Sister Wives S6 E10 - Polygamist Marriage Therapy - Part 1

The Browns travel to a couples retreat to tackle their relationship issues head on. After a meditation session that barely eases the emotional stress, they finally make a discovery on the root cause of their internal conflicts.

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Sister Wives is a TLC docuseries starring Kody Brown, Meri Brown, Christine Brown, Janelle Brown, Robyn Brown, and their family.

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
What does the nanny do? OK, so we're done.
Goodbye. You.
Shut it off. Do not twist my words.
Do not make me a victim, sweetie.
Just look at the mountain. That's what you saw that day.
Just the knife in the kidneys over all these years and the
sacrifices that I made to love you.

(00:48):
Join us, won't you, on the couch for this therapy session, A
polygamist marriage therapy session.
Join us on the Chaise Lounge of Life.
Of a questionable in pathetic life.
We are on season 6, episode 10 of Sister Wives.
The episode is called Polygamist Marriage therapy.

(01:12):
I've been excited about this episode.
I've been looking forward to it because we get to meet a new
character in the Sister Wives universe and it is what it is.
We get to see more dysfunction on display.
She's no Mona. Oh, she is.
Tell you that she's no Mona and I'm disappointed about that.
You can't replace Mona. We all know you can't replace
Mona. Mona, would you please go and

(01:33):
get your therapy license, please?
Please. Please join us again.
Yeah, it's hard to replace Mona.
Mona is one-of-a-kind Mona. Truly.
Truly is one-of-a-kind. Truly.
To start out this episode, we'reon the couch with the family.
Well, with the parents. We don't get any children in

(01:53):
this episode. None of the kids.
I mean, there's a couple shots with the kids, but.
We get Leon. Oh, that I'm such an idiot.
Well, how could I have forgotten?
About that, they're not really worth mentioning often.
I agree. I agree so well.
OK, spoiler alert, we get Leon. And so the parents are on the
couch and Kody's talking about how in the past they have seen a

(02:15):
therapist named Pat. This was back when they were in
Utah. And he makes sure to emphasize
for us that Pat specializes in plural family issues.
Take note. Highlighted Highlighted in your
book. They have not been able to see
Pat because Pat is not licensed in their current state.

(02:36):
Oh so. Bad.
Too bad you can't see Pat in LasVegas.
And we are going to be introduced to a new therapist, a
new psychologist, a new psychoanalyst, a new head Dr.
I'm not sure if they actually said what her designation is.
I don't note it. They showed us her door with her

(02:56):
designations after her name, but I did not write them down.
I know I saw some acronyms or some whatnots and I was like who
cares? Marriage, family counseling
therapist. And I will refer to this person
as a head Dr. and this head Dr.is Nancy, Nancy Hunterton.
And Nancy came on a high recommendation from Pat.

(03:19):
Now, does that mean? Not quite sure, but maybe we'll
figure it out. Pat did some research to see if
there was a therapist in the area that would be a good fit
for the family and after speaking with Nancy, Pat decided
that Nancy would be a good fit.
We find out that the parents are all going to go with Nancy and
Pat to Sedona, AZ for a marriage retreat.

(03:42):
Now, when I hear marriage retreat, I would think that it
was maybe more than one couple.
Well, I guess I am coming to this from a lens of a
monogamist, a sick, twisted monogamist.
So you know, when I've seen marriage retreats on other
shows, there's usually multiple couples and they're going
through scenarios and whatever those things are called when
they're sitting around doing. Doing exercises.

(04:04):
Thank you. But this one is just going to be
the Browns because they are a polygamist couple and they're
special and there's a camera crew and a production crew and
lights and all of the things. So we're just going to get the
Brown family at a marriage retreat with Pat and Nancy.
The adults go to meet Nancy and we start our experience with

(04:25):
Nancy by doing an exercise for unearthing their personality
traits and miscellaneous whatnot.
They're going to do a personality test.
I noted on one of the pieces of paper it says Anne Graham, which
I have done before and I'm going to quiz you about it
because I think you have not done it, or if you have done it,
you don't know what you are. I don't remember.

(04:45):
I think I've done these before in college and I've done similar
things. I think many people in their
adult life when they start a newjob, their job will do, get to
know me type of things and make them do one for that so that we
can work our best together. That type of deal.
When I, I had a workplace where we did that and they gave us

(05:08):
beads where we put our colors that symbolized whatever our
outcomes were on a safety pin that we put into our cubicle.
And I was going, wow, who has the mental wherewithal to come
up to someone's cubicle and go, oh, they're a blue, orange,
green, red, like, oh, I know what that means.
I was just like, this is so ridiculous.
This is why people laugh at these kind of things, because
it's like, what are you even talking about?

(05:29):
I worked at a nonprofit and we did one step further.
You had to put your name, a picture of you and ways that you
work best with others in the description under your thing
next to your cube. That'd be funny if it was like,
leave me alone, don't waste my time, I don't need friends.
Doesn't work well with others. Yeah, it just doesn't work.

(05:51):
Well done with others, period. When they're diving into this
exercise, we get a clip of Christine saying I've been
romantic and imaginative or pragmatic and some other words.
Down to earth, but first she
announces that she can read. Oh, she does.
She does say she can read. That's right, I can read.
Nancy asks if someone can read the questions and Christine kind

(06:13):
of makes a joke joke of it. Christine goes, I can read.
I've been romantic and imaginative, or I've been
pragmatic and down to earth. What a wonderful example.
And this is where I was like, they are definitely taking an
Enneagram test because it's usually teed up for this versus
that and then it collects and then you get an outcome.

(06:34):
Of course, Meri has to chime in going, I don't like this.
And I was shocked. I was shocked that Meri didn't
like it. I I thought Meri liked
everything, had a great attitude about everything.
Kody gives us a voice over moment where he says
stereotypically, a female therapist is going to appear to
be a feminist and a threat to plural marriage, maybe even our

(06:56):
family. A.
Threat. Just assuming that therapist is
going to be a feminist because she's a female, she's going to
hate him. She's going to hate the family
dynamic and be a threat to the family.
Right. You know, Kody, it's funny
because they talk about being judged by people all the time,

(07:17):
and then they come to these situations with their own
judgments. And it's like, OK, well, here
you are. He's talking about feminist as
well, like it's a bad word, when really a feminist is all about
equality, right? All it means being equal and
women should be able to choose.
Men should be able to choose. So if your wives are able to

(07:39):
choose, why is feminist a bad word to you especially?
Because the narrative that thesepeople tee up all the time is
that the women. Are the women are in charge?
And he's just, you know, the bumbling boob floating around
being told what to do. And it's like, OK.
We all know that's bullshit. I did want to make note that
while they're doing this Enneagram test, I had a
flashback into the future about how later in the series, way

(08:01):
down the road, someone is pointing out something about
Robyn and how she reacts to things.
And they harken back to this very exercise where they say,
well, Robyn, when we did the anagram, you were A and I want
to say they say she was a four. I don't remember what number,
but highlighting something abouther personality type with this.
And she literally says that she

(08:22):
never did it and she thinks someone else did it because she
wasn't there. And it's like, you are a liar.
This is the episode that we see her doing the test with people.
She doesn't want to be accountable for anything ever.
Clearly This is why she has mistrust issues with Nancy that
we will get into. But I just wanted to point out
for our listeners that have seen the show before and are going,
didn't this come up in the future?

