When Kristen Almer lost her 11-year-old nephew Logan in a tragic ATV accident, her family’s life changed forever. She then turned unimaginable grief into a mission to help prevent similar tragedies for other families. In this episode, host Heather Wilson Schiltz talks with Kristen about how that devastating loss led to years of research, difficult questions, and eventually the creation of the RideSafe Foundation.
This conversation goes far beyond statistics. Kristen explains the common patterns she has uncovered in youth ATV and UTV tragedies, why so many families don’t recognize the risks until it’s too late, and how RideSafe is working to reach kids directly through schools and community partnerships. From industry blind spots to practical ways communities can help, this episode offers an honest look at a problem that affects far more families than many realize.
🎧 What You’ll Hear in This Episode:
- The story of Logan and the tragedy that changed Kristen’s life
- What Kristen uncovered after years of researching youth ATV and UTV incidents
- Why many families using these vehicles recreationally don’t see themselves in traditional powersports safety messaging
- The common mistakes and overlooked factors that show up again and again in youth tragedies
- How RideSafe Foundation works with schools and communities to create hands-on educational events
- Why racers, athletes, and the broader powersports industry may be part of the solution
- How parents, schools, companies, and local communities can support the mission
📲 Connect with Kristen Almer and the RideSafe Foundation on LinkedIn
🌐 Learn more at RideSafeFoundation.org
🌐 Follow the RideSafe Foundation on YouTube, Instagram and Facebook
SPONSORED CONTENT: If you're a motorsports event organizer who wants more participants or attendees, your marketing and operations may be in need of a revamp. I help evaluate where you're at, develop a customized strategy, implement the tasks and assess the results. So if you're serious about getting more support, let's work together. Visit HighGearSuccess.com to get started.
SPONSORED CONTENT: If you're a racer looking to show sponsors how you can bring value to their company, visit HighGearSuccess.com to view services offered by High Gear Success for racers.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to Momentum, a motorsports podcast powered by High Gear Success.
I'm your host, Heather Wilson Schiltz.
Here we share the stories and strategies that keep the world of motorsports movingforward.
Today's guest is Kristen Almer, executive director of RideSafe Foundation.
So Kristen, thank you for joining me.
Thanks for having me.
(00:26):
we've actually had the pleasure, at least once, at a safety conference to meet in person,but uh we actually go back quite a few years now.
we've both been involved in motorsports for so long, so invariably we're going to runacross each other.
But yeah, uh I'm excited to hear about your new adventure also with this podcast, andwe're glad to be here.
(00:47):
Yes, thank you.
So kind of setting a little bit of back history for the RideSafe Foundation.
In 2013, your 11-year-old nephew Logan was tragically killed in an ATV accident.
So can you tell us a little bit about Logan and how that ignited something in you tobecome such a big advocate of ATV safety?
(01:08):
Yeah, um Memorial weekend, May the 24th, we were in northern Wisconsin getting ready for,you know, what you think is going to be a great, wonderful weekend.
turned out to be the worst day of our lives.
Yeah, Logan was, he was 11 years old and had gotten off the school bus, um you know, lastday of school for them.
(01:32):
AndHis dad's adult sized ATV was parked in the driveway.
The ATV had been on the property most of Logan's life.
His father was meticulous, particularly with securing the key and making sure that vehiclewasn't accessible to the children.
But on that particular day, he had the intention of teaching his older son how to ride.
(01:53):
So he had put it in the driveway with that intention.
And Loganwas able to locate the key while dad was at work and mom was on a walk and you know the
the babysitter was in the house and Logan got out and he was able to locate the key andstart that machine and Yeah, his his life was over within a matter of minutes.
(02:16):
It didn't take long You know, we don't know exactly what happened, but you can pretty muchascertain the details we know he started it and
hit the throttle and when he did Logan he it scared him you know it's a big powerfulmachine when he pinned the throttle and when he did that you know they have a fear
(02:39):
response when they're young like that they don't have experience and his fear response umhe you know tightened his grip on that throttle and he obviously was unable to locate the
brake or figure out how to let go of the throttleAnd he was accelerating down a very short driveway and he knew not to go into the county
road which you know intersected with the driveway he'd been told that many many times inhis lifetime and He had no option but to turn and he did that at a high rate of speed.
(03:11):
He had no gear he was Yeah, I mean he the tires slid clipped the edge of the asphaltcaused that ATV to flip up into the air and you know it came down and
Logan suffered a massive head injury.
Yeah, I feel like that's a very common fear response for a lot of different powersportsand not just in kids.
(03:33):
teach adults motorcycle safety classes and without the repetition and the knowledge andthe understanding so many times when people get afraid, they grab that throttle even more
instead of grabbing the clutch, you know, letting go of the throttle.
So I could definitely see how that would be a natural reaction for somebody that doesn'thave the education.
(03:55):
What was interesting is, you know, it was a horrifying situation.
I was one of the first family members to arrive on the scene.
And we just, I mean, it's so stunning that something like that could happen.
Try not to get emotional here.
It's just, it's so devastating.
(04:19):
It really is.
It's an awful situation.
And for me, I was thinking,I just couldn't imagine how it even happened.
didn't understand how could this have happened.
And that really, spiraled me into trying to figure out how to prevent it from happeningagain.
(04:41):
I think it's important to point out that when things like this occur, you don't just losethe child.
You lose everybody that you love.
You know, my brother became totally different.
His mother became different.
My nieces and nephews became different people.
We all shattered on that day.
(05:02):
And so a tragedy like this that is so preventable, but it's so devastating, we wanted toknow what, how do we stop it from happening again?
And that really was um what led me to try to figure out, what actually happened?
And my biggest question is the question that I have for me and it's the question I hopeall of us never have to ask and that is, what didn't I say?
(05:30):
What didn't I do?
And in order to figure out what that looked like, I had to know, what actually went wrong?
Well, I don't ride.
I've been involved in the sport for, at that time, 25 years as a consultant on thebusiness side of things, but I don't participate in powersports myself.
And so that led me on a long journey of uncovering how do these things happen.
(05:53):
It actually took me four and a half years before I finally got the answers to whatactually transpired.
And once I knew what that was and that I knew that there was a predictability to thesethings, that led me on a long, I mean, it's been 13 years of hard research, determining
exactly what occurs.
And once we have that, then we...
(06:15):
can teach people how to prevent that common cascade of fatal errors because in the vastmajority of these cases, there is a repetitive pattern of fatal errors that they're making
and it's not just one, they're making a series of fatal errors and it is the same patternover and over and over and over and over again.
(06:39):
And so that's the message of the RideSafe Foundation.
Our heart really is to reach children.
You know, many people try to encourage us to focus on talking to adults because theirnatural reaction is, you need to talk to adults.
And, you know, that's true, but there's plenty of information available for adults tointeract with and adults choose to ignore that.
(07:00):
And so the RideSafe Foundation does not spend time or money or resources trying tocommunicate with adults because that is already happening.
We focus on kids and so my heart was just, the thing that I still think of every singleday when we go to events is if Logan was right in front of me, what would we need to do to
(07:24):
help Logan to fully understand what would have protected him from that situation?
And so that's what we focus on.
we have a heavy collaboration with many experts in the field.
and we create very large scale events.
go directly to children at schools and teach them about ATVs, UTVs, dirt bikes,snowmobiles, watercraft, e-bikes, and we fit every child with a helmet so they know what
(07:51):
it feels like to have a helmet on their head that fits.
so we really have been uh accelerating our impact and our reach, but we have many, manyalliances.
This is not, we have our personal story.
but this is a story that's impacted over 4,000 families.
We've lost over 4,000 children in the United States to ATV and UTV related incidents.
(08:15):
And that is children 15 and younger.
So we're not even talking about children 16 to 19 because we can't track that data withany accuracy and have an accurate count.
But we know that we've lost 4,000.
children over that now in the United States since they started keeping records in theearly 80s.
(09:10):
For people that may not follow the safety data closely, what are some current statisticswhen it comes to youth, ATV or UTV injuries and fatalities?
on the fatality side of it, I can tell you that from January the 1st of 2020 throughDecember 31st, 2025, we have lost 711 children that are 15 and younger.
(09:36):
The American Academy of Pediatrics,They report anywhere from 40,000 to 55,000 children that are visiting the emergency room
every year because of incidents just on ATVs and UTVs.
So those are astronomical numbers.
We also know that if there is an injury that has been oh assessed and identified, childcomes into the ER and yes, they're injured.
(10:04):
The average cost of medical care for an injury is$274,000.
But 27 % of the children that are being admitted to the emergency room are beinghospitalized.
And the cost of medical care in those regards are in excess of $1.2 million.
So the cost to care for these is astronomical.
(10:28):
And the injury data that I just gave you, that is the official data that comes from theAmerican Academy of Pediatrics.
ButThose that data comes from a government organization that is a sister organization to the
Consumer Product Safety Commission and they they pull their data from hospitals that theyhave relationships with and then they extrapolate that data and they average it out over
the across the entire United States.
(10:54):
And so the data that I just gave you that 40,000 to 55,000 that is coming from 98hospitals.
There are over 6,000 hospitals in the United States and so and the data also comes fromhospitals with a minimum of six beds and 24 hours of care, which quite obviously the vast
(11:17):
majority of those hospitals are going to be in metropolitan areas.
Well, that's not where these accidents are happening.
