May 21, 2026 • 31 mins
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Vanessa reflects on her recent self-described "meltdown episode" in which she talked herself down from a panic spiral. She was nervous to share something so messy & vulnerable, but the response was incredible - so many of you identified completely with her feelings. (Turns out tax season is a real trigger for us all!)
Today, she shares some of her own observations once she had de-escalated, as well as some of the feedback and perspective she received - and most importantly she details what helped her actually get organized as opposed to just spiralling over the fear of being disorganized.
Also, we got over 100 entries for last week's Texas Instruments "Oh My Math" Box giveaway! The winner has already been contacted, but if you didn't hear from us don't despair - we'll be giving away one box every month for the rest of the summer, so stay subscribed to Math Therapy so you don't miss your next chance to win.
Links mentioned:
- Ep: Why smart people still feel out of control (and what to do about it)
- Ep: This will change the way you think about calculators w/ Curtis Brown
- Imagine Learning's podcast series "Heart Work" featuring Vanessa (Pt 1 available now)
Contact us:
- Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
- Math Therapy: Text the Podcast
More Math Therapy:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vanessa Vakharia (00:04):
Okay, guys.
Hi.
Welcome to another episode ofMath Therapy.
I'm your host, Vanessa Vakharia,and today's outline was written
by David, actually.
He wrote me an organizedoutline.
He was like,"Vanessa, get ittogether.
I'm gonna write you an outline.
Just follow the outline." So Iam not responsible for anything
I say.
That's not true.
I am.
(00:24):
Let's see what happens now thatfor the first time I have an
outline written by David infront of me.
Update number one, oh my fuckingGod, guys.
our Texas Instruments giveawaywas insane.
Okay?
So in case you missed it, we areofficially sponsored by Texas
Instruments for the next fewmonths.
We are celebrating TexasInstruments Evo calculator, the
(00:47):
TI Evo.
It is stunning.
It is gorgeous.
She has so many cool features.
Anyways, once a month for thenext three months, we are giving
away one of these calculatorsand this whole gift box that
comes with it, and last week'sepisode was the first episode
where we shared the giveaway,shared how to enter it, and by
the way, every single month,there will be a different way to
enter it.
We got over 100 entries.
(01:07):
It was insane, and we havepicked the winner.
We used a spreadsheetrandomizer.
Very nerdy, very cool.
We have already replied to thewinner with instructions on how
to claim the prize, and it's soexciting.
But, and also, I get how excitedeveryone is about this because
I'm also excited about theentire thing.
But if you didn't win, don'tpanic, okay, because we're
giving away one Oh My Math Boxeach month for the next three
(01:31):
months, so you'll have morechances.
One episode in June, one episodein July.
I can't tell you which one it'sgonna be.
You have to listen to thepodcast every week to find out,
and you'll know.
You'll know because, well, atthe beginning of the episode, we
will tell you.
Okay, cool.
So stay subscribed.
Listen every week so you don'tmiss a chance to win.
Number two, now that we'vegotten that out of the way, what
(01:53):
we're really going to be talkingabout, the heart of this episode
is actually a follow-up, adebrief on what has happened
since I recorded what can onlybe titled my meltdown episode.
It wasn't actually called mymeltdown episode.
Let me actually look up what itwas called so you know what I'm
talking about.
It was called Why Smart PeopleStill Feel Out of Control and
(02:15):
What to Do About It.
It came out May 7th, so a coupleweeks ago, and in that episode,
I, like, low-key, high-key ha-like, not a full meltdown, but I
was really spiraling.
I was really spiraling aboutfeeling out of control and
feeling disorganized.
That was kind of the heart ofit.
You should go listen to theentire thing.
The link is in the show notes.
(02:35):
Um, and I basically use, like,math therapy strategies to talk
me out of my anxiety spiral, andI've gotten a lot of incredible
feed- I mean, first of all, letme just say, The reason we
recorded it is because Davidforced me to because he was so
annoyed at, like, the spiral Iwas in, and he was like,"I can't
hear you talk about thisanymore, so if you're gonna keep
talking about it, please justpull the mic out, and record an
(02:56):
episode." And I was like,"What?"So I did, and I wasn't really,
like...
I, I was like,"Am I reallyreleasing an episode where I,
like, live, IRL just, like,start spiraling?" but we did,
and I felt, I felt weird aboutit.
Like, I was like,"I don't knowif this is really gonna land,"
and this was definitely a, like,let me just trust my producer,
AKA my best friend David, onthis.
(03:18):
and I'm really glad I did.
N- honestly, listening back toit, it was, it, I felt very
cringe, but it was worth it forthe comments I got.
Because so many people reachedout to me to be like,"That is
exactly how I have felt so manytimes," or,"That's exactly how I
feel," or, like,"So many peoplefeel this way," or,"All of my
friends talk about this all thetime." And I'm going to say I
(03:41):
got those messages from peoplewho I would consider very
organized, so I was kind of,like, surprised.
It really felt while I wasrecording that episode that my
inability to feel organized was,like, a personal failing, and I,
ugh, you know, I think this iswhy- I'm so happy that we're
(04:01):
having so many conversationsaround math anxiety.
Just to flip the switch here fora second, although I will say my
meltdown was kind of related tomath anxiety because it all
started with me spiraling aboutmy taxes, which by the way, so
many people messaged me to belike,"The exact same thing
happens to me with my taxes."Actually, I wanna read, okay,
this is a math teacher, a mathpodcaster, and she says...
(04:26):
Oh my God, Vanessa, I'm 100%like you when it comes to taxes.
Thank you so much for makingthat episode.
My husband always asks me how Ican have a mathematics degree,
come from a family ofaccountants, and still fuck up
our taxes every time.
I mean, I don't actually, but Ido 100% stress the F out about
them and have crazy anxiety overit.
(04:46):
Glad to know I'm not alone." Sohere's actually the crazy thing
about this.
It's so funny that she's like,"How do I still fuck up our
taxes every time?" Right?
But, and then the next sentenceshe's like,"I mean, I don't
actually." But it doesn't matter'cause the...
Well, it does matter, but it'slike the feeling is the thing,
and this reminds me so much ofmath anxiety where k- where kids
will be like,"I just makemistakes every time.
(05:07):
I can't get it right everytime." Like, this kinda thing.
And then when you pause to belike,"Well, is that true?
Have you never gotten a rightanswer?" This is something I
call the choose again method, bythe way, championed by Gabby
Bernstein, where you actuallyinterrogate your negative
self-talk to be like,"Wait asecond.
Is that actually true?
Can I pick a t- another thoughtto replace that thought with
(05:28):
that is true?" So in this case,"I fuck up our taxes every time"
might turn into a thoughtthat's,"I don't actually, but I
am stressed every time." And youcan see how that second thought
has so much more power than thefirst thought, which is a, a
thought that just shuts youdown.
Why are you ever gonna do yourtaxes if you fuck them up every
time?
But if you're like,"I don't fuckthem up, but I know I stress out
(05:48):
about it," that gives you anopening to try again, to try to
get help.
With math, if you're like,"Inever get anything right," well,
why are you gonna bother trying?
Whereas if the thought changesto,"Well, sometimes I get things
right, but even when I do, I'mreally stressed," there is an
opening to actually keep trying.
Anyways, okay.
This was-- I'm gonna tell youwho this is because she has a
podcast.
this is Kristen, Modern MathTeacher podcast.
(06:10):
That's the person who sent methe message, so I just wanted to
share that.
So part of this is, why I'm sohappy I talked about it, I know
it was in a very public forum,but why I think it's important
to talk about these things, isbecause it reminds us that
feelings are not facts.
I'm gonna say that again.
Feelings are not facts, right?
Like, again, going back to whatKristen said.
Hi, Kristen, by the way.
(06:31):
Thank you so much for letting ususe you as a case study.
Um, this idea of I feel like Ifuck up my taxes every time."
The fact is that I don't, right?
And that, and sitting in thatreally changes things.
It doesn't necessarily make thefeeling go away, but it
certainly takes the temperaturedown.
It takes the charge out of thefeeling because now you're like,
(06:51):
"Ugh, this feeling feels icky,but I do...
a part of me knows it is notrooted in truth." And for me,
hearing from you guys, like,that validation of like,"I feel
this way, too." Like, there arelots of people that feel this
way who you, Vanessa, wouldconsider organized.
