112 - Bike Shop Secrets: Chasing Creaks - A Mechanic's Nightmare and How You Can Fix It

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Are you struggling with a mysterious bike creak that's driving you insane? In this episode of Mountain Cog Podcast, hosts Josh and Dane dive deep into the most frustrating problem in bike maintenance: diagnosing and fixing bike creaks. Learn the systematic approach mechanics use to troubleshoot creaking sounds, from checking your headset and wheel axles to inspecting bottom brackets, pedals, and suspension pivots. Dane shares insider knowledge on the most common culprits behind bike creaks and reveals why some noises seem impossible to locate, even for professional mechanics.

The conversation also tackles the confusing world of bike grease – do you really need expensive brands like Motorex, or will basic Park Tool grease work just fine? Discover when to use slick honey versus standard bearing grease, the truth about carbon assembly paste, and why proper lubrication prevents most creaking issues. Whether you're a home mechanic or just want to better communicate with your local bike shop, this episode provides actionable bike maintenance tips that could save you hours of frustration and potentially hundreds of dollars in unnecessary repairs.

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Episode Transcript

Host (00:22):
Dane
Just in the background.
Josh
Just randomly talking?
Dane
Like, hey Dane, maybe youshouldn't adjust the mic shit
while we record.
Hey, you know what?
Like, I if I just look at thisthing, you'll hear like
something in the background.
Uh we're in a new positionrecording tonight.
That sounds dirty.

(00:42):
It does.
Um not that kind of position.
But yeah, like it, I so I hadto like move the mic around, and
Josh is such a sound freak.
Like he he's gotta have theperfect sound.
Josh
We're in the back bench, notthe front bench.
Dane
I you know, I have issues likethis with my wife.
Uh really?
Yeah, like, you know, um she'llhave like issues, you know, and

(01:03):
we have to talk it out.
And there's one that came upand um I was you know, I she she
was at work, you know, sheworks from home.
Yeah.
And so she is, you know,dealing with uh like Zoom calls
and stuff like that, andsomething went wrong or
something.
And and I was like, you know,you you just need to embrace

(01:26):
your mistakes.
That's good advice.
Yeah, and then she came overand gave me a hug.
Josh
the best part of my fucking day.
Dane
the punchline halfway through.
He's looking at his phone.
My phone shut off, so I can nolonger glance over.

(01:48):
Josh
how you.
Dane
Hey, guess what?
I actually, if you wouldn'thave said anything, I thought I
pulled it off.
Josh
it was so entertaining.
Oh my god.
But in the meantime, I inventeda new word.
Oh shit.
What is it?
Plagiarism.
Dane

(02:11):
maybe you're stealing that word.
I could.
If only there was some way todescribe what you're doing.
All right.
It is, I don't even know whatday of the week.
Josh
Wednesday, Wednesday night onthe MCP here, Mountain Cog.
By the way, I uh today, I don'teven know why I'm telling our
listeners this, but today Iredirected MTNCOG to our website
is mtnc-o-g.com.

(02:31):
Okay.
So now it's Mountain Cog.
You can spell it out, or youcan do mtncog.com.
Only six letters.
Dane
Also gets you to our website.
Okay.
What was the first one?
Mountain.
Mountain Cog.
Can you spell it?
Yeah.
Mountain.
Okay.
All right, gotcha.
Josh
Okay.
So now we have two websitesbeing directed to us.

(02:51):
We got to get some shirts withthe new logo.
I I got an idea about shirtsand hats and stuff, but I don't
want to tell you online, sowe'll talk about it later.
Okay, all right.
I got an interesting idea.
Okay.
So we're here for another bikeshop secret episode.
Dane
Part two.
Because the last one that wedid, you had one question.
We had like one question thatlasted the entire all the

(03:14):
questions I had tonight are notfrom that list.
Josh
What?
Yes.
Oh, so what about that list?
Well, that'll be part 75 orwhatever.
I have so many questions foryou, Dane.
Um, but we think we have somegood ones.
Yeah.
Um and so we'll just get intoit.
Is that cool?
Okay.
Yeah, cool.
Absolutely.
How was your day, by the way?
Dane
It's been busy at the shop,which is great.
Uh, they're um this week's beena little long already, and it's

(03:37):
Wednesday, so I'm lookingforward to the weekend.
Uh, I still can't ride, so uhthe update on my shoulder is uh
I got three weeks to go before Ican ride, but I'm gonna sneak
out uh and ride on the pavementwith my kids.
I think that's pretty safe.
I will.
I honestly I think my bone'svery solid.
Yeah, I just don't want tocrash, and you know, they they

(03:59):
you know, they want me to besafe because they don't want a
mishap.
Josh
starting on Saturday and I'mgonna hang out with Rob.
So my I as a matter of fact,Rob called me, Rob Tavacoli,
who's the CEO of Sport RX, hecalled me while I was here.
Dane
Josh
Dane
Josh
Santa's Village, between goingto La Sueno, uh-huh, and just

(04:23):
based on the time commitmentsand like trying to be good dad,
we decided that we're gonna doNoble again.
Oh, really?
Dane
Village.
If it's not hot, La Sueno.
Josh
I want to try to be back bylike three o'clock.
Oh, we can go do Noble and Ican be back by three o'clock.
And if we do La Sueno or if wedo all day, Santa, you know,
Santa's Santa's Village forsure.

(04:43):
We're not gonna get home tilllike nine o'clock.
Yeah.
So um I need to talk to youbecause I think I'm gonna do
maybe some some suspensiontransportation here back and
forth.
So we'll we'll talk about that.
Yeah.
Um but yeah, I'm reallyexcited.
I need some time away fromwork.
Yeah, I wish I was going by Iwish I was going to be.
Dane
Yeah, I really am Jones andhard to get out on the bike, and

(05:04):
that's why I'm gonna just goout with my kids and and get the
wheels moving.
I did um the other day, I washere by myself on on one of the
days we were closed catching upon work, and I finished a bike,
and I went outside to test rideit, totally not even thinking
about it, totally had forgottenabout my shoulder, got on the
bike, and I'm betting in thebrakes and I'm riding around the
parking lot and came back and Iwent to to kind of come up the

(05:27):
little curb up to the sidewalk.
And and I stopped and I waslike, uh, there's a cur, there's
a um, you know, what is it, theparking block, yeah, and then
there's a gap and then thesidewalk, and I'm like, oh, I'm
not gonna jump that.
I'm just I I I shouldn't jumpthat.
And then I stopped the bike andI was like, Oh, wait, I just
rode a bike.
And I've got a brokencollarbone.

(05:48):
Josh
Maybe I shouldn't be doingthis.
Dane
nothing, and I was like reallykind of excited because that was
the first time on the bikesince I crashed.
So it was just nice, and I youcould feel that the tiny bit of
riding, the therapy that wenton, you know.
It sucks it out.
Josh

(06:08):
It sucks the sucks the stressout.
Dane
I was definitely more patientwith people that day.
Like it it was nice.
Josh
night ride with like my micbuddies on the east side.
Dane lives on the northwestside.
Dane
for if you're in LA, that'snothing.
But in Tucson, that's like Icould drive to Phoenix, you

(06:31):
know.
Josh
call the flight club.
So you're because you're notsupposed to talk about it.
And this week we had anotherperson show up, and so I had to
do the speech.
Like, obviously, some of youare not following the rules of
flight club because I see a newface here.
It's hilarious.
No, it's a it's a cool group.

(06:55):
Um works well.
And we it's interesting, webring two beers.
I shouldn't say this on thepodcast because someone's gonna
try to catch us, but we bringtwo beers each, uh-huh, and the
beers get hidden at thebeginning of the ride.
Uh-huh.
We can't bring more than twobeers each because that limits
that makes sure that we don'tget like hammered and routed
post-ride.
We usually ride 10 or 11 miles,and we're always out there.