(08:43):
It absolutely does, and Robyn says that she never did this
with them and here we see her doing it.
Liar liar pants are on fire with those diamonds on the butt
just burning up. Burning up those buns.
And that white stitching on the dark denim really ties it all
together. I noticed as well that they

(09:04):
obviously had to gather up extra chairs in this tiny office.
Oh, were they cramped in there?
Random mismatch of chairs, Obviously not the way that the
therapist's office is usually laid out.
I. Suppose she's probably not
usually doing therapy with five adults, but it.
Made me question the fact that she's an expert in plural

(09:25):
marriage. Well, but Nancy's not the
expert. Remember, Pat's the expert.
Oh, you're right. So Nancy, but if Nancy does have
any experience with family therapy, you would still think
you might need. More than an account, more than
a regular chaise lounge. Yeah, true, true.
Now I'm starting to question Nancy and her qualifications and
her experience. Wow.

(09:46):
Hot off the heels of Robyn saying that women are more
judgmental of their lifestyles than men, we hear from Kody and
he's basically saying that he doesn't want Nancy to tell him
that he's the one who has to self improve or do all the work
when they all should be doing it.
I'm sure that happens quite regularly for him, as we've
discussed before. So I can see being a little

(10:08):
defensive about that. You know, everyone else is fine
and I'm the one that has to change.
You know we don't like to give. He's the common denominator
between all of them, so he's theone that gets pointed out all
the time is the problem and the one that needs to change.
This is a little foreshadowing and I'm not mad about it.
At first when he said this, I thought, of course you need to

(10:33):
change, of course it's you Kody,how do you not see this?
But as the episode progresses, Imay or may not get where he is
coming from. Oh.
All right, that's a little foreshadowing on my part.
I may or may not get where he's coming from.
OK, OK. Yeah.
All right. He's saying here he's sick of

(10:55):
being the one that has to be told everything from everybody
and be told what to do and how he needs to fix it all the time.
My issue with this is when it
comes to their religion, he is the one that's supposed to fix
it. He shouldn't have gotten himself
into a plural marriage if he wasn't ready for and wasn't able

(11:16):
to be the person to fix it. Because the whole point of this
religion and having multiple wives is that you are ready and
you are receiving of these wives and God is telling you to take
these wives because you are ready and able to through.
Your tool, absolutely. So if you're not able to, if
your tool can't handle it, Kody, I don't know you're saying

(11:38):
here, don't come to me to fix it.
However, in your religion, you're supposed to be the one to
fix it. Kody also highlights to us that
one of the reasons they're doing this marriage retreat is
to really pin down their mission statement or what should
go into their mission statement.
This drives me a little nuts because I'm going, you know,

(12:00):
it's so succinct. It's so like small.
And it comes up over and over again in this episode where they
reference the mission statement and a future upcoming thing
that they're going to be doing that we'll talk about.
Where I'm thinking, isn't therapy a little bit more broad
and about self examination holistically and relationships?
Not just, I should say just, but why would you be emphasizing a

(12:22):
mission statement to a therapist?
Well, Nancy asks them what they would really like to achieve by
going to therapy and by doing this whole exercise.
What would you really like to achieve on this retreat?
And Meri says communication. I'd like to get better at
communication. And Christine says their family

(12:43):
mission statement, they want to be able to come to a conclusion
as a family, come together as a family to come up with what's
the most important things for them.
OK, so it kind of has to do with all the aspects that would go
into a family mission statement.
But it's very forced. It's a forced narrative by the

(13:05):
producers to bring it back to this mission statement.
When in all reality, if you werein therapy and you're working
towards your life goals, of course that would be in your
mission statement, what you're working towards, right?
If I'm working to become a better person, if I'm working to
forget my trauma, that would probably be part of my mission

(13:25):
statement would be to be able tolet go to be a better person.
Like, duh, these guys. Circles now that you say that it
must be production driven fromsome lens, even if it's just
being beaten to their heads. Like they're being reminded
constantly that they have to do this thing because you know,
Christina is the driver behind their mission statement from

(13:46):
what we can tell and trying to get it done at least.
It's just the way it's referenced in this episode
multiple times makes me feel weird.
It's contrived. Yeah, it's contrived, as have
the last. How many episodes have they've
been contrived, trying to put the pins into place?
I don't know. We're burying things.

(14:08):
We're writing things. We're.
Starting plastic bags on fire. Starting plastic on fire About
to start these brand new homes on fire with a Robyn's fire pit
that potentially could fall apart.
Boy. Kody gives us another wonderful
word of wisdom here, specifically a word that I was
caught off by, and I thought, wow, I really need to

(14:31):
incorporate this more in my life.
One of the things we'd like to do, he tells us, is inaugurate
their mission statement as part of their lives.
So he's teeing up this upcoming commitment ceremony that we're
going to learn about, a family celebration where they're all
going to come together and celebrate their commitment to
each other and to partner with that is their mission statement

(14:53):
that they're going to inaugurate.
I was like, wow, inauguration. I'm familiar with inauguration
when it comes to the president, but I haven't really heard it
used in other ways. So I'm learning new things from
Kody. I'm getting smarter by the aid
of Kody Brown. I'm going to inaugurate that
word into my vocabulary. I don't know if that was the

(15:15):
correct use. Honey, how about you inaugurate
the use of the word inaugurate?Oh, yeah.
OK. All right.
All right. Clarity from Kody.
Oh boy. And after he says this, I'm
thinking to myself, so you're doing this mission statement for
a party. And then I was like, no, Chris,
you are oversimplifying it. But once again, the way that

(15:35):
they kind of jockey these thingsback and forth and talk about
it, you're kind of left scratching your head until you
find out more later. It makes me judge more than I
usually do. No, because he basically is
saying that this mission statement is going to be the
cornerstone part of our family ceremony.
It's going to be an integral part.
It's important we're inaugurating it.

(15:56):
It'll come on a scroll. It will.
They should have buried it in the plastic cooler.
Gosh the timelines are all fucked up.
Gosh. Well, they talk about how it was
bad timing to bury it without the family mission statement.
One of Christine's biggest regrets?
Duh. We get a clip from Robyn and

(16:19):
she's just such a gem. Robyn lets us know that Nancy is
going to need to earn her trust.
She's going to need to earn her trust.
Yeah, because Robyn is cautious when it comes to something like
this. Very.
Cautious. I was reading between the lines
here, and I'll read between them even further later, but I'm
going Robyn, why are you distrustful of a therapist right

(16:40):
off the bat? Someone might see your flaws.
Someone might diagnose you. Therapist can't diagnose you.
But someone might call out things that need to change.
They might pick up on patterns and yeah, it wouldn't be.
Probably wouldn't be good for Robyn in any scenario unless it

(17:02):
was literally the worst therapist on the planet.
Like Robyn would love to see the worst therapist on the planet.
I mean, we'll see. We'll.
See, only time will tell. Can you tread the water here?
Trust us, Nancy is no Mona. She's no Mona.
Mona could have shed a lot of light.
You know, after Mona went through this entire housing

(17:23):
process with them, she probably would have been the best
therapist to them ever. You know how that woman just
held her tongue and you could tell at the very end when she's
sighs and goes, oh, it's over. It's.
Finally over. Thank you, Lord Jesus, it's
over. Mona got on her knees and
prayed. And as we usually get in this

(17:45):
show, we have a seamless transition into our next scene
where we have Leon and Kody and Meri joined together at Meri's
house to have a discussion, a frank and honest conversation
about Leon's future, their educational future.
We learned that while Leon did receive a scholarship to
Westminster, it turns out it was less than they had assumed.

