Traveling With Cats? Here’s How to Make It Stress-Free

Episode Transcript
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Amy Castro (00:05):
After this summer's epic 1,672-mile rescue road trip
taking Bonnie from Texas to hernew home in New York, you'd
think I'd be prepared for anypet travel challenge, but
traveling cross-country withcats is a whole different
adventure.
In this episode, I'm joined byrenowned cat behavior expert,
leanna Bias, to unpack theunique challenges of traveling

(00:26):
with cats and share essentialtips for a calm, stress-free
journey.
From pre-trip planning tohandling surprises on the road.
Leanna's advice is a must foranyone planning to travel with
cats, dogs or both, whetheryou're relocating or just road
tripping.
These insights will make pettravel smoother and easier for
everyone involved.
So stay tuned.

(00:49):
Welcome to Muddy Paws andHairballs.
I'm your host, amy Castro, andwith me today is Leanna Bias,
the Certified Feline Trainingand Behavior Specialist with
Feline Behavior Solutions.
She earned her certificationthrough the Animal Behavior
Institute and then she's alsoFear Free certified.
She works virtually with peopleall over the world who are
having issues with their pets,including doing things like

(01:11):
introducing pets to each other,soiling issues, fear issues and
dealing with aggression, whichare all things that are near and
dear to my heart, because thoseare oftentimes the reasons that
people give up their pets torescues like ours.
So, leanna, thank you so muchfor being here with us today.
My pleasure.
Thank you for having me Awesome.
So we're going to talk todayabout traveling with cats, and I

(01:34):
really was interested in doingthis segment because, first of
all, I've never thought aboutactually taking trips with my
cats, but I've seen a lot ofvideos of people that do travel,
you know, and maybe live in afull-time RV with their cats,
and I always wonder how thatwould work.
But I am planning a big tripwith my four dogs and three cats
and I'm already panicking aboutit.
That's so many animals, I know.

(01:56):
I know Now one of them.
You know there is at least oneamongst the seven that I can
still hold out hope might beadopted before I actually have
to leave, but that's still goingto leave me with six of my own
pets, so we want to make it aspainless as possible.
I think the dogs are going tobe fine, but I really worry
about how I'm going to managethat with cats.
So that's why I wanted to talkto you today is how can I do
this without driving my catscrazy?

(02:18):
So, before we dive into thenitty gritty, how did you come
to becoming a feline behaviorexpert?

LeeAnna Buis (02:26):
I was one of those people.
I've had a cat in my life sinceliterally the day I was born.
I came home from the hospital.
There was a cat there and Itruly believed that I knew
everything there was to knowabout cats.
I you know, my friends calledme the cat whisperer, and then I
adopted a cat that I couldn'tfigure out.
He had aggression issues, hewas stressed.

(02:48):
I couldn't introduce him to myother cats.
Well, I just couldn't managehim.
He was too much for me, andluckily, around that same time,
I learned about the existence offeline training and behavior
experts.
Not a lot of people know that'sa thing.
You can get a trainer to helpwith your cat the same way you
can with your dog, and so,luckily, I just happened to

(03:09):
discover this as I was workingwith an amazing group called
Preventive Vet, and so I hired abehavior consultant to work
with me, and by the end of thatcall I realized that I knew
nothing about cats.
I realized that I knew nothingabout cats.

(03:30):
I honestly could see so manyplaces where I had gone wrong.
I hadn't treated my cats theway that I should have because I
didn't know what I was doing,and after that call, I could see
, okay, that was my fault, thatwas my fault, this I made worse,
this I made worse.
And so I felt a lot ofheaviness and guilt about that
and also I was just absolutelyfascinated by all the things I
learned.

(03:50):
Cats are incredible and complexand interesting and I was not
appreciating that about my cats.
So I immediately looked intocertification so that I could
tell everybody all the thingsthat I had learned and ended up
actually working with the personthat I did that consultation

(04:11):
for.
So it was Dr Marcy Kosky, whoowns Feel and Behavior Solutions
, is the one who did myconsultation and then ended up
hiring me.
So now we work together.

Amy Castro (04:20):
Oh, great, great.
It's interesting that we'rehaving this conversation,
especially today, because wejust had two cats returned for
behavior issues, for aggressiontowards the resident cats.
Oh, it was interesting thatthese cats came from a multi-cat

(04:49):
environment and yet were notadapting to a multi-cat
environment.

Well, and just the super quick answer just because
cats are good with cats in onesituation does not mean they're
going to be in any situation.
Right?
Cats are designed not to likestranger cats.
It's how they stay alive in thewild is uh-oh, there's a
stranger cat that could attackme, kill me, steal my resources,
et cetera?
Right?
So they're not designed to bebuddies.

(05:16):
And this is one of those placeswhere cats are very different
than dogs, because dogs canlearn other dogs can be friendly
.
Dogs can learn other dogs canbe friendly.
Cats don't have that same kindof building block internally.
So each time there's a new cat,there needs to be a new careful
introduction to show those catsthat they're safe together.
But also there are a millionthings that can influence how

(05:39):
well cats get along the way thespace is set up, the resources
around the space, the feedingschedule, whether they're hungry
between meals, the kind of playthey get, right.
All of those things can impacthow well cats get along.
So if you go from a situationwhere it's set up really well
into a situation that's notwell-designed for two cats, they

(05:59):
may have a totally differentreaction to each other.
Even the same cats can have adifferent reaction in different
environments, but the good newsabout that is that there's a
million things that we can do totry to help cats get along.
Most of my work isintroductions that are not going
well.

Amy Castro (06:14):
We may have to do a whole episode on that.

It's one of my favorite things to talk about
because it's the biggeststruggle that people have and
there's so many things you cando to make it better.

Amy Castro (06:25):
Yeah, we definitely need to schedule that, so we'll,
we'll, we'll get on eachother's calendars for another
episode.
Sounds good.
Okay, so back to.
So back to moving with cats, ortraveling with cats.
What would be one of thebiggest starting mistakes that
people make when it comes toputting the cat in the car and
off we go.
Yeah.

