May 8, 2025 • 57 mins
Olympic medalists Juan Moreno, TJ , and Herb Perez pull no punches in this raw, unfiltered examination of what's happening behind the scenes in American taekwondo.
Coach Moreno shares fascinating insights from his training camp in Uzbekistan, where he's witnessed a thriving system with nine full-time coaches for their senior team, impressive test matches, and remarkable depth of talent. The contrast between this environment and the current USA program becomes the springboard for a deeper conversation about leadership, accountability, and inclusion in American taekwondo.
The coaches reveal their frustrations with USA Taekwondo leadership's systematic exclusion of Olympic medalists and experienced coaches from the national program. Despite reaching out directly to program directors, these accomplished coaches receive no response whatsoever – a stunning lack of professional courtesy that reveals deeper organizational issues. As Coach Perez pointedly remarks, "The program has been historically run by non-performers."
What emerges is a troubling picture of an organization that, despite significant financial resources, struggles with athlete development and maintaining competitive depth across weight divisions. The coaches question why leadership remains unchanged despite years of underwhelming results, noting that in any other professional sport, such performance would trigger immediate changes. Their proposed solution centers around creating true "buy-in" from the broader taekwondo community – building an inclusive environment where experience is valued and everyone feels respected.
Whether you're a taekwondo practitioner, coach, or simply interested in sports organization development, this episode offers rare insider perspective on what it takes to build truly successful athletic programs. Listen now to hear these Olympic medalists speak truth to power about the sport they love.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Terrence, run to the scene.
No thrill, I'm sorry, not sorry, ain't it funny?
I repeat on the track my sisterill Advise opinions maybe, but
facts ain't lies, it's coldmetal mentality.
Watch the sunrise 1F1, I'mcheckin' in.
So we're sittin' pretty.
Still mean.
Second best in the world.
Get witty.
Face down to Ponyx, pressurecookin' hot.
Gave my sweat, my focus,everything I got TJ Grimes, tj
(00:23):
holding down the bronze Stood onthe stage.
I fought.
The giants turned the new page,learned to discipline, focused
respect for the fight, my fight,my life was something I knew.
Vitality deep in the sun, oneof two.
I'm, in reality, just me.
I still need to be up in thebox.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
There's something in this, somethinged from the
building.
There was black smoke once.
Then there's white smoke.
I am proud to announce thatJuan Compapa, papa Diana Moreno
is not the Pope, but, moreimportantly, I think it's
finally time for TJ.
Tj not the Pope either, anddefinitely not me, but we have a
new Pope and he is.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Robert Francis Prevost from the USA.
We'll see.
If I'm not mistaken, it's thefirstost from the USA, we'll see
.
If I'm not mistaken, it's thefirst pope from America ever.
Just because of that, I'm goingto say Robert.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
There's a chance that he's going to take the name of
John, which is my middle name,and of course, everybody knows
that Juan, besides being Spanishfor Goma Mielda, is John in
Spanish.
So TJ is back in his bat lairwith his joker background, and
(01:51):
so when you're watching thevideo, if you're watching this
on on youtube, just look to theright.
He is the dark spot in themidst of the white spot behind
him so you can see him.
But again, welcome everybody.
This is the warehouse.
We'll start with our usualdisclaimer sorry, not sorry, not
(02:11):
sorry and if you listen to ournew song.
We got a new song up on youtube.
It's getting an amazing amountof hits.
I was shocked to see how many.
Hopefully those sponsorshipchecks will start running in.
This is him, no dude, that'sthe real that's the real pope.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
That's the pope.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, that's the pope I'm not talking about the pope
not the pope of greenwichvillage.
That's the real pope triviafact who was the pope of
greenwich village village?
No say eric roberts, eric,roberts, eric.
No say Eric Roberts, ericRoberts, eric Roberts.
He took my finger.
All right, I could find thatfor you later.
(02:50):
All right, gentlemen, tj,what's going?
Speaker 5 (02:52):
on, please.
What's going on sir?
Chilling, chilling, just alwaysexcited for Thursdays.
It's my therapy on Thursdays,thursday therapy.
Get to sit here and talk withyou guys talk about Taekwondo.
So as always, I'm excited.
What's going on with you?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Not much Just waiting .
Coach, what's going on with?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
you Listen, I'm in Uzbekistan and I just I would.
First of all, this is a veryMuslim country.
They practice Islam and I wentto a Catholic church here.
It was amazing.
This picture was up there andit's just kind of for me.
It's kind of I'm a Catholic, soit's pretty neat that I'm here
(03:31):
and all of a sudden they justelected the new Pope.
My wife just told me literallya couple seconds ago.
So it's pretty awesome.
But yeah, I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Oh, your wife told you, I thought you knew that.
I thought you knew that, Ithought you knew that we were
texting back and forth.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
She told me it was coming with white smoke.
I didn't even know.
And then I said, as soon as youfind out, let me know.
So she just texted me.
But listen in honor of Okay,okay, okay, okay, All right.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I just wanted, now that I figured out how to work
it, you know we messed up thatis.
That is the pope of greenwichvillage and that's eric roberts
with mickey roberts I'm not done.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I got a couple things .
I gotta give a shout out to myman, don lewis, for my adult
beverage.
I gotta give a shout out to myman, dr steve caberron, from my
Korean ramen in Wachimokot inUzbekistan.
And this is just some Pringles.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
So yeah, did they send you a care package or
something?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
No man, I'm just like here just winging it.
Let's go.
Just winging it huh, I'm readyto go.
Today, I feel a little likesomething you guys did, we talk
since you guys had test matchesthere.
How's that?
How was that?
Whoa, wait a minute.
My wife is awesome.
She just texted me homeboysfrom shytown.
(04:53):
Let me give that.
Folks up there right there,chicago, illinois pope, what do
you know about that?
You guys don't know nothingabout that that.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
That is crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Chicago Pope.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I'm not going to hear the end of it.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah man, my wife just texted me right now, I had
no idea he's from Illinois,Chicago, Illinois.
Hold up here, he is right here.
Look my man.
My man's a G boy.
Look at this guy Represent.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I've actually found some footage of the new Pope.
I don't know how I do this.
I'm so good.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Leon.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
He's 69 years old.
I'll respond a little bit toJane.
I said it was some problem withthe paperwork and.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Stop, bro, don't be messing around with me, man.
Right now the pope is elected.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Man, you're a sacrilegious anyway, just
letting you know, just lettingyou know, alright, so whatever
that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
That's amazing, I'm happy, yeah, so how?
Speaker 5 (06:03):
how are the test matches?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
listen, test matches were great.
We, um, we had them, uh, twodays ago.
These guys are like first classman.
They, they brought in three,three, we had three rings.
They brought in referees.
Um, we had a holding area, theyhad match numbers.
It was everything.
I was like, holy crap, they'relike yo match number one's up.
We're like, oh my gosh, theydid a good job of giving us a
(06:29):
couple different variety ofpeople.
The referees were on point.
They let us fight.
We did really well.
I mean, we dropped a couple,but we won a lot more than we
lost.
And I was a little surprisedbecause, watching the level, it
goes to show you that justbecause you train well doesn't
(06:49):
mean that you compete well, andI think we can all attest to
that.
These guys really train well.
But some of we have a goodgroup of, you know, kids here
and I say kids because they'rekids to me.
Um, we have some olympians, wehave some olympic medalists and
we have some new kids and wewere really good, we were really
strong and we had some goodbattles.
(07:09):
You know, like I said, we wewanted some close ones.
We we lost some close ones, butthe energy was great.
They had a, you know, I toldyou guys they have um, they told
me they have nine coaches onstaff for the senior team, and
then there was probably anotherthree or four other coaches that
I hadn't seen.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
Are those all like, uh, are those all paid positions
?
Or you know, all those likefull, like all nine paid?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
coaches, nine paid coaches, nine paid coaches for
the senior team, for the seniorteam, and while we were here,
they had a junior program andthey invited me to go watch.
It was two and hours away Iprogram and they invited me to
go watch.
It was two and hours away.
I was like, um, they had arussian team, they had a
bulgarian team, they had a uh, Ican't remember.
(07:51):
They had four teams here andthey were.
They had a training camp withthe juniors and I was like holy
cow, I mean super nice man.
They invited us to, uh, moscowfor a training camp, in training
camp in August to bring ourjunior team.
Super nice, that's cool.
Yeah, super, super nice, superaccommodating.
But to answer your pointdirectly, tj, the tennis match
(08:14):
was great.
It was rowdy, it was reallyconflicting.
Not conflict, everyone's there.
The coaches are walking aroundthe ring.
It wasn't like you were sittingin quiet.
People are like yelling andjust really getting in there.
You know, I'm going to say formyself, for the first couple
rounds I was just kind ofsitting back and talking, but by
(08:36):
the end I'm walking around thering and I'm doing interviews
with national TV and then I'mlike, you know, yelling and
stuff like that.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
It was really fun.
We had a great time.
It was awesome.
That's cool.
That's cool and that was um.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
you said that was um how many matches you did, like
three or four matches eachperson, or yeah, we're getting
three matches.
It depended on the divisionsand stuff like that.
We're getting three.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
What is that?
That's cool.
You should have told him.
You should have never told themit wasn't working.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I just wanted to share footage we had found of
the actual event.
Y'all can't jump.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
So, but anyway.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
Yeah, that's cool, though that's dope.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I mean we had a lot of people, man, I mean between
our athletes, and I didn't saythis.
China showed up on Monday with25 deep.
I was like holy cow and allthey want to do is fight.
It's funny because we're doingdrills and they do well, but
I've heard the coach tomorrow'sfine, tomorrow's fine,
tomorrow's fine.
All they want to do is fight.
(09:40):
So we matched up well with themand they have their one, two
Olympians here, you, one olympicsilver medalist and stuff like
that.
So they brought some.
It's a club, team, clubs.
Did you go fight in that, that,that world cup in ouija, or
that that place is all muslim inchina?
Speaker 5 (09:59):
you did I thought yes , yes, yeah, yeah, yeah that's
where they're from.
That's where they're from ohshoot Okay, the team that came
in.
Yep, yep, Okay okay, okay, thatwas a crazy tournament.
I like that format.
That was the one where theWorld Cup, you had to fight the
full match to take the point.
So it was Olympic divisions, Ithink right, olympic weight
divisions, or was it five.
(10:20):
I feel like there was like afifth division or something
weird, right?
Anyways, you had to fight thewhole match to win the spot.
That was the same year.
I think Spain won the World Cupthat year while we were there
and they ended up winning theWorld Cup when we were in China.
They got to the finals and wonthat one.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
What do you mean?
You had to fight the full match.
What does that mean?
Speaker 5 (10:40):
So 58, you had to fight three rounds.
Whoever won that match in thatdivision, you got one point for
that group and then 68 went andyou got one point for that group
.
It was the best finish out ofthe.
I think it was five divisions,I think it was, yeah, some 54
maybe and then some otherdivisions, but whatever it was
best.
Three out of five matches tookthe win for the whole overall
(11:00):
match and you fought through thewhole thing and some days, like
I think the first day, wefought at like nine in the
morning and then the next day wedidn't fight till like that's
crazy 6 pm, 5 pm again.
You don't realize how fastthose bruises set in when you
got to wake up and do it again.
It's weird because you do itevery day at training but at the
competition.
I remember getting back to thehotel after that, uh, first day
and I was fine, but in themorning I woke up and it was
(11:22):
like little bruises like my heel, my wrist, my elbow, and then
we had to wait until 6 pm againto fight and I think the last
day was back in the afternoon atsome time.
It was definitely an interestingevent.
I like that format.
I like that format better forWorld Cups than the tag team
stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
to be honest, it's funny you say that because the
bruises said it was a little cut.
I mean a little kind of oldschool, right, a little old
school kind of fighting.
Pretty cool Look at this guys,I'm going to show you something,
hold on.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I'm not saying that, I'm just chatting.
I'm not saying it out loud, butthat is pretty funny.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Oh yeah, I know, it was what the hell?
Oh, that was your name.
I like acupuncture.
I miss acupuncture.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
First time ever.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
It's so amazing.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
I never did it, it was you.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
That's crazy.
I never did it.
You've done fire cuffs though.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Never did it.
Speaker 5 (12:13):
Like the what I did, the old school fire cuffs where
they throw the match inside andeverything and it goes so listen
, did my first.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I've had massages my whole.
I've had massages all the timeand people have told me
sportsman.
So because we're doing twotrainings a day, the olympic
committee sent a masseuse herealong with our pt guy and this
old man named julio.
He's unbelievable, this dude,because my he did uh, no, stop,
(12:49):
stop, it's magic.
Hey, I never had a.
This guy killed me, but like Icould move, all of a sudden,
inflammation was gone.
Today he did me so, like somany places, like I have bruises
I bet you do stop.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
Yeah, they hurt, though, like in the process,
they're like painful I hate whenthey get when they start doing
it with, like their elbows andstuff, that's when it gets crazy
.
Like the, the point their elbow, like right on the muscle we're
trying to release it is, isnuts.
