March 11, 2025 • 42 mins
Is calling your pet your “fur baby” harmless fun or actually harmful to your pet’s well-being?
If you’ve ever wondered whether treating your pet like a child is helping or hurting them, you’re not alone. The truth is, humanizing pets isn’t the issue. Misunderstanding their needs is.
In this episode, I talk with veterinary psychiatrist Dr. Rachel Malamed about what it really means to build a healthy emotional bond with your pet. Together, we explore how to strike the right balance between love and leadership, and how to avoid unintentionally stressing your pet by treating them like a human.
BY THE TIME YOU FINISH LISTENING, YOU’LL DISCOVER:
- Why respecting your pet’s species-specific needs leads to better behavior and emotional health
- How to read your pet’s body language more accurately and avoid common misinterpretations
- What it looks like to truly enrich your pet’s life in ways that serve them, not just you
This episode will challenge how you view your role as a pet parent and help you build a more fulfilling relationship based on understanding, trust, and healthy boundaries.
LEARN MORE ABOUT DR. RACHEL MALAMED:
Website: www.behaviordogtor.com
Join the Pet Psychiatry Hub Pre-Launch Waitlist
Books: Decoding Your Cat | Decoding Your Dog
Visit the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists
Find her on: YouTube, Facebook, Support Group for Pet Parents
Love the show? Please share it with another pet parent who wants less chaos and more clarity. Please leave a 5-star review to help others find real-life, judgment-free advice.
🎧Get your free guide: 10 Tips for Bonding With Your Pet
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Big pet challenges we help pet parents solve include: puppy training, cat behavior, pet budgeting, stress-free vet visits, solutions for multi-pet households, and more.
Contact: Amy@muddypawsandhairballs.com
©Ⓟ 2025 by Amy Castro.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amy Castro (00:00):
Think you're giving your pets the best life just
because you shower them withtreats, cuddles and cozy beds.
What if I told you that whatyour pet truly needs goes beyond
pampering?
One of the reasons we rebrandedthis show as Muddy Paws and
Hairballs is to highlight asimple truth Look, dogs need to
be dogs and cats need to be cats.
So in today's episode, we'rediving into what really makes
(00:22):
pets happy and mentally healthy,and it's not always what we
think.
You'll hear from a veterinarypsychiatrist with nearly two
decades of experience as weexplore how to truly respect our
pets for the animals that theyare, rather than treating them
like human babies.
If you want a happier, morebalanced pet, you're not going
to want to miss thisconversation.
Stay tuned, that's right.
(00:44):
There is so much more to givingyour pets a great life than
just spoiling them with treatsand cozy beds.
Welcome to Muddy Paws andHairballs, the podcast.
That's all about embracing petsfor the animals they truly are.
I'm Amy Castro and today I'mjoined by Dr Rachel Malamed, a
veterinary psychiatrist with 18years of experience and one of
only about 100 specialists whoare board certified by the
(01:05):
American College of VeterinaryBehaviorists.
She earned her Doctor ofVeterinary Medicine from the
Ontario Veterinary College in2005 before moving from Toronto
to Los Angeles, where shecompleted an internship at a
specialty and emergencyveterinary hospital, followed by
three years residency inclinical behavior medicine at UC
Davis.
Dr Malamed owns a veterinarypsychiatry practice in Los
(01:27):
Angeles that is dedicated to thephysical and emotional
well-being of pets.
She also serves as a forensicexpert witness in legal cases
involving animal behavior andhas contributed to several
leading behavior medicine books,including Decoding your Cat.
So, dr Malamed, welcome to theshow.
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate you making the timeto do this because, as I said
(01:49):
to you in the quote unquotegreen room before we got started
, that I was a bit on a tearwhen I decided I wanted to do an
episode on this subject, andmaybe it's just because I'm old
and can't relate and I love mypets.
I don't want anyone to thinkthat I don't love my pets and
that I don't care for them as ifthey're family, but I had been
reading a lot of things aboutpeople who really treat their
(02:12):
pets like they would treat humanchildren and some of the
problems that can arise fromdoing that, and I think maybe I
blew it up bigger in my head andI thought we're going to do
this episode and we're going totell them all they're wrong and
they're stupid and they need todo this.
And you were so nice and kindwhen we had our first
conversation and you're like,well, hold on a minute here.
You know, if there's no harmhappening, then there's no harm
(02:33):
happening.
And so I was glad to have thatconversation because it allowed
me to kind of rein in thisepisode, to finding a little
more balance, because I thinkeverybody's objective in the end
is just doing the best fortheir pet and loving them, right
, right, I love this topic.
So, yeah, thank you.
No, yeah, good, and I'm glad.
Yeah, I think it's justsomething that's important for
(02:55):
people to hear both sides ofthings.
You know, maybe people could bedoing a little bit better and
giving their pets what they needand, you know, maybe putting a
little less pressure onthemselves even to try to live
up to some standard that theythink that they have to have for
caring for their pets.
So what exactly does aveterinary behaviorist or a
veterinary psychiatrist do?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (03:16):
So we are veterinarians first and foremost
and then we've gone on to doanother three years of
veterinary residency training inthe field of clinical
behavioral medicine.
We're like psychiatrists foranimals and we pass a two-day
rigorous examination to becomeboard certified by the American
(03:37):
College of VeterinaryBehaviorists.
So in addition to being able todiagnose and treat medical
issues that contribute tobehavior changes or behaviors in
general, we have extensiveknowledge and expertise in
advanced learning theory,behavior modification techniques
, normal abnormal behavior,psychopharmacology and use of
(03:57):
those medications.
We kind of put everythingtogether to address the physical
and the emotional and mentalneeds of the pet and try to
figure out what is causing thatbehavior or motivating that
behavior.
And we're looking at the wholepet, not just the physical and
not just the behavioral, buteverything together.
Amy Castro (04:21):
So and we're lumping in a bunch of different things
dogs, cats and pets in general.
But I always have this thinkingprocess along the lines of as
an animal it has certain needs,a certain species has certain
needs, certain breeds havecertain needs, and so if you
kind of look at that as anumbrella thing, you know, dogs
versus cats, let's say, do theyhave different psychological
(04:45):
needs?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (04:46):
Yeah, I mean they're fundamentally different
in terms of their socialstructures and their
communication styles and speciesspecific behaviors and
instinctual behaviors.
They've sort of adapted indifferent ways and so we have to
understand these differences,of course, to provide them with
the appropriate enrichment andtraining and care that align
(05:09):
with their natural tendenciesand how they communicate, their
body language, theirsocialization, all of those
species differences hadn'treally thought about that
previously.
Amy Castro (05:24):
I kind of lumped my pets as my pets and they're
living in my house and you know,my, my cats are only indoors.
So there's a certain element tothat.
But I never really thoughtabout their enrichment until I
started doing the show really,and and doing rescue, you know,
thinking about their enrichmentneeds.
Even my darn dogs, like I kindof figured, okay, we've got a
big piece of property.
I opened the back door, they gooutside, they run around, and
it wasn't until I started divinginto this subject and we've
(05:46):
talked before on the show aboutenrichment and just a simple
change.
Like recently, I have beentaking them out in the front
yard, which is also fenced, butit's just normally.
I just let them out back, letthem do their thing.
But in the evenings we'vestarted going out front and you
would think that I was takingthem to Disney World.
For goodness sakes.
It's almost like food time.
They get all antsy, everybody'sover by the front door and I
(06:09):
think it's just different place,different smells, and I just
never really thought about theirwell-being from that standpoint
.
I thought, ok, I love them, I'mcaring for them, I'm feeding
them, but there's more to itthan that, right?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (06:21):
Yeah, I mean they have.
I mean cats in particular.
Well, dogs and cats, but youknow, they need to hunt, they
need to forage, they need toclimb, they need to perch, they
need to hide, they need to doall of these things and adding
(06:45):
complexity to their environmentand thinking about the function
of the enrichment that we'reproviding, it's actually
providing a need that they haveto perform these
species-specific behaviors.
And so when you let your doginto the backyard to sniff or
run or fetch or whatever they'redoing, it's a need that they
have.
And when we don't providesuitable enrichment
opportunities or opportunitiesfor animals to express their
species-specific or innatebehaviors, that's when we start
to have challenges orproblematic behaviors to the pet
(07:09):
parent.
Perhaps the behavior itself isfunctional and normal for the
animal, but from the person'spoint of view, and sometimes
those behaviors are completelynormal adaptations but because
the animal hasn't been providedwith those appropriate
opportunities or suitableoutlets, we start to see other
(07:31):
expressions that are notacceptable to the human.
Amy Castro (07:35):
Like what would be an example of that, like the
first thing that comes to mindas somebody who I do a lot of
dog introductions with.
You know, we've got a rescuedog and we're trying to
introduce it to the people's dogand you just see people like
their dogs interact in the storeand what do dogs do?
Right?
They go right to the other dog,butt and sniff and they're all
up in there, right, and thepeople are like no, no, don't do
(07:55):
that.
And I'm like that's whatthey're supposed to do.
And that's just one example.
Is it harmful if people don'tallow their dog to do that?
Just?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (08:07):
as an example, to greet another dog in
that way.
Well, I mean, that's just theirnatural behavior.
So I think that putting ourhuman expectations and obviously
you know, I think a lot abouthow humans greet dogs as an
example the way that we approachanimals is really a human
paradigm and we do what'snatural to us.
For example, like you know,it's natural when you meet
(08:28):
another human, especially in aprofessional environment, like
you would reach out your hand,shake their hand, or perhaps you
know when you're having guestscome over, you will give them a
hug or whatever that is.
But for you know, when yougreet an animal, that could be
perceived as a threat.
But you know, we commonly huganimals and pet animals and
reach for animals and approachthem head on and make direct eye
(08:51):
contact, and in fact those areall things that are very
frequently.
Dogs can become very aggressiveor defensive, and sometimes
they can.