Assuming that cats are like dogs putting the cat
in the car and off we go.
Yeah, assuming that cats arelike dogs.
You know, my biggest fear withpeople who travel with their
pets is that they're notprepared for the worst case
scenario, and this is one ofthose instances where I think my
innate desire to overplan ishelpful, because cats are very

(07:06):
different than dogs.
Right, the most important thingyou can know about cats is that
, even though we call themdomesticated house cats, we did
not domesticate cats.
We just let them come inside,right, wild cats moved in and we
let them, but we didn't doselective breeding like we did
with dogs.
So the cats in our houses arenot that much different than

(07:28):
their wild ancestors were, whichmeans they have the same needs,
they have the same instincts,they have the same reactions to
things that a wild cat might,right.
So a cat who is in a newsituation or a potentially scary
situation is going to reactvery differently than a dog
would, and I should say I'm nota dog expert, I just have had

(07:50):
them and love them.
Yeah, but dogs are moreinclined, when they're scared,
to look to their people forguidance.
Cats are fight or flight, right, they are going to get the heck
out of there, and if there'ssomething standing in their way,
they're going to fight theirway through that thing to get
the heck out of there.
So there can be really bigreactions to the different

(08:11):
elements of a road trip.
That can be scary orintimidating for a cat, and so
you want to be prepared for allof those so that you're not
suddenly in a situation whereyour cat is gone on the side of
the road in Kentucky.
Yeah, so really justunderstanding cat nature is very
different than dog nature andyou have to plan very

(08:32):
differently for those trips.

Amy Castro (08:35):
Yeah, I never even thought about that.
I mean, and that's such aprofound and very foundational
point about cats, because youknow, I remember when we moved
just 20 minutes away from ourprevious house to this house and
we moved our cats and I thoughtthey're going to be fine
because it's all our stuffthat's being moved over here and

(08:57):
granted the car ride.
I know that the car ride nobodygenerally enjoys, but that when
they got here they would befine.
And I remember our one catPinny Pinhead is his name
because he's got it's not reallyhis name, he's got another name
but he gets called PinnyPinhead because his head is kind
of disproportionately small tohis body, but he's just kind of

(09:18):
a little funny looking but he'sprobably the most laid back,
whereas my other cat, pickles,can look at the same ceiling fan
she's been looking at for 15years and be like, oh my gosh
what is?
that I was like it's the samething you've been looking at for
15 years.
Anyway, I thought he wouldadjust just fine and he spent
almost the whole first daystuffed down the back of the
sofa cushions, like I couldn'tbelieve he was so freaked out by

(09:41):
being in the new house.
Freaked out by being in the newhouse.
But that makes sense.
When you look at it from thestandpoint of the whole
domestication thing is that hereacted just like a wild cat,
would you know?
Or when we bring feral or noteven feral but borderline feral
cats, sometimes when they comeinto the rescue and you know,
they just go ballistic when theyare in their new environment,
bouncing off the walls becausethey don't know what to do with

(10:03):
themselves.

Yeah, exactly, and that's one of the reasons that
cats can go from house cats tostrays and survive.
It's because we didn't breedout all of the things that they
need to survive.
But then that causes problemsbecause we have animals living
in our homes who are stillprogrammed to be worried about
coyotes jumping out of thecloset and eating them Right.
So it's a very different worldwhen you think about cats

(10:28):
through that perspective, andthat's honestly one of the
single facts that had thebiggest impact on me was
learning that, and it's one ofthe first things I tell every
client I work with, because Ithink it just brings everything
into clearer focus with cats.

Amy Castro (10:40):
So let's focus, and I know we could talk about road
tripping and things like thatand maybe, if some of that comes
up along the way, but I thinkprobably a more likely scenario
for more people would be movingwith a cat, whether it's across
town or across the country.
So what would be some of thethings we could do?
Just as an example, one of thethings that I'm planning on
doing is getting an RV andacclimating the cats to the RV

(11:07):
before we even start moving it.
But what could be some things?
If I know I'm going to bemoving X amount of time, how far
in advance should I startprepping for that and what kind
of things should I be doing?

I think starting early is the best thing you can
do.
And I say started as soon asyou find out you're moving,
because there's so many elementsthat can take some time.
You know you want time to beable to positively and slowly
get your cat comfortable withbeing in a carrier or a kennel
or whatever they're going to betraveling in.
You want them to be comfortablewith the car in motion.

(11:41):
You need to think about whatkind of setup you're going to
have in the car.
You know, if it's a short trip,a small carrier might be fine,
but if you're going to be in thecar for three days, you might
want a different setup.
What you're set up in the hotelor whatever your overnight
accommodations are going to be.
Any medical needs you want toplan ahead for.

(12:02):
If you want to try calming oranxiety medication, you want to
plan ahead for.
If you want to try calming oranxiety medication, you want to
plan ahead for that.
So the earlier that you startplanning, the longer you have to
go oh my gosh, I forgot aboutthis.
Or to find the perfect carrierthat fits in the backseat of the
car or whatever it is.
You also need to think aboutsupplies, right, there's a lot

(12:23):
involved.
You've got what they're goingto need in the car all day while
you're driving.
What they're going to needovernight, what's going to fit
in those spaces, what kind ofsupplies are you going to need
if they have an accident in thehotel room or in the car?
So all of those kinds of thingsyou want to think about.
Another really important thingthat people don't always

(12:44):
consider is getting the safespace set up in the new home
quickly when you arrive.
Oh yeah, having all the thingsthat your cat needs to feel more
safe and secure in boxes thatyou can get to first off the
truck so that you can get thatspace set up before they are out
of their carriers and then dealwith everything else that's
going on.
You want to think about yourroute and look up any emergency

(13:10):
vets that are along the way.
Have phone numbers ready in caseof any emergency, so that you
can make sure that you can getthose quickly.
You want to make sure that yourcat's microchipped and that the
travel information is updatedso that they can reach you when
you're traveling, not callingthe home.
You just left Things likehaving information in the car in

(13:31):
case there's an accident or youstep away from the car and
something happens, so thatpeople can get a hold of you or
get a hold of an emergencycontact to take care for your
pet.
Right, there's so many thingsthat you're not going to think
about if you wait until the lastminute to start planning, so
the earlier the better, in myopinion.

Amy Castro (13:49):
No, that's such a good point.
I want to drill down on acouple of those things, like the
very first thing that youmentioned as far as the carrier
goes.
I mean, that's such anoverlooked thing in making you
know we do it, and it'sinteresting because I know we do
it with dogs.
You know it's if you, if youplan on creating your dog, for
example, whether it's overnightor when you leave or when people
are over or whatever timeyou're going to do that, Most

(14:12):
people do a pretty good job ofthe process of acclimation to it
.
Right, Make it a good place,Make it a safe place, the place
that they get fed, the placethat they get treats.
But yet, with our cats, thosecarriers are packed up in the
closet and when you pull thatcarrier out, your cat suddenly
disappears.
Well, because nothing positiveis ever associated with that
carrier and getting jammed intoit, right.

