April 7, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode, Charles and Dan dive into Chapter 7 of Dating Essentials for Men by Dr. Robert Glover: Use the Secret Women Don’t Want You to Know to Your Advantage. Despite the clickbait title, the conversation goes deep on the real myths and mental traps men fall into when trying to connect with women—and how to break free.
🔥 Topics include:
- The hidden cost of believing women are superior or "complicated"
- Emotional vs. logical thinking—are men really more rational?
- Why looking strong is different from being strong
- How media and rom-coms mislead men about love
- Why covert contracts destroy trust and connection
- The truth about the friend zone (and why it’s deceptive)
- How to date with honesty, confidence, and clarity
- The “Icing, Not Cake” philosophy of healthy relationships
Whether you’re new to dating, recovering from nice-guy habits, or just want more honest, meaningful connections—this episode is packed with real talk, insight, and humor.
📍Listen now and challenge what you think you know about women.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Charles (00:00):
I would say spend your time not being a piece of crap
and understanding why you're nota piece of crap.
Sage advice Instead of figuringout how you can trick the world
Right.
Really, the people that win injust about every area of life
are the people whose subjectiveview of the world most closely
matches up to what the worldobjectively is, which is up to
(00:23):
what the world objectively is,and so if you can look at
yourself and other people andthe world around you in a way
that's as close to the way thatit really is, instead of the
biased way that you taughtyourself to think that it is,
you'll have the best outcomes.
Welcome back to the MindfullyMasculine Podcast.
This is Charles.
In this episode, dan and I willcontinue to discuss dating
essentials for men by Dr RobertGlover, and we're going to focus
(00:45):
on Chapter 7, the name of whichis Use the Secret Women Don't
Want you to Know, to yourAdvantage, which Dan and I both
find a little clickbaity, maybecringey, but we'll discuss what
Dr Glover gets into.
Some of those topics willinclude common myths about women
, emotional versus logicalthinking and the accompanying
(01:08):
gender stereotypes, mentalhealth and gender differences,
authenticity in dating andrelationships, security and
stability in romanticrelationships, the icing not
cake philosophy, media influenceand unrealistic romantic
expectations and other topics.
Please check out our websitemindfullymasculinecom to find
(01:31):
our audio episodes, videoepisodes and anything else we
feel like sharing.
Thanks and enjoy.
Dan (01:38):
Hey Charles, How's it going ?
Charles (01:39):
Still going.
Great, Dan Thanks.
How are you doing?
I am doing great.
One of the first sections ofChapter 7, which we're about to
cover, dr glover's editor made aword plural by adding an
apostrophe s instead of just ans, and so let's talk about that
for an hour, because I thatabsolutely.
I fixate on that.
Dan (01:57):
When people do that, apostrophes do not make plurals,
they make possessives, dan,yeah, listen, if it's somebody
writing something like an emailor a text, whatever, not a big
deal, but if you're publishingit, that's a little bit of a
faux pas in my book.
Charles (02:10):
The first subsection in this chapter is Myths About
Women.
M-y-t-h apostrophe.
S, yes, okay, I didn't know amyth, something yeah, it can't,
but yeah, we yeah.
Well, other than our attentionat this point.
It's actually oh, it drives meit really.
Grammatically, it is one of mybiggest pet peeves.
(02:31):
Yeah, I see it a lot with likedays of the week, like how you
should spend your sundays withan apostrophe s anyway.
So let's talk about some ofthese myths about women, and
again the chapter title is Usethe Secret Women Don't Want you
to Know to your Advantage.
Dan (02:50):
They're better at grammar.
Charles (02:51):
Is that the first secret?
Often they are.
I do find that, yeah, typicallywritten communication with
women is usually better thanwritten communication with men.
Fair enough, I can't disagreewith that.
Okay, so myth number one isthat women are inherently
superior to men.
I don't know anybody thatbelieves this or would say that,
so I don't know how widespreadof a myth it is.
(03:12):
I guess his position is thatbad daters and inexperienced
daters and men who are notconfident in dating they may
live as if women are superior tomen, but I don't know anybody
that is such a blanket statement.
Dan (03:27):
In what ways are they superior?
So that's the thing is yeah, Ithink there's a lot of other
things you need to unpack if youare walking around with that
type of real general type offeeling, because everybody's
different, right, so you can'tsay one woman might be better
than you at one thing and youmight be better than another.
Dude, come on, yeah, I thinkthat's yeah.
I would say I don't know whatthat would be.
(03:49):
Necessarily Could be some sortof trauma as a child or some
sort of really bad experiencesthat make you feel like women
are inherently superior than men.
There's going to be asignificant reason why you're
thinking that.
Yeah, I would say so too.
Charles (04:02):
There's going to be a significant reason why you're
thinking that, yeah, I would sayso too, and without follow-up,
like you said, superior in whatway and superior in what part of
life.
And yeah, I would say, if youare walking around, I think
that's a self-limiting belief,but I would go as far to say the
opposite Women are inherentlyinferior to men.
If you're walking around withthat one bouncing around in your
(04:24):
head, that's a self-limitingbelief too, and both of those
are going to severely crippleyour ability to engage in
fulfilling relationships.
Dan (04:33):
Yeah, generalizing in general is just not a great idea
right now.
But again, like you said, thatkind of goes back to our
self-limiting beliefs and ourability to feel like we've got
the world figured out.
Charles (04:45):
It's real easy to do that when you've got these
really big blanketgeneralizations, exactly, yeah,
and, but it's not going to getyou where you at least say you
want to go.
It's not going to help to thinkthat all women are great and
all men are trash, or all menare great and all women are any
of those?
Yeah, they're a big blind spotin your game.
Dan (05:04):
And if that's what you feel like.
What are you supposed to doabout it?
If that's a real belief, thenit sounds to me also the
secondary, the corollary of thatis there's nothing you can do
about it.
That's just the way it is.
At that point, it's almost likeyou're in this hopeless
position so you're just going togo throughout life looking for
a way to be subservient to awoman.
(05:25):
Is that like your approach?
Charles (05:26):
then yeah, or, and I would say it can even go in the
opposite direction, where, okay,if I believe that all women are
superior to men, therefore theonly men that can have women are
the ones who are really good attricking them, and it to you
know into not into thinking thatthey're better.
The only way I can get a womanis to trick her into thinking
(05:47):
that I'm not a piece of crap.
So, therefore, I'm going tospend my time trying to hone the
skills and the techniques ofthe tricks for getting to act
like I'm worth more than Iactually am.
I would say spend your time notbeing a piece of crap and
understanding why you're not apiece of crap.
Sage advice Instead of figuringout how you can trick the world
(06:10):
.
Right, really, the people thatwin in just about every area of
life are the people whosesubjective view of the world
most closely matches up to whatthe world objectively is, and so
if you can look at yourself andother people and the world
around you in a way that's asclose to the way that it really
is, instead of the biased waythat you taught yourself to
(06:32):
think that it is, you'll havethe best outcomes.
Yeah, and really the only wayyou can do that is by practicing
engaging with the world asoften as you can, and also be
willing to let go of what you'reconvinced is the way things are
and look for evidence to say Imight have this wrong.
I might need to.
I might need to edit the waythat I see the world and get it
(06:56):
to more lineup with the way theworld actually is.
Okay, the next myth myth numbertwo women are complicated.
Here's the deal People arecomplicated and also quite
simple, and you need to be ableto hold both of those opinions
in your head at the same time ina way that makes sense.
Because, yeah, we talked aboutit, I think, with the very last
book.
(07:16):
We covered the Man's Guide toWomen.
There's not some deep mysteryto how women work or how they
choose to operate or thedecisions they make.
That is just completelyunfathomable to men and we can
never.
They're just so complicatedthat we can never figure out.
No number one.
You could ask them and assumethat, given some thought and
(07:38):
some self-examination, they cangive you answers that are
valuable and that make sense andthat are true which I've found
to be the Most women that if yougo to the effort of asking a
woman what makes her tick andwhat is she interested in and
what does she prioritize.
Number one, she'll appreciateyou asking and number two, in my
experience, she'll give somepretty deep thought to trying to
give you an accurate answer.
(07:59):
Now again, we don't all haveourselves figured out.
At some level we're going to dothings and behave in ways that
we don't even understand, and Ithink that's natural and normal
to understand.
That's the way people work.
But when you ask somebody likehey, I want to connect to you
and understand you more deeply,most people, and women
especially, will find that agood use of their time to try to
(08:21):
come up with a good answer foryou their time to try to come up
with a good answer for you.
So, yeah, the idea that womenare chaotic and mysterious and
just they're so complicated thatyou can't figure them out, it's
just a.
It's a lazy way out to to stopyou from having to figure it out
.
One one thing I'd said beforeonline to people is why is it
(08:42):
that the same guy who complainsabout how complicated and hard
to understand women are, if youask them, what was the last
nonfiction book you've read thatwas written by a woman.
In many cases they will say, oh, I've never read a nonfiction
book written by a woman.
Dan (08:58):
That's interesting.
Charles (08:59):
Yeah.
Dan (08:59):
Yeah, or a nonfiction book?
Oh, almost Right, that's too.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's the thing too.
Is you got to?
I think the key here isrealizing that the tool set that
you have available to you andthat you're using may not be the
right ones to help youunderstand what a woman goes
through and what they, what theydeal with and what they think
(09:19):
about and how they behave.
So that's the thing is, if youare closed minded and not
willing to consider other ideasand listen, read and do some
research on it and build yourskillset.
Yeah, a car is complicated toeverybody.
It's not a mechanic Exactly.
Yeah, a mechanic has studiedsome cars before, so to him it
might, or her it might not be abig deal, and it's no different.
Charles (09:43):
You're right, that's absolutely true.
Yeah, I love the quote thateverything is a conspiracy
theory when you understand hownothing works.