(18:07):
And I'm going, duh. That was something I was
hammering. And I said, Chris, shut up.
Nobody cares. Stop talking about it.
Scholarships, usually, it's not as if you get one scholarship
and your college is paid for. I don't know where these people
are even. I guess maybe they have a lack
of understanding schools and how education funding works.

(18:28):
Still. It's a drop in, I mean, even a
good scholarship that some people get, it's $5000.10
thousand. Well, $10,000 does not pay for a
college education. I believe that they said Leon
got a $10,000 scholarship previously.
It was a drop in the bucket. Yes, and they are going to have
to have a hard talk with Leon about the lack of funds to go to

(18:48):
Westminster. We find out that Meri is not
ready to give up. No.
Meri cannot crush Leon's dreams.
Only some of the dreams, not this dream.
No, no, no, no, no, Leanne says.I'll get a second job.
This summer, This summer, a second summer job, A senior in

(19:11):
high school. OK.
Not even realizing tuition has to be paid by a certain time.
You have to pay your tuition before you start school.
I can't believe they're talking about this right now.
Can I tell you they're talking about this?
The tuitions probably already do.
For real. Yeah, I don't remember.

(19:34):
I feel well. I went to a state school and I
want to say tuition was due two weeks after school started to
give people an opportunity for student loans to come in.
But I that's a state school. I don't know what Westminster is
all about. I think you had to prove and be
applied though by that time andit was already on its way to the
school type of thing. Agreed.

(19:54):
Yeah, it might not have come through yet, but it was already
I think so done. There's a cut off where you get
fines or extra expenses on top of it.
They're in springtime, about to go into summer for they're
talking about fall semester of the same year.
Anyone who's listening and has dealt with college applications

(20:16):
themselves or for children realizes that this timeline is
going to be a no for me dog. It's going to be a no for this
college dog. I don't know.
I think Kody points out how Westminster cost 4 times the
amount of UNLV, which is where Logan is going and they have a
little bit more of an understanding of the costs, just

(20:38):
to reemphasize how Westminsteris not a cheap school, which we
have been saying from the very beginning.
Kody says after Leon says oh I'll get a second job.
Kody says that won't be enough and we cannot take the money
from the family budget but maybewe could take it from your
budget. And he points at Meri and that

(20:59):
selfish bitch. What does she do?
She kind of skirts around it andignores it.
Oh, I thought she went and took a picture of the wet bar to put
on Facebook Marketplace, but no, I I was hallucinating.
I was hallucinating. To rent it out.
I've got an event space in my 5 bedroom house.
I've got a wet bar 4 feet away from the kitchen sink.

(21:22):
Oh, it was a little weird to seeKody bringing this up to Meri
about how it should come out of her budget.
That Leon's schooling should potentially come out of her
budget instead of the family's budget because she does have a
reaction I understand, which is we've never discussed this as a
family. We already have a child in
college and we never came together and discussed how we
were going to finance that. I think Meri might have even

(21:44):
said we don't. She doesn't even know the
details about how Logan's schooling is being paid for.
Meri says we do not have a budget for education for each
child. We've never discussed this and
Kody makes a point of saying this is the difference.
You're not an only child, you have 17 siblings.
Westminster is a school for an only child or a well off family

(22:07):
essentially not a family with 17 other kids to put through
school. Leon has been treated like an
only child. Yeah.
This, to me is Kody calling out.Hey Leon.
Ding Ding, Ding, Ding Ding. Not an only child, you remember
that? Unfortunately, my empathy for

(22:29):
Kody starts to wane because he talks about how assuming the
debt for this is not OK for him,he'd like to retire one day.
I know I've referenced it before.
It drives me nuts the way he talks about college education
funding because he does this black or white thing.
You can't go into debt, you can't do whatever, you can't
blah blah blah. You have to be able to work and

(22:51):
pay your way through college, which is really when I was in
college. I work part time all the time
through college. There wasn't any way I was
covering tuition with my part time uneducated college income,
you know? Here's one thing I'm going to
say in defense of Kody here, andyou're not going to hear me say
this very often. He says that he would be paying
off this one student loan for at least 30 years, and he wants

(23:14):
to be able to retire. Yeah.
Now we need to remember that Kody is married to Meri.
So Leon's applications for student loans are based off of
this dual family income between Kody and Meri.
Yes. This situation is completely
different than any other child situation.

(23:35):
If they weren't married, Leon would probably be able to get
more money from the state or more scholarships.
So this is an actual interestingsituation here and I get where
Kody is coming from. It's a little selfish to think
that you are going to get this huge education budget and what

(23:59):
are the rest of your siblings going to do?
You are not an only child. I think that there's something
going on behind the scenes that we don't know.
Meri even says we have been talking about this.
We have been applying for things.
I've been on the phone. You haven't been here.
You haven't been here for the conversations.
And I want to say right now, this would have been a good

(24:24):
reason to divorce Kody, not because of Robyn.
This would have been a good reason.
Hey, my child wants to go to college.
What can I get my child for money for college versus being
married to this guy? Interesting.
I wonder if this was floating around in her head yet.
At this point, rumor has it thatseeds were planted by Robyn.

(24:46):
You know about oh, well, maybe you could divorce and then blah
blah blah blah blah and yadda yadda yadda.
I'm unsure if that's happened yet.
It would be interesting to know if she's thinking about it yet.
It wouldn't be new for
polygamists to manipulate the This is IT system.
Bleeding the beast, right? Absolutely.
Yeah. Kody has a great line here.

(25:06):
This is expensive and is more than can be covered by an $8 an
hour job at a clothing store, which I loved.
I was totally like, it is so true because Leon is positioning
themselves right now in this defiance.
The the non verbals is very Oh my God, Oh my God, I'm on the
verge of tears. Leon's like, what do you want me

(25:27):
to do? It does suck because I know what
it's like to not have parents fund your college education.
It fucking sucks. I know what it's like to have a
parent say I'm not going to cosign for student loans and for
me to have to wait until I was 24 or something to go to college
because they wouldn't cosign for loans, so I couldn't afford to
go. It is a thing.

(25:47):
But Leon just acts like a brat, a spoiled brat.
As we know, that has happened repeatedly.
It continued in this conversation.
I have a very complicated relationship with college
myself. My sister went to college right
away after high school and was encouraged to do so.
My parents were going through a divorce at the time and she
couldn't get a cosigner on loans.
It was really messy. So by the time that I got to

(26:10):
college age, nobody gave a shit to be honest.
Nobody was encouraging me to go to school, nobody was helping
me come up with a plan. They essentially pushed me
towards beauty school saying oh, here you go.
So I can empathize with Leon being scared and feeling that

(26:35):
their dreams are slipping away in this moment and feeling
unsupported. But this conversation should
have been had a long time ago. Long, long time ago.
Especially with how many children you have and how
important education is to you before they even moved to Vegas.
Janelle is talking about how education is one of the most

(26:56):
important things for the family and how her kids are going to
be educated, blah blah blah blah blah.
Obviously it's not that important if you've never even
discussed the budget for it. Meri says that she thinks the
options are Westminster with the scholarships that they've
already got or UNLV with residential tuition.
And Leon says what I'm hearing is no school or UNLV.

