083 – Sunrise Park Resort: Arizona's Only Lift-Assisted Bike Park with Builder Colby Landin - Mountain Cog

Episode Transcript
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Josh (00:12):
hey dane, yeah, uh.
After an unsuccessful harvest,why did the farmer decide to try
a career in music?

Dane (00:24):
Man, I wish I was smart enough to know these.
Like I should be able to getthis.

Josh (00:30):
It's because he had a ton of sick beats.

Dane (00:33):
Oh God, I would have never gotten that.
It's not good.
I didn't even know beats camefrom farms, I thought they just
appeared Appeared.

Josh (00:39):
Yeah.
No All right, we're up herejust outside of Show, low
Arizona, yep, kind of northeastpart of, was it northeast?

Dane (00:49):
Yeah.

Josh (00:50):
Yep Kind of northeast part of Arizona, at Sunrise Ski Park
Resort Park.

Dane (00:56):
Resort, but it's Park Resort yeah.

Josh (00:57):
And they've been building out a ton of shit and some great
mountain bike trails and wehappen to have with us today Mr
Colby.
You want to introduce yourself,man?

Colby Landin (01:06):
Hey, I'm Colby Landon, Mostly a backyard kind
of track builder, but the lastthree summers I've been up at
Sunrise building lots of jumpsand big turns.
So, they got me up here with mytractor and we've just been
going to town.

Josh (01:23):
What's the tractor that you use?
I?

have a Kubota sk to town.
What's the tractor that you use?
I have a Kubota skid steer.
It's the midsize one with widetracks and an extra wide bucket.

Josh (01:33):
Wow, okay.
So how wide is it?
Is it like six foot?
Seven foot, seven foot.

Dane (01:38):
What's a skid steer?
Is that because it has trackson it, or is it that, like the
bobcat looking one, it's thestyle of tractor.

So there's excavators, backhoes and skid
steers for that size equipmentand they look like those Bobcats
.
Yeah, it's a Bobcat with tracks.

Dane (01:51):
Okay, cool, awesome, can I drive it?

Yeah, you can drive it.
I want to drive it so bad.
Yeah, man, it's sitting rightover there, I just want to do it
.
Can I do a donut with it?
Can you do?

Josh (02:02):
donuts in that, oh yeah, oh, my God, we're getting in
deep shit now.
I want one right now.
Careful, though.

Dane (02:07):
Yeah, so you are building most of the bigger jump features
.

Yeah, is that about right?
Yeah, we got another crew uphere, the Tonto Gravity Riders.

Dane (02:18):
That's Chris, and James.

Josh (02:19):
I'm sure we'll talk about them, them a bit.
Yeah, we ran into them down inmount graham.

When we were working down on mount graham,
those guys were down therethey're essential part of this
um building process, along with,uh, brian zonker, the main bike
park manager here, and he's gota couple other ski patrol kids
that kind of help him out andhe's the main guy cutting most
of the hand cut trails.
And then chris and james havebeen up here for 20 plus years

(02:44):
helping on trails and stuff, soI'm the newbie.
But, um, they, uh, they got aexcavator, which is, you know
the one like a little claw infront of you that scoops in
front of you and push it off tothe side or build with it Um
skid steer is like a typicalBobcat, which I'm sure every
mountain biker knows what thatis oh yeah, that's what you

(03:05):
build a backyard with.

Dane (03:06):
Yeah.

Josh (03:06):
I've rented one several times Totally different.

His is great.
They're fantastic at going downand cutting an awesome trail
and they know what they're doing.
And then I was hired to buildSlalom Course and then a couple
jump lines and this Skills Parkkind of jump park thing that is
going to keep expanding which ishuge.

Dane (03:27):
Yeah, it's big, it's big, it's.

I don't think people know about it because, uh
, from the parking lot you cansee kind of like just one, one
run and there's actually a kindof five runs side by side yeah
up to five or six runs, actuallysix different lips, so yeah,
it's pretty awesome.

Dane (03:43):
We did ride it that one day that it was we got rained
out, yeah, and it's.
It's hard for me to get speedto hit those jumps.
I'm not a good jumper.
And uh, man, it's so well built, like the lips were just
manicured, like it was justgreat.

In fact.

Dane (03:57):
Uh, so you built a new line.
What do you call the new lineunder the lift?

Oh yeah, we don't even have a name for that.

Dane (04:07):
Oh, can you name?
It can you call it dame.
How about, dane?

Josh (04:08):
let's wait no, let's come up with a name.
How about dane sucks?
How about?
No?
I was thinking.
I was thinking like dane'staint call it dane's taint, oh
my god, I'll have to have thetribe approve it.

Yeah, I don't think they're gonna approve
dane's taint, come on, just pushfor me.
Try, I'm going to adjust yourmic a little bit.
I'm sorry about that.

Josh (04:26):
No, no, you're all good, it's dropping on you.

Dane (04:29):
I did not hit those, even from the chair.
The gaps looked big and I saw aguy hit them and it didn't look
like he needed a lot of speed.

Josh (04:38):
Oh, that's the new one, the new line.

Yeah, they got gaps, really long lips and
takeoffs.

Dane (04:44):
They look like floaters.
They totally look like floaters, they're definitely floaters.

I haven't seen anyone crash on it yet, so
that's good.

Josh (04:50):
It's cool being under the lift too, because you can see
the shredders come down and justcrush it.

I think that made the park a lot more fun having
people hoot and holler.

Dane (04:58):
Yes, big time yeah that, and there was a bear today.
Did you see a bear?

Josh (05:03):
Yeah, there was a bear right by that.
You know, as you're going upthe lift, there's a little lodge
right there.

Dane (05:07):
Yeah, a little black bear in there.

No way.
Oh, that's awesome, I missedthat Is that a common thing here
?
Oh, for me it is.
I've been living up here, soeverybody leaves around 5, which
is about right now.
And then the animals really dotake over the park up here,
that's cool.
It is cool because as soon asthe lift stops, I mean I think

(05:28):
they know that when the liftstops, or maybe they're on a
schedule or whatnot?

Josh (05:32):
The people are gone yeah.

The turkeys take over, then the deer and elk.

Dane (05:37):
Oh yeah, we saw a ton of turkeys.
Yeah, anyways, I've seen abunch of bears.
You've seen a bunch of bears.
I've seen a bunch of bears.
Yeah, you've seen a bunch ofbears.
Don't tell my wife that,because she won't want to come
out, never when the park'srunning.

You got lucky.

Josh (05:50):
Hey, so how'd you get started?
Tell us a little bit about yourbackstory.
How'd you get started doingthis?

Specifically the mountain bike stuff yeah yeah,
yeah, or just building trail ingeneral or building features or
building parks in general.
So this is my first ski resortI've worked at and that's been a
dream of mine since I waslittle.
I started building bike tracks,bmx, specifically in the
neighborhood.
I had one at my house when Iturned eight and it was basic

(06:16):
and as neighbors built pools, Icollected more dirt and built
bigger stuff and my dad had alittle Bobcat.

Josh (06:22):
That's awesome.

So, I was always keeping an eye out for pools
getting built.

Josh (06:28):
Yeah.

And then I got phone numbers.

Josh (06:29):
So you're just building like BMX jump, basically yeah.

BMX track like a pump track and I've had all
different styles and stuff and alot of them didn't work out
that well.

Josh (06:40):
That's how you learn right yeah.

So eventually I got hired for my first track
build when I was 12.
Seriously yeah, and then Iprobably got hired for two or
three that year in theneighborhood and then it was
kind of crazy my wholeneighborhood had a bunch of good
expert level BMXers after a fewyears.

Dane (06:59):
Yeah, because they got a place to practice.

Josh (07:01):
Yeah, and it was really competitive.
Where did you grow up?
Where?

was it In Scottsdale.
I've shared in the one-on-oneOkay Um that's.
That's a suburb of Phoenix forwe've got listeners from all
over the world, so forinternational listeners.

Josh (07:12):
Phoenix is a is the biggest city in Arizona.

Dane (07:14):
Yep.

And one of the biggest Yep.
So we moved over to.
We had a you know basic houseon acre horse property and the
goal was to have a BMX track.
So it slowly built over theyears.
But I got hired to build onesfor the neighbors and then I
kept getting better at it.
So I got hired every year sinceI was 12 to do it.
And I had other ideas for jobs,but I just ended up coaching for
BMX racing as well as building,you know, three to five tracks
a year.

(07:48):
Now I build more like 10 tracksa year and come up here in the
summer.

Dane (07:52):
I got a good question what ?
What do you think is thebiggest difference between
building for BMXers versusmountain bikers?

BMX has to be way more dialed in and the turns got
to be a lot steeper.
It has to work a lot moreperfect.
You can have a loose corner formountain biking and people love
it, and you could have it allslippery and slidey and people
still can like it.
In BMX you can't get away withanything being off.

(08:21):
You'll definitely hear peopletalk about it.

Dane (08:24):
So it's like the radius tighter on the on the burn.

