April 23, 2026 • 27 mins
Send us a text! (US messaging rates apply)
Ever since we introduced the above link to text the podcast, Vanessa has been obsessed with getting listeners to do so. And guess what - tons of you have! So today she reads a bunch of them on a range of topics like:
- the problem with labels like "gifted"
- gaining math confidence later in life
- neuroplasticity and thinking processes
- who is Sister Beth?! (seriously, we need to send her a book)
Also, you can now not only text us but leave us a voicenote! Just hit the link at the top of this description and we may include your text/voicenote on a future episode.
Contact us:
- Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
- Math Therapy: Text the Podcast
More Math Therapy:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vanessa Vakharia (00:04):
Okay guys, it is Vanessa and we are here for
another week of Math Therapy.
And let me tell you, we arelegitimately doing something we
have never done before.
Okay, if you are a long timelistener, or if you literally
have only listened to oneepisode, you will know that I
will not shut up about textingthe podcast.
I'm always like, oh my God, textthe podcast this.
Oh my God.
Share this episode with a friendand then text the podcast and
(00:26):
send me a message and text thepodcast and text the podcast if
you think this, and text thepodcast if you want another
guest.
And like I'm obsessed with youguys texting the podcast.
And let me tell you that today,this is finally going to pay
off.
Because guess what?
A bunch of you have been textingthe podcast since this feature
was introduced, like threemonths ago, and now I have a
bunch of texts from you.
(00:46):
And today we are going to do amailbag episode where I read out
some of these incredible textsand I respond to them in real
time, live on the podcast.
Before I continue, I actuallyhave a ton of these texts.
So I'm only gonna do a few ofthem today.
I'm gonna do a few of themanother day.
But I actually have to tell youthat now not only can you text
(01:07):
the podcast, you can do myfavorite fucking thing, which is
you can send the podcast a voicenote.
Sorry, I got so excited there.
I couldn't even say it.
You can send us a voice note.
So now when you go to the yourapp or wherever you're listening
right now, there will be like athing that says like, send us a
text or send us a message.
I don't know what it says.
You can click on that and youcan now either send us a text or
(01:27):
you can send us a voice note.
Final thing I'm gonna say, Iknow that many of you are
probably like, I sent a text amillion years ago.
What happened to it?
We can't respond to the text.
We can only see the text.
But in addition to the voicenote feature, we can now respond
to your text.
I'm not actually saying we'regoing to respond to your text.
We might never respond to yourtext, but we are getting them
and maybe we'll respond to themlive.
(01:48):
I'm gonna stop now, but I willsay one other thing.
I also want you to be able totext or voice note the podcast
without the pressure of beinglike, oh my God, she's gonna
play this live.
If you do not want me to likesay your text out loud or play
your voice note live, just sayso in your text or voice note.
I'm done.
Are we ready for text numberone?
(02:08):
All the way from Phoenix,Arizona.
Anonymous, no name.
I was slash am a gifted learnerand was placed in a gifted
class.
I was always so afraid in math.
I was put with kids a year olderand always felt like I didn't
belong.
I could not memorize my factsand remember being in high
school, counting on my fingers.
(02:28):
So even though I was labeledgifted, it was a huge struggle
for me.
Now as a teacher who has taughtkinder, then fourth math for 10
years before moving to aposition where I see multiple
grades and teach eighth gradealgebra, now I see how these
kids' perceptions of what theycan do has changed so much
between kinder to eighth.
I just would love to know yourthoughts on gifted programs and
(02:50):
placements and supporting eventhese gifted kids who the world
labels as high potential andneglects to see that they too
struggle and in my experience,need Math Therapy the most.
Okay.
First of all, whoever sent thistext, I am so with you.
Okay.
This one is actually really,really, interesting.
Because I always say that one ofthe major causes of math trauma
(03:13):
is actually simply beinglabeled.
It doesn't matter what you'relabeled, right?
It doesn't matter if the labeledis quote unquote, a good label
or quote unquote, a bad label.
When we are labeled, all of asudden we are put into a box.
And whether it's a box we arewillingly walking into or a box
that we are unwillingly enclosedin, it is still a box.
A box is limiting.
(03:34):
A box has walls, a box is acertain size.
So anytime we suddenly feel likewe no longer fit that box that
we have been put into, it causessome sort of crisis of identity.
It causes us to feel like wedon't belong and this happens so
often with the gifted label.
There's actually a lot ofresearch right now from kids who
were once labeled as gifted.
(03:54):
I will admit, I actually was ina gifted program for grade seven
and eight.
There's a lot of researchshowing that these kids will
say, it was one of the worstthings that happened to me.
What does gifted mean?
What does it mean?
Think about it.
Being gifted is supposed toimply that you have a gift.
Not that you've developed orlike earned or conjured this
gift, but you have been bornwith this gift.
(04:16):
You are this like smart, aboveintelligent person of some sort.
So what happens is, when kidsfeel like they're not living up
to the gift or they startstruggling in math class,
instead of feeling like, oh,this is just like struggle,
like, oh, this is just like amistake I made a year ago, oh,
this is just another challenge,they often feel like, oh shit.
(04:37):
I guess I've lost the gift.
The gift has expired.
It's over.
My time is done.
Because giftedness impliesinnateness.
It implies nature over nurture.
And, and this happens a lot.
You will see this with kids whoare the quote unquote smart kid
or who haven't struggled in mathtraditionally, and then suddenly
they hit a concept or a gradewhere they struggle, all of a
(04:58):
sudden, because they haven'tbeen taught intelligence or math
ability are things that arebuilt and they can construct and
they can continue to evolve,they start thinking, I've lost
it.
My time is done.
I'm only smart up to a certainlevel, and I'm not meant to
exceed that level.
To me, the gifted label actuallyimposes on kids a whole other
(05:21):
level of imposter syndromebecause now you're being told
you are supposed to not needsupport in math, you're supposed
to be more mathematicallycapable than your peers that are
not in that classroom.
So now when you struggle or youface a challenge, now you're an
imposter not only tomathematics, but to the gifted
(05:42):
population, right?
Like you're like now, I'm notonly an imposter in math class,
I'm an imposter in this giftedclass.
I'm an imposter to mathematicsand to giftedness.
Just because someone looks likethey've got it all together, it
doesn't mean they're not fallingapart inside.
And just because a kid isgetting a good grade, it doesn't
mean they actually understandthe concepts.
Often you can get a good gradejust by following patterns and
(06:02):
formulas and mimicking aprocedure and not conceptually
understanding.
Just like all of that.
Just because a kid is labeledgifted, or getting a good grade,
or is labeled, quote, I'm usingair quotes a lot here, smart, it
doesn't mean that they're notstruggling.
It doesn't mean that they're notanxious.
It doesn't mean that theiridentity is not in need of
repair.
(06:23):
So thank you so much for sendingthat in.
It is something we don't talkabout enough and I'm really,
really glad you brought it up.
Okay.
Onto text number two.