So the reason I tell you that is there is a high likelihood and some law enforcementagencies and trauma specialists we talked to, they believe those numbers are two to three
times too low.
They think there arefar more people going to the ER children because of these incidents.
(11:38):
so what's so shocking is while those numbers are, I mean, they're really shocking numbers.
The question is, well, what are we going to do about it?
You know, it's one thing to talk about what the problems are and we do that because I'vespent the time and I've done the research and nobody has time to do the kind of research
that we've done at the RideSafe Foundation.
(11:59):
So we pull that data for you.
So that what we are hoping is that people go, wow, I had no idea.
And then once they get that position, the next question is, well, what's the answer?
What do we do?
Because just telling people that there's a problem isn't the solution.
The solution is then to go to the experts and figure out, well, how do we prevent thesethings?
(12:22):
And so we've got many, many allies in that respect as well.
But hopefully that helps you with some of the data.
Yeah, mean, data is so time consuming and so complicated to even find and understand andanalyze.
So that alone is a huge feat just for you to be able to do that and share thatinformation.
And of course, behind each of those numbers is, you know, an actual child, an actualfamily impacted.
(12:48):
And so sometimes we talk numbers and it, just seems like a number, but when you reallythink about it, I mean, that could be somebody that you know,
so yeah that definitely puts it in perspective.
are there certain age groups that are most at risk within the youth population?
Well, we know that children represent one out of every five ATV or UTV related fatality.
(13:13):
So to me, those are astronomical numbers.
mean, you know, don't, it's like children don't represent one out of every five snowmobilefatality or one out of every five motorcycle fatality or one out of every five boating
accident.
I mean, it's a disproportionate number.
Now we feel like we have, we've got a handle on it.
I mean,It's pretty obvious why that's happening and and and and there's there's something that I
(13:33):
think Nationally and particularly as an industry that we can all do to fix this problemthe first thing that I'll say is Many people think that nobody's trying to solve this ah
That that is far from true Not only is that that position wrong?
(13:58):
it's actually causing the problem to continue, is to not recognize that the answer issitting right in front of us.
And so the question is, is where do we find the answer?
And the answer lies within the industry itself.
an example I always give is, think about a professional athlete.
Professional athletes have mastered the art of safety.
(14:20):
If they hadn't mastered the art of safety, they would never be able to do anythingsignificant.
let alone something great.
So this is what's lost on the population.
And I think it's lost on the industry at this point too.
People are failing to recognize that your athletes, even amateur athletes and professionalathletes are your solution to this problem.
(14:42):
They know how to ride.
They learned how to ride and they learned how to ride at the racetrack.
What the industry has done is tried to createenvironments certified safety instructors and disperse them across the nation thinking
that people are going to be like, hey great I'm gonna go you know learn how to ride.
Well it's problematic for a couple of reasons.
(15:05):
While the industry with the ATV Safety Institute and the recreational off-highway vehicleAssociation and many other organizations that have you know instructors, we have law
enforcement agents also that are certified, um those organizationsIt's not that they're not trying to do something.
They have limited budgets and limited staff.
(15:25):
And the size and scale of the number of people that are riding today is unmanageable for asmall group of people to be able to disseminate the proper message and the proper
resources.
I think more significantly also is we have certified safety instructors that are agingout.
(15:46):
You know many of them are in their late 70s or their early 80s.
They're doing it solely on volunteer because there is no money in it.
There are very few classes across the country in spite of what people will lead you tobelieve that are actually there and there's certainly far fewer classes that are available
for children under the age of 12.
So I think it's important to recognize that of the data that I just gave you of the 711children that have been fatally injured in the last six years in the United States those
(16:13):
children49 % of them are 12 and younger.
So one of the very first things we have to look at as an industry is to recognize thatthis notion that everybody has in their head, children don't ride, my child doesn't ride.
That is an absolute, that is not what the data supports.
(16:35):
We've trained over 26,700 children in the last two and a half years.
And I am here to tell you that over 90 % of every child that we have ever, ever interactedwith reports to us that either they are operating these vehicles or they're riding as
passengers.
So that is, first of all, that is, this is the source of the problem.
(17:00):
So now we have all these young children, four years old, five, six, seven, eight, nine,10, that are operating vehicles or.
excuse me, or riding as passengers.
These, now, what are you going to, where are they going to get training?
Well, and they're not even mature enough to know that they need training or what trainingis or how to access it.
(17:24):
That's the parent's responsibility in that situation.
parents don't know either and even if parents do know that they don't have any idea whereto go and this is my point.
So we have this mass proliferation of equipment.
49, let's go back to this, 49 % of these children are 12 and younger.
Well, you know, little known fact here, the vast majority of certified safety instructorsin the United States are not insured to train children under the age of 12.
(17:50):
It's my understanding that ATV Safety Institute, although I'm not a spokesperson for them,they're
The ATV certified safety instructors can train children under the age of 12.
do have insurance that covers them, but there are many more people that are instructorsthat simply cannot train kids under the age of 12.
(18:10):
They're not covered to do it.
what we have created here by, we've got accessibility is everywhere.
People's children are riding.
There are no certified safety classes for these kids, virtually none.
There's a few here and there.
And literally what's happening is we're relying on these children to figure it out ontheir own.
(18:32):
Well, there's no ability to your earlier point.
There's no ability for people to make a proper calculated risk assessment.
How is an adult who was not born into racing, was not learning at the track how to masterthe art of safety, where are they going to acquire that information?
They are only making a decision based on their calculating riskout of complete ignorance.
(18:55):
They have no idea that it takes skill and training and that there is a trajectory, alearning trajectory.
so people are just very cavalier.
And in fact, we have many parents who they're bragging that their young children areoperating adult-sized vehicles.
Well, this is the factor that is most disturbing.
97 % of all of the children, 4,000 children in the United States, 97 % of them were onadult-sized machines.
(19:23):
Well,You know, just think about that for a second.
Like it's like, okay, well, what does that mean?
Well, that means, you you might be like, well, great, then I need to go get a youth sizemachine.
Well, back up for a second, because what you have to think about is, why is an adult sizemachine causing the injury or the fatality?
Well, it's because it's the weight of the machine.
(19:44):
Okay, if you're not thinking about the fact that these machines weigh anywhere from 500 toin some cases now over 3000 pounds.
and you're putting a little baby or child on a machine like that and they're not properlybuckled in and they have no helmet or whatever, if something goes wrong, it's the weight
of the machine that is doing the damage.
(20:06):
And so I hear people say, well, know, here's a machine, like if you're 12 and under, don'tride that one if you're six, okay, fine.
But could we not talk about weight?
And then once you think about weight, it's like, okay, well, what do I need to do to makesure my child doesn't end up?
outside of this vehicle when it crashes, like in the cases of side-by-sides, becausethey're putting kids in these side-by-sides without seatbelts, without helmets.
(20:29):
I mean, we had an accident in Arkansas, I don't know if you saw that, but you know, themom and dad packed seven of their children, seven of them in the back of a side-by-side.
And, you know, there was a bad accident and both parents were fatally injured and three ofthose children ended up in the uh intensive care and the rest of them were
sent to the hospital additionally.
I mean, that's one case, but it's not uncommon.
(20:51):
I see, actually see it at the racetrack a lot.
If you, you know, we see people in at the racetrack pile their whole families into thesemachines and they're like, it's no big deal.
That's fine.
It, it, probably isn't a big deal until the child goes and tries to operate the vehiclewhen you're not there.
Cause you've been instilling in the child that it's okay for them not to have a seatbelt,not to have a helmet.
(21:14):
which is one of the major contributing factors to these events.
So people just aren't thinking.
When you tell them that, they're like, wow, I never even thought of that.
And that's the big problem we have.
How are you going to get people's attention enough to be able to share with them the keydetails that they need to start paying attention to?
And it's simple to rectify it.
Pretty simple.
What do we do?
Well, I'll tell you exactly what I think the answer is.
(21:39):
And I think it's staring us all right in the face.
ah Who's insured?
to train kids.
Who is?
The racetrack.
Okay, the racetracks have children that are four, five, and six.
And not only that, the racetracks teach helmets, goggles, gear, throttle control,repetition.
(22:02):
And we have all these racetracks and all these athletes that are not being utilized tosolve this problem.
But that, to me, that's where the answer will come from.
is the industry itself.
People in the industry have such a heart to want to solve this problem, but they haven'tbeen able to figure out what the solution is.
(22:22):
Even people locally, they've got limited resources, they do the best they can, but theconsumers are like, yeah, probably don't need that.
So, know.
think it is a very different mindset between families that race and families that justhave these products recreationally.
And like you said, the racers are taking somewhat calculated risk.
(22:45):
They learned how to ride to be safer so they can continue to do it versus some of therecreational families.
It's just something they do on the weekend.
Maybe they use it for work and they might.
This is my assumption.
They might assume that racing is actually more dangerous, that high speed.
exactly what's.
Right.
You know, it's I'm just riding around the farm or my house or in the woods and I'm onlygoing 10 miles an hour.
(23:11):
But the awareness and the training and like the skill is just not the same.
exactly right.
this is, I will tell you, you know, I've had many conversations recently, actually, peopletrying to ban uh ATVs and ban UTVs you know, all these, there's people that are like, hey,
never let a child get on an ATV.
Like, you know, I get it.
(23:31):
Like, I get that.
And there's two things that happen.
Number one, people are trying to ban them outright, or ban children using them.