Yeah and that's the other thing is like a
mountain bike stuff I can buildvery well with the tractor
because it doesn't have to benear as vertical as a tight bmx
turn yeah and then the otherthing is to think about is with
a tractor you want to be able towork every angle of a jump, so
it helps a lot if you have space, and often when I'm working in

(08:48):
backyards next to grass orgravel or just fitting it.
It's very difficult to pack thecrap out of it from every angle
right.
So the mountain bikes overall,you can work stuff from more
angles and the dirt doesn't haveto be near as clean.
It's definitely um 50 easier,and then motocross is even 50

(09:10):
easier than that.
So I built a lot of pit bikeand suron tracks.
It's actually my main source ofbuilding income these days
right now.

Josh (09:19):
Now the surons are getting serious man, those guys do big
stuff my next three builds aresuron tracks yeah, so you
literally just started buildingthem in your neighborhood as a
kid, yep.
And then you got good at it.
You know, trial and errorscrewed some up, figured it out,
got better.
Dad had a Bobcat and then youjust fell into it, man.

I guess so yeah.

Dane (09:37):
Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
Is the dirt that you do youhave to bring that dirt in for
here at Sunrise, or can you uselocal dirt or do you have to
sift it?

Here at Sunrise, at least my.
The other guys have to usewhatever they come across on the
trail.

Dane (09:53):
Yeah.

And every part of this mountain is different, like
, I imagine, most mountains.

Dane (09:57):
Yeah, it's like cindery in one spot and loamy in another.

I think overall we have fantastic dirt, but we get
a ton of rain up here at Sunnys.
I've never been anywhere thatrains this much.
More than half the days I'mhere it rains Probably more than
three quarters, not usually aton, but in years past, my first
year here, it rained like crazy.

Dane (10:19):
A ton yeah.

It's kind of cool.

Dane (10:22):
Yeah, the trails are better, so that helps.

It helps 90% of the time, and then there's those
gnarly rains that really likedegrade, yeah you'll.
Every trail will go downseveral notches like it'll be so
good, and then it'll alldisappear.
However, this year this park'spretty new as far as all the
stuff we've been building yeahthat's why you guys are talking
to us, but uh but we got a tonof drainage work done this year.

(10:48):
That was a big plan, so it'smade a big difference in
sustainability, sustainabilityand maintenance.

Dane (10:54):
So so I so.
I've been riding here fordecades, and I'm not joking like
20 to 30 years, and I'm notkidding when I say that yeah and
some of these trails are thesame trails but eroded, and
that's what we always talk aboutwith sunrises.
It's natural terrain.
It's chunky, it's nasty.
You'll get stuck in a rut.
There'll be big rocks in therut, you know, and you just have

(11:16):
to.
You know, it's a skill leveland we trained here.
You know, back in the day andand now it's like it's.
We were talking about howfungus is the upper trail yeah,
and that used to be the easiesttrail.
They built that to be theeasiest trail.
At one point.

Josh (11:31):
That's a pretty.
We brought a bunch of kids upwith us this trip, so we got all
these like 10 and 1112-year-old ripping kids, yep,
and we took them down fungus andit was a little rough for them.

Yeah.

Dane (11:41):
Evidently Turner almost fell off the mountain.
He did rough for them, yeahyeah, evidently turner almost
fell off the mountain.
He did yeah, yeah, I didn'teven know it, I was ripping with
lacy or something, but uh, but,uh, but yeah, it's uh.
So it's crazy, because now youcan see, like sticks and stones,
that's pretty much the same,they go and work on a little bit
but slippery rock, I don't evenknow, like I won't ride that
anymore.
It's so hard, you know.
And then, uh, what was theother?

Josh (12:02):
chutes and ladders chutes and ladders, yard sale yard sale
so, since we're jumping intothe trails, why don't you, can
you tell us, just like kind of,take us through the park here
and give us a feel for?

Dane (12:11):
well, first, what's your favorite?

yeah, we'll start with that um well, um me being a
coming from a little moreexpert pro level I like chutes
and ladders.
Uh, it's, it's so fast.
I got to build up a ton ofturns on it as well as um the
bike park guy, manager brian,built up some turns with an
excavator.

Josh (12:31):
Um, so that trail is just such a high average speed yeah
and I love going fast yeah um,that's a black trail or double
black trail you know it waslabeled double black, but all
the work we've done on it, it'seasier.
It's a black now.
Yeah, it's a black.

If not, like you know, it's almost like an easy
black.

Dane (12:52):
And then there's maybe two or three sections where you got
to look at them, you know, andlike the first drop, you got to
really look at that.
Yeah, first drop in, and thenyou get into the corners, which
are awesome.
Yeah, it was really low me.

We cut in like 20 new corners at the top and it's
super loamy and we've actuallylike pushed tons more loam on
there.
I've actually the logs up there.
Some of them will just turninto mulch, like literally can
kick them and they'll just floatapart.
So we spent a while actuallyadding tons of mulch and loam

(13:20):
and cleaning it out.

Dane (13:23):
So it's super fun.
There used to be a bunch of oldpallets that they had like a.
They had made a um, like a askinny yeah skinny and had
chicken wire on for a while andthey just the the wood that they
were on just disintegrated.

Every year they got worse and worse.
It is so rainy up here there'sjust mushrooms everywhere you
look for half the summer.
So, yeah, so okay.

Josh (13:44):
So let's okay, let's talk about the trail rating.
That's one thing I want to talkabout Okay, because like we've
been.
We rode Durango this year Yep,we just came back last week in
From Angel Fire came out hereand I got to tell you like your
blues are blacks at othermountains.
Oh, we know, we know, oh, weknow.

(14:05):
I'm like all right, that's asunrise blue, yeah, yeah.
So if you come here and you red, blue.

Dane (14:09):
it's going to be a black who gets to decide that.

That's a good question.
I mean, like they are bluebased off of how gnarly
everything else is.
Yeah, but they're not a normalblue, they're relative to this
park, it's a blue, but yeah.

Dane (14:22):
Yeah.

Everything is one step gnarlier here.
For now, we're working hard ongetting some more and more
easier trails Are you going tohave like pink trails or
something, something below green.

Josh (14:32):
Well, I think there is actually a couple.

There's two lifts going here.
I don't know if you ever takenthe other lift.
We didn't take the one.
No, we didn't take the one.
No, where's the other lift?
It's on the right-hand side.

Josh (14:41):
It only goes kind of halfway up the mountain or
whatever.

Yes, it goes to Midway and there's a fantastic
new trail Chris and James Tontoguys built underneath that line.
Easy Peasy.

Josh (14:52):
Yes, we took that.
We took that with the kids,okay, and I would agree with you
.

That is a real great trail.
Yeah, it's a brand-new trail,so all I could say is I'm sure
it needs a fresh rake out.
It's first rake out ever.

Dane (15:05):
That's where Julie got a flat, perfect green.
I think that's a perfect greenfor us.
I missed that.
That's the second weekend Imissed that.

Yeah, the road gets a little too gnarly, in my
opinion, for most of the time.
But the road actually is hereat Sunrise.

Josh (15:20):
we actually have something like 30 trails, but some of
them are kind of hard to findlike we're still uh working on
our signage and our connectorsand we did run into a few trails
like oh, what the hell is this?

yeah, you hop on the map you hop on a road
anywhere out here, you're gonnafind a trail.

Dane (15:36):
Yeah, there's so many, it's really cool, like I did see
some signs, some new signssince last time we were here and
and uh, i't even know the names.
Half of them, everybody callsthe one that we finish on to
base.

To base yeah.

Dane (15:48):
And I think that's Pinedale.

Pinedale, but it says to base as you enter it.

Dane (15:54):
So, that's what all Turner and Jilly call it to base.
We're going to ride to base.

Josh (15:58):
We found one at the bottom of Yagi.
You turn left right away.
It's a blue trail, somethingidentity crisis yes identity.

Dane (16:06):
Yeah, that was a blast.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun tanto gravity riders,
they build all that stuff.

Dane (16:11):
You can pop out midway and then it'll take you to the top
of the jump line, or you knowthat.

Josh (16:16):
Oh, I saw that little turn off to the right that's what,
that is okay.

Dane (16:19):
So the jump line did you help with that jump line?

yeah, I built the whole jump yeah, they're nice
man.

Dane (16:24):
We just came from angel fire and some of the guys we
rode with at angel fire weresaying that the jumps here were
better.
Oh, wow, don't tell patrickthat yeah I still couldn't clear
the last two, so the last twoare no oh, the last one's 38
feet yeah, dude, it's long ways.

Oh wow, yeah, I have a video measuring them,
because yeah this jump line,guys.
So you know it's a unique linebecause it's in a straight line.

Dane (16:45):
Yeah.

They gave it to me and it was a wash in a straight
line with very big trees oneach side, and I had a big
project for myself.
It was how to build a base fordrainage and then-.

Josh (16:58):
That's on the left-hand side, right.
Is that what that is on theleft-hand side?
Is that the drainage?
No, underneath the jumps,Underneath right.

Dane (17:03):
Yeah.

It goes to the right and then it goes under a
bridge.
Under to the left.
There's a pipe underneath thelast set.
It's the jumps Okay.
Anyway, that jump line wasdifficult because it was so fast
going in a straight line.

Dane (17:16):
Yeah.

And I don't know if I ever rode a jump line that
was that long in a straight line.

Dane (17:20):
Yeah.

So it was really hard for me to figure out what
speed people?
Yeah, and to build jumps bigenough to match the speed, cause
there's no slowing down.

