August 22, 2024 • 31 mins
In this episode of Mysteries and Mimosas, we delve into a chilling case that unfolded in the early hours of December 3, 1982, in Jackson County, Mississippi. Witnesses reported seeing a distressed woman in a blue plaid shirt and jeans carrying a toddler along Highway 63, later spotted walking on Interstate 10. Two days later, a truck driver discovered the woman’s body floating face down in the Pascagoula River—though, intriguingly, her body was never recovered. Instead, a toddler was found alone along the riverbank. Join us as we unravel the mystery surrounding these haunting events, the search efforts, and the unsettling disappearance of the woman. Could there be more to this story than meets the eye? Tune in to hear this baffling case.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to mysteries of mimosas my name is Max Sterling and I am here with my lovely
(00:15):
wife and your co-host Aria.
Hi everyone.
Hey Aria welcome back and thank you for tuning in to another episode.
Before we dive in I'd really appreciate it if you could leave us a comment, hit that
like button and subscribe to our show.
And don't forget to follow us on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram for exclusive content
(00:35):
at mysteries and mimosas podcast.
Today's episode is from 1982 and as always we like to kick things off with a short trivia
section from the year of the crime.
This is our way to bring you back in time by asking each other trivia questions and
to get everyone thinking about where they were and maybe even what they were doing that
(00:56):
year.
So I hope you were alive then.
What do you think you were doing in 1982 Max?
In 1982 let's see what month is this from?
December.
I'm from December okay so in 82 I had just turned three years old.
I was probably man you know I was very advanced for my age.
(01:20):
I probably just recently flexed out my first rat tail.
I was probably hitting the gym pretty hard is what I would think and really just studying.
That's probably what I was doing.
I was probably studying.
Probably knowing you.
Yeah I know exactly where I was in 1982 in December getting ready for Santa Claus.
(01:44):
Yes now that's accurate.
Yeah after I was done studying and flexing out my rat tail.
Sure well actually the two statements from that that are probably true are the Santa
statement and the rat tail statement.
Oh yeah no I'm gonna bring it back I've been growing it can you see it?
Can you tell?
You can't?
Not yet.
It's been a couple days.
(02:05):
It's gonna make a return like the mullet.
It's like the mullet of 2026 that's probably how long it'll take for me to braid it.
Wow.
Yeah.
You get your haircut once a week so I can't really imagine that you're gonna do this.
Yeah that is true.
That's a good point.
I don't like it being long at all.
(02:25):
Alright let's get this trivia started.
Each week I'm in the hot seat until I can get a hundred percent at which point we'll
switch and each week Aria gives me the impossible trivia questions.
The most impossible trivia questions she could find in fact and I think it's to save herself
from constant embarrassment when I send the easy fifth grade trivia questions her way
(02:45):
when she's in the hot seat.
Okay sure.
Yeah that happens.
My questions are so easy.
My trivia questions they're so easy I mean anybody could do it.
Yours you're like I don't even know where you come from.
I've never even fact checked you.
(03:06):
I should start fact checking your trivia questions because they're pretty difficult.
Anyway I'm ready whenever you're ready.
You ready?
I'm ready.
Alright.
In the 1982 trivia what movie directed by Steven Spielberg premiered in 1982 and featured
a friendly alien?
Oh that's easy.
(03:28):
That's the kind of trivia question I give you ET.
Okay what does it stand for?
Extraterrestrial.
Good job.
Alright that's the whole movie title.
That's my two for two no.
Two no for the trivia questions.
Yeah the first one was what was the movie?
The second one was what does it stand for?
ET extraterrestrial 2 and 0.
(03:48):
Let's go to the number three.
Okay that was one question because the movie is actually called ET the extraterrestrial.
Okay.
Okay.
Which popular sitcom featuring a bar in Boston debuted in 1982?
Cheers.
Yes.
We say it at the end of every episode.
Yeah that's why I thought that one was good.
Two for two now.
(04:09):
Which biosynthetic product used for managing diabetes became commercially available in
1982?
Is it insulin?
It is insulin.
Dang.
I hope there's people tuning in for the first time on this episode to hear you say that
my questions are so impossibly hard.
Like they're not.
(04:30):
They're not.
These are easy questions.
Yeah they are pretty easy.
But again I'm a child of the 80s so maybe they're hard for some.
I don't know.
This is right up my alley.
All right last question.
Which children's toy brand introduced cars with real rubber tires in 1982?
(04:51):
Like the like the manufacturer name or the toy name?
The toy brand.
Like the brand of toy.
Like the Hot Wheels.
Yep that's it.
Yeah.
Hot Wheels.
That's what I was gonna say Hot Wheels.
You did say it.
Oh yeah I did say that.
I was actually asking like are we talking about Hot Wheels or are we talking about Mattel?
(05:12):
You know there's a difference.
But I'm gonna go with Hot Wheels.
Is it Hot Wheels?
Yeah it was Hot Wheels.
Did I just get a hundred percent?
You did.
You're off the hot seat.
That means you're in the hot seat.
Did you do that on purpose because you got sick of asking questions?
It could be I got sick of looking up trivia.
Yeah well I'm gonna say that I just rocked it.
You did.
I'll give you credit.
You did.
(05:32):
Okay well moving on to the mimosa recipe.
Thank you for that very difficult trivia segment.
This one you gotta give it a try guys.
This one is so good.
I just came up with it on my own.
All it is is of course your favorite bubbly champagne or sparkling wine.
Whichever you prefer.
(05:53):
And then your mixer is actually going to be pink Whitney vodka and a splash of cranberry.
So good.
And dangerous.
I'm just gonna throw that out there.
It's a little bit dangerous but so good.
Yeah you can only have one of those.
Aria had like three of them this last weekend.
I'm just kidding.
She had one and she's like yeah that's done for me.
(06:14):
She said I'm done son.
I actually said yeah I did.
Yeah it's growing on you.
Growing on you like a rat tail.
Okay all right let's get into this week's episode.
I'm ready.
This is a really sad case.
Yeah I'm uh hold on.
You didn't even ask me how ready I was.
Oh how ready are you?
I'm as ready as Aria standing in a food truck customer line.
(06:40):
Yes.
Yeah that's accurate.
That's how ready I am.
That's an accurate statement.
I love food.
All right.
Have you seen real quick have you seen that video before we get started when the guy is
driving down the street and he revs his motor and the boyfriend's walking with a girlfriend
and he says hey buddy if you're trying to impress my girlfriend you better have a taco
(07:02):
truck.
