October 8, 2025 • 50 mins
This episode features Shawn and Lauren emphasizing that the ultimate mission of the church is not just salvation, but the celestial kingdom and exaltation.
The core principle discussed is that the temple is "more imperative than the mission". While missionary work is vital, the eternal perspective places a greater focus on what individuals will do in the temple for their own souls. The hosts note that church culture often prioritizes mission preparation over temple preparation, partly due to the sacred nature of the temple making it less openly discussed.
The episode delves into the profound difference between:
• Salvation: Defined by overcoming the "great dilemma." This dilemma arises from two eternal laws: "no unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God", and "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God". Without divine intervention, this means no one can return to God's presence. Jesus Christ provides the "good news" (the meaning of "gospel") to overcome this. Salvation is achieved through faith, repentance, baptism, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, leading to being "at one" with God again, overcoming both physical and spiritual death (separation). Salvation is a gift available to all who accept Christ, even those who inherit terrestrial or telestial kingdoms.
• Exaltation: This is a distinct and higher goal than salvation, directly tied to the temple. It cannot be achieved without the ordinances and covenants of the temple, specifically five additional covenants received during the endowment, and ultimately, the sealing covenant. Exaltation is defined by the "continuation of lives," "eternal lives," and "glory added upon their heads forever and ever". This means progressing to become like God by becoming a creator and continuing to create life, not just for oneself but also for one's posterity.
The episode encourages missionaries and members to focus on preparing for and understanding temple covenants as the most effective way to prepare for a mission and to help others embark on their own path to exaltation. The joy of missionary work, they conclude, comes from sharing this "good news" and helping others make covenants that lead to this ultimate potential as children of God.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_03 (00:00):
The mission of the church is not salvation.
It is the celestial kingdom andexaltation.
That's the mission of thechurch.
Everything we do is to drive usto celestial kingdom,
exaltation.
All right, we're back.
(00:25):
Mission Prep Series podcast.
How exciting.
And Lauren's with us again.
Hey, Lauren.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
What's up?
SPEAKER_03 (00:31):
You just spent some time in Utah.
You're back.
You went to general conference,didn't you?
SPEAKER_00 (00:34):
Yes.
Two sessions, actually.
SPEAKER_03 (00:36):
Let's just say on the count of three, because
there's a consensus in theentire world.
On the count of three, whichtalk was the best and how
amazing was it?
On the count of three, one, two,three.
Sister Runia.
That talk was so powerful.
It was so good.
It was so, so gospel of JesusChrist at its core.
(00:58):
core and at its basics.
That's what I loved about ElderHolland when I first was younger
and he became an apostle.
Every time he talked, it waslike, this guy gets just the
core basic simplicity, right?
When Nephi, or who was it, Alma,that says, I glory in plainness
or in directness or whatever.
I just love that he coulddeliver such concise, clear,
(01:19):
like, oh, I get it.
And Sister Rania's talk wasthat.
It was so clear.
spiritually powerful and just atthe root of the wisdom of
eternal truth.
So today, this is a principlefrom our class that we teach.
It's the last one.
It's the very last one I teachbecause I think it's a perfect
(01:41):
transition to missionaries whoare now, they've caught the
fire.
They've got their callings.
They're super excited.
And then I hit them with thismessage and it both confuses
them and shocks them.
But I feel like this is aperfect transition principle to
end the classes on, my serieson, because A, it's practical,
(02:01):
and B, I don't know why, but wedon't talk about this like this
as much as I wish we would.
It was really refreshing thatfor the past three years in
General Conference, Elder Oaksand our prophet both focused on
this message and nothing butthis message.
And they did it with suchclarity that it was just
(02:23):
exciting.
So this principle is calledtemple more imperative than the
mission.
In other words, you listenerswho are preparing for your
mission, the message is this.
Your mission is awesome.
It's so exciting.
Like you're so lucky.
You're so blessed.
(02:43):
And it's really important.
Start getting ready for it.
But it is in your eternalperspective, it is nothing
compared to what you will do inthe temple of the Lord.
Nothing.
It means nothing compared towhat you, for your own soul,
will do in the temple of theLord.
And so for a handful of reasons,focus on the temple.
(03:06):
Don't focus as much on themission.
If you focus on the temple,there's no better way or thing
that will prepare you for yourmission.
I don't know, Lauren, do yousee, for some reason, the
culture of the church is alittle backwards in that sense,
right?
You're young kids, we get ourcallings, we're excited, right?
but we build up the mission andit's like, oh, by the way, get
(03:27):
your temple endowments out.
Go make some covenants that arefor your eternal exaltation, by
the way.
Do you feel like that's been howit is?
SPEAKER_00 (03:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
Why
SPEAKER_03 (03:35):
do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
I don't...
Well, partially, maybe I couldthink that part of it has to do
with the temple and its sacrednature.
People...
especially younger people don'tknow where to draw the line
between what to talk about andwhat not to talk about.
I know personally for me, Inever took like a temple prep
class or anything like that.
And so, but I did take missionprep.
(03:59):
And so I think people talk moreabout and focus more on things
that they're comfortable withand that the temple going
through for your first time andjust in its sacred nature is
kind of an unknown, but themission is so widely talked
about, so shared and universal.
And so I think it's a little bitmore of a safe space for people.
I
SPEAKER_03 (04:20):
love that you mentioned that.
And the first part of, well,maybe because we keep it there,
it is sacred, not secret, butsacred.
We don't know how to talk aboutthat.
There is, I want to recommend apodcast episode called called
Leading Saints.
Leading Saints.
Let's see, who is it?
(04:42):
Yeah, Leading Saints.
Frank Kirkham, I think, is hisname.
Yeah, Frank Kirkham.
And he had on his podcast,Leading Saints, a man called
Anthony Sweat.
Go look it up.
It's on YouTube.
I have never heard anyone talkabout the temple more
effectively than Anthony Sweat.
he wrote books on it, I think,and he does podcasts is kind of
(05:03):
what he does, but talking aboutwhat is sacred and what is
secret versus, you know, whatcan you talk about?
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:09):
Excellent.
So anyway, just wanted to plugthat real quick.
Okay.
So that's a good reason, but forwhatever reason, the culture is
that way a little bit.
Do you agree?
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_03 (05:17):
Yeah.
And so my message in thisprinciple or in the class is
that's not right.
And the whole class, we get intothis deep, amazing spiritual
doctrinal discussion and, aboutone thing, and it's about this.
What is the difference betweensalvation and exaltation?
(05:38):
And I love having a room full of16, 17, 18, 19-year-olds and ask
that question.
The eyes glaze over.
It's true.
There's no answer.
There's no answer.
And it surprises me because it'ssuch a beautiful and fundamental
part of the gospel of JesusChrist.
(05:59):
And it just surprises me that wedon't know it very much.
So anyway, it's a great timedoing this lesson because it's
amazing to see their eyes justlight up and go, whoa, this is
powerful stuff.
So that's what we're going totry and do today.
But first I want to share aquick story.
So when I had made the decisionto go on a mission, really I
made the decision to go up onthe mountaintop behind my
parents' house, kneel down andask God if he lived.
(06:21):
and if Christ lived, and if theBook of Mormon was true and the
Bible was true, and if JosephSmith was a prophet.
And I didn't get the answer Iwanted.
I didn't get any answer, and Iwas super disappointed.
But this swelling in my heartand the desire that I had
walking down that mountain to goback down and read the
scriptures, feast upon the wordsof Christ and start praying was
the beginning of such animportant journey for me to
eventually get those revelationsand answers.
(06:43):
half of these answers camewithin a temple.
So anyway, through that process,I started getting excited about
my mission.
Then my mission call comes tothe Ukraine Donetsk mission.
I'm super excited.
And now I'm on this path of I'mreading, I'm praying, I've got
my call.
So at the time, my dad, who wasthe greatest, I love my dad, he
(07:04):
had a neighbor and a friend whohe had hired at his work, this
man named Ed Jesperson.
Now, Lorne, I'm going to tellyou about this epic man, Ed
Jesperson.
Ed was like six foot three orfour, big tall dude, older guy.
He was from New York.
And he was the first stakepresident way back when in
(07:24):
Brooklyn.
So he has like story.
He has like his, and this dudehad a deep New York accent and
he kind of was real lively andhe shook when he talked.
Just an amazing, amazing guy.
Ed Jesperson, epic, epic guy.
This guy could preach likeamazing.
UNKNOWN (07:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:41):
One day he comes to me, we'd become friends, and he
comes to me and he says,Shawnee.
What are you laughing at?
That's Ed Jesperson.
He says, Shawnee.
And he starts telling me, thetemple is the most important
thing in your life right now.
And he says, listen, you've gotlike three months before you're
leaving on your mission.
If you'll do it, Shawnee.
(08:01):
He says, I will go with youevery single day to the temple
and let's do a session every dayfor the next three months.
And I was like, what?
I, of course, didn't understandthe power of the temple at that
point.
But I also was like, well, I gota job and I make some money.
So we negotiated.
And I says, how about everyother day?
(08:22):
How about three times a week?
Which was a little overwhelmingto me at the time.
But I was like, well, I don'tknow.
It's Ed and he's awesome.
Okay, so Ed Jesperson and I wentto the temple three days a week
for like two, three months.
And this was the most powerfulexperience Nothing could have,
absolutely nothing could haveprepared me better for a
(08:43):
mission.
To learn what the Spirit is, tolearn how to feel the Spirit, to
learn the doctrines of Christ,and it was life-changing.
And then we would go through asession, and then we'd get into
the celestial room, and Ed wouldsit down with me, and he'd nudge
me, and he'd be like, Shawnee.
I got to tell you what I learnedtoday.
And he'd like talk about thisspiritual, powerful thing.
(09:03):
And I'd just be like eyes open,like, holy cow, we're in this
spiritual place.
And he's, this legend is tellingme about what he learned today.
And then he'd be like, Shawnee,what did you feel and learn?
And eventually I started to openmy heart and mind to be able to
learn that way.
It was so exciting for me.
And it became such a powerfulspiritual thing that I remember
(09:25):
I would, to remind myself, I'dwrite on my hand the word
temple.
to be like, all right, getprepared for it.
Start praying for it because,man, that session two days ago
was amazing.
And I'll never forget because Iwas at work at this restaurant
and I had the word temple.
And this super cute girl who Iworked with nudged me and was
like, what is that?
That kind of got mad at me.
SPEAKER_02 (09:47):
Oh.
SPEAKER_03 (09:47):
Yeah, she got mad at me.
She's like, what the heck isthat?
I'm like, it's just temple.
She's like, come on, dude,that's really disrespectful.
Why would you do that?
I'm like, what do you mean?
She's like, well...
We're here in Utah.
I know you're not a member ofthe church, or at least you're
not an active member of thechurch.
SPEAKER_00 (10:02):
She said that to you?
She
SPEAKER_03 (10:02):
said to me.
I don't know if it's because ofthe way I looked.
I don't know.
I don't know.
And she's like, so, you know,treat that with some respect.
And I'm like, whoa, whoa, backoff.
Back off.
I am an endowed member of thechurch.
I'm going on my mission in twomonths, and I'm just reminding
myself to prepare for thetemple.
And her eyes lit up, and westarted dating.
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
Oh, two months before your mission?
SPEAKER_03 (10:24):
Why not?
SPEAKER_00 (10:24):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (10:25):
Why not?
UNKNOWN (10:27):
What?
SPEAKER_03 (10:27):
Argue against it.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
What?
No.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03 (10:30):
Tell me I was bad.
SPEAKER_00 (10:34):
Go ahead.
Hey, you're going to the templethree times a week.
I can't say anything.
SPEAKER_03 (10:36):
Yeah, and it was fun because I know it wasn't a
serious dating thing, but itbecame such a part of my life.
So anyway, so temple is moreimportant than your mission.
It'll get you prepared for it.
And the concept I want to, like,let's talk about is what I think
is the number one reason why itgets you there, and that's this.
if you understand as amissionary, a preparing
(10:57):
missionary, the differencebetween salvation and
exaltation, it's going to helpyou get there.
