January 14, 2025 • 36 mins
Bonus Episode From the Vault: The #3 Most Downloaded Episode of 2024!
While we’re on a break until Feb 4, we’re bringing back one of your all-time favorite episodes of 2024 from the vault!
This episode dives into the financial options available for pet healthcare, providing actionable insights to help pet parents prepare for unexpected expenses. Join Amy and Jonathan Wainberg, Senior VP of Synchrony Financial Service’s Pet Business, as they discuss strategies like budgeting, CareCredit, and pet insurance, while emphasizing the importance of open communication with veterinarians.
Key Topics Covered:
- Examining the rising costs of pet ownership
- Exploring financing options for pet healthcare
- The role of CareCredit in managing expenses
- Budgeting strategies for unexpected healthcare costs
- The importance of pet insurance as a financial tool
- Communicating financial capabilities with veterinarians
- Resources and assistance available for pet parents in need
- Educational tools to help pet owners prepare for healthcare expenses
Discover how to plan for pet healthcare expenses and ensure your pets get the care they need.
Relevant Links:
- Learn more about Synchrony's Pet Lifetime of Care study: Read the Study Here
- Explore the benefits of CareCredit for pet healthcare: Visit CareCredit
Love the show? Please share it with another pet parent who wants less chaos and more clarity. Please leave a 5-star review to help others find real-life, judgment-free advice.
🎧Get your free guide: 10 Tips for Bonding With Your Pet
Follow:
🌍Official Site |📱Facebook |📺YouTube | 🍏 Apple |🎵Spotify
Big pet challenges we help pet parents solve include: puppy training, cat behavior, pet budgeting, stress-free vet visits, solutions for multi-pet households, and more.
Contact: Amy@muddypawsandhairballs.com
©Ⓟ 2025 by Amy Castro.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
If you've listened to the show in the past couple of
weeks, you know we're taking avery short break here before the
new season of Muddy Paws andHairballs kicks off is very
close to my heart Paying for PetHealthcare where we had
Jonathan Weinberg, senior VicePresident and General Manager
for Pet Co brand at SynchronyFinancial.
Come on the show and talk aboutthe various options that pet
(00:34):
parents have to pay for theirpet's healthcare.
If you've ever had to make atough financial decision for
your pet's health, you know howstressful it can be.
I've been there myself and I'mglad to know that those of you
out there that are listening tothis episode have better options
available to you than I thoughtI had at the time.
So in this episode, jonathanand I discuss how to manage
unexpected health care costs foryour pet and how CareCredit and
(00:54):
other options can offer ahelping hand when you need it
the most.
If you're a pet parent andyou're worried about how to
afford the very best care foryour pet, you're not going to
want to miss this episode.
Stay tuned.
(01:16):
Today I'm welcoming JonathanWeinberg, the Senior Vice
President and General Manager ofSynchronize Pet Business.
Jonathan oversees SynchronizeCare Credit, health and Wellness
credit card program, which is aflexible payment solution for
pet parents that is accepted bymore than 25,000 veterinary
practices in the US.
Jonathan's also a board memberat Independent Pet Holdings,
(01:37):
where he's part of a team thatoversees strategic direction of
multiple pet insurance brands,including Pets Best, aspca, pet
Health Insurance and Spot.
But, most importantly, jonathanis a proud dad and husband and
a pet parent to a mini poodlenamed Maddie, and he joins us
today to talk about helping petparents navigate the rising cost
(01:58):
of pet care and understandtheir financial options when it
comes to getting their pets thevery best care possible.
So, jonathan, thank you so muchfor being here today.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Thank you for having me, amy, and full transparency.
I do have to introduce someoneelse in the room over here, so
hold on.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
For those who are on video, watching us on YouTube
yes, oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
This is the beautiful Maddie Weinberg.
She is a 14-year-old miniaturepoodle.
She is our first child and,most days, our favorite child,
and she's lived in fourdifferent countries with us and
has been to 13 countries.
So she's a real part of thefamily and we kind of joke that
she's the chief pet officer ofSynchrony.
(02:41):
I work for her and she worksfor me, but I kind of feel like
I work for her most of the time.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
There you go.
Yeah, the pet's always at thetop of the food chain.
Absolutely, she's wise, she'sbeen around the world, she's
been around the block and so youknow.
It's interesting.
You say you've had her for 14years and she is your first
child, and my guess would bethat back then the options for
paying for pet care were notanywhere what they are today.
(03:06):
As somebody who is thepresident of an animal rescue,
the ability to pay for the carefor that pet is a huge
responsibility that hangs overmy head every time I face an
adoption situation, especiallywhen you've got somebody that
comes into the situation who isalready concerned about how
they're going to pay theiradoption fee, let alone the
(03:27):
long-term lifetime care costsfor that pet.
So can you just kind of give usan idea of, like what are some
of the options that areavailable?
We did an entire episode on petinsurance and definitely I'm a
proponent of at leastinvestigating those options to
see what might fit for you.
But what other things areavailable to people?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, and you know, I think, amy, it would make sense
for us to start just to sharesome overall, you know, industry
and macro trends to kind oflevel set.
Pet ownership is at an all-timehigh.
In the US, right, abouttwo-thirds of households enjoy
the benefits of sharing theirlife with a pet.
There's a disproportionateamount of first time pet owners
(04:08):
in the market due to, you know,general macro trends that have
been happening, but also becauseof the boom that happened with
the pandemic and peoplebenefiting and seeing all the
better outcomes of when peoplewere locked down, having the
ability to share their life andnot be alone, and also some of
the physical benefits thatpeople saw.
(04:29):
And then the third thing I justkind of point out is there's
been great advances in medicalcare, right for pets over the
past decades and that'saccelerating.
We continue to see that.
So while costs are increasing,so too are our positive outcomes
, right.
But with that comes somechallenges.
More than half of pet parentsunderestimate the cost of caring
for their pets.
Many pet parents, especiallyfirst timers.
(04:50):
They don't know the life cycleof a pet.
They don't know the cost andresponsibilities that come with
that.
You kind of learn that over thecourse of maybe the first pet
you have and living through thatlife cycle, right, and you know
an unexpected expense of youknow you were talking about the
$50 adoption fee, but one of thestudies that we did said
unexpected expenses as little as$250 is enough to trigger
(05:13):
anxiety in that pet parent.
So you know, here's what wealso know Pet parents should
never have to choose betweencost and the care for their pets
, and having a variety offinancial options, which is what
we're going to talk about today, is important, and expecting
what I like to say expectingwhat should not be unexpected,
right, because you knowsomething is going to happen and
(05:36):
that's critical.
And that's where care credit andflexible payment options come
in.
Care credit is a flexible andconvenient payment option.
It's available for pet parentsand it covers just about
everything you could do in a vetclinic.
It also covers in certainboarding and pet hotels and some
grooming locations as well, butthe majority of what we do is
(05:57):
with regards to the healthcare.
Use of the card.
It's accepted in approximately85% of vets in the United States
and it offers flexiblefinancing options, both short
and long term, and it's areal-time application and
approval.
It should take you no more than30 seconds to know if you
pre-qualify without hitting yourcredit rating, and you could do
it either at home, proactively,or you could do it at the vet
(06:19):
office if something unexpectedpops up.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right, especially in, like I said in my experience in
rescue.
We do not just rescue but we doa lot of outreach in the
community and we get calls allthe time from veterinarians who
are like, hey, we've got a dogwith a foreign body and the
owner can't afford what weproject the costs are going to
be.
Is that something that you canhelp with?
And obviously we work withpeople on that, but time is
(06:43):
definitely of the essence.
But surprisingly, we actuallyhad a recent case where, you
know, because that person wasable to get care credit, I
actually had to call the vetafter the fact and say so what
do we owe you?
Like, what was?
What was the final outcome?
And as it turned out, you know,they were covered and they
didn't need to have the moneythat we had set aside for that,
which is great, because now Ican use that for the next animal
(07:04):
that may not be as lucky.
So it was super quick and agreat option for that family.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
That's absolutely right and it's great about
having various nets to catchwhere certain situations happen,
making sure that people don'tfall through the cracks.
It's amazing that we havepeople like you that have
dedicated and have thoseemergency funds, but ideally
people can plan ahead.
So, similar to you you talkedabout, you're a big proponent of
pet insurance, or at leastexamining pet insurance.
(07:34):
And pet insurance is great incertain situations and in other
situations it doesn't work.
Maddie, for instance she's 14years old.
