The Spirit and Power Through Witnessing - Elder Thacker Jackson

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In this episode, Shawn sits down with the "giddy" Thacker Jackson, who is eagerly preparing for his mission to the Georgia Atlanta North Mission, Spanish speaking, commencing in October. This conversation delves deep into the journey of mission preparation, highlighting the pivotal role of revelation leading to conversion.

◦ Consistent Gospel Study: He became an active participant in a seven-week mission prep course, attending it "eight, nine, 10 times" over four years, totaling around 70 classes. Thacker emphasizes that he felt the Spirit every time, learning new things and engaging in uplifting discussions that kept him "on fire".

◦ Impact of Mission Stories: A crucial part of his preparation involved listening to the mission stories of others, including his father's bedtime stories, the host's experiences, and those shared by ward leaders. These stories inspired him, showing him the "light," "power," and "joy" that came from serving a mission.

◦ Line Upon Line, Precept Upon Precept: Thacker highlights the principle from 2 Nephi 28:30, explaining that his spiritual growth and convictions were not a single grand event but a steady accumulation of smaller spiritual experiences. These "line upon line" moments built a strong spiritual foundation.

◦ Service and the Holy Ghost: He recalls feeling the Holy Ghost during acts of service, such as "heart attacking" (leaving paper hearts with kind messages and treats for others) and administering the sacrament to the elderly. These experiences taught him that "service is good and it makes you feel good".

• Shawn's Mission Preparation Story:

    ◦ Seeking Conviction: Shawn describes his initial "lukewarm" approach to the Church and his desire to move beyond passive belief to truly know if the gospel was true.

    ◦ The Mountain Motif: He recounts his intentional journey up a mountain, symbolizing effort, seclusion, and seeking a "higher, pure perspective". There, he prayed for answers to four specific questions: if God lives, if Jesus Christ lives, if Joseph Smith was a prophet, and if the scriptures were true.

    ◦ Revelation Through Desire and Action: Initially, he received "nothing" on the mountain. However, an overwhelming desire to read the scriptures "stirred" within him – an answer from God to "go learn of me". This led to months of diligent scripture study and prayer.

    ◦ Confirmations in Sacred Spaces: Shawn received a powerful confirmation of Jesus Christ's existence in the celestial room of the Salt Lake Temple, connecting back to his earlier mountain prayer. Later, in his mission field in Ukraine, while walking among literal "mountains" of dirt from coal mines, he received a clear revelation of God's existence.

• Thacker's Powerful Culminating Experience:

    ◦ Witnessing Under Pressure: Just two weeks before this podcast, while out cliff jumping at night with friends (to evade police, as it's not illegal but deemed unsafe), Thacker found himself in two spiritual discussions. First, with a drunk woman who asked if they were Christian, and later with a friend who had drifted from the church and questioned its doctrines.

    ◦ Bearing Testimony, Gaining Knowledge: Despite feeling unprepared to answer complex doctrinal questions, Thacker bore his simple testimony: "I know God the Father lives. I know Jesus Christ lives and was resurrected. I know Joseph Smith was a prophet and I know the Book of Mormon is true".

◦ Profound Revelation: In that very moment of declaring these truths, Thacker experienced a profound, undeniable spiritual confirmation. He states, "I know without a doubt in my mind that this is true... I believe it with all my heart". He couldn't stop smil

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
I was sitting in the backseat like, dude, what I just
said, it was true.
Like I was losing my mind.
I had been praying up to thatpoint.
I'd had this question in my mindlike, Holy Father, I've lived
this my whole life, baptizedtoday.
Like I've done this my wholelife.
I think it's true.
Like I think I believe it, buthelp me to know that I know it's

(00:22):
true.
And as I'm sitting there in theback of this seat, I was like, I
know without a doubt in my mindthat this is true.
What I just witnessed to myfriend was true.
I believe it.
I believe it with all my heart.
And I can't describe it, dude.

SPEAKER_00 (00:43):
Welcome back to Mission Stories Podcast.
Today's going to be a fun onebecause we've got a giddy dude
here.
He's giddy.
Why are you giddy?
don't know life's great but whyexplain why you're so happy and
giddy to be here doing this orjust life in general or what

SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
yeah life's great and i'm feeling the spirit i
don't know dude

SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
we have thacker here thacker jackson the man i've
known you for what three yearsthree three or so years and
you've gone through various andamazingly different haircuts
over the years all of which areamazing what do you call your
haircut style man it's likebright yellow is your hair what
do you call your haircut stylesover the years

SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
Innovative.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19):
Oh, innovative.
All right.
When you came back, you went onsome summer trip and you came
back and it was like...

SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
Oh, you liked that?

SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
I loved that.
My mom hated it.
What was that called?
Chandler's Special.
The fro is what it was.
Was it?
I mean, it was cool.
All right.
That's awesome.
Okay.
But you're giddy.

SPEAKER_02 (01:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
I'm stoked.
Take one more chance or one moretry at explaining.
Why are you giddy, man?
I'm...
Like, why am I

SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
excited all the time?
Why

SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
are you excited all the time?
I mean, something's happening ina few months for you.
Oh,

SPEAKER_01 (01:51):
okay.

SPEAKER_00 (01:51):
What's happening?

SPEAKER_01 (01:52):
I have been recently assigned to labor in the Georgia
Atlanta North Mission, Spanishspeaking.
Oh.
Could not be more excited.

SPEAKER_00 (01:59):
Does that play any role in you being giddy?

SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
little bit.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
But there are a couple other things we're going
to talk about today aboutreasons why you're giddy.
I mean, I tend to be giddy allthe time, like annoyingly, like
excitedly, enthusiasticallyhappy all the time.
And I feel like sometimes I gotto be careful, man.
Like I got to pull it back orelse this annoys people.
But it's good to be in a roomwith other people who are
annoyingly giddy and happy,right?
It's good.
It's good.
Good.

(02:25):
So today we're going to talkabout probably definitely
principle two, which isrevelation leads to the
conversion, right?
Conversion for you listening outobviously, what we define it as
is you as a missionary are goingto go out and you have one
purpose.
That's to lead souls to JesusChrist, our Lord and Savior.
And the way to do that, hetaught, is you can only come to
Christ through faith andrepentance and baptism.
And then you receive the gift ofthe Holy Ghost, which is the

(02:47):
baptism of fire.
And we proceed all of thatprocess by saying revelation is
like a necessary ingredient.
And we're going to get into thattoday.
And why that's a mission prepprinciple for those listening,
it's because if you A, if wedon't understand that concept,
how can you lead others to doit?
And B, if you don't understandthe concept, then you're not
doing it.

(03:08):
So the idea here is this is amission prep principle because,
man, do it, right?
Because we all have a journey toour missions, those of us
preparing.
And as we prepare, well,actually, that's what we're
going to talk about today is themission preparation journey.
And we're going to talk aboutyour stacker and we're going to
talk about mine.
And today I'm excited because atthe end of this episode, you're

(03:29):
going to share an experiencethat happened to you two weeks
ago.
Now, we would never stop and belike, all right, dude, you've
arrived.
The most important experiencethat you'll ever have, it's all
downhill from here.
Like that one thing thathappened is the peak.
Obviously, as you go throughlife, you're going to have more
and more and more powerfulexperiences.
But this one felt pretty big,didn't it?

SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
Like this

SPEAKER_01 (03:49):
one felt really

SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
big.
Like this is a big one.

SPEAKER_01 (03:51):
And

SPEAKER_00 (03:52):
so what we'll do, listeners, is bear with us
because we're going to shareThacker's mission preparation
story.
We're going to share details ofmy mission preparation story.
But in the end, in the end, like40 minutes from now, Thacker's
going to share an experiencethat he had two weeks ago when
he told me, he told me about itlike two days ago.
I'm like, are you kidding me,man?
Like, it's just pure joy.

