome to the training center,
stephen Shin, and he was a niceguy.
He was an average athlete andhe worked as hard as anybody
(11:28):
could work, he was never goingto be a world champion.
He wasn't going to be a USAteam member.
You can take other athletes alittle further up the pole.
I don't want to mention theirnames.
They made the US team but theywere never going to be a world
champion.
They were, at best, a bronzemedalist or not.
Talking about you, tj, but I'mtalking about guys that we all
(11:52):
know you finally got it rightbut the guys we all know that
they were never going to bepinnacle toppers, they were
never going to be apex,predators, predators.
So is that something that'sjust in you or is it something
that you, as a coach, can takean athlete with a decent skill
set, a decent body type and makethem great?
(12:13):
Can you make somebody great?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So let me go.
Let me let me chime in here fora second when?
Let me ask the question when dowe determine if somebody is
great?
At what point of their career?
When it's over, or later on,after they've proven?
So sometimes it's interestingwhen we say Muhammad Ali was
great, michael Jordan was great,kobe Bryant, tiger Woods,
(12:38):
Serena Williams, you name it.
We can see them going on thatpath, but we determine that
they're great probably towardsthe end or when they're finished
.
Matter of fact, a lot ofathletes get determined that
they're great when they weren'tgreat, but when they're done, we
like to throw a lot of shine onthem.
So I'm going to say, first andforemost people don't like to
(12:58):
hear it you have to have certainGod-given talents, whether it's
flexibility, whether it'sheight, whether it's genetics,
whether it's height, whetherit's speed, whether it's
strength.
I think you know, because if Ididn't believe I could teach and
develop an athlete, you know,to a certain level of success, I
(13:19):
wouldn't coach, I wouldn'tcoach.
I believe you could teachpeople discipline and patience
and dedication and commitment.
I believe you could teach, youknow, help them gain speed,
power, flexibility.
I think you could teach them anIQ of the game.
If I didn't, I wouldn't do whatI've been doing for the last 25
years.
But I think, at the end of theday, there is an X factor.
(13:41):
Let's be honest.
Some people innately have abite, some people innately have
an intellect, some peopleinnately have a patience, and I
think those people that havemaybe all of that, they are the
ones that become great.
Michael Jordan, my favoriteathlete of all time, for obvious
reasons.
But if he didn't have PhilJackson, maybe he would have
(14:04):
never been great.
Maybe he needed the rightteacher, the right coach, the
right system to make him great.
I know, we'll never know.
You could say.
I think that we could put himanywhere, probably, but that man
built a system for him toflourish and he became great.
I think there's a lot ofamazing athletes and a lot of
(14:27):
high level athletes that maybedidn't get that proper
mentorship.
I mean my grandma's, president.
I mentioned your son.
You told me oh, my son has a.
You know he's a natural athlete.
I said, is he, or is he becauseyou trained them to be?
Because you, you instilled inhim a work ethic.
You instilled in him anintellect of understanding the
game.
You, you instilled in him awork ethic.
You instilled in him anintellect of understanding the
(14:47):
game, you instilled in him howto become coachable, and for
that he's risen to where he's atright now.
And yes, he's long and lanky,yes, he's strong.
But is that nature or is thatnurture?
I mean, it's a really.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
It's a tough, tough question, but I think it's got
to be nurture I didn't cut youoff, but listening to that it's
more nurture than nature.
I mean, if I think about, likemy story when I was younger I
wouldn't say when I started Iwasn't the toughest kid in the
world, like I was in the roomsurviving over and over and over
and over again.
I think my coach at the time,coach Remarque, saw that I
needed to be in there and do alittle bit more.
(15:25):
He took steps along the waythat at some point kind of
changed me into a differentdirection.
I'm not saying I'm great.
What I'm saying is that I'vehad the ability to live in a
world that when I started Idon't think I was ahead of by
any shot.
So definitely I'm nurturingmore than nature for me.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
How about this?
Who's the best quarterback ever?
Is Tom Brady the bestquarterback ever?
He doesn't have natural ability.
Well, he's the most winning one.
I mean, people call him theGOAT right as a quarterback.
But think about that.
You've seen all the videos ofhow skinny he is and how he
wasn't first in startingquarterback at any level until
(16:04):
he got you know.
