From Taliban's Grip to Empowering Afghan Voices: A Courageous Path to Change | Ft. Muzhda Akbari Ep. 061 - My Thick Accent

Episode Transcript
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Gurasis (00:00):
So, before I introduce my guest today, I would like to
give you a little bit of historylesson of what we are actually
getting into today.
So Taliban is an Islamicfundamentalist group emerged in
the early 1990s, which swiftlyrose to power in 1996 in
Afghanistan, imposing a strictform of Sunni Islam.
They enforced severepunishments and curbed freedoms.

(00:22):
Following the 9-11 attacks, theUS-led coalition expelled the
Taliban in 2001 and in thesubsequent years saw a
resurgence marked by targetedassassinations and territorial
gains.
And in 2020, a peace deal withthe US paved the way for the
return to power in 2021.
The rapid takeover ofAfghanistan led to widespread

(00:44):
displacement and uncertaintyaffecting millions.
The Taliban's promises aboutrights and governance are
uncertain.
The world hasn't accepted theirrule and the situation in
Afghanistan is still uncertain,especially for things like
women's work and education.
And my guest today emerged fromthe intricate tapestry of her

(01:06):
homeland, afghanistan, a beaconof resilience and hope, found
herself amidst of the Taliban'stakeover, a quickie shift that
would shape her journey.
Growing up amidst thecomplexities of war, like any
child dreamt of a future paintedwith endless possibilities.
In the corridors of herimagination, she envisioned

(01:26):
herself as a doctor, or even thepresident, a leader who would
transform Afghanistan into ahaven free from pain and
suffering.
However, the harsh realities ofbeing an Afghan girl unfolded
before her eyes and theconstraints placed upon her
peers became starkly apparent.
Her dreams collided with theharsh truths of forced marriages

(01:47):
, an experience that wouldignite her resolved to challenge
the limitations imposed onAfghan girls.
Her vision transcended personalaspirations.
It became a mission toeradicate the shadows that
dimmed the hopes of every childin her homeland.
Forced to confront theencroaching war in 2007, her
family, along with many others,sought refuge in Kabul, a city,

(02:10):
a juxtaposition of opportunityand fear became a battleground
for survival.
Yet, amidst these struggles,she found slays in education,
navigating a space where boysand girls studied together,
breaking barriers and nurturingher courage.
The fateful day of August 15,2021 marked the shattering of
her hopes and dreams.
As the Taliban reclaimedAfghanistan, the sun of optimism

(02:34):
set, but she defused to let herspirit break In the face of
oppression.
She sees education as a potentweapon, a tool to resist and
defy the attempts to silenceAfghan girls.
Today, she stands as a symbolof unwavering courage.
Founder of Code GreenAfghanistan, bridging worlds and
amplifying the ideas of Afghancults.

(02:54):
Recognized for her efforts indigital innovation, she
exemplifies the spirit thatrefuses to be extinguished.
Join us as we delve into herextraordinary journey, where
courage meets domination andwhere the power of accessible
education becomes a beacon forchange.
Please welcome Mushtaq Akbari.

Muzhda (03:15):
Thank you so much for such a great introduction, and I
would like to also takeopportunity and send my warm
hi's and hello's greeting toeveryone who are watching us or
listening to us, and also thankyou so much for giving me an
opportunity to be part of youramazing work, your podcast, and
I once again thank you so muchfor that amazing introduction.

Gurasis (03:38):
Absolutely, Muzhda.
It's a pleasure to have you andI feel like people like you
needed to be highlighted.
And I am actually honored tohave you on the podcast.
You being just a 17, 18 yearold and making that indelible
mark in this Canadian landscapeor just in this world, I could
not skip talking to you andletting my listeners know about

(03:58):
you as well.
So welcome to the podcast.

Muzhda (04:02):
Thank you.

Gurasis (04:03):
Okay so before we dive deeper into all that I have said
, I just want to start a littlebit on the lighter note and
since in my season two of thepodcast I am trying to turn up
the fun factor a little bit, Iwant to start with some fun
questions.
Okay, so tell us what is yourgo to breakfast?

Muzhda (04:23):
Oh my gosh, this is is actually.
We are part of the northeast ofafghanistan, so it's called
badash, and in badashan we havethis special type of tea we call
it sure chai which is made upof like milk and salt.
It is like it sounds weird, butit is so delicious I love it.
So, like every morning it is mygo breakfast.

(04:46):
Like every morning I have it.
It works like coffee, but it'smuch delicious.

Gurasis (04:52):
Okay, it's not weird to me because we also have
something called the masala chai, and masala itself means like
spice and all sorts of likespices mixed together, and so I
know what you're saying, likethis milkshake of salt and
sweetness in it, but do you justeat it like, drink it just like
that, or with something, youeat something along with it?

Muzhda (05:13):
Yeah, and just as you say, like so we have different
types of it and then, likesometimes, when it's like a
special day, we put some nuts init.
We have some like cream in it,and then we sometimes cook some
cookies.
It's also a salty cookies andthen we eat with that.
So it has like different forms,but the initial one, like the

(05:33):
default version of it, is justlike tea.
We just yeah, just like coffee.

Gurasis (05:39):
Okay, perfect.
So my next question is share afavorite song or a dialogue or a
movie and tell us why it'ssignificant to you wow, it's a
hard question because, like, um,I'm also like someone.

Muzhda (05:56):
I love music.
It is like a big part of ourculture too, and mostly, like, I
listen to persian or eitherlike farsi songs.
So sometimes other people, likein other countries, ask me,
like, who is your favoritesinger?
Like I say, okay, I have tothink which one in here because,
like, I love our songs better.

(06:16):
But then, apart from that, okay, which one is hard to choose.
I think I would choose one book.
There's one book called theAlchemist, if you have heard it
oh my gosh, it literally changedmy life because I remember when
I was in Afghanistan.
Of course, navigating with whatis happening it was hard, but

(06:42):
when I found this book it kindof changed my perspective
towards life.
And then the fact that you knowwhatever you go through is kind
of changed my perspectivetowards life, and then the fact
that you know whatever you gothrough is kind of a lesson, and
all of these things will givehands together so they can reach
you to the studio of your lifeso I love this book and I read
it in one day.
It was my first time to read abook in a day and I've been
reading it like most of the time.
I think I've read it four times.

(07:03):
So I love this book and it kindof changed my life.

Gurasis (07:06):
No, it indeed is an amazing book.
I have read that as well.
But coming back to the question, you don't have to anglicize
your likings, right?
And I'm telling you thatbecause I remember in my class,
when I came to Canada, peoplewould say, oh, we were actually
asked to make like apresentation of our favorite
bands or like a favorite starsor whatever, and mine I had no

(07:30):
like, literally, I had like norecognition of whatever they
were talking about.
So I actually end up sharingwhatever I liked from India.
You know the songs I listenedto India.
So I'll ask you the same thingagain you can share any
particular song, movie, whateveryou listen to.
Share with us that.

Muzhda (07:49):
Yeah, so okay.
Then there is one song.
It's a Pamiri song.
It also comes from our area,which is the northeast area of
Afghanistan.
So this Pamiri song is a very,very old song.
It's like a traditional songthat, uh, each generation pass
it and then it has a differentversion of it and then I like,

(08:09):
maybe like once or twice a week,I just listen to it and keep
dancing.
I love this song.
So it is very folk.
Like they have, we have our ownmusical instruments used in it
so I really love that song.

Gurasis (08:22):
It's like a pamiri version of song okay, and is it
like found on spotify or like inyoutube?
Where can one find it if theywant to listen?

Muzhda (08:30):
I think it will be in spotify and mainly in youtube,
because I listen it in youtube.

Gurasis (08:35):
Okay, and then I will share the name of it, but it's
like a palmiri music okay, I'llput the link to that in the show
notes for anybody who'sinterested.
For sure, okay, awesome.
So tell us, if you had to teachone phrase in your mother
tongue, what would it be andwhat does it mean?

Muzhda (08:55):
Yeah, one phrase Okay.
So in Afghanistan we say itmeans thank you, and I really
love this phrase, I know like.
So we mostly like change itdifferent ways.

(09:17):
Like it has different versionsregarding to a person.
Sometimes, when they are, like,mainly formal, we use different
version of it but like it meanslike you, and I love this
phrase love that.

Gurasis (09:30):
That's awesome, okay.
So, lastly, if you couldteleport back to a particular
place from your home country fora day, where would it be and
what would you do?

Muzhda (09:45):
yeah, I think again, like you know, mostly I
mentioned I, although I grew uplike kind of, uh, some most of
my life not most of my life,part of my life in kabul I love
kabul.
But my favorite place inafghanistan is my northeast area
of afghan Badakhshan, the placeI grew up in a village it's

(10:06):
like a village for 11 years ofmy life and I think that vibe
that I grew up there was justlike movies like those old
movies and like whenever I talkwith a friend here who don't
know anything about Afghanistan,I say you know, whenever peace
came to Afghanistan, I will takeyou to Badakhshan, or come to
Badakhshan so I will show youknow.
Whenever peace came toAfghanistan, I will take you to
Badashan or come to Badashan.
So I will show you everything.