Josh (17:28):
Yeah, there's no turn, or like did you put the whoops in
the middle to help slow peopledown?
Is that part of the?

not necessarily to slow people down, but um, just
to give it some here's thereason for the rhythm section.
By the way, there's like 24peaks in this rhythm section.

Dane (17:43):
Really Lots of options.
I think I skipped over most ofthem.

There's a left line and a right line.

Dane (17:49):
Yeah.

And the left line is just, it's not really built
out yet.
The reason for the rhythm isit's so hard for me to get dirt
in there.
I have to bring a dump truck upand we've only had a little
dump truck and I get about 10scoops in my tractor, which some
of those jumps have hundreds ofscoops of dirt, and we brought
up like um, maybe 70 dump truckloads last summer wow, that's 70

(18:15):
trips.
Yeah, and then another 70 thefirst year wow and this year
only about 15 wow, okay um, andwe have to lower a couple jumps
in the beginning to, becausethey're fixing a zipline course
which goes above the jump line.

Josh (18:30):
Yeah, I saw the cables so you don't want the zipliners to
hit the jump line?
Yeah, exactly yeah.
I can see that I can't wait toget some cool videos.
Timing it, timing it perfectly,yeah.

So, anyways, the first two jumps were a little
risky for the zip liners goingabove us Like you'd hit them.
Yeah, like they hit a kick yourhead.

Dane (18:50):
Wow, oh my gosh, I want to see that.

That's awesome I mean that zip line's like 30
feet off the ground, not at thefirst jump.
No, yeah.
No, it's probably more like 20feet, but when someone big is,
on it, they'll sag a couple morefeet.

Josh (19:07):
Right.

Dane (19:13):
And you know, with them hanging down, if you hit a jump
you get 10 feet in the air.
No worries here, because I getabout two inches off the jumps.

Yeah.

Dane (19:17):
But that'd be sweet to time the zip liner with a GoPro.

Yeah.

Dane (19:22):
To follow, you know.

Yeah, so the rhythm section was like I had a
thousand feet of space, a hugeflat space in the middle of this
jump run and it was like kindof in the middle.
It's kind of the hardest to getdirt in there because I have to
drive one scoop at a time overall the jumps, messing them up,
drop one scoop and then go getmore and of course I scrape up
all I can and dig the washdeeper or base stuff.

(19:46):
But it's a it's a tough project.
So I could either build onejump and still have 900 feet and
nothing, or I could build awhole rhythm and, um, I knew I
could build something fun andit's one of those sections that
if you only have one one runleft to do, I almost say don't
do it, cause it's such a it's alittle confusing until you've

(20:07):
done it a couple of times.

Dane (20:08):
Yes, right, right, right, but it's pretty safe.

I've blitzed it before and stuff like that.

Dane (20:13):
I go through there and it's awesome.
It's like motorcycle whoops.
Yeah, you know, and I'll clearthe first couple and then I'll
just start pumping.
You know the racing stairs atthe U of A that we did.
That's the technique justpumping like crazy.
So it's pretty cool.
I like the jump line.
I'm pretty impressed.

That's going to keep getting better, so let's
talk about.

Josh (20:31):
So you've got two lifts one that goes halfway up, one
that goes all the way up.
There's two parts of thismountain too, right.

There's the main part and then there's like a
climb trail that goes up toanother area.
This is big news guys, yeah, Ihaven't written this stuff.
Um, yeah, sunrise we're gonnabe over probably doubling the
size of the park.
Um, we still gotta build outthe trails, but we're gonna open
up a the mountain above this.
So there's actually like eight,I think, lifts that work here
at sunrise yeah in the winterit's a huge park, wow.

(21:01):
So so in the sun.
So next summer we're gonna bebe opening Apache Peak.

Dane (21:06):
Nice.

And that midway lift we were talking about with
Easy Peasy.
We're going to supposedly takesome of those chairs and put
them over there on Apache Peakso we can at least have access
over there.

Dane (21:18):
Oh, that's awesome, because there's like three or
four runs over there.

Yeah, and it goes over 11,000 feet over there.
Wow, and then you yeah, westill have a lot of work to do,
but that forest and uh, mountainis a is a bit different over
there, even a little more um,lush and fern forests and stuff
very pacific northwest vibesover there lots, of so better
big mossy boulders.

(21:41):
I'd say overall a lot betterdirt.

Dane (21:43):
Yeah, that's so exciting.
Like I said, I've been cominghere for a long, long time and
we've always felt like thiscould outdo everything in the
country if you build it and theywill come.
You know what I mean, and itseems like that's working.

It seems like what you guys are doing is working.
We're far away from bigpopulations, but I see it as a
destination kind of place.
For from big populations but, I, see it as a destination kind
of place, for sure.
Yeah, like a come stay here fora weekend, or we're often open
for up until next weekend.
We've been open Wednesdaythrough Sunday.

Josh (22:13):
Yeah, and starting next weekend you guys are going to be
just the weekends, right?

Dane (22:17):
Yep, yep, yeah, and then how long?

Is it up in the air or, I think, mid-october?

Dane (22:22):
Mid-October.
Okay, yeah, probably depends onthe weather, don't?

take my word for that.
Check Sunrise Park Resortcom.
Yeah, check the website.

Josh (22:31):
All right, so are e-bikes allowed here.

Yes, okay.

Josh (22:36):
So you got a little climb trail, it'd be great for an
e-bike, if you bring a goode-bike, you can get over to the
other mountain and there's twoor three, four trails open over
there.

right now there's three trails on the other
mountain.
They're really long, they'reawesome trails, they're all
pretty straight down themountain kind of trails, and all
the trails end up on this trailcalled Loma Zona, which goes
over this really beautiful creeka few times and right now you
have to pop out and ride over ahill back to this parking lot

(23:05):
because it's a big resort.
There's two parking lots Apacheparking lot and this one, or I
guess it's Cyclone.

Dane (23:12):
Cyclone.
Is this Apache over here?

And this is Sunrise parking lot Sunrise.

Dane (23:16):
Okay, yeah, I'm pretty sure.

Anyways, you've got to ride over this big hill
if you're going to ride theother mountain right now and
there's no lift access to itcurrently.
This big hill if you're goingto ride the other mountain right
now and there's no lift accessto it currently.
So next year we'll have thatlift open and you can just do
laps on it, and then the firsttrail we're trying to build is
from there back to this parkinglot, so you don't have to ride
over a big hill on your last run.

Dane (23:38):
You can take a trail down so if you got a downhill bike or
something, yeah, you don't haveto yeahank over a quarter mile,
like it's not a big hill, butit takes 10 minutes if you're
going casual, yeah, and then yougot four or five green trails,
I think.

Yeah, I mean.
The most popular trail, withouta doubt, is Jage.
Yeah, it means antelope inApache.

Josh (24:01):
Okay.

So a lot of our names up here are Apache names
for different animals.

Josh (24:05):
Right on, because the resort is actually owned by the
Apache Indians.

Yeah, this is really cool.
It's the only resort in thecountry, or maybe the world, I
don't know.
That's Native American, ran onNative American reservation.

Josh (24:21):
Right.

There's other Native American ran park, I
guess, or parks, but this is theonly one that's on like their
own reservation and not like onforest service land or something
like that.
So what is?

Josh (24:33):
that.
So like we went up, like we'vespent a lot of time in Angel
Fire and we talk with PatrickWest he's the bike park manager
and Tucker Van Ormer.
He's like their lead.
Yeah, do you know, tucker?

I know.

Josh (24:43):
Yeah, he's great, you guys .
You guys probably get along.
Yeah, you would high five likecrazy.
He's a cool guy.
I can introduce you if you want.
But that park up in Angel Fireis private land and so if they
want to go change a trail thatday, they can just go do it,
whereas every other park in thecountry they've got to go
through years of approval withthe Forest Service.

Dane (25:04):
Is it the?

Josh (25:04):
same here, what's?
The process to get a new trailapproved or get something
changed.

It's different and interesting.
It's a tough question, honestly, as weird as that sounds.
You know, there's the bike parkmanager and he has to ask
approval for what he's buildingand then basically I'm going
along with whatever Brian thebike park manager says.
Now it's also like tribalapproval and all that, so I

(25:36):
don't deal with that.
But lately, the last few years,so I think four years ago
Sunrise got a new park manager,todd.

Josh (25:47):
Right.

And Todd is not a bike guy by any means.

Josh (25:54):
Right.

But he's him and, along with tribal leaders, have
allowed us to take on bikingmore biking stuff than in the
past.
How do I say it?
There's been people up herethat didn't want to push for
bikes in the past.

Josh (26:10):
Right.

And that changed about three years ago.
Okay, I came up changed aboutthree years ago.
Okay, um, I came up here askingfour years ago.
Um, I said, so what, what canwe build here?
Or I said what can't we buildhere, can you know, is there any
?
Or, sorry, I was like can webuild jumps, gap, jumps, wood
drops, you know what rocksections and the?
And um, there was a triballeader up here and he, he said,

(26:33):
yeah, I think we should be ableto build all that.
And I was like, really, what?
Well, what can't we build?
And he's like, I don't know, Ithink we could start building
whatever.

Josh (26:40):
And I was like well, I build jumps and tracks.
Here's my number and um.

I got a call the next summer.
So it really was a kind ofdream come true kind of job for
me to like just come up here andask questions and then have it
happen.

