Are you a soon to be mom, a seasoned mother, or simply interested in the world of birth? You’re in the right place!
In this episode, we discuss:
- Victoria's positive freebirth story
- Her experience with the freebirth society's matribirth midwifery institute
- ….and a whole lot more!
Additional Resources you’ll LOVE…
If you are ready to prepare for an autonomous birth experience, where you’re respected as the authority over your body and your baby… regardless of where you plan on birthing -
CLICK HERE for 10% off the MyAutonomous Birth self-paced, online course!
Not sure where to start? I’ve got you covered! Check out my FREE resource, 37 Questions to Ask Your Care Provider. Whether you’re interviewing new providers or have already established care, this FREE resource offers guidance on important topics to discuss with your provider.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Victoria (00:00):
There was some attempt by one of our fellow students
to kind of rally some supportfor a woman who had lost her
baby in a free birth, who hadbeen part of the program, and
that was responded to by like no, that would be rude, like that
(00:22):
would be invasive, why would youdo that?
And it was just really bizarreafter we had been taking classes
about supporting women throughlaws and like, well, what else
are you going to do?
Are you just going to brushthat under the rug?
Like is that how you actuallydeal with supporting a woman
(00:43):
with loss?
It was uh, so it felt veryhypocritical and not like sound
logic.
Angela (00:51):
It just started to feel like maybe what I was being
taught was not actually beingembodied by this woman for sure
maybe what your husband said atthe beginning right like, let's
go back to listening to ourhusbands, like all of us all of
our husbands, I think, said thisat the beginning of the program
also and I actually, on thatnote, that's been a an
interesting journey that I'vegone through recently is really
(01:14):
understanding what it looks liketo be a respectful wife,
because I think a lot of oursocietal programming does really
push this.
Victoria (01:23):
Like independent woman , vibe and like feminist, you
got this girl and I really thinkit's toxic for relationships.
Personally, maybe it's just theage and maturity that I'm at,
but it hasn't worked for me andmy relationship and it's really
illuminated, you know, areasthat I'm just trying to control
(01:44):
really, and not surrendering.
Like speaking of surrenderingand birth, it's like
surrendering is a whole thing,it's not, it's not just in one
area of your life.
And I was taken aback a coupleof times.
I heard these women talk abouttheir husbands in a little bit
of a disrespectful way was myimpression, and yeah, so it's.
(02:10):
I think it's interesting thatmaybe I was drawn to that at
that time because I was somewhatin alignment with it.
So, yeah, starting to breakfree from that rebellious nature
was a huge part of my healing,of coming out of this program,
and something that I did noticewas being emulated by these
women.
But that call really reallykind of sobered me up, you could
(02:35):
say.
Angela (02:37):
I'm Angela and I'm a certified birth photographer,
experienced doula, childbirtheducator and your host here on
the my Maine Birth podcast.
This is a space where we sharethe real-life stories of
families and their unique birthexperiences in the beautiful
state of Maine, from our state'sbiggest hospitals to birth
center births and home births.
(02:58):
Every birth story deserves tobe heard and celebrated.
Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother or simply
interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
Welcome back.
You're listening to episode 125of my Main Birth.
(03:18):
This week.
I'm doing something a littlebit different and sharing some
of the stories and experiencesof some of the other women that
I met while in the Free BirthSociety's MatriBirth Midwifery
Institute, which I startedaround this time last year.
The purpose of these episodesis not to criticize or dismiss
the choice of a growing numberof women to have free births.
(03:39):
Instead, I want to highlightthe stark difference between the
beautiful and powerful idea ofbirth freedom and the dangerous
ideologies that are promoted bythe free birth society.
There's a lot of misinformationand manipulation that's
happened in this community and Ithink it's important to shed
light on the realities behindthis movement.
(04:00):
Today's birth story guest isVictoria, and she is here to
share all about her beautifulfree birth and her experience
with the Match-A-Birth MidwiferyInstitute.
Hi Victoria, welcome to my MainBirth.
Hey, so to get started, wouldyou share a little bit about you
and your family?
Victoria (04:21):
Yeah, so I live in Gatineau, quebec, which is right
along the river between Quebecand Ontario.
Me and my partner are actuallyfrom the English side, but we've
been living over here for thepast seven years.
It's really beautiful in thisarea.
There's really amazing natureand we don't quite have the
(04:43):
mountains of Maine but we have,like, the Gadno Hills and it's a
really beautiful area.
So we're here with our two dogs, a border collie and a husky,
and our new baby boy, chael, andyeah amazing.
Angela (04:59):
Yeah, oh, that sounds beautiful.
Victoria (05:03):
Yeah, it's wonderful.
Angela (05:04):
Now jumping into birth.
What were some of your views onbirth when you were younger and
growing up?
Victoria (05:12):
I don't think I really thought very much about birth.
I've been trying to reflect onthis a bit and I didn't really
have any strong stories one wayor another growing up.
I mean I had heard that my momdidn't have an epidural stories
one way or another growing up.
I mean I had heard that my momdidn't have an epidural and I
was like, hey, that's prettycool.
(05:32):
Like definitely have alwaysbeen attracted to doing things
the natural way I guess youcould say.
So I was like that's prettybadass, but I didn't really have
the inclination to ask more.
It wasn't like a big talkingpoint in my family and I didn't
(05:56):
really have a strong pull tostart a family at all growing up
, so it just wasn't really on myradar.
The same way, I definitely fell, I think, what I would consider
it's now to be.
Angela (06:13):
I think what I would consider now to be kind of the
trap of the modern woman intojust the working cycle, not
really at all thinking about afamily.
Victoria (06:17):
What sort of things did you do after you finished
high school?
I worked a lot on differentfarms.
I've done a lot of differentthings, like I've worked on a
few different farms, I startedworking in kitchens and worked
my way up to chef and I'veworked in a few different like
design stores, working on makingclothing and just like a lot of
cafes different uh yeah, a lot,I guess service industry kind
(06:43):
of stuff playing around in allsorts of different puddles.
You could say, but uh, yeah, itwasn't really until I guess my
early thirties that I startedthinking like I think it was
like my biological clock too.
You know, they say once you getinto that age it just starts to
become a thing.
(07:04):
So yeah, I didn't really havetoo many narratives going in.
I assumed that I wanted a homebirth and just started looking
into that kind of when the timecame.
Angela (07:18):
Yeah, so how did you find out you were pregnant and
what were your thoughts inchoosing your care when you
found out?
Victoria (07:32):
Okay, well, we, we decided to try to get pregnant.
So I was tracking my cycle.
I'd been doing that for closeto 10 years.
I found that to be a reallyeffective form of birth control.
So I was always very in touchwith when I was ovulating, had a
really regular cycle, reallyblessed in that way.
So, yeah, we tried for abouttwo months and got pregnant on
the second go and yeah, it wasjust kind of a kind of a knowing
(07:56):
, I guess, and excitement andanticipation and just like wow,
it felt like like a timer hadbeen set, like I could feel it
just dawning on me this next ageof my life, you could say.
Angela (08:15):
So I was super excited and yeah, what were your
thoughts when you were choosingyour care?
Victoria (08:28):
you were choosing your care, ah, yes, well, at that
point I had been very muchimmersed into the kind of the
stuff that FBS does purport to.
As far as doing wild pregnancy,I had done a couple of courses
with Kim Inami, who is anotherinternet space holder, you could
say.
I got introduced to her workfirst by doing one of her
programs on like sexuality,because I was just at a place of
(08:52):
wanting to know more about mybody and be more in touch with
how everything was working, andso I really, really enjoyed that
program with her.
And then she had a programcalled Sexy Mama, which I took
right after the first program,and that was a brief
(09:12):
introduction to like wildpregnancy.
Orgasmic birth I guess the wholeorgasmic birth was the main
kind of draw to taking thatprogram.
And she touched on what I nowwould consider to be kind of a
balanced approach to birth likeJews and midwife.
(09:32):
If you want, you couldtechnically go to a hospital,
but you probably won't have anorgasmic birth like it.
Really, really, you need a lotof you know for that.
And then, ultimately, she wasdefinitely a proponent of free
birth as well um, doing it athome, just with your partner, um
(09:52):
, so that was where I firststarted to pick up the language
of like birth being thecontinuation of the sex act in
some ways and just being thisplace that really benefits from,
you know, privacy and just awarm, loving environment.
And so she had a fewsuggestions for doing more
(10:16):
natural care as well and waysthat you could kind of avoid
going and getting too many scansand things like that.
So that was where I was kind ofintroduced to that.
And then I found free birthpretty much on the heels of free
birth society, on the heels ofgetting pregnant, and that just
kind of put everything intofocus a little bit more that I
(10:38):
was definitely having a wildpregnancy.
So, yeah, that's what I did, Iactually pregnancy.
So yeah, that's what I did.
I actually it's a little bittricky to get a doctor here in
Quebec and I don't really findmyself needing to go to the
doctor too often, so I actuallydon't even have a personal
physician at this time.
So I was like cool, no big deal, like I was feeling amazing.
(11:04):
Honestly, I didn't have anysymptoms in the beginning of my
pregnancy other than a littlebit of like meat aversion.
Um, I was feeling amazing.
I did a bunch of cleansing,like leading up to getting
pregnant, and everything wasgoing really well for me.
So it was certainly veryrelaxing and felt very good in
(11:29):
that way.
I didn't really feel a need todo anything.
I got a little bit of melasma.
This was the one thing that Idid end up getting a little bit
of like discoloration on myupper lip, but I wasn't you know
, it was a totally cosmetic kindof side effect, I guess you
could say.
As far as I understand, so yeah, I had a totally wild pregnancy
(11:51):
.
I didn't do anything.
I went to acupuncture a coupleof times and just let it roll.
What?
Angela (11:59):
were your thoughts like as you were discovering Free
Birth Society and kind of, wereyou starting to like to listen
to the podcast or were you doinglike their workshops, or how
did that unfold?
Victoria (12:11):
I was just listening to the podcast.
I had taken a training as adoula back in 2016 and had like
this small understanding ofbirth work.
I attended one birth in thehospital, um, and so at that
point, like fairly early on inmy pregnancy, I was like maybe
I'll get a midwife.
(12:31):
I'm not sure it's super easy toget a midwife up in Canada
because it's all paid for by thegovernment, so it's not really
the same kind of, I guess,stress or investment that it
could be for other women.
Um, so I was actually justlistening to the podcast and I
felt very emboldened by thestories that I could totally do.
(12:54):
This I did.
I did have a deep trust in mybody's abilities and I think
sacred capabilities weresomething that I started to hone
in on.
I'll say this whole journeyreally brought me closer to God
for sure, just dealing with theweight of bearing new life.
(13:18):
It really flipped a switch forme, and so I felt very
emboldened to just do some basicreading but to base a lot of my
research actually on thepodcast, which, looking back,
was like a very bold move indeed.
I fully believe I got verylucky or very protected with
(13:43):
this birth.
Everything went so well.
But yeah, I basically just did alot of my research listening to
birth stories and was very muchaligned with their philosophy
of don't put any negativity inyour head.
You know you are the source,you are the origin of anything
(14:04):
that could go well or bad, youlike your mental that is.
So I definitely bought thathook line and sinker and I was
just immersing myself inpositive first stories.
If I had a potential emergencythat I was concerned about, I
was just like looking at podcastepisodes and being like, okay,
(14:26):
well, this chick pulled it off,you know it'll be fine.
Like I live seven minutes awayfrom a hospital, worst case.
And uh, yeah, I did have mymother's support.
She was, she was really sweet,she did the guide to free birth
that's just a way to support meand she kind of tried to wrap
(14:49):
her head around what I was doingand it's the first grandchild
coming in and so that was reallyreally loving and sweet of her
to do.
I felt really supported by that.
But I didn't do it myself andyou know my partner had this
very calm, still kind of support.
He was like, yeah, you can, youcan do this, like I'm not
(15:11):
worried about it, like he wasvery chill about it too.
So you know that just all linedright up and yeah, that was
kind of my my birth prep wasjust listening to a lot of
podcasts.
Honestly, I don't know if Iwould recommend it, but hey here
(15:32):
we are oh man, you know thatbeginner's luck is a thing I
think I don't really know.
I'm still really grappling withthat, honestly so it is.
Angela (15:43):
It's such a hard thing because, like in many cases,
like birth just works totallyfine, but like then obviously
there's some things that aremaybe a little more than just a
variation of normal righttotally and even if they are a
variation of normal.