(10:27):
Because that part of the world,like in Badashan, it's totally
different to any other part ofthe world.
The culture is different, thelanguage is different, people
are different.
So yeah, whenever hopefullypeace came, I will maybe take
you there I will invite you tocome, you, and then show you
around everything.
Yeah, I love that okay, awesome, love that.

Gurasis (10:50):
Okay.
So, since we're talking aboutAfghanistan, talking about, you
know, uh, badakhshan, that's howyou say it.
How do you say that?
Yeah yeah, so he was talkingabout that.
Tell us a little bit more aboutyour childhood and a little bit
about your growing up yearsyeah, thank you so much for this
question.

Muzhda (11:06):
So yeah, I was, uh, I was born and raised in badashan
province.
So badashan province is anortheast area of afghanistan.
It's a mostly like the placethat I was born.
It's like very kind of, youknow, isolated part where we
rarely had access to electricity.
We, I don't know like, do wehad access to internet?

(11:29):
No, we didn't, but, like, evenlike, tv was a luxury thing I
think the sun families had.
So I was, I was born there andraised there for like 11 years
of my life.
And I was, I was raised by mygrandparents, like not my
parents, so I was with mygrandparents.
It was, um, it was a greatexperience.
As I told you that, the lifethere was very different.

(11:52):
We had, um, we had a verynatural life, I would say.
I love that um way of my lifeand that face of my life.
And then I was.
I was also going to schoolthere.
Our school was a little bitstrict.
Okay, our teachers were like,just like any, I think our
afghani teachers and indianteachers have already similar

(12:13):
yeah, so I was like studyingthere and then unfortunately
wars came and then wars tookplace in afghanistan.
Then we had to leave thatvillage to the city in Padashan
which was the name was Faizabad,and then my family, we spent
four years in Faizabad and thenwe changed the place, we went to

(12:36):
Kabul and then we didn't spendthat much of time in Kabul, like
maybe around three years inKabul which unfortunately again
war took place and then we hadto leave it.
So we will maybe later on talkabout it more.
But basically, yeah, the placethat I was born and raised was
Padakhshan city and I reallycherish all the memories that I
have made there, the people Ihave made there.

(12:59):
And I think, as I said, it islike that home feel like
whenever I hear the name ofBadakhshan, I feel like home.
So yeah, hopefully peace willcome.
Maybe one day I will go thereback.

Gurasis (13:10):
Hopefully, hopefully, but tell us something, mushtaq,
that people might not know aboutAfghanistan, that you would
like to share.

Muzhda (13:19):
Yeah, so when we talk about Afghanistan, I think the
immediate picture that comes tothe mind is some desert.

Gurasis (13:27):
Yeah.

Muzhda (13:28):
And then, like you, just there is war and then people
are killing each other.
There's like blood andeverything.
And I don't want to deny thefact that, yeah, we do have
conflicts, we do have wars, andthere are people, a lot of
people, suffering, but then abig part of who we are is our
culture.
A big part of who we are is thebeauties that we have, we had

(13:49):
around us afghanistan.
At the same time, it is like itis a very green country, like
the place I came is so muchgreenery.
We have beautiful rivers,beautiful weather.
The culture is very richculture.
We have different languages.
For example, I speak farsi orpersian and then my friends in
padashan, some of them, werespeaking sharnani, which is a

(14:12):
totally different language andpashto is also spoken, I believe
yeah, even some people speakurdu or hindi and some people
speak arabic.
So we have, like, differentcultures, different diversity.
Even we have people from evenother beliefs, like we have Sikh
people in Afghanistan, wherethey were Muslim, were our

(14:32):
neighbors.
So like different cultures inAfghanistan and I think most of
people don't know that yeahpeople think Afghanistan is just
one group of people, onebackground and one picture but,
I would say that, no, when yougo deep, like when you read more
about afghanistan, when youexplore it more in a different
perspective, you will comeacross the fact that there is so

(14:54):
much more about afghanistan.
And even there was one youtuber, very famous youtuber.
His name is, I think, andrew.
He said that his favoritecountry is Afghanistan.
Oh, wow so yeah, he's a veryfamous like travel writer so he
kind of, like you know, stumpedon the things that I said.
Yeah.

Gurasis (15:17):
No, I'm sure, like these kind of insights are
something which anybody who haslived there can share.
You know, we all see like anoverview image or sometimes
whatever is fed to us by media.
Sometimes, you know, we justsee that we don't really know
what is actually inside.
So thank you for sharing that.
I'm sure people are gonna enjoythis.
Um, so now, mishla, like I haveseen that of course we will get
into deeper, into more work thatyou do, but throughout you know

(15:39):
my previous conversation alsoand the conversation that I have
heard you and you know knowsome offline as well.
We met in Toronto at an eventand now, like in even our
previous conversation that wehad, you have, you have
mentioned many times you knowyour mother, like your family,
at times where and I feel likeit correct me if I'm wrong would
you say that your mother hasbeen your source of inspiration

(16:03):
or the source of encouragement.
I wanted to talk a little bitmore about that, because I'm
sure there is some sort offamily support that led you to
do the things that you do.

Muzhda (16:13):
but talk a little bit more about that yeah, oh, thank
you so much for this beautifulquestion and point that you
brought.
I think for me in my life thatone person that whenever I think
is my mom.
She's been someone that because, like you know, growing up in
Afghanistan and having threedaughters in a row, and then you

(16:36):
know, like people, there was alot of stereotypes around having
three daughters in a room andthen not being able to give
birth to a boy.
So I have seen my mom how muchshe suffered from the fact that
people around us were pointingout my mom, that why you don't
have a boy why, you'd have alldaughters who will take care of
your future like life, who willtake care of the wealth of your

(16:59):
like husband and all thosethings.
So then, like a lot of this typeof conversation that even as a
kid I was listening to them,like I would see there was a
guest who would come and then mymom would spend three hours
cooking, cleaning to make hisfood, and then that guest would
come and sit in a conversationand then find out, my mom, that

(17:20):
why you don't have a boy, andthen, like talking about things
that I was like like okay, whoare you to talk about these
things, these are none of yourbusiness.
But then they would allowthemselves, like everyone would
allow themselves, to put afinger on my mom and then me
seeing all those things andseeing that still my mom was a
strong and not giving up and nottake thinking like not seeing

(17:43):
as less valuable.
That gives me courage, thatkind of built.
And I see that over like aslife went by and I saw times
that you know when I would dosomething good at school and I
would tell my mom, mom, I didthis at school, and then she
would be so proud and so happyshe would post my marks in her
facebook.
She would like post my marks inher Facebook, she would like

(18:04):
post my drawings in her Facebook, and I saw that how these
things were making her likehappier.
So you know, that gave me a hopethat, okay, I will do the best
to prove everyone who told mymom that you have a daughter so
you are less valuable, provethem wrong that you know having
a daughter is not a shame.
It should be something that oneday he at me and they say like I

(18:26):
wish she was my daughter.
So, that being said, like youknow my mom, she has been the
most courageous woman andbravest woman I know in my life,
and even others, being sostrong, being supportive,
supportive of us, pushing us inevery step that go try this
thing, go try that thing.
As I told you you, you know shewould push me, go speak in

(18:48):
front of like hundreds of peopleand I was saying, mom, I don't
want to do it, and then shewould say, you know you can do
it, go do it.
So you know, all these thingskind of inspired me, seeing my
mom and all those things, but atthe same time, as I mentioned,
she is the source of myinspiration to anything that I
do, because I want to make herproud and towards making her

(19:08):
proud, I want to make all otherwomen feel that they are not
less valuable just because theyare women or 100.

Gurasis (19:16):
Yes, you know, there is a saying in uh panjabi.
You know we say that, whichmeans which basically translates
to they are lucky, who areblessed with the baby girl in
their houses, you know, uh.
So I think this, this is alsosomething very close to me,
because I have two sisters andthey are like decade older than

(19:36):
me and this was the conversationduring their growing up years
as well, you know, talking to mymother like why there's not son
, and then finally I was bornand and all those conversations
I've heard growing up here andthere as well.
But coming back to you again, Ithink that would be a great
segue to something else that youhave mentioned that your
courage is your weapon, and youmentioned to me that it's not

(19:58):
just a statement to you, it's aliving experience for you where
your family and you were likesandwiched between Taliban and
the government, and you neededthat courage to live in such
sort of environment and get upevery day and go to school the
next day, right.
So talk a little bit more aboutthat and educate us about the

(20:19):
time, all that you were goingthrough, including like your
high school, and going, and youknow, because the things were
pretty strict for girls even topursue education in that part of
the country.
So tell us about that.

Muzhda (20:33):
Yeah, exactly so I think when you are in an environment
where fear and terror and war isa big part of that environment,
the life becomes verychallenging.
Everything becomes challenging.
Even life for men becomechallenging, let alone like
women, how much they suffer.
So I grew up in thatenvironment where war was a big

(20:55):
part of my life.
In every conversation there wasa bigger like view of war than
any other thing.
So even like when we had dinner, when we had breakfast, like 80
percent of our talks were aboutwar, were about politics what
would happen tomorrow, whathappened yesterday, what
happened today regarding to bombblasts, regarding to gun and

(21:17):
everything.
So fear was a big part of us.
And then at the beginning, likewhen I was in Badakhshan, life
was kind of peaceful because wedidn't have bomb blasts in
Badakhshan.
But when we came to Kabul,things changed because right now
, life was not guaranteed.
You could not hide in a placelike you could not hide at home.

