March 26, 2026 • 26 mins
Join Amy Glasscock and Alex Whitaker as they sit down with Craig Orgeron, Mississippi's CIO, for an in-depth conversation about digital transformation in state government. Craig shares his unique journey from state CIO to the private sector and back again, offering valuable insights on AI innovation, procurement modernization, and building resilient digital infrastructure. Discover how Mississippi is tackling the digital divide, establishing AI frameworks, and preparing for the future of government technology.
Show Notes
0:00 - Introduction
Amy and Alex welcome Craig Orgeron back to NASCIO Voices
0:21 - Return to State CIO Role
Craig discusses his unexpected return to Mississippi's CIO position after three and a half years in the private sector, reflecting on the challenges of his first year back
3:00 - Lessons from Private Sector
Craig shares key insights from his time outside government, including deeper appreciation for private sector competition and the value of the NASCIO network
9:18 - Mississippi's Digital Government Agenda
Overview of major initiatives including procurement modernization, cloud migration, innovation fund, AI executive order, and new cybersecurity legislation
15:06 - Digital Equity Initiatives
Craig highlights grassroots efforts like the Mississippi AI Network (MAIN), AI Collaborative, and Mississippi Cyber Initiative working to close the digital divide
18:42 - AI Strategy and Policy
Discussion of AI governance, the democratization of technology, data quality, change fitness, and the importance of transparency and accountability in AI deployment
24:11 - Lightning Round
Quick questions about vacation plans (European river cruise!), Mississippi travel recommendations (blues trail, museums, Elvi's restaurant), and excitement for the NASCIO midyear meeting
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amy Glasscock (00:05):
Hi, and welcome to NASCIO Voices, where we talk
all things state IT.
I'm Amy Glasscock in Lexington,Kentucky.
Alex Whitaker (00:11):
And I'm Alex Whitaker in Washington, D.C.
Today we're joined by CraigOrgeron, Chief Information
Officer for the State ofMississippi.
He's here to tell us aboutwhat's going on in his state and
why he came back to the role ofstate CIO after some time away.
Amy Glasscock (00:23):
That's right.
Craig, welcome to NASCIO Voicesand thanks so much for joining
us.
Craig Orgeron (00:27):
Oh, it is a pleasure to be here.
Thanks for asking me to join.
Alex Whitaker (00:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
I can't believe we haven't hadyou on before, Craig.
This is uh surprising.
You know, because of coursethis is not your first time
serving as CIO for the state ofMississippi.
Um, so tell us about uh thepath that took you from CIO to
the private sector and then allthe way back to your current
role.
Craig Orgeron (00:45):
Well, I think I would start by saying it wasn't
fully expected to be back, um,but I did have a uh a wonderful
uh first time in the role.
Um I was in my tenth year whenI did decide to retire.
Uh, and I had, of course, thedistinct pleasure of serving as
um NASIO's president as well.
But no, I think you know, youyou're in this role, and you
(01:08):
know, you sort of look aroundand you've done a lot of things
and you want to kind ofexperience, you know, uh what
else is out there.
Um, I do think that it wasn'tjust in the COVID year in 2020
when I when I did leave thefirst time, but I think the role
of the state CIO was changing.
We saw a lot of private sectorcompanies, you know, really
(01:32):
beginning to really rely on, youknow, CIOs that were leaving
government or CIOs that weretransitioning because that sort
of strategic conversation was,you know, so important.
So I did leave for the privatesector, did that for a few
years, pivoted over to workingwith the Center for Digital
(01:54):
Government as a senior fellowand did some teaching as well.
And uh lo and behold, in 2024,I got a phone call to ask if I
was interested uh in returning.
And uh it has been, I will tellyou, an amazing nearly two
years back in terms of what thestate is doing, the things that
(02:14):
we've accomplished.
You know, we are in the lastweek of our 2026 legislative
session.
Um so it is certainly thrillingto be back, though.
I will say I got a lot ofquestions at the beginning of,
you know, why did you come backor something?
I did have a friend that askedme about you know the challenge
if you know the role before.
But what I would say verydeclaratively is my first year
(02:37):
back was as hard as my firstyear originally.