They can bite, and and then ofcourse, we sometimes get upset
by the fact that they'veexpressed that normal behavior
to a threat.
Right, that behavior has afunction, which is to usually to
(09:14):
increase distance fromsomething that is threatening.
So I think the point being isthat the way that we think about
greeting a dog is probably verydifferent than how they would
like to be greeted greeting adog is probably very different
than how they would like to begreeted.
Amy Castro (09:30):
Yeah, you know as kind of an offshoot of that.
As far as the response to thatis having the expectation that
your dog should allow thosetypes of things.
When it makes themuncomfortable too, it's like you
know it's.
It's not a human well and evenwith human kids.
You know now that I get ready tohave the words come out of my
mouth.
It's like if your kid is notcomfortable hugging rando
strangers, then you shouldn'tforce that, because there's a
whole thing behind that aboutyou know having their own
(09:53):
boundaries respected as theygrow in age and possibly opening
them up to being abused in someway by people because they've
been told they have to allowpeople that they don't want
touching them.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (10:03):
Touch them Because they've been told they
have to allow people that theydon't want touching them touch
them, and I think that's sort ofthe.
I mean, I would think that'ssort of the same thing with dogs
is that we need to learn torespect our dog's boundaries and
to encourage other people to doso too another podcast.
But you know we talk aboutconsent and watching for body
(10:25):
language and signs like is theanimal approaching us,
soliciting attention oraffection, or is it showing
signs that it's moving away ordoesn't want to be touched or
interacted with?
So we look for signs of consentand obviously animals
communicate differently thanhumans.
They use vocalizations and bodylanguage and we have to learn
(10:46):
to read that in order to knowwhether they feel uncomfortable
or whether they're fearful oranxious or defensive or stressed
or whatnot.
So I think that's veryimportant that sometimes people
are well-meaning in theirintentions and they assume that
dogs like to be pet or they wantto be approached, and cats too,
but they don't.
(11:07):
I think they may not have theawareness and that's really
important to start therebecoming aware of what is normal
canine and feline body languageand communication and
interpreting their signals in away that you know we can respond
appropriately signals in a waythat you know we can respond
appropriately.
Amy Castro (11:31):
Yeah, I think I used to volunteer at an animal
control facility and there was ashocking lack of knowledge, and
I'm certainly no animal bodylanguage experts.
But I have done research and Ihave learned a few things along
the way and it was amazing to mehow an animal would be labeled
aggressive for exhibiting whatshould be a normal natural
tendency or behavior based onthe fact that you've got some
you know six foot man that youdon't know, that's coming into
(11:52):
your cage like this, over thetop of your head, reaching for
you.
It's like you know, only thevery best natured and very you
know, maybe massively handledanimal who's experienced that
discomfort and gotten over it,maybe through its lifetime, is
going to put up with that.
Other than that, they're goingto respond with a fear response
or a fearful aggression, and oneof the tricky things I think is
(12:14):
trying to get people to respectthose boundaries.
When I'm doing introductionswith a maybe a shyer dog, I find
that people want to talk.
They talk so much they just runin their mouths and it's like
the dog's already scared.
Now you're this loud humanbeing and you're moving like
this, with your arms moving andyou're talking at this high
(12:35):
volume and then you're bendingover in their face.
It's like why can't we justshut up and be quiet, let the
dog come to you?
And it's just.
I think people like you said,their intentions are good and
they're excited and they'retrying to win that animal over,
but they're doing all the wrongthings, or they could be doing
all the wrong things, dependingupon the animal.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (12:53):
Right.
And then what happens is theanimals start to hide their
warning signs.
So a growl is a communicationlike I'm not comfortable with
that or you're threatening, moveaway from me, or maybe the dog
moves its body away, or whateverthe signal is.
But if we persist inapproaching the dog who just
growled or handling the dog whojust growled, that growl is
(13:15):
going to very quickly turn intoa bite and next time it's going
to happen a lot faster.
So that's you know where therole of practice and experience
and learning comes into play.
And when there's repeatednegative experiences, the humans
that don't respect orunderstand dog body language or
cat body language, those warningsigns progress.
(13:38):
Body language or cat bodylanguage, those warning signs
progress.
And that's where we haveproblems increased severity.
Amy Castro (13:45):
And then they come to see me yeah, there you go
Right, cause they've had aproblem.
They've had a problem or a badexperience.
And it's interesting too,because people, because their
knowledge is so limited, becauseI've had people say, well, oh,
I didn't get any warning, hedidn't growl, he didn't do this,
or his tail was wagging, andit's like okay, there's a big
difference between a tail wagand a tail wag, you know, when
(14:06):
it comes to a dog and there areother signs and we don't.
I don't want to turn this intoa body language class, but one
thing I think you know foreverybody that's listening that
has a dog, is do some researchon what some of those body
language elements would be thatyour animal is not comfortable.
Things like lip licking or theway that their eyes are rolled
in their head and yawning,things like that can all be
indications of discomfort andyou're just thinking that your
(14:28):
dog's licking its lips becauseits lips are dry.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (14:31):
Yeah, and it's the context too that you're
looking at the whole body inthe big picture, but also the
subtleties.
And I'm so glad that youmentioned the wagging the tail.
That's a big misconception andI have to point it out because
the more people that I canexplain this to, the better.
But the wagging tail always themisconception is that it means
happy, that the dog is happy andit wants to interact, and it
(14:53):
doesn't mean that.
So it can mean that.
It can mean that a dog iswilling to engage in a friendly
manner and you kind of look atthe whole body, is it, is it
wiggly, is it like you can?
But it doesn't always mean thatthe dog is happy and relaxed.
It could also mean that the dogis aroused or aggressive.
You know where you have thestiff, high wagging tail.
(15:14):
It can actually be a sign ofagitation.
So we have to be careful withthat.
I hear it all the time.
Oh, the dog looked friendly, soI approached it was wagging its
tail, and then we know whathappens next.
Amy Castro (15:29):
Yeah Well and I think you know you made a good
point too, because you know I,as somebody that teaches humans
communication, body language isa huge part of our communication
too, and we all know you cantell when somebody's got a fake
smile on their face or theysmile because they've been
trained that that's the politething to do, but nothing else
about their body language ortheir tone of voice or anything
(15:49):
else is saying I want tointeract with you.
Then usually we believe the bigpicture more than just that one
thing and I think we need tolook at that with our dogs and
our cats as well it's knowingthe signs.
And also you know how much ofit comes down to beyond species.
Individual personality of thepet or does breed play into some
of that as well?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (16:09):
Yeah, I mean it's behaviors, multifactorial.
It's.
Breed does play a role in.
Genetics plays a role,environment plays a role,
learning, early socialization orlack thereof, and also
potential medical issuesunderlying pain or discomfort or
abnormality.
So some behaviors aremaladaptive or they're abnormal.
(16:29):
Each animal is an individual,just like humans are all
individuals, and they may havecertain predispositions that we
definitely need to take intoconsideration that influence
their behavior.
But there's so much more to itthan just breed alone and
behavior is very fluid too.
Like you know, behaviors changeover time and depending on the
(16:53):
external trigger or environment,learning and also the internal
states of the animal.
So there's a lot.
It's very complex.
Amy Castro (17:03):
Yeah, I've seen that a lot with my bulldog.
She's probably nine now andearlier on, you know, several
years ago, because we run arescue and we have a ton of
different animals that comethrough this house, from, you
know, little baby kittens tovarious dogs, and she has
definitely become less tolerant.
I don't know if it's because Iknow she does have a bad knee, I
know she does have bad hips, soshe's gotten older, but she
(17:25):
used to be so tolerant.
Now she's very growly towardsanybody that's bothering her too
much, or kittens that aretrying to climb on her, and it's
doesn't feel all that great andshe doesn't want to put up with
their BS.
You know, like she's just kindof done and so I don't force her
.
And that's where I think peopleget into trouble is they were,
like you know, to tell her no,you're being bad, you know, and
(17:47):
to make her put up with that.
You were talking about thesigns and things and it's like
we see these videos all over theInternet and, again, I'm no
body language expert for dogsbut I can say, oh, that dog's
getting ready to, and then thenext thing that happens is the
person gets bitten in the faceand these videos of people that
are letting their kids climb onthe dog and use it as a you know
and pulling on the ears andlook how good he is.
(18:09):
It's like he shouldn't have tobe.
It's just going to be a matterof time when he's decided he's
had it and then it's going to behis yeah.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (18:15):
He's had it and then it's going to be his
fault.
Yeah, that makes me cringe whenI see, you know, photos of
babies climbing on dogs and Ihear remarks, you know, I want a
dog who will let my child doanything to it.
And that's not realisticbecause at the end of the day,
they're animals, they feel pain,they feel stress and children.
(18:36):
They treat animals as peers andthey don't.
They're not expected to know,and even parents they're not
expected to know or they don'tknow normal body language or how
to read those signals all thetime.
And when you have childrenflailing around or toddler age
running, they're unpredictableand they wrap their arms around
the dog or kiss the dog on theface and you can clearly see in
(18:58):
these photos all too often thatyou know they're exhibiting
whale eye, their ears are back,they're like, they're tense, and
it just makes me makes mecringe, and I am also a forensic
expert witness for legal cases,so I've seen a lot of things
that I really wish I had neverseen.
So I think that's a reallyimportant point to make.
Amy Castro (19:22):
Yeah, and you feel bad for the family or the
parents when that happens, butat the same time, you created
that scenario and allowed it tohappen.
They just they didn't know anybetter.
But you need to do yourhomework.
We did an episode aboutchoosing the right dog for you
and it's like you know you'rebasically you're inviting this
animal to live with you for 15years.
You probably do more homeworkon the shoes that you buy than
(19:43):
the dog that you bring home,just because it was allowing
certain things or certain thingsflew when it was a puppy and it
couldn't you know, it didn'tknow any better.