She had pet insurance but thenwe lived abroad and that
insurance didn't transfer withher to where she was and when
she came back she had just anincredible amount of
pre-existing conditions thatdidn't make sense for her to be
insured anymore.
She does have an accident onlypolicy which covers things like
(07:56):
if she were, to God forbid, gethit by a car or hurt her leg or
eat something.
You know that she wasn'tsupposed to, but it doesn't make
sense from a general means.
But generally I'm a bigproponent.
As you said, we used to havePetsFest used to roll up into me
.
It was the third largest petinsurer in the US and credit and
insurance work great together.
Also right, because some of thefriction in the insurance thing
(08:19):
is waiting for thereimbursement right, you're
putting in that claim, but youalso have to have the money
available to pay the vet at thetime of treatment, and so care
credit can help you as you waitfor that reimbursement to come
back.
So those are important thingsand these things work very well
together, and a lot of thestudies we found is that people
that have both care credit andinsurance tend to be some of
(08:42):
your most highly engaged petparents and are looking for the
most optimal care for that pet,and optimal doesn't have to mean
the most expensive.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Right, yeah, it's covering the bases and it seems
like those are kind of two ofthe maybe three bases.
Maybe there's more bases,you'll have to let me know, but
you know.
So you've got the possibilityof insurance that may cover
certain things and may not coverother things.
You've got the care credit tomake sure that the veterinarian
gets paid.
What about just the idea ofbudgeting?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Listen, everyone has to do what's right for them.
What I'd say is we know throughour study Pet Lifetime of Care
that four to five pet owners aregoing to have an emergency at
some point.
Right, and so putting yourselfin the position to anticipate
that you're going to have anemergency is step one.
Right, budgeting is great, butnot everyone is great at it.
Right, budgeting is a greattool, but not everyone is great
(09:31):
at it.
You know, I think, a couple ofthings education, right, know
your breed, dog or cat, or whereyou live and what the general
costs are going to be forcertain things.
That's very important.
I think health savings, highyield savings accounts, health
savings accounts are a great wayto do it.
I think now you know we hear alot about interest rates are
(09:52):
high and stuff like that.
On a negative side, from youknow, mortgage rates and people
trying to borrow, but you knowbanks are vending money at a
much higher rate.
Synchrony is a bank and we havea high yield savings account
and we're offering, I think,just under 5% and that's a great
way to, you know, kind of putthat money in.
It's a great product.
But having something likeCareCredit before you know we
(10:12):
tend to think about it as anemergency product.
Preventative care and yourroutine appointments are running
up to an amount where you couldbenefit from an interest-free
promotion that we offer for ourdeferred financing options.
That's something that peoplecan always take advantage of.
(10:33):
I also think talking to yourvet really understanding some of
those nuances.
I'm going to give you an examplewith Maddie.
She's lived a great life so far,but the longer you live, just
like in humans, things pop up.
Maddie, you know, about threeyears ago, was diagnosed with
Cushing's and that requires notjust medicine but also
regulating her levels right Formaking sure her cortisol levels
(10:56):
and the adrenal glands areoperating at the optimal amount
for her to live that healthylife.
Well, that's one thing that youknow I didn't really realize.
Then, about nine months ago,she got diagnosed with a mitral
valve deficiency which is, youknow, a precursor to the
(11:16):
potential of having congestiveheart failure.
With that she needs to go threetimes a year for an EKG and see
, see as a doggy cardiologistright, which you know a lot of
people didn't know existed untilthey go visit one.
But she gets great care overthere and they work with me to
manage the best way to puttogether what is affordable.
They accept care credit, whichallows me to, you know, take
those expenses and pay them overa much more orderly fashion,
(11:37):
over six months a year or evenlonger.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, and not put yourself in a financial bind by
using a higher interest creditcard Because, just like you said
, interest rates are up.
So if you're using a regularcredit card and you're not
paying that balance because thatcould put you in that situation
, now you're paying a lot ofinterest that you didn't
necessarily need to pay if you'dexplored that other option.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Absolutely Take advantage of.
If someone's offering you sixmonths or a year and you're
paying it on the schedule, it'sa no cost to the cardholder.
It's just such a valuableproduct where things are on the
market now.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, and even if it's not a credit card situation
.
I don't know about youngerpeople I'm old but a lot of
people in my generation are verylike don't use credit if you
don't have to.
You don't use credit if youdon't have to.
Well, if I'm getting zerointerest credit and I'm getting
5% or 4.9% on my savings, whywould I take money out of my
savings?
Take the money out of yoursavings as you're paying your
(12:27):
care credit bill versus.
I mean it just doesn't do themath.
Do the math and figure out whatis the best option for you in
advance.
That's important.
I mean, that's part of beingsmart financially, for sure.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Absolutely, that's my view also, and there are ways
on the CareCredit website foryou to set up for automatic
payments so that you're hittingthat minimum payment and not
accruing interest after thepromotional period.
Right, we make that available,those tools, so that people get
the most out of thosepromotional opportunities little
(13:04):
planning for sure, but it'sdefinitely doable.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You had mentioned and it's interesting you mentioned
because I did look through thelifetime of care document and
you mentioned this idea ofknowing the breed of your pet.
I actually sent a text to myvet because she's also a client
of mine in my consultingbusiness.
I was like, hey, have youthought about offering as part
of your whether it's a wellnessor new client, new puppy,
whatever it is offering thegenetic testing so that people
(13:29):
know what are the potentialissues for their pet?
And then having a discussionwith because I think the
communication with theveterinarian is so important and
being able to talk to a petparent to say here are the
long-term possible may nothappen to your dog because it's
this mix or that mix.
Know, here are the long-termpossible you know may not happen
to your dog because it's thismix or that mix.
But here are some things wemight be facing in the future
(13:50):
and here's how we can betterprepare for those.
Do you find that people aredoing that more, that they're
doing their homework a littlebit on their pets?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I think so.
Listen, I think those DNA teststo learn more about the breeds
are interesting, especially asyou don't necessarily have all
the history about them.
So people are curious.
Oh, I think it's a pit mix ofthis and that, and people want
to know, which is great.
It's taken it to that nextlevel, just like I did an
Ancestrycom test also.
Yeah, okay, it was interesting.
I kind of knew this.
(14:19):
But what are you going to dowith that information and how do
you make that better?
And I think you hit the nail onthe head.
It's really talking to the vet.
Okay, so this is what I have.
This is a miniature poodle.
What can I expect over thecourse of the life?
What do I need to watch out for?
What do I need to budget for?
Vets are.
They're great, right?
They're so dedicated to thewelfare of our family members,
(14:39):
right.
And they bear the burden of alot of those conversations where
someone shows up and can'tafford that vital care or the
optimal care, and so they wantto do as much as they can, but
you're not put in that situation.
That pet is not put in thatsituation and they're not put in
that situation.
So I would say, definitely,talk to them, use those
resources.
(15:00):
They will share with you atreatment plan.
Whether you're paying in normalcredit card, cash or with care
credit, it's all about workingout something that makes sense
ultimately for the pet andsomething that you can afford
over that lifetime.
It's spectrum of care alsoright.
There's no exactly 100% rightor wrong on what is right for
(15:21):
that pet.
So, talking about that withyour vet and understanding the
lifestyle that you live, theresources that you have, work
together to figure out whatmakes most sense for that family
member and how you go about it.
I think that there's a lot ofgreat tools out there and vets
are so generous with their timebecause they care so much about
those outcomes of animals, ofour pet family members, that
(15:43):
they're willing to invest inthat and help you figure that
out.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, you have to open that door to communication
in some instances, because whatI have found not only working
with vets working for vets ininterviewing vets for this show
is that the initial conversationis going to be, in most
instances, the gold standard.
Here is the gold standard ofwhat we can do for your pet, and
(16:07):
if you just nod and smile andsay, okay, they're going to make
the assumption that you havethe finances, that you're not
going to put yourself in thepoorhouse, you're not going to
be pulling from your kid'scollege fund or not being able
to pay your rent.
You have to open that door tocommunication to say are there
alternatives?
Can we do this in stages?
And you know as, just as anexample.
(16:30):
So when my dog, Jack, who was aDoberman Pinscher, got a
hemangioparasitoma, which is avery treatable type of cancer,
but it was on his leg and youknow the standard, it wasn't
even necessarily the goldstandard, but the standard was
to amputate the leg.