(14:32):
So you know even something assimple as leaving the carriers
out and maybe putting sometreats so that they walk in and
out of it.
You know, as opposed to thefirst time they get into, it is
when you're stuffing it in asthe movers are coming in the
house.
You know it's.
Just think about what kind ofscenario that creates for your
pets.
You know that's so huge.
And the other thing was thatmoving box thing.

(14:54):
I think that's so huge.
One of the things that I'vebeen looking at from a moving
perspective is to have a box,you know, a human box, of what
would be the essentials, whetherwe take that with us in the car
or whether it's, like you said,the last packed on the truck.
So it's the first that comesout of the things that we would
need to get started, like a rollof toilet paper, a roll of
paper towel, that kind of thing.
And so you know, maybe what weneed is a human box and then a

(15:17):
pet box with those you know, acouple of disposable, even if
it's just disposable litterboxes, because you're planning
on buying new ones when you moveto your new place.
But having those things easilyaccessible and the microchip, I
mean that's just such a hugething.
And I would say and I don'tknow what your feeling is on cat
collars I don't have collars onmy cat really been thinking

(15:46):
about was harnesses with tagsand possibly even getting them
used to in advance because I'vegot time having leashes on those
harnesses, because I have thishumongous fear about I open the
door, you know, and maybe I justthe better habit would be
putting the cats back in theircrates if we were going to have
them out at night before we openthe door.
But let's just say, by accidentthe door gets open and the cat
gets out and it's got, you know,yeah, it's got a microchip if

(16:07):
anybody ever catches it.
But you know if it's got a tagor if anybody scans it.
But at least if it has a tag,maybe that would be more likely,
you know, quicker to get backto me that kind of thing.
I don't know what your thoughtsare on that.

Yeah, it's.
You know, so many times withcats you're weighing the
positive against the negativeand you just kind of have to
pick one.
I think breakaway collars aregreat.
So a breakaway collar justmeans that if it gets caught on
something, it's going to open upand release.
A collar that does not do that,or a harness, while that gives

(16:38):
you more control and also isless likely as you fall off if
your cat escapes, the danger isthat those things can get caught
up, Caught up on stuff.
Yeah.
Because, your cat is likely togo over fences, into trees,
under shrubs, where things canget caught, so there can be
danger associated with it too.
So there's two sides of thatcoin and if there's a leash

(16:59):
attached to it then there's evenmore chance that something, it
can get caught on something.
But I definitely thinkbreakaway collars are great.
Even you know attaching like atracking device, an Apple AirPod
or something like that to thecollar.

Amy Castro (17:14):
Yeah, that's a great idea.

So that if they do get out, you've got a way to
track them.
I think is a genius idea.
One thing to mention aboutharnesses and we may talk more
about this later, so let me knowif we need to come back to it
but a lot of people have theidea that they can pop their cat
in a harness and then it's justlike walking their dog, and I
just want to state for therecord that no matter what the

(17:36):
harness says, your cat can getout of it.
Cats liquefy and they just gofloop and they can get right out
of any harness, I don't carewhat it says on the packaging.
So, and when a cat is scared,their impulse is going to be get
out of anything that'srestraining them and get the
heck out of there.
So I know we'll talk about it alittle more, but just be, don't

(17:58):
rely on the harness is thething that's going to keep you
in control of your cat.
It's not that way with cats.
I've had my cat roll out of hisharness multiple times just in
our yard when we were walkingand something scared him.

Amy Castro (18:13):
Yeah, so as far as you were talking about calming
and things like that, that wasthe other thing that I was
thinking about.
It's like what could I give mycats and should I give my cat
something while we're traveling?

I think calming medications, prescription
medications, supplements all ofthose can be great, with the
disclaimer that I have nomedical training whatsoever that
needs to be the decision maker,part of the decision making
team there.
Keep in mind with things likenatural calming supplements,
cats can have very differentreactions to those.
You know I work with a lot ofclients who use different

(18:45):
calming supplements.
I've tried them with my cats.
Some cats will have a greatreaction.
Some cats will have no reactionat all.
Just because it says it'scalming doesn't mean that it's
going to be calming necessarilyfor your cat.
So you want to test thosethings.
Same thing if you get aprescription from your vet.
You want to test that stuffbeforehand because you want to
be able to adjust the dosage upor down.

(19:07):
But also you want to know whatto expect because you don't want
to be worried in the car right.
When I moved to Seattle with mythree cats, this was way before
I got into this business, so Ididn't do a lot right and
learned a lot of lessons.
But I did do a calmingmedication, prescription
medication, and I did test it acouple of days before.

(19:28):
So I kind of knew what toexpect.
But the first hour and a halfthe person that was with me I
had them like checking every 15minutes to make sure cats were
still breathing because I wasjust nervous.
So using it a few timesbeforehand, so you know how
they're going to react, is goingto make it easier on you in the
car as well.
Okay, yeah, I think thosethings are fantastic.

(19:48):
I would honestly, you know, asmuch as I would like to say
don't medicate your cat.
I would rather see a cat that'smedicated and relaxed than a
cat who's really, really scared.

Amy Castro (20:00):
Yeah, what are your thoughts as far as letting the
cats loose in the vehicle,whether it's I mean, certainly
not when it's moving but whatabout if?
Because I, you know, I think Isee these RV travel videos where
somebody's living in an RV withtheir cat and the cat's loose
and they percent because youhave traveled many times with

(20:28):
your cat.

I'm going to say don't let your cat out of the
carrier or kennel unless youabsolutely have to.
You know, in an RV situationit's a bit different because
you've got a home space andyou've got plenty of opportunity
to get your cat back in thekennel.
But I will say investigate thatRV like your life depends on it
.

Amy Castro (20:46):
Ah, that just popped right into my head, like where
could they disappear to Exactly?

They could end up in.
You know, I was driving downthe street one day and I saw
somebody take a kitten out of abackpack and throw it in the
bushes.
So I had to pull over and tryto rescue a kitten with nothing
to put a kitten in, and so I gotit in the car and it ended up
climbing up inside my dashboardwhere there are wires and hot
things, and that could have beenreally dangerous.