Oh yeah yeah.
That's true.
That's true.
100 percent.
I am not denying it.
I like food.
All right I'm ready now.
Sorry.
Sorry for the distraction everybody.
No worries.
All right let's get into this episode.
All right let's get into this episode.
Okay don't do that.
All right I'm not going to do that.
All right.
But I'm ready.
In the early hours of December 3rd 1982 witnesses reported seeing a woman in a blue plaid shirt
(07:26):
and blue jeans carrying a toddler along highway 63 in Jackson County Mississippi.
Later the same woman described as being in distress was seen walking along Interstate
10.
Huh I wonder what that means in a state of distress.
I don't know they just said she was in an obvious state of distress.
Yeah that could mean a lot of different things.
(07:49):
Despite offers of help from those who stopped she refused any assistance.
One witness who was monitoring CB radio traffic between midnight and 3 a.m. on December 3rd
heard several truckers discussing the woman and toddler walking along the interstate.
Notably highway 63 intersects with Interstate 10 near the Mississippi Alabama border.
(08:11):
Okay.
So you know we can be pretty certain obviously this is the same woman that was seen walking
along highway 63 and then Interstate 10 because they are they intersect right there.
They're real close together.
Yeah okay so we have multiple witnesses who see this woman who appears to be in distress
and we have one witness who hears truckers talking about this woman on a CB radio.
(08:32):
Correct.
Okay I'm tracking.
So two days later on December 5th 1982 at around 7 a.m. a truck driver reported seeing
a woman in a blue shirt and blue jeans floating face down in the Pascagoula River.
So I've also seen it referred to as the Escatapa River but when I looked at the map it looked
(08:54):
like the Pascagoula River was the only one that passed under a bridge in that area of
Interstate 10 but I have in doing my research I did see both names for the river.
So yeah I was it's one in the same or what?
Yeah I looked at the map on this when you told me about this case and the only river
that actually goes under the highway is the Pascagoula River.
(09:16):
There is an Escatapa River right down there so they can I mean it's a lot of marshland.
But if you look at the map this place is just covered in water it looks like some kind of
bayou swampy area so I don't want to get lost in the details let's just hear what happened.
Yeah a Jackson County Sheriff's Deputy responded immediately but couldn't find the woman.
(09:38):
During the search the deputy discovered a toddler in the weeds along the riverbank.
The child was found face up and partially submerged and was wearing a pink and white
checkered dress and a diaper.
Wow so none of the witnesses or truck drivers that were passing by ever saw her with a toddler
they just saw the woman right?
Right so based on where the toddler was you wouldn't have been able to see her from the
(10:03):
road she was kind of up in the weeds along like oh sure and according to witnesses and
in the law enforcement that was there the trucker would not have been able to see that
toddler from the roadway.
Wow man that's crazy that they found the toddler but not the woman.
Yeah yeah because it from what I read the deputy responded right away so it was it seemed
(10:28):
I don't I mean I don't know what right away is I don't know how much time.
Well I mean an immediate response could be like a 30 hour arrival time or 30 minute arrival
time right?
Yeah it could be depending on where it was.
Better not be a 30 hour.
Yeah hopefully it's not 30 hours.
Yeah it could be a 30 minute could be an hour arrival time who knows you know where they
were at but either way that's pretty strange that they would find the daughter and not
(10:53):
her.
Yeah so despite extensive searches using helicopters boats and divers the woman's body was never
recovered it was believed she might have been swept away by the tides or became entangled
on the riverbed.
Interestingly though while searching the riverbed investigators found the skeletonized remains
of an unidentified African-American male who had been shot and submerged for about six
(11:17):
months.
What?
Yeah.
Hold on so unrelated?
So investigators later determined that this case was unrelated to the woman and the toddler.
Okay.
Just completely separate.
Man that's crazy though right?
Yeah so they're they okay so this is this is bizarre so they see the woman in distress
carrying a toddler the next report is they see you know somebody matching the same description
(11:41):
as this woman floating down the river they respond they find the toddler woman's nowhere
to be found but they're searching and they just find some random dead body.
Yes yeah on the river bottom.
In 2022 using genetic genealogy investigators identified that man as Gary Simpson after
tracking down one of his biological siblings.
(12:03):
Gary's case remains unsolved to this day so maybe another case we might look at.
Oh yeah no we should totally mystery Monday that one.
Yeah for sure.
Yeah.
All right so getting back to toddler.
The toddler given the names baby Jane and Delta Dawn due to her discovery near a delta
in the river was determined through an autopsy to have been smothered before drowning in
(12:26):
the river.
Man those medical examiners are so good.
Yeah.
To be able to determine that I mean I'm sure that I'm sure it's not that big of a deal
for them you know they're probably looking for things in the lungs or whatever in the
mouth.
They found the river water in her lungs that's why they determined that.
Yeah yeah so alive drowned.
Yeah yeah and that's terrible.
(12:48):
Yeah they think she was smothered and then thrown into the river probably whoever did
that may have thought she was dead but she wasn't and she actually ended up drowning.
She was estimated to be between one and two years old well nourished and had 12 teeth.
She was two feet six inches tall and weighed about 25 pounds.
(13:09):
So with no known family baby Jane was laid to rest at Jackson County Memorial Park.
Sheriff's deputy Virgil Moore and his wife Mary Ann Moore raised funds for a proper
burial.
Baby Jane's funeral was attended by about 200 community members with local police serving
as the pallbearers.
Her grave was inscribed with the words baby Jane known only to God.
(13:33):
Wow that's crazy.
That's really sad.
So the community came together and they're pallbearers for this unidentified baby.
They did yeah.
In 2009 baby Jane's body was exhumed for DNA extraction.
The DNA was entered into the National Missing and Unidentified Person System or NAMUS and
the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
(13:56):
On December 4th of 2020 Jackson County Sheriff Mike Ezell announced that baby Jane had been
identified as 18 month old Alicia Ann Heinrich and the woman seen with her was Gwendolyn
Mae Clemens Heinrich.
The 2009 DNA sample was analyzed by Othram, a Houston based lab specializing in genetic
(14:17):
genealogy.
Investigators used this information to locate Alicia and Gwendolyn's family in Missouri
who were the ones that confirmed their identities.
Interesting so I wonder just a side note here.