Obviously, when he won theSuper Bowl, then things changed
for him and he developed himself.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
You know, you look at a Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
He has an X factor, but you look at his body he's
not muscular, he's not supertall, he's fast, he's smart, his
IQ is off the chart, right, hiscreativity is off the chart.
So I just think that you know,we can look at some athletes
that are lebron james, thedude's, whatever.
He is, six, six, 240, builtlike a run, I mean he's, he's,
(16:34):
that's a great body, that's agreat god-given body and he
worked at his craft.
I mean, I'm not a huge lebronfan but I give props, for you
know credit where credit is due.
Come on, man.
I mean, the guy is crazy, youknow so.
But I think at the end of theday, the special ones are
special.
Me and one of my, my uh coachesasked me actually I'm sorry, no
(16:55):
, it was, it was you, tj.
We have, you know, someathletes and you said do I fix
this person?
you, know, they, they do allthis stuff and I'm like, I mean,
my, my instinct is like, yes,make it correct, but there's
certain people you don't fix.
They're so unique and they'reso good.
I mean, I mean, I know everyonethinks I blow you up, but I'll
(17:16):
use you.
You, you didn't kick right, youdidn't kick the classic way,
you didn't move the classic way,but you were in and if anyone
tried to do it, they would have,they would have screwed you up.
I don't know what.
I don't know if you were, youwere hard-headed or you were
smart, but you didn't changebecause maybe you knew your body
(17:36):
and you said I can't do it likethat, it'll make me worse.
So yeah, so so for me like yeah, those unique.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
I know it's a good question, right?
So, like I me like, and youknow me long enough to know
basically I realized that Icouldn't ever do the traditional
round kick, side kick, whateverit was.
I had to do something thatworked for my body.
I needed to not hurt my body.
So if it was something that Iwas doing, it was going to and
it served me well.
Right, I haven't had to have myknees replaced, my hips
(18:07):
replaced, whatever.
But then you both said somethingwhich I want to kind of get
back to, which is and I'vetalked about this before weeds
and flowers.
There are athletes that areweeds and no matter what you do
to them, they're going to stayand succeed because they just
are weeds.
They don't need anything.
They're going to figure it out,they're going to work hard,
(18:28):
they're going to do whatever.
Flowers, like you said, arenurtured.
Tom Brady's a flower.
That guy wasn't a naturalathlete.
He got in with a great coachand, because he was in a great
coach, became a great athleteand became a better athlete,
like, got smart enough.
And I'll put Stephen Lopez inthat category.
Stephen Lopez, he was terribleat taekwondo.
(18:50):
He wasn't good at taekwondo Hisfirst few years he was just a
gifted specimen.
He was a tall, lanky, strongkid with a ridiculous amount of
tenacity and then he gotextremely good at Taekwondo.
He was a Tom Brady kind of guy.
But if you take a great andhere's the question If you took
(19:10):
a Patrice Remarque right and youput him in the right laboratory
, he becomes Patrice Remarque.
But Patrice Remarque probablybecomes Patrice Remarque
regardless, because he was aweed.
But if you take a Scott Moranty, for example big, tall guy,
(19:32):
little, slow, good athlete butwas he ever going to be an
Olympic gold medalist?
Could you have trained ScottMoranty with all the tools that
you're?
And here's where you both aresaying the same thing.
You're saying you can take anathlete and make them better and
(19:52):
get the most out of them, andso that's the job of a coach or
a coaching program.
You get more out of an athletethan they would have gotten out
of it by themselves.
But our conversation is abovethat.
It's not.
Can you make it better?
And you're both right, becauseif it weren't possible, then we
don't need coaches.
Just put a bunch of guys in aroom, the weeds will figure it
out and they'll rise to the topof the pile and they'll win, and
(20:15):
those are what I call deepwater swimmers.
And you guys hear me, becauseit's like current.
Now I'm dealing with my son, andyou're right, I nurtured my son
.
He's got a body like you, juan,and TJ.
He's a lanky and TJ he's alanky, muscular, strong kid, but
skinny like 160 and changealmost six foot, and so that kid
(20:40):
is a deep water swimmer.
You throw him in deeper water,he swims to the top of the pool,
no matter what the size of theocean.
So what I'm talking about aredeep water swimmers.
In other words, are those kindof kids genetically or are they
a combination of genetics andaccess, like you've pointed out?