So let's just start thatdiscussion.
Yeah.
What do you think?
This is, I don't know.
Cause you're a returnmissionary.
Now, you know, these answers,
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
but I didn't.
SPEAKER_03 (11:12):
Okay.
Let's, let's talk about that.
So in the, like, a year and ahalf ago, two years ago, when
you're sitting in our livingroom and all you kids were doing
the mission prep with me, and Iasked that question, what were
some of the answers that youwould hear from everyone?
What's the difference betweensalvation and exaltation?
Do you remember
SPEAKER_00 (11:28):
anything?
I don't really remember whatothers' answers were, but I
remember sitting there beinglike,
SPEAKER_03 (11:36):
uh...
Did you think it was a dumbquestion back then?
Did you think it was a, wait,wait, I should know this?
Did you feel like you shouldhave known
SPEAKER_00 (11:42):
it?
Yeah, I was like, dang...
I need to start paying moreattention during second hour.
Oh,
SPEAKER_03 (11:47):
I love that.
Clearly a pre-missionary thoughtprocess that you're going to
learn the gospel in second hourof church as opposed to your own
studying.
Okay, we'll start about it alittle bit.
So there's a great, great bookcalled Believing Christ.
SPEAKER_00 (12:05):
Stephen Robinson.
Bam.
SPEAKER_03 (12:07):
I love that you know that.
SPEAKER_00 (12:08):
So good.
SPEAKER_03 (12:08):
And there's a section there where he talks
about the great dilemma.
So let's talk about that alittle bit.
So there's two verses.
So you listeners in the podcast,open up with us.
Moses 6, could you open?
Moses 6, 55 to 57.
And then I'll open up Romans 3,23.
So Stephen Robinson explains howin order to understand the
(12:30):
concept of salvation orexaltation, you really have to
understand this scripturalconcept of this great dilemma
it's never called the greatdilemma but it really is a
perfect word for it why is it agreat dilemma here's why because
there are two eternal truthsthat contradict each other in
such a way that it is absolutelyum devastating to every every
(12:54):
child of god and that's just thenature of it there's laws that
exist that that affect eachother in a way that is
devastating to you and me in ahorrible horrible way Okay, do
you have Moses 6, 55 and 57?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
Do you want to read both?
SPEAKER_03 (13:10):
Yeah, read both.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
Okay.
And the Lord spake unto Adam,saying, And as much as thy
children are conceived in sin,even so when they begin to grow
up, sin conceiveth in theirhearts, and they taste the
bitter that they may know toprize the good.
Wherefore, teach unto yourchildren that all men everywhere
must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
For no unclean thing can dwellthere or dwell in his presence.
(13:31):
For in the language of Adam, manof holiness is his name, and the
name of his only begotten is theSon of Man, even Jesus Christ, a
righteous judge who shall comein the meridian of time.
SPEAKER_03 (13:42):
So, law, eternal, absolute, universal law number
one.
And it's repeated all throughoutScripture.
SPEAKER_00 (13:49):
No unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (13:52):
What does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_00 (13:55):
I mean, I think, oh, there was an elder in my mission
that taught this so well topeople when he was teaching
about like the plan ofsalvation, where it's like a mom
who just got done worth hoursand hours worth of cleaning her
house and her house is spick andspan, like so clean.
And her kid just gets doneplaying outside and and he's
(14:16):
outside jumping in puddles andplaying in the mud and diving
through the grass whatever andhe goes to come inside and she's
like wait wait wait no like ijust cleaned the entire house
like you're not coming insideand so i think of that in terms
of like being able to understandit but just you know i think
about the temple too like whenyou go in the temple it's a
perfect peaceful cleanly placeand there's nothing that should
(14:42):
go in it that's has the abilityto make it dirty.
And it's not even that itshouldn't, it's that it can't.
It's like the universal law thatit can't work.
See,
SPEAKER_03 (14:51):
and that's the thing.
A lot of these eternal laws, Idon't really understand them.
But I do believe that Scripture,restored through living prophets
and priests, is infallible.
It's perfect.
So I can trust in it.
And the law exists.
No unclean thing can do on thepresence of God.
I don't know why.
I don't know...
How he gets around that, I don'tknow the details around it.
(15:13):
All I know is I believe thatthat law is true and exists.
Okay, now do you have the otherone in Romans?
So if you, so listeners, get inyour head.
The great dilemma starts withone law that says if you're even
slightly unclean, like itdoesn't matter how unclean you
are, right?
If you line up two people andone person has 10 trillion sins
(15:34):
and dirt on them and the otherperson has two, they're unclean.
So no unclean thing can dwellthe presence of God.
Okay, now the Romans scripture.
And so this one really makes itpersonal for each of us because
when you look in the mirror, youhave to ask yourself, am I
clean?
Am I unclean?
(15:55):
How clean or unclean am I?
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of
God.
SPEAKER_03 (16:03):
Pretty simple.
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
All.
SPEAKER_03 (16:05):
So that's a great dilemma, right?
Why is it a dilemma, do youthink?
SPEAKER_00 (16:09):
Because we're all sinners.
We're all imperfect people.
We can't stay clean, which meanswe're not making it back to the
presence of God.
SPEAKER_03 (16:18):
Is it hypothetical that we're not making it back or
is it reality that we're notmaking it back?
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
Reality.
Logically.
SPEAKER_03 (16:26):
Yeah, logically.
SPEAKER_00 (16:27):
We're not making it back to Heavenly Father's
presence.
SPEAKER_03 (16:29):
None of you, listeners, none of you,
missionaries, you preparingmissionaries who are about to go
out and lead people to thegospel of Jesus Christ, how
bummer of a story is this?
And this is why it's called TheGreat Dilemma, that none of you
are making it back to God'spresence.
None of you.
None of you investigators, noneof you yourselves, none of your
family.
You're done.
(16:51):
Because no unclean thing candwell in the presence of God,
and all of you have sinned.
All of us have sinned.
Should we just end the podcastright there?
SPEAKER_00 (16:57):
No, there's good news.
SPEAKER_03 (16:58):
Nope, nope.
Let's just end it right there.
So, sorry, everybody.
But this being the greatdilemma, and I love that you
said the word good news because,you know, we always hear the
gospel of Jesus Christ.
What is the translation ofgospel?
SPEAKER_00 (17:14):
Good news.
SPEAKER_03 (17:15):
It's the good news.
Well, good news in contrast tothere must be bad news.
What's the bad news?
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
The great dilemma.
SPEAKER_03 (17:21):
We just told you the bad news.
The great dilemma, yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah, I love it.
Right?
No unclean thing can enter thepresence of God.
You are unclean.
And there's nothing that you cando to get clean of yourself.
Right?
There's nothing you can do byyourself to do it.
Now, obviously, listeners, whenwe talk about this, we're
temporarily putting aside JesusChrist, salvation, exaltation,
(17:44):
the atonement.
Right?
We're just talking abouteternal, absolute universal law.
And this great dilemma is reallyimportant to understand.
Okay, so...
The question then is, how do weovercome the great dilemma?
And this is the great and mostfun part of a mission, right?
We get to go teach people how toovercome the great dilemma.
(18:07):
Go for it, Lauren.
How do you overcome the greatdilemma?
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Through Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_03 (18:13):
Right?
And I love, there's nothinggreater than teaching.
Someone can, if you come toChrist, you will overcome.
Now the technical scripturalterms are, the result of the
great dilemma are, is death,physical death and spiritual
death, right?
The, the, the, the fall of Adamand Eve and all of us coming
(18:35):
onto this planet, we live withinthe conditions of a fallen world
and it has brought upon us twothings, physical death and
spiritual death.
Okay.
Now in the context of the lawthat says no unclean thing can
be in the presence of God.
What I visualize there isseparation, right?
(18:55):
If I am separated from God'spresence, there is a beautiful,
not beautiful, a horrible, Iguess would be the better word,
term in the scriptures calledspiritual death.
And the definition of spiritualdeath is a separation from God's
presence.
Now, is there a separation inphysical death as well?
SPEAKER_00 (19:16):
Well, body and spirit separate.
SPEAKER_03 (19:18):
Separation.
Right?
So listen to this.
You guys preparing for yourmission.
This is such clean, beautiful,beautiful doctrine.
Physical death keeps you fromthe presence of God.
It keeps you from becoming likeGod, right?
Because God's spirit and bodyare together.
And even the scripture saysinseparably connected.
(19:38):
They will never separate.
Yet you, your spirit and yourbody will separate.
And that is physical death.
And that is the obstacle thatstands in your way to becoming
like God.
That's part of the dilemma.
And then you apply that to whatwe call spiritual death.
If you sin one time, and you alldo, then you are separated from
(19:59):
the presence of God foreternity.
That is spiritual death.
So these obstacles that stand inour way, physical death and
spiritual death, they need to beovercome.
And you as a missionary, yourone purpose is to lead souls to
Christ because through Christ,we can overcome physical and
spiritual death.
UNKNOWN (20:20):
Woo!
SPEAKER_03 (20:22):
Right?
And the physical overcoming isjust a gift.
It's resurrection.
That glorious Easter, it's goingto be Easter here in a few days,
that glorious Easter morning,and I love that the church is
emphasizing more and more ofEaster, right?
Yes.
Where Jesus Christ, three dayslater, he's dead.
They're mourning.
We're sad.
I can't believe it.
He was supposed to be theSavior, the Son of God, yet he's
(20:43):
dead.
Then that beautiful Eastermorning, he's risen.
And that spirit and that bodycame together again, inseparably
connected.
Because of that, that gift isgiven to all of us.
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
There's actually, wait, can I share something?
Yeah, please.
So there's, in the GospelLibrary, there's under the
videos and images section,there's Bible videos that's
about, or just likeinspirational messages regarding
Easter.
And there's a specific video,and it's of Mary Magdalene, and
(21:17):
she goes to the tomb to seeJesus Christ and Jesus.
It's always more powerful withmusic over it, I'm telling you.
She goes to the tomb.
She's looking around.
Obviously, everyone knows thestory, and she can't find him.
And then she sees him, and hebasically tells her, like, I'm
risen.
And he says, go tell everyone.
And it cuts to her just running.
(21:38):
And it always made me soemotional to watch.
And there's a part of it, evenafter two, where it cuts from
her running, and it transitionsinto two sister missionaries
running up the stairs.
And...
Every time I watched that video,the spirit just hit me so
strong.
I'd watch it very often on themission.
But...
(21:58):
The urgency that she had insharing this good news is one
that every, not even missionary,but every member of the church
should have.
But especially as a missionary,that's what you're called to do,
right?
To share this good news.
And it always made me soemotional because she sees him.
She sees his life.
You can see her demeanor changeand just she's filled with hope.
And she just books it.
(22:19):
She just goes running andrunning.
And there's a point where shestops and she gets to...
his cross and she's kind of juststaring at it and the sun is
just like shining and she likesmiles remember she's doing it
and then just takes off againand she finally runs and runs
and she bursts open the door towhere the other apostles are and
(22:39):
she's like so out of breath justso out of breath and just slams
the door open and she's likehe's risen And it's one of the
most powerful videos, I think,in the way that she is so urgent
in it.
Like as soon as she understandsthe miracle of Jesus Christ and
his resurrection, she takes off.
SPEAKER_03 (22:58):
See, that's the spirit that I had on my mission.
I wanted to just wake up everyday and just run outside to
declare it.
Door to door, run.
Door to door, on the trolleybus, on the tramvay, anywhere
where I could open my mouth anddeclare it.
Guys, we don't have to suffer inmisery anymore.
There's this death that makes usso miserable, this physical
death.
And then this spiritual death,this dilemma, this horrible
(23:20):
situation, it's overcome.
Christ did it.
He rose and that spirit and thatbody are reunited.
And so ours will be.
And not only that, but thespiritual death can be overcome.
Yeah, just like that same spiritof just Like missionaries, you
preparing.
That's why D&C 4 says, look, ifyou have a desire to serve,
you're going to be called to thework.
(23:41):
But see that you serve him withall your heart, might, mind, and
strength.