And,their mentality is, well, if I just stop the child from riding it, ban children, or they
should outright ban them altogether.
And what they don't realize is that's absolutely the exact wrong thing to do, okay?
(23:53):
So the fact is that these machines are everywhere, they're regular part of our lives.
I do want to point out that the vast majority of people who are operating these machinesaren't getting injured, and they're not being fatally injured.
I mean, we've had over 20,000 fatalities in the United States.
The vast majority of those are males, 50 and over.
They represent almost a third of those incidents.
(24:18):
but you know, like in the state of Wisconsin, for example, we have 538,000 registeredriders in the state of Wisconsin.
We had 41 fatalities in Wisconsin last year.
21 of those were alcohol related.
So, I mean, and the number of injuries that it's a bad number because it's one of thehighest in the country right now for fatalities, but we also have the highest
(24:40):
registrations exponentially by far mean, 538,000 registered riders in the state ofWisconsin.
Now, you don't wanna lose any of them.
So, the question becomes, um you're hitting on something so important here.
People want to blame the industry.
They want to say, well, it's, you know, stop them from riding because the industry, youknow, just banned the machines.
(25:03):
This is a bad idea.
First of all, you know, you're too late because everybody's got the machines.
But, you know, and I was there too.
Like I wanted when Logan first, after his accident, the very first thing you want to do isyou want to blame somebody.
It's just where your heart is.
You want, and because that's easy.
If I can find somebody that I can point a finger at and say, it's your fault, then I don'thave to do anything.
(25:28):
Okay.
I don't have to do anything.
It's your fault.
And so this is what everybody wants to do.
They just want it like, I'm going to solve the problem.
Well, because everybody has such limited time and resources, first thing that they'regoing to do is they're going to point a finger and try to blame somebody.
Well, I'm telling you, I went looking to find somebody to blame.
And what I actually discovered is that, you know, I'm not saying that there are zero badactors in the world.
(25:53):
But they're so few and far between that where you actually find somebody who just doesn'tcare.
That's that is so few and far between.
They do exist, but they're very few and far between the vast majority of people, whetherit's salespeople, dealers, people that are working out in the industry.
Number one, they have no idea what these numbers are.
(26:13):
They've never even heard of this stuff before.
They know people are getting injured, but they didn't know the scale of it.
Number two, their situation isWhat do I do about it?
And here's what we're hearing from dealers, particularly.
They're gatekeepers, right?
Like they're in a situation where somebody comes in, they buy the machine and they try tohave this conversation.
And it's the consumers that are shutting them up.
(26:35):
The consumers don't want to hear it.
I've heard that multiple times.
The dealers will say like, hey, we've tried to do this.
We've had these conversations.
And then the customer's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, don't, you know, whatever, ah, just, Iwant this.
you know, and of course there's,all kinds of protections in place for not selling machines to young children and the
Consumer Product Safety Commission, secret shops, dealers, oh to death apparently, becausedealers are really exhausted over that issue.
(27:03):
But what has happened is, going back to your point, we've got powersports enthusiasts andthen you have recreational riders.
Okay, the industry'sexcellent at communicating safety to people who recognize that they are enthusiasts.
They're excellent at that.
There's all kinds of places and resources and information and everybody was willing toshare.
(27:24):
It's a wonderful...
I've dedicated my life to motorsports and powersports and listen, I don't even ride.
And the reason I do that is because I find the best people I've ever met in my entire lifeare people who are in the motorsports and powersports industry.
And so everybody's wonderful.
They're family oriented.
They love each other.
They're charitably minded.
They're just, you know, they're, people that do hard things and particularly on the racingside of it.
(27:46):
And they're also the people that, if they say they're going to do something, they do it.
they're brilliant.
Like it's exactly the fabric of our nation is, is, you know, built on people like this.
I can only give you numbers from like five years ago, because I don't know what thenumbers are right now, but it used to be that 35 % of all.
PowerSport vehicle owners considered themselves enthusiasts.
All right, so that's 65 % of people who bought it as a tool.
(28:11):
This is my brother.
He used it for plowing snow or hauling firewood or whatever.
The 65 % that don't recognize themselves as enthusiast, they're not plugging into theinformation that's available because they don't see themselves as enthusiasts.
And the example I always give people is, hey, do you own a shovel?
I mean, do you own a shovel, Heather?
(28:32):
Okay, so let me ask you, how many shovel publications are you subscribed to?
How many shovel events do you go to?
Okay, or let's use the ladder as an example.
Do you have a ladder?
Okay, so ladders are the deadliest thing in the, I don't know if you know this or not, butthe ladders are the, literally, if you go to the Consumer Product Safety Commission's
website, the ladders are literally, if not the most, but one of absolutely the deadliestthings that you can have.
(28:54):
So do you have a do you subscribe to Ladder magazines?
The answer to that is absolutely not because you never think that this is going to occupyenough of your time and attention that you even care.
And so, you know, so the industry as a whole has no ability to reach that 65 % ofconsumers who don't see themselves as as riders.
(29:19):
They just it's a vehicle they own.
And so while we have all these mechanisms in place, there's no way to find this nebulousblob of people that are riding that don't recognize themselves as enthusiasts.
so what do we do about that?
I just listened to a guy the other day.
said, he goes, oh, he's all proud of himself because he's like, you know, Hey, I don't govery fast.
(29:40):
I only ride this thing around my farm.
And so I never, I don't wear a helmet and I don't wear a seatbelt, but hey, if I weregoing to get out on the trail, that's when I'd wear it.
Well, got news for you, buddy.
That's not where the accidents are happening.
They're happening on your farms.
Okay.
They're not happening on the trails.
They're happening on your farms at speeds of less than 20 miles an hour.
And so it's pretty simple.
(30:01):
If you look at the cascade of fatal errors, what are the, the, you know, contributingfactors?
97 % of the child fatalities are on adult-sized machines.
95 % of all children that were fatally injured in the United States had no training.
They have no training, no safety certification.
95 % of them.
(30:22):
The third leading contributing factor is they have no helmet.
90 % of them don't have a helmet.
mean, know, like do the math on that.
Okay, so 4,000 children who've been fatally injured multiply that times 90%.
That means only 400.
Only 400 of those 4,000 children had helmets on.
Do you think that you could like literally not be in a situation where your family is atrisk just by simply putting a helmet on?
(30:53):
There's your answer, but you can't get people to do that because they don't think thatthey're in any danger.
They don't think that they're doing anything dangerous.
and they have no idea whether they're doing anything dangerous because they have no ideawhat's dangerous.
This is the thing.
This is the paradox.
the solution, the solution, I'm glad you brought that up, like, you know, this, and it isa differentiation between powersports enthusiasts and recreational riders, recreational
(31:22):
owners.
And by the way, you know, keep in mind that a lot of this equipment is being sold onFacebook marketplace or, you know, at a, you know, swap or whatever.
There isn't a dealer there to direct them to safety courses and those kinds of things.
Well, they're being sold at Lowe's and Tractor Supply and like more non-traditionaldealer, you know, that aren't powersports employees or enthusiasts as well.
(31:48):
Yeah, and actually, so there's your answer.
I mean, the answer really is, is to help people.
And this is where we are.
mean, we're not trying to scare people.
We're just trying to equip them because you don't have to be scared.
Why are we not using our athletes to engage communities?
They're traveling all over the country.
They're at all these events.
They're literally passing through the very same towns where these accidents are happeningand nobody's using these guys.
(32:13):
Not only that, you have guys that have retired that would love to stay involved in thesport and there's no system for them.
What I'm a strong advocate for at this point is a couple of things.
Early on in the process of this, we did a lot in which I've spent a lot of this time inthis podcast now talking to you about what the problem is.
(32:35):
And we do that, and then you walk, you roll out of the town like, well, I don't know, I'mjust telling you what the problem is.
Don't, don't, don't do these things.
but that's not good enough.
Okay.
And even when we go in and do large scale events, when we can train, we bring, inpartnership with, game and fish wardens, law enforcement, whether it's sheriff, county
sheriff, state patrol.
we, you know, have trauma specialists, certified safety instructors, professionalathletes.
(32:57):
We have a heavy, heavy lift.
go into communities.
ever there's nobody that you talk to and you say hey do you want to come and participatein this event we're going to train kids today they don't go no they're like yes absolutely
what where do want me okay so because people care about kids and people care about adultsas well but so this is what we do we go in and we do basic clinical instruction 10 minutes
(33:21):
of basic clinical instruction with certified safety instructors law enforcement officersor professional athletes doing the instruction on an every child in a district that we go
into will do ATVs, 10 minutes of that.
Then they rotate and they get 10 minutes of basic clinical instruction on UTVs, 10 minutesof dirt bike training, 10 minutes of snowmobile training in the North, it's e-bikes in the
(33:46):
South now.
And then 10 minutes of training on water, whether that's personal watercraft, pontoonboats, speed boats, whatever the community brings, they train on that.
And then they rotate and we fit every single one of those children with a helmet.
So we put a helmet on their head and go, Hey, honey, does that fit?
you know, listen, here's how you figure out whether this fits you or not.
And here's why it's important.
(34:07):
And, buckle the chin strap.
And we teach them how to buckle the chin strap.
And that is a major undertaking because we, have to have one instruction, one instructorfor every five kids.
For just for helmets.
So anyway, the point is, is that, you know, we've got this massive lift and,even after we do all of that, okay?