(21:39):
You had to live your life, butthat unfortunately meant risking
your life, because I rememberthat one day I was going to the
school with my sisters, so thiswas our car, very close to the
school, and then a traffichappened, so we were like we
were stuck, we were in the roadand then five minutes later, a
bomb blast took place which was,like, I think, very close to us

(22:02):
, like close to school, and thenin that one blast five students
from our school died.
They were killed and then, ifthat traffic was not happening
there, if that traffic did notlock the the route, we would be
oh my god so you know, justimagine that this, that was our

(22:23):
normal life, that was somethingthat we had to deal every
morning.
And guess what happened Tomorrowmorning we had to go back to
that classroom.
We had to sit and I remember Iwas in my classroom and then
that window that was like rightclose to me, it was all broken
and I could see outside becauseof the bomb blast that windows
were broken.

(22:43):
So that was a part of life andthen we had to deal with it.
So kind of fear became a bigpart that you know you couldn't
be terrified, you couldn't bescared, because otherwise you
couldn't leave.
So but then still it doesn'tmean that that make you strong
in a way that also make you so.
So you know to cherish everymoment of life.

(23:05):
Because whenever I used to goto the school I would look at my
mom and the hardest part of theday in life was saying goodbye
to mom and then going back toschool, like because I didn't
know when I come back what wouldhappen at home, what would
happen here and there.
So that was like so hard sayingeven goodbye here and there.

(23:27):
So that was like so hard sayingeven goodbye.
But then, as we talk about thecourage, courage should be like
courage was that, that powerthat would, you know, move us
forward.
Because, like taking thecourage to say goodbye, taking
the courage to not cry, takingthe courage that after a bomb
blast going back to the school,taking the courage after the
death of, maybe a classmate, youhad to be in that classroom and

(23:50):
try to forget what happened,all of those things like, wanted
courage not just from me, butfrom every single person.
So even if you're like just theweakest person in the room, you
had to be courageous, becauseif you weren't courageous it
means courage would let you down.
So I think, courage with thehope was two things that kind of

(24:10):
you know keep push us forwardto live our lives.
So you know, as I told you, itwas like a very different
experience that, the fact thatyou know everything would happen
, but then tomorrow you had tostart refresh.

Gurasis (24:22):
It was just like a game with like ultimate life, you
know coming back and coming back, yeah oh my god, this is making
me quite, uh, speechless,because I can't even imagine
what would be going in the mindsof a teenager who is having a
fear of even going to school.

(24:43):
Not because he or she is afraidof the education or the marks of
the teachers.
They are in the fair of theirlife.
I mean, the people of that ageor I would say like students of
that age are usually worriedabout their studies.
They are stressed about theexams.
You know, maybe they arestressed about the acne that

(25:05):
they had, you know the pimplesthat they're having on their
faces, or maybe they're crushedand reply them back or something
like that.
And and you were simplystressed about just your life,
like whether you don't even knowwhether you'll be coming back
to your parents or not.
Um, I I mean, there's nothingelse that I can say that can

(25:28):
justify in any way, obviouslybut tell me, didn't you at any
moment feel like mushta, notgoing to school and just staying
with your parents whole timeand just not pursue the
education?

Muzhda (25:41):
yeah.
So in my family, like I am themost emotional one, like I used
to like be very attached to mymother, like I love my mom, as I
said before.
So there would be likesometimes that when I was
sitting in the classroom and Iwould miss my mom so much that I
was like all thinking about mymom, and then the teacher was
like just teaching, becausethere was a time that my mom

(26:04):
started university again.
She wanted to, you know, topursue pharmacy and she wanted
to become a doctor, and thenknowing that my mom is going
outside too was like just makingme terrified.
Like whenever a bomb blastsplace, now it wasn't just me I
was like asking oh my, happenedthere.
So like it was a very scarymoment.

(26:26):
So during that time I hatedschool.
To be honest, as I said, I lovemy studies, I love the fact
that I was able to haveopportunity to learn, but then,
dealing with all other emotionsapart from studying, I just
didn't love school.
I just wanted to stay with mymom and then be there because,

(26:47):
as I said, I was veryemotionally attached to my mom.
That kind of like whenever likegoing was going to school was a
struggle for over like 11 yearsof course I, I'm sure about
that.

Gurasis (27:07):
So, mushtaq, remember.
You also shared this.
Another anecdote with me, where, in a class where you guys,
there were like 50 boys and just4 girls in a classroom and you
told me that your mom said thatyou have to be Mushtaq, the
ambassador of those girls andyou have to stand up and show
that you have a voice.
Tell us when you did that, whathappened.

Muzhda (27:29):
Yeah, thank you so much.
I think you know, inAfghanistan there was one very
competitive course.
It was an English classroom.
So in that English classroomthere were students from
different backgrounds.
We had like teenagers, we had amaster degree holders, we had
like teachers from university,like different people from

(27:52):
different parts of like academia, basically, yeah, when I went
there so my mom enrolled us inthat course because she heard,
okay, that's a very good course,and my sister and I we were
very like we were the youngestamong all other students, so
because we were, I think, gradeeight or nine, yeah around that.
So when we entered to theclassroom I just saw that there

(28:16):
are 50 boys and there's fourgirls.
It was me, my sister and thentwo other girls and then all the
classroom are boys and then.
So I used to go to the girls'school.
I mean, I never been exposed toa place where there was so much
man and there was so much voice.
So it was like kind of veryterrifying.

(28:36):
At the beginning even I wasscared to like read a word or do
solve a question, or when my,my teacher would ask something,
I was terrified to raise my hand.
But then gradually we hadconversation about the school to
about the course with my mom.
And my mom said you know what,like you, shouldn't be afraid.
You know, we always had thisconversation about how can we,

(29:00):
as a girl, prove that we arecapable of serving things?
So my mom said you know whatthat place is?
A place that you have to provebecause in your class you don't
have any any boy to prove.
But in that classroom then Iused to, like you know, work so
hard and then practiceeverything in advance, and then
when I'm in the classroom andthe teacher asked anything, I

(29:21):
would raise my hand.
But then in during the week, onthursdays or maybe fridays on
thursdays, fridays, we had allof this in afghanistan.
So on Thursdays we had to comeup with a topic.
And then we have to present itin front of all the class Every
Thursday, and then during thatday you had the chance to either

(29:43):
sit in your chair and just readit, or you had the chance to
stand up in front of the classand then present it.
So in case of our class, themajority of the ones who used to
stand up were boys.
There were no girls who wouldstand up and then present their
topic in front of all boys.
So there was one day I spentone week preparing for this one

(30:07):
topic that this time I willstand up.
And I was terrified the wholeweek.
So then it was a time and thenthe teacher said, okay, it's
your time, which that?
And I just didn't sit and Istand up.
And then the teacher said, ohgood, you stand up.
And then all the class was gone.
So then I stand up and I readmy topic.

(30:28):
And I didn't read my topic, Imemorized, memorized my topic.
So I just put the paper andthen just me and then talking,
and the whole class was sosilent and then my voice was so
loud.
I have naturally like this loudvoice.
So then my voice was so loudand even there were boys coming
from other classrooms and seeingwhat is happening, because it

(30:50):
was the first time, like like myhands are like this and I
memorized everything.
And then my teacher said wow,and then he said to my
classmates that learn from herand that kind of inspired me to
do that next time and then myteacher was doing the same.
Then the other girls wereinspired and then after two
weeks there were no boysstanding up, all the topics were

(31:13):
just girls, and it was a veryfunny thing and even my teacher
used to tell our story to otherclasses that you know, this
thing happened in our class,that everything shifted from
boys standing up to girlsstanding up.
So in that experience I reallylearned valuable lessons, for
example, my confidence rise thefact that you know I am valuable

(31:36):
if I work hard.
If I put the work, I can beatboys, I can be the best in the
class, I can have the courage tostand up, I can have the
courage to memorize the stuff.
And it is not my age limitingme.
It's not my gender that willlimit me.
It's not the fact that who I amwill limit me if I put the work

(31:56):
.
I can do whatever I want to do.
So that taught me this lessonand then after that, like in
every class that I had, I waslike just standing up you know,
I am not, you know, I found Ilearned a lesson.
So, yeah, that was a veryvaluable experience for me.

Gurasis (32:12):
Well, I think you said it all, but definitely you paved
the way for the other girls anddefinitely created history in
that setting.
You know, your professor saidfor the first time you were
there, so loved it, loved it,awesome.
But that's not where youstopped.
You continue to do amazingthings and still doing it today.
We definitely dive deeper intothat, but I just want to take
you back to the moment of august15, 2021.

(32:35):
You know when, literally,taliban took over afghanistan.
In that time and you havewitnessed it firsthand tell us
where were you and what thefuture seemed to you in that
particular moment it was a verysummer day of couple, a very hot
day.

Muzhda (32:53):
So we used to live in one room together with my
sisters.
But then, like, because of youknow, being with three sister
means a lot of talking, a lot ofconversation.
So I changed my room to alittle balcony that I used to
collect everything and decor itwith my books and everything.
So I was sitting in that uhbalcony, my books and everything
.
So I was sitting in thatbalcony and then right in front

(33:14):
of me there was like stickynotes.
I put them there and I drewsome stuff.
I exactly remember in one of mysticky notes I have written
never give up.
And another one was believe inyourself.