That took the charge away fromme being like,"Oh my God.
I feel disorganized.
I'm such a hot mess," to beinglike,"Okay, I feel disorganized,
(07:14):
but objectively, my life is nota mess.
My taxes, I, I didn't, I didn'tfuck them up." And other people
feel this way tru- too who areorganized, so the fact that you
feel disorganized does not meanthat you are disorganized.
The fact that you feel thatyou're bad at math does not mean
that you are bad at math.
And that is why I always say theemotional component of math
(07:37):
learning is so important,because it is not always rooted
in ability and technicality andskill.
It is not always rooted in theactual math doing.
It is rooted in these feelingsaround it that have to be
addressed.
Okay.
Anyways.
I also wanna share three thingsI did after the episode that
(07:57):
helped, because I am now comingto you in a state where I'm no
longer in the spiral.
I'm actually pretty chill.
I mean, chill, I don't soundchill, and like, I'm never
really, like, chill.
But I'm like, I've definitely...
that whole organization pieceis, like, in the rear view
mirror.
I feel fine.
You know what I mean?
I'm still s- I still have thegeneral...
(08:17):
I think I always have thegeneral, like,"Oh, I'm kind of
behind, and I've got so much todo, and da da da da da," but
it's a very different qualitythan the panic I was feeling
when I recorded that otherepisode on May 7th.
So here are three things I did.
Because I think these arerelevant to any form of anxiety
and very relevant to mathanxiety, because math anxiety is
(08:38):
just another form of anxiety.
So while I'm listing thesethings, I'm gonna try to tie
them into how I would u-Because, you know, the truth is,
I wrote Math Therapy from aplace of knowing so much about
math anxiety, helping so manystudents through math anxiety,
research on math anxiety, and myown experience with math anxiety
and other anxiety.
You know, every time I, uh, do atalk or talk to somebody or do
(09:00):
an interview, everyone usuallyis like,"Oh, interesting," like,
yeah, this is about math, but,you know, this can be applied to
anything.
And so I'm gonna actually tryand go through these and even,
like, share how, how either thisstrategy came out of the
classroom or how I would use itin the classroom or with someone
with math anxiety.
Okay.
First thing I did was myth bust.
(09:20):
If you guys know my book, that'sactually the first step of math
therapy, the first M of maththerapy.
There's five Ms.
The first one is myth busting.
It is busting the myths you holdaround your beliefs.
So in my book, I talk about mythbusting the fact that there is
such a thing as this person whocan do math, right?
Like, how do we bust that myth?
(09:41):
How do we get that out ofsomeone's head so that they can
see themselves as somebody whodoes math?
And then there's so many otherthings you have to bust, right?
There's so many other myths thatyou have to kind of, like, bust
in order to make that true foryou.
And myth busting is really justfact-checking.
So the first thing I did is,it's kind of funny, like, this
is, this is really, like,aligning with what Kristen said
(10:03):
here.
The first thing I actually didwas I spoke to my accountant.
So I, I don't have an accountantbecause, as you know, in my last
episode, I was like,"So ifanyone's an accountant, please
contact me." No one hascontacted me, though.
I'm really looking for anaccountant.
I spoke to an accountant for mybusiness, my tutoring business.
Anyways, I spoke to him.
He doesn't do my personal taxes,but I was like,"Can you just
(10:24):
take a look at what I've done?
And, and let me-- can I ask yousome questions?" Because so much
of my spiral was around just,like, I, there's things I didn't
understand around taxes, and Ithink when we don't understand
things, we create stories,right?
Like, that's kind of whathappens is we don't understand
things, so we either createstories about how those things
work, or we go into fear mode,right?
(10:45):
Like,"I don't understand howthis works, so I must be doing
something wrong." So I spoke tomy accountant and actually asked
some questions, and he actuallyexplained in a very kind and
informative way and a way thatdid not make me feel dumb.
Thank you so much, Vincenzo, ifyou're listening.
He's definitely not listening.
Um, I actually asked him to comeon the podcast, and he was like,
before I even finished thequestion, he was like,"Nope."
(11:06):
Anyways, so now I had someactual facts.
I wasn't just assuming that myfinances were a mess.
I had some actual facts, and waslike,"Honestly," like,"yeah,"
like,"this looks fine." And alsoThere aren't that many hard--
like, there aren't many- thatmany ways to do this.
Like, I was like,"But should Ibe doing this?
Should I be declaring this asthis?
Should this be in thiscategory?" And he was like,
(11:27):
"That's actually not how itworks." Like, he explained some
things I really had notunderstood, and really
de-escalated me.
Like, I was like, at the end ofit, I was like,"Oh," like, maybe
there's a couple things I coulddo differently next year, but
I'm not doing anything, like,crazy wrong." And,"Oh, I didn't
realize the system worked inthis way." So that was really
helpful to just fact-check, mythbust, right?
Like, myth bust the idea that,like, I'm doing all this stuff
(11:50):
wrong, and, like, making up howthings work at the CRA or the
IRS, if you're American, orwhere- whatever, whatever.
And this is, to me, really likeclarifying something for a
student.
I remember when I was, like, atthe height of my failing math,
the thing that got me wasquadratics.
I had no clue.
I was like,"It's this crazyfucking thing.
(12:12):
I have no idea how to do it.
There's like 5,000 steps." And Iremember when my friend Emily
actually tutored me.
She was my first, tutor.
I remember she, like,demystified it for me, I think
it was, like, factoringquadratics or it was the
quadratic formula.
She was like,"Find A, B, and C,plug them into the quadratic
formula." And I was like Oh myGod, this is actually quite
simple.
(12:32):
It just felt like such a mess'cause I didn't understand it,
and there was these, like, Xsquares and this parabola, and
like, that formula, thequadratic formula looks fucking
insane, right?
You're like,"Oh my God." ButI...
Like, she just taught me step bystep how to do it, and it
completely took the temp- turnedthe temperature down, and I was
like,"Oh, wow," right?
So that to me is very similarto, to me talking to my
accountant.
(12:52):
The second thing I did to mythbust how I was feeling, this was
a big one, guys.
I surveyed people.
I surveyed people who Iconsidered very organized people
who are on top of shit, and Isurveyed them about their to-do
lists.
That was my obsession if yourecall.
I was like,"I don't have theright to-do list system," like,
da, da, da, da, da.
So I asked people.
I was like,"What to-do list doyou use?
How do you organize yourself?"Okay.
(13:14):
Here's what I learned.
I thought there was, like, somemiracle, like, solution to all
of this.
Like, s- people were gonna belike,"It's this app," and like,
"This is how I use it." No.
Person number one, okay, myfriend Lee, she was like,"I just
put things in a GoogleCalendar." I was like,"What do
you mean?" She was like,"I justput the things I have to do in a
Google Calendar, and every day Iwrite down the three things I'm
(13:36):
gonna do that day." And I waslike,"Okay." My friend Carrie,
honestly one of the mostorganized people I know, she was
like,"I write things down.
Everything is handwritten." Iwas like,"How, how are you doing
that?" Like, handwriting, like,what if you have to change
things around?
This did not seem to be aproblem for her.
She was like,"I write the thingsdown.
You know, they're next to mycomputer, and I have them
(13:57):
written down." My friend Johnny,he was like,"I use the Apple's
native, Reminders app." Like, noone actually that I talked to
used a crazy app.
I'm the one with the crazy app.
I've been using Trello.
I have, like, 40 lists I'm,like, reorgan- Like, it didn't
really seem that way.
Like, no one had this magicalfix, like, you know what I mean?
(14:18):
And so here's what I realized.
Every single person had adifferent method, but every
person had one thing in common,and that thing in common was
every single one of them, everysingle one of them was like,"And
every day I look at that list, Imaybe reorganize some stuff, and
I write down the top threethings I need to get done that
day." And I was like, wow.
(14:41):
Okay.
So here's what's happening.
Here's what's happening.
It's not actually about thetool.
Like, I have a tool.
They all have a tool.
It's about using the toolproperly.
This actually reminds me...
Holy shit, I did not think I wasgonna make this connection.
This reminds me of my interviewwith Curtis Brown from Texas
Instruments if you haven'tlistened to that one yet, that
is called Oh, This Will Changethe Way You Think About
(15:03):
Calculators with Curtis Brown.
That was April, in April, April9th.
