May 7, 2026 • 30 mins
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Ever feel like you don't know how to take your own advice? Like you've learned all the strategies but can't seem to actually use them? Like no matter how hard you try to get your life in order, it just seems to get more complicated?!
Well Vanessa certainly does, and (at the encouragement of her producer) she hopped on the mic and let it all out in one of her most honest and vulnerable episodes yet.
With the help of her calculator stuffie and her trademark stream of consciousness outer processing, she talks herself down from a panicked state and explores:
- what an anxiety spiral looks like and what's actually behind it
- negativity bias + confirmation bias = catastrophization!
- how therapy tools like a gratitude practice can help
- what this all has to do with math education
If you can relate, or just want to give Vanessa a pep talk, send us a text! And share this episode with a friend who needs to hear it.
Contact us:
- Vanessa Vakharia: Instagram, TikTok, Email
- Math Therapy: Text the Podcast
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Vanessa Vakharia (00:03):
Hello everyone, and welcome to another
episode, question mark of MathTherapy.
I am not sure what's about tohappen here.
All I know is that I'm behindthe mic because David told me he
was sick of listening to mecomplain, and if I was going to
be stressed and talk to himabout it, I might as well be
productive and turn it into anepisode.
So here we are.
(00:24):
And, um, I don't know.
I guess we're just gonna seewhat happens.
I'm sitting here with my therapycalculator, AKA, my stuffy from
TI Calculators, and I am herebecause, what can I say?
I am always.
Saying blah, blah, blah, thisanxiety, that trauma, blah.
We can fix things mindset, la,la, la, la, la.
(00:45):
There's so many solutions to somany problems.
But the truth is, I just likeeveryone else, have my own
anxieties.
Yes, about math, but about lifein general.
And the truth is that mathanxiety is just another form of
anxiety.
And anxiety in general is, Ialways say this, it is about the
fear of some future catastrophicevent and the fear that you're
(01:08):
not gonna be able to handle it.
And I feel like right now I amvery consumed with my own
anxieties and I.
I'm here to outer process thembecause actually I have a
legitimate therapy appointmentin four and a half hours.
And I was supposed to do allthis shit for my therapist last
week that I did not do, and nowI feel like she's gonna get mad
at me, which like she's notgonna do'cause I'm paying her.
And like, therapists don'tactually get mad at you, but I'm
like, maybe if I'm accountableto someone, AKA U, the listener,
(01:31):
I'll actually do the things Iwas supposed to do to feel less
anxious last week so that I feelless anxious by the time my
appointment rolls around in fourand a half hours.
So, without further ado.
David's face right now.
This was your idea.
Okay.
I am stressed.
Okay, I'm stressed because this,I feel this all started with a
mathematical reason actually,which is that it is tax time and
(01:55):
every tax season I get stressed.
Why do I get stressed?
I get stressed because I feellike I can't fucking understand
taxes.
Like here I am.
I, I like math, I understandmathematical operations.
Yet the entire tax system is soconvoluted and complicated that
I can't understand it, and whenI can't understand it, I feel
like I'm.
Out of control because this isabout money.
(02:16):
It's about my money, and thenall of a sudden you're like, I
don't know what's happeningright now.
Am I doing something wrong?
Is someone gonna come after me?
I don't understand what thesenumbers mean.
I don't understand what therules are.
I don't understand like whereI'm supposed to input this,
that, and the other thing.
I don't know.
I'm not detail oriented, so I'mlooking at the reports and I'm
like, this could be my income.
I'm not sure, is it.
Like, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't understand what's goingon, and it triggers my old math
(02:39):
anxiety because I'm back tobeing that kid who was like, I
don't know, I, if this makessense.
Like I'm plugging numbers intothe formula and I don't
understand if it makes sense.
Actually, maybe this is anargument against the algorithm.
I actually thought I was gonnaget on here and talk about how I
love the algorithm because itactually brings me so much peace
to plug shit in and get ananswer and be able to check it
off and just be done.
(02:59):
Just be finished to not have tothink for fucking once.
I know we love thinking, I getthat.
We love thinking, but likewouldn't it be nice to not have
to think for a second?
But now that I'm saying this,I'm like, maybe this is the
problem because I am pluggingshit into FreshBooks and it's
pumping out some number and Idon't understand what it's.
Doing, actually, maybe that'sthe problem with taxes in
general.
I don't actually understandwhat's happening.
Maybe I do need to think.
(03:20):
Maybe that, uh, okay.
Anyway, anyways, the point isthat like, so now I'm back to
this whole thing of being like,great, I don't know what's
happening.
I don't know if any of thesenumbers are correct.
I've gotta pay a bunch of money.
Is that right?
I don't know.
Am I not even paying the rightamount?
Is someone gonna come after me?
Is the IRS coming after me?
I know I live in Canada, butstill the IRS sounds scarier
than the CRA, but I'd be scaredif either of these people came
(03:41):
after me because I don't evenfeel like I have, I wouldn't be
able to argue because I don'tknow what they'd ask me, and I
don't know what I did.
So I wouldn't be able toconfidently be like, Nope, like
here's my thought process.
Like if they were like, explainyour thinking, I'd be like, bro,
like I can't.
I can't actually.
I just plug shit in.
And I guess that's what teachersdon't want to hear.
(04:02):
So this episode is, you know,when I started this episode, I
was like, how is this possiblygonna tie into math?
But already I'm like, well, herewe are.
Here are all the similarities.
I think that's it.
I think actually, the feeling ofnot knowing is creating this out
of control sensation where Ifeel so out of control, I don't
even know what questions to askevery time I do ask a question,
(04:24):
I'm gonna be honest when I askan accountant a question, I've
asked probably, I've probablyspoken to eight accountants in
my lifetime, and anytime I'veasked them to explain anything
to me, it has beenincomprehensible.
I don't know what they'resaying, so I end up feeling.
Dumber.
So I feel dumb.
Now I feel like I still don'tunderstand, and then I feel like
there's no way I can understandbecause this person is
(04:44):
explaining it to me and I can'tunderstand.
So again, it's triggering thisold math anxiety.
So like even when I'm asking theque, and then also half the time
I don't even know what questionto ask, right?
But when I do finally land on aquestion, the explanation just
leaves me more confused.
And this is how I assumestudents.
It's not how I assume.
I know how students feel in mathclass.
It's like.
We want them to ask us aquestion if they don't
(05:04):
understand, and they're like, Ican't even begin to know what to
ask you because I have no ideawhat the fuck is going on.
And then they ask the question,we explain it to them in this
like kind voice.
We're like, see, it makes sensenow.
And they're like, it actuallymakes less sense.
So now they feel even worseabout themselves because now
they've tried.
Like, at least when I don't try,like I, if my mindset actually
(05:24):
was, you know what?
I don't need to know what'sgoing on.
I trust my accountant, they'rejust gonna take care of it.
I'm on a need to know basis.
I don't need to know.
I would feel a lot better.
I would feel better.
The point is, when you try tounderstand something, when you
decide I'm gonna finally puteffort in, and then you can't
understand it.
It doesn't feel good.
I actually talk about this a lotbecause I always talk about how,
(05:46):
uh, math anxiety leads tolearners entering the fear
anticipatory and avoidancecycle, which is like, you're
scared of this thing, like I'mscared of my taxes, so I have
all this anticipatory anxietyaround it, which is what if I
try to understand it and then Ican't understand it, and like it
makes me feel even worse, and Ialready feel not understanding
it and not answering questionsor asking questions.
(06:08):
So I avoid, I go into avoidance,which I've done for a while,
like I actually avoid for like360 days of the year.
I'm like, I'm just not evengonna think about it.
And then when tax times comesand I decide to like break the
avoidance cycle where I'm like,you know what?
I'm not gonna avoid it, I'mactually gonna like see if I can
understand it.
It gets so much worse becauselike it feels like everything is
(06:28):
so chaotic and helpless andcrazy.
And then now I've tried to dosomething about it, and I'm in a
worse position because I feeldumb, and I would've rather just
kept my head in the sand.
And this is why honestly, somany people just don't try to do
more math.
They're like, I don't wanna knowwhat I don't know because it's
gonna make me feel shitty.