Dane (26:56):
Well, plus, getting out of the heat during the summer has
got to be awesome.

That's a big reason I'm up here.

Josh (27:03):
I got to tell you, like you know, just I've been
mountain biking for 20 years andI've heard about people coming
up here and I always heard thatthere's kind of backcountry,
real real rugged, real wild, youknow, and so I had really low
expectations.
This weekend is the firstweekend I've come and we get up
there and we go on this firsttrail which was jog a and I was
like, holy shit, this is awesome.

Yeah, it just reworked that.
I had nothing to do with that.
All credit to James and ChrisTonto.
Gravity riders.
They come up here usuallyFriday through Sunday and
sometimes Wednesday throughSunday, and they work pretty
much every second that they'reup here.

Dane (27:37):
Yeah, that's awesome.
The last couple weeks theyworked their butts off to kind
of redo.
Oh my God, well, shout out tothose guys, man.
Yeah, they're pretty awesome.

Josh (27:45):
We should probably get them on too.

Dane (27:47):
We should Tonto Grabby Riders.
They're doing stuff in Globetoo, yeah.

Josh (27:50):
Globe, and then I told you I saw them down at Mount Graham
.

They've been building trails for like 20 or
30 years.
I don't want to get the numberswrong.

Josh (27:58):
Yeah, for a long time, yeah, their whole life.
They know what they're doing.
Yep, if you haven't been downto Mount Graham, you should go
check it out.

Oh, they've told me about it.

Dane (28:14):
Yeah, they told me that that list place to go.

Josh (28:16):
Yeah, that should be his uh bucket list as kind of like
um, what's the moab ride the?
Oh uh, whole enchilada and it'sa.
It's one of those kind ofplaces.

It's 17 miles downhill, 6800 feet of decline,
yeah, yeah and I hear it's justa very, very unique, uh,
mountainous plants, animals allkinds of stuff, yeah, like
really unique stuff.

Dane (28:32):
Yeah, check out Mount Graham.
That's really cool.
Josh will shuttle you.

It's supposed to be like the most sheer mountain
in the state, like highestelevation drop.

Josh (28:42):
Yeah, it's big.
I mean it's a big mountain, itfeels big mountain to you?

Dane (28:45):
Yeah, we don't get too much of that here in.

Josh (28:46):
Arizona, but it's awesome, all right, you got several
black trails too, like what areyour favorite black?

Dane (28:51):
Yeah, yeah, you never and I probably interrupted you, but
uh, you never said what yourfavorite trail is.

I think I did.
I said shoots and ladders.
Oh, that's right, he did.
Did you ride that one?
I did, I did ride it.

Dane (29:06):
And he's right the corners at the bar, kind of steep, and
then you've got that skinnyplank that you have to go up and
over.

Josh (29:11):
When Dane says kind of steep, that usually means really
freaking steep.
So just for our listeners, butlike Lacey was telling me that
skinny plank freaked her out.
You know cause she doesn't, shedoesn't do skinny yeah.

Dane (29:21):
And but you go up and then it's a big, a big platform down
to the bottom, to anothercorner, then to another corner.

Kind of Angel Fire-esque trail, in my opinion.

Josh (29:31):
They've got a Chutes and Ladders trail there as well.

They do, but this one.
I haven't been there in a while, but I love that place.

Dane (29:36):
This one's Berms.
It's Chutes and Berms.

Chutes and Berms yeah.
It really is Dude, it's fast.

Josh (29:41):
Yeah, maybe you should change the name to Chutes and
Berms.

Dane (29:48):
It is a great trail to World.
Cup and then East Ridge.

That's a double black, at least East.

Dane (29:55):
Ridge drop is no joke.
You come in, there's like threelines you can hit.
And the left hand one's weird,the straight over the top is
like a double drop, so you dropand then you have to drop again
into the middle of the trail.
And then the right hand one,which is the one I do because
I'm a sissy Chunky.
Yeah, it's chunky, but I mean,for me it was no problem.

Yeah, just to carry a little speed.

Dane (30:16):
Yeah, it would slow you down on a race, though, because
I think they had a race.

Josh (30:21):
Dane's a downhill race.

The race I was here for the race and, man, it
was dry at that time, and it wasa hundred people set up there
just watching just, was that thebig mountain girl hang on?
Yeah, that's what was that yeahyeah, there was a stage down
there and it was the best spoton the mountain to sit and watch
yeah, because it's.

Dane (30:42):
You can see some carnage oh jeez people flying off the
trail.

Josh (30:46):
Yeah, I think I think that double drop is where mike adams
broke his hand that could beBecause if you do it and you
don't do, it right If there wasanywhere.

Dane (30:53):
Yeah.

Josh (30:54):
That'd be the place.
Yeah, there's lots of places,lots of places.

Dane (30:58):
So that's the crazy thing about, I think, this mountain
that I've always loved is it'ssevere.
You know it's pretty severe.

Josh (31:03):
What you guys have been doing is making it more
accessible to more people, whichI mean we had seven kind of
nine to 13 year old kids with usthat are that are.
They're good, but they're.
They're beginners.

Dane (31:15):
Yeah, they're kids and they loved it.

Josh (31:17):
I mean they were like like the lift was closing and they
were like all crying Like, oh,come on yeah.

So, um, anyways, I got hired for these jumps and
stuff and, um, I've been, I, I Idon't get to necessarily take
the lift down to hit all mystuff.
So I've been wanting to, I hadbeen wanting to finish all my
jumps so that I could go work onall these trails like chutes
and ladders, and stuff but.
I don't know if the park heredoesn't fully understand how

(31:45):
important like raking out atrail is, because these trails
are like, seriously, in myopinion, like a nine out of 10,
I've been in a lot of placeswhen they're clean but then a
few weeks later they don't gettaken care of.

Josh (31:59):
They go down to a 6 or a 5 .
So what's the process?
Who's actually maintaining thetrails?
Is it the Tonto guys?

No, I don't actually know.
They maintain their trails,jage Cartoon Forest Easy Peasy.
I'm sure I'm forgetting some.
They even help build fungus andchutes and ladders, old stuff
and yard sales.
They've helped with everything.
So, anyways, they don't helptoo much with maintenance.

(32:29):
They're more on the build crewnow.
They're trying to build stuffand rebuild stuff Same with me,
but I finished my project.
So I was trying to show thebike park manager and the ski
patrol people here help with thetrails and I'm really thankful
they do.
And I had a meeting.
I'm sure I would love to talkabout it.

(32:51):
I had a meeting with the parkmanager and bike park manager
the other day or we went todinner but I was telling them
how important raking thesetrails out are and next year we
should have a full-time guy, onefull-time guy, for trail
maintenance.
I know it's nothing special, no, it's good.

(33:11):
And then the ski patrol peoplealso help in their free time and
they just love to help out.
Sometimes our bike shop peoplecome and help out.
This whole park is ran.
Every employee, except for someof us builders, is Apache and
yeah, lately we've had kind ofmeetings about who could help.

Dane (33:35):
So a long time ago, James used to organize.

So we're trying to teach people.

Dane (33:39):
Yeah.

It's in that process.
We're in the beginning, yeah,beginning out here.

Dane (33:43):
So a long time ago when they really weren't building
stuff, they were justmaintaining.
James would organize volunteersand a lot would come up and
they would basically I think thepark would say look, we're
going to cover your lift ticket.

Yeah.

Dane (33:54):
And they would come up early for two hours and walk
down and like clean up a trail.
I built one of the drops onproject trail.
There's a log drop.
I helped build that Like I Ilove going over it Cause I go I
built that Like it was a log andand built it up and now you
drop off of it and it's little,it's not a big deal but, it's

(34:15):
still kind of fun.
I wonder if that is somethingthat would work out, or do you
have to have highly trainedpeople?

No, I think we mainly need, even like the rakes
they had, weren't the?

Dane (34:27):
right rakes I grew up landscaping.

I have an obsession with tools I got
$1,000 in rakes or more, so Iactually ordered them the right
rakes.

Josh (34:37):
What are the best rakes?
What are the best rakes to getHome Depot right?
Home Depot right.

Actually, yeah, you could get a True Temper like
just a hard metal leaf rake.
You don't want the long.
They're called tines the littlethings.

Dane (34:49):
You don't want the soft ones.

No, you want a hard metal tined rake.
Um a hard metal leaf rake.
You know, the home depot onesare about 15 to 20 bucks, if I
remember, and um, my favoriteones I get from a landscape
supply store or you can orderthem online.
I ordered a couple for them.
Up here is a corona leaf rakeokay.
Corona makes tools, all kindsof trimming tool, you know

(35:14):
landscaping tools.

Josh (35:16):
Yeah, that's good quality stuff.

But I order a Corona leaf rake.
I find it after having boughtfive different hard metal leaf
rakes.
I find that one to be thestiffest and be able to scoop
the heaviest rocks and flick therocks the furthest.

Josh (35:32):
Yeah.

I bought some other, many different brands
okay, I found ones that uh,where we're too wide, I'd get
too many rocks in my shoes oh,I'm uh raking, because you're
raking really fast, yeah, soanyways, I prefer uh corona do
you ever use the mcleods, thethe trail building tools I don't
know, I don't.
I have my own little secrettrail in Payson, but I don't do

(35:55):
a ton of trail building.
You know, I'm mostly buildingtracks all year.