I'm a wimp, that's's crap Hurt.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I don't get massages and I don't do jujitsu.
I don't do that stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
First of all, we got to come back here.
The place is everyone's sofriendly, it's so clean, it's so
safe, it's so cheap and thetraining.
It reminds me of Korea, backaback in the day.
It really does I mean they'reso clean they're, but they train
hard, they don't, they don'tcomplain it.
(13:54):
It's really really uhimpressive.
Um, I'm I didn't know what toexpect.
I didn't hope it would be good,but it's it far exceeded my
expectations.
It's really really that good.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So you know good, the one thing that's amazing about
taekwondo is um, when you gosomewhere where you have a true
taekwondo culture and then itmixes with the indigenous
culture, whatever that might beum, and they share values and
the way they do things.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I'll bring my guys over here.
I'll bring all my Brazil people.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Hey, Beshka, Beshka hey coach what's up?
How you guys doing Nice good tosee you.
There's my guy right there.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Come here.
Come here.
This is my technical director.
This is our coach, the ChinoOlympic bronze medalist.
This is Enrique.
He's Olympian.
This is Enrique, he's anOlympian.
This is Guilherme.
He's going to the Junior Pan AmElena Champions.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Campeones.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
This is Pan Am Games gold medalist, an Olympian.
This is Maria Clara Olympian.
So yeah, these are my peoples.
Nice to see you all.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I know they can't hear us, but tell them.
We said Buen Provecho.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Yeah they're so cool, man, they're so nice.
But anyway, what are we talkingabout today?
No, I was um, but I was uhthinking about just talking
about the stuff you were talkingwith the training camps and
training styles and stuff likethat, and just kind of go off of
that.
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
well, um, speaking of training camps, I'm here and
one of my athletes actually justwent to michael, not michael
rodriguez, he's a national teamathlete.
He went out to the academy todo some test matches.
I guess they um offered him tocome for a week, paid him full
blah, blah, blah and um uh, he'sgonna give me some updates and
(15:40):
training and you know these kindof things.
And ah, I'm going to start bysaying this I reached out to two
people.
Now I'm gonna call them bynames because I'm tired of not.
I reached out ahead of time tosherman nelson, the director of
affairs yeah, I, you know, I Ireached out on a personal level
(16:03):
as the home coach and zeroresponse.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I reached out to.
He has a better record than you, right?
So he doesn't have to respondto you.
You're his junior.
Go ahead, I'm sorry, Iapologize.
Not even he's forgotten histaekwondo manners a long time
ago.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I just again, you can't be that busy.
And so, anyway, kind of goingback.
Um, I reached out to the headcoach directly.
Um had a conversation with himat the olympic games.
Um, he approached me.
It was very cordial.
I think I talked about this atone point.
Um, then he said juan, if youever have anything, just contact
me directly.
(16:42):
So I did.
I asked them specifically a fewquestions, made a couple
requests and nothing.
Gareth Brown, you can't say okay, no, screw you, go to hell, I
don't care, you can't doanything In this day and age.
(17:06):
I refuse to believe that you donot have your phone with you
and you had to have seen my textmessage.
It's the most direct line ofcommunication with everybody.
So it's a little bit of a gripe.
Because I went to the two headpeople.
I'm not saying I'm somebody,but I'm definitely not nobody.
(17:26):
You know who I am.
And my guy went there.
Contrary to what you guysthought, I allowed my guy to go
there.
I encouraged my guy to go there, be there, have fun, do
whatever, and you guys can'teven respond to me.
Tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'mout of line here, am I?
(17:50):
I don't know.
I don't know, maybe I'm-.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Nah, because they make time to respond to people
they want to respond to.
It doesn't make any sense.
If you're reaching out Again,we can talk, pedigree, we can
talk.
Why you'd want to have aconversation?
We could talk.
Why you'd want to have aconversation with a coach that
has their athlete up theretraining like why, why would
that not be open line ofcommunication?
Isn't that what this wholething is about?
Right?
Isn't that what they've been?
You know what they preach?
Speaker 3 (18:12):
isn't that what we talk about.
That's right.
They're preaching transparencyand in working relationships.
And again I I don't know ifthey called any other guys.
I mean, what do they got outthere?
They got three guys.
They got Johnny Healy, they gotCJ and they got Kafani and I
think Will Cunningham is goingout there.
So you have three for sure,maybe four, and you got one
(18:34):
other guy.
There's only one other guy, soyou got five people max.
You got an African there thatlives in the area, that comes in
trains too, for what I have noidea, but you got three to four
american athletes and anotherone's coming.
You can't respond, you can't.
You can't humor me at all.
I'm that much of an assholethat you can't talk to me like
(18:57):
what the heck, what the heck manI'm sorry, it's just didn't
tell you.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
But didn't he tell you, but didn't he tell you to
reach out to him and talk to himif you had any issues?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
then it wasn't like Olympic Games I had said
something to somebody and heliterally came to me and, like I
told you guys, I have not hadmany conversations with him, but
it was purely professional andvery nice.
I I give him a lot of creditand respect for that and he told
me you got something, come tome.
And I talked to him before,after the team trials, and he
(19:24):
had texted me a little, so Ithought if I said something he
would respond back Again.
Yes, no, maybe so, but nothing.
Nothing so interesting.
Kind of weird man, kind of sad,a little bit disappointed, to
be honest, with you well, theorganization.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
You know the culture you design for the organization
is designed by its leadership,right and and its leadership.
They've got to decide what theywant to do and what they want
to support and what they thinkmatters.
So it's clear that you know, along time ago, this organization
has forgotten its respectmatrix and it forgot what the
sport was, that they did, whythey did it and who did it.
(20:08):
And so all you don't have tolook that far to figure that out
, because the reality is thepeople in the organization.
You know you got to rememberwhen it started.
It started when they decided toexit all the crooked thieves
and charlatans from the pastincarnation of the organization.
(20:28):
And so when they got rid of allthose people, which was a broad
band of people it was Americans, Koreans, everybody.
You know the names don't reallymatter.
But when they decided to get ridof all of them, they decided
that, in addition to that, theyshould get rid of the traditions
and everything else that we doas a sport.
(20:48):
So they don't.
I mean you should.
The common courtesy of customerservice should happen
regardless, right?
Whether you're whatever.
If you're a high level coachwho's putting people on Olympic
podiums, then it should happen.
Even right, whether you'rewhatever.
If you're a high level coachwho's putting people on olympic
podiums, then it should happen,even more so.
But the idea that they wouldignore olympians and um, but you
know they've rewritten historyin their mind.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
You talked to you talked to them before the camp,
though right like before michaelgoing out there, you had
conversations with them back andforth right after team trials
we kind of went back and forth.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
You know, herb, you bring up a good point about
again.
I'm not even going to sit thereand say you have to speak with
everybody and stuff like that,but there's certain people that
are still within the sport.
They're doing some really goodthings, whether you like it or
not, and to not even conversewith them to not even work with
(21:40):
them.
And again, it soundsself-serving, but TJ is a
perfect example.
Like how is he the only guy,the only Olympic guy that
doesn't even get any love?
Like, how does he not get?
It's been like that.
It's been like that man, Ithink it's because you're black.
It's been like that.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
I think it's because you're black.
It might be.
Who knows that it's been likethat man.
I think it's been like that.
I think it's because you'reblack.
It might be.
Who knows?
You never know it might be it.
Don't make no sense.
I mean I'm, but you give meanother reason.
Give me, give me any reason.
Give me a reason they had, areason they had a reason for
four years, which was bullshit,and it's gone and they always
got a reason no, no, before itwas, I don't want it was I'm not
putting it out there, but youknow what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
They had a little reason that was going on for a
couple years and that obviouslywas bs.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
And now before it was before that.
It was because I knew too manyathletes, and athletes that they
trained with were a part of theteam or too close with, and I
couldn't be up there fortraining, uh, training meanwhile
, those people that they'retalking about don't even exist
in their program anymore.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Yeah, it's silly.
No, it's silly.
It's always a reason.
It's always a reason.
It's always been a reason.
It's always been a reason.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I'm in a bad mood right now because I think when
we first started this podcast,we took some bites at some
people and it just keeps puttingits ugly head in front of us
and it's too hard not to take aswing at it.
It's just ridiculous, it's justtoo much.
And are we better right now?
(23:08):
Where are we at More people?
I said this last podcast andone of our former athletes
actually brought this up to methere's more people outside of
the program that seem to bedoing well than inside the
program.
What does that say?
What does that say?
They got all the money.
They got all the resourcesthese videos is crazy.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
Okay, just had a how to share the love show, but but
but seriously give I mean likeyou're not wrong, though it
makes it makes no sense.
It makes no sense.
I've been have you.
When you talk about um, I wasjust talking we were talking
about earlier.
I've been on the junior team,the senior team, the collegiate
team, the world team, the pan amchampionship team, the world
like uh, olympic medalists, agrand prix champion, uh, grand
prix competitors, all everylevel of this game.
(24:06):
That's happened from the timebefore electronics all the way
through now.
I've been a part of in thisorganization and not good enough
, not good and not not goodenough, not good enough, not
good enough, not good enough atall.
No matter what, there's alwaysa reason.
It makes no sense, it makes nosense.
Yeah, other people keep gettingit now, now it's because I guess
, now it's because you know, nowit's because we say what we
(24:27):
want to say.
Now it's because I say what Iwant to say.
That's the reason why they'renot going to work with us,
because we don't like them,right?
It's always been the case,right?
That's always been the reasonthey don't want to work with us
because of who I worked with,who I was next with, who I was a
part of.
What's the difference?
It's the same situation overand over and over again.
It doesn't matter where youstand, it doesn't matter what
you do.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
History repeats itself because, young, I
remember when you were theoutcast.
I remember when you didn't wantto go to the OTC.
I remember when your, yourmaster, your grandmaster, wasn't
in favor with all this stuff.
You know, I know I'm going backnow, but I'm just trying to.
It's weird.
We think we've gotten better,we haven't gotten better.
The same shit happened when youwere doing it, young, and you,
(25:09):
you were that guy.
Well, you're still that guythat throws, you know, bombs
from from left field yeah, youhave to, though.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
So I mean I like I got taken, yeah, but I'm not
even.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
I don't even do that.
Like I have a whole notheraspect to the whole thing, like
you know what I mean, like I letwork be work and let's play
fair.
I mean I've seen relationshipswith people that guarantee like
maybe necessarily don't 100% getalong, you know, but in a
professional standpoint pointthey work together.
I've approached that wholesituation from that direction
from the beginning.
I've talked to you about someof those early conversations
(25:41):
like work is work.
At that point I'm at the.
I'm in the us military coachinga united states team.
The only way we win is if theywin and we couldn't figure out
how to work together because ofwhere I stood before them, who
helped me get to where I was,what team I'm a part of, what
training camps I take my guys toit.
It makes no sense.
It makes no sense.
None of it adds up.
(26:03):
None of it adds up.
It's the same thing, like youjust said.
It's the same thing like youjust said.
They get in their room and theycontrol it as long as they can
control it, and they just let itbe what it is.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So the question becomes you know, and this is
where organizational managementhappens and matters, right.
So, and you see it at alllevels of different
organizations.
So you know, when I came tothis city, for example, I
decided I wanted to help thecity and so I noticed that a
local PTA we were doing a lot ofwork for schools going in and
teaching and doing stuff.
So this kid comes in and hecan't, they're not going to have
(26:35):
a pizza party because he didn'traise $1.
You had to at least getsponsorship for $1.
So I find this out, I call thePTA and I say how much money do
you need?
And so I'll buy all thet-shirts for all the kids, by
the way, I'll pay for all thepizza parties for the kids, and
(26:56):
it was, I don't know whatever.
And then I wanted to raisemoney for their school for music
instruments, because theycouldn't afford a music program
because the state wasn't payingfor it.
So the woman the goes oh, wejust need two hundred dollars,
three hundred dollars.
So then I realized I'd neverheard anybody refuse money like,
and I said you know, that's thefirst I've ever heard of anyone
(27:18):
refusing money.
Right, like the US OlympicCommittee, we take everybody's
money for donations.
And so I was like then I go,somebody says to me, oh, her son
or daughter goes to the othermartial arts school in town
which is run by this weirdlittle you know fakey made up
Shaolinolin, chinese, japanesekempo karate thing which is big
(27:42):
out here in uh california calleduh ussd, and the guy's like
some petty mobster or something.
And so I was like, okay, um, soI go, I go to the principal, I
go, you know, we're willing topay this, we'll pay for legacy,
we'll get instruments,instruments donated and we'll do
all this thing.
And so instead I realized theorganization because of some
(28:04):
woman who was now not in thetown anymore, by the way, her
jealousy, her pettiness, becausewe had come in and we were a
big imprint.
We had 850 students.
The other school had struggledto have a hundred, the other
school had struggled to have 100.
So that's a PTA.
We fixed our own problem.
We went to another school intown and started donating money
(28:25):
to them and raising money forthem and over 10 years we raised
$1.5 million.
Now, this isn't to talk about meor what we did.