Gurasis (33:30):
In another one.

Muzhda (33:30):
I wrote the word hope and then colored it because I
just love those sticky notes andthey were like right in front
of me and just like those stickynotes and they were like right
fan of me and just like thosesticky notes, I wasn't giving up
the fact that during that lastweek everything was so hard
because province after provincewere falling and Taliban would
take control of those provinces.
So Kabul was the only provincethat Taliban didn't have control

(33:53):
over it.
And even during that time I wasso hopeful because, you know, I
said to myself we have been inwar for 40 years.
How is it possible that Talibantook Afghanistan once again?
Like I wasn't allowing myselfto believe that Taliban would
take Kabul and this is at theend of the story.
Like I didn't, I refuse tobelieve in that.

(34:16):
So I was very hopeful, andsuddenly someone started
knocking the door and it was anormal knock oh.
I knew that, okay, no one knockour door like that.
So I rushed up to the doorbecause my balcony was very
close to the entry door.
I opened and I found my uncle.
He's very like, breathless, andtelling me where's your mom,
where's your mom, where's yourmom?
I said what happened and hesaid Taliban are here, taliban

(34:37):
took Kabul and then we have toleave Because during that time
my dad, he was in India becauseof some medical conditions that
he had.
So it was just us, my mom, threedaughters, and then, like, we
were just in one room, in onehouse, and then all by ourselves
.
And then my family had somepolitical background.
They were part of thegovernment, working with

(34:59):
government.
My grandma, she was an activist, so we were in the risk even
before the Taliban.
So my uncle came and then wesaid we have to leave, and soon
we packed our whole life inschool backpacks One cloth, two
documents and some maybe moneyand food to, you know, to just
go somewhere.
And then everything was there.
And then we locked the door andwe went to my uncle's house and

(35:22):
we spent one week there Like sono one would know where we were
.
And that day, I think, is a daythat I never would forget.
That day, I think, is a daythat I never would forget and
the fact that all the hopes thatI had was just destroyed and,
as I told you, like I wasrefusing the fact that I will
believe the Taliban would comeand take Afghanistan once again,

(35:45):
because there was one storythat was repeating my mom was
struggling, my grandma wasstruggling with war, my grand
grandmother and generationswhere everyone was struggling,
my grandma was struggling withwar, my grand grandmother and
generations where everyone wasstruggling, and it was, you know
.
I was thinking that, no, ourgeneration would have a
different life, we would have adifferent future, but so, that
being said, I was thinking ofall these different things, but

(36:08):
you know, so I remember thatduring that exact day, august 15
, 2021.
So we were in the car and thenagain, a traffic happened and
all families, the whole roads,all roads were full of people.
Everyone was trying to get intothe airport so they can leave
Afghanistan, because everyonewas terrified.

(36:28):
And the other thing was that thepresident of the country,
ashraf Ghani, he escaped thecountry.
Oh, wow, so like, suddenly, heleft the country.
He just the president of thecountry.

Gurasis (36:34):
Ashraf Ghani.
He escaped the country.

Muzhda (36:34):
Oh wow, so like suddenly he left the country.

Gurasis (36:36):
He just disappeared.
All the politicians.

Muzhda (36:38):
Yeah, all the politicians.
So we thought, okay, right nowthere is no government, maybe
Taliban will start killingeveryone.
So everyone was trying to justleave the country, especially
the ones who had some politicalbackgrounds or who were
activists or who werejournalists, like this type of
people.
So we were in the road and thenthere's like traffic because

(37:00):
there are so many people goingto the airport and we were
actually trying to get intoairport first.
Then suddenly gunshots starthappening and in that exact
moment I got this trauma.
I was shocked and I couldn'tbelieve.
Like I thought, okay, now theywill come and kill us, but then
so they didn't.
Then nothing happened.

(37:20):
But in that like it took usfour hours to go to my uncle's
house, and that exact momentthat the the gunshots start
happening, for one exactly yearI had that trauma that every
night suddenly I would wake upand then I thought, okay,
someone is like there is agunshots.
So that really impacted mymental health.
But, as I said, you know, thatday was the start of very so

(37:44):
much hardship for women,especially in Afghanistan, for
everyone, but specifically women.
Ever since that day it's beentwo years and then, on September
of that month, taliban bannedwomen from going to school,
secondary school.
Soon after that, they bannedwomen from going to public
spaces like parks.
They banned women from any typeof sport activities.

(38:08):
They banned the jams for women,the bathhouses for women, the
air salons, all salons, all typeof salons.
Then, soon after that, onDecember of 2022, they banded
all the universities to women.
It means, right now, afghanwomen, they don't have access to
school, they don't have accessto university, they cannot

(38:29):
continue their education, whichmeans we will not have future
women doctors, we will not havefuture Afghan women who are
engineers.
Like all the dreams are just,you know, gone.
And it is so hard to just thinkof how hard it would be for
women in Afghanistan livingthere Because, you know, I

(38:50):
previously mentioned to one ofthe friends.
I said just imagine how hard isit for a little girl growing up
in Afghanistan and knowing thatthe future she was waiting will
never come true.
And the future is all bleakBecause right now, the only
options for girls is, ok,getting married, and that is not
something most of girls arewanting and that is not

(39:11):
something most of girls arewanting.
So, like, for example, myclassmates, we used to be the
generation that, despite all war, despite all the blood on the
roads, we used to go to school,we used to work so hard.
And now imagine how hard is itthat all those options are
banned and now you're justsitting and waiting.
So I think it's you know.
Ever since that day, everythingis like getting worse and worse

(39:34):
and, as you say, like there isno word to justify it, how and
what will happen.
So I hope that something willhappen.

Gurasis (39:41):
I hope that peace come or at least girls have the
opportunity to learn and to goto school, because that gives
them a hope yeah, well, I thinkonce again which that you have
left me speechless I um, again,I can't even feel or even even
say anything that that I couldanyway, you know, even even

(40:05):
believe that this all washappening.
You know, this is completelyunbelievable, living in such
kind of environment.
And and you being just a tinychild, you were a teenager, you
know you were just trying topursue education and live your
life, but you were just notallowed to do that, or you could
not do that in such such kindof harsh environments.

(40:25):
And so tell us what happenednext then.
How did you guys decide to goto Pakistan and how did that
happen?
Tell us yeah.

Muzhda (40:35):
So, as I mentioned before, like my parents, they
had like this very governmentalbackground that my dad was a
police officer.
Like my grandma, she was anactivist.
So even like before the Talibancoming country taking the
control of Afghanistan, we usedto receive a lot of like threats
, death threats, that they wouldlike kidnap us.

(40:55):
They were like so there werelike so much things even before
the Taliban coming toAfghanistan.
So when the Taliban took, theimmediate reaction of my parents
were like okay, how should weleave the country?
When should we leave?
We were even hiding for oneweek, as I mentioned.
So then we waited for thesituation to get better in the
airport, but it didn't.
So we decided to go by theborder.

(41:17):
So we went to.
We had the visas, we had ourpassports, so we went to
Pakistan through the borders andI think you know the fact that
we had to leave everything andthen we didn't take anything
from our houses, of course.
We didn't take a bag.
Even the Taliban took myfather's car.
The Taliban took the control ofmy grandma's house for one

(41:41):
month, I think, not for onemonth, for three months that
they didn't allow any familymember to go there.
Because they said, okay, thisis a house from government,
because you're working withgovernment, it means this house
is ours now.
So, then eventually, my parentstried to get the house, but they
didn't give us back the cars orwith them.
So then we went to Pakistan andI think the journey being as a

(42:05):
refugee the word refugee is hard, because now you have to hold a
new life.
This is a new chapter of yourlife.
As a refugee, you are not ableto go to school.
As a refugee, it means that youhave to deal with a new
language, you have to deal witha new environment, with new
people and a lot of otherchallenges.
So I think the shift fromAfghanistan to Pakistan was

(42:27):
challenging too.
To cross the border and then toleaving everything behind your
family, your loved ones, yourhome, your country.
It was all hard but, yeah, Ithink, going.
But then the chapter that westarted in Pakistan was also so
different because we spent oneyear in.
Pakistan.
It was a whole life and thenduring this time I kind of

(42:50):
learned a little bit of Urdu,kind of that much that I could
solve my problems.
Then we used to like wecouldn't go to school, but what
we used to do was just, you know, helping ourselves to learn
some stuff by ourselves throughinternet, or maybe to go parks
and then trying to makeourselves busy.

Gurasis (43:11):
Yeah, how old were you then?

Muzhda (43:14):
During that time I was 16.
But then, when I went toPakistan, I turned 17.

Gurasis (43:19):
Okay, and did you have any family there or anybody
there?
Whom did you go and live with?

Muzhda (43:25):
No, in Pakistan we didn't know anyone.
I remember when we went we usedto spend like we got the house.
When we went, we used to spendlike we got the house, like
there was actually one afghanwhom whom my dad had a
connection with.
So we went there and then wejust got the house on that day
on that exactly day the housewas all empty, like just there

(43:47):
was like two couches, and then,like we used to be there, and
then it was at daytime.
So my parents went to buy somestuff to just like we used to be
there, and then it was atdaytime, so my parents went to
buy some stuff to just like wecould sleep well during the
night.
And then I think then, justgradually, we start buying stuff
and making a home in Pakistan,because our case was a bit
different.
Some of the refugees who wentto from Afghanistan to Pakistan,

(44:10):
they were supported by canadiangovernment or by different
governments, so it means thatthey had access to houses, they
had access to a lot of supports,but we didn't have that, so we
had to support ourselves so like, literally, my parents.
They use all their savings tomake a life in one year.