Hi, my name is Juliette and I'man educator in Albuquerque, New
Mexico.
I recently found and love yourpodcast.
I have a like mindset and take asimilar educational approach
with my students.
My teaching journey has led mefrom tolerating math to honestly
(06:44):
falling in love with it.
I've worked in elementary,middle school, and I'm starting
as a high school math teacherthis January.
Your podcast has pumped me up.
Thank you for the work you'redoing.
Ugh.
I mean, I love to hear it.
Juliet, thank you so much forsending this in because this is
exactly what I mean when I saywe can all build better,
healthier, happier relationshipswith math.
(07:06):
Our relationship with math isnot fixed, and I love that you
pointed out that you went fromtolerating it to loving it,
right?
That is what an identity shiftis all about.
When we talk about buildinghealthier math identities, we
are talking not only about theperson who goes from hating math
to tolerating math right, fromthe person who goes from hating
(07:26):
math to at least giving math atry.
That, by the way, is a veryimportant identity shift, but
when we can then take that nextleap from tolerating math to
loving it, that is a reallybeautiful thing.
And Juliet, thank you forreminding us all that.
It is possible, and it'spossible because you didn't just
become a different person.
You had a different experienceof math that led you to becoming
(07:47):
who you are today.
Okay, so we are moving on totext number three.
And I'd like to point out, wejust went from like the, I'm
gifted, but I'm still strugglingand moved on to a big identity
piece of like, I used to hatemath and now I love it.
And now I wanna dig a littleinto a couple of texts that
point to what's underneath allthat.
And we are gonna go over to atext from my hometown, Toronto,
(08:10):
Ontario.
Okay.
Finally, catching up on my to-dolist listen.
I think the nature versusnurture debate for being a math
person or a music person or amemory person is a false
dichotomy.
I'm no brain scientist, butsince there's no math gene, all
got to be brain-based, right?
So if neuroplasticity is at sucha peak in childhood and
adolescence, students can buildmath identity and ability at
(08:31):
those stages of life reallyeasily.
Adults can still train theirbrains, but they're a bit less
flexible.
So back it up into infancy andinto the womb, and it's all
about neurons and brainconnections.
It's all neuroplasticity atevery stage, and at some stages
we have more of it and others wehave less of it, but it's all
the same mechanism.
That's what makes sense to meanyway.
Okay, so here's what I'mthinking with this one.
(08:53):
I love that this person actuallysaid, I'm no brain scientist,
right in their text.
Because guess what?
Neither am I.
I think this was in response tomy interview with Dr.
Sarah McKay, which was calledwhat neuroscience actually says
about gender and math.
So I would actually go back tothat episode, and listen to it
again because Dr.
(09:13):
Sarah McKay is a neuroscientistand she addresses a lot of this.
I think what I'd wanna zoom outa bit on this, is this.
Yes, we're talking aboutneuroplasticity and we're
talking about brain wiring andsuch, but what we're really
talking about and what you'retalking about in this text,
mysterious Toronto author, isthat experience and emotion and
(09:34):
identity all merge together andplay a role in not only our math
ability, but in the way we endup feeling about math, right?
Two kids can be born withsimilar brain potentials and
they might have completelydifferent math identities
depending on the experience theyhave with math.
So yes, it is brain-based andit's brain-based, because we're
(09:56):
talking about neuroplasticity,we're talking about things
happening in the brain withregards to learning, but.
I think we have to be verycareful with the mechanism by
which that takes place.
I don't think, I mean, Idefinitely don't know what it
is, that's why I talk to expertsabout how it works.
But I think the key takeaway isgo listen to that episode with
Dr.
Sarah McKay because she reallyaddresses in their how much of
(10:20):
math ability has to do withgenetics, like how much it has
to do with the brain you're bornwith, and how much of it has to
do with like yes, like thingsare happening in your brain, but
those things are malleabledepending on the experiences you
have.
It's a nurture versus natureargument.
And I don't even wanna sayargument.
It's a nurture versus naturediscussion.
(10:40):
So yes, brain base as in thingsare happening in our brain, but
really experience and emotionand identity shapes so much of
what our math ability turns outbecoming, how it manifests in
reality.
Okay.
Let's move on to another textfrom Toronto, Ontario.
I'm not being biased, I swearthese ones were just very juicy.
(11:03):
One important idea for showingyour thinking is that kids often
can't explain their thinking orshow their steps because math is
so naturally human and kids arenatural mathematicians who've
been sold a story that math issomething out there with steps
and symbols that must bememorized.
The math itself is intuitive andkids can demonstrate pretty
sophisticated algebraicreasoning skills if approached
(11:23):
visually instead ofsymbolically.
So instead of saying that theyneed to learn how to show their
thinking or explain their steps,I tell my students that they
have to learn the arbitrarysymbolic representations that
people have assigned to thegreat mathematical thinking that
they already know how to do.
The math is in them.
It's a natural way that humansmake sense of their world.
They just need to learn tolisten to themselves first and
(11:45):
fit the notation and symbols toit later.
Honestly, this is a really,really interesting take and I
think probably many of us wouldagree.
There's been a lot ofconversation around getting kids
to think.
I think that actually, there'stwo ways I wanna talk about
this.
The first is there's so muchdiscourse right now around being
like, kids are not thinking,they haven't been thinking, oh
(12:06):
my God, like we have suddenlyrealized they've never thought a
single thought, they've justbeen copying down every single
thing happening in math class.
And, I think we are just being alittle bit too extra with that.
And what I hear in this text isthis idea of like, kids are
thinking just because they can'tshow their thinking, it does not
mean that they are not thinking.
So I think that's the firstthing I wanna say is like, yeah,
(12:27):
I think a lot of kids, I mean, Ithink, I think there are some
kids and adults and who andlearners period who like, are
maybe doing a little mimickingand following procedures and
don't necessarily fullyconceptually understand every
mathematical concept.
I think there are a lot ofpeople who conceptually
understand it, but cannotexplain it to someone else or
show their thought process.
Doesn't mean they're notthinking.
(12:48):
Now this, because we did anentire episode about showing
your thinking, and that'sdefinitely what this is in
response to.
And I, the second piece of thisargument is not only are a lot
of kids thinking, but when theycan't show their thinking, it's
A, not because they're notthinking, but B, because sh they
don't know how to show theirthinking and the way we want
them to see it.
(13:09):
Right?
This writer is talking aboutusing the specific notation in
which we're asking them to showtheir thinking.
And I think this is a reallyinteresting point, like they're
saying here that what they saythere's to their students is,
Hey, I know you're thinking.
You just need to learn thearbitrary symbolic
representations that people haveassigned to the great
(13:29):
mathematical thinking that youknow.
That's what I'm here to teachyou.
I'm not teaching you how tothink you've already got this.
You're awesome.
You know how to think.
I'm gonna show you this likecode with which to demonstrate
to the rest of the world thatyou understand this concept.
I have to think about this.
I mean, I think it's, I thinkit's, yes.