(04:13):
So hold tight, listeners,because that's what we're going
to culminate into today.
And then we'll share why it'simportant.
Yeah, it's good.
Okay, so.
Thacker, you are going on amission in October.

SPEAKER_01 (04:24):
Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 (04:25):
Yeah.
Georgia.

SPEAKER_01 (04:26):
Georgia.

SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Spanish speaking.
Yeah.
Okay.
So when, when I'm going to askyou some questions about your
mission preparation experience.
So when would you say, I mean,we met each other like three,
maybe three, four years ago.
You're 15, 16.
Yeah.
Something like that.
Yeah.
I was about 19, 20.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And in that, at that time, Well,how would you say, I mean,

(04:48):
you've always had good parents.
You've always been a good kid.
So obviously we all are doingthe little things in primary, in
young men's or in young women's,right?
Those organizations are helpingus get there.
But then there's a point like wetalk about in principle one,
where we go from passivedecision-making to active
decision-making.
And we have to own our decisionsat some point.

(05:08):
Would you say that journeystarted for you about 15, 16
years old, kind of?
Yeah.
Would that be accurate?

SPEAKER_01 (05:14):
Yeah, I think

SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
it could be accurate.
Because what kind of things wereyou doing?
I'll ask you this.
When did you first become awareof, for example, my mission prep
course that you started taking?

SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
I first heard about your mission prep course.
I was in the stake youth counciland the leaders there were like,
hey, there's this mission prepclass and it's really good.
Everyone tell your Everyone tellyour youth that you're in your
wards to go.
And I was like, I'm a leader.
I should probably go.
It's probably my job.
I guess I'll go.
That's

SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
kind of passive.

SPEAKER_01 (05:48):
Yeah, and I showed up, and it was awesome.
It was so cool.
I felt the spirit every time,and I would go back every week,
and I was learning new things.
I was thinking of things Ihadn't thought of before, and it
was this awesome discussionevery single time where you're
just like– feel so uplifted.
Like there's just somethingabout a spiritual discussion and

(06:09):
especially a spiritualdiscussion with people who are
on fire and people who are hotthat like, it's like no other.
Like it's just...
It's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 (06:17):
So you did, you came.
I remember we met and you werewith a bunch of friends and
you're friends with my son andwe're doing this.
And I immediately remember youguys just being engaged and just
being into it.
Now it's a seven week course.
And so you guys went through theseven week course and I was
like, that was awesome.
These kids are listening.
They're applying this stuff.
They're young, 15, 16.
I'm like, oh, that's good.
They went through the courseonce.
Hopefully they'll remember thosethings.

(06:39):
You and your friends haveremembered them partially
because Over the next fouryears, how many times did you
come back to the course, theseven-week course?

SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
About 10.

SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
Yeah, like 8, 9, 10 times?
Like 10 times?
That's 70 times, 70 classes yousat through for mission prep.
Why?
Why did you do that?

SPEAKER_01 (06:57):
I can feel the Spirit every time, and it's
just, you're learning about thegospel, and...
It's just more Jesus.
Everyone

SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
loves more Jesus.
I mean, I can definitely saythat even though these lessons
are every seven weeks repeated,we did try and change them up a
little bit.
And I felt that pressure everytime you guys came because I was
like, holy cow, they're back andthey've gone through this again.
But I do love that I could seein your heart and in the other
kids' hearts, you guys werethere to learn.

(07:26):
You guys were there to engageand participate.
And so we all did collectivelylearn more as we went.
Okay, so this was a part of therole of your mission prep,
right?
Going to this series?

SPEAKER_01 (07:36):
Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 (07:38):
And now at the same time that you were in this State
Youth Council, you had gottenyour patriarchal blessing, you
told me.
Yeah.
Okay, tell me about that.
Because this has to have a rolein your mission preparation
journey.

SPEAKER_01 (07:48):
Yeah, totally.
I received my patriarchalblessing.
And I remember, like, everyone,I think everyone's patriarchal
blessing is awesome, right, tothem?
Like, it's personal scripture.
Like, what's cooler than that?

SPEAKER_00 (07:56):
If you believe in it.
Yeah, if

SPEAKER_01 (07:57):
you believe in it and if you're faithful to it.

SPEAKER_00 (07:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (07:59):
It's personal scripture.
What's cooler than that?
And I remember when I first gotit back, he handed me the paper
copy, and I'm reading it athome, and I reread it a couple
times.
And there were, like, a fewthings that kept jumping out me
and they all pertain to amission and I was like oh
alright I guess I'm called likeI don't have my call yet I
haven't received my letter fromthe first presidency but I have
my call I've like I've beencalled to serve and I was like

(08:21):
alright

SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
I'm going that was it I love that perspective I've
never heard it told that way youread it in your patriarchal
blessing you believed in yourpatriarchal blessing that it was
revelation from God for youenough to where you read the
words you're going to serve amission and you're going to
learn a language you're going todo all these things and you
concluded holy cow, God haschosen me.
He called me already.
I don't know where it's going tobe.
I'll find out in like three orfive years.

(08:43):
But you felt called at thatpoint.
That's awesome.
Okay, so at that point, youobviously were like, all right,
well, I'm on a path then.
I'm on a path to get ready forthat.
Okay, so what are some of theother things you've done?
Because you've attended MissionPrep Series 70 times.
That's incredible.
You believed in your patriarchalblessing.

(09:03):
Yeah.
Okay.
What other things have you donefor your mission preparation
journey?
Or what principles and ideashave helped you along the way?
Because I'd say you areabsolutely ready to go.
I'd say you are very, veryprepared.
Thank you.
Which is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
Some things that help me prepare.
Something that I feel likehelped me make that decision to
go on the mission of not justlike as a decision is called,
but like to get excited about itis seeing other people that I've
looked up to.
Like looking up to you.
looking up to the leaders in myward, looking up to my dad,
who's just these awesome people.
And I'd hear these stories.
I'd hear them like my dadtelling bedtime stories about

(09:39):
his mission.
You telling your stories fromyour little wave an arm thing
that you've got going on there.
Youth leaders telling storieslike in class.
And I would just hear them and Iwas like, this is awesome.
Like I want this.
Like I can see the light thatwas emanating from them and I
could see the power and effectit had on their lives.
And I could see like the joythey had with like just

(09:59):
everything.
And I was like, that's what Iwant i want to be just like that

SPEAKER_00 (10:02):
you know how the scriptures talk about like when
people are born again like it'snephi or it's alma and they have
the mighty change of heart andthey just go i just i just want
to be an angel flying throughthe air and just like a trumpet
proclaiming it to everyone and iwant to be on the top of a
mountain just proclaimingrepentance and faith because of
the joy i feel having been savedby the savior that is for those
of us who have had theselife-changing amazing mission

(10:23):
experiences that's what it isfor us we do want to just sound
the trump and just proclaim itto everyone be like thacker just
get ready be prepared and servewith your heart my mind and
strength it is pure joy you'regonna love it like i just heard
one of the early episodes on thepodcast was from uh uh this guy
uh what's his name oh dang

SPEAKER_01 (10:43):
carter

SPEAKER_00 (10:43):
carter carter carter uh burrup yeah and every week i
hear his his i read his emailshe is on fire Because in his
preparation process, he came tofaith, which led him to
repentance, which made himrealize that those covenants
that he made through baptismlead him to receiving this gift
of the Holy Ghost.
And he is on the rooftopsproclaiming this, and he has

(11:04):
pure joy, and it is just socool.
They're having so much success.
It's incredible.
You guys are part of thegeneration.
We heard from one of theapostles a couple months ago
that we are in an era wherethere are more convert baptisms
than there's ever been in any12-month period.
You're in that group.
Carter's in that group.
And part of it is because ofthis excitement.
So, okay, so I might bring allthat up because you're saying

(11:24):
you are grown up in a house withyour dad.
And your dad, this good manwho's willing to share on the
rooftops with his kids thesestories about his mission.
And you listen and go, I wantthat.
That sounds amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, definitely to pausehere, for those of you who are
listening who are parents,right?
And your concern as parents isyou want your kids or your ward

(11:47):
kids, you want them to havethese amazing experiences.
Share your stories.
Man, how important have thesestories been for you?
So

SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
much.
It may not look like they'repaying attention.
Sometimes they might be a littlebored, but I can promise you
that they'll remember it andthey'll love it.
And I felt the spirit every timesomeone would talk about it.
And it was just so like...
It was just so inspiring.

SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
There you go.
There you go.
So parents, please share yourstories with your kids.
Or if you don't have thosestories, go find people who do
love sharing them with passionand with spirit and bring in the
principles of the gospel inthose stories.
Go find those and get your kidsto listen to them.
That's what this is about forus.
Mission Stories.
Mission stories so that you feelthe inspiration, you feel the

(12:35):
Holy Ghost in those stories.
So, okay.
So part of your missionpreparation journey was you were
kind enough and humble enoughand good enough to listen to
your dad and to listen to mystories and to come to my class
70 times and to go to your, beactive in your ward where you
can hear people sharing theirstories.
So good for you for being humbleand listening and good for your
leaders for sharing.
Like awesome, awesome, awesome.

(12:56):
Okay, what else?
What else?
You talked a little bit.
There's a scripture you wantedto share in 2 Nephi.

SPEAKER_01 (13:01):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (13:01):
This applies too, right, to your mission journey,
your mission preparationjourney.

SPEAKER_01 (13:05):
2 Nephi 28 verse 30.
I love this one so much.
For behold, thus saith the LordGod, I will give unto the
children of men line upon line,precept upon precept, here a
little, there a little.

SPEAKER_00 (13:17):
Okay, so what you're saying here, I'll guess the
interpretation before you teachus.

UNKNOWN (13:22):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (13:22):
What are you saying?
Your, your convictions,conversions, change of heart,
feeling the spirit, gettingrevelation.
It didn't all happen at once.
You didn't just like wake up oneday and go, you know what?
I've been called to go on amission.
All right.
Give it to me, Lord.
Give me all the answers.
Give me all the light.
Give me all the, the, the spirityou're saying for you line upon

(13:43):
line.
What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
Yeah.
Um, the story I'm about to shareor the story you want me to
share in a little bit.
Um, it didn't, It didn't justcome to pass by one day just
waking up and having this grandexperience.
I had little spiritualexperiences the whole time, and
I feel like that's what mostpeople have.
You read your scriptures in themorning, and you're like, hey,

(14:05):
this feels nice.
This feels good.
I like this.
Or I'd come to your class, andI'm like, this is right.
This is good.
I like this.
But it doesn't have to be agrand experience every time, but
it's just one on the other, likeone foot in front of the other,
and you're building upon it, andit's building this foundation
of...
spiritual experiences

SPEAKER_00 (14:24):
and so when you after you've had this what we'll
talk about at the end of thisepisode this big experience you
look back at your life and youcan see many i don't know even
if the word is smaller but justmany other like like little
experiences that line up onlineyeah right they grow they grew
as you went and you learned asyou got repetitive experiences

(14:46):
So this is the line up on line.
What are some of the things thatyou remember?
When do you remember feeling theHoly Ghost or learning something
that hit you to your soul?
You don't have to give specificexamples.
For me, the first memory I haveof feeling the Holy Ghost, I
remember feeling it at mybaptism.
I remember feeling it atDisneyland.

(15:07):
I'll never forget, dude.
We walked out of the car, likemy whole family, and we're
walking through the parking lotto Disneyland and there's just
excitement.
Now what I love about this ofthis story is it's easy to be
like, you weren't feeling thespirit, dude.
You're just feeling emotions.
You're just excited.
But now I'm old and I know I candiscern what is Holy Ghost and
what is not.
And I remember in that parkinglot vividly feeling the Holy

(15:30):
Ghost.
Now, was it because we were atDisneyland?
That's what I thought for a longtime.
That is not the case.
The most vivid memory I have iswe were walking out in the
parking lot and I looked to theleft and And my mom and dad were
there.
And I looked to the right, mybrothers and my sister were
there.
And we were together doing thisfun and exciting thing.
That is what I felt the spiritover.
It wasn't Disneyland.

(15:52):
It was that.
And so these little experienceslater on when I really learned
to discern the Holy Ghost, I hadthese little teeny little line
upon liners that grew myunderstanding.
Yeah.
So what else, what kind ofexperiences can you remember?
Like at what times did you feelthe Holy ghost?
You said one, you would hearyour dad or a leader share a
mission experience and you'd belike, I want that.

(16:12):
You didn't want that.
Cause cognitively you're like,that sounds cool.
You felt something, right?

SPEAKER_01 (16:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (16:17):
So what else?

SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
Totally.
Um, I, I remember my mom would,um, used to heart attack people.
We still do, but not as much.
Um,

SPEAKER_00 (16:27):
What is heart attacking?
Heart

SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
attacking is awesome.
What is that?
For people out there, it's agreat way to do service.
You find someone in the ward whocould just use a little love and
you cut out hearts out of paper.
We do it like this.
We cut out hearts out of paper.
We write nice messages andsometimes we bake brownies and
we just go put them all over thedoor.
And I just remember like feelinggood.
I was just feeling cool.
Like this is, I like this.
Like this is nice.
I'd like to keep doing

SPEAKER_00 (16:50):
this.
Who initiated that?
Your parents did?

SPEAKER_01 (16:51):
Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
my mom.
I love this.
I keep hearing, I don't knowyour parents very well, but I
keep hearing stories like thisand I'm like, They did it right,
man.
They know they're doing.
So what about that do you think,what about that caused your
father in heaven to go, I got tosend communication to Thacker,
my son, to his heart right now?

(17:12):
What do you think he was sendingto you?
Why?
Why during those kinds ofthings?
What was he teaching you atthose times?

SPEAKER_01 (17:16):
I think he was telling me that what I was doing
was right, and service is good,and it makes you feel good.
Man,

SPEAKER_00 (17:21):
you listeners out there, here's the crazy thing.
If you just, like Thacker justsaid, one day I remember being
in Provo after the mission, andme and my mission buddies were
like, you know what, guys?
Let's just forget ourselvestoday.
Let's just go out and findsomething to do, someone to
serve.
And so we just walked outside,walked up the street, found a
house whose yard was kind ofmessy, knocked on the door.
There was an old lady.

(17:42):
Hey, we would like to serve youtoday.
Guess what we felt that wholeday?
We felt so peace, so much peace,so much joy.
The Holy Ghost was present inour heart that whole day.
Yeah, service.
Go serve.
I love it.
Okay, so

SPEAKER_01 (17:56):
good.
My favorite thing about being apriest is taking the sacrament
to the elderly and to theshut-ins.
At first, I was kind of aprideful and kind of a punk kid.
Oh, man, I could be napping.
I could be eating cereal rightnow at home.
And then eventually, I kind ofgrew into it.
I started seeing how much itmeant to these people.
I started feeling how much it...

(18:17):
like affected them.
And I was like, wait, this iskind of cool.
Like, I love this.
And I love talking to thoseelderly ladies and they were so
sweet.
And it was, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (18:26):
But little, little by little line up online, pretty
certain ways you started feelingthe Holy ghost and all of these
things.
And that was helping you in yourpreparation because it was
leading you towards somethingthat happened a couple of weeks
ago that we'll talk about.
Okay.
Okay, good.
Any other thoughts that you wantto share about your mission
preparation journey?
You've been proactive.
You've also been reactive to, Togood parents and good leaders

(18:47):
doing good things, but you choseto react to those things in good
ways.
You chose to accept the Spiritand the service and all those
things.
Yeah.
So anything else you want toshare about your mission prep
journey before I start sharingmine, and then we get to
ultimately where your journeyhas culminated to?