Run.
Declare it.
That's that principle.
Yeah, I love it so much.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
It's so awesome.
And I think, too, the mostimportant, this is the most
important message that you canshare as a missionary, right?
I think...
majority of the people a lot ofthe people i talked to at least
had a had a belief in jesuschrist had a belief in god there
were probably a few that didn'tbut they always wanted to know
like what was what's differentabout the mormon church what's
(24:10):
different about your churchobviously we have a living day
prophet we have the book ofmormon things like that but also
just the the way that we talk sofree or that we should talk so
freely about this good news thatokay yeah, this is kind of
scary.
We cannot be in the presence ofGod because we're not perfect.
There's a way to overcome thatand to be back in his presence.
(24:33):
But also there's a way todevelop on this earth in a way
that was created by HeavenlyFather himself and is made
possible through Jesus Christ.
I remember I was in a meetingonce with some other sisters in
the mission.
And one of them, we broke downthe, it was all the Armanas in
the mission at the time.
There was literally only six ofus.
No, five, sorry.
(24:54):
Not important, but the hermanathat was over us gave us each
one of the promises that we makeduring the endowment session,
what we covenant to do.
And so we each took time toresearch it and then share about
it in a little meeting.
And I remember one of thehermanas that I was serving with
had said, she was talking aboutthe law of consecration, which I
(25:14):
think really applies tomissionaries because, you know,
we...
Yeah.
Yeah.
(25:41):
so many external forces that arejust cheering you on because
this good news needs to beknown.
It talks about so much in theBible and in the book of Mormon,
share this, share this, sharethis, share this, share it to
your posterity, share it toother people.
And I think it's so amazing thatwhen Jesus Christ came to the
Americas and after he wasresurrected, actually one of the
(26:02):
very first things he said wasgo, go spread my gospel, go
share this good
SPEAKER_03 (26:06):
news.
I love it.
And that is, and that, So thatis the message.
That's why as a missionary, youjust run out the doors because
you want to share the good news.
Good news of what?
The good news that the bad newsof the great dilemma is
overcome.
Christ is victorious over sinand death.
He has won.
He's overcome physical death,spiritual death, not for himself
(26:29):
only, but for all of us.
That is the good news, theexciting great news.
And so as a missionary, your onegoal is to lead souls to Christ
and because he has overcomethese things and it will
overcome the dilemma.
And then we get to focus on as amissionary, how do we do that?
Or how do you come to Christ andovercome those things?
Well, it is very simple.
The scriptures teach it moreabundantly than anything.
(26:51):
How do you come to Christ?
You come through faith,repentance, baptism, and the
gift of the Holy ghost.
And that is the good news of thegospel of Jesus Christ, that he
has prepared the way for us toovercome sin and death and be
saved and Faith, repentance,baptism, the gift of the Holy
Ghost leads us to Christ forsalvation.
(27:11):
Good.
So we've defined salvation,right?
So listeners, I hope you can seehow simple and beautiful it is.
Salvation is through Christovercoming sin and death.
And again, if death isseparation, physical death,
separation, body and spirit,spiritual death, separation from
the presence of God, thensalvation is being at one again
(27:36):
with Atonement.
SPEAKER_02 (27:39):
I was just going
SPEAKER_00 (27:40):
to say that.
We're on the same wavelength.
That is like my all-timefavorite part of this book by
Steven Robinson.
He talks and he explains likeexaltation and salvation in such
a simple way where it's like Ican visualize it out in front of
me.
But he breaks the word atonementup and he talks about it like at
(28:03):
one minute is how it's brokenup.
Yeah.
And
SPEAKER_03 (28:08):
if you describe the great dilemma, it is the
separatement.
I don't know how
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
to say it.
Separation.
Separation.
Estrangement.
SPEAKER_03 (28:15):
Estrangement.
Like it's the opposite of beingat one, right?
It is the literal thing.
Sin and death is the literalthing that makes us not at one
with God.
It separates us from God.
SPEAKER_00 (28:26):
The
SPEAKER_03 (28:27):
atonement makes us back one with him through Jesus
Christ.
SPEAKER_00 (28:30):
He talks about that.
He said it's taking two thingsthat have been estranged or
separated and bringing them backtogether.
And then that just clicked itfor me.
I'm like, okay, wait, I amseparated from my heavenly
father right now because I'mliving in the earth.
But there's a couple of things Ineed to do.
And there's a couple of thingsthat I do that kind of make it
impossible for me to get back tohim.
And then he brings in theatonement.
(28:51):
It's not impossible.
Here's what you got to do.
And I think that's the mostuseful thing that we can do for
our friends as missionaries isto help them understand how to
apply the atonement into theirlife.
SPEAKER_03 (29:03):
And the way to apply the atonement is very simple.
It is faith.
It is repentance.
It is baptism.
It is the gift of the HolyGhost.
Man, on this podcast, I'm notgoing to shut up ever.
Even Christ in 3 Nephi himselfsaid, he says, I'm going to
declare unto you my doctrine,and this is my doctrine, and
there's no other doctrine.
Don't speak more or less ofthis.
This is all you have to say.
(29:23):
And then he declared hisdoctrine.
Faith on the Lord Jesus Christ,repentance, baptism, the gift of
the Holy Ghost.
That's it.
That is the way to come tosalvation and to overcome sin
and death, the great dilemma.
Okay, so...
In the class and in thisprinciple, we talk about that's
it, the good news of the gospel.
That's salvation in a verybeautiful, clean way.
(29:45):
Okay, but if we now understandwhat salvation is, what the heck
is exaltation?
And I love in the class that allthese kids, they finally are
like, wow, this is a great wayto talk about salvation.
And now we understand a lotabout it.
What is exaltation?
What is it?
And that's where the templecomes in.
(30:06):
Because if you hear PresidentNelson, the last two or three
conferences, get up and say thewords, members of the church,
Latter-day Saints, the missionof the church is not salvation.
It is the celestial kingdom andexaltation.
That's the mission of thechurch.
Everything we do is to drive usto celestial kingdom exaltation.
(30:31):
That's what the message was.
So that means that we as membersof the church and you as
missionaries, you have tounderstand the difference.
And if we had a big room full ofyou listeners and prepping
missionaries here, we would havethis wonderful big debate about
what you think the differenceis.
And most of the time, we're allwrong about it, right?
It's true.
(30:51):
So let's talk about what isexaltation and how does it
differ from salvation.
Well, the first thing that I'llsay is this.
You cannot achieve exaltationthrough Jesus Christ, without
the ordinances and covenants ofthe temple.
SPEAKER_02 (31:08):
Boom.
SPEAKER_03 (31:10):
And let's talk about that doctrine a little bit.
Can you go to D&C 132, 22 to 24?
So this scripture is, it's likenuanced.
You have to listen to the wordsor read the words very carefully
because they can quickly go byyou because it's kind of
language that we hear all thetime.
But here the Lord is telling theprophet, really specific words
(31:34):
that change the meaning ofeverything.
Do you have it?
SPEAKER_00 (31:36):
You said 132.
What verses?
SPEAKER_03 (31:38):
22 to 24.
You got it open and marked.
SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
It's marked.
SPEAKER_03 (31:41):
Okay, read it.
SPEAKER_00 (31:42):
Okay.
For straight is the gate andnarrow the way that leadeth unto
the exaltation and continuationof the lives.
SPEAKER_03 (31:48):
Just pause there.
Just pause there.
Okay, through all the scripturewe hear about the gate is
straight and narrow, meaningit's hard to get through it.
And it's not all curvy andwindy, but it is hard to get
through it.
It's narrow.
It's not this broad, broad,broad, lots of ideas and
doctrines, and it's narrow.
But then he says the weirdestthing.
So straight is the gate, narrowis the way that leadeth unto
(32:10):
exaltation and continuation ofthe lives.
But the odd thing is wheneveryou hear in the Bible or in
other scriptures when they saystraight is the gate and narrow
is the way back to heaven orback to God.
But this in D&C gets reallyweirdly worded.
Just like I just said.
The straight is the gate andthere is the way that leads unto
exaltation and the continuationof lives.
(32:32):
What?
Like that's such weird language.
Okay, we'll come back to it.
Keep reading.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
And few there be that find it because ye receive
me not in the world, neither doye know me.
But if ye receive me in theworld, then shall ye know me and
shall receive your exaltation.
And how
SPEAKER_03 (32:49):
do you receive him in the world?
You come to Christ through what?
SPEAKER_00 (32:53):
Faith, baptism, repentance.
I'm sorry.
Faith, repentance, baptism, giftof the Holy Ghost.
SPEAKER_03 (32:57):
That's it.
And in the class, I make usrepeat that over and over and
over and over again.
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
Hey, and for you missionaries going out, every
single day you will havecompanion study.
Take advantage of it.
That's my two cents.
But point is, every single dayyou repeat your purpose as a
missionary, which is that.
Did you know that?
In Preach My Gospel, the veryfirst page says your purpose,
and it has it italicized, and ithas your purpose as a
(33:23):
missionary.
So do
SPEAKER_03 (33:24):
that.
And it says, lead souls toChrist through faith,
repentance, baptism, and get theHoly Ghost.
SPEAKER_00 (33:28):
And you repeat it every day.
I
SPEAKER_03 (33:29):
mean, I love that because I didn't have preached
my gospel.
I'm the old person.
But we knew that the purpose ofa missionary is to lead souls to
Christ through faith,repentance, baptism, and get the
Holy Ghost.
So I love that the new book, themanual, says that
straightforward.
Okay, so it says here, but if yereceive me in the world, which
again is...
Here's how you receive God inthe world is through Christ,
(33:51):
through faith, repentance,baptism, and the Holy Ghost.
Then shall ye know me.
So again, back to this greatdilemma thing.
If you're not in his presence,if you're not around God, then
you don't know God.
The only way to get to know Godis to get into his presence.
And the only way to achieve thatis to coming unto him through
faith, repentance, baptism, andget the Holy Ghost.
Ye shall know me and shallreceive your exaltation, that
(34:13):
where I am, ye shall be alsoexalted.
SPEAKER_00 (34:18):
Yes!
SPEAKER_03 (34:19):
Now go to 24.
SPEAKER_00 (34:20):
This is eternal lives, to know the only wise and
true God, and Jesus Christ, whomhe hath sent.
I am he.
Receive ye, therefore, my law.
SPEAKER_03 (34:30):
So what's fascinating is it says, this is
eternal lives.
Usually in Scripture it says,and this is eternal life.
Here it says lives.
It's really odd.
Really, really odd.
It is.
It's so odd.
Yeah.
Now I'm going to read anotherscripture from Abraham.
This is the book of Abraham.
This is 326.
(34:50):
And it says, and they who keeptheir first estate shall be
added upon.
And they who keep not theirfirst estate shall not have
glory in the same kingdom withthose who keep their first
estate.
And they who keep their firstestate shall have glory added
upon their heads forever andever.
Okay.
So this is kind of complicated.
So listeners bear with us.
(35:12):
We're going to try and simplifythis.
And what we're trying to do hereis explain what exaltation is.
Because if we can understandthese verses and understand what
exaltation is and how it differsfrom salvation, then you'll have
a better understanding about whythe temple is so important.
And for you missionariespreparing, focus on the temple,
not just on your mission.
So we've just talked abouthow...
(35:34):
To come unto Christ, we knowGod.
We get back into his presence.
We know him.
But then he starts using thisreally interesting language.
He says, this is eternal lives.
And he says, this leadeth toexaltation and the continuation
of lives.
And he says, if you get throughyour first estate, or in other
words, come to Christ, they willhave glory added upon their
(35:55):
heads forever and ever.
So there's these two concepts ofglory and eternal lives that we
want to break down and help letus understand.
So, Preparing missionaries whenyou go through the temple.
Well, let's start back.
The reason the gospel of Christ,as simple as it is, is faith,
repentance, baptism, and thegift of the Holy Ghost.
(36:16):
The baptism and gift of the HolyGhost part are the covenant
part.