(21:11):
So letting your cat out in thecar scary for that reason.
Also, you know, if you happento not realize the window is
down, or if they stand on thecontroller and they lower the
window, or the person who wentto get food comes back and opens
the door and you don't realizethey're coming right Any of

(21:32):
those scenarios can be reallydangerous.
Plus then you've got to get yourcat back into a confined space
that they may not want to goback into, so you're amping
their stress up again by kind ofstarting over, whereas if you
just leave them safely in thecarrier or the kennel they've
settled in, even if they don'tlove it.
By that point in the trip theyhave hopefully settled in and

(21:56):
it's going to be a lot safer.
And if there's an accidentwhile you're driving it's going
to be safer for them to be inthe kennel.
It's also safer for you as adriver to not have a cat moving
around while you're driving andyou're worrying about where the
cat is and what they're doing.
even if it's a long trip, I saykeep them in the carrier.
You know you can open it togive love and give food and give

(22:18):
water and those things.
Right, I'm not saying ignoreyour cat for the drive, but keep
them secure.
You know your inclination maybe.
My cat needs to use a litterbox, they need to eat, they need
to stretch their legs.
A nervous cat isn't going to dothose things, naturally anyways
.

Amy Castro (22:34):
I was going to ask about that, like how big of a
thing do I need to have a litterbox in there?

I think it's you know, ideally, if you can go
with the largest kind of kennelthat will fit in your vehicle,
because that's going to give youroom to make it more
comfortable for your cat.
They can stand up, they canturn around, you can maybe add a
little hiding spot if there'sroom.
You can add a little litter boxif there's room.

(23:00):
It all depends on the cat,right?
I'm talking in worst casescenarios because I don't want
anybody to be caught off guard,right, but your cat may be fine
in the kennel the whole timeyou're driving.
I just want you to be prepared.
If they're not, and a nervouscat is unlikely to use a litter
box, right, it's not like weneed to take a break and let the

(23:20):
cat use the box now while thedog is outside taking a pee
break.
Cats are not going to eliminateon cue, but also, a nervous cat
is just less likely to use alitter box.
They may not eat well on thetrip, they may not drink
anything while you're driving.
Sometimes I double check withyour vet, but, like, a cat can
go a good day or day and a halfwithout eliminating, without

(23:41):
peeing, and they can be okay aslong as it's not from a blockage
.
So don't expect things to benormal, yeah, and don't panic
when they're not.

Amy Castro (23:51):
Yeah, well, and even when you travel with dogs when
we took that dog, you know itwas 1672 miles.
We drove with that dog and shedidn't poop for almost 48 hours,
despite the fact that she waseating what about if you have
like, like, I'm going to betraveling with three cats and
they, they don't always getalong.
So my inclination is going tobe to try to figure out a way to

(24:13):
have them each in their ownspace.
But you know, if you're talkingabout space to move around, to
have a litter box, to have ahidey hole, I'm not sure how
doable that is.
Is it a bad idea to put them inthe same carrier?

Yeah, that's another tricky one A lot of it,
you know I'm going to tellpeople you know your cat better
than anybody else does.
Lean into your gut instinct onthings like that.
Just keep in mind that whencats are in a stressful
situation, they can reactdifferently to each other.
So, just because they're bondeddoesn't mean that they're going

(24:48):
to feel better in the samespace.
They may get nervous and thatcan lead to some fighting.

Amy Castro (24:53):
Yeah, so you might want to bring a backup crate
just in case.

Yes, that's perfect.
Yeah, something smaller thatyou can get one of them into if
you need to.
But if they do well together,then I think it's fine to try
them together.
People may be surprised evenlike my cats, were terrified of
being in the car when I made mytrip out here.
But I only used the medicationthe first day.
The second day they settled inand just slept the whole time.

(25:21):
But if you were just going tothe vet five minutes away, they
would have screamed the entiretime.
Again, this was before I knewhow to work on those things, so
they may not be as stressed outas you think they're going to be
once they get in and getsettled.

Amy Castro (25:36):
Is it a good idea to take them on car rides before
your big trip, or is that justincreasing stress?
If you do it, the right way.

It's a great idea.
So the idea when you're talkingabout getting a cat comfortable
with anything that freaks themout carrier, car rides, nail
trimming, anything like that isto start at a point where your
cat is comfortable.
Okay, so if they don't likebeing in their carrier, then
maybe you start three feet awayfrom their carrier.

(26:07):
If they don't like driving inthe car, then maybe you start
sitting in the car with the carturned off.
Right, you start someplacewhere they're comfortable and
then you baby step up throughthe things that made them
uncomfortable.
You do it very slowly.
You make it super positive.
Right, treats, pets, verbalpraise all the things they love

(26:29):
are happening and the biggestadvice I can give is avoid
pushing past their comfort zone.

Amy Castro (26:37):
And how do you know when you've hit that?

You're going to look at body language, you might
notice little tiny things.
You want to look for thesmaller stuff when you can.
So small things like fidgetingor that tail, kind of going from
a leisurely swish to anagitated swish, the ears
starting to turn, trying to looksmaller, right, like they're

(27:02):
getting nervous, they're gettingcompact.
You know just general changesin their demeanor that show you
they're a little less relaxedthan they just were.
Okay, that's your sign thatthat step is too much.
You want to back up, because ifyou push past their comfort
zone they put their guard up andthey keep it up.
Yeah, right.
So if you baby step, superpositive, avoid pushing too far.

(27:23):
That's how you show a cat.
They don't have to be afraid ofthat thing and actually it's a
really good thing because theygot good stuff the whole time it
was happening.
Yeah, now that can be hard inthe car because you can only
baby step that so much, right,right.
So there may be a littlepushing, but you want to try to
limit it as much as you can andeven if they don't love being in

(27:44):
that space, if you can justtake the fear out of it, it's
going to be a lot easier on them.

Amy Castro (27:50):
Good point, because I'm envisioning a scenario.
Let's say that I'm taking a.
You know I'm moving acrosscountry, so it's going to be a
multi-day trip.
Is it better to push through asmuch as you can to make it?
Oh, I went six hours.
I want to now get them out ofthe crate or, like you said,

(28:20):
maybe we're not going to bedoing that, or moving that crate
into a hotel room where nowit's a whole nother.
Strange sights and sounds.