Gurasis (44:28):
Wow, like completely uprooting yourself.
I should not say uprootingyourself.
You were forced to uprootyourself and you were just like
kicked out of the country andfinding refuge in a new place
altogether, with no connections.
This is incredible.
I don't know how you guys wouldhave managed that, but you did
not lose hope, even in thatMishta.

(44:49):
In that one year.
You didn't have the access toeducation or anything, but you
decided to learn to code, youtaught yourself coding and
that's how you started, or Iwould say, the initial seed of
Code Green Afghanistan wasplanted, so tell us all about
that yeah, exactly as you said.

Muzhda (45:10):
I think that driving force even I had back in
Afghanistan.
I've always wanted to dosomething, especially in case of
children and case of girls inAfghanistan.
So what happened was when wewent to Pakistan, as I said,
that we couldn't go to theschool, maybe, like the first
five months was so hard for usto just adjust the fact, ok, we

(45:33):
are in a new country, we cannotdo this and that Now we have to
deal with X amount of stuff.
But then that kind of also hada little bit of depression in it
, a little bit of anxiety, thefact that you gradually lose
hope.
But I wasn't okay with losinghope, because I love the word
hope and I wanted to keep myselfhopeful for a better future.

(45:55):
So what happened was, like I'vealways was curious about coding
like even in Afghanistan but Inever tried it.
So I said, okay, let's give ita try, why not?
And then I remember I startedlike coding was very fun.
I would make one web page and Iwould show it to all my family
members hey, come on, mom, seewhat I make.
You can do it this, you can dothat.

(46:17):
And then when I would show thatto my uncles who were in
different countries, I wouldsend a link to them.
That was like kind of likegiving me that hope that, okay,
I'm doing something.
Then I started like learningmore and more and more.
I was watching a lot of coursesonline, a lot of videos on
YouTube, and then soon, Iremember there was one day I

(46:37):
said, okay, this thing is givingme a lot of hope, this thing is
giving me a lot of joy.
Why not share it, maybe withone or two of my classmates who
are right now in Afghanistan?
So I said let's make a brochureto it and then share it in my
Instagram and let's see ifanyone is interested in learning

(46:57):
coding with me and, to mysurprise, 30 girls, including 10
refugees in Pakistan, theyjoined.
And then for the next twomonths I was waking up early to
practice, to make everythingready and then to like to study
together and then I would recordthe videos to send it back to
girls who were, who could enjoyon join on that day.

(47:20):
So for two months we did html,we did css, we did some little
bit of a script and some otherconcepts in technology.
We talked about, like, thefuture of technology.
We had some conversation, weused to talk about photoshop and
all those things, and thenafter that, we came to canada.
And then when I came to canada,I tried to again keep on going

(47:43):
and my skills got a little bitof better.
And then there was onechallenge called ycm challenge
uh, so youth, uh changechallenge.
So I joined that.
There were like over 300participants from all over the
world, which then we had tocompete together and then come
up with the solution.
So my solution was good greenAfghanistanorg.

(48:05):
I started creating a platform.
I spent two months working sohard to make a website, a
professional website, and myteam working so hard to make a
website a professional website,and my team yeah, there, we
formed a team and then, out oflike all those competitors, we
won the education challenge.
We got the first position andthen, from that day till now, I

(48:25):
am working on Qigong inAfghanistan.
We have had many collaborationswith teachers in Afghanistan.
Our math class is currentlyhaving around we have registered
200 students, but students comeand go because of the internet
and everything, but we haveregistered around 200 students.
We are planning to add morecourses.

(48:46):
Apart from our educationalaspect of Kud Kreen, afghanistan
, we have one part called theblog session, which we give
opportunity to girls to sharetheir stories.
We have one part, like we havemany WhatsApp groups.
One is we share scholarshipopportunities.
We share differentopportunities that we come
across online and then we shareit with girls.

(49:06):
You know, just check out thisone, check out that one.
So these are the things that weare right now doing, but we
hopefully want to keep the workup.
We want to add more courses anddo more, hopefully, in future
that is phenomenal.

Gurasis (49:21):
I don't know how you're doing all that long with your
education, but tell us more likehow did you find these people,
these teachers, or how did youspread a word about this within
afghanistan and how did you,like you know, caught more and
more?
How did you just spread a wordabout this within afghanistan
and how did you, like you know,caught more and more?
How did you just spread a wordabout this?
Or more and more people, ormore and more girls can come and
join your courses.
How did that happen?

Muzhda (49:41):
yeah, exactly so.
Even in afghanistan I was kindof an influencer not a big one,
like not a big one at all, but Ihad this like social media
account.
I have like around 2,000followers.
So, like I used to posteverything, I used to write a
lot and then all those things.
So I already had this one likecommunity, like around 1,000

(50:06):
girls maybe.
So when I shared that, most ofthose girls were interested in.
So they said, okay, like weknow you much there, you've been
doing all these things, so wewant to join the course that
most of those girls wereinterested in.
So they said, okay, like weknow you much that you've been
doing all these things.
So we want to join the course.
But then through that socialmedia I had other connections.
For example, there were somefamous people who used to follow
me or from Afghanistan.
So when I shared thisopportunity they shared it on

(50:26):
their stories, so it kind ofbrought more girls together.
And then through that I kind ofknew some courses we connected
with courses online and theysaid okay, yeah, we would love
to collaborate with you.
It kind of happened withnetworking and connections that
I already had okay, okay,awesome.

Gurasis (50:44):
So if any of our listeners would like to, you
know, join your mission wherethey can connect with you yeah,
that would be amazing.

Muzhda (50:53):
Find us in linkedin.
You can find us on instagram,facebook.

Gurasis (50:57):
We have our email address and all those things so
you can check out and if anybodyjust want to reach out to you,
they can reach out to you onlinkedin, I suppose yeah, yes,
also in linkedin.

Muzhda (51:06):
My.
My name in linkedin is mujdaakbari.
I will share the link with youso you can share it with the
audience and also on myinstagram.
It's also much that very thesame name.
Yeah, you can find me perfect,awesome.

Gurasis (51:20):
I'll put the links to that in the show notes.
So much so let's just talk alittle bit about your move to
canada.
Tell us a little bit about thebehind the scenes, that how did
that came about, and tell usabout your first day when you
landed yeah, thank you.

Muzhda (51:39):
So about the canada, I think canada has always been a
dream of my mom, especially whenwe always loved canada.
She used to even in afghanistanshe said I wished I was born in
canada it was like quite funnythat that when we came to
Pakistan so we tried to applyfor refugee programs.
So we applied for this refugeeprogram for US actually.

(52:01):
But then they emailed us thatthey said there are a lot of
applications for US.
Do you want to ask to refer youto Canada?
Like, we will refer yourapplication to Canada.
And my mom was so happy.
She said what Of course I want.
I didn't know people would askCanada.
My mom was so happy she saidwhat Of course I won.
I didn't know people lostCanada this much.
But yeah, she said yeah.
So we kind of applied for thatrefugee program and then, after

(52:25):
spending one year in Pakistan,we came here to Canada the first
day we landed on Winnipeg.
In Winnipeg we spent one nightin Winnipeg.
It was a very cold day.
It was around december.
Yeah, it was around december,very cold.
And then after that we went totander bay.
We spent three months in tanderbay.

(52:45):
Uh, tander bay was again supercold, like our first experience
from canada was for me.
I was like a big fan of snow,because in Pakistan we didn't
have snow for one year thecoming and all the snow was so.
We were so happy and I remember.
So we were in the hotel andthat day there was a very heavy

(53:09):
snow.
I told my sisters and someother girls, you know, let's go
play snowballing together.
And then we said, okay, yeah,why not?
Because all of us came fromPakistan and Pakistan was so hot
yeah.
So we went, we were playingtogether, and then it was so
cold that our lashes was likefrozen, yeah, but we were

(53:29):
playing, didn't care.
And then I remember all thecars would cross and they were
like like what are you doing inthis cold?
And then we went back to thehotel and then I remember all
the cars would cross and theywere like like what are you
doing in this cold?
And then we went back to thehotel and then our case workers
came and they said you wereplaying in minus 30 degree
outside like we didn't know.
It was minus 30 degree, wedidn't know.

(53:50):
But then she said okay, it'svery cold, do not go outside.
So after that we were notallowed to go outside because of
the cold.
So our first experience wasexperience was cold, this but
then like gradually, gradually,like kind of dealing with the
new environment, learning how tocross the road, because
crossing within here was sodifferent in crossing within

(54:13):
pakistan and afghanistan becauseof the lights, and then dealing
with cards, credit cards.
It was our first experience oflike using credit cards, for
example.
We have never used credit cards.
In Afghanistan, everything wasby cash.
Even in Pakistan it was by cash.
So we had to learn how to managecredit cards and then learning
how to like order stuff, like somany new things like everything

(54:37):
was and the funny part was likemy sisters and I we were in
charge of controlling everythingbecause my parents, they don't
know English, so like we had totake care of the credit cards,
we have to take care of thedocuments, we have to.
Like we literally becameaccountants, lawyer, everything

(54:57):
that you just imagine like,because even like we were
teenagers but we had to learnall these things because my
parents, they didn't know allthose things.
So that was like the beginning,but then, yeah, later on, I
think.
Then we moved to here,mississauga, right now, from
Thunder Bay and then we rightnow we are in a school and again

(55:19):
everything.
There were a lot of cultureshocks, there was a lot of
things that we had to like,adapt, but overall it has been
so far a very good experience.