And then it comes to adulthoodor hits those teen years and
it's a whole different ball ofwax, and so you really need to
know what you're doing.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (20:00):
Yeah, and it also comes down to expectations
Like what?
What's your reason for gettinga pet?
Is it companionship, is it forshow, as a show dog?
And sometimes our expectationsdon't align.
It's sort of the typicalexample would be selecting a
large breed animal and when youlive in an apartment and you
(20:21):
can't necessarily like, if youcan get the dog out for
appropriate exercise and give itwhat it means daily, that's
acceptable.
But if you can't, you shiftyour perspective to like a
smaller breed dog that doesn'trequire as much exercise or can
express its behaviors moreeasily and in that environment.
So I think it also comes downto finding the right fit and
(20:44):
having realistic expectationsand also what understanding,
what the goal is for having apet and if you can provide from
the outset.
Amy Castro (20:54):
Yeah.
So I highly encourage if that'sringing a bell with anybody for
people to go back and check outthat episode on how to choose
the right dog for you, becausewe talked all about that in
depth and it is so important.
You know people, people areswayed by what they see in a
movie.
Or what does my neighbor have?
What's the hot thing now?
You know, french bulldog doodle, whatever it might be.
I mean, I almost cringe when Isee movies come out.
(21:15):
There was a movie that came outa while back that had a military
working dog, a Malinois, and Ithought, good Lord, please don't
let everybody go out and startgetting Mals, because that is
not a dog for everybody.
It needs a lot and most peopledon't have the time or energy to
give a Mal what it needs.
So, along those same lines astrying to get an animal like a
(21:38):
dog and I will be the first oneto admit that I have done a
terrible job getting my dogs outand about taking them to events
, so when they go out they actlike idiots, they get all
overwrought and drooling andjust overly excited.
I have four dogs, so a coupleof them I might take to, let's
say, a big dog event.
You know, super cute thing inGolden, colorado recently where
(21:59):
it was like golden retrieverseverywhere.
I was like what could be betterthan that?
But you know, some dogs canhandle prime time like that and
some can't.
And so part of my hang up, Iguess, about this whole
anthropomorphizing of pets iswhen you think this is my child,
this is my family member, iswhen you think this is my child,
(22:20):
this is my family member, andas a family we're going to this
event.
But maybe the event is not theappropriate environment.
I went to one, probably about ayear or so, I won't name it
because it was a lovely eventand it was very well organized.
But as I'm sitting therewatching potential disaster upon
potential disaster uponpotential disaster, because
there are some dogs that arejust not going to do well in an
environment like that and theowner's oblivious, you know
(22:41):
they're, they're drinking theirbeer, they're talking with the
other person, the dog's on aflexi leash, 50 feet behind them
and I'm thinking someone'sgoing to die.
So what do we think about, youknow, as far as you know,
wanting to bring our petseverywhere or to have them adapt
to our schedules, like I'mgoing to go out with friends for
a beer at 10 o'clock at night.
Is it okay to do that?
Should we leave them at home,like what's the right thing?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (23:03):
to do.
It depends on the animal right,and every animal is different
and there are some dogs who arevery social and do very well in
environments where there's lotsof people, and then there are
dogs who are very triggered bythat and are fearful or fear
aggressive, with many differentstimuli, whether it's noises,
(23:25):
it's strangers, it's being in aconfined environment.
It's just a lot ofunpredictable movement.
And so one thing that hasalways, you know, been a big
problem is when people are likeyou know what I need to
socialize my dog and put them inthese situations so that
they'll get over their fears,and that's called flooding, and
(23:49):
that type of exposure is usuallymakes things worse and it goes
the other direction.
And that's where we, like yousaid, that's where problems
arise and it's sort of like, youknow, if you were
claustrophobic and you came overto my house and I stuffed you
in a closet like you'd neverwant to come to my house again,
that's not going to help you,right?
Exactly, I would.
I would never do that, but justas a silly example, yeah, you
(24:13):
should be so paying attention toyour animal and and trying to
avoid those things that aretriggering, and then work on
them and if you recognize thatthere's an issue.
And you know, obviously we allhave our human needs and desires
, but we have to keep in mindthat that may not be what's best
for the pet and some animalsare happier at home and with
(24:39):
maybe select individuals thatare familiar to them and are
predictable to them.
And that's not to say you can'twork on it.
But there's a differencebetween exposure flooding in
that way versus systematic andgradual desensitization and
counter conditioning, which isbasically like the meat and
bones of changing a negativeemotional response to a positive
(25:02):
one.
So if your cat is afraid ofvisitors, and you know, every
time your visitor comes over,the tuna comes out and they
learn to associate like, oh good, things happen, but it's on
their terms.
They can come out if they wantto.
It's not a party.
So sometimes we have to adjustour lifestyle and environment to
(25:22):
meet the pet's needs and othertimes we just need to recognize
that it's okay to manage, it'sokay to avoid certain things.
We don't have to fix everything.
Sometimes it's a matter ofmeeting our pets halfway and
knowing that they're just likepeople in a way, like they have
differences that sometimes wecan help them to overcome
(25:45):
through, you know, eitherchanging our interactions or the
environment, addressing anymedical concerns.
There's lots of things that wecan do, but sometimes, you know,
we reach a point where we haveto meet them halfway you know,
we reach a point where we haveto meet them halfway.
Amy Castro (26:00):
Well, I think everybody's safety.
You know there's a, on many,many levels, wonderful six year
old blind pit bull that I'mfostering for the last two years
and it probably is going to endup being my dog because I've
been struggling to find somebodythat is an appropriate adopter,
that can meet her halfway, kindof like what you said.
She's already proven thattaking her to, let's say, an
adoption event I mean she'scompletely blind and so taking
(26:21):
her to an adoption event wherethere is other dogs, which she's
great with other dogs I meanwe've got four dogs and three
cats running around this houseand she's fine with everybody,
but it's in her environment,it's not in a random environment
with random strangers, randomvoices coming at her from 50
different directions.
She does not do well in thosesituations.
(26:43):
She wouldn't do well at a party, and so it's like I need to
find that person that is ahermit.
No kids, no dogs, no kids, nodogs, you know.
But but really just you knowsomebody that would be willing?
Like when you have people, likewe do, we have people come over
, she's in her crate and most ofthe time time everybody else is
in their crater outside andthen gradually, one at a time,
we meet.
You know, we don't introduceher to the whole party of people
(27:03):
and it's a process to help heradapt and get comfortable.
And sometimes she does.
And sometimes with certainpeople I can tell there's like
this little low growl or she'sjust not comfortable and then
she just goes back to thebedroom.
It's fine.
She doesn't have to be out withevery single person.
I figured that out.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (27:23):
Instead of forcing the issue and then
learning the hard way that it'snot going to work.
That's right, and then it's.
You know the things that theydon't have to do, right.
Like, okay, yes, exercise isreally important, but I have a
number of patients who areabsolutely terrified of going
for walks.
But the pet parent has beentold you have to take your dog
for a walk because exercise is ayou know, it's a need that they
have.
And then you sort of have tohave that conversation about
(27:45):
okay, well, yes, exercise isvery important.
However, we have to take intoconsideration the fact that
every time your dog goes out fora walk, they're afraid of
noises, they're afraid ofskateboards, they want to go
home, they're petrified.
So is this really what's bestfor this particular animal?
And are there other ways thatwe can provide enrichment and
(28:06):
exercise in an environment thatis not so scary?
And I think that there are.
There are other.
You know, sometimes it'sdifficult, there's no yard, so
it can be challenging, butthere's usually creative
solutions to be able to providethat mental and physical
enrichment and activity withoutputting these expectations on
(28:29):
the animal, that they starts todisrupt the human animal bond
and then it creates feelings ofguilt because there's
conflicting motivations for thepet parent, where they want to
do what's best for their animaland they've been given different
(28:50):
information, and that can bereally hard.
Amy Castro (28:53):
Forcing a shy child to go to a birthday party that
they don't want to go to, andit's like yeah, I'm gonna go
because I'm gonna look bad ifyou don't go to this party, and
then the kid will prove to youhow shy they are, and it's you
know it's going to end up beinga fiasco anyway.
So and I would assume thatobviously that would be
something that if I had ananimal like that and but and I
(29:16):
wanted to work towards gettingthem out more or getting them
around other people, that'swhere I would come and see you
so that you can guide me indoing that the right way and not
over what did you call it?
Flooding them and then makingthe situation worse.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (29:30):
Yes, exactly .
And then I always tell I liketo make this point in every
single podcast or conversationthat I have with pet parents or
other professionals about thefact that physical and emotional
well-being of animals isintertwined and intrinsically
connected.
So if an animal is showingsigns of stress or any kind of
(29:50):
behavioral issue aggression ormarking behavior, unwanted
urination there's so manymedical conditions that are
underlying behavioral issues andespecially pain.
There's studies that have shownthat a large proportion of
animals with behavioral issueshave underlying pain, whether
(30:12):
it's, you know, orthopedicissues, and even dogs with noise
phobias, like you would neverthink they're in pain.
So that's the first thing.
It's not just about addressingtheir behavior with changing the
environment or withdesensitization and counter
conditioning.
Yes, you have to do often bothright, you address the medical
and the behavioral concurrently.
(30:32):
But if there's a change inbehavior in your animal, whether
it's a younger or older animal,if there's something that's out
of character, especially inolder animals, we always want to
make sure that we're ruling outunderlying medical issues.
And you speak to yourveterinarian, take your pet to
the vet, have a physical examperformed and whatever
(30:54):
diagnostics are recommended atthat time.
Baseline lab work is usually agood place to start.
But it really depends on whatthe issue is to make sure that
there isn't anything else thatcould be causing that behavior
problem or change or challengeor whatever it is, because at
that point if there's somethingmedical not to say that it
doesn't matter what else you do,but you can't ignore that the
(31:18):
behavior problem is not going toresolve itself if you don't
address the physical component.