Or if that's not the case, I'mstill talking about that guy
(21:04):
that we've been on with, theguys we've been on teams with
that never seemed to get to thetop of the pyramid and they had
all the talent and ability inthe world and they're in the
same room as you and I.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Well, how about this one?
I'll ask you this TJ Like, forexample how many athletes have
you seen that you're like, oh mygosh, tall, skinny, flexible,
fire, whatever and do thingscome too easy and for some
reason they don't have that,that, that grind that some other
kid goes, you know has?
(21:38):
I mean I've had, I don't know.
I feel like in Miami I've had aton of talented people and they
come and they go, they come andthey go, but I get that one
grinder that's pretty talentedbut works hard, and they're the
ones that last.
I mean, you know, what do you?
What do you think about that?
Do you think it comes too easy?
They, they, they leave too easy.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yeah, I mean, for me, like I said, I think if I have
to compare the two, I just Ithink it was always something to
fight for.
It wasn't easy, and maybethat's what you're saying it
wasn't easy.
There was always someone ahead.
I think I was in a specialgeneration.
I mean, all the guys in frontof us were world champions,
olympic medalists, pan Am Gamesgold medalists.
We were, like most of thenational team had big wins at
(22:16):
that point, and being a youngkid in that situation is like to
get out of the country was alot, to win the team trials was
a lot because you were beatingworld champions.
You were in there with Pan AmGames medalists.
So I would, I would definitelysay it's.
It was something to keepworking towards.
(22:37):
I don't know, like I don't, I'mnot even sure outside of, like
you, but like I'm not even surein our generation, the young gun
that just kind of ran throughthe table and like stay
consistent all the way through.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I mean, how about?
How about this, though you?
What's interesting?
We talk about nature versusnurture.
I mean it's on my mind rightnow because Wayne Gretzky's all
time goalie our goal scoringtitle is about to get passed by
Alex Ovechkin.
But it's funny because youthink about Wayne Gretzky.
You know unbelievable hockeyplayer.
(23:08):
You see that kid when he waslike four years old and skates
he was better than everybodyelse.
You see LeBron James with abasketball when he was in fourth
, third grade better thaneverybody else.
Serena Williams without skillbetter than everybody else.
So it's funny when we thinkabout the greats, greats, greats
(23:29):
.
I would say a higher percentageof them had something a little
special early on.
What I think, though, is amisconception in Taekwondo is I
don't believe there's anynatural fighters, because in
this generation of the world, atleast in the Western world,
you're taught the exact oppositeDon't push, don't hit, don't
(23:53):
bump, don't fight.
It's always don't, don't, don't, don't.
You're telling me now that youput somebody in there and they
just understand how to fight,like kids don't get in fights in
school anymore.
Kids don't get in fights on theplayground anymore, I mean, and
if they do, it's one we're notproud to say.
We grew up fighting five timesa week, so you almost had a
(24:16):
little.
Someone put you in karate.
You're like okay, I kind ofknow what I'm doing.
You know I, I was nine yearsold and they put me in there and
I, I punched.
I punched a senior belt in theface and I didn't know I wasn't
supposed to.
I had to do push-ups on thelinoleum.
But I like I can fight.
I don't even really needTaekwondo, I can fight.
I went on the Olympic team in1988, and I remember they kicked
(24:37):
the crap out of me in drills.
I didn't understand steps, Ididn't understand anything, but
we were on the track one day andwe started wrestling.
I'm like no fools, you guyswant to fight.
Right now.
None of you little guys canhandle me.
So I mean, I think that thisgeneration are probably not
fighters.
They're probably made fighters,are they a little more athletic
(24:59):
?
Maybe Do they understand IQ oflike I'm winning, I should save
this, I'm losing, I got to gofor it, maybe.
But natural fighters, those areboxers, right, they're not
taekwondo people.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
I think they got to love it in the beginning.
I mean, maybe that specialthing is the love for the game
early, because you know you getto a spot where you go to a
sport where taekwondo is not thebiggest obviously not the
biggest sport in America, oreven on the scale of bigger
sports in America, but like,maybe it's that kid that walks
in and goes man, for whateverreason I want to be here, you
know, for whatever reason I likebeing here and they kind of
take to it a little bit more toother kids who are a little bit
(25:36):
more in and out or not, as notas locked in or not as focused
on doing that as their sport,you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, I think there's definitely.