SPEAKER_01 (19:05):
No, I want to hear yours.
I want to hear this.
You're good.
I want to hear this.

SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
Okay, well then, so...
You know, I think I was likeyou, just a little more
lukewarm.
Because you seem, on thelukewarm, hot and cold spectrum,
you seem pretty hot.
And you seem like you have beenmost of your life, which is so
impressive and so amazing.
I was that way, but I was alittle more in the middle, a
little more lukewarm.
Like, I never did anythingreally crazy, crazy, crazy,

(19:30):
crazy bad growing up.

SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
No criminal record.

SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
Maybe.
I don't consider that bad,though.
Like, come on, man.
Like,

SPEAKER_01 (19:37):
no.

SPEAKER_00 (19:38):
No criminal record.
But...
I definitely wasn't doinganything like super, super,
super good.
Like you were definitely servingmore than I was.
You were paying attention moreto your leaders than I was.
I was just kind of lukewarm andlike loved the world, right?
So I remember it got to thepoint where I was sometimes

(19:58):
happy and sometimes not happybecause that's what happens when
you're lukewarm.
If we want true happiness, wehave to consciously choose to
follow the Lord and do theprinciples and to read the
scriptures and to pray.
And because I wasn't doing that,sometimes I would kind of be
around family or do things thatwould be happiness, and other
times I'd be really sad andmiserable.
That's what lukewarm does,right?
So I remember going, okay, Iguess I'm going to serve a

(20:20):
mission I'm expected to, right?
But then I got bothered by thatkind of passive decision-making.
I'm like, why would I just do itjust because?
And I made a decision one day.
I'm like, okay, how about this?
I said, my life is pretty danggood right now.
I got a good girlfriend.
I'm in a punk band.
And we had just done a show, meand my brother in this punk
band.

(20:41):
And we had just done this showwhere they were like, I'm
guessing, I'd have to ask mybrother, but I'm guessing 80, 90
people showed up.
Which was big, man.
For us, that was big.
Like a house

SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
show?

SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
That was a house show.
We rented out a big old cabinand there was like 80, 90 people
there.
And we were like, this isawesome.
You were the next

SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
Nirvana.

SPEAKER_00 (20:57):
We thought we were.
We thought we were.
We hoped we were.
We were not.
But I'd just done that show.
I had this girlfriend.
I had a job.
I had a little bit of money.
My family was awesome.
I had like everything good.
I had a car, all that stuff.
And in that case of like whatthe scriptures call carnal
security, I'm like, yeah, Idon't know, man.
Life's good.
And so should I go?
Should I not go?

(21:18):
And I remember sitting down andgoing one day, you know what?
How about this?
If I'm going to go, I'm notgoing to do it fakey.
I'm not going to do it like justbecause.
If I'm going to go, I'm going todo it right now.
and I'll be the best missionaryever.
But I don't really wanna do thatunless I truly, truly know that
the things that I'm gonna preachare absolutely true.

(21:38):
All this stuff that I've learnedmy whole life, I've kind of
received it passively, acceptedit passively.
I need to know for myself.
Like Nephi says, I desire toknow for myself.
And my soul started to hunger.
Okay, so there's this themethroughout scripture and in my
kind of process, my mission prepprocess, it revolves around
mountains.
Let's talk about mountains for aminute, okay?

(22:00):
Cool.
So there are story after storyin the scriptures about
mountains.
I kind of made a list of abunch.
So like Moses on Mount Sinai.
Actually, let's go back evenfurther.
Adam and Eve in the Garden ofEden.
Although it possibly wasn'tgeographically a mountain, but
it's considered kind of thisexclusive kind of its own space,
its own zone, wilderness-y kindof thing with this tree at the

(22:21):
peak in the center.
It's kind of a mountain.
Then you take Moses on MountSinai.
He ascends to Mount Sinai wherehe sees God face to face.
This bush, he describes it as aburning bush.
I don't think there was a bush,and I don't think there was any
fire.
I think those are his inadequatewords trying to explain the
spirit of God burned within meas I communed with him.

(22:41):
Okay, now remember that,Thacker, because in a few
minutes as we talk about yourstory, I'm going to ask you to
describe your story and what youexperienced and felt.
Moses is trying to experiencehis communing with God, with
Jehovah, He calls itface-to-face.
I believe he maybe sawsomething.
But the true thing thatconverted him was what he was
experiencing in his heart up onthis mountaintop.
So we'll get back to that.

(23:02):
Elijah.
Elijah was a prophet, one of myfavorite prophets.
And he was fleeing from Jezebel,and he travels to Mount Horeb, I
think that's what it's called,which is Sinai.
It's the same mountain.
And on top, I'll just read itreal quick because this is
awesome.
At top, he says...
And he says, Go forth and standupon the mount before the Lord,
said the Lord to Elijah.

(23:22):
And behold, the Lord passed by,and a great and strong wind rent
the mountains, and break inpieces the rocks before the
Lord.
But the Lord was not in thewind, and after the wind an
earthquake.
But the Lord was not in theearthquake, and after the
earthquake a fire.
But the Lord was not in thefire, and after the fire a still
small voice, which is describedas the Holy Ghost.

(23:43):
Those big things on thatmountaintop didn't matter, these
physical things, but then hefelt the Holy Ghost.
There's still a small voice, andthat's what pierces him to the
soul.
Anyway, I'm digressing.
Okay, they got Abraham on MountMoriah where he has his...
His moment where he learnedabout the Savior, Jesus Christ,
I think more than anything, I'massuming, which is when he had
to sacrifice his son and thenthe Lord intervened and stopped

(24:03):
it and his faith thing there,right?
So he's up on the mountain.
There's story after story.
When Jesus Christ was on theearth, he was transfigured up on
the top of a mountain.
He took Peter, James, and Johnin the high mountain and was
transfigured and Moses andElijah came to him.
And the father's voice said,here's my beloved son, just like
he said to Joseph.
Okay, Jesus prayed on themountains over and over again,
like in Luke 6 and in Matthew, Ithink it's like 16, 14, 15.

(24:24):
He often went into the mountainsand prayed by himself
exclusively.
So I'll stop here because allthroughout the Book of Mormon,
there's mountains.
There's Nephi.
He went up on the mountain.
Enos went into the wilderness,kind of like on a mountain.
So before I tell you this themeof mountains, what do you think,
Thacker?
Why?
What do mountains have to do?
By the way, the Temple of theLord is called the Mountain of
the Lord.
Oh,

SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (24:45):
So what do you think?
Why is...
Why are mountains frequentlyused, before I tell you my
story, why are they frequentlyused as places of communion with
God?
Or is it symbolic?
Is it practical?
It's like, oh, it'sgeographically higher.
Or is it closer to God?
Like, what do you think?
Just interested in yourthoughts.
Just shooting off

SPEAKER_01 (25:04):
the hip?
Yeah.
I think they're hard to get to.
You've got to put in work to getthere.
You cannot just do like a jaunt.
up a mountain.
I've done a few hikes myself,and they're not easy.
So to get up a mountain, you'vegot to put some effort in.

SPEAKER_00 (25:19):
Look at the wisdom, dude.
So you're saying that if I seekout God, there needs to be
intention and effort anddiligent work to get there.
Yeah.
Ooh, dude, that was deep, man.
That was deep.
And I think some of the othersymbolisms are like, I mean,
okay, there's the geographything.
We are drawing near to heaven aswe ascend, right?