Victoria (15:59):
I've come to realize now, since going through the
birth experience, like I don'tknow if I would necessarily be
grounded enough to to hold that,to be able to decipher in some
cases I'm not sure I've.
Uh, I found this wholeexperience to be very sobering.
(16:21):
You, it's one thing tointellectualize and only focus
on the good beforehand, and thenthere's the other experience of
like going through the birthprocess and like the reality of
holding my baby in my arms nowand like what if something had
happened to him.
Angela (16:40):
It's so, it's still tripping me out a little bit and
yeah, I love that your mom wasso supportive that she took the
whole complete guide to freebirth like that's amazing oh, it
really is.
Victoria (16:54):
Yeah, yeah, I was super blessed by that so what
were her thoughts?
do you remember like when shewas, like some conversations you
might have had like during yourpregnancy, like as she was
going through that course at all, or I mean, she has a tendency
at this time in our relationshipnot to come on too strong about
things, because I think we'vehad a bit of a push and pull
(17:18):
over our lives together of meprobably not really responding
very well to too much criticismand just like withdrawing.
So she was very, very delicateabout it.
But she did yeah, she didexpress like I don't really
understand what you're doing.
You know, and her births wereall in the hospital and they
(17:41):
were uneventful.
They were, they went well.
So I think for her, the impetusto do something so potentially
radical or drastic, she couldn'treally really quite understand
that and part of me didn'treally either.
I think that I recognize inmyself that I have been drawn to
(18:03):
some more extreme poles ofvarious topics throughout my
life and I did feel very deeplyin my heart that this was going
to work out, really felt likebirth is God's design and you
know why shouldn't we trust ourbodies?
Like that's the whole catch 22of this.
(18:23):
I do believe that is true.
You know, if shouldn't we trustour bodies?
Like it's the whole catch-22.
I do believe that is true.
You know, if you thinksomething's going to fail,
chances are it will fail.
But, yeah, she was very tenderand stepping lightly around it,
but it really brought us closer.
It was really awesome,definitely brought us closer in
our relationship.
(18:44):
And here we are on the otherside of it and it certainly has
impacted just the way that I,you all women honestly just
having a baby, you start toappreciate how personalized all
of these birth choices reallyare.
And that was really humblingand really appropriate for me to
(19:10):
experience, because I think Idid have a lot of judgment
around that at various times inmy life.
Just thinking like this is theonly way to go, like similar to
what a lot of the free birthsociety dogma kind of
illuminates, is that it's likethe enlightened kind of choice,
you know.
Angela (19:27):
So yeah, so for the last weeks and then days leading up
to like when your labor startedlooking like well, I stopped
working.
Victoria (19:35):
I was working a pretty demanding job.
I was a chef and so I wasstanding a lot and so I was
getting tired towards the end.
The kitchen was incredibly hotand so I was really, really
excited to just be home andresting and sitting in the AC
and relaxing, just doing a lotof connecting with my body and
(19:56):
my baby and doing acupunctureand just visualizing my birth
and getting all of the thingsready.
And, yeah, it was a reallyrelaxing, sacred time, a time
that, now that I have a baby, Ican't picture ever having again.
It was like such a sweet treat.
(20:17):
I don't know if I appreciatedquite how much I could relax
with that first baby, but it wasawesome.
You know, I felt really good.
I had like just some mild legcramps and, yeah, I was getting
up a lot to pee, but you know,telling myself like this is,
this is probably like trainingfor when my baby's going to be
(20:38):
up all the time and so reallyjust getting myself in the
headspace of welcoming my new,my new baby, and I really had a
feeling that he was a boy prettyearly on, so I was just talking
to him using his name.
You know all the sweet lovingsthat, yeah, mama's do.
So, yeah, it was prettyseamless the last few weeks,
(21:01):
just relaxing.
Angela (21:03):
Yeah, so how did your labor start?
Victoria (21:07):
So a little bit of backstory.
My partner was working at a jobthat was about an hour and a
half away at the time and ourcar had broken down on the
Friday of the week and so he hadbeen like rushing around
looking for a new car becausethis one was just done.
(21:28):
It was like not able to befixed, and so it was Tuesday.
He had like taken a couple ofdays off to like try to find a
car.
Things kept falling through andhe finally finds this car late
Tuesday and drives it home andwe go for a little, a little joy
(21:49):
ride.
Like close to midnight and Idon't know what the gentleman
who sold him the car was reallyhoping for, but basically right
after Corey had paid for the car, I think he went home and got
something he needed, but hedoused the car in so much air
freshener it was just wild.
(22:11):
It was like okay, like wealready bought the car, like
it's okay, you don't need to dothat.
So, anyways, after this likevery short ride, we were both
like we need to get out of thiscar, like can't handle this.
My hair smelled so stronglylike air freshener.
I was like, wow, this is wild,like I'm just gonna try to go to
sleep.
I'm starting to get a headache,so went to sleep, woke up like
(22:35):
earlier in the morning, beforehe had to go back to work, just
had like a wig and headache andmy hair just like reeks like air
freshener.
It was just wild.
So I decided to try to take ashower and wash it off and that
worked somewhat.
But I went back to bed and wokeup later in the morning.
(22:57):
My nephew is going to come andwalk the dogs, so I was waiting
for him to arrive and you knowyoung teens, he kept shuffling
the time.
So I'm just kind of like okay,well, he's going to show up,
whatever at some point to walkthe dogs and that'll be great.
And then around noon I was 12,30 or so I started to get like
(23:17):
full on contractions, just likecompletely out of nowhere.
And I'm still kind of lying onthe couch trying to like recover
from this headache and I willsay contractions are a perfect
headache remedy.
My headache completely wentaway in that moment.
I was after the first one.
(23:38):
It was completely gone and Iwas like holy moly, that's a
contraction.
I was really taken aback.
You know like this, this commonjargon that oh, it's just like
a period cramp or something, andit's not.
It's really not.
So I went right into activelabor.
My next contraction was likeroughly four minutes after that
(24:01):
and the next one was threeminutes after that and I was
like, okay, I had about fivecontractions.
And then I called Corey and Iwas like, okay, you're gonna
have to head home because I mean, you might want to rest.
You know, I wasn't sure wherethings were gonna go, but he had
been, you know, up so muchlooking for this car.
I was like, for sure he'll beable to come and chill out a
(24:22):
little bit.
So he's like OK, great, I'm onmy way.
He got home a couple hourslater and after I hung up with
him I was like there's no way Ican see my nephew right now.
Like I just texted him and Iwas like no, please don't come
over.
It's all good, the dogs will befine.
(24:42):
I'm going to try to fill up mybathtub and just work through
this.
I had had the plan to fill up alittle birth tub, but I was not
game for that at all.
They were coming on so strong.
Uh, I had a really hard timegetting comfortable through the
whole labor, uh, you know allthese little plans that I had
(25:05):
made, my birthing ball, mybirthing tub, nothing felt good.
It was, uh, it was on, and Ithink the position I felt the
best in really was kind of justlike gripping onto my knees and
like a semi squat, and so I didthat as much as I could.
(25:27):
I hung off off my pull up bar alittle bit and it just felt
like things stayed at that pacefor for quite a while.
Stayed at that pace for forquite a while.
Yeah, corey got home and my dogswere both just like side eyes,
like what's going on, like myhusky was so taken aback and my
(25:48):
border collie was really sweet.
She followed me around likeeverywhere.
I went, like from the bathroomto the bedroom just kind of
quietly with my shadow the wholetime.
Your doggy doula, my doggydoula, yeah, my, my midwife so
many cute names for it.
So that was a blessing and Imean I had also envisioned maybe
(26:11):
Corey would be there rubbing myback.
Nope, did not want that.
He tried a few times and I waslike nope, nope, don't touch me,
this is not, this is not thevibe right now.
So, yeah, things just progressedand my water broke around 530,
I think Roughly.
I wasn't keeping track at thatpoint, but I think it was around
(26:33):
then and then just began theslow dance of crowning, which I
actually did not understand atthe time.
I was like, okay, I can feelhis head a little bit and I'd be
like Corey, do you see anything?
Like he's like no, no, I don'tsee anything.
And then I'm like, oh no, Iwent back again.
(26:53):
I added after the contraction,like I was very much just
letting my body do all thepushing that felt.
That felt like enough, but thatwas.
That was very puzzling for me,like I did not do the research
on what crowning was.
So after after a little while ofthat maybe an hour and a half
(27:15):
or so I did get to the pointwhere I was like I think I'm
gonna have to push this baby out, and so I prepared to do that.
I was able to get all onto allfours, which had felt really
terrible up until then, but Iwas able to manage it at that
point and just I guess, leadingup to that, once I made that
(27:40):
decision that I was going tohave to push him out, I was so
scared I was like you know what?
Like I don't want to push himout, I don't want to tear, like
I had this narrative going in myhead and and then I do remember
hitting transition somewhere inthere and just exclaiming like
(28:01):
I can't do this, like I can't dothis for much longer, and Corey
had been in the other room kindof just trying to relax and I
don't think he even realizedthat I heard him, but he said
under his breath like well then,who's gonna do it?
That was exactly what I neededto hear.
I was like, okay, you know what, you're right, I'm just going
(28:22):
to do this.
Like it's going to work out,this is what's got to happen.
So, yeah, I was like, okay, I'mgoing to start pushing.
So I pushed for two contractions.
His head came out the first,and then his body the second and
wow, it was so amazing, coreywas there there, he caught him
and I will say actually inbetween those two contractions
(28:44):
there was probably the longestbreak that I had in my labor.
His head was out and I was justwaiting for the next
contraction and it didn't come.
Didn't come.
It was about eight minutesactually between when his head
and his body came out, because Iwas just waiting for that
contraction and yeah, but itfinally came and he was crying
(29:09):
right away.
I didn't even get to grab himsoon enough, but he was, yeah,
just pink little baby cryingright away.
His cord was like a little bitshort but I could still just
kiss the top of his head and,wow, it was so amazing.
My dogs were there, my partnerwas there.
(29:30):
It was just so peaceful andslow and that first hour just
completely dissolved.
I don't remember that timepassing at all.
It was just really amazing.
So, yeah, it was so fortunateand just such an amazing
(29:50):
experience.
How did your placenta birth?
So, I guess, when we realizedthat it had been about an hour,
I was like, okay, let's go tothe bathtub and I'm going to
just see what's going on.
And he was holding the baby andI just got into the tub and just
started to try to pull on thecord a little bit and was really
(30:14):
taken aback by how the cordfelt.
It's like what a strange feeling.
But I was like, okay, I can dothis and just bear down and and
push the placenta out, and atthat point I released a lot of
blood.
I hadn't been bleeding at allup until that time and so I
released a lot of blood when theplacenta came out and started
(30:38):
to feel it started to just feela little bit agitated, getting a
little bit impatient, and I wasexpecting Corey to do something
and he didn't do it quickenough.
He was like whoa, whoa, whoa.
So it was interesting.
I really felt that switch whenI lost all of that blood, which
was interesting.
I don't know if it was just thevisual I'm still interested to
(31:01):
dive into the mechanics of thata little bit but yeah, it came
right out, did a little placentaprint and cut the cord and yeah
, it was a very, very easyprocess for me.
Angela (31:17):
Amazing, oh my goodness.
So was your like immediatepostpartum it was really sweet.
Victoria (31:24):
I was very much taken aback at you know the next
couple of days, how much painset into my body.
I was for sure, on that birthhigh for the first you know
earth, high for the first, youknow, 36 hours or so I was like,
oh, I can't wait to do thisagain.
(31:45):
Like, just like.
And then the next day I waslike, wow, my butthole feels
like its soul has left my body.
Like I did have some someprolapse going on there, so that
was I had completely forgottenabout that, I was not really
expecting it, and so I was like,okay, I know what this is, but
(32:06):
was not not envisioning it to bethis way.
So I was able to do a littlebit of acupuncture using like
some moxibustion and able tohelp resolve that a little bit.
But that was an interestingnavigation, for sure I didn't
tear, so everything else youknow went pretty smoothly.
(32:31):
I mean that first pee is likealso not something you're really
expecting or you can't reallyprepare for, but a whole par for
the course.
So all in all it was.
It was a pretty smooth um timeof recovery.
I I thought that jail hadlatched, fine, but we found out
(32:56):
in the coming months.