But the truth is what I reallyneed to do, I'm realizing as I
say this out loud, is I need tofind someone to explain this to
(06:51):
me.
Like I'm obviously capable ofunderstanding how taxes work.
Right.
I can do calculus.
I must be able to understand howfucking taxes work.
If anyone is listening to thisand would like to explain them
to me, I think I need a Canadianaccountant.
This is not a pitch for anaccountant, but I think I do
need a Canadian person toexplain to me how my taxes are
(07:12):
working and explain it to me ina really nice manner.
I need you to explain it to melike, in the way that I
understand it, if I don'tunderstand it, like just, just
find another way.
Like, so if anyone wants toexplain my taxes to me, I
actually just need to hire anaccountant.
So would you like to be myaccountant?
Okay, moving on.
This is how my whole anxietyspiral started, two days ago,
was with taxes, so I startedfeeling outta control with my
(07:33):
taxes.
Then what happened was I startedfeeling out of control about
social media.
I was like, oh my God, my taxes,like, I think that was just like
in my mind, this feeling outtacontrolness, and then maybe it
was a confirmation bias thing.
I don't really know.
I started like, subconsciouslygrasping onto everything I felt
out of control about.
I was like, oh my God, I'm sobehind on social media.
(07:53):
I've got all this content.
It's all disorganized in myphone.
I don't even know where it is,like where are all these videos?
And then it comes time to make asocial media post and I don't
even know what to look forbecause it's all, I haven't
categorized it all.
Like, uh, whatever, like, blah,blah.
Then I went to like Google Driveto find something and I couldn't
find it, and I was like, I have.
System here, like this iscompletely disorganized.
Like what am I doing?
And then I was like, oh, I don'tknow.
(08:13):
I was like, where am I evenorganizing all my deadlines?
Like how do I know I'm gonna geteverything done this entire
year?
Like, and then me and David weretalking about our band and I was
like, we have all these songs.
We just finished an album.
We don't have a release plan.
If we want stuff to come out in2027, we have to start now.
We haven't even started.
And oh my god, it was on and onand on.
And I don't know about you guys,but like I wake up and I just
feel this way.
Like I wake up and all of asudden I'm like, I'm out of
(08:34):
control.
Everything's outta control.
So last week I was telling mytherapist this and my therapist
was like, okay, but like, do youhave a gratitude practice?
And I was like, what the fuck?
Like again, I really believe ina gratitude practice and I
preach this all the time.
Like she was like, instead ofwhen you get up and you start
thinking about all the thingsthat you're doing wrong and all
the things that are outtacontrol, what if you instead
(08:56):
start with the things you feelgrateful for?
And I was like, you know what?
That's it.
I am always like focusing on theback foot.
Like right now, you can hear me.
I sound insane and unhinged,right?
Because I'm like, oh my God,like I'm behind on this.
I don't know that I blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.
So what if I actually do go intogratitude.
Now, I was supposed to be doingthis every day when I wake up
(09:16):
and I feel this panic about allthis stuff I'm behind on.
I was supposed to be, I, I ha Iwas supposed to be doing my own
exercise.
I actually told my therapistthis, I was like, this is a
great idea.
I actually teach students andteachers to do this thing
called,"I used to think, now Iknow", right?
Because we're so focused on allof this stuff, like we have not
done and we're behind on.
Instead of being like, yeah, buthold on.
(09:39):
Look at how far I've come.
So my idea was I should do thisevery morning when I get up.
As soon as I start having thesethoughts of like, oh my God, I'm
so behind, I'm not good enough.
I should be like, hold on, let'smake note of something you've
progressed on.
Have I done that a single daythis week?
I have not.
So we're gonna do it right now.
Let's see if it works.
Okay.
So, okay.
Okay.
Okay.
So I just told you guys all thethings I'm stressed about, is
(10:00):
this good?
Should we end this?
I don't know if we shouldrelease this.
I sound insane.
David Kochberg (10:06):
Yeah, we can decide that later.
Vanessa Vakharia (10:07):
Okay, so you
David Kochberg (10:08):
sound insane.
Vanessa Vakharia (10:09):
Let's try.
Let's try this.
I used to think, now I know.
Okay, so let's just think aboutsome things I can celebrate now
instead of focusing on all thethings I feel out of control on.
Okay.
Number one, and this is hard.
This is hard because right nowmy mind is like, no, no, like
focus on all the things like mymind is trying to be like, but
all the things you're so behindon you haven't done.
Let's think about all of thethings I have accomplished or I
(10:31):
have progressed on.
Okay, so for example.
I used to blank and now I blank.
Like, let's think of someprogress here.
Okay.
You know what?
I had two talks this week.
I went to New York and toChicago, and both of them were
new talks that I hadn't donebefore.
And normally I would've been sostressed about them.
I would've been so stressed.
(10:51):
I would've been nervous, Iwould've not been able to get to
sleep at night.
And actually.
I was not stressed.
I was like, I kind of knew.
I was like, you know what?
It's all good.
I'm gonna tweak my slides.
I'm gonna go in there with anair of curiosity and we're gonna
see what happens.
And I'm just, I know that.
I know my stuff.
So that's actually good, right?
Like that is good.
(11:11):
I like literally a year ago ormonths ago, I would not have
reacted that way.
I would've been like, oh my God,I'm panicked, these
presentations would've weighedon my mind.
They would've interfered with mylike day-to-day life and they
didn't, I actually had a greattime, so that is progress.
Okay.
Number two, here's number.
You know what?
Here's something else that'sgreat.
Even though I was superstressed, like all week when I
(11:31):
woke up in the morning, I'd wakeup panicked.
I didn't, I actually stuck tothe behavior that I knew would
make me feel good.
So even though I woke up andwanted to like immediately get
on my phone and start, becausethat's like kind of like, again,
it's a control response you feeloutta control.
So like you look for somethingto control.
And for me, I pick up my phoneand start just like looking at
emails and texts and socialmedia and being like, what can
(11:52):
provide me temporary relief, orwhat can I just do?
Like my control mechanism is towork.
So like normally I'm like,you've gotta get up and you
start gotta start answeringemails.
But instead I was like, Nope,you're gonna get up, you're
gonna make your cup of tea,you're gonna read the Power of
Now by Eckhart Tolle, you'regonna do your meditation with
your ice pack on your face, andthen you're gonna go to the gym.
And you know what?
(12:12):
I did it every single day.
That is progress.
Like I should be really proud ofmyself for that.
Vanessa.
Okay.
Be proud of yourself.
Like, great.
That is progress.
That's like amazing.
That is good.
You're controlling that.
I'm in control of that.
Okay.
Okay.
I need one more.
I'm thinking about the taxthing.
(12:33):
I feel like I need something tocombat the tax outta
controlness.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I've got one.
I'm here talking about it.
I just put a call out to anaccountant and also yesterday a
friend of mine suggested heraccountant for next year.
Like for this year.
I know I'm too late, whatever.
And I emailed that accountant.
So I got the ball rolling ofpotentially finding another
(12:54):
accountant.
And here is what I actually needto remember.
I have been fine, right?
No one has come for me.
I have paid my taxes, eventhough I don't understand them,
nothing bad has happened, right?
So like, I think maybe thisneeds to be a thing of like,
even though I don't fullyunderstand it, they are being
(13:17):
taken care of.
My accountant knows obviously tosome extent what's going on.
And I do feel, honestly, when Italk to accountants, there are
multiple ways to do a lot ofthings.
So like, my accountant has madea decision to do things a
certain way and it's working outfine, and I think I'm actually
just, you know what?
Okay, here we go.
Here we go.
I think I am justcatastrophizing all these
(13:37):
things.
Like I'm like, I'm like, what ifI'm doing them wrong?
I don't know that I'm doing themwrong.
What if I'm paying too much intaxes?
I don't know that that'shappening.
What if I'm paying too little intaxes?
I don't actually know thatthat's happening.
What if there's a better way todo X, Y, and Z?
I don't actually know that anyof these things are true.
Okay.
That is actually calming medown.
(13:58):
I'm just making this up.
I'm just thinking of the what ifworst case scenario.
What if, what if, as Mel Robbinssays, what if the best thing
happens?
Like, what if I'm paying theexact right amount of taxes,
right?