This reminds me of that becausewe were talking about
calculators in this way of like,people wanna hate on the
calculators or like...
You know what I mean?
And be like,"Oh, calculators areresponsible for kids not knowing
math," da, da, da, da, da.
And the whole thing of thatepisode was like, it's not about
the tool.
You can actually have acalculator and get all the math
wrong.
(15:23):
If anybody, teaches trig, youknow this, right?
I've had students get answers toan entire test wrong because
their calculator was in radiansinstead of degrees.
Like you, if you know, you know.
You know what I mean?
Like, you can, or you can get amillion things wrong by not
using brackets, and yourcalculator, you have one of the
versions that doesn't haveBEDMAS on it.
Like, do you know what I mean?
This is what I learned.
I'm like, I have the tool.
(15:45):
I don't need to be spending moretime looking for a new to-do
list app.
I'm not using my tool properly.
And guys, I have to be honest,I'm still not.
Like, for the first couple ofdays after I learned this, I was
like, all right, get up in themorning, look at your list,
reorganize things, move, youknow, prioritize, pick three
things to do.
I did it for two days.
It was amazing.
I stopped doing it, and now I'mlike, oh God, I'm like so off
track.
What am I supposed to be doing?
(16:06):
And it's like I'm just not usingthe tool properly.
And I think that is also reallyso...
Like, the lesson there is crazybecause it's like students have
the tools.
They have their Chromebooks.
They have Desmos, like whatever,and so then they feel kind of
dumb because they're like,"Well,it's not working," and it's, it
could be because they don't knowhow to use the tool properly.
You know where I actually thinkthis comes across the most?
(16:27):
Is in the concept of studying,right?
Students will be like,"Well, I'mstudying." Like,"I'm..." You
know what I mean?
They're studying, and then theydon't get the results they want,
and then they're like,"See?
I can't do it." But then youfind out that their version of
studying was reading the notesover and over again or doing
questions and never checking thesolutions, so they never knew
they were doing the questionswrong.
(16:47):
And you're like, oh, you'redoing the thing, but you're not
doing it in an effective way,and if I could just show you
this tweak, that would changeeverything.
But there's nothing like feelinglike you're doing the thing and
not getting the results youwant.
And for, in my case, I was like,I have this to-do list.
It's so...
Like, I add the things to it.
I have them organized by date.
And it's like, yeah, but Iwasn't using the tool
effectively.
(17:07):
So myth-busting all of that wasso helpful, and can I tell you
something else?
Every per- every one of thesepeople I talk to were like, you
know, I also feel disorganized.
I also feel like I'm jugglingstuff, and like, I don't..." You
know, they were like,"I don'talways get everything done on my
to-do list." And I was like, oh,okay, so it's not a personal
failing if I don't geteverything done on my to-do
list.
It's not a personal failing ifyou make some mistakes in math
(17:28):
class, right?
Like, I think we just have thisassumption that other people do
these things to perfection.
Okay, so that was the firstthing I did, myth-bust the myth
of the tool, myth-bust the ideathat everyone else has a better
system than me, myth-bust thefact that because I didn't
understand all my taxes, I wasdoing them wrong, myth-bust some
of my actual beliefs about howtaxes work.
(17:50):
Step number two was organize,but more importantly, I
prioritized.
I did that for a couple of daysas you just know, right?
Like, I was trying toincorporate prioritizing as more
of a routine, this dailyroutine.
That is the key of what everyonetold me, and I have to say, I've
fallen off the wagon there.
But when I was doing that, itreally, really did help, you
know?
So there was that piece.
(18:12):
And then there was also thepiece of I get in the habit of,
like, something might not be apriority, but it's easier to do,
so I'll do that thing instead,being like,"Oh, well, I'm doing
stuff on my to-do list." Butthen I end the day stressed
because I haven't done the onething that I really needed to
get done or wanted to get donethat was hard, right?
Like, I do find that even if Ido, like, 10 tasks, but I don't
do the one thing that I'm reallyavoiding, I feel uneasy, right?
(18:35):
And it's like, this is likeclassic to-do list psychology.
Like, you're supposed to, like,put this thing on the top of
your list that's like,"If I getthis one thing done today, I'll
feel amazing," right?
Or like, like all these otherpeople, put their top three
things they really wanna getdone.
This is exactly like math to me,exactly.
Because students will doquestions.
Again, they'll study, they'll doall these questions, but they
(18:55):
won't do the ones that they hateor that they're really avoiding,
and then they still don't getthat feeling of accomplishment
or confidence because they kindaknow in the back of their heads
there's this thing lurking thatthey don't understand how to do.
So, like, I think this is areally good method, especially
if you are, you're stillassigning homework or you want
students to do practiceproblems.
Maybe we could actually...
That would be cool.
Maybe we could treat our, ourassigning of practice to
(19:17):
students this way.
Like, teach them the skill ofbeing, like, put the top three
problems on your list that youwill feel amazing if you solve,
and then put everythingunderneath that, right?
As opposed to being like,"Here'sa sheet of practice problems.
Just work through them inorder." Like, teach them how to
prioritize what would be mo-most important for their
self-efficacy and skillbuilding.
And so that, I think, was, like,kind of a big deal for me to
(19:40):
realize, and I'm still workingon it.
And I remember I listened tothis episode of Mel Robbins, and
she was talking to, I can'tremember.
I really can't remember.
I'll get David to put it in theshow notes.
She was talking to, maybe it wasSeth Godin.
That name rings a bell.
and he said something like,"Youknow, everyone dies with a to-do
list." And I was like,"Oh myGod." Right?
It's not like people, like, atsome point in their lives are
(20:02):
like,"Well, yeah, all right.
I've got nothing else to do.
There's nothing else on thelist.
Like, I guess I'm done." No.
We live full lives, and we'reconstantly coming up with ideas
and more things to do.
Like, we replenish our to-dolist the second it's empty.
So to remember, like, we'realways gonna feel that way To
some degree, that we're not doneeverything, and that's a good
(20:23):
thing.
I think that's actually a giftto be like,"Wow, there's so much
I wanna do." It's more abouttaking away the feeling of guilt
of not doing those things andbeing like,"Yeah, there's so
much I wanna do because I'm ahuman being with ideas." Like,
cool.
Like, awesome.
Whatever I get done is great.
You know what I mean?
And of course, there's thingsyou have to get done, but most
stuff I realized on my list,that was another thing about
prioritizing.
(20:43):
Like, as soon as I wrote orrecorded that meltdown episode,
I went to my list and was like,"I'm moving everything that is
not essential to anon-essentials list." And it was
hard.
I'd be like,"Oh, but I reallywanna...
Oh, but it'd be so cool if I didthat.
Oh, but..." It's like, yes, butis this essential?
No.
And once I...
Like, I wanted to get my frienda gift.
I'm like, I, oh, but it'sactually not essential.
(21:04):
It'd be nice if I got her agift, but it wasn't essential.
So I moved everything to thatlist, and when I saw the
essential stuff left on my list,I was like, okay, I have space
for maybe five more things.
Then I could go to thenon-essentials list and move a
couple things over that I reallywanted to do.
But to keep being like, I onlyneed to look at the essentials
part of my list, and only if Ihave time do I look at the rest,
(21:25):
that was important.
Okay, so step number one, thefirst thing I did was myth bust.
The second was organize, butmore importantly, prioritize.
And the third is I released thepressure so I could actually get
to work.
This was a huge deal.
I was spiraling.
You guys heard me.
I was spiraling.
I could not do anything.
All I was doing was moving shitaround on my to-do list.
That's all I was doing, movingshit, moving shit, moving shit.
(21:46):
Like, it was like I couldn'tactually do any of the things on
the list.
And I released the pressure.
Like, first of all, I vented onthe podcast, and I have to be
honest, like, that is the thingthat for me, like we're all
different, but outer processingis the thing for me that helps
me clarify.
Like, some people clarifythrough journaling.
(22:07):
Actually, side note, guys, thisis really important for me to
say.
I used to be the most prolificjournaler.
I have, like, literally boxes ofjournals from, like, high school
onwards, you know what I mean?
Like, I have so many books, andI, every time I try to journal
lately, I have to stop becausemy hand hurts, and the other
day, I went to write someone abirthday card, and 30 seconds
(22:27):
in, like, I c- my hand hurt somuch.