Gurasis (55:29):
Wow.
So you are working on thismission, you know, to empower
Afghan girls, girls.
You are mere 18, who isstudying as well, and then you
are also sort of playing allthese other roles and helping
hand to your parents.
So that's a lot of things thatyou are uh doing in a day.
But tell me, uh, misha, do youfind it like it's like

(55:53):
additional responsibility, or orI would like to define it, how
would you define this?
Like you really assisting yourparents for everything, be it
like groceries, be it like allthese other services that they
have to access to, and they haveto do it through you?
How do you feel about that?
Do feel like additionalpressure, or or how?

(56:15):
How is it for you tell us?

Muzhda (56:18):
oh my gosh, it is so much pressure, like so much,
because like um one part is like, of course, like in our culture
and maybe in india too.

Gurasis (56:28):
Yeah, I can really I'll do the same, for sure, yeah
exactly like we really value.

Muzhda (56:34):
It's not the question of like, should I do it or no,
like we just want to do it andthen we have to do it.
But then in one point you willbe, you find yourself in a
position okay, I cannot dealwith all these things, but I
also cannot do it.
You know, like I just can't say, okay, I don't want to do it,
because if I don't do it, who doit?
Who will do it?
So you kind of have to do allthese things and managing your

(56:56):
time, managing the energy.
But then the other hard part islike okay, you are dealing with
very important documents.

Gurasis (57:03):
Yeah.

Muzhda (57:04):
With very important work .
What if I miss up something?
What if something goes wrong?
And then there were, like somuch pressure, I think in the
very first stages, that we cameto Canada Because, as you know,
like you have to get your newdocuments, you have to translate
everything you have to go tothe school, enroll yourself,
take appointments, get doctor,family doctor and all those

(57:27):
things.
So it was very hard and I thinkthere was a lot of pressure and
then there were times that Ijust wanted to say no, I don't
want to do it.
But then we had to do it andI'm happy that I have my sisters
with me, so one of my sisters.
We have one year each gap, sowe kind of try to share the work
together, but I think it ischallenging for each one of us.

(57:49):
But then another part of it isthat, okay, I'm happy that I am
able to help my parents even inthis situation, and I think it's
gonna teach us a lot of lessonsin future that yeah, later on,
like I think there was a veryfunny thing in our school, my
teacher started asking myclassmates like have anyone ever

(58:10):
got an appointment?
I said is it a question?

Gurasis (58:14):
well, look at me.

Muzhda (58:15):
I've been setting up appointments here and there I
was like, oh my gosh, is it aquestion?
So even that, like you know,you kind of learn a lot of
things.

Gurasis (58:26):
Maybe they've got to push you ahead but, still, it is
no, I think it's incredible, atthe same time, that it's
preparing you for your future.
So that's good, but I'm surethere would be times much that
you would have messed somethings up.
Do you have any examples ofthat?

Muzhda (58:40):
share us, share with us that oh my gosh, there was a lot
of time, like I remember thatthere was very important, a very
important document and then wehad to fill that out and then in
the in the name of my mom, I,instead of writing the first
name, I wrote the first name andthe last name together, like

(59:01):
Mujgan Akberi, like together.
And then in the last name Iwrote Akberi again, like the
last name again twice, and thenthese documents were printed.
All the names are correct, butmy mom's name has two last name
and now that two last names inevery document that we have,
like in all the documents, mymom's name is oh my god, oh my

(59:23):
god, my dad is what happened?
Why you did that, my mom, whyyou have, why this happened, and
I'm like I don't know whathappened.

Gurasis (59:31):
Cut me some slack.

Muzhda (59:33):
I'm helping you in a different language that was so
hard and then we had to go toour caseworkers and change that
from all over again and then itmeans there was a change in all
the documents so that and thensometimes missing the
appointments, like you have anappointment but you are in
school and you miss that.
Oh, I had an appointment who mymother had appointed my dad, so

(59:56):
, yeah, there was.
There's a lot of this kind ofexperiences oh, wow, oh amazing,
amazing love these stories.

Gurasis (01:00:05):
Um so, before we get to the final segment, uh, mushta,
is there something that I havemissed and you would like to
share with our listeners?
There's something, some topicthat you would like to cover?

Muzhda (01:00:14):
I think there was one experience that I wanted to
share with our listeners.
There's something, some topicthat you would like to cover.
I think there was oneexperience that I wanted to
share with, maybe with youraudience.

Gurasis (01:00:22):
Sure.

Muzhda (01:00:23):
So when we were in Vander Bay the one day, our
caseworker she came, her namewas Michelle.
She came and she said you know,there is a business hackathon,
a business program, in theUniversity of Lakehead, in the
Lakehead University.
So I was like, okay, what typeof competition is it?
And then she said, okay,there's a business competition.

(01:00:44):
You have to come up with abusiness idea, you have to
compete with university students.
The university teachers will bethe jazz and the list goes.
And I was like what?
University students in auniversity and ads like teenage
girls Afghan teenage going there.
And then she said just go andtry it.
And I was like no, I'm nottrying.

(01:01:06):
So in one week I was navigatingthe fact should we go or?

Gurasis (01:01:10):
shouldn't.

Muzhda (01:01:11):
So I told my sisters, you know, just let's give it a
try.
Why not, like, just give?
So I told my sisters, you know,just let's give it a try, why
not Just give it a try?
Maybe we will meet new people,we will improve our
communication, our language, allthose things.
So we went there inside theLeket University and I see all
these university students,university teachers and me and
my sisters.

(01:01:31):
We are like the teenagers andAfghan girls.
So we went and said, ok, whyare you here?
And I said we are here for thecompetition.
So the competition was we hadto come up with a business idea
and then the price was $4,000.

Gurasis (01:01:48):
OK.

Muzhda (01:01:51):
So $4,000 is a lot of money in Afghanistan you can
literally buy a house with it.
So, with my sisters, and thenwe came, and then the first
round was okay, we have to makea pitch, one minute pitch, and
then we have to present it infront of everyone.
And then I was in charge ofgiving the pitch and I told my
sisters you know what?
I'm not doing?
it, I'm not doing okay and thenthey said no, you have to do it.

(01:02:14):
So like dealing with thatemotion.
So I just did that one minutepitch and then the reaction was
so good and then we went to thesecond phase of the competition
and then we had to make thisbusiness idea.
We made the business idea andthen the final day came, which
which the professors, universityprofessors, some of them from

(01:02:35):
the business school, all of themcame and now we had to create a
five minute pitch and thenpresent it in front of everyone.
There were a lot of guests,judges, teachers, everyone Very
professional program.
It was my first time being in asector program.
I was in charge of the pitchbecause I had to do the pitch.
I was in charge of the pitchbecause, yeah, I had to do like

(01:02:59):
the pitch.
I was the.
I had the rule of see you inthat competition in our team, oh
my gosh.
So I am here and I'm presentingthe idea and then so the
competition ended on that.
There was a two-day competition, from eight in the morning all
the way to eight on the night,so it was a very long time.
And then the winner.
It was the time for announcingthe winner.

(01:03:19):
And guess what happened.
Out of all the teams, out ofall the university students, we
were chosen as the first place.
Not just the first place, butwe also got the People's Choice
Award.
Oh, wow, it was like the likegroup of refugees who were in
the hotel.
Everyone was like surprisedwhat happened, how you guys won

(01:03:42):
because, like, we really workedhard and then we tried to make
it the most um out of thatprogram.
But that experience taught me alot of lessons is that I think
most of your audience also comesfrom international students,
and I am also like a refugee andwe are immigrants.
What I want to say is that youknow, when you come across this
type of opportunities, don'tthink that you are not capable

(01:04:05):
of doing it.
Just give it a try.
Just because you're a refugee,just because you're an immigrant
, just because you're aninternational student, just
because you have languageproblems, just because you don't
have the age requirements oranything, don't stop yourself.
Yeah, like, just go and do itand you don't know what happens.

(01:04:26):
And then on that experience wewon four thousand dollars.
So it was like a very big thingfor us the fact that we are
just we just came to canada andthen all this thing happened.
That was like.
That taught me a lot of lessonsand that also gave me that
courage that you know, even ifI'm in a new country, if I put
the work hard, if I believe inmyself, I can do anything.

(01:04:46):
And I just wanted to give thatmessage to your audience too
that don't stop yourself whenyou just try something.
Put believe in yourself, evenif you're terrified.
You know, even if you're scared, be scared, be terrified, just
do it.