This is to talk about thepettiness of people.
Imagine a woman who's so pettyand has children in the school
system and she doesn't careanything about the other 900
(28:45):
kids in that school.
She cares about her little KungFu wizard, who's seven years
old and goes to a bad school intown.
Well, why would USAT be anydifferent?
Usa Taekwondo doesn't care aboutyou.
They don't care about results.
If they cared about results,they'd have the best and the
brightest in the room, those whohave done it before and, by the
way, are still doing it today.
(29:06):
And I'm not saying bring me inthe room, bring anybody in and
bring whatever, but in whatstretch of the imagination?
I don't want to mention hisname, gareth Brown.
But by what stretch of theimagination do you go out and
dig into the deep hole of theamazing legacy of British
taekwondo which there isn'tanyway, by the way, with the
(29:28):
exception of Aaron Cook, whichthey also extricated because
they didn't like his politicsand you find Gareth Brown.
You could find Gareth Brown asa clown show on YouTube, because
somebody sent me a video of himfighting and getting his ass
beat by somebody from somenondescript country, paul Green.
You know he had a minimalcareer.
(29:50):
It did okay, but you got to go.
Do you know how deep you have togo?
How deep you have to run fromthe United States and its
successes to end up in that areato find these two clowns?
And then you're going to sayyou guys expect anything.
The program has beenhistorically run by
non-performers and if you wantany more truth to that, I'll say
(30:13):
it now Look at the currentleadership Running it as a
non-performer, advising them asa non-performer, running the
other part of it as somebodythat didn't even make it to the
leaderboard, forget aboutgetting on the podium.
So by what stretch of theimagination do they have to have
enough egolessness to inviteyou into the room?
(30:33):
How does that happen?
It doesn't happen.
And you know why?
Because at the fundamental coreof everyone, unless they do
martial arts for the rightreasons, is self-interest and
ego.
They bring you in the room.
They matter less.
What they forgot, just like thewoman forgot in the PTA, is
what matters most are and CoachMoreno and I know this because
(30:54):
we taught the program, wedesigned it program, we designed
it athletes first, coach,second, performance first,
results, second, ego last.
Out of all of it, the athleteand results.
The athletes are what matter.
That's why you're there now.
If you don't understand that,that it's time for you to find a
new job, but anyway, I mean, I,I didn't, I didn't want to
(31:15):
mention any names, I think Imean did no, no, no, I mean
listen, I mean TJ, you know, Imean what was built here.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Be great in what year 28 28.
Dominate in 28.
Right.
And they also said we want tobe deep in every field, right In
every division.
And we have three and three,Maybe four and four if you're
lucky.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
But they've done the opposite.
When they close off our Olympicdivisions after someone gets an
Olympic medal, that's where itstarts.
Right there You've alreadyshortcut any kind of Olympic
development pipeline developmentin 67, because you told that
person they can only get second.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Hey, you want to take a bet.
That makes no sense.
You want to take a bet, andagain, this is not.
This is, it's just a bet.
You want to take a bet.
That makes no sense.
You want to take a bet, andagain, this is not, this is,
it's just a bet.
You want to bet on 67?
You want to bet on 67, if theycompete at the World
Championships or not?
Speaker 5 (32:09):
Oh, I don't know, we'll see.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
And again one of my former athletes.
I mean I have a lot of respectfor the family, so nice to me,
so nice to my family, so nice tomy program.
The athlete is an Olympicbronze medalist man.
I watched a little highlight ofher today but I mean I don't
(32:31):
know if she sees 67 again andI'm just being honest, I don't
know.
All right, just had to get thatout there for a second.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
All right, just had to get that out there for a
second Go ahead?
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I don't know, but again, well, I'm going off what
you're saying.
Are they closing off divisionsand stuff like that?
And you know, you had a personthat basically got a runner up
without anybody being in thedivision, cause everybody went
in different areas, areas, andone person stayed there and
became the spot, the B-team spot, did they?
Speaker 5 (33:05):
not have anybody else .
It was only one personregistered for 67?
.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
Oh shit, I didn't know that.
I thought there was a couple ofthem.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
No, if I'm not mistaken, they all kind of moved
around until there was oneperson.
My point is again, I'm notmistaken, they all kind of moved
around until there was oneperson.
So I'm going to make the team.
So I mean.
My point is again I mean I'mnot trying to bag on any person
or anything, because I'm notabout the athlete bagging.
That's ridiculous.
I mean they do their best win,lose or draw.
They bring it to the table allthe time.
(33:32):
But what I'm saying is percategory.
We're not deep.
We're not deep in any category,not 58, not 68, not 80, not
plus 80.
I mean some stronger than theothers.
I think 68, I feel like we havea few, but 80?
Speaker 5 (33:50):
Plus 80?
Other than that, why is that,though?
It's hard for me to imaginehaving as much control, having
that much in resources and stillnot having a room full of
people.
I don't understand.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Well, I actually found your job interview and I
apologize, I don't really meanto share it.
I'm going to have to ask you togo ahead and move your desk
again, so if you could go, aheadand get it as far back against
that wall as possible.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
That would be great.
No, I mean I'm here right now,I'm watching, I mean I can talk
about Brazil because we have areally good situation right now,
but I'm here watching thesekids, I'm watching this dude,
and I'm like, oh my God man,this kid is good, whatever.
And so I asked the coach.
I was like, watching these kids, I'm watching this dude, I'm
like, oh my god man, this kidgood, whatever.
And so I asked the coach aswell what category I think I
(34:42):
know?
And he's like, oh, he's numberthree in 63.
I'm like, oh, he's number two.
I'm like, oh, where's numberone?
He's not here.
He comes in the next next day.
I'm like, holy crap, I thoughtI thought number three was legit
and number two was whoa, andnumber three smokes them all.
(35:05):
And I'm like I'm sorry, numberone I'm like holy crap, holy
crap.
This kid is no joke,unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (35:15):
I want like I want like 30 people in the room.
I need like 30 america?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
you don't think americans do that apparently,
apparently not.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
You did it, we did it at the warehouse, we did moms
at the we had.
We had bodies on bodies onbodies.
Every division guy, girl, big,small, strong, tricky flexible.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Hey, no money, no money, no money no funding all
the more pain to be there.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
That's you know.
I think again, I I understandresource, I understand needing
resource to build in sport andgrow the sport overall, but now
sometimes I feel like most ofthese people do it just to
simply say someone paid for themto go somewhere.
That's the part that bugs me.
It's not, it's not, it's not.
It's what for me, it's what you.
For me, it's what you do withthe resource, like what I would
have gave, given, to have thatmuch resource at that time when
(36:05):
I was coming through.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
So, check gee about that kind of stuff.
Check this out the path to justmade a rule, just made a rule.
I'm not sure it's going tostand up that coaches and
athletes it's a rule, kind ofnot a rule have to go to a
one-week training camp beforethe Pan Am Games to be eligible
to coach or fight, but it's kindof mandatory.
(36:31):
Yeah, the athletes likeeveryone competing.
That's what they say.
They're having this camp, butforget about that you got to pay
for it?
huh, and what if Coach Perez'sGrandmaster Perez's, Hyungnim
Perez's favorite person issupposed to be presenting the
material?
Who's that?
(36:51):
Someone in your state?
Speaker 4 (36:55):
Huh, I wonder who it could be.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Down south.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Huh, I don't know, be Down south.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Huh, I don't know, I don't know, but I'm thinking
about this.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Put it in the chat.
Put it in the chat.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
I'm like I have an Olympic coach that's going to be
going there.
I have an Olympic coach thathas an Olympic medal that's
going to be going there and I'mlike he's supposed to learn from
this coach.
I'm not quite for seven days.
Speaker 5 (37:26):
You said someone in California.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Hold on.
Where's my chat?
Where's the chat box in thisjoint?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Right there, man, I just hit it.
You got to put it up Set asecret chat.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
It's okay, man I mean .
Speaker 2 (37:39):
it's okay, man, I mean just tell him, give me an
initial.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
I'm not putting it on him because he's just doing his
job.
He's just doing what he's beinghired to do.
But if I'm a coach, diegoRibero, he's an Olympic bronze
medal coach.
He's been to two Olympic games.
He's world championships, panAm Games.
He's an Olympic bronze medalcoach.
He's been to two Olympic games.
He's world championships, panAm Games.
He's done everything at asenior level, at an Olympic
level, at a Grand Prix level.
(38:05):
He's supposed to go for sevendays for some Patu person to
tell him what to do.
Like that's a requirement, likewhat are we doing, man?
And I know I don't know.
Sorry, that was an offbeatchange of so?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
no, it's not that you got it like so you know, as
many people know, we designedand ran the program for usa
taekwondo to develop athletes,coaches and whatever.
We've talked about this before.
But if you're going to bring ahigh level coach, or even an
amateur coach or a wannabe coachin a room, you better have some
content to offer.
Right so?
But most recently, I did the um, wmtu, whatever it was called
(38:52):
certifications, before it wasabsconded by the usa, whatever
they call themselves cookie,cookie dough you better and so
with that, said the um, we madecontent.
So I go to this thing and I'mlike, all right, I see what
they're gonna present.
And I said, all right, let me,let me actually present some
(39:12):
content, that kind of matters,and so people can actually learn
something.
And we did that with ourcontent.
Now we didn't have thebrightest bunch in the room, you
know.
We had a lot of guys who hadgotten organizational knowledge
from.
You know, my favorite was thisguy from uh somewhere and he
goes somewhere where tj, tj is,and he goes.
(39:32):
Ah, he calls me up and I'mrunning the program, I'm seeing
you, and he goes.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
I don't understand why we got to take this course
and we got to learn this.
I have six degrees of blackbelt given to me by Master Kim
and Master Kim and I don't knowwhat periodization is and I
don't know why we're talkingabout women's menstrual cycles.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
And I listened to this guy on the phone and I
remember to this day and I go,sir, you are a poster child for
my program.
Please come in the room and sitdown and learn.
And there was another guy, juanwas there.
There was a coach from colorado.
I can't remember his namebecause he, to be honest, never
did anything, didn't matter, butin his mind he did.
(40:16):
And he, we say are there anyquestions?
And there's like 90 coaches inthe room and he stands up and he
says I don't understand why wehave to.
And I was certified.
And I did.
And I go, sir, we couldn'tfigure out who got gifted
certification.
So everybody, including jimmy,kim and us, we took the course,
blah, blah.
So I finally go to the guy.
I go, can I ask you a question?
(40:37):
What I said?
How many people have you put onthe national team?
He goes, what does that have todo with anything?
I said I'm just curious.
How many people have you put ona national team?
He, he said none, I go.
Great.
I said how many people have yousent to the us team trials?
What, what, what does that haveto do with anything?
I go, I'm just curious.
(40:57):
None, I go great.
I said.
How many of your students wonthe state championships?
What do you mean?
None, I go great, I said.
As Herb Perez, owner of GoldMedal Martial Arts, it is thank
you.
Please, keep doing what you'redoing.
You're perfectly engineered forthe results you're getting and,
(41:20):
by the way, you make it easierfor my guys to beat yours.
As her Perez, ceo of high leveltraining, it's my hope that
you'll sit down and learnsomething now.
Sit down and so, of course, youknow this is back in the early
days of the internet.
You know people had keyboardsand they're all like, oh, he was
so mean.
No, that's, that's honest.
Look at the results.
So, usa Taekwondo,congratulations.
(41:43):
You are perfectly engineeredfor the results you're getting.
The last medalist you had in anOlympic Games is on this
podcast, and one of the firstmedalists you had in the Olympic
Games is on this podcast.
And then the other one, me, isright in the middle.
But congratulations, usaTaekwondo, you are perfectly.
(42:06):
Oh, we got the Pope.
Pope, leo, did he pick?
Speaker 4 (42:09):
his name yet.
Is that what?
Speaker 2 (42:11):
he's going to call himself.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Pope Leo after Lionel Messi.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
I thought it was going to be Pete Zabala.
I was really in, but anyway.
So what I'm saying is you know,at some point America hasn't
learned its lesson, and when itlearns, that's a matter a little
bit right.
Speaker 5 (42:25):
What's that?
I see all these other countries, all these other countries work
with their past Olympians,their past people that are
somehow involved in the systemand keep building the system
because they were close to thesystem.
And like I just just like, likeyou said, it makes no sense.
You, you have a, you havepeople that were at the olympic
games and been through theentire process, and you've
systematically found a way toexclude them all and then and
(42:48):
then like, like, like all ofthem, though, all of them like,
like every single person that'sgot an olympic medal has left
the program has exited thebuilding.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
It's not even I, me, to be honest, it's too easy to
make it about us or them oranyone else, but we're not
saying about us or them, I'mjust saying facts the ones that
didn't win are there, though.
Oh yeah yeah, the losers are inthe room and they're running it.
That's just the truth.
On the other side of it, though, I'm not even going to make it
(43:17):
about anyone in particular, I'mjust going to make it about
systems.
Name one professional team, onethat doesn't fire the guys who
don't perform, Just one One.
