Holding the Mother: How One Mom Found Healing After Her Son’s Heart Journey

When motherhood takes an unexpected turn, where do you find the strength to keep going?

In this emotional and powerful episode, host Jacqueline Baird sits down with Kath Hansen—a Brisbane mom of four, founder of the baby brand Bubba Cloud, and host of The Modern Mother Podcast. Kath opens up about her youngest son Odin’s rare congenital heart condition, months spent in the NICU, and the raw reality of parenting through trauma.

Together, Jacqueline and Kath explore what it means to mother through uncertainty, navigate grief, balance family life after medical challenges, and rediscover yourself amid the chaos. Their shared experiences of NICU life and loss offer comfort, courage, and community to any mom who’s ever felt alone in her journey.

💛 In this episode, you’ll hear:

• How Kath learned her son had a rare heart condition during pregnancy
• The emotional toll of months spent in the hospital and multiple surgeries
• The impact of trauma on motherhood and identity
• Why “holding the mother” is as vital as caring for the baby
• How Kath channels her experience into purpose through Bubba Cloud and The Modern Mother Podcast

✨ Connect with Kath:

• @bubbacloud
• @_kathhansen
• @themodernmother.pod

🌻 Join Your Fertility Village:
A safe, supportive community for women navigating infertility, pregnancy, and motherhood after loss. Become a Founding Member for just $7/month and lock in that price for life: Join here!

🎧 Follow Motherhood Intended:
@motherhood_intended

Support the show

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💛 You don’t have to do this alone. Join Your Fertility Village — a safe, supportive community for women on their fertility journey. 🌻__________________________________________________________________________________

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Are you tired of scrolling your feed only to see
the highlight reel version ofmotherhood?
If so, then you're in the rightplace.
Welcome to the MotherhoodIntended podcast.
I'm your host, Jacqueline Baird,and I'm a passionate mom here to
support women like you in theirunique journeys to and through
motherhood.
I have been through it all.
We're gonna be talking aboutthings like trying to conceive,

(00:22):
infertility, IVF, surrogacy, momlife, and more.
It's time to get real about whatit takes to be a mom and come
together in the fact that thingsdon't always go as planned.
So here we go.
Hey friends, welcome back toMotherhood Intended.
I'm your host, Jaclyn Baird, andas always, I'm so glad you're

(00:43):
here.
Thanks for hitting play on theepisode.
I hope this moment is findingyou in a time of peace.
Hopefully, a moment to yourself,whether you're on your commute
or holding laundry or whateveryou're doing.
I hope you're at least taking amoment for yourself.
And I assume because you hitplay on this episode, you are
interested in knowing that youare not alone.

(01:06):
You want to hear from otherwomen who are navigating this
crazy world of infertility.
And you want to hear from womenwho are going through it in
motherhood, right?
There are so many ups and downsin motherhood, and it's
important that you know you'renot alone.
I am happily finding myself in aquiet moment this morning, which
doesn't always happen.
It's been a while before I'veeven attempted to wake up before

(01:28):
my kids because it's justdoesn't always work for me.
And typically I stay up laterfor my moment of peace alone
just because I know I can relyon that.
No one's gonna wake up.
But there's something aboutstarting your day for you and
setting the intentions.
I'm trying to get better atthat.
But I can happily say here I amwith coffee in hand, recording
this intro for you.
No, I'd be lying if I didn't saythat.

(01:49):
I showered, I got myself ready,I went downstairs to grab my
coffee and my computer.
And what do I hear?
Of course, it was one of thechildren, it was my oldest,
coming downstairs.
And I'm like, no, no, no, no,no, no, no.
Because in my mind, I had 40minutes until anyone usually
gets up.
But of course, the day that Iwant to be up before everybody,
someone has other plans.

(02:10):
No worries, set him up in hisroom listening to a Tony on his
Tony box.
And the weather helps too thisseason because it's literally
still dark outside.
And I'm like, nope, sun's notup, we're not up.
Don't do it.
Anyway, here I am, alone,finally in my office.
And I'm happy to be here withyou because today's episode is
one that will move you deeply.

(02:30):
I'm joined by Kath Hansen.
She's a Brisbane mom of four,founder of the beautiful baby
care brand Bubba Cloud, andshe's host of the Modern Mother
podcast.
Kath's journey is a powerfulstory of love and resilience.
Her youngest son, Odin, was bornwith a rare congenital heart
condition and spent the firstfive months of his life in the
hospital.

(02:51):
Through surgeries and familychallenges and the day-to-day of
raising four children, includingone with neurodiversity, Kath
has found strength invulnerability and a beautiful
sense of grace in the chaos.
In our conversation, she opensup about parenting through
trauma, protecting your mentalhealth, and finding light even
in the hardest seasons ofmotherhood.

(03:12):
We are able to candidly talkabout our experiences with the
NICU and connect on that level.
Even though our experiences weredifferent, there's something
about going through such atraumatic event with your child
and for long periods of timewhile also trying to mother
others that can really bond twopeople.
So it was so nice to connectwith her on that level.
And whether you're walkingthrough uncertainty yourself or

(03:35):
just need a reminder that you'renot alone, this one's for you.
Before we dive into thisepisode, I do want to quickly
remind you about your fertilityvillage.
It's my online community thatwas created to support women who
are navigating their fertilityjourneys or simply seeking
connection after infertility.
It's a space full of resources,real conversations, and women

(03:57):
who get it.
This community is very near anddear to my heart.
And it's something that I am soexcited to launch.
And I'm just so excited to seewhere it's going to go because
my vision for this community isto hold the hands of women who
are in the trenches ofinfertility.
But then as they become mothersor as they make different

(04:18):
choices in their family-buildingjourneys, or maybe they choose
to live a childless life,wherever that journey takes you,
at the end of it, I want yourfertility village to still be
your space and you will haveyour people who have chosen
similar paths with you to helpyou through it.
Because I can honestly say thatafter being a NICU mom, a loss
mom, an infertility mom, a momthrough surrogacy, all the

(04:42):
different avenues I took tocomplete my family, it looks a
little different for being a momof, you know, after 10 years of
going through so many differentthings than another mom who may
not have experienced thosethings.
So I want to make sure thatwomen have their village for it
all.
Currently, I am acceptingfounding members from now
through the end of the year.
And the price to be a foundingmember is only$7 a month.

(05:05):
And truly, that is all goingback into the community to
provide you the best resourcesand events and really get this
village going.
As a founding member, you lockin that price for life,
regardless of all of theresources and things that we add
over time.
You will always only pay$7 amonth.
Plus, you get a special foundingmember badge and the perks of

(05:27):
being part of this village fromthe ground floor up.
You'll help me build it withexactly what you need.
I hope you join me.
I'm so excited about it.
You can join us through the linkin today's show notes.
Okay, let's get into today'sconversation with the amazing
Kath Hansen.
Kath, thank you so much forjoining me today.
For listeners who might just bemeeting you for the first time,

(05:50):
can you share a little bit aboutyour family and what life looks
like for you right now?

SPEAKER_02 (05:55):
Well, right now it is kind of as always.
I am a mum of four.
So I have a 12-year-old,nine-year-old, three-year-old,
and a one-year-old.
We've spent most of the firstfive months of my one-year-old's
life in hospital.
So we're just starting toreadjust.
He's now one back into what Iwould call a normal life, but

(06:17):
it's never normal.
Yeah, it's always changing.
What is normal?
I own an e-commerce businesscalled Bubba Cloud.
So I've just relaunched that andlooking at really expanding that
into more products, of course,but making it a more holistic

(06:38):
business that we're not just ababy brand, we also have a big
heart behind us, and reallymaking sure that we're holding
the mother throughout thatpregnancy postpartum motherhood
journey as well.

SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Yeah.
I love that for a full circlemoment.
Gotta love that.
Tell me a little bit about,let's go back to you said your
youngest son just turned one.
Your son was born with a rareheart condition.
What do you remember about thattime?

SPEAKER_02 (07:06):
I think it's actually taken me, you know,
he's one now, so almost twoyears to really process this.
I was 26 weeks pregnant, and I'dactually missed my.
So I'm not sure if it's the samefor you guys, but in Australia,
we have a 20-week scan that wedo.
We look at the anatomy and lookat yep, everything.
Yes, same here.
Okay, I had missed that.