And you know what I realized?
My hand hurts because I don'tever engage in the act of
writing, so my hand muscles donot know how to do that task
anymore.
How fucked is that?
It's been that long since I'vewritten something that my hand
hurts after th- 30 seconds.
And so, like, that means I haveto start...
(22:49):
like, I, I, I felt like that wasvery disturbing to me.
Like, I was like, this isactually messed up.
So I really, I don't wanna addthis to my to-do list, but I
really do think I need topractice writing for, like, 60
seconds a day and start buildingup.
It's like going to the gym formy hand.
I'm not committing to doingthis.
I'm just telling you.
Anyways, okay, the point is-That my, like, outer processing
for me is so essential.
Like, you guys heard probably inthat meltdown episode, why smart
(23:12):
people still feel out of controland what to do about it.
I s- was de-escalated by theend.
I was really a lot calmer, andfor me, outer processing is
really the thing.
It's releasing that pressure.
And for others it might not be,like, start chatting live on a
podcast.
It might be chatting with afriend, journaling, using a
productivity app, an AIassistant.
Like, whatever will help you getthose feelings out.
(23:36):
I mean, I love talking to afriend and, and hearing that
reflected back.
Like, even surveying people andtelling them how I felt really,
really helped me, and it really,really took the pressure off so
I co- actually focus on the taskat hand and see things more
clearly.
And in Math Therapy, I call thisde-escalation, right?
Like, we know that when we're ina state of anxiety, when we're
(23:57):
in one of the four traumaresponses, fight, flight,
freeze, or fawn, which I was inmany of those, right?
Like, I was, like, teeteringbetween, like, flight and just
being like,"Fuck this, I don'twanna do anything." Like,
freeze, not being able to do athing.
Fight, like, literally being sopissed off and angry that I was
this way.
Like, when we're in one ofthose, we can't actually do the
thing we need to help ourselves.
(24:17):
So for me, outer processingreally helped take the
temperature down.
That's why one of, like, mybiggest things I suggest in Math
Therapy is when a student or aperson is just like,"I can't do
this.
I suck at this," is just beinglike,"Hey, hold on a second.
Like, do you really feel thatway?
Like, tell me why." Or,"Did youh- have you had, like, bad
experiences in math?" Or,"Canyou remember a time when you
didn't feel this way?" Helpingsomebody else engage in
(24:40):
conversation is so helpful forthem because clarity often comes
as they are talking, right?
It doesn't come from us tellingsomeone.
It comes from them revealing tothemselves how they feel.
And that's also why Math Therapyjournaling is such a big deal
for me.
Like, as you guys know, I have,like, pages and pages of journal
prompts.
Maybe I'll make those availableat some point.
If you guys want them, text thepodcast if you're like,"I would
(25:02):
love a journal prompt," and I'llfind a way to make those
available.
Right now they're just availableif you have my book, but I can
just make a link available.
Anyways, journaling, talking,that kind of stuff is so
important for so many people torelease the pressure, right?
Often when we talk it all out,we're like,"Okay, I can kinda
see more clearly," or at least Ifeel seen and witnessed.
I think that's honestly probablya big thing for me, is, like,
(25:27):
why I like talking to people somuch more, whether it's a friend
or whether it's on the podcast.
There is something really,really validating about being
witnessed in your anxiety, ofhaving somebody else see you
hear you, acknowledge you,validate you, right?
And even better if someone canrelate to you.
In trauma-informed education, wetalk about this a lot of like
(25:49):
students needing to be witnessedoften.
Like, if a student is acting upin class or they're exhibiting
off-task behavior, often theyreally do need to be witnessed
in that, right?
Because e- even though it can bereally distracting to the class,
to have a conversation with themabout it, to say,"I acknowledge
that something's going on withyou," like, you know, that kind
of idea can really, really behelpful to someone's healing.
(26:11):
So just throwing that out there.
Okay.
Wow.
We did it.
I went through the things.
I'm at, 30 minutes here, but,you know, David's probably taken
some stuff out.
So just to recap, those threethings, myth busting, organizing
and prioritizing, releasing thepressure so I could actually get
to work.
I do honestly feel so muchbetter, but I will say the
(26:32):
thing, the fourth thing, and theway I'm gonna end this episode,
the fourth thing I did is Ibooked a vacation.
Guys, I'm serious.
I booked a vacation.
I have not been on vacationsince I went to Bali last March.
I've not even taken a two-dayvacation, so I'm really, really,
really, really so excited.
(26:53):
I'm going away for a week, andthat means there will be no
episode next week.
However, however, and I have totell you guys something, so when
I book vacations, I only haveone rule, okay?
And my rule is, is I'm notallowed to do anything
productive.
Like, I cannot produce anythingbecause, like, this is my...
Right?
I'm not allowed to be looking atmy to-do list.
(27:13):
I cannot be answering emails,like, unless they're urgent.
Like, I'm actually gonna try tobe really strict about this.
It's one week, right?
Which I'm nervous about, but I'malso like, I know I need it so
badly.
So for that reason, there is notgonna be an episode next week,
but, but, but I actually havereally, really exciting news.
So a couple of months ago, I didthis top-secret thing with
(27:33):
Imagine Learning.
It was the coolest thing.
They literally showed up to mytutoring center.
They flew here from Scotland,from Texas, from other parts in
the US.
A group of like, I can'tremember how many.
It doesn't matter.
A group of them flew here, cameto my tutoring studio so that I
could give their host, LaurenKeeling, live math therapy for a
(27:55):
three-part series they're doingon math anxiety.
Guy, this is not a regular pod-Like, I love our podcast.
Our podcast is great.
This is next fucking level.
Like, if you listen to, like,Serial or Wondery or, like, True
Crime, that is what theirpodcast is like.
It is unbelievable.
It is a tale.
Like, and it's a three-partseries, okay?
(28:15):
So the first episode drops- Itdropped yesterday.
Okay?
So that kind of sets the stage,and at the end there's a little
trailer for next week's episode,which will be clips of, it'll
be, like, a big chunk of me andthe host Lauren Keeling doing
Math Therapy.
But there will also be soundbites and parts with Deborah
Peart, who we love, the Matherqueen, and a therapist, Emma
(28:39):
Fogel, who was one of my firststudents.
So it's gonna be an epicepisode, and it drops next
Wednesday.
So, like, if you wanted yourThursday fix of Math Therapy,
you could just wait tillThursday and download it then,
or you could listen to it onWednesday.
So it's the Imagine LearningPodcast.
It's called Heart Work.
I'll put the link in the shownotes so you can actually catch
up on yesterday's episode so youcan be ready for next week.
(29:01):
And at the end of it all, theyare going to be releasing, we're
gonna be co-releasing a fullvideo episode of me giving
Lauren Keeling straight MathTherapy for 40 minutes.
Guys, I'm telling you, thisthing is a masterpiece.
They were at my tutoring centerfor literally eight hours.
Okay?
Like, they flew to Toronto.
They were there for eight hours.
We did so much fun stuff.
It is like a, it's a trueproduction.
(29:23):
Someone needs to give us aNetflix show.
I am literally manifesting thatinto the world.
Okay, so we'll be taking nextweek off, but you're gonna go
listen to Heart Work instead,and then we'll be back the
following week with anotherinterview.
I've got a couple of interviewsbanked that are just incredible.
And remember, another TexasInstruments giveaway will be
coming in June, and I'm doing abonus Texas Instruments giveaway
(29:44):
on Instagram in a couple ofweeks, so make sure you're
following me@themathguru.
Oh my God.
Guys, thank you all forlistening, for all the
encouraging words about thepodcast.
It means so much to see how manyof you are listening, to hear
how the podcast is helping somany people.
It just, it's helping me, sothank you guys so much.
And thank you for the h-hundred-plus of you who texted
(30:05):
the podcast to enter thegiveaway.
You now all know how to text thepodcast.
So text me.
Text me, tell me what you lovedabout this episode.
Tell me what you wanna hear anepisode on.
Like, I am always like,"Ugh,like I wanna do solo episodes,
but I don't know about what." Soif there's something you'd like
to hear me talk about, let meknow.
I love you guys so much.
You rock.
You can find the link to textthe podcast in the show notes.
(30:26):
You can DM me at themathguru onInstagram.
Have an amazing week.