Yeah, I think you know again, there's no one size
fits all answer.
I'm probably especially if yourcat isn't handling it well I
would lean toward the powerthrough.
You know, taking breaks whileyou're driving I don't think is
necessarily going to benefityour cat unless you know they're
nice and relaxed.
You know they just want to getout and move around in the car a

(28:50):
little bit.
They've done that before.
You know it's's safe and youknow they're going to be fine
going back in their carrier.
Then I say power through whatyou can.
The overnight accommodationscan be an opportunity for your
cat to calm down a little bit,feel a little safer, maybe using
the litter box right, becausethey're not in something that's
moving and throwing them offbalance and vibrating.

(29:13):
But again, even in the hotelI'm not a fan of let your cat
loose.
in the hotel I like the idea ofhave a much larger pop-up kennel
or enclosure that is big enoughfor a good size litter box and
a nice hiding spot and food andwater and they can move around a

(29:36):
bit.
But they're still secureBecause the last thing you want
is your cat getting into a ventsystem or something like that or
, you know, climbing in thattiny hole under the sink.
You know, you don't know whatpeople have left.
You don't know if you're goingto be able to get your cat if
they get under the bed.
You don't know if they use, youknow, rat bait and things like
that.
That could be dangerous.

(29:56):
Good point, so safer, just tokeep them in an enclosed, but
larger ideally.
And there's some great pop-upkennel like nylon pop-up kennels
that can work really, reallywell.
Give your cat lots of space.
As long as they're not nervousand trying to get out, A pop-up
nylon kennel is fine.

Amy Castro (30:16):
And that's something you could get in advance and
put it in your living room andthat way it's familiar.
It smells like them becausethey've walked in it, sat in it,
rubbed their faces on it.
So, yeah, I would assume smellsand smells that are familiar
would be helpful.

Yeah, absolutely huge.
In fact, one of the reallyhelpful things you can do in the
car, in the kennel, in the saferoom of your new home, in the
rest of your new home, is takesomething that your cat has
slept on or fabric that you'verubbed the cheeks and shoulders
of your cat and rub it aroundthe space, because you're

(30:51):
actually taking their pheromones, their scent, and you're
depositing it around and that isvery self-soothing.
For cats to be surrounded bytheir own scent is comforting.

Amy Castro (31:02):
One of the things that I always worry, and I don't
.
I won't have to worry aboutthis for my trip because of the
time of the year when it's goingto be, but when people are
traveling in the summer orthey're moving in the summer,
cause that's often when peoplemove what do you have to worry
about as far as cats gettingoverheated or dehydrated, or is
that kind of dependent on thelength of the trip?

I think it's definitely something you have to
be careful of.
Ideally, you want to betraveling in something with
temperature control, havingwindows as your temperature
control isn't ideal, obviouslyfor safety reasons if your cat
gets out.
But also it's much louder,right, when a semi drives by
when the windows are down.
It's a very differentexperience for your cat than

(31:42):
when the windows are up.
The wind blowing on them can bestressful, right.
It just leads to a lot ofstressors.
So heat and air is ideal.
Battery powered fan clippedonto the kennel can be helpful.

Amy Castro (31:57):
That's a good idea?
Yeah, because sometimes peopledon't realize that it might be
cool up where you're sitting inthe driver and the passenger
seat, but if you've got yourcats at the very back of the van
in a crate, it could be quitewarm back there, and so you
really need to check thattemperature.

And there are non-electric cooling mats and
heating mats for pets that youcan use as well.
Those can be helpful.
Yeah, so I think those are thebig things to think about.
When it comes to dehydration,you know that's it's a tricky
thing because cats are prone todehydration anyway.
Anyway, yeah, exactly, theydon't have a big thirst drive
because they are descended fromdesert dwelling cats who didn't

(32:38):
drink a lot of water.
So cats are already prone todehydration and when you're
driving they're less likely todrink normally anyways.
So you may talk to your vetabout if there are any signs
that you should look for.
That could be an emergencyfeeding, wet food, adding water

(32:59):
to the wet food, feeding liquidtreats, bone broths, things like
that that are made specificallyfor cats.
Those can kind of helpencourage hydration if they're
not drinking well, but they willeat.
But that is something to beaware of.

Amy Castro (33:13):
Yeah, Well, and that's a good point too, is that
you know, especially if you'regoing to be on a relatively long
trip, I think a cat might bemore likely to eat some canned
food with a little water on itthan it would a bowl of dry food
.
So if you're trying to keepthings moving, keep the cat
hydrated and fed and nourished,then that canned food's probably
not a bad idea anyway.

Yeah, and you know , start those things before you
leave.

Amy Castro (33:37):
Yeah, exactly.

Because you don't want to upset stomach on your
drive.
That's not going to make it.

Amy Castro (33:41):
Yeah, that's such a good point.
I think we've kind of hit onsome of the things as far as
along the route.
Are there any other hints ortips that you have, since you've
done this kind of thing?
Like I know, for us, when wetraveled with Bonnie, we tried
to stick to stopping every fourhours.
You know whether, whether wefelt like she really needed it
or not, or she act like sheneeded it just to get her out of

(34:02):
the car, just to encourage herto go to the bathroom, and,
trying to keep on some type of aschedule, we'd stop about the
same time at night, fed her thisabout the same time of day, or
is that kind of all out thewindow with cats?

Like, do they need a routine?
The day, or is that?
kind of all out the window withcats.
Like, do they need a routine?
Cats love routine.
Routine feels safe.
Unexpected means not safe,right.
So routine is great, but you'renot likely to be traveling long
enough to really establish aroutine for a cat.
So I would be more concernedabout keeping your routine

(34:35):
consistent before you leave,especially during packing, right
.
The packing process can bestressful for cats.
So you know, just on that note,a couple of things to think
about.
Get a safe room set up for thembefore you start.
Packing Smells like them, hastheir things in it, so if they
get nervous they can be in thatspace.
That can also be the space thatthey are secured away while

(34:56):
you're loading everything up onmoving day, and then that's the
last space to get kind of packedup and moved out.
But also when you're packing,when you get the boxes out, when
you use that really loudpacking tape, right Things that
are likely to make a cat nervous, just make good things happen
for them at the same time.
It's literally as simple as I'mabout to make a loud tape noise

(35:16):
, I'm going to toss my cat atreat the first 10 times you use
tape.
If your cat gets a treat,they're going to feel a lot
better about that sound andthat's going to be less
stressful throughout the packingprocess.
Also, please be careful thatyou don't pack your cat.

