January 7, 2026 • 17 mins
Alex and Amy are joined by Eyal Darmon of Accenture to talk about our recent joint report. Specifically we are talking about how citizens and CIOs view the challenges of accessing state services--where they align and where they don't.
See the report here: https://www.nascio.org/resource-center/resources/harnessing-genai-to-elevate-the-citizen-experience/
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Episode Transcript
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Amy Glasscock (00:05):
Hi, and welcome to NASCIO Voices, where we talk
all things state IT.
I'm Amy Glasscock in Lexington,Kentucky.
Alex Whitaker (00:11):
And I'm Alex Whitaker in Washington, D.C.
Today we're joined by EyalDarman with Accenture to discuss
a joint NASCIO Accenture reportreleased in September on
scaling generative AI forcitizen services.
Amy Glasscock (00:22):
In particular, we're talking about one of the
most interesting findings fromour joint report that has to do
with the differences in the waystate CIOs, citizens, and
frontline workers interpret thechallenges of accessing citizen
services.
Eyal, welcome to NASCIO Voicesand thanks so much for joining
us today.
Eyal Darmon (00:37):
Thank you for having me.
Amy Glasscock (00:38):
Absolutely.
So we worked together on thisreport about scaling generative
AI for citizen services, which Ithink is one of the most
promising uses of Gen AI instate government.
And today, instead of trying tocover everything in the report
in a short amount of time, wewanted to dig into one part of
the report that really jumpedout at us.
The places where CIOperceptions don't quite line up
(01:00):
with what citizens and frontlineemployees say are the biggest
challenges in accessing digitalservices.
And when a state's trying toscale Gen AI, I think it matters
to know what those differencesare.
So to start out, the data inthe report shows that CIOs
believe the biggest barrier forcitizens is knowing where to
(01:22):
begin.
You know, we talk a lot aboutkind of we need to revamp the
state websites for the no-wrongdoor thing.
It's confusing.
But nearly half of citizens saythe process actually just takes
too long.
So tell us more about that andyour thoughts around that
finding.
Eyal Darmon (01:37):
Well, thank you.
I mean, first, uh honored to bepart of this report with NASCIO
and Accenture.
And the data is just, it's verytelling about where we are in
the space of AI.
You know, specific to yourquestion, the data shows a
pretty starking mismatch.
State CIOs overwhelmingly pointto knowing where to begin as
(01:58):
the biggest barrier.
But almost 70% of CIOs chosethat.
Now, compared to only a thirdof citizens, you know, citizens
are saying something different.
About 50% say the real issue isthat the whole process just
takes way too long.
And then in comparison, onlyabout 20% of CIOs say that it
takes too long.
(02:18):
You know, what that reallytells us is that citizens are
not confused about what to donext.
They're really just frustratedby delays, slow systems, and you
know, long waits for outcomes.
CIOs tend to focus onnavigation and clarity, which
are immensely important.
But citizens really feel thedrag of inefficiency much more
(02:42):
than the complexity of theinstructions.
And that's exactly where Gen AIcan help.
If states use AI to shorten thecycle times, to automate
predictable tasks, and givecitizens real-time updates, just
like we have in some of ourprivate life engagement with
organizations, they'll reallyhelp to address the pain points
(03:02):
citizens actually talk about themost.
Amy Glasscock (03:05):
Yeah, that's great.
Good point.
Alex Whitaker (03:07):
Yeah.
So if we could like delve in, Ithink, a little bit on some of
the numbers surrounding thatquestion.
The report shows a disconnectaround digital literacy, with
50% of CIOs citing it as a topbarrier to citizens accessing
digital government services.
Um, but few consumers areactually agreeing with that.
And so, as well, there's amismatch around the idea that
citizens are having difficultynavigating government websites
(03:27):
or platforms, um, with 88% ofCISOs, uh sorry, of CIOs citing
this as a top issue with only56% of citizens.
What do you think is thedisconnect here?
Um, and I will say, as aconsumer of government services,
I certainly have somedifficulty navigating sometimes.
So I'm I'm on the side of theCIOs here, but but what do you
why do you think there's adisconnect?
That's fair.
I mean, here the numbersdiverge again.
Eyal Darmon (03:49):
Half of CIO believe digital literacy is the top
challenge, but only 19% ofcitizens say the same.