Dane (35:59):
Yeah.

Big tracks with my tractor moving thousands of
tons of dirt.

Dane (36:04):
Yeah, I think if I could get a bobcat from Home Depot, I
would.

Josh (36:09):
So when you build a jump, how much of it can you do
actually with the machine andhow much do you have to do with
handwork?

Like for this whole 100% up here by machine.

Josh (36:20):
Really yeah, so you're not finishing it with.

Aside from the slalom course where there are
very steep corners, which that'sa lot of handwork, every other
jump I've built is 100% machine,wow, yeah.

Josh (36:34):
You must be like really good with that machine Well, and
the edges are so sharp andprecise on them Like it's pretty
cool I've been in a skid steersince I was seven.
Oh wow, it's been my only job,so you're like a skid steer
wizard, yeah.

Nice, I probably drove 100 different skid steers.
Wow, I drove 100 different skidsteers.

Dane (36:50):
Wow, you're making me so jealous right now.

Yeah, I did some grading work on the side, but
nowadays I tell people mostly Ijust build tracks.

Dane (37:00):
I own a bike shop and people are like when I retire I
want to work in a bike shop.
And I'm like when I retire, Iwant to get a skid steer and
just drive around.

Josh (37:08):
Yeah, just scoop up dirt, yeah.

Dane (37:11):
Seriously.

Josh (37:13):
We'll swap jobs.
So what are you most excitedabout that's coming up here.

Oh, the lift for Apache.

Josh (37:19):
So you think that'll be next year.

Yes, so that was when I had dinner with the park
manager and bike park manager,todd and Brian, three nights ago
.
Three nights ago we went out,and a big reason for these
improvements, too, we shouldmention, is this mountain
coaster we got.

Josh (37:38):
Yes.

Got a three million plus dollar mountain
coaster up here, which isactually really fun.
I rode it four or five times ina row.
One day they were wanting us totest it.

Josh (37:50):
So you were the test dummy .

Yeah, but a few days after.

Josh (37:55):
You let them try it first.

Yeah, but they built it really really well.
They went over the top to makesure it's awesome and then it is
.
You have a tough time on yourfirst run or two not hitting the
brakes.
It'll pull some Gs on you andsurprise you, I'm an adrenaline
junkie and I thought it'd belame, but it's not, so bring

(38:17):
your family up if you want.
Now there's something for thewhole family to do, which is
awesome, so you got to get theairbag jumps airbag jump.
That's what hurts the mostpeople out here.
Go ahead and hit that and thenthey have this airbag we have is
like massive.

Josh (38:33):
I mean it's 100 feet wide by 100 feet.
Yeah, it's like an R Willeyairbag.

And then you jump off the rock climbing wall, like
there's a building with therock climbing wall that's 60
feet tall and there's levels toit so you can pick however high
you want to go.
And then there's a zip linecourse which is going to be back
up and running.
It hasn't been running in fiveyears.

Josh (38:59):
We saw some people on it today.

No just the last one.

Dane (39:02):
There's a six of them, oh, six of them.
So they were only doing a short, short distance down to the
base.
It's amazing course.

Like it's to do, six zip lines and you take the
lift up and zip line course downand so it's like a real
adventure and like it'sbeautiful through the trees and
stuff.

Josh (39:21):
So what is it?
Are they going like to Midwaynow?
And then what they're doingright now?
Midway, okay, yeah.

And six.
Don't quote me on that.
I guess I was six.
I think it's still six.
They just redid a bunch of it.
Yeah, anyways, that's why I gotto cut down the jump on the
jump line.
Nando's jump line has got toget cut down the first jump
who's Nando?
Nando is a guy who's been uphere.
I don't know how many years heactually lives on.

(39:45):
This lives very, very close tohere Right over here, he's been
here like 20-plus years.
Really cool.
Native guy, Apache guy.
I talk to him for hours all thetime.

Dane (39:58):
Right.

Yeah, their culture up here is wildly,
wildly different in the way theythink and the way they
communicate and treat each other, and everything is like
visiting a different country.

Dane (40:10):
Honestly, Right, yeah, that's pretty awesome, yeah, so
it's cool to get that exposure.

Yeah, and I think that's the most misunderstood
thing about this park.

Dane (40:17):
Yeah.

As you know, it's all about them.

Josh (40:21):
This park's built for them to have you know, awesome place
to work, a source of income.

And a source of income and all that stuff and
they don't need to do themountain bike stuff.
It can actually disappear atany moment if the next park
manager is like hey, I don'tfeel like it.
It's not a normal park in thatsense, so that's tough for a lot
of people.
Everybody has their opinions.

Josh (40:43):
Right, but if they see the economics, yeah.

And that's what us white people all worry about is
economics, but it's all aboutthem having a good time and like
a good workplace, and they wantto be treated well and have,
you know, everybody else behappy.
They want everyone to be happy,so um well, we're super happy
as much as they the money isimportant.
They make sure to let you knowthat's not what they care about.

(41:09):
It's that there's a goodworkplace and a good place for
people to come have fun.

Dane (41:15):
It's cool.
You come up here for as manyyears as I have and it's the
same faces.
Like I see the same people andI got to tell you I feel a
little guilty that I don't knowtheir names but every time it's
the same people and you get tosay hi and you get to see them
and thank you and be cordial tothem and be cordial to them.
But it's not just a rotation ofrandom people, they're real
people that are up here.

Yeah and there's multiple generations of families
that have worked here and youcan't just be some white guy
coming in and having all theseopinions.
It doesn't settle well withpeople.

Josh (41:46):
You've got to be really respectful.

It's not a normal park in that sense.

Josh (41:50):
So what would you recommend as a mountain biker
when you come to this park?
Yeah, what's the attitude orvibe or what should you bring
with you to have the bestexperience and make sure that
you're being respectful of whatthey have here?

Well, first of all , bring a rain jacket if you
come here You'd be shocked.
This is very much like visitingWashington or something up here
.
I've been up here my threesummers and it rains a lot.
Anyways, just say hi to thesepeople, are?
They keep to themselves, butthey're so friendly If you

(42:27):
they're not going to go out oftheir way to.

Josh (42:31):
Strike up a conversation.

No, not really, but if you do, they will talk to
you for as long as you want.
They're very, very nice people.
So I just say you know, be veryfriendly.
And I've only had greatexperiences so well, that's
awesome, just be cool.

Josh (42:44):
That applies anywhere.
It does.

Dane (42:47):
They're a little more reserved until you say hi, and
then they're the nicest peoplein the world yeah they're not
gonna um not too bad not too badmouth angel fire, but every
time we got our bikes at angelfire we would say thank you to
the people who unload them forus and they got headphones on.
Yeah, they, they had very zero,zero personality every time

(43:08):
today that I did that.

Josh (43:09):
The guys are like hey, no problem yeah, I said, I always
say thank you very much.

There's Angel Fire .
I've had the word.
And I love Angel Fire, I'vebeen to so many bike parks and I
try to do a big.
I didn't this year, but thelast six years I did a big
mountain bike trip up California, oregon, washington, wyoming,
colorado, back around.
I went to Bentonville for threeweeks last summer or more, and

(43:37):
anyways, I still tell peopleAngel Fire is my favorite park
to ride.
I love going fast.
Yeah, and that place is justyou're in the zone.

Dane (43:45):
Yeah.

And I rode some other places like that, but
Angel Fire has the most likegood trails.

Josh (43:51):
Yeah.

But I will say it's sad to say this, but it is
what it is.
I've seen uh like one of agnarly bar fight last I was
there um, that sounds fun.
Yeah, I had horror.
I've had just bad service overand over.
If I'm going to dinner orsomething and you're like in a
nice ski resort town, it's justmy experience.

(44:13):
I know other people havedifferent experiences.
But, the attitude in the townis not the greatest.

Dane (44:19):
in my opinion it's a little more fun up here.
I gotta tell you, my wife lovesit up here much better they got
way better trails.

They're way ahead of us.

Dane (44:28):
I gotta tell you Some people love the rawness up here.
Do you think that this mountaincan take out Angel Fire if you
guys keep doing what you'redoing?

No, I mean they have Texas over there as a huge
population place A mountain oftrails.
You have two mountains we'regoing to pass up tons of parks
in the mountain of trails.
What we're allowed to build,you know, we just had a trail
open yesterday Ridge West.
It's under the lift to the leftbut, awesome, awesome new trail

(44:59):
.
You enter this boulder fieldunderneath the lift where
there's a steep drop off thisridge.
We're building several trailsthrough this ridge.

Josh (45:11):
You can see it from the lift.
It's a gnarly thing, people,right now.

Dane (45:14):
Well, the one under the lift I've seen that's been there
forever where you can get thatIn the trees to the left.

It's like a little Narnia land over there.

Dane (45:21):
Oh, that's cool.

You wouldn't believe it.
There's literally like littletunnels and stuff, but there's
30, 40 foot boulders just cakedin moss and there's ferns
growing in there and you're likeyou don't realize it's just
right over there.

Dane (45:33):
Is this on the left If you're coming down or on the
left when you're going on?

the right coming down you know I built those.
Jumps under the lift yeah.
You pass that and then there.
So there's bonita, and then youwould pass bonita and east
ridge.
Yeah, and go a couple hundredmore feet and down the hill and
um underneath the lift yeah andthen there's a new trail, like
they just trimmed through thegrass.
I mean, it's, it's, we'reworking on our signage yeah,

(46:00):
there is some signs there.

