August 27, 2025 • 46 mins
Honoring menopause as a life stage, not just a phase to get through acknowledges the weight of this transition. We live in a society that hasn’t given much room to understanding women’s bodies. While there is more information now than before, there are still large gaps in support for the physical, mental, and emotional experience of menopause. Too often, women don’t even begin to ask for information until we are already experiencing the challenges of shifting hormones. We turn to managing symptoms instead of caring for this pivotal transition.
In this episode of Mindset Unlimited, I invited Marelda Rodrigues to join me in a conversation about honoring menopause as a life stage and yourself as deserving of care.
Some of what we talk about in this episode includes:
- Experiencing grief in physical transitions
- Societal norms, gaps in information, and becoming an advocate for yourself
- Health and self-care look different in different phases of life
- Slowing down and making room to learn your new body
LINKS TO REFERENCES MADE IN THIS EPISODE:
NPR – Doctors Urge FDA to Remove Warning On Hormone Therapy for Menopause
Last Week Tonight – Make America Healthy Again
Collaborative Leadership from Boardroom to Patient-Centered Caregiving episode
CONNECT WITH MARELDA
Instagram – Sovereign Becoming
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This podcast was produced by Valerie Friedlander Coaching
Proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Valerie Friedlander (00:00):
Hello, my friends and welcome to another
(00:02):
episode of Mindset Unlimited.
Mindset tips, tools andinspiration for women in a time
of change. I'm your host,Valerie Friedlander, ICF
certified coach, sociologist,intersectional feminist artist,
mom and nerd. Today we aretalking about honoring menopause
as a life stage. No, it's notjust a phase to get through. It
(00:22):
is a stage of life that we areentering when we hit, you know,
mid 40s, maybe even earlier. Butbecause it's something new, it's
a new phase of life, we want togive it some room and actually
know about it. So we are talkingabout this, and I think it's
(00:43):
particularly important to noteit just a couple things before
we dive in. And that is that themedical establishment, while we
have more information, we knowmore about menopause, it is
still really new, and it is notintegrated into our general
(01:03):
knowledge. It's not somethingthat doctors are often deeply
trained in. The dots that needto be connected about all the
different ways that weexperience this transition are
not given the weight and supportthat we need, it's not all
covered or supported by healthinsurance. There's so many
(01:25):
issues, and one of the thingsthat this has caused is it's led
to distrust of the medicalestablishment, which makes
sense. A lot of the pusheswithin that field have to do
with health insurance, and whatthe health insurance industry
dictates as covered and notcovered, what is valued, as far
(01:49):
as studies go, what money goesinto, basically, and what is
valued in our society, andfrankly, Once women pass the
baby producing stage. We're notvalued, so money's not put
there, so there isn't a lot ofsupport and information. And
this has led to things like theMaHA movement, which has taken
(02:12):
things quite off the rails.
Maha, if you don't know, standsfor Make America healthy again.
And John Oliver did a reallygreat episode recently on The
Last Week Tonight Show on Mahaso I encourage you to check that
out, because he really gets intosome of these nuances of, well,
(02:35):
yes, but also this is a problem,this approach or this direction
where we don't trust scienceanymore, not just the medical
industry, and we're pushingthese things that aren't
actually backed by anything andeven harmful to people. So
anyway, go check out thatepisode. It's linked in the show
(02:56):
notes. And the other aspect isthat stress plays a large role
in our experience of this shiftin our bodies, and so the people
who experience the greatestamount of stress due to systemic
oppression experience the mostchallenge when it comes to this
(03:22):
shift in our bodies, and so it'sreally important that we
advocate. Heather Mauer, who isthe CEO of the National
Association of nursepractitioners in women's health,
joined me in a conversation awhile back on advancing
collaborative leadership fromboardroom to patient centered
(03:42):
caregiving, and she talks aboutthat advocacy for herself, but
also the dynamics of privilegewithin that and so I recommend
checking that out, because Ithink the more privileges we
have within the system, the moreimportant We push using whatever
we have access to to expandunderstanding, to advocate for
(04:07):
the dots that need to beconnected, being connected, for
the coverage to be there, forthe support to be there, because
that does have a ripple effect.
When we say we need thisinformation and this needs to be
valued. That is part of thereason why we have the
information that we have now,for example, another thing that
(04:27):
I linked in the show notes is anarticle from NPR where doctors
are urging the FDA to removewarnings on the hormone therapy
for menopause, which issomething that Heather talks
about in our interview. So, andthat was before that had
actually happened, but it was,it was that advocacy. So these
(04:47):
are things that we really needto give room for, and so
recognizing there is a rippleeffect from when we give
ourselves. Else, space torecognize, no, this isn't just a
phase, and this is somethingthat deserves attention. We
deserve care, and that starts topush into more care, right? We
(05:12):
deserve care when you give careto yourself and you recognize
that is valuable. You arevaluable at all the phases and
stages of your life, and so areother women and other human
beings, right? It ripplesoutward. So I thought it was
really important that we take alook at honoring menopause as a
(05:36):
life stage. And to do that, Iinvited marelda Rodriguez to
join me in this conversation.
Some of the things that we talkabout in this episode are
experiencing grief, in physicaltransitions, societal norms,
gaps in information, becoming anadvocate for yourself. Health
and self care look different indifferent phases of life and
(06:01):
slowing down and making room tolearn your new body. I know that
you're going to love thisconversation. I'm so excited to
share it with you. If you havequestions or you have comments
or you have stories you wouldlike to share, I invite you to
reach out. There are a number ofdifferent ways to do that. They
(06:22):
are all linked in the shownotes. So please, I would love
to hear from you if you arelooking for support in
navigating transitions, moreelders, information is linked in
the show notes, as is mine. Soplease reach out. You deserve
care and you deserve support.
And now, without further ado,let's get started.
(06:54):
Welcome Marelda. I'm so excitedto have you. Thank you so much
for joining me.
Marelda Rodrigues (06:58):
Thank you so much, Valerie.
Valerie Friedlander (07:00):
All right, so let's start with if you could
just introduce yourself a littlebit to everybody listening.
Marelda Rodrigues (07:09):
Sure. I will start by saying that the impetus
for wellness for women has takena very sharp turn for immediate
so if anybody is sitting by thewayside, sitting on the outside
looking in today's conversation,my hope is that it'll change
(07:29):
that. And where I'm coming fromis combining my years and
wellness as what started out asmassage therapist becoming a
functional medicine healthcoach, becoming a sleep science
coach, and now becoming aspecialist in menopause and
really understanding the gravityof the things we do not have in
(07:50):
place that need to be in placeimmediately.
Valerie Friedlander (07:55):
Yeah, I'm so excited to talk about this,
because I know so many peoplewho listen, who are going
through or heading towards thattransition. So I think this is
this will probably launch usinto that, what is something
that you once took for grantedthat you have since unlearned?
Marelda Rodrigues (08:17):
Wow. So I will start by saying that,
because I come from a family ofthat has a lot of chronic
disease like diabetes, highblood pressure, high cholesterol
and all of these chronicconditions. When I was in my 30s
and I was just embarking on thiswellness professional journey I
(08:42):
just did. I I would say tomyself, I do not want to be like
the people in my family. I don'tcare what they say about
genetics, but I'm going to notbe like them, because I saw the
progression of these chronicdiseases, so when they were in
the elderly stage, how it reallyravaged the body. And I was
like, Nope, no, thank you. Andso I thought I was doing really
(09:07):
well. And I thought, hey, Idon't, you know, I eat for my
microbio. I I'm reallyparticular about my gut health.
Now, did I have some setbacks?
Yes, but they weren't thatdifficult to correct along the
way, and then I hit menopause,and I just, like a lot of women,
just thought, hey, you knowwhat? It's the end of periods.
(09:29):
Let me celebrate. I actuallygave away multiple packets of
sanitary napkins to a friend ofmine. I said, Here you go. I
don't need this anymore, and I'mgoing to celebrate, right? And
that's where I thought it endedside by side. I had all these
new aches and pains and thingshappening along the way, and I
(09:52):
thought, as a massage therapist,I can't even explain where these
are coming from. So these are.