Your investigators, they have tofeast upon the words of Christ
to have enough faith that leadsthem to repentance.
Now they're ready to enter intoa covenant of Christ, shake that
hand, and enter into thatlocked-in covenant, and that
leads to salvation.
When you go through the temple,you're already saved.
(36:39):
Right?
Salvation is free.
It is free through Christ,right?
Once you enter the covenant.
But you're already saved whenyou go through the temple.
So what's the point of thetemple?
Why would you need it?
If you're already saved.
SPEAKER_00 (36:49):
To be exalted.
To
SPEAKER_03 (36:51):
be exalted.
You go into the temple toreceive how many additional
covenants?
Like if baptism is the firstcovenant.
SPEAKER_00 (36:59):
Well, and the endowment, five.
SPEAKER_03 (37:00):
Five additional covenants.
And then on top of the endowmentcovenant.
Getting sealed.
Getting sealed is the sixthcovenant, right?
So listeners, what we're talkingabout here is you're already
saved going into the temple.
What's the point?
Well, you go in to receive ahandful of other covenants that
are going to lead you to thepath of exaltation.
(37:22):
And the difference is, let'stalk about it.
Salvation is being at one.
You're already...
separated from God.
So salvation is becoming back atone with God, being able to come
back into his presence.
Exaltation is entirelydifferent.
So based on these words, Lauren,continuation of lives, eternal
(37:44):
lives, glory forever and ever,what is your thought on what is
then exaltation as compared tosalvation?
SPEAKER_00 (37:53):
I think about...
Just the entire plan thatHeavenly Father created for us
and how while we're here on theearth, it encourages our
constant progression, but alsoeternal progression.
Emphasis on the eternal partbecause when we enter into these
covenants, we can continue toeternally progress.
So after we've been saved, afterwe've received salvation, we
(38:15):
still have the opportunity toprogress because that's
essentially what Heavenly Fathercreated us for.
And
SPEAKER_03 (38:22):
we use those words a lot, progress.
But I think it's so hardsometimes, like, well, I don't
know what that means.
Does that mean I'm going tobecome smarter?
Does that mean I'm going tobecome, I'm going to have more
muscles?
Which is impossible, becauselook at me.
More muscles.
SPEAKER_00 (38:35):
Sorry, there was a bug on the microphone.
I was blowing it away.
SPEAKER_03 (38:39):
You got it?
What does progress mean?
Does it mean become smarter,taller, more buff?
Like, what does progress mean?
Well, I think these scriptureswe just read gave us the true
definition of what is eternalprogression.
Sure, it's probably more wisdomand it's smarter and all that
kind of stuff.
But these two phrases, glory,which we're going to have to
(38:59):
define now, and eternal lives,those two things we have to
define and that'll help usunderstand what eternal
progression truly looks like.
Because we do believe that ourGod, our Father in heaven, the
creator of all, is continuing inhis glory.
Right?
Joseph Smith said it this way.
When Jesus Christ died and thenrose again and overcame sin and
(39:23):
death, what he did was he tookhis kingdom now, which he is in
control of, and he presented itto his Father.
And all of that glory raised upour Father even further.
And Jesus Christ takes hisplace.
Glory upon glory, eternalprogression upon eternal
progression.
(39:44):
And so the concept here withglory upon glory is, Lauren,
your God, your father loves youso much that when it says he's
prepared a throne for you andthat all that he has is yours
through Christ, I think whatthat, I mean, you tell me, I
think what that literally meansis his intention for you, his
daughter, is to glorify you tohis station, right?
(40:07):
which then in turn, as youpresent that to Christ and he
presents that to the Father,does what?
Glorifies him with more glory,raises him up even more exalted.
There's the word.
So exaltation means if I'm at alevel and I am given more power,
more glory, more knowledge, andI'm lifted up to the next level,
(40:31):
I am being exalted to that nextlevel.
So glory has something to dowith this thing, exaltation.
But the more important word iseternal lives.
So let's talk about that.
What do you think that means?
Eternal lives.
Why does it say eternal lives?
And why in scripture does it saya synonym for the word God or
our father is eternal?
(40:52):
Like, so God's life, eternallife is God's life is what the
scriptures say.
I don't know.
So this is a concept that's sofascinating, Lauren.
So listen, in order for you tobe exalted and get all this
glory, you have to enter intothese additional five covenants
and then ultimately you must, itis required for you to enter
into the new and everlastingcovenant of marriage.
(41:17):
Sealed.
SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (41:19):
Right?
So why do you think theordinance of sealing, the
covenant of sealing is necessaryfor you to be exalted?
In the context of continuationof lives, How can you continue
in life?
How can you continue lives?
You
SPEAKER_00 (41:34):
on
SPEAKER_03 (41:34):
your own.
SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
Posterity.
SPEAKER_03 (41:37):
By becoming a creator, right?
So if we are separated from Godin that we're unworthy, but
Christ gets us back into hispresence.
And if we're also separated fromGod and we're not like him, but
the plan is to become like him,you must become a creator.
You have to become a creator.
And the way to do that is youget married and sealed for all
eternity and you get endowedwith the power to continue
(42:02):
lives, to continue to createlife.
SPEAKER_00 (42:05):
So you're not even being exalted for your own self,
but also for your posterity.
Holy crap.
What did you just say?
That's actually crazy.
Say that
SPEAKER_03 (42:12):
again.
SPEAKER_00 (42:13):
You're not only being exalted for yourself, but
for your posterity.
SPEAKER_03 (42:17):
So that is it.
That's the essence of it,Lauren.
SPEAKER_00 (42:20):
Whoa.
I never even thought about that,which...
Oh my gosh, it's actually socool because I feel like on
Saturday sessions of GeneralConference, they talked so much
about protecting your posterity.
I feel like there were a coupledifferent talks that I listened
to and one of them, hold on, Ihave a list of notes, but one of
(42:40):
them, forgive me because Idefinitely do not remember whose
this was, but he had posed thequestion, what will you pass on
to the next generation?
And I was thinking about that.
I was like, oh.
obviously I don't have anothergeneration below me right now,
but I was like, when that timedoes come, what am I going to
pass on to it?
Am I going to pass the privilegeand the blessing of being sealed
(43:04):
and receiving this exaltation?
That's
SPEAKER_03 (43:06):
it.
You are passing upon yourposterity exaltation.
That's it.
It's so powerful.
It's so amazing.
Yeah.
God doesn't just want to saveus.
In fact, listeners, you're goingto be fascinated to learn this.
Whether you land in thecelestial, terrestrial, or
telestial kingdom, you're saved.
That's salvation.
(43:27):
So people who were bad people,who eventually either suffer for
their own sins or turn toChrist, they're saved in one of
those kingdoms.
That is the definition ofsalvation.
That's fascinating, right?
You don't want just salvation.
You want exaltation.
That is God's intention for us.
That is the purpose of thechurch.
(43:47):
That is the whole point.
He wants you to be like him.
You're his daughter.
I'm his son.
He wants us to live the life helives, and he lives a life of
creation and a continual,eternal growth of lives.
Prosperity?
What?
SPEAKER_00 (44:06):
Posterity.
SPEAKER_03 (44:06):
Posterity, thank
SPEAKER_00 (44:08):
you.
Prosperity.
SPEAKER_03 (44:09):
And that's why Joseph Smith says you can't be
exalted without your ancestors.
And that is why in the latterdays in 2025, the main thing
that happens in...
Conferences, new temple, newtemple, new temple, new temple.
Because we are doing the workfor those ancestors of
exaltation.
We're exalting each other byserving each other and adding
(44:32):
glory upon glory.
Because the more of yourposterity that you save and
bring to exaltation, that's moreglory for you.
Christ and that's more glory forGod and it's growth and more and
more.
It's continuation of lives andexaltation and glory.
It's amazing.
Now, listeners, I know this is acomplicated concept, but we
wanted to try and get youexcited about this idea that you
(44:55):
are not in your own journeycoming to Christ just to be
saved.
You're coming to Christ to beexalted and the temple is what
gets you there.
So focus on that.
Go get ready to And spend somuch time studying those
covenants that you're enteringinto in the temple that are
leading you to exaltation.
And then go get excited aboutleading others on your mission
(45:18):
for that.
SPEAKER_00 (45:19):
And I will say as a missionary too, one of the
biggest mistakes that I madethat I saw other missionaries
make was the lack of focus ontemples before a baptism.
I remember it wasn't until maybemy fourth or fifth transfer that
I finally got it locked into myhead.
I'm like, Oh, they need tounderstand this.
Like they need to know thisbefore they're baptized.
(45:41):
Cause then, you know, you getthem baptized and you have 30
days, get them to the temple.
That's the goal.
30 days, get them there.
And being able to explain andteach the plan of salvation in a
way that makes them excited togo to the temple, to fulfill
their potential and as a childof God and to help others come
(46:02):
unto Christ.
Because it's always so fun whenyou teach people and they just
get on fire with their gospeland they just want to share it
and share it and share it.
And you're like, okay, wait,here's a way that you can do it
for your family.
How you can do it for peoplethat you personally, maybe not
personally know, but that areconnected to you in some way,
shape or form.
And you talk to them about thetemple and how they're doing
(46:22):
their own missionary work.
I remember one of our friends,we were teaching the plan of
salvation and we were talkingabout the spirit world.
And he was just blown away.
He's like, what?
So you're telling me if I getbaptized and I follow Jesus
Christ, I get to teach peopleabout it even after I'm not
alive anymore?
I'm like, yeah.
(46:42):
He's like, wow.
And he actually said somethingthat was so sweet, but he was
like, Heavenly Father must loveme a lot.
And he kind of sat there andthen he goes, wait, Heavenly
Father must love all of us alot.
It was really precious, but itmade me think just What a
merciful God that we have toallow us the opportunity to have
(47:03):
this continuation of lives, tohave this answer to a great
dilemma that is so great that itwould truly end us without it.
Thinking about it, I'm justoverwhelmed with gratitude, but
also joy thinking, wow, I havemade...
I've had...
you know, experiences in mylife, I've made choices that
have led me to where I am on thepathway to exaltation.
(47:26):
And the thought process is, whatam I going to do to keep getting
there?
And so I think that's especiallyimportant for missionaries,
preparing to go while they'reserving and when they come home
as well.
I know this podcast is mainlycatered towards those preparing
to go and maybe those serving,but also throughout it all, one
thing that I wish I had kept inmy mind more was How can I
(47:48):
continue this path and how can Ihelp others get onto it?
Kind of like what we talkedabout in the beginning.
How can I help others takeadvantage of the atonement and
use it to its fullest ofabilities?
How to utilize it?
And I love that I can be livingproof that the atonement works.
I love that I can be livingproof that there is a God who
has a perfect plan for us.
(48:08):
And although my life isn'tperfect, I'm not perfect.
Not all my choices are perfect.
My character isn't either,but...
I'm doing all these things toreceive the greatest blessing
that God has for me.
And in the process, I get tohelp other people do that as
well, which brings you a type ofjoy.
I'm telling you guys, missionarywork, dang, I spent like 19
(48:29):
years of my life searching forthis joy.
And I was like, come on, I justneed this eternal joy.
I need this lasting joy.
I need to find out whathappiness feels like, what, you
know, eternal life is going tofeel like sharing the gospel.
seeing other people makecovenants that bring them closer
and understand what they mean toHeavenly Father, that is joy.
And there's no greater place tofeel it than in the mission
(48:52):
field.
SPEAKER_03 (48:53):
What a perfect way to end this episode.
Thanks, Lauren.
And that was powerful, thatwhole testimony.
And I'll add to it.
I was reading, just we'll endwith this.
For it says, now if we be deadwith Christ, he's talking about
baptism.
Was that a bummer?
SPEAKER_00 (49:09):
Sorry, keep
SPEAKER_03 (49:12):
going.
So he's talking about baptism,Paul is.
And he says, when you're buried,it's like you're dying.
So it says, now if we're deadwith Christ, we believe that we
shall also live with him, beingraised from the water with him.
Now, knowing that Christ beingraised from the dead dieth no
more, death hath no moredominion over him, for in that
he died, he died unto sin once.