(07:26):
Fourth child, I'll get to it.
And we're going through a verybusy, hectic, emotional time in
other stuff in our lives.
So I was like, I'll just kind ofput it to the side.
Anyway, my doctor was, I wantyou to go and get it done.
And I was okay, okay, I'll getit done.
And interestingly, it actuallypresented to hospital because

(07:47):
I'd had a few panic attacks atabout 24 weeks, and they had
done an ultrasound and theychecked the NOVA and everything,
and everything was fine.
So again, I was kind of like Iwas seen, it's okay.
Yeah, it's all good.
So anyway, I went into this uhscan.
I went up by myself and I laidon that table for about two

(08:09):
hours while they looked over me.
Now the scenographer was a shewas coming over for X from
X-ray, so she was training to bea scenographer, and I was oh
she's just practicing, she'sjust training.
It's fine, it's all good, but Iwant to get out of here now.
I'm really sore now, it's twohours.

(08:30):
And then they brought anotherperson in.
Yeah, yeah.
And she looked at it, andthey're all just kind of I don't
know, there's a look on theirfaces, and you just kind of
know.
I wish I remember their exactwords, but it was something to
the nature of there's somethingthat we can't see on his heart,
but we're gonna go and get thesenior obstetrician up to have a

(08:51):
look at you.
I waited for him, but he was insurgery.
They're like, actually, he can'tcome and see you.
He's gonna call you within thenext, I think I've I'm sure they
said two weeks.
And I was what two weeks.
It was a long time to wait.
I just got up and I had I just II burst into tears.
I'd had some external stuffgoing on where people had said

(09:13):
not very nice things anddirectly related to the
pregnancy and the baby andwhatnot, and I was just like,
there can't be anything wrongwith this baby because I felt
just made these people right.
That was my instant reaction,and I kind of yeah, just walked
out of there, what the heck isgoing on?
Funnily enough, I ran into mydoula from my third birth, who

(09:36):
was just a saint and made thatjourney very beautiful,
everything I could kind of wishfor for a pregnancy and a
postpartum.
And that was just a bit of aguiding light angel sitting
there out in the elevators forme.
Thankfully, by 5 p.m.
that afternoon, the obstetriciancalled us and he said, Look,

(09:56):
yep, there's I was on mydaughter's bedroom floor,
there's something going on withhis heart.
One of the valves is closed, butI can't give you too much more
detail.
I'm gonna book you into thematernal fetal medicine team
down in Brisbane.
So we lived on the SunshineCoasts, and your listeners
probably have no idea what I'mtalking about, but it's about an

(10:19):
hour, hour and a half away fromeach other.
But the maternal fetal the MARDAhospital has a bigger resource,
it has that maternal fetalmedicine team.
And then thankfully they calledus almost straight away.
Okay, so it's like again, youmight not hear from them for a
week.

SPEAKER_00 (10:39):
Long time, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
Yeah, so this is a Friday afternoon, and they
called us straight away and theybooked us in on Monday, which
was amazing, but also kind offrightening that they went to
see us so quickly.
So that was the initial findingout of that.
Yeah, yes, it was a very numbweekend.

(11:03):
I think I really tried to justhave positive self-talk, and I
just did my best to look forwhat I possibly could to get
through the weekend.

SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
It's really all you can do at that point, right?

SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
Yes, yeah, and it was just unbelievable.
And I guess I was really naiveto all of this, being your
fourth baby and nothing I hadn'texperienced anything this
before.
Thankfully, I hadn't experiencedloss before, so it was just very
surreal.
Fast forward to the Monday, wewent to the maternal fetal
medicine team.
That was a very intense, numbprocess, and I think probably I

(11:38):
just had to go numb becausethat's how I survived.

SPEAKER_00 (11:42):
Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a survival mode
tactic.
I'm I'm familiar with that aswell.

SPEAKER_02 (11:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
I remember going into the room,obviously, and the cardiologist
was there, and the anothersonographer, but this
sonographer was amazing.
Her job is to look the way theyspoke to each other, bounced off
each other, which made me feelgood.

SPEAKER_00 (12:04):
You know what they're doing.

SPEAKER_02 (12:05):
I don't have to go and get lots of different
opinions.
And the cardiologist, he kind ofscared me to begin with, and
ended up having a reallybeautiful relationship with him.
Grateful for him throughout ourjourney.
He was someone we always lookedto.
The cardiologist comes in withthe maternal fetal medicine

(12:26):
nurse, they sit us down, and hebasically says, It's time to
listen.
And he had this really elaboratedrawing of a heart, and he said,
This is what's going on.
Your baby has pulmonaryattraction, which means the
valve to the right side of theright chamber is closed, which

(12:49):
means that his right chamber isseverely underdeveloped, and it
really probably won't develop.
I know your listeners can't see,but there's your left side of
your heart, and his right isthis big, it doesn't do
anything.
Now that's the chamber that toyour lungs.

(13:10):
He explained that in bed isquote unquote fine, but left out
to breathe and whatnot.
That was also a lot of numb.

SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
That's a lot to digest.

SPEAKER_02 (13:20):
Just I can remember the nurse, just kept looking
back to me and then back at thecardiologist.
And I remember Trent jumped inand was wait, wait, wait, wait,
and he said something like thatdoctor was no, you need to stop
and let me explain.
In that moment, I was like, Whoare you?

SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
Stop and delivering this news to us.

SPEAKER_02 (13:42):
But in hindsight, I see now he really just needed to
get all of that information out,which then led us to, you know,
we are questioning, we are okay,what do we do?
What's what does his life looklike?
What yeah, kind of puzzled andconfused, which led them to give
us the three options of hislife.

(14:05):
They said that I could go andterminate basically straight
away.
They the second option was to dopalliative care.
And I wasn't aware of whatpalliative care was.

SPEAKER_00 (14:15):
I thought naively that was for older people who
are in yeah, that's unlessyou're in that situation, I
would have thought the same.

SPEAKER_02 (14:24):
Yes, quickly for your listeners, in case they're
not aware of what that is, thatis where baby is birthed at full
term and decides when theyleave.
Now, with that option, he uhsaid that heart babies can last
two days, six hours, two days,two weeks, three months.

(14:46):
Oh gosh.
Yeah, uh just that's a lot.
Our third option was to birthbaby at home and go down the
surgery route.
That was just a big meeting.
We walked out of that hospitalvery just silent.

SPEAKER_00 (15:05):
It's a decision that you shouldn't have to make.
That's hard.
It's a lot to digest.

SPEAKER_02 (15:10):
I don't really have the words to be honest with you
to describe it.
I think I probably went intoinstant problem solving mode.
I called my best friend andreflecting on it now, I believe
I was almost trying to reassureeveryone around me that
everything was going to be okay.

SPEAKER_00 (15:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (15:27):
I believe I did that throughout a lot of the journey.
I suppressed a lot of myemotions because I want everyone
around me to stay positive.
And I don't know if everyonecould quite hold how heavy this
was.
And that's nothing on them, it'sjust not everyone has the
ability.
And I think if you haven't beenthrough that scenario, you

(15:50):
probably don't know how to holdit.

SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
Yeah, it's true.
I mean, unless you're in that,you can try and imagine given
the facts, but it's other peoplearen't gonna understand that
that weight for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (16:02):
Yeah, and then comes into it opinions of what other
people would do and thempotentially overlaying their
opinions.
And yeah, it was a veryinteresting decision to move
through and make sure that weweren't influenced by anyone
else's opinion.
Um, and it was a very much aheart decision.

SPEAKER_00 (16:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (16:25):
Yeah.
So within two days we knew wewere going to do, and that was
that was harrowing.
That time it was just, Iremember sitting on the bathroom
floor, just yelling to theangels, you know, yelling to the
universe, saying, Why me?
Why now?
Like, aren't we already goingthrough enough shit?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
How are we taking on one more thing?

SPEAKER_02 (16:46):
Yeah, I just couldn't believe it.
And then I felt this poorsomething that topped the whole
or sat very much at the top wasthe guilt that I felt for my
other children, and they werevery much a part of the
decision-making process to birthOdin.
I've just got battled withmother guilt as I think we all

(17:10):
do before, and nothing had feltquite like that.

SPEAKER_00 (17:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (17:15):
So yeah, two days it took.
I was actually pup-packing BubbaClouds, and I pulled out uh
packing so many like 200pre-orders or something like
that.

SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
So I knew I just had to keep going.
As we do, yeah.

unknown (17:32):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (17:33):
Pre-orders out.
And I look back up, there's avideo of me packing, and I'm
like, yeah, now I can see.
I'm like, oh, that's that wild.