Because, yeah, if you're tryingto get some insight into how
something operates but you don'tknow anything about it, then
all you can really do is oh,there's an earthquake and a
flood, it must be the sun, godmust be angry.
For some reason.
(10:03):
You really revert back intobeing a caveman, exactly.
So here's something he saysthat I'd like to get your take
on.
In general, women have much moreaccess to the right hemisphere
of their brains than most men do.
Okay, that sounds reasonable.
The right side is the emotionalside of the brain.
Therefore, women's thinking andlogic tends to be influenced
more by feelings than a man'sdoes.
(10:24):
Okay, I don't know if I agreewith that.
That seems like a bit of a leapto me, and the idea that,
speaking again in general terms,men are more logical and women
are more emotional.
That doesn't seem to play outthat way in my own experience.
Okay, and I thought about thisquite a bit on the long drive
(10:44):
over this morning.
Here's how I'm going to say it.
You remember Peanuts, thePeanuts characters, snoopy,
charlie Brown and all that?
Linus had this blanket that hewould carry around with him for
security.
Even though he was a little tooold to, by most standards, to
be walking around with a blanket, he did.
What I would say is that notthat men are more logical and
(11:07):
women are more emotional, but Iwould say that, men, we use
logic and order as our securityblanket more frequently than
women do.
Okay, and women use connectionand emotion as their security
blanket more often than men do.
But to say that men areinherently more logical,
(11:28):
rational, reasonable and womenare more chaotic, emotional than
men, it just doesn't play truefor me, because I and often the
most men, the men who spend themost time insisting on how
logical they are, seem to be themost emotional men that I've
ever met.
Dan (11:42):
That's interesting.
Yeah, yeah I, I listen.
I think everything exists on acontinuum right and so I don't
know if you can say one istypically more than another.
I think you need to really lookat yourself and figure out hey,
how do I like to typically dealwith situations?
How do I soothe myself?
Yeah, yes, exactly, and itcould be you might need more of
(12:03):
the the belly breathing, and thefor the soothing piece on the
emotion side.
Other times you might need todo something, you might need to
make sense of something, youmight need to employ that logic
and then it'll vary based on thesituation as well.
Charles (12:17):
If I'm in a stressful situation, I feel better by okay
.
How can I bring some order andsome logic to this and that will
make me feel more confidentthat I can predict what's going
to happen next, where I've knownsome women where I wouldn't say
the opposite is true, butdefinitely the okay.
How let me understand theemotional dynamics and the
connections that that are inthese people-centered
(12:38):
connections and that will makeme feel more comfortable in this
situation.
Dan (12:42):
So what I will say is that I think, typically in our
society, that it's been moreaccepted for women to express
their emotions outwardly andwith other people than it has
for men, and so I think, basedon that it's, it might appear
that women typically are moreemotional than men are Right,
(13:07):
but that's only because that'swhat we're seeing, because
that's what's been sociallyacceptable.
Charles (13:11):
Yeah, and I would say and I would even go so far as to
say the opposite where it'smore socially acceptable for
women to come to a situationwith their emotions is more
smiled upon than women saying,okay, we need to look at this,
we need to look at this logic,hold on.
(13:31):
That makes me uncomfortable tohear a woman say that, yeah, I
think so much of this is really.
We've got these cultural modesof operating that we're just all
so used to that we're alsoinvested in keeping them going,
whether in a given situation,whether they're actually true or
not.
And so that's where, again, theidea that men are logical and
women are emotional when itcomes to any high stakes
(13:54):
situation, it feels like, yeah,there's the men in the situation
who want to remain in controlof the situation have a very
good reason to maintain thatdichotomy of men are the logical
ones, women are the emotionalones.
If I want you to continueletting me be in charge and not
(14:14):
have some woman usurp myauthority, then there's a pretty
good argument for me to say hey, and here's why men are more
logical than women vis-a-vis, Ialso get to stay in charge again
.
I.
Dan (14:25):
I think there's some of course there's yeah, there's
elements of that.
I go for sure.
Charles (14:29):
But again, in the guys that I see most invested in that
narrative, it doesn't take alot of pushing and prodding for
them to get real emotional, realfast.
Dan (14:38):
Yeah, I think you know, whereas I've seen, I've seen
women who actually do handle, doemploy logic when things are
stressful.
I've seen that happen naturally, and I think it's just more
about the kind of training thatyou've had and how often.
I think a lot of times it's moresocially acceptable for men to
(14:58):
push their emotions aside andthen focus on the logical stuff,
and that's just because that'swhat we've been doing for so
long.
It doesn't mean we're notfeeling those emotions.
It's just that's just what we'vebeen trained and are used to
doing, whereas women it might bemore.
So I'm going to then address theemotions in a different way and
(15:19):
not push them aside, so I'mgoing to let them.
I'm going to deal with theemotions in a different way.
So I think again, andeverything I think really exists
on a continuum look, the beststrategy is really try to
evaluate every situationindividually for what it is, and
that means also evaluating thatperson, and what kind of.
(15:39):
If you're evaluating somebodyto be a partner or a girlfriend
for you, or somebody that you'regoing to date, look and see the
way they handle things anddon't just go in with these
assumptions that they might bethis or might be that.
Look for real world evidence, alot of those situations where
(16:01):
you need to see how that personreacts in a stressful situation,
or or just even need to employa lot more logic than for a home
buying decision or a car buyingdecision.
You might not run into thatearly on in the relationship and
it's hard to figure out yes,it's very hard to figure out
that.
Charles (16:18):
That brings us into what.
What has been encouraged anddiscouraged based on your gender
.
He also mentioned some of themood disorders or mental illness
challenges that women have tostruggle with, and again this
has beaten that myth of howcomplicated women are, and I
looked it up and it said thestat I saw was that women are
three times more likely tosuffer from mental health issues
(16:41):
.
But my initial reaction to thatis are they three times more
likely to have the issue or arethey three times more likely to
be diagnosed?
That big difference.
Yes, there's a huge difference.
Because if, if men have moresocially acceptable options for
dealing with their mental healthchallenges that are not that do
(17:03):
not include going to aprofessional and getting
diagnosed, I could see why thatwould maybe skew the numbers.
Because, sure, and look, man, Ilook at my own group of friends
and associates from work and itseems like the women are much
more likely to be gettingtreatment.
For, you know, seeing atherapist, seeing a counselor,
where, yeah, the guys that arenot, yeah I, you can look at
(17:28):
them and say pretty easily oh,you've got some stuff you
probably need to talk tosomebody about, but they're just
less, so much less likely toactually do it.
So when I see those statistics,I wonder, okay, where is this
coming from?
And, yeah, are we drawing theappropriate distinction between
suffering from versus beingdiagnosed with?
Yeah, and I would say we'reprobably not, because, again,
(17:48):
guys can learn how to hide theirissues in socially acceptable
ways and feel the pressure to doso.
And so you know are.
Are women inherently morelikely to experience these
problems or are they just morelikely to get help for these
problems?
Dan (18:03):
Yeah, I would say it's more likely to get help because
they're just used to beingfeeling comfortable
communicating about it, guysaren't.
Charles (18:10):
Exactly, and so I would say anecdotally it seems like a
pretty even split betweenpeople who have mental health
challenges and people who don't.
Dan (18:18):
And part of that too is, I think, coming from a background
of where men are not supposed tobe perceived as weak in any way
, and that plays into this aswell.
No-transcript it it.
(18:54):
I can see why guys a lot oftimes resist going, and the same
thing even going to a doctor,nevermind a therapist right Like
for a medical doctor.
Same same concept applies, Ithink, here.
Charles (19:04):
Yeah, and I would love it if our society could change
the narrative a little bit too.
And even if you still want toquote unquote, target men with
this, fine, it's like I wouldrather live in a society that
says men should not be weak thana society that says men should
not look weak.
Dan (19:19):
Yes.
Charles (19:20):
That's great, I'm okay.
I'm okay to say men should notbe weak.
I'm fine with that, whetherthat's emotionally, physically,
whatever, we want to encouragemen to be strong emotionally,
strong physically, and thatmeans doing something about the
weak.
Doing something about it, notengaging it.
Let's build multi-million,billion-dollar industries on how
to help men not look weak.
Let's instead focus on helpingmen not be weak.
(19:41):
Yeah, because right now, whenyou look at the big podcast big
industries, big clothing, it'sall.
What can we do to help mendress up to not look weak
instead of what can we do tohelp men not be weak?
Because man, there's no moredangerous of a man than a man
who looks strong but is actuallyweak.
That guy is dangerous to hiswork family, his home family.
(20:05):
He's dangerous to everybody.
The guy who is invested soheavily in not looking weak are
the worst guys you can spendyour time around and I get the
impulse, though.
I get how good it feels to notlook weak and it's pretty easy.
All you have to do is changethe things you say and the way
you dress and you can be a guywho looks strong.
But to actually be a guy who isstrong, that takes a lot more
(20:26):
work and there's not as muchmoney to be made of those guys.
Yeah, let's, let's talk alittle bit more about what it is
, what it is that women actuallywant and why they're not
complicated.
Glover makes a good point thatwhen a woman is behaving in a
way that doesn't seem to makesense to you, it's probably
because she feels lacking insecurity and stability.
(20:50):
And so if you can acknowledgethat and say, okay, if she's
acting out in a way that doesn'tseem to make sense based on who
she's been previously and whatshe has expressed is important
to her, then yeah, there's agood indication that what's
going on is she doesn't feelsafe or secure or stable.
And I should probably, if I'mgoing to be in a relationship
(21:11):
with her, I should figure outwhat it is that she needs and
what my role is in helping herfind those things.
And I think a generalizationthat women are security-seeking
creatures is pretty fair.