(07:17):
We're like, hey, you guys wantto go another five miles?
And then someone in the group'slike, We got beers waiting, and
we're like, okay, let's headback.
So we get a good 10-mile ridein at night, which is a blast.
Dane
them with you?
Josh
little cooler, it's got ice andstuff like that.
So you stash it at like thefront.
And we hide it in the desert.

(07:37):
Yeah.
Uh somewhere, somewhere inTucson.
Dane
Let's say that.
But you're stashing it so thatyou can do kind of a loop and
then come back and then it'snice and fresh, and it's not all
shaken up.
Josh
Yeah.
You have to ride from yourhouse to the trailhead with the
beer.
Oh, that's cool.
That's responsible of you.
I there's you're Which is asurprise, right?
Yeah, yeah.

(07:58):
Dane
There's lots of um group ridesthat we have around that, you
know, involve beer.
There's a company, uh FarendGear, who Oh, I don't know them.
They started off in Tucson, uh,and they make um like cozies.
Coozies?
Beer koozies, but they makethis one sling one.

(08:19):
So you can they have thesepieces of uh like you know, it's
like the the stuff you stick inyour freezer for your cooler.
Yeah, but they're beer canshaped, and so you freeze them,
then you put them the beer canin it and then in the koozie,
and it keeps it cold, and andthat's important here in the
desert.
But they make a sling onethat's really cool.
So you can put like five beerson there, yeah, yeah, and you
can have it like as a bandolier,you know.

(08:39):
Don't tell me that.
Oh yeah.
And so um I'm pretty surethey're still doing that.
Uh uh, the guy who started itmoved away, he's awesome.
And I'm blanking on his namebecause I'm awful when I'm on
the mic, but um, yeah.
But I you know, the his hisstuff is really cool, and
there's a whole group of guysthat use that stuff, and that's
part of their ride.

(09:00):
Like the the the uh beer ride,you know, the beer, you know,
the beer break or whatever.
Yeah.
So if you guys didn't knowthis, Dane doesn't drink at all.
Josh
And you know how I know youdon't drink.
Well, I mean, I drink water.
You drink water, he doesn'tdrink any alcohol.
Do you know how I know youdon't drink?
How?
Because you called it a cozy.
Uh yeah, coo kooz koozie,right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dane
Josh

(09:22):
easily.
Dane
be saying pop.
Pop.
Yeah.
I grew up saying pop too.
Yeah, but you know whatinteresting, I I lived in Texas
for a while.
Josh
I don't even know.
But I gotta finish the thoughtjust so we don't have like a
dead end.
But they call everything, or atleast they did, they called
everything coke.
Oh, yeah.
So it's like, what kind of cokedo you want?
I'm like, what do you mean whatkind of coke do I want?

(09:43):
Like, well, we got Sprite, Dr.
Pepper, Fannah.
I'm like, those aren't Coke.
Like, yeah.
Dane
Yeah.
Well, I'll always say I want adiet soda.
And then it's funny, I thinkthere's some legal obligation.
I'm not joking when I say this.
The person at the restaurantwill be like, is diet Pepsi
okay?
You know, or is diet coke okay?
And I'm like, how many peopleget really mad at you?

(10:08):
Josh
What do you think?
We're 10 minutes in, we haven'ttalked a day.
Dane
meaty stuff.
I got some good questions.
Okay.
Josh
things, probably universally uhaccepted by all mountain bikers,
maybe even all just bicyclists,like serious bicyclists, is

(10:29):
diagnosing a creek.
Oh my god, and I've got onewhen I was coming back last
night.
Um I'm you're gonna be proud ofme.
You haven't been with me awhile.
I'm getting faster, bro.
And I'm getting slower, bro.
It's good.
Maybe we'll meet in the middlesomewhere.
But uh Lacey's been coachingme.
Nick's been everyone's beencoaching me, trying to help Josh
get faster.
But um, I've unlocked somethings and figured out some of

(10:50):
the things you downhillers do.
Dane
Josh
Dane
Josh
Oh, yeah.
I didn't know that.
Oh, you're just coasting thewhole time.
Jesus.
Turns out when you pedal, yougo left.
Lacey's telling me, like, yougotta pump and pedal.
I'm like, downhill?
Yeah.

(11:10):
Like, that's what I do uphill.
Why would I pedal downhill?
I want to.
She's like, no, if you want togo fast, you gotta pedal.
Dane
It's amazing how much uh like adownhill race is like a
six-minute sprint.
Yeah, like full on spring.
Josh
chilling on the downhill.
Yeah, now it's like my heartrate's exploding on the
downhill.
So, anyways, um, diagnosing acreek.
So, could you help like someoneyou know, customer comes in,

(11:33):
says, Hey Dane, or or whomever,uh, this bike is creaking,
cracking, popping, whatever.
Like, what's the process thatyou go through to help diagnose
that and fix that?
What are the most commonculprits?
What are the solution sets?
You know, and and help ourlisteners kind of think through
that.
Dane

(11:54):
their wallet out.
Josh
Dane
creeks are just the biggest,hardest thing to do, I would
say.
As long as I've been working onbikes, the most daunting task
is finding and chasing them.
Josh

(12:15):
Dane
Josh
and I'm like, hey man, I'mgonna be on vacation for a week.
Yep, this thing's got a creek,good luck.
Dane
And and so uh creeks can comefrom everywhere and anywhere,
and sometimes they willliterally sound like they're
coming from one part of thebike, but actually be at another
part of the bike.

(12:36):
And most often creeks are theycan be signs of something being
loose, something being out oftolerance or broken.
Uh they can be you can get acreak when uh frame has a crack.
You can it will kind ofmanifest in kind of a creak.
Um you can get ticking, sotickings are in the creek

(12:57):
category.
Pop, tick, creep, anything thatdoesn't sound right.
Yeah.
You can have uh little grit inbetween your suspension pivots
that makes a little noise but isnot doing anything, but it
drives you insane.
Um, the the irony is we'll havepeople, we'll have customers
that are so upset about a creek,and even though it's not doing

(13:18):
anything, that they're justalmost can't bride.
Josh
Dane
have a if it's got a creek,Jesus.
But then we have the oppositecustomer that comes in and we're
like, how are you how is thisbike still working?
Not not even the cr not justthe noises, but they're putting
up with like you know, the thecranks are loose and like

(13:41):
headsets loose, like you know,the bike is falling, quite
literally falling apart, youknow.
The amount of times I've seen abike come in with a broken rear
axle, and the guy's like, Yeah,I just started doing this six
months ago, and I just keptriding it.
Like, what?
And so it's amazing thetolerance level that changes
between people.
Yeah.

(14:02):
Um, I am very tolerant.
If I know that the creek isjust one of those annoyances and
it's an anomaly and it's not aperformance thing, I can tune it
out.
And so I I I will often youknow let something slide.
My my current newest bike has acreek in it, and it's three
rides old.
And I'm like, Yeah, pretty sureI broke some Loctite loose,

(14:27):
took a part off, and when I putit back, I probably didn't
torque it correctly.
And I'm pretty sure that's whatit is, but nothing's gonna fall
out, and it works fine.
I just need to go grease thesurface.
Yeah.
So okay.
Josh
diagnosis like like we did lastweek.
So take us through the wholediagnosis process and how you
guys figure it out and what themost common culprits can be.