I think there is a bit of thatfor sure.
And I actually kind of like thatapproach in the sense that
(13:49):
you're empowering them and beinglike, I already know that you
know how to think about thisthing.
I'm gonna give you some toolsthat I want you to show me your
thinking with.
But I also think it's about theconfidence, for kids to be like,
yeah, whatever way you'rethinking about this, whatever
way you got the answered, Irespect that.
You don't have to worry thatwhat's gonna come outta your
(14:10):
mouth is something I don't wantto hear.
So I actually think there's twopieces here.
Like I like that approach ofbeing like, I believe that you
know what you're doing and I'mgonna show you this notation
with which to show me.
But the thing I like most aboutthat piece is the confidence
you're giving the student.
To be like, I know you know whatyou're doing.
Sometimes it's hard to explainthe things we already
(14:31):
intuitively know, like that'shard for us.
And you know, I talked aboutthis in an episode with Cat and
Nat, the two moms, which wasvery controversial because they
were talking about how they hatealgebra, cause they hate the
letters, they were like talkingabout how they can't can't stand
the X and the Y.
And I was talking about how whenI taught algebra, I would always
introduce it to kids withemojis.
Like I'd be like two heart plus,three star equals, actually, you
(14:54):
can't do that.
That's like apples and oranges.
Okay.
But like, you know what I mean?
Like I'd be, I would do stufflike that.
I'd be like, I like, like Iwould do it to collect like
terms honestly.
So it's like two heart plus,three star plus four hearts,
plus two stars.
So that would be six hearts.
Why am I doing this in my head?
Why am I, but you know what I'msaying?
My point is it made it so mucheasier for them to be gathering
(15:18):
and collecting.
Right.
And I wonder if we can dosomething similar with showing
your thinking.
I wonder actually if the firststep before being like, I know
that you understand this and nowlet me teach you this notation
with which to show me, I wonderif the first step, which I know
many do anyways.
(15:38):
But I wonder if that like sortof like bridge is being like,
okay, I know you know you'rethinking something, you don't
know how to explain it.
Can you explain it to me in anywords you want?
Using any symbols you want.
And I think that is actuallywhat a lot of educators are
doing right now.
Being like, you can show me yourthinking in any way.
You can make me a TikTok to showme your thinking.
You can draw me a picture.
You can like do an interpretivedance.
(15:59):
Like, I don't know, do somethingto explain this concept to me in
your world.
And then we can move on to thelike, official way fine.
Like if you're doing proofs incollege, you can't like show me
that with an interpretive dance.
Although like, honestly, I wouldlike to see that.
So yeah, I feel like the firststepping stone is giving kids
the confidence.
Then it's allowing them to speakto you in their language.
It's their thinking.
(16:20):
They should be allowed to usetheir language and then we can
move on to like, let's show youhow to do it officially.
Okay, so let's move on to textnumber five from Nina, from
Langhorne, Pennsylvania.
I love saying these.
I haven't been to any of theseplaces except for Toronto.
Okay.
Oh my God.
We should do a podcast tourwhere I come to the places,
guys, this is my dream, I'mactually gonna say it right now.
(16:40):
I am manifesting a podcast tour.
That would be so cool.
Like.
I tour with a podcast.
Me and David like do shows anddo interviews by day and take
questions.
And then we play a show with ourband at night.
Oh my God.
Can't wait to play Langhorn,Pennsylvania.
Did I say Longhorn?
It's Langhorn.
Okay.
I started listening to theepisode about showing your work
as I was heading into a day ofgrade level meetings, discussing
(17:03):
work samples from students.
One suggestion I shared with afourth grade team was for
students to make a video onGoogle slide of their problem
solving steps and mathematicalthinking before they have to
write or type it out.
Then I heard your fourthstrategy of outer process.
Great minds think alike.
Thanks for sharing, Nina.
Okay, this is crazy because thisis basically exactly what I just
said.
(17:23):
Nina, you rock.
I first of all, Nina, if you'relistening, I would love to know
what happened with this idea.
Are they doing it?
Is your fourth grade teamallowing students to make videos
on Google slide of their problemsolving steps?
Because I love that.
This is the thing.
So in that episode about showingyour work, I was explaining that
speaking is lower pressure thanwriting.
(17:44):
Right?
Because like you don't have toput something down like, this is
why I like the podcast and Ireally like, uh, writing is
like, is just a lot for me.
It's a commitment.
You're putting words to paper.
You can see the words as theycome out.
That being said, a lot of peoplelove journaling.
Because they feel it allows themto outer process.
But honestly for most people,talking is a lot more low lift.
It just, it literally is lowereffort.
(18:05):
Right?
So I think there's two thingshere.
Some people might be morecomfortable just like writing it
all out in a journal format, andother people like me would be
more comfortable just saying itout loud, talking, making you a
video, explaining it to afriend.
Because when we outer process,thinking becomes visible and not
only does thinking becomevisible to the person listening
(18:27):
to us, it becomes visible to us.
As we hear the words coming outof our mouth, often that allows
our brain to process what it isthinking in real time in a real
tangible way.
So this goes exactly to what Isaid to who was it?
Who was this person from?
Toronto.
We don't know, there's no name.
But this is the same thing inwhatever way a student wants to
(18:50):
show their thinking, whateverthey feel is like their clutch
way to outer process that makesthem feel at home and less
anxious, that is the way theyshould be allowed to show their
thinking to start.
And, this actually to me, likeas I'm saying this, see, I'm
outer processing, I'm thinking,and I'm coming up with an idea
as I'm saying this, I'mthinking, what a great exercise
before, like when you start theyear or like when you start next
(19:12):
week, just sit with your classand be like, okay guys, let's do
a like little, like get to knowourselves.
What is each of our favorite,most comfortable way to explain
how we're thinking or what isour most comfortable way, if
you're having a problem and youcan't figure it out what it is,
and you don't know how you'refeeling, what's your favorite
way to figure it out?
Is it to A, talk to a friend.
(19:32):
B, curl up and write in yourjournal.
C, start ranting about it onsocial media.
DI don't know, some options likethis, and based on what they
say, turn that into anassignment of this is how you're
gonna show the way you arethinking about this problem.
The same way when you're in abad mood and you can't figure
out what's wrong, you wouldprocess that, do that with, this
(19:56):
is a great assignment idea.
Can you do guys, try this.
Try this.
Nina, thank you so much forwriting in.
Okay.
We only have two left and we arenow on text number six from
Atlanta, Georgia.
I was actually there for NCTMlast year.
I have no idea where this willend up, but I'll give it a shot.
I'm really hoping to get asigned Math Therapy book for my
son's teacher, who is that mathteacher, for our whole family.
(20:16):
Okay.
I'm already gonna cry.
She has completely turned mysons and my attitude around.
Last year we dreaded math.
We argued.
I complained.
You could feel the tensionwherever there was a math test.
In retrospect, I put so muchpressure on this one class.