I wonder if the family ever since the body's already exhumed if they ever took that baby
back to give their proper burial at home.
(14:38):
I didn't see anything about that.
I would think that.
I really hope so.
Yeah but I didn't see anything in my research about that.
Gwendolyn's family reported last seeing her and Alicia at a Thanksgiving gathering on
November 24th of 1982.
So remember they were seen walking along that interstate on December 3rd.
(14:58):
So just not too long after a week or so after that.
Gwendolyn who was recently divorced had planned to move to Florida with a new unnamed boyfriend
to start a new life.
However they never arrived in Florida and the boyfriend ended up returning to Missouri
alone.
(15:18):
And he never made any police reports.
Yeah no.
I don't know if her family ever reported her missing either from what I'm reading.
It says that Gwendolyn's family assumes they were just living somewhere in Florida.
Wow.
So I don't even know.
They've never named the boyfriend, never released any of that information.
No idea what he had said to everyone.
(15:40):
All of a sudden I'm leaving on this road trip to go start a new life in Florida.
And within a week or so I return back to Missouri by myself.
That seems very suspicious obviously.
Yeah it's suspicious.
But in defense of the family I can understand.
I think that probably we all have a relative that we lose contact with.
(16:03):
They go do their own thing and you know that they're around but you just don't contact
them.
There's no Facebook or Instagram or internet in 1982 to keep track.
And if you don't have that family member you might be that family member where no one really
wants to talk to you.
I could be that person.
Maybe it's me.
It might be.
I don't know.
(16:24):
Yeah so it's weird anyway.
He comes back.
They're not with him.
Though Gwendolyn remains missing, the boyfriend who is now deceased was named a suspect in
Alicia's death and Gwendolyn's disappearance.
Yeah but nobody saw anybody else other than Alicia.
I know.
And Gwendolyn.
(16:44):
Yeah so I'm thinking about this.
And just kind of my theories are.
So yeah nobody reported seeing anyone else.
There were several reports of seeing her carrying, seeing Gwendolyn carrying Alicia but nobody
else was around.
They never mentioned that there was a car nearby.
Nothing.
(17:05):
Just that they were walking.
And so I mean what happened?
Did Gwendolyn and the boyfriend get in some kind of an argument or an altercation so she
gets out of the car and starts walking?
And maybe is in distress.
Because I think the initial theory behind this before the identification came out and
(17:27):
it was found out that she was actually there with a boyfriend and the boyfriend returned
without her.
Before all of that information was known I think there was an assumption that Gwendolyn
had done like a murder suicide.
Had suffocated.
Thrown her baby or something and then jumped over.
For sure.
And they never found her body so they can't determine the cause of death for her.
(17:48):
Was she hit with something?
Was it blunt force trauma?
Did she drown?
Like we don't know because Gwendolyn's body's never been found.
There are obviously other things that could have happened right?
Maybe she was picked up by someone and they're the ones who killed Alicia and threw Gwendolyn
off the bridge.
(18:09):
I mean we can assume maybe that she's been killed as well but we don't know because they've
never been able to find her body.
So there are a lot of things that are possible.
But I think when you look at the big picture of the boyfriend returning to Missouri without
ever reporting her missing or saying anything.
(18:31):
I mean that's what's suspicious to me.
Like if they got into some kind of argument or altercation and she says look I'm done.
I mean I wish I had more information right?
I mean were they in his car?
Were they in her car?
Like we don't have all of that information.
But for whatever reason she gets out of the car and starts walking.
I mean does he follow her?
I don't know.
(18:52):
That's just suspicious to me though is that he goes back to Missouri and just like forgets
about them and never, you know what I mean?
Because if something else had happened to them wouldn't he be like okay yeah we got
into this argument and she got out and started walking but you know I went to look for her
(19:13):
and never could find her.
This isn't like her.
Yes we've had arguments before but she wouldn't just leave and you know he never reports that
either to her family or the police.
I just think that's really weird.
Yeah to me it's very reminiscent of the Shannon Collins case.
If you haven't heard that one we did that one several weeks back.
Shannon Collins was missing, is missing, recently missing and during all this time.
(19:39):
I don't think it was recent that he's missing.
Well I mean it's more recent than 1982.
But he's recently missing and his wife and his kids, step kid, they don't ever report
him missing and he just goes on in his distant family or his you know brother, sisters, mom,
(20:00):
dad.
They never have any contact with Shannon.
It's just like he fell off the face of the earth.
Meanwhile wife and kids are just leading this life like as if nothing happened and they
went to further, you know greater lengths to find, to you know to purchase a cell phone
to make it seem like he was still in communication with them when they know all along he's not
coming home, he's never coming home.
(20:22):
The family knows that but maybe that would have been a similar case if we had cell phone
technology in 1982.
Who knows what the boyfriend said when he got back home.
Yeah that's the thing and now he's deceased too so we may, you know we'll probably never
know.
Right yeah and I'm guessing he you know if he had anything to do with this he never confided
(20:45):
into anybody.
Yeah.
So yeah we'll never know until maybe her body gets discovered.
Probably not.
I mean if she was over face down in the water I don't know too much about this area but
I know there's alligators in the south and for that reason I don't get in the water when
we go to the south.
Not very often.
I do have like some squirrel moments like one time I saw that turtle shell down in Florida
(21:09):
and I got off the jet ski and waded through the water and crocodile infested waters.
Definitely alligators for sure.
Well whatever same thing.
Alligator crocodile they all have a bunch of teeth they're very mean you don't want
to get dragged down by one of them things.
That's true so yeah that's always a possibility too right that the tides carried her away
(21:29):
and you know that river goes out into the ocean too so it's possible and it was right
down on the coast so I don't think it's like a great distance for her to have had to travel
to get there so it's very possible that her body might never be found.
Yeah probably I mean it's 1982 by now I don't think she'll ever be found I would say you
(21:54):
know all signs indicate that she's not going to be found and that she is deceased.
I'm just really happy that you know they were able to identify Alisha and give her back
over to her family you know or at least give them I don't know a little bit of answers.
I mean that's that's the only silver lining that I could see here.
(22:15):
Yeah after all these years at least they have partial answers I guess.
For sure.
Yeah I don't you know it's it's really hard to say what happened right the whole thing
is weird mostly because these truck drivers are having this conversation between midnight
and 3 a.m. and nobody ever mentions seeing somebody else just her and the toddler.
(22:39):
Yeah.