Amy Castro (35:29):
Oh my God, yes, I hadn't even thought about that.
But you hear and see storiesabout cats that seven days later
they open the box when they getto California, or two weeks
later and, surprisingly, many ofthem are still alive.
But nobody needs that.

No, that's not something you you don't want.
To have to try to find your caton moving day, that's not going
to be good.

Amy Castro (35:51):
And it's amazing how many people's cats get out on
moving day and it's like, whywould you not have put them up?
And I think it's because theyput them in a room.
But people are going in and out, especially if you've got
movers or friends.

Sign on that door, yeah, or lock the door if you
can, yeah.
Sign on it.

Amy Castro (36:05):
Yeah, do everything you need to do or put the cats
in the crate, setting thosecrates up in advance in a place
that's going to be somewhat outof the way and take a month or
so for them to get used to thembeing there, and then just put
them in there and close them in,and that way you don't have to
worry about anybody getting in abox or getting out a door.

Another thing that's really helpful to think
about with that routine is playsessions.
Play is one of the best thingsthat you can do for a cat to
reduce stress, to buildconfidence, and keeping those
play routines intact eventhroughout the packing process
is going to be a huge help inkeeping your cat relaxed during

(36:45):
that process.

Amy Castro (36:46):
Good point.
Yeah, that's a.
I think people think whetherit's letting their dogs out in
the backyard and they run around, that that's sufficient
enrichment slash exercise.
Or that your cat's got free runof the house and they run
around, that that's sufficientenrichment slash exercise.
Or that your cat's got free runof the house and they go up and
down their cat tower.
I just had the feather toy outyesterday morning and uh was,
I've got a cat with no eyes, andthen I've got a 12 year old cat

(37:09):
and I've got an eight year oldcat and all, all of them were
playing with it.
Um, you know, and it's just,I'm always surprised by the 12
year old cause she just seemskind of like, oh, I'm so above
this.
She's looking at everybodybeing stupid and young and like,
oh, they're playing with thatlittle ball, but boy, she loves
that feather.
On the stick, the bird, that'slike their favorite one.

Oh my God, that is my absolute.
I recommend it to every personI meet who has a cat.
The bird is the absolute bestwand toy, yeah.

Amy Castro (37:37):
And there's a lot of feather toys, you know, on a
stick.
But the way that those feathersare put on that toy, that's why
I like it for the blind catespecially Because I mean, yes,
I can drag it across the floorand it will make noise, but that
cat will follow a, fly throughthe house, smash it against a
window and eat it, and so youknow, that sound is what really

(37:58):
gets her attention, and thatlittle sound that it makes when
it's new.
Once somebody's gotten a holdof it, forget it, it's all
destroyed.
But in the beginning, when it'snew and fresh, it makes a very
distinctive noise and you cansee her head follow, follow,
follow it.

So it's pretty entertaining to watch the three
different ages and abilities andhow they interact with that toy
.
But yeah, it keeps them from sm.
Your cat is a predator.
We didn't breed that out.
So if you don't give themopportunities to hunt, they are
going to find ways to meet thatneed themselves.
They're going to be morestressed, they're going to be

(38:47):
climbing the walls.
They're going to be gettinginto things you don't want them
getting into.
So play that replicates huntingis one of the key factors in
eliminating any unwantedbehavior, reducing stress, even
cat introductions.
Play has such a big role inthat.
So it can definitely help makeyour move easier if you can keep
that play going.

Amy Castro (39:08):
Okay, definitely, that's good advice.
So you had mentioned, you know,the safe space on the front end
and now we're talking about,okay, we've arrived at our new
home.
What would be your advice asfar as what kinds of things to
put in that safe room on theother end?
I mean, obviously we want tomake sure same rules from the
front end that the cat's notgoing to be able to get out, you
know, while the boxes are beingmoved in and things like that.

(39:31):
But you know, beyond food andwater in a litter box, is there
other things that would helpthem acclimate to a new home
better?

Definitely yeah, and I suggest this for any cat
in any new space.
So you want a smaller room soit doesn't feel overwhelming.
If possible, Basics food, water, litter box, toys, of course.
But you also want to thinkabout hiding spots, right?
Even if it's just a box with ahole cut in it, or a chair with

(40:01):
a towel draped over it, you wanta hiding spot, at least one or
two hiding spots.

Amy Castro (40:07):
That's such a good point, because you know, of
course you're moving to a newplace, right?
So you're going to pick somecompletely empty guest room,
preferably something withoutcarpet, right and you're just
going to throw the litter boxand the cats and the stuff in
there and they're going to bebouncing off the walls.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.
So things heavy with your scentcomforters, a soft chair pillow,
whatever you've got thingsheavy with their scent right.
Their beds, their blankets, thecushion off the couch that they
tend to sleep on, right this isall the stuff that you want in
the cat box so that you've gotit easily available when you get

(40:42):
there.
So the room smells like them,they have places to hide, they
have everything they need closeby so they don't have to venture
out to get to things they need.
Set all that up while they'restill in their kennel or their
carrier and then, when you openthat carrier, open it close to
one of the hiding spots and thenand this is going to be the

(41:04):
hardest thing for people leavethem alone.
Right, yes, your cat findscomfort in you, but in this
situation you can be there andyou can be giving verbal praise
and things like that, but youbringing the cat out, trying to
snuggle with them and trying toforce play, anything like that

(41:25):
probably is going to make themmore anxious, not less anxious.
That's good to know they needto feel safe.
when they poke their head out ofthat carrier the first time,
they may go straight to a hidingspot they may want to explore.
They may hide for a week.
They may want to see the wholehouse in an hour.
You've just got to let them setthe pace and just know that

(41:46):
while you can be there and be acomfort, you cannot change their
need to go at their own pace.
So let them come out whenthey're ready, let them play
when they're ready.
They still may not want to eator drink or use the litter box
right away.
So I would just say it's a goodtime to get in touch with your
vet and say, hey, it's been thislong.

(42:06):
At what point do we need to beconcerned?
So you know, but really givethem the time and the space to
come out on their own.
Tons of reinforcement andencouragement when they do right
.
Throw a little party the firsttime they come out of their
hiding spot.
You can leave treats around theroom to encourage them.
All of those things are goingto make them feel more

(42:26):
comfortable.
But they also have to gothrough their pre-flight
checklist of being animals whocan be eaten by other animals
who are in a new space.