I mean there's a lot of goodcoaches out there.
What's that?
Go like Coach, coach here.
(28:20):
Okay, go ahead, coach.
That's true too, thank you,thank you, they have a chest.
They have a chest.
Oh, yeah, yeah yeah.
(29:10):
I did.
I did the other day I asked my,I asked a group of kids, people
.
I just cause we were working onpunching and I was like there's
something primitive aboutgetting punched.
It's like when someone slapsyou in the face, it's almost
like the worst thing that couldhappen to you, right?
And they're like take one ofyou, kick me.
I'm like, okay, you kick me,but if someone punches you, it
just it's, it's just like, justlike.
(29:31):
No, you can't punch me.
So anyway, we were talkingabout that.
I go, let me ask you guys, Iwent through every single one.
I go, don't lie to me, you'vebeen punched in the face.
Punch your face, punch me.
Two people.
Two people said they gotpunched in the face and I'm not
even sure that I believe them,but they said they got punched
in the face and so I waslaughing because I'm like, not
that you're proud of it, butlike you know, again, growing up
(29:53):
you get punched, right, you getin tussles and you do it.
But I thought it was funny thatout of this whole group, two
kids said that they've beenpunched before.
So I was kind of.
You know, it was funny to me.
But I'm thinking about, I neversay that I'm great.
I think I was above average andI think I had a certain amount
of success.
I never say that I'm great.
I think I was above average andI think I had a certain amount
(30:14):
of success.
I think, tj, you would probablysay the same thing.
You know very much surprised.
You could say you were greatbecause you achieved the
ultimate goal of Olympic goldmedal.
No, no, I'm going to say thisbecause I don't.
No, no, but I'm going to saythis because I don't believe,
just because you win, thatyou're great, because we've seen
that in football Is TrentDilfer a great quarterback.
He was a Super Bowl winningquarterback.
(30:34):
So, anyway, but what I wasgoing to say is it's interesting
.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
But what about?
Okay, go ahead but what abouthis combat?
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I was going to say I'll get to that.
I was going to say but you knowwhat's interesting is like?
I would be willing to believethat all three of us right on
this panel, like people, applaudour accolades and they say how
great we were, but people don'trealize that we weren't probably
the greatest, that we had towork extremely hard.
(31:01):
And we did work extremely hard.
Like you said, tj, you had allthose people in front of you.
You were climbing the hill allthe time.
Herb, you came in a generationwhen you weren't supposed to win
and, matter of fact, there weresome people that didn't want
you to win and you just brokedown those barriers.
I was in between both of youguys.
(31:22):
I had people that I wasn'tsupposed to win and you're not
the right style.
It's interesting that we allhad to work extremely hard, but
yet people will say you're sucha natural, you're such a natural
fighter.
I, in my brain, I'm like man,okay, it's not worth the
conversation, but they don'trealize how much nurture we
actually had, whether it wassifu vizio, whether it was
master patrice, whether it wasjoseph selene, whether it was
(31:42):
myself.
You know me with my mentors,you know, but what did you say
about the fighters?
Speaker 4 (31:48):
I had to I'm gonna talk on that.
I had to learn to be a fighter,though like, like, if truth be
told, from job I had to learn tobe a fighter.
I wasn't, like I said, thoseearly days of me being a color
belt versus all the black beltsin the room.
I mean, they ran me around theroom rugged, like I had nothing
for them, to the point where itwas something happened and we
were fighting and fighting andthen there was a switch that
changed and I'm like wait aminute, I can do what they can
(32:09):
do.
I got to go try to do what theycan do because I'm tired of
getting hit.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Do you remember when it happened?
Speaker 4 (32:13):
I remember the exact moment when it happened.
Really.
Yeah, I remember the exactmoment when that happened.
We were at a gym on anArmy-based training on these gym
floors type thing.
I won't go into detail aboutthe story but yeah, that very
day I was basically getting mybutt whooped.
I was getting basically gettingmy butt whooped and I took one
shot and I kind of looked at theperson that I hit and I saw
(32:34):
their face change just slightlyand I'm like wait, he don't like
this just as much as I don'tlike this.
Let me go find out how much youdon't like this.
And that kind of changed mywhole little dynamic.