Amy Castro (31:25):
If that's a problem, yeah, yeah, so that brings me
to another question with the,you know, when you were talking
about the behavior and thephysical and I've been guilty of
it myself, you know I have saidto my dogs you did that on
purpose, didn't you?
Or you know, you're mad at mebecause of blah, blah, blah, or
look at that guilty face.
What are your thoughts alongthe lines of us attributing
(31:47):
human motive?
The guilty face?
Uh, you know.
So that means that youdefinitely knew what you did was
wrong by tearing that up,because when I say gunny, what
did you do?
And you go, you know, and youkind of make that, that look,
that it's like a human emotionin that way, or the whole.
We call it revenge, pissingaround here.
But it's like, you know, youintentionally didn't use that
(32:09):
litter box because you were mad,because I did blah, blah, blah,
so you peed on my bed and it'slike do they?
have motive like that?
Or are we all just nuts tryingto attribute human motive?
We're all just nuts, we're justnuts.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (32:22):
Yeah, I mean anthropomorphism is like that's
sort of like the typical thing,I think.
When I think anthropomorphismis like that sort of like the
typical thing, I think when Ithink anthropomorphism is
assuming that dogs have thisinherent knowledge of moral code
of human life, you know thisunderstanding of our experience
too and how we might perceivesomething.
(32:43):
I think animals are just doingwhat is natural most of the time
for them and they don't knownecessarily that they're
unacceptable to the human.
And so you know when cats Ihear it all the time you know if
a cat pees on the bed or inunwanted areas it's mad at you
know the person, but or it's outof spite.
And when we attribute humanemotions, thoughts or intentions
(33:05):
to animals may come from thatplace of love.
But it can sometimes lead tomisunderstandings about why the
pet's actually behaving that wayand what the actual function of
that behavior is.
And many pet parents do believethat when their dog is looking,
looks guilty after doingsomething wrong, that the dog
must have, must know thatthey've misbehaved or they feel
ashamed of it.
(33:26):
But what's really happeningusually is that the dog is
showing these typical fearful orsubmissive signs.
Where they're, you know,they're cowering, they're sort
of hunkering down or their earsare back and they're kind of
looking up at their owners andthat is interpreted as guilt,
but really they're reacting tothe owner's behavior.
So there is actually aninteresting study.
(33:49):
They looked at 14 pet dogs intheir owner's home and each dog
was given a treat and the ownerinstructed the dog not to eat a
treat and the owner left theroom.
Sometimes the dog obeyed anddidn't eat the treat and other
times the dog ate the treat,which was secretly arranged by
the researcher.
And in some cases the owner wastold that their dog ate the
treat, even if they didn't, andthey scolded the dog.
(34:14):
So you know they were lookingat whether the dog looked more
quote guilty when they actuallyhad done something versus when
they hadn't, and they recordedthe dog's behavior and to see
what they would do when theirowners returned.
And the dogs did not lookguilty more often when they
actually disobeyed them whenthey did, and instead they had
that look or that submissiveposture when they were scolded,
(34:36):
whether they ate the treat ornot.
So it just means that when weinterpret that look as guilt,
it's actually a response to ourreaction, not the dog feeling
guilt or shame.
It's really a fearful response.
I'm glad that you brought thatup.
Amy Castro (34:52):
Well, and that you know.
A good test of that is if youwalk out, to like, if I walked
out now and I said what did youdo?
And I looked at anybody, they'dall look guilty.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (34:59):
Yeah, but sometimes even if it happened in
the past and there's not.
You know you're not currentlyusing that tone because now
you're more cognizant and you'retrying to change the
interaction they can still have.
They have memory right and sothey, depending on the context
in which it happened before andnow they have a memory of what
(35:19):
happened before.
So they react in the same wayregardless of how you react, and
so that can be confusing.
So that's why we go back intothe history and say, oh, what
was your reaction to thisbehavior in the past?
And that's where the piecessometimes come into place.
But I have many, many clientswho are doing most things right.
You know they've done great andprovide for their dogs, they
(35:41):
understand their dog's triggers,they try to avoid them, they've
tried to work on them, they usepositive reinforcement, they're
not punishing their dogs.
So they're doing so many thingsright.
And there's still thesebehaviors that are causing
unhappiness in the household,both for the pet and the pet
parent, and many times it doeshave to do with the interaction
between the pet parent and theanimal or the environment, but
(36:03):
it can go well beyond that.
You know, sometimes it's justthe animal and their genetics
and their early experience thatshapes their later behavior that
has really nothing to do withthe current environment or pet
parent.
So I think that sometimes wefeel responsible and we feel
guilty and I have to tell peoplethis isn't your fault.
(36:24):
Don't listen to people who sayit's all about the human and and
there's something wrong withthe human.
No, it really bothers me,actually, because that's not the
case and sometimes it is, butevery case is different, right,
and so that's where we have tolook at the individual
circumstances and the historyand and also again understand is
(36:46):
there something abnormal aboutthis dog?
Is there an underlying medicalreason?
Is there a neurologic reason?
There's things that go beyondthe human and it doesn't really
matter what we do.
Amy Castro (37:01):
Yeah, it's not our fault.
So, to bring all this together,let's kind of talk about some
final thoughts or final advice.
To bring all this together,let's kind of talk about some
final thoughts or final advice.
I would like to encouragepeople to find that balance
between letting, like I said inthe beginning, letting dogs be
dogs and cats be cats, andmaking sure that we are creating
environments that allow them todo that and scenarios that
allow them to do that.
But at the same time, I willacquiesce to you about meeting
(37:24):
my human need of getting what Iget out of, like putting clothes
on my dog or taking them out toplaces with me.
What's your best advice forfinding that balance, you know?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (37:35):
when it comes to like spoiling our pets
because I know that comes up alot I think the distinction lies
between needs and wants, and apet's needs are tied to its
natural species, specificbehaviors, and we should ask
ourselves what does this animalneed to express its normal
behaviors while living in ahuman home?
And, for example, cats needopportunities to climb and
scratch and chase and play andhunt.
(37:56):
And some cats enjoy hiding inboxes, while others want to be
up high.
Typically luxury items and thethings that I think maybe you're
referring to aren't essentialfor the pet.
They're more of a human wantmaybe you're referring to aren't
essential for the pet.
They're more of a human want.
So when deciding what toprovide for the pet, I focus on
functionality and how the itemmeets the pet's behavioral or
(38:17):
physical needs.
So, for example, a cat doesn'tcare if its scratching post
costs $10 or $70, as long as itfulfills the purpose of
scratching, you don't need tospend a lot of money on fancy
toys.
Cats enjoy playing with paperballs and hiding in cardboard
boxes.
That said, I'd like to thinkthat spoiling our pets really
means that we're going above andbeyond to ensure their
well-being and, in reality,meeting their needs isn't really
(38:40):
spoiling at all.
It's essential.
No such thing as too muchenrichment.
The more opportunities fornatural behaviors the better,
but when a pet's naturalbehaviors aren't met they can
develop behavior problems thatare problematic to humans.
So I think that for pet parentswho provide luxury items that
don't necessarily satisfy afunctional need, it's about the
(39:02):
human animal bond right.
And when we spoil our pets, aslong as it's not harmful and
even if it's reflecting a humandesire to indulge our pets, to
fulfill our own emotional needto feel closer to them, that's
perfectly okay, as long as we'realso meeting all the pet's
behavioral needs and there's noharm in what we're providing.
And at the end of the day, thathuman-animal bond is why we
(39:24):
have pets and that's what it'sall about.
So if a little spoilingstrengthens that bond, then I'm
all for it, as long as we'redoing all the other things that
we need to do.
Amy Castro (39:32):
Hey, I've been giving my dogs cookies to this
past week and when they come inand they've done their business
outside in the morning,everybody comes to the kitchen
and sits and gets a littlesomething.
I'm trying to be nice.
That's good.
Yeah, that's probably.
The problem is that I've got somany that nobody.
I almost have lost touch withmy own pets in treating them
like a herd.
You know, it's like theirresponsibility as opposed to a
(39:55):
joyful addition to the household.
But now that we have scaled therescue way back, trying to
reconnect with them a little bit, yeah, you see them in a
different light.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (40:04):
Like, give them toys, give them treats,
give them all those things.
Just, you know, obviously youhave to make sure that they have
a complete and balanced dietand you're not you're staying
with it, but but also makingsure that you know what that
particular animal is motivatedby, right, is it attention, is
it toys, is it treats?
And provide those things, thatis for sure.
Amy Castro (40:24):
So are there any resources that you recommend for
pet parents to do a better jobat pet parenting along these
lines?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (40:31):
Yeah, a couple of resources I can
mention in terms of books.
There's two books One is calledDecoding your Cat and one is
Decoding your Dog, and they'recollaborations by different
board certified veterinarybehaviorists, so it's put out by
the American College ofVeterinary Behaviorists.
So you know I would start there.
Also, I have some educationalresources and support for pet
(40:55):
parents.
I have a Facebook page, so it'sBehavior Medicine, support for
Pet Parents, and there's alsosome YouTube link and Instagram.
And then the American Collegeof Veterinary Behaviorists has a
list of all the veterinarybehaviorists available in the
country, and so if you're tryingto locate someone, you can go
(41:16):
onto their website as well, andthey have also some resources
for pet parents.
Amy Castro (41:24):
Well, Dr Malamed, thank you so much for being here
with us today and putting me onthe right path.
Between you know, as opposed tothe war path that I was on
already with this hang up that Ihad about pets being pets and
being able to act like pets, Ithink you've shown us that we
can find a good balance ofmeeting our needs through our
pets and meeting our pets needsas well.
(41:45):
So I really appreciate youbeing here and sharing your
expertise and experience.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (41:50):
Well, thank you for having me and thank you
for all that you do as well withyour rescue work.