SPEAKER_00 (17:40):
Like when you look back at some photos, there's
been times where I've been, youknow, whether it was following a
loss or just same thing, like areally heavy, like fork in the
row that we're trying tonavigate.
And I will see a picture ofmyself from that time now.
And there I was doing life, butI can immediately feel what I
was feeling in that moment.
There is a level of numberstowards it because you said

(18:01):
earlier, it's it's really asurvival mode.
I mean, you have other kids, youhave a business you're running,
and you have this super heavydecision, and and just gosh, all
of it at once.
But as we do as moms, we're justthere you are.
You're just keep going and doingyour best.

SPEAKER_02 (18:17):
Yeah, exactly.
That's yeah, really packing upproduct.
I couldn't let these customersdown.
I couldn't wait.
Yeah.
And I was also packing a babyproduct and packing a baby
lounger.
So it was just a yeah, almostfull circle.
It was just intense to belooking at these products.

(18:39):
And I did feel I think what gotme through that was actually I
felt just this massive sense ofgratitude that I was able to, no
matter what my situation was, Iwas able to pack these for these
mums, and these clouds weregoing to hold many memories,
babies, and I think that's whatmoved me through.

(19:00):
I picked up a pinstripe above acloud cover, and I don't know, I
don't know what it was, whetherthe angels are coming down, they
knew what it was, but I justlooked at it and that's when I
saw him.
And I don't know, somethingswitched, and I was like, okay,
we're birthing.
That's it.

SPEAKER_00 (19:16):
Yep.

SPEAKER_02 (19:17):
Yeah, yeah.
So that was the decision day.

SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
Yeah, goodness.
And then from there, I mean, I'msure that's scary too, right?
Even though you made thedecision, it's what what next?
What is that gonna look like?

SPEAKER_02 (19:30):
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, it was a lot ofappointments.
We were back and forth from thehospital one or two times a week
and going through a lot of a lotof planning.
It was around that time that wedecided that we were actually
going to move to Brisbane tobirth baby.
Okay.
We probably could have stayed onthe coast, but now looking at

(19:52):
it, it would have been nearlyimpossible to stay out the
coast.
I really wanted to make surethat the older children and the
two-year-old at the time wasable to pop in for 15 minutes if
they wanted to, or go and seehim before school if they wanted
to.
I wanted them very muchinvolved, as much as they wanted

(20:15):
to be involved in the process.
It also would have meant that ifwe were on the course, that
because I was a scheduled Csection, I wouldn't have been
able to drive back and forth tothe big kids.
I would have been away fromthem.
I felt it was a more of a movingwas a disruption, but I felt

(20:36):
like that would have just been amassive disruption.
And now looking at the fivemonths, pretty much five months
that we spent in hospital, um,that was the right decision.

SPEAKER_00 (20:46):
Yeah, that was gonna be my next question.
Obviously, there was a lotinvolved and long months in the
hospital and everything, and allbefore his first birthday.
This is the start of all ofthis.
Was it multiple surgeries?
And then was he in the NICU, orwhat did daily life look like
during that season for all ofyou?
It sounds like the move wasobviously helpful and
manageable.

(21:06):
You guys all had access, but I'mfamiliar with the NICU as well.
My oldest son spent four monthsin the NICU when he was born, 24
weeks, extremely premature.
And those are long days, andit's groundhog day, and then you
add in surgeries, everythingyou're navigating.
What did that daily life looklike for you during that season
of hospital stays?

SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Yes, well, you're right.
Thank gosh we moved because thehospital's 15 minutes away, and
they did tell us that we neededto be from 36 weeks gestation.
We needed to be within 15minutes from the hospital.
And I was also becoming morehigh risk.
I've been back a little bit, Iwas becoming more high risk by

(21:46):
34 weeks.
We had moved.

SPEAKER_00 (21:48):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
Uh two days before we moved.
This is the other part of Odin'sstory.
Two days before we moved, I hadhad a amniocentosis, I was very
full of fluid.
I'm and I was just huge, yeah,very sore.
I had the amniocentosis, and itcame back as a positive for a

(22:10):
genetic condition called 22Qdeletion.
I'm missing a part of his 22chromosome.

SPEAKER_00 (22:17):
Oh wow.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (22:19):
Yes, which explained the heart disease.

SPEAKER_00 (22:22):
Gotcha.
And was this possibility on yourradar?
Did they mention anything abouthow I don't know if the heart
disease it could just be randomor if that was a way to confirm,
or was this just because of yourfluid, then they did the test?

SPEAKER_02 (22:36):
Yeah, this obstetrician that I hadn't seen
was like, Why haven't you had anamniocentosis?
And I was like, Well, I don'treally need one.
They did the genetic test, theNIPS test way back at four
weeks, six weeks, pregnant,whatever it was.
And he's like, No, you need togo and get one.
And I remember him saying, Don'tworry, everything will be fine,

(22:57):
but I want you to go and getone.
And he must have seen a look onmy face.
Yeah.
Then I went in and I was like,and by that time I had
completely surrendered.
I think I'm quite a holy it's aholistic person, and I can look
at birth as that kind ofexperience.
But this was completelycompletely the opposite.

(23:22):
We fast forward to two daysbefore we moved at 34 weeks
pregnant.
We found out, and by that time Iwas like, oh well, the house is
packed.
We're in.
This doesn't it does it changeanything, and we had just I just
accepted that Odin would be twoyears.
It does place a lot morecomplications.
22Q deletion, which is alsoknown as the George syndrome,

(23:46):
can be widespread, the effectsof it from ADHD to clect palate
to lower immunity, to uhlearning delays, to heart
defects.

SPEAKER_00 (24:01):
This is all this is new to me.
I I was not familiar with this.
That's gosh, I can only imaginehow are you feeling now with
even now finding out this newinformation.
I guess you did mention yousurrendered, and I think
sometimes that's that's what wehave to do.
I'm a lot like you.
I've also been a big advocatefor myself and been like, well,
why are we doing this or why?
But sometimes I feel like itwhen things start piling up,

(24:23):
we're only capable of handlingso much.
And sometimes you do have tosurrender and pray for the best
and trust the doctors that theyknow what they're doing because
that's that's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 (24:31):
Yeah, and that that was it.
It was just like, okay, what wehave to do.

SPEAKER_00 (24:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (24:37):
Yeah, been through so much that year that it was
kind of just another thing thatwe another obstacle, another
thing that we needed toovercome.
Of course, they gave us theoption again that we could
terminate then or birth and dopalliative care.
But as I said, those thoseoptions just weren't went
through them in depth, ofcourse, as you do, but they just

(24:58):
weren't an option for us.
Um, I couldn't I couldn'tenvision bringing a baby home
and one day him being there andthe next day him not, or you
know, like the kids waking upand him not being with us
anymore.

SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
Yeah.
So I couldn't do that either,and that's a lot to think about,
uh, especially because you yousaid you have other kids.
It's a family that we'rethinking about.
It's not you as the mom or asparents, it's you've got a whole
family.

SPEAKER_02 (25:26):
So that's right.
And even if we were in hospitalfor two months with him, and
that's how long he chose to beon the earth for, I would be
there the whole time.
Like I wouldn't have been withthe other kids at all.
And also, as you are pro I'm notsure what it's like for you
guys, but in NICU, we you can'tstay there.

SPEAKER_00 (25:45):
Yeah, I think every hospital is different, but yeah,
for us at our hospital, no, youcouldn't stay.
It was every every day we weregoing up and home back and forth
every day.
Yeah, just so that in itself isso hard, but I think knowing
that we and we were there withmy oldest, we didn't have
children at home yet, and it wasa little more manageable, but I
we talk about this all the timebecause I have three children

(26:07):
now on, and I I can't imaginehaving to go back and forth.
It's it's a lot, as you know.

SPEAKER_02 (26:14):
Yeah, much, yeah.
Yes, 22Q dilution.
We moved I had 2.5 liters ofamyloid fluid drained from my
stomach.

unknown (26:27):
Wow.

SPEAKER_02 (26:28):
At about 36 weeks, I was stayed in hospital for three
nights then.
That was weird that process.
The amino symptosis and justhaving a needle into your
stomach while you're pregnant isreally weird.

SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
Yeah, that's jarring.
I can only imagine.
It's something doesn't feelright.