Strange. So it just, you know,was strange, but what I learned
going forward and this year hasbeen a real challenge. Mind you,
I'm about to turn 58 andmenopause for me was 51 So seven
(10:14):
years of craziness that Ifinally figured out this year
were all attributed tomenopause. And one of the
biggest things was, while Iprided myself as never being
diabetic, one of the firstsymptoms I had was not diabetes,
but what's actually calledinsulin resistance, and slightly
(10:35):
different than diabetes, wherethe body doesn't receive glucose
like it's supposed to, asopposed to diabetes, where
you're just not producing thehormone that can deal with it.
Here, it's just a littledifferent. You have the hormone,
but it's just not workingcorrectly, and that's because
there's a certain amount ofdisruption in the reproductive
(10:58):
hormones that are creating thisnew confusion in the body.
That's what I had to unlearn, isthat I can be the bestest at my
nutrition and my microbiome andall these fabulous things, but
to suddenly come across the butyou don't have estrogen. So what
are you going to do, and then tofall into the very bucket I was
(11:24):
happily coasting along going, Idon't have that was, I would
say, by far the biggest. Well,what are you talking about?
Well, but what do you mean?
Yeah, but I, but I, but I, and Icouldn't come up with an
explanation.
Valerie Friedlander (11:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's, it's so interesting.
We I'm really grateful that thishas become much more of a topic.
Now there is more information.
People are finally studyingwomen's bodies and trying to
understand stuff and that, Ithink that's great. And what I
tend to hear when people aretalking about menopause, it is
(12:01):
kind of along the lines of whatwhat you said about like, I
don't understand. This isstrange. This is strange. This
is strange. And while, okay, nowthere's a little bit more
information, but it's it, westill seem to be caught up in
like, either you know, this isstrange, complaining about it,
making jokes about it, or, youknow, striving to find
(12:24):
information which is is at leasthelpful. What I don't hear
people talking much about, andwe chatted a little bit about
this before we were recording,is the embodied experience of
it, like being with it, and it'suncomfortable, like I get, you
know, talk all the time aboutlike, being with the
uncomfortable emotions, likebeing with those parts that we
(12:45):
otherwise, we just kind of tryand shove away, and we try and
go, Okay, good. And we're like,focused on getting through I
just want to get through it. Iwant to get to the other side.
Just numb me out till I can getto the other side of it, like I
just want to get through. Andone of the things that you
talked about with the theembodied experience is also the
(13:07):
This isn't something you getthrough. You never get to post
menopause. That's not That's nota thing. And I'd love for you to
share a little bit more aboutthat embodied and being with
experience as well as the thisisn't something to get through.
Marelda Rodrigues (13:29):
And let me start with a couple of facts
that have added or initiatedthese problems. The first thing
is that right until 1993 womenwere not even considered as
subjects in studies. And soimagine not even being included
(13:55):
because you were consideredproblematic. You had a period,
then we had to worry about yourmood, and we didn't know if you
could be in the study and allthis was going on. So they would
study men, who they consideredmore stable participants.
Really, it wasn't a whole lot ofdata on women to the point where
even something as common as aheart attack in a woman was not
(14:19):
even identified correctly,because the data we had was pain
in the left arm, whereas womentend to have more pain in the
back. And this is what happenedthe day my mom died, and I want
to make a real impact statementhere, because she went to my dad
and asked him to massage herback. She was like, okay, and
(14:42):
she didn't have much time, theheart attack took over, took her
by the end of the day. So youknow, a lot of my journey in
menopause has been revisitingall the symptoms that she had
and how we did not have data,and how she was also made to.
Feel bad, maybe unintentionally,by the men around her, whether
(15:03):
it was my dad not knowing how tohelp her, the doctors not
knowing anything. Doesn'tmatter, like which country
you're in. And then whatexacerbated the whole thing is
there was a study that wasmisinterpreted providing women
with hormonal support. I believethat was in 2002 where then
(15:25):
everybody shut down because itwas associated with giving women
breast cancer and so much wasnot right study. And this left a
whole generation of women, ifyou think, from 2002 onwards,
they stopped the conversation.
And now you have women, I'mtalking to women in their late
(15:45):
60s or 70s that are asking mequestions that perimenopausal
women are asking me because theydidn't have it. And they're
going, what this is, this ismenopause, really. But what's
making it confusing to them isthey're thinking, Oh, it's just
high blood pressure, oh, it'sjust incontinence, oh, I'm
(16:05):
aging. And there is so much thatcan be done in the
perimenopausal stage. And soit's, you know, it's one of
those things. When do you startstart learning about menopause
in your 30s. When is the nextbest time to start, if you're
past that, is today. Yeah. Andso you talked a little bit about
(16:28):
embodiment and women reallyembracing this. And you know,
the whole medical model we havein place is a pill for an ill
and this was coined by DrJeffrey bland, who is considered
the godfather of functionalmedicine. And the pill for an
(16:49):
ill concept is very much howchronic diseases are treated.
Oh, you got high blood pressure,here's a pill you got
incontinence, here's a pillyou've got high cholesterol,
here's a pill, you've gotanything, here's a pill or
here's a procedure. And whatwe've had to go back to is even
(17:09):
understanding what is the rootcause. Why are you feeling this
way? When are you feeling thisway? Is it consistent? Is it
sometimes? And as a massagetherapist, I have people coming
in saying, I want deep tissuebecause that's their pill for
the ill. Yeah, I don't even knowwhat's going on in your body.
Like, what if deep tissue is notthe thing? So tell me what's
(17:32):
going on so I can use myexpertise instead of you coming
and saying, Give me thepainkiller. And I'm like, but
it's the wrong painkiller. Ihave something better for you.
And one of the things that Ifind with women is that they
feel that asking for help orreceiving help is a ding against
(17:56):
them. You know, they're capablemoms. They're career women.
They're, you know, used tomanaging multiple projects, and
they don't need help. They canfigure it out menopause is
actually a better experience asa communal experience, is what I
have found, and it is also aexperience that requires you to
(18:21):
pause and have a real sit downmeeting with Mother Nature. It
is not about what you're capableof. It is not about whether you
want to receive, whether youknow. Do you can you find it on
Google. Can you find it on chat?
(18:41):
GPT? Can you create an AI modelto solve your problems? You
know, it is not about that. Itis not about intelligence, or, I
should say, intellectualintelligence. It's about body
intelligence. Yeah, and if youhave never operated, if you have
operated, as I call it, abovethe neck, suddenly learning to
(19:07):
tap into body intelligence isnot going to come easily, and it
has absolutely nothing to dowith your capabilities. How many
degrees you have, how manychildren you have, how many what
size of responsibility you haveanywhere it's all about. Do you
know how to manage your innerself from an in you know, I talk
(19:31):
about the five bodies,physically, emotionally,
mentally, spiritually andenergetically? Yeah, that's the
embodiment. Because none of it,you know, even when I say
mentally, I'm I'm looking at notjust your thoughts, but also, is
your actual brain organ workingcorrectly?
Valerie Friedlander (19:55):
Yeah, well, and I love that you brought up
the community component.
Because, you know, I. Thinkabout these, these major
transitions that women's bodiesgo through. Now we move into
fertility, get our period andour body develops in a
particular way, right for that,and then we move out of
fertility as you know, we couldput it in, you know, we have the
(20:19):
the child woman, crone phases ofour life. And I think, I guess I
wonder. I haven't, I haven'texplored this a whole lot, but I
do wonder if people engage thisphase, this similar to like that
this transition, similar to theway they experienced an earlier
(20:41):
transition. And I know that alot of people while at least
when I was growing up, there wasa little bit more conversation.
I've had conversations withother parents who have female
children whose friends never gotstill aren't getting talked to
about getting their period.
(21:02):
They're still not getting thoseconversations. And I know with
my mother, she made a point oftrying to, trying to build a
level of ritual into when I gotmy first period of like this,
like honoring this, thistransition, or allowing some
room for that shift in my life,in my in my body. Now, you know,
(21:27):
I mean, this was like, not, notsomething that was super
familiar, so I wouldn't say thatthere was a lot of like
attention to what's happening inmy body, like there was still a
lot of disconnect. I am one ofthose people who only relatively
recently, maybe the past decadeor so, has started like paying
more attention to coming downfrom the head into the rest of
(21:48):
the body and going, what'shappening here? But I do, I
wonder, because that's ourexperience. Well, you just get
through it. You just, you hideit, you you try not to. You
know, don't let anybody knowyou're on your period. Like, Oh,
it's embarrassing. Oh, you know,blood, you know it's treated in
this way. And then here we havemenopause, while more people are
talking about it, there's stillnot a how do we experience it?