(14:48):
Dane
There is no diagnosis, there isno troubleshooting flow chart,
there's nothing.
Because you have to first,okay, I guess so.
Let me let me start with thefirst thing we have to do is try
and figure out the area of thebike that's coming from.
Gotcha.
You know, if you come in andyou're hearing it in your
saddle, uh in the shop, whatwe'll do is we'll often do a

(15:09):
bunch of like yanking and andlike chiropractic looking moves
on your bike where we're tryingto like induce the creak.
Yeah.
You know, like we'll twist thesaddle and we'll uh often I'll
hold the saddle and and grab therear wheel and kind of pull it
side to side, okay, you know,and see if I can get the noise
to be duplicated.
Um creeks often are in a bottombracket area, it's really

(15:30):
common.
Josh
Dane
to one side as we side load uhthe crank on the pedal, and then
quickly switch to the otherside and side load the other one
and see, because sometimesthat's a sign that the bottom
bracket is shifting.
And so only when you'repedaling is that bottom bracket
moving, so you can't just pushone side, you've got to have to

(15:52):
shift it one side over to theother side, over to the other
side, and that's the noiseyou're hearing while you're
riding.
Um saddles can make the noisewhere it's the seat clamp or
sometimes the interface of theseat post in the frame.
Um sometimes the seat collarhas a little grit underneath it,
it's that simple.
Um headsets creak all the time.
Uh one of the biggest causes ofcreaks is overwashing your

(16:17):
bike.
I hate washing bikes, dude.
When you work on bikes, bikewashing hater.
And again, I'm gonna throw thedisclaimer we're in the desert,
we get away with a lot more.
Like if you are in a wetclimate, you your bike's gonna
get wet and you have to get thecrud off, so you're just gonna
deal with it.
But you're not gonna be reallysurprised when you have to

(16:37):
replace your bearings much moreoften.
Josh
Dane
You hear a creak?
We're getting some weirdfeedback.
I'm not hearing it.
Are you hearing it?
Maybe it's your headphones.
And then there's maybe homelesspeople outside shouting.
Take your headphones off.

(16:57):
Josh
Dane
Are you gonna cut that out orare you gonna leave it?
I don't know that I can get it.
Well, I'll cut out all this,you and I talking.
Now you know how creeks affectyou.
Josh
Okay, so sorry about that.
We got a cricket in Dane'sshop, and I'm like hearing it in
the mic, and I'm like, Dane,stop talking.

(17:18):
Yes, there's a fucking cricketin here, which is hilarious
because we're talking aboutcreeks.
Do you remember where you werego at?
Dane
different areas you can havecreeks, and then uh some of the
things that can help causecreeks.
You know, first one is kind ofoverwashing or or the bearings
running out of lubrication.
Josh
Dane

(17:40):
will creak, like uh, you know,if a bearing, a seal cartridge
bearing starts to move or shiftin its perch, you know, or its
orifice or whatever you want tocall it, basically where where
it sits, it can cause a noise.
And then bottom brackets, uh,there's a big trend of what's
called press fit bottom bracketswhere they're not threaded.
And so those drive a lot ofpeople nuts.

(18:01):
One of the discussions we hadtoday in the shop is how one of
our brands tolerance is so good.
Pivot.
Yeah, even though they havepress fit bottom brackets, we
almost never have issues.
Yep.
Um, we have a couple tricksthat we kind of prep bikes to
not have those creeks.
Josh

(18:24):
practical advice.
And you're kind of talking inbroad generality, so I want to
bring you back.
Like, let me tell you thethings I do and then you can
correct me.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay, so like one of the firstthings I do is check the
headset.
And now when you say check theheadset, what's the point?
So to make sure that theheadset is tight so that there's
compression.
So you do that.
So I put my fingers on the topof the top tube, on either side,

(18:47):
I hold the front brake, and Imove the bike back and forth to
see if the bike is actuallymoving, like I can feel the fork
moving independent of the fr ofthe frame.
Yeah.
And that tells me that there'snot enough compression.
I think it tells me thatthere's not enough compression
on that stark nut that's pullingtogether the headset with the

(19:09):
fork.
Tensioning the headset.
Thank you.
Tensioning the headset.
Yeah.
So that's the first thing I do.
Okay.
Is that an okay place to start?
Dane
that that comes loose, whichactually does on new bikes a
lot, um, it's it's really commonthat that can come loose, and
then that can be a source of acreak.
You're you know, to describewhat you're doing, you're kind

(19:30):
of bridging the gap with yourfinger from the frame to the
headset.
Yeah.
And then your finger will feellittle movements, and if they're
independent, you know thatthere's some play in there.
Yeah.
Josh
tightening it onto the forksteerer.
Yeah.
And then I tighten up a littlebit the to torque, of course.

(19:51):
Yep.
Dane
that top bolt, that toptensioning bolt, doesn't have a
torque because it's a tension.
And so you need to the thehardest part of that is knowing
how much tension.
Right.
Because if you just if you justcrank it down, it'll start to
pull that.
It'll not only do that, butit's gonna side load your

(20:12):
bearings so they're gonna uhdeteriorate faster.
And so you're kind of trying toget this kind of sweet spot.
Sweet spot, perfect tension,and there's a little bit of an
art form, but it's not superhard.
Josh
to turn, but not hard to turn.
Okay.
Dane

(20:34):
all the time when I'm justtalking to somebody and I have a
bike next to me, and I just doit out of habit, is I'll grab
the grab the headset spacers,and I'll just be while I'm
talking to them trying to turnthem.
And if you can turn thoseheadset spacers, you know,
without you know taking thething apart, you have a really
good chance that that headset'sway too loose.
Josh

(20:55):
Dane
It's funny because I do it somuch that I will be talking to
somebody on the sales floortrying to twist the headset.
And I'll just be now theheadset spacers under the stem.
Under the stem, obviously,yeah.
And I'll just be kind of likejust put, you know, what is
this, your forefinger and yourthumb?
Yeah.
And I'll just kind of just beindex finger.
Index finger and thumb, andI'll just turn it.

(21:16):
And if I can do it easily, thenI know that I gotta tell a
mechanic to go adjust thatheadset.
Um or if I'm taking in a bike,you know, uh, same thing.
I can kind of quickly or ifwe're on the trail, like I can
do that with a friend's bike andjust kind of do a quick
adjustment.
It doesn't mean that the theheadset is um if you if they
don't move move, it doesn't meanthat the headset is at perfect

(21:39):
tension, but it's less likely tobe super loose.
Josh
determined that the this is myprocess and you can correct it
and make it change the order ofoperations and make me more
effective.
The second thing I'll do isI'll grab the um handlebars and
then I'll twist or tweak thefront wheel to see if the axle's

(22:03):
tight.
Yeah.
And just feel if like thatfront axle is tight.
And then I go and do the samething to the back, and I cannot
tell you how often that's theproblem.
Dane
I'm just shaking the wheel backand forth to see if the axle's
tight.
Okay.
Josh
Just like, yeah, is it is it Imean the wheel should be pretty

(22:26):
firmly placed in you know in thefork or in the rear axle.
Dane
called cup and cone systems, andthe bearings weren't sealed,
and you could develop play uhthe way that they were built,
they would uh they wouldactually develop play.
But your quick release would betight.
So it's didn't do any good totighten your quick release

(22:47):
anymore, but your wheel would beloose.
Josh
Dane
Josh
it was an axle problem or a hubproblem.
Dane
impactive, and so I find I justcheck my through axles.
Usually either they'll have alever on it or I'll check it
with the bottom.
Josh
probably just go check the axleand make sure it's tight.
Dane

(23:09):
developed back when you startedriding and you just continue to
do it.
Um that's why I was questioningit because I'm like, wait, why
wouldn't you just check youraxle?
And uh and as a downhiller, Iwas taught very, very early
every run almost checked well,not just that, like suspension
bolts, everything.
Yeah, the amount of like impactand vibration that's going on

(23:30):
those bikes is like ten timeswhat a regular bike is going
through, and stuff comes loosereal easy.
And so you can come down themountain and have your rear axle
being you know starting to moveout, your wheel can shift over,
it can do a lot of damage.
Josh
do this, but you know the bikeracks that are really popular,
the one-up racks?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(23:50):
What I've noticed since I'vegotten that rack and I've had it
in the two bike configurationin the four-bike, and I love
that rack.
It's an amazing rack.
Some somehow that racktransfers the vibration from the
road to your bike more than anyother rack I've seen.

(24:14):
And I cannot tell you how manytimes I've gone on a long trip,
took my bike off, and there wasthree or four bolts that were
loose because that rack hasshaken and moved those bolts
loose.
Dane
I I don't think it's specificto just that rack.
Josh
Dane

(24:35):
one of the the kids' RockyMountains, not my kids, but a
friend's kid's um RockyMountains, we got up to the top
to get off, and his axle had wasalmost halfway out.
And you know, the bike wouldn'tfunction that way, and we had
just got done doing a run, andso we're like and it was a dirt
road that we're gonna do.
It happened in the train thetransmit.
And so checking your nuts andbolts is really important.