But the only weird thing about that whole thing is you know sometimes people they do
get into distress and things happen and you know we I'm not saying that's what happened
in this case but there are murder suicides with moms and children.
Yeah I mean postpartum depression is a big leading cause for the murder suicides or the
(23:01):
murders.
Yeah she could have been in a state of distress because of something that was going on with
boyfriend.
I just think that it's weird that if that is the case why boyfriend wouldn't have gone
and said hey I've you know we had this altercation and now I've never seen her again.
Maybe he was worried maybe he was worried that he would get in trouble.
(23:23):
I have no idea.
It's just a really sad case and I worry that that family is never going to get those answers
because now boyfriend's deceased.
Yeah but again we don't know that the boyfriend is guilty.
There could be somebody out there that knows something still.
Yeah.
(23:44):
You know there could be somebody else that's responsible for it.
That's absolutely true.
It's totally possible that they had an altercation like you said and he and just split ways and
he said all right well deuces I'm out.
Right yeah because I don't know either because she had just recently divorced so I don't
even know how long she had been dating this new boyfriend or what that relationship was
like.
And that's why it's a mystery.
(24:06):
Exactly.
For nearly 40 years theories about baby James identity and the events of December 1982 abounded.
The new information like I said before about Gwendolyn's boyfriend just added complexity
to the case.
The Jackson County Sheriff's Office requests anyone with information about this case or
Gwendolyn's whereabouts to contact them at 228-769-3036 or Mississippi Coast Crime Stoppers
(24:36):
at 877-787-5898.
All right I'm just curious.
Maybe you know the answer to this.
This is not a trivia question.
It will not be on next week's episode and I don't want to sound too dumb by saying this
but if this river is a freshwater river correct?
(24:56):
Yeah.
Runs into the ocean how far can a shark swim up into the river?
No I've actually seen videos on social media where they're like oh sharks have been found
all the way up and I don't know like way up like in the middle of the United States you
know based off of coming off these the river these rivers that converge at the ocean.
(25:20):
Okay so then who do you think would win in a fight between a shark and an alligator?
Probably a shark I think.
You think so?
I think so if it's big enough.
I guess it depends on the size.
If you were in the water wading in the water doesn't matter if it's saltwater or freshwater
and you had to fight one or the other.
(25:41):
Are you choosing your opponent to be an alligator or a shark?
That's really hard so you know alligators like take you down and like trap you and drown
you and like the death roll and like then you drown for sure.
I think sharks just like bite you so I don't really know which is worse.
I don't know.
I think they can I mean depending on the size of the shark they could bite you in half so
(26:03):
probably a quicker death.
That's what I'm saying.
With a shark.
That's what I would prefer if I had to fight one.
I mean if I had to fight any mammal in the water it would be a dolphin.
Well I know that alligators aren't mammals but if I had to fight any fish in the ocean
it would be a dolphin.
Yeah because they'll never fight you they're so nice.
(26:25):
I would kill that dolphin with all my kisses and all my hugs.
Okay.
Yeah that's what would happen anyway.
Not to get sidetracked completely off topic but I don't think you would survive a shark
attack and I just want everybody to know I was left for dead in the water of the Keys.
(26:48):
Okay that was.
No I was left for dead.
Okay here's what happened.
We went on a safari in the water.
It's not a safari in the water.
It's not?
No it was a boat ride.
An excursion.
Okay an excursion.
We were in the water snorkeling in the Keys and the boat operator captain I think he's
(27:12):
called the captain.
The boat operator captain he says hey everybody be careful when you're coming back into the
boat there's a big giant barracuda.
This thing had to be I don't know man he looked like 20 feet long when I was staring at him
face to face but he says be careful there's a barracuda in the water don't look at him
(27:32):
don't tease him don't try to tickle him just get on the boat right and so we're going on
the boat and there's a little ramp that you had to go in the middle of the boat.
Yeah it was a catamaran.
That's my story.
Well I'm just trying to explain the kind of boat that it was.
It wasn't like a regular boat where you're climbing up a ladder like the center of the
boat dropped like a ramp down so that's how you got in and out of the water.
(27:54):
So this catamaran.
No it doesn't have a D on the end.
I know.
So this catamaran drops down a ramp and the barracuda is right there and they said hey
you know they're more afraid of you than you are afraid of them so just ignore him and
get on the boat.
Well being the gentleman I am I said hey Arya why don't you go first probably because I
(28:18):
was scared.
Yeah.
And you're like okay and so you go first and you get past the barracuda no problem and
he's looking I mean this thing has some massive teeth.
Yeah they're really scary looking.
I mean he had an under bite.
I mean let me just say this this barracuda had a face only a mother could love.
It was ugly.
(28:38):
It was staring at me.
I think it was drooling in the salt water and Arya just glides right past it no big
deal and then panics at the last minute and her little snorkel fins start going crazy
in the water.
Bubbles are everywhere.
He freaks out.
I freak out.
And now I'm just face to face with this big giant nasty ass barracuda and then we just
(29:03):
kind of like looked at each other.
He tipped his hat to me and said good day sir and I said good day to you sir.
I got on the boat and that was the last time I saw it until a little bit later I threw
a sandwich over and he jumped out of the water and he ate it so I know he was capable of
death.
But for some reason the good lord was looking over little baby Max that day and spared me
(29:25):
from the instant barracuda grip.
That's what happened.
Left 4 Dead.
This could have been a show with I don't know it could be Miguel and Arya's fascinating
podcast show or something instead of mysteries and mimosas.
I don't know.
Yeah okay some of that story is true.
(29:47):
I think there was a lot of detail added for dramatic effect.
Like what?
Um a lot.
But okay.
No no that's how it happened.
That's how I remember it.
I have nightmares to this day about that barracuda.
Okay well when we all think back he literally made me go first so you could have gone first.
(30:08):
You I was not about to leave you for dead like you left me for dead.
So you know what now that I know that I think about it when I got onto the boat I saw you
turn around and you rolled your eyes like man like he made it.
Dang it.
Yeah.
Like I set that whole thing up like I'm like hey barracuda meet me at this catamaran.
(30:29):
Right.
That's what it felt like.
Okay.
Yeah it felt like a setup.
Wow.
Anyway.
Okay one one day not today.
Today is not that day.
One day I will tell the jet ski story on that same excursion.
For listeners I'd love to hear that.
Yeah that was a fun that was a fun time.