What if I, what if I'm actuallygetting away with not knowing
anything and not doing any ofthe work myself because my
accountant does it and I don'tneed to understand it?
(14:20):
What if my accountant has foundsome amazing ways for me to save
money, to pay my taxesresponsibly in a non-labor
intensive way that could behappening?
And this actually reminds me weare, is the negativity bias
guys.
It's the negativity bias, alwaysfocusing on the what if the
(14:42):
worst thing happens?
It's like, but nothing bad ishappening.
Everything could be fine.
So why don't I just choose tobelieve that?
And that is the question.
Why don't we just choose tobelieve that the best thing is
happening?
And again, this is gonna helpme.
This is gonna, okay.
Thank you guys for listening.
This is actually now starting tohelp me.
This is gonna help because whydon't we just focus on the best
(15:02):
thing.
Because we are born with anegativity bias for protection.
That's what's happening.
Our brains are trying to protectus.
So I constantly wake up scanningmy environment for threats.
I really do.
I wake up being like, what couldI have missed out on?
What could I have fucked up?
Like what could I be doingwrong?
Like, oh my God, and that'swhat's happening.
But what I need to do is.
Actually what my therapist said,which is, what am I doing right?
(15:25):
I have to get up and write downthese things.
I just told you, here are allthe things I'm doing right.
I'm sticking to my routine, I'mgoing to the gym.
I'm eating healthy.
I am making a to-do list.
See, already watch guys.
As I'm talking, I'm like, yeah,but my to-do list is a mess and
I haven't like coordinated itproperly and maybe I should be
using a physical calendar.
Okay, so now what do I do?
(15:45):
Yes.
Those things are true.
Maybe, but why am I focusedagain on the all the things I'm
doing wrong?
Like I haven't missed adeadline.
Like I'm carrying on, likeeverything's fine.
But I guess we're always like,but what if we could be doing
this thing better?
Honestly, I remember listeningto this Mel Robbins podcast
episode and she said in it, no,her guest said, everyone dies
(16:06):
with a to-do list.
Like you're never gonna diebeing like, ha, yeah, I guess
I've figured it all out and I'mall done.
That's not what happens.
We're constantly working onthings.
We're constantly works inprogress.
Like, you know, we are curiousand interested and always
wanting to try new things and dothings better.
So we're always gonna feel alittle bit of.
What if I try this, what I if Itry that.
(16:27):
And I notice this not just formyself but my friends, right?
We're always focused on ourdeficits.
Like, oh, I just can't get ittogether.
Like, I can't make it to thegym.
I can't ever get my to-do liststraight.
I'm always behind.
Like, so how do I rewire thatthought?
And I think I really have tochange my mentality of being
like, I'm trying my best, andevery morning I need to write,
you know what?
(16:47):
Every morning and every night Iam, I need to do this.
I need to, every morning I needto wake up and be like, okay,
here's something great thathappened, or something I'm
really, really proud of andreally in control of.
And at the end of the day, Ineed to be like, here's
something I really fuckingnailed today.
Instead of thinking of the threethings I did not get done.
Period.
I have to do it.
I have to do it starting rightnow.
(17:08):
I'm doing it right now vocallyon the podcast, but I need to
write them down.
Okay.
We now have four hours and 15minutes until my therapy
session.
Okay?
So I do feel just to circle thisback, even though this is about
me, but now I'm a littledeescalated.
Thank fuck.
I wanna think about students andmath because this really is
(17:28):
making me think so much of whathappens with not just our
students, but teachers.
I feel like this is the thing isas educators, we are so burnt
down and stressed becausethere's always a million more
things we could be doing thatwe're not doing.
We really do not take the timeto be like, look at the 4
million things I did this week.
Look at the incredibleexperiences I created for
students.
(17:48):
Look at that student that I madelaugh.
Look at the student that I madesmile.
Look at this like huge win Ihad.
There's gonna be an endlessarray of things we have yet to
do, and what makes it even worseslash better is we're constantly
going to professionaldevelopment.
What, what is the definition ofprofessional development?
Like developing professionally,that means growing and trying
new things.
So every time we go to a pd,it's like, that's so exciting,
(18:11):
but I feel like we can't helpbut feel a bit deficit about it
because like we're basicallybeing taught to do things we are
not doing.
Right.
Like yeah, sometimes.
I mean, I hope that I'm alwayslike at least affirming the
educators in the room to belike, oh my God, look at all the
amazing stuff you are doing, butI'm also teaching you new
things, which means there's achance you're gonna leave and be
like, oh my God, now there'seven more stuff I need to do.
How do we approach that withexcitement and curiosity instead
(18:34):
of deficit thinking about whatwe're already doing?
And that's a question I'mthrowing out there.
If you have any advice,honestly, text me right now.
Honestly, I I'm, I, I feel likeyou're probably all texting me
right now.
My phone is probably blowing upbecause you're probably all
deeply concerned, but like,don't be, but I will take any
advice.
Um, don't be, I feel like I am,I mean, we know that I'm an
outer processor.
You guys know if you've beenlistening to me for this long,
(18:56):
not today, but like in generallife, and I do feel like it's
like, like having that grace tobe like, we can have all the
strategies.
And guys, I have so manystrategies.
I always welcome more strategiesand I'm always learning more
strategies.
I'm always reading, I'm seeing atherapist, like I'm listening to
podcasts.
But even with the strategies, wehave to remember that we are
fighting a biologicalevolutionary, um,
(19:20):
characteristic.
Because sometimes, like honestlytoday I had an outburst just
being like, what is wrong withme?
Like, why am I always thinkinglike, okay guys, I'm a positive
per like, I consider myself tobe a positive person.
Okay.
I do.
However, and like, and like thisisn't like an egotistical thing.
Like, oh my God, I'm sopositive.
But I really, I am constantlytrying and do see the positive
(19:42):
side of things.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, I can be like, my life isamazing.
I'm so grateful for this, dah,dah, dah, dah.
But the voice in my head, likethe, the clenching feeling
around my chest of likeconstantly feeling like the
other shoe is going to drop, Ifeel like that is tied to.
Feeling like a not enoughness,like we're never gonna be doing
enough.
Like there's some things out ofcontrol.
(20:03):
We're gonna get in trouble.
And I do feel like so much ofthat is tied to education.
Like I really, really feel likeit's tied to what we were taught
in school, which was there'salways more you could be doing.
You always need to beproductive.
You need to be getting goodgrades.
Like if you're sitting arounddaydreaming, you're lazy, like
you're a bad student.
(20:23):
Like there's this idea of like,you're supposed to have all your
shit together and just know howto do all these things and never
ask the same question twice.
Never even ask a question.
Just like know and know whateverybody else knows.
Now it sounds like I'm blamingthe entire education system and
math class for my anxiety andpersonal failings as a human,
which I'm not, but I do thinkit's part of it.
So I actually listened to twopodcasts in the past few months.
(20:44):
One with Mel Robbins, one withElizabeth Gilbert, and they were
incredible.
They were about productivity andhow it is one of our biggest
cultural problems of this time,this feeling that we have to
constantly be productive.
And hustling and how it'sleading to extreme burnout.
Like just this idea of like,we're never doing enough.
And in my mind I was like, I, Iactually think Mel Robbins made
this tie to the classroomexperience.
(21:06):
It's just an interesting thingto think about and look at.
I won't like harp on it, but Ido think it's really important
for us to think as educators orhumans, whoever's listening to
this, who grew up in thissystem, to think of how we want
to make that experiencedifferent for the kids that we
teach, right?
Like this idea of like, ifyou're not doing something, if
(21:26):
you're not producing something,you're not a valuable citizen.
Because it has led to so many ofus like feeling like we cannot
relax or ever like do anythingright or do anything enough.
And it makes me like, it makesme go back to negativity bias.
And actually what I'm reallythinking about now is not only
negativity bias, butconfirmation bias.
Because I think I reallystruggle with that too.
(21:48):
This idea of like.
I feel out of, oh my God.
No, I think I'm realizing whathappened now, okay guys, I'm
having an epiphany.
I'm having an epiphany.
What happened is, remember Itold you guys, it all started
with the tax thing, so I'mfeeling out of control.
I feel like everything's out ofcontrol.
Okay, great.
So all of a sudden that has beentriggered in me.
I'm out of control.