(24:59):
Back to the creek part andheadsets.
Um, one of the things isgrease.
So a lot of people they theygrease sometimes works its way
out, and and overwashing orwashing your bike can push
grease out of an area.
Josh
Dane
surfaces, they actually move.

(25:20):
Like a lot of stuff on yourbike actually moves when you're
using it, even though you thinkit doesn't.
So your headset is actuallystill moving a little bit, even
though you've tensioned itproperly.
There's the surfaces aren'tperfect, there's you know, shiny
parts and not so shiny parts,and and things are just kind of
moving, and the grease kind ofgets rid of the vibration sound
that comes out of that.
And so greasing it it helpsthat.

(25:42):
And of course the ball bearingsin the headset bearings needs
to be in there because theyheads I was about to say
something.
Oh, they get hot.
They don't.
Headset bearings never spinenough to get hot, but uh in in
the headset itself, it justkeeps them quieter, and the
balls don't skip, which causesknurling and which can cause

(26:03):
pitting and and things likethat.
You said balls.
Yep, yeah.
And dude, you don't want pittedballs.
Nobody wants pitted balls.
Yeah.
And you don't want your ballskipping.
Uh uh, no matter what you say,and what she may say, you don't
want skipping balls.
Don't let your balls getskipped.
Oh god, oh god, oh god.
Actually, I meant to do thisone.
Oh, yeah, that's better.

(26:24):
That's better.
Um so uh grease is uh somethingthat can help diagnose.
So if you're seeing a headsetlike if you're really getting a
creek and you can't figure outwhy, if you pull the headset
apart and look at it and there'sminimal grease in there,
sometimes just greasing ithelps.
Josh
looking to my left and I seethree different types of grease.

(26:46):
Dane
Okay, so I have two types ofgrease, and that's that's what I
was gonna tell you.
Is uh so what Josh is lookingat in the shop, we have three
tubs.
One is slick honey, one is parkuh bicycle grease, and the
other one is called finish linefiber grip.
Oh, that's that's the uh okay,fiber grips fiber grips for
carbon.
Yep, exactly.
Josh
Not a grease.
Not a grease.

(27:06):
I know, I know.
So I am on the Motorex train.
Sure.
Yeah.
And it's not because Shimano isnow distributing Motorex, and
I'm a Shimano fanboy.
Maybe it is.
Dane
Josh
So they offer three types ofproduct, maybe more, but three
that I've I've procured.

(27:27):
One is bike grease that isclear, one is white grease that
is thicker.
Sometimes lithium bike.
I think so.
And then one is a carbon paste,which I think is what your
finish line.
Yeah.
And then also slick honey witha low viscosity.
Yeah.
So maybe so you know, I'vewatched uh G Miller.

(27:48):
Have you ever watched G Miller?
Okay, so G Miller is on um onYouTube.
Okay.
And he this is like where I'velearned to build bikes, is
really watching G Miller.
Okay.
So he does these like 30-minutedream bike builds.
Dane
Josh
Well, he has done them in thefields and stuff occasionally.

(28:09):
Does he give the bikes away?
He does.
Dane
Josh
of his.
To try to win one.
I've had good luck with withother other other you know,
giveaways or raffles.
But um, so I watch him, and fora while Motorex was his like
sponsor.
Yeah, yeah.

(28:30):
Yeah.
And so he had Motorex, I boughtall the Motorex.
By the way, if you like, ifyou're interested in, if you
like this podcast, you'llprobably like G Miller's.
It's like it's ASMR, he doesn'tsay a word.
Yeah, yeah.
It's all sounds of it.
He just takes 30 to 45 minutesand builds an entire bike every
single step by step.
You watch everything he does.

(28:52):
Uh, you don't see the problemsthat he has.
I'm sure he cuts that shit out.
Yeah, it all looks like it'sthe perfect seamless build.
Bullshit G Miller.
It's never a perfect build.
Dane
like, yeah, but no, it's notlike that.
Josh
understand slick honey is likeinside suspension products,
inside dropper posts, like whenyou really need high uh high

(29:13):
viscosity or low viscosity.
Dane
thing in the suspension is thatslick honey dissolves in oil.
So if it is in the fork andthere's valves, it will not clog
the valves.
If you put a waterproof greaseon uh that grease can float
through the oil and thenpossibly.

(29:34):
So it's good to use slick honeyinside the Yeah, that's one of
the things that I use todifferentiate slick honey from
something else.
Josh
Using the Motora X example, andmaybe it's like kind of like a
standard bike grease, like thatpark stuff that you have right
there, which I have at the houseas well.
And this thicker, I think it'sa lithium based white.
Yeah.
Like where do I use the bikegrease and where do I use the

(29:57):
lithium grease?
Dane
You are God the most consumerconsumer I've ever talked to.
Like like you just you see someguy in a field dealing a bike.
I don't know any better, man.
You're like, I don't know.
What grease is he using?
Because it must be the best.
And I'm like, no, he's probablyusing it because they gave it
to him.
I know.
Josh

(30:17):
I know they sponsored him.
I know.
Dane
Josh
Dane
So let me explain though thedynamic between us because one
of the reasons I think peoplelike these is that you're smart
and I'm an idiot.
No, no, it's not.
Actually, in fact, I have tolike I have to be careful
sometimes because I am cheap.

(30:38):
I'm genuinely a cheap person.
I don't like to spend moneyjust to spend money.
I really want value.
I'm I'm very oriented.
And sometimes I have toremember that it's not my wallet
making the decision.
It's like I'm cheap too.
So if you tell me that I don'tneed to buy Motor X, I won't.
You think you're cheap.
You're cheap, like you you arewilling, like here's it, here's

(31:00):
what it is.
Oh, okay.
This is coming out.
This is coming out right now.
Josh
Dane
to save money, but you are notwilling.
You are very willing to spendmoney on something thinking that
it will get you performance.
Like like I you That's thedefinition of the ignorance

(31:22):
right there.
So you won't you won't splurgeand get XTR for yourself because
you don't feel like you deserveit, and you do, but you'll go
out and spend way more money ona grease that has little to no
effect on your performance.
Josh
any better.
Yeah.
So you're the fucking expert,bro.
So educate me, man.

(31:44):
Like what grease do I not needto buy motor racks?
Like, what should I be buying?
Dane
thing with our mechanics, witheverybody, understanding what
that product is meant for, does,and how it reacts with stuff is
the value that you need tohave.
Josh
Dane

(32:04):
makes a nice bike, uses thisproduct, if he uses that, that's
great as long as that productis proper for that.
And then you keep in mind thatthat product may be there
because it's product placement.
Literally.
Yeah.
Josh
Dane
Yeah, but um, and I have noproblem with Motorex, they make
awesome stuff.