If you haven't been to the Keys go to the Keys swim with the barracudas ride the jet
(30:52):
skis and in the meantime I want to wrap this one up so thank you for presenting this mystery.
Such a strange mystery by the way but thank you for presenting this and as we close this
one out let's just raise our glasses to the life of Alicia and Gwendolyn.
Cheers.
Cheers.
(31:12):
Cheers.
Welcome to mysteries of mimosas my name is Max Sterling and I am here with my lovely
(00:15):
wife and your co-host Aria.
Hi everyone.
Hey Aria welcome back and thank you for tuning in to another episode.
Before we dive in I'd really appreciate it if you could leave us a comment, hit that
like button and subscribe to our show.
And don't forget to follow us on Facebook, TikTok, and Instagram for exclusive content
(00:35):
at mysteries and mimosas podcast.
Today's episode is from 1982 and as always we like to kick things off with a short trivia
section from the year of the crime.
This is our way to bring you back in time by asking each other trivia questions and
to get everyone thinking about where they were and maybe even what they were doing that
(00:56):
year.
So I hope you were alive then.
What do you think you were doing in 1982 Max?
In 1982 let's see what month is this from?
December.
I'm from December okay so in 82 I had just turned three years old.
I was probably man you know I was very advanced for my age.
(01:20):
I probably just recently flexed out my first rat tail.
I was probably hitting the gym pretty hard is what I would think and really just studying.
That's probably what I was doing.
I was probably studying.
Probably knowing you.
Yeah I know exactly where I was in 1982 in December getting ready for Santa Claus.
(01:44):
Yes now that's accurate.
Yeah after I was done studying and flexing out my rat tail.
Sure well actually the two statements from that that are probably true are the Santa
statement and the rat tail statement.
Oh yeah no I'm gonna bring it back I've been growing it can you see it?
Can you tell?
You can't?
Not yet.
It's been a couple days.
(02:05):
It's gonna make a return like the mullet.
It's like the mullet of 2026 that's probably how long it'll take for me to braid it.
Wow.
Yeah.
You get your haircut once a week so I can't really imagine that you're gonna do this.
Yeah that is true.
That's a good point.
I don't like it being long at all.
(02:25):
Alright let's get this trivia started.
Each week I'm in the hot seat until I can get a hundred percent at which point we'll
switch and each week Aria gives me the impossible trivia questions.
The most impossible trivia questions she could find in fact and I think it's to save herself
from constant embarrassment when I send the easy fifth grade trivia questions her way
(02:45):
when she's in the hot seat.
Okay sure.
Yeah that happens.
My questions are so easy.
My trivia questions they're so easy I mean anybody could do it.
Yours you're like I don't even know where you come from.
I've never even fact checked you.
(03:06):
I should start fact checking your trivia questions because they're pretty difficult.
Anyway I'm ready whenever you're ready.
You ready?
I'm ready.
Alright.
In the 1982 trivia what movie directed by Steven Spielberg premiered in 1982 and featured
a friendly alien?
Oh that's easy.
(03:28):
That's the kind of trivia question I give you ET.
Okay what does it stand for?
Extraterrestrial.
Good job.
Alright that's the whole movie title.
That's my two for two no.
Two no for the trivia questions.
Yeah the first one was what was the movie?
The second one was what does it stand for?
ET extraterrestrial 2 and 0.
(03:48):
Let's go to the number three.
Okay that was one question because the movie is actually called ET the extraterrestrial.
Okay.
Okay.
Which popular sitcom featuring a bar in Boston debuted in 1982?
Cheers.
Yes.
We say it at the end of every episode.
Yeah that's why I thought that one was good.
Two for two now.
(04:09):
Which biosynthetic product used for managing diabetes became commercially available in
1982?
Is it insulin?
It is insulin.
Dang.
I hope there's people tuning in for the first time on this episode to hear you say that
my questions are so impossibly hard.
Like they're not.
(04:30):
They're not.
These are easy questions.
Yeah they are pretty easy.
But again I'm a child of the 80s so maybe they're hard for some.
I don't know.
This is right up my alley.
All right last question.
Which children's toy brand introduced cars with real rubber tires in 1982?
(04:51):
Like the like the manufacturer name or the toy name?
The toy brand.
Like the brand of toy.
Like the Hot Wheels.
Yep that's it.
Yeah.
Hot Wheels.
That's what I was gonna say Hot Wheels.
You did say it.
Oh yeah I did say that.
I was actually asking like are we talking about Hot Wheels or are we talking about Mattel?
(05:12):
You know there's a difference.
But I'm gonna go with Hot Wheels.
Is it Hot Wheels?
Yeah it was Hot Wheels.
Did I just get a hundred percent?
You did.
You're off the hot seat.
That means you're in the hot seat.
Did you do that on purpose because you got sick of asking questions?
It could be I got sick of looking up trivia.
Yeah well I'm gonna say that I just rocked it.
You did.
I'll give you credit.
You did.
(05:32):
Okay well moving on to the mimosa recipe.
Thank you for that very difficult trivia segment.
This one you gotta give it a try guys.
This one is so good.
I just came up with it on my own.
All it is is of course your favorite bubbly champagne or sparkling wine.
Whichever you prefer.
(05:53):
And then your mixer is actually going to be pink Whitney vodka and a splash of cranberry.
So good.
And dangerous.
I'm just gonna throw that out there.
It's a little bit dangerous but so good.
Yeah you can only have one of those.
Aria had like three of them this last weekend.
I'm just kidding.
She had one and she's like yeah that's done for me.
(06:14):
She said I'm done son.
I actually said yeah I did.
Yeah it's growing on you.
Growing on you like a rat tail.
Okay all right let's get into this week's episode.
I'm ready.
This is a really sad case.
Yeah I'm uh hold on.
You didn't even ask me how ready I was.
Oh how ready are you?
I'm as ready as Aria standing in a food truck customer line.
(06:40):
Yes.
Yeah that's accurate.
That's how ready I am.
That's an accurate statement.
I love food.
All right.
Have you seen real quick have you seen that video before we get started when the guy is
driving down the street and he revs his motor and the boyfriend's walking with a girlfriend
and he says hey buddy if you're trying to impress my girlfriend you better have a taco
(07:02):
truck.
Oh yeah yeah.
That's true.
That's true.
100 percent.
I am not denying it.
I like food.
All right I'm ready now.
Sorry.
Sorry for the distraction everybody.
No worries.
All right let's get into this episode.