Amy Castro (42:38):
Good point and what kind of like one of my biggest
fears in moving because I am nottaking the vast majority of the
stuff.
This has been a great time forme to pare down on stuff.
I say to myself do I want topay to move that?
Do I like that enough that I'mgoing to pay to move that?
And so I'm really getting ridof a lot of stuff, which means

(42:58):
I'm going to be bringing instrange stuff and, as we have
lived here in this house, whenstrange stuff comes in it,
inevitably somebody pees on it.
I mean, it's just, and sometimesit's hard because we're we are
running a rescue and so life isa bit chaotic for my animals

(43:19):
anyway.
I realize that, but I certainlydon't want to get there, set up
my safe room and then I buy newfurniture and then, because I
already know who's going to peeon it, it's the one with no eyes
, she's the peer and that makesperfect sense because that's her
way to identify her spaces Ifthey don't smell like her and
she can't see them it makes themextra scary.
Yes, I also have people say, ohwell, my cat's never done this

(43:42):
before, you know.
Or when people will say they'rehaving issues with soiling or
aggression or something likethat, it's like when did it
started?
What's going on in the house?
It's like, oh yeah, we justmoved into a brand new house.
Well, that sort of explains whythey peed on the counter,
possibly, anyway, but what can Iexpect on the other end and
what should I watch out for andhow can I prevent it?
I guess is even better question, thinking about ways that you

(44:04):
can keep stress low.

Routine play sessions, a little extra
attention, making sure that ifyou've got more than one cat
they're not fighting with eachother, right?
Those are things that are goingto help keep stress low.
Letting them slowly acclimate,right.
So wait until they feel niceand relaxed and comfortable
moving around their safe room,eating and drinking and using

(44:28):
the litter box normally.
Then crack the door and givethem the option, when they're
ready, to come out and exploreother areas.
Tons of positive reinforcementwhen they do so, they
immediately know that goodthings happen.
When they step out of that safespace, you can take again
something they slept on right,something that smells like them.

(44:51):
Rub that on new furniture,anything new.
You can rub it at cat noseheight along the walls.
That's going to help them feellike they're in less foreign
space.
You know also if there wereprevious pets in the home you're
moving into that can be atrigger.
Yes, right, so spreading yourcat scent around can really be

(45:13):
helpful there, just trying toavoid forcing anything or
pushing anything.

Amy Castro (45:20):
Yeah, Because I think sometimes people don't
realize that for some cats I cansee that process taking a while
before your cat feelscomfortable coming, especially
if you move to a bigger place.
That takes them longer toexplore.
So don't be surprised thatthey're not just their jolly old
selves.

Yeah, don't be surprised.
Either way, they could settlein faster than you expect them
to too.
But yeah, you know there are alot of things that you can do to
help encourage right Rewarding,brave behavior, rewarding them
coming out and exploring,rewarding them going from more
nervous to more comfortable.
This is also the kind of thingthat a feline behavior expert

(46:00):
can help with, because there maybe a trigger that you're not
even aware of.
You know, maybe the safe roomthat they're in is the place
where the previous owner's catused to pee, and so it smells
like another cat and that'sscary.
Maybe there's a stray catoutside the windows, that's a
big one comes out to the windowright.
Maybe there's a dog barking nextdoor, maybe they're in a room

(46:23):
with the furnace and it's tooloud.
There's all kinds of potentialtriggers that an expert can help
you find and address if you'renot making progress.
Also, keep in mind if you'removing into a really big space,
sometimes it can be helpful whenit's time to let them come out
and explore outside their safespace, to kind of partition

(46:44):
areas off so that it's not sooverwhelming.

Amy Castro (46:47):
Like shut those extra bedroom doors, kind of
thing.

Shut doors, yeah.
Or if you know, you open thedoor that they're in and it's a
big, giant loft and that'sintimidating.
Take some of those boxes thatyou have and just make a little
fake wall eight feet from theirdoor.
It's not meant to keep them in,it may just be, you know, a few
feet of wall and then anopening, but it's less
overwhelming because they're notseeing a giant space.

(47:10):
They're seeing the eight feetin front of them and then, when
they're ready, they can poketheir head around those boxes
and see a larger space.
Right, so there are ways thatyou can break it into bite-sized
adjustments if they're notdoing well with the full
adjustment, good advice.

Amy Castro (47:26):
So you mentioned obviously working with a
behavior expert.
At what point does somebody saythis isn't working, or my cat's
not adjusting, or you know thisbehavior has become intolerable
.
You know, obviously if itbecomes intolerable then
obviously you should seek somehelp.
But like let's just say, forexample, my cat with no eyes.

(47:47):
So she comes out and she getsup on the kitchen counter and
pees on something on the kitchencounter.
It's like do I say, oh my gosh,here we go again and
immediately jump on it.
Or is there like a period oftime where it's like, okay,
maybe certain behavior isexpected?

I would say it's never too early because if your
cat is having a reaction,there's something that can be
done to help ease that reactionright.
Everything a cat does they'redoing for a reason.
So if they're doing somethingthat you don't want them doing
or that you know you can tell isis from stress, there's always

(48:23):
more that we can do to help reinthat in and calm them down and
address whatever is stressingthem out.
So if you feel like you'veexhausted your capabilities,
it's never too soon to reach outfor support.
What I would encourage on theother side of that is don't wait
until you can't take it anymore.
So many of the people that Iwork with.

(48:45):
They are literally at thebreaking point.
Like this is the last straw andfor their mental health it's
not good, right, because itreally damages the relationship
between them and their cats.
And this was the life that I ledbefore I got into this business
.
I had damaged relationshipswith these things that I loved
so much, because they werepeeing on my stuff and they were

(49:07):
fighting with each other and Ithought it was them, but it was
me.
So if you wait until the lastminute, it's harder on everybody
.
The more stressed out you are,the more stressed out the cats
are, which is going to furtherwhatever the problem is.
But also, just from a selfishperspective, it's a lot of
pressure on the expert thatyou're working with when they

(49:27):
hear things like if you can'thelp me fix this.
I'm getting rid of this cat.
Yeah Right, you know I hear thata lot.
If we can't, you're the laststraw.
If we can't fix this with you,we're getting rid of this cat.
That's a really scary thing toput on the person you're working
with, so don't let it get thatfar.
If you know help is available,go get it.
Make your life easier.

Amy Castro (49:48):
Sure, is there an element also of allowing
something to become a habit?
A hundred percent.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and it's hard to
break habits.
Also, cats are incredibly goodat forming associations, good
and bad.
So this is another one of thosethings that can really help you
understand cats just generallycats, and especially
introductions and scary things,because cats cats are
instinct-based, right, fight orflight, they learn very quickly.