And when you asked, you know,about the difficulty of
navigating websites, you know,88% of CIOs say it's a major
barrier compared to only 56% ofconsumers.
You know, CIOs often interactwith edge cases.
(04:10):
You know, they get thecomplaints, the system
limitations that make navigationissues feel universal.
But citizens, on the otherhand, have probably grown more
comfortable with digitalexperiences overall.
Many are fluent with mobileapps, they do online banking,
they they buy things on Amazonand on other e-commerce sites.
(04:31):
So they don't feel, you know,they don't see basic navigation
as core hurdles.
But citizen do signaldiscomfort in other ways.
Nearly half prefer in-personinteractions.
Nearly half.
That's a lot.
And 63% prefer them over AI,even if it means the wait is
longer.
That's that's one of thestarking outcomes of this uh
(04:53):
survey.
Yeah.
And that shows the barrierisn't literacy, it's trust.
People can use the tools.
They're just not always surethey should use them, and
they're not comfortable usingthem yet.
And that will take time.
Amy Glasscock (05:07):
50% is kind of shocking.
I would have thought it wouldbe like a quarter.
Eyal Darmon (05:10):
I know.
I mean it's surprising, but thedata is the data, and the way
we've collected this data isreally showing that you know,
some of the things that maybe weexpect to happen are not really
showing in the actuals when youlook at the data itself.
Yeah.
Amy Glasscock (05:25):
Yeah.
Eyal Darmon (05:26):
So I think I've just outed myself as being
digitally illiterate there, too.
But we if you if you listen tothe podcast, you know that's
true.
So to each his own, we're notjudging.
Well, maybe we are judging, butwe're trying not to judge.
Alex Whitaker (05:37):
Yeah.
Okay.
So um, when it comes to sort ofaddressing the differences in
this data, in you know, in yourexperience, what are some ways
that state tech leaders can makesure that their assumptions
about citizen pain points lineup with people what people are
actually experiencing?
Eyal Darmon (05:51):
You know, a few methods stand out.
So one, you know, pairingturtle assumptions with direct
citizen evidence, just like wetalked about.
We make some assumptions, butmaybe it's not actually
materialized when you look atthe actual evidence.
So, surveys, your behaviorhealth data, and service journey
analytics give a more accuratepicture than anecdotal feedback
(06:12):
from agencies or departmentswithin a state.
I would absolutely also testwith real users early and often.
Rapid pilots that includecitizen interactions, as opposed
to maybe taking a group ofpeople and say, well, let's do
some internal testing.
Those things really surfacetrue friction points when you do
(06:33):
it with real citizens in realrapid pilots.
And I think that's important.
Um, I would use segmentationand not averages.
You know, in our report, wecame up with four different
consumer personas (06:45):
the digital natives, the early adopters, the
skeptics, and thetraditionalists.
Each group, if you read throughthe report, have different
digital expectations.
They have different trustlevels, and they have different
comfort with AI.
If CIOs design with personas inmind, they will avoid making
(07:07):
assumptions of one need of onegroup versus the need of
everyone.
And then the last method that Iwould recommend is to close
that feedback loop.
Embedding fast feedback toolswithin those digital experiences
really will help statesvalidate assumptions
continuously and not justannually or periodically when
(07:28):
maybe they introduce newexperiences.
Amy Glasscock (07:31):
So that's yeah, that's good.
Um, and I think that personapart of the report is really
interesting as well.
And I encourage folks to take alook at that, you know, see
where you see yourself in there,and remember that, you know,
citizens all have differentneeds and and wants when it
comes to interacting with thegovernment.
So in the report, we did seethat there is some strong
(07:53):
alignment in a couple of areaswhen it comes to the top
concerns.
And so about half of thecitizens surveyed and about half
of CIOs surveyed believe thatprivacy and security concerns
are an a big issue for citizens,and about half of both groups
believe that a lot of citizensstill prefer in-person services.
So, how can states use thisinformation to improve access to
(08:15):
citizen services?
Eyal Darmon (08:17):
Yeah, I mean, both groups hover around that 50%
mark uh when it comes toconcerns about privacy and
security, like you said.
And similar numbers believemany citizens, like we talked
about before, still preferin-person services.