Dane (46:01):
I'm bummed, I didn't get to ride that you didn't see it I
didn't, I didn, didn't.

And there's like three or four different runs
down this ridge and you guysshould look up some videos right
now, because there's some coollines where you're literally
like 15-foot boulder on eachside and you're going down this
awesome chute.

Dane (46:21):
Maybe we will come back tomorrow.
Anyways, it's really wet inthere.
That sounds awesome.
Yeah, I feel like this mountaincould rival Angel Fire.
I really do.

It's stunningly beautiful and there's a lot of
cool unique spots.
That's one thing.
This year I've got to do a lotmore because in the last couple
years I got stuck on a slalomcourse or a jump line the whole
time I was here.
So this year I got to reallyride and explore a bit.
I did a little in the past, butman, I found so much cool stuff
this year.
I couldn't believe how diversethis place is.

(46:54):
And then Apache is totallydifferent.
That mountain up there is abovethis mountain and it's a
wonderful place.

Dane (47:03):
I can't wait for everyone to ride it, you get to the top
of this and you think you're ontop of the world and then, you
look over and there's a biggermountain right there what the
heck?

Josh (47:11):
yeah, how many people go over and ride it?
Is that getting a lot of ridersright now?

yeah, especially e-bikers, you know if you got an
e-bike, you can get to thosetrails in 10 minutes um if
you're pushing up, it's 25probably how's the signage for
that, if you're?
Pushing up, it's 25 probably.
How's the signage for that?
I mean not very good, but youcan't get lost on them, like
there's only three trails andthey all merge into one trail,
so there's no like side trailsthat you might like get lost on

(47:39):
or anything.

Josh (47:40):
I'll just go down bro.

Dane (47:41):
Yeah, Maybe I'll come, you know if you can make any
suggestions to them.
There's two things that I wouldlike you to bring up when
you're talking, here we go.
One is half day pass, okay, andtwo is kid pricing.
Oh okay, you know, like 12 andunder, 13 and under.
Yeah, do 13, because I have a13-year-old Do, 13 and under.
Yeah, those are the two thingsthat-.

Josh (48:02):
That would drive more traffic.

Dane (48:03):
Well, not just drive traffic, but make it more family
friendly.

And that grows everything.

Josh (48:09):
So, that was the only thing that I think I've ever and
the kids all want to do theother stuff too, right, they
want to do the mountain coaster,oh yeah, and the airbag.
They want to do the zip line,the trail that feeds into the-.

Dane (48:18):
Tubing slide.

Oh, is there a tube slide as well?
Yeah, it's right over here,okay.

Dane (48:23):
They have all kinds.
It's crazy.

Josh (48:25):
How much stuff?

Dane (48:26):
They have a jumping castle that they put up.

Yeah, a couple of blow-up stuff down low if you're
hanging out with your kids.

Dane (48:34):
There's a volleyball net and they always have balls and
stuff.
They have cornhole yeah.

Your whole family can be hanging out playing and
doing a picnic in the base whileI'm riding, you know?
And uh yeah, we got a newrestaurant this year yeah, great
food, um yeah, and there's tworestaurants one up top.

Josh (48:59):
You can have dinner or lunch up top and have like oh,
at the top 300 degree view.

Yeah, yeah, it's actually one of the best spots
to eat lunch.

Dane (49:05):
Yeah, they have fry bread, but then they do like a fry
bread taco.
Yeah, yeah.

There's different food at the restaurant up top
than down low.

Josh (49:12):
Yep Okay.

If you come here.
Yeah, if you want to get Indianfry bread, you have to go up to
the top.

Dane (49:18):
Yeah, it's pretty awesome yeah.
I was riding the Lyft with acouple who could not decide if
they were going to get the sweetfried bread or they were going
to get the taco fried bread.

We should probably explain to our listeners what
fried bread is.
It's bread that's fried.
I mean, this is Arizona stuff.
It's like a sopapilla.
Yeah, mexico stuff Very fluffy,delicious bread.
It's traditionally, from what Iknow, a lot of honey and
powdered sugar on top, but youcan eat it with savory meals as
well.
It's sweet and savory you caneven use the fry bread to make a

(49:54):
burger.
They sell fry bread burgers.

Josh (49:56):
It's Apache Burger.
That'd be good, that'd bereally good, it's so good.

Yeah, the Apache Burger is actually very good.

Dane (50:04):
And you can sit up on the patio and look at, like most of
northern Arizona.

Josh (50:08):
It's amazing, you know it's awesome, amazing views up
there, for sure I'd say, myfavorite part up here it sounds
silly is the clouds.

I mean with how many rainstorms come through and
whatnot.
It's kind of a bummer.
The park closes at 4, 4.
You've got to be out of here by5 because in the summer I've
seen so many unbelievablesunsets up here.

Dane (50:32):
Oh really.

And throughout the day the clouds look magical all
the time.

Dane (50:37):
Yeah, they should do like a sunset sightseeing lift.

Yeah, there's a few days a year that you that
you can take the lift down um inthe evening and stuff and it's
really cool.
Yeah, that's another thing wedidn't talk about is I saw a lot
of people hiking, so a lot ofpeople, yeah, kind of yeah, so
lift up and then hike down, yeah, I should mention that is, um
up until very recently, maybeeven this weekend kind of thing

(51:01):
is, uh, the scenic lift ridesand, you know, hiking down as
part of that just that liftticket is spend.
The biggest source of incomefor sunrise, um, throughout the
summer?
Yeah, we've never.
They've.
Sunrise has never historicallybeen profitable up here in the
summer.
They make money in the winteryeah, they do huge money in the
winter, but the summer has neverreally made money up here, so

(51:25):
just now.
But mountain bikes are about topass, or we're kind of in that
zone where we're starting topass the scenic lift riders for
the first time in sunrisehistory that's awesome.

Josh (51:34):
I'll tell you when, with the episode we do with angel
fire.
Yeah, patrick told us the samething yeah, we're about.

Even they do more, they do more scenic yeah than
they do mountain bikes, bikes.

Josh (51:44):
I wouldn't, have guessed that at Angel Fire I wouldn't
have either.

We're battling with that.
That's been me and TontoGravity guys' goal is to have
more mountain bikers than sceniclift riders.

Dane (51:57):
You guys are doing a great job of that, by the way.

Yeah, I remember I think the first year we came up
, we had like a 15% increase, um, and then another 15.
And then this year has beenlike a 20 something.

Dane (52:10):
Yeah, it's I.
I love it Cause I again, I keepsaying this I've been up here
so much.
I've seen it evolve, I've seenit devolve.
There was a couple of yearswhere it went backwards and they
did nothing.
And there was one year, in fact, they just closed and they just

(52:30):
would not open.
Yeah, and for mountain bikers,for mountain bikers, yeah, and
so like to see this, that whatyou guys are doing and
everything I, I hope that thetribe likes it.
I know that their motivationisn't money, but, um, I hope
they know that partial, you know.

Obviously they're creating happiness.
Yeah, I hope they know their,how much happiness they're
creating yeah, that's the bigthing is they need to see that
this is worth it going forward.
That's why I've put in a lot oftons of extra time from what
they hired me for is hopefully Ihave a job for the future and
hopefully we have a spot to ridefor the future.

Dane (52:58):
Yeah.

Sick.

Josh (52:59):
Yeah, I tell you what, man ?
I don't think that many peopleknow about this place the way it
is right now.

Dane (53:03):
It's getting out there through social media and through
videos and people talking thispodcast.

I hope people hear this and get Joe to come out.
Yeah, To get people out here.
I want to tell them a couple ofthings.
Go for it One.
We had our hotel mess.
A water pipe blew up in therelast year.
They did a $2 millionrenovation.
It got ruined.
And so the last few years.

(53:29):
That's a big part because it'skind of a far destination up
here.

Josh (53:33):
Yeah, for a lot of people we had to stay in Lakeside,
which is about 40 minutes awayor something.

So their lodge up here has had a little issues and
now it just hadn't.
After that they put in another,another three million, getting
it back and wow, or somethingclose to that.

Dane (53:49):
I shouldn't say numbers exactly but a lot in a bunch and
it's an awesome, amazingbuilding overlooking a stunning
lake yeah and you can see theski resort from the other side
of the building.

Um, but this awesome lodge that's so fun for
mountain bikers.
It has a pool in the center ofit.
It's like a very like uminteresting building it's like a
70s fun.

Josh (54:12):
Yeah, it's super fun.

There's a pool in the middle with a, the bar and
the pool tables next to it youcould.

Josh (54:19):
So it's all.

So it's all open and fully functional now no,
it's all open, functional andthey're literally like just
putting door numbers on thedoors.
It's so fresh and fullyfunctional now.
No, it's all open andfunctional and they're literally
just putting numbers on thedoors.

Josh (54:27):
It's so fresh and new.
Oh, wow, okay.

I helped my friends move into their room.
We couldn't figure out whatnumber it was because they
hadn't even put the numbers up.

Dane (54:38):
That's how fresh and new, all this stuff is so next year
that will be or next weekend, ornext weekend.

Yeah, so next year like that, or next weekend, or
next weekend, yeah, yeah.