UNKNOWN (25:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
There's leaving behind the noise and the
corruption of this world, okay?
There's secluding yourself,which is what Joseph did, right?
He didn't necessarily go on amountain, but when he went in
that grove of trees, he wasleaving the noise and the
temptations, the pulling inevery direction of the world to
go someplace quiet, right?
There's the seeking a higher,pure perspective.

(26:05):
That's mountains.
Any other thoughts on themountains?
Yours was great, man.
That was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
Yeah.
I think there's something sospecial about nature.
Like whenever I'm like, wheneverI'm on a mountain or whenever
I've got like a pretty view,like I feel the spirit.

SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
Okay.
So there's a nature element toit.
But I think the culmination ofall of those things, right?
It took you effort to get there.
I love that visual dude.
Cause you, well, I'll sharemine.
Okay.
So I lived in the mountains ofNorth Utah at the time.
My parents had moved me fromDenver where I grew up to my
senior year in Ogden.
That was an angsty time becausemy senior year, I didn't know
anyone, but they lived on thisbeautiful mountain.

(26:38):
And so at this time when I waslike, okay, I'm lukewarm.
Look, if I'm going to go, I needto find out.
I need to get hot or cold.
I'm either out and I'm going tobe a punk hero forever and I'll
get married to this girl andI'll be a rock star or I'm going
to stop all that and I'm goingto go and leave all that and go
on my mission.
I need to be hot or cold.
I was sick of being lukewarm,right?
So the first decision I madewas, and I don't know, maybe
this was the like creative inme, but I was like, I need to

(27:01):
find myself a mountain.
I need to go seclude myself.
I need to leave, and I need tobe intentional in my effort to
go seek God.
So there's this mountain behindthe house.
I'm like, all right, I'm goingto hike up top, and I'm going to
do this.
I'm going to go up there to seekGod, and I'm going to make a
deal with him.
I'm going to ask him fourquestions.
And if he answers me at the topof that mountain, not only will

(27:22):
I go on a mission, but I will bethe greatest missionary that
ever lived.
So I started hiking, Thacker,just step by step.
And I remember thinking at thetime what you had just said.
Well, it's kind of hard.
Like, I don't know why I pickedsuch a steep slope.
Why am I going up this mountain?
I could have just gone to mybedroom.
But that made me think, okay,well, no, keep going.
Like, be intentional.
Like, seek God and go up.

(27:43):
So I'm glad you said that.
That was amazing.
But as I got up to the top ofthe mountain, I wanted to ask, I
wanted four things.
I wanted to know, I was going toask God, God, do you live?
Reveal yourself to me.
I want to know that you exist.
Like, I believe it, but I wantto know.
The scriptures say you can know.
Two, I want to know that JesusChrist exists.

(28:04):
Reveal him to me too.
Joseph had it.
I want it.
Number three, I want to knowthat Joseph Smith was a prophet
because it all kind of boilsdown to that.
If he was, it all makes senseafter.
If he wasn't, no.
And then I wanted to know notonly if the Book of Mormon is
true, but if the Bible is true.
I wanted to know if thosescriptures were trustworthy, if
they were from God or if theywere just something man had

(28:25):
created.
So Thacker, I went up.
I went up because I wanted toknow.
And I get up at the top of thatmountain and For the first time,
I prayed vocally like Josephdid, and I asked God.
I said, I'll be the bestmissionary.
I'll go, but only if you tell methese things.
And so I asked specificallythose four things.

(28:45):
Doctor, guess what happened?
You know how clouds sometimesgather, and then when they open
up because light is comingthrough, and then angels with
wings?
No, nothing like that.
I was shocked, dude, becauseguess what happened?
Nothing.
Nothing.
Nothing.
I got no answer.
I got no thoughts.
I didn't even get feelings.

(29:06):
No spirit that I felt atDisneyland.
No spirit that I felt at home.
Nothing.
So I was like, I'm just notpraying long enough.
Let me pray longer.
And guess what came?
Nothing.
Nothing.
So out of like complete, like,wow, you know what?
I'm kind of really shocked anddisappointed because I kind of
like expected that this wouldhappen.
I was going to see God face toface at this moment.

(29:27):
So I stood up and I confused andsad.
started walking down that hill.
And as I walked down the hill, Iquestioned, like, what gives?
Like, I'm doing what I'msupposed to do.
And because the answer wasn'tcoming, I was very, very
confused.
And then something reallyimportant happened.

(29:48):
Something started to stir.
I like the word stir in myheart.
I think back and somethingstarted to stir.
Like, I felt something happeningin my soul.
And this overwhelming desirestarted to swell up in me.
To do what and thing?
Take a guess.
I know this has picked my brain.
That's not fair to ask you.
What do you think God would wantme to do?

(30:09):
I wasn't doing anything.
Remember I told you that.
I was lukewarm.
Take a guess.
What do you think God would wantme to do and tell me to do?
I know you have to pick my brainhere.
I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 (30:18):
I'm going to go with read your scriptures.

SPEAKER_00 (30:20):
Dude, I, for the first time in my life, had this
overwhelming desire swelling upin my heart to get back to that
house and open up the very booksthat I just asked God to tell me
were true.
I'd never read them really, yetI'm up there asking God, tell me
these are true.
Like literally, why didn't Godjust say, well, tell me what's
in it first and then I'll tellyou if it's true or not.

(30:41):
And I would have been like, Idon't know.
So you're right, dude.
Good guess.
So going down that mountain,this swelling, obviously, which
I didn't recognize at the time,but obviously that was the Holy
Ghost.
God wasn't going to just give methis answer that I didn't really
work for or earn or have enoughfaith to receive.
But in his loving kindness, hedid put into my heart this.

(31:02):
He answered my desires, at leastmy request.
And he says, go, go learn of me.
So Thacker, what are youlaughing at?
That's the coolest story I'veever heard.
But, oh, well, wait, you got tohear what happened.
Maybe I rejected it, dude.
Maybe I didn't follow through.
But I did.
I did.
All right.
I did.
I went back down to my house andI opened up the scriptures,
like, intently for the firsttime.

(31:22):
And I even knelt down andprayed.
Like, help me understand thisstuff.
Like, I do kind of want tolearn, right?
And so I read for, like, 30minutes.
And I closed the book and I saidanother prayer.
And I was like, that wasdifferent.
I'd never done it that waybefore.
And I felt this swellingcontinue to grow.
And so, like, a few hours later,I was like, I'm doing that
again.
So I did it again, but I readfor like an hour that time.

(31:43):
The next day, I read for liketwo hours.
The next day, two hours.
I'm reading and I'm praying andI'm reading and I'm praying.
And Thacker, the beginning of myjourney starts on that mountain
where I asked the question andgot no answers, but God gave me
really the answer that I needed,which was a desire to Or at
least to build on the desirethat I had.

(32:05):
Remember when Nephi says, evenif you have just a bit of a,
even if you don't believe, butyou have just a desire to
believe, plant that seed.
And what do you do with thatseed?
How will it grow?
You got to feed it.
You got to water it.
Yeah.
And how do you feed and waterthat seed of faith?
It's your scriptures.
It's scriptures, dude.
You got it.
Prayer and scripture, prayer andscripture.

(32:25):
So over the next few months, Istarted reading and praying and
reading and praying.
Now, at the time, my best friendwas Trent Stock.
Trent, shout out, man.
This dude's awesome.
My favorite dude on the planet,besides my wife and my kids and
you, Thacker.
Thank you.
Sorry.
I appreciate it.
So Trent Stock in high school inDenver, he was a year older than
me.