And this is where it's soimportant to really think about
just what you said as far asyour lifestyle, the pet itself
(16:52):
and having that communicationwith your vet, is that, knowing
that a Doberman Pinscher carriesa huge percentage of its body
weight on its front leg, knowingthat I had hardwood floors and
he already was having issueswith slipping and sliding on the
floors, it's like, yeah, no, isthere any other option?
And financially it was areverse situation because I
actually went ahead and didradiation therapy on it and I
(17:14):
won't even throw the number outthere because he's going to
choke somebody and that was along time ago too.
But for that dog, thatinvestment to do that treatment
made a whole lot of sense basedon all of the things considered.
I think my vet thought I wasnuts had it been a different pet
and it has nothing to do withloving the pet, more or less
(17:34):
like I had a dog named Coco whowas a miniature pincher.
If she had gotten the same thing, I probably wouldn't have
pursued, for a lot of reasons,that type of treatment, because
that dog, I mean she could haveone leg and she would have
gotten around just fine.
I mean she was just like somuch more agile, didn't have the
problems that he had.
So my point in sharing that isthat it is so important to
(17:55):
really think about the bigpicture, because whatever is
presented to you, although itmight be a good solution, or
even the best solution.
It may not be the rightsolution for you in your 360
degree situation and you have tocommunicate with your vet about
that and be open and honestwith them about it.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Absolutely.
You hit it square on.
It is being realistic aboutwhat you can do, and that
doesn't mean pet ownership isn'tfor you or that you can't
provide a loving and caring homefor that pet.
It's just about you know whatis that spectrum and what does
it make sense in some cases, insome situations, right, and
that's that's where education,knowledge and being realistic
(18:35):
with your vet about, hey, here's, here's where I am, this is
what I budget for and how do wego about doing that is paramount
.
You know, knowledge is power.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Right, I know one of the complaints I see and it's,
of course, it's always the angrycustomer where you see the post
on social media where peopleare complaining about prices of
things, and one in particularthat jumps out to me was a
social media post where somebodywas blasted.
You know, I need a newveterinarian.
This veterinarian wasridiculous.
I brought my two dogs in hereand you know for well checks for
(19:05):
this and that and came out andit was $700.
And I think my first thoughtwas honey, you got off cheap for
that.
But to me it shouldn't havebeen a shock to this person as
to what the cost of care fortheir pet was going to be.
What would you tell pet ownersas far as doing a better job in
communicating with theirveterinarians about the cost of
things before they're down thepath?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, listen, I think even before you bring that pet
into your family, do theresearch.
There's plenty of sites outthere that have estimation of
what procedures cost.
If you go to our lifetime ofcare study, you'll be able to
see what our survey has showed.
Study, right, you'll be able tosee what our survey has showed
(19:46):
what a pet can cost, and youknow, our study determined that
it's about $20,000 to $55,000for a lifetime of a dog.
Now, that's not just vet bills,it's, you know, totality of
everything, but you know that'sit's a big range, which is fine,
but it's those are notinsignificant numbers.
And for a cat, you know between15 and 45,000.
Right, and so I don't sharethese numbers to scare people
(20:09):
away, because I think,ultimately, bringing a pet into
your household and into yourlife has a lot of benefits, but
it's also a covenant.
You're bringing a living beinginto your household and you got
to be able to provide for it,just like you provide for human
household members, right, and soI would say that you should
always have some sort ofwherewithal of what you can
(20:30):
budget for, and I would also saydon't let an emergency come up
on you to the extent you can't.
Like, we said, we know thatthere's going to be surprises,
but how do you prepare for that?
So, whether it's having carecredit before because you can
take advantage of it for yourroutine care, or you're having,
you know other people, whetherit be your family, know that,
(20:51):
hey, if something emergencycomes up, I have the ability to
you know, reach out to you forcertain things, because the last
thing you want to do is, whenthat pet is having an emergency,
is to be thinking about how I'mgoing to pay for it as opposed
to how your pet is doing.
It's already too stressful anevent for you to add that upper
variable which is not going toallow you to think clearly and
(21:14):
be there emotionally for yourfamily and for that pet.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Right, you make a good point about, you know,
communicating with family andfriends.
It's like having those, justlike I always encourage people
to have a plan B for their pet,especially if they're.
When we get younger people,college students, that want to
adopt a pet, I'm always a littleconcerned because that's a very
transitional time in your life.
You're at school, then youmight be living at home, then
(21:38):
you might be getting anapartment, you might be living
with somebody else.
What is your plan B?
Do you have one?
And it's like, if I hear a goodanswer, it makes me feel a lot
more comfortable about the factthat you've taken the time to
think through what mightpotentially happen in your life
and in your situation for thatpet and that the pet has been
considered in those factors.
Because I think too many timesI'm one that gets the calls
(22:01):
every day I don't know 15 or 20calls a day for people
surrendering because I'm movingor I'm doing this or I'm doing
that and it's like really, andoh, by the way, the animal has
to be gone by Friday.
That was the call I the right.
Now French Bulldogs are superpopular, you know.
Obviously I think they're cute.
I would never own one.
I certainly wouldn't buy onefor a lot of reasons, but I see
(22:32):
a lot of people getting intosituations where the hype of
look how cute that is, I see itall over social media.
Now I've got one and I had noidea it was going to have all
these issues and all this cost.
Do you see a lot of that?
And what do we do to remedythat situation, other than tell
people you know, hey, don't getthat pet.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, it's a tough one, right, Because you know
people ultimately make thedecisions that they decide make
sense, right?
You hate to see when, you know,the 101 Dalmatians movie comes
out and suddenly everyone thinksit's cool to have a Dalmatian,
but they don't realize that thatDalmatian has a unique
lifestyle that not all homes arebuilt for and are very active
(23:14):
and need a lot of space andshouldn't be living in you know,
probably an apartment inManhattan.
Right, it's hard, you know youbelieve in the choice that
people should make, but I thinkthat another part of it is
family socialization, Right,what is the right pet for you to
have in a family situation?
There's pets that do muchbetter with kids, and I think
(23:34):
you probably see that a lot, Amy, as well.
Oh, we thought this would begreat for young children and it
turns out, you know, no, it'snot the right mix, Right?
Or, oh, my child's allergic topets.
Well, you know, maybe youshould have got your kid checked
for the allergy of dog or catsbefore you brought a living
being into your house, right?
So it's really tough, butultimately I don't see that
(23:57):
situation going away and I thinkwe're.
You know we're very lucky tohave people like you that
dedicate their you know theirlives or their personal times to
finding places and matchingpeople and all the humane
societies out there and theshelters that are really doing
this really hard work tohopefully find places for when
(24:17):
those pets are just not in theright situation for them.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Right.
I think education and knowledgeobviously is a key to all of
that.
I mean, that's one of thereasons that we're doing this
podcast is like, if we can getthe word out about all the
aspects of life with pets thegood, the bad and otherwise then
people are at least armed withthat knowledge and that
information.
One of the things that I'mfinding veterinarians doing more
(24:42):
and more is that they're notonly giving that initial range
you know, low end, it's going tobe this, high end it's going to
be that but basically you knowdoing a good job of keeping
those lines of communicationopen with the owner as things
start to creep from the low tothe high.
Because I think human nature is, if somebody says it could cost
somewhere between $2 and $5,you're thinking two, because
(25:06):
that's obviously what you'rehoping for.
And when they come back and sayit's going to be five, it's
like well, I thought you saidtwo to five and it's like five
is still five.
Any thoughts on that as far aswhat you've heard or what you're
seeing from the veterinary sideof things and what vets are
doing, so that there's notsurprises when it comes to
paying the bill?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, listen, I think they're sharing treatment plans
right.
So it's showing a range, butit's also showing, as we
discussed earlier, a spectrum ofcare, because there's certain
things that, yes, ideally we allwould have unlimited funds to
spend on that gold level servicethat that pet wants and we all
(25:46):
want to give that family memberthat care.
But the truth is is that insome cases and only the vet
knows best is when is thatreally needed?
And so, understanding with them, hey, I'd love to be able to do
all this, but is theresomething that's going to get me
75% of the way there, that is,45% of the cost and the other
(26:07):
treatments that you have?
Maybe that's something that canfollow in a year when I'm able
to, you know, budget that out orafford it.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Right, yeah, good point.
I know that when I originallytook my bulldog she was having a
lot of problems and I couldtell she had probably done
something to her knee or ACL.
You know, the initial treatmentplan from one practice was to
do a certain procedure thatinvolved cutting bone and screws
and things like that.