They don't fire the athletes,they don't fire the coaches.
I guess my question how do theyconvince people.
Speaker 5 (43:34):
I mean, clearly they've convinced the USOC or
USOPC or who XYZ the tech windowguys that they're successful
because they still got money.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
The CEO still gets paid more money.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I don't understand.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
You've hit another, so we got to be successful right
.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Here's the real.
Are we successful?
No, the USOPC isn't payingattention.
There's no way.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
Dude they're not paying attention.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
There's no way.
They don't have anybody in theroom that's paying attention.
No one in the room is payingattention.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
There's no one in the room no, no, they're not.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
You know why?
Because the truth is, usataekwondo is not meddling.
The only reason the usopcwhatever usoc, usopc, whatever
it's called these days iskeeping them in the room is they
have to, they're an olympicsport, and in the room because
they have to.
They're an Olympic sport.
And in the off chance that theymight medal, that's a medal.
Compare it to swimming's medals50 medals.
So, usopc, as long as they'renot doing anything illegal or
(44:30):
wrong, they're just like theydon't care about the medal we're
like curling, we're likebadminton, we're like pentathlon
.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
No, we're like curling, we're like badminton,
we're like um pentathlonpentathlon no, we're better than
pentathlon.
Speaker 5 (44:42):
I was around pentathlon guys, I was.
No, they're not payingattention to that.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
They have yeah, they don't.
Speaker 5 (44:48):
Even we're like to their national teams, like they
just show up and like they'rethe national team, like it's not
the same, like it's a.
I think I get your point, butthat don't don't make me cry.
That would be, that would be aterrible comparison.
That would be a terriblecomparison telling you, but but
don't make me cry, that would bea terrible comparison.
That would be a terriblecomparison.
I don't know.
I remember being a part of thefunding meetings when it came to
Olympic medals and how much Iremember the athletes being in
the room when they're telling ushow many medal predictions that
(45:10):
we're supposed to get, and Iremember being upset at that
meeting because I remember itwas me, paige, stephen and Diana
in the uh in the room and theytold us that they predicted us
to get uh, was it?
Two medals and obviously, beingwho I was at the time and who
we were at the time, theyweren't talking about me or
Paige.
And again for me, that thatstung me big and I'm like there
(45:34):
was no way.
I was like that's why we don'tget any money, cause that's got
it like.
So I remember being a part ofthose conversations.
I just it just doesn't makesense to me.
What is this?
Speaker 3 (45:46):
what is that oh?
Speaker 5 (45:48):
it's cool looking.
It's cool looking.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Hell yeah, dude, I want to go like cyborg stuff,
yeah, but that's, that's that'smarketing, right, so that's
marketing.
So she, you know, she thecoolest one, but the better one
was the guy who was fromKazakhstan or something and he
looked like a guy.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
What's that?
Speaker 5 (46:10):
We can't see it.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Is that your daily walk ring?
Are these your steps for today?
Bro, these are my shooting man.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Oh nice 10 meters.
Speaker 5 (46:22):
I see it now.
I see it now.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Y'all are going to recognize man.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Dude, I'm not even sure I would give you a gun.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Shit.
I carry my gun every time.
I go Everywhere, not here.
Speaker 5 (46:36):
Not out there.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
But in Miami I do.
Anyway, listen, I know we'regoing around in circles and
stuff like that, but I'm just,you know, going back to what I
said, just listen, I try to dothe right thing, I try to reach
out, I try to make conversationsand just to be shunned or just
not even acknowledged is just, Ithink, unacceptable on a
(46:57):
professional level.
You not even acknowledge isjust, I think, unacceptable on a
professional level.
You don't like me.
You don't like me, I'm a jerk.
I'm a jerk, I'm too much, I'mtoo much, but just on a
professional level.
Because TJ, you said it, orHerbie, you know, because you
put me in a room with somebodythat I basically threatened.
But I've worked with people thatI don't personally like on a
personal level, but on aprofessional level.
Just like you said, tj, I wentto work every freaking day.
(47:19):
I, you know, bit my knuckle andwe got some stuff done together
.
Whether we liked each other ornot, we got some stuff together.
And you know what?
To be honest with you, we foundout that when it came to the
sport, we had a lot more incommon than we didn't, and and
that was some.
That was some some hard times.
Those were some not fun times,me and my co-worker we could
(47:43):
probably both admit that but wegot some good shit done, man and
results.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
And results.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
And I'm just saying at the end of the day, here we
are, we should be better 15years later.
Speaker 5 (47:57):
We should be better and we're not injection and this
guy just went up there with hisregular prescription glasses.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
He's a gangster, this is a gangster, oh yeah won a
silver medal, but if you thinkhe had?
Speaker 5 (48:10):
just a dude who watched john wick movies to the
olympics.
Think again dikic is actuallycompeting in his fifth Olympic,
not crazy it was a G, yeah, butanyway.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
So I mean not to you know again.
I think we have to get to aplace at some point where we
talk about solutions, and notbecause we're trying to give
them solutions, because itdoesn't really matter.
I think we have to go back to afundamental question of what's
in the best interest of theorganization, what's in the best
interest of the young?
You all teach young athletes,you all teach young athletes.
(48:45):
I do what is it?
Easy, easy.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
First and foremost, you have to get true buy-in.
People have to feel likethey're involved and that they
are respected enough to beintegrated into the system.
Listen, whatever you guys wantto say, the peak performance
model, there's a boss.
It's me, it's my name, it's mybrand.
But TJ, coach Lee, coach Brad,coach Sinopio, coach Russell,
(49:11):
coach Mark, coach Bisbaugh,coach Martin, coach Lallone,
coach Jenkins, all those guysare valued.
Coach Tom, coach Tim, they'reall valued, they all have their
place.
We get together and we worktogether and we bring them in.
And all the people I just toldyou and I'm excluding TJ, and
(49:31):
it's not a bad thing they werenobodies but they came in and
they fit into a program and theybecame somebody Every name that
I just mentioned, every singleone of them.
But they came in and they fitinto a program and they became
somebody.
They've all, every name that Ijust mentioned, every single one
of them have produced junior orcadet, cadet junior and some
senior national teams, someworld champions.
I haven't produced a worldchampion me, but one of my
(49:54):
coaches produced a worldchampion.
So all of them felt wanted,felt needed.
You have to get buy-in, truebuy-in, and this organization
does not have true buy-in.
They have some people that comein because they get something,
because they get a, a positionor a title, but there's not true
(50:15):
buy-in.
If there was true buy-in, therewould be freaking 30 people at
that organization, 30 people onthat academy team.
Tj, you said it before.
You're right.
There was a time where we had aroom very deep I don't want to
go into numbers Very deep butthere is not true buy-in.
(50:35):
There is not a coach that cansit there and go.
I'm going to give my kid overthere.
They don't do it.
They do it because they thinkthat's all they have to do it.
I'm saying what's real and youguys know it.
You guys know it.
I told you guys.
Last week on the podcast, I hadtwo coaches come up to me and
both of them said you're sayingwhat everybody is thinking.
(50:56):
You're saying what everybody isthinking.
You're saying what everybodywants to say and it's the truth.
If it was true buy-in, theywouldn't be begging people to
come out there.
People would be knocking on thedoors to come out there and
they're not.
It would be easy, right?
Tell me I'm wrong.
Speaker 5 (51:09):
Tell me I'm wrong.
It should be easy.
It should be easy, it should besimple, it should be desired.
Again, I don't know if it's alack of, like you said and this
is not pinpoint I don't know ifit's a lack of desire or a lack
of understanding how or what orwhen.
But you didn't tell me youcan't pack that room.
You can't tell me, evenhistorically, you can't tell me
(51:33):
was this eight years deep intothis program, or how many ever
years they've been here thatwe're not packing the room at
this point?
Speaker 3 (51:39):
That's a great point Five years, four years.
You guys haven't spread yourgospel enough that people aren't
banging down your doors.
Young, you said it, fire themIf you can't do it in two years,
three years, four years, fiveyears go.
You failed, you failed, am Iwrong?
Am I years?
(51:59):
Three years, four years, fiveyears go.
You're.
You failed, you failed, am Iwrong?
Speaker 2 (52:03):
am I wrong?
You're right, but I meanthey've gotta, like you know,
they people have to when it'senough, when people have had
enough, it'll be enough.
Right now, it's not enough Ifeel bad.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
I mean it's gotta be enough let me say this I do not
feel good talking like this, butit's the truth.
It's the truth.
I mean, tell me I'm wrong.
Tell me I'm wrong.
In seven years, you can't buildsomething bigger than what you
built.
Speaker 5 (52:29):
Don't tell me, we don't talk like this.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
Don't tell me we had, we had one result, we had this,
we had that.
Don't tell me that.
Stop that.
You know we we had this, we hadthat.
Don't tell me that.
Stop that we got a medal at theworld championships, a medal at
the Olympics.
That's not.
You haven't built growth, youhaven't, you just haven't.
And it's been five-plus years,more than that, and that's just
(52:53):
not acceptable.
And Herb, you're right.
And Herb you're right In anybusiness, any stretch of
professional sporting, if youhaven't done it, you're gone.
I mean NFL coaches get threeyears, two years by third year.
Guys that won the NBAchampionships in Denver one year
out, they fired them.
Speaker 5 (53:17):
One year.
So just to be clear, that's thething.
This, this is not success, butit's being sold as success.
It's being sold as we aresomehow in the midst of the game
, petitioning for first orsecond.
We're not, we're not, we're.
We're part of the game, I guess.
But again, I mean, I'm just, I'mjust being honest, no yeah
there's, there's, there, there,we should again, after talking
(53:39):
about the training camps, theyare talking about the following
they understand everybody'ssystem is different but, like
you know, we, we should bebigger than this.
And if this is, if you go, wegot four people, four guys and
four girls, and those are onesin the room, and all the money
and resources when we look backas being spent on these four
guys or four girls, they shouldall be rock stars.
They all gotta be goldmedalists they all got to be.
Olympic gold medals at thatpoint, with that much money.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
They all got to be Olympic gold medals.
Either that or move on.
I did find the director of highperformance, so that's a
little-known Sherman Spinksvideo, but anyway, know hard to
find those between himproselytizing, you know, and his
(54:23):
mixed messages, you know.
He's got to talk to the newPope.
The Pope's got to help redirectthat guy's energy.
But you know, I again I want toat some point we'll focus more
on.
I mean, we called it anevolution, a revolution,
whatever you want to call it areinvention, but it's got to be
deconstructed because right nowit's not working.
(54:45):
And I don't really care aboutwhy it's not working, because
the why at this point doesn'tmatter.
You really don't have a choice.
But you have to change.
You're listening to someBrazilian.
What do you?
Got over there.
Did you hear that?
Tj?
Speaker 5 (55:02):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (55:03):
It was like.
Speaker 3 (55:09):
It was Uzbekistani.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Oh, that was Uzbekistani.
Shares a commonality withPortuguese.
Speaker 3 (55:16):
Actually, it shares a commonality with Turkish and
whatever Azerbaijan language.
It's very close.
I just learned that and I don'treally know myself but, it's
pretty interesting.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
I think the next show we might have somebody on, or I
think it's time to starttalking about solutions.
I would invite Patrice fromMark on because he's doing a
bunch of stuff, but to be honest, I can't understand Patrice all
the time on videos.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
Oh, look at this guy that handsome devil.
I'm speaking.
You want to know something.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
I'm looking this right now and I see the poster
behind TJ's face.
Oh my God, there's a similaritythere.
There's a similarity.
There's a similarity.
Let's strike a pose.
Speaker 5 (56:06):
Hold on.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
All right.
Well, we've taken enough ofyour time.
We're almost at an hour today.
Anything else for the good ofthe order?
Yes, sir.
Speaker 5 (56:14):
We can keep talking about this for another hour.
If you want, I'm listening.
Yes, sorry not.
Speaker 3 (56:17):
I'm listening.
Can I say something?
Yes, sorry, not sorry, mf.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
There you go.
Sorry, not sorry, and that isour theme song and you got to
listen.
I'm going to release the fullversion of it soon.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
Congratulations to the new Pope from Chi-Town Yep.
He's a Cubs fan.
Represent.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Let's go, baby, let's go.
May the new post reign inglorious and frivolous and
fratless.
Speaker 4 (56:49):
Be careful, I'm going to keep it.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
Take it easy Hold on, let me move over a little bit.
Speaker 3 (56:55):
You better take it easy, old boy.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
Best of with that papa Look, my mic disappeared.
Speaker 4 (57:01):
Voila.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
That's like magic TJ.
Anything for the good of theorder.
Speaker 5 (57:06):
Magic, I'm good.
I'm good, all right, I can seeyour nipples.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
Keep your nipples hard.
I can still see them.
This has been the Warehouse 15.
Hold on.
If we're going to be doing that, hold on, hold, house 15.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
Hold on If we're going to be doing that hold on,
Hold on yeah baby, that is 65.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
That is what 65 looks like.
You want me to take my clothesoff?
No, I was listening verycarefully both of your
descriptions of your massages,so I'm calling SafeSport as soon
as this podcast is over.
