November 24, 2025 • 25 mins
What if reaching your goals still leaves you feeling empty? In this episode, I talk with executive coach Joe Denner about why success can sometimes feel disconnected from purpose—and how to bring that deeper sense of calling back to the center of your work. Joe shares his own pivot story and offers a grounded view of purpose as both contribution and calling, not just personal preference or financial gain.
Together, we explore why entrepreneurs can lose their way—taking on opportunities out of habit, mistaking what they’re good at for what they’re meant to do, or getting swept up in the momentum of growth. You’ll hear practical tools for realignment, including Joe’s 90-day review rhythm and tips for identifying the overlap between your natural strengths and meaningful impact. This conversation is for anyone craving more energy, clarity, and direction in their business.
Joe Denner's Website
3-Step Guide to Living the Life You Always Wanted - a clear, practical path for entrepreneurs and leaders who know there's more to this life—but feel unfulfilled, stuck, or unsure of what’s next.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Janice Hostager (00:04):
I'm Janice Hostager.
After three decades in themarketing business and many
years of being an entrepreneur,I've learned a thing or two
about marketing.
Join me as we talk aboutmarketing, small business, and
life in between.
Welcome to My Weekly Marketing.
Have you ever hit a point inyour business where you catch
(00:30):
yourself thinking, wait, is thisall there is?
You're super busy, you'rebooked up, you're maybe even
successful on paper, butsomething still feels a little
off.
You built the business, youhave the brand, you have the
long to-do list, but somewherealong the way you feel like
you've lost why you do it.
Maybe it's that moment that youhit a big goal but felt nothing
(00:54):
but exhaustion.
Or maybe like me, you have aconstant, ever-moving horizon
that you can't seem to everreach.
Maybe by the time you sat downto work on your dream business,
you realize it didn't feel likeyour dream anymore.
It might be that you believe,like I do, that God put you here
on this earth for a reason, butyou can't seem to figure out
what that reason is.
If you've been craving moremeaning, more clarity, or just a
(01:16):
sense of direction, today'sepisode is for you.
My guest Joe Denner helpsentrepreneurs and business
leaders figure out their truepurpose, not just their careers,
but in their lives too.
Because when your businessaligns with your purpose, things
start to click again.
You stop spinning your wheelsand start feeling fulfilled by
what you're building.
So if you've been wonderingwhat's next for you, or you're
(01:39):
feeling that quiet little tugthat there's something more,
grab your coffee and lean in.
This conversation might be thespark that you've been waiting
for.
Well, hey, Joe.
Thanks for being on the showtoday.
Joe Denner (01:51):
Yeah.
I'm glad to be here, Janice.
Janice Hostager (01:53):
You talk a lot about helping people find their
purpose beyond their career.
So, what led you to start doingthat kind of work?
Joe Denner (02:01):
Yeah, probably back in the early to mid-2000s, I was
in a career I loved.
I was enjoying myself, but webegan to think about how things
could be different for ourfamily.
We had chosen to home educateour kids and were looking for
ways to get me more involvedwith that.
And that really led us to beginexploring a career change.
(02:22):
And so as I did that, I beganto think about what do I want to
do?
I really didn't know.
I didn't have any ideas aboutwhat I wanted to do.
What I did know was that Ididn't like taxes and I was in
accounting and finance at thetime.
And I thought, I don't think Iwant to do a, I don't think I
want to start my own CPA firm.
And so that led us to a bigsearch and discovery.
(02:44):
And in that process, I attendeda weekend workshop and I had
involvement with some otherthings that really got me
thinking about why am I here?
What's my purpose for being onthis planet?
And that's really how it allstarted was beginning to explore
a new career.
And I felt like it, that shouldbe rooted in something more
(03:04):
than just what do I like to door just where can I make some
money?
So that's really what startedthe journey for me.
Janice Hostager (03:11):
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
How do you define purpose?
Because it's one of those wordsI think we hear all the time,
but don't really always know howto apply it in our everyday
life.
Joe Denner (03:20):
Yeah, to me, it's a sense of calling.
It's a sense of why am I here?
What have I been put on thisplanet to do?
What am I here to accomplish?
I'm I've been put here for areason.
I tell my kids all the time,you were created on purpose and
with a purpose.
And I really do believe that wehave certain natural skills and
(03:42):
abilities, things that wedidn't have to learn how to do.
We're just really good at them.
And we just really enjoy them.
And I think that those are somepuzzle pieces that have been
given to us to be able todiscover what our purpose is.
And so for me, purpose is aboutmeaning.
It's about what am I here toaccomplish?
How am I here to serve the restof mankind?
(04:05):
And how do I help make adifference in the world around
me?
Janice Hostager (04:09):
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So I think there's a lot ofentrepreneurs that start their
businesses with that in mind.
Like they feel like they mightcome from um a corporate setting
or they may like switch careerslike you did and um just sort
of feel like they're not findingthat fulfillment in their nine
to five job, right?
(04:29):
Um but I think what oftenhappens with our entrepreneurs,
well, with myself for sure, isthat somewhere along the way it
starts feeling more like a jobagain.
Joe Denner (04:40):
Yeah.
Janice Hostager (04:41):
Like do you have you noticed that?
And why do you think thathappens?
Joe Denner (04:44):
Well, I think it happens for a couple of reasons.
I think, first of all, as youmentioned, sometimes
entrepreneurs just jump in,because that's what
entrepreneurs do.
They just kind of dive in andattack things.
And sometimes we get intosomething because of what we
were in.
For instance, it would havebeen really easy for me to start
a CPA firm, you know, to starta bookkeeping and accounting
(05:06):
firm because that's what I did.
I was a CPA.
But I didn't do that.
I stopped and I took a stepback.
And there were some thinking onthat.
But I do think, number one, isthat people get into what they
get into.
I'll call it by accident.
They just kind of fall into itbecause of where they have been
and they feel stuck.