(22:12):
How do we honor this shift?
Because I know change, there'salways a piece of grief in
change, in transition. I'mcurious what you have noticed in
that facet in your work. Itseems like a natural transition
to go from that that griefmassage and that embodied
experience, you know what ishappening in your body, asking
(22:34):
those questions and knowing thegrief process into this period
and the grief that goes into atransition.
Marelda Rodrigues (22:47):
I'll address that by first of all, taking,
like, maybe a few steps back.
I'm pretty sure I'm really newto many of your listeners. I was
working more actively in thegrief space, starting in 2019 as
massage therapist, and had asituation with a client that led
me down the path of creatinggrief massage, my version of it
(23:10):
still a relatively unknownmodality, and I realized early
on that I could Only massage somany people. So I knew that
educating other massagetherapists was going to be
important. Now, while I was inthat space, I also created
wellness plans for people thatare grieving because your
(23:32):
appetite Takes a Dip, yourstress goes up, your sleep goes
out the window. You're notmoving your body, all these
pieces come unglued, and itmakes for suffering to go up, so
helping Grievers bring sufferingunder control by implementing
wellness plans was where I wasfocused. Until this year when I
(23:57):
attended a menopause event, andthe term menopause grief came
up, and I it just hit me likeanother ton of breaks, like it
did back in 2019 just griefmassage hit me like a ton of
breaks. And what I realized isthere are a couple different
(24:18):
terms, and I've learned them indifferent arenas, in my daily
learning activities andexploring other topics around
grief as well. One is bodygrief. And body grief is when
you have any diagnosis, whetherit's an autoimmune condition,
whether it is cancer, whether itis a skin condition that is
(24:44):
going to be chronic, whateverthe diagnosis is, and the grief
comes from one, losing health,and two, feeling like you're
losing control of your body and.
So just like I was saying, Itried to keep my health under
(25:04):
control, and here I am withinsulin resistance that is
menopause related. Totally Ican't control the estrogen,
right? It is. It is what it is.
And so did I feel just confusedand bewildered. We'll use those
terms. When the doctor was like,Yeah, you know, I'm just going
to confirm what you werethinking in insulin resistance.
And I was like, Oh, well, howdoes this happen? Right? So
(25:28):
there's a body grief, becauseyou're feeling out of control
with the things you're alreadydoing, and the spaghetti is not
sticking on the wall, whereas itused to before, and then you
have what's called menopause,grief, which is fraught with so
many life changes. Now you're inthe stage of your life where
(25:49):
you're a caregiver to yourparents. You are an empty
nester. You are maybe shiftingin your relationship with your
spouse or significant other. Youmay be shifting in your career
and going, I don't want to dothis anymore. I work too many
hours and I'm exhausted and Idon't want it. I just don't want
it. And also, you're like, I'mso tired, or I'm not in the
(26:13):
mood, or I'm screaming ateveryone, and I don't even
scream, and I don't know how toexplain this thing in my body.
So that comes with a anotherloss of control. So once again,
we're speaking loss, notbereavement, loss, but loss of
control, loss of the freedomwith the beautiful health you
(26:34):
may have had that was on point,because it matched everything
you put into it, right? I I didmy cardio, I did my this, I did
my that. I would say some of themenopause grief is also or even
body grief can come out of likeheart disease, which goes up
when estrogen declines. So it's,how do you get educated? How do
(26:57):
you accept that this is yourpath until you leave the planet?
And you know, also addressingthis what I call the other ring,
and the other ring is saying,Oh, I passed menopause a long
time ago. And what women arereferring to is what I call the
(27:19):
textbook definition. Like, whenyou haven't had a period for 12
months, you're 365 days withouta period, and on the 366 day in
just one day, you're menopausal,you're in menopause, and then
you're considered postmenopause, but it's still
menopause. We don't just walkaround saying, I'm cured. You're
(27:41):
now going to deal with mostlysilent things that come undone,
whether it's like for me, I hadhip pain that I was walking
around going, what is this hippain from? And I didn't even
know how to address it, becauseno one could tell me what the
origin is, and if we're justgoing to physically, you know,
(28:01):
do physical therapy, what are weexactly working on? Because I
want to know where it came from.
Is it going to stick around? Ismy effort for path A, or is my
effort for path B? So I want toknow and just othering by saying
(28:22):
I'm not this, I'm that. And I'mhearing this now from even women
in what we call pre menopause,which is before perimenopause,
who are in their 30s, andsaying, I'm not there yet and
I'm like, you don't have to bethere, but you do have to be
educated, because some of theseperimenopausal symptoms happen
four to 10 years before they'resilent for the most part, or
(28:48):
nobody's talking about them. Iremember in my 40s, when I was
perimenopausal, all I couldthink of because I'm so in tune
with my body in terms of thesensations and the feelings. And
I I remember saying to some ofmy friends, oh my gosh, like in
my 40s, I have no idea why everysingle period was worse than the
(29:11):
month before. And you wouldthink I've experienced in this.
I've had a period since I was11. I mean, I'm experienced in
this. Why can I not handle aperiod in my 40s? What is going
on? Do you know, even when I hit50, and to this day, three
(29:31):
doctors that I've been to whilethey're considered good doctors
in women's health, not one ofthem has had a menopause
conversation. Connected any ofmy symptoms to menopause or told
me how to go forward. And I donot believe, as a health coach
that we should be uneducated. Ihave spent years educating
(29:55):
people as massage therapists asto why they have dysfunction and
pain patterns. Their body. I amjust shifting these why is it
happening? Where is the origin?
Let's connect the dots, andlet's create a plan, and let's
create a framework before youneed it. So that way, all you
have to do is practice in yournew body and execute what you
(30:15):
know. And I believe that puttingwomen on this path is going to
create less confusion, less talkabout symptoms, more talk about
empowered execution. What do Ido? Okay, I felt the hot flash.
Here's what I gotta do, or aheadof the hot flash, or the night
(30:37):
sweats or the disrupted sleep,or the hip pain or the frozen
shoulder. I have massagetherapists who have no idea.
Neither did I. I had frozenshoulder in both shoulders. And
as a massage therapist, I justthought it was because I had
moved incorrectly, because I'mgoing okay, the origin is an
improper movement, and themuscle got mad, only to now be
(30:59):
closer to 58 and find out when Igo back and look at how old I
was, I was perimenopausal. Andso now, when women come in to
see me, I ask them actively, howold are you? Have you had any
other symptoms? Are you seeinganything else? Are any other
(31:22):
joints hurting? Are you havingany other difficulties in
moving, or, you know, stuff likethat, so they can get ahead of
these things.
Valerie Friedlander (31:33):
Yeah, that idea of learning how to listen
to your new body and engage thisshift in your body as you were,
as you were saying the wordmenopause. I was like, how
appropriate that the second partof that word is pause. Okay,
it's time to pause. And insteadof just attacking the symptoms,
(31:58):
let's look at what's theunderlying facets here so that
we can care for those. And Ioften will talk about, okay, we
get really stressed that it'sstress increases, the suffering
increases when we're trying tocontrol things that we don't
have control over. And what doesit look like if we stop trying
(32:19):
to control it and start tryingto care for it, like now we need
to nurture and care for this newbody. And in thinking about if I
could go back in time and carefor myself as I headed into
womanhood, as you know, likeunderstanding my body's ability
(32:39):
to reproduce and like the thingsI needed to do to take care of
myself and protect myself andkeep myself well in this new
body that had shifted, whatwould I want for myself, then
that I could give to myself nowin this transition as An adult
(32:59):
person who has more ability todo things and make choices and
ask for stuff as an adult personwho who can advocate for myself
asking those questions that youwere saying about just Okay, so
what is this tied to? What? Whatis this additional to? And it
seems so. It does seem soconfusing, though, like, well,
(33:22):
if I, if I broke my leg, thatwould that's just a thing, but
maybe it's like, Why did I getoff balance? What were the
corresponding things to thatexperience? That's like, an
isolated thing, but it's notbecause if I broke my leg, I'm
going to walk differently. Andif I'm walking differently,
(33:42):
that's going to change othermuscles and how they're
compensating, and that's goingto shift these other things,
and, oh, I might not be movingmy body as much because I can't
walk on that leg for a time. Andwhat does that do for how I need
to eat, and what other things Icould do to make sure that I'm
(34:05):
getting the physical engagementand activity and not falling out
of the things that are nurturingfor me just while this other
part of me is healing it so itmakes me think like we can't
just take any of those inisolation, they're always either
the root is somewhere else orand, or the impact has more, a
(34:32):
more holistic spread to it thanjust that one thing, just that
frozen shoulder, just that notHaving a period anymore, just
that, you know, like whatever,whatever that is, is what comes
to mind for me, I wonder when itcomes to those things, like you
mentioned a few times, the ideaof having kind of a plan for
(34:55):
yourself. What does that looklike?