Gurasis (01:05:02):
You know, just do it yeah, no, I love that very, very
powerful uh, message, verypowerful words, mushta, and I'm
so glad you shared the storywith everybody because it's
exactly what our vision is.
You know through podcasts thatjust because you're an immigrant
, just because you are of acertain gender, you know in our
conversation in this case andjust because you're of a certain

(01:05:23):
age or you have a certainexperience, it does not define
you or it does not limits you totry something new.
Go for it.
Go for it if it works for you,great.
If it takes you somewhere else,great.
If it does not, it was alearning experience and just
learn from it and apply theexperience in somewhere else.
So it's absolutely okay to goahead and do the things and

(01:05:43):
don't limit yourself justbecause you're an immigrant here
.
So, thank you, thank you muchfor sharing that.
Yeah, so much before we getinto the final segment.
I have introduced this newsegment in the second season of
the podcast and I call it knowyour host, where I give my
guests an opportunity to ask meany questions you might have

(01:06:07):
yeah, I would like to ask you aquestion.

Muzhda (01:06:09):
So what was the your favorite?
Like what was your first day incanada?
Like what was your favorite?
Like what was your first day inCanada?
Like what was your experiencein Canada when you first came
here.

Gurasis (01:06:19):
Wow, I was waiting for somebody to ask me this question
, because I have asked thisquestion to all my guests and I
do have an answer to that.
I have a really long answer,but I'll try to shorten it up
and I'll share that with you.
The short answer is it wasterrifying, it was hard, okay,
so okay, I'll tell that with you.
The short answer is it wasterrifying, it was hard, okay,
so okay, I'll tell you briefly.
So when I landed, a taxi wassupposed to come and pick me up

(01:06:42):
at 8 pm, 8.30 pm, and I wassupposed to go to like a distant
, random person I found onFacebook Messenger, who was very
sweet and who said sure, youcan come and stay with us for
the initial days and by the timeyou find your house, you know,
I was like sure.
So I packed my bags, I landedhere at 8.30pm and when I

(01:07:04):
checked, like my taxi is notcoming, which was supposed to
come, which was a taxi given tous by school or something was
there which I don't exactlyremember now, and that taxi was
supposed to come and pick me up.
That didn't show up and I waslike man, how am I supposed to
go anywhere?
And even my internet is notconnecting for some reason.
I don't I.
Even if I want to order an uber, it has to be like through

(01:07:26):
credit card and everything.
So how am I supposed to do allthat?
No, you were just.
You have like so many otherthings going on in your mind
when you just land, um.
So I called those, that personwhom I was supposed to go to the
house to.
I called him on messenger andsomehow my internet connected
and I called him and he said oh,I don't live that far, so I'll
come and pick you up.
So he was so sweet that hisname was peter.

(01:07:48):
I mean, shout out to youamazing person, amazing human
being.
I'm still in touch with her.
It's been six years and he cameand he picked me up, along with
his friend, and then he took meto his house and I remember
their house was on the fourthfloor of the building, so so you
can imagine a lot of stairs,and I had, uh, three big 23 kgs

(01:08:13):
bags.
They were not 23 kgs, mashta, Ican assure you.
I was trying to pack my life inthose three suitcases.
They were not 23 kgs, they wereat least like 25 each, or maybe
more than that, and one of themwas even close to 30.
I remember I paid extra forthat.
When I landed here that this theactual guy whom I connected
with.
He went to his work and hisfriend was there to welcome me

(01:08:36):
to the house.
His friend helped me to carrythose three big bags to fourth
floor and he was so nice and hehelped me do all those and that
was tiring.
And when I was, I remembermoving my bags upstairs and I
was like, okay, this is Canada,welcome to Canada.
This is where your strugglestarts.

(01:08:58):
And yes, that was my firstnight, so to say.
And what happened the next day?
I think I'll keep it, uh, foranother episode, for sure, but
yes, that was my first night.
And I remember when I reachedthe place, you know, when I
moved everything upstairs andthat guy was very nice, he
ordered a pizza for me, you know, and he.

(01:09:20):
So that was also the first timeI got to know that you can
order a pizza which can be halfvegetarian and half
non-vegetarian.
I didn't know that you could dothat and because he could, he
didn't eat non-veg andnon-vegetarian and he ordered a
pizza which was like half veg,half non-vegetarian and he
ordered a pizza which was likehalf veg, half non-vegetarian.
I was like, oh, you can do that, I I didn't know about that.

(01:09:40):
So he ordered a pizza that forme, and along with that he
served me juice, and his namewas heart breathe, I remember.
So, yeah, amazing people, Icame across on my very first
night and I can't be moregrateful for that.
And yes, so that was my firstday, first night in, uh, in
Montreal, canada yeah, that'sgood.

Muzhda (01:10:02):
So you went to first to Montreal and then came so I am,
I'm still in Montreal.

Gurasis (01:10:07):
I landed here in Montreal and when I met you in
Toronto, I was just visitingToronto for like 10 days or so.

Muzhda (01:10:17):
Yeah, oh, that's great.
Montreal is such a beautifulcity.

Gurasis (01:10:22):
I just went there once.
Indeed it is.
It is very beautiful, lots ofthings to do, very exciting
place for sure.
Yeah, okay, well, thank you.
Thank you for that question,loved it.
So now we're in the finalsegment of the podcast.
I call it beneath the accentbecause we are knowing each
other beneath the accent.
I'm going to ask a couple ofquestions.

(01:10:43):
You can answer them in one wordor a sentence, or how.
So you feel like the idea isjust to know more about mushta,
so ready yeah, of course so whatadvice would you give to mushta
, who is in the initial monthsof landing in canada?

Muzhda (01:10:59):
don't go outside that much because I got sick okay,
okay.

Gurasis (01:11:06):
Describe a moment when you experienced like a
significant cultural shock inour school.

Muzhda (01:11:13):
I was in first day of school.
My sister and I we were.
I was so prepared and seriouslike I took my notebook, my pen
and I was staring at my teacher.
And then the teacher said okay,do your work.
And then one one of myclassmates is playing video game
, the other one is watchingmovie okay and the other one is,
oh my gosh, talking very badly.

(01:11:34):
I was like, oh my gosh, what theteacher is here, why you're
talking like that.
But then I realized that it'sjust normal.
Then even one student wassleeping and then I said, oh,
this is the class wow, what kindof classroom was that?

Gurasis (01:11:48):
that's crazy, yeah it was physics class okay, what's
that one dish from your homecountry that always brings you
comfort and nostalgia?

Muzhda (01:12:01):
It is mantu.
Oh, I love mantu.
I even love the name of it.
It's like mantu when you breakit down, it means me and you.
Oh, okay, and then it is a dish.
So it is like oh my gosh, sucha delicious dish.
We cook it like not often, butdish we, we cook it like not
often, but like sometimes wecook it and I love it what?

Gurasis (01:12:19):
what is it?

Muzhda (01:12:20):
tell me more about that yeah, it is uh kind of like.
It has uh meat onion, somespices, and it is.
It has the shape of dumpling,like the chinese dumpling, but
it's like quite different.
It's like not similar, it'squite different.
When we cook it like alltogether, especially when my mom
cook it, it is the mostdelicious one.

(01:12:41):
I just love it awesome, soundsgreat.

Gurasis (01:12:44):
Is it that available in canada?
Do you think I can buy and tryokay?

Muzhda (01:12:49):
exactly like whenever you saw a afghani like, just ask
them like Mantoo or Mantoo,yeah, mantoo, they will like,
they will probably have it forsure, okay, perfect, are there
any funny story related tomisunderstanding around the
accent or English that you have?
Around English?

(01:13:10):
I think yeah.
So most of the time like I mixup the words, like I mix up a
lot of like the words when itcomes to the school, like when I
talk, I keep like differentwords.
And then there was like veryfunny experience with me is that
my best friend, so she isAfghan, so we always talk
Persian together, like we alwaystalk like Farsi.

(01:13:31):
Then sometimes I'm in aclassroom and then my Canadian
classmate or my Indian orPakistani classmates are with me
and I'm just talking with themand then they say like what,
what are you doing?
And then I realize that I'mspeaking Farsi with them and
they say like what are youspeaking?
Sometimes even with the teacher.

(01:13:58):
Like I'm talking with theteacher and the teacher is like,
are you okay?
And then I realized that I justspoke Farsi with the teacher
Because like I'm so much exposedwith my best friends.
So, we talk in Farsi a lot.

Gurasis (01:14:07):
I miss up like the whole language.

Muzhda (01:14:07):
Yeah, a lot of forgetting words in this moment.

Gurasis (01:14:11):
No, I can relate to that.
I remember initially, in myinitial year, my translator
would just completely stop my mybrain would stop.
I wanted to say something and Iwould end up speaking in
punjabi and they were like what,what do you?
What do you mean by that?
And I'm like, okay, give me amoment, I'll get back to you.
I don't know exactly.
Yeah, okay, so what's yourfavorite cultural festival or

(01:14:35):
celebration in canada?

Muzhda (01:14:37):
in canada.
Oh, in canada I think I'venever been to any like big
culture program till now, butthere are some like.
In mississauga we havecelebration center.
Sometimes there's like a lot oflike cultural programs.
They have like food.
There was one time I went therewas like international food
festival where countries,different countries, was

(01:14:59):
bringing their own food and I'ma big fan of food, so that was
like my favorite and I love thefact that.
How diverse canada is so when Iwas there, I could find food
from all over the world, so Iliterally tried food from all
the way india to china perfectexperience okay, share a quick

(01:15:20):
tip for fellow immigrants whoare trying to adjust to a new
country yeah, I think sometimeswe tend to think, okay, I'm just
going to learn everything bymyself.
I think this is kind ofillusion.
We should not be like.
Yeah, I think, asking questions, trying to talk with friends,
ask, just simply ask thequestion what are your advice

(01:15:43):
for a new immigrant?