Amy Castro (41:55):
So rescue world is a crazy world.
Thank you, I appreciate that,and thank you to everybody for
listening to another episode ofMuddy Paws and Hairballs.
Take this week, take theopportunity to listen to this
episode, maybe listen to itagain and implement some of the
things that we talked about, sothat you and your pet are living
your best lives and living themwell together, and we will see
(42:17):
you next week.
Thanks for listening to MuddyPaws and Hairballs.
Be sure to visit our website atmuddypawsandhairballscom for
more resources and be sure tofollow this podcast on your
favorite podcast app so you'llnever miss a show.
And hey, if you like this show,text someone right now and say
I've got a podcastrecommendation.
You need to check the show outand tell them to listen and let
(42:38):
you know what they think.
Don't forget to tune in nextweek and every week for a brand
new episode.
And if you don't do anythingelse this week, give your pets a
big hug from us.
Think you're giving your pets the best life just
because you shower them withtreats, cuddles and cozy beds.
What if I told you that whatyour pet truly needs goes beyond
pampering?
One of the reasons we rebrandedthis show as Muddy Paws and
Hairballs is to highlight asimple truth Look, dogs need to
be dogs and cats need to be cats.
So in today's episode, we'rediving into what really makes
(00:22):
pets happy and mentally healthy,and it's not always what we
think.
You'll hear from a veterinarypsychiatrist with nearly two
decades of experience as weexplore how to truly respect our
pets for the animals that theyare, rather than treating them
like human babies.
If you want a happier, morebalanced pet, you're not going
to want to miss thisconversation.
Stay tuned, that's right.
(00:44):
There is so much more to givingyour pets a great life than
just spoiling them with treatsand cozy beds.
Welcome to Muddy Paws andHairballs, the podcast.
That's all about embracing petsfor the animals they truly are.
I'm Amy Castro and today I'mjoined by Dr Rachel Malamed, a
veterinary psychiatrist with 18years of experience and one of
only about 100 specialists whoare board certified by the
(01:05):
American College of VeterinaryBehaviorists.
She earned her Doctor ofVeterinary Medicine from the
Ontario Veterinary College in2005 before moving from Toronto
to Los Angeles, where shecompleted an internship at a
specialty and emergencyveterinary hospital, followed by
three years residency inclinical behavior medicine at UC
Davis.
Dr Malamed owns a veterinarypsychiatry practice in Los
(01:27):
Angeles that is dedicated to thephysical and emotional
well-being of pets.
She also serves as a forensicexpert witness in legal cases
involving animal behavior andhas contributed to several
leading behavior medicine books,including Decoding your Cat.
So, dr Malamed, welcome to theshow.
Thank you for having me.
I appreciate you making the timeto do this because, as I said
(01:49):
to you in the quote unquotegreen room before we got started
, that I was a bit on a tearwhen I decided I wanted to do an
episode on this subject, andmaybe it's just because I'm old
and can't relate and I love mypets.
I don't want anyone to thinkthat I don't love my pets and
that I don't care for them as ifthey're family, but I had been
reading a lot of things aboutpeople who really treat their
(02:12):
pets like they would treat humanchildren and some of the
problems that can arise fromdoing that, and I think maybe I
blew it up bigger in my head andI thought we're going to do
this episode and we're going totell them all they're wrong and
they're stupid and they need todo this.
And you were so nice and kindwhen we had our first
conversation and you're like,well, hold on a minute here.
You know, if there's no harmhappening, then there's no harm
(02:33):
happening.
And so I was glad to have thatconversation because it allowed
me to kind of rein in thisepisode, to finding a little
more balance, because I thinkeverybody's objective in the end
is just doing the best fortheir pet and loving them, right
, right, I love this topic.
So, yeah, thank you.
No, yeah, good, and I'm glad.
Yeah, I think it's justsomething that's important for
(02:55):
people to hear both sides ofthings.
You know, maybe people could bedoing a little bit better and
giving their pets what they needand, you know, maybe putting a
little less pressure onthemselves even to try to live
up to some standard that theythink that they have to have for
caring for their pets.
So what exactly does aveterinary behaviorist or a
veterinary psychiatrist do?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (03:16):
So we are veterinarians first and foremost
and then we've gone on to doanother three years of
veterinary residency training inthe field of clinical
behavioral medicine.
We're like psychiatrists foranimals and we pass a two-day
rigorous examination to becomeboard certified by the American
(03:37):
College of VeterinaryBehaviorists.
So in addition to being able todiagnose and treat medical
issues that contribute tobehavior changes or behaviors in
general, we have extensiveknowledge and expertise in
advanced learning theory,behavior modification techniques
, normal abnormal behavior,psychopharmacology and use of
(03:57):
those medications.
We kind of put everythingtogether to address the physical
and the emotional and mentalneeds of the pet and try to
figure out what is causing thatbehavior or motivating that
behavior.
And we're looking at the wholepet, not just the physical and
not just the behavioral, buteverything together.
Amy Castro (04:21):
So and we're lumping in a bunch of different things
dogs, cats and pets in general.
But I always have this thinkingprocess along the lines of as
an animal it has certain needs,a certain species has certain
needs, certain breeds havecertain needs, and so if you
kind of look at that as anumbrella thing, you know, dogs
versus cats, let's say, do theyhave different psychological
(04:45):
needs?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (04:46):
Yeah, I mean they're fundamentally different
in terms of their socialstructures and their
communication styles and speciesspecific behaviors and
instinctual behaviors.
They've sort of adapted indifferent ways and so we have to
understand these differences,of course, to provide them with
the appropriate enrichment andtraining and care that align
(05:09):
with their natural tendenciesand how they communicate, their
body language, theirsocialization, all of those
species differences hadn'treally thought about that
previously.
Amy Castro (05:24):
I kind of lumped my pets as my pets and they're
living in my house and you know,my, my cats are only indoors.
So there's a certain element tothat.
But I never really thoughtabout their enrichment until I
started doing the show really,and and doing rescue, you know,
thinking about their enrichmentneeds.
Even my darn dogs, like I kindof figured, okay, we've got a
big piece of property.
I opened the back door, they gooutside, they run around, and
it wasn't until I started divinginto this subject and we've
(05:46):
talked before on the show aboutenrichment and just a simple
change.
Like recently, I have beentaking them out in the front
yard, which is also fenced, butit's just normally.
I just let them out back, letthem do their thing.
But in the evenings we'vestarted going out front and you
would think that I was takingthem to Disney World.
For goodness sakes.
It's almost like food time.
They get all antsy, everybody'sover by the front door and I
(06:09):
think it's just different place,different smells, and I just
never really thought about theirwell-being from that standpoint
.
I thought, ok, I love them, I'mcaring for them, I'm feeding
them, but there's more to itthan that, right?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (06:21):
Yeah, I mean they have.
I mean cats in particular.
Well, dogs and cats, but youknow, they need to hunt, they
need to forage, they need toclimb, they need to perch, they
need to hide, they need to doall of these things and adding
(06:45):
complexity to their environmentand thinking about the function
of the enrichment that we'reproviding, it's actually
providing a need that they haveto perform these
species-specific behaviors.
And so when you let your doginto the backyard to sniff or
run or fetch or whatever they'redoing, it's a need that they
have.
And when we don't providesuitable enrichment
opportunities or opportunitiesfor animals to express their
species-specific or innatebehaviors, that's when we start
to have challenges orproblematic behaviors to the pet
(07:09):
parent.
Perhaps the behavior itself isfunctional and normal for the
animal, but from the person'spoint of view, and sometimes
those behaviors are completelynormal adaptations but because
the animal hasn't been providedwith those appropriate
opportunities or suitableoutlets, we start to see other
(07:31):
expressions that are notacceptable to the human.
Amy Castro (07:35):
Like what would be an example of that, like the
first thing that comes to mindas somebody who I do a lot of
dog introductions with.
You know, we've got a rescuedog and we're trying to
introduce it to the people's dogand you just see people like
their dogs interact in the storeand what do dogs do?
Right?
They go right to the other dog,butt and sniff and they're all
up in there, right, and thepeople are like no, no, don't do
(07:55):
that.
And I'm like that's whatthey're supposed to do.
And that's just one example.
Is it harmful if people don'tallow their dog to do that?
Just?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (08:07):
as an example, to greet another dog in
that way.
Well, I mean, that's just theirnatural behavior.
So I think that putting ourhuman expectations and obviously
you know, I think a lot abouthow humans greet dogs as an
example the way that we approachanimals is really a human
paradigm and we do what'snatural to us.
For example, like you know,it's natural when you meet
(08:28):
another human, especially in aprofessional environment, like
you would reach out your hand,shake their hand, or perhaps you
know when you're having guestscome over, you will give them a
hug or whatever that is.
But for you know, when yougreet an animal, that could be
perceived as a threat.
But you know, we commonly huganimals and pet animals and
reach for animals and approachthem head on and make direct eye
(08:51):
contact, and in fact those areall things that are very
frequently.
Dogs can become very aggressiveor defensive, and sometimes
they can.
They can bite, and and then ofcourse, we sometimes get upset
by the fact that they'veexpressed that normal behavior
to a threat.
Right, that behavior has afunction, which is to usually to
(09:14):
increase distance fromsomething that is threatening.
So I think the point being isthat the way that we think about
greeting a dog is probably verydifferent than how they would
like to be greeted greeting adog is probably very different
than how they would like to begreeted.
Amy Castro (09:30):
Yeah, you know as kind of an offshoot of that.
As far as the response to thatis having the expectation that
your dog should allow thosetypes of things.
When it makes themuncomfortable too, it's like you
know it's.
It's not a human well and evenwith human kids.
You know now that I get ready tohave the words come out of my
mouth.