Marelda Rodrigues (34:59):
The first piece is really understanding
the journey. Like, if you wereto visit a destination, like,
let's say we were going to go toAlaska, we would look at how to
get there. What's on the ground?
Who's our tour guide? Where arethe hotels? What is this? What
is that? How much is it? Is itwithin the budget? Could we
(35:22):
squeeze in a little excursionhere? You know, what other do we
experience food differently?
Will we be walking a lot? Whatare we going to be doing? So we
spend more time on planning thisvacation to Alaska than even
getting to know what menopauseis. So just start there with,
(35:42):
okay, the destination ismenopause. This is the
destination you will be. This isthe country you will be for the
rest of your life. Once you hitit, once you once your plane
lands, it's like HotelCalifornia. You can you can
never leave. Okay, that's thebest way I can say it. You will
never leave. So you might aswell learn how you're going to
(36:04):
lay down your roots. Like, canyou lay down your roots? Do you
go to the left side? Do you goto the right side? Do you just
spin around three times? What isthe general pathway? Now, a lot
of it is not exactly talkedabout, so it's still coming out
of the shadows, if you will.
Right now, doctors aren't eventrained in menopause. They get
(36:25):
about maybe six hours ofmenopause training for one of
the most important phases for awoman's life. And I'm talking
about GYN. I'm not talking aboutlike your GP or your
cardiologist. I'm talking aboutthe actual people involved in
women's reproductive healtharen't trained. They're trained
(36:45):
ad nauseam, for getting on thepill, dealing with pregnancies,
reach pregnancies, Cesareans,postpartum, Nah, you know, I
don't know how much postpartumas well, but there's a certain
amount of knowledge theremenopause, not some alchemy. And
then if you shut down theconversations after 2002 and you
(37:06):
are only now reopening them,imagine how much you have to
scrape through. Say this isgarbage. And then this is what
actually happens. Now we'refinding more data, details,
protocols can be made aroundthis new information. And so
this is why I said earlier, thewomen in their 30s who say to
(37:29):
me, Oh, I'm not there yet, orthe women who just come into 40
going, give me a minute. I justgot here. I'm like, You're
already late. You are alreadylate, being on time is actually
between 35 to 40, or even 32 to35 the education of it. And I
know that this is kind of goingto come with the pushback of,
(37:52):
why are you hurrying theexperience of menopause onto
people? I'm really not. I'msounding the fact that we are
already late, and I'm creatingan opportunity for the women
that are coming up in their 30sto not have to be in their
(38:13):
symptoms or the especially thesilent ones, like osteoporosis,
high blood cholesterol, thecreep up of blood pressure,
random pains, the precursors ofAlzheimer's or dementia. These
are the things that happensilently and there is a lot to
be done to stay in a space thatgives you more health freedom.
(38:39):
That gives you what we callhealth span. Like, it doesn't
matter if you're 105 and that'syour lifespan, why would you
want to be 105 and miserable orin terrible health? Right? So we
want to speak in health span.
Valerie Friedlander (38:58):
Yeah, I tend to be, tend to be resistant
to the idea of being late. And Ihear what you're saying there,
though, because we we think Idon't want to have to deal with
this until I get there. But one,it's not like a today I'm in it
and tomorrow, you know, or todayI'm not in it tomorrow. It's a
(39:20):
gradual thing that we don'talways see, and we are so busy,
like there's so many societalfactors that are constantly
pulling our attention that wetend to get caught up in what
feels urgent. So placing acertain amount of urgency behind
this makes sense to me, becausethat's what we are conditioned
(39:44):
to pay attention to, only ifit's urgent, and it's like no,
this is urgent. Your well being,your health, is urgent. It
deserves care. It's worthy ofattention. It's worthy of care.
And I think that is a placewhere a lot of women. Our goal
of they focus on everybody elseand not on their own care. But
(40:05):
how do you care for others? Ifyou know the whole oxygen mask
thing, right? But it's verycliche. But the other thing is
that it's really important tonote, like you were saying about
the doctors and stuff, we arenot considered societally
valuable once we can't producechildren, there's a fundamental
narrative around that that toresist it means prioritizing our
(40:33):
health, putting urgency behindour care and behind this
transition that we've beentaught to kind of demonize. You
know, to complain about, to beupset about, to to suffer with
instead of going, No, this ispart of my life. I'm still
valuable once I hit that point.
And I'm going to treat it likeit's value. I'm going to treat
(40:54):
it like it's my vacation. I lovethat you framed it that way,
because, like, I'm heading to goon this vacation, and it's going
to be this journey, this epicjourney of this phase of my
life. And I'm going to planaccordingly, because I'm worth
planning for this, because myhealth and my well being are
worth it. I want to shout thatout to everybody who's
(41:17):
listening. We have to putcertain amounts of urgency
behind these things, becauseotherwise we just don't pay
attention to them. And you areworth that attention. You are
worth treating urgently, even ifthe rest of the society is not
going to treat us urgently, youare worth treating urgently. So
I really appreciate that. Howcan people get more from you?
(41:41):
Because you mentioned the wholecommunity thing, I know that's
something that is in process foryou, because we need that space
to uplift the fact that wedeserve the care, because in our
own heads, it's so easy to getsucked back into what we've been
conditioned with. So where canpeople find you? Tell us a
little bit about what's comingfor you that we can connect with
(42:03):
and learn more so we're moreprepared.
Marelda Rodrigues (42:09):
A lot of my spaces are still in where people
would find me for grief, whichisn't a bad thing, necessarily,
but I have new resources comingthat are by the time, depending
on when people are listening tothis podcast, are either in the
initial stage or going to be inthe full of information stage.
(42:30):
But people can find me throughmy new iteration, which is
called Sovereign becoming, whereI teach women how to become self
governing and come out of thathiding and thinking they're not
worthy, and thinking they shouldnot be asking for help, thinking
(42:51):
that health is to be overriddenbecause they don't come first.
Sovereign becoming is my handlepretty much everywhere. So right
now, I would say Instagram, andI also have an online community,
and I can certainly share thelink with you where I am taking
(43:12):
women through different aspectsof not just the physical pieces
of menopause. So I'm talkingabout sleep and I'm talking
about other changes in the body,but I'm also talking about the
griefs that I mentioned earlier.
I'm also talking about wherethey are tolerating things they
(43:32):
should not be tolerating, andhow to overcome these and still
feel whole and worthy. So ifpeople just want to know what
I'm about, they can go to myInstagram, sovereign becoming
handle, and if they want to bethe person that says I need the
help, or I'm the person thatwants to plan my whole journey
(43:56):
and have most on my side, thenthe online community is also
available.
Valerie Friedlander (44:06):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for that, andI'm excited to share it just a
note for everyone. It will be inthe show notes, as always all
the links, so definitely checkthose out. And as we wrap up, I
like to ask two questions. Oneis, what does it mean to you to
be unlimited?
Marelda Rodrigues (44:25):
For me, unlimited is where I do not have
to pay any attention to myresources, how I feel or how I
move in the world, to me that'sunlimited. That is expansive. It
(44:46):
feels expansive to almost thesoul level.
Valerie Friedlander (44:52):
Yeah, yeah.
And when you want to tap intothat expansive feeling, what
song do you listen to?
Marelda Rodrigues (45:00):
The song that has inspired me ever since I
heard it. For years. Now I don'teven know how old both the song
is, probably at least a decadeand a half. So is the song
unwritten by Natasha Bedingfield.
Valerie Friedlander (45:13):
Awesome.
Well, I will have that added tothe unlimited podcast playlist
so everybody can check that out.
Thank you so much for joiningme. Marelda, I really appreciate
you.