They feel like this is whatI've been doing, and therefore
(05:27):
it's what I should continue todo because I'm good at it.
I think the other big thing isthat I didn't come up with this
phrase myself.
I got it from Michael Hyatt,and actually he got it from his
wife, Gail.
She said, when people losetheir why, they lose their way.
And I think that that is a bigreason that entrepreneurs
(05:48):
experience that is because theyfell into this thing and they
didn't really establish a clearpurpose and motivation and drive
for this very thing thatthey've chosen to do.
And so when they lose thatsense of why they're doing it,
why they got into it in thefirst place, and that can easily
happen to entrepreneurs whenyou start to really get into the
(06:10):
grind of building and growing abusiness.
Because as you know, you hitcertain plateaus and certain
places along the way in buildinga business.
I was with a company where wegrew from about a half a million
dollars a year to $20 million ayear in five years, and that
was a total rocket ride.
Wow.
Right.
And that happens to someentrepreneurs, not all of us,
(06:31):
but it does happen.
And when that happens, you caneasily get lost in the whirlwind
of activity and demands andrisks and challenges that
entrepreneurs face.
And so I think if you go intosomething and you're not
anchored and you don't stayanchored, it's very easy to
(06:51):
wonder, why did I do this in thefirst place?
What am I doing with my life?
And I think those kinds ofthings can easily happen.
Janice Hostager (06:58):
Mm-hmm.
Definitely have happened to me.
In fact, very recently.
I just needed you know, re-anchor myself. So I love that you put it in that way. Sofor us who sometimes get to
feel off track.
And I think you're right.
I think this happens when I'mjust stressed out, um, trying to
carry everything on my ownshoulders, but you just feel
like you're off track.
(07:18):
So what's the first step togetting realigned with your
purpose?
Joe Denner (07:23):
Yeah, getting realigned, first of all,
obviously is to make sure youunderstand your purpose.
If you don't, I think that'swhere you start, is to really
step back and say, wait aminute, let's back up the truck
here and let's really take agood look at why I'm at, where
I'm at on the map.
But if you already do know yourpurpose, I think it's a matter
of stepping back, getting quiet.
(07:45):
I know that can be really hardsometimes, but I think it's
about being intentional, aboutcreating some quiet space to
begin to reconnect, torediscover and realign.
Because here's what happens (07:57):
it isn't just that I get busy,
it's that I get distracted.
I take on additionalcommitments and obligations and
all these other things happen.
And all of a sudden I find thatit's not just that I'm busy.
I find that I'm my life and mywork are not aligned with my
(08:19):
sense of purpose and my sense ofwhat I was put here to do.
And so I think it's a matter ofstepping back, and it all
depends on how deeply you'vegotten off track.
Because if you've gotten wayoff track and you have gotten
yourself entangled with a lot ofdifferent commitments and with
a lot of different things where,hey, it's not just you, but
you've got other people that aredepending on you for something.
(08:41):
Now it may take a little morework.
But I think if you can stepback, re- first of all, make
sure you know what your purposeis.
If you do, reconnect with that,start to begin to look at what
do I need to do to realign mylife with that purpose?
How complicated is this?
And then begin to create aplan.
The plan might be very simple,make a few tweaks here and
(09:05):
there.
Maybe I need to hire somebodyto do that thing that I've
gotten myself stuck in mybusiness and I need to offload
that and delegate that.
Or maybe I've got to step backfrom some commitments either
within my business or within thecommunity that I have got
involved in because it's takenme off the track.
So those are just some reallybasic, simple steps that I would
(09:26):
encourage, and it's probably agood place to start.
Janice Hostager (09:30):
I love that.
So with business and lifepurpose, do they overlap or can
they be different?
So I feel like there was a timein my life where I felt really
called to stay home with mykids, right?
Joe Denner (09:42):
Sure, sure.
Janice Hostager (09:42):
So um, and I was able from there to launch a
small business and kind of gofrom there, but there was
definitely calling in my bones,in my soul that I knew that that
was what I needed to do at thattime.
Um so I felt like that was moreof a life purpose.
I've never really felt thatsense of being compelled with a
business goal.
Joe Denner (10:02):
Yeah.
Janice Hostager (10:02):
You know what I mean?
Joe Denner (10:02):
Yes.
A business purpose.
So are they different?
And how do you get to thatpoint where you feel like, okay,
this is exactly what I need todo?
That's a really good question.
I think that the way I wouldbegin answering that is by
saying that it is my personalconviction that we're all here
for a reason.
I do think that there areseasons of life that come and
(10:25):
seasons of life that can go.
And I believe that typicallythere is a main reason I'm here.
And I would hope that if you'regoing to have a career, that
your career could be alignedwith that purpose.
Otherwise, you're going to feelthat pull from one thing to the
next.
Now, it could be you feltreally called to be at home with
(10:47):
your kids.
You did something while youwere doing that, and maybe while
when that was over, all of asudden you're in a new season of
life and things changed.
So I do think that seasons comeand seasons go.
And I think that that'sperfectly fine.
But I, but it is a somewhat ofa personal conviction of mine
that overall there's thisoverarching purpose, the reason
(11:10):
why I was put here.
So I think if you are able toconnect with that, and if you're
able to align your career withthat, I think that's the ideal.
But a lot of people findthemselves in a place where the
ideal feels really out of reach.
And so I think that it's amatter of doing the best that
(11:30):
you can to align yourself.
But I do think it's alsopossible to go through stages of
life where you feel a differentsense of calling at different
times in your life.
And I do think that that's veryvalid and meaningful.
Janice Hostager (11:44):
Hmm.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
How can you tell the differencebetween just needing some rest
versus needing a change or whenyou're all out of alignment, for
example?
Joe Denner (11:55):
That's a good question.
Um I think again, it's a matterof stepping back.
There's there's something Iheard years ago from a guy named
John Maxwell.
You know, there's an old adagethat says that experience is the
best teacher.
And John actually adjusted thatslightly by saying evaluated
(12:16):
experience is the best teacher.