But yeah, I agree with you, Iwasn't.
I wasn't born going.
I'm going to go beat people up.
You know what I mean.
I knew you had to protectyourself as a kid, but I was
never like looking for thefights or like trying to be in
the middle of everything, likefor me it was more about how
(33:00):
about you, herc.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
That's so crazy that you can remember the moment.
Yeah, I mean yeah, thank you,thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
But did you win early ?
Did you win early?
Did you win early, like whenyou're a color belt?
Thank you, yeah.
(36:29):
Yeah that was different.
(36:49):
Like you know, 80s 80s and stufflike that.
It was different 80s, 90s.
I mean yeah, yeah yeah.
Yeah.
(37:10):
It's called discipline yeah,but you know, the unspoken code
(38:09):
is just was was kind of a, Imean it was kind of an etiquette
type thing.
It was kind of like you justknew, just like when kids were
young, they knew when they weresupposed to talk and when
parents were talking you werequiet, you didn't interrupt them
, you didn't that's how I wouldyou're like old school five
tenets of Tequando, those werelike the core of everything.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
You function off of those.
You function off of those.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah that's
(39:27):
100% learned because you can,even because if you grow up in
the streets, you learn who totalk to, who not to, because you
mess up once and you you get introuble.
And the same thing when you'reyoung and your parents give you
a spanking or whatever, youlearn that that's not no one's
innately goes.
I shouldn't talk because Imight interrupt.
No, you learned that.
That's not no one's innatelygoes.
I shouldn't talk because Imight interrupt.
No, you learned that.
But that was parenting, thatwas we.
(39:47):
We talked about leadershipright now, tj, with some of our
top level athletes.
You know they shouldn't betaught how to, not how to be
their person, because I thinkwe're all unique and we should
all be able to express.
But there's certain etiquettethat you should have.
There's certain, you know,decorum that you should have and
(40:09):
when people go, yeah, but it'sa you know what.
You're just living in this lala world right now that you
think everyone is entitled.
You know I should be able tosay whatever I want.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Yeah, but that's what I think has to be, and always
have to remain, special aboutour sport.
Is that right there?
Obviously, we want greatathletes.
Obviously we want Olympic goldmedals, obviously, obviously,
obviously.
But all these things you guysare talking about right now
matter more than not.
Like, you have to know how toact.
You're supposed to know how toact.
This stuff made me moredisciplined in my athletic
(40:42):
career so I could continue totry to excel and be in these
other rooms and be in theseother conversations.
All this stuff is that you haveto be martial.
It's martial arts, martial arts, martial arts.
In WCAP, they always saidsomething.
They said we're a specializedsports unit in the military, but
they would always say and Iused to always make fun of it,
sometimes every now and then butsoldiers first, because you had
(41:03):
to be who you were if thecountry needed you to go forth
and stand for them.
So it's soldiers first andathletes, and I think that goes
for us.
I know we all want to be a bigsport and everything like that,
but martial arts first and thenyou're a sports player, martial
artist, and then you chase therest of it.
But it all has to blendtogether and I think that I'm
going to say some of the greatertalk about the special people.
(41:25):
I think they had that.
I think that discipline wasthere.
I think that little bit offocus was there.
I don't know, but that's justme.
I think that has to remain andbe strong always.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I don't know one athlete no, no, I was going to
say I don't know one athlete inour sport or out of our sport
that doesn't have the.
Again, we can be brash, we canbe whatever, but doesn't, at the
core, have morals, ethics andvalues.
And then again, well, listen,we're all, you know, we all, we
(41:58):
all have our little faults andstuff like that.
You know, again, I keep talkingabout Michael.
Michael Jordan liked to smokecigars and play golf and gamble,
right, but at the end of theday, everybody knows he was
dedicated to being the bestathlete that he could be for his
team, for the city that herepresented, all those kinds of
things, and he's been able to goon and do other things.
(42:21):
When I look at the greats, theyall have those morals, ethics,
values.
They all have courtesy,integrity, perseverance,
self-control, abdominal spirit.
Not that we're not, again,without an ego or a fault.
I mean, maybe I could bearrogant one time, maybe my
spirit is down, but generallyspeaking it's going to be up and
(42:41):
I think that all the greatathletes have that learned trait
, that nurtured trait.