So now the sneaky confirmationbias kicks in where like again,
(22:10):
this is something we haveevolved with.
Like we want to confirm thatwhat we believe is true, it
helps us feel safer.
So now I feel like I'msubconsciously trying to confirm
that I am out of control.
And that's probably why Istarted fucking being like, and
my calendar's out of control andall of these photos are
disorganized on my phone and Idon't even know where these
deadlines are.
And like, I need to plan 2027.
(22:30):
I guess I'm like subconsciouslytrying to find.
Confirmation that I am out ofcontrol.
Instead of just being like, Ifeel out of control with my
taxes, let me deal with thatbecause I'm not actually out of
control here.
Right?
I just don't understand a fewthings.
That's literally it.
That's all that's happeningright now.
And then moving on that, andthat's what a spiral often is.
(22:51):
A spiral is often negativitybias and confirmation bias.
Just like being besties andcreating complete chaos on club
night at 3:00 AM after too manyvodka shots like that, is it,
that's what's happening.
They're just like, woo, likelet's fucking go.
Like, I actually think that iswhat's happening.
So then the question becomes,what strategies do I have?
(23:13):
To negate those two things to belike, I know what's up, you
guys.
I know what you're up to.
And I, I, this is one of thosemoments where I think I also get
mad at myself because I'm like,oh my God.
Like I know better.
I know all the strategies, likewhy am I not practicing what I
preach?
But for everyone listening, whoprobably feels the same way
sometimes.
(23:34):
That's why the saying it'seasier said than done, literally
exists.
Because it's easier said thandone.
Honestly.
Like, do you, like therapistsneed therapists too, right?
Like every single like therapistI know has their own therapist
because it's not just because,you know, strategy suddenly like
you're like, fine, right?
Like.
Knowing something and acting onit are two different things,
(23:55):
right?
Like belief and behavior are twodifferent things.
So even though we know thesestrategies, the hardest time to
employ them is when you're incrisis, right?
Like the hardest time to employtake a deep breath and like
chill out is when you're in themiddle of crisis.
That's actually why they say,it's a practice.
Meditation is a practice becauseyou're supposed to fucking
(24:17):
practice it before you reallyneed to use it, right?
You're supposed to practice itevery single day, meditate for
10 minutes every single day, sothat when the time comes when
you're hyperventilating on apodcast, you know, you can then
easily go into meditating for 10minutes.
You're not like for the firsttime ever trying to be like, oh
my God, let me figure out how tomeditate now that I'm in
hyperventilation mode.
(24:37):
Right?
And that's the same with math.
I have to say.
This is why it's like you're nottrying to learn like the time to
learn how to like solve thequadratic equation or multiply
fractions is not on the test,right?
It's not the day before, evenwhen you're escalated about the
test.
You wanna be in the regularpractice of mathematical
(24:58):
activity and thinking everysingle day so that when you face
a challenging problem or a highstake situation, it's muscle
memory to you.
Okay, so you know what?
This is what I'm gonnacongratulate myself for doing
another thing, quote unquote,right?
Which is I do meditate as apractice.
It might not sound like it rightnow, but I do meditate almost
(25:18):
every single morning I do.
So yes, sometimes it's hard tocall in those strategies in the
moment, and I'm being hard onmyself for that.
But if you were saying to me,yeah, I know, like it's just
really hard for me to, in themoment to catch myself, I just
start panicking.
I wouldn't be like, you're ahorrible person.
I'd be like, yes, that'scompletely normal and all you
can do every time is pause, tryto deescalate and try to employ
(25:42):
one of your strategies.
And quite frankly, that's what Idid this morning.
I woke up panicked and I waslike, oh my God, I just wanna go
smoke a pack of cigarettes eventhough I haven't smoked in five
months.
And I'm just gonna like, I justwanna order a coffee and smoke
cigs.
And I was like.
What you're going to do, even ifyou don't want to, is Mel
Robbins 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, put onyour clothes and go to the gym.
And I did because I've been inthe practice of going to the gym
(26:03):
all week that today it wasmuscle memory and I just did it
and I felt so much better after.
Okay.
So all of that to say, it's somuch easier to give advice than
to take your own advice or totake advice from others, but
also I wanna just like, I guess,share that on my like quote
unquote best days, you know, onthe days where I'm like aligned,
(26:26):
I am using all my strategies, Ifeel like I can get myself out
of a negative mind loop.
Those days happen.
Right?
And I really believe those dayshappen more and more the more
you engage in the practices.
I think about like days whenI've like been anxious for like,
you know, I've woken up superanxious and I've just been like,
fuck it, I'm not using a singlestrategy and it persists.
(26:47):
Whereas like if I start usingthe strategies, it actually like
things slowly but surely calmdown and like a day later or
maybe two days or maybe thatevening, I do move out of
feeling, out of control and moreinto a place of being like,
first of all, you can't controleverything in life.
That is just a fact, and that'scompletely fine.
And the things you feel out ofcontrol of A, do not matter, or
(27:11):
B, are not as outta control asyou think I do.
And there, there are days likeobviously right now where it's a
lot harder to employ thosestrategies and to get into that
type of aligned mindset, it's alot harder.
That being said, those daysaren't all the time.
And I kind of just want, I,first of all really, I came on
here because David kind offorced me to,'cause he was
getting really annoyed at me.
(27:31):
And I don't know if this wasbeneficial to, quite frankly,
anyone except for David who'sraising his hand right now, um,
but I do, I mean, I actuallyfeel a lot better, which is why
one of my favorite strategies isactually just outer processing.
Like really, because I actuallydidn't even really know what was
going on until I, until Istarted to tell you guys.
And I couldn't tell David'causehe didn't wanna listen unless he
was recording this as a podcast.
(27:52):
And now I'm like, okay, Iactually see what happened.
And really I feel like that's atthe heart of the work of that
all of us are doing is seeingour patterns.
Seeing what's happening, seeingwhat's actually the actual root,
like, holy fuck.
I honestly do feel so muchbetter.
I'm like, it's not about thetaxes, it's about, it's not
about the calendar.
It's not, it's about feeling outof control and like I'm doing
something wrong.
(28:12):
It's a control thing.
Okay guys, I don't know what hashappened.
It's not that I blacked out ordissociated'cause I am very
present.
But, uh, David is telling methat I do not sound as
self-indulgent and egotisticaland negative as I think I do
right now, and to just trust himwith the process.
So maybe this episode will air,if you're listening to me say
this, then it has aired.
(28:33):
But thank you guys forlistening.
It actually really, reallyhelped.
I am going to open my phonejournal right now.
Open my notes up like I was toldto a week ago by my therapist
and start a note that I willevery morning and every night
write in.
I'm doing it.
I'm promising you this.
Fuck, okay, I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it.
(28:53):
Believe, behave, become.
We've gotta change our behavior.
If we wanna change our corebeliefs, it's happening.
If you're listening still, um.
Text me.
Text me if you have any ideas,if you have any advice, if you
feel the same way.
And most of all, if you're anaccountant who wants to help me,
and I'll see you guys next weekon the Math Therapy podcast, who
(29:14):
the fuck knows what the episodewill be about?
Because things have gottencompletely off the rails.
But you know what?
I do know one thing.
My taxes will be submitted bythen.
Peace out, peace, love, and pi.
David Kochberg (29:26):
Like get outta here.
Hello, this is David.
Usually Vanessa would insistthat you share an episode, but
because she's not convinced thatwe should even be publishing
this episode, if I have my way,we will publish it and I will be
the one now to insist that youshare this episode with that
friend of yours who just alwaysseems a little wound up and
(29:49):
really loves to outer processdirectly at your face.
You could just be like, Hey,I've got this great podcast
episode I think you'd reallylove.
Just send them this one.
And then maybe by comparisonthey'll listen to it and be
like, oh, maybe, maybe I'm inbetter shape than I thought.
Vanessa Vakharia (30:06):
Or maybe what?
Or maybe you two will start apodcast.
David Kochberg (30:10):
Yeah.
Okay.
Vanessa Vakharia (30:11):
You and your friend who's out or processing.
David Kochberg (30:13):
Now it's time to say goodbye.
Bye, Vanessa.
Vanessa Vakharia (30:20):
I don't know that we can air any of this.