And if there's one thing Idon't think we do well in the
West, is we don't take time toreflect.
We don't take time to reallystep back and evaluate and look
at and analyze.
One of the things that my wifeand I do almost religiously is
(12:37):
every 90 days, we go away for anight.
Typically two days and onenight.
We go away and we do a 90-dayreview.
We look back over the last 90days and then we look ahead over
the next 90 days.
And we do that as a way ofcreating a regular rhythm in our
life and our marriage and forour family, of making sure that
(13:00):
we don't just all of a suddenwind up a year down the road and
we just say, What just happenedto us?
We're introducing a regularrhythm of stepping back and
reflecting.
And we've created eightdifferent categories that we
walk through and we think aboutour marriage, we think about our
family, we think about ourbusiness, we think about our
ministry life and our churchlife and our faith life, we
(13:23):
think about our health, ourfinances, and we go through all
these different categories andwe really do say, hey, what's
right and what's not right,what's in alignment and what's
out of alignment over the last90 days.
And so that's just a practicalexample of something that you
could do.
But if you find yourselffeeling tired, find yourself
(13:46):
feeling really stressed out, Ithink it's good to try to just
take, even if it's two hours orfour hours, to just get away,
get out of the office, get outof the house, go to a place
where you can get quiet and justbegin to reflect and to start
asking yourself questions.
Is my life aligned?
(14:07):
Am I have I made commitments tothings that are taking me off
the track of what I really feellike I'm called to do?
Whether that's be astay-at-home mom or be in a
particular kind of career or bemaking a certain contribution in
my local community, whateverthat might be, it's stepping
back, asking yourself questions,and taking the time to slow
(14:30):
down and think long enough tocome up with meaningful answers
to those questions.
Janice Hostager (14:37):
That is so good.
I mean, it's not a complexthing to do, right?
Just take some time off.
Joe Denner (14:42):
Yes.
Janice Hostager (14:43):
And I love-
Joe Denner (14:43):
That can be hard to do.
Janice Hostager (14:44):
It's hard, right?
Joe Denner (14:45):
That can be hard.
Janice Hostager (14:46):
Yes, yes.
It's been a struggle I have hadforever.
I think it's that I've gottento the point where I feel guilty
about taking a day off,especially because I have a team
that's still working.
You know, I feel a little bitlike I should be doing my part
here or something.
But yeah, I definitely feellike I don't do that enough.
And every year I get a brandnew journal and I start out
(15:09):
really well for the first sixweeks, and then it gets
sporadic, and then by Octoberit's just not happening anymore.
Joe Denner (15:17):
So um that's why for us that 90-day check-in has
been so important because it'seasy for 10 months to fly by.
Janice Hostager (15:24):
Yes.
Right?
Yeah, yeah.
And you have each other to holdyourself accountable.
So yeah.
Joe Denner (15:29):
That is helpful.
And but I want to go back tosomething you said, Janice.
You said that you feel almostirresponsible taking that time
away because I've got this, I'vegot a team.
I feel guilt.
Janice Hostager (15:40):
Yeah.
Joe Denner (15:40):
And I think that's something that leaders need to
recognize that if all I do iswork in the business, I'm not
really leading the team the wayI need to lead the team.
I need time to work on thebusiness.
And by the way, in my strongopinion, part of working on the
business is working on myself asthe leader because the team
(16:03):
runs at the speed of the leader,as someone once said, and I
agree with that wholeheartedly.
Janice Hostager (16:08):
Yeah, yeah.
And I know that cognitively,it's just getting past that and
saying, "Okay, you know, I'mgonna take a Friday off.
I'm just gonna wander around."And then I find myself like,
well, what should I do today?
Kind of.
But so I love that you havesome intention behind it, right?
Because you it's it's like,okay, uh on 90 days, we're going
(16:30):
to XYZ location.
We are going to talk about thisand this and this.
And at the end of it, we'llhave not only relaxation, but
we'll have some time togetherfor your marriage.
And also um, you'll have up aplan and you'll have that time
of reflection.
I think that's a great idea.
Joe Denner (16:47):
Yeah.
So it's been a it's been anamazingly rich experience for
us.
Janice Hostager (16:51):
How many, how long have you done that?
Joe Denner (16:54):
Somewhere between 15 and 20 years, we've been doing
this.
And I think in 15 or 20 years,we might have missed doing it
once or twice.
And it hasn't always looked thesame.
Sometimes we've had toliterally just lock ourselves
away in our bedroom, you know,until the kids, hey, for the
next two days, we're not here.
(17:16):
Other times we've taken a tripto another city.
So it's looked very differentat times, but I would say in the
last 15 to 20 years, we've onlymissed once or twice.
Janice Hostager (17:27):
That is great.
That's awesome.
Joe Denner (17:29):
Yeah.
Janice Hostager (17:30):
That is a great way of making time for that.
But what are the specificexercises that people can use to
kind of clarify their next stepin their life?
So do you have just a checklistthat you use, or do you have
just some open-ended questions?
Joe Denner (17:42):
I have a three-step guide, which I'd love to offer
to your folks.
It's a three-step guide onliving the life you always
wanted.
And it's very simple.
Three simple steps.
The first step is to take someassessments.
I'm a big believer inassessments.
Most of them are veryinexpensive and very accessible
to the public.
(18:03):
One is offered by the Galluporganization and called the
Clifton StrengthsFinder.
Another one, which is muchnewer on the market in the last
four to five years, is from theTable Group and a guy named
Patrick Lincioni.
And it's called the WorkingGenius.
They're both very simple.
The working genius, especially,is extremely easy to
(18:25):
understand.
And the reason that I useassessments is because part of
connecting with your purpose isbeing able to step back and
really understand what do I dowell?
And there's a differencebetween what you do well
naturally and what you'velearned to do well.
I call them innate talents andacquired skills, right?