All right let's get into this episode.
Okay don't do that.
All right I'm not going to do that.
All right.
But I'm ready.
In the early hours of December 3rd 1982 witnesses reported seeing a woman in a blue plaid shirt
(07:26):
and blue jeans carrying a toddler along highway 63 in Jackson County Mississippi.
Later the same woman described as being in distress was seen walking along Interstate
10.
Huh I wonder what that means in a state of distress.
I don't know they just said she was in an obvious state of distress.
Yeah that could mean a lot of different things.
(07:49):
Despite offers of help from those who stopped she refused any assistance.
One witness who was monitoring CB radio traffic between midnight and 3 a.m. on December 3rd
heard several truckers discussing the woman and toddler walking along the interstate.
Notably highway 63 intersects with Interstate 10 near the Mississippi Alabama border.
(08:11):
Okay.
So you know we can be pretty certain obviously this is the same woman that was seen walking
along highway 63 and then Interstate 10 because they are they intersect right there.
They're real close together.
Yeah okay so we have multiple witnesses who see this woman who appears to be in distress
and we have one witness who hears truckers talking about this woman on a CB radio.
(08:32):
Correct.
Okay I'm tracking.
So two days later on December 5th 1982 at around 7 a.m. a truck driver reported seeing
a woman in a blue shirt and blue jeans floating face down in the Pascagoula River.
So I've also seen it referred to as the Escatapa River but when I looked at the map it looked
(08:54):
like the Pascagoula River was the only one that passed under a bridge in that area of
Interstate 10 but I have in doing my research I did see both names for the river.
So yeah I was it's one in the same or what?
Yeah I looked at the map on this when you told me about this case and the only river
that actually goes under the highway is the Pascagoula River.
(09:16):
There is an Escatapa River right down there so they can I mean it's a lot of marshland.
But if you look at the map this place is just covered in water it looks like some kind of
bayou swampy area so I don't want to get lost in the details let's just hear what happened.
Yeah a Jackson County Sheriff's Deputy responded immediately but couldn't find the woman.
(09:38):
During the search the deputy discovered a toddler in the weeds along the riverbank.
The child was found face up and partially submerged and was wearing a pink and white
checkered dress and a diaper.
Wow so none of the witnesses or truck drivers that were passing by ever saw her with a toddler
they just saw the woman right?
Right so based on where the toddler was you wouldn't have been able to see her from the
(10:03):
road she was kind of up in the weeds along like oh sure and according to witnesses and
in the law enforcement that was there the trucker would not have been able to see that
toddler from the roadway.
Wow man that's crazy that they found the toddler but not the woman.
Yeah yeah because it from what I read the deputy responded right away so it was it seemed
(10:28):
I don't I mean I don't know what right away is I don't know how much time.
Well I mean an immediate response could be like a 30 hour arrival time or 30 minute arrival
time right?
Yeah it could be depending on where it was.
Better not be a 30 hour.
Yeah hopefully it's not 30 hours.
Yeah it could be a 30 minute could be an hour arrival time who knows you know where they
were at but either way that's pretty strange that they would find the daughter and not
(10:53):
her.
Yeah so despite extensive searches using helicopters boats and divers the woman's body was never
recovered it was believed she might have been swept away by the tides or became entangled
on the riverbed.
Interestingly though while searching the riverbed investigators found the skeletonized remains
of an unidentified African-American male who had been shot and submerged for about six
(11:17):
months.
What?
Yeah.
Hold on so unrelated?
So investigators later determined that this case was unrelated to the woman and the toddler.
Okay.
Just completely separate.
Man that's crazy though right?
Yeah so they're they okay so this is this is bizarre so they see the woman in distress
carrying a toddler the next report is they see you know somebody matching the same description
(11:41):
as this woman floating down the river they respond they find the toddler woman's nowhere
to be found but they're searching and they just find some random dead body.
Yes yeah on the river bottom.
In 2022 using genetic genealogy investigators identified that man as Gary Simpson after
tracking down one of his biological siblings.
(12:03):
Gary's case remains unsolved to this day so maybe another case we might look at.
Oh yeah no we should totally mystery Monday that one.
Yeah for sure.
Yeah.
All right so getting back to toddler.
The toddler given the names baby Jane and Delta Dawn due to her discovery near a delta
in the river was determined through an autopsy to have been smothered before drowning in
(12:26):
the river.
Man those medical examiners are so good.
Yeah.
To be able to determine that I mean I'm sure that I'm sure it's not that big of a deal
for them you know they're probably looking for things in the lungs or whatever in the
mouth.
They found the river water in her lungs that's why they determined that.
Yeah yeah so alive drowned.
Yeah yeah and that's terrible.
(12:48):
Yeah they think she was smothered and then thrown into the river probably whoever did
that may have thought she was dead but she wasn't and she actually ended up drowning.
She was estimated to be between one and two years old well nourished and had 12 teeth.
She was two feet six inches tall and weighed about 25 pounds.
(13:09):
So with no known family baby Jane was laid to rest at Jackson County Memorial Park.
Sheriff's deputy Virgil Moore and his wife Mary Ann Moore raised funds for a proper
burial.
Baby Jane's funeral was attended by about 200 community members with local police serving
as the pallbearers.
Her grave was inscribed with the words baby Jane known only to God.
(13:33):
Wow that's crazy.
That's really sad.
So the community came together and they're pallbearers for this unidentified baby.
They did yeah.
In 2009 baby Jane's body was exhumed for DNA extraction.
The DNA was entered into the National Missing and Unidentified Person System or NAMUS and
the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
(13:56):
On December 4th of 2020 Jackson County Sheriff Mike Ezell announced that baby Jane had been
identified as 18 month old Alicia Ann Heinrich and the woman seen with her was Gwendolyn
Mae Clemens Heinrich.
The 2009 DNA sample was analyzed by Othram, a Houston based lab specializing in genetic
(14:17):
genealogy.
Investigators used this information to locate Alicia and Gwendolyn's family in Missouri
who were the ones that confirmed their identities.
Interesting so I wonder just a side note here.
I wonder if the family ever since the body's already exhumed if they ever took that baby
back to give their proper burial at home.
(14:38):
I didn't see anything about that.
I would think that.
I really hope so.
Yeah but I didn't see anything in my research about that.
Gwendolyn's family reported last seeing her and Alicia at a Thanksgiving gathering on
November 24th of 1982.