This year, math is my son'sfavorite subject, and we work
together to figure it out.
We both talk about how far we'veboth come and can laugh at the
drama of third grade.
(20:37):
It has gone from impossible tofigureoutable because of Sister
Beth.
Yep.
The amazing math teacher whointroduced me to your book and
podcast is a nun.
Thank you for everything you do,and if there's any way to get a
signed book for Sister Beth,that would be amazing.
Guys.
Okay, so listen, there's noname.
I don't know who you are, but Iam praying.
See what I did there, um, sorry.
(21:01):
I honestly am praying that youare listening right now'cause I
would love to get a signed copyto Sister Beth, but I don't know
how.
I'm gonna be honest.
What I did after I read thistext is I tried to find Sister
Beth online.
I Googled Sister Beth MathAtlanta, Georgia.
And it just, nothing that cameup like seemed like it could
have been her.
(21:22):
Okay.
So if anyone who knows SisterBeth is listening, if anyone who
knows who the author of thistext is listening, if the author
of this text is listening, emailme vanessa@themathguru.ca with
your info and Sister Beth's infoand I will mail her a signed
copy.
This is so cool.
And what I all, guys, what Iwanna highlight for everyone is,
I love how you said in here sheis that math teacher for our
(21:42):
whole family and she hascompletely turned my son's and
my attitude around.
It just shows that that is MathTherapy in action.
You know that math trauma reallyis generational and it's never
too late.
It's never too late to fix yourrelationship with math.
That is honestly so cool.
Okay.
(22:02):
Final text of the day, fromSteve from Northern Minnesota:
i'm a new listener only aboutfive or six episodes so far.
I have severe math anxiety anddeep-seated math trauma for as
long as I can remember.
However, after reading the bookIs Math Real by Eugenia Chang,
and then hearing your interviewwith her, I feel there might be
hope for me yet.
I also just listened to thepreview of your new book and to
(22:25):
hear that there's no such thingas not a math person gives me
very positive vibes towardsmath.
I can't wait to read your bookand share it with my daughter
who has the same aptitudetowards math as myself.
I don't want her to have to waituntil she's almost 60 like me to
realize that anybody can do it.
I teach at an aircraftmaintenance technician school,
and part of the curriculum isbasic math and physics.
It's painful to see some ofthese kids who just graduated
(22:46):
high school and think they can'tdo basic math, even when it's
applied to a career path theychose.
Thank you for helping todestigmatize this mysterious
world of mathematics.
Oh my God.
What a, what a perfect text toend on.
Steve, honestly, first of all,the fact that you're doing this
work now, that you're teachingmath to these kids, that you're
thinking about your daughter,that you at the age of 60 are
(23:07):
like, I refuse for.
This like math trauma to be myidentity, like I want to change
and know I can change andbelieve I can, and I'm taking
the steps, is so admirable.
It's so inspiring.
I know there's so many peoplelistening right now who are just
like you, who are probably soinspired by you.
Like I just said in response tothat last text, it's never too
late.
(23:27):
It really is never too late.
And the coolest thing, Steve,is, as I said before, math
trauma really can begenerational, right?
Like it gets passed down, wecan't help it.
That's just what happens sooften, and you are causing that
generational shift.
It starts with you and it'sgonna trickle down towards your
daughter, and it's gonna trickledown from there.
(23:48):
And it also emanates from you.
You are literally teaching kids.
They are in your classroom everyday, and there is no better role
model than the role model who'slike, listen, kids, listen,
kiddos, I felt exactly like youdid.
I thought I couldn't do it, andhere I am at the age of 60,
proving myself wrong.
Proving that I can change.
(24:09):
That is so inspiring.
Because the truth is, we alwaysfeel too old to change, right?
Like, just think about yourselfas a teenager where you're like,
oh, forget it.
Like it's grade nine.
I've always sucked at math, it'sover.
You could think that then youcould think that in grade seven
you could be like, yeah,whatever.
It's done.
Like honestly, you could thinkthat at any age, right?
So.
(24:29):
I remember like seeing this memeit's about the way you look, so
it's a bit different, but it'salways like, you know, it, the,
the point of the meme issomething along the lines of
like, it's like someone lookingat a picture of themselves 20
years ago and it's like, I can'tactually remember what the meme
is, but I think the point is,you know what I mean?
It's like right now I feel likeI'm really, really old.
In 20 years I'm gonna look backon this time and be like, holy
(24:50):
shit, I was so young then.
How did I think I was old?
Right?
So like, I think that's whatyou're really showing, and
that's what the teacher or adultwho has been carrying math
baggage is modeling to people infront of them is, yeah, it
always feels like it's too lateto change, but the truth is it
never is.
Every day is a great day tochange.
Every day is a great day to trysomething new.
(25:12):
Every day is a great day to tryto break through a limiting
belief.
Every day is a great day torewire a neural pathway.
You are literally interrupting acycle in real time in front of
people who are looking to youwith their own math trauma.
Math isn't about how fast youget it and you're showing them
that it's about whether or notyou feel that it's available to
you.
And the fact that you stillbelieve it is, and I know it is,
(25:34):
and everyone listening ischeering you on right now, the
fact that you still believe itis allows you to take the steps
to access what is available toyou.
But that has to date beeninaccessible to you for so many
reasons that are not your fault.
So thank you so much.
This is a perfect text to endon.
We are so proud of you.
This is so awesome.
I want you to keep us posted andI want you to remember that
(25:57):
those students struggling inyour class, that's not ability.
It's years of accumulated mathidentity.
I have a, um, student, an oldstudent, Holly Mason.
I just had coffee with her lastweek and I'm gonna shout her out
right now.
And she's now becoming a mathteacher.
And she said, when she goes intoclassrooms, I loved this, she
said, I always assumecompetence, I don't assume prior
(26:18):
knowledge.
And I was like, that is abeautiful line.
Assume competence, but don'tassume prior knowledge.
Those are two different things.
And that's what you're doingright now.
Those kids who are coming to youfrom high school that can't do
basic math, it's not acompetence issue, it's a prior
knowledge issue, and you are theperfect person to show them
that, to heal that, to teachthem that basic math and to move
(26:39):
them along the way.
So thank you so much, Steve.
Oh, what was your name?
Steve?
Yes.
Okay.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much, Steve.
Thank you for everyone who wrotein.
Thank you guys for listening tothe first Mailbag episode.
It is so inspiring to be incommunity with you guys, to be
co-creating math healing withyou guys.
I am just one person, and youguys are out there doing the
(26:59):
work, so thank you.
It takes a village, and you guysare part of the Math Therapy
community.
Please text the podcast.
Send the podcast a voice note.
We would love to showcase you onour next mailbag episode.
And if somebody knows SisterBeth or this person from
Atlanta, Georgia, I'm nowobsessed with getting them
assigned a book, so please helpme out.
All right.
Until next week.
(27:19):
Same time, same place, samechannel.
Peace, love and pi.
final text for today fromSteve, from Indianapolis,
Indiana, Vanessa, and David.