(18:48):
Your innate talents are justthe things nobody had to teach
you how to do, nobody had toshow you how to do this, nobody
had to show you how to have fundoing this.
You just love it.
Time flies by when you're doingat it.
And if you've had theopportunity to give time and
energy to it, you've developedsome functional skills around it
that are really, reallyvaluable.
(19:09):
And so I call that living in aplace where you're successful
and satisfied.
Janice Hostager (19:15):
Okay.
Joe Denner (19:15):
So that's when you're operating in your very
natural ways of doing things.
And then we've got our acquiredskills, the things we've
learned how to do, whether it'sfix a car, write a program,
write a book, fix the plumbing,give a public speech.
And there's all kinds ofdifferent things.
And they both can go hand inhand.
But sometimes, like I said, weget stuck on a track where we've
(19:37):
learned and become competent atthings that are out of
alignment with what we arenaturally good at.
Whether it's because we kind ofjust went down this track in
school and we graduated with adegree and figure, well, that's
the career I got to pursue.
And we just got stuck goingdown a road or we just got
distracted and off the tracksomewhere along the way.
(19:58):
But reconnecting with ourinnate talents, the things we
were just creating, my God, todo and do well, I think is a
great place to start.
The second thing is to get, sothat's the first piece of data.
The second kind of group ofdata is to just ask some of
those reflective questions.
(20:18):
What am I good at?
And then go to your spouse, goto your kids, go to your
friends, go to your people inyour community at other
organizations that youcontribute at.
Also, if you're a person offaith, I really recommend get
quiet and get alone with God andsay, what am I good at?
What am I here to do?
What gives me joy?
Where do I add value to theworld around me?
(20:40):
And I get energy and life fromthat.
I was thinking about it theother day because I think
sometimes when we think aboutdoing what you love, it can
sound very selfish.
Like, I just want to do what Ilike.
I just want to do what I love.
And I had a big aha moment justyesterday.
I think it was literally justyesterday.
(21:02):
And I thought, when I'm doingwhat I love, I'm often going to
be doing what I'm most talentedat and where I bring the most
value.
And where am I bringing thatvalue?
I'm bringing that value toother people.
I'm not just doing, I don'tjust do executive coaching and
business consulting just becauseI like it and just because I
(21:23):
can make money doing it.
I do it because I love it and Ilove seeing other people
benefit from the work that I do.
So I think while it'd be easyto think doing what I love
sounds really selfish, I thinkdoing what you love is just
discovering what you were madeto do.
And now doing that for thebenefit of others around you,
(21:46):
whether that's locally orglobally, I believe again, you
were created on purpose and fora purpose.
And so if you can connect withthat through self-reflection,
getting your family involved,getting your friends involved,
and spending time alone with theLord, I think that's great.
And then the third thing isreally assembling all the pieces
(22:08):
of this puzzle and beginning tolook for where are the
connections, where are theoverlaps.
It's almost like making alittle Venn diagram, if you know
what that is, like taking thesecircles and figuring out where
do the circles overlap.
Those places of intersectionare to me where the puzzle
starts to come into view.
(22:29):
You started off with all thesepuzzle pieces, and as you began
to put them together, it's allof a sudden like, oh no, this
piece connects with that piece.
And I think once you startdoing that, all of a sudden the
picture starts to emerge.
But again, Janice, like yousaid, it can be hard to take the
time to do this.
(22:49):
But I really do believe withoutthe intentionality and without
the commitment to take the time,you won't discover it, you
won't connect with it, and youwon't really live the life that
you were intended for.
And the world will miss out onwhat you have to offer.
And I think that's what this isreally ultimately all about.
Janice Hostager (23:11):
And it really changes your definition of
success that way too, doesn'tit?
Joe Denner (23:15):
Absolutely.
Janice Hostager (23:16):
Yeah.
Joe Denner (23:16):
Yeah.
Janice Hostager (23:16):
Yeah.
Joe Denner (23:17):
My success is is rooted in the success that
others derive from how I helpserve them.
Janice Hostager (23:25):
And it leads to burnout if you don't.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I would imagine you see that,especially if you do executive
coaching.
You're gonna run intodifficulty.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe Denner (23:35):
I see people who get disconnected and it's not a
good picture.
Janice Hostager (23:38):
Right.
And what a blessing that a lotof us have the opportunity to
find something that we love anddo that thing rather than having
to just take a job, right?
So you've convinced me now.
I have Patrick Lencioni's booksitting on my bookshelf here.
Joe Denner (23:52):
Okay.
Janice Hostager (23:53):
The 6 Types of Working Genius.
Oh yeah?
And I've never opened it.
Isn't that terrible?
It's okay.
But it's recommended to me.
So I think I might just have togo through that and see.
Joe Denner (24:03):
It's worth it.
It's very worthwhile.
Janice Hostager (24:05):
If everybody that's listening today, if they
could just remember one thingfrom today's conversation, what
do you hope that would be?
Joe Denner (24:13):
I really do hope people will remember you were
created on purpose and with apurpose.
You're not an accident.
You're not you're not here bymistake, no matter what anybody
else might tell you.
And because of that, and if youwere able to connect with that,
not only will you live a lifethat you won't regret, but the
(24:35):
world around you will greatlybenefit from it.
Because I don't believe we wereput here for ourselves.
I believe we were put here forothers.
And if they can connect withthat truth and that reality, I
believe it will compel them togo down the path that I'm
encouraging them to go down andmake those discoveries and
become the person that they wereintended to be by God.
Janice Hostager (24:58):
100% agree with you.
Thank you so much, Joe.
Where can people find out moreabout you?
Joe Denner (25:04):
Yeah, my website is joedenner.com.
It's a great place to start.
Also, I'll give you a link thatyou can put in the show notes
that will give you access to myfree Three-Step Guide to Living
the Life You Always Wanted.
And that's a great way tostart.
Janice Hostager (25:19):
That sounds perfect.
Thank you so much, Joe.
I definitely am going to bethinking hard about all of this.