SPEAKER_02 (26:50):
No, it doesn't feel right.
And again, even with that, I'vehad just like okay, that's what
you need to do.
Of course, there's a risk ofrupture and having to birth
early, which they didn't wantfor him.
They wanted him as meaty andgrown as as possible.
We were birth going to birth at39 weeks, we ended up birthing

(27:13):
at 38 weeks.
He was worried, I just keptfilling up with fluid, it just
wouldn't fill up.
It felt like I had broken ribsall the time.
Oh just because it was justfull, right?

SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
All that pressure.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
Yes, and that's how I kind of said to them look.
This isn't normal.
I keep pushing, I feel he's inmy ribs, and I keep pushing him
out.
But when we would look, hewouldn't be in my ribs, and
that's how we kind of what came.
The physio came and saw me whileI was in hospital, and she's
like, Yeah, it's it's tornbasically.
Your muscles there are torn, butpainful.

SPEAKER_00 (27:51):
I did not experience that specifically, but I had
with my second, I hadpolyhydramniose, which was
excessive fluid.
And that's when I started tolearn that that could point
towards different things.
It was a little bit earlier on,I think I was 21 weeks or 22,
something like that.
They didn't want to do any kindof tests at that point.

(28:12):
And I wasn't, I wasn't whatyou're describing, it wasn't
that big, but I had no idea thatthis fluid that all this fluid
was even a thing.
They gave me other medications,and I spent the month in the
hospital because it was causingpreterm labor and all this
stuff.
Eventually it calmed down.
But one of the things they said,but could point to certain
genetic factors, and same thing,I did um the test that you do

(28:35):
early on.
And then, you know, we did IVF.
This was an embryo that wegenetically tested.
So, and you you don't know whatyou don't know.
I didn't know all of the otherthings that not every test cover
every single thing, you know.
Like I was just like, Well, we Ithink we're good.
At that point, they were tellingme they were like, Well, it
could just be a fluke too.
Sometimes, you know, excess offluid is just something that

(28:55):
happens in pregnancy, and I'mokay, and and it did go down
with medication, but um yeah, Iwas not in as much pain as you,
but it I definitely lookedfurther along than I was.
Yeah, gosh, I'm so how so thenyou had your scheduled
C-section, and that all wentsmoothly, or how did was
delivery?
Was that okay?
And then how soon after deliverywas his first surgery?

SPEAKER_02 (29:19):
Yeah, so we yeah, delivered 38 weeks on the dot.
He came out.
I had made a pack to him.
I said, mate, you need to comeout at three kilos.
That's what I want you to hit.
He was 2.8 or whatever when we'dhad our last ultrasound.
And he came out, and my ummaternal fiddle medicine midwife
ran over to me and she said,He's three kilos on the dot,

(29:44):
three kilos.
That's my first sign.
I just took it as a sign.
I was right, we're on, we're on,it's okay.
The birth itself was I could saybeautiful, but it was scary as
fuck, actually.
No idea.
Did you deliver C section?

SPEAKER_00 (30:02):
I did.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (30:03):
Okay.
Yeah.
It's intrusive at it at its atits best.

SPEAKER_00 (30:08):
Yeah.
And a scheduled C-section too.
I it's mine was scheduled aswell.
Mine was at 37 weeks and one ortwo days.
And it's weird walking in thereknowing, all right, this is what
we're doing.
It's an odd feeling.
It's very stressful.

SPEAKER_02 (30:23):
Yeah, it's baby morning.
We're driving to the hospital tohave a baby.

SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
Yep, just walking in.

SPEAKER_02 (30:28):
You know, it's my whole C-section.
I don't think it becomes anymore familiar, right?
That feeling of going to thehospital to Yeah.
Yeah, it was it.
That hospital, I it was justamazing.
And they definitely looked afterme.
There was a lot of people inthat room.
A lot of people, the intensivecare unit was there waiting, or

(30:51):
the critical care unit was therewaiting for him in the other
room to go straight.
And they said he will probablygo straight to them.
You won't be able to cuddle him,you won't be able to give him a
kiss.
He will just go straight over tothe team.
I that was Trent's job to goover and be with him.
Yeah.
And we got photos and we hadmusic on.

(31:13):
It was pretty sure it wasdelivered to Keith Urban.
Days go by.

unknown (31:19):
That's funny.

SPEAKER_02 (31:20):
Yeah, it was that one, and we we had a a lovely
playlist, and uh the oh gosh, Ikind of remember the song.
Anyway, it brought the tears on.
Of course.
Yeah, it was surreal beingstitched up because I was being
stitched up and the baby wasover there.
I could yeah, you can't move.
I think you innately want to getup and go over.

SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (31:42):
But we're stuck.
Yeah.
I I also had a fear around thespinal block because I had been
injured from like a spinal blockbefore.
Thankfully, it was all good.
Go ahead.
Thank gosh, because I couldn'tthink I could go through the
aftermath of being having thatinjury in a critical care unit.
Thank you.

(32:03):
That was great.
I did get the shakes and sick,which I hadn't experienced
before in a C-section birth, butthat was pretty much it.
And yeah, wheeled out into therecovery unit.
I got very cold.
I hadn't experienced thatbefore, so they had to keep me
for a while until I warmed up.
Yeah.

(32:24):
Did you experience that?

SPEAKER_00 (32:25):
No, I did not experience that.
I didn't know my oldest, becausehe was he was he was born
vaginally, but a premature.
I was, I was after eight days ofbed rest in the hospital, and
then he was a total surprise,quick birth, and then c-section
with my second.
And then my youngest actuallywas carried by a surrogate
because I've had this and justcomplications and my body could

(32:47):
not do anymore.
But when my I had my C-section,I did not, I didn't experience
that.
But it is weird wanting to justyour body, you just want to get
up and be go get your baby andyou're and you can't.
And it's just it feelsunnatural.
But that honestly, I didn't knowreally any different at that
point because both my youngestsame thing being premature.
The second he was born, the teamrushed in, and I don't think I

(33:07):
held him for the first time fornine days because he was
premature and he was all thebells and whistles and plugged
up and and and and all of that.
Even though I had to wait withthe C-section to hold my second
son, it was for me, I was, well,this is nothing because before I
had to wait long, but yeah, noneof it feels natural just to
birth and then not be able tojust hold your baby.
It's it's all it's all verystrange.

(33:29):
But yeah, that's interesting.
We've done this three timesbefore, and it was some
different things going on foryou.
I wonder if just too your body,just with everything and the
news and distress, and it's justit kind of just you did it.

SPEAKER_02 (33:41):
Yeah, I think very much.
Yeah, the stress I've lookedinto that and the impacts of
stress and whatnot, and a lot ofthings kind of make sense.
Yeah, we headed.
I was in there for a littlewhile in the recovery unit.
Always, I don't know how thesemedications affect you, but I
I'm always slightly off my face.

(34:02):
Happy, happy, but just woo, inanother world.

SPEAKER_00 (34:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's how I felt.
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 (34:11):
Yeah.
Getting little updates fromTrent that all the nurses, I'm
pretty sure they were allcommunicating that he was okay,
that they had to do somesuction.
He went straight on to someoxygen.
He was doing okay.
Now they give them prostin tokeep the valves and the the
things pumping.

(34:31):
Prostin.
Okay, the medication or to bringon labor.

SPEAKER_00 (34:36):
Oh, that's the same thing.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (34:39):
They give the baby to keep things going.
That medication kept him alivefor until he had his first
surgery, which was at about 20days old.

SPEAKER_00 (34:53):
Okay.
Wow.
And going into this, did youknow that it was going to be
multiple surgeries, or was itkind of just uh you knew he was
gonna have one and then it wasgonna see how this worked out,
or did you know the game planbefore he was born?
I don't know how that works.

SPEAKER_02 (35:09):
Yes and no.
I think they're trying to giveyou as much information as they
possibly can, but there's oralways many variables, many
variables, especially when wefound out that he had 22q
deletion.
A lot of 22q babies are bornwith a cleft palate, just other
complications, breathingcomplications, low immunity, and

(35:32):
things like that.
So you have to kind of keep thatin mind.
But they did say that wassecondary to the heart.
The heart was the most importantthing that they were going to
focus on.
We were 10 days in the criticalcare unit at MARDA before we
transferred over to the nextdoor hospital, Queensland
Children's Health Hospital.
Unfortunately, the day that wetransferred over to Queensland's

(35:56):
children's hospital, he gotneck, which I'm not gonna try
and say necro acrylitis.

SPEAKER_00 (36:06):
I'm not gonna judge you, it sounds good to me.

SPEAKER_02 (36:08):
Intestines basically start dissolving.
A lot of primary babies actuallyget it, yeah.
Which was crazy, and that's whenwe had our first met call.