Take some time for self-care,even if it's five minutes or an
hour or a weekend or a week,just make sure that you don't
end up like me two weeks ago.
And thank you guys so much forbeing a part of my weekly
healing.
(30:50):
Today's episode is a quickepisode to say hello, Gemini
season.
May 21st.
during Gemini season, we're up,we're down, we're all over the
place.
we are celebrating the twins.
We are celebrating duality, andthat's why this is gonna be an,
a mishmash episode, anepisode...
Okay, that was not in David'soutline, by the way.
That was ad lib in case you werewondering.
David was not like,"Talk aboutGemini season."
Okay, guys.
Hi.
Welcome to another episode ofMath Therapy.
I'm your host, Vanessa Vakharia,and today's outline was written
by David, actually.
He wrote me an organizedoutline.
He was like,"Vanessa, get ittogether.
I'm gonna write you an outline.
Just follow the outline." So Iam not responsible for anything
I say.
That's not true.
I am.
(00:24):
Let's see what happens now thatfor the first time I have an
outline written by David infront of me.
Update number one, oh my fuckingGod, guys.
our Texas Instruments giveawaywas insane.
Okay?
So in case you missed it, we areofficially sponsored by Texas
Instruments for the next fewmonths.
We are celebrating TexasInstruments Evo calculator, the
(00:47):
TI Evo.
It is stunning.
It is gorgeous.
She has so many cool features.
Anyways, once a month for thenext three months, we are giving
away one of these calculatorsand this whole gift box that
comes with it, and last week'sepisode was the first episode
where we shared the giveaway,shared how to enter it, and by
the way, every single month,there will be a different way to
enter it.
We got over 100 entries.
(01:07):
It was insane, and we havepicked the winner.
We used a spreadsheetrandomizer.
Very nerdy, very cool.
We have already replied to thewinner with instructions on how
to claim the prize, and it's soexciting.
But, and also, I get how excitedeveryone is about this because
I'm also excited about theentire thing.
But if you didn't win, don'tpanic, okay, because we're
giving away one Oh My Math Boxeach month for the next three
(01:31):
months, so you'll have morechances.
One episode in June, one episodein July.
I can't tell you which one it'sgonna be.
You have to listen to thepodcast every week to find out,
and you'll know.
You'll know because, well, atthe beginning of the episode, we
will tell you.
Okay, cool.
So stay subscribed.
Listen every week so you don'tmiss a chance to win.
Number two, now that we'vegotten that out of the way, what
(01:53):
we're really going to be talkingabout, the heart of this episode
is actually a follow-up, adebrief on what has happened
since I recorded what can onlybe titled my meltdown episode.
It wasn't actually called mymeltdown episode.
Let me actually look up what itwas called so you know what I'm
talking about.
It was called Why Smart PeopleStill Feel Out of Control and
(02:15):
What to Do About It.
It came out May 7th, so a coupleweeks ago, and in that episode,
I, like, low-key, high-key ha-like, not a full meltdown, but I
was really spiraling.
I was really spiraling aboutfeeling out of control and
feeling disorganized.
That was kind of the heart ofit.
You should go listen to theentire thing.
The link is in the show notes.
(02:35):
Um, and I basically use, like,math therapy strategies to talk
me out of my anxiety spiral, andI've gotten a lot of incredible
feed- I mean, first of all, letme just say, The reason we
recorded it is because Davidforced me to because he was so
annoyed at, like, the spiral Iwas in, and he was like,"I can't
hear you talk about thisanymore, so if you're gonna keep
talking about it, please justpull the mic out, and record an
(02:56):
episode." And I was like,"What?"So I did, and I wasn't really,
like...
I, I was like,"Am I reallyreleasing an episode where I,
like, live, IRL just, like,start spiraling?" but we did,
and I felt, I felt weird aboutit.
Like, I was like,"I don't knowif this is really gonna land,"
and this was definitely a, like,let me just trust my producer,
AKA my best friend David, onthis.
(03:18):
and I'm really glad I did.
N- honestly, listening back toit, it was, it, I felt very
cringe, but it was worth it forthe comments I got.
Because so many people reachedout to me to be like,"That is
exactly how I have felt so manytimes," or,"That's exactly how I
feel," or, like,"So many peoplefeel this way," or,"All of my
friends talk about this all thetime." And I'm going to say I
(03:41):
got those messages from peoplewho I would consider very
organized, so I was kind of,like, surprised.
It really felt while I wasrecording that episode that my
inability to feel organized was,like, a personal failing, and I,
ugh, you know, I think this iswhy- I'm so happy that we're
(04:01):
having so many conversationsaround math anxiety.
Just to flip the switch here fora second, although I will say my
meltdown was kind of related tomath anxiety because it all
started with me spiraling aboutmy taxes, which by the way, so
many people messaged me to belike,"The exact same thing
happens to me with my taxes."Actually, I wanna read, okay,
this is a math teacher, a mathpodcaster, and she says...
(04:26):
Oh my God, Vanessa, I'm 100%like you when it comes to taxes.
Thank you so much for makingthat episode.
My husband always asks me how Ican have a mathematics degree,
come from a family ofaccountants, and still fuck up
our taxes every time.
I mean, I don't actually, but Ido 100% stress the F out about
them and have crazy anxiety overit.
(04:46):
Glad to know I'm not alone." Sohere's actually the crazy thing
about this.
It's so funny that she's like,"How do I still fuck up our
taxes every time?" Right?
But, and then the next sentenceshe's like,"I mean, I don't
actually." But it doesn't matter'cause the...
Well, it does matter, but it'slike the feeling is the thing,
and this reminds me so much ofmath anxiety where k- where kids
will be like,"I just makemistakes every time.
(05:07):
I can't get it right everytime." Like, this kinda thing.
And then when you pause to belike,"Well, is that true?
Have you never gotten a rightanswer?" This is something I
call the choose again method, bythe way, championed by Gabby
Bernstein, where you actuallyinterrogate your negative
self-talk to be like,"Wait asecond.
Is that actually true?
Can I pick a t- another thoughtto replace that thought with
(05:28):
that is true?" So in this case,"I fuck up our taxes every time"
might turn into a thoughtthat's,"I don't actually, but I
am stressed every time." And youcan see how that second thought
has so much more power than thefirst thought, which is a, a
thought that just shuts youdown.
Why are you ever gonna do yourtaxes if you fuck them up every
time?
But if you're like,"I don't fuckthem up, but I know I stress out
(05:48):
about it," that gives you anopening to try again, to try to
get help.
With math, if you're like,"Inever get anything right," well,
why are you gonna bother trying?
Whereas if the thought changesto,"Well, sometimes I get things
right, but even when I do, I'mreally stressed," there is an
opening to actually keep trying.
Anyways, okay.
This was-- I'm gonna tell youwho this is because she has a
podcast.
this is Kristen, Modern MathTeacher podcast.
(06:10):
That's the person who sent methe message, so I just wanted to
share that.
So part of this is, why I'm sohappy I talked about it, I know
it was in a very public forum,but why I think it's important
to talk about these things, isbecause it reminds us that
feelings are not facts.
I'm gonna say that again.
Feelings are not facts, right?
Like, again, going back to whatKristen said.
Hi, Kristen, by the way.
(06:31):
Thank you so much for letting ususe you as a case study.
Um, this idea of I feel like Ifuck up my taxes every time."
The fact is that I don't, right?
And that, and sitting in thatreally changes things.
It doesn't necessarily make thefeeling go away, but it
certainly takes the temperaturedown.
It takes the charge out of thefeeling because now you're like,
(06:51):
"Ugh, this feeling feels icky,but I do...
a part of me knows it is notrooted in truth." And for me,
hearing from you guys, like,that validation of like,"I feel
this way, too." Like, there arelots of people that feel this
way who you, Vanessa, wouldconsider organized.
That took the charge away fromme being like,"Oh my God.
I feel disorganized.
I'm such a hot mess," to beinglike,"Okay, I feel disorganized,
(07:14):
but objectively, my life is nota mess.
My taxes, I, I didn't, I didn'tfuck them up." And other people
feel this way tru- too who areorganized, so the fact that you
feel disorganized does not meanthat you are disorganized.
The fact that you feel thatyou're bad at math does not mean
that you are bad at math.
And that is why I always say theemotional component of math
(07:37):
learning is so important,because it is not always rooted
in ability and technicality andskill.