Well, great and applying thisto my life as well.
Joe Denner (25:27):
So thanks for the privilege of being with you
today.
I appreciate the time.
Janice Hostager (25:31):
I hope my conversation today with Joe
makes you feel like you knowwhat next step to take to feel a
little more aligned or a littlemore focused.
For more information aboutanything we talked about today,
visit myweeklymarketing.comforward slash one three five one
thirty five.
Thank you so, so much forjoining me today.
I'll see you next time.
Bye for now.
I'm Janice Hostager.
After three decades in themarketing business and many
years of being an entrepreneur,I've learned a thing or two
about marketing.
Join me as we talk aboutmarketing, small business, and
life in between.
Welcome to My Weekly Marketing.
Have you ever hit a point inyour business where you catch
(00:30):
yourself thinking, wait, is thisall there is?
You're super busy, you'rebooked up, you're maybe even
successful on paper, butsomething still feels a little
off.
You built the business, youhave the brand, you have the
long to-do list, but somewherealong the way you feel like
you've lost why you do it.
Maybe it's that moment that youhit a big goal but felt nothing
(00:54):
but exhaustion.
Or maybe like me, you have aconstant, ever-moving horizon
that you can't seem to everreach.
Maybe by the time you sat downto work on your dream business,
you realize it didn't feel likeyour dream anymore.
It might be that you believe,like I do, that God put you here
on this earth for a reason, butyou can't seem to figure out
what that reason is.
If you've been craving moremeaning, more clarity, or just a
(01:16):
sense of direction, today'sepisode is for you.
My guest Joe Denner helpsentrepreneurs and business
leaders figure out their truepurpose, not just their careers,
but in their lives too.
Because when your businessaligns with your purpose, things
start to click again.
You stop spinning your wheelsand start feeling fulfilled by
what you're building.
So if you've been wonderingwhat's next for you, or you're
(01:39):
feeling that quiet little tugthat there's something more,
grab your coffee and lean in.
This conversation might be thespark that you've been waiting
for.
Well, hey, Joe.
Thanks for being on the showtoday.
Joe Denner (01:51):
Yeah.
I'm glad to be here, Janice.
Janice Hostager (01:53):
You talk a lot about helping people find their
purpose beyond their career.
So, what led you to start doingthat kind of work?
Joe Denner (02:01):
Yeah, probably back in the early to mid-2000s, I was
in a career I loved.
I was enjoying myself, but webegan to think about how things
could be different for ourfamily.
We had chosen to home educateour kids and were looking for
ways to get me more involvedwith that.
And that really led us to beginexploring a career change.
(02:22):
And so as I did that, I beganto think about what do I want to
do?
I really didn't know.
I didn't have any ideas aboutwhat I wanted to do.
What I did know was that Ididn't like taxes and I was in
accounting and finance at thetime.
And I thought, I don't think Iwant to do a, I don't think I
want to start my own CPA firm.
And so that led us to a bigsearch and discovery.
(02:44):
And in that process, I attendeda weekend workshop and I had
involvement with some otherthings that really got me
thinking about why am I here?
What's my purpose for being onthis planet?
And that's really how it allstarted was beginning to explore
a new career.
And I felt like it, that shouldbe rooted in something more
(03:04):
than just what do I like to door just where can I make some
money?
So that's really what startedthe journey for me.
Janice Hostager (03:11):
Gotcha.
Gotcha.
How do you define purpose?
Because it's one of those wordsI think we hear all the time,
but don't really always know howto apply it in our everyday
life.
Joe Denner (03:20):
Yeah, to me, it's a sense of calling.
It's a sense of why am I here?
What have I been put on thisplanet to do?
What am I here to accomplish?
I'm I've been put here for areason.
I tell my kids all the time,you were created on purpose and
with a purpose.
And I really do believe that wehave certain natural skills and
(03:42):
abilities, things that wedidn't have to learn how to do.
We're just really good at them.
And we just really enjoy them.
And I think that those are somepuzzle pieces that have been
given to us to be able todiscover what our purpose is.
And so for me, purpose is aboutmeaning.
It's about what am I here toaccomplish?
How am I here to serve the restof mankind?
(04:05):
And how do I help make adifference in the world around
me?
Janice Hostager (04:09):
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So I think there's a lot ofentrepreneurs that start their
businesses with that in mind.
Like they feel like they mightcome from um a corporate setting
or they may like switch careerslike you did and um just sort
of feel like they're not findingthat fulfillment in their nine
to five job, right?
(04:29):
Um but I think what oftenhappens with our entrepreneurs,
well, with myself for sure, isthat somewhere along the way it
starts feeling more like a jobagain.
Joe Denner (04:40):
Yeah.
Janice Hostager (04:41):
Like do you have you noticed that?
And why do you think thathappens?
Joe Denner (04:44):
Well, I think it happens for a couple of reasons.
I think, first of all, as youmentioned, sometimes
entrepreneurs just jump in,because that's what
entrepreneurs do.
They just kind of dive in andattack things.
And sometimes we get intosomething because of what we
were in.
For instance, it would havebeen really easy for me to start
a CPA firm, you know, to starta bookkeeping and accounting
(05:06):
firm because that's what I did.
I was a CPA.
But I didn't do that.
I stopped and I took a stepback.
And there were some thinking onthat.
But I do think, number one, isthat people get into what they
get into.
I'll call it by accident.
They just kind of fall into itbecause of where they have been
and they feel stuck.
They feel like this is whatI've been doing, and therefore
(05:27):
it's what I should continue todo because I'm good at it.
I think the other big thing isthat I didn't come up with this
phrase myself.
I got it from Michael Hyatt,and actually he got it from his
wife, Gail.
She said, when people losetheir why, they lose their way.
And I think that that is a bigreason that entrepreneurs
(05:48):
experience that is because theyfell into this thing and they
didn't really establish a clearpurpose and motivation and drive
for this very thing thatthey've chosen to do.