It was very expensive, wouldhave done it, except that a
(26:38):
friend had mentioned, you know,oh, when we had the same issue
with our dog, we had this otheroption.
So I explored other options andwent with a different procedure
that has worked out reallyreally well.
It was less invasive and abouta third of the price.
So you know, that's something Ithink people to you know to
talk about alternatives withtheir veterinarians.
I mean, I love my vets and Ilike to keep my business there,
but at the same time I have todo what's going to be not only
(27:02):
the best for my pet health-wise,but what I can afford or what
makes the most sense financiallyfor me too, and I think the
vets understand that.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, I think they do .
I've been fortunate to spend anincredible amount of time with
vets and I know that they putthe health of the pet first, and
so it's in their interest toprovide the pet with the best
options, that pet parent withthe best options for the care of
that pet.
I think that in human healthit's not uncommon to get a
(27:31):
second opinion in certain cases.
Now I'm not suggesting thatpeople shop around like that,
but in certain cases, if youdon't feel comfortable with what
that vet is suggesting whetherit be cost-wise or
treatment-wise you have thatoption at your disposal as well,
and I would think they wouldunderstand that.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Right, there's not always just one way to
accomplish a goal with eitherour human health care or with
our pet's health care.
And so because I might be anorthopedic veterinarian and I do
TPLOs and that's what I do,doesn't mean that it's wrong,
that that's what I offer,because that's what I know how
(28:08):
to do, that's what I'm trainedto do, that's what I do really,
really well, whereas you mighthave somebody over here who you
know and we ended up going tosomebody who was one of the,
like, original people to do thetightrope procedure and that's
kind of what he did.
And so you know it's it's it'sknowing those options.
It was the same thing when Ihad an incident with some horses
and I tore my ACL and the firstphysician that I went to wanted
(28:32):
to do a knee replacementbecause, oh, you're probably
going to need that someday.
I'm like, am I really that old?
But okay, you know, you'reprobably going to need that
someday.
I go to another physician and hehas a completely different
viewpoint on it, and it's not tosay necessarily that one is
right or wrong.
Time will tell right.
But it's what?
Like you said, it could be instages Right now if you're
telling me not to do a kneereplacement and try to do
(28:54):
physical therapy.
I think I'll try that first.
That's okay.
It's just it's options that wehave when we get those other
opinions and usually doesn'thurt anybody's feelings when you
do.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
No, I agree, and it's options and in probably most
cases is which is the rightdecision and maybe which one is
the more right decision or bestright, not necessarily wrong
right and I think it's abouthaving that connectivity of
comfort with that veterinarianand what fits your comfort zone
and what is your ability to youknow, do something at this time,
(29:26):
and they understand it.
It's not as if veterinariansdon't understand.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Right.
So just to kind of startbringing this thing full circle,
beyond the issues of insurance,care credit, you know doing
proper budgeting.
What in your experience, whatother options are out there for
people, whether it's likenonprofits or grants, or you
know what other options are outthere to people?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Of course.
I think and I want to reiterate, I think the first part you
could do is hopefully putyourself in a situation that
that's not needed, right and so,whether it's insurance, whether
it's budgeting, whether it's,you know, care credit, have
something out there that limitsthe necessity of some of the
later stage plans to executeupon, if you will right.
(30:12):
But once you get through thatand people do fall through you
know situations fall through thecracks.
Right, check with your localhumane societies.
They're certainly dedicating alot of time.
There's a lot of organizationsthat are out there
municipalities as well to seewhat programs are available.
There's a lot of traveling vets.
You know services that goaround and, okay, we're doing a
(30:33):
clinic here for the next twodays and we'll see as many pets
as we can.
I'd also add that many vetpractices also have a charitable
fund.
I think when you start gettinginto families and crowdsourcing
GoFundMe, the challenge withthose are that they take time,
and in many of thesecircumstances it's an emergency,
(30:54):
and so that's why it's abouttrying to plan ahead, but have a
list of options that you can godown and if you can't make the
payment or if you can't, thenget care credit if you can't get
the next site, have thoseoptions ready so you're not
panicked.
Remove as much stress as youcan from what is gonna be an
incredibly stressful situation.
Unfortunately, it's a covenantthat you're bringing this living
(31:18):
animal into your lives and theyadd so much to it, and it's our
responsibility to make surethat we're there for them when
they need us the most.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Right, when you mentioned the range of the, you
know, 20,000 to 50-somethingthousand.
You know, even if people wereto think ahead enough to say,
okay, let's take it on the lowend, let's just go with the
assumption that my pet's goingto be a relatively healthy pet
and it's going to liveapproximately X number of years,
I mean, you can do the math onthat because it's interesting
(31:47):
and this is I should know better, right?
But when you threw out that$20,000 number, I was thinking,
ooh, that's a lot of money andthat's the low end.
But if you take that and youdivide that by, let's say, an
animal that lived 20 years, justbecause it's easy math, right?
So that's $1,000 a year.
So what is that a month?
I mean, it's pretty easy math toknow what you want to start
thinking about trying to have onhand or put away.
(32:09):
And, yeah, maybe you don't usethat $1,200 the first year, but
now you've got that set asideand now it's $2,400, et cetera,
et cetera.
And you're ready because asyour pet ages, like you said,
the cost of care is going toincrease.
You know puppies, you got yourinitial puppy stuff and then
they're usually good for, youknow, the first couple of years,
barring an accident or incident.
It's just you know wellnessstuff but inevitably you know
(32:32):
you're going to run into moreissues health issues as time
goes on.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Absolutely Generally.
My personal view on this is thatyou're probably, over the
lifetime of a pet, of that pet,going to spend the same amount,
but it's how you spend it.
What we're trying to do here isto make it as orderly as
possible, to reduce the spikesas much as you can, and when you
think about that way just likehuman health right, so you know,
(32:59):
going for your normal examsyou're going to be able to catch
something sooner, as opposed tonot bringing your pet into the
vet for two years or three yearsand they're not getting their
regular, you know, routinephysicals and stuff like that.
That's so important.
That's why in human health caregenerally, they give you those
visits for free, because theywant to catch stuff before they
accelerate and get intosomething that is a bigger issue
(33:22):
.
So I'm convinced that you'regoing to spend that same amount
over the course of that lifetimeof that pet, but that pet will
live longer and it'll behealthier and happier, and so I
think that's the way.
But you know, I really like tolook at it and that's why I
think planning and budgeting andusing tools like CareCredit or
insurance are incrediblyvaluable to do that the right
way.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yeah, and at minimum from a planning perspective.
Just like we know tax day isgoing to come every April 15th
generally, and just like I knowthat I'm going to have a certain
bill due at a certain time ofthe month, you know, as you're a
pet owner, that if you got yourpet in January of 2023, that
they're going to be due for awellness exam in January 2024.
(34:03):
So it should be relatively easyto at least plan for the basic
stuff if you just kind of thinkit through, and not be like
suddenly I have no money setaside and it's a day before my
appointment that I know is goingto cost me $400.
So, jonathan, just to kind ofwrap things up, what kind of
final advice or reminders do youhave for pet parents to ensure
(34:23):
that they are not puttingthemselves in a bind, that they
don't have those huge spikesthat cause chaos in their lives
throughout the life of theirpets as far as planning
financially, yeah, I'd say, andwe talked about a lot.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Do your research financially.
Yeah, I'd say, and we talkedabout a lot.
Do your research.
Know your breed, speak to yourveterinarian, understand the
options and that spectrum ofcare that fits the lifestyle
that you have.
Be proactive in getting thetools that you need.
So, as we mentioned, like carecredit in this case is what
we're talking about here and thecompany that I work for and
(34:58):
having that ready for you in theunexpected or unanticipated
emergency that you might havebecause it isn't going to be
unanticipated, because we knowwhat happens.
We know what happens in 80% ofthe pets and just use those
resources, use your veterinarian, talk to them.
Their outlook and theiroutcomes are the same as yours.
(35:19):
It's the health of that pet andmaking sure that you're
enjoying your life with that.
And you know, I'd say, enjoyyour time with that pet right
there.
Yes, there is a cost element toit, but they add so much to our
lives, they add so much tosociety and the least we could
do for all the love and all thebenefits that they provide us is
to give them the care that theydeserve and they need so that
(35:40):
they live that great life.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I couldn't have wrapped up any better myself.
Jonathan, thank you so much forbeing here with us today and
for opening our eyes to theoptions that we have many
options, a lot more than I evenoriginally thought of for making
sure that we provide the verybest care for our pets.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Amy, thank you.