It's like if your kid is notcomfortable hugging rando
strangers, then you shouldn'tforce that, because there's a
whole thing behind that aboutyou know having their own
(09:53):
boundaries respected as theygrow in age and possibly opening
them up to being abused in someway by people because they've
been told they have to allowpeople that they don't want
touching them.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (10:03):
Touch them Because they've been told they
have to allow people that theydon't want touching them touch
them, and I think that's sort ofthe.
I mean, I would think that'ssort of the same thing with dogs
is that we need to learn torespect our dog's boundaries and
to encourage other people to doso too another podcast.
But you know we talk aboutconsent and watching for body
(10:25):
language and signs like is theanimal approaching us,
soliciting attention oraffection, or is it showing
signs that it's moving away ordoesn't want to be touched or
interacted with?
So we look for signs of consentand obviously animals
communicate differently thanhumans.
They use vocalizations and bodylanguage and we have to learn
(10:46):
to read that in order to knowwhether they feel uncomfortable
or whether they're fearful oranxious or defensive or stressed
or whatnot.
So I think that's veryimportant that sometimes people
are well-meaning in theirintentions and they assume that
dogs like to be pet or they wantto be approached, and cats too,
but they don't.
(11:07):
I think they may not have theawareness and that's really
important to start therebecoming aware of what is normal
canine and feline body languageand communication and
interpreting their signals in away that you know we can respond
appropriately signals in a waythat you know we can respond
appropriately.
Amy Castro (11:31):
Yeah, I think I used to volunteer at an animal
control facility and there was ashocking lack of knowledge, and
I'm certainly no animal bodylanguage experts.
But I have done research and Ihave learned a few things along
the way and it was amazing to mehow an animal would be labeled
aggressive for exhibiting whatshould be a normal natural
tendency or behavior based onthe fact that you've got some
you know six foot man that youdon't know, that's coming into
(11:52):
your cage like this, over thetop of your head, reaching for
you.
It's like you know, only thevery best natured and very you
know, maybe massively handledanimal who's experienced that
discomfort and gotten over it,maybe through its lifetime, is
going to put up with that.
Other than that, they're goingto respond with a fear response
or a fearful aggression, and oneof the tricky things I think is
(12:14):
trying to get people to respectthose boundaries.
When I'm doing introductionswith a maybe a shyer dog, I find
that people want to talk.
They talk so much they just runin their mouths and it's like
the dog's already scared.
Now you're this loud humanbeing and you're moving like
this, with your arms moving andyou're talking at this high
(12:35):
volume and then you're bendingover in their face.
It's like why can't we justshut up and be quiet, let the
dog come to you?
And it's just.
I think people like you said,their intentions are good and
they're excited and they'retrying to win that animal over,
but they're doing all the wrongthings, or they could be doing
all the wrong things, dependingupon the animal.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (12:53):
Right.
And then what happens is theanimals start to hide their
warning signs.
So a growl is a communicationlike I'm not comfortable with
that or you're threatening, moveaway from me, or maybe the dog
moves its body away, or whateverthe signal is.
But if we persist inapproaching the dog who just
growled or handling the dog whojust growled, that growl is
(13:15):
going to very quickly turn intoa bite and next time it's going
to happen a lot faster.
So that's you know where therole of practice and experience
and learning comes into play.
And when there's repeatednegative experiences, the humans
that don't respect orunderstand dog body language or
cat body language, those warningsigns progress.
(13:38):
Body language or cat bodylanguage, those warning signs
progress.
And that's where we haveproblems increased severity.
Amy Castro (13:45):
And then they come to see me yeah, there you go
Right, cause they've had aproblem.
They've had a problem or a badexperience.
And it's interesting too,because people, because their
knowledge is so limited, becauseI've had people say, well, oh,
I didn't get any warning, hedidn't growl, he didn't do this,
or his tail was wagging, andit's like okay, there's a big
difference between a tail wagand a tail wag, you know, when
(14:06):
it comes to a dog and there areother signs and we don't.
I don't want to turn this intoa body language class, but one
thing I think you know foreverybody that's listening that
has a dog, is do some researchon what some of those body
language elements would be thatyour animal is not comfortable.
Things like lip licking or theway that their eyes are rolled
in their head and yawning,things like that can all be
indications of discomfort andyou're just thinking that your
(14:28):
dog's licking its lips becauseits lips are dry.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (14:31):
Yeah, and it's the context too that you're
looking at the whole body inthe big picture, but also the
subtleties.
And I'm so glad that youmentioned the wagging the tail.
That's a big misconception andI have to point it out because
the more people that I canexplain this to, the better.
But the wagging tail always themisconception is that it means
happy, that the dog is happy andit wants to interact, and it
(14:53):
doesn't mean that.
So it can mean that.
It can mean that a dog iswilling to engage in a friendly
manner and you kind of look atthe whole body, is it, is it
wiggly, is it like you can?
But it doesn't always mean thatthe dog is happy and relaxed.
It could also mean that the dogis aroused or aggressive.
You know where you have thestiff, high wagging tail.
(15:14):
It can actually be a sign ofagitation.
So we have to be careful withthat.
I hear it all the time.
Oh, the dog looked friendly, soI approached it was wagging its
tail, and then we know whathappens next.
Amy Castro (15:29):
Yeah Well and I think you know you made a good
point too, because you know I,as somebody that teaches humans
communication, body language isa huge part of our communication
too, and we all know you cantell when somebody's got a fake
smile on their face or theysmile because they've been
trained that that's the politething to do, but nothing else
about their body language ortheir tone of voice or anything
(15:49):
else is saying I want tointeract with you.
Then usually we believe the bigpicture more than just that one
thing and I think we need tolook at that with our dogs and
our cats as well it's knowingthe signs.
And also you know how much ofit comes down to beyond species.
Individual personality of thepet or does breed play into some
of that as well?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (16:09):
Yeah, I mean it's behaviors, multifactorial.
It's.
Breed does play a role in.
Genetics plays a role,environment plays a role,
learning, early socialization orlack thereof, and also
potential medical issuesunderlying pain or discomfort or
abnormality.
So some behaviors aremaladaptive or they're abnormal.
(16:29):
Each animal is an individual,just like humans are all
individuals, and they may havecertain predispositions that we
definitely need to take intoconsideration that influence
their behavior.
But there's so much more to itthan just breed alone and
behavior is very fluid too.
Like you know, behaviors changeover time and depending on the
(16:53):
external trigger or environment,learning and also the internal
states of the animal.
So there's a lot.
It's very complex.
Amy Castro (17:03):
Yeah, I've seen that a lot with my bulldog.
She's probably nine now andearlier on, you know, several
years ago, because we run arescue and we have a ton of
different animals that comethrough this house, from, you
know, little baby kittens tovarious dogs, and she has
definitely become less tolerant.
I don't know if it's because Iknow she does have a bad knee, I
know she does have bad hips, soshe's gotten older, but she
(17:25):
used to be so tolerant.
Now she's very growly towardsanybody that's bothering her too
much, or kittens that aretrying to climb on her, and it's
doesn't feel all that great andshe doesn't want to put up with
their BS.
You know, like she's just kindof done and so I don't force her
.
And that's where I think peopleget into trouble is they were,
like you know, to tell her no,you're being bad, you know, and
(17:47):
to make her put up with that.
You were talking about thesigns and things and it's like
we see these videos all over theInternet and, again, I'm no
body language expert for dogsbut I can say, oh, that dog's
getting ready to, and then thenext thing that happens is the
person gets bitten in the faceand these videos of people that
are letting their kids climb onthe dog and use it as a you know
and pulling on the ears andlook how good he is.
(18:09):
It's like he shouldn't have tobe.
It's just going to be a matterof time when he's decided he's
had it and then it's going to behis yeah.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (18:15):
He's had it and then it's going to be his
fault.
Yeah, that makes me cringe whenI see, you know, photos of
babies climbing on dogs and Ihear remarks, you know, I want a
dog who will let my child doanything to it.
And that's not realisticbecause at the end of the day,
they're animals, they feel pain,they feel stress and children.
(18:36):
They treat animals as peers andthey don't.
They're not expected to know,and even parents they're not
expected to know or they don'tknow normal body language or how
to read those signals all thetime.
And when you have childrenflailing around or toddler age
running, they're unpredictableand they wrap their arms around
the dog or kiss the dog on theface and you can clearly see in
(18:58):
these photos all too often thatyou know they're exhibiting
whale eye, their ears are back,they're like, they're tense, and
it just makes me makes mecringe, and I am also a forensic
expert witness for legal cases,so I've seen a lot of things
that I really wish I had neverseen.
So I think that's a reallyimportant point to make.
Amy Castro (19:22):
Yeah, and you feel bad for the family or the
parents when that happens, butat the same time, you created
that scenario and allowed it tohappen.
They just they didn't know anybetter.
But you need to do yourhomework.
We did an episode aboutchoosing the right dog for you
and it's like you know you'rebasically you're inviting this
animal to live with you for 15years.
You probably do more homeworkon the shoes that you buy than
(19:43):
the dog that you bring home,just because it was allowing
certain things or certain thingsflew when it was a puppy and it
couldn't you know, it didn'tknow any better.
And then it comes to adulthoodor hits those teen years and
it's a whole different ball ofwax, and so you really need to
know what you're doing.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (20:00):
Yeah, and it also comes down to expectations
Like what?
What's your reason for gettinga pet?
Is it companionship, is it forshow, as a show dog?
And sometimes our expectationsdon't align.
It's sort of the typicalexample would be selecting a
large breed animal and when youlive in an apartment and you
(20:21):
can't necessarily like, if youcan get the dog out for
appropriate exercise and give itwhat it means daily, that's
acceptable.
But if you can't, you shiftyour perspective to like a
smaller breed dog that doesn'trequire as much exercise or can
express its behaviors moreeasily and in that environment.
So I think it also comes downto finding the right fit and
(20:44):
having realistic expectationsand also what understanding,
what the goal is for having apet and if you can provide from
the outset.
Amy Castro (20:54):
Yeah.