(27:26):
Very true, Leon. That's what you're hearing.
And unfortunately, your mom is kind of confirming that she's.
Doing a merry thing where she skirts around and doesn't want
to be the disappointment queen that she is.
Letting Leon down again. This is a moment where I
probably would end up divorced because I would really push

(27:48):
against my spouse and say I am Co signing for loans for my
child to go to school. It is a deal breaker for me that
you are preventing my child from moving forward in life.
So you know, this is also by I'm not married and I don't have
kids and, you know, forever alone.
I just Meri is avoidant on It's weird because she doesn't skirt

(28:09):
away from some conflict in some combative situations, but then
when it seems like it would really serve, she does this
whole can't, you know? She does stand up for Leon and
herself and say we have been talking about this.
You haven't been around. You have not been part of the
discussions. I have been on the phone, Kody.
I've been on the phone with everybody and I can tell that

(28:31):
Meri is fighting really hard for what Leon wants here and this
situation hits so close to home for me it's not even funny.
Honestly this conversation sucks to hear and God I I wish that
our country cared more about education.
It makes me sick to think of all of the kids that are so smart

(28:53):
and talented in this world and don't get to go to school
because they can't afford it. It also makes me sick to think
of all of the people that are strapped down with student loans
that can't afford to even take care of themselves because of
their student loans. So it's a hard conversation to
be had and I cannot imagine being selfish enough to have 17

(29:14):
children and not have this in the bag, not have it figured
out. Well, it's specifically for
college education. Having it in the bag doesn't
even necessarily mean that you have the money to pay for it,
but you need to be open to to have a plan on how you're going
to tackle the issue. Kody just putting his foot down

(29:35):
and crossing his arms is not a plan.
It's ridiculous. This is only the second child,
mind you, that they're having the discussion about.
This is 2 of to 17. We've got 15 more kids to go
under here. And this is where each child
gets less and less attention, less and less funding, less and

(29:56):
less of, you know, everything from the parents.
And yet we're supposed to have more, we're supposed to have
more support. We're supposed to have all of
this because of all the moms and we're supposed to be this
huge, big supportive family. You can't even support your
second child to go to the college they want to go to.
Says a lot about you as a person.

(30:17):
Kody Brown. And Leon says I'm just going to
do it, as if they're just going to figure it out and there's no
other option. I think we've all been young and
we've all said something similar and done whatever.
They're going to have a hard time when they show up and
they're escorted out of the classroom because they haven't
paid their tuition. So, you know, it's good for you,
Leon. You're basically auditing this

(30:39):
class. You're not going to get credit.
You can sit in if you want, but you're not going to get college
credits for it because you didn't pay.
You didn't. Pay.
We cut to Kody and I'm assuming he's at Robyn's.
Kody is packing up his jewelry pieces that he's been working so
diligently on and he's about to give them out before the Sedona

(30:59):
trip. He wants each wife to have their
special piece of jewelry before this special trip.
Oh so special. He's put his heart and his soul
into these pieces and he doesn't want them thinking, oh, that
one's beautiful, but mine's not.
He is concerned about each wife hating or loving their jewelry

(31:25):
piece. What a concern.
I mean, you know, there was no way to avoid this.
It's not like he completely manufactured the entire
situation and then manufactured in quotes the jewelry.
But you know, to make it all OK,he's putting them into beautiful
gift bags, honey, with beautiful tissue paper, and he's
going to give them to the wives all at the same time.
These gift bags, he's pulling them out of a giant box as if

(31:50):
they have these gift bags and these are the bags they give out
when they go to their. Yeah, to the Expos.
To the Expos. Yeah, it's this giant box of
gift bags. It's pretty funny.
Yeah, and they are basic. They're literally one color and
the tissue papers and one color.
They are mass produced blah blah blah.
They look like what you'd give goodie bags out to children 100

(32:12):
in. Yeah, Kody says.
The devil comes out when they compare pieces.
This is the kind of stuff that makes me want to poke my eyes
out. He's worried about them
comparing the pieces and being jealous of each other's, but
he'll poke his eyes out. I think you're right that he was

(32:36):
at Robyn's because I noted that all of the wives are waiting in
Meri's kitchen to receive these once in a lifetime gifts and
right before this very special marriage retreat.
Oh. There's also signs behind him
that look like they go up at the Expo and they have the My
Sister Wives logos on them and then the box of the gift

(32:59):
wrapping is there. So all of these boxes of the
shit that belong with the jewelry are there, which they
have to be at Robyn's house then, right?
She's got the boxes of shit everywhere.
Probably. Yeah, and the sign behind him
had graphics that looked like they were clipped art, Word art,
where Clippy, the helper in the Word document was saying it's

(33:21):
going to be let's use that. That's a good font.
Well honey, you are talking about my sister wife's closet
world headquarters. OK, so shit, let's give it the
respect that it deserves. Which is Clippy in the clip art.
You're right. With a fountain out front that
looks like the knuckle bear claw I forgot about.
That this is it, darn it. World Headquarters.
Who gets their jewelry first? Oh well, wife #1 Meri, of

(33:45):
course, the most special wife. I didn't even realize they were
going in or Oh no, they. They don't, they don't, they
don't go in order, but they start with Meri and she opens up
her gift. She opens up her little box that
the jewelry's in and she goes, that's really cool.
And I was like, oh, really cool.

(34:05):
It's not really cool. It's really, I can't even say it
right. Really cool.
Really. Cool.
Really cool. Really cool.
Oh God. And of course, Kody has to tell
us the story about how Fidelis is on the jewelry, which is
Latin for loyalty, right? I'm sorry, you guys, right now
I'm making my face melt with my fingers because I just can't.

(34:26):
I can't even. And that has the heart with the
heart on, as you talked about in our previous in our previous
episode. In our.
Previous episode and it really is beautiful.
It's a one-of-a-kind. It's really cool.
Really cool. The molds they must have used to
form this sterling silver werenot detailed at all.

(34:49):
Oh, you thought they lacked detail?
Very much so. Oh, OK.
I thought they looked pristine, like something you would pay
thousands of dollars. Sharp and crisp.
But if but if it was available wholesale, let let's say guilt
on Silverton. Yeah, look at me.

(35:10):
Look at me remembering. The mermaids swimming in the
background. Quality pieces.
I would be enticed to buy them then.
Very enticed you wouldn't be able to control yourself.
No, the guilt would take over after I bought all the pieces
You. Wouldn't be able to put anybody
through college after spending all your money on my sister

(35:32):
wife's closet jewelry, man. Her second wife to receive her
once in a lifetime fabulous giftfrom her doting husband is
Janelle. She opens up her box and I have
to laugh because she just kind of smiles a little and then
turns it to the side and shows Christine.
And Christine says that is so incredibly awesome.

(35:54):
And when I saw it, my reaction was that is so incredibly
hideous. It's gigantic.
First of all, this thing looks like it's about 3 inches long.
Why is Robyn and Kody and this whole jewelry line just trying

(36:14):
to break our necks? That's what I want to know.
It's a huge tree and the leaves on the tree are these giant
black stones, and I don't understand because they're
probably not real. Do you think they're real
something? Well, I didn't think they were
black stones. I thought it was smooth and
black. So I don't know.