(32:25):
Uh if I get park grease,there's gonna be somebody out
there who's like, Park grease istrash.
I would never use that.
Uh you know, when I'm puttingit on a bolt and it just needs
to make that bolt move throughthe threads and get to a certain
torque, I don't need to getbougie with my grease, you know.
If I'm buying- So is Motorexbougie grease?
It's not necessarily bougie,but I don't I I've had mechanics

(32:48):
who will come in to work andthey're like, you need to have
this grease.
And I'm like, eh, do I?
You know, you're building a$300 comfort bike.
Should I go to Harbor Freightand get some grease?
Like, well, so here I'll giveyou an example.
I have uh bearing grease at myhome, you know, for packing
bearings in my um trailer, in mytrailer wheels, which I go and

(33:10):
pack those bearings and keepthose bearings cool.
That's its job.
It's super thick and supersticky, so that when you drive
in the rain and you go throughpuddles, it doesn't come out.
Right.
It's I know its function.
It's god awful smelling, itsmells so petroleum and is
nasty, you know.
I won't put it on a bikebecause I don't like the smell.
You know, packing that stuff ina bearing and a bike, I do

(33:34):
understand that it is so uh I Imaybe use a viscous.
Is it is viscous the thesticky?
I'm not sure I understand that.
Is the stickier less vis?
Yeah, I think it's viscous.
It's so viscous that it canactually cause uh drag.
Yes.
Josh
Dane
Yep.
But you don't want the theslick honey in your bearings

(33:56):
because it will wash out so mucheasier.
So there's a point where youfigure out what is the best use.
And so there was this uh Ican't remember who made it, rock
and roll may have may have madeit that this kind of web grease
that was really cool.
You'd stick your finger in it,you'd pull your finger out, and
it would have this long stringyweb.
Now I'm not kidding.
I'm not kidding.
I have a really dirty comment tomake, but I'm just gonna leave

(34:17):
that alone.
Keep going.
But people got really into thisgrease because the marketing
people were like, check out thisweb.
And I'm like, what is the webdoing?
Like I is it making it addingto the performance?
Yeah, is the bearing workingbetter?
Like, is you know, what is it?
And and and people sometimesget really, really, really
caught up in the smallestdetails that don't matter too

(34:38):
much.
If I'm buying, I I I use Maximagrease in suspension.
Uh they have a waterproofgrease, it's good stuff.
I think one of my suppliers forsuspension was using it, and so
I just picked it.
I didn't really But isn'tMaxima kind of bougie?
It's uh it absolutely.
And and I don't use the partgrease because it's a little
more bougie, but it's also uh alittle more waterproof, and I

(35:02):
use it in a way that'sdifferent.
So like I use it for a lot ofthe non-moving parts uh to seal
in air and to seal it.
Josh
the motorex yet.
You're not wrong.
You're not wrong.
Dane
caught up in the differences issometimes point of diminishing
returns.
Like good grease is good greaseas long as you're using it

(35:22):
properly.
And when we were talking aboutcreeks and stuff, you know, an
example, an extreme example ofsomebody not understanding is
I've taken a bike and itsheadset's not functioning
correctly.
I pull it apart and it's fullof friction paste.
Friction paste, not kidding.
And and this was an open ballbearing.
Um bearing balls.

(35:44):
Josh
Dane
So just for people who maybedon't hear these terms, open
ball means that the balls areopen.
I guess that'sself-explanatory.
Um but you have to kind of putgrease in and kind of pack them
in.
And they that's a differentsystem than a lot of bikes have
what's called sealed bearing.
And sealed bearings, thebearings themselves have uh like

(36:06):
seals over them that keep thegrease that came from the
factory in there.
Open ball, you have to packthem.
They often come in dry and youhave to put grease in them.
Somebody had put, you know, notnot at the bike shop, but a
consumer, had put uh frictionpaste.
Friction paste comes in a tub,it's sitting right next to our
other ones.
It looks just like the samething.
We use a little Oh, it's clear,right?

(36:28):
Well, it it depends on thebrand.
Um, but what it is is it's atransfer solution which is kind
of grease-like with usually somesort of media.
Yeah.
And that media in most cases iskind of a like a little tiny
plastic balls.
Super tiny.
And if you rub it between yourfingers, it feels almost like
sandpaper.
And what this stuff does isthose little balls create more

(36:52):
pressure and can tighten andhold something from slipping.
And it's used primarily incarbon fiber and and interfaces
that tend to have a smoothsurface and you don't want them
to move.
It's not a lubrication.
Uh the the transfer solution iskind of like a lubrication, but
it would be di defeat thepurpose to put something that

(37:12):
makes things move easier in acarbon bar that you're trying to
not get slip, you know.
Josh
stuff on my fingers and nowI've You need a rag.
Dane
I got one.
Yeah.
Um, so so you know, in thatcase, you know, that is a clear
situation where you did not knowwhat you were doing.

(37:32):
If you get Maxima Grease orMotorex or Park and you're um
putting it in, you know, yourheadset bearing, your cartridge
headset bearing to keep the twometals from making noise when it
creaks, they're all gonna work.
It doesn't matter.
You can get the one that smellsthe best.
Josh
answered my fucking questionfrom the beginning.
Dane

(37:54):
when do I use the clear grease?
That's what I'm saying is somecompanies really try and get you
to buy three things.
And sometimes those things.
Well, you want to make sure Istill buy slick honey.
Josh
got it, because that's a lowthat's a super low viscosity.
Yeah.
But this thick so so okay, whenI watch G.
Miller, here's I see him usingthe thicker grease, the white

(38:19):
grease for Motorex.
Yeah.
And I don't think he's usingMotorex anymore, by the way,
just for the records.
It probably somebody else paysthem differently.
Somebody else is paying themdifferent.
So I see him using that on likethe headsets.
Dane
So things that don't have a lotof rotation.
There you go.
So that is a surfacelubrication.
And so, and then in most cases,those lubes are fairly

(38:42):
waterproof.
Okay.
So, like that maximum I use isthat.
That maxima that I use forthose surface surface
lubrication is not good inbearings.
It's not light enough.
Josh
Dane
bearings to reduce thefriction, but you don't want to
use slick honey because it'llflow away too easy, especially

(39:02):
under heat.
And so you may pick a bearinggrease.
Now, can I use park in theheadset?
Yeah.
Can I use park in the bearings?
Yeah, it actually works there.
What I look at is like this onegrease covers a wide range.
So basically, just buy parkgrease well and slick honey for
suspension products.

(39:23):
Josh
your your shop right here, andwhat you have is park grease,
slick honey, and a carbon.
Yeah, what do you transfer?
You call it.
Dane
BBs.
So that's what you guys areusing.
Yeah, yeah.
And and we have now I have likefor DT hubs, I have a special
grease.

(39:43):
They call it DT special.
Oh, for Christ's sakes.
And they've formulated it towork the best.
Now, if I'm at a race and Idon't have that, I'll probably
put slick honey in there andI'll tell the guy, hey, this is
gonna be fine.
You're gonna be faster, butyou're gonna need to service us
when you get done with the race.
Josh
related question.

(40:04):
Do you have to get home earlytonight?
No.
Because I'm gonna hunt thatfucking cricket when we get done
with this podcast.
Because that cricket's gonna,if uh hopefully this audio
sounds awesome.
Dane
and I'm like super happybecause I know he's he's still
that cricket is gonna die.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna get that cricketbecause I can't even hear it.
Josh

(40:25):
cricket sound out of it.
Dane
You can't hear the cricket.
So I can't hear it.
Oh my god.
Because I have that ringing allthe time.
Josh
Dane
other people.
Josh
Yeah.
And we're 40 minutes in, bro.
I told you.
I don't think we're gonna getall of the first questions with
the grease.
Dane

(40:45):
Grease is important.
It's not as important as amarketing department has made
you feel.
So, yes, you can get a bettergrease for each application.
Okay.
You don't need to stress.
Josh
transfer solution.
Those are the three they callthat uh fiber grip or fiber grip

(41:06):
or carbon assembly or carbonpaste is how what I know about.
Dane
So those are the three keyelements.
Those are what we use the most.
We have something to quietthose metal surfaces or or
surfaces, we have something thatcan go in the bearings, and
park does both those jobs prettygood.
Josh
Dane
Okay, so just just for thelisteners.