So I highly encourage if that'sringing a bell with anybody for
people to go back and check outthat episode on how to choose
the right dog for you, becausewe talked all about that in
depth and it is so important.
You know people, people areswayed by what they see in a
movie.
Or what does my neighbor have?
What's the hot thing now?
You know, french bulldog doodle, whatever it might be.
I mean, I almost cringe when Isee movies come out.
(21:15):
There was a movie that came outa while back that had a military
working dog, a Malinois, and Ithought, good Lord, please don't
let everybody go out and startgetting Mals, because that is
not a dog for everybody.
It needs a lot and most peopledon't have the time or energy to
give a Mal what it needs.
So, along those same lines astrying to get an animal like a
(21:38):
dog and I will be the first oneto admit that I have done a
terrible job getting my dogs outand about taking them to events
, so when they go out they actlike idiots, they get all
overwrought and drooling andjust overly excited.
I have four dogs, so a coupleof them I might take to, let's
say, a big dog event.
You know, super cute thing inGolden, colorado recently where
(21:59):
it was like golden retrieverseverywhere.
I was like what could be betterthan that?
But you know, some dogs canhandle prime time like that and
some can't.
And so part of my hang up, Iguess, about this whole
anthropomorphizing of pets iswhen you think this is my child,
this is my family member, iswhen you think this is my child,
(22:20):
this is my family member, andas a family we're going to this
event.
But maybe the event is not theappropriate environment.
I went to one, probably about ayear or so, I won't name it
because it was a lovely eventand it was very well organized.
But as I'm sitting therewatching potential disaster upon
potential disaster uponpotential disaster, because
there are some dogs that arejust not going to do well in an
environment like that and theowner's oblivious, you know
(22:41):
they're, they're drinking theirbeer, they're talking with the
other person, the dog's on aflexi leash, 50 feet behind them
and I'm thinking someone'sgoing to die.
So what do we think about, youknow, as far as you know,
wanting to bring our petseverywhere or to have them adapt
to our schedules, like I'mgoing to go out with friends for
a beer at 10 o'clock at night.
Is it okay to do that?
Should we leave them at home,like what's the right thing?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (23:03):
to do.
It depends on the animal right,and every animal is different
and there are some dogs who arevery social and do very well in
environments where there's lotsof people, and then there are
dogs who are very triggered bythat and are fearful or fear
aggressive, with many differentstimuli, whether it's noises,
(23:25):
it's strangers, it's being in aconfined environment.
It's just a lot ofunpredictable movement.
And so one thing that hasalways, you know, been a big
problem is when people are likeyou know what I need to
socialize my dog and put them inthese situations so that
they'll get over their fears,and that's called flooding, and
(23:49):
that type of exposure is usuallymakes things worse and it goes
the other direction.
And that's where we, like yousaid, that's where problems
arise and it's sort of like, youknow, if you were
claustrophobic and you came overto my house and I stuffed you
in a closet like you'd neverwant to come to my house again,
that's not going to help you,right?
Exactly, I would.
I would never do that, but justas a silly example, yeah, you
(24:13):
should be so paying attention toyour animal and and trying to
avoid those things that aretriggering, and then work on
them and if you recognize thatthere's an issue.
And you know, obviously we allhave our human needs and desires
, but we have to keep in mindthat that may not be what's best
for the pet and some animalsare happier at home and with
(24:39):
maybe select individuals thatare familiar to them and are
predictable to them.
And that's not to say you can'twork on it.
But there's a differencebetween exposure flooding in
that way versus systematic andgradual desensitization and
counter conditioning, which isbasically like the meat and
bones of changing a negativeemotional response to a positive
(25:02):
one.
So if your cat is afraid ofvisitors, and you know, every
time your visitor comes over,the tuna comes out and they
learn to associate like, oh good, things happen, but it's on
their terms.
They can come out if they wantto.
It's not a party.
So sometimes we have to adjustour lifestyle and environment to
(25:22):
meet the pet's needs and othertimes we just need to recognize
that it's okay to manage, it'sokay to avoid certain things.
We don't have to fix everything.
Sometimes it's a matter ofmeeting our pets halfway and
knowing that they're just likepeople in a way, like they have
differences that sometimes wecan help them to overcome
(25:45):
through, you know, eitherchanging our interactions or the
environment, addressing anymedical concerns.
There's lots of things that wecan do, but sometimes, you know,
we reach a point where we haveto meet them halfway you know,
we reach a point where we haveto meet them halfway.
Amy Castro (26:00):
Well, I think everybody's safety.
You know there's a, on many,many levels, wonderful six year
old blind pit bull that I'mfostering for the last two years
and it probably is going to endup being my dog because I've
been struggling to find somebodythat is an appropriate adopter,
that can meet her halfway, kindof like what you said.
She's already proven thattaking her to, let's say, an
adoption event I mean she'scompletely blind and so taking
(26:21):
her to an adoption event wherethere is other dogs, which she's
great with other dogs I meanwe've got four dogs and three
cats running around this houseand she's fine with everybody,
but it's in her environment,it's not in a random environment
with random strangers, randomvoices coming at her from 50
different directions.
She does not do well in thosesituations.
(26:43):
She wouldn't do well at a party, and so it's like I need to
find that person that is ahermit.
No kids, no dogs, no kids, nodogs, you know.
But but really just you knowsomebody that would be willing?
Like when you have people, likewe do, we have people come over
, she's in her crate and most ofthe time time everybody else is
in their crater outside andthen gradually, one at a time,
we meet.
You know, we don't introduceher to the whole party of people
(27:03):
and it's a process to help heradapt and get comfortable.
And sometimes she does.
And sometimes with certainpeople I can tell there's like
this little low growl or she'sjust not comfortable and then
she just goes back to thebedroom.
It's fine.
She doesn't have to be out withevery single person.
I figured that out.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (27:23):
Instead of forcing the issue and then
learning the hard way that it'snot going to work.
That's right, and then it's.
You know the things that theydon't have to do, right.
Like, okay, yes, exercise isreally important, but I have a
number of patients who areabsolutely terrified of going
for walks.
But the pet parent has beentold you have to take your dog
for a walk because exercise is ayou know, it's a need that they
have.
And then you sort of have tohave that conversation about
(27:45):
okay, well, yes, exercise isvery important.
However, we have to take intoconsideration the fact that
every time your dog goes out fora walk, they're afraid of
noises, they're afraid ofskateboards, they want to go
home, they're petrified.
So is this really what's bestfor this particular animal?
And are there other ways thatwe can provide enrichment and
(28:06):
exercise in an environment thatis not so scary?
And I think that there are.
There are other.
You know, sometimes it'sdifficult, there's no yard, so
it can be challenging, butthere's usually creative
solutions to be able to providethat mental and physical
enrichment and activity withoutputting these expectations on
(28:29):
the animal, that they starts todisrupt the human animal bond
and then it creates feelings ofguilt because there's
conflicting motivations for thepet parent, where they want to
do what's best for their animaland they've been given different
(28:50):
information, and that can bereally hard.
Amy Castro (28:53):
Forcing a shy child to go to a birthday party that
they don't want to go to, andit's like yeah, I'm gonna go
because I'm gonna look bad ifyou don't go to this party, and
then the kid will prove to youhow shy they are, and it's you
know it's going to end up beinga fiasco anyway.
So and I would assume thatobviously that would be
something that if I had ananimal like that and but and I
(29:16):
wanted to work towards gettingthem out more or getting them
around other people, that'swhere I would come and see you
so that you can guide me indoing that the right way and not
over what did you call it?
Flooding them and then makingthe situation worse.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (29:30):
Yes, exactly .
And then I always tell I liketo make this point in every
single podcast or conversationthat I have with pet parents or
other professionals about thefact that physical and emotional
well-being of animals isintertwined and intrinsically
connected.
So if an animal is showingsigns of stress or any kind of
(29:50):
behavioral issue aggression ormarking behavior, unwanted
urination there's so manymedical conditions that are
underlying behavioral issues andespecially pain.
There's studies that have shownthat a large proportion of
animals with behavioral issueshave underlying pain, whether
(30:12):
it's, you know, orthopedicissues, and even dogs with noise
phobias, like you would neverthink they're in pain.
So that's the first thing.
It's not just about addressingtheir behavior with changing the
environment or withdesensitization and counter
conditioning.
Yes, you have to do often bothright, you address the medical
and the behavioral concurrently.
(30:32):
But if there's a change inbehavior in your animal, whether
it's a younger or older animal,if there's something that's out
of character, especially inolder animals, we always want to
make sure that we're ruling outunderlying medical issues.
And you speak to yourveterinarian, take your pet to
the vet, have a physical examperformed and whatever
(30:54):
diagnostics are recommended atthat time.
Baseline lab work is usually agood place to start.
But it really depends on whatthe issue is to make sure that
there isn't anything else thatcould be causing that behavior
problem or change or challengeor whatever it is, because at
that point if there's somethingmedical not to say that it
doesn't matter what else you do,but you can't ignore that the
(31:18):
behavior problem is not going toresolve itself if you don't
address the physical component.
Amy Castro (31:25):
If that's a problem, yeah, yeah, so that brings me
to another question with the,you know, when you were talking
about the behavior and thephysical and I've been guilty of
it myself, you know I have saidto my dogs you did that on
purpose, didn't you?
Or you know, you're mad at mebecause of blah, blah, blah, or
look at that guilty face.
What are your thoughts alongthe lines of us attributing
(31:47):
human motive?
The guilty face?
Uh, you know.
So that means that youdefinitely knew what you did was
wrong by tearing that up,because when I say gunny, what
did you do?
And you go, you know, and youkind of make that, that look,
that it's like a human emotionin that way, or the whole.
We call it revenge, pissingaround here.
But it's like, you know, youintentionally didn't use that
(32:09):
litter box because you were mad,because I did blah, blah, blah,
so you peed on my bed and it'slike do they?
have motive like that?