Speaker 3 (57:35):
I think you guys have a claim.
They fired the.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
SafeSport claim they fired the safe sport guys.
They fired the guys.
They fired them all.
They fired them all becausethey were doing a horrible job.
I just heard, just recently.
I just heard, anyway, the clownshow over there is over too,
gentlemen we're out Deuces LaterPeace.
I'm Terrence, run to the scene.
No thrill, I'm sorry, not sorry, ain't it funny?
I repeat on the track my sisterill Advise opinions maybe, but
facts ain't lies, it's coldmetal mentality.
Watch the sunrise 1F1, I'mcheckin' in.
So we're sittin' pretty.
Still mean.
Second best in the world.
Get witty.
Face down to Ponyx, pressurecookin' hot.
Gave my sweat, my focus,everything I got TJ Grimes, tj
(00:23):
holding down the bronze Stood onthe stage.
I fought.
The giants turned the new page,learned to discipline, focused
respect for the fight, my fight,my life was something I knew.
Vitality deep in the sun, oneof two.
I'm, in reality, just me.
I still need to be up in thebox.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
There's something in this, somethinged from the
building.
There was black smoke once.
Then there's white smoke.
I am proud to announce thatJuan Compapa, papa Diana Moreno
is not the Pope, but, moreimportantly, I think it's
finally time for TJ.
Tj not the Pope either, anddefinitely not me, but we have a
new Pope and he is.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Robert Francis Prevost from the USA.
We'll see.
If I'm not mistaken, it's thefirstost from the USA, we'll see
.
If I'm not mistaken, it's thefirst pope from America ever.
Just because of that, I'm goingto say Robert.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
There's a chance that he's going to take the name of
John, which is my middle name,and of course, everybody knows
that Juan, besides being Spanishfor Goma Mielda, is John in
Spanish.
So TJ is back in his bat lairwith his joker background, and
(01:51):
so when you're watching thevideo, if you're watching this
on on youtube, just look to theright.
He is the dark spot in themidst of the white spot behind
him so you can see him.
But again, welcome everybody.
This is the warehouse.
We'll start with our usualdisclaimer sorry, not sorry, not
(02:11):
sorry and if you listen to ournew song.
We got a new song up on youtube.
It's getting an amazing amountof hits.
I was shocked to see how many.
Hopefully those sponsorshipchecks will start running in.
This is him, no dude, that'sthe real that's the real pope.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
That's the pope.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, that's the pope I'm not talking about the pope
not the pope of greenwichvillage.
That's the real pope triviafact who was the pope of
greenwich village village?
No say eric roberts, eric,roberts, eric.
No say Eric Roberts, ericRoberts, eric Roberts.
He took my finger.
All right, I could find thatfor you later.
(02:50):
All right, gentlemen, tj,what's going?
Speaker 5 (02:52):
on, please.
What's going on sir?
Chilling, chilling, just alwaysexcited for Thursdays.
It's my therapy on Thursdays,thursday therapy.
Get to sit here and talk withyou guys talk about Taekwondo.
So as always, I'm excited.
What's going on with you?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Not much Just waiting .
Coach, what's going on with?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
you Listen, I'm in Uzbekistan and I just I would.
First of all, this is a veryMuslim country.
They practice Islam and I wentto a Catholic church here.
It was amazing.
This picture was up there andit's just kind of for me.
It's kind of I'm a Catholic, soit's pretty neat that I'm here
(03:31):
and all of a sudden they justelected the new Pope.
My wife just told me literallya couple seconds ago.
So it's pretty awesome.
But yeah, I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Oh, your wife told you, I thought you knew that.
I thought you knew that, Ithought you knew that we were
texting back and forth.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
She told me it was coming with white smoke.
I didn't even know.
And then I said, as soon as youfind out, let me know.
So she just texted me.
But listen in honor of Okay,okay, okay, okay, All right.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I just wanted, now that I figured out how to work
it, you know we messed up thatis.
That is the pope of greenwichvillage and that's eric roberts
with mickey roberts I'm not done.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I got a couple things .
I gotta give a shout out to myman, don lewis, for my adult
beverage.
I gotta give a shout out to myman, dr steve caberron, from my
Korean ramen in Wachimokot inUzbekistan.
And this is just some Pringles.
Speaker 5 (04:29):
So yeah, did they send you a care package or
something?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
No man, I'm just like here just winging it.
Let's go.
Just winging it huh, I'm readyto go.
Today, I feel a little likesomething you guys did, we talk
since you guys had test matchesthere.
How's that?
How was that?
Whoa, wait a minute.
My wife is awesome.
She just texted me homeboysfrom shytown.
(04:53):
Let me give that.
Folks up there right there,chicago, illinois pope, what do
you know about that?
You guys don't know nothingabout that that.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
That is crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Chicago Pope.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
I'm not going to hear the end of it.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah man, my wife just texted me right now, I had
no idea he's from Illinois,Chicago, Illinois.
Hold up here, he is right here.
Look my man.
My man's a G boy.
Look at this guy Represent.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I've actually found some footage of the new Pope.
I don't know how I do this.
I'm so good.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Leon.
Speaker 5 (05:33):
He's 69 years old.
I'll respond a little bit toJane.
I said it was some problem withthe paperwork and.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Stop, bro, don't be messing around with me, man.
Right now the pope is elected.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Man, you're a sacrilegious anyway, just
letting you know, just lettingyou know, alright, so whatever
that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
That's amazing, I'm happy, yeah, so how?
Speaker 5 (06:03):
how are the test matches?
Speaker 3 (06:06):
listen, test matches were great.
We, um, we had them, uh, twodays ago.
These guys are like first classman.
They, they brought in three,three, we had three rings.
They brought in referees.
Um, we had a holding area, theyhad match numbers.
It was everything.
I was like, holy crap, they'relike yo match number one's up.
We're like, oh my gosh, theydid a good job of giving us a
(06:29):
couple different variety ofpeople.
The referees were on point.
They let us fight.
We did really well.
I mean, we dropped a couple,but we won a lot more than we
lost.
And I was a little surprisedbecause, watching the level, it
goes to show you that justbecause you train well doesn't
(06:49):
mean that you compete well, andI think we can all attest to
that.
These guys really train well.
But some of we have a goodgroup of, you know, kids here
and I say kids because they'rekids to me.
Um, we have some olympians, wehave some olympic medalists and
we have some new kids and wewere really good, we were really
strong and we had some goodbattles.
(07:09):
You know, like I said, we wewanted some close ones.
We we lost some close ones, butthe energy was great.
They had a, you know, I toldyou guys they have um, they told
me they have nine coaches onstaff for the senior team, and
then there was probably anotherthree or four other coaches that
I hadn't seen.
Speaker 5 (07:26):
Are those all like, uh, are those all paid positions
?
Or you know, all those likefull, like all nine paid?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
coaches, nine paid coaches, nine paid coaches for
the senior team, for the seniorteam, and while we were here,
they had a junior program andthey invited me to go watch.
It was two and hours away Iprogram and they invited me to
go watch.
It was two and hours away.
I was like, um, they had arussian team, they had a
bulgarian team, they had a uh, Ican't remember.
(07:51):
They had four teams here andthey were.
They had a training camp withthe juniors and I was like holy
cow, I mean super nice man.
They invited us to, uh, moscowfor a training camp, in training
camp in August to bring ourjunior team.
Super nice, that's cool.
Yeah, super, super nice, superaccommodating.
But to answer your pointdirectly, tj, the tennis match
(08:14):
was great.
It was rowdy, it was reallyconflicting.
Not conflict, everyone's there.
The coaches are walking aroundthe ring.
It wasn't like you were sittingin quiet.
People are like yelling andjust really getting in there.
You know, I'm going to say formyself, for the first couple
rounds I was just kind ofsitting back and talking, but by
(08:36):
the end I'm walking around thering and I'm doing interviews
with national TV and then I'mlike, you know, yelling and
stuff like that.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
It was really fun.
We had a great time.
It was awesome.
That's cool.
That's cool and that was um.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
you said that was um how many matches you did, like
three or four matches eachperson, or yeah, we're getting
three matches.
It depended on the divisionsand stuff like that.
We're getting three.
Speaker 5 (09:02):
What is that?
That's cool.
You should have told him.
You should have never told themit wasn't working.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I just wanted to share footage we had found of
the actual event.
Y'all can't jump.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
So, but anyway.
Speaker 5 (09:16):
Yeah, that's cool, though that's dope.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
I mean we had a lot of people, man, I mean between
our athletes, and I didn't saythis.
China showed up on Monday with25 deep.
I was like holy cow and allthey want to do is fight.
It's funny because we're doingdrills and they do well, but
I've heard the coach tomorrow'sfine, tomorrow's fine,
tomorrow's fine.
All they want to do is fight.
(09:40):
So we matched up well with themand they have their one, two
Olympians here, you, one olympicsilver medalist and stuff like
that.
So they brought some.
It's a club, team, clubs.
Did you go fight in that, that,that world cup in ouija, or
that that place is all muslim inchina?
Speaker 5 (09:59):
you did I thought yes , yes, yeah, yeah, yeah that's
where they're from.
That's where they're from ohshoot Okay, the team that came
in.
Yep, yep, Okay okay, okay, thatwas a crazy tournament.
I like that format.
That was the one where theWorld Cup, you had to fight the
full match to take the point.
So it was Olympic divisions, Ithink right, olympic weight
divisions, or was it five.
(10:20):
I feel like there was like afifth division or something
weird, right?
Anyways, you had to fight thewhole match to win the spot.
That was the same year.
I think Spain won the World Cupthat year while we were there
and they ended up winning theWorld Cup when we were in China.
They got to the finals and wonthat one.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
What do you mean?
You had to fight the full match.
What does that mean?
Speaker 5 (10:40):
So 58, you had to fight three rounds.
Whoever won that match in thatdivision, you got one point for
that group and then 68 went andyou got one point for that group
.
It was the best finish out ofthe.
I think it was five divisions,I think it was, yeah, some 54
maybe and then some otherdivisions, but whatever it was
best.
Three out of five matches tookthe win for the whole overall
(11:00):
match and you fought through thewhole thing and some days, like
I think the first day, wefought at like nine in the
morning and then the next day wedidn't fight till like that's
crazy 6 pm, 5 pm again.
You don't realize how fastthose bruises set in when you
got to wake up and do it again.
It's weird because you do itevery day at training but at the
competition.
I remember getting back to thehotel after that, uh, first day
and I was fine, but in themorning I woke up and it was
(11:22):
like little bruises like my heel, my wrist, my elbow, and then
we had to wait until 6 pm againto fight and I think the last
day was back in the afternoon atsome time.
It was definitely an interestingevent.
I like that format.
I like that format better forWorld Cups than the tag team
stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
to be honest, it's funny you say that because the
bruises said it was a little cut.
I mean a little kind of oldschool, right, a little old
school kind of fighting.
Pretty cool Look at this guys,I'm going to show you something,
hold on.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I'm not saying that, I'm just chatting.
I'm not saying it out loud, butthat is pretty funny.
Speaker 5 (11:58):
Oh yeah, I know, it was what the hell?
Oh, that was your name.
I like acupuncture.
I miss acupuncture.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
First time ever.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
It's so amazing.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
I never did it, it was you.
Speaker 5 (12:08):
That's crazy.
I never did it.
You've done fire cuffs though.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Never did it.
Speaker 5 (12:13):
Like the what I did, the old school fire cuffs where
they throw the match inside andeverything and it goes so listen
, did my first.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I've had massages my whole.
I've had massages all the timeand people have told me
sportsman.
So because we're doing twotrainings a day, the olympic
committee sent a masseuse herealong with our pt guy and this
old man named julio.
He's unbelievable, this dude,because my he did uh, no, stop,
(12:49):
stop, it's magic.
Hey, I never had a.
This guy killed me, but like Icould move, all of a sudden,
inflammation was gone.
Today he did me so, like somany places, like I have bruises
I bet you do stop.
Speaker 5 (13:08):
Yeah, they hurt, though, like in the process,
they're like painful I hate whenthey get when they start doing
it with, like their elbows andstuff, that's when it gets crazy
.
Like the, the point their elbow, like right on the muscle we're
trying to release it is, isnuts.
I'm a wimp, that's's crap Hurt.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I don't get massages and I don't do jujitsu.
I don't do that stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
First of all, we got to come back here.
The place is everyone's sofriendly, it's so clean, it's so
safe, it's so cheap and thetraining.
It reminds me of Korea, backaback in the day.
It really does I mean they'reso clean they're, but they train
hard, they don't, they don'tcomplain it.
(13:54):
It's really really uhimpressive.
Um, I'm I didn't know what toexpect.
I didn't hope it would be good,but it's it far exceeded my
expectations.
It's really really that good.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
So you know good, the one thing that's amazing about
taekwondo is um, when you gosomewhere where you have a true
taekwondo culture and then itmixes with the indigenous
culture, whatever that might beum, and they share values and
the way they do things.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
I'll bring my guys over here.