And so when they lose thatsense of why they're doing it,
why they got into it in thefirst place, and that can easily
happen to entrepreneurs whenyou start to really get into the
(06:10):
grind of building and growing abusiness.
Because as you know, you hitcertain plateaus and certain
places along the way in buildinga business.
I was with a company where wegrew from about a half a million
dollars a year to $20 million ayear in five years, and that
was a total rocket ride.
Wow.
Right.
And that happens to someentrepreneurs, not all of us,
(06:31):
but it does happen.
And when that happens, you caneasily get lost in the whirlwind
of activity and demands andrisks and challenges that
entrepreneurs face.
And so I think if you go intosomething and you're not
anchored and you don't stayanchored, it's very easy to
(06:51):
wonder, why did I do this in thefirst place?
What am I doing with my life?
And I think those kinds ofthings can easily happen.
Janice Hostager (06:58):
Mm-hmm.
Definitely have happened to me.
In fact, very recently.
I just needed you know, re-anchor myself. So I love that you put it in that way. Sofor us who sometimes get to
feel off track.
And I think you're right.
I think this happens when I'mjust stressed out, um, trying to
carry everything on my ownshoulders, but you just feel
like you're off track.
(07:18):
So what's the first step togetting realigned with your
purpose?
Joe Denner (07:23):
Yeah, getting realigned, first of all,
obviously is to make sure youunderstand your purpose.
If you don't, I think that'swhere you start, is to really
step back and say, wait aminute, let's back up the truck
here and let's really take agood look at why I'm at, where
I'm at on the map.
But if you already do know yourpurpose, I think it's a matter
of stepping back, getting quiet.
(07:45):
I know that can be really hardsometimes, but I think it's
about being intentional, aboutcreating some quiet space to
begin to reconnect, torediscover and realign.
Because here's what happens (07:57):
it isn't just that I get busy,
it's that I get distracted.
I take on additionalcommitments and obligations and
all these other things happen.
And all of a sudden I find thatit's not just that I'm busy.
I find that I'm my life and mywork are not aligned with my
(08:19):
sense of purpose and my sense ofwhat I was put here to do.
And so I think it's a matter ofstepping back, and it all
depends on how deeply you'vegotten off track.
Because if you've gotten wayoff track and you have gotten
yourself entangled with a lot ofdifferent commitments and with
a lot of different things where,hey, it's not just you, but
you've got other people that aredepending on you for something.
(08:41):
Now it may take a little morework.
But I think if you can stepback, re- first of all, make
sure you know what your purposeis.
If you do, reconnect with that,start to begin to look at what
do I need to do to realign mylife with that purpose?
How complicated is this?
And then begin to create aplan.
The plan might be very simple,make a few tweaks here and
(09:05):
there.
Maybe I need to hire somebodyto do that thing that I've
gotten myself stuck in mybusiness and I need to offload
that and delegate that.
Or maybe I've got to step backfrom some commitments either
within my business or within thecommunity that I have got
involved in because it's takenme off the track.
So those are just some reallybasic, simple steps that I would
(09:26):
encourage, and it's probably agood place to start.
Janice Hostager (09:30):
I love that.
So with business and lifepurpose, do they overlap or can
they be different?
So I feel like there was a timein my life where I felt really
called to stay home with mykids, right?
Joe Denner (09:42):
Sure, sure.
Janice Hostager (09:42):
So um, and I was able from there to launch a
small business and kind of gofrom there, but there was
definitely calling in my bones,in my soul that I knew that that
was what I needed to do at thattime.
Um so I felt like that was moreof a life purpose.
I've never really felt thatsense of being compelled with a
business goal.
Joe Denner (10:02):
Yeah.
Janice Hostager (10:02):
You know what I mean?
Joe Denner (10:02):
Yes.
A business purpose.
So are they different?
And how do you get to thatpoint where you feel like, okay,
this is exactly what I need todo?
That's a really good question.
I think that the way I wouldbegin answering that is by
saying that it is my personalconviction that we're all here
for a reason.
I do think that there areseasons of life that come and
(10:25):
seasons of life that can go.
And I believe that typicallythere is a main reason I'm here.
And I would hope that if you'regoing to have a career, that
your career could be alignedwith that purpose.
Otherwise, you're going to feelthat pull from one thing to the
next.
Now, it could be you feltreally called to be at home with
(10:47):
your kids.
You did something while youwere doing that, and maybe while
when that was over, all of asudden you're in a new season of
life and things changed.
So I do think that seasons comeand seasons go.
And I think that that'sperfectly fine.
But I, but it is a somewhat ofa personal conviction of mine
that overall there's thisoverarching purpose, the reason
(11:10):
why I was put here.
So I think if you are able toconnect with that, and if you're
able to align your career withthat, I think that's the ideal.
But a lot of people findthemselves in a place where the
ideal feels really out of reach.
And so I think that it's amatter of doing the best that
(11:30):
you can to align yourself.
But I do think it's alsopossible to go through stages of
life where you feel a differentsense of calling at different
times in your life.
And I do think that that's veryvalid and meaningful.
Janice Hostager (11:44):
Hmm.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
How can you tell the differencebetween just needing some rest
versus needing a change or whenyou're all out of alignment, for
example?
Joe Denner (11:55):
That's a good question.
Um I think again, it's a matterof stepping back.
There's there's something Iheard years ago from a guy named
John Maxwell.
You know, there's an old adagethat says that experience is the
best teacher.
And John actually adjusted thatslightly by saying evaluated
(12:16):
experience is the best teacher.
And if there's one thing Idon't think we do well in the
West, is we don't take time toreflect.
We don't take time to reallystep back and evaluate and look
at and analyze.
One of the things that my wifeand I do almost religiously is
(12:37):
every 90 days, we go away for anight.
Typically two days and onenight.
We go away and we do a 90-dayreview.
We look back over the last 90days and then we look ahead over
the next 90 days.