And we, you know, let pick on like Ashland, Wisconsin, for example, we just did 1200 kidsthere in the spring of last year.
(34:34):
And the thing is, is once we do it, um yeah, we roll out of town and we're like, well, Ihope you guys were listening.
Good luck.
Bye.
Cause there's nothing, now they're like, they know what they're supposed to do and theywant to go ride.
They want to have a place to go ride.
They want to have, you know, all these wonderful people in the powersports industry thatmentor other people.
(34:54):
That doesn't even exist there.
So where are they supposed to go?
Are they supposed to watch a video or I mean like this is the problem.
communities have not equipped people to have places that are safe where they can learn toride because people are trying to ban these things which is the counterintuitive problem.
(35:15):
It's, you know, don't kids under this age should never ride?
Well, okay, let's say you take that position.
If your attitude is that a child should never ride, well, first of all, they are riding.
You know, got news flash, they are riding or they're riding as passengers or they'reoperating the vehicles.
But what happens when they turn 16?
You think like all of a sudden they're magically gonna know how to ride?
(35:37):
No, now they think that they know how to ride and they think they need to be brave andthey got an ego attached to it.
And now they're getting on adult size machines, which weigh a ton.
And they're doing crazy things.
So all you're going to be doing is you're moving the injury and fatality data for theyoung kids into the 16 and older category because you haven't provided any training.
so, you know, culturally, that's the shift.
(35:59):
It's like, you know, I feel like we have a world of wonderful athletes that have masteredthe art of safety.
You Hubert Rowland is our co-founder.
You know, he's, you know, you know, he is deeply involved.
in the creation, development of stunts and has been doing it for over 30 years inpartnership with Travis Pastrana and the crew at Nitro Circus.
(36:22):
as you know, BRP is our major uh partner.
the thing is that they understand and they're like, hey, we've got these resources, howcan we help you do this?
Now, all of these people that are so full of knowledge,The communities don't recognize that the answer is the very thing that they're accusing as
being the problem.
(36:46):
They're not the problem.
They're the answer.
It's quite literally that, that, you know, I mean, I hope everybody has the same level ofepiphany and aha moment that I have had after going through and realizing like, Hey,
we're, we can do only a certain amount and then we're to roll out of town.
And now what are you going to do?
You still have to find people that are experts that understand safety.
(37:09):
and that enjoy it.
And if you are trying to discourage that, you've now eliminated the very solution.
And it has to be an ongoing conversation too.
To your point.
one touch point is great, but it's only one touch point and it has to have follow up andcontinual kind of social and cultural buy-in to it over and over again.
(37:34):
I mean, My parents were always very safety minded about us riding dirt bikes as kids andthen riding street bikes as I got older.
But we were a powersports family.
So again, for that huge demographic, that 65 % that isn't, that's a real challenge toreach them.
And I think going into the schools, like you said, is a huge win because you're reaching amuch larger demographic than just going to powersports events or focusing on powersports
(38:00):
families.
So yeah, that's really cool that you've been able to do that.
well, thank you.
there's nothing great about me.
We had a family tragedy.
And my heart is I've always been this way.
Like I care about people.
If I know something awful has happened, I am going to do whatever it takes to not, youknow, see somebody go through that.
It's just a natural thing.
(38:20):
because I'd been in the industry for 25 years at the time of Logan's uh fatality, Irecognized that I was uniquely positioned to do something about it because of the
relationships I have.
while there were a lot of things I didn't understand, there's a lot of things I've come toknow.
I definitely recognize that, if we've all built this incredible network of amazing eventsand, you know, this wonderful lifestyle of powersports where people
(38:46):
can get out and explore this great country that we live in with all these incredibleplaces and bring places to people that they were never able to go to and have camaraderie
and friendship and stories and time together and to be on that wonderful adventure.
mean, thank God for the OEMs who have manufactured these incredible vehicles that allow usto do that.
(39:08):
But that vast network of people that we've been able to invite into itThey are truly the ones with the answer.
mean, you have the greatest, like 6D helmets, for example, the knowledge and technologythat they have about helmets and about brain injury and traumatic brain injury and how to
prevent it.
They're the experts.
(39:29):
Or fly racing or Thor or any of the helmet manufacturers, they have a knowledge that it'snot like, hey, I think I'm just going to create a helmet.
I mean, think of the amount of time and effort and technology and product development andtesting and all of the accidents they've experienced throughout the course of their
(39:51):
career.
I tell people all the time, hey, never in the history of the world have we ever had bettergear.
Never.
and that it's taken so lightly like it doesn't have any value.
You know, I had an interesting conversation with one of the helmet manufacturers and hesaid that as this was a
(40:11):
about two years ago, he said, as UTV sales climb, helmet sales are going down.
Well, so, you know, we, talking about adults, you know, we work with law enforcement and,you know, we're on the scenes of these accidents and they flat out tell us, listen, well,
okay, let's say you don't have a helmet on in a side by side and you think like, well, Idon't need one.
(40:32):
I don't need one.
Okay.
Well, why don't you need one again?
Oh, because I'm in a side by side.
Okay.
So you can't smack your head on the, on the roll bar.
Like don't think that's possible?
Or you don't think like your head can go, if you wrote like your head's gonna crack outthe window?
People just don't, they have this, they're lulled into this idea that this is easy to do.
(40:53):
I'm not saying that these things are complicated, but there is a learning curve.
there are guys that have been riding or women that have been riding for 30 years that havea lot to learn.
And where are you gonna go to get that information?
It's the industry.
The industry is this beautiful place.
the question is, is how do we, how do we help leverage that for us at the RideSafeFoundation?
(41:17):
We, not only do we do events, I've spent a lot of time in the last couple of years workingwith people that have solutions.
One of the biggest things I feel that we need in this country is I feel like we needprogramming that's geared towards kids because nothing exists.
We've had a production company that we spent quite a bit of time with out of New Yorkthat's created an animated pilot.
You can find that on our YouTube channel.
(41:38):
It's called Jack's Wild Ride.
They invested in time and development to create an animated series that's geared forchildren 4 to 12.
We have an opportunity to create 12 unique episodes, but we have no partners to do that.
And the RideSafe Foundation, it's not our business to go and get something like thatfunded because that does not benefit the RideSafe Foundation.
(41:59):
you know, for us to take our resources at the RideSafe Foundation and go and try to createthe actual solution, we're not in a position to do that.
But until somebody wants to go raise $120,000, which is what it's going to take to developa series, but that's all it takes.
so, you know, it seems like a lot of money, but is it because if an injury is $247,000,$74,000,
(42:23):
oh Why can't we raise $120,000 to produce a series that suddenly children all across thenation and the world could watch this in their, you know, at home or when they're with
their grandparents, which by the way, the vast majority of children that are injured arewith their grandparents.
I hate to tell you that, but, and it's not because their grandparents don't love theirkids.
They just literally don't understand.
(42:45):
And how many mothers I've talked to or grandmothers I've talked to whowhose hearts are absolutely shattered and broken and they cannot stop crying because their
babies have been fatally injured.
And they keep saying the same thing, why didn't anybody tell me?
Why didn't I know that?
And so, I feel like it's just simple things.
(43:10):
anyway, the animated series I think is one thing that I think it's an easy solution.
I think, you know, but again, the RideSafe Foundation can't fund that.
And we also, you know, can't allocate our resources to go out and try to find people tofund it.
But nobody has picked that mantle up.
for individuals, schools, companies that want to support the RideSafe Foundation mission.
(43:34):
What are some ways that they can partner?
How can they get in touch with you, whether it's via your website or social media?
Well, we do have a Facebook page.
This is we predominantly, oh you know, I'm pretty vocal on there.
Like if I see trends, I communicate there, but you can find us on Facebook.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm probably most vocal on LinkedIn on the issue of safety and just the trends that wesee.
(43:58):
So it's a really great resource to follow me on LinkedIn because you'll get the reports,you'll get the analysis of the state, and you can email and message me there.
My email is Kristin at ridesafefoundation.org so you can contact me that way.
yeah, mean, we've got, there's an opportunity for people to subscribe to our newsletter onour website also.
(44:22):
you know, but I mean, I welcome it.
think, you know, there's, people can give to the RideSafe Foundation.
There's a donation button there.
We have nothing in place to lead a mass campaign to raise money for the RideSafeFoundation, but if we have those resources, we could do a lot more.
We could hire a lot more project managers.
We could do a lot more in a lot of states.
But again, we aren't leading some big initiative to go and raise funds.
(44:46):
We are in the business of going and training kids with the core partnerships that we havewho fund what we do.
you know, if companies or individuals are interested insupporting what we do.
I mean, I'd just love to chat with them One of the things that I, that I feel that weshould be doing at the RideSafe Foundation is simply to equip communities to have
(45:11):
conversation.
That's all we're trying to do.
Like I'm trying to give people the tools and the resources so that they can have theconversation themselves so that I don't have to, you know, I mean, I can't, like, it can
only be so many places.
And so,It's not possible for me to speak with people in every community, but if we have resources
that can be disseminated, we need people to distribute that.
(45:33):
To me, utility companies, gas companies, electric companies, grocery stores, conveniencestores, uh your point, farm and fleet or tractor supply or any of these farm implement
stores, they have the customers that are using this equipment.
And they are in a position to communicate with those people about what the five we have onour website, the five red flag warnings, which are the five leading causes of child injury
(46:00):
and fatality, the five leading contributing factors And, know, like, grab that, share thatwith people, tell people what it is.
but yeah, we we'd love to speak with people and come up with a plan.