It's not going to be the casefor all of them, but I think,
certainly, if you want to adoptthe mindset of, okay, if she's
behaving in a way that doesn'tmake sense to me, then she
(21:32):
probably isn't feeling the levelof security that she needs.
So I'm going to, I'm going tofigure out what role I can play.
Dan (21:37):
I think men also seek security and trustworthiness as
well, just maybe in a little bitof a different way at times,
and you know how critical thatis to any type of relationship,
whether it's a friendship or aromantic relationship,
father-child relationship.
All of that needs to really bebased on do you trust this other
person?
And when that is called intoquestion based on behavior or
(22:01):
situations, that's when thingsget weaker.
Charles (22:05):
Yeah, and this is where the covert contracts that he
talked about in no more, mr Niceguy, comes in.
If you see the woman in yourlife or yeah, we'll focus on the
woman in your life behaving ina way that you think is
inconsistent with what you cometo expect from her or what she
says she wants, the worst thingyou can do is really try to
(22:28):
manipulate her into feeling oracting quote unquote better, oh,
I'll just.
I'll.
I'll take time away from work,I'll drop hanging out with my
friends, I'll do.
I'll start turning my back onmy hobbies and neglecting those
so that I can spend more timewith her and soothe her so that
she feels better.
No, what you can do is ask herwhat she needs, believe what she
(22:50):
tells you at face value, andthen really balance between
giving her the space she needsto feel her feelings and be as
strong as you can emotionallywhen you're in her presence, and
that will ramp up her abilityto feel security in the
situation that she's in.
Be trustworthy, like we learnedfrom the last book, do what
you're going to, what you sayyou're going to do, and be who
(23:12):
you say you are, and that can doa lot to alleviate those
feelings that she might beexperiencing as a lack of
security.
Dan (23:19):
Yeah, and a lot of that does get conveyed in ways that
you may not be aware of, whichis if you're looking at your
phone, when she's telling yousomething, you aren't being
present, even though you mightphysically be in the same room,
and then you could come back inthe argument when she says, hey,
you're never present.
Oh, we spent an hour together.
You didn't spend an hourtogether, you spent an hour with
your phone and she spent anhour talking to you, and so
(23:39):
there's a big difference interms of that quality time and,
in order to create that sense ofsecurity and that connection,
that means paying attention,being there.
Yeah, absolutely, and, ifanything, it's almost probably
worse that you're there lookingat the phone rather than if you
weren't there at all right, youknow, love language is quality
time and oh yeah on top of that.
Charles (23:59):
But even if it's not your specific love language.
Dan (24:02):
Regardless.
Put the shoe on the other footif you wanted to, if she was
looking at her phone while youwere telling her something and
something that you thought wasespecially something important
to you, and even if it wasn'timportant to you, just the basic
level of respect, and now it'sjust.
That's going to spiral, likeour primitive brain is going to
now also play into that, andthey're going to spiral into
thinking, oh my god, what wassomething?
Probably worse than oh, he wasjust doing really well on his
(24:26):
game on his phone.
It was it, it could besomething.
Oh my God, who's he talking to?
Right, and you don't know.
Now, that has to be, that hasto be dealt with, those
heightened emotions, and so itreally it doesn't take much
other than paying attention,being present and really making
an effort.
Charles (24:44):
Yeah, I, it really is.
Almost.
It's worse to give somebody aweak version of what they need
than to not give it to them atall.
And Because you're basicallysaying this is all you get from
me or this is like all yourworth, I see where he's going
(25:05):
with this and I agree with himbecause the idea that women are
more willing to talk aboutrelationships and more willing
to investigate the dynamics ofrelationships, but that doesn't
necessarily make them better atrelationships.
Women do have an advantage overmen in getting better
relationships in that asking forhelp or looking for resources
(25:28):
to be better at relationships isnot as stigmatized for women as
it is for men.
Yeah, just sitting on the couchwatching Oprah or Dr Phil isn't
going to inherently make youbetter at relationships, but it
does put you in the orbit ofexperts in a way that men don't
typically spend their time.
I mean not a.
You pick out a 10 randomepisodes of the Joe Rogan
(25:51):
podcast.
Not very many of those 10, ifany, are going to be some
relationship expert who's onthere trying to talk about how
you can be better atrelationships.
It shouldn't be more abouttaking cold showers and training
for a hundred mile run.
And did Bigfoot assassinateJohn F Kennedy?
It's not going to be a lot ofin male spaces.
(26:12):
There's not a lot of peopletalking about relationships.
Dan (26:14):
Yeah.
Charles (26:15):
And so I think the barrier to entry for women when
they decide, hey, I do want tolearn more about relationships,
is quite a bit lower than it isfor men.
Dan (26:25):
And they more support to keep going in that pursuit of
knowledge.
Charles (26:30):
Yes, all the guys I hang out with on a fairly
regular basis.
We all enjoy talking aboutrelationships, but I understand
that most men's social circlesare not like that.
Yeah and yeah, I don't thinkjust because women are willing
to talk about it does notnecessarily mean it's going to
translate into the way theybehave in relationships.
But it could.
And guys who never seek outthat information, never talk
(26:54):
about it and never, you know,read books or listen to books
about it, I feel like theirability to improve is going to
be a little bit lower than awoman who does yeah put in the
relationship.
Yeah, I would kind of disagreewith Glover on this point.
I do too.
Yeah, he says that just becauseyou are obsessed with baseball
(27:15):
stats doesn't make you good athitting a major league curveball
Like.
Dan (27:19):
Okay, that's true, but he just talked about the
visualization, though I remembera couple a little bit right, so
it's just okay.
You're visualizing now, yeah,maybe hitting that ball over and
over again, and that'sliterally what you're doing.
You're picturing things asyou're reading them, listening
to them and the more you'reexposing yourself to them.
Yes, all right, you might notbe good as somebody who is like
(27:39):
a professional therapist in thatarea, but if you are constantly
bombarding yourself in yourbrain with information and
concepts and you're visualizingthings and you're hearing and
watching examples of peopledoing conflict resolution and
communicating, yeah, you'regonna be better than somebody
who watches baseball yes, Iwould put some money on that.
Charles (27:59):
Yeah, because part of it is okay, let's.
I don't think reading a book orlistening to a podcast about
relationships is not the same,and expecting that to make you
better at relationships is notthe same as going over baseball
stats making you better at beinga hitter.
But if you are going on youtubeand watching videos by hitting
(28:21):
coaches talking non-stop abouthow to be a better hitter, that
probably will have some positiveimpact on your ability to hit a
because it's more apples yeah,yeah, that's a better analogyter
that probably will have somepositive impact on your ability
to hit a because it's moreapples to apples.
Dan (28:30):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a better analogy thanthan just looking at stats.
So there'll be, there'll be,like somebody doing scientific
research and going oh, women'sbrains are more apt to do this
than that.
That's stats.
That's not actually watching,which is not what they do.
They're engaged in Exactly thethings like you said the videos
and the culture aroundrelationships.
Charles (28:50):
Yeah, that's not in that.
He does say watching Oprah,watching Dr Phil and most books
about relationships, oprahalthough Oprah had some pretty
smart people on there givingpractical advice, I don't know
that Dr Phil does.
Dr Phil is more.
Dan (29:05):
He had some basic principles that he even mentions
.
Is how's that working out foryou?
Dr Phil is more, but he hadsome basic principles that he
even mentions.
Is how's that working out foryou?
And that is a quick question toask yourself.
Fantastic question to ask tobreak your patterns and to make
you aware of.
Oh wait a minute, I'm notgetting what I say I want.
Charles (29:19):
Yeah, Watching an episode of Dr Phil where I mean
I don't need much more than thatfrom him, but I think that was
a pretty powerful question.
Yeah, watching an episode of hisshow where he basically gets
some drill instructor to yell ata kid who's not behaving, that
probably does not help out yourrelationships very much.
But yeah, as asking people youknow who, yeah, a lot of the
guests he's going to have on hisshow and I don't watch his show
.
I've never really watched hisshow but I've seen clips of it
(29:41):
where it's pretty extremebehavior and basically just a
lot of entertainment yeah,exactly, exactly.
No, not the same.
As same as Oprah Winfrey havingBrene Brown on her show and
talking about shame for an hour.
I think, yeah, you willprobably take away some stuff
from this.
It's going to make you a betterperson, even if it's just
interacting with your ownfeelings.
Yeah, yeah, I would see theboat on this one.
I think so.
(30:01):
I think so, and I also don'twant him devaluing the use of
books and podcasts and even TVshows in learning more about
relationships and look that oldsaying of basically you are the
average of the five people thatyou surround yourself with.
Dan (30:14):
You know what If you are listening to and I just went
through this with my sister,actually, the other day was she
said I don't really surroundmyself with anybody who's better
than me.
I'm like, wait a minute.
You listen to podcasts.
You listen to books, audiobooks, from personal development
stuff.
Those are your mentors.
Even though you are notphysically talking to them in
person, you are still hearingthe best of their information
(30:36):
and it's even better than if youwere friends with them.
So you're sitting at a bar withBrene Brown.
You're not going to be talkingabout shame the whole time.
Right, you can be.
Oh, these nachos were reallygood.
That's the thing.
It's like you're getting thebest of them consolidated if
you're listening to these booksand these podcasts.
I count that as people you'resurrounding yourself with.
Charles (30:54):
Yeah, I think that's a fair way of looking at it for
sure, especially if you'rereally immersed in to consuming
everything that they're puttingout, which I do get that way
with some influencers andexperts sometimes, where it's
man, something they said reallyresonated with me, or I heard
them on an interview and now I'mgoing to go out and get every
book, I'm going to listen toevery podcast episode and just
yeah, that I definitely spendmore time with some of those
(31:17):
public intellectuals and expertsthan I do with a lot of friends
that I don't see.
Dan (31:21):
And, that being said, you're going to be, then, maybe
not an average, but you willdefinitely raise your level of
information and competency incertain areas.