Josh (54:45):
So anyways, all this stuff is two weeks because it's
coming along well.
I might put this one outearlier.
Okay, I'll talk to carlos.
Make sure he's okay with itjust because so that it lines up
.

Dane (54:53):
Carlos doesn't listen, he won't know.

Josh (54:54):
He won't know but it lines up better with their season.

So if we can get out earlier, yeah and then, uh,
the trailer park that we have uphere um is awesome and
improving, and there'll be moreand more places for people to
come with their RVs right in theyears past, up until just
recently, it's been really hardfor hardcore mountain bikers who
travel with a trailer, like youguys and all this stuff, to

(55:18):
have a place to park nearby andfacilities and dump sites and
power and all this stuff.
It's all coming.

Dane (55:26):
Oh, that's awesome.
That's great.
Yeah, we need that.
You're getting me so psyched,dude, you really are.

Yeah, they sound like they're in it for the long
term up here, so I'm pumped onthat.

Dane (55:34):
It's so good to hear because again I've said this
multiple times.
I've been here, I've seen it solong and it's just so much
different and so much betterthan it has been.

Josh (55:43):
So if you're listening to this, you need to get your ass
out of here.
Yeah, you really do, and it'sfamily.

Dane (55:47):
now I mean truthfully, this was a hard mountain to ride
.
You had to come out with someserious cojones to hit it before
, and now we're bringing six andeight-year-olds and
nine-year-olds.

Geesh.
Up until last year there wasbasically double black, so it's
almost eight, yeah, and now wehave 15 other trails that are
definitely less than a doubleblack.

Dane (56:09):
Yeah.

Now, from the top there's about seven trails and
that splits into a total of over30, you know, with all the
options.
So that gets a little confusing.
It's not 30 from the top.

Dane (56:20):
Yeah.

But from Midway there's gotta be 20 different
trails you could choose atMidway.

Josh (56:25):
That's awesome With the kids.
We pretty much went down Yageevery time.

Dane (56:29):
And then we would just join different things, denny.

Crisis or the cartoon forest.
You can even ride down the jumpline.
It's very rideable.
It totally is rideable.

Josh (56:41):
We took the kids down there, it's rollable.
That one section's got.
The gap jumps underneath thelift.

That's a different line, yeah, yeah.
So they told me I could buildlittle kickers over the wash.

Dane (56:51):
Yeah, yeah.

That's what I built.
Those are little kickers.
They look, they, they looktotally doable.

Josh (56:58):
They were like holy shit.

There's a couple of those washes that are wide,
but there is like what is thereGot to be like seven jumps in a
row under the lift and maybe thelast big jump is close.
38 feet probably in that 35foot plus that rock kicker over.
I made it so you could doubleit now.

Dane (57:21):
I like the rock kicker because you don't have to double
it.
It's not a gap.
You can land short, which I doall the time, you know and so I
can hit that one.
And then there's another one onthe side.
There's little ones, you know,that people don't even know
about, like I was jumping downYagi and there's little jumps
that jump you into thesedescents and it was so, so much
fun.

Josh (57:41):
I couldn't believe how many times, going up to lift, we
saw big groups of guys like 10or 12, or, in women, groups like
10 or 12.
Just just shredders.

Dane (57:48):
Yeah.

Josh (57:49):
Just hauling ass down.
Like we saw them, we had tohave been the Northern Arizona
mountain bike team.
Yeah, cause they all hadNorthern Arizona.

Dane (57:55):
Yeah, yeah, there's, I mean, there's so many Tucsonans.

So we've come up.
Yes, that's us.
Yeah, yeah, phoenix flagstaff,you have people from new mexico.

Dane (58:10):
Uh-huh, um did you know mexico too, tons of mexicans.

Yeah, yeah, dude I rode with uh 20 mexicans today
for three runs.

Dane (58:15):
I rode with uh roberto today and he was new his first
time, and so he followed turnthey're the most fun.

Josh (58:20):
Oh, that's, that's who was up there.

Dane (58:21):
Okay, yeah and turn and turner's like telling him where
to go.
Okay, you go this way.
You know, my nine-year-old islike okay, buddy, you go this
way and you'll hit it this way.
So I was so proud and kind ofscared.
That kid's going to be fasterthan me.

Mexico is a huge market for us out here.
We're really the closest parkfor a lot of Mexico.

Dane (58:39):
Yeah.

And one day hey, everybody listening put your
Facebook marketplace location inSonora or anywhere in Mexico.
You'll be shocked how manymountain bikes downhill bikes,
enduro bikes, You're like wherethey ride a lot.

Josh (58:55):
They got a big scene down there.
Big scene, big money in bikes.

Dane (58:58):
We talked to.

Hayseed.
They got a lot of nice bikesover there.

Dane (59:00):
There's a park A lot of people ride, called Capital Flow
, which is pretty awesome, whichyou gotta hit up if one one of
your travels it's down southarmacillo.

Okay, yeah, I think so.
Yeah, I just was hanging outwith those guys.

Dane (59:12):
They're like, yeah, you gotta come up to armacillo and
ride with us yeah, they'reawesome, and if you don't have
somebody to, let me know,because these guys are great and
they want more people.

Yeah, they want a lot of friends over there.
Yeah, they want more people.
I spend a lot of time in Mexico.

Dane (59:23):
Yeah, Mexico's pretty awesome.

Josh (59:25):
Yeah, that's amazing.

Dane (59:26):
Where's your other?
Where's your?
Where's a bike park Like?
What's your favorite bike parkother than this one?
I mean this one obviously hasgot to be your favorite.
This is the best right, butwhat's the second best?

I've always been a rider, ride all different kinds
of bikes, yeah, so it's a toughquestion because, um, I mean
yeah, and having traveled tomost of them across the west, um
, overall, if I'm hitting a bigmountain bike trail, I like
oregon and washington, I reallylove how much descent you can
get and the backcountryshuttling has been the coolest
thing I ever did, like.
Some of them are like over 20miles and it's two and a half
hour shuttle because there, youknow, elevation might start at

(01:00:11):
2000 and finish at seven andit's a much bigger descent than
most places I've been.
Oh, that sounds like here youknow you go nine to 10 or 11.
Yeah, Yep.
Yeah, it's not that muchcompared to 5,000 feet of
descent.

Josh (01:00:25):
So I got to hit mount graham man.
Yeah, I love just being in thezone for a while, and not being
deep into nature yeah so that'sbeen amazing.

Colby Landin (01:00:34):
I love that stuff and I love the, the dirt quality
in oregon, washington inspringtime.
Go there in july, it's the best.
Um, so I have this loop, Ifigured it out, and you go to
California, oregon andWashington in July and you work
your way to Montana.

Josh (01:00:52):
So you're just like chasing the dirt quality.

Dirt quality, yes, based on the time of year and
then here in fall is the best inArizona, colorado and New
Mexico.
So you hit springtime inCalifornia, oregon, washington
and you work your way throughColorado and Montana and stuff
in the middle of summer and thenwork your way to Colorado, and
Colorado is the gnarliest Likeas far as if you want to go to

(01:01:18):
the state with the gnarliesttrails, colorado.

Dane (01:01:21):
Yeah.

The most fun flowy trails oregon, washington,
california, um, and then here inarizona, I think sunrise is uh,
is uh unique.
It's um, it rains a lot.
It's it's different thananywhere you've ever been.
It's so mossy and um, wet anduh for peeing out here in.

(01:01:42):
Arizona you'll never forget it.
It's different than anywhere,but Angel Fire has been my
favorite as far as everywhereI've been.
It's just raw fast.
I love that kind of stuff forme.

Dane (01:01:56):
I just had this vision of Colby driving and getting out of
his truck.
My minivan, your minivanMinivan yes, getting open the
door.
What kind of minivan I have?
My truck for pulling my tractor.
Truck for pulling tractor in atoyota sienna.

oh, love the sienna okay, so I can totally
picture I'm picturing.
Is it white?
It's a champagne, goldchampagne.
Okay, he's in a champagne.
You know, my bike has more thanthat.
Your bike's inside, right, yeah?

Dane (01:02:22):
yeah, yeah.

Josh (01:02:23):
So he opens the door and I just see him like lean over and
and grab a handful of no, graba handful of dirt and just kind
of sniff it and like, just kindof like, and then and then, if
it's not right, he just getsback in the car and keeps going,
you know, until he gets out andit's like perfect.

(01:02:43):
And then he's oh yeah, For therecord, this is the first time
anyone's ever mentioned amoisture probe.

Dane (01:02:48):
I feel like everybody should have a moisture probe.

I have a cactus nursery.

Dane (01:02:53):
Oh, that's cool.
That's where I invest my moneyinto.
Do you do succulents?

No, I have maybe a few, but no, I just do cactus.

Josh (01:02:59):
My wife geeks out on succulents.
What type of cactus?

I got over 225 species, oh wow.

Josh (01:03:04):
What type of cactus.
I got like over 225 species.
Oh wow, that's cool, like thefull spectrum.

Do you go all the way up to the?
There's 17,500 species, so Ionly have a few.

Dane (01:03:12):
Wow, oh my God, how many prickly pears do you have?
Not many.
I don't do many of those.
I hate those.

Just do stuff people want to buy.

Josh (01:03:19):
Do you do swirls?

then A little bit, but they grow too slow for the
profitability.