Or are we all just nuts tryingto attribute human motive?
We're all just nuts, we're justnuts.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (32:22):
Yeah, I mean anthropomorphism is like that's
sort of like the typical thing,I think.
When I think anthropomorphismis like that sort of like the
typical thing, I think when Ithink anthropomorphism is
assuming that dogs have thisinherent knowledge of moral code
of human life, you know thisunderstanding of our experience
too and how we might perceivesomething.
(32:43):
I think animals are just doingwhat is natural most of the time
for them and they don't knownecessarily that they're
unacceptable to the human.
And so you know when cats Ihear it all the time you know if
a cat pees on the bed or inunwanted areas it's mad at you
know the person, but or it's outof spite.
And when we attribute humanemotions, thoughts or intentions
(33:05):
to animals may come from thatplace of love.
But it can sometimes lead tomisunderstandings about why the
pet's actually behaving that wayand what the actual function of
that behavior is.
And many pet parents do believethat when their dog is looking,
looks guilty after doingsomething wrong, that the dog
must have, must know thatthey've misbehaved or they feel
ashamed of it.
(33:26):
But what's really happeningusually is that the dog is
showing these typical fearful orsubmissive signs.
Where they're, you know,they're cowering, they're sort
of hunkering down or their earsare back and they're kind of
looking up at their owners andthat is interpreted as guilt,
but really they're reacting tothe owner's behavior.
So there is actually aninteresting study.
(33:49):
They looked at 14 pet dogs intheir owner's home and each dog
was given a treat and the ownerinstructed the dog not to eat a
treat and the owner left theroom.
Sometimes the dog obeyed anddidn't eat the treat and other
times the dog ate the treat,which was secretly arranged by
the researcher.
And in some cases the owner wastold that their dog ate the
treat, even if they didn't, andthey scolded the dog.
(34:14):
So you know they were lookingat whether the dog looked more
quote guilty when they actuallyhad done something versus when
they hadn't, and they recordedthe dog's behavior and to see
what they would do when theirowners returned.
And the dogs did not lookguilty more often when they
actually disobeyed them whenthey did, and instead they had
that look or that submissiveposture when they were scolded,
(34:36):
whether they ate the treat ornot.
So it just means that when weinterpret that look as guilt,
it's actually a response to ourreaction, not the dog feeling
guilt or shame.
It's really a fearful response.
I'm glad that you brought thatup.
Amy Castro (34:52):
Well, and that you know.
A good test of that is if youwalk out, to like, if I walked
out now and I said what did youdo?
And I looked at anybody, they'dall look guilty.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (34:59):
Yeah, but sometimes even if it happened in
the past and there's not.
You know you're not currentlyusing that tone because now
you're more cognizant and you'retrying to change the
interaction they can still have.
They have memory right and sothey, depending on the context
in which it happened before andnow they have a memory of what
(35:19):
happened before.
So they react in the same wayregardless of how you react, and
so that can be confusing.
So that's why we go back intothe history and say, oh, what
was your reaction to thisbehavior in the past?
And that's where the piecessometimes come into place.
But I have many, many clientswho are doing most things right.
You know they've done great andprovide for their dogs, they
(35:41):
understand their dog's triggers,they try to avoid them, they've
tried to work on them, they usepositive reinforcement, they're
not punishing their dogs.
So they're doing so many thingsright.
And there's still thesebehaviors that are causing
unhappiness in the household,both for the pet and the pet
parent, and many times it doeshave to do with the interaction
between the pet parent and theanimal or the environment, but
(36:03):
it can go well beyond that.
You know, sometimes it's justthe animal and their genetics
and their early experience thatshapes their later behavior that
has really nothing to do withthe current environment or pet
parent.
So I think that sometimes wefeel responsible and we feel
guilty and I have to tell peoplethis isn't your fault.
(36:24):
Don't listen to people who sayit's all about the human and and
there's something wrong withthe human.
No, it really bothers me,actually, because that's not the
case and sometimes it is, butevery case is different, right,
and so that's where we have tolook at the individual
circumstances and the historyand and also again understand is
(36:46):
there something abnormal aboutthis dog?
Is there an underlying medicalreason?
Is there a neurologic reason?
There's things that go beyondthe human and it doesn't really
matter what we do.
Amy Castro (37:01):
Yeah, it's not our fault.
So, to bring all this together,let's kind of talk about some
final thoughts or final advice.
To bring all this together,let's kind of talk about some
final thoughts or final advice.
I would like to encouragepeople to find that balance
between letting, like I said inthe beginning, letting dogs be
dogs and cats be cats, andmaking sure that we are creating
environments that allow them todo that and scenarios that
allow them to do that.
But at the same time, I willacquiesce to you about meeting
(37:24):
my human need of getting what Iget out of, like putting clothes
on my dog or taking them out toplaces with me.
What's your best advice forfinding that balance, you know?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (37:35):
when it comes to like spoiling our pets
because I know that comes up alot I think the distinction lies
between needs and wants, and apet's needs are tied to its
natural species, specificbehaviors, and we should ask
ourselves what does this animalneed to express its normal
behaviors while living in ahuman home?
And, for example, cats needopportunities to climb and
scratch and chase and play andhunt.
(37:56):
And some cats enjoy hiding inboxes, while others want to be
up high.
Typically luxury items and thethings that I think maybe you're
referring to aren't essentialfor the pet.
They're more of a human wantmaybe you're referring to aren't
essential for the pet.
They're more of a human want.
So when deciding what toprovide for the pet, I focus on
functionality and how the itemmeets the pet's behavioral or
(38:17):
physical needs.
So, for example, a cat doesn'tcare if its scratching post
costs $10 or $70, as long as itfulfills the purpose of
scratching, you don't need tospend a lot of money on fancy
toys.
Cats enjoy playing with paperballs and hiding in cardboard
boxes.
That said, I'd like to thinkthat spoiling our pets really
means that we're going above andbeyond to ensure their
well-being and, in reality,meeting their needs isn't really
(38:40):
spoiling at all.
It's essential.
No such thing as too muchenrichment.
The more opportunities fornatural behaviors the better,
but when a pet's naturalbehaviors aren't met they can
develop behavior problems thatare problematic to humans.
So I think that for pet parentswho provide luxury items that
don't necessarily satisfy afunctional need, it's about the
(39:02):
human animal bond right.
And when we spoil our pets, aslong as it's not harmful and
even if it's reflecting a humandesire to indulge our pets, to
fulfill our own emotional needto feel closer to them, that's
perfectly okay, as long as we'realso meeting all the pet's
behavioral needs and there's noharm in what we're providing.
And at the end of the day, thathuman-animal bond is why we
(39:24):
have pets and that's what it'sall about.
So if a little spoilingstrengthens that bond, then I'm
all for it, as long as we'redoing all the other things that
we need to do.
Amy Castro (39:32):
Hey, I've been giving my dogs cookies to this
past week and when they come inand they've done their business
outside in the morning,everybody comes to the kitchen
and sits and gets a littlesomething.
I'm trying to be nice.
That's good.
Yeah, that's probably.
The problem is that I've got somany that nobody.
I almost have lost touch withmy own pets in treating them
like a herd.
You know, it's like theirresponsibility as opposed to a
(39:55):
joyful addition to the household.
But now that we have scaled therescue way back, trying to
reconnect with them a little bit, yeah, you see them in a
different light.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (40:04):
Like, give them toys, give them treats,
give them all those things.
Just, you know, obviously youhave to make sure that they have
a complete and balanced dietand you're not you're staying
with it, but but also makingsure that you know what that
particular animal is motivatedby, right, is it attention, is
it toys, is it treats?
And provide those things, thatis for sure.
Amy Castro (40:24):
So are there any resources that you recommend for
pet parents to do a better jobat pet parenting along these
lines?
Dr. Rachel Malamed (40:31):
Yeah, a couple of resources I can
mention in terms of books.
There's two books One is calledDecoding your Cat and one is
Decoding your Dog, and they'recollaborations by different
board certified veterinarybehaviorists, so it's put out by
the American College ofVeterinary Behaviorists.
So you know I would start there.
Also, I have some educationalresources and support for pet
(40:55):
parents.
I have a Facebook page, so it'sBehavior Medicine, support for
Pet Parents, and there's alsosome YouTube link and Instagram.
And then the American Collegeof Veterinary Behaviorists has a
list of all the veterinarybehaviorists available in the
country, and so if you're tryingto locate someone, you can go
(41:16):
onto their website as well, andthey have also some resources
for pet parents.
Amy Castro (41:24):
Well, Dr Malamed, thank you so much for being here
with us today and putting me onthe right path.
Between you know, as opposed tothe war path that I was on
already with this hang up that Ihad about pets being pets and
being able to act like pets, Ithink you've shown us that we
can find a good balance ofmeeting our needs through our
pets and meeting our pets needsas well.
(41:45):
So I really appreciate youbeing here and sharing your
expertise and experience.
Dr. Rachel Malamed (41:50):
Well, thank you for having me and thank you
for all that you do as well withyour rescue work.
Amy Castro (41:55):
So rescue world is a crazy world.
Thank you, I appreciate that,and thank you to everybody for
listening to another episode ofMuddy Paws and Hairballs.
Take this week, take theopportunity to listen to this
episode, maybe listen to itagain and implement some of the
things that we talked about, sothat you and your pet are living
your best lives and living themwell together, and we will see
(42:17):
you next week.
Thanks for listening to MuddyPaws and Hairballs.
Be sure to visit our website atmuddypawsandhairballscom for
more resources and be sure tofollow this podcast on your
favorite podcast app so you'llnever miss a show.
And hey, if you like this show,text someone right now and say
I've got a podcastrecommendation.
You need to check the show outand tell them to listen and let
(42:38):
you know what they think.
Don't forget to tune in nextweek and every week for a brand
new episode.
And if you don't do anythingelse this week, give your pets a
big hug from us.
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