Charles (31:30):
All right, let's hit the rest of these myths as
quickly as we can Rapid fire.
Number four is women expectperfection from men.
That's silly.
Nobody wants to be around aperfect person.
It's exhausting and it makesyou feel bad about yourself.
So that's true for evenbeautiful, successful women are
not looking for guys that areperfect.
Dan (31:47):
And put the shoe on the other foot.
If you were looking for theperfect woman, you'd feel a
little insecure about the wholetime that you're with that
person.
So she's not going to belooking for the perfect guy
either, because that's not goingto make her feel great about
herself either.
Correct, if you could do nowrong, which is completely.
Perfection doesn't exist.
Charles (32:02):
All we may say that, yeah, what?
And if we say we're looking forthe perfect partner, we're
looking for the perfect partnerfor us.
We're not looking for one who'sperfect all the time by any
means.
Myth number five friends tolovers.
The idea of just trying to getin with a gal and being her
friend, because then eventuallymaybe you two will kick it off
or it'll light needle strike andyou'll go from being friends to
(32:24):
being romantic partners.
Now, I've done this before.
I've gone from being somebody'sfriend to being somebody's
boyfriend.
But in my experience it neverworks when you go into the
friendship with that intention.
If you go into the friendshipto be friends with somebody,
then yes, something may springup from that eventually.
But the problem is, if you gointo the friendship thinking I
(32:47):
really like to be her boyfriend,so maybe if I become her friend
first, that'll happen.
It usually doesn't because,number one, you get completely
obsessed with that friendshipthat you have with her at the
expense of dating and going outwith girls in a romantic
scenario, which is not good,because you're investing all
(33:08):
your time and your effort intothis friendship when friendship
isn't what you're actually after, and so you also take practice
time away from engaging in otherrelationships.
Dan (33:21):
And again put the shoe on the other foot.
So now?
So a girl, let's say, wants tobe your friend and is acting as
a friend for you for months oryears, and then all of a sudden
or wants to change thefoundation that they've built
and your interpretation of whatyour relationship is.
Again, that's a, it's aviolation of your trust and the
(33:43):
security that you've built, andso that's never really going to
go well.
Charles (33:48):
Yeah and exactly built, and so that's never really
gonna go well, yeah and exactly.
And it is inherently deceptiveto treat someone as a friend
when you find them attractiveand you're attracted to them and
you want to relate, like theprevious partner, that we were
friends first, and one thing Iwould see guys do is, even
though we were friends, we werestill flirty.
(34:10):
We weren't looking for arelationship from each other,
but we were flirty with eachother and I didn't behave as if
every time we hang out, I'mgoing to take my genitals and
lock in a safe and not act likea man around her.
I acted like a man around herand I was not dishonest about
the fact that she was anattractive, interesting person
to be around.
I just wasn't looking for arelationship from her.
(34:30):
She wasn't looking for one forme.
So we were just.
We were real men and real.
We were a real man and a realwoman who were in a friendship
with each other.
And so I didn't have I didn'tfeel like I had to hide any
parts of myself where, when Isee guys crushing on a girl and
be in in her friend zone, a bigpart of the time is they're
hiding who they actually are,and that's a vibe that you can't
(34:50):
choose not to put that off.
Dan (34:51):
And here's the thing I I don't know of many women who
don't really know what youreally want Exactly.
If you are in that position, Idon't think you're fooling
anybody.
It's almost like they have yeah.
Charles (35:02):
It's like we're both going to have a covert contract
with each other where we, whereI pretend I don't see what you
really want and I pretend not tobe what, not to be after what I
actually am after, and it'sjust science.
Good point.
What a, what a vibe killer thatis.
We're both of youers.
You've got this unspokenagreement of I won't acknowledge
that you want me and I won'tacknowledge that I don't want
you in this way, and we'll justbe friends, we'll hang out,
(35:24):
we'll be social, social.
But there's this other thinggoing on that we're both going
to pretend, isn't there?
Dan (35:28):
here's the thing is.
Even so, let's say best casescenario you are able to fool
that other person and theyreally think you're just a
friend, right, and then all of asudden you're like oh, one day
the reveal comes right and it'slike holy shit.
You've been lying to me for howmany months or years?
What else could you potentiallylie to me about or be deceptive
about?
Charles (35:46):
I thought you found me valuable, are you?
I thought you found me valuableas a friend, and now it turns
out you never really did oh,that's a good point too.
Dan (35:53):
Yeah, it's.
Oh, now my self-worth.
Is you really wanted justsomething else from me?
Correct and all the otherthings and I thought you're
willing to tirade me as a friendto to get me as a girlfriend
yeah, that's I don't know ifthat just comes from a lot of
the rom-coms that we watchedgrowing up that that friend to
the girl realizes oh my God,this guy.
Charles (36:14):
Or he was there for me all along.
Yeah, I've never seen it happenin real life where the guy
accepted a friendship becausethat's all he could get and then
she eventually realized aftershe's been heartbroken from all
the other people that oh,realize after she's been
heartbroken from all the otherpeople that, oh yeah.
Think about the most strikingexamples, probably Ross and
(36:35):
Rachel, where the first one ortwo seasons of Friends where he
was absolutely in love with herand he would pretend that he
wasn't, and then in that oneepisode she sees the video of
him putting on his tuxedo totake her to prom because she got
stood up by her prom date.
And then, oh, that's such acompassionate thing, loving
thing for him to do.
Now, boom, all of a sudden I'min love with him right now.
It doesn't work that wayunfortunately or no, I'm okay.
(36:58):
Let me say, fortunately itdoesn't work that way.
Well, I think it the way thatit works.
Let's see it and you understandit.
It's like no, that the way itactually works is better than
the way that no, but, but a lotof times but, but.
Dan (37:09):
but growing up as a, you know, a teenage boy, in that, oh
, you could do one thing andlike stand outside her, her, her
house, with the radio over yourhead and and all of a sudden
it's going to change everythingand that's.
That's a fantasy or a dreamthat we were basically
programmed.
Same thing with, I think, a lotof the Disney princess lives
(37:29):
and stuff like that for girls,and that's why I say it's
unfortunate, because it's oh.
I've been spending my time,wasting my time thinking that
this is what the world is likeExactly and this is how the
world operates, and now, holyshit, I've got to figure
something else out.
Yeah, oh, my God, I've beenwrong for how many years.
Yeah, oh that's scary.
Charles (37:49):
The surest path to success with dating is you being
open and honest about yourintentions and what you want and
getting to rejection as quicklyas you can.
That's the way that it works.
Let's see the.
Those are the.
That's the last of the myths.
But the last part of thischapter is something you and I
repeat all the time Icing, notcake.
A good woman in your lifeshould be the icing on the cake
(38:14):
and not the cake itself.
Yeah, and I have found the mostattention I've gotten from
women in my life has been once Igot to the age where I decided
to focus on myself, my career,my interests, my hobbies, the
traveling I like to do thehiking, I like to do the podcast
you and I have.
The more time I spend investingin the things that I need to
(38:37):
make my life what I want it tobe, the more I get attention
from women who look in thatguy's got some stuff going on.
That's pretty exciting.
I'd like to be around that, ora part of that, or a part of
that.
Dan (38:54):
Yeah, because then you've got inherent value to give, and
then it's not the fluffy icingpiece that is created based on
the relationship that hasn'teven been built yet.
So yeah, bake that cake.
Charles (39:04):
And the opposite should be true too.
You should look for a partnerwho's got their own cake, right,
guys?
You guys provide icing for eachother.
That is complimentary.
And settle down.
Dan, you provide icing, youricing tastes good on her cake
and her icing tastes good onyour cake.
I love me some frosting.
(39:25):
I usually like if work's havinga birthday party, I always pick
the pieces with the leastamount of.
Oh really, I see, yeah, I don't.
I like the.
Dan (39:34):
I'm more of a cake guy depends on the cake and depends
on the icing.
So if it's a cream cheese icingI'll look on a carrot cake.
Yeah, load that up.
Charles (39:41):
I like that, but just like a plain vanilla icing
whatever with a foamy kind oficing that you did on like
there's your store sheet cakes.
I don't like that.
I'll take a piece from themiddle that has, okay, not all
that much icing, but yeah, likethe big, like candy flowered,
icing, like they put on thecorners of.
Dan (39:57):
Like that I'm not.
Charles (39:57):
Yeah, I like that, yeah all right, I think we are good
to stop there, dan.
Our next chapter is going to bereasons not to pursue hot women
.
I don't like the title of thischapter either, because once you
get into the chapter, he's nottalking about what most people I
would say call hot women.
He's talking about vain women.
Reasons not to pursue vainwomen Correct, and that I agree
(40:19):
with.
A million percent.
Hot women, again, as weconventionally discuss the term
hot, I like.
I date hot girls and I like it.
It's vain women that I have notime for.
Dan (40:29):
And I think people you know remember one person's opinion
of what is hot is different thananother's.
Charles (40:35):
There are some, there's some, I think, legitimately
objective of ways that we allmatch up on it, but some ways we
don't Sure but right,absolutely.
Dan (40:42):
Keep that in mind too.
Just, you're not going to beattractive to every woman,
you're not going to find everywoman attractive to the same
thing, or to what degree.
Charles (40:49):
Yeah, and I've talked about, I think, on the show
before.
I don't really buy into theconcept of leagues oh, she's out
of my league, I'm out of herleague.
There are no leagues, there are.
People have preferences.
They have things like I don'tbelieve that any woman is too
good or too attractive for me todate.
She just might have preferencesthat don't match up with who I
am, and that's fine.
(41:10):
But the idea of oh, she's toohot to date me, I don't buy it,
I don't look into it.
Dan (41:15):
Our brain likes to make shortcuts to save energy, and
just be aware of that and try toavoid making those shortcuts.