So remember they were seen walking along that interstate on December 3rd.
(14:58):
So just not too long after a week or so after that.
Gwendolyn who was recently divorced had planned to move to Florida with a new unnamed boyfriend
to start a new life.
However they never arrived in Florida and the boyfriend ended up returning to Missouri
alone.
(15:18):
And he never made any police reports.
Yeah no.
I don't know if her family ever reported her missing either from what I'm reading.
It says that Gwendolyn's family assumes they were just living somewhere in Florida.
Wow.
So I don't even know.
They've never named the boyfriend, never released any of that information.
No idea what he had said to everyone.
(15:40):
All of a sudden I'm leaving on this road trip to go start a new life in Florida.
And within a week or so I return back to Missouri by myself.
That seems very suspicious obviously.
Yeah it's suspicious.
But in defense of the family I can understand.
I think that probably we all have a relative that we lose contact with.
(16:03):
They go do their own thing and you know that they're around but you just don't contact
them.
There's no Facebook or Instagram or internet in 1982 to keep track.
And if you don't have that family member you might be that family member where no one really
wants to talk to you.
I could be that person.
Maybe it's me.
It might be.
I don't know.
(16:24):
Yeah so it's weird anyway.
He comes back.
They're not with him.
Though Gwendolyn remains missing, the boyfriend who is now deceased was named a suspect in
Alicia's death and Gwendolyn's disappearance.
Yeah but nobody saw anybody else other than Alicia.
I know.
And Gwendolyn.
(16:44):
Yeah so I'm thinking about this.
And just kind of my theories are.
So yeah nobody reported seeing anyone else.
There were several reports of seeing her carrying, seeing Gwendolyn carrying Alicia but nobody
else was around.
They never mentioned that there was a car nearby.
Nothing.
(17:05):
Just that they were walking.
And so I mean what happened?
Did Gwendolyn and the boyfriend get in some kind of an argument or an altercation so she
gets out of the car and starts walking?
And maybe is in distress.
Because I think the initial theory behind this before the identification came out and
(17:27):
it was found out that she was actually there with a boyfriend and the boyfriend returned
without her.
Before all of that information was known I think there was an assumption that Gwendolyn
had done like a murder suicide.
Had suffocated.
Thrown her baby or something and then jumped over.
For sure.
And they never found her body so they can't determine the cause of death for her.
(17:48):
Was she hit with something?
Was it blunt force trauma?
Did she drown?
Like we don't know because Gwendolyn's body's never been found.
There are obviously other things that could have happened right?
Maybe she was picked up by someone and they're the ones who killed Alicia and threw Gwendolyn
off the bridge.
(18:09):
I mean we can assume maybe that she's been killed as well but we don't know because they've
never been able to find her body.
So there are a lot of things that are possible.
But I think when you look at the big picture of the boyfriend returning to Missouri without
ever reporting her missing or saying anything.
(18:31):
I mean that's what's suspicious to me.
Like if they got into some kind of argument or altercation and she says look I'm done.
I mean I wish I had more information right?
I mean were they in his car?
Were they in her car?
Like we don't have all of that information.
But for whatever reason she gets out of the car and starts walking.
I mean does he follow her?
I don't know.
(18:52):
That's just suspicious to me though is that he goes back to Missouri and just like forgets
about them and never, you know what I mean?
Because if something else had happened to them wouldn't he be like okay yeah we got
into this argument and she got out and started walking but you know I went to look for her
(19:13):
and never could find her.
This isn't like her.
Yes we've had arguments before but she wouldn't just leave and you know he never reports that
either to her family or the police.
I just think that's really weird.
Yeah to me it's very reminiscent of the Shannon Collins case.
If you haven't heard that one we did that one several weeks back.
Shannon Collins was missing, is missing, recently missing and during all this time.
(19:39):
I don't think it was recent that he's missing.
Well I mean it's more recent than 1982.
But he's recently missing and his wife and his kids, step kid, they don't ever report
him missing and he just goes on in his distant family or his you know brother, sisters, mom,
(20:00):
dad.
They never have any contact with Shannon.
It's just like he fell off the face of the earth.
Meanwhile wife and kids are just leading this life like as if nothing happened and they
went to further, you know greater lengths to find, to you know to purchase a cell phone
to make it seem like he was still in communication with them when they know all along he's not
coming home, he's never coming home.
(20:22):
The family knows that but maybe that would have been a similar case if we had cell phone
technology in 1982.
Who knows what the boyfriend said when he got back home.
Yeah that's the thing and now he's deceased too so we may, you know we'll probably never
know.
Right yeah and I'm guessing he you know if he had anything to do with this he never confided
(20:45):
into anybody.
Yeah.
So yeah we'll never know until maybe her body gets discovered.
Probably not.
I mean if she was over face down in the water I don't know too much about this area but
I know there's alligators in the south and for that reason I don't get in the water when
we go to the south.
Not very often.
I do have like some squirrel moments like one time I saw that turtle shell down in Florida
(21:09):
and I got off the jet ski and waded through the water and crocodile infested waters.
Definitely alligators for sure.
Well whatever same thing.
Alligator crocodile they all have a bunch of teeth they're very mean you don't want
to get dragged down by one of them things.
That's true so yeah that's always a possibility too right that the tides carried her away
(21:29):
and you know that river goes out into the ocean too so it's possible and it was right
down on the coast so I don't think it's like a great distance for her to have had to travel
to get there so it's very possible that her body might never be found.
Yeah probably I mean it's 1982 by now I don't think she'll ever be found I would say you
(21:54):
know all signs indicate that she's not going to be found and that she is deceased.
I'm just really happy that you know they were able to identify Alisha and give her back
over to her family you know or at least give them I don't know a little bit of answers.
I mean that's that's the only silver lining that I could see here.
(22:15):
Yeah after all these years at least they have partial answers I guess.
For sure.
Yeah I don't you know it's it's really hard to say what happened right the whole thing
is weird mostly because these truck drivers are having this conversation between midnight
and 3 a.m. and nobody ever mentions seeing somebody else just her and the toddler.
(22:39):
Yeah.
But the only weird thing about that whole thing is you know sometimes people they do
get into distress and things happen and you know we I'm not saying that's what happened
in this case but there are murder suicides with moms and children.
Yeah I mean postpartum depression is a big leading cause for the murder suicides or the
(23:01):
murders.
Yeah she could have been in a state of distress because of something that was going on with
boyfriend.