Thank you so much for welcomingme on the show, on the podcast,
and for everything that you doto help prospective pet parents
or existing pet parents learnmore about how best to manage
that relationship, and all theother work on the side you do
for those who are strugglingwith emergency needs for their
pets.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Well, thank you, I appreciate it.
And thank you again toeverybody for listening to
another episode.
We will see you next week.
Thanks for listening to MuddyPaws and Hairballs.
Be sure to visit our website atmuddypawsandhairballscom for
more resources and be sure tofollow this podcast on your
favorite podcast app so you'llnever miss a show.
And hey, if you like this show,text someone right now and say
(36:37):
I've got a podcastrecommendation.
You need to check the show outand tell them to listen and let
you know what they think.
Don't forget to tune in nextweek and every week for a brand
new episode.
And if you don't do anythingelse this week, give your pets a
big hug from us.
If you've listened to the show in the past couple of
weeks, you know we're taking avery short break here before the
new season of Muddy Paws andHairballs kicks off is very
close to my heart Paying for PetHealthcare where we had
Jonathan Weinberg, senior VicePresident and General Manager
for Pet Co brand at SynchronyFinancial.
Come on the show and talk aboutthe various options that pet
(00:34):
parents have to pay for theirpet's healthcare.
If you've ever had to make atough financial decision for
your pet's health, you know howstressful it can be.
I've been there myself and I'mglad to know that those of you
out there that are listening tothis episode have better options
available to you than I thoughtI had at the time.
So in this episode, jonathanand I discuss how to manage
unexpected health care costs foryour pet and how CareCredit and
(00:54):
other options can offer ahelping hand when you need it
the most.
If you're a pet parent andyou're worried about how to
afford the very best care foryour pet, you're not going to
want to miss this episode.
Stay tuned.
(01:16):
Today I'm welcoming JonathanWeinberg, the Senior Vice
President and General Manager ofSynchronize Pet Business.
Jonathan oversees SynchronizeCare Credit, health and Wellness
credit card program, which is aflexible payment solution for
pet parents that is accepted bymore than 25,000 veterinary
practices in the US.
Jonathan's also a board memberat Independent Pet Holdings,
(01:37):
where he's part of a team thatoversees strategic direction of
multiple pet insurance brands,including Pets Best, aspca, pet
Health Insurance and Spot.
But, most importantly, jonathanis a proud dad and husband and
a pet parent to a mini poodlenamed Maddie, and he joins us
today to talk about helping petparents navigate the rising cost
(01:58):
of pet care and understandtheir financial options when it
comes to getting their pets thevery best care possible.
So, jonathan, thank you so muchfor being here today.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Thank you for having me, amy, and full transparency.
I do have to introduce someoneelse in the room over here, so
hold on.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
For those who are on video, watching us on YouTube
yes, oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
This is the beautiful Maddie Weinberg.
She is a 14-year-old miniaturepoodle.
She is our first child and,most days, our favorite child,
and she's lived in fourdifferent countries with us and
has been to 13 countries.
So she's a real part of thefamily and we kind of joke that
she's the chief pet officer ofSynchrony.
(02:41):
I work for her and she worksfor me, but I kind of feel like
I work for her most of the time.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
There you go.
Yeah, the pet's always at thetop of the food chain.
Absolutely, she's wise, she'sbeen around the world, she's
been around the block and so youknow.
It's interesting.
You say you've had her for 14years and she is your first
child, and my guess would bethat back then the options for
paying for pet care were notanywhere what they are today.
(03:06):
As somebody who is thepresident of an animal rescue,
the ability to pay for the carefor that pet is a huge
responsibility that hangs overmy head every time I face an
adoption situation, especiallywhen you've got somebody that
comes into the situation who isalready concerned about how
they're going to pay theiradoption fee, let alone the
(03:27):
long-term lifetime care costsfor that pet.
So can you just kind of give usan idea of, like what are some
of the options that areavailable?
We did an entire episode on petinsurance and definitely I'm a
proponent of at leastinvestigating those options to
see what might fit for you.
But what other things areavailable to people?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, and you know, I think, amy, it would make sense
for us to start just to sharesome overall, you know, industry
and macro trends to kind oflevel set.
Pet ownership is at an all-timehigh.
In the US, right, abouttwo-thirds of households enjoy
the benefits of sharing theirlife with a pet.
There's a disproportionateamount of first time pet owners
(04:08):
in the market due to, you know,general macro trends that have
been happening, but also becauseof the boom that happened with
the pandemic and peoplebenefiting and seeing all the
better outcomes of when peoplewere locked down, having the
ability to share their life andnot be alone, and also some of
the physical benefits thatpeople saw.
(04:29):
And then the third thing I justkind of point out is there's
been great advances in medicalcare, right for pets over the
past decades and that'saccelerating.
We continue to see that.
So while costs are increasing,so too are our positive outcomes
, right.
But with that comes somechallenges.
More than half of pet parentsunderestimate the cost of caring
for their pets.
Many pet parents, especiallyfirst timers.
(04:50):
They don't know the life cycleof a pet.
They don't know the cost andresponsibilities that come with
that.
You kind of learn that over thecourse of maybe the first pet
you have and living through thatlife cycle, right, and you know
an unexpected expense of youknow you were talking about the
$50 adoption fee, but one of thestudies that we did said
unexpected expenses as little as$250 is enough to trigger
(05:13):
anxiety in that pet parent.
So you know, here's what wealso know Pet parents should
never have to choose betweencost and the care for their pets
, and having a variety offinancial options, which is what
we're going to talk about today, is important, and expecting
what I like to say expectingwhat should not be unexpected,
right, because you knowsomething is going to happen and
(05:36):
that's critical.
And that's where care credit andflexible payment options come
in.
Care credit is a flexible andconvenient payment option.
It's available for pet parentsand it covers just about
everything you could do in a vetclinic.
It also covers in certainboarding and pet hotels and some
grooming locations as well, butthe majority of what we do is
(05:57):
with regards to the healthcare.
Use of the card.
It's accepted in approximately85% of vets in the United States
and it offers flexiblefinancing options, both short
and long term, and it's areal-time application and
approval.
It should take you no more than30 seconds to know if you
pre-qualify without hitting yourcredit rating, and you could do
it either at home, proactively,or you could do it at the vet
(06:19):
office if something unexpectedpops up.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Right, especially in, like I said in my experience in
rescue.
We do not just rescue but we doa lot of outreach in the
community and we get calls allthe time from veterinarians who
are like, hey, we've got a dogwith a foreign body and the
owner can't afford what weproject the costs are going to
be.
Is that something that you canhelp with?
And obviously we work withpeople on that, but time is
(06:43):
definitely of the essence.
But surprisingly, we actuallyhad a recent case where, you
know, because that person wasable to get care credit, I
actually had to call the vetafter the fact and say so what
do we owe you?
Like, what was?
What was the final outcome?
And as it turned out, you know,they were covered and they
didn't need to have the moneythat we had set aside for that,
which is great, because now Ican use that for the next animal
(07:04):
that may not be as lucky.
So it was super quick and agreat option for that family.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
That's absolutely right and it's great about
having various nets to catchwhere certain situations happen,
making sure that people don'tfall through the cracks.
It's amazing that we havepeople like you that have
dedicated and have thoseemergency funds, but ideally
people can plan ahead.
So, similar to you you talkedabout, you're a big proponent of
pet insurance, or at leastexamining pet insurance.
(07:34):
And pet insurance is great incertain situations and in other
situations it doesn't work.
Maddie, for instance she's 14years old.
She had pet insurance but thenwe lived abroad and that
insurance didn't transfer withher to where she was and when
she came back she had just anincredible amount of
pre-existing conditions thatdidn't make sense for her to be
insured anymore.
She does have an accident onlypolicy which covers things like
(07:56):
if she were, to God forbid, gethit by a car or hurt her leg or
eat something.
You know that she wasn'tsupposed to, but it doesn't make
sense from a general means.
But generally I'm a bigproponent.
As you said, we used to havePetsFest used to roll up into me
.
It was the third largest petinsurer in the US and credit and
insurance work great together.
Also right, because some of thefriction in the insurance thing
(08:19):
is waiting for thereimbursement right, you're
putting in that claim, but youalso have to have the money
available to pay the vet at thetime of treatment, and so care
credit can help you as you waitfor that reimbursement to come
back.