Charles (41:22):
Yeah, that's great advice.
All right, we'll stop there fortoday and we'll do chapters
eight and nine when I see younext week.
Sounds good, sir.
Thanks, Dan.
Hey, thanks so much forlistening to the entire episode.
We appreciate it.
Again, please check out ourwebsite mindfullymasculinecom
for full audio and videoepisodes, as well as anything
(41:42):
else that we decide to put there.
Thanks, and talk to you nexttime.
I would say spend your time not being a piece of crap
and understanding why you're nota piece of crap.
Sage advice Instead of figuringout how you can trick the world
Right.
Really, the people that win injust about every area of life
are the people whose subjectiveview of the world most closely
matches up to what the worldobjectively is, which is up to
(00:23):
what the world objectively is,and so if you can look at
yourself and other people andthe world around you in a way
that's as close to the way thatit really is, instead of the
biased way that you taughtyourself to think that it is,
you'll have the best outcomes.
Welcome back to the MindfullyMasculine Podcast.
This is Charles.
In this episode, dan and I willcontinue to discuss dating
essentials for men by Dr RobertGlover, and we're going to focus
(00:45):
on Chapter 7, the name of whichis Use the Secret Women Don't
Want you to Know, to yourAdvantage, which Dan and I both
find a little clickbaity, maybecringey, but we'll discuss what
Dr Glover gets into.
Some of those topics willinclude common myths about women
, emotional versus logicalthinking and the accompanying
(01:08):
gender stereotypes, mentalhealth and gender differences,
authenticity in dating andrelationships, security and
stability in romanticrelationships, the icing not
cake philosophy, media influenceand unrealistic romantic
expectations and other topics.
Please check out our websitemindfullymasculinecom to find
(01:31):
our audio episodes, videoepisodes and anything else we
feel like sharing.
Thanks and enjoy.
Dan (01:38):
Hey Charles, How's it going ?
Charles (01:39):
Still going.
Great, Dan Thanks.
How are you doing?
I am doing great.
One of the first sections ofChapter 7, which we're about to
cover, dr glover's editor made aword plural by adding an
apostrophe s instead of just ans, and so let's talk about that
for an hour, because I thatabsolutely.
I fixate on that.
Dan (01:57):
When people do that, apostrophes do not make plurals,
they make possessives, dan,yeah, listen, if it's somebody
writing something like an emailor a text, whatever, not a big
deal, but if you're publishingit, that's a little bit of a
faux pas in my book.
Charles (02:10):
The first subsection in this chapter is Myths About
Women.
M-y-t-h apostrophe.
S, yes, okay, I didn't know amyth, something yeah, it can't,
but yeah, we yeah.
Well, other than our attentionat this point.
It's actually oh, it drives meit really.
Grammatically, it is one of mybiggest pet peeves.
(02:31):
Yeah, I see it a lot with likedays of the week, like how you
should spend your sundays withan apostrophe s anyway.
So let's talk about some ofthese myths about women, and
again the chapter title is Usethe Secret Women Don't Want you
to Know to your Advantage.
Dan (02:50):
They're better at grammar.
Charles (02:51):
Is that the first secret?
Often they are.
I do find that, yeah, typicallywritten communication with
women is usually better thanwritten communication with men.
Fair enough, I can't disagreewith that.
Okay, so myth number one isthat women are inherently
superior to men.
I don't know anybody thatbelieves this or would say that,
so I don't know how widespreadof a myth it is.
(03:12):
I guess his position is thatbad daters and inexperienced
daters and men who are notconfident in dating they may
live as if women are superior tomen, but I don't know anybody
that is such a blanket statement.
Dan (03:27):
In what ways are they superior?
So that's the thing is yeah, Ithink there's a lot of other
things you need to unpack if youare walking around with that
type of real general type offeeling, because everybody's
different, right, so you can'tsay one woman might be better
than you at one thing and youmight be better than another.
Dude, come on, yeah, I thinkthat's yeah.
I would say I don't know whatthat would be.
(03:49):
Necessarily Could be some sortof trauma as a child or some
sort of really bad experiencesthat make you feel like women
are inherently superior than men.
There's going to be asignificant reason why you're
thinking that.
Yeah, I would say so too.
Charles (04:02):
There's going to be a significant reason why you're
thinking that, yeah, I would sayso too, and without follow-up,
like you said, superior in whatway and superior in what part of
life.
And yeah, I would say, if youare walking around, I think
that's a self-limiting belief,but I would go as far to say the
opposite Women are inherentlyinferior to men.
If you're walking around withthat one bouncing around in your
(04:24):
head, that's a self-limitingbelief too, and both of those
are going to severely crippleyour ability to engage in
fulfilling relationships.
Dan (04:33):
Yeah, generalizing in general is just not a great idea
right now.
But again, like you said, thatkind of goes back to our
self-limiting beliefs and ourability to feel like we've got
the world figured out.
Charles (04:45):
It's real easy to do that when you've got these
really big blanketgeneralizations, exactly, yeah,
and, but it's not going to getyou where you at least say you
want to go.
It's not going to help to thinkthat all women are great and
all men are trash, or all menare great and all women are any
of those?
Yeah, they're a big blind spotin your game.
Dan (05:04):
And if that's what you feel like.
What are you supposed to doabout it?
If that's a real belief, thenit sounds to me also the
secondary, the corollary of thatis there's nothing you can do
about it.
That's just the way it is.
At that point, it's almost likeyou're in this hopeless
position so you're just going togo throughout life looking for
a way to be subservient to awoman.
(05:25):
Is that like your approach?
Charles (05:26):
then yeah, or, and I would say it can even go in the
opposite direction, where, okay,if I believe that all women are
superior to men, therefore theonly men that can have women are
the ones who are really good attricking them, and it to you
know into not into thinking thatthey're better.
The only way I can get a womanis to trick her into thinking
(05:47):
that I'm not a piece of crap.
So, therefore, I'm going tospend my time trying to hone the
skills and the techniques ofthe tricks for getting to act
like I'm worth more than Iactually am.
I would say spend your time notbeing a piece of crap and
understanding why you're not apiece of crap.
Sage advice Instead of figuringout how you can trick the world
(06:10):
.
Right, really, the people thatwin in just about every area of
life are the people whosesubjective view of the world
most closely matches up to whatthe world objectively is, and so
if you can look at yourself andother people and the world
around you in a way that's asclose to the way that it really
is, instead of the biased waythat you taught yourself to
(06:32):
think that it is, you'll havethe best outcomes.
Yeah, and really the only wayyou can do that is by practicing
engaging with the world asoften as you can, and also be
willing to let go of what you'reconvinced is the way things are
and look for evidence to say Imight have this wrong.
I might need to.
I might need to edit the waythat I see the world and get it
(06:56):
to more lineup with the way theworld actually is.
Okay, the next myth myth numbertwo women are complicated.
Here's the deal People arecomplicated and also quite
simple, and you need to be ableto hold both of those opinions
in your head at the same time ina way that makes sense.
Because, yeah, we talked aboutit, I think, with the very last
book.
(07:16):
We covered the Man's Guide toWomen.
There's not some deep mysteryto how women work or how they
choose to operate or thedecisions they make.
That is just completelyunfathomable to men and we can
never.
They're just so complicatedthat we can never figure out.
No number one.
You could ask them and assumethat, given some thought and
(07:38):
some self-examination, they cangive you answers that are
valuable and that make sense andthat are true which I've found
to be the Most women that if yougo to the effort of asking a
woman what makes her tick andwhat is she interested in and
what does she prioritize.
Number one, she'll appreciateyou asking and number two, in my
experience, she'll give somepretty deep thought to trying to
give you an accurate answer.
(07:59):
Now again, we don't all haveourselves figured out.
At some level we're going to dothings and behave in ways that
we don't even understand, and Ithink that's natural and normal
to understand.
That's the way people work.
But when you ask somebody likehey, I want to connect to you
and understand you more deeply,most people, and women
especially, will find that agood use of their time to try to
(08:21):
come up with a good answer foryou their time to try to come up
with a good answer for you.
So, yeah, the idea that womenare chaotic and mysterious and
just they're so complicated thatyou can't figure them out, it's
just a.
It's a lazy way out to to stopyou from having to figure it out
.
One one thing I'd said beforeonline to people is why is it
(08:42):
that the same guy who complainsabout how complicated and hard
to understand women are, if youask them, what was the last
nonfiction book you've read thatwas written by a woman.
In many cases they will say, oh, I've never read a nonfiction
book written by a woman.
Dan (08:58):
That's interesting.
Charles (08:59):
Yeah.
Dan (08:59):
Yeah, or a nonfiction book?
Oh, almost Right, that's too.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's the thing too.
Is you got to?
I think the key here isrealizing that the tool set that
you have available to you andthat you're using may not be the
right ones to help youunderstand what a woman goes
through and what they, what theydeal with and what they think
(09:19):
about and how they behave.
So that's the thing is, if youare closed minded and not
willing to consider other ideasand listen, read and do some
research on it and build yourskillset.
Yeah, a car is complicated toeverybody.
It's not a mechanic Exactly.
Yeah, a mechanic has studiedsome cars before, so to him it
might, or her it might not be abig deal, and it's no different.
Charles (09:43):
You're right, that's absolutely true.
Yeah, I love the quote thateverything is a conspiracy
theory when you understand hownothing works.
Because, yeah, if you're tryingto get some insight into how
something operates but you don'tknow anything about it, then
all you can really do is oh,there's an earthquake and a
flood, it must be the sun, godmust be angry.
For some reason.
(10:03):
You really revert back intobeing a caveman, exactly.
So here's something he saysthat I'd like to get your take
on.
In general, women have much moreaccess to the right hemisphere
of their brains than most men do.
Okay, that sounds reasonable.
The right side is the emotionalside of the brain.