You know, that alignment isreally powerful.
It signals to states that theyshould replace, or sorry, they
shouldn't replace human servicechannels.
(08:40):
They should modernize them andthey could take some practical
steps to do that.
So starting off, they can makesome AI augmentation to those
human interactions.
Not replace them, but augmentthem.
You know, I'll give you anexample: AI can pre-fill forms,
surface case histories, dodrafts of communications to
(09:01):
shorten the in-person visitactivities.
That way, citizens get faster,smoother experiences without the
losing of that personalconnection that they have come
to trust and that they'vereported that they trust.
I would signal securityclearly.
Citizens want proof that theirdata is safe.
And the unfortunate part is wehear about all the things that
(09:24):
happen in states or in otherorganizations where security
didn't meet expectations.
So you hear a lot of the badthings, and so you know, CIOs
can meet that expectation withvery strong transparency,
measures, and explainability offeatures so that there is a
consistent message about howgenerative AI and even AI in
(09:46):
general is really governed.
And then the last example Iwould share with you is to kind
of build multi-channel paths.
Some citizens want instantdigital services, some want
human, some probably want somehybrid depending on the
transaction.
States can really designjourneys that adjust to each
individual preference, ratherthan saying, well, this service
(10:08):
is only offered in one singlechannel for everyone.
And that goes back to ourpersonas.
You want to think aboutdifferent channels that are
available for the sametransaction, but that they fit
those individual personas.
Alex Whitaker (10:21):
Alright, so moving away a bit from the topic
of different perceptionsbetween citizens and CIOs, there
was another interesting part ofthe report that showed that
frontline government workers arekind of lukewarm about AI and
daily work.
So just 32% feel encouraged touse AI, only 28% use tools
several times a week.
I'm wondering if you think thisemployee hesitancy is hindering
(10:43):
states' ability to scale genAI?
Eyal Darmon (10:46):
It absolutely does.
You know, like you said, ifonly 32% of workers feel
encouraged to use AI, and only28% use AI several times a week,
and just over half areoptimistic about AI's impact on
day-to-day notes, those arethose are stark data points.
Now, why?
You know, when frontlineworkers aren't confident or
(11:07):
trained, Gen AI tools will justsit unused.
In the government space, it'simportant and critical to think
about how do we introducetraining, how do we introduce
change management into how Ichange the way I do work.
Even the best technologiesdepend on the willingness of the
workforce to use it.
(11:28):
So, yes, you know, hesitancydoes become a bottleneck.
Yeah.
Um, and CIOs know this.
They're recognizing this.
There's a need to put AIadoption at the center of
culture and capability and trustand create the training
programs in place to really helpbring and support our existing
(11:52):
staff line, our frontlineworkers, with this tool.
And I've seen a number ofstates have started to roll out
those capabilities.
And in talking to those CIOs,that's becoming the tipping
point for more adoption and moreusage.
Alex Whitaker (12:09):
So when it comes to kind of developing that
adoption and usage, is iteducation?
Is it training?
Is it encouragement?
Is it kind of all of the above?
What do you think is kind ofthe most effective strategy that
a CIO could utilize to build tobuild the trust with government
workers?
The short answer is yes, it'sall of those things.
Got it.
Eyal Darmon (12:26):
I mean, the the reports surface several
strategies, and they uh point tothe way to start thinking about
it.
So, you know, start with lowrisk, high-value use case.
That helps to build confidencewithout really creating too much
fear of how AI is gonna changethe way we do work.
You want to bring your workersand staff into the design
(12:47):
process, have them co-create,have them put their fingerprints
on these new workflows, onthese new solutions.
And really inviting them toshape how AI shows up in the
workflow will surely create theright set of ownership mindset.
You mentioned this before, wetalked about it investing in
training that's practical, notthe academic theoretical.
(13:09):
Give them fingers on keyboardto really do various AI
capabilities so that they cansee it in their day-to-day work,
not the academic classroom typesetting where I'm just
observing someone else doing it.
I think it's important, and wedon't talk about this enough,
but making sure that there'sclear ethical guidelines and
policies.
(13:29):
Responsible AI is the tippingpoint for someone who wants to
use this and someone who doesn'twant to use it.
And it's it's important.