(32:45):
This dude was a punk, and hewon't be mad at me telling this,
but punk, like did nothing good.
That's not true.
He was a great kid, but did alot of bad things.
So he graduates, and we kind oflose touch.
And I'm at home, and then Igraduate, and I'm doing through
this process of mine.
And he calls me out of the blueand he's like, Sean, get up here
to Denver, live with me andlet's prepare for our missions.

(33:06):
I'm like, dude, you're not goingon a mission.
What are you talking about?
He's like, I'm not kidding,dude.
I'm going on a mission.
You're not, dude.
You've never even like beenstrong in the church.
What are you talking about?
He's like, Sean, I've beenrepenting for a year and I just
got permission from the generalauthorities to go on a mission.
I'm like, what?
So sure enough, I'm like, yeah,dude, I'll come out.
So I went out there and everyday for months, we would just

(33:28):
wake up early, go work at thegolf course, but we'd wake up
and I walked upstairs and Trentwas there with his Book of
Mormon and he's reading at 5a.m.
We'd get home and he'd open uphis book and he'd read.
So he was doing the things thatI'm like being inspired to do.
So together we start doing thesethings.
Thacker, Spirit, spirit thewhole time, just power when

(33:49):
you're reading and feasting uponthe words of Christ and the
spirit is there.
Okay, so fast forward.
We're all in, both of us.
He gets his call and he leaveson his mission.
I put my papers in.
I'm going on my mission.
Like I'm just stoked.
And it's not because I got thosefour answers.
I didn't get any of thoseanswers, but I just have this
burning in my spirit of justlike go, go, go.
I love the scriptures.
I'm feeling the spirit all thetime.
Okay, now I get my call.

(34:10):
Ukraine Donetsk.
Awesome.
Where it's time for me to go getmy endowments out.
So I go get my endowments out inthe temple.
Amazing spiritual experience.
Just beautiful.
Well, we have this traditionwhere my grandparents, they had
worked, they served in the SaltLake Temple at the time.
So we scheduled the time where Icould go through with them.
So we go there.
Have you ever been there?
Not the Salt Lake.
You're going to love it when yougo, when it's done.

(34:33):
So there's this tradition wheremy grandma, we would go through
the whole session and we'd go upinto the celestial room.
And my grandma would always situs down and she would tell this
story.
You ready for this story?

SPEAKER_01 (34:46):
Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 (34:46):
Okay.
So keep in mind this mountaintheme, because where are we?

SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
Mountain of the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 (34:51):
Mountain of the Lord, right?
We are in the mountain of theLord.
My journey starts on thatmountain in like Ogden area.
And now I'm in the mountain ofLord in Salt Lake.
So here's the story.
My grandma would be in thesocial room and we sit down.
She takes us to the seat and shesays, look behind us.
And there's this door.
She says, that Sean is the Holyof Holies.
That is where the prophet goes.
Like, oh, that's cool.

(35:12):
That's really cool.
She says, well, there's thisstory where I think it was
Wolford Woodruff and somethingwas happening at the time where
the prophet was sick and he wasnext in line to become the
prophet.
And so he just, he knew he'd benext.
He didn't want it.
So apparently he got permissionto go up into this Holy of
Holies and to pray to the Lordand to seek his guidance.
And really his message to theLord is I'm not ready for this.

(35:33):
I can't do this.
I can't.
And after pleading and praying,my grandma says for a long time,
he didn't get any visitations,any messages, any nothing.
So just like me, he stood up,confused, walked down those
stairs, came into the celestialroom, and now my grandma stops
me and put her hand on myshoulder.
And she points down the hall tothe left.
She says, see that hallway?

(35:53):
She says, according to WilfordWoodruff, maybe it was Lorenzo
Snow, I don't remember whichone.
According to the prophet,walking towards him was the
Savior Jesus Christ.
Like there, standing there andwalking towards him.
And my grandma told me thatstory.
You know what my first reactionwas?
No.
There's no way.
There's no way.

(36:13):
Like the Lord and Savior, JesusChrist, stood five feet from me.
God himself stood five feet fromme.
There's no way.
But you know what scriptures hadtaught me all those months?
That if I have questions ordoubts, what do you do with it?

SPEAKER_01 (36:26):
Open your scriptures.

SPEAKER_00 (36:27):
Well, you open your scriptures.
And what did the scripturesteach Joseph when he had
questions and doubt?

SPEAKER_01 (36:31):
Ask the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 (36:31):
Ask.
So I said, hey, Grandma, that'san amazing story.
And in my mind, I was like, Idon't think I believe that.
But I learned in the scripturesthat I can know for myself.
So I...
got away from my grandma, wentover to the corner, sat down in
a chair, and I had a verysincere prayer.
I says, God, is that true?
Did literally Jesus Christ stand20 feet from me in this very

(36:52):
temple?
And my mind flashed back towhat, six months, a year earlier
when I was on that mountaintop.
And I asked God the veryquestion, reveal yourself to me,
but reveal Jesus Christ to me.
I want to know that he lives.
And I remembered that Questionthat I asked God, and sitting in
that chair when I asked, did theprophets see and stand with

(37:13):
Jesus Christ here?
At that moment, Thacker, I feltarms around my whole body.
I felt the peace and the joy andthe fire in my heart, and I know
they were Jesus Christ's.
I got an answer.
Jesus Christ lives, he knows me,and he surrounds me with his
love that forgives me.
And I, in that moment, receivedan answer to my prayer that I

(37:35):
asked months earlier.
Okay, so fast forward now.
I'm in the MTC, glorious time.
I get into the mission field,glorious time.
I'm six months in my mission,working like crazy, Thacker,
talking to everyone, having justjoy, success, building the
kingdom of God on earth amongstthe Ukrainian people, just the
most greatest experience.
And one day we were teaching aguy named Bogdan, this cool like

(37:57):
hippie communist.
And this dude was awesome.
And he was keeping hiscommitments and we were feeling
the spirit.
I was just on fire and he was onfire.
Now in that city of Mikheyevka,That's a coal mining city.
Everyone's a coal miner.
And back when the communistsbuilt the coal mines, they'd dig
underground miles and miles.
Well, they didn't know what todo with all that dirt.
So you know what they did?
They just put them in piles.
And so you'd walk around andthey're called terakani.

(38:18):
I don't know why they're called,that's Russian for cockroach.
I don't know why they call themcockroaches.
But there are certain areas inthe city where you just have
these giant mountains and youcould just walk through these
hills and these giant mountains.
Okay, theme, you picking up thetheme?
All right.
Okay.
So I finished this meeting withBogdan and I'm walking home
along these train tracks throughthese Terakani, these big

(38:40):
mountains.
And I'm telling you, Thacker, Ijust was so fulfilled with joy.
Like I just kind of realized atthat moment, no, what am I doing
here?
This is the most amazing thing.
Like I feel the spirit everyday.
I'm teaching the work of theLord.
I'm helping people come toChrist.
I just feel so much joy.
And I remember Thacker walkinghome looking in the sky and just

(39:01):
said to my father in heaven,thank you so much.
Like, I'm so happy.
And in that moment, Thacker, mybrain went back a year and a
half earlier, a year earlierwhen I was on that mountain and
I had asked God the question,reveal yourself to me.
And in that moment, I heard withnot my physical ears, but I

(39:21):
heard him say my name and thespirit burned within my heart.
And in that moment, Thacker, Iknew God lived.
I knew it.
He revealed himself to mebecause I had asked, right?
Okay, so I won't go into theother two answers that I did
get, but this mountain themewhere I'm seeking the Lord,

(39:42):
putting in the effort, and goingto these mountains and receiving
these answers to my prayers,these revelations, these come
after much labor.
It is line upon line.
It is precept upon precept,right?
They are.
It always is.
But when we ask specificquestions and when we seek God,
he promises that he will changeour hearts and he will send us

(40:05):
the Holy Ghost.
Okay, now let's round back toyour story,

SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
huh?