SPEAKER_00 (36:18):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (36:19):
Yeah, that put off his surgery.
We were waiting, waiting for abed over in the hospital, but
also waiting for his surgery tobe a lot of markers have to be
ticked before he can go in.
They're very amazing at oh gosh,kudos to these cardiologists and
cardiothoracic surgeons becausethey're very much if we have to
do it now, we will do it andwe'll we'll make it happen.

(36:40):
But we'd rather this, this, andthis, and this, and this to be
ticked off.
Yeah, yeah.
Unfortunately, he got neck andhe was off food, off milk, poor
little guy, for seven days andfull doses of antibiotics.
He was hungry, they can't youcan't eat.
Yeah, it was just okay not verynice.

SPEAKER_00 (37:05):
No, yeah, that's hard.

SPEAKER_02 (37:07):
Yes, and the first met call going through that, I
had left.
We'd moved hospitals and I hadleft with my mum for two hours,
maybe.
I'd obviously been by his sidefor days and days and two hours
to come back and put the kids tobed, or whatever I was doing at

(37:28):
home.
And on the way back, I got thecall, you need to come in.
I can't really again, I wish Iremember the words, but I know
that the nurse kept calling hima girl and that the baby's sick.
You she's sick, you need to getcome back here now.
And I was like, she, my baby, mybaby's a boy.

unknown (37:48):
What?

SPEAKER_02 (37:49):
Yeah.
I'm not gonna use this rightnow.
Oh, yes, Odin.
Yes, Hansen, baby of Hansen,yeah, yeah.
So gosh.
Poor Mum.
I almost bit Mum's head offbecause she's obviously, oh my
god, what's happened?
Stressing out.
And I was drive.
We need to get there.

SPEAKER_00 (38:09):
Of course it's the two hours, of course it's the
time you leave, right?
You're up there all the time.
Then you leave.
That is, isn't that whathappens?

SPEAKER_02 (38:18):
Yeah, and maybe it was a good thing.
I don't know, because if I wasthere, the nurses might not have
been as on top of him.

SPEAKER_00 (38:25):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Maybe wouldn't be as yeah,urgent and on it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (38:30):
Yeah.
I might I might not havenoticed.
Um, although, you know, they dotheir hourly checks, which they
would have noticed because histemp went right up.

SPEAKER_00 (38:39):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (38:40):
And in that special care nursery, there's only
there's only four beds.
So it's one nurse with twobabies.

SPEAKER_00 (38:48):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (38:49):
And she is a bl she's just an angel.
We actually saw her the otherday at our cardio checkup, and
she's an angel.
Very special, very specialhuman.
Yeah, we went through seven daysand then we were gearing up for
surgery.

unknown (39:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (39:03):
To swing back to your question.
I'm sorry, I know it's such anin-depth experience.

SPEAKER_00 (39:08):
No, trust me, I understand.
There's there's so much to it,and it's I'm just appreciate you
sharing.
It's also a hard thing to likerelive, right?
And go back to like what werethose days like, and it's a lot
to share.
So I appreciate you doing that.
And I I have to agree thatthere's something about these
Nik U nurses that they areangels on earth.
I don't know if we would havegotten through it, not even just

(39:29):
for their expertise and level ofcare, but like how caring they
are and being there for you.
Because I feel they're not onlynurses for our babies, but they
are they were literally therefor us, making sure we were sane
through it all.
I'm glad you had that person.

SPEAKER_02 (39:42):
Yes, in the hospital.
Yeah, that both hospitals justhad fant you're right,
fantastic, amazing nurses thatyeah, held us through all of the
other things and life changesthat we were going through.
Phenomenal.
Yeah.
I I I know we got on the samepage with that.

(40:04):
He was going to have threesurgeries at least.

SPEAKER_00 (40:07):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (40:07):
That was the minimum.
We knew that when he was theright weight and everything was
cheeked in the early days, hewas going to have a shunt.
Hopefully that's the right one.
Shunt put in, which looked alittle coiled.
Little white coil, it was tiny,it was a thumbnail long when
they got it out and showed us.

(40:29):
That's what they put in in thefirst one.
They go into the cath lab to dothat, it goes it up through an
arterial vein.
And I just know something thatreally shocked me from this
experience that I wasn'tprepared for.
And again, naively, might be thesame for you as well.
Is how many cords there were,and how many things were

(40:54):
inserted into his arterial veinsand all the leads coming out of
that.

SPEAKER_00 (40:59):
I that was something that I was yeah, they don't
quite prepare you for that,that's for sure.
It was shocking, and and evenmore just on such a little
human, right?
There's many things going on,and there's little that that's a
lot.
Yeah.
My son had a few differentsurgeries as well while he was
in the NICU, totally different.
But one of the things was withhis heart and it was to close,

(41:21):
forget what it stands for, buthe had PDA of the heart, which
is common in premix, especiallymicropremies, and they had to
close a valve or something thatnormally would close as he
matured, but because he was bornso early, it just didn't.
And yeah, leading up to surgeryand after and everything, I'm
just like, this is a lot on him,got all these all these things.
I was used to assistance withbreathing and he had a feeding

(41:42):
tube, but yeah, it's a it's alot.

SPEAKER_02 (41:44):
Yeah, you just don't realize.

SPEAKER_00 (41:46):
Yeah, you don't, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (41:48):
Yeah, he got this chump, stent champ put in his
heart to keep the valve open,and that was very much a
temporary situation with that.
Okay, so that was put in.
They went, they tried to go uphis leg arterial vein, but his
heart started doing funnythings, so they had to go
through his neck.

(42:09):
That was successful throughoutthat surgery.
They also did, and it'sliterally how the cardiologist
described it.
There is a better terminologyfor it, but I've got no idea
what it is.
They call it a tear, and theycouldn't know, it feels like a
long time, but they literallypull, he described it as a
little balloon and they pull itthrough to tear something to

(42:31):
keep a hole open.
So that was another risk factorbecause you're not relying on
something that's being put intothat.
That's actually a person doingthis, right?
Yeah, to your baby's body.
That was a bit scary, butthankfully, yeah, I'd say a bit
scary.
Gosh, it was all bloody scary.

SPEAKER_00 (42:50):
Thankfully, yeah, that all went well.
Good.
Yeah, and sorry, I'm thinkingback.

SPEAKER_02 (42:56):
So this was those that was that both right away,
or that was about 20 days old,so we had to get over the neck
first.
Got it.
Um they were never going to doanything to him when he had
neck.
Yeah, and it was a day-by-daysituation.
A lot of babies do pass awayfrom having neck, so it was very
much day by day, as I said, verythankful they caught it quickly

(43:18):
because it does go downhill veryquickly, that condition.
So you're about 20, 20 days old,if I remember maybe 21 days old,
if I remember correctly.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (43:28):
Goodness.
And then did he go on to havebecause they were guessing about
three surgeries, then did hehave two more after that?
And you said, was it five monthstotal in the hospital?

SPEAKER_02 (43:38):
Yeah.
So his first one was must havebeen end of September, early
November, and his open heart wasin January.
Gosh, I should have writtenthis.
Oh my gosh, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 (43:50):
It's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (43:52):
It was in January.
Um, we were very much in and outof hospital throughout that
whole time because he keptgetting sick.

SPEAKER_00 (43:58):
Um, so he was like sent home from the NICU and
would come back for surgery as aor was he in the hospital that
whole time?

SPEAKER_02 (44:05):
We came out Christmas Eve.

SPEAKER_00 (44:06):
Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 (44:07):
Oh, he was allowed a day pass for Christmas Day, and
then I think we're back in therefor two nights, and he then was
allowed out.
Gosh, I need to write down mytimeline, don't I?

SPEAKER_00 (44:19):
No, that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 (44:20):
I was just curious because November he was a he was
out for two weeks, but I wentthrough a very traumatic
circumstance within that time.
And of course, as mothers, Icompletely blame myself that he
uh got sick.
Um, so he's with home for twoweeks, and then he was back in,

(44:41):
and he was pretty much back in.
He might have had that littletime around that week, around
Christmas, and then it was backin until February.

SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
Okay.
Wow.
Yeah, that's a long time.
I'm guessing I'm thinking,especially you mentioned the mom
guilt again, which is so real,and we always do this to
ourselves.
So many moms also just feelguilty for not holding
everything together perfectly,especially when there's a child
that needs all this extra careand there's so much going on.
And not to mention yourpostpartum yourself.