And I think in our study, over90% of uh CIOs are already
focusing on responsible AIpractices, which is fantastic.
And then lastly, I can't statethis enough because I don't
think we do this enough ingovernment.
(13:50):
We need to celebrate successstories.
Workers need to hear about howAI is reducing workloads, it's
reducing backlogs, it's makingday-to-day tasks easier for them
and their peers, and it willcreate some envy of more people
wanting to use these tools.
And it should be shared notjust within a given agency or a
(14:11):
given department or a givenstate, but across states.
And I think NASIO does afantastic job celebrating those
success stories.
I would urge all of us tocontinue that celebration
because that makes thedifference.
Alex Whitaker (14:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, it's good to hear apositive spin on AI.
I feel like the last few weekswe've been hearing, I don't want
to say nothing bit negative,but lots more about kind of the
warnings.
Um, so this has been a really,really great conversation.
And then, of course, weencourage everyone to actually
read the whole report um and geta little bit more information
than just kind of this in-depthsection that we've talked about.
And we'll put a link in ourshow notes.
(14:45):
Um, that can also, but it canalso be accessed on the NASIO
Resource Center online.
So thank you again for joiningus.
But before we let you go, uh wehave to ask you three fun
questions about your lifeoutside of work in the segment
that we call.
The lightning round.
Are you ready?
I am ready.
Let's go.
All right.
So, first, if you couldinstantly become good at any
(15:08):
hobby in 2026, what would youchoose?
Eyal Darmon (15:11):
So I don't have any musical skills whatsoever.
So if I could instantly becomegood at something, I would learn
how to play the piano.
It's creative, it's meditative,uh, and it's totally different
from the pace of AI and thepublic service work that I do
today.
Amy Glasscock (15:26):
That's exactly what I would say too.
Alex Whitaker (15:28):
Nice.
Amy Glasscock (15:29):
In my head, I was like, I would learn to play
piano.
So next question.
What is a project that you wantto tackle in 2026 outside of
work, of course?
Eyal Darmon (15:39):
So I spend a lot of time on the road.
So my my honey-do list is long.
And so if I uh I don't thinkit's a project, I think it's
house projects with an S at theend.
And the list gets longer andlonger.
So I'm hoping that even before26 starts, I can get some of
that uh list down and uhcontinue to strive to keep it on
uh on a single page and notback uh back to back on two
(16:02):
pages.
Amy Glasscock (16:02):
It's never ending.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Nice.
All right, so Eyal um you and Ihave both lived in Denver, so I
like this third question.
Um, what do you think is thebest part about living in Denver
in the winter?
Eyal Darmon (16:13):
So I think one of the hidden things about Denver
that people don't realize isthat Denver gets over 300 days
of sunshine a year.
So my favorite part of Denverin the winter is that you can
have snow, it's not a cloud inthe sky, you can do some great
skiing and not have to worryabout the typical uh perception
(16:35):
that you have of skiing whereit's like cold and dreary, but
it's just a beautiful sunny day.
Yet there's snow on the groundand you're in the mountains and
you have a great day of skiingwith real good powder.
Alex Whitaker (16:46):
It's true.
With Denver weather.
I mean, it's 70 in the morningand then it's snowing at night.
It's crazy.
Eyal Darmon (16:51):
It it could also become 80 and you wouldn't even
realize it.
Uh and snow the next morning.
Alex Whitaker (16:55):
Uh-huh.
Absolutely.
Amy Glasscock (16:57):
I went skiing at Winter Park in March, I believe
it was, for the end of March.
So it was like spring breaktime, and you know, up on that
mountain, it was very cold.
And then we came down to Denverto fly home, and it was like,
oh, it really is springtime downhere.
So it's like a completelydifferent climate.
Yeah.
Eyal Darmon (17:13):
It's it's a it's a different experience than I
think most people perceive as uhColorado weather.
Amy Glasscock (17:18):
Yeah, that's true.
All right, Eyal, thanks againfor your time today.
We really appreciate it.
Thanks for coming on thepodcast.
Eyal Darmon (17:24):
Thank you so much.
I'm honored to be part of this.
Amy Glasscock (17:26):
Thanks.
Talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Thank you.
Alex Whitaker (17:29):
Thanks again for listening to NASCIO Voices.
It's a production of theNational Association of State
Chief Information Officers.