Marelda Rodrigues (45:26):
Thank you so much. Valerie, this was so
wonderful. Thank you again.
Valerie Friedlander (45:30):
Thank you so much for listening. I really
appreciate you being here, and Ihope you got something out of
this episode. If you did, Iwould love it. If you would
share it with a friend, give ita like a review. Certain
platforms are easier to do thaton others, but it really does
help me be more findable toother folks. So please take a
(45:51):
moment to do that, if you would.
And if you have questions, sometopic that you'd like me to
cover, or a comment about theepisode or the show in general,
I'd love to hear from you. Thereare links in the show notes to
reach out, and I will talk toyou all next time.
Hello, my friends and welcome to another
(00:02):
episode of Mindset Unlimited.
Mindset tips, tools andinspiration for women in a time
of change. I'm your host,Valerie Friedlander, ICF
certified coach, sociologist,intersectional feminist artist,
mom and nerd. Today we aretalking about honoring menopause
as a life stage. No, it's notjust a phase to get through. It
(00:22):
is a stage of life that we areentering when we hit, you know,
mid 40s, maybe even earlier. Butbecause it's something new, it's
a new phase of life, we want togive it some room and actually
know about it. So we are talkingabout this, and I think it's
(00:43):
particularly important to noteit just a couple things before
we dive in. And that is that themedical establishment, while we
have more information, we knowmore about menopause, it is
still really new, and it is notintegrated into our general
(01:03):
knowledge. It's not somethingthat doctors are often deeply
trained in. The dots that needto be connected about all the
different ways that weexperience this transition are
not given the weight and supportthat we need, it's not all
covered or supported by healthinsurance. There's so many
(01:25):
issues, and one of the thingsthat this has caused is it's led
to distrust of the medicalestablishment, which makes
sense. A lot of the pusheswithin that field have to do
with health insurance, and whatthe health insurance industry
dictates as covered and notcovered, what is valued, as far
(01:49):
as studies go, what money goesinto, basically, and what is
valued in our society, andfrankly, Once women pass the
baby producing stage. We're notvalued, so money's not put
there, so there isn't a lot ofsupport and information. And
this has led to things like theMaHA movement, which has taken
(02:12):
things quite off the rails.
Maha, if you don't know, standsfor Make America healthy again.
And John Oliver did a reallygreat episode recently on The
Last Week Tonight Show on Mahaso I encourage you to check that
out, because he really gets intosome of these nuances of, well,
(02:35):
yes, but also this is a problem,this approach or this direction
where we don't trust scienceanymore, not just the medical
industry, and we're pushingthese things that aren't
actually backed by anything andeven harmful to people. So
anyway, go check out thatepisode. It's linked in the show
(02:56):
notes. And the other aspect isthat stress plays a large role
in our experience of this shiftin our bodies, and so the people
who experience the greatestamount of stress due to systemic
oppression experience the mostchallenge when it comes to this
(03:22):
shift in our bodies, and so it'sreally important that we
advocate. Heather Mauer, who isthe CEO of the National
Association of nursepractitioners in women's health,
joined me in a conversation awhile back on advancing
collaborative leadership fromboardroom to patient centered
(03:42):
caregiving, and she talks aboutthat advocacy for herself, but
also the dynamics of privilegewithin that and so I recommend
checking that out, because Ithink the more privileges we
have within the system, the moreimportant We push using whatever
we have access to to expandunderstanding, to advocate for
(04:07):
the dots that need to beconnected, being connected, for
the coverage to be there, forthe support to be there, because
that does have a ripple effect.
When we say we need thisinformation and this needs to be
valued. That is part of thereason why we have the
information that we have now,for example, another thing that
(04:27):
I linked in the show notes is anarticle from NPR where doctors
are urging the FDA to removewarnings on the hormone therapy
for menopause, which issomething that Heather talks
about in our interview. So, andthat was before that had
actually happened, but it was,it was that advocacy. So these
(04:47):
are things that we really needto give room for, and so
recognizing there is a rippleeffect from when we give
ourselves. Else, space torecognize, no, this isn't just a
phase, and this is somethingthat deserves attention. We
deserve care, and that starts topush into more care, right? We
(05:12):
deserve care when you give careto yourself and you recognize
that is valuable. You arevaluable at all the phases and
stages of your life, and so areother women and other human
beings, right? It ripplesoutward. So I thought it was
really important that we take alook at honoring menopause as a
(05:36):
life stage. And to do that, Iinvited marelda Rodriguez to
join me in this conversation.
Some of the things that we talkabout in this episode are
experiencing grief, in physicaltransitions, societal norms,
gaps in information, becoming anadvocate for yourself. Health
and self care look different indifferent phases of life and
(06:01):
slowing down and making room tolearn your new body. I know that
you're going to love thisconversation. I'm so excited to
share it with you. If you havequestions or you have comments
or you have stories you wouldlike to share, I invite you to
reach out. There are a number ofdifferent ways to do that. They
(06:22):
are all linked in the shownotes. So please, I would love
to hear from you if you arelooking for support in
navigating transitions, moreelders, information is linked in
the show notes, as is mine. Soplease reach out. You deserve
care and you deserve support.
And now, without further ado,let's get started.
(06:54):
Welcome Marelda. I'm so excitedto have you. Thank you so much
for joining me.
Marelda Rodrigues (06:58):
Thank you so much, Valerie.
Valerie Friedlander (07:00):
All right, so let's start with if you could
just introduce yourself a littlebit to everybody listening.
Marelda Rodrigues (07:09):
Sure. I will start by saying that the impetus
for wellness for women has takena very sharp turn for immediate
so if anybody is sitting by thewayside, sitting on the outside
looking in today's conversation,my hope is that it'll change
(07:29):
that. And where I'm coming fromis combining my years and
wellness as what started out asmassage therapist becoming a
functional medicine healthcoach, becoming a sleep science
coach, and now becoming aspecialist in menopause and
really understanding the gravityof the things we do not have in
(07:50):
place that need to be in placeimmediately.
Valerie Friedlander (07:55):
Yeah, I'm so excited to talk about this,
because I know so many peoplewho listen, who are going
through or heading towards thattransition. So I think this is
this will probably launch usinto that, what is something
that you once took for grantedthat you have since unlearned?
Marelda Rodrigues (08:17):
Wow. So I will start by saying that,
because I come from a family ofthat has a lot of chronic
disease like diabetes, highblood pressure, high cholesterol
and all of these chronicconditions. When I was in my 30s
and I was just embarking on thiswellness professional journey I
(08:42):
just did. I I would say tomyself, I do not want to be like
the people in my family. I don'tcare what they say about
genetics, but I'm going to notbe like them, because I saw the
progression of these chronicdiseases, so when they were in
the elderly stage, how it reallyravaged the body. And I was
like, Nope, no, thank you. Andso I thought I was doing really
(09:07):
well. And I thought, hey, Idon't, you know, I eat for my
microbio. I I'm reallyparticular about my gut health.
Now, did I have some setbacks?
Yes, but they weren't thatdifficult to correct along the
way, and then I hit menopause,and I just, like a lot of women,
just thought, hey, you knowwhat? It's the end of periods.
(09:29):
Let me celebrate. I actuallygave away multiple packets of
sanitary napkins to a friend ofmine. I said, Here you go. I
don't need this anymore, and I'mgoing to celebrate, right? And
that's where I thought it endedside by side. I had all these
new aches and pains and thingshappening along the way, and I
(09:52):
thought, as a massage therapist,I can't even explain where these
are coming from. So these are.
Strange. So it just, you know,was strange, but what I learned
going forward and this year hasbeen a real challenge. Mind you,
I'm about to turn 58 andmenopause for me was 51 So seven
(10:14):
years of craziness that Ifinally figured out this year
were all attributed tomenopause. And one of the
biggest things was, while Iprided myself as never being
diabetic, one of the firstsymptoms I had was not diabetes,
but what's actually calledinsulin resistance, and slightly
(10:35):
different than diabetes, wherethe body doesn't receive glucose
like it's supposed to, asopposed to diabetes, where
you're just not producing thehormone that can deal with it.
Here, it's just a littledifferent. You have the hormone,
but it's just not workingcorrectly, and that's because
there's a certain amount ofdisruption in the reproductive
(10:58):
hormones that are creating thisnew confusion in the body.