And we do that as a way ofcreating a regular rhythm in our
life and our marriage and forour family, of making sure that
(13:00):
we don't just all of a suddenwind up a year down the road and
we just say, What just happenedto us?
We're introducing a regularrhythm of stepping back and
reflecting.
And we've created eightdifferent categories that we
walk through and we think aboutour marriage, we think about our
family, we think about ourbusiness, we think about our
ministry life and our churchlife and our faith life, we
(13:23):
think about our health, ourfinances, and we go through all
these different categories andwe really do say, hey, what's
right and what's not right,what's in alignment and what's
out of alignment over the last90 days.
And so that's just a practicalexample of something that you
could do.
But if you find yourselffeeling tired, find yourself
(13:46):
feeling really stressed out, Ithink it's good to try to just
take, even if it's two hours orfour hours, to just get away,
get out of the office, get outof the house, go to a place
where you can get quiet and justbegin to reflect and to start
asking yourself questions.
Is my life aligned?
(14:07):
Am I have I made commitments tothings that are taking me off
the track of what I really feellike I'm called to do?
Whether that's be astay-at-home mom or be in a
particular kind of career or bemaking a certain contribution in
my local community, whateverthat might be, it's stepping
back, asking yourself questions,and taking the time to slow
(14:30):
down and think long enough tocome up with meaningful answers
to those questions.
Janice Hostager (14:37):
That is so good.
I mean, it's not a complexthing to do, right?
Just take some time off.
Joe Denner (14:42):
Yes.
Janice Hostager (14:43):
And I love-
Joe Denner (14:43):
That can be hard to do.
Janice Hostager (14:44):
It's hard, right?
Joe Denner (14:45):
That can be hard.
Janice Hostager (14:46):
Yes, yes.
It's been a struggle I have hadforever.
I think it's that I've gottento the point where I feel guilty
about taking a day off,especially because I have a team
that's still working.
You know, I feel a little bitlike I should be doing my part
here or something.
But yeah, I definitely feellike I don't do that enough.
And every year I get a brandnew journal and I start out
(15:09):
really well for the first sixweeks, and then it gets
sporadic, and then by Octoberit's just not happening anymore.
Joe Denner (15:17):
So um that's why for us that 90-day check-in has
been so important because it'seasy for 10 months to fly by.
Janice Hostager (15:24):
Yes.
Right?
Yeah, yeah.
And you have each other to holdyourself accountable.
So yeah.
Joe Denner (15:29):
That is helpful.
And but I want to go back tosomething you said, Janice.
You said that you feel almostirresponsible taking that time
away because I've got this, I'vegot a team.
I feel guilt.
Janice Hostager (15:40):
Yeah.
Joe Denner (15:40):
And I think that's something that leaders need to
recognize that if all I do iswork in the business, I'm not
really leading the team the wayI need to lead the team.
I need time to work on thebusiness.
And by the way, in my strongopinion, part of working on the
business is working on myself asthe leader because the team
(16:03):
runs at the speed of the leader,as someone once said, and I
agree with that wholeheartedly.
Janice Hostager (16:08):
Yeah, yeah.
And I know that cognitively,it's just getting past that and
saying, "Okay, you know, I'mgonna take a Friday off.
I'm just gonna wander around."And then I find myself like,
well, what should I do today?
Kind of.
But so I love that you havesome intention behind it, right?
Because you it's it's like,okay, uh on 90 days, we're going
(16:30):
to XYZ location.
We are going to talk about thisand this and this.
And at the end of it, we'llhave not only relaxation, but
we'll have some time togetherfor your marriage.
And also um, you'll have up aplan and you'll have that time
of reflection.
I think that's a great idea.
Joe Denner (16:47):
Yeah.
So it's been a it's been anamazingly rich experience for
us.
Janice Hostager (16:51):
How many, how long have you done that?
Joe Denner (16:54):
Somewhere between 15 and 20 years, we've been doing
this.
And I think in 15 or 20 years,we might have missed doing it
once or twice.
And it hasn't always looked thesame.
Sometimes we've had toliterally just lock ourselves
away in our bedroom, you know,until the kids, hey, for the
next two days, we're not here.
(17:16):
Other times we've taken a tripto another city.
So it's looked very differentat times, but I would say in the
last 15 to 20 years, we've onlymissed once or twice.
Janice Hostager (17:27):
That is great.
That's awesome.
Joe Denner (17:29):
Yeah.
Janice Hostager (17:30):
That is a great way of making time for that.
But what are the specificexercises that people can use to
kind of clarify their next stepin their life?
So do you have just a checklistthat you use, or do you have
just some open-ended questions?
Joe Denner (17:42):
I have a three-step guide, which I'd love to offer
to your folks.
It's a three-step guide onliving the life you always
wanted.
And it's very simple.
Three simple steps.
The first step is to take someassessments.
I'm a big believer inassessments.
Most of them are veryinexpensive and very accessible
to the public.
(18:03):
One is offered by the Galluporganization and called the
Clifton StrengthsFinder.
Another one, which is muchnewer on the market in the last
four to five years, is from theTable Group and a guy named
Patrick Lincioni.
And it's called the WorkingGenius.
They're both very simple.
The working genius, especially,is extremely easy to
(18:25):
understand.
And the reason that I useassessments is because part of
connecting with your purpose isbeing able to step back and
really understand what do I dowell?
And there's a differencebetween what you do well
naturally and what you'velearned to do well.
I call them innate talents andacquired skills, right?
(18:48):
Your innate talents are justthe things nobody had to teach
you how to do, nobody had toshow you how to do this, nobody
had to show you how to have fundoing this.
You just love it.
Time flies by when you're doingat it.
And if you've had theopportunity to give time and
energy to it, you've developedsome functional skills around it
that are really, reallyvaluable.
(19:09):
And so I call that living in aplace where you're successful
and satisfied.
Janice Hostager (19:15):
Okay.
Joe Denner (19:15):
So that's when you're operating in your very
natural ways of doing things.