SPEAKER_00 (40:09):
Let's round back to your story because a couple
weeks ago, you were like, dude,I got to share this story with
you.
Something happened.
Finally, something happened.
I'm like, all right, sweet,dude, tell me the story.
And then we missed each otherand couldn't connect and then
didn't connect again.
And then three days ago, we werein mission prep for your like
10th round, right?

(40:29):
Yeah.
And you came up and you're like,dude, I got to tell you my
story.
I'm like, oh, you're good, ofcourse.
Tell me your story.
And I'm expecting somethinglike, I don't know, Thacker.
My buddy picked up the Book ofMormon.
I was like, dude, that's a goodbook.
I'm like, oh, cool story.
I didn't know what to expect,Thacker.
I didn't know what to expect.
Then you dropped on me thisstory.

(40:50):
Okay, go into it.
What happened?

SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
The long version from the very start?
Sure.
Okay.
So there is a spot around whereI live where we can go cliff
jumping, and it is awesome.
The local police, however,disprove of it.
And so if you go during the day.
It's not illegal.
It's not illegal.
They just think it's unsafe.
They just think it's unsafe.

SPEAKER_00 (41:12):
Got to preface your spiritual story by you weren't
breaking the law.

SPEAKER_01 (41:15):
Yeah, we weren't breaking the law.
But if you go during the day,they will politely ask you to
leave.
So we have made it a habit ofgoing at nighttime.

SPEAKER_00 (41:22):
To evade the police.
Got it.
Good start.
Good start to the story,

SPEAKER_01 (41:25):
man.
Yeah.
It's kind of a hike to getthere, and we were walking
there.
It was me and three buddies.
We were walking down, and we metthese ladies in the golf cart,
and they– They were so drunk.
It was hilarious.
But they were– can we comewatch?
Yeah, sure.

(41:45):
And so they're driving with us,and they're just talking to us,
and we're talking back.
And eventually one of them goes,are you guys Christian?
My buddy's like, he's Mormon.
He points at me.
I was like, oh, thank you forpointing that out.
I thought that was hilarious.
And I was like, yeah, I'm LDS.
I just got called to Georgia,and she was like, oh, my gosh.
And she started asking all thesequestions.
I was like kind of able to havethis cool conversation.

(42:06):
I was able to answer a few ofher questions.
Um, but I just, I didn't doeverything.
I like, I didn't answer herquestions the way that I fully
wanted to, or I don't think likeI answered them properly or I
don't think I like brought thespirit in.
Like I just, I don't know.
It just kind of bugged me.
And so we did, we did our jump,we had our fun and then we're
walking back.
Um, and one of, one of thebuddies that was with us has

(42:32):
kind of drifted away from thechurch for his own reasons.
And so, um, We kind of got onthis spiritual discussion, and
we were talking about it, and...
Yeah, we were talking about thechurch, and he was just bringing
up some points that he was like,you know, I liked the church,
but I just had problems with X,Y, and Z.
And he would come up with theseproblems, and I would kind of

(42:53):
ask him about them, but I'm nobishop.
I'm 18.
Like, I'm stoked for the church,but I know nothing.
This is church history stuff.
Yeah, church history stuff, likedoctoral stuff, and I'm trying
to answer them the best I can.
I'm no bishop.
I'm no Sean Record.
Yeah.
And so I'm trying my best.

(43:13):
And then we get in the car, andhe brings up a few more things.
I remember we got in the car,and I said a prayer.
I was like, Heavenly Father,help me to just stay strong and
just to not let this shake me,to let this conversation affect
me.
I could see where it was going,that he was kind of dogging on
the church at this

SPEAKER_00 (43:31):
point.
Yeah, it's painful, right?
Yeah.
Especially at this point.
You're preparing for a mission.
You're excited about it.
And now he's asking all thesequestions that— You know,
necessarily you've never divedinto before.
And so it's like, I

SPEAKER_01 (43:39):
don't, I don't need a faith crisis.
Right.
Um, and so you're driving andhe's talking and he's talking
and eventually I just go,listen, dude, I, I don't know.
I don't, I don't know theanswers to your questions.
I'm flat out.
I got no clue, but I do knowthis.
I know God, the father lives.
I know, um, jesus christ livesand was resurrected i know

(44:04):
joseph smith was a prophet and iknow the book of mormon is true
and he was like yeah and and hekept driving and i i just
remember like he kept talking idon't even know what he was
saying at this point i wassitting in the back seat like
dude what i just said it wastrue like i was losing my mind i

(44:24):
had been praying up to thatpoint i'd had this question in
my mind like heavenly fatherI've lived this my whole life,
baptized a date.
I've done this my whole life.
I think it's true.
I think I believe it, but helpme to know that I know it's
true.
And as I'm sitting there in theback of this seat, I was like, I
know without a doubt in my mindthat this is true.

(44:46):
What I just witnessed to myfriend was true.
I believe it.
I believe it with all my heart.
And I...
I can't describe it, dude.

SPEAKER_00 (44:55):
Okay, so in the process of you witnessing or
sharing your testimony aboutthese things that you believe
in, you said in that moment,something happened in your
heart.
What was happening?
What were you experiencing?
What were you feeling as youwere proclaiming these truths?
And when you stopped proclaimingthem and turned inward, what did
you feel?
It just like, it just

SPEAKER_01 (45:16):
worked.
It's like the

SPEAKER_00 (45:18):
best.
So do your best to express tothe listeners what worked.
What did you feel?
What was the experience?
Did you feel like, what was itthat you, like, was it an
emotion?
Did you want to cry?
Did you feel angry?
Did you feel happy?
Was it an emotion at all?
Or was it something not anemotion?
Was it something that wasperhaps what you were learning
line up online all those yearsand experiencing all those

(45:40):
years, yet it was culminating tosomething more powerful and more
direct and more, a more clearrevelation.
Like we'll explain how peopleknow.
And this is where I brought in afew, like 20 minutes ago, I
said, we told the story of Mosesand how he went up on that
mountain on Mount Sinai, saw Godface to face.
And then he says, basicallyexplains like there was a bush

(46:01):
and it was burning.
I kind of think though, whetherthere was a burning bush or not,
those were the ways that he waslike, okay, just like you were
like, I don't know.
It just worked.
I'm just up here.
So there's something happeningin my soul where I just know
that this is God.
I know that this is God.
And the words he used, usedwhich were kind of weak where i
don't know it's like burninglike fire all around like a bush

(46:22):
is on fire i don't i personallydon't think there's a burning
bush i think he was trying toexpress what he was experiencing
in his heart as god revealedhimself to him which was the
power of the holy ghost yeah andthe best words he had was uh a
burning bush like there'sburning going on that reminds me
of the story in luke uh of thetwo disciples on the road to
emmaus These two disciples arewalking after the death of

(46:45):
Christ.
And then he was resurrected andthey're like, we didn't see him
resurrected.
And so they're walking andthey're sad and they're upset.
Like he was our savior.
Now he's dead.
He's gone.
And then they said, he's gone.
They took his body.
So like, we don't, what do wethink?
And then little by little,slowly, this other man started
walking with him who happened tobe the savior, but their eyes
were closed.
They didn't know it was thesavior.
And the savior says, why are youwalking?
Why are you sad?
What are you two discussing?
That makes you so sad.

(47:05):
Oh, don't, where have you been?
Are you a stranger?
There's this man and he wassupposed to be our savior.
Now he's dead and gone.
And then Jesus Christ on thiswalk starts quoting from the
very beginning every singleprophet who has ever testified
of the Savior.
And he's sharing these.
And by the time they end, theseguys are like, holy cow.
But it's getting dark.
And they says, hey, we're at thecity.
Come with us.
It's eventide.
Come to dinner with us.