So those are important thingsand these things work very well
together, and a lot of thestudies we found is that people
that have both care credit andinsurance tend to be some of
(08:42):
your most highly engaged petparents and are looking for the
most optimal care for that pet,and optimal doesn't have to mean
the most expensive.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Right, yeah, it's covering the bases and it seems
like those are kind of two ofthe maybe three bases.
Maybe there's more bases,you'll have to let me know, but
you know.
So you've got the possibilityof insurance that may cover
certain things and may not coverother things.
You've got the care credit tomake sure that the veterinarian
gets paid.
What about just the idea ofbudgeting?
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Listen, everyone has to do what's right for them.
What I'd say is we know throughour study Pet Lifetime of Care
that four to five pet owners aregoing to have an emergency at
some point.
Right, and so putting yourselfin the position to anticipate
that you're going to have anemergency is step one.
Right, budgeting is great, butnot everyone is great at it.
Right, budgeting is a greattool, but not everyone is great
(09:31):
at it.
You know, I think, a couple ofthings education, right, know
your breed, dog or cat, or whereyou live and what the general
costs are going to be forcertain things.
That's very important.
I think health savings, highyield savings accounts, health
savings accounts are a great wayto do it.
I think now you know we hear alot about interest rates are
(09:52):
high and stuff like that.
On a negative side, from youknow, mortgage rates and people
trying to borrow, but you knowbanks are vending money at a
much higher rate.
Synchrony is a bank and we havea high yield savings account
and we're offering, I think,just under 5% and that's a great
way to, you know, kind of putthat money in.
It's a great product.
But having something likeCareCredit before you know we
(10:12):
tend to think about it as anemergency product.
Preventative care and yourroutine appointments are running
up to an amount where you couldbenefit from an interest-free
promotion that we offer for ourdeferred financing options.
That's something that peoplecan always take advantage of.
(10:33):
I also think talking to yourvet really understanding some of
those nuances.
I'm going to give you an examplewith Maddie.
She's lived a great life so far,but the longer you live, just
like in humans, things pop up.
Maddie, you know, about threeyears ago, was diagnosed with
Cushing's and that requires notjust medicine but also
regulating her levels right Formaking sure her cortisol levels
(10:56):
and the adrenal glands areoperating at the optimal amount
for her to live that healthylife.
Well, that's one thing that youknow I didn't really realize.
Then, about nine months ago,she got diagnosed with a mitral
valve deficiency which is, youknow, a precursor to the
(11:16):
potential of having congestiveheart failure.
With that she needs to go threetimes a year for an EKG and see
, see as a doggy cardiologistright, which you know a lot of
people didn't know existed untilthey go visit one.
But she gets great care overthere and they work with me to
manage the best way to puttogether what is affordable.
They accept care credit, whichallows me to, you know, take
those expenses and pay them overa much more orderly fashion,
(11:37):
over six months a year or evenlonger.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah, and not put yourself in a financial bind by
using a higher interest creditcard Because, just like you said
, interest rates are up.
So if you're using a regularcredit card and you're not
paying that balance because thatcould put you in that situation
, now you're paying a lot ofinterest that you didn't
necessarily need to pay if you'dexplored that other option.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Absolutely Take advantage of.
If someone's offering you sixmonths or a year and you're
paying it on the schedule, it'sa no cost to the cardholder.
It's just such a valuableproduct where things are on the
market now.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, and even if it's not a credit card situation
.
I don't know about youngerpeople I'm old but a lot of
people in my generation are verylike don't use credit if you
don't have to.
You don't use credit if youdon't have to.
Well, if I'm getting zerointerest credit and I'm getting
5% or 4.9% on my savings, whywould I take money out of my
savings?
Take the money out of yoursavings as you're paying your
(12:27):
care credit bill versus.
I mean it just doesn't do themath.
Do the math and figure out whatis the best option for you in
advance.
That's important.
I mean, that's part of beingsmart financially, for sure.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Absolutely, that's my view also, and there are ways
on the CareCredit website foryou to set up for automatic
payments so that you're hittingthat minimum payment and not
accruing interest after thepromotional period.
Right, we make that available,those tools, so that people get
the most out of thosepromotional opportunities little
(13:04):
planning for sure, but it'sdefinitely doable.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
You had mentioned and it's interesting you mentioned
because I did look through thelifetime of care document and
you mentioned this idea ofknowing the breed of your pet.
I actually sent a text to myvet because she's also a client
of mine in my consultingbusiness.
I was like, hey, have youthought about offering as part
of your whether it's a wellnessor new client, new puppy,
whatever it is offering thegenetic testing so that people
(13:29):
know what are the potentialissues for their pet?
And then having a discussionwith because I think the
communication with theveterinarian is so important and
being able to talk to a petparent to say here are the
long-term possible may nothappen to your dog because it's
this mix or that mix.
Know, here are the long-termpossible you know may not happen
to your dog because it's thismix or that mix.
But here are some things wemight be facing in the future
(13:50):
and here's how we can betterprepare for those.
Do you find that people aredoing that more, that they're
doing their homework a littlebit on their pets?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
I think so.
Listen, I think those DNA teststo learn more about the breeds
are interesting, especially asyou don't necessarily have all
the history about them.
So people are curious.
Oh, I think it's a pit mix ofthis and that, and people want
to know, which is great.
It's taken it to that nextlevel, just like I did an
Ancestrycom test also.
Yeah, okay, it was interesting.
I kind of knew this.
(14:19):
But what are you going to dowith that information and how do
you make that better?
And I think you hit the nail onthe head.
It's really talking to the vet.
Okay, so this is what I have.
This is a miniature poodle.
What can I expect over thecourse of the life?
What do I need to watch out for?
What do I need to budget for?
Vets are.
They're great, right?
They're so dedicated to thewelfare of our family members,
(14:39):
right.
And they bear the burden of alot of those conversations where
someone shows up and can'tafford that vital care or the
optimal care, and so they wantto do as much as they can, but
you're not put in that situation.
That pet is not put in thatsituation and they're not put in
that situation.
So I would say, definitely,talk to them, use those
resources.
(15:00):
They will share with you atreatment plan.
Whether you're paying in normalcredit card, cash or with care
credit, it's all about workingout something that makes sense
ultimately for the pet andsomething that you can afford
over that lifetime.
It's spectrum of care alsoright.
There's no exactly 100% rightor wrong on what is right for
(15:21):
that pet.
So, talking about that withyour vet and understanding the
lifestyle that you live, theresources that you have, work
together to figure out whatmakes most sense for that family
member and how you go about it.
I think that there's a lot ofgreat tools out there and vets
are so generous with their timebecause they care so much about
those outcomes of animals, ofour pet family members, that
(15:43):
they're willing to invest inthat and help you figure that
out.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, you have to open that door to communication
in some instances, because whatI have found not only working
with vets working for vets ininterviewing vets for this show
is that the initial conversationis going to be, in most
instances, the gold standard.
Here is the gold standard ofwhat we can do for your pet, and
(16:07):
if you just nod and smile andsay, okay, they're going to make
the assumption that you havethe finances, that you're not
going to put yourself in thepoorhouse, you're not going to
be pulling from your kid'scollege fund or not being able
to pay your rent.
You have to open that door tocommunication to say are there
alternatives?
Can we do this in stages?
And you know as, just as anexample.
(16:30):
So when my dog, Jack, who was aDoberman Pinscher, got a
hemangioparasitoma, which is avery treatable type of cancer,
but it was on his leg and youknow the standard, it wasn't
even necessarily the goldstandard, but the standard was
to amputate the leg.
And this is where it's soimportant to really think about
just what you said as far asyour lifestyle, the pet itself
(16:52):
and having that communicationwith your vet, is that, knowing
that a Doberman Pinscher carriesa huge percentage of its body
weight on its front leg, knowingthat I had hardwood floors and
he already was having issueswith slipping and sliding on the
floors, it's like, yeah, no, isthere any other option?
And financially it was areverse situation because I
actually went ahead and didradiation therapy on it and I
(17:14):
won't even throw the number outthere because he's going to
choke somebody and that was along time ago too.
But for that dog, thatinvestment to do that treatment
made a whole lot of sense basedon all of the things considered.
I think my vet thought I wasnuts had it been a different pet
and it has nothing to do withloving the pet, more or less
(17:34):
like I had a dog named Coco whowas a miniature pincher.
If she had gotten the same thing, I probably wouldn't have
pursued, for a lot of reasons,that type of treatment, because
that dog, I mean she could haveone leg and she would have
gotten around just fine.