No-transcript, you're saying tobe honest with you, I, but I
(46:03):
think you can do some of thoseother things and still and still
some of the yeah, this, youknow the, the team camaraderie,
the, you know the discipline andstuff like that.
I mean I agree, I mean I, I'm alisten.
When I first opened peakperformance and my, I broke down
a lot of stereotypes.
I'm like let's be, let's be asport, let's wear comfortable
(46:27):
stuff when we compete.
Of course we have to get usedto all that stuff.
I didn't have any flags.
We didn't have a bow in.
We bowed to each other but wedidn't bow to a flag.
We didn't show any allegianceto anything like that.
At the end we got together, wedid a cheer, I said a couple of
words.
I made I made a conservativeeffort to break down some things
(46:49):
that I had to do.
Just because there was noscientific thing about it, it
was just just because why?
Because I said, okay, so Ibroke down, but I've had to come
back a little bit because afterall this generations of people
like you guys that understoodthis stuff and said you know
what, I know how to act, I knowhow to be respectful, I know how
(47:10):
to conduct myself properly infront of people, all of a sudden
I had a generation of justsports people.
Tj, you said we got to keep it.
They might as well have been asoccer player, football player,
basketball player.
Hey, what's up?
Sit down in the corner.
And I'm like I almost blew agasket when I kind of figured
this all out and I'm like, well,now that's my fault, because
(47:31):
the pendulum has swung too far.
Now we have to wear a certainshirt.
Now we have to act.
Now you come to my gym.
You walked into my gym rightnow.
Every single person would comeup to you and shake your hand or
give you a dab.
I know that's not the mostformal greeting, but every
single kid will come up and sayhello to you.
I mean, it was about me goingback and teaching this group
(47:56):
because you said again too, tj,when you were coming up, you
were chasing people.
So you learn how to act andlearn how to train without
people telling you you werenurtured when, when that that
line goes away.
Now we have what we have in thenational team in this country.
You look at, you go to theworld championships.
You got high profile athleteswearing jeans and polos because
(48:21):
they don't want to wear team usastuff.
So I mean, I think there's,there's got to be a little.
Speaker 4 (48:26):
How about this?
How about how about this forculture?
Like so I had to get used to, Ihad to get used to the athletes
around calling the, the ceo,the coaches, the high performer,
like may paul steve gareth Iwas.
I was like stupid, shocked.
I'm just like there's no way.
And like then when I had tolike slowly try to figure out
(48:48):
how to tell these kids like youdon't call me TJ, like there's
no way you call me TJ in anysituation.
There's no conversation whereyou approach me TJ and I'm cool.
You call me coach, tj, you cancall me coach.
You can like wait, tj, whateveryou want, but you're not going
to talk to me and call me by myfirst name, and I heard this is
normal.
We're talking about the CEO andthey're going.
Oh yeah, I got to go talk toSteve and I'm like who?
Speaker 2 (49:10):
Yeah, you know, it's funny because even in listen
kids, look I'm not old as yougrandma spreads, but I'm going
to be 54.
Most of the people that walkinto my school with their kids,
you know their thirties andforties and I'm like hey, mrs,
mrs Johnson, hey, mrs, I don'tcall anybody by their first name
, just as a as a respect to aparent and for certainly someone
(49:34):
as older than me, I don't say Imean for purposes that we're
here right now.
I never, I I never call, saywhat's up.
Herb, it's Kyung, it's my olderbrother.
It's just crazy to me that kids, my daughter comes over and I'm
like you never call Deanna byDeanna.
(49:55):
Her name is Miss Deanna or MissSuarez.
You say Miss before.
If Isabella wants to call, no,no, no, it doesn't matter.
You 1,000% is Mr or Mrs, that'sit, there's no question.
But that's again being taughtwhen people want to be all again
.
This is that new.
I don't want to use the wordwoke, but that woke generation
of people.
(50:15):
There's a certain amount ofetiquette.
That should be, that shouldstay.
It has to Etiquette.
(51:31):
It's just normal etiquette.
Thank you, it's not okay.
That's not okay.
That's not okay.
Young, that's not okay.
Speaker 4 (51:34):
No, it's not okay like, why would you even, why
would that even be something yousay?
Like, why would that as anorganization, why would you ever
say the opposite of?
Like our country got olympicgold medals this year, this year
.