Yeah, and for anybody that's just looking for resources as a parent, as grandparent, afamily member, obviously check out the website as well and I'll be sure to link that in
(46:23):
the show notes.
But Kristen, I really appreciate you joining me.
Definitely a hard topic to talk about at times, especially when you've been so personallyimpacted.
So thank you for everything that you've done for the foundation and for the industry andfamilies in general.
Awesome, well I really appreciate the opportunity to be here and share it with people,Heather.
(46:43):
I'm available, I tell people, know, don't be afraid to call me or text me or email me.
I'm never too busy, I wanna hear and we wanna help.
Well, thank you and thanks to everybody for tuning into Momentum.
This has been a production of High Gear Success.
If you want to connect or recommend a guest, head to MomentumMotorsportsPodcast.com.
(47:03):
Until next time, keep the momentum rolling.
Welcome to Momentum, a motorsports podcast powered by High Gear Success.
I'm your host, Heather Wilson Schiltz.
Here we share the stories and strategies that keep the world of motorsports movingforward.
Today's guest is Kristen Almer, executive director of RideSafe Foundation.
So Kristen, thank you for joining me.
Thanks for having me.
(00:26):
we've actually had the pleasure, at least once, at a safety conference to meet in person,but uh we actually go back quite a few years now.
we've both been involved in motorsports for so long, so invariably we're going to runacross each other.
But yeah, uh I'm excited to hear about your new adventure also with this podcast, andwe're glad to be here.
(00:47):
Yes, thank you.
So kind of setting a little bit of back history for the RideSafe Foundation.
In 2013, your 11-year-old nephew Logan was tragically killed in an ATV accident.
So can you tell us a little bit about Logan and how that ignited something in you tobecome such a big advocate of ATV safety?
(01:08):
Yeah, um Memorial weekend, May the 24th, we were in northern Wisconsin getting ready for,you know, what you think is going to be a great, wonderful weekend.
turned out to be the worst day of our lives.
Yeah, Logan was, he was 11 years old and had gotten off the school bus, um you know, lastday of school for them.
(01:32):
AndHis dad's adult sized ATV was parked in the driveway.
The ATV had been on the property most of Logan's life.
His father was meticulous, particularly with securing the key and making sure that vehiclewasn't accessible to the children.
But on that particular day, he had the intention of teaching his older son how to ride.
(01:53):
So he had put it in the driveway with that intention.
And Loganwas able to locate the key while dad was at work and mom was on a walk and you know the
the babysitter was in the house and Logan got out and he was able to locate the key andstart that machine and Yeah, his his life was over within a matter of minutes.
(02:16):
It didn't take long You know, we don't know exactly what happened, but you can pretty muchascertain the details we know he started it and
hit the throttle and when he did Logan he it scared him you know it's a big powerfulmachine when he pinned the throttle and when he did that you know they have a fear
(02:39):
response when they're young like that they don't have experience and his fear response umhe you know tightened his grip on that throttle and he obviously was unable to locate the
brake or figure out how to let go of the throttleAnd he was accelerating down a very short driveway and he knew not to go into the county
road which you know intersected with the driveway he'd been told that many many times inhis lifetime and He had no option but to turn and he did that at a high rate of speed.
(03:11):
He had no gear he was Yeah, I mean he the tires slid clipped the edge of the asphaltcaused that ATV to flip up into the air and you know it came down and
Logan suffered a massive head injury.
Yeah, I feel like that's a very common fear response for a lot of different powersportsand not just in kids.
(03:33):
teach adults motorcycle safety classes and without the repetition and the knowledge andthe understanding so many times when people get afraid, they grab that throttle even more
instead of grabbing the clutch, you know, letting go of the throttle.
So I could definitely see how that would be a natural reaction for somebody that doesn'thave the education.
(03:55):
What was interesting is, you know, it was a horrifying situation.
I was one of the first family members to arrive on the scene.
And we just, I mean, it's so stunning that something like that could happen.
Try not to get emotional here.
It's just, it's so devastating.
(04:19):
It really is.
It's an awful situation.
And for me, I was thinking,I just couldn't imagine how it even happened.
didn't understand how could this have happened.
And that really, spiraled me into trying to figure out how to prevent it from happeningagain.
(04:41):
I think it's important to point out that when things like this occur, you don't just losethe child.
You lose everybody that you love.
You know, my brother became totally different.
His mother became different.
My nieces and nephews became different people.
We all shattered on that day.
(05:02):
And so a tragedy like this that is so preventable, but it's so devastating, we wanted toknow what, how do we stop it from happening again?
And that really was um what led me to try to figure out, what actually happened?
And my biggest question is the question that I have for me and it's the question I hopeall of us never have to ask and that is, what didn't I say?
(05:30):
What didn't I do?
And in order to figure out what that looked like, I had to know, what actually went wrong?
Well, I don't ride.
I've been involved in the sport for, at that time, 25 years as a consultant on thebusiness side of things, but I don't participate in powersports myself.
And so that led me on a long journey of uncovering how do these things happen.
(05:53):
It actually took me four and a half years before I finally got the answers to whatactually transpired.
And once I knew what that was and that I knew that there was a predictability to thesethings, that led me on a long, I mean, it's been 13 years of hard research, determining
exactly what occurs.
And once we have that, then we...
(06:15):
can teach people how to prevent that common cascade of fatal errors because in the vastmajority of these cases, there is a repetitive pattern of fatal errors that they're making
and it's not just one, they're making a series of fatal errors and it is the same patternover and over and over and over and over again.
(06:39):
And so that's the message of the RideSafe Foundation.
Our heart really is to reach children.
You know, many people try to encourage us to focus on talking to adults because theirnatural reaction is, you need to talk to adults.
And, you know, that's true, but there's plenty of information available for adults tointeract with and adults choose to ignore that.
(07:00):
And so the RideSafe Foundation does not spend time or money or resources trying tocommunicate with adults because that is already happening.
We focus on kids and so my heart was just, the thing that I still think of every singleday when we go to events is if Logan was right in front of me, what would we need to do to
(07:24):
help Logan to fully understand what would have protected him from that situation?
And so that's what we focus on.
we have a heavy collaboration with many experts in the field.
and we create very large scale events.
go directly to children at schools and teach them about ATVs, UTVs, dirt bikes,snowmobiles, watercraft, e-bikes, and we fit every child with a helmet so they know what
(07:51):
it feels like to have a helmet on their head that fits.
so we really have been uh accelerating our impact and our reach, but we have many, manyalliances.
This is not, we have our personal story.
but this is a story that's impacted over 4,000 families.
We've lost over 4,000 children in the United States to ATV and UTV related incidents.
(08:15):
And that is children 15 and younger.
So we're not even talking about children 16 to 19 because we can't track that data withany accuracy and have an accurate count.
But we know that we've lost 4,000.
children over that now in the United States since they started keeping records in theearly 80s.
(09:10):
For people that may not follow the safety data closely, what are some current statisticswhen it comes to youth, ATV or UTV injuries and fatalities?
on the fatality side of it, I can tell you that from January the 1st of 2020 throughDecember 31st, 2025, we have lost 711 children that are 15 and younger.
(09:36):
The American Academy of Pediatrics,They report anywhere from 40,000 to 55,000 children that are visiting the emergency room
every year because of incidents just on ATVs and UTVs.
So those are astronomical numbers.
We also know that if there is an injury that has been oh assessed and identified, childcomes into the ER and yes, they're injured.
(10:04):
The average cost of medical care for an injury is$274,000.
But 27 % of the children that are being admitted to the emergency room are beinghospitalized.
And the cost of medical care in those regards are in excess of $1.2 million.
So the cost to care for these is astronomical.
(10:28):
And the injury data that I just gave you, that is the official data that comes from theAmerican Academy of Pediatrics.
ButThose that data comes from a government organization that is a sister organization to the
Consumer Product Safety Commission and they they pull their data from hospitals that theyhave relationships with and then they extrapolate that data and they average it out over
the across the entire United States.
(10:54):
And so the data that I just gave you that 40,000 to 55,000 that is coming from 98hospitals.
There are over 6,000 hospitals in the United States and so and the data also comes fromhospitals with a minimum of six beds and 24 hours of care, which quite obviously the vast
(11:17):
majority of those hospitals are going to be in metropolitan areas.
Well, that's not where these accidents are happening.
So the reason I tell you that is there is a high likelihood and some law enforcementagencies and trauma specialists we talked to, they believe those numbers are two to three
times too low.
They think there arefar more people going to the ER children because of these incidents.
(11:38):
so what's so shocking is while those numbers are, I mean, they're really shocking numbers.
The question is, well, what are we going to do about it?
You know, it's one thing to talk about what the problems are and we do that because I'vespent the time and I've done the research and nobody has time to do the kind of research
that we've done at the RideSafe Foundation.
(11:59):
So we pull that data for you.
So that what we are hoping is that people go, wow, I had no idea.
And then once they get that position, the next question is, well, what's the answer?
What do we do?
Because just telling people that there's a problem isn't the solution.
The solution is then to go to the experts and figure out, well, how do we prevent thesethings?
(12:22):
And so we've got many, many allies in that respect as well.
But hopefully that helps you with some of the data.
Yeah, mean, data is so time consuming and so complicated to even find and understand andanalyze.