Dane (01:03:24):
Yeah, I totally see that you can't get them wild.

I lost them you can actually like, as far as
like if they were to develop anew area.
Yeah, a permit for them isusually, I think, 15 bucks, but
it's like whoever owns that landcan get it and they have to get
it, get a permit.
And it's a lot more simple thanyou'd think, but you also have
to have it approved.

(01:03:47):
But it's cheap and if you'redeveloping a new area, there's
no shortage of saguaros outthere.
But they are expensive, veryexpensive, if you have a few.

Josh (01:03:55):
Also the first time we've ever met a cactus farmer.
Yeah, I could talk about thatforever.
That's pretty awesome.
I got some goldens, some goldenbarrels that I planted a long
time ago.

I got a hole in the back of my hand where a
squirrel went mountain biking.
I still have cactus needles inme, oh yeah.

Josh (01:04:11):
Down in Tucson we ride cactus.

Dane (01:04:13):
We call them the corner marshals.

Yeah, I'm obsessed with them.

Josh (01:04:17):
We're actually starting our brush-tober to kind of back,
because everything with themonsoons is growing into the
trails.
Actually, next weekend we'regoing to start doing the
brushing and getting all thatstuff out of there.

Dane (01:04:27):
Yeah, if you want to stop people from cutting corners,
plant some prickly pear, rightyeah.

Josh (01:04:31):
Hey, do you know?
So one of the podcasts I listento is called Trail Effect.
It's spelled A-E-F-F-E-C-T.
It's done by Josh Bloom.
If you're a it's.
It's all about trail buildingand it's amazing.
I think he has almost 200episodes on there.
So I've learned a ton.
I've been trying to learn,learn, learn about trail stuff.
I joined the trail core um withuh SDMB.

(01:04:51):
It's one of the advocacy groupsin Tucson snoring desert
mountain bikers.
So I've just been trying totalking about the loan pass.

(01:05:18):
Are you familiar with this?
No, it's not.
So, the loan pass.
I think they have 50 parks thathave signed up and for it's 249
and you get two days, two fulldays and one half price day at
50 different parks.
Wow, for 250.

Dane (01:05:25):
So for your, for your trip , for you personally you should
probably check out the Lone Pass.

Josh (01:05:27):
Yeah, you could build your whole trip around that, but
also for the park here it wouldbe interesting if they would be
interested in participating inthat, because that would bring a
bunch of different folks.
Yeah, because if you have italready and then they work it
out so they've got a podcast onTrail Effect on the Lone Pass it
might be something interestingto talk to him about about next

(01:05:48):
year.

Yeah.

Dane (01:05:48):
Yeah, it's really.
Yeah, I'm so excited.
This, this mountain, is amazingand it's just finally getting
the expertise and the precisionand the passion that it's needed
for a long, long time, to goalong with the tribe, who has
got all of that, but they don'thave that.
Trail building, the know-how,the know-how, yeah.

It's kind of funny , Like so, when I had dinner
with them the other day.
The beginning of next year I'mgoing to be training a bunch of
people here on how to take careof stuff better.
Cool, Because.

Josh (01:06:19):
It's important.

It's kind of fun.
It's having worked on trailsmost of my life and having
tracks and stuff you know itdoes take a lot of skill and
like knowing what to do, whattools to use and all that.
It seems basic and it is forthe most part, but you'd be
surprised how many people likedon't do the best job or push

(01:06:41):
the rocks up instead of down.
Kind of simple stuff.
But more so too is just likepreventative maintenance and
showing them how to put in moredrainage and make more lines and
stuff.

Dane (01:06:57):
I like the trail technique I didn't know about is, and I
couldn't figure it out whypeople are doing it, but they
build a little bump right beforethe berms yeah.
And I'm like what is going on?
Why do they keep putting a jumpinto the berm, like that
doesn't make any sense?
But that's a water thing, toget the water to go away from
the berms.
It doesn't flow down it and rutit out.

That's like number one rule ofbuilding.
Any track or trail is drainage.

Dane (01:07:23):
Yeah, yeah.

And that's sometimes the hardest part,
almost always.

Josh (01:07:28):
Do you guys actually bring water out there with you and
like drop it and see where itgoes?

No, On the skills park over here, that belt above
the parking lot, I can go turnon a pump that runs the snow
making machines.

Josh (01:07:42):
Right.

And I can have like a fire hose that goes 120
feet of power.

Josh (01:07:47):
So you can totally see where the water is going to go.

It'll blow you off your feet, so I can water the
holes I can water like half thepark from one spot.

Josh (01:07:57):
Oh my gosh, that's awesome .
Well, hey, colby, it's beensuper awesome talking to you
today.

Dane (01:08:01):
Thank you so much.

Josh (01:08:02):
Dude, it's.

Dane (01:08:03):
Thank you so much for the work that you've done in here,
and thank you to the tribe forthe, for you know supporting it
and the work they've done hereand the Tonto Gravity Riders
yeah.

Josh (01:08:14):
Anyone that is contributing up here.
This is such a wonderfulresource.

Dane (01:08:17):
Yeah.

Josh (01:08:18):
Do you have any final thoughts for our listeners?

A couple of things .
Yeah, if you want to come helpout, you can donate.
If you donate five days or more, you get a season pass for
mountain biking.
Wow.

Josh (01:08:31):
And if you donate 15 days or more.

You get a full year pass with the winter stuff
too.
Wow.

Dane (01:08:37):
That's awesome which is very expensive, like the winter
stuff.

But 15 days is a lot, but you wouldn't regret it
at all.
It's a pleasure being up hereevery day and I've worn a long
sleeve shirt or a jacket for thepast 100 days I've been here
yeah, we're.

Josh (01:08:52):
I've been wearing nothing but shorts because it's 120
degrees.

Yeah, yeah and then, uh, the apache thing,
apache peak, like we're openinganother mountain next year which
is like gonna double the sizeof this park as far as what
we're allowed to use, and, um, Ithink we'll have some of the
most trails in the country ofany park I really do and then
I'll be building the first jumpjump line down that entire

(01:09:18):
mountain next year too that'swhat I'll that's my, the main
thing I'll be doing all summer,all summer it's building a jump
line, yeah, like a big bear kindof thing I'll be doing all
summer next year, all summerjust building a jump line, yeah,
like a big bear kind of thing,you know.

Dane (01:09:28):
Just jumps all the way down.
Party wave, yeah, yeah.

So hopefully I find good dirt over there.

Dane (01:09:34):
I'm nervous about it.

They got this forest that kind of had a bark
beetle kind of thing comethrough.
So that's where they're havingme build, which sounds great
because this forest is dense uphere yeah.

Josh (01:09:46):
We were talking to one of the ski patrol folks about the
chipper.

Dane (01:09:49):
Yeah, yeah, I was telling them that a lot of places use a
chipper with the bark beetleDude.

I told them I didn't know they did that, but I
was like that might not be abad idea.

Josh (01:09:59):
It helps to eradicate the bark beetles, because if you cut
, it down's down.

I thought you were talking about adding loam to
the trail.
No, no, but that would work tooright.
That's a double thing.

Dane (01:10:07):
but yeah, a lot of places could help with the bark beetle.
Yeah, yeah, that's the chip andyou.
The hardest part here would begetting the chipper to a place.
You go to some places andyou'll see a big area.
It's like a bald spot, and thenthere's a bunch of chipped up
stuff.

Josh (01:10:24):
Well, hey, man, on behalf of all the Arizona mountain
bikers, the California mountainbikers, New Mexico mountain
bikers, the Utah mountain bikersand anybody that's willing to
come out dude.

thank you so much.
Yep, big race in a couple ofweeks.
Come on up.

Josh (01:10:36):
Thanks for having me on what's.

NBAA Okay.

Dane (01:10:42):
Are they doing a downhill or are they just doing the
enduro?

It's an enduro race.
I hear it's just as big as theBME.

Dane (01:10:48):
I hear it's massive.
Yeah, they do like a three tofive race.
There'll be a slalom race andprobably downhill.

I guess that's next week or two weeks, two
weeks, I think, late, september22nd I think.

Dane (01:10:59):
Guys at work.
Check that out.

MBAA race series.
It's massive.
There'll be hundreds, if notthousands, of people here.
Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah, we'll check that out.

Josh (01:11:09):
So we'll get this episode out.
It'll probably be next week.
No week after next, if we can.
Yeah, we'll shift, so it won'tbe this Tuesday, it'll be next
Tuesday.
We'll make sure I'll get you wethat out here.
Um, thank you guys.
All the links will be in theshow notes for all the stuff we
talked about today.
So just check the show notesand, uh, we'll put, we'll put
Colby's uh socials in there, ifhe lets us.

Dane (01:11:30):
Yeah.

And uh, if you want to hire a trail builder.

Dane (01:11:33):
We know a guy, we know a guy.

You need a track bill, especially that's what I
do.

Dane (01:11:37):
Yeah, there you go.

Thanks Josh, thanks Dane.

Dane (01:11:39):
Thank you, can you dig it?

Josh (01:11:55):
Can you dig it?
Can you dig it?

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083 – Sunrise Park Resort: Arizona's Only Lift-Assisted Bike Park with Builder Colby Landin

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}083 – Sunrise Park Resort: Arizona's Only Lift-Assisted Bike Park with Builder Colby Landin