And then we've got our acquiredskills, the things we've
learned how to do, whether it'sfix a car, write a program,
write a book, fix the plumbing,give a public speech.
And there's all kinds ofdifferent things.
And they both can go hand inhand.
But sometimes, like I said, weget stuck on a track where we've
(19:37):
learned and become competent atthings that are out of
alignment with what we arenaturally good at.
Whether it's because we kind ofjust went down this track in
school and we graduated with adegree and figure, well, that's
the career I got to pursue.
And we just got stuck goingdown a road or we just got
distracted and off the tracksomewhere along the way.
(19:58):
But reconnecting with ourinnate talents, the things we
were just creating, my God, todo and do well, I think is a
great place to start.
The second thing is to get, sothat's the first piece of data.
The second kind of group ofdata is to just ask some of
those reflective questions.
(20:18):
What am I good at?
And then go to your spouse, goto your kids, go to your
friends, go to your people inyour community at other
organizations that youcontribute at.
Also, if you're a person offaith, I really recommend get
quiet and get alone with God andsay, what am I good at?
What am I here to do?
What gives me joy?
Where do I add value to theworld around me?
(20:40):
And I get energy and life fromthat.
I was thinking about it theother day because I think
sometimes when we think aboutdoing what you love, it can
sound very selfish.
Like, I just want to do what Ilike.
I just want to do what I love.
And I had a big aha moment justyesterday.
I think it was literally justyesterday.
(21:02):
And I thought, when I'm doingwhat I love, I'm often going to
be doing what I'm most talentedat and where I bring the most
value.
And where am I bringing thatvalue?
I'm bringing that value toother people.
I'm not just doing, I don'tjust do executive coaching and
business consulting just becauseI like it and just because I
(21:23):
can make money doing it.
I do it because I love it and Ilove seeing other people
benefit from the work that I do.
So I think while it'd be easyto think doing what I love
sounds really selfish, I thinkdoing what you love is just
discovering what you were madeto do.
And now doing that for thebenefit of others around you,
(21:46):
whether that's locally orglobally, I believe again, you
were created on purpose and fora purpose.
And so if you can connect withthat through self-reflection,
getting your family involved,getting your friends involved,
and spending time alone with theLord, I think that's great.
And then the third thing isreally assembling all the pieces
(22:08):
of this puzzle and beginning tolook for where are the
connections, where are theoverlaps.
It's almost like making alittle Venn diagram, if you know
what that is, like taking thesecircles and figuring out where
do the circles overlap.
Those places of intersectionare to me where the puzzle
starts to come into view.
(22:29):
You started off with all thesepuzzle pieces, and as you began
to put them together, it's allof a sudden like, oh no, this
piece connects with that piece.
And I think once you startdoing that, all of a sudden the
picture starts to emerge.
But again, Janice, like yousaid, it can be hard to take the
time to do this.
(22:49):
But I really do believe withoutthe intentionality and without
the commitment to take the time,you won't discover it, you
won't connect with it, and youwon't really live the life that
you were intended for.
And the world will miss out onwhat you have to offer.
And I think that's what this isreally ultimately all about.
Janice Hostager (23:11):
And it really changes your definition of
success that way too, doesn'tit?
Joe Denner (23:15):
Absolutely.
Janice Hostager (23:16):
Yeah.
Joe Denner (23:16):
Yeah.
Janice Hostager (23:16):
Yeah.
Joe Denner (23:17):
My success is is rooted in the success that
others derive from how I helpserve them.
Janice Hostager (23:25):
And it leads to burnout if you don't.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I would imagine you see that,especially if you do executive
coaching.
You're gonna run intodifficulty.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Joe Denner (23:35):
I see people who get disconnected and it's not a
good picture.
Janice Hostager (23:38):
Right.
And what a blessing that a lotof us have the opportunity to
find something that we love anddo that thing rather than having
to just take a job, right?
So you've convinced me now.
I have Patrick Lencioni's booksitting on my bookshelf here.
Joe Denner (23:52):
Okay.
Janice Hostager (23:53):
The 6 Types of Working Genius.
Oh yeah?
And I've never opened it.
Isn't that terrible?
It's okay.
But it's recommended to me.
So I think I might just have togo through that and see.
Joe Denner (24:03):
It's worth it.
It's very worthwhile.
Janice Hostager (24:05):
If everybody that's listening today, if they
could just remember one thingfrom today's conversation, what
do you hope that would be?
Joe Denner (24:13):
I really do hope people will remember you were
created on purpose and with apurpose.
You're not an accident.
You're not you're not here bymistake, no matter what anybody
else might tell you.
And because of that, and if youwere able to connect with that,
not only will you live a lifethat you won't regret, but the
(24:35):
world around you will greatlybenefit from it.
Because I don't believe we wereput here for ourselves.
I believe we were put here forothers.
And if they can connect withthat truth and that reality, I
believe it will compel them togo down the path that I'm
encouraging them to go down andmake those discoveries and
become the person that they wereintended to be by God.
Janice Hostager (24:58):
100% agree with you.
Thank you so much, Joe.
Where can people find out moreabout you?
Joe Denner (25:04):
Yeah, my website is joedenner.com.
It's a great place to start.
Also, I'll give you a link thatyou can put in the show notes
that will give you access to myfree Three-Step Guide to Living
the Life You Always Wanted.
And that's a great way tostart.
Janice Hostager (25:19):
That sounds perfect.
Thank you so much, Joe.
I definitely am going to bethinking hard about all of this.
Well, great and applying thisto my life as well.
Joe Denner (25:27):
So thanks for the privilege of being with you
today.
I appreciate the time.
Janice Hostager (25:31):
I hope my conversation today with Joe
makes you feel like you knowwhat next step to take to feel a
little more aligned or a littlemore focused.
For more information aboutanything we talked about today,
visit myweeklymarketing.comforward slash one three five one
thirty five.
Thank you so, so much forjoining me today.
I'll see you next time.
Bye for now.
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Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.