(49:34):
But in that he liveth, he livethunto God.
Likewise reckon ye alsoyourselves to be dead indeed
unto sin, but alive unto Godthrough Jesus Christ our Lord.
I'm so grateful.
I'm so grateful that we got togo and come to Christ ourselves
and then go lead others toChrist to receive this great
news.
(49:54):
And the goal is exaltation andit is pure joy like you said.
Lauren, awesome episode.
Awesome.
I'm going to go home and go readthat talk because it is what all
this is about.
Go do your homework.
Yeah, go read.
Go study.
Go get ready for your mission.
Get ready for your temple.
That's the most important thing.
All right, until next time.
See you.
The mission of the church is not salvation.
It is the celestial kingdom andexaltation.
That's the mission of thechurch.
Everything we do is to drive usto celestial kingdom,
exaltation.
All right, we're back.
(00:25):
Mission Prep Series podcast.
How exciting.
And Lauren's with us again.
Hey, Lauren.
SPEAKER_00 (00:29):
What's up?
SPEAKER_03 (00:31):
You just spent some time in Utah.
You're back.
You went to general conference,didn't you?
SPEAKER_00 (00:34):
Yes.
Two sessions, actually.
SPEAKER_03 (00:36):
Let's just say on the count of three, because
there's a consensus in theentire world.
On the count of three, whichtalk was the best and how
amazing was it?
On the count of three, one, two,three.
Sister Runia.
That talk was so powerful.
It was so good.
It was so, so gospel of JesusChrist at its core.
(00:58):
core and at its basics.
That's what I loved about ElderHolland when I first was younger
and he became an apostle.
Every time he talked, it waslike, this guy gets just the
core basic simplicity, right?
When Nephi, or who was it, Alma,that says, I glory in plainness
or in directness or whatever.
I just love that he coulddeliver such concise, clear,
(01:19):
like, oh, I get it.
And Sister Rania's talk wasthat.
It was so clear.
spiritually powerful and just atthe root of the wisdom of
eternal truth.
So today, this is a principlefrom our class that we teach.
It's the last one.
It's the very last one I teachbecause I think it's a perfect
(01:41):
transition to missionaries whoare now, they've caught the
fire.
They've got their callings.
They're super excited.
And then I hit them with thismessage and it both confuses
them and shocks them.
But I feel like this is aperfect transition principle to
end the classes on, my serieson, because A, it's practical,
(02:01):
and B, I don't know why, but wedon't talk about this like this
as much as I wish we would.
It was really refreshing thatfor the past three years in
General Conference, Elder Oaksand our prophet both focused on
this message and nothing butthis message.
And they did it with suchclarity that it was just
(02:23):
exciting.
So this principle is calledtemple more imperative than the
mission.
In other words, you listenerswho are preparing for your
mission, the message is this.
Your mission is awesome.
It's so exciting.
Like you're so lucky.
You're so blessed.
(02:43):
And it's really important.
Start getting ready for it.
But it is in your eternalperspective, it is nothing
compared to what you will do inthe temple of the Lord.
Nothing.
It means nothing compared towhat you, for your own soul,
will do in the temple of theLord.
And so for a handful of reasons,focus on the temple.
(03:06):
Don't focus as much on themission.
If you focus on the temple,there's no better way or thing
that will prepare you for yourmission.
I don't know, Lauren, do yousee, for some reason, the
culture of the church is alittle backwards in that sense,
right?
You're young kids, we get ourcallings, we're excited, right?
but we build up the mission andit's like, oh, by the way, get
(03:27):
your temple endowments out.
Go make some covenants that arefor your eternal exaltation, by
the way.
Do you feel like that's been howit is?
SPEAKER_00 (03:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
Why
SPEAKER_03 (03:35):
do you think?
SPEAKER_00 (03:38):
I don't...
Well, partially, maybe I couldthink that part of it has to do
with the temple and its sacrednature.
People...
especially younger people don'tknow where to draw the line
between what to talk about andwhat not to talk about.
I know personally for me, Inever took like a temple prep
class or anything like that.
And so, but I did take missionprep.
(03:59):
And so I think people talk moreabout and focus more on things
that they're comfortable withand that the temple going
through for your first time andjust in its sacred nature is
kind of an unknown, but themission is so widely talked
about, so shared and universal.
And so I think it's a little bitmore of a safe space for people.
I
SPEAKER_03 (04:20):
love that you mentioned that.
And the first part of, well,maybe because we keep it there,
it is sacred, not secret, butsacred.
We don't know how to talk aboutthat.
There is, I want to recommend apodcast episode called called
Leading Saints.
Leading Saints.
Let's see, who is it?
(04:42):
Yeah, Leading Saints.
Frank Kirkham, I think, is hisname.
Yeah, Frank Kirkham.
And he had on his podcast,Leading Saints, a man called
Anthony Sweat.
Go look it up.
It's on YouTube.
I have never heard anyone talkabout the temple more
effectively than Anthony Sweat.
he wrote books on it, I think,and he does podcasts is kind of
(05:03):
what he does, but talking aboutwhat is sacred and what is
secret versus, you know, whatcan you talk about?
SPEAKER_01 (05:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:09):
Excellent.
So anyway, just wanted to plugthat real quick.
Okay.
So that's a good reason, but forwhatever reason, the culture is
that way a little bit.
Do you agree?
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_03 (05:17):
Yeah.
And so my message in thisprinciple or in the class is
that's not right.
And the whole class, we get intothis deep, amazing spiritual
doctrinal discussion and, aboutone thing, and it's about this.
What is the difference betweensalvation and exaltation?
(05:38):
And I love having a room full of16, 17, 18, 19-year-olds and ask
that question.
The eyes glaze over.
It's true.
There's no answer.
There's no answer.
And it surprises me because it'ssuch a beautiful and fundamental
part of the gospel of JesusChrist.
(05:59):
And it just surprises me that wedon't know it very much.
So anyway, it's a great timedoing this lesson because it's
amazing to see their eyes justlight up and go, whoa, this is
powerful stuff.
So that's what we're going totry and do today.
But first I want to share aquick story.
So when I had made the decisionto go on a mission, really I
made the decision to go up onthe mountaintop behind my
parents' house, kneel down andask God if he lived.
(06:21):
and if Christ lived, and if theBook of Mormon was true and the
Bible was true, and if JosephSmith was a prophet.
And I didn't get the answer Iwanted.
I didn't get any answer, and Iwas super disappointed.
But this swelling in my heartand the desire that I had
walking down that mountain to goback down and read the
scriptures, feast upon the wordsof Christ and start praying was
the beginning of such animportant journey for me to
eventually get those revelationsand answers.
(06:43):
half of these answers camewithin a temple.
So anyway, through that process,I started getting excited about
my mission.
Then my mission call comes tothe Ukraine Donetsk mission.
I'm super excited.
And now I'm on this path of I'mreading, I'm praying, I've got
my call.
So at the time, my dad, who wasthe greatest, I love my dad, he
(07:04):
had a neighbor and a friend whohe had hired at his work, this
man named Ed Jesperson.
Now, Lorne, I'm going to tellyou about this epic man, Ed
Jesperson.
Ed was like six foot three orfour, big tall dude, older guy.
He was from New York.
And he was the first stakepresident way back when in
(07:24):
Brooklyn.
So he has like story.
He has like his, and this dudehad a deep New York accent and
he kind of was real lively andhe shook when he talked.
Just an amazing, amazing guy.
Ed Jesperson, epic, epic guy.
This guy could preach likeamazing.
UNKNOWN (07:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (07:41):
One day he comes to me, we'd become friends, and he
comes to me and he says,Shawnee.
What are you laughing at?
That's Ed Jesperson.
He says, Shawnee.
And he starts telling me, thetemple is the most important
thing in your life right now.
And he says, listen, you've gotlike three months before you're
leaving on your mission.
If you'll do it, Shawnee.
(08:01):
He says, I will go with youevery single day to the temple
and let's do a session every dayfor the next three months.
And I was like, what?
I, of course, didn't understandthe power of the temple at that
point.
But I also was like, well, I gota job and I make some money.
So we negotiated.
And I says, how about everyother day?
(08:22):
How about three times a week?
Which was a little overwhelmingto me at the time.
But I was like, well, I don'tknow.
It's Ed and he's awesome.
Okay, so Ed Jesperson and I wentto the temple three days a week
for like two, three months.
And this was the most powerfulexperience Nothing could have,
absolutely nothing could haveprepared me better for a
(08:43):
mission.
To learn what the Spirit is, tolearn how to feel the Spirit, to
learn the doctrines of Christ,and it was life-changing.
And then we would go through asession, and then we'd get into
the celestial room, and Ed wouldsit down with me, and he'd nudge
me, and he'd be like, Shawnee.
I got to tell you what I learnedtoday.
And he'd like talk about thisspiritual, powerful thing.
(09:03):
And I'd just be like eyes open,like, holy cow, we're in this
spiritual place.
And he's, this legend is tellingme about what he learned today.
And then he'd be like, Shawnee,what did you feel and learn?
And eventually I started to openmy heart and mind to be able to
learn that way.
It was so exciting for me.
And it became such a powerfulspiritual thing that I remember
(09:25):
I would, to remind myself, I'dwrite on my hand the word
temple.
to be like, all right, getprepared for it.
Start praying for it because,man, that session two days ago
was amazing.
And I'll never forget because Iwas at work at this restaurant
and I had the word temple.
And this super cute girl who Iworked with nudged me and was
like, what is that?
That kind of got mad at me.
SPEAKER_02 (09:47):
Oh.
SPEAKER_03 (09:47):
Yeah, she got mad at me.
She's like, what the heck isthat?
I'm like, it's just temple.
She's like, come on, dude,that's really disrespectful.
Why would you do that?
I'm like, what do you mean?
She's like, well...
We're here in Utah.
I know you're not a member ofthe church, or at least you're
not an active member of thechurch.
SPEAKER_00 (10:02):
She said that to you?
She
SPEAKER_03 (10:02):
said to me.
I don't know if it's because ofthe way I looked.
I don't know.
I don't know.
And she's like, so, you know,treat that with some respect.
And I'm like, whoa, whoa, backoff.
Back off.
I am an endowed member of thechurch.
I'm going on my mission in twomonths, and I'm just reminding
myself to prepare for thetemple.
And her eyes lit up, and westarted dating.
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
Oh, two months before your mission?
SPEAKER_03 (10:24):
Why not?
SPEAKER_00 (10:24):
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (10:25):
Why not?
UNKNOWN (10:27):
What?
SPEAKER_03 (10:27):
Argue against it.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
What?
No.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03 (10:30):
Tell me I was bad.
SPEAKER_00 (10:34):
Go ahead.
Hey, you're going to the templethree times a week.
I can't say anything.
SPEAKER_03 (10:36):
Yeah, and it was fun because I know it wasn't a
serious dating thing, but itbecame such a part of my life.
So anyway, so temple is moreimportant than your mission.
It'll get you prepared for it.
And the concept I want to, like,let's talk about is what I think
is the number one reason why itgets you there, and that's this.
if you understand as amissionary, a preparing
(10:57):
missionary, the differencebetween salvation and
exaltation, it's going to helpyou get there.
So let's just start thatdiscussion.
Yeah.
What do you think?
This is, I don't know.
Cause you're a returnmissionary.
Now, you know, these answers,
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
but I didn't.
SPEAKER_03 (11:12):
Okay.
Let's, let's talk about that.
So in the, like, a year and ahalf ago, two years ago, when
you're sitting in our livingroom and all you kids were doing
the mission prep with me, and Iasked that question, what were
some of the answers that youwould hear from everyone?
What's the difference betweensalvation and exaltation?
Do you remember
SPEAKER_00 (11:28):
anything?
I don't really remember whatothers' answers were, but I
remember sitting there beinglike,
SPEAKER_03 (11:36):
uh...
Did you think it was a dumbquestion back then?
Did you think it was a, wait,wait, I should know this?
Did you feel like you shouldhave known
SPEAKER_00 (11:42):
it?