David Kochberg (30:22):
we can decide this later.
I think this is all actuallyreally good.
Vanessa Vakharia (30:25):
Like I sound unhinged,
David Kochberg (30:28):
which is why it's so entertaining.
Okay.
just do.
Yeah,
Vanessa Vakharia (30:31):
I'm exhausted now.
David Kochberg (30:32):
Which is good.
mission accomplished from myperspective.
Vanessa Vakharia (30:35):
Okay.
Hello everyone, and welcome to another
episode, question mark of MathTherapy.
I am not sure what's about tohappen here.
All I know is that I'm behindthe mic because David told me he
was sick of listening to mecomplain, and if I was going to
be stressed and talk to himabout it, I might as well be
productive and turn it into anepisode.
So here we are.
(00:24):
And, um, I don't know.
I guess we're just gonna seewhat happens.
I'm sitting here with my therapycalculator, AKA, my stuffy from
TI Calculators, and I am herebecause, what can I say?
I am always.
Saying blah, blah, blah, thisanxiety, that trauma, blah.
We can fix things mindset, la,la, la, la, la.
(00:45):
There's so many solutions to somany problems.
But the truth is, I just likeeveryone else, have my own
anxieties.
Yes, about math, but about lifein general.
And the truth is that mathanxiety is just another form of
anxiety.
And anxiety in general is, Ialways say this, it is about the
fear of some future catastrophicevent and the fear that you're
(01:08):
not gonna be able to handle it.
And I feel like right now I amvery consumed with my own
anxieties and I.
I'm here to outer process thembecause actually I have a
legitimate therapy appointmentin four and a half hours.
And I was supposed to do allthis shit for my therapist last
week that I did not do, and nowI feel like she's gonna get mad
at me, which like she's notgonna do'cause I'm paying her.
And like, therapists don'tactually get mad at you, but I'm
like, maybe if I'm accountableto someone, AKA U, the listener,
(01:31):
I'll actually do the things Iwas supposed to do to feel less
anxious last week so that I feelless anxious by the time my
appointment rolls around in fourand a half hours.
So, without further ado.
David's face right now.
This was your idea.
Okay.
I am stressed.
Okay, I'm stressed because this,I feel this all started with a
mathematical reason actually,which is that it is tax time and
(01:55):
every tax season I get stressed.
Why do I get stressed?
I get stressed because I feellike I can't fucking understand
taxes.
Like here I am.
I, I like math, I understandmathematical operations.
Yet the entire tax system is soconvoluted and complicated that
I can't understand it, and whenI can't understand it, I feel
like I'm.
Out of control because this isabout money.
(02:16):
It's about my money, and thenall of a sudden you're like, I
don't know what's happeningright now.
Am I doing something wrong?
Is someone gonna come after me?
I don't understand what thesenumbers mean.
I don't understand what therules are.
I don't understand like whereI'm supposed to input this,
that, and the other thing.
I don't know.
I'm not detail oriented, so I'mlooking at the reports and I'm
like, this could be my income.
I'm not sure, is it.
Like, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't understand what's goingon, and it triggers my old math
(02:39):
anxiety because I'm back tobeing that kid who was like, I
don't know, I, if this makessense.
Like I'm plugging numbers intothe formula and I don't
understand if it makes sense.
Actually, maybe this is anargument against the algorithm.
I actually thought I was gonnaget on here and talk about how I
love the algorithm because itactually brings me so much peace
to plug shit in and get ananswer and be able to check it
off and just be done.
(02:59):
Just be finished to not have tothink for fucking once.
I know we love thinking, I getthat.
We love thinking, but likewouldn't it be nice to not have
to think for a second?
But now that I'm saying this,I'm like, maybe this is the
problem because I am pluggingshit into FreshBooks and it's
pumping out some number and Idon't understand what it's.
Doing, actually, maybe that'sthe problem with taxes in
general.
I don't actually understandwhat's happening.
Maybe I do need to think.
(03:20):
Maybe that, uh, okay.
Anyway, anyways, the point isthat like, so now I'm back to
this whole thing of being like,great, I don't know what's
happening.
I don't know if any of thesenumbers are correct.
I've gotta pay a bunch of money.
Is that right?
I don't know.
Am I not even paying the rightamount?
Is someone gonna come after me?
Is the IRS coming after me?
I know I live in Canada, butstill the IRS sounds scarier
than the CRA, but I'd be scaredif either of these people came
(03:41):
after me because I don't evenfeel like I have, I wouldn't be
able to argue because I don'tknow what they'd ask me, and I
don't know what I did.
So I wouldn't be able toconfidently be like, Nope, like
here's my thought process.
Like if they were like, explainyour thinking, I'd be like, bro,
like I can't.
I can't actually.
I just plug shit in.
And I guess that's what teachersdon't want to hear.
(04:02):
So this episode is, you know,when I started this episode, I
was like, how is this possiblygonna tie into math?
But already I'm like, well, herewe are.
Here are all the similarities.
I think that's it.
I think actually, the feeling ofnot knowing is creating this out
of control sensation where Ifeel so out of control, I don't
even know what questions to askevery time I do ask a question,
(04:24):
I'm gonna be honest when I askan accountant a question, I've
asked probably, I've probablyspoken to eight accountants in
my lifetime, and anytime I'veasked them to explain anything
to me, it has beenincomprehensible.
I don't know what they'resaying, so I end up feeling.
Dumber.
So I feel dumb.
Now I feel like I still don'tunderstand, and then I feel like
there's no way I can understandbecause this person is
(04:44):
explaining it to me and I can'tunderstand.
So again, it's triggering thisold math anxiety.
So like even when I'm asking theque, and then also half the time
I don't even know what questionto ask, right?
But when I do finally land on aquestion, the explanation just
leaves me more confused.
And this is how I assumestudents.
It's not how I assume.
I know how students feel in mathclass.
It's like.
We want them to ask us aquestion if they don't
(05:04):
understand, and they're like, Ican't even begin to know what to
ask you because I have no ideawhat the fuck is going on.
And then they ask the question,we explain it to them in this
like kind voice.
We're like, see, it makes sensenow.
And they're like, it actuallymakes less sense.
So now they feel even worseabout themselves because now
they've tried.
Like, at least when I don't try,like I, if my mindset actually
(05:24):
was, you know what?
I don't need to know what'sgoing on.
I trust my accountant, they'rejust gonna take care of it.
I'm on a need to know basis.
I don't need to know.
I would feel a lot better.
I would feel better.
The point is, when you try tounderstand something, when you
decide I'm gonna finally puteffort in, and then you can't
understand it.
It doesn't feel good.
I actually talk about this a lotbecause I always talk about how,
(05:46):
uh, math anxiety leads tolearners entering the fear
anticipatory and avoidancecycle, which is like, you're
scared of this thing, like I'mscared of my taxes, so I have
all this anticipatory anxietyaround it, which is what if I
try to understand it and then Ican't understand it, and like it
makes me feel even worse, and Ialready feel not understanding
it and not answering questionsor asking questions.
(06:08):
So I avoid, I go into avoidance,which I've done for a while,
like I actually avoid for like360 days of the year.
I'm like, I'm just not evengonna think about it.
And then when tax times comesand I decide to like break the
avoidance cycle where I'm like,you know what?
I'm not gonna avoid it, I'mactually gonna like see if I can
understand it.
It gets so much worse becauselike it feels like everything is
(06:28):
so chaotic and helpless andcrazy.
And then now I've tried to dosomething about it, and I'm in a
worse position because I feeldumb, and I would've rather just
kept my head in the sand.
And this is why honestly, somany people just don't try to do
more math.
They're like, I don't wanna knowwhat I don't know because it's
gonna make me feel shitty.
But the truth is what I reallyneed to do, I'm realizing as I
say this out loud, is I need tofind someone to explain this to
(06:51):
me.
Like I'm obviously capable ofunderstanding how taxes work.
Right.
I can do calculus.
I must be able to understand howfucking taxes work.
If anyone is listening to thisand would like to explain them
to me, I think I need a Canadianaccountant.
This is not a pitch for anaccountant, but I think I do
need a Canadian person toexplain to me how my taxes are
(07:12):
working and explain it to me ina really nice manner.