It is not always rooted in theactual math doing.
It is rooted in these feelingsaround it that have to be
addressed.
Okay.
Anyways.
I also wanna share three thingsI did after the episode that
(07:57):
helped, because I am now comingto you in a state where I'm no
longer in the spiral.
I'm actually pretty chill.
I mean, chill, I don't soundchill, and like, I'm never
really, like, chill.
But I'm like, I've definitely...
that whole organization pieceis, like, in the rear view
mirror.
I feel fine.
You know what I mean?
I'm still s- I still have thegeneral...
(08:17):
I think I always have thegeneral, like,"Oh, I'm kind of
behind, and I've got so much todo, and da da da da da," but
it's a very different qualitythan the panic I was feeling
when I recorded that otherepisode on May 7th.
So here are three things I did.
Because I think these arerelevant to any form of anxiety
and very relevant to mathanxiety, because math anxiety is
(08:38):
just another form of anxiety.
So while I'm listing thesethings, I'm gonna try to tie
them into how I would u-Because, you know, the truth is,
I wrote Math Therapy from aplace of knowing so much about
math anxiety, helping so manystudents through math anxiety,
research on math anxiety, and myown experience with math anxiety
and other anxiety.
You know, every time I, uh, do atalk or talk to somebody or do
(09:00):
an interview, everyone usuallyis like,"Oh, interesting," like,
yeah, this is about math, but,you know, this can be applied to
anything.
And so I'm gonna actually tryand go through these and even,
like, share how, how either thisstrategy came out of the
classroom or how I would use itin the classroom or with someone
with math anxiety.
Okay.
First thing I did was myth bust.
(09:20):
If you guys know my book, that'sactually the first step of math
therapy, the first M of maththerapy.
There's five Ms.
The first one is myth busting.
It is busting the myths you holdaround your beliefs.
So in my book, I talk about mythbusting the fact that there is
such a thing as this person whocan do math, right?
Like, how do we bust that myth?
(09:41):
How do we get that out ofsomeone's head so that they can
see themselves as somebody whodoes math?
And then there's so many otherthings you have to bust, right?
There's so many other myths thatyou have to kind of, like, bust
in order to make that true foryou.
And myth busting is really justfact-checking.
So the first thing I did is,it's kind of funny, like, this
is, this is really, like,aligning with what Kristen said
(10:03):
here.
The first thing I actually didwas I spoke to my accountant.
So I, I don't have an accountantbecause, as you know, in my last
episode, I was like,"So ifanyone's an accountant, please
contact me." No one hascontacted me, though.
I'm really looking for anaccountant.
I spoke to an accountant for mybusiness, my tutoring business.
Anyways, I spoke to him.
He doesn't do my personal taxes,but I was like,"Can you just
(10:24):
take a look at what I've done?
And, and let me-- can I ask yousome questions?" Because so much
of my spiral was around just,like, I, there's things I didn't
understand around taxes, and Ithink when we don't understand
things, we create stories,right?
Like, that's kind of whathappens is we don't understand
things, so we either createstories about how those things
work, or we go into fear mode,right?
(10:45):
Like,"I don't understand howthis works, so I must be doing
something wrong." So I spoke tomy accountant and actually asked
some questions, and he actuallyexplained in a very kind and
informative way and a way thatdid not make me feel dumb.
Thank you so much, Vincenzo, ifyou're listening.
He's definitely not listening.
Um, I actually asked him to comeon the podcast, and he was like,
before I even finished thequestion, he was like,"Nope."
(11:06):
Anyways, so now I had someactual facts.
I wasn't just assuming that myfinances were a mess.
I had some actual facts, and waslike,"Honestly," like,"yeah,"
like,"this looks fine." And alsoThere aren't that many hard--
like, there aren't many- thatmany ways to do this.
Like, I was like,"But should Ibe doing this?
Should I be declaring this asthis?
Should this be in thiscategory?" And he was like,
(11:27):
"That's actually not how itworks." Like, he explained some
things I really had notunderstood, and really
de-escalated me.
Like, I was like, at the end ofit, I was like,"Oh," like, maybe
there's a couple things I coulddo differently next year, but
I'm not doing anything, like,crazy wrong." And,"Oh, I didn't
realize the system worked inthis way." So that was really
helpful to just fact-check, mythbust, right?
Like, myth bust the idea that,like, I'm doing all this stuff
(11:50):
wrong, and, like, making up howthings work at the CRA or the
IRS, if you're American, orwhere- whatever, whatever.
And this is, to me, really likeclarifying something for a
student.
I remember when I was, like, atthe height of my failing math,
the thing that got me wasquadratics.
I had no clue.
I was like,"It's this crazyfucking thing.
(12:12):
I have no idea how to do it.
There's like 5,000 steps." And Iremember when my friend Emily
actually tutored me.
She was my first, tutor.
I remember she, like,demystified it for me, I think
it was, like, factoringquadratics or it was the
quadratic formula.
She was like,"Find A, B, and C,plug them into the quadratic
formula." And I was like Oh myGod, this is actually quite
simple.
(12:32):
It just felt like such a mess'cause I didn't understand it,
and there was these, like, Xsquares and this parabola, and
like, that formula, thequadratic formula looks fucking
insane, right?
You're like,"Oh my God." ButI...
Like, she just taught me step bystep how to do it, and it
completely took the temp- turnedthe temperature down, and I was
like,"Oh, wow," right?
So that to me is very similarto, to me talking to my
accountant.
(12:52):
The second thing I did to mythbust how I was feeling, this was
a big one, guys.
I surveyed people.
I surveyed people who Iconsidered very organized people
who are on top of shit, and Isurveyed them about their to-do
lists.
That was my obsession if yourecall.
I was like,"I don't have theright to-do list system," like,
da, da, da, da, da.
So I asked people.
I was like,"What to-do list doyou use?
How do you organize yourself?"Okay.
(13:14):
Here's what I learned.
I thought there was, like, somemiracle, like, solution to all
of this.
Like, s- people were gonna belike,"It's this app," and like,
"This is how I use it." No.
Person number one, okay, myfriend Lee, she was like,"I just
put things in a GoogleCalendar." I was like,"What do
you mean?" She was like,"I justput the things I have to do in a
Google Calendar, and every day Iwrite down the three things I'm
(13:36):
gonna do that day." And I waslike,"Okay." My friend Carrie,
honestly one of the mostorganized people I know, she was
like,"I write things down.
Everything is handwritten." Iwas like,"How, how are you doing
that?" Like, handwriting, like,what if you have to change
things around?
This did not seem to be aproblem for her.
She was like,"I write the thingsdown.
You know, they're next to mycomputer, and I have them
(13:57):
written down." My friend Johnny,he was like,"I use the Apple's
native, Reminders app." Like, noone actually that I talked to
used a crazy app.
I'm the one with the crazy app.
I've been using Trello.
I have, like, 40 lists I'm,like, reorgan- Like, it didn't
really seem that way.
Like, no one had this magicalfix, like, you know what I mean?
(14:18):
And so here's what I realized.
Every single person had adifferent method, but every
person had one thing in common,and that thing in common was
every single one of them, everysingle one of them was like,"And
every day I look at that list, Imaybe reorganize some stuff, and
I write down the top threethings I need to get done that
day." And I was like, wow.
(14:41):
Okay.
So here's what's happening.
Here's what's happening.
It's not actually about thetool.
Like, I have a tool.
They all have a tool.
It's about using the toolproperly.
This actually reminds me...
Holy shit, I did not think I wasgonna make this connection.
This reminds me of my interviewwith Curtis Brown from Texas
Instruments if you haven'tlistened to that one yet, that
is called Oh, This Will Changethe Way You Think About
(15:03):
Calculators with Curtis Brown.
That was April, in April, April9th.
This reminds me of that becausewe were talking about
calculators in this way of like,people wanna hate on the
calculators or like...
You know what I mean?
And be like,"Oh, calculators areresponsible for kids not knowing
math," da, da, da, da, da.
And the whole thing of thatepisode was like, it's not about
the tool.
You can actually have acalculator and get all the math
wrong.
(15:23):
If anybody, teaches trig, youknow this, right?
I've had students get answers toan entire test wrong because
their calculator was in radiansinstead of degrees.
Like you, if you know, you know.
You know what I mean?