I just think that it's weird that if that is the case why boyfriend wouldn't have gone
and said hey I've you know we had this altercation and now I've never seen her again.
Maybe he was worried maybe he was worried that he would get in trouble.
(23:23):
I have no idea.
It's just a really sad case and I worry that that family is never going to get those answers
because now boyfriend's deceased.
Yeah but again we don't know that the boyfriend is guilty.
There could be somebody out there that knows something still.
Yeah.
(23:44):
You know there could be somebody else that's responsible for it.
That's absolutely true.
It's totally possible that they had an altercation like you said and he and just split ways and
he said all right well deuces I'm out.
Right yeah because I don't know either because she had just recently divorced so I don't
even know how long she had been dating this new boyfriend or what that relationship was
like.
And that's why it's a mystery.
(24:06):
Exactly.
For nearly 40 years theories about baby James identity and the events of December 1982 abounded.
The new information like I said before about Gwendolyn's boyfriend just added complexity
to the case.
The Jackson County Sheriff's Office requests anyone with information about this case or
Gwendolyn's whereabouts to contact them at 228-769-3036 or Mississippi Coast Crime Stoppers
(24:36):
at 877-787-5898.
All right I'm just curious.
Maybe you know the answer to this.
This is not a trivia question.
It will not be on next week's episode and I don't want to sound too dumb by saying this
but if this river is a freshwater river correct?
(24:56):
Yeah.
Runs into the ocean how far can a shark swim up into the river?
No I've actually seen videos on social media where they're like oh sharks have been found
all the way up and I don't know like way up like in the middle of the United States you
know based off of coming off these the river these rivers that converge at the ocean.
(25:20):
Okay so then who do you think would win in a fight between a shark and an alligator?
Probably a shark I think.
You think so?
I think so if it's big enough.
I guess it depends on the size.
If you were in the water wading in the water doesn't matter if it's saltwater or freshwater
and you had to fight one or the other.
(25:41):
Are you choosing your opponent to be an alligator or a shark?
That's really hard so you know alligators like take you down and like trap you and drown
you and like the death roll and like then you drown for sure.
I think sharks just like bite you so I don't really know which is worse.
I don't know.
I think they can I mean depending on the size of the shark they could bite you in half so
(26:03):
probably a quicker death.
That's what I'm saying.
With a shark.
That's what I would prefer if I had to fight one.
I mean if I had to fight any mammal in the water it would be a dolphin.
Well I know that alligators aren't mammals but if I had to fight any fish in the ocean
it would be a dolphin.
Yeah because they'll never fight you they're so nice.
(26:25):
I would kill that dolphin with all my kisses and all my hugs.
Okay.
Yeah that's what would happen anyway.
Not to get sidetracked completely off topic but I don't think you would survive a shark
attack and I just want everybody to know I was left for dead in the water of the Keys.
(26:48):
Okay that was.
No I was left for dead.
Okay here's what happened.
We went on a safari in the water.
It's not a safari in the water.
It's not?
No it was a boat ride.
An excursion.
Okay an excursion.
We were in the water snorkeling in the Keys and the boat operator captain I think he's
(27:12):
called the captain.
The boat operator captain he says hey everybody be careful when you're coming back into the
boat there's a big giant barracuda.
This thing had to be I don't know man he looked like 20 feet long when I was staring at him
face to face but he says be careful there's a barracuda in the water don't look at him
(27:32):
don't tease him don't try to tickle him just get on the boat right and so we're going on
the boat and there's a little ramp that you had to go in the middle of the boat.
Yeah it was a catamaran.
That's my story.
Well I'm just trying to explain the kind of boat that it was.
It wasn't like a regular boat where you're climbing up a ladder like the center of the
boat dropped like a ramp down so that's how you got in and out of the water.
(27:54):
So this catamaran.
No it doesn't have a D on the end.
I know.
So this catamaran drops down a ramp and the barracuda is right there and they said hey
you know they're more afraid of you than you are afraid of them so just ignore him and
get on the boat.
Well being the gentleman I am I said hey Arya why don't you go first probably because I
(28:18):
was scared.
Yeah.
And you're like okay and so you go first and you get past the barracuda no problem and
he's looking I mean this thing has some massive teeth.
Yeah they're really scary looking.
I mean he had an under bite.
I mean let me just say this this barracuda had a face only a mother could love.
It was ugly.
(28:38):
It was staring at me.
I think it was drooling in the salt water and Arya just glides right past it no big
deal and then panics at the last minute and her little snorkel fins start going crazy
in the water.
Bubbles are everywhere.
He freaks out.
I freak out.
And now I'm just face to face with this big giant nasty ass barracuda and then we just
(29:03):
kind of like looked at each other.
He tipped his hat to me and said good day sir and I said good day to you sir.
I got on the boat and that was the last time I saw it until a little bit later I threw
a sandwich over and he jumped out of the water and he ate it so I know he was capable of
death.
But for some reason the good lord was looking over little baby Max that day and spared me
(29:25):
from the instant barracuda grip.
That's what happened.
Left 4 Dead.
This could have been a show with I don't know it could be Miguel and Arya's fascinating
podcast show or something instead of mysteries and mimosas.
I don't know.
Yeah okay some of that story is true.
(29:47):
I think there was a lot of detail added for dramatic effect.
Like what?
Um a lot.
But okay.
No no that's how it happened.
That's how I remember it.
I have nightmares to this day about that barracuda.
Okay well when we all think back he literally made me go first so you could have gone first.
(30:08):
You I was not about to leave you for dead like you left me for dead.
So you know what now that I know that I think about it when I got onto the boat I saw you
turn around and you rolled your eyes like man like he made it.
Dang it.
Yeah.
Like I set that whole thing up like I'm like hey barracuda meet me at this catamaran.
(30:29):
Right.
That's what it felt like.
Okay.
Yeah it felt like a setup.
Wow.
Anyway.
Okay one one day not today.
Today is not that day.
One day I will tell the jet ski story on that same excursion.
For listeners I'd love to hear that.
Yeah that was a fun that was a fun time.
If you haven't been to the Keys go to the Keys swim with the barracudas ride the jet
(30:52):
skis and in the meantime I want to wrap this one up so thank you for presenting this mystery.
Such a strange mystery by the way but thank you for presenting this and as we close this
one out let's just raise our glasses to the life of Alicia and Gwendolyn.
Cheers.
Cheers.
(31:12):
Cheers.
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