Therefore, women's thinking andlogic tends to be influenced
more by feelings than a man'sdoes.
(10:24):
Okay, I don't know if I agreewith that.
That seems like a bit of a leapto me, and the idea that,
speaking again in general terms,men are more logical and women
are more emotional.
That doesn't seem to play outthat way in my own experience.
Okay, and I thought about thisquite a bit on the long drive
(10:44):
over this morning.
Here's how I'm going to say it.
You remember Peanuts, thePeanuts characters, snoopy,
charlie Brown and all that?
Linus had this blanket that hewould carry around with him for
security.
Even though he was a little tooold to, by most standards, to
be walking around with a blanket, he did.
What I would say is that notthat men are more logical and
(11:07):
women are more emotional, but Iwould say that, men, we use
logic and order as our securityblanket more frequently than
women do.
Okay, and women use connectionand emotion as their security
blanket more often than men do.
But to say that men areinherently more logical,
(11:28):
rational, reasonable and womenare more chaotic, emotional than
men, it just doesn't play truefor me, because I and often the
most men, the men who spend themost time insisting on how
logical they are, seem to be themost emotional men that I've
ever met.
Dan (11:42):
That's interesting.
Yeah, yeah I, I listen.
I think everything exists on acontinuum right and so I don't
know if you can say one istypically more than another.
I think you need to really lookat yourself and figure out hey,
how do I like to typically dealwith situations?
How do I soothe myself?
Yeah, yes, exactly, and itcould be you might need more of
(12:03):
the the belly breathing, and thefor the soothing piece on the
emotion side.
Other times you might need todo something, you might need to
make sense of something, youmight need to employ that logic
and then it'll vary based on thesituation as well.
Charles (12:17):
If I'm in a stressful situation, I feel better by okay
.
How can I bring some order andsome logic to this and that will
make me feel more confidentthat I can predict what's going
to happen next, where I've knownsome women where I wouldn't say
the opposite is true, butdefinitely the okay.
How let me understand theemotional dynamics and the
connections that that are inthese people-centered
(12:38):
connections and that will makeme feel more comfortable in this
situation.
Dan (12:42):
So what I will say is that I think, typically in our
society, that it's been moreaccepted for women to express
their emotions outwardly andwith other people than it has
for men, and so I think, basedon that it's, it might appear
that women typically are moreemotional than men are Right,
(13:07):
but that's only because that'swhat we're seeing, because
that's what's been sociallyacceptable.
Charles (13:11):
Yeah, and I would say and I would even go so far as to
say the opposite where it'smore socially acceptable for
women to come to a situationwith their emotions is more
smiled upon than women saying,okay, we need to look at this,
we need to look at this logic,hold on.
(13:31):
That makes me uncomfortable tohear a woman say that, yeah, I
think so much of this is really.
We've got these cultural modesof operating that we're just all
so used to that we're alsoinvested in keeping them going,
whether in a given situation,whether they're actually true or
not.
And so that's where, again, theidea that men are logical and
women are emotional when itcomes to any high stakes
(13:54):
situation, it feels like, yeah,there's the men in the situation
who want to remain in controlof the situation have a very
good reason to maintain thatdichotomy of men are the logical
ones, women are the emotionalones.
If I want you to continueletting me be in charge and not
(14:14):
have some woman usurp myauthority, then there's a pretty
good argument for me to say hey, and here's why men are more
logical than women vis-a-vis, Ialso get to stay in charge again
.
I.
Dan (14:25):
I think there's some of course there's yeah, there's
elements of that.
I go for sure.
Charles (14:29):
But again, in the guys that I see most invested in that
narrative, it doesn't take alot of pushing and prodding for
them to get real emotional, realfast.
Dan (14:38):
Yeah, I think you know, whereas I've seen, I've seen
women who actually do handle, doemploy logic when things are
stressful.
I've seen that happen naturally, and I think it's just more
about the kind of training thatyou've had and how often.
I think a lot of times it's moresocially acceptable for men to
(14:58):
push their emotions aside andthen focus on the logical stuff,
and that's just because that'swhat we've been doing for so
long.
It doesn't mean we're notfeeling those emotions.
It's just that's just what we'vebeen trained and are used to
doing, whereas women it might bemore.
So I'm going to then address theemotions in a different way and
(15:19):
not push them aside, so I'mgoing to let them.
I'm going to deal with theemotions in a different way.
So I think again, andeverything I think really exists
on a continuum look, the beststrategy is really try to
evaluate every situationindividually for what it is, and
that means also evaluating thatperson, and what kind of.
(15:39):
If you're evaluating somebodyto be a partner or a girlfriend
for you, or somebody that you'regoing to date, look and see the
way they handle things anddon't just go in with these
assumptions that they might bethis or might be that.
Look for real world evidence, alot of those situations where
(16:01):
you need to see how that personreacts in a stressful situation,
or or just even need to employa lot more logic than for a home
buying decision or a car buyingdecision.
You might not run into thatearly on in the relationship and
it's hard to figure out yes,it's very hard to figure out
that.
Charles (16:18):
That brings us into what.
What has been encouraged anddiscouraged based on your gender
.
He also mentioned some of themood disorders or mental illness
challenges that women have tostruggle with, and again this
has beaten that myth of howcomplicated women are, and I
looked it up and it said thestat I saw was that women are
three times more likely tosuffer from mental health issues
(16:41):
.
But my initial reaction to thatis are they three times more
likely to have the issue or arethey three times more likely to
be diagnosed?
That big difference.
Yes, there's a huge difference.
Because if, if men have moresocially acceptable options for
dealing with their mental healthchallenges that are not that do
(17:03):
not include going to aprofessional and getting
diagnosed, I could see why thatwould maybe skew the numbers.
Because, sure, and look, man, Ilook at my own group of friends
and associates from work and itseems like the women are much
more likely to be gettingtreatment.
For, you know, seeing atherapist, seeing a counselor,
where, yeah, the guys that arenot, yeah I, you can look at
(17:28):
them and say pretty easily oh,you've got some stuff you
probably need to talk tosomebody about, but they're just
less, so much less likely toactually do it.
So when I see those statistics,I wonder, okay, where is this
coming from?
And, yeah, are we drawing theappropriate distinction between
suffering from versus beingdiagnosed with?
Yeah, and I would say we'reprobably not, because, again,
(17:48):
guys can learn how to hide theirissues in socially acceptable
ways and feel the pressure to doso.
And so you know are.
Are women inherently morelikely to experience these
problems or are they just morelikely to get help for these
problems?
Dan (18:03):
Yeah, I would say it's more likely to get help because
they're just used to beingfeeling comfortable
communicating about it, guysaren't.
Charles (18:10):
Exactly, and so I would say anecdotally it seems like a
pretty even split betweenpeople who have mental health
challenges and people who don't.
Dan (18:18):
And part of that too is, I think, coming from a background
of where men are not supposed tobe perceived as weak in any way
, and that plays into this aswell.
No-transcript it it.
(18:54):
I can see why guys a lot oftimes resist going, and the same
thing even going to a doctor,nevermind a therapist right Like
for a medical doctor.
Same same concept applies, Ithink, here.
Charles (19:04):
Yeah, and I would love it if our society could change
the narrative a little bit too.
And even if you still want toquote unquote, target men with
this, fine, it's like I wouldrather live in a society that
says men should not be weak thana society that says men should
not look weak.
Dan (19:19):
Yes.
Charles (19:20):
That's great, I'm okay.
I'm okay to say men should notbe weak.
I'm fine with that, whetherthat's emotionally, physically,
whatever, we want to encouragemen to be strong emotionally,
strong physically, and thatmeans doing something about the
weak.
Doing something about it, notengaging it.
Let's build multi-million,billion-dollar industries on how
to help men not look weak.
Let's instead focus on helpingmen not be weak.
(19:41):
Yeah, because right now, whenyou look at the big podcast big
industries, big clothing, it'sall.
What can we do to help mendress up to not look weak
instead of what can we do tohelp men not be weak?
Because man, there's no moredangerous of a man than a man
who looks strong but is actuallyweak.
That guy is dangerous to hiswork family, his home family.
(20:05):
He's dangerous to everybody.
The guy who is invested soheavily in not looking weak are
the worst guys you can spendyour time around and I get the
impulse, though.
I get how good it feels to notlook weak and it's pretty easy.
All you have to do is changethe things you say and the way
you dress and you can be a guywho looks strong.
But to actually be a guy who isstrong, that takes a lot more
(20:26):
work and there's not as muchmoney to be made of those guys.
Yeah, let's, let's talk alittle bit more about what it is
, what it is that women actuallywant and why they're not
complicated.
Glover makes a good point thatwhen a woman is behaving in a
way that doesn't seem to makesense to you, it's probably
because she feels lacking insecurity and stability.
(20:50):
And so if you can acknowledgethat and say, okay, if she's
acting out in a way that doesn'tseem to make sense based on who
she's been previously and whatshe has expressed is important
to her, then yeah, there's agood indication that what's
going on is she doesn't feelsafe or secure or stable.
And I should probably, if I'mgoing to be in a relationship
(21:11):
with her, I should figure outwhat it is that she needs and
what my role is in helping herfind those things.
And I think a generalizationthat women are security-seeking
creatures is pretty fair.
It's not going to be the casefor all of them, but I think,
certainly, if you want to adoptthe mindset of, okay, if she's
behaving in a way that doesn'tmake sense to me, then she
(21:32):
probably isn't feeling the levelof security that she needs.
So I'm going to, I'm going tofigure out what role I can play.
Dan (21:37):
I think men also seek security and trustworthiness as
well, just maybe in a little bitof a different way at times,
and you know how critical thatis to any type of relationship,
whether it's a friendship or aromantic relationship,
father-child relationship.
All of that needs to really bebased on do you trust this other
person?