It was about a month he wasn'tgaining like a ton of weight and
so did a little bit moredigging, and I think it was
closer to his two-month markthat I had started to reach out
to some local La Leche Leagueteam members and I had been
(33:18):
hanging out with a girlfriendand she was like, oh, his latch
doesn't seem right.
And I'm like, oh, okay, um, soI basically had his lip kind of
curled in and he wasn't gettingenough, and so I went home from
that hangout and I was like,okay, I'm gonna just pump and
see what I'm producing.
(33:38):
And it was so low, I was likebarely producing anything,
basically because he was justnot stimulating it enough with
the poor latch.
So that was really reallyemotional for me.
Going through all of that andbeing like, wow, I was really
riding high, I think, on onfumes and I feel like I just
(34:01):
totally washed over.
This super important part of myfirst step as a mother is like
feeding my baby, and sothankfully, everything got, of
course, corrected in time.
I put him on formula for a bit,which again was something I was
(34:21):
like really, really judgingmyself for, which is so silly.
Looking back, there's a lot ofa lot of pressure that I didn't
need to put on myself.
But again, some of theseideological groups that I
surrounded myself by it was likeformula, formula that's
disgusting.
Why would you ever give yourbaby that?
(34:42):
Like, can you think abouteating formula?
Like I had all these linesrunning in my head and I was
yeah, I I definitely dug myselfa bit of a bit of a hole with
that one, but then again it wassomething that I needed to kind
of bring me back to reality andsoften my heart towards towards
(35:03):
myself and to women in general.
And thankfully he was fine anddidn't take too long before my
supply was up again and, yeah, Ireally got to experience a bit
more community.
I think that was something Irecognized through my birth and
my birth experience ofpostpartum that I did not have
(35:27):
sufficiently.
So that was how I began to tolearn.
That is like, well, if I hadmore people around me, maybe
somebody would have kind of seenthe latch earlier.
You know all all these things,but for the most part it was.
It was a truly blissful time.
My partner was able to take offa little bit of time at the
(35:47):
beginning there and it was sosweet just hanging out all of us
as a new family and integratingwith my dogs.
And yeah, I'm, he's just overone year now and I'm starting to
have little flashes of feelinglike myself again.
But yeah, I'm, he's just overone year now and I'm starting to
have little flashes of feelinglike myself again.
But yeah, it was also awhirlwind, I realized, going
through MMI for a good portionof my postpartum.
(36:09):
So, looking back, I I'm notsure if I would do something
like that again.
For me it's been just such anamazing time to learn how to be
present, having a baby.
Angela (36:22):
Yeah, oh, my goodness.
So what month was your son born?
Victoria (36:28):
He was born mid July, july 17.
Angela (36:30):
So so when did you make the decision to sign up for MMI?
Was it when your pregnancy, orwas it just after?
Victoria (36:38):
It was during my pregnancy, so I kind of got
initiated into all of theirdogma and I was like, wow, like
I love birth, Like I think mybirth is gonna go great, Like
maybe this will be something Icould do as a mom, you know, not
really embracing the notion ofstaying at home fully in my head
(37:01):
.
I think I wanted to do that inmy heart, but in my head I was
like, no, I'm going to like work, you know, like whatever.
So I thought, oh, this would bea really great thing to do and
was totally swept away intoEmily and Yolanda land and it
was like, oh for sure, I want todo this.
Angela (37:22):
Yeah.
So when you say like this iswhat I wanted to do, and you're
kind of thinking about it likeas a job, like what were you
envisioning, like you wanted.
Victoria (37:31):
Well, I, like I mentioned, I had taken a doula
program back in 2016.
I attended one hospital birthand at that point I had been
toying with the idea of taking alicensed midwifery program and
for some reason it didn't.
It just didn't click.
When the time came to choosewhat I wanted to put that money
(37:54):
towards, I chose acupuncture,and that was in 2020.
And, long story short, I wasn'table to finish the acupuncture
because COVID came along mynatural school that swore they
weren't going to implement thevaccine mandates, ended up doing
that, and so I had to drop outpartway through.
(38:16):
I decided to drop out part waythrough.
I decided to drop out part waythrough and then I got pregnant,
you know, pretty soon afterthat.
So I was in a bit of a limbowith where I wanted to go and
finding free birth society andjust really resonating with a
lot of their interpretation ofwhat birth really was.
(38:39):
I was like, oh, this is amazing.
I think this is why I waited todo midwifery school.
That was really present for me.
I was like this is the programI was waiting for.
You know, this gold standard,holistic immersion into
midwifery.
This is perfect, like it's aone-year program, it's.
(39:01):
I mean it's expensive, but it'scertainly much less of an
investment than doing afour-year program up here.
And yeah, that was that wasvery much how it appeared.
To me is like this was theprogram I was actually waiting
for.
So, yeah, I decided to do it.
All those pregnancy hormoneslike dissolving my gray matter
(39:26):
as I made the decision.
Angela (39:29):
So were you curious when your mom was taking their
complete guide to free birth?
Had you watched any of thevideos like before you decided
to sign up or no, I didn't.
Victoria (39:38):
I like was literally just listening to the podcast
and, like, maybe watching a fewthings on Instagram here and
there.
Angela (39:46):
So you're on the email list with all of that marketing.
Victoria (39:49):
Yeah, definitely, yeah , yeah, definitely in there.
Angela (39:54):
So, so what were your thoughts as things got started?
So what?
Victoria (39:57):
were your thoughts as things got started?
Well, I felt again like my egowas coming through so strongly
because I was like, yeah, I justhad a free birth, like my first
baby, like I mean it was uh, itfelt like the place I needed to
be.
I was like a hundred percentbirth works.
Any woman can do this, like I.
(40:22):
I mean, I just researched usingpodcasts and it worked out for
me.
You know, everything wasconfirming my bias that this was
the way to do things.
I was digging it.
I can't, I can't go back andlike deny that version of myself
.
Looking back, I really can't.
I was, I was super into it.
(40:44):
I mean, there's many aspects ofthat school that were really
awesome and, on point, the selfmastery tools.
They make complete sense thatyou should, you know, get your
own stuff under control andcertainly something that I was
realizing I needed to work on asa new mom and being flooded
(41:06):
with all the emotions and allthe things and holding space.
That was something that I wasparticularly attracted to
learning more about how toembody.
And so you know, there was alot of truth in that first
quarter and the mentorship podswere amazing, like just being
under our pod leaders, influence, and it was just wonderful
(41:31):
meeting all of you women whowere so like-minded and so
inspiring to me as a new mom aswell.
I was just like wow, like thesewomen are so amazing and I just
really want to emulate andlearn from all of them, not just
Emily and Yolanda but I wasreally feeling my cup was filled
in that in that aspect.
(41:51):
You know, I've decided to livein an area that the main
language is French and I don'tspeak French, and so I was able
to kind of bypass that a littlebit before having a baby.
But since having a baby, beingout and about in my area, I'm
feeling that a lot more just thelanguage barrier.
(42:12):
So I was naturally drawn tothis online space even harder.
Yeah, for better or for worse.
I mean, I truly have met someamazing women through all of
this.
So that was the big part.
That I really really enjoyedwas that and the accountability
partner meetings every month.
So on the outset everything wasgoing really well and it's funny
(42:35):
actually, my partner didcomment pretty early on because
there's so much content.
I was just listening to thelectures like all the time he's
like I don't like these women,like what's going on with them
like, why do they have thisattitude?
Like, like they're, they'rerude, like, and I was like what,
(42:58):
no, like, I totally just likewas not, was not on that
timeline yet of reallyunderstanding what I now would
kind of call like the strongdisgust factor that I see as a
current running through a lot oftheir approach.
And I think that it wassomething that I actually
(43:24):
aligned with at that time in mylife and that's why I wasn't
really able to see it so very,very humbling to go through that
journey of understanding.
Like, like, why was I reallydrawn to these women?
Why was I enraptured by theirteachings and them as people?
(43:46):
And, um, that was something thatI've identified in the times,
in the months since is like, forsome reason, I was really drawn
to that kind of indignantjudgment that was coursing
through the veins of thatprogram and became very hard to
ignore once we got into theanatomy physiology quarter, just
(44:09):
looking back their disrespectfor any other kind of medical
professional, other kind ofmedical professional it's not,
not sisterly, I don't thinkwhich, ironically, was a huge, I
think, uh, overshadowing that Idon't know.
It gave the impression thatthis was like all this sisterly
(44:31):
stuff that we're doing, you know, throughout the program and in
the end not very sisterly, we'rejust not very respectful.
So yeah, it was once we gotinto quarter two that every
single video just seemed to kindof end up with the same results
.
It was like, well, you know, ifyou're enlightened enough, like
(44:52):
, your birth will go perfectlyfine, and so that at that time
definitely was inflating my egoas well.
I was like, well, I just hadthis rebirth and it was fine,
like um.
So there was a lot of tug-of-warthat was happening with me
because I was recognizing thatthe content was lacking as far
(45:18):
as like real actionableopportunities for any of these
problems like hemorrhaging oh itjust doesn't happen, okay.
Breech births, oh they just.
You don't have to worry aboutit.
You know, as long as yourenergy is on point, as long as
you are maintaining thatself-mastery that we've been
(45:38):
teaching you and that weobviously follow, you're going
to be fine.
So starting to grapple with theweight of that pressure by the
end of that second quarter waslike I can't do birth work, I am
not holy enough to do birthwork.
It did certainly flip for meand I was like I don't want
(45:59):
birth work, I am not holy enoughto do birth work.
It did certainly flip for meand I was like I don't want to
mess up somebody else's birth,like I have my shit, like I'm
not I'm not holy enough to dobirth work.
That was like the place Ilanded myself in and it was
really refreshing to cometogether with the other women
(46:20):
who were feeling this consensuslack of of the content as well.
So, yeah, it was interestinghow it started to shift for me.
Angela (46:31):
What were your thoughts after the class where Yolanda
basically trauma dumped oneveryone after she had just
supported a difficult birth andsummed it all up to if any of us
are going to attend births, weneed to be prepared to go to
jail and shifted into.
We should all just really focuson online birth coaching after
we'd all just signed up for whatwas advertised and sold as the
(46:52):
world's leading sovereignmidwifery school, like we didn't
sign up for the world's leadingbirth coaching school.
Victoria (46:59):
That really shocked me .
I was like what?
She's not practicing birthanymore now.
Like has she not been to birthsthat have gone bad?
Like what is this really?
What is this showing about her?
And then, at the same time, Iwas also like, well, I mean, I
wasn't really gonna go to birthright away, like for sure.
(47:20):
Like the coaching is a goodthing for me to start with.
So that was something that Ihad come to terms with as well.
Throughout the program.
I had been hoping to attend oneof my sister's upcoming births
and then slowly realized, likeI'm not going to have the space
to do that with my new baby.
I'm not going to feelcomfortable enough.
(47:41):
Yeah, leaving him.
That was not the way I wantedto do things at the time, so
part of it was a little bit likeokay, I mean I don't want to go
to jail, so I guess, yeah, I'lljust do the coaching.
Like it certainly had a strongeffect on me.
That call is very bizarre.
Looking back, everything's morebizarre looking back.
Angela (48:05):
So you started to notice the course content was lacking
in the midwifery section andthat was about the time when a
lot of women started to connectand get on calls to talk about
it.
And I think there was a groupemail that was sent to the
teachers.
That was kind of like maybe youcould add on this information
to the course at some point,like we would all be fine with
that, but we are noticing thatthis information is lacking and
(48:27):
we do want this information.
And a lot of women werecommenting that there was less
information in MatriBirthMidwifery Institute than there
was in the Complete Guide toFree Birth.
So the sentiment was like wenoticed a lot of information is
missing, but if you could add iton, like we're okay with that.
What was your experience duringthis time?
Victoria (48:49):
That felt like it was going to be enough.
I was like, yep, I'm happy tocontinue with this program.
I was getting, like I said, alot of benefit from it at that
time.
So I was like, yeah, for sure,Like these women care about
women, they're going to, ofcourse, respond positively and
understand where we're comingfrom.
(49:10):
And for me it felt like maybethis course is being displayed
by them.
It was their inaugural year,you know.
There were so many things thatwere going through my head.
I was like, well, maybe they'vejust they're just so
experienced that they don'treally get what it feels like
for somebody who isn'texperienced.
And this must just be anoversight, you know.