(36:34):
I don't. I think it's matte black.
I don't even think they were stones.
Oh. Lord.
Either way, I don't know why they're black.
It's very strange because it just looks like tree roots and a
trunk and then disappearing into black whatnotness.
You're Oh my gosh, I was thinking to myself, Oh well, at
least she got stones on hers. No.
I was probably wrong. I don't think so.
I think it was pretty smooth. Can he get my eyes checked

(36:57):
again? God damn, one of the see.
That's why you're judging the jewelry so harshly, honey.
You're just not seeing. It's just my eyes.
It's my eyes. These.
Masterpieces. The first thing that I noticed
though was the chain that this necklace is on.
It's one of those key chains that you can break, and it's got

(37:19):
the little balls with the pieces between and you could,
you know, kind of break the pieces off and put it back
together, however short or long you wanted it.
A ball and chain necklace he gave her.
That's what she got, The big old tree hanging on it.
But just bigger and larger than those little key chain.

(37:39):
Make it your own size things instead.
It's just jumbo size that's supposed to go around Janelle
neck, her very petite neck. So this has to be kind of big.
It's got to be kind of long, you know?
And Kody steps behind Janelle and places the necklace around
her, and the wives joke that This is why he gave her that
necklace, was to have the opportunity to put it around her

(38:01):
neck all intimately in front of all of them in the kitchen.
It's bizarre. They're joking is so weird.
It makes sense. It's a weird comment to make for
one wife. Instead of saying, oh he gave us
necklaces so he could touch all of our necks and our
decklitages, No, they make it about her.
I thought it was about the chain.

(38:21):
I thought maybe they were making a joke about the chain because
she wouldn't be able to get it off.
That's honestly what I was thinking.
She's like captive that she would never be able to leave
because you couldn't get the necklace.
All it off. You can't get this off.
Oh God. Oh Lord, Oh my.
Oh Lord help. Me got this tree around my neck.

(38:44):
But Janelle is very earthy, so he just wants her to know that
he thinks of her as dirt. What comes out of the dirt I.
Should say Earth. Our third wife to receive her
gift is not Christine. So we go out of order here.
It's going to be Robyn. Oh, beautiful Robyn.
She gets a heart with bird feather wings coming off around

(39:10):
it, like fingers off the side of a heart, and this basic
rudimentary creepy looking head with a beak sticking off the
top of the heart and it's supposed to be a phoenix and
it looks like a Demogorgon's ribcage from Stranger Things.
Oh, how specific? I don't understand what this is,
but it's one of the creepiest, nastiest things I think I've

(39:32):
ever seen. Then I would not hang it on my
neck for fear of it stealing my soul.
Well, to be fair, you couldn't really make it out.
To be fair, my eyes could not see this thing.
But you know, when Robyn's opening up her box, she says.
I'm so nervous. This is so nervous because she

(39:53):
could sense that it wanted to steal her soul.
Well, this for once, Robyn's intuition was actually.
Was. We're continuing with the bird
theme with Robyn. As we've talked about, not only
is she named Robyn, and not only does she lay blue eggs.
She's going to be getting a gift that Kody lets her know a
little bit more about, He says.
A long time ago we had a song that both you and I loved and it

(40:17):
said something about a phoenixrising from the ashes, kind of
like a goddess, you know? I'm going what the fuck?
A phoenix rising out of the ashes is like a goddess?
And aren't you guys polygamous? And isn't goddess kind of weird
to be doing? I, I don't, I just, I was
distracted because I threw up and I had to swallow it quickly,

(40:38):
like I just threw up in my mouth.
So I kind of got distracted during all of.
This When we first heard of his idea for this phoenix, it was
due to the fact that she rose from the ashes out of her
divorce. Right, right.
Like a phoenix from your divorceashes.
She got that beak in that Habsburg jaw and she jutted in

(40:59):
into the air and she caught out of those ashes.
I'm wondering what song this could have been where a goddess
rises out of the ashes like a phoenix.
I'm going. I guess I could have just Google
searched it, but I didn't wantto We're.
Going to move on from the rib cage necklace.
The 4th but not the last. Christine is about to receive

(41:22):
her gift, and she gets this heart with etching on one side.
It's hollow in the middle.
So you get a silver side and an etched side that looks dark.
And on the silver side, there's a little fairy Pixie, A Pixie,
as Kody would call it, sitting on the side.

(41:43):
And he says it's like the Pixie is sitting on the moon, on the
light side of the moon, but she has her dark side on the other
side. Yeah.
The dark side of the moon, which when I first looked at it I
thought it looked like it was covered in scales like a fish.
That's what it looked like to me.
And then when they showed the second shot I saw it looks more

(42:04):
like lattice, like it's. Like hatching?
What do they call that? It is thatching, right?
Like a thatching type of a pattern.
Girl, you're asking me about a pattern.
I just called it lattice. I don't know, it's just
crisscross and it's just weird because it's black underneath
and so it looked to me like scales.
Either way, it just looks like a necklace that's half silver
and half dirty black fish scalesor something.

(42:26):
I don't I not appealing. And Christine definitely felt
the unappeal of this necklace as she opened it.
She looks unexcited and she's just kind of looking at it
there. Would you just look at it?
Just look at it, Robyn. And.
Robyn was just looking at it too.
And she goes, do you love it? And Christine says, yeah, it's

(42:50):
nice. And Chris and I would have said
is. Different.
It's different. It's different.
Would you look at it? Just look at it.
It's different. And Christine says in commentary
she doesn't like the etching. It makes it look harsh, and I
agree. Actually, Christine's piece of

(43:11):
jewelry is probably my favorite of all of them.
But the half of it, the half of it with the fairy sitting on
the shiny side, is cute. Yeah, I'd used it for a key
chain. Yeah, with Janelle's rope
necklace around it as a key chain on my backpack when I was
10. Right.
Well, it aligns with your childhood interest in the

(43:31):
fairies from Ireland or whatever, of course.
Yes. But Christine doesn't seem to
like it, as you were saying. And you know Kody's not going to
be beat down by Christine's disappointment in his thoughtful
gift. He says it's OK, you don't like
it, you inspired me to make it, and you'll still inspire me to
do more. Like he's going to fix this,

(43:55):
he's going to make something better, and she's still
inspiring him. And it's the phoniest bullshit
ever. Yeah, well, they're not even
looking at each other. He wraps it up by saying I've
got this. And I thought, what you what do
you mean you've got this? Like, what is that?
What do you? What is that?
These two people are not connected at all right now.

(44:15):
It is so bizarre. He's talking about himself
making it better as if he's solving a problem.
And meanwhile, it's like, this is a problem that only exists
because you did it anyway. And I don't know that's true.
This makes me hate men so much.
The through line in this jewelryis very much so that it is a man
that made it because there is a lot of etching in the silver.

(44:37):
So instead of it being shiny
pretty pieces of silver, he took big gaudy pieces.
He had them etch into the metal and where the inlays were were
filled with black. If he would have left that
etched but left it silver inside and not put in the black, it

(44:58):
would have been pretty and shiny and feminine.
But Christine is right, she doesn't like it.
It makes it look harsh. It makes it look masculine.
All of these pieces look very masculine, and I kind of can't
believe that Gina allowed it. I was going to say Moreno
Enterprises here. She got my mustard seed last

(45:19):
time and I'm regretting it. I can't believe that she allowed
for the black to be inlaid in the etching.
One of your biggest regrets in life?
One of my biggest regrets is. Giving Gina that fucking mustard
seed God. Damn it, Gina.
Disappointment. Disappointment.
Damn Gina. You let me down.