And when that is called intoquestion based on behavior or
(22:01):
situations, that's when thingsget weaker.
Charles (22:05):
Yeah, and this is where the covert contracts that he
talked about in no more, mr Niceguy, comes in.
If you see the woman in yourlife or yeah, we'll focus on the
woman in your life behaving ina way that you think is
inconsistent with what you cometo expect from her or what she
says she wants, the worst thingyou can do is really try to
(22:28):
manipulate her into feeling oracting quote unquote better, oh,
I'll just.
I'll.
I'll take time away from work,I'll drop hanging out with my
friends, I'll do.
I'll start turning my back onmy hobbies and neglecting those
so that I can spend more timewith her and soothe her so that
she feels better.
No, what you can do is ask herwhat she needs, believe what she
(22:50):
tells you at face value, andthen really balance between
giving her the space she needsto feel her feelings and be as
strong as you can emotionallywhen you're in her presence, and
that will ramp up her abilityto feel security in the
situation that she's in.
Be trustworthy, like we learnedfrom the last book, do what
you're going to, what you sayyou're going to do, and be who
(23:12):
you say you are, and that can doa lot to alleviate those
feelings that she might beexperiencing as a lack of
security.
Dan (23:19):
Yeah, and a lot of that does get conveyed in ways that
you may not be aware of, whichis if you're looking at your
phone, when she's telling yousomething, you aren't being
present, even though you mightphysically be in the same room,
and then you could come back inthe argument when she says, hey,
you're never present.
Oh, we spent an hour together.
You didn't spend an hourtogether, you spent an hour with
your phone and she spent anhour talking to you, and so
(23:39):
there's a big difference interms of that quality time and,
in order to create that sense ofsecurity and that connection,
that means paying attention,being there.
Yeah, absolutely, and, ifanything, it's almost probably
worse that you're there lookingat the phone rather than if you
weren't there at all right, youknow, love language is quality
time and oh yeah on top of that.
Charles (23:59):
But even if it's not your specific love language.
Dan (24:02):
Regardless.
Put the shoe on the other footif you wanted to, if she was
looking at her phone while youwere telling her something and
something that you thought wasespecially something important
to you, and even if it wasn'timportant to you, just the basic
level of respect, and now it'sjust.
That's going to spiral, likeour primitive brain is going to
now also play into that, andthey're going to spiral into
thinking, oh my god, what wassomething?
Probably worse than oh, he wasjust doing really well on his
(24:26):
game on his phone.
It was it, it could besomething.
Oh my God, who's he talking to?
Right, and you don't know.
Now, that has to be, that hasto be dealt with, those
heightened emotions, and so itreally it doesn't take much
other than paying attention,being present and really making
an effort.
Charles (24:44):
Yeah, I, it really is.
Almost.
It's worse to give somebody aweak version of what they need
than to not give it to them atall.
And Because you're basicallysaying this is all you get from
me or this is like all yourworth, I see where he's going
(25:05):
with this and I agree with himbecause the idea that women are
more willing to talk aboutrelationships and more willing
to investigate the dynamics ofrelationships, but that doesn't
necessarily make them better atrelationships.
Women do have an advantage overmen in getting better
relationships in that asking forhelp or looking for resources
(25:28):
to be better at relationships isnot as stigmatized for women as
it is for men.
Yeah, just sitting on the couchwatching Oprah or Dr Phil isn't
going to inherently make youbetter at relationships, but it
does put you in the orbit ofexperts in a way that men don't
typically spend their time.
I mean not a.
You pick out a 10 randomepisodes of the Joe Rogan
(25:51):
podcast.
Not very many of those 10, ifany, are going to be some
relationship expert who's onthere trying to talk about how
you can be better atrelationships.
It shouldn't be more abouttaking cold showers and training
for a hundred mile run.
And did Bigfoot assassinateJohn F Kennedy?
It's not going to be a lot ofin male spaces.
(26:12):
There's not a lot of peopletalking about relationships.
Dan (26:14):
Yeah.
Charles (26:15):
And so I think the barrier to entry for women when
they decide, hey, I do want tolearn more about relationships,
is quite a bit lower than it isfor men.
Dan (26:25):
And they more support to keep going in that pursuit of
knowledge.
Charles (26:30):
Yes, all the guys I hang out with on a fairly
regular basis.
We all enjoy talking aboutrelationships, but I understand
that most men's social circlesare not like that.
Yeah and yeah, I don't thinkjust because women are willing
to talk about it does notnecessarily mean it's going to
translate into the way theybehave in relationships.
But it could.
And guys who never seek outthat information, never talk
(26:54):
about it and never, you know,read books or listen to books
about it, I feel like theirability to improve is going to
be a little bit lower than awoman who does yeah put in the
relationship.
Yeah, I would kind of disagreewith Glover on this point.
I do too.
Yeah, he says that just becauseyou are obsessed with baseball
(27:15):
stats doesn't make you good athitting a major league curveball
Like.
Dan (27:19):
Okay, that's true, but he just talked about the
visualization, though I remembera couple a little bit right, so
it's just okay.
You're visualizing now, yeah,maybe hitting that ball over and
over again, and that'sliterally what you're doing.
You're picturing things asyou're reading them, listening
to them and the more you'reexposing yourself to them.
Yes, all right, you might notbe good as somebody who is like
(27:39):
a professional therapist in thatarea, but if you are constantly
bombarding yourself in yourbrain with information and
concepts and you're visualizingthings and you're hearing and
watching examples of peopledoing conflict resolution and
communicating, yeah, you'regonna be better than somebody
who watches baseball yes, Iwould put some money on that.
Charles (27:59):
Yeah, because part of it is okay, let's.
I don't think reading a book orlistening to a podcast about
relationships is not the same,and expecting that to make you
better at relationships is notthe same as going over baseball
stats making you better at beinga hitter.
But if you are going on youtubeand watching videos by hitting
(28:21):
coaches talking non-stop abouthow to be a better hitter, that
probably will have some positiveimpact on your ability to hit a
because it's more apples yeah,yeah, that's a better analogyter
that probably will have somepositive impact on your ability
to hit a because it's moreapples to apples.
Dan (28:30):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a better analogy thanthan just looking at stats.
So there'll be, there'll be,like somebody doing scientific
research and going oh, women'sbrains are more apt to do this
than that.
That's stats.
That's not actually watching,which is not what they do.
They're engaged in Exactly thethings like you said the videos
and the culture aroundrelationships.
Charles (28:50):
Yeah, that's not in that.
He does say watching Oprah,watching Dr Phil and most books
about relationships, oprahalthough Oprah had some pretty
smart people on there givingpractical advice, I don't know
that Dr Phil does.
Dr Phil is more.
Dan (29:05):
He had some basic principles that he even mentions
.
Is how's that working out foryou?
Dr Phil is more, but he hadsome basic principles that he
even mentions.
Is how's that working out foryou?
And that is a quick question toask yourself.
Fantastic question to ask tobreak your patterns and to make
you aware of.
Oh wait a minute, I'm notgetting what I say I want.
Charles (29:19):
Yeah, Watching an episode of Dr Phil where I mean
I don't need much more than thatfrom him, but I think that was
a pretty powerful question.
Yeah, watching an episode of hisshow where he basically gets
some drill instructor to yell ata kid who's not behaving, that
probably does not help out yourrelationships very much.
But yeah, as asking people youknow who, yeah, a lot of the
guests he's going to have on hisshow and I don't watch his show
.
I've never really watched hisshow but I've seen clips of it
(29:41):
where it's pretty extremebehavior and basically just a
lot of entertainment yeah,exactly, exactly.
No, not the same.
As same as Oprah Winfrey havingBrene Brown on her show and
talking about shame for an hour.
I think, yeah, you willprobably take away some stuff
from this.
It's going to make you a betterperson, even if it's just
interacting with your ownfeelings.
Yeah, yeah, I would see theboat on this one.
I think so.
(30:01):
I think so, and I also don'twant him devaluing the use of
books and podcasts and even TVshows in learning more about
relationships and look that oldsaying of basically you are the
average of the five people thatyou surround yourself with.
Dan (30:14):
You know what If you are listening to and I just went
through this with my sister,actually, the other day was she
said I don't really surroundmyself with anybody who's better
than me.
I'm like, wait a minute.
You listen to podcasts.
You listen to books, audiobooks, from personal development
stuff.
Those are your mentors.
Even though you are notphysically talking to them in
person, you are still hearingthe best of their information
(30:36):
and it's even better than if youwere friends with them.
So you're sitting at a bar withBrene Brown.
You're not going to be talkingabout shame the whole time.
Right, you can be.
Oh, these nachos were reallygood.
That's the thing.
It's like you're getting thebest of them consolidated if
you're listening to these booksand these podcasts.
I count that as people you'resurrounding yourself with.
Charles (30:54):
Yeah, I think that's a fair way of looking at it for
sure, especially if you'rereally immersed in to consuming
everything that they're puttingout, which I do get that way
with some influencers andexperts sometimes, where it's
man, something they said reallyresonated with me, or I heard
them on an interview and now I'mgoing to go out and get every
book, I'm going to listen toevery podcast episode and just
yeah, that I definitely spendmore time with some of those
(31:17):
public intellectuals and expertsthan I do with a lot of friends
that I don't see.
Dan (31:21):
And, that being said, you're going to be, then, maybe
not an average, but you willdefinitely raise your level of
information and competency incertain areas.
Charles (31:30):
All right, let's hit the rest of these myths as
quickly as we can Rapid fire.
Number four is women expectperfection from men.
That's silly.
Nobody wants to be around aperfect person.
It's exhausting and it makesyou feel bad about yourself.
So that's true for evenbeautiful, successful women are
not looking for guys that areperfect.
Dan (31:47):
And put the shoe on the other foot.