So that alone is a huge feat just for you to be able to do that and share thatinformation.
And of course, behind each of those numbers is, you know, an actual child, an actualfamily impacted.
(12:48):
And so sometimes we talk numbers and it, just seems like a number, but when you reallythink about it, I mean, that could be somebody that you know,
so yeah that definitely puts it in perspective.
are there certain age groups that are most at risk within the youth population?
Well, we know that children represent one out of every five ATV or UTV related fatality.
(13:13):
So to me, those are astronomical numbers.
mean, you know, don't, it's like children don't represent one out of every five snowmobilefatality or one out of every five motorcycle fatality or one out of every five boating
accident.
I mean, it's a disproportionate number.
Now we feel like we have, we've got a handle on it.
I mean,It's pretty obvious why that's happening and and and and there's there's something that I
(13:33):
think Nationally and particularly as an industry that we can all do to fix this problemthe first thing that I'll say is Many people think that nobody's trying to solve this ah
That that is far from true Not only is that that position wrong?
(13:58):
it's actually causing the problem to continue, is to not recognize that the answer issitting right in front of us.
And so the question is, is where do we find the answer?
And the answer lies within the industry itself.
an example I always give is, think about a professional athlete.
Professional athletes have mastered the art of safety.
(14:20):
If they hadn't mastered the art of safety, they would never be able to do anythingsignificant.
let alone something great.
So this is what's lost on the population.
And I think it's lost on the industry at this point too.
People are failing to recognize that your athletes, even amateur athletes and professionalathletes are your solution to this problem.
(14:42):
They know how to ride.
They learned how to ride and they learned how to ride at the racetrack.
What the industry has done is tried to createenvironments certified safety instructors and disperse them across the nation thinking
that people are going to be like, hey great I'm gonna go you know learn how to ride.
Well it's problematic for a couple of reasons.
(15:05):
While the industry with the ATV Safety Institute and the recreational off-highway vehicleAssociation and many other organizations that have you know instructors, we have law
enforcement agents also that are certified, um those organizationsIt's not that they're not trying to do something.
They have limited budgets and limited staff.
(15:25):
And the size and scale of the number of people that are riding today is unmanageable for asmall group of people to be able to disseminate the proper message and the proper
resources.
I think more significantly also is we have certified safety instructors that are agingout.
(15:46):
You know many of them are in their late 70s or their early 80s.
They're doing it solely on volunteer because there is no money in it.
There are very few classes across the country in spite of what people will lead you tobelieve that are actually there and there's certainly far fewer classes that are available
for children under the age of 12.
So I think it's important to recognize that of the data that I just gave you of the 711children that have been fatally injured in the last six years in the United States those
(16:13):
children49 % of them are 12 and younger.
So one of the very first things we have to look at as an industry is to recognize thatthis notion that everybody has in their head, children don't ride, my child doesn't ride.
That is an absolute, that is not what the data supports.
(16:35):
We've trained over 26,700 children in the last two and a half years.
And I am here to tell you that over 90 % of every child that we have ever, ever interactedwith reports to us that either they are operating these vehicles or they're riding as
passengers.
So that is, first of all, that is, this is the source of the problem.
(17:00):
So now we have all these young children, four years old, five, six, seven, eight, nine,10, that are operating vehicles or.
excuse me, or riding as passengers.
These, now, what are you going to, where are they going to get training?
Well, and they're not even mature enough to know that they need training or what trainingis or how to access it.
(17:24):
That's the parent's responsibility in that situation.
parents don't know either and even if parents do know that they don't have any idea whereto go and this is my point.
So we have this mass proliferation of equipment.
49, let's go back to this, 49 % of these children are 12 and younger.
Well, you know, little known fact here, the vast majority of certified safety instructorsin the United States are not insured to train children under the age of 12.
(17:50):
It's my understanding that ATV Safety Institute, although I'm not a spokesperson for them,they're
The ATV certified safety instructors can train children under the age of 12.
do have insurance that covers them, but there are many more people that are instructorsthat simply cannot train kids under the age of 12.
(18:10):
They're not covered to do it.
what we have created here by, we've got accessibility is everywhere.
People's children are riding.
There are no certified safety classes for these kids, virtually none.
There's a few here and there.
And literally what's happening is we're relying on these children to figure it out ontheir own.
(18:32):
Well, there's no ability to your earlier point.
There's no ability for people to make a proper calculated risk assessment.
How is an adult who was not born into racing, was not learning at the track how to masterthe art of safety, where are they going to acquire that information?
They are only making a decision based on their calculating riskout of complete ignorance.
(18:55):
They have no idea that it takes skill and training and that there is a trajectory, alearning trajectory.
so people are just very cavalier.
And in fact, we have many parents who they're bragging that their young children areoperating adult-sized vehicles.
Well, this is the factor that is most disturbing.
97 % of all of the children, 4,000 children in the United States, 97 % of them were onadult-sized machines.
(19:23):
Well,You know, just think about that for a second.
Like it's like, okay, well, what does that mean?
Well, that means, you you might be like, well, great, then I need to go get a youth sizemachine.
Well, back up for a second, because what you have to think about is, why is an adult sizemachine causing the injury or the fatality?
Well, it's because it's the weight of the machine.
(19:44):
Okay, if you're not thinking about the fact that these machines weigh anywhere from 500 toin some cases now over 3000 pounds.
and you're putting a little baby or child on a machine like that and they're not properlybuckled in and they have no helmet or whatever, if something goes wrong, it's the weight
of the machine that is doing the damage.
(20:06):
And so I hear people say, well, know, here's a machine, like if you're 12 and under, don'tride that one if you're six, okay, fine.
But could we not talk about weight?
And then once you think about weight, it's like, okay, well, what do I need to do to makesure my child doesn't end up?
outside of this vehicle when it crashes, like in the cases of side-by-sides, becausethey're putting kids in these side-by-sides without seatbelts, without helmets.
(20:29):
I mean, we had an accident in Arkansas, I don't know if you saw that, but you know, themom and dad packed seven of their children, seven of them in the back of a side-by-side.
And, you know, there was a bad accident and both parents were fatally injured and three ofthose children ended up in the uh intensive care and the rest of them were
sent to the hospital additionally.
I mean, that's one case, but it's not uncommon.
(20:51):
I see, actually see it at the racetrack a lot.
If you, you know, we see people in at the racetrack pile their whole families into thesemachines and they're like, it's no big deal.
That's fine.
It, it, probably isn't a big deal until the child goes and tries to operate the vehiclewhen you're not there.
Cause you've been instilling in the child that it's okay for them not to have a seatbelt,not to have a helmet.
(21:14):
which is one of the major contributing factors to these events.
So people just aren't thinking.
When you tell them that, they're like, wow, I never even thought of that.
And that's the big problem we have.
How are you going to get people's attention enough to be able to share with them the keydetails that they need to start paying attention to?
And it's simple to rectify it.
Pretty simple.
What do we do?
Well, I'll tell you exactly what I think the answer is.
(21:39):
And I think it's staring us all right in the face.
ah Who's insured?
to train kids.
Who is?
The racetrack.
Okay, the racetracks have children that are four, five, and six.
And not only that, the racetracks teach helmets, goggles, gear, throttle control,repetition.
(22:02):
And we have all these racetracks and all these athletes that are not being utilized tosolve this problem.
But that, to me, that's where the answer will come from.
is the industry itself.
People in the industry have such a heart to want to solve this problem, but they haven'tbeen able to figure out what the solution is.
(22:22):
Even people locally, they've got limited resources, they do the best they can, but theconsumers are like, yeah, probably don't need that.
So, know.
think it is a very different mindset between families that race and families that justhave these products recreationally.
And like you said, the racers are taking somewhat calculated risk.
(22:45):
They learned how to ride to be safer so they can continue to do it versus some of therecreational families.
It's just something they do on the weekend.
Maybe they use it for work and they might.
This is my assumption.
They might assume that racing is actually more dangerous, that high speed.
exactly what's.
Right.
You know, it's I'm just riding around the farm or my house or in the woods and I'm onlygoing 10 miles an hour.
(23:11):
But the awareness and the training and like the skill is just not the same.
exactly right.
this is, I will tell you, you know, I've had many conversations recently, actually, peopletrying to ban uh ATVs and ban UTVs you know, all these, there's people that are like, hey,
never let a child get on an ATV.
Like, you know, I get it.
(23:31):
Like, I get that.
And there's two things that happen.
Number one, people are trying to ban them outright, or ban children using them.
And,their mentality is, well, if I just stop the child from riding it, ban children, or they
should outright ban them altogether.
And what they don't realize is that's absolutely the exact wrong thing to do, okay?
(23:53):
So the fact is that these machines are everywhere, they're regular part of our lives.
I do want to point out that the vast majority of people who are operating these machinesaren't getting injured, and they're not being fatally injured.
I mean, we've had over 20,000 fatalities in the United States.
The vast majority of those are males, 50 and over.
They represent almost a third of those incidents.
(24:18):
but you know, like in the state of Wisconsin, for example, we have 538,000 registeredriders in the state of Wisconsin.
We had 41 fatalities in Wisconsin last year.
21 of those were alcohol related.
So, I mean, and the number of injuries that it's a bad number because it's one of thehighest in the country right now for fatalities, but we also have the highest
(24:40):
registrations exponentially by far mean, 538,000 registered riders in the state ofWisconsin.
Now, you don't wanna lose any of them.