(45:10):
I totally ignored that factafter having my son because
since he was in the NICU, it wasall about him.
And I somehow forgot that I justhad a baby.
There's a lot going on.
What would you say to a motherwho's might be in that space
right now where they're feelingthis guilt, they're trying to
hold it together after goingthrough what you went through in
that time frame?

(45:31):
What would you say to anothermom who's in that space of
feeling guilty for not doing itall?

SPEAKER_02 (45:37):
That's a good question.
I think it's about coming hometo yourself, to be honest with
you.
And I know that sounds a bitcliche.
We all feel guilt.
And I'm not saying that thatmakes you a good mom or a bad
mom, but all of us feel thatguilt, and often it can be

(45:57):
connected to your value system,I think, as well.
So making sure that you arefeeding your value system.
A lot of us think thatmotherhood and being mom is the
top of our value system, but itmight not be.
It might be creativity, it mightbe health, it might be so.
I think during that time, if youcan feed into those somehow or

(46:17):
another, or for me, that's how Ifelt less guilt.
I think it's also a level ofacceptance.
I know that sounds reallybaseline, but it's just that's
great advice.

SPEAKER_00 (46:29):
And even if it sounds baseline now, when you're
in it, you're not thinking thatway, right?
It's it's important to rememberthose things.
You're one person and you can'tdo it all.
And yeah, we're all gonna haveguilt.
That doesn't mean that you're agood mom or bad mom.
It's just part of life, andsometimes it can be a lot to
carry.
Yeah, giving yourself grace isimportant for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (46:48):
That's right, but giving yourself grace is is it,
yeah, that you are human too,and you're going through a human
experience, especially in NICUand and that setting.
I've spoken to, and I'm sure youhave as well, a lot of women
where the baby is very much heldand and everyone's concerned
about the baby, but you're kindof forgotten about.

(47:09):
But if I may, the advice that Igive you if you are walking into
that situation and you don'thave lots of support around you,
is try to set up your supportsystems before whether that's a
food delivery and any for theother children, if your family
can come.
I know that's not alwayspossible, especially this day
and age where our parents areand aunties and never understood
working or whatnot.

(47:30):
But that those little supports,whatever you can have in place,
I would, I believe it should allbe a part of our healthcare
system.

SPEAKER_00 (47:39):
I agree.
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm gonna absolutely and that'sreal that's really great advice.
And especially it's hard.
You had three other childrentoo.
I mean, there is a lot going on.
How are you feeling withbalancing all of that?
Your other kids, how did theytake it?
I mean, that's a busy, stressfultime, and I don't know for sure,
I'll ask, but I'm I imagine itwasn't just he had these

(48:02):
surgeries, he came home and ohmy gosh, now every chapter
closed.
That's not how it works,obviously.
You just mentioned he had afollow-up visit.
There's always things that aregonna come up with every kid,
right?
How did you manage all of themoving parts of four children
and one with needs that aretaking up a lot of your time?

SPEAKER_02 (48:21):
I really don't know how I managed.
I think we've grown so muchexternal stuff that I'm very
there wasn't a question of Ican't do this.
And there were, don't get mewrong, there were many days that
I woke up and honestly didn'twant to be here anymore.
Many, many days, especiallygoing through that traumatic
event in November.
I just yeah, I didn't want tocontinue.

(48:44):
I wasn't excited for the nextday.
I was, yeah, yeah, I'd neverknown survival mode like this
before.
Yeah, but I had no other optionbecause one thing, I didn't, we
don't have much support where welive.
I'm not around my family.
Very grateful for my mum beingaround us for so much in those
early months.
I think she spent about threemonths in total up here, but she

(49:07):
doesn't live here, but she wasvery much our core support.
She was able to help with theolder kids going back and forth
and to school, and she very muchupheld that kind of a routine.
I think we found a routineeventually.
What happened in November meantthat Trent did a lot of the

(49:27):
overnights with Odin.
That did kind of strip me, isthe way I see it.
Stripped me of that experienceof being with him overnight.
But in our family circumstance,he at the time wasn't able to be
at home with the older children,the different farmers.
So moving through that as well.
So yeah, mum was mum was here touh support us.

(49:48):
It was really hard.
To be honest with you, it wasreally fucking hard.
We were also rebuildingbusinesses.
I was my soul was just yearningto relaunch Baba Cloud, but I
knew it wasn't the right time.
And I hadn't worked for whatfelt so long for my creativity,

(50:09):
that is hard.
Yeah, but for finances, that isnot fun.
A balance I couldn't afford inany.
I and I give the advice ofsurround yourself with the the
meal deliveries and all of this.
But for me, that wasn't mysituation with this birth.
I don't know why I look at it.
Gosh, couldn't have been theother one where I had resources

(50:29):
to make life.

SPEAKER_00 (50:30):
Yeah, life is fun.

SPEAKER_02 (50:32):
Yeah, I would be thankful when someone would send
a meal, but I definitely didn'thave the resources to support
myself through these, but it wasuh I had to get up and keep
going.
Like there was yeah, otherwisemy kids wouldn't have survived,
not survived, but yeah, thetransition was hard.

(50:52):
They started new schools.
I don't know, it was to survivalmode.
We say, Yeah.
I kudo myself for having theirlife set up, their sports were
set up, their activities wereset up, their school was set up,
everything I tried to emulatewhat they had at our old place.
It was the smoothest transitionI could possibly make for the

(51:14):
other children.
Now, Bobby May, she was too, shedidn't really understand, but
the older kids absolutelyunderstood what was going on.

SPEAKER_00 (51:23):
That's really amazing that you did that.
It's important for them.
Just as moms, we try and keepsome normalcy and routine for
them because that's what's bestand that's what they know.
But that's hard to do.
And you should give yourselfkudos because keeping it
together for yourself and yourbaby and the rest of the kids
and trying to make the bestchoices for everyone is no easy
feat.
It's a lot.

(51:43):
Um, and you should be proud ofyourself.
That is a lot.
Can you even believe it's beenover a year now?

SPEAKER_02 (51:49):
No, and I keep reflecting and getting the
memories up on my phone.
And I've actually spoken to mypsychologist about this because
once his first birthday hit, Ifelt this new wave of grief.
I it was just I haven't reallydived into it as much as I need
to yet.
But I definitely felt theburnout, the crash has started

(52:12):
to come.
I might have just caught myselfbecause I saw the signs of the
burnout.

SPEAKER_00 (52:18):
Regardless of the situation, the first birthday is
always such a big moment ofreflection in general.
And I felt it with every singleone of my kids.
But yeah, it does hit differentwhen you've gone through
something like that.
And with my son who was in theNICU, we mentioned yes, his
first birthday came.
He was still trying to catch upto his age.
He was three months behind,doing things three months
younger than his actual age.
There were so many therapies,physical therapy, speech

(52:40):
therapy, follow-ups, all thethings that follow a NICU stay
and surgeries and justeverything related to his
health.
It is that moment that hit extrahard, I think, at that first
birthday.
You stop and take a look at whatjust happened in the last year,
and you're like, Whoa, yeah, theburnout is real, and you don't
even realize because you're justgoing, going, going, and you're
doing everything you can forthem.

(53:01):
And it's just it's a big moment,I think.
That first birthday and lookingback, and it's that's awesome
that you have a psychologistthat you talk to.
I eventually started talking tosomeone a few years later.
It's kind of smacks you in theface sometimes when you're like,
Whoa, that was that was verytraumatic.
I've been in survival mode forlonger than I can imagine.
I don't even realize I was, butI'm feeling it now.
And at a time where you shouldbe like, I don't know, like so

(53:24):
happy and proud, and like, wow,they're one.
I felt all the emotions.
I felt guilt.
I felt, wow, he's been throughso much and he's only one.
I felt like I've lived 10 livesin the last year.
I'm actually happy you sharedthat because I think it's so
important for anyone in asimilar situation to like check
in with someone, a therapist, afriend with yourself.
It'll sneak up on you.

SPEAKER_02 (53:44):
Definitely.
And you might not feel better,you probably won't feel better
in the moment.
I think for me, I realized I hadthe psychologist and I stuck to
it and I tried to seek out, youknow, the social workers and
those opportunities in thehospital because I I came to a
place in my head where I wasactually, and it was not a nice
feeling at all.

(54:05):
No one can no one can help me.
It was very helplessness and andall the external circumstances
that were going on.
No one uh can help me.
That was hard, and that's whathad me, you know, really
questioning my existence.
If no, if no one can help me,then what the fuck's the point
getting here?