(49:30):
Know, I was like totallyhopeful that that things were
going to get resolved andcertainly the way that a couple
of our fellow studentsapproached them was so
respectful, so well thought out,well written.
It was not like an emotionalrant during a class.
It it was like very thoughtful,genuinely concerned and truly
(49:56):
supported by the network ofstudents.
So it was.
It was interesting to see howthings spiraled out of control
pretty quickly.
For sure, it's not not what Iwas expecting at all.
Sure, it's not not what I wasexpecting at all.
Yeah, and around that same time,four of the pod mentors all
(50:19):
left like at the same time, andone of them was our pod mentor,
right, yep, that was a hugecatalyst for me to start to
dislike the program as well.
Yeah, for some reason I totallyforgot about that, but that was
like a big deal for me.
I just adored our pod leaderand, uh, those, those meetings
were my very favorite.
I really felt like that waswhere I was getting a ton of
benefit from as well.
So that became very interestingto see their response to that.
(50:44):
I remember posting in the mightynetwork being like you know,
I'm not, I'm finding this to bea little bit destabilizing.
Like can we have a meeting totalk about this?
Emily and Yolanda, please Canwe talk about what's going on?
Because at the time our mentorswere just very like hush hush
about it.
They were like sorry, you gotto go, like don't want to get
(51:08):
involved, and all credit to themfor that.
But then Emily and Yolanda justresponded like no, there's
nothing going on.
Like what do you mean?
Like people leave?
Angela (51:19):
They all left for different reasons.
Victoria (51:21):
It was unrelated.
Yeah totally Like just totallygaslighting them.
And that was where it startedto become a little more apparent
.
You know what the intentionswere for Emily and Yolanda.
What I can assume were justtheir modus operatum, yeah, so
that was disheartening.
And then to see other fellowstudents just getting kicked out
(51:46):
left, right and center, alsofrom our pod group, it was like
just felt like blow after blowin a way and really, really
downgraded my experience of thewhole thing I think
understandably so.
And then I felt like it was abit of a slap in the face.
They agreed to have thismeeting to kind of join our
hearts I think that was thelanguage that was used.
(52:09):
Once they had joined our heartsin connection, you know, as
sisters, like once they hadkicked out all of the women who
had been pointedly standing upto them and I was like, oh yeah,
of course asking questions likeare you going to teach anything
about midwifery and themidwifery school that you
(52:30):
promoted and advertised like assuch?
Exactly Well and like, becauseit started off so genuine and
respectful, like I said, andthen I think once they kind of
brushed that off it was it beganto become like well, you are a
fraud, like you are notmarketing this course properly,
(52:52):
and surely they felt reallyshaken up by that realization.
So, yeah, it definitely gotintense.
It was a big investment for somany women and I can understand
why women stayed in the programas well.
I don't doubt that some of thewomen who did not leave at the
(53:14):
time that I chose to leave, orwomen got kicked out.
I don't doubt that some of themwere dissatisfied with the
program.
But it is such a hugeinvestment Like I only had a
couple of payments left by thetime I quit in April.
And what can you do?
Angela (53:35):
When did you know for sure that you had to withdraw
from the program?
Victoria (53:39):
It was shortly after this joining our hearts call, I
spoke up in that class and justasked a few questions about like
why did you feel like it wasnecessary to kick these women
out?
I wanted to know.
And Emily and Yolanda bothturned on me pretty quickly and
they were like well, you're onlyasking that because you're
(54:01):
clearly like ignorant ofbusiness and like of course we
would do that, like it's ourright to do it.
You know, they just got verydefensive and basically made it
seem like these women really hadnothing going for them and they
were just being littletroublemakers.
(54:21):
And that was very strange tosee.
And as well in that call therewas some attempt by one of our
fellow students to kind of rallysome support for a woman who
had lost her baby in a freebirth, who had been part of the
program, and that was respondedto by like no, that would be
(54:47):
rude, like that would beinvasive, why would you do that?
And it was just really bizarreafter we had been taking classes
about supporting women throughlaws and like well, what else
are you gonna do?
Are you just gonna brush thatunder the rug?
Like is that how you actuallydeal with supporting a woman
(55:10):
with loss.
It was uh, so it felt veryhypocritical and not like sound
logic.
It just started to feel likemaybe what I was being taught
was not actually being embodiedby this woman.
Angela (55:23):
For sure, maybe what your husband said at the
beginning, right, like, let's goback to listening to our
husbands, like all of us all ofour husbands, I think, said this
at the beginning of the programalso.
Victoria (55:33):
Yeah, and I actually, on that note, that's been an
interesting journey that I'vegone through recently is really
understanding what it looks liketo be a respectful wife,
because I think a lot of oursocietal programming does really
push this like independentwoman, vibe and like feminist,
(55:53):
you got this girl and I reallythink it's toxic for
relationships.
Personally, maybe it's just theage and maturity that I'm at,
but it hasn't worked for me andmy relationship and it's really
illuminated, you know, areasthat I'm just trying to control
really and not surrendering,like speaking of surrendering
and birth, it's likesurrendering is a whole thing.
(56:16):
It's not, it's not just in onearea of your life.
And I was taken aback a coupleof times.
I heard these women talk abouttheir husbands in a little bit
of a disrespectful way.
In a little bit of adisrespectful way was my
impression, and yeah, so it's.
(56:42):
I think it's interesting thatmaybe I was drawn to that at
that time because I was somewhatin alignment with it.
So, yeah, starting to break freefrom that rebellious nature was
a huge part of my healing, ofcoming out of this program, and
something that I did notice wasbeing emulated by these women.
But that call really reallykind of sobered me up, you could
say, and especially chattingwith you women after that and
(57:06):
just really, just reallywitnessing that flip-flop of
these, really just reallywitnessing that flip-flop of
these, of these two, these twoleaders who are spouting so much
about sisterhood and thenacting like it's so off base and
like you know, sisterhood isearned like it was just too much
hypocrisy for me to reallycontinue.
(57:28):
I I had reached a point where Iwas like I don't even want to
go to class anymore, like whywould I stay in this program?
And was starting to reallyunderstand what motherhood was
requiring of me and settlingmore into a knowing that I
wanted to focus on that insteadof trying to be a boss, babe.
(57:48):
And really again coming back tothis, like I guess you could
call it traditional relationshiproles of like putting my
husband on the pedestal of beingthe provider and really sinking
into that and so that's, Ithink, a place that I want to go
right now in my life.
And so, yeah, it was just, itwas like I don't, I don't need
this anymore, I'm just going toget pissed off.
(58:10):
I think being in class now andyeah, too many stories about
about what other people werefeeling, and anyway, just
decided it was not the where Iwanted to spend my energy.
Basically, after that call,yeah, definitely.
Angela (58:28):
How have your views on birth shifted to like where you
are now, like right now, likewhat are your views on birth?
Victoria (58:34):
Oh man, it was like the education I was not
expecting, but the one that Ireally needed for sure.
I feel so much less judgmenttowards women.
I've finally been able to likeshed that at a very deep heart
level and start to understandthat birth is.
I do believe it's designed towork, but you know, women are
(58:57):
all at different places and theyhave different conditioning and
different experiences, andwhat's comfortable for one woman
is not comfortable for another,and that's like, really, I
think what is at the heart of abirth going as I guess maybe
nature intended it.
We could say it's notsuccessful is not the right word
Having a beautiful birth.
It's not my business to tellany woman what she should be
(59:21):
doing or what should feel goodfor her, just like it's.
Nobody can tell me what feelsgood for me in that way, and so
I've really been brought down anotch, and I understand that
that is really what's going tohelp me if I decide to serve
women in this capacity in thefuture, with women in the way
(59:53):
that I need to in order to dothis work.
And so that prayer wasdefinitely answered in such a
different way than I expected,and as far as having my own
babies again.
It's been interesting toreflect on that, what I will do.
I definitely recognize that I'dlike to get more training in
birth.
I hopped into Adelaide MeadowsBorn Through Movement course and
(01:00:16):
it's been amazing.
It's like what I learned in thefirst video.
The preamble of this course waslike what I was looking for in
the physiology section.
It was the tip of the iceberg,really, and so that was just a
huge blessing to realize thatyou know, you don't have to pay
(01:00:36):
an arm and a leg to learn realinformation, and I think that
that is going to be something Iwould use as a red flag
identifier.
Moving forward with who I chooseeducation from is like if
they're trying to, you know,consider what the price tag is
here, ladies like so yeah, it'ssomething that I do recognize I
(01:00:57):
want to get more training on ifI'm gonna have my own free birth
and my partner's like no, wecan totally do it.
Like it's cool.
So he's like, don't doubtyourself.
Like so I really appreciatethat energy coming from him as
well.
But what I also realized, Ithink, is I have been pushing
away like I guess, sisterhood,the true sisterhood, and
(01:01:20):
community in a way in my lifethat I would like to experience
differently next time around.
I think it would be a hugeblessing to have somebody there
to help clean up and, you know,just do little things like that
that I don't think I was in aplace of receiving before.
So just the beauty of, yeah,women witnessing women is
something I'm excited toexperience in my next birth.
(01:01:44):
And, you know, without thepressure of thinking that
they're there to judge me,that's totally been lifted now
and, yeah, I feel so much morefree.
I just there's something aboutlosing that judgment.
You know that's really gone along way for me.
Angela (01:01:59):
Not the education we were expecting, but this was
really just what a lot of uskind of maybe did need.
Victoria (01:02:06):
Yep, a hundred percent .
It was a big wake up call, Ithink, for a lot of women.
And, yep, it's an interestingtime to be alive and to have
access to the Internet and justthe amount of information we
have access to.
It comes with theresponsibility, ultimately, to
not get too emotional about yourinvestments, to really take
(01:02:27):
your time, I think.
And, yeah, you're never goingto be faulted for taking your
time, I think.
And yeah, you're never gonna befaulted for taking your time
with making decisions, and theinternet certainly can prey upon
that.
That quick dopamine hit, youknow.
So, yeah, exactly, exactly.
So I see birth work now assomething I might do kind of in
(01:02:49):
my my crone era, think I.
I would love to serve women inthat way and it's certainly been
a thread for me of interest inmy life.
So right now I'm focused onjust raising my family and I
felt a real call to finish mystudies in traditional Chinese
medicine.
I just adore that framework andI felt a lot of healing from
(01:03:12):
that wisdom and knowing and it'ssuper applicable to kids.
It's just like kind of what I'mfeeling right now.
So I think that's where I'mgonna focus my energies for the
time being.
Did you like the Wapios programat all?
I did, yeah, I went on the callwith a few of a few of the
women from MMI and we were justlistening to that program and
(01:03:35):
that sounds like the one stopshop that I was really looking
for.
I know you're taking it, isthat correct?
Yeah, yeah, so it seems amazing.
Angela (01:03:45):
Yeah, it really is everything that I originally
like was looking for in MMI andyeah, it's like we weren't
looking for this medical, allthis medical stuff, but we
wanted to know about physiologicbirth, you know, like we wanted
to know.
Like you know, like youmentioned, about your placenta
coming out.
You're like I, you know, Iwanted to know more about, like
maybe, what was actuallyhappening, like during that
process.
Victoria (01:04:05):
Yeah, no, it's important to know, and like it's
not enough to be teaching eachother in this program.
I felt like that was anotherthing that stood out to me.
It was like one of the mainassignments we had about
learning about the hormones.
We were just teaching eachother, we weren't gaining it
from the content that wasprovided, and so it's just
anyway.
(01:04:25):
Yeah.
Now you know hindsight's 2020,they say.
So I find that reallyencouraging to hear that
somebody like yourself, who'sbeen to so many births already
that Wapio is really it's reallyfilling the gap that you felt
like you needed.
So that's encouraging.
Angela (01:04:43):
Thank you so much, Victoria, for taking the time to
chat with me today and shareyour story.
Victoria (01:04:49):
Oh, thank you so much.
It's a pleasure to be sharingit here and share your story.
Oh, thank you so much.
It's a pleasure to be sharingit here Before you go.
Angela (01:04:54):
I just want to remind you I have a ton of resources
for pregnancy and birth.
If you're pregnant, whetheryou're a first-time mom or if
this is your fifth baby, I wantyou to check out the show notes
because I have some freetrainings and free downloads
that you can sign up for, aswell as the link to access my
Labor of Love, a comprehensive,self-paced online childbirth
(01:05:15):
education course.