(41:26):
And then slick honey will useuh slick honey gets used a lot
in hubs, to tell you the truth.
We use it in a lot of hubs.
That makes sense.
Josh
Okay, so just you know, for ourlisteners in the guru bike
service department, which iswhere we're at right now.
Yeah.
Finish line, carbon paste, slickhoney, and the basic park

(41:47):
grease is what is what is whatis what they use.
Dane
We have a drawer each each itemthat we work on, if it if there
is a special grease that weneed to have it, we have You
just fucking told me I don'tneed special grease, and now
you're saying you do.
Sometimes I I'll I'll give youan example.
Mavic Mavic um had a free hubbody system for a long time that

(42:11):
used a bushing instead of abearing.
They had one bearing on theoutside and the inside was a
bushing.
And Mavic really had uh theywanted you to use an oil.
In fact, a lot of times in arace situation, you don't have
all the special stuff and youhave to make something work.
And the Mavic race mechanicswould use Shimano mineral oil
that's in their brakes, and theywould use that to lube those

(42:33):
hubs.
And if you put a grease in thathub, it would mess it up, it
would not work right.
And so there's a certaincircumstances where it is
important we at this shop,because we're pro-level, we will
pay attention to that, but wedon't geek out too bad.
And we, you know, if if I'mbuilding a huffy or rebuilding a

(42:54):
huffy bottom bracket, I'm gonnause park because it's cheaper.
Josh
most part, with uh with a fewexceptions, are not like
rebuilding hubs, are not redoingtheir own suspension.
Dane
I you know for fuck's sake.
I honestly I'm an idiot.
I'm an idiot then.
Well, uh, you're not, you'renot, but so much is available
and people can do so much ontheir own.

(43:15):
And one of the things that Ithink makes this format like us
talking about these bike shopsecrets, is the amount of people
out there that are like, ooh,this will help me maintain my.
Josh
Motor X, don't buy the specialshit.
Nope, that's not true.
All you need is D3, unless youhave one of these 757 specific

(43:37):
circumstances, then you gottause Shimano Mineral Oil.
Dane
I've said, don't stress outlike Josh.
I'm getting the perfect I'mgonna have a fucking heart
attack over here or the rightlubricant to use.
Try and get an appropriategrease for how you're gonna use
it if you're if you're gonna dothat.
And I'd say this applies to bikemaintenance and your sex life.

(43:59):
And the amount of people maybeand the amount of customers I've
had come in with like a pilefull of parts in a rag that have
like I don't know what to do atthis point.
And the that smell of thatbearing grease that I told you
about that I have for my axlebearings, yeah, is like all over
it.
And I'm like, oh yeah, you weretrying.
Josh

(44:21):
Croto for every time I bring ina pile of parts.
And the only reason I don'tbring into guru, by the way, is
you're 45 minutes from my house.
Five minutes.
He's fantastic.
He's awesome.
Mechanic.
Okay, let's get back to thelet's get back to the creeks.
So the single question.
Dane
hardest part.
Finding it is the hardest part.
Josh
Let me let me keep going, man.
Let me keep going.
So I talked about the the tiresand the making for the hubs.

(44:43):
Next thing I move to is theseat.
Yeah.
Because very frequently, it'sliterally like the collar, not
the collar, but the seatconnection to the rails.
What's that called?
Dane
Rail seat connection.
The rail seat connection.
Those metal rails go usuallyinto a plastic pocket.
Josh
Dane
Um, sometimes you can just dropa little lube in there and

(45:06):
can't you sometimes just tightenit?
Um, well, when we're talkingabout the rails of the saddle.
Yeah.
This is what I do is tightenit.
I'm learning now that thismight not be the right thing.
Keep going.
So we may not be talking aboutthe same thing.
Uh, we're talking about therails of the saddle interfacing
with the actual plastic part ofthe saddle.
Josh
the seatpost.

(45:26):
Dane
So in in our case, if we findit's there, we usually pull it
apart, grease everything, torqueit, torque it, and put it back
together, and that usually willtake care of it.
But the really annoying one isthat saddle rail where it goes
into the plastic can squeak.
And then every time your hipsshave change, you know, shift
while you're pedaling, you getthis, you know, and it drives

(45:50):
people insane, and they'vealready done all the greasing of
the bolts and and stuff, and itends up being the saddle, and
sometimes you can fix it with alittle bit of lube in those
little pockets.
Um, sometimes it doesn't work.
Josh
the pedals, and I will make surethe pedals are not and maybe
it's because of the pet kind ofpedals I use, but oftentimes

(46:12):
they'll develop play where thepedals will start to like so
that what I'm hearing from youis that you just randomly start
messing with the bike.
Dane
no, no.
So obviously I try and narrow itdown with the sound.
Josh
So like I will pedal.
Do I hear it when I'm pedaling?

(46:32):
Yes.
Perfect.
Holy shit.
Yeah.
I've got one thing righttonight.
Dane
about um w what we do totroubleshoot or or diagnose.
Yeah.
Um, so one is does the soundonly show up when you're
pedaling?
Right.
Yeah.
That is stuff.
Josh
bounce on the bike.

(46:53):
Yep.
I'll do it standing first.
Do I hear it?
Do I hear it when I'm pedaling?
Do I hear it when I'm okay?
Yes, I hear it when I'mpedaling.
Dane
trail.
Yeah.
Josh
when I'm standing up and justlike not pedaling, but like
bouncing the bike?
Yep.
And then the second thing I dois sit down.
And do I hear it when I'msitting down and not pedaling?

(47:15):
And all those things kind ofhelp help me narrow it down to
like where it might be.
Dane
things like, is it in only onegear?
Is it in all the gears?
Yes.
Is it rhythmic with your pedal?
Or is it you can pedal a coupletimes and then it comes around
and then a couple more times andit comes around?

(47:36):
Because that could be thatcould tell you that it's not the
crank, maybe it's in the chain.
Um, so and then, yeah, so theseare all things you can do on
the bike, which are reallyhandy.
And and in fact, we ask ourcustomers sometimes when we're
chasing down creeks, and we, youknow, it's very common somebody
comes in and goes, Yeah, I gotthis creek, I need you help
with.
Okay, no problem.
What where's it at?

(47:56):
Well, it's right around the thebottom bracket area, but it
only comes 20 miles into theride.
We're like, uh okay, I can'ttake it for a 20-mile ride.
Josh
Dane
There is times when I have donethat.
There are times when I'mchasing a creek where I've
driven to like a hill to try andsimulate what the customer is

(48:20):
having.
Josh
your bike shop, remember thisepisode, right?
Dane
to the trail uh because theyjust we cannot duplicate it in
the parking lot.
And that does happen.
And so when you're on the bikeand it's happening, you're
registering things and goingthrough these things, like

(48:40):
basically trying to figure outdoes it happen in every gear?
Does it happen only when youpedal, when you don't pedal,
when you're standing, whenyou're sitting, when you're
turning, you know, only whenit's going through a rough
compression or not.
You know, those are things thatreally help the bike shop
figure out, kind of narrow itdown.
Listening, you know, it seemslike it's coming from the back.
Sometimes it'll be in thefront, and and there's nothing

(49:03):
you can do about it.
It still sounds like it'scoming from the back, or vice
versa, because it'll vibratethrough the frame.
Josh
Dane
anyone advice if they're gonnago into a bike shop, be careful
uh not to go in and say, I needa new bottom bracket, it mines
creaking.
And I will tell you that youyou want to help that bike shop

(49:27):
know what the problem is, butdon't assign it to something
because sometimes mechanics willjust go, he said new bottom
bracket, and then they'll justput a bottom bracket in.
And then if your creek didn'tgo away, you're in a in a tight
spot.
Yeah, you know.
Well, you got a new bottombracket and you still have a
creek.
And I've had that happen to meat automotive shops where I'm
like, I got a death wobble, Ithink it's a tie rod, I get the

(49:49):
truck back with the new tie rod.
Still got that death wobble.
And I'm like, shit, I shouldhave said, can you fix the death
wobble and then let them figureit out.
Josh
anything, anyone that's takenanything to a mechanic.
Like, here's the symptoms.
Yep, yeah.
You help me figure out you'rethe expert, you help me figure
out what this what the solutionis.

(50:10):
Dane
um a lot of customers don'trealize or don't really, you
know, it's kind of the um doctoreffect that you just you watch
so many shows where the doctorsjust figure it out and fix the
person that you think that's howit happens and and it doesn't
By the way, there's trial anderror in doctors too.