So, the question becomes, um you're hitting on something so important here.
People want to blame the industry.
They want to say, well, it's, you know, stop them from riding because the industry, youknow, just banned the machines.
(25:03):
This is a bad idea.
First of all, you know, you're too late because everybody's got the machines.
But, you know, and I was there too.
Like I wanted when Logan first, after his accident, the very first thing you want to do isyou want to blame somebody.
It's just where your heart is.
You want, and because that's easy.
If I can find somebody that I can point a finger at and say, it's your fault, then I don'thave to do anything.
(25:28):
Okay.
I don't have to do anything.
It's your fault.
And so this is what everybody wants to do.
They just want it like, I'm going to solve the problem.
Well, because everybody has such limited time and resources, first thing that they'regoing to do is they're going to point a finger and try to blame somebody.
Well, I'm telling you, I went looking to find somebody to blame.
And what I actually discovered is that, you know, I'm not saying that there are zero badactors in the world.
(25:53):
But they're so few and far between that where you actually find somebody who just doesn'tcare.
That's that is so few and far between.
They do exist, but they're very few and far between the vast majority of people, whetherit's salespeople, dealers, people that are working out in the industry.
Number one, they have no idea what these numbers are.
(26:13):
They've never even heard of this stuff before.
They know people are getting injured, but they didn't know the scale of it.
Number two, their situation isWhat do I do about it?
And here's what we're hearing from dealers, particularly.
They're gatekeepers, right?
Like they're in a situation where somebody comes in, they buy the machine and they try tohave this conversation.
And it's the consumers that are shutting them up.
(26:35):
The consumers don't want to hear it.
I've heard that multiple times.
The dealers will say like, hey, we've tried to do this.
We've had these conversations.
And then the customer's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, don't, you know, whatever, ah, just, Iwant this.
you know, and of course there's,all kinds of protections in place for not selling machines to young children and the
Consumer Product Safety Commission, secret shops, dealers, oh to death apparently, becausedealers are really exhausted over that issue.
(27:03):
But what has happened is, going back to your point, we've got powersports enthusiasts andthen you have recreational riders.
Okay, the industry'sexcellent at communicating safety to people who recognize that they are enthusiasts.
They're excellent at that.
There's all kinds of places and resources and information and everybody was willing toshare.
(27:24):
It's a wonderful...
I've dedicated my life to motorsports and powersports and listen, I don't even ride.
And the reason I do that is because I find the best people I've ever met in my entire lifeare people who are in the motorsports and powersports industry.
And so everybody's wonderful.
They're family oriented.
They love each other.
They're charitably minded.
They're just, you know, they're, people that do hard things and particularly on the racingside of it.
(27:46):
And they're also the people that, if they say they're going to do something, they do it.
they're brilliant.
Like it's exactly the fabric of our nation is, is, you know, built on people like this.
I can only give you numbers from like five years ago, because I don't know what thenumbers are right now, but it used to be that 35 % of all.
PowerSport vehicle owners considered themselves enthusiasts.
All right, so that's 65 % of people who bought it as a tool.
(28:11):
This is my brother.
He used it for plowing snow or hauling firewood or whatever.
The 65 % that don't recognize themselves as enthusiast, they're not plugging into theinformation that's available because they don't see themselves as enthusiasts.
And the example I always give people is, hey, do you own a shovel?
I mean, do you own a shovel, Heather?
(28:32):
Okay, so let me ask you, how many shovel publications are you subscribed to?
How many shovel events do you go to?
Okay, or let's use the ladder as an example.
Do you have a ladder?
Okay, so ladders are the deadliest thing in the, I don't know if you know this or not, butthe ladders are the, literally, if you go to the Consumer Product Safety Commission's
website, the ladders are literally, if not the most, but one of absolutely the deadliestthings that you can have.
(28:54):
So do you have a do you subscribe to Ladder magazines?
The answer to that is absolutely not because you never think that this is going to occupyenough of your time and attention that you even care.
And so, you know, so the industry as a whole has no ability to reach that 65 % ofconsumers who don't see themselves as as riders.
(29:19):
They just it's a vehicle they own.
And so while we have all these mechanisms in place, there's no way to find this nebulousblob of people that are riding that don't recognize themselves as enthusiasts.
so what do we do about that?
I just listened to a guy the other day.
said, he goes, oh, he's all proud of himself because he's like, you know, Hey, I don't govery fast.
(29:40):
I only ride this thing around my farm.
And so I never, I don't wear a helmet and I don't wear a seatbelt, but hey, if I weregoing to get out on the trail, that's when I'd wear it.
Well, got news for you, buddy.
That's not where the accidents are happening.
They're happening on your farms.
Okay.
They're not happening on the trails.
They're happening on your farms at speeds of less than 20 miles an hour.
And so it's pretty simple.
(30:01):
If you look at the cascade of fatal errors, what are the, the, you know, contributingfactors?
97 % of the child fatalities are on adult-sized machines.
95 % of all children that were fatally injured in the United States had no training.
They have no training, no safety certification.
95 % of them.
(30:22):
The third leading contributing factor is they have no helmet.
90 % of them don't have a helmet.
mean, know, like do the math on that.
Okay, so 4,000 children who've been fatally injured multiply that times 90%.
That means only 400.
Only 400 of those 4,000 children had helmets on.
Do you think that you could like literally not be in a situation where your family is atrisk just by simply putting a helmet on?
(30:53):
There's your answer, but you can't get people to do that because they don't think thatthey're in any danger.
They don't think that they're doing anything dangerous.
and they have no idea whether they're doing anything dangerous because they have no ideawhat's dangerous.
This is the thing.
This is the paradox.
the solution, the solution, I'm glad you brought that up, like, you know, this, and it isa differentiation between powersports enthusiasts and recreational riders, recreational
(31:22):
owners.
And by the way, you know, keep in mind that a lot of this equipment is being sold onFacebook marketplace or, you know, at a, you know, swap or whatever.
There isn't a dealer there to direct them to safety courses and those kinds of things.
Well, they're being sold at Lowe's and Tractor Supply and like more non-traditionaldealer, you know, that aren't powersports employees or enthusiasts as well.
(31:48):
Yeah, and actually, so there's your answer.
I mean, the answer really is, is to help people.
And this is where we are.
mean, we're not trying to scare people.
We're just trying to equip them because you don't have to be scared.
Why are we not using our athletes to engage communities?
They're traveling all over the country.
They're at all these events.
They're literally passing through the very same towns where these accidents are happeningand nobody's using these guys.
(32:13):
Not only that, you have guys that have retired that would love to stay involved in thesport and there's no system for them.
What I'm a strong advocate for at this point is a couple of things.
Early on in the process of this, we did a lot in which I've spent a lot of this time inthis podcast now talking to you about what the problem is.
(32:35):
And we do that, and then you walk, you roll out of the town like, well, I don't know, I'mjust telling you what the problem is.
Don't, don't, don't do these things.
but that's not good enough.
Okay.
And even when we go in and do large scale events, when we can train, we bring, inpartnership with, game and fish wardens, law enforcement, whether it's sheriff, county
sheriff, state patrol.
we, you know, have trauma specialists, certified safety instructors, professionalathletes.
(32:57):
We have a heavy, heavy lift.
go into communities.
ever there's nobody that you talk to and you say hey do you want to come and participatein this event we're going to train kids today they don't go no they're like yes absolutely
what where do want me okay so because people care about kids and people care about adultsas well but so this is what we do we go in and we do basic clinical instruction 10 minutes
(33:21):
of basic clinical instruction with certified safety instructors law enforcement officersor professional athletes doing the instruction on an every child in a district that we go
into will do ATVs, 10 minutes of that.
Then they rotate and they get 10 minutes of basic clinical instruction on UTVs, 10 minutesof dirt bike training, 10 minutes of snowmobile training in the North, it's e-bikes in the
(33:46):
South now.
And then 10 minutes of training on water, whether that's personal watercraft, pontoonboats, speed boats, whatever the community brings, they train on that.
And then they rotate and we fit every single one of those children with a helmet.
So we put a helmet on their head and go, Hey, honey, does that fit?
you know, listen, here's how you figure out whether this fits you or not.
And here's why it's important.
(34:07):
And, buckle the chin strap.
And we teach them how to buckle the chin strap.
And that is a major undertaking because we, have to have one instruction, one instructorfor every five kids.
For just for helmets.
So anyway, the point is, is that, you know, we've got this massive lift and,even after we do all of that, okay?
And we, you know, let pick on like Ashland, Wisconsin, for example, we just did 1200 kidsthere in the spring of last year.
(34:34):
And the thing is, is once we do it, um yeah, we roll out of town and we're like, well, Ihope you guys were listening.
Good luck.
Bye.
Cause there's nothing, now they're like, they know what they're supposed to do and theywant to go ride.
They want to have a place to go ride.
They want to have, you know, all these wonderful people in the powersports industry thatmentor other people.
(34:54):
That doesn't even exist there.
So where are they supposed to go?
Are they supposed to watch a video or I mean like this is the problem.
communities have not equipped people to have places that are safe where they can learn toride because people are trying to ban these things which is the counterintuitive problem.
(35:15):
It's, you know, don't kids under this age should never ride?
Well, okay, let's say you take that position.
If your attitude is that a child should never ride, well, first of all, they are riding.
You know, got news flash, they are riding or they're riding as passengers or they'reoperating the vehicles.
But what happens when they turn 16?