(50:17):
This could be dangerous Mentalnote avoid that at all costs.
It only takes once for a cat tolearn that lesson and then,
once they've learned it, youhave to help them unlearn it.
So, like a habit, it can taketime to teach a cat.
No, you don't have to worryabout that tiger eating you when

(50:38):
you step into the jungle.
That tiger's not there anymore.
Right, that's not an easylesson to learn, yeah, so the
longer those things go on,definitely the harder they can
be to resolve.
Doesn't mean it can't be done,though.
Yeah.
It just takes a lot more timeand patience on your part.

Amy Castro (50:54):
My cat spent a lot of time in my master bedroom and
my master bathroom and the onewithout the eyes.
Much of her kittenhood wasliving in my master bathroom and
then extending to my bedroombecause I was concerned about
her ability to navigate thehouse and concerned about the
dogs and whatever.
So it's interesting that shehas never done any kind of

(51:14):
inappropriate urination.
And I have the nose.
I have the nose.
Like you would not believe, Ican smell cat pee and it may
take me a while to find wheresomebody did it, but I will find
it because it's like I cansmell it as soon as I get, you
know, in a in a house, but she'snever peed in my room.

It smells like her .
She feels safe there.
Yeah, there are very specificreasons that cats will pee on
things.
It's either a medical issue, anemotional issue or a litter box
setup issue.
So if none of those things arepresent in that space, because
she feels nice and secure there,she has her needs met.
While there she doesn't haveany need to.

Amy Castro (51:53):
Yeah, exactly.

I think the biggest things to keep in mind
are just don't assume you knowhow your cat's going to react
good or bad, right Prepare forworst case scenario just in case
.

Amy Castro (52:04):
Yeah, it's always better to be pleasantly
surprised than disappointed.

Especially with something like this where you
could lose your cat right, youwant it to be as safe as
possible.
Yeah, be as patient andunderstanding as you can in a
time when you are alreadystressed out to the max.
Just try to understand fromyour cat's perspective.
This is a really big deal too.
So you know they may talk thewhole trip and you may want to

(52:30):
pull your hair out, but do yourbest to try to stay calm and
patient and understanding.
Lots of safety precautions,plan ahead, start early and I
think it's helpful to mention,just because we've kind of
talked, you know, sort of allover the place here.
I think, amy, the way youactually found me was the
article on preventive vet, whichis why I wanted to mention them
.
I do actually found me was thearticle on preventive vet, which

(52:51):
is why I wanted to mention them.
I do some writing for anamazing group called preventive
vet, preventive vetcom.
They provide tons of completelyfree training, behavior,
incredible health and medicalarticles, all written and
reviewed by veterinarians andbehavior experts.
So they're a really fantasticresource for any dog or cat

(53:15):
parent.
But there's an article therethat goes kind of step by step
from beginning to end of thingsto keep in mind when you're
moving.
So for people who need a littlebit more of a kind of a
checklist, a checklist yeahexactly, yeah, that can be a
good place to look.
Perfect yeah, that can be aplace to look.
Perfect yeah, there's alsoarticles there about carrier
training, getting comfortable inthe car, all of those kinds of

(53:38):
things, so that can reallyreally help if you're trying to
plan ahead for your trip.

Amy Castro (53:42):
Yeah, if you've got that luxury, to plan for it for
sure and don't wait till thelast minute, that's.
You know, that's one of thethings with moving in general.
I think the more that you planfor things in advance and don't
make assumptions that you can dostuff at the last minute, it's
probably better, because nobodyneeds that.
Even if you could do that atthe last minute, nobody needs
the stress, right?

(54:02):
So if you can start, a process,now go ahead and start it, and
when you're talking about ananimal who already has issues
with acclimating to change, thenthe more lead time you give
them, the better off things aregoing to be for everybody
involved.

Definitely.
You know one thing.
We didn't mention that weprobably should.
If you're staying in overnightaccommodations, just because
they say they are pet friendlydoes not mean they are cat
friendly.
A lot of places will say theyaccept pets, but what they mean
is they accept dogs.
So you want to call ahead andhave reservations.
Don't plan on finding a placeon the road, because that could

(54:38):
really leave you stressed out ortrying to sneak your cat in
which you don't want to have todo.

Amy Castro (54:43):
Yeah, well, and obviously it's hard to plan for
everything, but, yeah, it'sbetter to, especially when
you've never done it.
Yeah, but that's why we've gotthe benefit of number one
listening to this podcast, usingsome of the resources that
we'll link.
I mean, there's so muchinformation out there that you
just you have to look for it.
But I think, thinking throughthe process from the time that

(55:03):
you decide you're going to moveor take the big trip or whatever
it might be, to the time thatyou arrive and your pets are
fully acclimated if you justkind of ask yourself and then
what's going to happen, and thenwhat's the next step?
And what's the next step If youkind of walk yourself through
that process, like putting themout in the car, how am I going

(55:28):
to get them in the car?
Am I going to step on beforeyou actually step on them?
But definitely definitely wantto do some homework and do as
much pre-planning as youpossibly can.
Well, leanna, thank you so muchfor being here and sharing all
of this great advice.
I feel slightly better aboutthe whole process.

I have a unique gift of making people feel both
better and more paranoid at thesame time.

Amy Castro (55:52):
Well, you know you want to have a balanced
expectation, Like you said.
You know we said be preparedfor the worst, and then you can
be pleasantly surprised,appreciate all the advice and
information and, for everybodythat's listening out there, you
know, make sure you takeadvantage of the resources that
are in our show notes.
If you're like I said, you'retraveling, you're going to start
traveling with your cats oryou're making a move, taking at

(56:14):
least some of these steps aregoing to make it a lot less
stressful experience for you andyour cat.
So check out those resourcesand thank you again for
listening to another episode ofMuddy Paws and Hairballs.
We will see you next week.
Thanks for listening to MuddyPaws and Hairballs.
Be sure to visit our website atmuddypawsandhairballscom for

(56:36):
more resources and be sure tofollow this podcast on your
favorite podcast app so you'llnever miss a show.
And hey, if you like this show,text someone right now and say
I've got a podcastrecommendation.
You need to check the show outand tell them to listen and let
you know what they think.
Don't forget to tune in nextweek and every week for a brand
new episode and if you don't doanything else this week, give
your pets a big hug from us.

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