(50:30):
Yeah.
And very often creaks are verydifficult to find, and sometimes
you'll have three of them, andwe can fix one of them, and then
maybe not hear the other onethat you heard on the trail.
So if you get frustratedbecause that happens, work with
the mechanic and let them know.
Do those small littletroubleshooting things on the

(50:50):
trail to kind of identify thesymptoms.
Josh
sitting, pedaling whilestanding, just kind of like
going downhill and like susplike cycling the suspension
while standing, heartcompressions and then cycling
the suspension while sitting,and then notating when do you
hear that.
Yep.
Is there anything other thanthose kind of like four

(51:12):
different use cases that thatthey can do to help you?
Dane
Though, like I said, one of thebig things that we hear come
from the back end of the bike isoften like an axle or
something.
Uh you can sometimes have youryour through axle tight, but you
may actually have a broken axlein the bike.
And I know that I just saidyour axle was tight.
Inside the hub is one axle,which the through axle goes

(51:36):
through, and so you can tightenyour through axle, but that uh
hub axle can actually have acrack or be broken.
And so you've checked your hub,but it's still creaking.
And so sometimes we will grabthe rear wheel and the seat post
and we will kind of just torqueit side to side and try and
develop that that noise.

(51:56):
All those little things thatwe're trying to do to try and
get that noise to come out in anin the environment that we're
at, because sometimes noisesdon't come out in the parking
lot, and and that is the worstbecause then we're chasing a
phantom.
We don't even know what itsounds like, and we're trying to
figure out what it is.
And those are the hardest onesbecause then you start throwing

(52:17):
parts at it, and that can bereally frustrating and
expensive.
And um, in in our shop, weteach a philosophy of trying to
do the smallest things first, sothe least expensive things
first.
Yeah.
Well, uh a good example is ifyou're can't get it quite and
you the bottom bracket isintrusive.
You gotta pull the cranks, thenyou feel the bottom bracket and

(52:40):
somehow can determine whetheror not it's making noises by how
smooth it is.
It's not always the case.
And sometimes the bottombracket bearings are fine, but
the cup itself is making thenoise, and it's very hard to
figure out.
But the first thing you can dois swap the pedals to a set of
test ride pedals and go ride it.
Because a lot of times it canbe the pedals.

(53:00):
Josh
like, you just do fucking randomstuff.
Dane
You weren't looking for wherethe noise is.
I was, you know, you went I Iskipped that whole preamble.
You kind of want to narrow itdown where the area is.
Yeah.
Um, we've had creaks that arein the person's shoe.
Josh
Dane

(53:22):
noise, never hears it.
The guy picks the bike up, saysthe mechanic's like, I can't
hear it.
It's you know, I'm it's fine.
And the guy goes outimmediately, has a creak and is
mad at the mechanic.
And the mechanic didn't haveany way to have the shoes.
Yeah.
And so that can happen.
And so we teach, you know, youcan swap the pedals, there's
it's five minutes, and it'ssuper easy to do and do a test

(53:43):
ride.
Did the noise go away?
You know, if that did, you knowit's the pedals.
Yeah.
Before we start tellingcustomers they need parts, we do
everything we can to not needparts.
And so let's say a bike is uh,you know, we think it's in the
rear wheel, you know, but wedon't know.
And before I go disassemblingeverything, maybe I'll take a

(54:04):
wheel off of a floor bike andput it on that bike and go ride
it.
Did the did the noise go away?
I can kind of narrow down thatit if it went away, it was
probably in the wheel, and thenI need to focus my attention
there, even though the guy camein and says my bottom bracket's
making a creak.
Josh
Can it ever be in thedrivetrain?
Dane

(54:25):
Like it can be everywhere, andthat is.
Josh
drivetrain, what I found is thatthe rear-der mount into the
frame is loose.
Dane
The hanger.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I had a bike that I servicedevery pivot on that bike, and it
still had a creek, and then Ifound it was the hanger needed

(54:48):
to be greased.
And it was like the easiestjob, and I had spent all this
time.
And it was my own bike, youknow.
Right?
Perfect.
And um, and it it's sofrustrating, and that definitely
happens.
The the easy ones sometimestake so much time.
The other thing that you haveto remember in the bike shop is
that this is time consuming, andso there is a charge for that.

(55:10):
And even if you might find itfast, but it might take you six
hours.
Yeah, and and the bike shopsstruggle.
Like, I every bike shop I'veever been at, as an employee, as
an owner, as a whatever, youname it, we have never been
like, oh, I I can't wait tocharge for this.
We don't like charging.

(55:30):
I know that sounds weird.
Uh, but we don't actually likecharging for a lot of the stuff.
We want to make it quick andeasy, we want to make it
efficient.
So, how do you charge for acreek?
Is it diagnostic?
Is it time?
Is it it's it's it's you guyshave a creek price?
Yeah, that well, we doactually.
And and and it varies from bikeshop to bike shop and their
history and their frustrationlevel with creeks.

(55:53):
Josh
Dane
we see the bike, if we do acouple quick things,
troubleshooting, and we can kindof identify the area pretty
quick, we tend to have like baselevel prices because we kind of
pretty sure what it is.
Josh
Dane
area.
I'm gonna pull your crank,tighten, or or check your

(56:15):
bearings, and I'm gonna maybecheck your chain ring to crank
interface.
Sometimes that can make anoise.
Um I'm gonna look for anythingthat that is obvious, put it
back together with grease.
So I'm gonna charge you forthat that labor, and then I'm
gonna test ride it.
And if that test ride has fixedit because it just needed a
little love, then you're golden.

(56:36):
But if it's still there, thenI'm gonna go deeper, and then I
may suggest you get a bottombracket because it could be the
bottom bracket needs to bereplaced.
And on some bikes, you can pullthe bottom bracket out of the
bike, grease threads, and put itback in, and not have to to get
a new bottom bracket.
Other bikes, uh, press fit inin most cases, are very

(56:58):
difficult sometimes to removeintact.
And so sometimes you arepounding them out of the bike.
Josh
plastic shell, there's a goodchance that they could get
damaged.
You're gonna have to put a newone in.
Dane
pull them out, maybe putting alot of pressure on the bearing.
And so sometimes you just can'tsave that bearing.
Yep.
And so then the customer isgetting a new bearing and

(57:19):
they're paying for it, and itmay not have fixed the creek.
And that's the those are thehardest choices.
Josh
listen, yeah, yeah, we gottareplace this bottom bracket.
We're not sure this is gonnafix it.
But yeah, that's the whether wewhether we fix it or not,
you're gonna have to pay for thebottom bracket.
Dane
some of our customers are like,I don't care, do whatever you
need to do.
Fix the fucking creek.

(57:39):
Yeah, and they're they're like,I that that's fine.
They trust us, they've hadexperience and they've they've
we've built that trust.
Other customers don't know andhave a distrust or a natural
distrust of mechanics, whichdefinitely So this isn't like
it's never, at least not withguru bikes, that you're screwing
them.
No.
Josh

(58:00):
Dane
time the mechanic spends on acreek what we charge, you're
probably losing money.
We lose money.
Yeah.
It's almost always.
Josh
to adjust your pricing.
Dane
not everything that thatcustomer is gonna need through
their lifetime.
Josh

(58:21):
Dane
We try to, yeah.
And and most of our customers,we've developed a relationship
where we talk to them and we letthem know what's going on, and
we involve them in what we'redoing so that they don't feel
um, you know, like it's amystery.
And that way they can empathizewith the time we're spending,
and they also know that we'renot trying to just you know make

(58:45):
a quick butt about.
Josh
Okay, can it also be in thebraking system?
Dane
So uh you can have loose rotorbolts, you can have a center
lock rotor uh that's loose, youcan have um caliper issues, uh,
you can have you know sometimeswhen you put the brakes on, it
will activate the suspension.