(45:43):
She really did. This is pretty awful.
Yeah. I wouldn't have put this out.
Hideous. I wouldn't have done it, but
that's just me. Pat is coming to town, coming to
the cul-de-sac. Pat coming to meet the family.
Oh. Pat, our dearly devoted and
loved therapist from the Greater Lehigh region of Utah.

(46:07):
Coming all the way to the Brown family cul-de-sac from Lehigh
is A1 Pat. Don't hear her last name.
Holy shit. Very enthusiastic about Pat's
visit. Is Kimber.
Everyone is. Oh, everyone's very excited.
Everyone's so excited about it.
Well, I felt starstruck because I thought, is this Lyle Lovett
showing up to give us a music performance?

(46:29):
But no, it's a softer version ofLyle Lovett, a more lesbian
looking version. Pat.
And I thought, are we about to get a musical number from Miss
Hannibal? From Annie before she ever met
the kids and they took their toll on her.
Miss Hannibal. Well, also I just remembering

(46:50):
now that I feel there's a vintage SNL skit about someone
named Pat where it's very like gender, you know, is it a man or
a woman? Is he or she gay or straight?
It's just Pat, and it's totally that name that works, and Pat
fits the part. Pat fits the part here.
Pat has freshly dyed hair. She gives us an introduction of

(47:12):
her own. Because Pat introduces herself.
Because Pat is Pat.
She's a feminist. And Pat says the Browns are the
first polygamous family that I have worked with.
I've known them for five years now.
And we heard a little record scratch a mouse.
A little tiny mouse went. Well, not only that, she's never

(47:36):
even paid attention to polygamy, according to Pat, until she
started working with the Browns.
So I rat scratched the record. Oh yeah, Pat Rat scratched that
Pat record. These liars.
These dirty, dirty, lying Browns.
Why are they liars, honey? They said that Pat was a

(47:56):
specialist in plural relationship.
They absolutely did. Come to find out she didn't give
one flying fuck about polygamybefore she met the Browns.
Interesting. Now, five years after working
with the Browns, she's a specialist in IT.
A How does one get a specialty in plural marriage, eh?
Perhaps working with the Browns for five years, eh?

(48:18):
They. Probably solved a lot of
problems during that time. Clearly they're well adjusted.
Yep, Yep, Yep. Scared a lot of rats out of the
nests in the brown family. This one.
As we see Pat moseying through the homes at the Brown family
cul-de-sac, we hear Meri tellingPat that Meri still needs to
figure out who she is. And I love it because Pat goes

(48:39):
yeah. Yeah.
Which I love. What a great response.
Yeah, you sure do. Which is a little contrary to
what Pat says later here. She says that first Meri and
Kody saw her for communication. So I think that Meri and Kody
went to her individually to begin with.

(49:01):
OK. And then as they felt they could
trust her because remember, they had to keep everything a
secret and hide from everybody for so long.
That makes sense. Everybody started trickling in
and eventually everyone was brought in.
Even Robyn knows her. So this was during the show that

(49:23):
they were still working with Pat and we never knew about it.
These fucking liars.
I would like to say again, Pat tells us that she believes many
of the issues were resolved. Including the family's use of
angry voices and their fears. But luckily these issues were
resolved. Prayings are complicated.

(49:47):
How were these issues resolved?
And isn't that a bit weird for atherapist to say I is anything
ever really completely resolved?I am shocked.
That a therapist would say the issues were resolved?
No. We're always ongoing.
We're always growing, we're always learning.
There is growth to be had. There is new opinions to be had.

(50:09):
Are you kidding to say that they
were resolved? It's a very bizarre statement
for a therapist to say. I it was a huge red flag for me
and I'm no therapist. Large red flag.
Yeah, I'm going. I don't really think that
anything's ever labeled resolved.
I don't really know what that means.
Maybe a math problem? Yeah, right.

(50:31):
Oh, God. Like you paid the bill on time
that month. Well, I guess my billing is
resolved. It's not.
Oh, I have trust issues, but I no longer have them.
It's resolved. Like what?
Things always rear their ugly head, Pat, and you should know
that. And if you don't, I'm concerned,
deeply concerned. Well, Pat, you know, she was so
distracted by learning about this polygamist family so that

(50:53):
she could become a polygamist expert.
She was too busy singing Annie songs and songs from.
From Lyle Lovett. I don't know any Lyle Lovett
songs, but you know, he does have that jet black hair, which
is why I was going. Yeah, the Lyle Lovett look here
I. Just can't believe she was too
busy focused on her music career that she thinks that therapy

(51:13):
issues can be resolved. OK, clearly and with these
people, I'm suspicious of how much time Pat has spent with
them and really knows about them.
If she thinks any of their issues are resolved, that's
ridiculous. I think that these guys are such
good liars and they're so used to pulling the wool over
people's eyes that they probably even pretend in therapy, and

(51:33):
we're going to find out some of them do.
Pat tells us that the family going to Sedona, she's concerned
for them because not everyone is as open starting over with a
new therapist. Oh, we're getting Nancy involved
here, throwing in a new therapist, and not everyone's
going to be as open to starting with her.

(51:54):
We go to Christine's house where Pat comes first, and it's
pretty cute because we've got little Truly on the bed and
Christine sitting on the edge ofthe bed and Pat's there and
they're catching up a little bitand Truly is excited to see
her, which makes me think perhaps they did therapy
sessions at the house. I don't know.
She knows. She seems to know the kids a

(52:15):
bit. And I noticed that Christine's
house is very sparse, and what there is in Christine's house is
some random furniture here and there and then small HomeGoods
signs and they don't even fit the wall.
They're way too small for the area that they're hung in.
Well, why buy one big sign that you can put on one wall when

(52:37):
you could buy six small ones and place them?
Randomly at different heights throughout your house.
Girl, I know. I think it's funny that you
think Pat knows Truly, because I noticed that Pat picked Truly
up and slammed her into the ground like a bouncy ball.
And I thought, wow, how violent Pat.
My goodness. After this abrupt truly slamming

(53:04):
we get to go to Sedona. We arrive in Sedona, AZ at
Spirit quest. We get to meet the Co founders
of Spirit Quest and and Catherine.
Oh, I missed their names. I was noting down male host, so

(53:25):
if I refer to Ed as male host, it's because I simply didn't
catch his name. It's the manliest man named
Everett, Ed. Ed.
Oh yeah, I have some Eds and it's definitely Ed.
Yeah. Now, before they arrive at
Sedona, Christine lets us know that she is nervous.
She's not looking forward to Sedona at all because she thinks
this might just open a can of worms.

(53:48):
And I thought, wow. In this interview done in the
future, Christine can really see the past through the lens of
the potential future by letting us know that a can of worms
could be opened on this trip. And if anyone's going to help
them with their opening of the can, it's male host, Ed.
Ed is in touch with himself. He's in touch with many parts of
himself, and he could be in touch with many parts of you

(54:09):
all. Kody describes Eddon Catherine
as cowboy hippies. His favorite word is hippie.
Oh God, he says hippie so many times.
In the But the peace sign that he throws up.
Everyone's a hippie, everyone's a hippie, things are hippie
ish, people are hippies, blah blah blah.
At some point throughout this episode, Christine says every
time you say hippie, we cringe.