SPEAKER_00 (54:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (54:24):
We talk about seeking help and we talk about
talking to a friend and all ofthis stuff.
Well, if if no one can actuallychange my circumstance or the
external things that are goingon, then what's the fucking
point?
And that was probably one of thehardest thought processes that I
had to get to through.

SPEAKER_00 (54:45):
Yeah, it's it's relatable, it's hard to share
and it's hard to hear.
It's relatable, and I'mguaranteed there are listeners
that know exactly what you'retalking about right now, where
you're like, that's great.
I can go talk to somebody, but Ihave this, this, and this.
And how is anyone?
They're not gonna take it off myplate, they're not gonna do this
for me.
What is the point?
What's going on?
And it's a hard place to sit inand realize that that's where

(55:07):
you're at and that's how you'refeeling, but it is real.
I've felt that way too.
Where you get up the next dayand I'm just like, I don't, I
don't know how I'm gonna keepdoing all this.
It's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 (55:18):
This is not a vibe.

SPEAKER_00 (55:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (55:22):
Yeah, and it took time.
And if someone is listening thatfeels that way, it took time,
and it's so hard when you're inthat frame of mind to one, give
yourself grace, but also toremind yourself as pleached as
it is that it is just the seasonand you will get through it.
And I really dislike people whowould say that to me through

(55:44):
that through that time.

SPEAKER_00 (55:46):
Yeah, it's not something you want to hear when
you're in it.

SPEAKER_02 (55:49):
No, you're actually not helping me right now.
Like, if you can wash thefucking dishes and put no thing
on, that's what you can do tohelp.

SPEAKER_00 (55:55):
That that's helpful.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (55:58):
Telling me that it'll all be okay because right
now it feels fucking out ofhand.

SPEAKER_00 (56:02):
Yeah.
Honestly, one of the things thatI remember, like I appreciated
hearing sometimes, whether itwas with my son and and
everything with the NICU andeverything that followed, or
like our losses.
I just liked when people arelike, you know what, this sucks.
It sucks.
I didn't want to hear that it'llbe fine, or you'll be why don't
we just sometimes you just gottaadmit that this is terrible.
It's terrible.
And yeah, let's just sit in thatfor a second.

SPEAKER_02 (56:24):
Yes, uh a hundred and ten percent.
I was always so thankful topeople for the people that were
wow, mate, you're so strong.
And you've been through theworks, but once I hit this first
birthday, right milestone ofreflection, I was like, I not I
wouldn't say this to to topeople who say it because I know
it comes from a good place, butI'm like, I don't actually want

(56:45):
to be the strong one anymore.
I'm really tired.
Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (56:49):
I remember when people would say that, wow,
you're the strongest mom I know,you're so strong.
And I just remember beingannoyed too, because I remember
thinking, I don't really think Ihad a choice.
I don't, I'm not patting myselfon the back because I'm so
strong, I just don't think therewas any other way to be because
I have to, and I don't know howmuch you know, how long can I do
that?

SPEAKER_02 (57:06):
Exactly.
And a lot of my support systemcame from social media, so I
always questioned sharingoversharing and sharing too much
of his journey and whatnot onsocial media.
But boy, did they save me daily.
I didn't have the people who Ithought would show up for us

(57:28):
show up, and that was a grievingprocess in itself.
I definitely grieved my dadthroughout that year.
I've let him die, but to I lethim go.
Yeah, that I think that one'sjust the core that that grief
process it's it's that balancebetween acceptance that people
have for their own lives, and Ifeel I was probably too

(57:50):
accepting of that.
Yeah, there was minimalaccountability, and I I didn't
really have I didn't also didn'thave the space to be able to go
through any of those kinds ofconversations.
But if you if your friend oryour sister is going through an
ICU process, that text messageevery second day to let them

(58:11):
know they're loved, and thatmeal drop off, uh being in a
different state and things thatisn't really an excuse anymore
when there's so many optionsavailable to us.
Yep, that matters so much.
That's leading from that kind,empathetic space.
And I think, yeah, for me, thatexperience made me realize some
people don't have that space,some people don't have that

(58:32):
depth.
And I don't try and say that ina mean way, but if we can raise
awareness around that you couldliterally be saving someone's
life, let's be real, yeah, uh,by leading with kindness, like
it's so impactful.
And the more I really believethe more we hold women, whether
it's through birth, postpartum,etc., the better our world will

(58:54):
be and the more in tune ourchildren will be.

SPEAKER_00 (58:57):
I completely agree.
And it's it's hard and it's sadthat it it often takes a
situation like this where youare realizing there will be a
shift in the relationships inyour life.
I felt it with our miscarriages,with when our daughter was
stillborn with my son and theNICU.
I mean, we had there were somany people that I thought would
be there that weren't.

(59:18):
They were the ones that alwaysshowed up.
We knew they would.
And then there were friends whoreally stepped up, even though
they didn't know how, but atext, a meal job, like no one
knows what to do.
And I've experienced this somany times where no one really
knows until if you're in thatsituation yourself.
In hindsight, I'm like, now thatI've been through grief and

(59:38):
trauma and things, and I thinkof other people in my life, and
I'm like, I should have donemore.
I didn't know what to do forthem.
And I think the biggest thing iswhat you said.
You don't have to overthink it.
Send the text, send the meal,whatever it is, it truly can
have such a big impact, and notto be dramatic, but like could
save somebody's life whenspreading that to everybody,
regardless of what they're goingthrough, and especially holding
moms in the postpartum and andAll of that.

(01:00:00):
There's so much going on for awoman during all of that,
whether you have extracircumstances or not, it's a
lot.
And it would make such a bigdifference to women everywhere
if we just really keep that inmind and remember how little
things will go such a long way.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:16):
Yeah, I totally agree.
And I don't want to be morbid,but it's a very real scenario.
When, if I may, when peoplechoose to leave the world,
people come around them and talkabout if they had to just reach
out for help, if they had justgone to the psychologist, if

(01:00:36):
they had just told me what wasgoing on, if they had just told
me they needed a six-week sleepin whatever it is, we could have
helped.

(01:01:00):
So like can you fucking show up?
Like I'm struggling.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:07):
And anyone who is struggling in any kind of way,
but even to that degree, theycould have would have they
they're struggling.
You can't ask for what you don'tknow you need, but you just need
something, but you don't knowwhat's going to help.
You just never know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:22):
Yeah, like why aren't those people, or you if
you're one of those people,showing up before?
Where's that support systembefore?
And that's what I talk aboutwith holding the mother.
I think if that is there beforeany of that, we potentially may
see less mum rage.
And don't we want the women andthe mothers in our lives to be
we're not gonna be old all thetime, but less pressure, more

(01:01:43):
joyous?

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:44):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:45):
Not burnt out in a very big topic.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:48):
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, yes, I completelyagree.
One of the things I was justgonna ask you was how has you
answered this in a roundaboutway, but how has this whole
experience changed the way yousee motherhood or even yourself
as a woman?
You know, now that you've beenthrough this and you've been at
really low points and you'vebeen so burnt out and you've
managed so many things.
I mean, how do you see yourselfnow?

(01:02:09):
How has this experience changedmotherhood for you?

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:11):
It's profound.
That year was profound, to behonest with you.
It's what happened with Odin,and then what I call the
traumatic event, which involvedmy two older children at the end
of the year.
I think I would never ever wishwhat happened in November with
my older children on anothermother, and I wish that it

(01:02:34):
didn't take such a traumaticevent for me to understand what
a good mum I was.
And I can very confidently saythat I'm a good mum.
Yes, I fuck up, that I'm notperfect, absolutely.
Yeah, but it took all of thatfor me to know that I'm a good
mum.
That's wild.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:54):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:55):
And I want there to be something out there that
helps women and mothersunderstand that before they have
to go through, and I I know theuniverse delivers you these
lessons, and you know, there wecan be blessings and gratitude
and all of that, but God, youneed to go through something
fucking horrendous.
Yeah, yeah.
Did that answer your question?