I created this coursespecifically for moms who don't
want to be told what to do,regardless of where you're
birthing or who you're birthingwith, and I'd honestly love to
teach you everything that I knowso that you can prepare for an
autonomous birth experience andprepare to step into your role
as the leader of your birthjourney.
(01:05:36):
So click to the show notes,check out all of those links and
, if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at my main
birth over on Instagram.
There was some attempt by one of our fellow students
to kind of rally some supportfor a woman who had lost her
baby in a free birth, who hadbeen part of the program, and
that was responded to by like no, that would be rude, like that
(00:22):
would be invasive, why would youdo that?
And it was just really bizarreafter we had been taking classes
about supporting women throughlaws and like, well, what else
are you going to do?
Are you just going to brushthat under the rug?
Like is that how you actuallydeal with supporting a woman
(00:43):
with loss?
It was uh, so it felt veryhypocritical and not like sound
logic.
Angela (00:51):
It just started to feel like maybe what I was being
taught was not actually beingembodied by this woman for sure
maybe what your husband said atthe beginning right like, let's
go back to listening to ourhusbands, like all of us all of
our husbands, I think, said thisat the beginning of the program
also and I actually, on thatnote, that's been a an
interesting journey that I'vegone through recently is really
(01:14):
understanding what it looks liketo be a respectful wife,
because I think a lot of oursocietal programming does really
push this.
Victoria (01:23):
Like independent woman , vibe and like feminist, you
got this girl and I really thinkit's toxic for relationships.
Personally, maybe it's just theage and maturity that I'm at,
but it hasn't worked for me andmy relationship and it's really
illuminated, you know, areasthat I'm just trying to control
(01:44):
really, and not surrendering.
Like speaking of surrenderingand birth, it's like
surrendering is a whole thing,it's not, it's not just in one
area of your life.
And I was taken aback a coupleof times.
I heard these women talk abouttheir husbands in a little bit
of a disrespectful way was myimpression, and yeah, so it's.
(02:10):
I think it's interesting thatmaybe I was drawn to that at
that time because I was somewhatin alignment with it.
So, yeah, starting to breakfree from that rebellious nature
was a huge part of my healing,of coming out of this program,
and something that I did noticewas being emulated by these
women.
But that call really reallykind of sobered me up, you could
(02:35):
say.
Angela (02:37):
I'm Angela and I'm a certified birth photographer,
experienced doula, childbirtheducator and your host here on
the my Maine Birth podcast.
This is a space where we sharethe real-life stories of
families and their unique birthexperiences in the beautiful
state of Maine, from our state'sbiggest hospitals to birth
center births and home births.
(02:58):
Every birth story deserves tobe heard and celebrated.
Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother or simply
interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
Welcome back.
You're listening to episode 125of my Main Birth.
(03:18):
This week.
I'm doing something a littlebit different and sharing some
of the stories and experiencesof some of the other women that
I met while in the Free BirthSociety's MatriBirth Midwifery
Institute, which I startedaround this time last year.
The purpose of these episodesis not to criticize or dismiss
the choice of a growing numberof women to have free births.
(03:39):
Instead, I want to highlightthe stark difference between the
beautiful and powerful idea ofbirth freedom and the dangerous
ideologies that are promoted bythe free birth society.
There's a lot of misinformationand manipulation that's
happened in this community and Ithink it's important to shed
light on the realities behindthis movement.
(04:00):
Today's birth story guest isVictoria, and she is here to
share all about her beautifulfree birth and her experience
with the Match-A-Birth MidwiferyInstitute.
Hi Victoria, welcome to my MainBirth.
Hey, so to get started, wouldyou share a little bit about you
and your family?
Victoria (04:21):
Yeah, so I live in Gatineau, quebec, which is right
along the river between Quebecand Ontario.
Me and my partner are actuallyfrom the English side, but we've
been living over here for thepast seven years.
It's really beautiful in thisarea.
There's really amazing natureand we don't quite have the
(04:43):
mountains of Maine but we have,like, the Gadno Hills and it's a
really beautiful area.
So we're here with our two dogs, a border collie and a husky,
and our new baby boy, chael, andyeah amazing.
Angela (04:59):
Yeah, oh, that sounds beautiful.
Victoria (05:03):
Yeah, it's wonderful.
Angela (05:04):
Now jumping into birth.
What were some of your views onbirth when you were younger and
growing up?
Victoria (05:12):
I don't think I really thought very much about birth.
I've been trying to reflect onthis a bit and I didn't really
have any strong stories one wayor another growing up.
I mean I had heard that my momdidn't have an epidural stories
one way or another growing up.
I mean I had heard that my momdidn't have an epidural and I
was like, hey, that's prettycool.
(05:32):
Like definitely have alwaysbeen attracted to doing things
the natural way I guess youcould say.
So I was like that's prettybadass, but I didn't really have
the inclination to ask more.
It wasn't like a big talkingpoint in my family and I didn't
(05:56):
really have a strong pull tostart a family at all growing up
, so it just wasn't really on myradar.
The same way, I definitely fell, I think, what I would consider
it's now to be.
Angela (06:13):
I think what I would consider now to be kind of the
trap of the modern woman intojust the working cycle, not
really at all thinking about afamily.
Victoria (06:17):
What sort of things did you do after you finished
high school?
I worked a lot on differentfarms.
I've done a lot of differentthings, like I've worked on a
few different farms, I startedworking in kitchens and worked
my way up to chef and I'veworked in a few different like
design stores, working on makingclothing and just like a lot of
cafes different uh yeah, a lot,I guess service industry kind
(06:43):
of stuff playing around in allsorts of different puddles.
You could say, but uh, yeah, itwasn't really until I guess my
early thirties that I startedthinking like I think it was
like my biological clock too.
You know, they say once you getinto that age it just starts to
become a thing.
(07:04):
So yeah, I didn't really havetoo many narratives going in.
I assumed that I wanted a homebirth and just started looking
into that kind of when the timecame.
Angela (07:18):
Yeah, so how did you find out you were pregnant and
what were your thoughts inchoosing your care when you
found out?
Victoria (07:32):
Okay, well, we, we decided to try to get pregnant.
So I was tracking my cycle.
I'd been doing that for closeto 10 years.
I found that to be a reallyeffective form of birth control.
So I was always very in touchwith when I was ovulating, had a
really regular cycle, reallyblessed in that way.
So, yeah, we tried for abouttwo months and got pregnant on
the second go and yeah, it wasjust kind of a kind of a knowing
(07:56):
, I guess, and excitement andanticipation and just like wow,
it felt like like a timer hadbeen set, like I could feel it
just dawning on me this next ageof my life, you could say.
Angela (08:15):
So I was super excited and yeah, what were your
thoughts when you were choosingyour care?
Victoria (08:28):
you were choosing your care, ah, yes, well, at that
point I had been very muchimmersed into the kind of the
stuff that FBS does purport to.
As far as doing wild pregnancy,I had done a couple of courses
with Kim Inami, who is anotherinternet space holder, you could
say.
I got introduced to her workfirst by doing one of her
programs on like sexuality,because I was just at a place of
(08:52):
wanting to know more about mybody and be more in touch with
how everything was working, andso I really, really enjoyed that
program with her.
And then she had a programcalled Sexy Mama, which I took
right after the first program,and that was a brief
(09:12):
introduction to like wildpregnancy.
Orgasmic birth I guess the wholeorgasmic birth was the main
kind of draw to taking thatprogram.
And she touched on what I nowwould consider to be kind of a
balanced approach to birth likeJews and midwife.
(09:32):
If you want, you couldtechnically go to a hospital,
but you probably won't have anorgasmic birth like it.
Really, really, you need a lotof you know for that.
And then, ultimately, she wasdefinitely a proponent of free
birth as well um, doing it athome, just with your partner, um
(09:52):
, so that was where I firststarted to pick up the language
of like birth being thecontinuation of the sex act in
some ways and just being thisplace that really benefits from,
you know, privacy and just awarm, loving environment.
And so she had a fewsuggestions for doing more
(10:16):
natural care as well and waysthat you could kind of avoid
going and getting too many scansand things like that.
So that was where I was kind ofintroduced to that.
And then I found free birthpretty much on the heels of free
birth society, on the heels ofgetting pregnant, and that just
kind of put everything intofocus a little bit more that I
(10:38):
was definitely having a wildpregnancy.
So, yeah, that's what I did, Iactually pregnancy.
So yeah, that's what I did.
I actually it's a little bittricky to get a doctor here in
Quebec and I don't really findmyself needing to go to the
doctor too often, so I actuallydon't even have a personal
physician at this time.
So I was like cool, no big deal, like I was feeling amazing.
(11:04):
Honestly, I didn't have anysymptoms in the beginning of my
pregnancy other than a littlebit of like meat aversion.
Um, I was feeling amazing.
I did a bunch of cleansing,like leading up to getting
pregnant, and everything wasgoing really well for me.
So it was certainly veryrelaxing and felt very good in
(11:29):
that way.
I didn't really feel a need todo anything.
I got a little bit of melasma.
This was the one thing that Idid end up getting a little bit
of like discoloration on myupper lip, but I wasn't you know
, it was a totally cosmetic kindof side effect, I guess you
could say.
As far as I understand, so yeah, I had a totally wild pregnancy
(11:51):
.
I didn't do anything.
I went to acupuncture a coupleof times and just let it roll.
What?
Angela (11:59):
were your thoughts like as you were discovering Free
Birth Society and kind of, wereyou starting to like to listen
to the podcast or were you doinglike their workshops, or how
did that unfold?
Victoria (12:11):
I was just listening to the podcast.
I had taken a training as adoula back in 2016 and had like
this small understanding ofbirth work.
I attended one birth in thehospital, um, and so at that
point, like fairly early on inmy pregnancy, I was like maybe
I'll get a midwife.
(12:31):
I'm not sure it's super easy toget a midwife up in Canada
because it's all paid for by thegovernment, so it's not really
the same kind of, I guess,stress or investment that it
could be for other women.
Um, so I was actually justlistening to the podcast and I
felt very emboldened by thestories that I could totally do.
(12:54):
This I did.
I did have a deep trust in mybody's abilities and I think
sacred capabilities weresomething that I started to hone
in on.
I'll say this whole journeyreally brought me closer to God
for sure, just dealing with theweight of bearing new life.
(13:18):
It really flipped a switch forme, and so I felt very
emboldened to just do some basicreading but to base a lot of my
research actually on thepodcast, which, looking back,
was like a very bold move indeed.
I fully believe I got verylucky or very protected with
(13:43):
this birth.
Everything went so well.
But yeah, I basically just did alot of my research listening to
birth stories and was very muchaligned with their philosophy
of don't put any negativity inyour head.
You know you are the source,you are the origin of anything
(14:04):
that could go well or bad, youlike your mental that is.
So I definitely bought thathook line and sinker and I was
just immersing myself inpositive first stories.
If I had a potential emergencythat I was concerned about, I
was just like looking at podcastepisodes and being like, okay,
(14:26):
well, this chick pulled it off,you know it'll be fine.
Like I live seven minutes awayfrom a hospital, worst case.
And uh, yeah, I did have mymother's support.
She was, she was really sweet,she did the guide to free birth
that's just a way to support meand she kind of tried to wrap
(14:49):
her head around what I was doingand it's the first grandchild
coming in and so that was reallyreally loving and sweet of her
to do.
I felt really supported by that.
But I didn't do it myself andyou know my partner had this
very calm, still kind of support.
He was like, yeah, you can, youcan do this, like I'm not
(15:11):
worried about it, like he wasvery chill about it too.
So you know that just all linedright up and yeah, that was
kind of my my birth prep wasjust listening to a lot of
podcasts.
Honestly, I don't know if Iwould recommend it, but hey here
(15:32):
we are oh man, you know thatbeginner's luck is a thing I
think I don't really know.
I'm still really grappling withthat, honestly so it is.
Angela (15:43):
It's such a hard thing because, like in many cases,
like birth just works totallyfine, but like then obviously
there's some things that aremaybe a little more than just a
variation of normal righttotally and even if they are a
variation of normal.
Victoria (15:59):
I've come to realize now, since going through the
birth experience, like I don'tknow if I would necessarily be
grounded enough to to hold that,to be able to decipher in some
cases I'm not sure I've.
Uh, I found this wholeexperience to be very sobering.