My name is Steve from NorthernMinnesota.
Wait, what?
No, that's confusing.
That is not Indiana.
Guys, I, I'm not that great atgeography, but he Okay.
(27:40):
Steve from Indianapolis.
Maybe it's just, maybe it's how,why does it say that?
lemme start that again.
Okay guys, it is Vanessa and we are here for
another week of Math Therapy.
And let me tell you, we arelegitimately doing something we
have never done before.
Okay, if you are a long timelistener, or if you literally
have only listened to oneepisode, you will know that I
will not shut up about textingthe podcast.
I'm always like, oh my God, textthe podcast this.
Oh my God.
Share this episode with a friendand then text the podcast and
(00:26):
send me a message and text thepodcast and text the podcast if
you think this, and text thepodcast if you want another
guest.
And like I'm obsessed with youguys texting the podcast.
And let me tell you that today,this is finally going to pay
off.
Because guess what?
A bunch of you have been textingthe podcast since this feature
was introduced, like threemonths ago, and now I have a
bunch of texts from you.
(00:46):
And today we are going to do amailbag episode where I read out
some of these incredible textsand I respond to them in real
time, live on the podcast.
Before I continue, I actuallyhave a ton of these texts.
So I'm only gonna do a few ofthem today.
I'm gonna do a few of themanother day.
But I actually have to tell youthat now not only can you text
(01:07):
the podcast, you can do myfavorite fucking thing, which is
you can send the podcast a voicenote.
Sorry, I got so excited there.
I couldn't even say it.
You can send us a voice note.
So now when you go to the yourapp or wherever you're listening
right now, there will be like athing that says like, send us a
text or send us a message.
I don't know what it says.
You can click on that and youcan now either send us a text or
(01:27):
you can send us a voice note.
Final thing I'm gonna say, Iknow that many of you are
probably like, I sent a text amillion years ago.
What happened to it?
We can't respond to the text.
We can only see the text.
But in addition to the voicenote feature, we can now respond
to your text.
I'm not actually saying we'regoing to respond to your text.
We might never respond to yourtext, but we are getting them
and maybe we'll respond to themlive.
(01:48):
I'm gonna stop now, but I willsay one other thing.
I also want you to be able totext or voice note the podcast
without the pressure of beinglike, oh my God, she's gonna
play this live.
If you do not want me to likesay your text out loud or play
your voice note live, just sayso in your text or voice note.
I'm done.
Are we ready for text numberone?
(02:08):
All the way from Phoenix,Arizona.
Anonymous, no name.
I was slash am a gifted learnerand was placed in a gifted
class.
I was always so afraid in math.
I was put with kids a year olderand always felt like I didn't
belong.
I could not memorize my factsand remember being in high
school, counting on my fingers.
(02:28):
So even though I was labeledgifted, it was a huge struggle
for me.
Now as a teacher who has taughtkinder, then fourth math for 10
years before moving to aposition where I see multiple
grades and teach eighth gradealgebra, now I see how these
kids' perceptions of what theycan do has changed so much
between kinder to eighth.
I just would love to know yourthoughts on gifted programs and
(02:50):
placements and supporting eventhese gifted kids who the world
labels as high potential andneglects to see that they too
struggle and in my experience,need Math Therapy the most.
Okay.
First of all, whoever sent thistext, I am so with you.
Okay.
This one is actually really,really, interesting.
Because I always say that one ofthe major causes of math trauma
(03:13):
is actually simply beinglabeled.
It doesn't matter what you'relabeled, right?
It doesn't matter if the labeledis quote unquote, a good label
or quote unquote, a bad label.
When we are labeled, all of asudden we are put into a box.
And whether it's a box we arewillingly walking into or a box
that we are unwillingly enclosedin, it is still a box.
A box is limiting.
(03:34):
A box has walls, a box is acertain size.
So anytime we suddenly feel likewe no longer fit that box that
we have been put into, it causessome sort of crisis of identity.
It causes us to feel like wedon't belong and this happens so
often with the gifted label.
There's actually a lot ofresearch right now from kids who
were once labeled as gifted.
(03:54):
I will admit, I actually was ina gifted program for grade seven
and eight.
There's a lot of researchshowing that these kids will
say, it was one of the worstthings that happened to me.
What does gifted mean?
What does it mean?
Think about it.
Being gifted is supposed toimply that you have a gift.
Not that you've developed orlike earned or conjured this
gift, but you have been bornwith this gift.
(04:16):
You are this like smart, aboveintelligent person of some sort.
So what happens is, when kidsfeel like they're not living up
to the gift or they startstruggling in math class,
instead of feeling like, oh,this is just like struggle,
like, oh, this is just like amistake I made a year ago, oh,
this is just another challenge,they often feel like, oh shit.
(04:37):
I guess I've lost the gift.
The gift has expired.
It's over.
My time is done.
Because giftedness impliesinnateness.
It implies nature over nurture.
And, and this happens a lot.
You will see this with kids whoare the quote unquote smart kid
or who haven't struggled in mathtraditionally, and then suddenly
they hit a concept or a gradewhere they struggle, all of a
(04:58):
sudden, because they haven'tbeen taught intelligence or math
ability are things that arebuilt and they can construct and
they can continue to evolve,they start thinking, I've lost
it.
My time is done.
I'm only smart up to a certainlevel, and I'm not meant to
exceed that level.
To me, the gifted label actuallyimposes on kids a whole other
(05:21):
level of imposter syndromebecause now you're being told
you are supposed to not needsupport in math, you're supposed
to be more mathematicallycapable than your peers that are
not in that classroom.
So now when you struggle or youface a challenge, now you're an
imposter not only tomathematics, but to the gifted
(05:42):
population, right?
Like you're like now, I'm notonly an imposter in math class,
I'm an imposter in this giftedclass.
I'm an imposter to mathematicsand to giftedness.
Just because someone looks likethey've got it all together, it
doesn't mean they're not fallingapart inside.
And just because a kid isgetting a good grade, it doesn't
mean they actually understandthe concepts.
Often you can get a good gradejust by following patterns and
(06:02):
formulas and mimicking aprocedure and not conceptually
understanding.
Just like all of that.
Just because a kid is labeledgifted, or getting a good grade,
or is labeled, quote, I'm usingair quotes a lot here, smart, it
doesn't mean that they're notstruggling.
It doesn't mean that they're notanxious.
It doesn't mean that theiridentity is not in need of
repair.
(06:23):
So thank you so much for sendingthat in.
It is something we don't talkabout enough and I'm really,
really glad you brought it up.
Okay.
Onto text number two.
Hi, my name is Juliette and I'man educator in Albuquerque, New
Mexico.
I recently found and love yourpodcast.
I have a like mindset and take asimilar educational approach
with my students.
My teaching journey has led mefrom tolerating math to honestly
(06:44):
falling in love with it.
I've worked in elementary,middle school, and I'm starting
as a high school math teacherthis January.