Yeah, I was like, dang...
I need to start paying moreattention during second hour.
Oh,
SPEAKER_03 (11:47):
I love that.
Clearly a pre-missionary thoughtprocess that you're going to
learn the gospel in second hourof church as opposed to your own
studying.
Okay, we'll start about it alittle bit.
So there's a great, great bookcalled Believing Christ.
SPEAKER_00 (12:05):
Stephen Robinson.
Bam.
SPEAKER_03 (12:07):
I love that you know that.
SPEAKER_00 (12:08):
So good.
SPEAKER_03 (12:08):
And there's a section there where he talks
about the great dilemma.
So let's talk about that alittle bit.
So there's two verses.
So you listeners in the podcast,open up with us.
Moses 6, could you open?
Moses 6, 55 to 57.
And then I'll open up Romans 3,23.
So Stephen Robinson explains howin order to understand the
(12:30):
concept of salvation orexaltation, you really have to
understand this scripturalconcept of this great dilemma
it's never called the greatdilemma but it really is a
perfect word for it why is it agreat dilemma here's why because
there are two eternal truthsthat contradict each other in
such a way that it is absolutelyum devastating to every every
(12:54):
child of god and that's just thenature of it there's laws that
exist that that affect eachother in a way that is
devastating to you and me in ahorrible horrible way Okay, do
you have Moses 6, 55 and 57?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:07):
Do you want to read both?
SPEAKER_03 (13:10):
Yeah, read both.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
Okay.
And the Lord spake unto Adam,saying, And as much as thy
children are conceived in sin,even so when they begin to grow
up, sin conceiveth in theirhearts, and they taste the
bitter that they may know toprize the good.
Wherefore, teach unto yourchildren that all men everywhere
must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God.
For no unclean thing can dwellthere or dwell in his presence.
(13:31):
For in the language of Adam, manof holiness is his name, and the
name of his only begotten is theSon of Man, even Jesus Christ, a
righteous judge who shall comein the meridian of time.
SPEAKER_03 (13:42):
So, law, eternal, absolute, universal law number
one.
And it's repeated all throughoutScripture.
SPEAKER_00 (13:49):
No unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (13:52):
What does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_00 (13:55):
I mean, I think, oh, there was an elder in my mission
that taught this so well topeople when he was teaching
about like the plan ofsalvation, where it's like a mom
who just got done worth hoursand hours worth of cleaning her
house and her house is spick andspan, like so clean.
And her kid just gets doneplaying outside and and he's
(14:16):
outside jumping in puddles andplaying in the mud and diving
through the grass whatever andhe goes to come inside and she's
like wait wait wait no like ijust cleaned the entire house
like you're not coming insideand so i think of that in terms
of like being able to understandit but just you know i think
about the temple too like whenyou go in the temple it's a
perfect peaceful cleanly placeand there's nothing that should
(14:42):
go in it that's has the abilityto make it dirty.
And it's not even that itshouldn't, it's that it can't.
It's like the universal law thatit can't work.
See,
SPEAKER_03 (14:51):
and that's the thing.
A lot of these eternal laws, Idon't really understand them.
But I do believe that Scripture,restored through living prophets
and priests, is infallible.
It's perfect.
So I can trust in it.
And the law exists.
No unclean thing can do on thepresence of God.
I don't know why.
I don't know...
How he gets around that, I don'tknow the details around it.
(15:13):
All I know is I believe thatthat law is true and exists.
Okay, now do you have the otherone in Romans?
So if you, so listeners, get inyour head.
The great dilemma starts withone law that says if you're even
slightly unclean, like itdoesn't matter how unclean you
are, right?
If you line up two people andone person has 10 trillion sins
(15:34):
and dirt on them and the otherperson has two, they're unclean.
So no unclean thing can dwellthe presence of God.
Okay, now the Romans scripture.
And so this one really makes itpersonal for each of us because
when you look in the mirror, youhave to ask yourself, am I
clean?
Am I unclean?
(15:55):
How clean or unclean am I?
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00 (15:59):
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of
God.
SPEAKER_03 (16:03):
Pretty simple.
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
All.
SPEAKER_03 (16:05):
So that's a great dilemma, right?
Why is it a dilemma, do youthink?
SPEAKER_00 (16:09):
Because we're all sinners.
We're all imperfect people.
We can't stay clean, which meanswe're not making it back to the
presence of God.
SPEAKER_03 (16:18):
Is it hypothetical that we're not making it back or
is it reality that we're notmaking it back?
SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
Reality.
Logically.
SPEAKER_03 (16:26):
Yeah, logically.
SPEAKER_00 (16:27):
We're not making it back to Heavenly Father's
presence.
SPEAKER_03 (16:29):
None of you, listeners, none of you,
missionaries, you preparingmissionaries who are about to go
out and lead people to thegospel of Jesus Christ, how
bummer of a story is this?
And this is why it's called TheGreat Dilemma, that none of you
are making it back to God'spresence.
None of you.
None of you investigators, noneof you yourselves, none of your
family.
You're done.
(16:51):
Because no unclean thing candwell in the presence of God,
and all of you have sinned.
All of us have sinned.
Should we just end the podcastright there?
SPEAKER_00 (16:57):
No, there's good news.
SPEAKER_03 (16:58):
Nope, nope.
Let's just end it right there.
So, sorry, everybody.
But this being the greatdilemma, and I love that you
said the word good news because,you know, we always hear the
gospel of Jesus Christ.
What is the translation ofgospel?
SPEAKER_00 (17:14):
Good news.
SPEAKER_03 (17:15):
It's the good news.
Well, good news in contrast tothere must be bad news.
What's the bad news?
SPEAKER_00 (17:20):
The great dilemma.
SPEAKER_03 (17:21):
We just told you the bad news.
The great dilemma, yeah?
Yeah.
Yeah, I love it.
Right?
No unclean thing can enter thepresence of God.
You are unclean.
And there's nothing that you cando to get clean of yourself.
Right?
There's nothing you can do byyourself to do it.
Now, obviously, listeners, whenwe talk about this, we're
temporarily putting aside JesusChrist, salvation, exaltation,
(17:44):
the atonement.
Right?
We're just talking abouteternal, absolute universal law.
And this great dilemma is reallyimportant to understand.
Okay, so...
The question then is, how do weovercome the great dilemma?
And this is the great and mostfun part of a mission, right?
We get to go teach people how toovercome the great dilemma.
(18:07):
Go for it, Lauren.
How do you overcome the greatdilemma?
SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
Through Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_03 (18:13):
Right?
And I love, there's nothinggreater than teaching.
Someone can, if you come toChrist, you will overcome.
Now the technical scripturalterms are, the result of the
great dilemma are, is death,physical death and spiritual
death, right?
The, the, the, the fall of Adamand Eve and all of us coming
(18:35):
onto this planet, we live withinthe conditions of a fallen world
and it has brought upon us twothings, physical death and
spiritual death.
Okay.
Now in the context of the lawthat says no unclean thing can
be in the presence of God.
What I visualize there isseparation, right?
(18:55):
If I am separated from God'spresence, there is a beautiful,
not beautiful, a horrible, Iguess would be the better word,
term in the scriptures calledspiritual death.
And the definition of spiritualdeath is a separation from God's
presence.
Now, is there a separation inphysical death as well?
SPEAKER_00 (19:16):
Well, body and spirit separate.
SPEAKER_03 (19:18):
Separation.
Right?
So listen to this.
You guys preparing for yourmission.
This is such clean, beautiful,beautiful doctrine.
Physical death keeps you fromthe presence of God.
It keeps you from becoming likeGod, right?
Because God's spirit and bodyare together.
And even the scripture saysinseparably connected.
(19:38):
They will never separate.
Yet you, your spirit and yourbody will separate.
And that is physical death.
And that is the obstacle thatstands in your way to becoming
like God.
That's part of the dilemma.
And then you apply that to whatwe call spiritual death.
If you sin one time, and you alldo, then you are separated from
(19:59):
the presence of God foreternity.
That is spiritual death.
So these obstacles that stand inour way, physical death and
spiritual death, they need to beovercome.
And you as a missionary, yourone purpose is to lead souls to
Christ because through Christ,we can overcome physical and
spiritual death.
UNKNOWN (20:20):
Woo!
SPEAKER_03 (20:22):
Right?
And the physical overcoming isjust a gift.
It's resurrection.
That glorious Easter, it's goingto be Easter here in a few days,
that glorious Easter morning,and I love that the church is
emphasizing more and more ofEaster, right?
Yes.
Where Jesus Christ, three dayslater, he's dead.
They're mourning.
We're sad.
I can't believe it.
He was supposed to be theSavior, the Son of God, yet he's
(20:43):
dead.
Then that beautiful Eastermorning, he's risen.
And that spirit and that bodycame together again, inseparably
connected.
Because of that, that gift isgiven to all of us.
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
There's actually, wait, can I share something?
Yeah, please.
So there's, in the GospelLibrary, there's under the
videos and images section,there's Bible videos that's
about, or just likeinspirational messages regarding
Easter.
And there's a specific video,and it's of Mary Magdalene, and
(21:17):
she goes to the tomb to seeJesus Christ and Jesus.
It's always more powerful withmusic over it, I'm telling you.
She goes to the tomb.
She's looking around.
Obviously, everyone knows thestory, and she can't find him.
And then she sees him, and hebasically tells her, like, I'm
risen.
And he says, go tell everyone.
And it cuts to her just running.
(21:38):
And it always made me soemotional to watch.
And there's a part of it, evenafter two, where it cuts from
her running, and it transitionsinto two sister missionaries
running up the stairs.
And...
Every time I watched that video,the spirit just hit me so
strong.
I'd watch it very often on themission.
But...
(21:58):
The urgency that she had insharing this good news is one
that every, not even missionary,but every member of the church
should have.
But especially as a missionary,that's what you're called to do,
right?
To share this good news.
And it always made me soemotional because she sees him.
She sees his life.
You can see her demeanor changeand just she's filled with hope.
And she just books it.
(22:19):
She just goes running andrunning.
And there's a point where shestops and she gets to...
his cross and she's kind of juststaring at it and the sun is
just like shining and she likesmiles remember she's doing it
and then just takes off againand she finally runs and runs
and she bursts open the door towhere the other apostles are and
(22:39):
she's like so out of breath justso out of breath and just slams
the door open and she's likehe's risen And it's one of the
most powerful videos, I think,in the way that she is so urgent
in it.
Like as soon as she understandsthe miracle of Jesus Christ and
his resurrection, she takes off.
SPEAKER_03 (22:58):
See, that's the spirit that I had on my mission.
I wanted to just wake up everyday and just run outside to
declare it.
Door to door, run.
Door to door, on the trolleybus, on the tramvay, anywhere
where I could open my mouth anddeclare it.
Guys, we don't have to suffer inmisery anymore.
There's this death that makes usso miserable, this physical
death.
And then this spiritual death,this dilemma, this horrible
(23:20):
situation, it's overcome.
Christ did it.
He rose and that spirit and thatbody are reunited.
And so ours will be.
And not only that, but thespiritual death can be overcome.
Yeah, just like that same spiritof just Like missionaries, you
preparing.
That's why D&C 4 says, look, ifyou have a desire to serve,
you're going to be called to thework.
(23:41):
But see that you serve him withall your heart, might, mind, and
strength.
Run.
Declare it.
That's that principle.
Yeah, I love it so much.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
It's so awesome.
And I think, too, the mostimportant, this is the most
important message that you canshare as a missionary, right?
I think...
majority of the people a lot ofthe people i talked to at least
had a had a belief in jesuschrist had a belief in god there
were probably a few that didn'tbut they always wanted to know
like what was what's differentabout the mormon church what's
(24:10):
different about your churchobviously we have a living day
prophet we have the book ofmormon things like that but also
just the the way that we talk sofree or that we should talk so
freely about this good news thatokay yeah, this is kind of
scary.
We cannot be in the presence ofGod because we're not perfect.
There's a way to overcome thatand to be back in his presence.