I'll bring all my Brazil people.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Hey, Beshka, Beshka hey coach what's up?
How you guys doing Nice good tosee you.
There's my guy right there.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Come here.
Come here.
This is my technical director.
This is our coach, the ChinoOlympic bronze medalist.
This is Enrique.
He's Olympian.
This is Enrique, he's anOlympian.
This is Guilherme.
He's going to the Junior Pan AmElena Champions.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
Campeones.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
This is Pan Am Games gold medalist, an Olympian.
This is Maria Clara Olympian.
So yeah, these are my peoples.
Nice to see you all.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I know they can't hear us, but tell them.
We said Buen Provecho.
Speaker 5 (15:09):
Yeah they're so cool, man, they're so nice.
But anyway, what are we talkingabout today?
No, I was um, but I was uhthinking about just talking
about the stuff you were talkingwith the training camps and
training styles and stuff likethat, and just kind of go off of
that.
You know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (15:18):
well, um, speaking of training camps, I'm here and
one of my athletes actually justwent to michael, not michael
rodriguez, he's a national teamathlete.
He went out to the academy todo some test matches.
I guess they um offered him tocome for a week, paid him full
blah, blah, blah and um uh, he'sgonna give me some updates and
(15:40):
training and you know these kindof things.
And ah, I'm going to start bysaying this I reached out to two
people.
Now I'm gonna call them bynames because I'm tired of not.
I reached out ahead of time tosherman nelson, the director of
affairs yeah, I, you know, I Ireached out on a personal level
(16:03):
as the home coach and zeroresponse.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I reached out to.
He has a better record than you, right?
So he doesn't have to respondto you.
You're his junior.
Go ahead, I'm sorry, Iapologize.
Not even he's forgotten histaekwondo manners a long time
ago.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
I just again, you can't be that busy.
And so, anyway, kind of goingback.
Um, I reached out to the headcoach directly.
Um had a conversation with himat the olympic games.
Um, he approached me.
It was very cordial.
I think I talked about this atone point.
Um, then he said juan, if youever have anything, just contact
me directly.
(16:42):
So I did.
I asked them specifically a fewquestions, made a couple
requests and nothing.
Gareth Brown, you can't say okay, no, screw you, go to hell, I
don't care, you can't doanything In this day and age.
(17:06):
I refuse to believe that you donot have your phone with you
and you had to have seen my textmessage.
It's the most direct line ofcommunication with everybody.
So it's a little bit of a gripe.
Because I went to the two headpeople.
I'm not saying I'm somebody,but I'm definitely not nobody.
(17:26):
You know who I am.
And my guy went there.
Contrary to what you guysthought, I allowed my guy to go
there.
I encouraged my guy to go there, be there, have fun, do
whatever, and you guys can'teven respond to me.
Tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'mout of line here, am I?
(17:50):
I don't know.
I don't know, maybe I'm-.
Speaker 5 (17:52):
Nah, because they make time to respond to people
they want to respond to.
It doesn't make any sense.
If you're reaching out Again,we can talk, pedigree, we can
talk.
Why you'd want to have aconversation?
We could talk.
Why you'd want to have aconversation with a coach that
has their athlete up theretraining like why, why would
that not be open line ofcommunication?
Isn't that what this wholething is about?
Right?
Isn't that what they've been?
You know what they preach?
Speaker 3 (18:12):
isn't that what we talk about.
That's right.
They're preaching transparencyand in working relationships.
And again I I don't know ifthey called any other guys.
I mean, what do they got outthere?
They got three guys.
They got Johnny Healy, they gotCJ and they got Kafani and I
think Will Cunningham is goingout there.
So you have three for sure,maybe four, and you got one
(18:34):
other guy.
There's only one other guy, soyou got five people max.
You got an African there thatlives in the area, that comes in
trains too, for what I have noidea, but you got three to four
american athletes and anotherone's coming.
You can't respond, you can't.
You can't humor me at all.
I'm that much of an assholethat you can't talk to me like
(18:57):
what the heck, what the heck manI'm sorry, it's just didn't
tell you.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
But didn't he tell you, but didn't he tell you to
reach out to him and talk to himif you had any issues?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
then it wasn't like Olympic Games I had said
something to somebody and heliterally came to me and, like I
told you guys, I have not hadmany conversations with him, but
it was purely professional andvery nice.
I I give him a lot of creditand respect for that and he told
me you got something, come tome.
And I talked to him before,after the team trials, and he
(19:24):
had texted me a little, so Ithought if I said something he
would respond back Again.
Yes, no, maybe so, but nothing.
Nothing so interesting.
Kind of weird man, kind of sad,a little bit disappointed, to
be honest, with you well, theorganization.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
You know the culture you design for the organization
is designed by its leadership,right and and its leadership.
They've got to decide what theywant to do and what they want
to support and what they thinkmatters.
So it's clear that you know, along time ago, this organization
has forgotten its respectmatrix and it forgot what the
sport was, that they did, whythey did it and who did it.
(20:08):
And so all you don't have tolook that far to figure that out
, because the reality is thepeople in the organization.
You know you got to rememberwhen it started.
It started when they decided toexit all the crooked thieves
and charlatans from the pastincarnation of the organization.
(20:28):
And so when they got rid of allthose people, which was a broad
band of people it was Americans, Koreans, everybody.
You know the names don't reallymatter.
But when they decided to get ridof all of them, they decided
that, in addition to that, theyshould get rid of the traditions
and everything else that we doas a sport.
(20:48):
So they don't.
I mean you should.
The common courtesy of customerservice should happen
regardless, right?
Whether you're whatever.
If you're a high level coachwho's putting people on Olympic
podiums, then it should happen.
Even right, whether you'rewhatever.
If you're a high level coachwho's putting people on olympic
podiums, then it should happen,even more so.
But the idea that they wouldignore olympians and um, but you
know they've rewritten historyin their mind.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
You talked to you talked to them before the camp,
though right like before michaelgoing out there, you had
conversations with them back andforth right after team trials
we kind of went back and forth.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
You know, herb, you bring up a good point about
again.
I'm not even going to sit thereand say you have to speak with
everybody and stuff like that,but there's certain people that
are still within the sport.
They're doing some really goodthings, whether you like it or
not, and to not even conversewith them to not even work with
(21:40):
them.
And again, it soundsself-serving, but TJ is a
perfect example.
Like how is he the only guy,the only Olympic guy that
doesn't even get any love?
Like, how does he not get?
It's been like that.
It's been like that man, Ithink it's because you're black.
It's been like that.
Speaker 5 (21:56):
I think it's because you're black.
It might be.
Who knows that it's been likethat man.
I think it's been like that.
I think it's because you'reblack.
It might be.
Who knows?
You never know it might be it.
Don't make no sense.
I mean I'm, but you give meanother reason.
Give me, give me any reason.
Give me a reason they had, areason they had a reason for
four years, which was bullshit,and it's gone and they always
got a reason no, no, before itwas, I don't want it was I'm not
putting it out there, but youknow what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
They had a little reason that was going on for a
couple years and that obviouslywas bs.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
And now before it was before that.
It was because I knew too manyathletes, and athletes that they
trained with were a part of theteam or too close with, and I
couldn't be up there fortraining, uh, training meanwhile
, those people that they'retalking about don't even exist
in their program anymore.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
Yeah, it's silly.
No, it's silly.
It's always a reason.
It's always a reason.
It's always been a reason.
It's always been a reason.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
I'm in a bad mood right now because I think when
we first started this podcast,we took some bites at some
people and it just keeps puttingits ugly head in front of us
and it's too hard not to take aswing at it.
It's just ridiculous, it's justtoo much.
And are we better right now?
(23:08):
Where are we at More people?
I said this last podcast andone of our former athletes
actually brought this up to methere's more people outside of
the program that seem to bedoing well than inside the
program.
What does that say?
What does that say?
They got all the money.
They got all the resourcesthese videos is crazy.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
Okay, just had a how to share the love show, but but
but seriously give I mean likeyou're not wrong, though it
makes it makes no sense.
It makes no sense.
I've been have you.
When you talk about um, I wasjust talking we were talking
about earlier.
I've been on the junior team,the senior team, the collegiate
team, the world team, the pan amchampionship team, the world
like uh, olympic medalists, agrand prix champion, uh, grand
prix competitors, all everylevel of this game.
(24:06):
That's happened from the timebefore electronics all the way
through now.
I've been a part of in thisorganization and not good enough
, not good and not not goodenough, not good enough, not
good enough, not good enough atall.
No matter what, there's alwaysa reason.
It makes no sense, it makes nosense.
Yeah, other people keep gettingit now, now it's because I guess
, now it's because you know, nowit's because we say what we
(24:27):
want to say.
Now it's because I say what Iwant to say.
That's the reason why they'renot going to work with us,
because we don't like them,right?
It's always been the case,right?
That's always been the reasonthey don't want to work with us
because of who I worked with,who I was next with, who I was a
part of.
What's the difference?
It's the same situation overand over and over again.
It doesn't matter where youstand, it doesn't matter what
you do.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
History repeats itself because, young, I
remember when you were theoutcast.
I remember when you didn't wantto go to the OTC.
I remember when your, yourmaster, your grandmaster, wasn't
in favor with all this stuff.
You know, I know I'm going backnow, but I'm just trying to.
It's weird.
We think we've gotten better,we haven't gotten better.
The same shit happened when youwere doing it, young, and you,
(25:09):
you were that guy.
Well, you're still that guythat throws, you know, bombs
from from left field yeah, youhave to, though.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
So I mean I like I got taken, yeah, but I'm not
even.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
I don't even do that.
Like I have a whole notheraspect to the whole thing, like
you know what I mean, like I letwork be work and let's play
fair.
I mean I've seen relationshipswith people that guarantee like
maybe necessarily don't 100% getalong, you know, but in a
professional standpoint pointthey work together.
I've approached that wholesituation from that direction
from the beginning.
I've talked to you about someof those early conversations
(25:41):
like work is work.
At that point I'm at the.
I'm in the us military coachinga united states team.
The only way we win is if theywin and we couldn't figure out
how to work together because ofwhere I stood before them, who
helped me get to where I was,what team I'm a part of, what
training camps I take my guys toit.
It makes no sense.
It makes no sense.
None of it adds up.
(26:03):
None of it adds up.
It's the same thing, like youjust said.
It's the same thing like youjust said.
They get in their room and theycontrol it as long as they can
control it, and they just let itbe what it is.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
So the question becomes you know, and this is
where organizational managementhappens and matters, right.
So, and you see it at alllevels of different
organizations.
So you know, when I came tothis city, for example, I
decided I wanted to help thecity and so I noticed that a
local PTA we were doing a lot ofwork for schools going in and
teaching and doing stuff.
So this kid comes in and hecan't, they're not going to have
(26:35):
a pizza party because he didn'traise $1.
You had to at least getsponsorship for $1.
So I find this out, I call thePTA and I say how much money do
you need?
And so I'll buy all thet-shirts for all the kids, by
the way, I'll pay for all thepizza parties for the kids, and
(26:56):
it was, I don't know whatever.
And then I wanted to raisemoney for their school for music
instruments, because theycouldn't afford a music program
because the state wasn't payingfor it.
So the woman the goes oh, wejust need two hundred dollars,
three hundred dollars.
So then I realized I'd neverheard anybody refuse money like,
and I said you know, that's thefirst I've ever heard of anyone
(27:18):
refusing money.
Right, like the US OlympicCommittee, we take everybody's
money for donations.
And so I was like then I go,somebody says to me, oh, her son
or daughter goes to the othermartial arts school in town
which is run by this weirdlittle you know fakey made up
Shaolinolin, chinese, japanesekempo karate thing which is big
(27:42):
out here in uh california calleduh ussd, and the guy's like
some petty mobster or something.
And so I was like, okay, um, soI go, I go to the principal, I
go, you know, we're willing topay this, we'll pay for legacy,
we'll get instruments,instruments donated and we'll do
all this thing.
And so instead I realized theorganization because of some
(28:04):
woman who was now not in thetown anymore, by the way, her
jealousy, her pettiness, becausewe had come in and we were a
big imprint.
We had 850 students.
The other school had struggledto have a hundred, the other
school had struggled to have 100.
So that's a PTA.
We fixed our own problem.
We went to another school intown and started donating money
(28:25):
to them and raising money forthem and over 10 years we raised
$1.5 million.
Now, this isn't to talk about meor what we did.
This is to talk about thepettiness of people.
Imagine a woman who's so pettyand has children in the school
system and she doesn't careanything about the other 900
(28:45):
kids in that school.
She cares about her little KungFu wizard, who's seven years
old and goes to a bad school intown.
Well, why would USAT be anydifferent?
Usa Taekwondo doesn't care aboutyou.
They don't care about results.
If they cared about results,they'd have the best and the
brightest in the room, those whohave done it before and, by the
way, are still doing it today.
(29:06):
And I'm not saying bring me inthe room, bring anybody in and
bring whatever, but in whatstretch of the imagination?
I don't want to mention hisname, gareth Brown.