Your podcast has pumped me up.
Thank you for the work you'redoing.
Ugh.
I mean, I love to hear it.
Juliet, thank you so much forsending this in because this is
exactly what I mean when I saywe can all build better,
healthier, happier relationshipswith math.
(07:06):
Our relationship with math isnot fixed, and I love that you
pointed out that you went fromtolerating it to loving it,
right?
That is what an identity shiftis all about.
When we talk about buildinghealthier math identities, we
are talking not only about theperson who goes from hating math
to tolerating math right, fromthe person who goes from hating
(07:26):
math to at least giving math atry.
That, by the way, is a veryimportant identity shift, but
when we can then take that nextleap from tolerating math to
loving it, that is a reallybeautiful thing.
And Juliet, thank you forreminding us all that.
It is possible, and it'spossible because you didn't just
become a different person.
You had a different experienceof math that led you to becoming
(07:47):
who you are today.
Okay, so we are moving on totext number three.
And I'd like to point out, wejust went from like the, I'm
gifted, but I'm still strugglingand moved on to a big identity
piece of like, I used to hatemath and now I love it.
And now I wanna dig a littleinto a couple of texts that
point to what's underneath allthat.
And we are gonna go over to atext from my hometown, Toronto,
(08:10):
Ontario.
Okay.
Finally, catching up on my to-dolist listen.
I think the nature versusnurture debate for being a math
person or a music person or amemory person is a false
dichotomy.
I'm no brain scientist, butsince there's no math gene, all
got to be brain-based, right?
So if neuroplasticity is at sucha peak in childhood and
adolescence, students can buildmath identity and ability at
(08:31):
those stages of life reallyeasily.
Adults can still train theirbrains, but they're a bit less
flexible.
So back it up into infancy andinto the womb, and it's all
about neurons and brainconnections.
It's all neuroplasticity atevery stage, and at some stages
we have more of it and others wehave less of it, but it's all
the same mechanism.
That's what makes sense to meanyway.
Okay, so here's what I'mthinking with this one.
(08:53):
I love that this person actuallysaid, I'm no brain scientist,
right in their text.
Because guess what?
Neither am I.
I think this was in response tomy interview with Dr.
Sarah McKay, which was calledwhat neuroscience actually says
about gender and math.
So I would actually go back tothat episode, and listen to it
again because Dr.
(09:13):
Sarah McKay is a neuroscientistand she addresses a lot of this.
I think what I'd wanna zoom outa bit on this, is this.
Yes, we're talking aboutneuroplasticity and we're
talking about brain wiring andsuch, but what we're really
talking about and what you'retalking about in this text,
mysterious Toronto author, isthat experience and emotion and
(09:34):
identity all merge together andplay a role in not only our math
ability, but in the way we endup feeling about math, right?
Two kids can be born withsimilar brain potentials and
they might have completelydifferent math identities
depending on the experience theyhave with math.
So yes, it is brain-based andit's brain-based, because we're
(09:56):
talking about neuroplasticity,we're talking about things
happening in the brain withregards to learning, but.
I think we have to be verycareful with the mechanism by
which that takes place.
I don't think, I mean, Idefinitely don't know what it
is, that's why I talk to expertsabout how it works.
But I think the key takeaway isgo listen to that episode with
Dr.
Sarah McKay because she reallyaddresses in their how much of
(10:20):
math ability has to do withgenetics, like how much it has
to do with the brain you're bornwith, and how much of it has to
do with like yes, like thingsare happening in your brain, but
those things are malleabledepending on the experiences you
have.
It's a nurture versus natureargument.
And I don't even wanna sayargument.
It's a nurture versus naturediscussion.
(10:40):
So yes, brain base as in thingsare happening in our brain, but
really experience and emotionand identity shapes so much of
what our math ability turns outbecoming, how it manifests in
reality.
Okay.
Let's move on to another textfrom Toronto, Ontario.
I'm not being biased, I swearthese ones were just very juicy.
(11:03):
One important idea for showingyour thinking is that kids often
can't explain their thinking orshow their steps because math is
so naturally human and kids arenatural mathematicians who've
been sold a story that math issomething out there with steps
and symbols that must bememorized.
The math itself is intuitive andkids can demonstrate pretty
sophisticated algebraicreasoning skills if approached
(11:23):
visually instead ofsymbolically.
So instead of saying that theyneed to learn how to show their
thinking or explain their steps,I tell my students that they
have to learn the arbitrarysymbolic representations that
people have assigned to thegreat mathematical thinking that
they already know how to do.
The math is in them.
It's a natural way that humansmake sense of their world.
They just need to learn tolisten to themselves first and
(11:45):
fit the notation and symbols toit later.
Honestly, this is a really,really interesting take and I
think probably many of us wouldagree.
There's been a lot ofconversation around getting kids
to think.
I think that actually, there'stwo ways I wanna talk about
this.
The first is there's so muchdiscourse right now around being
like, kids are not thinking,they haven't been thinking, oh
(12:06):
my God, like we have suddenlyrealized they've never thought a
single thought, they've justbeen copying down every single
thing happening in math class.
And, I think we are just being alittle bit too extra with that.
And what I hear in this text isthis idea of like, kids are
thinking just because they can'tshow their thinking, it does not
mean that they are not thinking.
So I think that's the firstthing I wanna say is like, yeah,
(12:27):
I think a lot of kids, I mean, Ithink, I think there are some
kids and adults and who andlearners period who like, are
maybe doing a little mimickingand following procedures and
don't necessarily fullyconceptually understand every
mathematical concept.
I think there are a lot ofpeople who conceptually
understand it, but cannotexplain it to someone else or
show their thought process.
Doesn't mean they're notthinking.
(12:48):
Now this, because we did anentire episode about showing
your thinking, and that'sdefinitely what this is in
response to.
And I, the second piece of thisargument is not only are a lot
of kids thinking, but when theycan't show their thinking, it's
A, not because they're notthinking, but B, because sh they
don't know how to show theirthinking and the way we want
them to see it.
(13:09):
Right?
This writer is talking aboutusing the specific notation in
which we're asking them to showtheir thinking.
And I think this is a reallyinteresting point, like they're
saying here that what they saythere's to their students is,
Hey, I know you're thinking.
You just need to learn thearbitrary symbolic
representations that people haveassigned to the great
(13:29):
mathematical thinking that youknow.
That's what I'm here to teachyou.
I'm not teaching you how tothink you've already got this.
You're awesome.
You know how to think.
I'm gonna show you this likecode with which to demonstrate
to the rest of the world thatyou understand this concept.
I have to think about this.
I mean, I think it's, I thinkit's, yes.
I think there is a bit of thatfor sure.
And I actually kind of like thatapproach in the sense that
(13:49):
you're empowering them and beinglike, I already know that you
know how to think about thisthing.
I'm gonna give you some toolsthat I want you to show me your
thinking with.
But I also think it's about theconfidence, for kids to be like,
yeah, whatever way you'rethinking about this, whatever
way you got the answered, Irespect that.