If you were looking for theperfect woman, you'd feel a
little insecure about the wholetime that you're with that
person.
So she's not going to belooking for the perfect guy
either, because that's not goingto make her feel great about
herself either.
Correct, if you could do nowrong, which is completely.
Perfection doesn't exist.
Charles (32:02):
All we may say that, yeah, what?
And if we say we're looking forthe perfect partner, we're
looking for the perfect partnerfor us.
We're not looking for one who'sperfect all the time by any
means.
Myth number five friends tolovers.
The idea of just trying to getin with a gal and being her
friend, because then eventuallymaybe you two will kick it off
or it'll light needle strike andyou'll go from being friends to
(32:24):
being romantic partners.
Now, I've done this before.
I've gone from being somebody'sfriend to being somebody's
boyfriend.
But in my experience it neverworks when you go into the
friendship with that intention.
If you go into the friendshipto be friends with somebody,
then yes, something may springup from that eventually.
But the problem is, if you gointo the friendship thinking I
(32:47):
really like to be her boyfriend,so maybe if I become her friend
first, that'll happen.
It usually doesn't because,number one, you get completely
obsessed with that friendshipthat you have with her at the
expense of dating and going outwith girls in a romantic
scenario, which is not good,because you're investing all
(33:08):
your time and your effort intothis friendship when friendship
isn't what you're actually after, and so you also take practice
time away from engaging in otherrelationships.
Dan (33:21):
And again put the shoe on the other foot.
So now?
So a girl, let's say, wants tobe your friend and is acting as
a friend for you for months oryears, and then all of a sudden
or wants to change thefoundation that they've built
and your interpretation of whatyour relationship is.
Again, that's a, it's aviolation of your trust and the
(33:43):
security that you've built, andso that's never really going to
go well.
Charles (33:48):
Yeah and exactly built, and so that's never really
gonna go well, yeah and exactly.
And it is inherently deceptiveto treat someone as a friend
when you find them attractiveand you're attracted to them and
you want to relate, like theprevious partner, that we were
friends first, and one thing Iwould see guys do is, even
though we were friends, we werestill flirty.
(34:10):
We weren't looking for arelationship from each other,
but we were flirty with eachother and I didn't behave as if
every time we hang out, I'mgoing to take my genitals and
lock in a safe and not act likea man around her.
I acted like a man around herand I was not dishonest about
the fact that she was anattractive, interesting person
to be around.
I just wasn't looking for arelationship from her.
(34:30):
She wasn't looking for one forme.
So we were just.
We were real men and real.
We were a real man and a realwoman who were in a friendship
with each other.
And so I didn't have I didn'tfeel like I had to hide any
parts of myself where, when Isee guys crushing on a girl and
be in in her friend zone, a bigpart of the time is they're
hiding who they actually are,and that's a vibe that you can't
(34:50):
choose not to put that off.
Dan (34:51):
And here's the thing I I don't know of many women who
don't really know what youreally want Exactly.
If you are in that position, Idon't think you're fooling
anybody.
It's almost like they have yeah.
Charles (35:02):
It's like we're both going to have a covert contract
with each other where we, whereI pretend I don't see what you
really want and I pretend not tobe what, not to be after what I
actually am after, and it'sjust science.
Good point.
What a, what a vibe killer thatis.
We're both of youers.
You've got this unspokenagreement of I won't acknowledge
that you want me and I won'tacknowledge that I don't want
you in this way, and we'll justbe friends, we'll hang out,
(35:24):
we'll be social, social.
But there's this other thinggoing on that we're both going
to pretend, isn't there?
Dan (35:28):
here's the thing is.
Even so, let's say best casescenario you are able to fool
that other person and theyreally think you're just a
friend, right, and then all of asudden you're like oh, one day
the reveal comes right and it'slike holy shit.
You've been lying to me for howmany months or years?
What else could you potentiallylie to me about or be deceptive
about?
Charles (35:46):
I thought you found me valuable, are you?
I thought you found me valuableas a friend, and now it turns
out you never really did oh,that's a good point too.
Dan (35:53):
Yeah, it's.
Oh, now my self-worth.
Is you really wanted justsomething else from me?
Correct and all the otherthings and I thought you're
willing to tirade me as a friendto to get me as a girlfriend
yeah, that's I don't know ifthat just comes from a lot of
the rom-coms that we watchedgrowing up that that friend to
the girl realizes oh my God,this guy.
Charles (36:14):
Or he was there for me all along.
Yeah, I've never seen it happenin real life where the guy
accepted a friendship becausethat's all he could get and then
she eventually realized aftershe's been heartbroken from all
the other people that oh,realize after she's been
heartbroken from all the otherpeople that, oh yeah.
Think about the most strikingexamples, probably Ross and
(36:35):
Rachel, where the first one ortwo seasons of Friends where he
was absolutely in love with herand he would pretend that he
wasn't, and then in that oneepisode she sees the video of
him putting on his tuxedo totake her to prom because she got
stood up by her prom date.
And then, oh, that's such acompassionate thing, loving
thing for him to do.
Now, boom, all of a sudden I'min love with him right now.
It doesn't work that wayunfortunately or no, I'm okay.
(36:58):
Let me say, fortunately itdoesn't work that way.
Well, I think it the way thatit works.
Let's see it and you understandit.
It's like no, that the way itactually works is better than
the way that no, but, but a lotof times but, but.
Dan (37:09):
but growing up as a, you know, a teenage boy, in that, oh
, you could do one thing andlike stand outside her, her, her
house, with the radio over yourhead and and all of a sudden
it's going to change everythingand that's.
That's a fantasy or a dreamthat we were basically
programmed.
Same thing with, I think, a lotof the Disney princess lives
(37:29):
and stuff like that for girls,and that's why I say it's
unfortunate, because it's oh.
I've been spending my time,wasting my time thinking that
this is what the world is likeExactly and this is how the
world operates, and now, holyshit, I've got to figure
something else out.
Yeah, oh, my God, I've beenwrong for how many years.
Yeah, oh that's scary.
Charles (37:49):
The surest path to success with dating is you being
open and honest about yourintentions and what you want and
getting to rejection as quicklyas you can.
That's the way that it works.
Let's see the.
Those are the.
That's the last of the myths.
But the last part of thischapter is something you and I
repeat all the time Icing, notcake.
A good woman in your lifeshould be the icing on the cake
(38:14):
and not the cake itself.
Yeah, and I have found the mostattention I've gotten from
women in my life has been once Igot to the age where I decided
to focus on myself, my career,my interests, my hobbies, the
traveling I like to do thehiking, I like to do the podcast
you and I have.
The more time I spend investingin the things that I need to
(38:37):
make my life what I want it tobe, the more I get attention
from women who look in thatguy's got some stuff going on.
That's pretty exciting.
I'd like to be around that, ora part of that, or a part of
that.
Dan (38:54):
Yeah, because then you've got inherent value to give, and
then it's not the fluffy icingpiece that is created based on
the relationship that hasn'teven been built yet.
So yeah, bake that cake.
Charles (39:04):
And the opposite should be true too.
You should look for a partnerwho's got their own cake, right,
guys?
You guys provide icing for eachother.
That is complimentary.
And settle down.
Dan, you provide icing, youricing tastes good on her cake
and her icing tastes good onyour cake.
I love me some frosting.
(39:25):
I usually like if work's havinga birthday party, I always pick
the pieces with the leastamount of.
Oh really, I see, yeah, I don't.
I like the.
Dan (39:34):
I'm more of a cake guy depends on the cake and depends
on the icing.
So if it's a cream cheese icingI'll look on a carrot cake.
Yeah, load that up.
Charles (39:41):
I like that, but just like a plain vanilla icing
whatever with a foamy kind oficing that you did on like
there's your store sheet cakes.
I don't like that.
I'll take a piece from themiddle that has, okay, not all
that much icing, but yeah, likethe big, like candy flowered,
icing, like they put on thecorners of.
Dan (39:57):
Like that I'm not.
Charles (39:57):
Yeah, I like that, yeah all right, I think we are good
to stop there, dan.
Our next chapter is going to bereasons not to pursue hot women
.
I don't like the title of thischapter either, because once you
get into the chapter, he's nottalking about what most people I
would say call hot women.
He's talking about vain women.
Reasons not to pursue vainwomen Correct, and that I agree
(40:19):
with.
A million percent.
Hot women, again, as weconventionally discuss the term
hot, I like.
I date hot girls and I like it.
It's vain women that I have notime for.
Dan (40:29):
And I think people you know remember one person's opinion
of what is hot is different thananother's.
Charles (40:35):
There are some, there's some, I think, legitimately
objective of ways that we allmatch up on it, but some ways we
don't Sure but right,absolutely.
Dan (40:42):
Keep that in mind too.
Just, you're not going to beattractive to every woman,
you're not going to find everywoman attractive to the same
thing, or to what degree.
Charles (40:49):
Yeah, and I've talked about, I think, on the show
before.
I don't really buy into theconcept of leagues oh, she's out
of my league, I'm out of herleague.
There are no leagues, there are.
People have preferences.
They have things like I don'tbelieve that any woman is too
good or too attractive for me todate.
She just might have preferencesthat don't match up with who I
am, and that's fine.
(41:10):
But the idea of oh, she's toohot to date me, I don't buy it,
I don't look into it.
Dan (41:15):
Our brain likes to make shortcuts to save energy, and
just be aware of that and try toavoid making those shortcuts.
Charles (41:22):
Yeah, that's great advice.
All right, we'll stop there fortoday and we'll do chapters
eight and nine when I see younext week.
Sounds good, sir.
Thanks, Dan.
Hey, thanks so much forlistening to the entire episode.
We appreciate it.
Again, please check out ourwebsite mindfullymasculinecom
for full audio and videoepisodes, as well as anything
(41:42):
else that we decide to put there.
Thanks, and talk to you nexttime.
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