I mean she was just like somuch more agile, didn't have the
problems that he had.
So my point in sharing that isthat it is so important to
(17:55):
really think about the bigpicture, because whatever is
presented to you, although itmight be a good solution, or
even the best solution.
It may not be the rightsolution for you in your 360
degree situation and you have tocommunicate with your vet about
that and be open and honestwith them about it.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Absolutely.
You hit it square on.
It is being realistic aboutwhat you can do, and that
doesn't mean pet ownership isn'tfor you or that you can't
provide a loving and caring homefor that pet.
It's just about you know whatis that spectrum and what does
it make sense in some cases, insome situations, right, and
that's that's where education,knowledge and being realistic
(18:35):
with your vet about, hey, here's, here's where I am, this is
what I budget for and how do wego about doing that is paramount
.
You know, knowledge is power.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Right, I know one of the complaints I see and it's,
of course, it's always the angrycustomer where you see the post
on social media where peopleare complaining about prices of
things, and one in particularthat jumps out to me was a
social media post where somebodywas blasted.
You know, I need a newveterinarian.
This veterinarian wasridiculous.
I brought my two dogs in hereand you know for well checks for
(19:05):
this and that and came out andit was $700.
And I think my first thoughtwas honey, you got off cheap for
that.
But to me it shouldn't havebeen a shock to this person as
to what the cost of care fortheir pet was going to be.
What would you tell pet ownersas far as doing a better job in
communicating with theirveterinarians about the cost of
things before they're down thepath?
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, listen, I think even before you bring that pet
into your family, do theresearch.
There's plenty of sites outthere that have estimation of
what procedures cost.
If you go to our lifetime ofcare study, you'll be able to
see what our survey has showed.
Study, right, you'll be able tosee what our survey has showed
(19:46):
what a pet can cost, and youknow, our study determined that
it's about $20,000 to $55,000for a lifetime of a dog.
Now, that's not just vet bills,it's, you know, totality of
everything, but you know that'sit's a big range, which is fine,
but it's those are notinsignificant numbers.
And for a cat, you know between15 and 45,000.
Right, and so I don't sharethese numbers to scare people
(20:09):
away, because I think,ultimately, bringing a pet into
your household and into yourlife has a lot of benefits, but
it's also a covenant.
You're bringing a living beinginto your household and you got
to be able to provide for it,just like you provide for human
household members, right, and soI would say that you should
always have some sort ofwherewithal of what you can
(20:30):
budget for, and I would also saydon't let an emergency come up
on you to the extent you can't.
Like, we said, we know thatthere's going to be surprises,
but how do you prepare for that?
So, whether it's having carecredit before because you can
take advantage of it for yourroutine care, or you're having,
you know other people, whetherit be your family, know that,
(20:51):
hey, if something emergencycomes up, I have the ability to
you know, reach out to you forcertain things, because the last
thing you want to do is, whenthat pet is having an emergency,
is to be thinking about how I'mgoing to pay for it as opposed
to how your pet is doing.
It's already too stressful anevent for you to add that upper
variable which is not going toallow you to think clearly and
(21:14):
be there emotionally for yourfamily and for that pet.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
Right, you make a good point about, you know,
communicating with family andfriends.
It's like having those, justlike I always encourage people
to have a plan B for their pet,especially if they're.
When we get younger people,college students, that want to
adopt a pet, I'm always a littleconcerned because that's a very
transitional time in your life.
You're at school, then youmight be living at home, then
(21:38):
you might be getting anapartment, you might be living
with somebody else.
What is your plan B?
Do you have one?
And it's like, if I hear a goodanswer, it makes me feel a lot
more comfortable about the factthat you've taken the time to
think through what mightpotentially happen in your life
and in your situation for thatpet and that the pet has been
considered in those factors.
Because I think too many timesI'm one that gets the calls
(22:01):
every day I don't know 15 or 20calls a day for people
surrendering because I'm movingor I'm doing this or I'm doing
that and it's like really, andoh, by the way, the animal has
to be gone by Friday.
That was the call I the right.
Now French Bulldogs are superpopular, you know.
Obviously I think they're cute.
I would never own one.
I certainly wouldn't buy onefor a lot of reasons, but I see
(22:32):
a lot of people getting intosituations where the hype of
look how cute that is, I see itall over social media.
Now I've got one and I had noidea it was going to have all
these issues and all this cost.
Do you see a lot of that?
And what do we do to remedythat situation, other than tell
people you know, hey, don't getthat pet.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, it's a tough one, right, Because you know
people ultimately make thedecisions that they decide make
sense, right?
You hate to see when, you know,the 101 Dalmatians movie comes
out and suddenly everyone thinksit's cool to have a Dalmatian,
but they don't realize that thatDalmatian has a unique
lifestyle that not all homes arebuilt for and are very active
(23:14):
and need a lot of space andshouldn't be living in you know,
probably an apartment inManhattan.
Right, it's hard, you know youbelieve in the choice that
people should make, but I thinkthat another part of it is
family socialization, Right,what is the right pet for you to
have in a family situation?
There's pets that do muchbetter with kids, and I think
(23:34):
you probably see that a lot, Amy, as well.
Oh, we thought this would begreat for young children and it
turns out, you know, no, it'snot the right mix, Right?
Or, oh, my child's allergic topets.
Well, you know, maybe youshould have got your kid checked
for the allergy of dog or catsbefore you brought a living
being into your house, right?
So it's really tough, butultimately I don't see that
(23:57):
situation going away and I thinkwe're.
You know we're very lucky tohave people like you that
dedicate their you know theirlives or their personal times to
finding places and matchingpeople and all the humane
societies out there and theshelters that are really doing
this really hard work tohopefully find places for when
(24:17):
those pets are just not in theright situation for them.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Right.
I think education and knowledgeobviously is a key to all of
that.
I mean, that's one of thereasons that we're doing this
podcast is like, if we can getthe word out about all the
aspects of life with pets thegood, the bad and otherwise then
people are at least armed withthat knowledge and that
information.
One of the things that I'mfinding veterinarians doing more
(24:42):
and more is that they're notonly giving that initial range
you know, low end, it's going tobe this, high end it's going to
be that but basically you knowdoing a good job of keeping
those lines of communicationopen with the owner as things
start to creep from the low tothe high.
Because I think human nature is, if somebody says it could cost
somewhere between $2 and $5,you're thinking two, because
(25:06):
that's obviously what you'rehoping for.
And when they come back and sayit's going to be five, it's
like well, I thought you saidtwo to five and it's like five
is still five.
Any thoughts on that as far aswhat you've heard or what you're
seeing from the veterinary sideof things and what vets are
doing, so that there's notsurprises when it comes to
paying the bill?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, listen, I think they're sharing treatment plans
right.
So it's showing a range, butit's also showing, as we
discussed earlier, a spectrum ofcare, because there's certain
things that, yes, ideally we allwould have unlimited funds to
spend on that gold level servicethat that pet wants and we all
(25:46):
want to give that family memberthat care.
But the truth is is that insome cases and only the vet
knows best is when is thatreally needed?
And so, understanding with them, hey, I'd love to be able to do
all this, but is theresomething that's going to get me
75% of the way there, that is,45% of the cost and the other
(26:07):
treatments that you have?
Maybe that's something that canfollow in a year when I'm able
to, you know, budget that out orafford it.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Right, yeah, good point.
I know that when I originallytook my bulldog she was having a
lot of problems and I couldtell she had probably done
something to her knee or ACL.
You know, the initial treatmentplan from one practice was to
do a certain procedure thatinvolved cutting bone and screws
and things like that.
It was very expensive, wouldhave done it, except that a
(26:38):
friend had mentioned, you know,oh, when we had the same issue
with our dog, we had this otheroption.
So I explored other options andwent with a different procedure
that has worked out reallyreally well.
It was less invasive and abouta third of the price.
So you know, that's something Ithink people to you know to
talk about alternatives withtheir veterinarians.
I mean, I love my vets and Ilike to keep my business there,
but at the same time I have todo what's going to be not only
(27:02):
the best for my pet health-wise,but what I can afford or what
makes the most sense financiallyfor me too, and I think the
vets understand that.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, I think they do .
I've been fortunate to spend anincredible amount of time with
vets and I know that they putthe health of the pet first, and
so it's in their interest toprovide the pet with the best
options, that pet parent withthe best options for the care of
that pet.
I think that in human healthit's not uncommon to get a
(27:31):
second opinion in certain cases.