You don't have to worry thatwhat's gonna come outta your
(14:10):
mouth is something I don't wantto hear.
So I actually think there's twopieces here.
Like I like that approach ofbeing like, I believe that you
know what you're doing and I'mgonna show you this notation
with which to show me.
But the thing I like most aboutthat piece is the confidence
you're giving the student.
To be like, I know you know whatyou're doing.
Sometimes it's hard to explainthe things we already
(14:31):
intuitively know, like that'shard for us.
And you know, I talked aboutthis in an episode with Cat and
Nat, the two moms, which wasvery controversial because they
were talking about how they hatealgebra, cause they hate the
letters, they were like talkingabout how they can't can't stand
the X and the Y.
And I was talking about how whenI taught algebra, I would always
introduce it to kids withemojis.
Like I'd be like two heart plus,three star equals, actually, you
(14:54):
can't do that.
That's like apples and oranges.
Okay.
But like, you know what I mean?
Like I'd be, I would do stufflike that.
I'd be like, I like, like Iwould do it to collect like
terms honestly.
So it's like two heart plus,three star plus four hearts,
plus two stars.
So that would be six hearts.
Why am I doing this in my head?
Why am I, but you know what I'msaying?
My point is it made it so mucheasier for them to be gathering
(15:18):
and collecting.
Right.
And I wonder if we can dosomething similar with showing
your thinking.
I wonder actually if the firststep before being like, I know
that you understand this and nowlet me teach you this notation
with which to show me, I wonderif the first step, which I know
many do anyways.
(15:38):
But I wonder if that like sortof like bridge is being like,
okay, I know you know you'rethinking something, you don't
know how to explain it.
Can you explain it to me in anywords you want?
Using any symbols you want.
And I think that is actuallywhat a lot of educators are
doing right now.
Being like, you can show me yourthinking in any way.
You can make me a TikTok to showme your thinking.
You can draw me a picture.
You can like do an interpretivedance.
(15:59):
Like, I don't know, do somethingto explain this concept to me in
your world.
And then we can move on to thelike, official way fine.
Like if you're doing proofs incollege, you can't like show me
that with an interpretive dance.
Although like, honestly, I wouldlike to see that.
So yeah, I feel like the firststepping stone is giving kids
the confidence.
Then it's allowing them to speakto you in their language.
It's their thinking.
(16:20):
They should be allowed to usetheir language and then we can
move on to like, let's show youhow to do it officially.
Okay, so let's move on to textnumber five from Nina, from
Langhorne, Pennsylvania.
I love saying these.
I haven't been to any of theseplaces except for Toronto.
Okay.
Oh my God.
We should do a podcast tourwhere I come to the places,
guys, this is my dream, I'mactually gonna say it right now.
(16:40):
I am manifesting a podcast tour.
That would be so cool.
Like.
I tour with a podcast.
Me and David like do shows anddo interviews by day and take
questions.
And then we play a show with ourband at night.
Oh my God.
Can't wait to play Langhorn,Pennsylvania.
Did I say Longhorn?
It's Langhorn.
Okay.
I started listening to theepisode about showing your work
as I was heading into a day ofgrade level meetings, discussing
(17:03):
work samples from students.
One suggestion I shared with afourth grade team was for
students to make a video onGoogle slide of their problem
solving steps and mathematicalthinking before they have to
write or type it out.
Then I heard your fourthstrategy of outer process.
Great minds think alike.
Thanks for sharing, Nina.
Okay, this is crazy because thisis basically exactly what I just
said.
(17:23):
Nina, you rock.
I first of all, Nina, if you'relistening, I would love to know
what happened with this idea.
Are they doing it?
Is your fourth grade teamallowing students to make videos
on Google slide of their problemsolving steps?
Because I love that.
This is the thing.
So in that episode about showingyour work, I was explaining that
speaking is lower pressure thanwriting.
(17:44):
Right?
Because like you don't have toput something down like, this is
why I like the podcast and Ireally like, uh, writing is
like, is just a lot for me.
It's a commitment.
You're putting words to paper.
You can see the words as theycome out.
That being said, a lot of peoplelove journaling.
Because they feel it allows themto outer process.
But honestly for most people,talking is a lot more low lift.
It just, it literally is lowereffort.
(18:05):
Right?
So I think there's two thingshere.
Some people might be morecomfortable just like writing it
all out in a journal format, andother people like me would be
more comfortable just saying itout loud, talking, making you a
video, explaining it to afriend.
Because when we outer process,thinking becomes visible and not
only does thinking becomevisible to the person listening
(18:27):
to us, it becomes visible to us.
As we hear the words coming outof our mouth, often that allows
our brain to process what it isthinking in real time in a real
tangible way.
So this goes exactly to what Isaid to who was it?
Who was this person from?
Toronto.
We don't know, there's no name.
But this is the same thing inwhatever way a student wants to
(18:50):
show their thinking, whateverthey feel is like their clutch
way to outer process that makesthem feel at home and less
anxious, that is the way theyshould be allowed to show their
thinking to start.
And, this actually to me, likeas I'm saying this, see, I'm
outer processing, I'm thinking,and I'm coming up with an idea
as I'm saying this, I'mthinking, what a great exercise
before, like when you start theyear or like when you start next
(19:12):
week, just sit with your classand be like, okay guys, let's do
a like little, like get to knowourselves.
What is each of our favorite,most comfortable way to explain
how we're thinking or what isour most comfortable way, if
you're having a problem and youcan't figure it out what it is,
and you don't know how you'refeeling, what's your favorite
way to figure it out?
Is it to A, talk to a friend.
(19:32):
B, curl up and write in yourjournal.
C, start ranting about it onsocial media.
DI don't know, some options likethis, and based on what they
say, turn that into anassignment of this is how you're
gonna show the way you arethinking about this problem.
The same way when you're in abad mood and you can't figure
out what's wrong, you wouldprocess that, do that with, this
(19:56):
is a great assignment idea.
Can you do guys, try this.
Try this.
Nina, thank you so much forwriting in.
Okay.
We only have two left and we arenow on text number six from
Atlanta, Georgia.
I was actually there for NCTMlast year.
I have no idea where this willend up, but I'll give it a shot.
I'm really hoping to get asigned Math Therapy book for my
son's teacher, who is that mathteacher, for our whole family.
(20:16):
Okay.
I'm already gonna cry.
She has completely turned mysons and my attitude around.
Last year we dreaded math.
We argued.
I complained.
You could feel the tensionwherever there was a math test.
In retrospect, I put so muchpressure on this one class.
This year, math is my son'sfavorite subject, and we work
together to figure it out.
We both talk about how far we'veboth come and can laugh at the
drama of third grade.
(20:37):
It has gone from impossible tofigureoutable because of Sister
Beth.
Yep.
The amazing math teacher whointroduced me to your book and
podcast is a nun.