(16:21):
You, it's one thing tointellectualize and only focus
on the good beforehand, and thenthere's the other experience of
like going through the birthprocess and like the reality of
holding my baby in my arms nowand like what if something had
happened to him.
Angela (16:40):
It's so, it's still tripping me out a little bit and
yeah, I love that your mom wasso supportive that she took the
whole complete guide to freebirth like that's amazing oh, it
really is.
Victoria (16:54):
Yeah, yeah, I was super blessed by that so what
were her thoughts?
do you remember like when shewas, like some conversations you
might have had like during yourpregnancy, like as she was
going through that course at all, or I mean, she has a tendency
at this time in our relationshipnot to come on too strong about
things, because I think we'vehad a bit of a push and pull
(17:18):
over our lives together of meprobably not really responding
very well to too much criticismand just like withdrawing.
So she was very, very delicateabout it.
But she did yeah, she didexpress like I don't really
understand what you're doing.
You know, and her births wereall in the hospital and they
(17:41):
were uneventful.
They were, they went well.
So I think for her, the impetusto do something so potentially
radical or drastic, she couldn'treally really quite understand
that and part of me didn'treally either.
I think that I recognize inmyself that I have been drawn to
(18:03):
some more extreme poles ofvarious topics throughout my
life and I did feel very deeplyin my heart that this was going
to work out, really felt likebirth is God's design and you
know why shouldn't we trust ourbodies?
Like that's the whole catch 22of this.
(18:23):
I do believe that is true.
You know, if shouldn't we trustour bodies?
Like it's the whole catch-22.
I do believe that is true.
You know, if you thinksomething's going to fail,
chances are it will fail.
But, yeah, she was very tenderand stepping lightly around it,
but it really brought us closer.
It was really awesome,definitely brought us closer in
our relationship.
(18:44):
And here we are on the otherside of it and it certainly has
impacted just the way that I,you all women honestly just
having a baby, you start toappreciate how personalized all
of these birth choices reallyare.
And that was really humblingand really appropriate for me to
(19:10):
experience, because I think Idid have a lot of judgment
around that at various times inmy life.
Just thinking like this is theonly way to go, like similar to
what a lot of the free birthsociety dogma kind of
illuminates, is that it's likethe enlightened kind of choice,
you know.
Angela (19:27):
So yeah, so for the last weeks and then days leading up
to like when your labor startedlooking like well, I stopped
working.
Victoria (19:35):
I was working a pretty demanding job.
I was a chef and so I wasstanding a lot and so I was
getting tired towards the end.
The kitchen was incredibly hotand so I was really, really
excited to just be home andresting and sitting in the AC
and relaxing, just doing a lotof connecting with my body and
(19:56):
my baby and doing acupunctureand just visualizing my birth
and getting all of the thingsready.
And, yeah, it was a reallyrelaxing, sacred time, a time
that, now that I have a baby, Ican't picture ever having again.
It was like such a sweet treat.
(20:17):
I don't know if I appreciatedquite how much I could relax
with that first baby, but it wasawesome.
You know, I felt really good.
I had like just some mild legcramps and, yeah, I was getting
up a lot to pee, but you know,telling myself like this is,
this is probably like trainingfor when my baby's going to be
(20:38):
up all the time and so reallyjust getting myself in the
headspace of welcoming my new,my new baby, and I really had a
feeling that he was a boy prettyearly on, so I was just talking
to him using his name.
You know all the sweet lovingsthat, yeah, mama's do.
So, yeah, it was prettyseamless the last few weeks,
(21:01):
just relaxing.
Angela (21:03):
Yeah, so how did your labor start?
Victoria (21:07):
So a little bit of backstory.
My partner was working at a jobthat was about an hour and a
half away at the time and ourcar had broken down on the
Friday of the week and so he hadbeen like rushing around
looking for a new car becausethis one was just done.
(21:28):
It was like not able to befixed, and so it was Tuesday.
He had like taken a couple ofdays off to like try to find a
car.
Things kept falling through andhe finally finds this car late
Tuesday and drives it home andwe go for a little, a little joy
(21:49):
ride.
Like close to midnight and Idon't know what the gentleman
who sold him the car was reallyhoping for, but basically right
after Corey had paid for the car, I think he went home and got
something he needed, but hedoused the car in so much air
freshener it was just wild.
(22:11):
It was like okay, like wealready bought the car, like
it's okay, you don't need to dothat.
So, anyways, after this likevery short ride, we were both
like we need to get out of thiscar, like can't handle this.
My hair smelled so stronglylike air freshener.
I was like, wow, this is wild,like I'm just gonna try to go to
sleep.
I'm starting to get a headache,so went to sleep, woke up like
(22:35):
earlier in the morning, beforehe had to go back to work, just
had like a wig and headache andmy hair just like reeks like air
freshener.
It was just wild.
So I decided to try to take ashower and wash it off and that
worked somewhat.
But I went back to bed and wokeup later in the morning.
(22:57):
My nephew is going to come andwalk the dogs, so I was waiting
for him to arrive and you knowyoung teens, he kept shuffling
the time.
So I'm just kind of like okay,well, he's going to show up,
whatever at some point to walkthe dogs and that'll be great.
And then around noon I was 12,30 or so I started to get like
(23:17):
full on contractions, just likecompletely out of nowhere.
And I'm still kind of lying onthe couch trying to like recover
from this headache and I willsay contractions are a perfect
headache remedy.
My headache completely wentaway in that moment.
I was after the first one.
(23:38):
It was completely gone and Iwas like holy moly, that's a
contraction.
I was really taken aback.
You know like this, this commonjargon that oh, it's just like
a period cramp or something, andit's not.
It's really not.
So I went right into activelabor.
My next contraction was likeroughly four minutes after that
(24:01):
and the next one was threeminutes after that and I was
like, okay, I had about fivecontractions.
And then I called Corey and Iwas like, okay, you're gonna
have to head home because I mean, you might want to rest.
You know, I wasn't sure wherethings were gonna go, but he had
been, you know, up so muchlooking for this car.
I was like, for sure he'll beable to come and chill out a
(24:22):
little bit.
So he's like OK, great, I'm onmy way.
He got home a couple hourslater and after I hung up with
him I was like there's no way Ican see my nephew right now.
Like I just texted him and Iwas like no, please don't come
over.
It's all good, the dogs will befine.
(24:42):
I'm going to try to fill up mybathtub and just work through
this.
I had had the plan to fill up alittle birth tub, but I was not
game for that at all.
They were coming on so strong.
Uh, I had a really hard timegetting comfortable through the
whole labor, uh, you know allthese little plans that I had
(25:05):
made, my birthing ball, mybirthing tub, nothing felt good.
It was, uh, it was on, and Ithink the position I felt the
best in really was kind of justlike gripping onto my knees and
like a semi squat, and so I didthat as much as I could.
(25:27):
I hung off off my pull up bar alittle bit and it just felt
like things stayed at that pacefor for quite a while.
Stayed at that pace for forquite a while.
Yeah, corey got home and my dogswere both just like side eyes,
like what's going on, like myhusky was so taken aback and my
(25:48):
border collie was really sweet.
She followed me around likeeverywhere.
I went, like from the bathroomto the bedroom just kind of
quietly with my shadow the wholetime.
Your doggy doula, my doggydoula, yeah, my, my midwife so
many cute names for it.
So that was a blessing and Imean I had also envisioned maybe
(26:11):
Corey would be there rubbing myback.
Nope, did not want that.
He tried a few times and I waslike nope, nope, don't touch me,
this is not, this is not thevibe right now.
So, yeah, things just progressedand my water broke around 530,
I think Roughly.
I wasn't keeping track at thatpoint, but I think it was around
(26:33):
then and then just began theslow dance of crowning, which I
actually did not understand atthe time.
I was like, okay, I can feelhis head a little bit and I'd be
like Corey, do you see anything?
Like he's like no, no, I don'tsee anything.
And then I'm like, oh no, Iwent back again.
(26:53):
I added after the contraction,like I was very much just
letting my body do all thepushing that felt.
That felt like enough, but thatwas.
That was very puzzling for me,like I did not do the research
on what crowning was.
So after after a little while ofthat maybe an hour and a half
(27:15):
or so I did get to the pointwhere I was like I think I'm
gonna have to push this baby out, and so I prepared to do that.
I was able to get all onto allfours, which had felt really
terrible up until then, but Iwas able to manage it at that
point and just I guess, leadingup to that, once I made that
(27:40):
decision that I was going tohave to push him out, I was so
scared I was like you know what?
Like I don't want to push himout, I don't want to tear, like
I had this narrative going in myhead and and then I do remember
hitting transition somewhere inthere and just exclaiming like
(28:01):
I can't do this, like I can't dothis for much longer, and Corey
had been in the other room kindof just trying to relax and I
don't think he even realizedthat I heard him, but he said
under his breath like well then,who's gonna do it?
That was exactly what I neededto hear.
I was like, okay, you know what, you're right, I'm just going
(28:22):
to do this.
Like it's going to work out,this is what's got to happen.
So, yeah, I was like, okay, I'mgoing to start pushing.
So I pushed for two contractions.
His head came out the first,and then his body the second and
wow, it was so amazing, coreywas there there, he caught him
and I will say actually inbetween those two contractions
(28:44):
there was probably the longestbreak that I had in my labor.
His head was out and I was justwaiting for the next
contraction and it didn't come.
Didn't come.
It was about eight minutesactually between when his head
and his body came out, because Iwas just waiting for that
contraction and yeah, but itfinally came and he was crying
(29:09):
right away.
I didn't even get to grab himsoon enough, but he was, yeah,
just pink little baby cryingright away.
His cord was like a little bitshort but I could still just
kiss the top of his head and,wow, it was so amazing.
My dogs were there, my partnerwas there.
(29:30):
It was just so peaceful andslow and that first hour just
completely dissolved.
I don't remember that timepassing at all.
It was just really amazing.
So, yeah, it was so fortunateand just such an amazing
(29:50):
experience.
How did your placenta birth?
So, I guess, when we realizedthat it had been about an hour,
I was like, okay, let's go tothe bathtub and I'm going to
just see what's going on.
And he was holding the baby andI just got into the tub and just
started to try to pull on thecord a little bit and was really
(30:14):
taken aback by how the cordfelt.
It's like what a strange feeling.
But I was like, okay, I can dothis and just bear down and and
push the placenta out, and atthat point I released a lot of
blood.
I hadn't been bleeding at allup until that time and so I
released a lot of blood when theplacenta came out and started
(30:38):
to feel it started to just feela little bit agitated, getting a
little bit impatient, and I wasexpecting Corey to do something
and he didn't do it quickenough.
He was like whoa, whoa, whoa.
So it was interesting.
I really felt that switch whenI lost all of that blood, which
was interesting.
I don't know if it was just thevisual I'm still interested to
(31:01):
dive into the mechanics of thata little bit but yeah, it came
right out, did a little placentaprint and cut the cord and yeah
, it was a very, very easyprocess for me.
Angela (31:17):
Amazing, oh my goodness.
So was your like immediatepostpartum it was really sweet.
Victoria (31:24):
I was very much taken aback at you know the next
couple of days, how much painset into my body.
I was for sure, on that birthhigh for the first you know
earth, high for the first, youknow, 36 hours or so I was like,
oh, I can't wait to do thisagain.
(31:45):
Like, just like.
And then the next day I waslike, wow, my butthole feels
like its soul has left my body.
Like I did have some someprolapse going on there, so that
was I had completely forgottenabout that, I was not really
expecting it, and so I was like,okay, I know what this is, but
(32:06):
was not not envisioning it to bethis way.
So I was able to do a littlebit of acupuncture using like
some moxibustion and able tohelp resolve that a little bit.
But that was an interestingnavigation, for sure I didn't
tear, so everything else youknow went pretty smoothly.
(32:31):
I mean that first pee is likealso not something you're really
expecting or you can't reallyprepare for, but a whole par for
the course.
So all in all it was.
It was a pretty smooth um timeof recovery.
I I thought that jail hadlatched, fine, but we found out
(32:56):
in the coming months.
It was about a month he wasn'tgaining like a ton of weight and
so did a little bit moredigging, and I think it was
closer to his two-month markthat I had started to reach out
to some local La Leche Leagueteam members and I had been
(33:18):
hanging out with a girlfriendand she was like, oh, his latch
doesn't seem right.