How does it support your storyto shut and cut all that down?
(51:55):
That's the problem.
Like that's so stupid stupid,stupid, thank you that's a weird
(53:12):
little stigma too.
I always felt like that too.
If I showed up to a tournamentback and you had to bring your
own helmets and everybody wantedthose red and blue dip adidas
helmets you know I'm talkingabout the shiny ones like I feel
like you can't go to thattournament and lose.
I know that that equipment wasreserved for winners, you know
what I mean.
Like you had that all.
You probably were out therescraping people.
If not, you had a white macholike everybody else.
(53:32):
So you know it's so funny, awhite macho.
Speaker 2 (53:37):
Well listen, I know we've been all over the place,
but I mean for me, like I mean,I would just, I mean on this
whole thing about the athletesand we should talk about
coaching too at some pointdifferent levels, but I mean I
would say that I'm going to goout there and say that to be
great, you have to be gifted,whether it's genetically or you
(53:57):
have to be gifted, but you, your, your, your gift has to, has to
be nurtured.
That's where I'm, that's whereI'm going to kind of sum up my
thing.
Like you, you have, if you'regoing to be literally
groundbreaking cream of the crop, you have to have some
God-given body, god-given talent, something that all of us
mortals don't have.
(54:18):
But in order to get there, youhad to be, you had to be
nurtured, you had to havediscipline and dedication and
desire and grit and all thethings that we all know make a
great athlete.
Because if not, you would havebeen like 98% of the other
population.
Where you see them in highschool.
You're like man tall, fast,strong, and they dropped out of
(54:39):
college or they quit the team orthey're working at some odd job
, correct?
(55:25):
I'll take one more person.
You have somebody TJ, I havesomebody you, I have somebody
you guys go.
I'm listening, yeah, I mean Ithere's.
I won't say anybody modern,because I don't want to go there
yet, because I don't think Icould judge them until they
finish.
But like I got two, two and youknow both of them were very
gifted in my era.
I think one was clay barber andone was chun li.
Both of them were really giftedin my era.
I think One was Clay Barber andone was Tian Li.
Now both of them woninternational medals, but I
(55:49):
still don't believe, based onwhat I saw, the physicality,
what they could do speed, power,explosion, dynamic.
I know people talk about peoplenowadays, but these guys were.
They're the reason I leftChicago and went to the Olympic
Trainer Center, those two people, because I'm like they're so
good, they're so strong.
(56:09):
But something was off and I'mgoing to say it was partly their
fault but partly the nurturingpart.
I don't think they had theright mentors for them that
could have gotten more out ofthem.
Clay Barber was a silver medalat the World Championships once,
but there was another five, six, seven years that he probably,
in my opinion, could have didmore.
I mean, he's a good friend ofmine.
(56:31):
We talk on the phone often.
I have the utmost respect forhim.
He has a great career now.
I personally think that hecould have been more.
I fought at the Olympic trialsfinals, but he was a teammate of
mine before.
I mean he was incrediblytalented.
I mean the guy could doeverything, but I think he
(56:53):
didn't have the right mentor.
He butted heads with them Again.
I can blame a little bit ofboth, but I don't think they got
the most out of their God-givenability and they worked hard,
but there was something missingand I think it was the nurturing
part from the coaches.
That's just my point.
Speaker 4 (57:12):
I'm going to final thought.
I think it's a lot of nurture.
I mean, when we start thinkingback and thinking about all the
stories we told, it's a lot ofnurture.
I think the coaches either theathlete was special or the coach
was special, or both arespecial somehow.
But I think the nurture fromthe coaches and the guidance you
get early kind of dictates thetrajectory you go on.
And I think that's in everysport and I know we try to give
(57:33):
credit as much credit as we canto the athletes, because it's
them out there that are sweating, kicking, grinding.
But also for me and I thinkabout my career was a lot of
nurture and, like I said fromagain, I don't think I've had a
bad coach the entire time I'vedone this sport, so it's got to
be a lot of that for me.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
So nurture it is.
Yeah, that's a good one.
Look at Mr T.
He wasn't nurtured properly.
He should have been great.
He should have been great, heshould have been great he was,
the man alright Peace, peace.
Speaker 3 (59:26):
Oh man, you messed up .
Now I gotta stop.
Would you cut up my thing, man?
What are you doing?
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