I need you to explain it to melike, in the way that I
understand it, if I don'tunderstand it, like just, just
find another way.
Like, so if anyone wants toexplain my taxes to me, I
actually just need to hire anaccountant.
So would you like to be myaccountant?
Okay, moving on.
This is how my whole anxietyspiral started, two days ago,
was with taxes, so I startedfeeling outta control with my
(07:33):
taxes.
Then what happened was I startedfeeling out of control about
social media.
I was like, oh my God, my taxes,like, I think that was just like
in my mind, this feeling outtacontrolness, and then maybe it
was a confirmation bias thing.
I don't really know.
I started like, subconsciouslygrasping onto everything I felt
out of control about.
I was like, oh my God, I'm sobehind on social media.
(07:53):
I've got all this content.
It's all disorganized in myphone.
I don't even know where it is,like where are all these videos?
And then it comes time to make asocial media post and I don't
even know what to look forbecause it's all, I haven't
categorized it all.
Like, uh, whatever, like, blah,blah.
Then I went to like Google Driveto find something and I couldn't
find it, and I was like, I have.
System here, like this iscompletely disorganized.
Like what am I doing?
And then I was like, oh, I don'tknow.
(08:13):
I was like, where am I evenorganizing all my deadlines?
Like how do I know I'm gonna geteverything done this entire
year?
Like, and then me and David weretalking about our band and I was
like, we have all these songs.
We just finished an album.
We don't have a release plan.
If we want stuff to come out in2027, we have to start now.
We haven't even started.
And oh my god, it was on and onand on.
And I don't know about you guys,but like I wake up and I just
feel this way.
Like I wake up and all of asudden I'm like, I'm out of
(08:34):
control.
Everything's outta control.
So last week I was telling mytherapist this and my therapist
was like, okay, but like, do youhave a gratitude practice?
And I was like, what the fuck?
Like again, I really believe ina gratitude practice and I
preach this all the time.
Like she was like, instead ofwhen you get up and you start
thinking about all the thingsthat you're doing wrong and all
the things that are outtacontrol, what if you instead
(08:56):
start with the things you feelgrateful for?
And I was like, you know what?
That's it.
I am always like focusing on theback foot.
Like right now, you can hear me.
I sound insane and unhinged,right?
Because I'm like, oh my God,like I'm behind on this.
I don't know that I blah, blah,blah, blah, blah.
So what if I actually do go intogratitude.
Now, I was supposed to be doingthis every day when I wake up
(09:16):
and I feel this panic about allthis stuff I'm behind on.
I was supposed to be, I, I ha Iwas supposed to be doing my own
exercise.
I actually told my therapistthis, I was like, this is a
great idea.
I actually teach students andteachers to do this thing
called,"I used to think, now Iknow", right?
Because we're so focused on allof this stuff, like we have not
done and we're behind on.
Instead of being like, yeah, buthold on.
(09:39):
Look at how far I've come.
So my idea was I should do thisevery morning when I get up.
As soon as I start having thesethoughts of like, oh my God, I'm
so behind, I'm not good enough.
I should be like, hold on, let'smake note of something you've
progressed on.
Have I done that a single daythis week?
I have not.
So we're gonna do it right now.
Let's see if it works.
Okay.
So, okay.
Okay.
Okay.
So I just told you guys all thethings I'm stressed about, is
(10:00):
this good?
Should we end this?
I don't know if we shouldrelease this.
I sound insane.
David Kochberg (10:06):
Yeah, we can decide that later.
Vanessa Vakharia (10:07):
Okay, so you
David Kochberg (10:08):
sound insane.
Vanessa Vakharia (10:09):
Let's try.
Let's try this.
I used to think, now I know.
Okay, so let's just think aboutsome things I can celebrate now
instead of focusing on all thethings I feel out of control on.
Okay.
Number one, and this is hard.
This is hard because right nowmy mind is like, no, no, like
focus on all the things like mymind is trying to be like, but
all the things you're so behindon you haven't done.
Let's think about all of thethings I have accomplished or I
(10:31):
have progressed on.
Okay, so for example.
I used to blank and now I blank.
Like, let's think of someprogress here.
Okay.
You know what?
I had two talks this week.
I went to New York and toChicago, and both of them were
new talks that I hadn't donebefore.
And normally I would've been sostressed about them.
I would've been so stressed.
(10:51):
I would've been nervous, Iwould've not been able to get to
sleep at night.
And actually.
I was not stressed.
I was like, I kind of knew.
I was like, you know what?
It's all good.
I'm gonna tweak my slides.
I'm gonna go in there with anair of curiosity and we're gonna
see what happens.
And I'm just, I know that.
I know my stuff.
So that's actually good, right?
Like that is good.
(11:11):
I like literally a year ago ormonths ago, I would not have
reacted that way.
I would've been like, oh my God,I'm panicked, these
presentations would've weighedon my mind.
They would've interfered with mylike day-to-day life and they
didn't, I actually had a greattime, so that is progress.
Okay.
Number two, here's number.
You know what?
Here's something else that'sgreat.
Even though I was superstressed, like all week when I
(11:31):
woke up in the morning, I'd wakeup panicked.
I didn't, I actually stuck tothe behavior that I knew would
make me feel good.
So even though I woke up andwanted to like immediately get
on my phone and start, becausethat's like kind of like, again,
it's a control response you feeloutta control.
So like you look for somethingto control.
And for me, I pick up my phoneand start just like looking at
emails and texts and socialmedia and being like, what can
(11:52):
provide me temporary relief, orwhat can I just do?
Like my control mechanism is towork.
So like normally I'm like,you've gotta get up and you
start gotta start answeringemails.
But instead I was like, Nope,you're gonna get up, you're
gonna make your cup of tea,you're gonna read the Power of
Now by Eckhart Tolle, you'regonna do your meditation with
your ice pack on your face, andthen you're gonna go to the gym.
And you know what?
(12:12):
I did it every single day.
That is progress.
Like I should be really proud ofmyself for that.
Vanessa.
Okay.
Be proud of yourself.
Like, great.
That is progress.
That's like amazing.
That is good.
You're controlling that.
I'm in control of that.
Okay.
Okay.
I need one more.
I'm thinking about the taxthing.
(12:33):
I feel like I need something tocombat the tax outta
controlness.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I've got one.
I'm here talking about it.
I just put a call out to anaccountant and also yesterday a
friend of mine suggested heraccountant for next year.
Like for this year.
I know I'm too late, whatever.
And I emailed that accountant.
So I got the ball rolling ofpotentially finding another
(12:54):
accountant.
And here is what I actually needto remember.
I have been fine, right?
No one has come for me.
I have paid my taxes, eventhough I don't understand them,
nothing bad has happened, right?
So like, I think maybe thisneeds to be a thing of like,
even though I don't fullyunderstand it, they are being
(13:17):
taken care of.
My accountant knows obviously tosome extent what's going on.
And I do feel, honestly, when Italk to accountants, there are
multiple ways to do a lot ofthings.
So like, my accountant has madea decision to do things a
certain way and it's working outfine, and I think I'm actually
just, you know what?
Okay, here we go.
Here we go.
I think I am justcatastrophizing all these
(13:37):
things.
Like I'm like, I'm like, what ifI'm doing them wrong?
I don't know that I'm doing themwrong.
What if I'm paying too much intaxes?
I don't know that that'shappening.
What if I'm paying too little intaxes?
I don't actually know thatthat's happening.
What if there's a better way todo X, Y, and Z?
I don't actually know that anyof these things are true.
Okay.
That is actually calming medown.
(13:58):
I'm just making this up.
I'm just thinking of the what ifworst case scenario.
What if, what if, as Mel Robbinssays, what if the best thing
happens?
Like, what if I'm paying theexact right amount of taxes,
right?
What if I, what if I'm actuallygetting away with not knowing
anything and not doing any ofthe work myself because my
accountant does it and I don'tneed to understand it?
(14:20):
What if my accountant has foundsome amazing ways for me to save
money, to pay my taxesresponsibly in a non-labor
intensive way that could behappening?
And this actually reminds me weare, is the negativity bias
guys.
It's the negativity bias, alwaysfocusing on the what if the
(14:42):
worst thing happens?
It's like, but nothing bad ishappening.
Everything could be fine.