Thank you for everything you do,and if there's any way to get a
signed book for Sister Beth,that would be amazing.
Guys.
Okay, so listen, there's noname.
I don't know who you are, but Iam praying.
See what I did there, um, sorry.
(21:01):
I honestly am praying that youare listening right now'cause I
would love to get a signed copyto Sister Beth, but I don't know
how.
I'm gonna be honest.
What I did after I read thistext is I tried to find Sister
Beth online.
I Googled Sister Beth MathAtlanta, Georgia.
And it just, nothing that cameup like seemed like it could
have been her.
(21:22):
Okay.
So if anyone who knows SisterBeth is listening, if anyone who
knows who the author of thistext is listening, if the author
of this text is listening, emailme vanessa@themathguru.ca with
your info and Sister Beth's infoand I will mail her a signed
copy.
This is so cool.
And what I all, guys, what Iwanna highlight for everyone is,
I love how you said in here sheis that math teacher for our
(21:42):
whole family and she hascompletely turned my son's and
my attitude around.
It just shows that that is MathTherapy in action.
You know that math trauma reallyis generational and it's never
too late.
It's never too late to fix yourrelationship with math.
That is honestly so cool.
Okay.
(22:02):
Final text of the day, fromSteve from Northern Minnesota:
i'm a new listener only aboutfive or six episodes so far.
I have severe math anxiety anddeep-seated math trauma for as
long as I can remember.
However, after reading the bookIs Math Real by Eugenia Chang,
and then hearing your interviewwith her, I feel there might be
hope for me yet.
I also just listened to thepreview of your new book and to
(22:25):
hear that there's no such thingas not a math person gives me
very positive vibes towardsmath.
I can't wait to read your bookand share it with my daughter
who has the same aptitudetowards math as myself.
I don't want her to have to waituntil she's almost 60 like me to
realize that anybody can do it.
I teach at an aircraftmaintenance technician school,
and part of the curriculum isbasic math and physics.
It's painful to see some ofthese kids who just graduated
(22:46):
high school and think they can'tdo basic math, even when it's
applied to a career path theychose.
Thank you for helping todestigmatize this mysterious
world of mathematics.
Oh my God.
What a, what a perfect text toend on.
Steve, honestly, first of all,the fact that you're doing this
work now, that you're teachingmath to these kids, that you're
thinking about your daughter,that you at the age of 60 are
(23:07):
like, I refuse for.
This like math trauma to be myidentity, like I want to change
and know I can change andbelieve I can, and I'm taking
the steps, is so admirable.
It's so inspiring.
I know there's so many peoplelistening right now who are just
like you, who are probably soinspired by you.
Like I just said in response tothat last text, it's never too
late.
(23:27):
It really is never too late.
And the coolest thing, Steve,is, as I said before, math
trauma really can begenerational, right?
Like it gets passed down, wecan't help it.
That's just what happens sooften, and you are causing that
generational shift.
It starts with you and it'sgonna trickle down towards your
daughter, and it's gonna trickledown from there.
(23:48):
And it also emanates from you.
You are literally teaching kids.
They are in your classroom everyday, and there is no better role
model than the role model who'slike, listen, kids, listen,
kiddos, I felt exactly like youdid.
I thought I couldn't do it, andhere I am at the age of 60,
proving myself wrong.
Proving that I can change.
(24:09):
That is so inspiring.
Because the truth is, we alwaysfeel too old to change, right?
Like, just think about yourselfas a teenager where you're like,
oh, forget it.
Like it's grade nine.
I've always sucked at math, it'sover.
You could think that then youcould think that in grade seven
you could be like, yeah,whatever.
It's done.
Like honestly, you could thinkthat at any age, right?
So.
(24:29):
I remember like seeing this memeit's about the way you look, so
it's a bit different, but it'salways like, you know, it, the,
the point of the meme issomething along the lines of
like, it's like someone lookingat a picture of themselves 20
years ago and it's like, I can'tactually remember what the meme
is, but I think the point is,you know what I mean?
It's like right now I feel likeI'm really, really old.
In 20 years I'm gonna look backon this time and be like, holy
(24:50):
shit, I was so young then.
How did I think I was old?
Right?
So like, I think that's whatyou're really showing, and
that's what the teacher or adultwho has been carrying math
baggage is modeling to people infront of them is, yeah, it
always feels like it's too lateto change, but the truth is it
never is.
Every day is a great day tochange.
Every day is a great day to trysomething new.
(25:12):
Every day is a great day to tryto break through a limiting
belief.
Every day is a great day torewire a neural pathway.
You are literally interrupting acycle in real time in front of
people who are looking to youwith their own math trauma.
Math isn't about how fast youget it and you're showing them
that it's about whether or notyou feel that it's available to
you.
And the fact that you stillbelieve it is, and I know it is,
(25:34):
and everyone listening ischeering you on right now, the
fact that you still believe itis allows you to take the steps
to access what is available toyou.
But that has to date beeninaccessible to you for so many
reasons that are not your fault.
So thank you so much.
This is a perfect text to endon.
We are so proud of you.
This is so awesome.
I want you to keep us posted andI want you to remember that
(25:57):
those students struggling inyour class, that's not ability.
It's years of accumulated mathidentity.
I have a, um, student, an oldstudent, Holly Mason.
I just had coffee with her lastweek and I'm gonna shout her out
right now.
And she's now becoming a mathteacher.
And she said, when she goes intoclassrooms, I loved this, she
said, I always assumecompetence, I don't assume prior
(26:18):
knowledge.
And I was like, that is abeautiful line.
Assume competence, but don'tassume prior knowledge.
Those are two different things.
And that's what you're doingright now.
Those kids who are coming to youfrom high school that can't do
basic math, it's not acompetence issue, it's a prior
knowledge issue, and you are theperfect person to show them
that, to heal that, to teachthem that basic math and to move
(26:39):
them along the way.
So thank you so much, Steve.
Oh, what was your name?
Steve?
Yes.
Okay.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much, Steve.
Thank you for everyone who wrotein.
Thank you guys for listening tothe first Mailbag episode.
It is so inspiring to be incommunity with you guys, to be
co-creating math healing withyou guys.
I am just one person, and youguys are out there doing the
(26:59):
work, so thank you.
It takes a village, and you guysare part of the Math Therapy
community.
Please text the podcast.
Send the podcast a voice note.
We would love to showcase you onour next mailbag episode.
And if somebody knows SisterBeth or this person from
Atlanta, Georgia, I'm nowobsessed with getting them
assigned a book, so please helpme out.
All right.
Until next week.
(27:19):
Same time, same place, samechannel.
Peace, love and pi.
final text for today fromSteve, from Indianapolis,
Indiana, Vanessa, and David.
My name is Steve from NorthernMinnesota.
Wait, what?
No, that's confusing.
That is not Indiana.
Guys, I, I'm not that great atgeography, but he Okay.
(27:40):
Steve from Indianapolis.
Maybe it's just, maybe it's how,why does it say that?
lemme start that again.
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