(54:31):
We just cringe. We hate it.
Don't say hippie, Kody. Yes, he won't stop.
He's. All the time.
He does, he says hippie like 37 times in this episode.
Christine, I'm with you. I'm with you.
It's cringe worthy cowboy hippies on top of it.
No way. No way.
But to rest them assured and tells them, don't worry,

(54:55):
millions of people from many faiths around the world use
meditation to get in touch with themselves.
So while we venture out to the red rocks, another return to the
red Rocks, Don't be scared of the meditation.
Let it in. Let it touch you where you need
to be touched. Bed is about to lead this
meditation, and as it gets started, Kody starts feeling a

(55:15):
tickling on his thighs. And it's not Robyn's crusty
little fingers. It's ants.
Literal. Ants.
Ants are crawling all over the ground.
They show a close up. They're all sitting on yoga mats
that are tripled up, thirded, folded like towels under their

(55:38):
butts, and these ants are everywhere.
Kody loses it and says I can't meditate like this, I need to
move, I need to go somewhere else, can't get into my Zen
hippie mode. And it does crack me up because
I think Robyn is the one that points out that the ants start

(56:00):
moving in a single line towards Ed.
Yes. And they start climbing up Ed
and they're all over Ed during the meditation.
And he's totally sitting there like the monkey from Lion King,
just meditating totally in his own.
He's Ed. He's cool, calm and collected.

(56:21):
And you know, we hate to identify with Kody, but I would
never be able to meditate with bugs crawling on me.
Like what? No, we've got our Rafiki and
sitting there, Rafiki chilling like a little villain, and
everyone else is looking around except for Janelle.
Janelle is so grateful. She loves us.

(56:44):
She's the hippie dippie of the family.
She totally is. She tried to live in that teepee
once and she made it like 2 hours.
You know, forget about. That you know, she's very
earthy, just like the tree with the black leaves.
The Ant thing would send me. It would.
It would send me off the edge ofthose red rocks.
Yeah, for real. Ants are one of the grossest

(57:05):
things ever. When you see a clump of ants on
a sidewalk just on top of a piece of food or something.
No, it's like. The way they gather makes it
look like a surface is moving. It's just not right.
And I know it's not very Zen, it's not very Rafiki, but I
would not be able to sit there and let ants crawl on any parts
of my body and be oh so in touch with my aura and what's

(57:28):
happening? This is one of you guys I got
to, I got to tell you this. This is one of the many times I
agree with Kody during this episode.
One of the many times. I'm going to say it.
I thought you were going to say this is one of my biggest fears
because you like to say that a lot too.
There's been many times in the show where you're like, it's one
of my biggest fears. And I'm going, wow, you've got a

(57:48):
lot of biggest fears. Honestly probably one of my
biggest fears being covered in ants.
This is like your 17th biggest fear You're.
Going to get in the cringes so bad right now.
Now I'm like geeking. Oh my God, We've had ants come
into our house before and and it'll be like in the middle of
the house and you're just wondering where the fuck are
they coming from? If it's right here, if they're

(58:09):
coming in through here, through the wall.
Until we started doing this showtogether, honey, I had no idea
you were so full of fears. You got a lot of a lot of fears.
Biggest fears?
This is one of the things with my children.
I try not to ever react in front of them with my fears because
I don't want them to have my fears.
I'm like. Meh.
Stone faced. Don't let them see your fears

(58:29):
because you don't want them to get your fears, because that's
what happens. To live a life like you mom
living in fear. Thanks mom but this no way no
how. Kody, I agree with you.
This episode is disturbing for me on many levels.

(58:50):
I, I, I could go on and on. No, not right now, but I'm
agreeing with Kody. Hey.
You know, it pains. Listen, it pains me to do it
when I have to do it. It's painful.
This entire episode is going to be painful for me because it's
going to happen many times. It's one of your biggest fears.
This is relating to Kody Brown.
OH. No, I'm going to have nightmares
tonight. Oh, the phobia list continues.

(59:14):
They're all crawled on by bugs and they find their their
center, their ALM, their whatnot.
They all sit down with Nancy indoors and she gives them the
results of their personality tests that they took earlier.
And she starts with Meri. And I was very happy because she
tells Meri that she is an 8 and that she is a performer and

(59:38):
a reformer. And I was going, oh, I love that
We're going to get everybody'snumbers, which anneogram number
they are. We don't.
We only get married. We only get married.
Yep. So, you know, Meri is driven to
speak the truth. At times it may be brutal in its
delivery, but when she feels things, it's overwhelming.

(59:58):
And as Nancy is sharing this with Meri, she starts to get
emotional. It's easy to get emotional when
people are sharing things with you about your perceived self.
Yeah, she uses, Nancy, uses the word compulsion.
You have a compulsion to speak. Oh.
Which is very merry coded. I feel like Meri has a

(01:00:23):
compulsion for a lot of things. Wet bars.
Wet bars, speaking, telling her truth.
Standing over people telling them what to do.
Making sure that things are evenand centered, and that they
aren't tilted this way or that. Yeah, she's particular that.

(01:00:44):
Very particular Kody says that he sees these things, these
personality answers, as a way tolearn how to deal with his
wives. And he's highlighting to us that
he's trying to be empathetic and not managing his wives.

(01:01:05):
So managing is the word that he uses to describe the way he's
trying to approach this information about his lovely
wives. And Nancy points out that that
was a dismissive statement to make, especially because we were
just talking about Meri. And he's saying managing his
wives hot off the heels of discussing Meri's feelings.

(01:01:27):
Oh, God. And it's true.
He shouldn't be doing that. And we all know this, that the
way that he talks about his wives is dismissive.
So we caught an example, I guess.
And this gives Robyn an opportunity to enlighten us
further where she says that Nancy is aggressive.
And Janelle says, well, she doesn't think Nancy's

(01:01:47):
aggressive. She thinks Nancy's assertive.
Yeah, Janelle would switch up that wording.
Nancy says that Kody needs to bemore empathetic, not to use this
information to manage his wives, but to be more empathetic
with his wives, to understand how they're feeling, not how to

(01:02:09):
use it to manipulate essentially and.
Right. Yeah, while we're getting these
couch moments, when they're reflecting on their time with
Nancy, we have Meri on the far left and then Robyn, Kody in the
middle, and then Christine andJanelle.
And I'm only pointing this out because it seems like we do get

(01:02:29):
these scenarios often where Robyn is, maybe not often, but
it stands out to me where Robyn is next to Kody.
It's like Kody's in the middle and then you got Robyn and then
Meri on the other side, which Ifeel is very Speaking of their
relationship, telling of what weknow about them and this.
Yeah. And then we have Christine on
the other side and Janelle, which, you know, I don't really

(01:02:51):
know. I don't really read into that
too much. You could switch Christine and
Janelle, but the fact that Robynis next to him and then Meri's
on the other side of Robyn speaks volumes.
Robyn is being super defensive of Kody and Robyn says they all
need to be invested in their relationships with each other
too, not just their relationshipwith Kody.