That's what I had to unlearn, isthat I can be the bestest at my
nutrition and my microbiome andall these fabulous things, but
to suddenly come across the butyou don't have estrogen. So what
are you going to do, and then tofall into the very bucket I was
(11:24):
happily coasting along going, Idon't have that was, I would
say, by far the biggest. Well,what are you talking about?
Well, but what do you mean?
Yeah, but I, but I, but I, and Icouldn't come up with an
explanation.
Valerie Friedlander (11:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, it's, it's so interesting.
We I'm really grateful that thishas become much more of a topic.
Now there is more information.
People are finally studyingwomen's bodies and trying to
understand stuff and that, Ithink that's great. And what I
tend to hear when people aretalking about menopause, it is
(12:01):
kind of along the lines of whatwhat you said about like, I
don't understand. This isstrange. This is strange. This
is strange. And while, okay, nowthere's a little bit more
information, but it's it, westill seem to be caught up in
like, either you know, this isstrange, complaining about it,
making jokes about it, or, youknow, striving to find
(12:24):
information which is is at leasthelpful. What I don't hear
people talking much about, andwe chatted a little bit about
this before we were recording,is the embodied experience of
it, like being with it, and it'suncomfortable, like I get, you
know, talk all the time aboutlike, being with the
uncomfortable emotions, likebeing with those parts that we
(12:45):
otherwise, we just kind of tryand shove away, and we try and
go, Okay, good. And we're like,focused on getting through I
just want to get through it. Iwant to get to the other side.
Just numb me out till I can getto the other side of it, like I
just want to get through. Andone of the things that you
talked about with the theembodied experience is also the
(13:07):
This isn't something you getthrough. You never get to post
menopause. That's not That's nota thing. And I'd love for you to
share a little bit more aboutthat embodied and being with
experience as well as the thisisn't something to get through.
Marelda Rodrigues (13:29):
And let me start with a couple of facts
that have added or initiatedthese problems. The first thing
is that right until 1993 womenwere not even considered as
subjects in studies. And soimagine not even being included
(13:55):
because you were consideredproblematic. You had a period,
then we had to worry about yourmood, and we didn't know if you
could be in the study and allthis was going on. So they would
study men, who they consideredmore stable participants.
Really, it wasn't a whole lot ofdata on women to the point where
even something as common as aheart attack in a woman was not
(14:19):
even identified correctly,because the data we had was pain
in the left arm, whereas womentend to have more pain in the
back. And this is what happenedthe day my mom died, and I want
to make a real impact statementhere, because she went to my dad
and asked him to massage herback. She was like, okay, and
(14:42):
she didn't have much time, theheart attack took over, took her
by the end of the day. So youknow, a lot of my journey in
menopause has been revisitingall the symptoms that she had
and how we did not have data,and how she was also made to.
Feel bad, maybe unintentionally,by the men around her, whether
(15:03):
it was my dad not knowing how tohelp her, the doctors not
knowing anything. Doesn'tmatter, like which country
you're in. And then whatexacerbated the whole thing is
there was a study that wasmisinterpreted providing women
with hormonal support. I believethat was in 2002 where then
(15:25):
everybody shut down because itwas associated with giving women
breast cancer and so much wasnot right study. And this left a
whole generation of women, ifyou think, from 2002 onwards,
they stopped the conversation.
And now you have women, I'mtalking to women in their late
(15:45):
60s or 70s that are asking mequestions that perimenopausal
women are asking me because theydidn't have it. And they're
going, what this is, this ismenopause, really. But what's
making it confusing to them isthey're thinking, Oh, it's just
high blood pressure, oh, it'sjust incontinence, oh, I'm
(16:05):
aging. And there is so much thatcan be done in the
perimenopausal stage. And soit's, you know, it's one of
those things. When do you startstart learning about menopause
in your 30s. When is the nextbest time to start, if you're
past that, is today. Yeah. Andso you talked a little bit about
(16:28):
embodiment and women reallyembracing this. And you know,
the whole medical model we havein place is a pill for an ill
and this was coined by DrJeffrey bland, who is considered
the godfather of functionalmedicine. And the pill for an
(16:49):
ill concept is very much howchronic diseases are treated.
Oh, you got high blood pressure,here's a pill you got
incontinence, here's a pillyou've got high cholesterol,
here's a pill, you've gotanything, here's a pill or
here's a procedure. And whatwe've had to go back to is even
(17:09):
understanding what is the rootcause. Why are you feeling this
way? When are you feeling thisway? Is it consistent? Is it
sometimes? And as a massagetherapist, I have people coming
in saying, I want deep tissuebecause that's their pill for
the ill. Yeah, I don't even knowwhat's going on in your body.
Like, what if deep tissue is notthe thing? So tell me what's
(17:32):
going on so I can use myexpertise instead of you coming
and saying, Give me thepainkiller. And I'm like, but
it's the wrong painkiller. Ihave something better for you.
And one of the things that Ifind with women is that they
feel that asking for help orreceiving help is a ding against
(17:56):
them. You know, they're capablemoms. They're career women.
They're, you know, used tomanaging multiple projects, and
they don't need help. They canfigure it out menopause is
actually a better experience asa communal experience, is what I
have found, and it is also aexperience that requires you to
(18:21):
pause and have a real sit downmeeting with Mother Nature. It
is not about what you're capableof. It is not about whether you
want to receive, whether youknow. Do you can you find it on
Google. Can you find it on chat?
(18:41):
GPT? Can you create an AI modelto solve your problems? You
know, it is not about that. Itis not about intelligence, or, I
should say, intellectualintelligence. It's about body
intelligence. Yeah, and if youhave never operated, if you have
operated, as I call it, abovethe neck, suddenly learning to
(19:07):
tap into body intelligence isnot going to come easily, and it
has absolutely nothing to dowith your capabilities. How many
degrees you have, how manychildren you have, how many what
size of responsibility you haveanywhere it's all about. Do you
know how to manage your innerself from an in you know, I talk
(19:31):
about the five bodies,physically, emotionally,
mentally, spiritually andenergetically? Yeah, that's the
embodiment. Because none of it,you know, even when I say
mentally, I'm I'm looking at notjust your thoughts, but also, is
your actual brain organ workingcorrectly?
Valerie Friedlander (19:55):
Yeah, well, and I love that you brought up
the community component.
Because, you know, I. Thinkabout these, these major
transitions that women's bodiesgo through. Now we move into
fertility, get our period andour body develops in a
particular way, right for that,and then we move out of
fertility as you know, we couldput it in, you know, we have the
(20:19):
the child woman, crone phases ofour life. And I think, I guess I
wonder. I haven't, I haven'texplored this a whole lot, but I
do wonder if people engage thisphase, this similar to like that
this transition, similar to theway they experienced an earlier
(20:41):
transition. And I know that alot of people while at least
when I was growing up, there wasa little bit more conversation.
I've had conversations withother parents who have female
children whose friends never gotstill aren't getting talked to
about getting their period.
(21:02):
They're still not getting thoseconversations. And I know with
my mother, she made a point oftrying to, trying to build a
level of ritual into when I gotmy first period of like this,
like honoring this, thistransition, or allowing some
room for that shift in my life,in my in my body. Now, you know,
(21:27):
I mean, this was like, not, notsomething that was super
familiar, so I wouldn't say thatthere was a lot of like
attention to what's happening inmy body, like there was still a
lot of disconnect. I am one ofthose people who only relatively
recently, maybe the past decadeor so, has started like paying
more attention to coming downfrom the head into the rest of
(21:48):
the body and going, what'shappening here? But I do, I
wonder, because that's ourexperience. Well, you just get
through it. You just, you hideit, you you try not to. You
know, don't let anybody knowyou're on your period. Like, Oh,
it's embarrassing. Oh, you know,blood, you know it's treated in
this way. And then here we havemenopause, while more people are
talking about it, there's stillnot a how do we experience it?
(22:12):
How do we honor this shift?
Because I know change, there'salways a piece of grief in
change, in transition. I'mcurious what you have noticed in
that facet in your work. Itseems like a natural transition
to go from that that griefmassage and that embodied
experience, you know what ishappening in your body, asking
(22:34):
those questions and knowing thegrief process into this period
and the grief that goes into atransition.
Marelda Rodrigues (22:47):
I'll address that by first of all, taking,
like, maybe a few steps back.