But by what stretch of theimagination do you go out and
dig into the deep hole of theamazing legacy of British
taekwondo which there isn'tanyway, by the way, with the
(29:28):
exception of Aaron Cook, whichthey also extricated because
they didn't like his politicsand you find Gareth Brown.
You could find Gareth Brown asa clown show on YouTube, because
somebody sent me a video of himfighting and getting his ass
beat by somebody from somenondescript country, paul Green.
You know he had a minimalcareer.
(29:50):
It did okay, but you got to go.
Do you know how deep you have togo?
How deep you have to run fromthe United States and its
successes to end up in that areato find these two clowns?
And then you're going to sayyou guys expect anything.
The program has beenhistorically run by
non-performers and if you wantany more truth to that, I'll say
(30:13):
it now Look at the currentleadership Running it as a
non-performer, advising them asa non-performer, running the
other part of it as somebodythat didn't even make it to the
leaderboard, forget aboutgetting on the podium.
So by what stretch of theimagination do they have to have
enough egolessness to inviteyou into the room?
(30:33):
How does that happen?
It doesn't happen.
And you know why?
Because at the fundamental coreof everyone, unless they do
martial arts for the rightreasons, is self-interest and
ego.
They bring you in the room.
They matter less.
What they forgot, just like thewoman forgot in the PTA, is
what matters most are and CoachMoreno and I know this because
(30:54):
we taught the program, wedesigned it program, we designed
it athletes first, coach,second, performance first,
results, second, ego last.
Out of all of it, the athleteand results.
The athletes are what matter.
That's why you're there now.
If you don't understand that,that it's time for you to find a
new job, but anyway, I mean, I,I didn't, I didn't want to
(31:15):
mention any names, I think Imean did no, no, no, I mean
listen, I mean TJ, you know, Imean what was built here.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
Be great in what year 28 28.
Dominate in 28.
Right.
And they also said we want tobe deep in every field, right In
every division.
And we have three and three,Maybe four and four if you're
lucky.
Speaker 5 (31:40):
But they've done the opposite.
When they close off our Olympicdivisions after someone gets an
Olympic medal, that's where itstarts.
Right there You've alreadyshortcut any kind of Olympic
development pipeline developmentin 67, because you told that
person they can only get second.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
Hey, you want to take a bet.
That makes no sense.
You want to take a bet, andagain, this is not.
This is, it's just a bet.
You want to take a bet.
That makes no sense.
You want to take a bet, andagain, this is not, this is,
it's just a bet.
You want to bet on 67?
You want to bet on 67, if theycompete at the World
Championships or not?
Speaker 5 (32:09):
Oh, I don't know, we'll see.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
And again one of my former athletes.
I mean I have a lot of respectfor the family, so nice to me,
so nice to my family, so nice tomy program.
The athlete is an Olympicbronze medalist man.
I watched a little highlight ofher today but I mean I don't
(32:31):
know if she sees 67 again andI'm just being honest, I don't
know.
All right, just had to get thatout there for a second.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
All right, just had to get that out there for a
second Go ahead?
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I don't know, but again, well, I'm going off what
you're saying.
Are they closing off divisionsand stuff like that?
And you know, you had a personthat basically got a runner up
without anybody being in thedivision, cause everybody went
in different areas, areas, andone person stayed there and
became the spot, the B-team spot, did they?
Speaker 5 (33:05):
not have anybody else .
It was only one personregistered for 67?
.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:09):
Oh shit, I didn't know that.
I thought there was a couple ofthem.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
No, if I'm not mistaken, they all kind of moved
around until there was oneperson.
My point is again, I'm notmistaken, they all kind of moved
around until there was oneperson.
So I'm going to make the team.
So I mean.
My point is again I mean I'mnot trying to bag on any person
or anything, because I'm notabout the athlete bagging.
That's ridiculous.
I mean they do their best win,lose or draw.
They bring it to the table allthe time.
(33:32):
But what I'm saying is percategory.
We're not deep.
We're not deep in any category,not 58, not 68, not 80, not
plus 80.
I mean some stronger than theothers.
I think 68, I feel like we havea few, but 80?
Speaker 5 (33:50):
Plus 80?
Other than that, why is that,though?
It's hard for me to imaginehaving as much control, having
that much in resources and stillnot having a room full of
people.
I don't understand.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Well, I actually found your job interview and I
apologize, I don't really meanto share it.
I'm going to have to ask you togo ahead and move your desk
again, so if you could go, aheadand get it as far back against
that wall as possible.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
That would be great.
No, I mean I'm here right now,I'm watching, I mean I can talk
about Brazil because we have areally good situation right now,
but I'm here watching thesekids, I'm watching this dude,
and I'm like, oh my God man,this kid is good, whatever.
And so I asked the coach.
I was like, watching these kids, I'm watching this dude, I'm
like, oh my god man, this kidgood, whatever.
And so I asked the coach aswell what category I think I
(34:42):
know?
And he's like, oh, he's numberthree in 63.
I'm like, oh, he's number two.
I'm like, oh, where's numberone?
He's not here.
He comes in the next next day.
I'm like, holy crap, I thoughtI thought number three was legit
and number two was whoa, andnumber three smokes them all.
(35:05):
And I'm like I'm sorry, numberone I'm like holy crap, holy
crap.
This kid is no joke,unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (35:15):
I want like I want like 30 people in the room.
I need like 30 america?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
you don't think americans do that apparently,
apparently not.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
You did it, we did it at the warehouse, we did moms
at the we had.
We had bodies on bodies onbodies.
Every division guy, girl, big,small, strong, tricky flexible.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Hey, no money, no money, no money no funding all
the more pain to be there.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
That's you know.
I think again, I I understandresource, I understand needing
resource to build in sport andgrow the sport overall, but now
sometimes I feel like most ofthese people do it just to
simply say someone paid for themto go somewhere.
That's the part that bugs me.
It's not, it's not, it's not.
It's what for me, it's what you.
For me, it's what you do withthe resource, like what I would
have gave, given, to have thatmuch resource at that time when
(36:05):
I was coming through.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
So, check gee about that kind of stuff.
Check this out the path to justmade a rule, just made a rule.
I'm not sure it's going tostand up that coaches and
athletes it's a rule, kind ofnot a rule have to go to a
one-week training camp beforethe Pan Am Games to be eligible
to coach or fight, but it's kindof mandatory.
(36:31):
Yeah, the athletes likeeveryone competing.
That's what they say.
They're having this camp, butforget about that you got to pay
for it?
huh, and what if Coach Perez'sGrandmaster Perez's, Hyungnim
Perez's favorite person issupposed to be presenting the
material?
Who's that?
(36:51):
Someone in your state?
Speaker 4 (36:55):
Huh, I wonder who it could be.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Down south.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Huh, I don't know, be Down south.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Huh, I don't know, I don't know, but I'm thinking
about this.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Put it in the chat.
Put it in the chat.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
I'm like I have an Olympic coach that's going to be
going there.
I have an Olympic coach thathas an Olympic medal that's
going to be going there and I'mlike he's supposed to learn from
this coach.
I'm not quite for seven days.
Speaker 5 (37:26):
You said someone in California.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Hold on.
Where's my chat?
Where's the chat box in thisjoint?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Right there, man, I just hit it.
You got to put it up Set asecret chat.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
It's okay, man I mean .
Speaker 2 (37:39):
it's okay, man, I mean just tell him, give me an
initial.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
I'm not putting it on him because he's just doing his
job.
He's just doing what he's beinghired to do.
But if I'm a coach, diegoRibero, he's an Olympic bronze
medal coach.
He's been to two Olympic games.
He's world championships, panAm Games.
He's an Olympic bronze medalcoach.
He's been to two Olympic games.
He's world championships, panAm Games.
He's done everything at asenior level, at an Olympic
level, at a Grand Prix level.
(38:05):
He's supposed to go for sevendays for some Patu person to
tell him what to do.
Like that's a requirement, likewhat are we doing, man?
And I know I don't know.
Sorry, that was an offbeatchange of so?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
no, it's not that you got it like so you know, as
many people know, we designedand ran the program for usa
taekwondo to develop athletes,coaches and whatever.
We've talked about this before.
But if you're going to bring ahigh level coach, or even an
amateur coach or a wannabe coachin a room, you better have some
content to offer.
Right so?
But most recently, I did the um, wmtu, whatever it was called
(38:52):
certifications, before it wasabsconded by the usa, whatever
they call themselves cookie,cookie dough you better and so
with that, said the um, we madecontent.
So I go to this thing and I'mlike, all right, I see what
they're gonna present.
And I said, all right, let me,let me actually present some
(39:12):
content, that kind of matters,and so people can actually learn
something.
And we did that with ourcontent.
Now we didn't have thebrightest bunch in the room, you
know.
We had a lot of guys who hadgotten organizational knowledge
from.
You know, my favorite was thisguy from uh somewhere and he
goes somewhere where tj, tj is,and he goes.
(39:32):
Ah, he calls me up and I'mrunning the program, I'm seeing
you, and he goes.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
I don't understand why we got to take this course
and we got to learn this.
I have six degrees of blackbelt given to me by Master Kim
and Master Kim and I don't knowwhat periodization is and I
don't know why we're talkingabout women's menstrual cycles.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
And I listened to this guy on the phone and I
remember to this day and I go,sir, you are a poster child for
my program.
Please come in the room and sitdown and learn.
And there was another guy, juanwas there.
There was a coach from colorado.
I can't remember his namebecause he, to be honest, never
did anything, didn't matter, butin his mind he did.
(40:16):
And he, we say are there anyquestions?
And there's like 90 coaches inthe room and he stands up and he
says I don't understand why wehave to.
And I was certified.
And I did.
And I go, sir, we couldn'tfigure out who got gifted
certification.
So everybody, including jimmy,kim and us, we took the course,
blah, blah.
So I finally go to the guy.
I go, can I ask you a question?
(40:37):
What I said?
How many people have you put onthe national team?
He goes, what does that have todo with anything?
I said I'm just curious.
How many people have you put ona national team?
He, he said none, I go.
Great.
I said how many people have yousent to the us team trials?
What, what, what does that haveto do with anything?
I go, I'm just curious.
(40:57):
None, I go great.
I said.
How many of your students wonthe state championships?
What do you mean?
None, I go great, I said.
As Herb Perez, owner of GoldMedal Martial Arts, it is thank
you.
Please, keep doing what you'redoing.
You're perfectly engineered forthe results you're getting and,
(41:20):
by the way, you make it easierfor my guys to beat yours.
As her Perez, ceo of high leveltraining, it's my hope that
you'll sit down and learnsomething now.
Sit down and so, of course, youknow this is back in the early
days of the internet.
You know people had keyboardsand they're all like, oh, he was
so mean.
No, that's, that's honest.
Look at the results.
So, usa Taekwondo,congratulations.
(41:43):
You are perfectly engineeredfor the results you're getting.
The last medalist you had in anOlympic Games is on this
podcast, and one of the firstmedalists you had in the Olympic
Games is on this podcast.
And then the other one, me, isright in the middle.
But congratulations, usaTaekwondo, you are perfectly.
(42:06):
Oh, we got the Pope.
Pope, leo, did he pick?
Speaker 4 (42:09):
his name yet.
Is that what?
Speaker 2 (42:11):
he's going to call himself.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
Pope Leo after Lionel Messi.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
I thought it was going to be Pete Zabala.
I was really in, but anyway.
So what I'm saying is you know,at some point America hasn't
learned its lesson, and when itlearns, that's a matter a little
bit right.
Speaker 5 (42:25):
What's that?
I see all these other countries, all these other countries work
with their past Olympians,their past people that are
somehow involved in the systemand keep building the system
because they were close to thesystem.
And like I just just like, likeyou said, it makes no sense.
You, you have a, you havepeople that were at the olympic
games and been through theentire process, and you've
systematically found a way toexclude them all and then and
(42:48):
then like, like, like all ofthem, though, all of them like,
like every single person that'sgot an olympic medal has left
the program has exited thebuilding.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
It's not even I, me, to be honest, it's too easy to
make it about us or them oranyone else, but we're not
saying about us or them, I'mjust saying facts the ones that
didn't win are there, though.
Oh yeah yeah, the losers are inthe room and they're running it.
That's just the truth.
On the other side of it, though, I'm not even going to make it
(43:17):
about anyone in particular, I'mjust going to make it about
systems.
Name one professional team, onethat doesn't fire the guys who
don't perform, Just one One.
They don't fire the athletes,they don't fire the coaches.
I guess my question how do theyconvince people.
Speaker 5 (43:34):
I mean, clearly they've convinced the USOC or
USOPC or who XYZ the tech windowguys that they're successful
because they still got money.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
The CEO still gets paid more money.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I don't understand.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
You've hit another, so we got to be successful right
.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Here's the real.
Are we successful?
No, the USOPC isn't payingattention.
There's no way.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
Dude they're not paying attention.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
There's no way.
They don't have anybody in theroom that's paying attention.
No one in the room is payingattention.
Speaker 4 (44:04):
There's no one in the room no, no, they're not.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
You know why?