So why don't I just choose tobelieve that?
And that is the question.
Why don't we just choose tobelieve that the best thing is
happening?
And again, this is gonna helpme.
This is gonna, okay.
Thank you guys for listening.
This is actually now starting tohelp me.
This is gonna help because whydon't we just focus on the best
(15:02):
thing.
Because we are born with anegativity bias for protection.
That's what's happening.
Our brains are trying to protectus.
So I constantly wake up scanningmy environment for threats.
I really do.
I wake up being like, what couldI have missed out on?
What could I have fucked up?
Like what could I be doingwrong?
Like, oh my God, and that'swhat's happening.
But what I need to do is.
Actually what my therapist said,which is, what am I doing right?
(15:25):
I have to get up and write downthese things.
I just told you, here are allthe things I'm doing right.
I'm sticking to my routine, I'mgoing to the gym.
I'm eating healthy.
I am making a to-do list.
See, already watch guys.
As I'm talking, I'm like, yeah,but my to-do list is a mess and
I haven't like coordinated itproperly and maybe I should be
using a physical calendar.
Okay, so now what do I do?
(15:45):
Yes.
Those things are true.
Maybe, but why am I focusedagain on the all the things I'm
doing wrong?
Like I haven't missed adeadline.
Like I'm carrying on, likeeverything's fine.
But I guess we're always like,but what if we could be doing
this thing better?
Honestly, I remember listeningto this Mel Robbins podcast
episode and she said in it, no,her guest said, everyone dies
(16:06):
with a to-do list.
Like you're never gonna diebeing like, ha, yeah, I guess
I've figured it all out and I'mall done.
That's not what happens.
We're constantly working onthings.
We're constantly works inprogress.
Like, you know, we are curiousand interested and always
wanting to try new things and dothings better.
So we're always gonna feel alittle bit of.
What if I try this, what I if Itry that.
(16:27):
And I notice this not just formyself but my friends, right?
We're always focused on ourdeficits.
Like, oh, I just can't get ittogether.
Like, I can't make it to thegym.
I can't ever get my to-do liststraight.
I'm always behind.
Like, so how do I rewire thatthought?
And I think I really have tochange my mentality of being
like, I'm trying my best, andevery morning I need to write,
you know what?
(16:47):
Every morning and every night Iam, I need to do this.
I need to, every morning I needto wake up and be like, okay,
here's something great thathappened, or something I'm
really, really proud of andreally in control of.
And at the end of the day, Ineed to be like, here's
something I really fuckingnailed today.
Instead of thinking of the threethings I did not get done.
Period.
I have to do it.
I have to do it starting rightnow.
(17:08):
I'm doing it right now vocallyon the podcast, but I need to
write them down.
Okay.
We now have four hours and 15minutes until my therapy
session.
Okay?
So I do feel just to circle thisback, even though this is about
me, but now I'm a littledeescalated.
Thank fuck.
I wanna think about students andmath because this really is
(17:28):
making me think so much of whathappens with not just our
students, but teachers.
I feel like this is the thing isas educators, we are so burnt
down and stressed becausethere's always a million more
things we could be doing thatwe're not doing.
We really do not take the timeto be like, look at the 4
million things I did this week.
Look at the incredibleexperiences I created for
students.
(17:48):
Look at that student that I madelaugh.
Look at the student that I madesmile.
Look at this like huge win Ihad.
There's gonna be an endlessarray of things we have yet to
do, and what makes it even worseslash better is we're constantly
going to professionaldevelopment.
What, what is the definition ofprofessional development?
Like developing professionally,that means growing and trying
new things.
So every time we go to a pd,it's like, that's so exciting,
(18:11):
but I feel like we can't helpbut feel a bit deficit about it
because like we're basicallybeing taught to do things we are
not doing.
Right.
Like yeah, sometimes.
I mean, I hope that I'm alwayslike at least affirming the
educators in the room to belike, oh my God, look at all the
amazing stuff you are doing, butI'm also teaching you new
things, which means there's achance you're gonna leave and be
like, oh my God, now there'seven more stuff I need to do.
How do we approach that withexcitement and curiosity instead
(18:34):
of deficit thinking about whatwe're already doing?
And that's a question I'mthrowing out there.
If you have any advice,honestly, text me right now.
Honestly, I I'm, I, I feel likeyou're probably all texting me
right now.
My phone is probably blowing upbecause you're probably all
deeply concerned, but like,don't be, but I will take any
advice.
Um, don't be, I feel like I am,I mean, we know that I'm an
outer processor.
You guys know if you've beenlistening to me for this long,
(18:56):
not today, but like in generallife, and I do feel like it's
like, like having that grace tobe like, we can have all the
strategies.
And guys, I have so manystrategies.
I always welcome more strategiesand I'm always learning more
strategies.
I'm always reading, I'm seeing atherapist, like I'm listening to
podcasts.
But even with the strategies, wehave to remember that we are
fighting a biologicalevolutionary, um,
(19:20):
characteristic.
Because sometimes, like honestlytoday I had an outburst just
being like, what is wrong withme?
Like, why am I always thinkinglike, okay guys, I'm a positive
per like, I consider myself tobe a positive person.
Okay.
I do.
However, and like, and like thisisn't like an egotistical thing.
Like, oh my God, I'm sopositive.
But I really, I am constantlytrying and do see the positive
(19:42):
side of things.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, I can be like, my life isamazing.
I'm so grateful for this, dah,dah, dah, dah.
But the voice in my head, likethe, the clenching feeling
around my chest of likeconstantly feeling like the
other shoe is going to drop, Ifeel like that is tied to.
Feeling like a not enoughness,like we're never gonna be doing
enough.
Like there's some things out ofcontrol.
(20:03):
We're gonna get in trouble.
And I do feel like so much ofthat is tied to education.
Like I really, really feel likeit's tied to what we were taught
in school, which was there'salways more you could be doing.
You always need to beproductive.
You need to be getting goodgrades.
Like if you're sitting arounddaydreaming, you're lazy, like
you're a bad student.
(20:23):
Like there's this idea of like,you're supposed to have all your
shit together and just know howto do all these things and never
ask the same question twice.
Never even ask a question.
Just like know and know whateverybody else knows.
Now it sounds like I'm blamingthe entire education system and
math class for my anxiety andpersonal failings as a human,
which I'm not, but I do thinkit's part of it.
So I actually listened to twopodcasts in the past few months.
(20:44):
One with Mel Robbins, one withElizabeth Gilbert, and they were
incredible.
They were about productivity andhow it is one of our biggest
cultural problems of this time,this feeling that we have to
constantly be productive.
And hustling and how it'sleading to extreme burnout.
Like just this idea of like,we're never doing enough.
And in my mind I was like, I, Iactually think Mel Robbins made
this tie to the classroomexperience.
(21:06):
It's just an interesting thingto think about and look at.
I won't like harp on it, but Ido think it's really important
for us to think as educators orhumans, whoever's listening to
this, who grew up in thissystem, to think of how we want
to make that experiencedifferent for the kids that we
teach, right?
Like this idea of like, ifyou're not doing something, if
(21:26):
you're not producing something,you're not a valuable citizen.
Because it has led to so many ofus like feeling like we cannot
relax or ever like do anythingright or do anything enough.
And it makes me like, it makesme go back to negativity bias.
And actually what I'm reallythinking about now is not only
negativity bias, butconfirmation bias.
Because I think I reallystruggle with that too.
(21:48):
This idea of like.
I feel out of, oh my God.
No, I think I'm realizing whathappened now, okay guys, I'm
having an epiphany.
I'm having an epiphany.
What happened is, remember Itold you guys, it all started
with the tax thing, so I'mfeeling out of control.
I feel like everything's out ofcontrol.
Okay, great.
So all of a sudden that has beentriggered in me.
I'm out of control.
So now the sneaky confirmationbias kicks in where like again,
(22:10):
this is something we haveevolved with.
Like we want to confirm thatwhat we believe is true, it
helps us feel safer.
So now I feel like I'msubconsciously trying to confirm
that I am out of control.
And that's probably why Istarted fucking being like, and
my calendar's out of control andall of these photos are
disorganized on my phone and Idon't even know where these
deadlines are.
And like, I need to plan 2027.