I'm pretty sure I'm really newto many of your listeners. I was
working more actively in thegrief space, starting in 2019 as
massage therapist, and had asituation with a client that led
me down the path of creatinggrief massage, my version of it
(23:10):
still a relatively unknownmodality, and I realized early
on that I could Only massage somany people. So I knew that
educating other massagetherapists was going to be
important. Now, while I was inthat space, I also created
wellness plans for people thatare grieving because your
(23:32):
appetite Takes a Dip, yourstress goes up, your sleep goes
out the window. You're notmoving your body, all these
pieces come unglued, and itmakes for suffering to go up, so
helping Grievers bring sufferingunder control by implementing
wellness plans was where I wasfocused. Until this year when I
(23:57):
attended a menopause event, andthe term menopause grief came
up, and I it just hit me likeanother ton of breaks, like it
did back in 2019 just griefmassage hit me like a ton of
breaks. And what I realized isthere are a couple different
(24:18):
terms, and I've learned them indifferent arenas, in my daily
learning activities andexploring other topics around
grief as well. One is bodygrief. And body grief is when
you have any diagnosis, whetherit's an autoimmune condition,
whether it is cancer, whether itis a skin condition that is
(24:44):
going to be chronic, whateverthe diagnosis is, and the grief
comes from one, losing health,and two, feeling like you're
losing control of your body and.
So just like I was saying, Itried to keep my health under
(25:04):
control, and here I am withinsulin resistance that is
menopause related. Totally Ican't control the estrogen,
right? It is. It is what it is.
And so did I feel just confusedand bewildered. We'll use those
terms. When the doctor was like,Yeah, you know, I'm just going
to confirm what you werethinking in insulin resistance.
And I was like, Oh, well, howdoes this happen? Right? So
(25:28):
there's a body grief, becauseyou're feeling out of control
with the things you're alreadydoing, and the spaghetti is not
sticking on the wall, whereas itused to before, and then you
have what's called menopause,grief, which is fraught with so
many life changes. Now you're inthe stage of your life where
(25:49):
you're a caregiver to yourparents. You are an empty
nester. You are maybe shiftingin your relationship with your
spouse or significant other. Youmay be shifting in your career
and going, I don't want to dothis anymore. I work too many
hours and I'm exhausted and Idon't want it. I just don't want
it. And also, you're like, I'mso tired, or I'm not in the
(26:13):
mood, or I'm screaming ateveryone, and I don't even
scream, and I don't know how toexplain this thing in my body.
So that comes with a anotherloss of control. So once again,
we're speaking loss, notbereavement, loss, but loss of
control, loss of the freedomwith the beautiful health you
(26:34):
may have had that was on point,because it matched everything
you put into it, right? I I didmy cardio, I did my this, I did
my that. I would say some of themenopause grief is also or even
body grief can come out of likeheart disease, which goes up
when estrogen declines. So it's,how do you get educated? How do
(26:57):
you accept that this is yourpath until you leave the planet?
And you know, also addressingthis what I call the other ring,
and the other ring is saying,Oh, I passed menopause a long
time ago. And what women arereferring to is what I call the
(27:19):
textbook definition. Like, whenyou haven't had a period for 12
months, you're 365 days withouta period, and on the 366 day in
just one day, you're menopausal,you're in menopause, and then
you're considered postmenopause, but it's still
menopause. We don't just walkaround saying, I'm cured. You're
(27:41):
now going to deal with mostlysilent things that come undone,
whether it's like for me, I hadhip pain that I was walking
around going, what is this hippain from? And I didn't even
know how to address it, becauseno one could tell me what the
origin is, and if we're justgoing to physically, you know,
(28:01):
do physical therapy, what are weexactly working on? Because I
want to know where it came from.
Is it going to stick around? Ismy effort for path A, or is my
effort for path B? So I want toknow and just othering by saying
(28:22):
I'm not this, I'm that. And I'mhearing this now from even women
in what we call pre menopause,which is before perimenopause,
who are in their 30s, andsaying, I'm not there yet and
I'm like, you don't have to bethere, but you do have to be
educated, because some of theseperimenopausal symptoms happen
four to 10 years before they'resilent for the most part, or
(28:48):
nobody's talking about them. Iremember in my 40s, when I was
perimenopausal, all I couldthink of because I'm so in tune
with my body in terms of thesensations and the feelings. And
I I remember saying to some ofmy friends, oh my gosh, like in
my 40s, I have no idea why everysingle period was worse than the
(29:11):
month before. And you wouldthink I've experienced in this.
I've had a period since I was11. I mean, I'm experienced in
this. Why can I not handle aperiod in my 40s? What is going
on? Do you know, even when I hit50, and to this day, three
(29:31):
doctors that I've been to whilethey're considered good doctors
in women's health, not one ofthem has had a menopause
conversation. Connected any ofmy symptoms to menopause or told
me how to go forward. And I donot believe, as a health coach
that we should be uneducated. Ihave spent years educating
(29:55):
people as massage therapists asto why they have dysfunction and
pain patterns. Their body. I amjust shifting these why is it
happening? Where is the origin?
Let's connect the dots, andlet's create a plan, and let's
create a framework before youneed it. So that way, all you
have to do is practice in yournew body and execute what you
(30:15):
know. And I believe that puttingwomen on this path is going to
create less confusion, less talkabout symptoms, more talk about
empowered execution. What do Ido? Okay, I felt the hot flash.
Here's what I gotta do, or aheadof the hot flash, or the night
(30:37):
sweats or the disrupted sleep,or the hip pain or the frozen
shoulder. I have massagetherapists who have no idea.
Neither did I. I had frozenshoulder in both shoulders. And
as a massage therapist, I justthought it was because I had
moved incorrectly, because I'mgoing okay, the origin is an
improper movement, and themuscle got mad, only to now be
(30:59):
closer to 58 and find out when Igo back and look at how old I
was, I was perimenopausal. Andso now, when women come in to
see me, I ask them actively, howold are you? Have you had any
other symptoms? Are you seeinganything else? Are any other
(31:22):
joints hurting? Are you havingany other difficulties in
moving, or, you know, stuff likethat, so they can get ahead of
these things.
Valerie Friedlander (31:33):
Yeah, that idea of learning how to listen
to your new body and engage thisshift in your body as you were,
as you were saying the wordmenopause. I was like, how
appropriate that the second partof that word is pause. Okay,
it's time to pause. And insteadof just attacking the symptoms,
(31:58):
let's look at what's theunderlying facets here so that
we can care for those. And Ioften will talk about, okay, we
get really stressed that it'sstress increases, the suffering
increases when we're trying tocontrol things that we don't
have control over. And what doesit look like if we stop trying
(32:19):
to control it and start tryingto care for it, like now we need
to nurture and care for this newbody. And in thinking about if I
could go back in time and carefor myself as I headed into
womanhood, as you know, likeunderstanding my body's ability
(32:39):
to reproduce and like the thingsI needed to do to take care of
myself and protect myself andkeep myself well in this new
body that had shifted, whatwould I want for myself, then
that I could give to myself nowin this transition as An adult
(32:59):
person who has more ability todo things and make choices and
ask for stuff as an adult personwho who can advocate for myself
asking those questions that youwere saying about just Okay, so
what is this tied to? What? Whatis this additional to? And it
seems so. It does seem soconfusing, though, like, well,
(33:22):
if I, if I broke my leg, thatwould that's just a thing, but
maybe it's like, Why did I getoff balance? What were the
corresponding things to thatexperience? That's like, an
isolated thing, but it's notbecause if I broke my leg, I'm
going to walk differently. Andif I'm walking differently,
(33:42):
that's going to change othermuscles and how they're
compensating, and that's goingto shift these other things,
and, oh, I might not be movingmy body as much because I can't
walk on that leg for a time. Andwhat does that do for how I need
to eat, and what other things Icould do to make sure that I'm
(34:05):
getting the physical engagementand activity and not falling out
of the things that are nurturingfor me just while this other
part of me is healing it so itmakes me think like we can't
just take any of those inisolation, they're always either
the root is somewhere else orand, or the impact has more, a
(34:32):
more holistic spread to it thanjust that one thing, just that
frozen shoulder, just that notHaving a period anymore, just
that, you know, like whatever,whatever that is, is what comes
to mind for me, I wonder when itcomes to those things, like you
mentioned a few times, the ideaof having kind of a plan for
(34:55):
yourself. What does that looklike?