(01:03:12):
And I'm making that sound super intelligent because I had to
decipher what she was saying. She didn't just come out and say
that. And Robyn says that they are
lazy in their relationships emotionally with each other.
And as she is saying this on thecouch, I noticed that Meri and
Robyn are mirroring each other. They have their legs in the

(01:03:37):
exact same position. They're wearing jeans that could
be twins. They're wearing short sleeve
shirts over long sleeve tops that could be twins.
And they're mirroring each other's sitting position
exactly. So it's Meri, Rob and Kody on
the couch, and Robyn is speakingand Meri's nodding her head and

(01:04:03):
they're twinning. Yeah, they are twinning.
It's super creepy and I want to know who is mimicking who.
Is Meri mimicking Robyn because she wants to be in a favor with
Kody and close to Robyn. This is a tale as old as time

(01:04:25):
tactic right? Like if you are in a meeting
with your boss and your boss is sitting with their arms crossed,
you should sit with their armscrossed too.
If your boss has an open body posture and has their hands on
their knees, you should do that too.
You need to be relatable, and tobe relatable, you would mirror
posture. OK, so it's really telling and

(01:04:47):
odd to me that somebody is mirroring somebody.
And I believe that Meri is mirroring Robyn.
Yeah, and the baseline, as you know, just some typical man,
just some idiot here, Meri picksup on Robyn getting approval
from Kody and being in Kody's good graces.
And so adapting that and puttingit on herself would make sense.

(01:05:10):
Oh, God.
And while this was happening, you asked if I was noticing what
you were noticing. And I didn't know what you were
noticing. I didn't pick up on that.
So I even said, oh, well, I don't know.
And then as I was looking, I noticed that Robyn has French
tip toenails. And the French tip toenails were
like ice white. And I go, Oh my gosh, those
French tips are white. So I thought that's what you
were talking about. I didn't quite pick up on the

(01:05:33):
exact same way that they were sitting and that they were
basically wearing the same clothes with different colored
shirts. I wanted you to see it because
it was creepy. It was Stepford wives ish.
It was odd and I'm not sure if it's Meri trying to gain favor
with Kody or Meri trying to gain favor with Robyn.

(01:05:53):
Oh, sure. OK.
Or vice versa. Yeah, there are so many
dichotomies here. I could see either one.
I could see it being both. You know, two birds, one stone.
I could too. Two Well, there's another bird
tie in for Robyn. The shirts they're wearing over
their long sleeves are Affliction ish type shirts with
see through parts T-shirts that have scattered like scratch

(01:06:19):
looking marks on them like Affliction with see through ish
parts. And it's of the time, very of
the time, something I would have worn but without the long
sleeve under it and a bra showing on purpose or some
bullshit. Speaking of trying to look like
people, Colleen. Anyway, Nancy asks if in order

(01:06:39):
for things to work for their family, do they need to work on
their authentic communications with each other?
Well, I wonder if that's what they need to do, Nancy.
You know, do they need significant improvement on their
relationships? Oh, I wonder if they do.
What a great question. Should they be not just polite
and coexisting? Coexisting.

(01:07:00):
Now we do know that this is true, that they do need
significant improvements on their relationships and in
communications, and being authentic but polite and
coexisting was quite a significant statement, I
thought. And, you know, they basically
are coexisting. And Janelle says something here.
Oh my gosh, Janelle bringing it

(01:07:21):
home. Janelle says she's at a point
where she is happy being separate.
She's there. She just doesn't feel that
invested. She's there with the family.
She is coexisting. As Nancy said, she doesn't feel
that invested. She doesn't feel the need to put

(01:07:42):
more of her time and energy into not being separate.
She's happy being separate. Which aligns with her vibe
overall that we've had from basically the beginning of the
show. But she is saying this out loud
in a session with a therapist where they're getting to know
each other, and it's quite telling.
I mean, she's being honest. She's in front of everyone when

(01:08:02):
she says this. Yeah, she's also.
Saying in front of the people she's coexisting with her sister
wives and her husband. Yeah, this might be one of the
first times they do pin it as a shocking moment.
Yeah, yeah. It's not shocking.
We all know it, We all see it, we've all felt it.
They're pretending to be shocked because it's the first time
someone's actually said it out loud, probably.

(01:08:23):
OK, Yeah, yeah. And then they decide to go on a
walk. Oh, this show is so TLC.
It is so TLC. Dropping the bomb.
Can you believe it? We're going to go on a walk.
Why is Kody happy to go on a walk?
I don't know why is Kody happy to go on a walk because he's
feels like he's doing all the heavy lifting emotionally.

(01:08:46):
When I have expressed myself and divulged the most inner,
deepest, darkest shaved regions of myself, then I want to go on
a walk. You're manscaping again.
Oh, you know, I haven't stopped manscaping.
I let it go a little bit last week.
And then I thought, Chris, you never know.
You never know. You never know when Kimber's
going to walk into the bathroom on you again.

(01:09:08):
You better take care. Of it and startle me.
Kody says that he is relieved to be on this walk because it's
like he is doing all the heavy lifting all the time.
Emotionally, I don't really have the stomach for it.
Hey, you know, someone might think I have the stomach to
manage for women, and I'm going to say that out loud, manage

(01:09:31):
for women, but it's all just fat.
The tummy itself is actually really small, so I wouldn't be
able to do it either. I'd need to go on a walk, and
hopefully this walk would lead us to a place on the red rocks
where we could take photos in the wind, the blowing wind.
It was quite blustery. I was distracted because their
hair was all flying everywhere. And they're like, let's take
pictures. And it looked like, Oh my God,

(01:09:52):
you look like you're going to get blown off the side of the
mountain. They're all taking pictures,
they're posing for pictures and we get Robyn, we get Meri, we
get Christine posing for a picture together, being all
cutesy tootsy. No, Janelle.
No, not at first, because the three wives decide to descend on

(01:10:14):
the other wife and force her to take a picture.
And Janelle crouches down in front and they take a picture
with Janelle and it's all he he he he ha ha ha ha.
And then Nancy says that she thinks that this is the first
time that she has seen the wivestruly connect.

(01:10:35):
Forced photography connects us all.
Well, I think it's funny becauseby the end of this little
montage of them taking photos, Ithought that they did look like
they were genuinely having a good time taking these pictures.
Now, is that because I live in
denial and I'm delusional? Probably, but there's something

(01:10:56):
about a staged photo where everyone looks happy that makes
me buy into it. I actually thought it was cute
that Janelle was taking the photo, didn't want to be a part
of it, and then they forced her to.
Yeah, it was cute. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't write a
book about it, but I wasn't also going, Oh my God, this is
terrible. I thought it was all right.
I wasn't scared that one of them was going to shove the other

(01:11:18):
one off of the red rocks, so. That's a good sign.
Janelle was wearing a red shirt.
Yes, she was wearing a shirt andit was red.
She always wears these solid colored shirts that are like.
They're either priMeri or like 1shade off.
I'm just saying she. Was wearing a bright red shirt

(01:11:39):
on the top of the red rocks. Sorry, I know.
No, if it isn't bright red, it'sbright blue.
Or it's black and it's shiny. It's usually purple, shiny,
black, shiny. A lot of shine.
Oh God, well I'm sorry. Luckily, through this experience
we get to learn more from Nancy.
Nancy talks about how she's glad that Pat was there for their

(01:12:00):
first session because it really helped her to get to know the
family. She got to ease in there.
Pat was the Lube of introducing Nancy to this polygamist
family. She.
Eased her into the situation. That's just the tip.
And as we say goodbye to Pat, itfeels like a good time to say
goodbye to you. Goodbye.
This is our second episode in a row where we're going to have to

(01:12:26):
do a 2 parter because it has just been so much we couldn't
fit it all in. Too much.
Too much, too much of a good thing here on my Sister Wives
podcast. So come back on Thursday.
Part 2 will be dropping here. TTFN Tata for now.