(22:30):
I guess I'm like subconsciouslytrying to find.
Confirmation that I am out ofcontrol.
Instead of just being like, Ifeel out of control with my
taxes, let me deal with thatbecause I'm not actually out of
control here.
Right?
I just don't understand a fewthings.
That's literally it.
That's all that's happeningright now.
And then moving on that, andthat's what a spiral often is.
(22:51):
A spiral is often negativitybias and confirmation bias.
Just like being besties andcreating complete chaos on club
night at 3:00 AM after too manyvodka shots like that, is it,
that's what's happening.
They're just like, woo, likelet's fucking go.
Like, I actually think that iswhat's happening.
So then the question becomes,what strategies do I have?
(23:13):
To negate those two things to belike, I know what's up, you
guys.
I know what you're up to.
And I, I, this is one of thosemoments where I think I also get
mad at myself because I'm like,oh my God.
Like I know better.
I know all the strategies, likewhy am I not practicing what I
preach?
But for everyone listening, whoprobably feels the same way
sometimes.
(23:34):
That's why the saying it'seasier said than done, literally
exists.
Because it's easier said thandone.
Honestly.
Like, do you, like therapistsneed therapists too, right?
Like every single like therapistI know has their own therapist
because it's not just because,you know, strategy suddenly like
you're like, fine, right?
Like.
Knowing something and acting onit are two different things,
(23:55):
right?
Like belief and behavior are twodifferent things.
So even though we know thesestrategies, the hardest time to
employ them is when you're incrisis, right?
Like the hardest time to employtake a deep breath and like
chill out is when you're in themiddle of crisis.
That's actually why they say,it's a practice.
Meditation is a practice becauseyou're supposed to fucking
(24:17):
practice it before you reallyneed to use it, right?
You're supposed to practice itevery single day, meditate for
10 minutes every single day, sothat when the time comes when
you're hyperventilating on apodcast, you know, you can then
easily go into meditating for 10minutes.
You're not like for the firsttime ever trying to be like, oh
my God, let me figure out how tomeditate now that I'm in
hyperventilation mode.
(24:37):
Right?
And that's the same with math.
I have to say.
This is why it's like you're nottrying to learn like the time to
learn how to like solve thequadratic equation or multiply
fractions is not on the test,right?
It's not the day before, evenwhen you're escalated about the
test.
You wanna be in the regularpractice of mathematical
(24:58):
activity and thinking everysingle day so that when you face
a challenging problem or a highstake situation, it's muscle
memory to you.
Okay, so you know what?
This is what I'm gonnacongratulate myself for doing
another thing, quote unquote,right?
Which is I do meditate as apractice.
It might not sound like it rightnow, but I do meditate almost
(25:18):
every single morning I do.
So yes, sometimes it's hard tocall in those strategies in the
moment, and I'm being hard onmyself for that.
But if you were saying to me,yeah, I know, like it's just
really hard for me to, in themoment to catch myself, I just
start panicking.
I wouldn't be like, you're ahorrible person.
I'd be like, yes, that'scompletely normal and all you
can do every time is pause, tryto deescalate and try to employ
(25:42):
one of your strategies.
And quite frankly, that's what Idid this morning.
I woke up panicked and I waslike, oh my God, I just wanna go
smoke a pack of cigarettes eventhough I haven't smoked in five
months.
And I'm just gonna like, I justwanna order a coffee and smoke
cigs.
And I was like.
What you're going to do, even ifyou don't want to, is Mel
Robbins 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, put onyour clothes and go to the gym.
And I did because I've been inthe practice of going to the gym
(26:03):
all week that today it wasmuscle memory and I just did it
and I felt so much better after.
Okay.
So all of that to say, it's somuch easier to give advice than
to take your own advice or totake advice from others, but
also I wanna just like, I guess,share that on my like quote
unquote best days, you know, onthe days where I'm like aligned,
(26:26):
I am using all my strategies, Ifeel like I can get myself out
of a negative mind loop.
Those days happen.
Right?
And I really believe those dayshappen more and more the more
you engage in the practices.
I think about like days whenI've like been anxious for like,
you know, I've woken up superanxious and I've just been like,
fuck it, I'm not using a singlestrategy and it persists.
(26:47):
Whereas like if I start usingthe strategies, it actually like
things slowly but surely calmdown and like a day later or
maybe two days or maybe thatevening, I do move out of
feeling, out of control and moreinto a place of being like,
first of all, you can't controleverything in life.
That is just a fact, and that'scompletely fine.
And the things you feel out ofcontrol of A, do not matter, or
(27:11):
B, are not as outta control asyou think I do.
And there, there are days likeobviously right now where it's a
lot harder to employ thosestrategies and to get into that
type of aligned mindset, it's alot harder.
That being said, those daysaren't all the time.
And I kind of just want, I,first of all really, I came on
here because David kind offorced me to,'cause he was
getting really annoyed at me.
(27:31):
And I don't know if this wasbeneficial to, quite frankly,
anyone except for David who'sraising his hand right now, um,
but I do, I mean, I actuallyfeel a lot better, which is why
one of my favorite strategies isactually just outer processing.
Like really, because I actuallydidn't even really know what was
going on until I, until Istarted to tell you guys.
And I couldn't tell David'causehe didn't wanna listen unless he
was recording this as a podcast.
(27:52):
And now I'm like, okay, Iactually see what happened.
And really I feel like that's atthe heart of the work of that
all of us are doing is seeingour patterns.
Seeing what's happening, seeingwhat's actually the actual root,
like, holy fuck.
I honestly do feel so muchbetter.
I'm like, it's not about thetaxes, it's about, it's not
about the calendar.
It's not, it's about feeling outof control and like I'm doing
something wrong.
(28:12):
It's a control thing.
Okay guys, I don't know what hashappened.
It's not that I blacked out ordissociated'cause I am very
present.
But, uh, David is telling methat I do not sound as
self-indulgent and egotisticaland negative as I think I do
right now, and to just trust himwith the process.
So maybe this episode will air,if you're listening to me say
this, then it has aired.
(28:33):
But thank you guys forlistening.
It actually really, reallyhelped.
I am going to open my phonejournal right now.
Open my notes up like I was toldto a week ago by my therapist
and start a note that I willevery morning and every night
write in.
I'm doing it.
I'm promising you this.
Fuck, okay, I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it.
(28:53):
Believe, behave, become.
We've gotta change our behavior.
If we wanna change our corebeliefs, it's happening.
If you're listening still, um.
Text me.
Text me if you have any ideas,if you have any advice, if you
feel the same way.
And most of all, if you're anaccountant who wants to help me,
and I'll see you guys next weekon the Math Therapy podcast, who
(29:14):
the fuck knows what the episodewill be about?
Because things have gottencompletely off the rails.
But you know what?
I do know one thing.
My taxes will be submitted bythen.
Peace out, peace, love, and pi.
David Kochberg (29:26):
Like get outta here.
Hello, this is David.
Usually Vanessa would insistthat you share an episode, but
because she's not convinced thatwe should even be publishing
this episode, if I have my way,we will publish it and I will be
the one now to insist that youshare this episode with that
friend of yours who just alwaysseems a little wound up and
(29:49):
really loves to outer processdirectly at your face.
You could just be like, Hey,I've got this great podcast
episode I think you'd reallylove.
Just send them this one.
And then maybe by comparisonthey'll listen to it and be
like, oh, maybe, maybe I'm inbetter shape than I thought.
Vanessa Vakharia (30:06):
Or maybe what?
Or maybe you two will start apodcast.
David Kochberg (30:10):
Yeah.
Okay.
Vanessa Vakharia (30:11):
You and your friend who's out or processing.
David Kochberg (30:13):
Now it's time to say goodbye.
Bye, Vanessa.
Vanessa Vakharia (30:20):
I don't know that we can air any of this.
David Kochberg (30:22):
we can decide this later.
I think this is all actuallyreally good.
Vanessa Vakharia (30:25):
Like I sound unhinged,
David Kochberg (30:28):
which is why it's so entertaining.
Okay.
just do.
Yeah,
Vanessa Vakharia (30:31):
I'm exhausted now.
David Kochberg (30:32):
Which is good.
mission accomplished from myperspective.
Vanessa Vakharia (30:35):
Okay.
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