Marelda Rodrigues (34:59):
The first piece is really understanding
the journey. Like, if you wereto visit a destination, like,
let's say we were going to go toAlaska, we would look at how to
get there. What's on the ground?
Who's our tour guide? Where arethe hotels? What is this? What
is that? How much is it? Is itwithin the budget? Could we
(35:22):
squeeze in a little excursionhere? You know, what other do we
experience food differently?
Will we be walking a lot? Whatare we going to be doing? So we
spend more time on planning thisvacation to Alaska than even
getting to know what menopauseis. So just start there with,
(35:42):
okay, the destination ismenopause. This is the
destination you will be. This isthe country you will be for the
rest of your life. Once you hitit, once you once your plane
lands, it's like HotelCalifornia. You can you can
never leave. Okay, that's thebest way I can say it. You will
never leave. So you might aswell learn how you're going to
(36:04):
lay down your roots. Like, canyou lay down your roots? Do you
go to the left side? Do you goto the right side? Do you just
spin around three times? What isthe general pathway? Now, a lot
of it is not exactly talkedabout, so it's still coming out
of the shadows, if you will.
Right now, doctors aren't eventrained in menopause. They get
(36:25):
about maybe six hours ofmenopause training for one of
the most important phases for awoman's life. And I'm talking
about GYN. I'm not talking aboutlike your GP or your
cardiologist. I'm talking aboutthe actual people involved in
women's reproductive healtharen't trained. They're trained
(36:45):
ad nauseam, for getting on thepill, dealing with pregnancies,
reach pregnancies, Cesareans,postpartum, Nah, you know, I
don't know how much postpartumas well, but there's a certain
amount of knowledge theremenopause, not some alchemy. And
then if you shut down theconversations after 2002 and you
(37:06):
are only now reopening them,imagine how much you have to
scrape through. Say this isgarbage. And then this is what
actually happens. Now we'refinding more data, details,
protocols can be made aroundthis new information. And so
this is why I said earlier, thewomen in their 30s who say to
(37:29):
me, Oh, I'm not there yet, orthe women who just come into 40
going, give me a minute. I justgot here. I'm like, You're
already late. You are alreadylate, being on time is actually
between 35 to 40, or even 32 to35 the education of it. And I
know that this is kind of goingto come with the pushback of,
(37:52):
why are you hurrying theexperience of menopause onto
people? I'm really not. I'msounding the fact that we are
already late, and I'm creatingan opportunity for the women
that are coming up in their 30sto not have to be in their
(38:13):
symptoms or the especially thesilent ones, like osteoporosis,
high blood cholesterol, thecreep up of blood pressure,
random pains, the precursors ofAlzheimer's or dementia. These
are the things that happensilently and there is a lot to
be done to stay in a space thatgives you more health freedom.
(38:39):
That gives you what we callhealth span. Like, it doesn't
matter if you're 105 and that'syour lifespan, why would you
want to be 105 and miserable orin terrible health? Right? So we
want to speak in health span.
Valerie Friedlander (38:58):
Yeah, I tend to be, tend to be resistant
to the idea of being late. And Ihear what you're saying there,
though, because we we think Idon't want to have to deal with
this until I get there. But one,it's not like a today I'm in it
and tomorrow, you know, or todayI'm not in it tomorrow. It's a
(39:20):
gradual thing that we don'talways see, and we are so busy,
like there's so many societalfactors that are constantly
pulling our attention that wetend to get caught up in what
feels urgent. So placing acertain amount of urgency behind
this makes sense to me, becausethat's what we are conditioned
(39:44):
to pay attention to, only ifit's urgent, and it's like no,
this is urgent. Your well being,your health, is urgent. It
deserves care. It's worthy ofattention. It's worthy of care.
And I think that is a placewhere a lot of women. Our goal
of they focus on everybody elseand not on their own care. But
(40:05):
how do you care for others? Ifyou know the whole oxygen mask
thing, right? But it's verycliche. But the other thing is
that it's really important tonote, like you were saying about
the doctors and stuff, we arenot considered societally
valuable once we can't producechildren, there's a fundamental
narrative around that that toresist it means prioritizing our
(40:33):
health, putting urgency behindour care and behind this
transition that we've beentaught to kind of demonize. You
know, to complain about, to beupset about, to to suffer with
instead of going, No, this ispart of my life. I'm still
valuable once I hit that point.
And I'm going to treat it likeit's value. I'm going to treat
(40:54):
it like it's my vacation. I lovethat you framed it that way,
because, like, I'm heading to goon this vacation, and it's going
to be this journey, this epicjourney of this phase of my
life. And I'm going to planaccordingly, because I'm worth
planning for this, because myhealth and my well being are
worth it. I want to shout thatout to everybody who's
(41:17):
listening. We have to putcertain amounts of urgency
behind these things, becauseotherwise we just don't pay
attention to them. And you areworth that attention. You are
worth treating urgently, even ifthe rest of the society is not
going to treat us urgently, youare worth treating urgently. So
I really appreciate that. Howcan people get more from you?
(41:41):
Because you mentioned the wholecommunity thing, I know that's
something that is in process foryou, because we need that space
to uplift the fact that wedeserve the care, because in our
own heads, it's so easy to getsucked back into what we've been
conditioned with. So where canpeople find you? Tell us a
little bit about what's comingfor you that we can connect with
(42:03):
and learn more so we're moreprepared.
Marelda Rodrigues (42:09):
A lot of my spaces are still in where people
would find me for grief, whichisn't a bad thing, necessarily,
but I have new resources comingthat are by the time, depending
on when people are listening tothis podcast, are either in the
initial stage or going to be inthe full of information stage.
(42:30):
But people can find me throughmy new iteration, which is
called Sovereign becoming, whereI teach women how to become self
governing and come out of thathiding and thinking they're not
worthy, and thinking they shouldnot be asking for help, thinking
(42:51):
that health is to be overriddenbecause they don't come first.
Sovereign becoming is my handlepretty much everywhere. So right
now, I would say Instagram, andI also have an online community,
and I can certainly share thelink with you where I am taking
(43:12):
women through different aspectsof not just the physical pieces
of menopause. So I'm talkingabout sleep and I'm talking
about other changes in the body,but I'm also talking about the
griefs that I mentioned earlier.
I'm also talking about wherethey are tolerating things they
(43:32):
should not be tolerating, andhow to overcome these and still
feel whole and worthy. So ifpeople just want to know what
I'm about, they can go to myInstagram, sovereign becoming
handle, and if they want to bethe person that says I need the
help, or I'm the person thatwants to plan my whole journey
(43:56):
and have most on my side, thenthe online community is also
available.
Valerie Friedlander (44:06):
Awesome.
Thank you so much for that, andI'm excited to share it just a
note for everyone. It will be inthe show notes, as always all
the links, so definitely checkthose out. And as we wrap up, I
like to ask two questions. Oneis, what does it mean to you to
be unlimited?
Marelda Rodrigues (44:25):
For me, unlimited is where I do not have
to pay any attention to myresources, how I feel or how I
move in the world, to me that'sunlimited. That is expansive. It
(44:46):
feels expansive to almost thesoul level.
Valerie Friedlander (44:52):
Yeah, yeah.
And when you want to tap intothat expansive feeling, what
song do you listen to?
Marelda Rodrigues (45:00):
The song that has inspired me ever since I
heard it. For years. Now I don'teven know how old both the song
is, probably at least a decadeand a half. So is the song
unwritten by Natasha Bedingfield.
Valerie Friedlander (45:13):
Awesome.
Well, I will have that added tothe unlimited podcast playlist
so everybody can check that out.
Thank you so much for joiningme. Marelda, I really appreciate
you.
Marelda Rodrigues (45:26):
Thank you so much. Valerie, this was so
wonderful. Thank you again.
Valerie Friedlander (45:30):
Thank you so much for listening. I really
appreciate you being here, and Ihope you got something out of
this episode. If you did, Iwould love it. If you would
share it with a friend, give ita like a review. Certain
platforms are easier to do thaton others, but it really does
help me be more findable toother folks. So please take a
(45:51):
moment to do that, if you would.
And if you have questions, sometopic that you'd like me to
cover, or a comment about theepisode or the show in general,
I'd love to hear from you. Thereare links in the show notes to
reach out, and I will talk toyou all next time.
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