Now I'm not suggesting thatpeople shop around like that,
but in certain cases, if youdon't feel comfortable with what
that vet is suggesting whetherit be cost-wise or
treatment-wise you have thatoption at your disposal as well,
and I would think they wouldunderstand that.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Right, there's not always just one way to
accomplish a goal with eitherour human health care or with
our pet's health care.
And so because I might be anorthopedic veterinarian and I do
TPLOs and that's what I do,doesn't mean that it's wrong,
that that's what I offer,because that's what I know how
(28:08):
to do, that's what I'm trainedto do, that's what I do really,
really well, whereas you mighthave somebody over here who you
know and we ended up going tosomebody who was one of the,
like, original people to do thetightrope procedure and that's
kind of what he did.
And so you know it's it's it'sknowing those options.
It was the same thing when Ihad an incident with some horses
and I tore my ACL and the firstphysician that I went to wanted
(28:32):
to do a knee replacementbecause, oh, you're probably
going to need that someday.
I'm like, am I really that old?
But okay, you know, you'reprobably going to need that
someday.
I go to another physician and hehas a completely different
viewpoint on it, and it's not tosay necessarily that one is
right or wrong.
Time will tell right.
But it's what?
Like you said, it could be instages Right now if you're
telling me not to do a kneereplacement and try to do
(28:54):
physical therapy.
I think I'll try that first.
That's okay.
It's just it's options that wehave when we get those other
opinions and usually doesn'thurt anybody's feelings when you
do.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
No, I agree, and it's options and in probably most
cases is which is the rightdecision and maybe which one is
the more right decision or bestright, not necessarily wrong
right and I think it's abouthaving that connectivity of
comfort with that veterinarianand what fits your comfort zone
and what is your ability to youknow, do something at this time,
(29:26):
and they understand it.
It's not as if veterinariansdon't understand.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Right.
So just to kind of startbringing this thing full circle,
beyond the issues of insurance,care credit, you know doing
proper budgeting.
What in your experience, whatother options are out there for
people, whether it's likenonprofits or grants, or you
know what other options are outthere to people?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Of course.
I think and I want to reiterate, I think the first part you
could do is hopefully putyourself in a situation that
that's not needed, right and so,whether it's insurance, whether
it's budgeting, whether it's,you know, care credit, have
something out there that limitsthe necessity of some of the
later stage plans to executeupon, if you will right.
(30:12):
But once you get through thatand people do fall through you
know situations fall through thecracks.
Right, check with your localhumane societies.
They're certainly dedicating alot of time.
There's a lot of organizationsthat are out there
municipalities as well to seewhat programs are available.
There's a lot of traveling vets.
You know services that goaround and, okay, we're doing a
(30:33):
clinic here for the next twodays and we'll see as many pets
as we can.
I'd also add that many vetpractices also have a charitable
fund.
I think when you start gettinginto families and crowdsourcing
GoFundMe, the challenge withthose are that they take time,
and in many of thesecircumstances it's an emergency,
(30:54):
and so that's why it's abouttrying to plan ahead, but have a
list of options that you can godown and if you can't make the
payment or if you can't, thenget care credit if you can't get
the next site, have thoseoptions ready so you're not
panicked.
Remove as much stress as youcan from what is gonna be an
incredibly stressful situation.
Unfortunately, it's a covenantthat you're bringing this living
(31:18):
animal into your lives and theyadd so much to it, and it's our
responsibility to make surethat we're there for them when
they need us the most.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Right, when you mentioned the range of the, you
know, 20,000 to 50-somethingthousand.
You know, even if people wereto think ahead enough to say,
okay, let's take it on the lowend, let's just go with the
assumption that my pet's goingto be a relatively healthy pet
and it's going to liveapproximately X number of years,
I mean, you can do the math onthat because it's interesting
(31:47):
and this is I should know better, right?
But when you threw out that$20,000 number, I was thinking,
ooh, that's a lot of money andthat's the low end.
But if you take that and youdivide that by, let's say, an
animal that lived 20 years, justbecause it's easy math, right?
So that's $1,000 a year.
So what is that a month?
I mean, it's pretty easy math toknow what you want to start
thinking about trying to have onhand or put away.
(32:09):
And, yeah, maybe you don't usethat $1,200 the first year, but
now you've got that set asideand now it's $2,400, et cetera,
et cetera.
And you're ready because asyour pet ages, like you said,
the cost of care is going toincrease.
You know puppies, you got yourinitial puppy stuff and then
they're usually good for, youknow, the first couple of years,
barring an accident or incident.
It's just you know wellnessstuff but inevitably you know
(32:32):
you're going to run into moreissues health issues as time
goes on.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Absolutely Generally.
My personal view on this is thatyou're probably, over the
lifetime of a pet, of that pet,going to spend the same amount,
but it's how you spend it.
What we're trying to do here isto make it as orderly as
possible, to reduce the spikesas much as you can, and when you
think about that way just likehuman health right, so you know,
(32:59):
going for your normal examsyou're going to be able to catch
something sooner, as opposed tonot bringing your pet into the
vet for two years or three yearsand they're not getting their
regular, you know, routinephysicals and stuff like that.
That's so important.
That's why in human health caregenerally, they give you those
visits for free, because theywant to catch stuff before they
accelerate and get intosomething that is a bigger issue
(33:22):
.
So I'm convinced that you'regoing to spend that same amount
over the course of that lifetimeof that pet, but that pet will
live longer and it'll behealthier and happier, and so I
think that's the way.
But you know, I really like tolook at it and that's why I
think planning and budgeting andusing tools like CareCredit or
insurance are incrediblyvaluable to do that the right
way.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yeah, and at minimum from a planning perspective.
Just like we know tax day isgoing to come every April 15th
generally, and just like I knowthat I'm going to have a certain
bill due at a certain time ofthe month, you know, as you're a
pet owner, that if you got yourpet in January of 2023, that
they're going to be due for awellness exam in January 2024.
(34:03):
So it should be relatively easyto at least plan for the basic
stuff if you just kind of thinkit through, and not be like
suddenly I have no money setaside and it's a day before my
appointment that I know is goingto cost me $400.
So, jonathan, just to kind ofwrap things up, what kind of
final advice or reminders do youhave for pet parents to ensure
(34:23):
that they are not puttingthemselves in a bind, that they
don't have those huge spikesthat cause chaos in their lives
throughout the life of theirpets as far as planning
financially, yeah, I'd say, andwe talked about a lot.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Do your research financially.
Yeah, I'd say, and we talkedabout a lot.
Do your research.
Know your breed, speak to yourveterinarian, understand the
options and that spectrum ofcare that fits the lifestyle
that you have.
Be proactive in getting thetools that you need.
So, as we mentioned, like carecredit in this case is what
we're talking about here and thecompany that I work for and
(34:58):
having that ready for you in theunexpected or unanticipated
emergency that you might havebecause it isn't going to be
unanticipated, because we knowwhat happens.
We know what happens in 80% ofthe pets and just use those
resources, use your veterinarian, talk to them.
Their outlook and theiroutcomes are the same as yours.
(35:19):
It's the health of that pet andmaking sure that you're
enjoying your life with that.
And you know, I'd say, enjoyyour time with that pet right
there.
Yes, there is a cost element toit, but they add so much to our
lives, they add so much tosociety and the least we could
do for all the love and all thebenefits that they provide us is
to give them the care that theydeserve and they need so that
(35:40):
they live that great life.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I couldn't have wrapped up any better myself.
Jonathan, thank you so much forbeing here with us today and
for opening our eyes to theoptions that we have many
options, a lot more than I evenoriginally thought of for making
sure that we provide the verybest care for our pets.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Amy, thank you.
Thank you so much for welcomingme on the show, on the podcast,
and for everything that you doto help prospective pet parents
or existing pet parents learnmore about how best to manage
that relationship, and all theother work on the side you do
for those who are strugglingwith emergency needs for their
pets.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
Well, thank you, I appreciate it.
And thank you again toeverybody for listening to
another episode.
We will see you next week.
Thanks for listening to MuddyPaws and Hairballs.
Be sure to visit our website atmuddypawsandhairballscom for
more resources and be sure tofollow this podcast on your
favorite podcast app so you'llnever miss a show.
And hey, if you like this show,text someone right now and say
(36:37):
I've got a podcastrecommendation.
You need to check the show outand tell them to listen and let
you know what they think.
Don't forget to tune in nextweek and every week for a brand
new episode.
And if you don't do anythingelse this week, give your pets a
big hug from us.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.