(59:05):
And so it can actually be asuspension pivot or or bearing,
but it only comes up when youput the brakes on.
When you put the brakes on.
Yeah.
And so the you know, also whenyou put the brake on on the
front, you may hear a creak, butit may be be your headset.
You know?
And and so Jesus, man.
I know I it I told you this isthe hardest thing in the bike

(59:26):
shop.
Josh
questions, I'm like, we mightonly get through the first one,
and guess what?
Dane
today.
Creeks are I so the the ourworst case scenario is we have
to let a customer know that it'sa shop rate.
And shop rate is when you justhourly.
Yeah, well, you tell thecustomer this is how much we

(59:46):
charge per hour, and if it takesme one hour, you get charged
that.
If it takes me two hours, ityou get double that, you know.
And um we don't like thatbecause it's such a mystery to
the customer.
Josh
Dane
creek.
And so but it's not a thousanddollars.
No, no, but sometimes thecustomer will jump to like the

(01:00:08):
wrong conclusion if you say shoprate.
And so we do a lot of we useour experience and knowledge to
kind of help narrow it down andtry and try and help them.
We also sometimes will say,hey, we don't know how long this
is going to take.
This is our shop rate.
This is what we charge.
At what point do you want me togive up?
Because there are times whenthere is a creek that we just

(01:00:30):
can't find.
Josh
dollars budgeted for thissolution.
Yeah.
If you get above 400 bucks,stop.
Dane
We've had um we've had a bikecome in and it had a creek, and
the guy had the suspension done.
He put different wheels on it,he had all the bearings done.
Like he could not find thecreek.

(01:00:50):
And did he light the bike onfire?
He bought a new bike.
I'm not kidding.
He literally bought it.
He lit the bike on fire.
And we the whole way we we werethere for him to try and help
figure this out.
Yeah.
But it was so frustrating.
He never figured the creek out.
We uh that you know what thatbike is in my garage.
I I bought it from him.

(01:01:10):
Josh
I'm gonna give it, I'm givingDane a fist bump over here.
We're looking after hiscustomers.
Dane
that bike.
Josh
Can I get a good deal?
Is it an extra large?
Dane
It's a Fazari, and I would saywhat size is it?
A medium.
Let's talk.
Yeah, yeah.
I'll make you a screaming deal.
I'll take it.
You may have a creek.

(01:01:31):
Yeah.
It's just what what can it bein the wheels?
Anywhere.
It can be spokes.
We've had a creek.
Yeah.
No, but it can be in your hub.
It can be in your so Mavic hadthis issue, and this is no joke.
Uh there's a slug.
When they bring the aluminumaround and weld it together in

(01:01:54):
the hoop, they often will pin ittogether.
I've heard this.
And there's a little piece ofmetal in there that when they
pin it kind of supports it fromso they don't dent it.
Yes.
And then they go weld it andthen machine it.
That slug would come loose.
I've heard that.
So so Croto had to fix one ofthose in one of my wheels.
It's hilarious.
And it'll make this tick noise.

(01:02:15):
Yes.
And it's like, what the hell isthat?
Tick, tick.
Oh, it'll drive tick.
Oh my god.
Now see, now that's a clearexample where the mechanics
experience can skip the line.
We can go, I know what that is.
By the way.
Yeah.
And then uh we stick a littleexpanding foam in there, or you
drop some gorilla glue orwhatever it is to get that slug

(01:02:37):
not to move.
Yep.
And uh you just get it to notmove.
Uh in fact, there was a timewhen you Mavic would tell us to
use a punch.
Josh
punched it to like kind of re-to re-tension that slug.
Yes.
Dane
loose again.
So and and you know, who knows?
I I'm sure a million peoplehave great luck with that.

(01:02:59):
We just found that we didn't,and so we found a different way.
We actually used expandingphone, it worked really good.
Um, but uh the that will drivea new mechanic that didn't go
through that decade of workingon that bike, and they're gonna
go insane trying to figure thatthing, you know, because Mavic's
barely an entity anymore, andgetting somebody to give you

(01:03:20):
advice about it is hard.
You know, you need a mechanicthat uh has experience.
So so yeah, there's there's alot of stuff.
Josh
Dane
Josh
it's not related to your bike,not related to your shoes.
My knees.
It's not your knees, although Iknow your knees are creaking.
Oh god, yeah.
They just pop.
I'm really interested in whatyou say, because Pink Bike's got

(01:03:42):
a theory on this, or at leastone of them does.
Okay.
What about the creek in yourfull face fox helmet?
Oh god.
I don't use fox helmets.
Um have you do you know whatI'm talking about?
Dane
So when you like turn your headand it's like I don't have that
issue.
Um remember, I'm way moretolerant of noises.

(01:04:03):
Uh my helmets I have a hundredpercent, I have Pac, and then I
have Jiro.
And those are all I I don'thave anything that does that.
But usually that's in mostcases, there's levels of foam
and plastic, and something'smoving against it.
Josh
to say this.
Consumer focused.

(01:04:24):
I go to the the what's it uhVermont Technology helmet
testing.
Yeah.
I look at their top ten.
Is it Virginia?
Virginia Tech Virginia Tech.
Virginia Tech helmet testing.
I look at the top ten helmetsthat they've rated, and I pick
one of those for whateverdiscipline I'm doing.
Yep.
This is why I have the helmetevery helmet I have is on that
list.
That's why I have them.

(01:04:45):
Dane
it skip the line.
You're not doing a deepresearch on every single brand.
No, you're just looking at ametric that makes that's
important to you and thatsafety.
Josh
gotta quote him, is that he justputs olive oil inside the
helmet.
Oh, okay, and that solves thehelmet creak sound.

(01:05:08):
Huh.
I've never done it.
I'm gonna try it.
Does yours creak?
Mine creaks like amotherfucker.
I've got the Fox like top ofthe line pro downhill helmet.
I want to try your helmet onnext time at your house.
I want to see.
Well, my head's much biggerthan yours.
Dane
yours.
Well, yeah, but one thingthat's not.
Um but yeah, your feet arehuge.
Big, not baby feet.

(01:05:29):
Uh uh.
But um, I I I don't know ifI've I'll have now I'm gonna
stick my helmet on.
I'm gonna get home, stick myhelmet on the shit.
Just go like this, shake in it.
Just shake your head, and if youhear that's what my it drives
me crazy.
I definitely don't hearanything that drives me nuts.
But you have tinnitus, so youmay not hear it.
Yeah, and and my hut my helmetshug my head quite a bit.

(01:05:49):
Like I do too.
A lot of times I think when Iget a new one that I have the
wrong size because it's notquite tight, but pretty.
Josh
Dane
As soon as that foam kind ofbreaks in, it's pretty
comfortable at that point.
But uh when we're fitting newhelmets to people, we have to
warn them hey, it's gonna feellike full face helmet's gonna
feel tight.
It's gonna squish your cheeks,squish your ears.

(01:06:10):
Yeah, you don't want a lot ofspace because you don't want
that slamming into you when youcrash.
Josh
Well, I'm super stoked that wegot through one question of
twenty.
Dane
Josh
stuff.
So keep telling us if you likethis, we'll keep doing this.
Yep.
I'm I'm a little dissatisfiedthat we didn't have a very

(01:06:34):
clear, like concise answer towhat grease you should get.
Not what grease, but like howto fix a creek.
Oh, fuck it.
Dane
right?
It doesn't.
You talk to any bike shop andthey every mechanic winces if
you say you've got a creek.
Like they'll you'll see themget it.
Sometimes it's a visual tickthat they will develop.

(01:06:54):
Josh
Croto, I apologize for every inand by the way, Friday, I'm
coming by to see Dr.
Dane
creek.
You know what I'm gonna do uhI'm on my my YouTube journey is
I'm gonna put in how to fix acreek in YouTube and see how
much bullshit comes up.
Josh
workflows, and you're gonna belike, God damn it, we should

(01:07:16):
have said that.
Dane
sat down and and and and whatabout scripted and scripted.
Josh
before we started.
Dane
But uh, but yeah, it's not aseasy as they make it sound.
All right, brother.
You got any final thoughts forour listeners?
If you have a creek, um, maybeuse some headphones.

(01:07:37):
We've told that to customers.
We've told that too I've donethat person.
I've done that personally.
I'm not even kidding.
Like, maybe you should get it'scheaper.
All right, Dan.
Thank you for your knowledge,buddy.
Thanks, man.