Like, you can, or you can get amillion things wrong by not
using brackets, and yourcalculator, you have one of the
versions that doesn't haveBEDMAS on it.
Like, do you know what I mean?
This is what I learned.
I'm like, I have the tool.
(15:45):
I don't need to be spending moretime looking for a new to-do
list app.
I'm not using my tool properly.
And guys, I have to be honest,I'm still not.
Like, for the first couple ofdays after I learned this, I was
like, all right, get up in themorning, look at your list,
reorganize things, move, youknow, prioritize, pick three
things to do.
I did it for two days.
It was amazing.
I stopped doing it, and now I'mlike, oh God, I'm like so off
track.
What am I supposed to be doing?
(16:06):
And it's like I'm just not usingthe tool properly.
And I think that is also reallyso...
Like, the lesson there is crazybecause it's like students have
the tools.
They have their Chromebooks.
They have Desmos, like whatever,and so then they feel kind of
dumb because they're like,"Well,it's not working," and it's, it
could be because they don't knowhow to use the tool properly.
You know where I actually thinkthis comes across the most?
(16:27):
Is in the concept of studying,right?
Students will be like,"Well, I'mstudying." Like,"I'm..." You
know what I mean?
They're studying, and then theydon't get the results they want,
and then they're like,"See?
I can't do it." But then youfind out that their version of
studying was reading the notesover and over again or doing
questions and never checking thesolutions, so they never knew
they were doing the questionswrong.
(16:47):
And you're like, oh, you'redoing the thing, but you're not
doing it in an effective way,and if I could just show you
this tweak, that would changeeverything.
But there's nothing like feelinglike you're doing the thing and
not getting the results youwant.
And for, in my case, I was like,I have this to-do list.
It's so...
Like, I add the things to it.
I have them organized by date.
And it's like, yeah, but Iwasn't using the tool
effectively.
(17:07):
So myth-busting all of that wasso helpful, and can I tell you
something else?
Every per- every one of thesepeople I talk to were like, you
know, I also feel disorganized.
I also feel like I'm jugglingstuff, and like, I don't..." You
know, they were like,"I don'talways get everything done on my
to-do list." And I was like, oh,okay, so it's not a personal
failing if I don't geteverything done on my to-do
list.
It's not a personal failing ifyou make some mistakes in math
(17:28):
class, right?
Like, I think we just have thisassumption that other people do
these things to perfection.
Okay, so that was the firstthing I did, myth-bust the myth
of the tool, myth-bust the ideathat everyone else has a better
system than me, myth-bust thefact that because I didn't
understand all my taxes, I wasdoing them wrong, myth-bust some
of my actual beliefs about howtaxes work.
(17:50):
Step number two was organize,but more importantly, I
prioritized.
I did that for a couple of daysas you just know, right?
Like, I was trying toincorporate prioritizing as more
of a routine, this dailyroutine.
That is the key of what everyonetold me, and I have to say, I've
fallen off the wagon there.
But when I was doing that, itreally, really did help, you
know?
So there was that piece.
(18:12):
And then there was also thepiece of I get in the habit of,
like, something might not be apriority, but it's easier to do,
so I'll do that thing instead,being like,"Oh, well, I'm doing
stuff on my to-do list." Butthen I end the day stressed
because I haven't done the onething that I really needed to
get done or wanted to get donethat was hard, right?
Like, I do find that even if Ido, like, 10 tasks, but I don't
do the one thing that I'm reallyavoiding, I feel uneasy, right?
(18:35):
And it's like, this is likeclassic to-do list psychology.
Like, you're supposed to, like,put this thing on the top of
your list that's like,"If I getthis one thing done today, I'll
feel amazing," right?
Or like, like all these otherpeople, put their top three
things they really wanna getdone.
This is exactly like math to me,exactly.
Because students will doquestions.
Again, they'll study, they'll doall these questions, but they
(18:55):
won't do the ones that they hateor that they're really avoiding,
and then they still don't getthat feeling of accomplishment
or confidence because they kindaknow in the back of their heads
there's this thing lurking thatthey don't understand how to do.
So, like, I think this is areally good method, especially
if you are, you're stillassigning homework or you want
students to do practiceproblems.
Maybe we could actually...
That would be cool.
Maybe we could treat our, ourassigning of practice to
(19:17):
students this way.
Like, teach them the skill ofbeing, like, put the top three
problems on your list that youwill feel amazing if you solve,
and then put everythingunderneath that, right?
As opposed to being like,"Here'sa sheet of practice problems.
Just work through them inorder." Like, teach them how to
prioritize what would be mo-most important for their
self-efficacy and skillbuilding.
And so that, I think, was, like,kind of a big deal for me to
(19:40):
realize, and I'm still workingon it.
And I remember I listened tothis episode of Mel Robbins, and
she was talking to, I can'tremember.
I really can't remember.
I'll get David to put it in theshow notes.
She was talking to, maybe it wasSeth Godin.
That name rings a bell.
and he said something like,"Youknow, everyone dies with a to-do
list." And I was like,"Oh myGod." Right?
It's not like people, like, atsome point in their lives are
(20:02):
like,"Well, yeah, all right.
I've got nothing else to do.
There's nothing else on thelist.
Like, I guess I'm done." No.
We live full lives, and we'reconstantly coming up with ideas
and more things to do.
Like, we replenish our to-dolist the second it's empty.
So to remember, like, we'realways gonna feel that way To
some degree, that we're not doneeverything, and that's a good
(20:23):
thing.
I think that's actually a giftto be like,"Wow, there's so much
I wanna do." It's more abouttaking away the feeling of guilt
of not doing those things andbeing like,"Yeah, there's so
much I wanna do because I'm ahuman being with ideas." Like,
cool.
Like, awesome.
Whatever I get done is great.
You know what I mean?
And of course, there's thingsyou have to get done, but most
stuff I realized on my list,that was another thing about
prioritizing.
(20:43):
Like, as soon as I wrote orrecorded that meltdown episode,
I went to my list and was like,"I'm moving everything that is
not essential to anon-essentials list." And it was
hard.
I'd be like,"Oh, but I reallywanna...
Oh, but it'd be so cool if I didthat.
Oh, but..." It's like, yes, butis this essential?
No.
And once I...
Like, I wanted to get my frienda gift.
I'm like, I, oh, but it'sactually not essential.
(21:04):
It'd be nice if I got her agift, but it wasn't essential.
So I moved everything to thatlist, and when I saw the
essential stuff left on my list,I was like, okay, I have space
for maybe five more things.
Then I could go to thenon-essentials list and move a
couple things over that I reallywanted to do.
But to keep being like, I onlyneed to look at the essentials
part of my list, and only if Ihave time do I look at the rest,
(21:25):
that was important.
Okay, so step number one, thefirst thing I did was myth bust.
The second was organize, butmore importantly, prioritize.
And the third is I released thepressure so I could actually get
to work.
This was a huge deal.
I was spiraling.
You guys heard me.
I was spiraling.
I could not do anything.
All I was doing was moving shitaround on my to-do list.
That's all I was doing, movingshit, moving shit, moving shit.
(21:46):
Like, it was like I couldn'tactually do any of the things on
the list.
And I released the pressure.
Like, first of all, I vented onthe podcast, and I have to be
honest, like, that is the thingthat for me, like we're all
different, but outer processingis the thing for me that helps
me clarify.
Like, some people clarifythrough journaling.
(22:07):
Actually, side note, guys, thisis really important for me to
say.
I used to be the most prolificjournaler.
I have, like, literally boxes ofjournals from, like, high school
onwards, you know what I mean?
Like, I have so many books, andI, every time I try to journal
lately, I have to stop becausemy hand hurts, and the other
day, I went to write someone abirthday card, and 30 seconds
(22:27):
in, like, I c- my hand hurt somuch.
And you know what I realized?
My hand hurts because I don'tever engage in the act of
writing, so my hand muscles donot know how to do that task
anymore.
How fucked is that?
It's been that long since I'vewritten something that my hand
hurts after th- 30 seconds.
And so, like, that means I haveto start...
(22:49):
like, I, I, I felt like that wasvery disturbing to me.
Like, I was like, this isactually messed up.
So I really, I don't wanna addthis to my to-do list, but I
really do think I need topractice writing for, like, 60
seconds a day and start buildingup.
It's like going to the gym formy hand.