(24:33):
But also there's a way todevelop on this earth in a way
that was created by HeavenlyFather himself and is made
possible through Jesus Christ.
I remember I was in a meetingonce with some other sisters in
the mission.
And one of them, we broke downthe, it was all the Armanas in
the mission at the time.
There was literally only six ofus.
No, five, sorry.
(24:54):
Not important, but the hermanathat was over us gave us each
one of the promises that we makeduring the endowment session,
what we covenant to do.
And so we each took time toresearch it and then share about
it in a little meeting.
And I remember one of thehermanas that I was serving with
had said, she was talking aboutthe law of consecration, which I
(25:14):
think really applies tomissionaries because, you know,
we...
Yeah.
Yeah.
(25:41):
so many external forces that arejust cheering you on because
this good news needs to beknown.
It talks about so much in theBible and in the book of Mormon,
share this, share this, sharethis, share this, share it to
your posterity, share it toother people.
And I think it's so amazing thatwhen Jesus Christ came to the
Americas and after he wasresurrected, actually one of the
(26:02):
very first things he said wasgo, go spread my gospel, go
share this good
SPEAKER_03 (26:06):
news.
I love it.
And that is, and that, So thatis the message.
That's why as a missionary, youjust run out the doors because
you want to share the good news.
Good news of what?
The good news that the bad newsof the great dilemma is
overcome.
Christ is victorious over sinand death.
He has won.
He's overcome physical death,spiritual death, not for himself
(26:29):
only, but for all of us.
That is the good news, theexciting great news.
And so as a missionary, your onegoal is to lead souls to Christ
and because he has overcomethese things and it will
overcome the dilemma.
And then we get to focus on as amissionary, how do we do that?
Or how do you come to Christ andovercome those things?
Well, it is very simple.
The scriptures teach it moreabundantly than anything.
(26:51):
How do you come to Christ?
You come through faith,repentance, baptism, and the
gift of the Holy ghost.
And that is the good news of thegospel of Jesus Christ, that he
has prepared the way for us toovercome sin and death and be
saved and Faith, repentance,baptism, the gift of the Holy
Ghost leads us to Christ forsalvation.
(27:11):
Good.
So we've defined salvation,right?
So listeners, I hope you can seehow simple and beautiful it is.
Salvation is through Christovercoming sin and death.
And again, if death isseparation, physical death,
separation, body and spirit,spiritual death, separation from
the presence of God, thensalvation is being at one again
(27:36):
with Atonement.
SPEAKER_02 (27:39):
I was just going
SPEAKER_00 (27:40):
to say that.
We're on the same wavelength.
That is like my all-timefavorite part of this book by
Steven Robinson.
He talks and he explains likeexaltation and salvation in such
a simple way where it's like Ican visualize it out in front of
me.
But he breaks the word atonementup and he talks about it like at
(28:03):
one minute is how it's brokenup.
Yeah.
And
SPEAKER_03 (28:08):
if you describe the great dilemma, it is the
separatement.
I don't know how
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
to say it.
Separation.
Separation.
Estrangement.
SPEAKER_03 (28:15):
Estrangement.
Like it's the opposite of beingat one, right?
It is the literal thing.
Sin and death is the literalthing that makes us not at one
with God.
It separates us from God.
SPEAKER_00 (28:26):
The
SPEAKER_03 (28:27):
atonement makes us back one with him through Jesus
Christ.
SPEAKER_00 (28:30):
He talks about that.
He said it's taking two thingsthat have been estranged or
separated and bringing them backtogether.
And then that just clicked itfor me.
I'm like, okay, wait, I amseparated from my heavenly
father right now because I'mliving in the earth.
But there's a couple of things Ineed to do.
And there's a couple of thingsthat I do that kind of make it
impossible for me to get back tohim.
And then he brings in theatonement.
(28:51):
It's not impossible.
Here's what you got to do.
And I think that's the mostuseful thing that we can do for
our friends as missionaries isto help them understand how to
apply the atonement into theirlife.
SPEAKER_03 (29:03):
And the way to apply the atonement is very simple.
It is faith.
It is repentance.
It is baptism.
It is the gift of the HolyGhost.
Man, on this podcast, I'm notgoing to shut up ever.
Even Christ in 3 Nephi himselfsaid, he says, I'm going to
declare unto you my doctrine,and this is my doctrine, and
there's no other doctrine.
Don't speak more or less ofthis.
This is all you have to say.
(29:23):
And then he declared hisdoctrine.
Faith on the Lord Jesus Christ,repentance, baptism, the gift of
the Holy Ghost.
That's it.
That is the way to come tosalvation and to overcome sin
and death, the great dilemma.
Okay, so...
In the class and in thisprinciple, we talk about that's
it, the good news of the gospel.
That's salvation in a verybeautiful, clean way.
(29:45):
Okay, but if we now understandwhat salvation is, what the heck
is exaltation?
And I love in the class that allthese kids, they finally are
like, wow, this is a great wayto talk about salvation.
And now we understand a lotabout it.
What is exaltation?
What is it?
And that's where the templecomes in.
(30:06):
Because if you hear PresidentNelson, the last two or three
conferences, get up and say thewords, members of the church,
Latter-day Saints, the missionof the church is not salvation.
It is the celestial kingdom andexaltation.
That's the mission of thechurch.
Everything we do is to drive usto celestial kingdom exaltation.
(30:31):
That's what the message was.
So that means that we as membersof the church and you as
missionaries, you have tounderstand the difference.
And if we had a big room full ofyou listeners and prepping
missionaries here, we would havethis wonderful big debate about
what you think the differenceis.
And most of the time, we're allwrong about it, right?
It's true.
(30:51):
So let's talk about what isexaltation and how does it
differ from salvation.
Well, the first thing that I'llsay is this.
You cannot achieve exaltationthrough Jesus Christ, without
the ordinances and covenants ofthe temple.
SPEAKER_02 (31:08):
Boom.
SPEAKER_03 (31:10):
And let's talk about that doctrine a little bit.
Can you go to D&C 132, 22 to 24?
So this scripture is, it's likenuanced.
You have to listen to the wordsor read the words very carefully
because they can quickly go byyou because it's kind of
language that we hear all thetime.
But here the Lord is telling theprophet, really specific words
(31:34):
that change the meaning ofeverything.
Do you have it?
SPEAKER_00 (31:36):
You said 132.
What verses?
SPEAKER_03 (31:38):
22 to 24.
You got it open and marked.
SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
It's marked.
SPEAKER_03 (31:41):
Okay, read it.
SPEAKER_00 (31:42):
Okay.
For straight is the gate andnarrow the way that leadeth unto
the exaltation and continuationof the lives.
SPEAKER_03 (31:48):
Just pause there.
Just pause there.
Okay, through all the scripturewe hear about the gate is
straight and narrow, meaningit's hard to get through it.
And it's not all curvy andwindy, but it is hard to get
through it.
It's narrow.
It's not this broad, broad,broad, lots of ideas and
doctrines, and it's narrow.
But then he says the weirdestthing.
So straight is the gate, narrowis the way that leadeth unto
(32:10):
exaltation and continuation ofthe lives.
But the odd thing is wheneveryou hear in the Bible or in
other scriptures when they saystraight is the gate and narrow
is the way back to heaven orback to God.
But this in D&C gets reallyweirdly worded.
Just like I just said.
The straight is the gate andthere is the way that leads unto
exaltation and the continuationof lives.
(32:32):
What?
Like that's such weird language.
Okay, we'll come back to it.
Keep reading.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
And few there be that find it because ye receive
me not in the world, neither doye know me.
But if ye receive me in theworld, then shall ye know me and
shall receive your exaltation.
And how
SPEAKER_03 (32:49):
do you receive him in the world?
You come to Christ through what?
SPEAKER_00 (32:53):
Faith, baptism, repentance.
I'm sorry.
Faith, repentance, baptism, giftof the Holy Ghost.
SPEAKER_03 (32:57):
That's it.
And in the class, I make usrepeat that over and over and
over and over again.
SPEAKER_00 (33:03):
Hey, and for you missionaries going out, every
single day you will havecompanion study.
Take advantage of it.
That's my two cents.
But point is, every single dayyou repeat your purpose as a
missionary, which is that.
Did you know that?
In Preach My Gospel, the veryfirst page says your purpose,
and it has it italicized, and ithas your purpose as a
(33:23):
missionary.
So do
SPEAKER_03 (33:24):
that.
And it says, lead souls toChrist through faith,
repentance, baptism, and get theHoly Ghost.
SPEAKER_00 (33:28):
And you repeat it every day.
I
SPEAKER_03 (33:29):
mean, I love that because I didn't have preached
my gospel.
I'm the old person.
But we knew that the purpose ofa missionary is to lead souls to
Christ through faith,repentance, baptism, and get the
Holy Ghost.
So I love that the new book, themanual, says that
straightforward.
Okay, so it says here, but if yereceive me in the world, which
again is...
Here's how you receive God inthe world is through Christ,
(33:51):
through faith, repentance,baptism, and the Holy Ghost.
Then shall ye know me.
So again, back to this greatdilemma thing.
If you're not in his presence,if you're not around God, then
you don't know God.
The only way to get to know Godis to get into his presence.
And the only way to achieve thatis to coming unto him through
faith, repentance, baptism, andget the Holy Ghost.
Ye shall know me and shallreceive your exaltation, that
(34:13):
where I am, ye shall be alsoexalted.
SPEAKER_00 (34:18):
Yes!
SPEAKER_03 (34:19):
Now go to 24.
SPEAKER_00 (34:20):
This is eternal lives, to know the only wise and
true God, and Jesus Christ, whomhe hath sent.
I am he.
Receive ye, therefore, my law.
SPEAKER_03 (34:30):
So what's fascinating is it says, this is
eternal lives.
Usually in Scripture it says,and this is eternal life.
Here it says lives.
It's really odd.
Really, really odd.
It is.
It's so odd.
Yeah.
Now I'm going to read anotherscripture from Abraham.
This is the book of Abraham.
This is 326.
(34:50):
And it says, and they who keeptheir first estate shall be
added upon.
And they who keep not theirfirst estate shall not have
glory in the same kingdom withthose who keep their first
estate.
And they who keep their firstestate shall have glory added
upon their heads forever andever.
Okay.
So this is kind of complicated.
So listeners bear with us.
(35:12):
We're going to try and simplifythis.
And what we're trying to do hereis explain what exaltation is.
Because if we can understandthese verses and understand what
exaltation is and how it differsfrom salvation, then you'll have
a better understanding about whythe temple is so important.
And for you missionariespreparing, focus on the temple,
not just on your mission.
So we've just talked abouthow...
(35:34):
To come unto Christ, we knowGod.
We get back into his presence.
We know him.
But then he starts using thisreally interesting language.
He says, this is eternal lives.
And he says, this leadeth toexaltation and the continuation
of lives.
And he says, if you get throughyour first estate, or in other
words, come to Christ, they willhave glory added upon their
(35:55):
heads forever and ever.
So there's these two concepts ofglory and eternal lives that we
want to break down and help letus understand.
So, Preparing missionaries whenyou go through the temple.
Well, let's start back.
The reason the gospel of Christ,as simple as it is, is faith,
repentance, baptism, and thegift of the Holy Ghost.
(36:16):
The baptism and gift of the HolyGhost part are the covenant
part.
Your investigators, they have tofeast upon the words of Christ
to have enough faith that leadsthem to repentance.
Now they're ready to enter intoa covenant of Christ, shake that
hand, and enter into thatlocked-in covenant, and that
leads to salvation.
When you go through the temple,you're already saved.
(36:39):
Right?
Salvation is free.
It is free through Christ,right?
Once you enter the covenant.
But you're already saved whenyou go through the temple.
So what's the point of thetemple?
Why would you need it?
If you're already saved.
SPEAKER_00 (36:49):
To be exalted.
To
SPEAKER_03 (36:51):
be exalted.
You go into the temple toreceive how many additional
covenants?
Like if baptism is the firstcovenant.
SPEAKER_00 (36:59):
Well, and the endowment, five.