You think like all of a sudden they're magically gonna know how to ride?
(35:37):
No, now they think that they know how to ride and they think they need to be brave andthey got an ego attached to it.
And now they're getting on adult size machines, which weigh a ton.
And they're doing crazy things.
So all you're going to be doing is you're moving the injury and fatality data for theyoung kids into the 16 and older category because you haven't provided any training.
so, you know, culturally, that's the shift.
(35:59):
It's like, you know, I feel like we have a world of wonderful athletes that have masteredthe art of safety.
You Hubert Rowland is our co-founder.
You know, he's, you know, you know, he is deeply involved.
in the creation, development of stunts and has been doing it for over 30 years inpartnership with Travis Pastrana and the crew at Nitro Circus.
(36:22):
as you know, BRP is our major uh partner.
the thing is that they understand and they're like, hey, we've got these resources, howcan we help you do this?
Now, all of these people that are so full of knowledge,The communities don't recognize that the answer is the very thing that they're accusing as
being the problem.
(36:46):
They're not the problem.
They're the answer.
It's quite literally that, that, you know, I mean, I hope everybody has the same level ofepiphany and aha moment that I have had after going through and realizing like, Hey,
we're, we can do only a certain amount and then we're to roll out of town.
And now what are you going to do?
You still have to find people that are experts that understand safety.
(37:09):
and that enjoy it.
And if you are trying to discourage that, you've now eliminated the very solution.
And it has to be an ongoing conversation too.
To your point.
one touch point is great, but it's only one touch point and it has to have follow up andcontinual kind of social and cultural buy-in to it over and over again.
(37:34):
I mean, My parents were always very safety minded about us riding dirt bikes as kids andthen riding street bikes as I got older.
But we were a powersports family.
So again, for that huge demographic, that 65 % that isn't, that's a real challenge toreach them.
And I think going into the schools, like you said, is a huge win because you're reaching amuch larger demographic than just going to powersports events or focusing on powersports
(38:00):
families.
So yeah, that's really cool that you've been able to do that.
well, thank you.
there's nothing great about me.
We had a family tragedy.
And my heart is I've always been this way.
Like I care about people.
If I know something awful has happened, I am going to do whatever it takes to not, youknow, see somebody go through that.
It's just a natural thing.
(38:20):
because I'd been in the industry for 25 years at the time of Logan's uh fatality, Irecognized that I was uniquely positioned to do something about it because of the
relationships I have.
while there were a lot of things I didn't understand, there's a lot of things I've come toknow.
I definitely recognize that, if we've all built this incredible network of amazing eventsand, you know, this wonderful lifestyle of powersports where people
(38:46):
can get out and explore this great country that we live in with all these incredibleplaces and bring places to people that they were never able to go to and have camaraderie
and friendship and stories and time together and to be on that wonderful adventure.
mean, thank God for the OEMs who have manufactured these incredible vehicles that allow usto do that.
(39:08):
But that vast network of people that we've been able to invite into itThey are truly the ones with the answer.
mean, you have the greatest, like 6D helmets, for example, the knowledge and technologythat they have about helmets and about brain injury and traumatic brain injury and how to
prevent it.
They're the experts.
(39:29):
Or fly racing or Thor or any of the helmet manufacturers, they have a knowledge that it'snot like, hey, I think I'm just going to create a helmet.
I mean, think of the amount of time and effort and technology and product development andtesting and all of the accidents they've experienced throughout the course of their
(39:51):
career.
I tell people all the time, hey, never in the history of the world have we ever had bettergear.
Never.
and that it's taken so lightly like it doesn't have any value.
You know, I had an interesting conversation with one of the helmet manufacturers and hesaid that as this was a
(40:11):
about two years ago, he said, as UTV sales climb, helmet sales are going down.
Well, so, you know, we, talking about adults, you know, we work with law enforcement and,you know, we're on the scenes of these accidents and they flat out tell us, listen, well,
okay, let's say you don't have a helmet on in a side by side and you think like, well, Idon't need one.
(40:32):
I don't need one.
Okay.
Well, why don't you need one again?
Oh, because I'm in a side by side.
Okay.
So you can't smack your head on the, on the roll bar.
Like don't think that's possible?
Or you don't think like your head can go, if you wrote like your head's gonna crack outthe window?
People just don't, they have this, they're lulled into this idea that this is easy to do.
(40:53):
I'm not saying that these things are complicated, but there is a learning curve.
there are guys that have been riding or women that have been riding for 30 years that havea lot to learn.
And where are you gonna go to get that information?
It's the industry.
The industry is this beautiful place.
the question is, is how do we, how do we help leverage that for us at the RideSafeFoundation?
(41:17):
We, not only do we do events, I've spent a lot of time in the last couple of years workingwith people that have solutions.
One of the biggest things I feel that we need in this country is I feel like we needprogramming that's geared towards kids because nothing exists.
We've had a production company that we spent quite a bit of time with out of New Yorkthat's created an animated pilot.
You can find that on our YouTube channel.
(41:38):
It's called Jack's Wild Ride.
They invested in time and development to create an animated series that's geared forchildren 4 to 12.
We have an opportunity to create 12 unique episodes, but we have no partners to do that.
And the RideSafe Foundation, it's not our business to go and get something like thatfunded because that does not benefit the RideSafe Foundation.
(41:59):
you know, for us to take our resources at the RideSafe Foundation and go and try to createthe actual solution, we're not in a position to do that.
But until somebody wants to go raise $120,000, which is what it's going to take to developa series, but that's all it takes.
so, you know, it seems like a lot of money, but is it because if an injury is $247,000,$74,000,
(42:23):
oh Why can't we raise $120,000 to produce a series that suddenly children all across thenation and the world could watch this in their, you know, at home or when they're with
their grandparents, which by the way, the vast majority of children that are injured arewith their grandparents.
I hate to tell you that, but, and it's not because their grandparents don't love theirkids.
They just literally don't understand.
(42:45):
And how many mothers I've talked to or grandmothers I've talked to whowhose hearts are absolutely shattered and broken and they cannot stop crying because their
babies have been fatally injured.
And they keep saying the same thing, why didn't anybody tell me?
Why didn't I know that?
And so, I feel like it's just simple things.
(43:10):
anyway, the animated series I think is one thing that I think it's an easy solution.
I think, you know, but again, the RideSafe Foundation can't fund that.
And we also, you know, can't allocate our resources to go out and try to find people tofund it.
But nobody has picked that mantle up.
for individuals, schools, companies that want to support the RideSafe Foundation mission.
(43:34):
What are some ways that they can partner?
How can they get in touch with you, whether it's via your website or social media?
Well, we do have a Facebook page.
This is we predominantly, oh you know, I'm pretty vocal on there.
Like if I see trends, I communicate there, but you can find us on Facebook.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
I'm probably most vocal on LinkedIn on the issue of safety and just the trends that wesee.
(43:58):
So it's a really great resource to follow me on LinkedIn because you'll get the reports,you'll get the analysis of the state, and you can email and message me there.
My email is Kristin at ridesafefoundation.org so you can contact me that way.
yeah, mean, we've got, there's an opportunity for people to subscribe to our newsletter onour website also.
(44:22):
you know, but I mean, I welcome it.
think, you know, there's, people can give to the RideSafe Foundation.
There's a donation button there.
We have nothing in place to lead a mass campaign to raise money for the RideSafeFoundation, but if we have those resources, we could do a lot more.
We could hire a lot more project managers.
We could do a lot more in a lot of states.
But again, we aren't leading some big initiative to go and raise funds.
(44:46):
We are in the business of going and training kids with the core partnerships that we havewho fund what we do.
you know, if companies or individuals are interested insupporting what we do.
I mean, I'd just love to chat with them One of the things that I, that I feel that weshould be doing at the RideSafe Foundation is simply to equip communities to have
(45:11):
conversation.
That's all we're trying to do.
Like I'm trying to give people the tools and the resources so that they can have theconversation themselves so that I don't have to, you know, I mean, I can't, like, it can
only be so many places.
And so,It's not possible for me to speak with people in every community, but if we have resources
that can be disseminated, we need people to distribute that.
(45:33):
To me, utility companies, gas companies, electric companies, grocery stores, conveniencestores, uh your point, farm and fleet or tractor supply or any of these farm implement
stores, they have the customers that are using this equipment.
And they are in a position to communicate with those people about what the five we have onour website, the five red flag warnings, which are the five leading causes of child injury
(46:00):
and fatality, the five leading contributing factors And, know, like, grab that, share thatwith people, tell people what it is.
but yeah, we we'd love to speak with people and come up with a plan.
Yeah, and for anybody that's just looking for resources as a parent, as grandparent, afamily member, obviously check out the website as well and I'll be sure to link that in
(46:23):
the show notes.
But Kristen, I really appreciate you joining me.
Definitely a hard topic to talk about at times, especially when you've been so personallyimpacted.
So thank you for everything that you've done for the foundation and for the industry andfamilies in general.
Awesome, well I really appreciate the opportunity to be here and share it with people,Heather.
(46:43):
I'm available, I tell people, know, don't be afraid to call me or text me or email me.
I'm never too busy, I wanna hear and we wanna help.
Well, thank you and thanks to everybody for tuning into Momentum.
This has been a production of High Gear Success.
If you want to connect or recommend a guest, head to MomentumMotorsportsPodcast.com.
(47:03):
Until next time, keep the momentum rolling.
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