Gurasis (01:15:44):
what are your?

Muzhda (01:15:45):
advice for a new.
I think asking these questionswill help you so much.
The fact that sometimes, youknow, even I find myself not
asking and then spending twoweeks trying to find a way for
something.
But if I ask someone it willjust solve in one hour, so why
not ask?
So I think my best tip would bealways ask questions and don't

(01:16:07):
be afraid to ask questions.

Gurasis (01:16:09):
Love that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Tell us about your first friendthat you made in Canada and
where did you meet them.
Yeah, your first friend thatyou made in Canada and where did
you meet them?

Muzhda (01:16:17):
Yeah, my first friend, okay, I think the first friend I
met here was also Afghan.
No, no, no, no, afghan.
Yeah, actually, yeah, I have avery good story.
Sure, the first friend I metwas an Afghan refugee in Tander
Bay.
She was also from Badakhshanand we kind of got very close.
What happened was my family weare a big family, we have big

(01:16:39):
family members, we are five,seven people and then our room.
We had two rooms, but we usedto gather all in one room, we
used to come together and thenthere was a lot of noise.
My little sister and brother.
There was so much noise andeverything.
So what happens is I met thisfriend and she said you know
what?
I am all by myself, I'm alone.

(01:17:01):
Why you do not join me in myroom?
And then it's an amazing idea.
And then I spent that threemonths in Tenderbee with her.
I used to sleep in her room andshe was an amazing chef.
She used to cook so deliciousfood and then I was having the
best time.
I was having the best food.
We used to watch moviestogether, we used to go explore

(01:17:22):
the city.
So I think my first friend hername was Mushteri that I met her
in Tander Bay, and ever sincethen we are even friends.
I was part of the MUN in.
Toronto.
The cost of the mu in intoronto I, the cost of the house
, the hotel was 200.
But because I knew my friend Iwent to her room.

(01:17:42):
She, she has her roommates butjust because of that friend I
went to her room and she hadbeen super helpful, like a
sister for me.

Gurasis (01:17:50):
Wow, love that, love the story.
What's something that you atefor the first time in Canada?

Muzhda (01:17:55):
Yeah, I tried poutine.
Oh, that was like, yeah, when Icame here I started to search
okay, what are the most famousfoods in Canada?
And then it started likepoutine and some other food.
So there was two Canadian womenin Tenderbed.
They said, okay, let's take youto try poutine.
And I was expecting a very likedifferent food, a canadian food

(01:18:16):
, but I just found it's justfries and cheese, which I said
okay, okay, you didn't tryafghani food ours definitely.

Gurasis (01:18:26):
I would say you know our indian, even afghan.
You know our brown food, so tosay, is really good.
It's full of flavor and good,you know.

Muzhda (01:18:38):
It's quite different.
It's just like fries yeah.

Gurasis (01:18:42):
Okay, if you had to describe yourself as any
creature, animal or a bird, whatwould it be and why?

Muzhda (01:18:51):
I love this question.
My favorite animal is cat and Ilove cats and I think I would
definitely be a cat and I think,if there's, like there's one
theory that we say, okay, in theprevious life I was some animal
, I think I was a cat, I was acat and I will be a cat.
I love cats okay.

Gurasis (01:19:10):
Do you own a cat right now or no?

Muzhda (01:19:14):
oh, I have been insisting my mom that I want a
cat but she says no, no, no,because I have one little sister
.
And my mom said you alreadyhave one cat and we don't need
anymore.
But definitely, whenever I havea chance to be with myself, I
will get not one cat but 10 cats.

Gurasis (01:19:31):
Okay, okay.
These are like classic answersfrom our parents.
You know, we already have a dog, we have you why we need a dog,
we already have you why we needa cat.
It's like classic answers fromour parents yeah, yeah, okay,
okay.
So much that if you could haveone superpower, what would it be
?

Muzhda (01:19:50):
wow, I love this question too.
I think superpowers.
I love the superpower of beinginvisible.
No, no, no, not invisible.
I wanted to have one invisiblefriend like one creator, maybe
like just one invisible friendwho would be so like intelligent
, so smart, and then thatinvisible friend would help me

(01:20:13):
in everything.
And then that invisible friendwould help me in everything,
because I wanted to have one.
I used to watch movies and Ithought maybe there are some
invisible creatures even in theworld, and I was even one time
trying to connect with one,which is very scary.
What I was so scared, yeah, doyou know that they say there are
creatures are creatures that wecan see like ghosts, and okay I

(01:20:36):
was thinking, if I connect withone and that ghost would help
me with my exams, they wouldtake the exam papers and
everything.
But no, that's a bad idea.
But I wish I there was like anopportunity like that to have
one invisible friend who can doeverything and then can help you
okay, don't, don't try thatghost thing again.

Gurasis (01:20:55):
I don't, I would not recommend that okay if you had
to create this one law thateveryone has to follow, what
would it be?

Muzhda (01:21:06):
I think everyone should own their own businesses, like
just everyone doing what theywant to do and not trying to
sneak out on other people's likelife in a way that it is not
like comfortable, because evenin this world right now we can
see that people are just okaywith giving opinion and I think

(01:21:26):
it is not okay to just giveopinion.
I think freedom and democracydoes not mean that you should be
so much okay to get into otherpeople's rules, beliefs, because
we're just different.
Like you know, people come fromdifferent culture and if you
are expressing your culture inany way, either it is dressing
in a different way, either it isspeaking in a different way.

(01:21:48):
I think no one should beallowed to like stop you.
So I think that one rule wouldbe respecting everything.
Everyone, and just everyone,should own their own businesses
yeah, perfect, love the answer.

Gurasis (01:22:00):
Okay, so much that the home is where the heart is, you
know, and if you had to chooseone thing that makes you feel
most home in canada, what wouldit be?

Muzhda (01:22:11):
uh, I love like poetry sometimes.
No, no, afghan, afghani music,afghani music.
Yeah, I think whenever I playAfghani music, they just like
bring me back home and I don'tknow.
Like that's a great feeling andalso I have, I want to show it
here.
It's just in my table so I havethis kind of like carpet like

(01:22:33):
little carpet.
Yeah, I got this fromafghanistan, so it is like a
piece of home.
I have it like in my room soit's kind of always when I see
it, it's like giving me thatvibe of my country.
I love culture so I love likeuh carpets, so it's kind of give
me home amazing, yeah, okay, sodescribe canada in one word.

(01:22:54):
What a sentence peaceful, Ithink peaceful, yeah.
I love the fact that, howpeople are living in harmony,
the fact that we knew when I wasin a country like afghanistan I
thought like, let's say,christians or muslims would
never live in a classroomtogether or live in a place
together.
but when you come here and thenlike in our school, in one class

(01:23:18):
, like I have a classmate who isJew, I have a classmate who is
like, for example, hindu.
I have a classmate who is Muslim, like all people together, like
different skin colors,different cultures and everyone
is okay Like this teachessomething that you like all the
politics how politics can bescary that you know people are

(01:23:39):
trying to stop us to be together, but when you go in a classroom
you see people don't have anyproblem.
Like people are just people.
So I think I love the harmonyand peace in here absolutely
can't agree more.

Gurasis (01:23:52):
So if you could leave me Mushtab in one piece of
advice, what would it be?

Muzhda (01:23:58):
I think I really love the fact that you started this
podcast.
Like my take accent, and I wantyou to keep doing this.
I think it is, as I justmentioned before, like our
cultures, our things that aredifferentiate us from others.
It does not mean that it makeus to be like so separate us,

(01:24:19):
but cultures can bring peopletogether.
Like if I am from afghanistan,it's it's very important that
how can I learn to deal withother cultures, learn from
different cultures, and I reallylove the work that you are
doing.
So I think just keep doing itand you are doing amazing
awesome.

Gurasis (01:24:35):
Thank you.
And finally, how would youdescribe your experience of
being on this podcast?

Muzhda (01:24:41):
amazing, wonderful.
I think I was previously in onepodcast but I wasn't maybe like
that comfortable in a way that,because it maybe was my first
experience, but I've had likethe most amazing conversation
and it was like the questions,the way you speak, everything
you ask, very amazing.
So, yeah, thank you so much forthat awesome thank you.

(01:25:03):
Thank you for your kind words.

Gurasis (01:25:05):
Uh, much time.
Thank you for being on thepodcast, or how you taught me
initially, you said tashikor,right, tashikor, whichor, which
means thank you.
So thank you.
No, I'm not that smart.
I have my notes here.
But yeah, if you say, yes, Idid remember that.
So Tashikor, and thank you foradding value to my listeners.

Muzhda (01:25:27):
Thank you, Thank you so much for that.

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From Taliban's Grip to Empowering Afghan Voices: A Courageous Path to Change | Ft. Muzhda Akbari Ep. 061

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}From Taliban's Grip to Empowering Afghan Voices: A Courageous Path to Change | Ft. Muzhda Akbari Ep. 061