(47:26):
So he did.
They perform the sacrament,Christ does, and then he
disappears.
And as he disappears, their eyeswere opened.
And then the words that theysaid were this.
Did not our hearts burn withinus as he walked to us upon the
path?
and share with us thescriptures.
Burn within you, like what doyou mean?
So again, these inadequate waysof expressing what they were

(47:48):
feeling in their hearts.
Then we talked about Elijah upon the mountain and there was
fire and there was wind andthere were earthquakes, but the
Lord wasn't in those.
What was the Lord in?
He's in

SPEAKER_01 (47:57):
the still small

SPEAKER_00 (47:57):
voice.
The still small voice.
Now that's also an inadequateway to express what he was
feeling, but the way Elijahdecided to express it was, he
was trying to compare it tothese big mighty things The
earthquake, the fire, the wind.
And he's trying to say it wasmore powerful than those things.
But it was still and small andsweet.
There's this powerful joy I feltin my spirit.

(48:19):
So Thacker, it's your turn.
Try your best.
What words do you use?
They will always be inadequate,right?
Because you had a spiritualrevelation from the almighty
God, from his spirit to yourspirit.
And your flesh and my fleshcan't comprehend that in our
mortal ways.
Do your best.
What did you experience?
Was it Still small voice?

(48:40):
Was it a rushing mighty wind?
Was it a mighty change, aburning in the bosom?
Was it, you do your best to useyour words.
You know what Joseph said whenhe saw God the Father and Jesus
Christ?
He said, their brightness andtheir glory defied description.
That's the best way he couldexpress the spirit he was
feeling.
You try.
What did you feel in thatmoment?
It was like

SPEAKER_01 (49:01):
this joy, confidence in the Savior.

UNKNOWN (49:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:09):
It's impossible to describe.
It's so

SPEAKER_01 (49:11):
hard.
I remember I couldn't stopsmiling.
I do remember that, and I gothome so happy.
I

SPEAKER_00 (49:20):
mean, the way Lehi tried to express it in his
dream, The Tree of Life, was itwas sweeter and tastier and
brighter and more joy than I'dever felt, and he wanted it for
everyone else, which is whereyou're at now, right?
You're going to go on a missionto Georgia, and you just want
everyone to feel what you felt,right?
Yeah.
It's just because it is purejoy.

(49:41):
So it reminds me of that storythat I've told about the way I
kind of won my wife over tomarry me.
I won't tell the whole storynow, but we found ourselves in a
car and I was just kind of like,I really like this girl, but
there's no way I'm going tomarry this girl.
So I was just like, I'm going tobe myself.
You know what, Kristen, can Ishare with you a story that I
read the scriptures thismorning?
And I read the story of JosephSmith.
I told her, hey, I've alwaysbeen frustrated with the way he
described his first visionbecause he says, I saw God and I

(50:03):
heard God.
I'm like, the scriptures don'tteach that that's how we know
God lives with our eyes andears.
It says it's through the HolyGhost.
I was like, Joseph, what a lostopportunity.
But then I shared with my wife,my future wife, how that morning
I received an answer about, no,Joseph did say, when he said
their brightness and their glorydefied description, he was
literally saying, I can'tdescribe the powerful

(50:25):
brightness, glory, I don't knowwhat other words, that the Holy
Ghost was confirming to me in myheart that this is God and the
Son.
So I looked at my wife and said,Kristen, if Joseph knows this,
that God lives and that JesusChrist lives, not because that
he saw him hurt him, but becausethe Holy Ghost told him, then I
know exactly what he knows.
I know God lives just aspowerfully as he does.

(50:46):
And I looked at my wife and shewas crying because she's like,
Sean, if you know and he knowsthat way, then I also know.
I'm like, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 (50:55):
That's

SPEAKER_00 (50:55):
like...

SPEAKER_01 (50:57):
That's worth so much.
It's worth so much to you, I'msure, and it's worth so much to
me.
I was thinking about this theother day.
I would rather have nothingmore.
This knowledge that Christexists and that he loves me in
my imperfection, it's awesome.
And it means so much to me.
Dude,

SPEAKER_00 (51:16):
Thacker, I'm so grateful that you come and you
share your story.
I'm grateful that you do thework over all these years to get
to this point where...
You can stand now on a rooftopon a mountain anywhere and
proclaim, I know God lives, notbecause I told you or because
your dad told you or because thescriptures even said it.
You know because God the Fatherrevealed himself to you through

(51:38):
the power of the Holy Ghost.
And that's the promise to anyone of you listening.
The scriptures promise that ifyou will seek him out, knock and
ask and feast, God promises thathe will reveal the truth to you.
And we urge you, right Thacker?
We urge you to do that.
Seek it out.
Because when you get it, youwill be happier and feel more of

(51:58):
God's love and feel forgiven ofyour sins.
And you'll just want to take itto the rest of the world and
serve a mission in the rightway.

SPEAKER_01 (52:07):
It is without a doubt one of the best feelings
in the world.
Like the best feeling in theworld to just feel that spirit
and that knowledge.
Like there's nothing like it.

SPEAKER_00 (52:18):
Okay, so last question before we end.
What are you going to do withthat, Becker?
What are you going to do withthat, and what advice do you
have for our listeners who aretrying to prepare for their
mission?
I'm going to go share it withpeople.

SPEAKER_01 (52:28):
I'm going to go share people my experience and
hopefully try to explain thegospel in a way that brings the
spirit.
And if I have to sing to them intheir living room while need be,
I'll do it.

SPEAKER_00 (52:40):
Do you remember the story of Peter?
I think it was Peter, right?
The women come and say, hey,Christ is gone.
Like they've taken him.
And they jet and they run downand they see that the tomb is
open and they see he's gone.
And I think at some point someof them felt the Holy Ghost
realizing they didn't take him.
He's resurrected, and they turnaround, and they booked it.
He ran to tell his friends.
He ran to tell the world.

(53:01):
Jesus is risen.
He's risen, and that's how youfeel.

SPEAKER_02 (53:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (53:07):
You do.
You need to run to the people ofGeorgia, and you need to not
stop, man.
You need to serve with all yourheart, heart, mind, and
strength, and I know you will.

SPEAKER_01 (53:12):
I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_00 (53:13):
I'm so excited for you, man.
And then the other piece ofadvice, or what piece of advice
do you have then for ourlisteners?
You learned...
You received answers to yourprayers and to your seeking
through a very specific way.
You bore witness.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (53:31):
I think there's a lot of power in a testimony.
There's tons of power in apersonal testimony.

SPEAKER_00 (53:37):
Just in saying the words?
Yeah, just in saying the words.
Even if you just are trying tobelieve the words and say them.

SPEAKER_01 (53:41):
Yeah.
Sometimes I've had this fearlike, I don't want to be a
hypocrite.
I'm not totally sure I'mbelieving this stuff.
I've had those exact samethoughts.
But when you say it, it...
it confirms to you that whatyou're saying is true and what
you like, you truly believe it.
And so you, you don't feelhypocritical.
You feel like more truthful thanyou could possibly imagine.

SPEAKER_00 (54:03):
But just like you put in the time over the last
three years, line upon line,precept upon precept, and just
like I needed to walk down thatmountain and start actually
doing the things that arerequired of me, reading the
scripture, serving others, thetestimony bearing is, may come
over time right but when we doproclaim the truth having done

(54:26):
the hard seeking with enoughfaith i promise you god will
answer and it's it is it's joyit is it's just pure joy

SPEAKER_01 (54:36):
this is so cool

SPEAKER_00 (54:40):
thank you the best dude i can't wait to to hear
about your mission we'll reportto our listeners your mission
story thanks for sharing it umand be gone in October, so we
will give people updates.
You're going to go help peopleget what you got.
Alright listeners, thanks forjoining.
We'll see you next week.