Learn more at NASCIO.org.
Amy Glasscock (17:35):
We'll be back next time with NASCIO President
J.R.
Sloan to chat about the yearahead.
Happy New Year.
Hi, and welcome to NASCIO Voices, where we talk
all things state IT.
I'm Amy Glasscock in Lexington,Kentucky.
Alex Whitaker (00:11):
And I'm Alex Whitaker in Washington, D.C.
Today we're joined by EyalDarman with Accenture to discuss
a joint NASCIO Accenture reportreleased in September on
scaling generative AI forcitizen services.
Amy Glasscock (00:22):
In particular, we're talking about one of the
most interesting findings fromour joint report that has to do
with the differences in the waystate CIOs, citizens, and
frontline workers interpret thechallenges of accessing citizen
services.
Eyal, welcome to NASCIO Voicesand thanks so much for joining
us today.
Eyal Darmon (00:37):
Thank you for having me.
Amy Glasscock (00:38):
Absolutely.
So we worked together on thisreport about scaling generative
AI for citizen services, which Ithink is one of the most
promising uses of Gen AI instate government.
And today, instead of trying tocover everything in the report
in a short amount of time, wewanted to dig into one part of
the report that really jumpedout at us.
The places where CIOperceptions don't quite line up
(01:00):
with what citizens and frontlineemployees say are the biggest
challenges in accessing digitalservices.
And when a state's trying toscale Gen AI, I think it matters
to know what those differencesare.
So to start out, the data inthe report shows that CIOs
believe the biggest barrier forcitizens is knowing where to
(01:22):
begin.
You know, we talk a lot aboutkind of we need to revamp the
state websites for the no-wrongdoor thing.
It's confusing.
But nearly half of citizens saythe process actually just takes
too long.
So tell us more about that andyour thoughts around that
finding.
Eyal Darmon (01:37):
Well, thank you.
I mean, first, uh honored to bepart of this report with NASCIO
and Accenture.
And the data is just, it's verytelling about where we are in
the space of AI.
You know, specific to yourquestion, the data shows a
pretty starking mismatch.
State CIOs overwhelmingly pointto knowing where to begin as
(01:58):
the biggest barrier.
But almost 70% of CIOs chosethat.
Now, compared to only a thirdof citizens, you know, citizens
are saying something different.
About 50% say the real issue isthat the whole process just
takes way too long.
And then in comparison, onlyabout 20% of CIOs say that it
takes too long.
(02:18):
You know, what that reallytells us is that citizens are
not confused about what to donext.
They're really just frustratedby delays, slow systems, and you
know, long waits for outcomes.
CIOs tend to focus onnavigation and clarity, which
are immensely important.
But citizens really feel thedrag of inefficiency much more
(02:42):
than the complexity of theinstructions.
And that's exactly where Gen AIcan help.
If states use AI to shorten thecycle times, to automate
predictable tasks, and givecitizens real-time updates, just
like we have in some of ourprivate life engagement with
organizations, they'll reallyhelp to address the pain points
(03:02):
citizens actually talk about themost.
Amy Glasscock (03:05):
Yeah, that's great.
Good point.
Alex Whitaker (03:07):
Yeah.
So if we could like delve in, Ithink, a little bit on some of
the numbers surrounding thatquestion.
The report shows a disconnectaround digital literacy, with
50% of CIOs citing it as a topbarrier to citizens accessing
digital government services.
Um, but few consumers areactually agreeing with that.
And so, as well, there's amismatch around the idea that
citizens are having difficultynavigating government websites
(03:27):
or platforms, um, with 88% ofCISOs, uh sorry, of CIOs citing
this as a top issue with only56% of citizens.
What do you think is thedisconnect here?
Um, and I will say, as aconsumer of government services,
I certainly have somedifficulty navigating sometimes.
So I'm I'm on the side of theCIOs here, but but what do you
why do you think there's adisconnect?
That's fair.
I mean, here the numbersdiverge again.
Eyal Darmon (03:49):
Half of CIO believe digital literacy is the top
challenge, but only 19% ofcitizens say the same.
And when you asked, you know,about the difficulty of
navigating websites, you know,88% of CIOs say it's a major
barrier compared to only 56% ofconsumers.