Because the truth is, usataekwondo is not meddling.
The only reason the usopcwhatever usoc, usopc, whatever
it's called these days iskeeping them in the room is they
have to, they're an olympicsport, and in the room because
they have to.
They're an Olympic sport.
And in the off chance that theymight medal, that's a medal.
Compare it to swimming's medals50 medals.
So, usopc, as long as they'renot doing anything illegal or
(44:30):
wrong, they're just like theydon't care about the medal we're
like curling, we're likebadminton, we're like pentathlon
.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
No, we're like curling, we're like badminton,
we're like um pentathlonpentathlon no, we're better than
pentathlon.
Speaker 5 (44:42):
I was around pentathlon guys, I was.
No, they're not payingattention to that.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
They have yeah, they don't.
Speaker 5 (44:48):
Even we're like to their national teams, like they
just show up and like they'rethe national team, like it's not
the same, like it's a.
I think I get your point, butthat don't don't make me cry.
That would be, that would be aterrible comparison.
That would be a terriblecomparison telling you, but but
don't make me cry, that would bea terrible comparison.
That would be a terriblecomparison.
I don't know.
I remember being a part of thefunding meetings when it came to
Olympic medals and how much Iremember the athletes being in
the room when they're telling ushow many medal predictions that
(45:10):
we're supposed to get, and Iremember being upset at that
meeting because I remember itwas me, paige, stephen and Diana
in the uh in the room and theytold us that they predicted us
to get uh, was it?
Two medals and obviously, beingwho I was at the time and who
we were at the time, theyweren't talking about me or
Paige.
And again for me, that thatstung me big and I'm like there
(45:34):
was no way.
I was like that's why we don'tget any money, cause that's got
it like.
So I remember being a part ofthose conversations.
I just it just doesn't makesense to me.
What is this?
Speaker 3 (45:46):
what is that oh?
Speaker 5 (45:48):
it's cool looking.
It's cool looking.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
Hell yeah, dude, I want to go like cyborg stuff,
yeah, but that's, that's that'smarketing, right, so that's
marketing.
So she, you know, she thecoolest one, but the better one
was the guy who was fromKazakhstan or something and he
looked like a guy.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (46:10):
What's that?
Speaker 5 (46:10):
We can't see it.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
Is that your daily walk ring?
Are these your steps for today?
Bro, these are my shooting man.
Speaker 4 (46:19):
Oh nice 10 meters.
Speaker 5 (46:22):
I see it now.
I see it now.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Y'all are going to recognize man.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Dude, I'm not even sure I would give you a gun.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
Shit.
I carry my gun every time.
I go Everywhere, not here.
Speaker 5 (46:36):
Not out there.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
But in Miami I do.
Anyway, listen, I know we'regoing around in circles and
stuff like that, but I'm just,you know, going back to what I
said, just listen, I try to dothe right thing, I try to reach
out, I try to make conversationsand just to be shunned or just
not even acknowledged is just, Ithink, unacceptable on a
(46:57):
professional level.
You not even acknowledge isjust, I think, unacceptable on a
professional level.
You don't like me.
You don't like me, I'm a jerk.
I'm a jerk, I'm too much, I'mtoo much, but just on a
professional level.
Because TJ, you said it, orHerbie, you know, because you
put me in a room with somebodythat I basically threatened.
But I've worked with people thatI don't personally like on a
personal level, but on aprofessional level.
Just like you said, tj, I wentto work every freaking day.
(47:19):
I, you know, bit my knuckle andwe got some stuff done together
.
Whether we liked each other ornot, we got some stuff together.
And you know what?
To be honest with you, we foundout that when it came to the
sport, we had a lot more incommon than we didn't, and and
that was some.
That was some some hard times.
Those were some not fun times,me and my co-worker we could
(47:43):
probably both admit that but wegot some good shit done, man and
results.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
And results.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
And I'm just saying at the end of the day, here we
are, we should be better 15years later.
Speaker 5 (47:57):
We should be better and we're not injection and this
guy just went up there with hisregular prescription glasses.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
He's a gangster, this is a gangster, oh yeah won a
silver medal, but if you thinkhe had?
Speaker 5 (48:10):
just a dude who watched john wick movies to the
olympics.
Think again dikic is actuallycompeting in his fifth Olympic,
not crazy it was a G, yeah, butanyway.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
So I mean not to you know again.
I think we have to get to aplace at some point where we
talk about solutions, and notbecause we're trying to give
them solutions, because itdoesn't really matter.
I think we have to go back to afundamental question of what's
in the best interest of theorganization, what's in the best
interest of the young?
You all teach young athletes,you all teach young athletes.
(48:45):
I do what is it?
Easy, easy.
Speaker 3 (48:49):
First and foremost, you have to get true buy-in.
People have to feel likethey're involved and that they
are respected enough to beintegrated into the system.
Listen, whatever you guys wantto say, the peak performance
model, there's a boss.
It's me, it's my name, it's mybrand.
But TJ, coach Lee, coach Brad,coach Sinopio, coach Russell,
(49:11):
coach Mark, coach Bisbaugh,coach Martin, coach Lallone,
coach Jenkins, all those guysare valued.
Coach Tom, coach Tim, they'reall valued, they all have their
place.
We get together and we worktogether and we bring them in.
And all the people I just toldyou and I'm excluding TJ, and
(49:31):
it's not a bad thing they werenobodies but they came in and
they fit into a program and theybecame somebody Every name that
I just mentioned, every singleone of them.
But they came in and they fitinto a program and they became
somebody.
They've all, every name that Ijust mentioned, every single one
of them have produced junior orcadet, cadet junior and some
senior national teams, someworld champions.
I haven't produced a worldchampion me, but one of my
(49:54):
coaches produced a worldchampion.
So all of them felt wanted,felt needed.
You have to get buy-in, truebuy-in, and this organization
does not have true buy-in.
They have some people that comein because they get something,
because they get a, a positionor a title, but there's not true
(50:15):
buy-in.
If there was true buy-in, therewould be freaking 30 people at
that organization, 30 people onthat academy team.
Tj, you said it before.
You're right.
There was a time where we had aroom very deep I don't want to
go into numbers Very deep butthere is not true buy-in.
(50:35):
There is not a coach that cansit there and go.
I'm going to give my kid overthere.
They don't do it.
They do it because they thinkthat's all they have to do it.
I'm saying what's real and youguys know it.
You guys know it.
I told you guys.
Last week on the podcast, I hadtwo coaches come up to me and
both of them said you're sayingwhat everybody is thinking.
(50:56):
You're saying what everybody isthinking.
You're saying what everybodywants to say and it's the truth.
If it was true buy-in, theywouldn't be begging people to
come out there.
People would be knocking on thedoors to come out there and
they're not.
It would be easy, right?
Tell me I'm wrong.
Speaker 5 (51:09):
Tell me I'm wrong.
It should be easy.
It should be easy, it should besimple, it should be desired.
Again, I don't know if it's alack of, like you said and this
is not pinpoint I don't know ifit's a lack of desire or a lack
of understanding how or what orwhen.
But you didn't tell me youcan't pack that room.
You can't tell me, evenhistorically, you can't tell me
(51:33):
was this eight years deep intothis program, or how many ever
years they've been here thatwe're not packing the room at
this point?
Speaker 3 (51:39):
That's a great point Five years, four years.
You guys haven't spread yourgospel enough that people aren't
banging down your doors.
Young, you said it, fire themIf you can't do it in two years,
three years, four years, fiveyears go.
You failed, you failed, am Iwrong?
Am I years?
(51:59):
Three years, four years, fiveyears go.
You're.
You failed, you failed, am Iwrong?
Speaker 2 (52:03):
am I wrong?
You're right, but I meanthey've gotta, like you know,
they people have to when it'senough, when people have had
enough, it'll be enough.
Right now, it's not enough Ifeel bad.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
I mean it's gotta be enough let me say this I do not
feel good talking like this, butit's the truth.
It's the truth.
I mean, tell me I'm wrong.
Tell me I'm wrong.
In seven years, you can't buildsomething bigger than what you
built.
Speaker 5 (52:29):
Don't tell me, we don't talk like this.
Speaker 3 (52:31):
Don't tell me we had, we had one result, we had this,
we had that.
Don't tell me that.
Stop that.
You know we we had this, we hadthat.
Don't tell me that.
Stop that we got a medal at theworld championships, a medal at
the Olympics.
That's not.
You haven't built growth, youhaven't, you just haven't.
And it's been five-plus years,more than that, and that's just
(52:53):
not acceptable.
And Herb, you're right.
And Herb you're right In anybusiness, any stretch of
professional sporting, if youhaven't done it, you're gone.
I mean NFL coaches get threeyears, two years by third year.
Guys that won the NBAchampionships in Denver one year
out, they fired them.
Speaker 5 (53:17):
One year.
So just to be clear, that's thething.
This, this is not success, butit's being sold as success.
It's being sold as we aresomehow in the midst of the game
, petitioning for first orsecond.
We're not, we're not, we're.
We're part of the game, I guess.
But again, I mean, I'm just, I'mjust being honest, no yeah
there's, there's, there, there,we should again, after talking
(53:39):
about the training camps, theyare talking about the following
they understand everybody'ssystem is different but, like
you know, we, we should bebigger than this.
And if this is, if you go, wegot four people, four guys and
four girls, and those are onesin the room, and all the money
and resources when we look backas being spent on these four
guys or four girls, they shouldall be rock stars.
They all gotta be goldmedalists they all got to be.
Olympic gold medals at thatpoint, with that much money.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
They all got to be Olympic gold medals.
Either that or move on.
I did find the director of highperformance, so that's a
little-known Sherman Spinksvideo, but anyway, know hard to
find those between himproselytizing, you know, and his
(54:23):
mixed messages, you know.
He's got to talk to the newPope.
The Pope's got to help redirectthat guy's energy.
But you know, I again I want toat some point we'll focus more
on.
I mean, we called it anevolution, a revolution,
whatever you want to call it areinvention, but it's got to be
deconstructed because right nowit's not working.
(54:45):
And I don't really care aboutwhy it's not working, because
the why at this point doesn'tmatter.
You really don't have a choice.
But you have to change.
You're listening to someBrazilian.
What do you?
Got over there.
Did you hear that?
Tj?
Speaker 5 (55:02):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (55:03):
It was like.
Speaker 3 (55:09):
It was Uzbekistani.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Oh, that was Uzbekistani.
Shares a commonality withPortuguese.
Speaker 3 (55:16):
Actually, it shares a commonality with Turkish and
whatever Azerbaijan language.
It's very close.
I just learned that and I don'treally know myself but, it's
pretty interesting.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
I think the next show we might have somebody on, or I
think it's time to starttalking about solutions.
I would invite Patrice fromMark on because he's doing a
bunch of stuff, but to be honest, I can't understand Patrice all
the time on videos.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
Oh, look at this guy that handsome devil.
I'm speaking.
You want to know something.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
I'm looking this right now and I see the poster
behind TJ's face.
Oh my God, there's a similaritythere.
There's a similarity.
There's a similarity.
Let's strike a pose.
Speaker 5 (56:06):
Hold on.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
All right.
Well, we've taken enough ofyour time.
We're almost at an hour today.
Anything else for the good ofthe order?
Yes, sir.
Speaker 5 (56:14):
We can keep talking about this for another hour.
If you want, I'm listening.
Yes, sorry not.
Speaker 3 (56:17):
I'm listening.
Can I say something?
Yes, sorry, not sorry, mf.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
There you go.
Sorry, not sorry, and that isour theme song and you got to
listen.
I'm going to release the fullversion of it soon.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
Congratulations to the new Pope from Chi-Town Yep.
He's a Cubs fan.
Represent.
Speaker 2 (56:40):
Let's go, baby, let's go.
May the new post reign inglorious and frivolous and
fratless.
Speaker 4 (56:49):
Be careful, I'm going to keep it.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
Take it easy Hold on, let me move over a little bit.
Speaker 3 (56:55):
You better take it easy, old boy.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
Best of with that papa Look, my mic disappeared.
Speaker 4 (57:01):
Voila.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
That's like magic TJ.
Anything for the good of theorder.
Speaker 5 (57:06):
Magic, I'm good.
I'm good, all right, I can seeyour nipples.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
Keep your nipples hard.
I can still see them.
This has been the Warehouse 15.
Hold on.
If we're going to be doing that, hold on, hold, house 15.
Speaker 3 (57:21):
Hold on If we're going to be doing that hold on,
Hold on yeah baby, that is 65.
Speaker 2 (57:23):
That is what 65 looks like.
You want me to take my clothesoff?
No, I was listening verycarefully both of your
descriptions of your massages,so I'm calling SafeSport as soon
as this podcast is over.
Speaker 3 (57:35):
I think you guys have a claim.
They fired the.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
SafeSport claim they fired the safe sport guys.
They fired the guys.
They fired them all.
They fired them all becausethey were doing a horrible job.
I just heard, just recently.
I just heard, anyway, the clownshow over there is over too,
gentlemen we're out Deuces LaterPeace.
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