SPEAKER_03 (37:00):
Five additional covenants.
And then on top of the endowmentcovenant.
Getting sealed.
Getting sealed is the sixthcovenant, right?
So listeners, what we're talkingabout here is you're already
saved going into the temple.
What's the point?
Well, you go in to receive ahandful of other covenants that
are going to lead you to thepath of exaltation.
(37:22):
And the difference is, let'stalk about it.
Salvation is being at one.
You're already...
separated from God.
So salvation is becoming back atone with God, being able to come
back into his presence.
Exaltation is entirelydifferent.
So based on these words, Lauren,continuation of lives, eternal
(37:44):
lives, glory forever and ever,what is your thought on what is
then exaltation as compared tosalvation?
SPEAKER_00 (37:53):
I think about...
Just the entire plan thatHeavenly Father created for us
and how while we're here on theearth, it encourages our
constant progression, but alsoeternal progression.
Emphasis on the eternal partbecause when we enter into these
covenants, we can continue toeternally progress.
So after we've been saved, afterwe've received salvation, we
(38:15):
still have the opportunity toprogress because that's
essentially what Heavenly Fathercreated us for.
And
SPEAKER_03 (38:22):
we use those words a lot, progress.
But I think it's so hardsometimes, like, well, I don't
know what that means.
Does that mean I'm going tobecome smarter?
Does that mean I'm going tobecome, I'm going to have more
muscles?
Which is impossible, becauselook at me.
More muscles.
SPEAKER_00 (38:35):
Sorry, there was a bug on the microphone.
I was blowing it away.
SPEAKER_03 (38:39):
You got it?
What does progress mean?
Does it mean become smarter,taller, more buff?
Like, what does progress mean?
Well, I think these scriptureswe just read gave us the true
definition of what is eternalprogression.
Sure, it's probably more wisdomand it's smarter and all that
kind of stuff.
But these two phrases, glory,which we're going to have to
(38:59):
define now, and eternal lives,those two things we have to
define and that'll help usunderstand what eternal
progression truly looks like.
Because we do believe that ourGod, our Father in heaven, the
creator of all, is continuing inhis glory.
Right?
Joseph Smith said it this way.
When Jesus Christ died and thenrose again and overcame sin and
(39:23):
death, what he did was he tookhis kingdom now, which he is in
control of, and he presented itto his Father.
And all of that glory raised upour Father even further.
And Jesus Christ takes hisplace.
Glory upon glory, eternalprogression upon eternal
progression.
(39:44):
And so the concept here withglory upon glory is, Lauren,
your God, your father loves youso much that when it says he's
prepared a throne for you andthat all that he has is yours
through Christ, I think whatthat, I mean, you tell me, I
think what that literally meansis his intention for you, his
daughter, is to glorify you tohis station, right?
(40:07):
which then in turn, as youpresent that to Christ and he
presents that to the Father,does what?
Glorifies him with more glory,raises him up even more exalted.
There's the word.
So exaltation means if I'm at alevel and I am given more power,
more glory, more knowledge, andI'm lifted up to the next level,
(40:31):
I am being exalted to that nextlevel.
So glory has something to dowith this thing, exaltation.
But the more important word iseternal lives.
So let's talk about that.
What do you think that means?
Eternal lives.
Why does it say eternal lives?
And why in scripture does it saya synonym for the word God or
our father is eternal?
(40:52):
Like, so God's life, eternallife is God's life is what the
scriptures say.
I don't know.
So this is a concept that's sofascinating, Lauren.
So listen, in order for you tobe exalted and get all this
glory, you have to enter intothese additional five covenants
and then ultimately you must, itis required for you to enter
into the new and everlastingcovenant of marriage.
(41:17):
Sealed.
SPEAKER_00 (41:18):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (41:19):
Right?
So why do you think theordinance of sealing, the
covenant of sealing is necessaryfor you to be exalted?
In the context of continuationof lives, How can you continue
in life?
How can you continue lives?
You
SPEAKER_00 (41:34):
on
SPEAKER_03 (41:34):
your own.
SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
Posterity.
SPEAKER_03 (41:37):
By becoming a creator, right?
So if we are separated from Godin that we're unworthy, but
Christ gets us back into hispresence.
And if we're also separated fromGod and we're not like him, but
the plan is to become like him,you must become a creator.
You have to become a creator.
And the way to do that is youget married and sealed for all
eternity and you get endowedwith the power to continue
(42:02):
lives, to continue to createlife.
SPEAKER_00 (42:05):
So you're not even being exalted for your own self,
but also for your posterity.
Holy crap.
What did you just say?
That's actually crazy.
Say that
SPEAKER_03 (42:12):
again.
SPEAKER_00 (42:13):
You're not only being exalted for yourself, but
for your posterity.
SPEAKER_03 (42:17):
So that is it.
That's the essence of it,Lauren.
SPEAKER_00 (42:20):
Whoa.
I never even thought about that,which...
Oh my gosh, it's actually socool because I feel like on
Saturday sessions of GeneralConference, they talked so much
about protecting your posterity.
I feel like there were a coupledifferent talks that I listened
to and one of them, hold on, Ihave a list of notes, but one of
(42:40):
them, forgive me because Idefinitely do not remember whose
this was, but he had posed thequestion, what will you pass on
to the next generation?
And I was thinking about that.
I was like, oh.
obviously I don't have anothergeneration below me right now,
but I was like, when that timedoes come, what am I going to
pass on to it?
Am I going to pass the privilegeand the blessing of being sealed
(43:04):
and receiving this exaltation?
That's
SPEAKER_03 (43:06):
it.
You are passing upon yourposterity exaltation.
That's it.
It's so powerful.
It's so amazing.
Yeah.
God doesn't just want to saveus.
In fact, listeners, you're goingto be fascinated to learn this.
Whether you land in thecelestial, terrestrial, or
telestial kingdom, you're saved.
That's salvation.
(43:27):
So people who were bad people,who eventually either suffer for
their own sins or turn toChrist, they're saved in one of
those kingdoms.
That is the definition ofsalvation.
That's fascinating, right?
You don't want just salvation.
You want exaltation.
That is God's intention for us.
That is the purpose of thechurch.
(43:47):
That is the whole point.
He wants you to be like him.
You're his daughter.
I'm his son.
He wants us to live the life helives, and he lives a life of
creation and a continual,eternal growth of lives.
Prosperity?
What?
SPEAKER_00 (44:06):
Posterity.
SPEAKER_03 (44:06):
Posterity, thank
SPEAKER_00 (44:08):
you.
Prosperity.
SPEAKER_03 (44:09):
And that's why Joseph Smith says you can't be
exalted without your ancestors.
And that is why in the latterdays in 2025, the main thing
that happens in...
Conferences, new temple, newtemple, new temple, new temple.
Because we are doing the workfor those ancestors of
exaltation.
We're exalting each other byserving each other and adding
(44:32):
glory upon glory.
Because the more of yourposterity that you save and
bring to exaltation, that's moreglory for you.
Christ and that's more glory forGod and it's growth and more and
more.
It's continuation of lives andexaltation and glory.
It's amazing.
Now, listeners, I know this is acomplicated concept, but we
wanted to try and get youexcited about this idea that you
(44:55):
are not in your own journeycoming to Christ just to be
saved.
You're coming to Christ to beexalted and the temple is what
gets you there.
So focus on that.
Go get ready to And spend somuch time studying those
covenants that you're enteringinto in the temple that are
leading you to exaltation.
And then go get excited aboutleading others on your mission
(45:18):
for that.
SPEAKER_00 (45:19):
And I will say as a missionary too, one of the
biggest mistakes that I madethat I saw other missionaries
make was the lack of focus ontemples before a baptism.
I remember it wasn't until maybemy fourth or fifth transfer that
I finally got it locked into myhead.
I'm like, Oh, they need tounderstand this.
Like they need to know thisbefore they're baptized.
(45:41):
Cause then, you know, you getthem baptized and you have 30
days, get them to the temple.
That's the goal.
30 days, get them there.
And being able to explain andteach the plan of salvation in a
way that makes them excited togo to the temple, to fulfill
their potential and as a childof God and to help others come
(46:02):
unto Christ.
Because it's always so fun whenyou teach people and they just
get on fire with their gospeland they just want to share it
and share it and share it.
And you're like, okay, wait,here's a way that you can do it
for your family.
How you can do it for peoplethat you personally, maybe not
personally know, but that areconnected to you in some way,
shape or form.
And you talk to them about thetemple and how they're doing
(46:22):
their own missionary work.
I remember one of our friends,we were teaching the plan of
salvation and we were talkingabout the spirit world.
And he was just blown away.
He's like, what?
So you're telling me if I getbaptized and I follow Jesus
Christ, I get to teach peopleabout it even after I'm not
alive anymore?
I'm like, yeah.
(46:42):
He's like, wow.
And he actually said somethingthat was so sweet, but he was
like, Heavenly Father must loveme a lot.
And he kind of sat there andthen he goes, wait, Heavenly
Father must love all of us alot.
It was really precious, but itmade me think just What a
merciful God that we have toallow us the opportunity to have
(47:03):
this continuation of lives, tohave this answer to a great
dilemma that is so great that itwould truly end us without it.
Thinking about it, I'm justoverwhelmed with gratitude, but
also joy thinking, wow, I havemade...
I've had...
you know, experiences in mylife, I've made choices that
have led me to where I am on thepathway to exaltation.
(47:26):
And the thought process is, whatam I going to do to keep getting
there?
And so I think that's especiallyimportant for missionaries,
preparing to go while they'reserving and when they come home
as well.
I know this podcast is mainlycatered towards those preparing
to go and maybe those serving,but also throughout it all, one
thing that I wish I had kept inmy mind more was How can I
(47:48):
continue this path and how can Ihelp others get onto it?
Kind of like what we talkedabout in the beginning.
How can I help others takeadvantage of the atonement and
use it to its fullest ofabilities?
How to utilize it?
And I love that I can be livingproof that the atonement works.
I love that I can be livingproof that there is a God who
has a perfect plan for us.
(48:08):
And although my life isn'tperfect, I'm not perfect.
Not all my choices are perfect.
My character isn't either,but...
I'm doing all these things toreceive the greatest blessing
that God has for me.
And in the process, I get tohelp other people do that as
well, which brings you a type ofjoy.
I'm telling you guys, missionarywork, dang, I spent like 19
(48:29):
years of my life searching forthis joy.
And I was like, come on, I justneed this eternal joy.
I need this lasting joy.
I need to find out whathappiness feels like, what, you
know, eternal life is going tofeel like sharing the gospel.
seeing other people makecovenants that bring them closer
and understand what they mean toHeavenly Father, that is joy.
And there's no greater place tofeel it than in the mission
(48:52):
field.
SPEAKER_03 (48:53):
What a perfect way to end this episode.
Thanks, Lauren.
And that was powerful, thatwhole testimony.
And I'll add to it.
I was reading, just we'll endwith this.
For it says, now if we be deadwith Christ, he's talking about
baptism.
Was that a bummer?
SPEAKER_00 (49:09):
Sorry, keep
SPEAKER_03 (49:12):
going.
So he's talking about baptism,Paul is.
And he says, when you're buried,it's like you're dying.
So it says, now if we're deadwith Christ, we believe that we
shall also live with him, beingraised from the water with him.
Now, knowing that Christ beingraised from the dead dieth no
more, death hath no moredominion over him, for in that
he died, he died unto sin once.
(49:34):
But in that he liveth, he livethunto God.
Likewise reckon ye alsoyourselves to be dead indeed
unto sin, but alive unto Godthrough Jesus Christ our Lord.
I'm so grateful.
I'm so grateful that we got togo and come to Christ ourselves
and then go lead others toChrist to receive this great
news.
(49:54):
And the goal is exaltation andit is pure joy like you said.
Lauren, awesome episode.
Awesome.
I'm going to go home and go readthat talk because it is what all
this is about.
Go do your homework.
Yeah, go read.
Go study.
Go get ready for your mission.
Get ready for your temple.
That's the most important thing.
All right, until next time.
See you.
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