You know, CIOs often interactwith edge cases.
(04:10):
You know, they get thecomplaints, the system
limitations that make navigationissues feel universal.
But citizens, on the otherhand, have probably grown more
comfortable with digitalexperiences overall.
Many are fluent with mobileapps, they do online banking,
they they buy things on Amazonand on other e-commerce sites.
(04:31):
So they don't feel, you know,they don't see basic navigation
as core hurdles.
But citizen do signaldiscomfort in other ways.
Nearly half prefer in-personinteractions.
Nearly half.
That's a lot.
And 63% prefer them over AI,even if it means the wait is
longer.
That's that's one of thestarking outcomes of this uh
(04:53):
survey.
Yeah.
And that shows the barrierisn't literacy, it's trust.
People can use the tools.
They're just not always surethey should use them, and
they're not comfortable usingthem yet.
And that will take time.
Amy Glasscock (05:07):
50% is kind of shocking.
I would have thought it wouldbe like a quarter.
Eyal Darmon (05:10):
I know.
I mean it's surprising, but thedata is the data, and the way
we've collected this data isreally showing that you know,
some of the things that maybe weexpect to happen are not really
showing in the actuals when youlook at the data itself.
Yeah.
Amy Glasscock (05:25):
Yeah.
Eyal Darmon (05:26):
So I think I've just outed myself as being
digitally illiterate there, too.
But we if you if you listen tothe podcast, you know that's
true.
So to each his own, we're notjudging.
Well, maybe we are judging, butwe're trying not to judge.
Alex Whitaker (05:37):
Yeah.
Okay.
So um, when it comes to sort ofaddressing the differences in
this data, in you know, in yourexperience, what are some ways
that state tech leaders can makesure that their assumptions
about citizen pain points lineup with people what people are
actually experiencing?
Eyal Darmon (05:51):
You know, a few methods stand out.
So one, you know, pairingturtle assumptions with direct
citizen evidence, just like wetalked about.
We make some assumptions, butmaybe it's not actually
materialized when you look atthe actual evidence.
So, surveys, your behaviorhealth data, and service journey
analytics give a more accuratepicture than anecdotal feedback
(06:12):
from agencies or departmentswithin a state.
I would absolutely also testwith real users early and often.
Rapid pilots that includecitizen interactions, as opposed
to maybe taking a group ofpeople and say, well, let's do
some internal testing.
Those things really surfacetrue friction points when you do
(06:33):
it with real citizens in realrapid pilots.
And I think that's important.
Um, I would use segmentationand not averages.
You know, in our report, wecame up with four different
consumer personas (06:45):
the digital natives, the early adopters, the
skeptics, and thetraditionalists.
Each group, if you read throughthe report, have different
digital expectations.
They have different trustlevels, and they have different
comfort with AI.
If CIOs design with personas inmind, they will avoid making
(07:07):
assumptions of one need of onegroup versus the need of
everyone.
And then the last method that Iwould recommend is to close
that feedback loop.
Embedding fast feedback toolswithin those digital experiences
really will help statesvalidate assumptions
continuously and not justannually or periodically when
(07:28):
maybe they introduce newexperiences.
Amy Glasscock (07:31):
So that's yeah, that's good.
Um, and I think that personapart of the report is really
interesting as well.
And I encourage folks to take alook at that, you know, see
where you see yourself in there,and remember that, you know,
citizens all have differentneeds and and wants when it
comes to interacting with thegovernment.
So in the report, we did seethat there is some strong
(07:53):
alignment in a couple of areaswhen it comes to the top
concerns.
And so about half of thecitizens surveyed and about half
of CIOs surveyed believe thatprivacy and security concerns
are an a big issue for citizens,and about half of both groups
believe that a lot of citizensstill prefer in-person services.
So, how can states use thisinformation to improve access to
(08:15):
citizen services?
Eyal Darmon (08:17):
Yeah, I mean, both groups hover around that 50%
mark uh when it comes toconcerns about privacy and
security, like you said.
And similar numbers believemany citizens, like we talked
about before, still preferin-person services.
You know, that alignment isreally powerful.
It signals to states that theyshould replace, or sorry, they
shouldn't replace human servicechannels.
(08:40):
They should modernize them andthey could take some practical
steps to do that.