I'm not committing to doingthis.
I'm just telling you.
Anyways, okay, the point is-That my, like, outer processing
for me is so essential.
Like, you guys heard probably inthat meltdown episode, why smart
(23:12):
people still feel out of controland what to do about it.
I s- was de-escalated by theend.
I was really a lot calmer, andfor me, outer processing is
really the thing.
It's releasing that pressure.
And for others it might not be,like, start chatting live on a
podcast.
It might be chatting with afriend, journaling, using a
productivity app, an AIassistant.
Like, whatever will help you getthose feelings out.
(23:36):
I mean, I love talking to afriend and, and hearing that
reflected back.
Like, even surveying people andtelling them how I felt really,
really helped me, and it really,really took the pressure off so
I co- actually focus on the taskat hand and see things more
clearly.
And in Math Therapy, I call thisde-escalation, right?
Like, we know that when we're ina state of anxiety, when we're
(23:57):
in one of the four traumaresponses, fight, flight,
freeze, or fawn, which I was inmany of those, right?
Like, I was, like, teeteringbetween, like, flight and just
being like,"Fuck this, I don'twanna do anything." Like,
freeze, not being able to do athing.
Fight, like, literally being sopissed off and angry that I was
this way.
Like, when we're in one ofthose, we can't actually do the
thing we need to help ourselves.
(24:17):
So for me, outer processingreally helped take the
temperature down.
That's why one of, like, mybiggest things I suggest in Math
Therapy is when a student or aperson is just like,"I can't do
this.
I suck at this," is just beinglike,"Hey, hold on a second.
Like, do you really feel thatway?
Like, tell me why." Or,"Did youh- have you had, like, bad
experiences in math?" Or,"Canyou remember a time when you
didn't feel this way?" Helpingsomebody else engage in
(24:40):
conversation is so helpful forthem because clarity often comes
as they are talking, right?
It doesn't come from us tellingsomeone.
It comes from them revealing tothemselves how they feel.
And that's also why Math Therapyjournaling is such a big deal
for me.
Like, as you guys know, I have,like, pages and pages of journal
prompts.
Maybe I'll make those availableat some point.
If you guys want them, text thepodcast if you're like,"I would
(25:02):
love a journal prompt," and I'llfind a way to make those
available.
Right now they're just availableif you have my book, but I can
just make a link available.
Anyways, journaling, talking,that kind of stuff is so
important for so many people torelease the pressure, right?
Often when we talk it all out,we're like,"Okay, I can kinda
see more clearly," or at least Ifeel seen and witnessed.
I think that's honestly probablya big thing for me, is, like,
(25:27):
why I like talking to people somuch more, whether it's a friend
or whether it's on the podcast.
There is something really,really validating about being
witnessed in your anxiety, ofhaving somebody else see you
hear you, acknowledge you,validate you, right?
And even better if someone canrelate to you.
In trauma-informed education, wetalk about this a lot of like
(25:49):
students needing to be witnessedoften.
Like, if a student is acting upin class or they're exhibiting
off-task behavior, often theyreally do need to be witnessed
in that, right?
Because e- even though it can bereally distracting to the class,
to have a conversation with themabout it, to say,"I acknowledge
that something's going on withyou," like, you know, that kind
of idea can really, really behelpful to someone's healing.
(26:11):
So just throwing that out there.
Okay.
Wow.
We did it.
I went through the things.
I'm at, 30 minutes here, but,you know, David's probably taken
some stuff out.
So just to recap, those threethings, myth busting, organizing
and prioritizing, releasing thepressure so I could actually get
to work.
I do honestly feel so muchbetter, but I will say the
(26:32):
thing, the fourth thing, and theway I'm gonna end this episode,
the fourth thing I did is Ibooked a vacation.
Guys, I'm serious.
I booked a vacation.
I have not been on vacationsince I went to Bali last March.
I've not even taken a two-dayvacation, so I'm really, really,
really, really so excited.
(26:53):
I'm going away for a week, andthat means there will be no
episode next week.
However, however, and I have totell you guys something, so when
I book vacations, I only haveone rule, okay?
And my rule is, is I'm notallowed to do anything
productive.
Like, I cannot produce anythingbecause, like, this is my...
Right?
I'm not allowed to be looking atmy to-do list.
(27:13):
I cannot be answering emails,like, unless they're urgent.
Like, I'm actually gonna try tobe really strict about this.
It's one week, right?
Which I'm nervous about, but I'malso like, I know I need it so
badly.
So for that reason, there is notgonna be an episode next week,
but, but, but I actually havereally, really exciting news.
So a couple of months ago, I didthis top-secret thing with
(27:33):
Imagine Learning.
It was the coolest thing.
They literally showed up to mytutoring center.
They flew here from Scotland,from Texas, from other parts in
the US.
A group of like, I can'tremember how many.
It doesn't matter.
A group of them flew here, cameto my tutoring studio so that I
could give their host, LaurenKeeling, live math therapy for a
(27:55):
three-part series they're doingon math anxiety.
Guy, this is not a regular pod-Like, I love our podcast.
Our podcast is great.
This is next fucking level.
Like, if you listen to, like,Serial or Wondery or, like, True
Crime, that is what theirpodcast is like.
It is unbelievable.
It is a tale.
Like, and it's a three-partseries, okay?
(28:15):
So the first episode drops- Itdropped yesterday.
Okay?
So that kind of sets the stage,and at the end there's a little
trailer for next week's episode,which will be clips of, it'll
be, like, a big chunk of me andthe host Lauren Keeling doing
Math Therapy.
But there will also be soundbites and parts with Deborah
Peart, who we love, the Matherqueen, and a therapist, Emma
(28:39):
Fogel, who was one of my firststudents.
So it's gonna be an epicepisode, and it drops next
Wednesday.
So, like, if you wanted yourThursday fix of Math Therapy,
you could just wait tillThursday and download it then,
or you could listen to it onWednesday.
So it's the Imagine LearningPodcast.
It's called Heart Work.
I'll put the link in the shownotes so you can actually catch
up on yesterday's episode so youcan be ready for next week.
(29:01):
And at the end of it all, theyare going to be releasing, we're
gonna be co-releasing a fullvideo episode of me giving
Lauren Keeling straight MathTherapy for 40 minutes.
Guys, I'm telling you, thisthing is a masterpiece.
They were at my tutoring centerfor literally eight hours.
Okay?
Like, they flew to Toronto.
They were there for eight hours.
We did so much fun stuff.
It is like a, it's a trueproduction.
(29:23):
Someone needs to give us aNetflix show.
I am literally manifesting thatinto the world.
Okay, so we'll be taking nextweek off, but you're gonna go
listen to Heart Work instead,and then we'll be back the
following week with anotherinterview.
I've got a couple of interviewsbanked that are just incredible.
And remember, another TexasInstruments giveaway will be
coming in June, and I'm doing abonus Texas Instruments giveaway
(29:44):
on Instagram in a couple ofweeks, so make sure you're
following me@themathguru.
Oh my God.
Guys, thank you all forlistening, for all the
encouraging words about thepodcast.
It means so much to see how manyof you are listening, to hear
how the podcast is helping somany people.
It just, it's helping me, sothank you guys so much.
And thank you for the h-hundred-plus of you who texted
(30:05):
the podcast to enter thegiveaway.
You now all know how to text thepodcast.
So text me.
Text me, tell me what you lovedabout this episode.
Tell me what you wanna hear anepisode on.
Like, I am always like,"Ugh,like I wanna do solo episodes,
but I don't know about what." Soif there's something you'd like
to hear me talk about, let meknow.
I love you guys so much.
You rock.
You can find the link to textthe podcast in the show notes.
(30:26):
You can DM me at themathguru onInstagram.
Have an amazing week.
Take some time for self-care,even if it's five minutes or an
hour or a weekend or a week,just make sure that you don't
end up like me two weeks ago.
And thank you guys so much forbeing a part of my weekly
healing.
(30:50):
Today's episode is a quickepisode to say hello, Gemini
season.
May 21st.
during Gemini season, we're up,we're down, we're all over the
place.
we are celebrating the twins.
We are celebrating duality, andthat's why this is gonna be an,
a mishmash episode, anepisode...
Okay, that was not in David'soutline, by the way.
That was ad lib in case you werewondering.
David was not like,"Talk aboutGemini season."
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