And I'm like, oh, okay, um, soI basically had his lip kind of
curled in and he wasn't gettingenough, and so I went home from
that hangout and I was like,okay, I'm gonna just pump and
see what I'm producing.
(33:38):
And it was so low, I was likebarely producing anything,
basically because he was justnot stimulating it enough with
the poor latch.
So that was really reallyemotional for me.
Going through all of that andbeing like, wow, I was really
riding high, I think, on onfumes and I feel like I just
(34:01):
totally washed over.
This super important part of myfirst step as a mother is like
feeding my baby, and sothankfully, everything got, of
course, corrected in time.
I put him on formula for a bit,which again was something I was
(34:21):
like really, really judgingmyself for, which is so silly.
Looking back, there's a lot ofa lot of pressure that I didn't
need to put on myself.
But again, some of theseideological groups that I
surrounded myself by it was likeformula, formula that's
disgusting.
Why would you ever give yourbaby that?
(34:42):
Like, can you think abouteating formula?
Like I had all these linesrunning in my head and I was
yeah, I I definitely dug myselfa bit of a bit of a hole with
that one, but then again it wassomething that I needed to kind
of bring me back to reality andsoften my heart towards towards
(35:03):
myself and to women in general.
And thankfully he was fine anddidn't take too long before my
supply was up again and, yeah, Ireally got to experience a bit
more community.
I think that was something Irecognized through my birth and
my birth experience ofpostpartum that I did not have
(35:27):
sufficiently.
So that was how I began to tolearn.
That is like, well, if I hadmore people around me, maybe
somebody would have kind of seenthe latch earlier.
You know all all these things,but for the most part it was.
It was a truly blissful time.
My partner was able to take offa little bit of time at the
(35:47):
beginning there and it was sosweet just hanging out all of us
as a new family and integratingwith my dogs.
And yeah, I'm, he's just overone year now and I'm starting to
have little flashes of feelinglike myself again.
But yeah, I'm, he's just overone year now and I'm starting to
have little flashes of feelinglike myself again.
But yeah, it was also awhirlwind, I realized, going
through MMI for a good portionof my postpartum.
(36:09):
So, looking back, I I'm notsure if I would do something
like that again.
For me it's been just such anamazing time to learn how to be
present, having a baby.
Angela (36:22):
Yeah, oh, my goodness.
So what month was your son born?
Victoria (36:28):
He was born mid July, july 17.
Angela (36:30):
So so when did you make the decision to sign up for MMI?
Was it when your pregnancy, orwas it just after?
Victoria (36:38):
It was during my pregnancy, so I kind of got
initiated into all of theirdogma and I was like, wow, like
I love birth, Like I think mybirth is gonna go great, Like
maybe this will be something Icould do as a mom, you know, not
really embracing the notion ofstaying at home fully in my head
(37:01):
.
I think I wanted to do that inmy heart, but in my head I was
like, no, I'm going to like work, you know, like whatever.
So I thought, oh, this would bea really great thing to do and
was totally swept away intoEmily and Yolanda land and it
was like, oh for sure, I want todo this.
Angela (37:22):
Yeah.
So when you say like this iswhat I wanted to do, and you're
kind of thinking about it likeas a job, like what were you
envisioning, like you wanted.
Victoria (37:31):
Well, I, like I mentioned, I had taken a doula
program back in 2016.
I attended one hospital birthand at that point I had been
toying with the idea of taking alicensed midwifery program and
for some reason it didn't.
It just didn't click.
When the time came to choosewhat I wanted to put that money
(37:54):
towards, I chose acupuncture,and that was in 2020.
And, long story short, I wasn'table to finish the acupuncture
because COVID came along mynatural school that swore they
weren't going to implement thevaccine mandates, ended up doing
that, and so I had to drop outpartway through.
(38:16):
I decided to drop out part waythrough.
I decided to drop out part waythrough and then I got pregnant,
you know, pretty soon afterthat.
So I was in a bit of a limbowith where I wanted to go and
finding free birth society andjust really resonating with a
lot of their interpretation ofwhat birth really was.
(38:39):
I was like, oh, this is amazing.
I think this is why I waited todo midwifery school.
That was really present for me.
I was like this is the programI was waiting for.
You know, this gold standard,holistic immersion into
midwifery.
This is perfect, like it's aone-year program, it's.
(39:01):
I mean it's expensive, but it'scertainly much less of an
investment than doing afour-year program up here.
And yeah, that was that wasvery much how it appeared.
To me is like this was theprogram I was actually waiting
for.
So, yeah, I decided to do it.
All those pregnancy hormoneslike dissolving my gray matter
(39:26):
as I made the decision.
Angela (39:29):
So were you curious when your mom was taking their
complete guide to free birth?
Had you watched any of thevideos like before you decided
to sign up or no, I didn't.
Victoria (39:38):
I like was literally just listening to the podcast
and, like, maybe watching a fewthings on Instagram here and
there.
Angela (39:46):
So you're on the email list with all of that marketing.
Victoria (39:49):
Yeah, definitely, yeah , yeah, definitely in there.
Angela (39:54):
So, so what were your thoughts as things got started?
So what?
Victoria (39:57):
were your thoughts as things got started?
Well, I felt again like my egowas coming through so strongly
because I was like, yeah, I justhad a free birth, like my first
baby, like I mean it was uh, itfelt like the place I needed to
be.
I was like a hundred percentbirth works.
Any woman can do this, like I.
(40:22):
I mean, I just researched usingpodcasts and it worked out for
me.
You know, everything wasconfirming my bias that this was
the way to do things.
I was digging it.
I can't, I can't go back andlike deny that version of myself
.
Looking back, I really can't.
I was, I was super into it.
(40:44):
I mean, there's many aspects ofthat school that were really
awesome and, on point, the selfmastery tools.
They make complete sense thatyou should, you know, get your
own stuff under control andcertainly something that I was
realizing I needed to work on asa new mom and being flooded
(41:06):
with all the emotions and allthe things and holding space.
That was something that I wasparticularly attracted to
learning more about how toembody.
And so you know, there was alot of truth in that first
quarter and the mentorship podswere amazing, like just being
under our pod leaders, influence, and it was just wonderful
(41:31):
meeting all of you women whowere so like-minded and so
inspiring to me as a new mom aswell.
I was just like wow, like thesewomen are so amazing and I just
really want to emulate andlearn from all of them, not just
Emily and Yolanda but I wasreally feeling my cup was filled
in that in that aspect.
(41:51):
You know, I've decided to livein an area that the main
language is French and I don'tspeak French, and so I was able
to kind of bypass that a littlebit before having a baby.
But since having a baby, beingout and about in my area, I'm
feeling that a lot more just thelanguage barrier.
(42:12):
So I was naturally drawn tothis online space even harder.
Yeah, for better or for worse.
I mean, I truly have met someamazing women through all of
this.
So that was the big part.
That I really really enjoyedwas that and the accountability
partner meetings every month.
So on the outset everything wasgoing really well and it's funny
(42:35):
actually, my partner didcomment pretty early on because
there's so much content.
I was just listening to thelectures like all the time he's
like I don't like these women,like what's going on with them
like, why do they have thisattitude?
Like, like they're, they'rerude, like, and I was like what,
(42:58):
no, like, I totally just likewas not, was not on that
timeline yet of reallyunderstanding what I now would
kind of call like the strongdisgust factor that I see as a
current running through a lot oftheir approach.
And I think that it wassomething that I actually
(43:24):
aligned with at that time in mylife and that's why I wasn't
really able to see it so very,very humbling to go through that
journey of understanding.
Like, like, why was I reallydrawn to these women?
Why was I enraptured by theirteachings and them as people?
(43:46):
And, um, that was something thatI've identified in the times,
in the months since is like, forsome reason, I was really drawn
to that kind of indignantjudgment that was coursing
through the veins of thatprogram and became very hard to
ignore once we got into theanatomy physiology quarter, just
(44:09):
looking back their disrespectfor any other kind of medical
professional, other kind ofmedical professional it's not,
not sisterly, I don't thinkwhich, ironically, was a huge, I
think, uh, overshadowing that Idon't know.
It gave the impression thatthis was like all this sisterly
(44:31):
stuff that we're doing, you know, throughout the program and in
the end not very sisterly, we'rejust not very respectful.
So yeah, it was once we gotinto quarter two that every
single video just seemed to kindof end up with the same results
.
It was like, well, you know, ifyou're enlightened enough, like
(44:52):
, your birth will go perfectlyfine, and so that at that time
definitely was inflating my egoas well.
I was like, well, I just hadthis rebirth and it was fine,
like um.
So there was a lot of tug-of-warthat was happening with me
because I was recognizing thatthe content was lacking as far
(45:18):
as like real actionableopportunities for any of these
problems like hemorrhaging oh itjust doesn't happen, okay.
Breech births, oh they just.
You don't have to worry aboutit.
You know, as long as yourenergy is on point, as long as
you are maintaining thatself-mastery that we've been
(45:38):
teaching you and that weobviously follow, you're going
to be fine.
So starting to grapple with theweight of that pressure by the
end of that second quarter waslike I can't do birth work, I am
not holy enough to do birthwork.
It did certainly flip for meand I was like I don't want
(45:59):
birth work, I am not holy enoughto do birth work.
It did certainly flip for meand I was like I don't want to
mess up somebody else's birth,like I have my shit, like I'm
not I'm not holy enough to dobirth work.
That was like the place Ilanded myself in and it was
really refreshing to cometogether with the other women
(46:20):
who were feeling this consensuslack of of the content as well.
So, yeah, it was interestinghow it started to shift for me.
Angela (46:31):
What were your thoughts after the class where Yolanda
basically trauma dumped oneveryone after she had just
supported a difficult birth andsummed it all up to if any of us
are going to attend births, weneed to be prepared to go to
jail and shifted into.
We should all just really focuson online birth coaching after
we'd all just signed up for whatwas advertised and sold as the
(46:52):
world's leading sovereignmidwifery school, like we didn't
sign up for the world's leadingbirth coaching school.
Victoria (46:59):
That really shocked me .
I was like what?
She's not practicing birthanymore now.
Like has she not been to birthsthat have gone bad?
Like what is this really?
What is this showing about her?
And then, at the same time, Iwas also like, well, I mean, I
wasn't really gonna go to birthright away, like for sure.
(47:20):
Like the coaching is a goodthing for me to start with.
So that was something that Ihad come to terms with as well.
Throughout the program.
I had been hoping to attend oneof my sister's upcoming births
and then slowly realized, likeI'm not going to have the space
to do that with my new baby.
I'm not going to feelcomfortable enough.
(47:41):
Yeah, leaving him.
That was not the way I wantedto do things at the time, so
part of it was a little bit likeokay, I mean I don't want to go
to jail, so I guess, yeah, I'lljust do the coaching.
Like it certainly had a strongeffect on me.
That call is very bizarre.
Looking back, everything's morebizarre looking back.
Angela (48:05):
So you started to notice the course content was lacking
in the midwifery section andthat was about the time when a
lot of women started to connectand get on calls to talk about
it.
And I think there was a groupemail that was sent to the
teachers.
That was kind of like maybe youcould add on this information
to the course at some point,like we would all be fine with
that, but we are noticing thatthis information is lacking and
(48:27):
we do want this information.
And a lot of women werecommenting that there was less
information in MatriBirthMidwifery Institute than there
was in the Complete Guide toFree Birth.
So the sentiment was like wenoticed a lot of information is
missing, but if you could add iton, like we're okay with that.
What was your experience duringthis time?
Victoria (48:49):
That felt like it was going to be enough.
I was like, yep, I'm happy tocontinue with this program.
I was getting, like I said, alot of benefit from it at that
time.
So I was like, yeah, for sure,Like these women care about
women, they're going to, ofcourse, respond positively and
understand where we're comingfrom.
(49:10):
And for me it felt like maybethis course is being displayed
by them.
It was their inaugural year,you know.
There were so many things thatwere going through my head.
I was like, well, maybe they'vejust they're just so
experienced that they don'treally get what it feels like
for somebody who isn'texperienced.
And this must just be anoversight, you know.
(49:30):
Know, I was like totallyhopeful that that things were
going to get resolved andcertainly the way that a couple
of our fellow studentsapproached them was so
respectful, so well thought out,well written.
It was not like an emotionalrant during a class.
It it was like very thoughtful,genuinely concerned and truly
(49:56):
supported by the network ofstudents.
So it was.
It was interesting to see howthings spiraled out of control
pretty quickly.