So starting off, they can makesome AI augmentation to those
human interactions.
Not replace them, but augmentthem.
You know, I'll give you anexample: AI can pre-fill forms,
surface case histories, dodrafts of communications to
(09:01):
shorten the in-person visitactivities.
That way, citizens get faster,smoother experiences without the
losing of that personalconnection that they have come
to trust and that they'vereported that they trust.
I would signal securityclearly.
Citizens want proof that theirdata is safe.
And the unfortunate part is wehear about all the things that
(09:24):
happen in states or in otherorganizations where security
didn't meet expectations.
So you hear a lot of the badthings, and so you know, CIOs
can meet that expectation withvery strong transparency,
measures, and explainability offeatures so that there is a
consistent message about howgenerative AI and even AI in
(09:46):
general is really governed.
And then the last example Iwould share with you is to kind
of build multi-channel paths.
Some citizens want instantdigital services, some want
human, some probably want somehybrid depending on the
transaction.
States can really designjourneys that adjust to each
individual preference, ratherthan saying, well, this service
(10:08):
is only offered in one singlechannel for everyone.
And that goes back to ourpersonas.
You want to think aboutdifferent channels that are
available for the sametransaction, but that they fit
those individual personas.
Alex Whitaker (10:21):
Alright, so moving away a bit from the topic
of different perceptionsbetween citizens and CIOs, there
was another interesting part ofthe report that showed that
frontline government workers arekind of lukewarm about AI and
daily work.
So just 32% feel encouraged touse AI, only 28% use tools
several times a week.
I'm wondering if you think thisemployee hesitancy is hindering
(10:43):
states' ability to scale genAI?
Eyal Darmon (10:46):
It absolutely does.
You know, like you said, ifonly 32% of workers feel
encouraged to use AI, and only28% use AI several times a week,
and just over half areoptimistic about AI's impact on
day-to-day notes, those arethose are stark data points.
Now, why?
You know, when frontlineworkers aren't confident or
(11:07):
trained, Gen AI tools will justsit unused.
In the government space, it'simportant and critical to think
about how do we introducetraining, how do we introduce
change management into how Ichange the way I do work.
Even the best technologiesdepend on the willingness of the
workforce to use it.
(11:28):
So, yes, you know, hesitancydoes become a bottleneck.
Yeah.
Um, and CIOs know this.
They're recognizing this.
There's a need to put AIadoption at the center of
culture and capability and trustand create the training
programs in place to really helpbring and support our existing
(11:52):
staff line, our frontlineworkers, with this tool.
And I've seen a number ofstates have started to roll out
those capabilities.
And in talking to those CIOs,that's becoming the tipping
point for more adoption and moreusage.
Alex Whitaker (12:09):
So when it comes to kind of developing that
adoption and usage, is iteducation?
Is it training?
Is it encouragement?
Is it kind of all of the above?
What do you think is kind ofthe most effective strategy that
a CIO could utilize to build tobuild the trust with government
workers?
The short answer is yes, it'sall of those things.
Got it.
Eyal Darmon (12:26):
I mean, the the reports surface several
strategies, and they uh point tothe way to start thinking about
it.
So, you know, start with lowrisk, high-value use case.
That helps to build confidencewithout really creating too much
fear of how AI is gonna changethe way we do work.
You want to bring your workersand staff into the design
(12:47):
process, have them co-create,have them put their fingerprints
on these new workflows, onthese new solutions.
And really inviting them toshape how AI shows up in the
workflow will surely create theright set of ownership mindset.
You mentioned this before, wetalked about it investing in
training that's practical, notthe academic theoretical.
(13:09):
Give them fingers on keyboardto really do various AI
capabilities so that they cansee it in their day-to-day work,
not the academic classroom typesetting where I'm just
observing someone else doing it.
I think it's important, and wedon't talk about this enough,
but making sure that there'sclear ethical guidelines and
policies.
(13:29):
Responsible AI is the tippingpoint for someone who wants to
use this and someone who doesn'twant to use it.
And it's it's important.
And I think in our study, over90% of uh CIOs are already
focusing on responsible AIpractices, which is fantastic.
And then lastly, I can't statethis enough because I don't
think we do this enough ingovernment.
(13:50):
We need to celebrate successstories.