(01:03:15):
Because I've totally forgottenwhat your question was.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:18):
Yeah, I was just asking.
I mean, this change this thewhole experience is so much, and
I was just curious how itchanged, you know, how you view
yourself and even motherhood.
And yeah, that absolutely makessense.
It's profound, it's a lot.
It does, you know, sometimesthose horrific moments in life
that really unfortunately makeyou see like, wow, I'm a great
mom, or I should do thisdifferently, or I want to help

(01:03:41):
other people because no oneshould have to go through that,
or no one should feel this way.
Totally different situation, butI understand where you're coming
from.
You know, it took me a decade ofall sorts of different things
with infertility and loss andjust things with the kids to
finally be like, oh my gosh, Ihave all this built up knowledge
that I didn't want, but I haveexperiences and I need to put it

(01:04:03):
to good use and I want to helpother people.
And for me, that's not thepodcast started.
Life is wild and it takes you inall different directions.
And now there's new things.
I've been doing the podcast forthree years, and now there's new
challenges in motherhood thatwe're dealing with.
And as everybody does, uh withevery season comes something new
to learn and tackle.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:20):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:21):
But speaking of that, when doing and putting
energy into other things in ourlife before we go on to touch on
a couple other things, I want totalk about Bubba Cloud.
And I'd love to know how didthis brand come to life?
What inspired you to make thisbeautiful baby care line?
Tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:39):
So I actually purchased the business of a Gold
Coast mum back in 2022, and itwas created from the idea of
Bubba Cloud was she was puttingher baby onto a big pillow each
morning, or her husband was, andshe hand stitched the Bubba
Clouds.
She made them for her friendsand it evolved from there.

(01:05:03):
When I moved into my thirdpregnancy, this was probably the
first pregnancy that was able tonot splurge, but I was able to
buy something that was nice.
Small business is reallyimportant to me and supporting
mother-led businesses.
Now, of course, there are someother baby lounges out there,
but I found Bubble Cloud and Iconnected to the fact that it

(01:05:24):
was on the Gold Coast, it was amother-led business, it was
linen, they used organic cotton,all the boxes, and I was excited
to just purchase something.
You know, I know my sister waslike, You don't need one of
those.
And I was like, But I reallywant one.
And now looking back at both mythird child and Odin, I've used

(01:05:44):
it so so so much.
Or it was the bench, the yeah,the land.
It was the beach, the park, it'sthe hospital.
It was used in the hospitalquite often.
It was actually the only waythat I could co-sleep with Odin.
I used to put him in the BubbaCloud next to me on the hospital

(01:06:05):
bed and very uncomfortably laidon my side.
And that was how I could cuddlehim without him being on me.
Yeah, I can't.
I can picture it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:14):
That's perfect for that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:15):
The Bubba Cloud.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:16):
Sounds like the stars aligned for that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:19):
Yes, and purchased it, and then was it six months
later?
I was looking to get into thee-commerce space and very new to
it, very naive.
I've worked in digital marketingfor a while.
So I thought, let's do this,let's move into that space.
A baby business came up.
I had a baby, it felt amazing.
And um, it turns out it was BopCloud.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:41):
I love that.
That's awesome.
And you're also the host of theModern Mother podcast.
What is it that sparked thatproject?
And then what kind ofconversations are you having on
there or hoping to open up forother moms on that show?

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:55):
Yeah, cool.
I feel like our podcasts arequite aligned in that area.
What sparked the modern motherpod is that I wanted it to be
the sister brand of Bubba Cloud.
We have such a beautifulproduct, and I call it cradling
the baby, holding the mother.
I needed that hold the motherelement.

(01:07:15):
I needed a bigger, and I wantedmy vision for Bubba Cloud is to
have a bigger voice around whatit is to hold the mother and the
way that we did it.
I didn't want to be just anotherbaby brand that sold product or
that bought, you know, bulkproduct product off Alibaba and
and and sold it for triple theprice.
I want to make sure that we area baby brand who truly has a

(01:07:39):
vision, mission, and purpose andcares.
And I don't know if I'm doingthe right thing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:45):
Like, like none of us know we're ever doing the
right thing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:50):
I just don't know.
And the truth, like, to becompletely real and real with
you, the truth is to get BubbaCloud to the next stage and to
build the products that I havelined up that I want to build, I
have to generate more income.
And I'm I'm really nowcomfortable saying that.

(01:08:10):
Now that I am giving back in theway through the podcast, it just
must be a sole alignmentsituation.
Now I feel obviously there'sbusiness elements, and we only
have one screw, so that makesgenerating income more tricky.
There is building business andproduct that way, of course.
But yeah, it's really the heartand soul to Bubble Cloud.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:32):
It feels like such a good fit, just given your your
mission behind Bubble Cloud andjust wanting it to be more than
just a product.
And a podcast is that's exactlywhat it is.
I love when businesses can takethat extra step and really wrap
it all into one becausepodcasts, it's such a great
space to feel connected tosomebody all over the world,
right?
And get to know them for whothey are and their mission and

(01:08:53):
sort these conversations.
And I know for myself, when I'mlistening to podcasts and
they've got a sister podcast toa brand or something, I
automatically love the brandbecause you just feel you are a
part of it and talking about it.
And that's that's awesome.
It feels such a perfect fit foryour business and and
everything.
That's amazing.
And when did you when did youstart the podcast?
How long have you been doingthat?

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:13):
I started designing two years ago.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:17):
Relatable, trust me.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:19):
I did post the other day that I did more in two weeks
than I did in all of those twoyears, and given I was going
through many life events andwhatnot.
So that's that's fine.
Thought I was ready back then,but maybe I wasn't.
Right now, it just feels reallyaligned.
Building it and rebuilding BubbaCloud is what keeps my mental

(01:09:39):
health in check, to be honestwith you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:41):
Yeah, I was gonna ask if you feel like it's really
therapeutic for you, because Iknow for me, I set out to what
started the podcast three yearsago in hopes to help other
people.
But what I didn't realize isonce I started talking and
having conversations with otherpeople, this is exactly what I
needed.
And I may have just created myown therapy because I love this.
I love sharing and opening upabout not just my story, but

(01:10:02):
hearing other people's insightsand makes you feel not alone.
Podcasting is really personal,and so I feel like you'll know
when it's a good time to start.
I did the same thing.
I I had everything, my cover artdesigned, and I had a plan and I
had this, and it was yearsbefore I actually hit record.
And once I did, I just keptgoing because it just feels like
a good time.
And I think you know when it is.

(01:10:22):
I'm happy to hear that that'saligning for you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:25):
Yeah, absolutely.
It is a connection point, Iwould say.
Yeah, for me, yeah.
There's not much opportunity togo out and go out for lunch.
A lot of my friends are inSydney, that doesn't really work
for me.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:35):
Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:37):
Yeah, that connection point that I'm
probably missing.
You're right, does yeah in turngive back to you.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:44):
Where can listeners find you online, connect with
you, the podcast, Bubba Cloud?
What's the best way to connectwith you?

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:51):
Probably on Instagram, I would say.
Okay.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:53):
Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:53):
Instagram, yeah.
Instagram's Bubba Cloud, justBubba Cloud.
I'm underscore Kath Hansen, andthe Model Mother Pod is the
Model Mother Pod.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:02):
Perfect.
Yeah, and I'll link it all inthe show notes to make it easy
for everyone to connect with youthere.
Thank you so much, Kath, forsharing so openly today.
I know it is hard to relive someof these hardest moments.
I really appreciate it, and Iknow that it's going to give
hope to other women listeningand resonate with our audience.
I appreciate you sharing yourstory.

(01:11:23):
Such a beautiful reminder thateven in our hardest seasons,
connection and courage can carryus through.
Even when we're at rock bottom,there's always a way.
Thank you for being vulnerableand for sharing.
I really appreciate you being onthe show.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:37):
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:39):
What an incredible conversation with Kath.
I hope her honesty and strengthreminded you that even when
motherhood feels heavy, there'salways hope, healing, and
connection waiting on the otherside.
If you loved today's episode,make sure to check out Kath's
podcast, Modern Mother, and herbeautiful baby care brand, Bubba
Cloud.
All those links are in the shownotes.

(01:12:00):
And if you're ready to surroundyourself with a community of
women who understand the ups anddowns of fertility, pregnancy,
motherhood after loss, andeverything in between, I'd love
for you to join us inside yourfertility village.
It's a space to feel supported,seen, and encouraged exactly
when you need it most.
You can learn more and become afounding member through the link
in the show notes.

(01:12:20):
And be sure to follow along onInstagram at motherhood
underscore intended.
That's where I will be sharingeverything podcast related and
everything related to yourfertility village.
So if you ever forget to go backto the show notes or forget the
link, just hop on over toInstagram.
You'll find everything there.
Until next time, remember,you're doing better than you

(01:12:41):
think, and you were never meantto do this alone.
Bye for now.