For sure, it's not not what Iwas expecting at all.
Sure, it's not not what I wasexpecting at all.
Yeah, and around that same time,four of the pod mentors all
(50:19):
left like at the same time, andone of them was our pod mentor,
right, yep, that was a hugecatalyst for me to start to
dislike the program as well.
Yeah, for some reason I totallyforgot about that, but that was
like a big deal for me.
I just adored our pod leaderand, uh, those, those meetings
were my very favorite.
I really felt like that waswhere I was getting a ton of
benefit from as well.
So that became very interestingto see their response to that.
(50:44):
I remember posting in the mightynetwork being like you know,
I'm not, I'm finding this to bea little bit destabilizing.
Like can we have a meeting totalk about this?
Emily and Yolanda, please Canwe talk about what's going on?
Because at the time our mentorswere just very like hush hush
about it.
They were like sorry, you gotto go, like don't want to get
(51:08):
involved, and all credit to themfor that.
But then Emily and Yolanda justresponded like no, there's
nothing going on.
Like what do you mean?
Like people leave?
Angela (51:19):
They all left for different reasons.
Victoria (51:21):
It was unrelated.
Yeah totally Like just totallygaslighting them.
And that was where it startedto become a little more apparent
.
You know what the intentionswere for Emily and Yolanda.
What I can assume were justtheir modus operatum, yeah, so
that was disheartening.
And then to see other fellowstudents just getting kicked out
(51:46):
left, right and center, alsofrom our pod group, it was like
just felt like blow after blowin a way and really, really
downgraded my experience of thewhole thing I think
understandably so.
And then I felt like it was abit of a slap in the face.
They agreed to have thismeeting to kind of join our
hearts I think that was thelanguage that was used.
(52:09):
Once they had joined our heartsin connection, you know, as
sisters, like once they hadkicked out all of the women who
had been pointedly standing upto them and I was like, oh yeah,
of course asking questions likeare you going to teach anything
about midwifery and themidwifery school that you
(52:30):
promoted and advertised like assuch?
Exactly Well and like, becauseit started off so genuine and
respectful, like I said, andthen I think once they kind of
brushed that off it was it beganto become like well, you are a
fraud, like you are notmarketing this course properly,
(52:52):
and surely they felt reallyshaken up by that realization.
So, yeah, it definitely gotintense.
It was a big investment for somany women and I can understand
why women stayed in the programas well.
I don't doubt that some of thewomen who did not leave at the
(53:14):
time that I chose to leave, orwomen got kicked out.
I don't doubt that some of themwere dissatisfied with the
program.
But it is such a hugeinvestment Like I only had a
couple of payments left by thetime I quit in April.
And what can you do?
Angela (53:35):
When did you know for sure that you had to withdraw
from the program?
Victoria (53:39):
It was shortly after this joining our hearts call, I
spoke up in that class and justasked a few questions about like
why did you feel like it wasnecessary to kick these women
out?
I wanted to know.
And Emily and Yolanda bothturned on me pretty quickly and
they were like well, you're onlyasking that because you're
(54:01):
clearly like ignorant ofbusiness and like of course we
would do that, like it's ourright to do it.
You know, they just got verydefensive and basically made it
seem like these women really hadnothing going for them and they
were just being littletroublemakers.
(54:21):
And that was very strange tosee.
And as well in that call therewas some attempt by one of our
fellow students to kind of rallysome support for a woman who
had lost her baby in a freebirth, who had been part of the
program, and that was respondedto by like no, that would be
(54:47):
rude, like that would beinvasive, why would you do that?
And it was just really bizarreafter we had been taking classes
about supporting women throughlaws and like well, what else
are you gonna do?
Are you just gonna brush thatunder the rug?
Like is that how you actuallydeal with supporting a woman
(55:10):
with loss.
It was uh, so it felt veryhypocritical and not like sound
logic.
It just started to feel likemaybe what I was being taught
was not actually being embodiedby this woman.
Angela (55:23):
For sure, maybe what your husband said at the
beginning, right, like, let's goback to listening to our
husbands, like all of us all ofour husbands, I think, said this
at the beginning of the programalso.
Victoria (55:33):
Yeah, and I actually, on that note, that's been an
interesting journey that I'vegone through recently is really
understanding what it looks liketo be a respectful wife,
because I think a lot of oursocietal programming does really
push this like independentwoman, vibe and like feminist,
(55:53):
you got this girl and I reallythink it's toxic for
relationships.
Personally, maybe it's just theage and maturity that I'm at,
but it hasn't worked for me andmy relationship and it's really
illuminated, you know, areasthat I'm just trying to control
really and not surrendering,like speaking of surrendering
and birth, it's likesurrendering is a whole thing.
(56:16):
It's not, it's not just in onearea of your life.
And I was taken aback a coupleof times.
I heard these women talk abouttheir husbands in a little bit
of a disrespectful way.
In a little bit of adisrespectful way was my
impression, and yeah, so it's.
(56:42):
I think it's interesting thatmaybe I was drawn to that at
that time because I was somewhatin alignment with it.
So, yeah, starting to break freefrom that rebellious nature was
a huge part of my healing, ofcoming out of this program, and
something that I did notice wasbeing emulated by these women.
But that call really reallykind of sobered me up, you could
say, and especially chattingwith you women after that and
(57:06):
just really, just reallywitnessing that flip-flop of
these, really just reallywitnessing that flip-flop of
these, of these two, these twoleaders who are spouting so much
about sisterhood and thenacting like it's so off base and
like you know, sisterhood isearned like it was just too much
hypocrisy for me to reallycontinue.
(57:28):
I I had reached a point where Iwas like I don't even want to
go to class anymore, like whywould I stay in this program?
And was starting to reallyunderstand what motherhood was
requiring of me and settlingmore into a knowing that I
wanted to focus on that insteadof trying to be a boss, babe.
(57:48):
And really again coming back tothis, like I guess you could
call it traditional relationshiproles of like putting my
husband on the pedestal of beingthe provider and really sinking
into that and so that's, Ithink, a place that I want to go
right now in my life.
And so, yeah, it was just, itwas like I don't, I don't need
this anymore, I'm just going toget pissed off.
(58:10):
I think being in class now andyeah, too many stories about
about what other people werefeeling, and anyway, just
decided it was not the where Iwanted to spend my energy.
Basically, after that call,yeah, definitely.
Angela (58:28):
How have your views on birth shifted to like where you
are now, like right now, likewhat are your views on birth?
Victoria (58:34):
Oh man, it was like the education I was not
expecting, but the one that Ireally needed for sure.
I feel so much less judgmenttowards women.
I've finally been able to likeshed that at a very deep heart
level and start to understandthat birth is.
I do believe it's designed towork, but you know, women are
(58:57):
all at different places and theyhave different conditioning and
different experiences, andwhat's comfortable for one woman
is not comfortable for another,and that's like, really, I
think what is at the heart of abirth going as I guess maybe
nature intended it.
We could say it's notsuccessful is not the right word
Having a beautiful birth.
It's not my business to tellany woman what she should be
(59:21):
doing or what should feel goodfor her, just like it's.
Nobody can tell me what feelsgood for me in that way, and so
I've really been brought down anotch, and I understand that
that is really what's going tohelp me if I decide to serve
women in this capacity in thefuture, with women in the way
(59:53):
that I need to in order to dothis work.
And so that prayer wasdefinitely answered in such a
different way than I expected,and as far as having my own
babies again.
It's been interesting toreflect on that, what I will do.
I definitely recognize that I'dlike to get more training in
birth.
I hopped into Adelaide MeadowsBorn Through Movement course and
(01:00:16):
it's been amazing.
It's like what I learned in thefirst video.
The preamble of this course waslike what I was looking for in
the physiology section.
It was the tip of the iceberg,really, and so that was just a
huge blessing to realize thatyou know, you don't have to pay
(01:00:36):
an arm and a leg to learn realinformation, and I think that
that is going to be something Iwould use as a red flag
identifier.
Moving forward with who I chooseeducation from is like if
they're trying to, you know,consider what the price tag is
here, ladies like so yeah, it'ssomething that I do recognize I
(01:00:57):
want to get more training on ifI'm gonna have my own free birth
and my partner's like no, wecan totally do it.
Like it's cool.
So he's like, don't doubtyourself.
Like so I really appreciatethat energy coming from him as
well.
But what I also realized, Ithink, is I have been pushing
away like I guess, sisterhood,the true sisterhood, and
(01:01:20):
community in a way in my lifethat I would like to experience
differently next time around.
I think it would be a hugeblessing to have somebody there
to help clean up and, you know,just do little things like that
that I don't think I was in aplace of receiving before.
So just the beauty of, yeah,women witnessing women is
something I'm excited toexperience in my next birth.
(01:01:44):
And, you know, without thepressure of thinking that
they're there to judge me,that's totally been lifted now
and, yeah, I feel so much morefree.
I just there's something aboutlosing that judgment.
You know that's really gone along way for me.
Angela (01:01:59):
Not the education we were expecting, but this was
really just what a lot of uskind of maybe did need.
Victoria (01:02:06):
Yep, a hundred percent .
It was a big wake up call, Ithink, for a lot of women.
And, yep, it's an interestingtime to be alive and to have
access to the Internet and justthe amount of information we
have access to.
It comes with theresponsibility, ultimately, to
not get too emotional about yourinvestments, to really take
(01:02:27):
your time, I think.
And, yeah, you're never goingto be faulted for taking your
time, I think.
And yeah, you're never gonna befaulted for taking your time
with making decisions, and theinternet certainly can prey upon
that.
That quick dopamine hit, youknow.
So, yeah, exactly, exactly.
So I see birth work now assomething I might do kind of in
(01:02:49):
my my crone era, think I.
I would love to serve women inthat way and it's certainly been
a thread for me of interest inmy life.
So right now I'm focused onjust raising my family and I
felt a real call to finish mystudies in traditional Chinese
medicine.
I just adore that framework andI felt a lot of healing from
(01:03:12):
that wisdom and knowing and it'ssuper applicable to kids.
It's just like kind of what I'mfeeling right now.
So I think that's where I'mgonna focus my energies for the
time being.
Did you like the Wapios programat all?
I did, yeah, I went on the callwith a few of a few of the
women from MMI and we were justlistening to that program and
(01:03:35):
that sounds like the one stopshop that I was really looking
for.
I know you're taking it, isthat correct?
Yeah, yeah, so it seems amazing.
Angela (01:03:45):
Yeah, it really is everything that I originally
like was looking for in MMI andyeah, it's like we weren't
looking for this medical, allthis medical stuff, but we
wanted to know about physiologicbirth, you know, like we wanted
to know.
Like you know, like youmentioned, about your placenta
coming out.
You're like I, you know, Iwanted to know more about, like
maybe, what was actuallyhappening, like during that
process.
Victoria (01:04:05):
Yeah, no, it's important to know, and like it's
not enough to be teaching eachother in this program.
I felt like that was anotherthing that stood out to me.
It was like one of the mainassignments we had about
learning about the hormones.
We were just teaching eachother, we weren't gaining it
from the content that wasprovided, and so it's just
anyway.
(01:04:25):
Yeah.
Now you know hindsight's 2020,they say.
So I find that reallyencouraging to hear that
somebody like yourself, who'sbeen to so many births already
that Wapio is really it's reallyfilling the gap that you felt
like you needed.
So that's encouraging.
Angela (01:04:43):
Thank you so much, Victoria, for taking the time to
chat with me today and shareyour story.
Victoria (01:04:49):
Oh, thank you so much.
It's a pleasure to be sharingit here and share your story.
Oh, thank you so much.
It's a pleasure to be sharingit here Before you go.
Angela (01:04:54):
I just want to remind you I have a ton of resources
for pregnancy and birth.
If you're pregnant, whetheryou're a first-time mom or if
this is your fifth baby, I wantyou to check out the show notes
because I have some freetrainings and free downloads
that you can sign up for, aswell as the link to access my
Labor of Love, a comprehensive,self-paced online childbirth
(01:05:15):
education course.
I created this coursespecifically for moms who don't
want to be told what to do,regardless of where you're
birthing or who you're birthingwith, and I'd honestly love to
teach you everything that I knowso that you can prepare for an
autonomous birth experience andprepare to step into your role
as the leader of your birthjourney.
(01:05:36):
So click to the show notes,check out all of those links and
, if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at my main
birth over on Instagram.
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