Workers need to hear about howAI is reducing workloads, it's
reducing backlogs, it's makingday-to-day tasks easier for them
and their peers, and it willcreate some envy of more people
wanting to use these tools.
And it should be shared notjust within a given agency or a
(14:11):
given department or a givenstate, but across states.
And I think NASIO does afantastic job celebrating those
success stories.
I would urge all of us tocontinue that celebration
because that makes thedifference.
Alex Whitaker (14:24):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, it's good to hear apositive spin on AI.
I feel like the last few weekswe've been hearing, I don't want
to say nothing bit negative,but lots more about kind of the
warnings.
Um, so this has been a really,really great conversation.
And then, of course, weencourage everyone to actually
read the whole report um and geta little bit more information
than just kind of this in-depthsection that we've talked about.
And we'll put a link in ourshow notes.
(14:45):
Um, that can also, but it canalso be accessed on the NASIO
Resource Center online.
So thank you again for joiningus.
But before we let you go, uh wehave to ask you three fun
questions about your lifeoutside of work in the segment
that we call.
The lightning round.
Are you ready?
I am ready.
Let's go.
All right.
So, first, if you couldinstantly become good at any
(15:08):
hobby in 2026, what would youchoose?
Eyal Darmon (15:11):
So I don't have any musical skills whatsoever.
So if I could instantly becomegood at something, I would learn
how to play the piano.
It's creative, it's meditative,uh, and it's totally different
from the pace of AI and thepublic service work that I do
today.
Amy Glasscock (15:26):
That's exactly what I would say too.
Alex Whitaker (15:28):
Nice.
Amy Glasscock (15:29):
In my head, I was like, I would learn to play
piano.
So next question.
What is a project that you wantto tackle in 2026 outside of
work, of course?
Eyal Darmon (15:39):
So I spend a lot of time on the road.
So my my honey-do list is long.
And so if I uh I don't thinkit's a project, I think it's
house projects with an S at theend.
And the list gets longer andlonger.
So I'm hoping that even before26 starts, I can get some of
that uh list down and uhcontinue to strive to keep it on
uh on a single page and notback uh back to back on two
(16:02):
pages.
Amy Glasscock (16:02):
It's never ending.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Nice.
All right, so Eyal um you and Ihave both lived in Denver, so I
like this third question.
Um, what do you think is thebest part about living in Denver
in the winter?
Eyal Darmon (16:13):
So I think one of the hidden things about Denver
that people don't realize isthat Denver gets over 300 days
of sunshine a year.
So my favorite part of Denverin the winter is that you can
have snow, it's not a cloud inthe sky, you can do some great
skiing and not have to worryabout the typical uh perception
(16:35):
that you have of skiing whereit's like cold and dreary, but
it's just a beautiful sunny day.
Yet there's snow on the groundand you're in the mountains and
you have a great day of skiingwith real good powder.
Alex Whitaker (16:46):
It's true.
With Denver weather.
I mean, it's 70 in the morningand then it's snowing at night.
It's crazy.
Eyal Darmon (16:51):
It it could also become 80 and you wouldn't even
realize it.
Uh and snow the next morning.
Alex Whitaker (16:55):
Uh-huh.
Absolutely.
Amy Glasscock (16:57):
I went skiing at Winter Park in March, I believe
it was, for the end of March.
So it was like spring breaktime, and you know, up on that
mountain, it was very cold.
And then we came down to Denverto fly home, and it was like,
oh, it really is springtime downhere.
So it's like a completelydifferent climate.
Yeah.
Eyal Darmon (17:13):
It's it's a it's a different experience than I
think most people perceive as uhColorado weather.
Amy Glasscock (17:18):
Yeah, that's true.
All right, Eyal, thanks againfor your time today.
We really appreciate it.
Thanks for coming on thepodcast.
Eyal Darmon (17:24):
Thank you so much.
I'm honored to be part of this.
Amy Glasscock (17:26):
Thanks.
Talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Thank you.
Alex Whitaker (17:29):
Thanks again for listening to NASCIO Voices.
It's a production of theNational Association of State
Chief Information Officers.
Learn more at NASCIO.org.
Amy Glasscock (17:35):
We'll be back next time with NASCIO President
J.R.
Sloan to chat about the yearahead.
Happy New Year.
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