You know, it's it's a tough,it's a tough job, as y'all know.
But I am really proud of whatthe state, you know, has
accomplished in the last fewyears.
And I I think it sets theagency on a transformative path.
And, you know, very proud ofthe team here at ITS.
We were we were just meeting umearlier this morning.
(02:59):
So I think our executivemanagement team is an amazing
collection of very dedicated andtalented folks that are serving
uh their state and the citizensof our state.
Alex Whitaker (03:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm really curious about uhyou know the reasons for why it
uh was as challenging that firstyear.
I mean, curious about whetherthere were any lessons from the
private sector or maybe theCenter for Digital Governance
that you brought back with youwhen you uh came back to the
state.
Craig Orgeron (03:26):
Well, I will tell I will tell you this.
So I think you know, I lived ina little bit of a state bubble,
you know, you know, for years,having had a long career in
government before getting thejob the first time.
I think though, Alex, thatseeing the other side and really
appreciating the other side,really appreciating, you know,
the challenges in the privatesector, right?
(03:47):
That these firms are competingfor market share.
They're they're attempting todifferentiate.
That's what private sectorfolks do.
And sometimes I think, youknow, given the career I had in
government, I don't know that Ihad a full appreciation for that
challenge.
You know, on the public sectorside, you can really feel like
you're grappling with so manypotential business partners that
(04:11):
are out there, and how do youhave these conversations that
are appropriate and those kindof things?
So I think it was a it was veryinformative for me to see that.
I think it was also amazing toreally re-appreciate and sort of
double down on the gratitudefor the network that is out
(04:32):
there, right?
So we often talk about the theNASIO network and when we get
together.
Um, but I think one of my keylessons was that that that
network really is even moreexpansive.
Um, it is expansive into ourprivate sector partners.
And, you know, that realizationthat a quick text message or a
(04:54):
quick call for advice is is anamazing, valuable resource to
have, you know, as you'reattempting um to do the job.
Coming back was just as tough.
I mean, you are walking intokind of a 24-7 kind of job,
whether it's the operationalpiece or the policy and
(05:16):
political parts of it.
You re-acclimate, I think, tothat.
You know, if you're sitting inthat chair, you're asked to
build these strategic agendas,strategy and communication, the
the top two components of astate CIO, and you're asked to
do that, to move the stateforward.
The organizational elements areare very, very challenging as
(05:39):
well.
Not that you, because here wecertainly do have wonderful
people, I think it's reallystructural.
How do you need to bestructured as an example for
artificial intelligence, right?
I mean, it's not just an AIofficer or a team that's
handling it, it's really insideyour organization.
How do you deliver what youneed to deliver well?
(06:00):
So there's a lot of movingparts to get your head wrapped
around and get moving.
When you do get that momentum,it is an amazing feeling to get
that momentum and to be movingon the initiatives that the
state has.
Amy Glasscock (06:17):
So you were away from that position, was it about
four years?
Craig Orgeron (06:22):
Yeah, it was about three and a half or so.
I left in August of 20 and cameback in the summer of 24.
So not quite.
Amy Glasscock (06:30):
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
So and I was thinking back towhen I first started at NASIO in
2014 and you were ourpresident, our NASIO president
at the time.
And so as NASIO president, youalways have an invitation to
NASIO events.
And so during that time thatyou were away from the CIO role,
I mean, we never lost touch.
You were at our events, whetheras a corporate member or coming
(06:52):
to our premier receptions aspast president.
So that's been great.
But I'm wondering if duringthat time that you were gone,
you felt like anything hadchanged.
Was there anything that mighthave surprised you when you came
back?
Craig Orgeron (07:04):
I think there was a a couple things with the way
you ask it, Amy.
I think first, this the speedwith which innovation happens
certainly changed.
We three can say this toourselves, but it really struck
me that the pace of technicalchange and innovation has always
been at odds in in some mannerof speaking with the pace of
(07:26):
government, right?
So I've always, it has alwayshit me like a brick that we've
married government andtechnology to just tremendously
different things, just from apace and a deliberateness, and
how much more nimble, agile, andflexible we need to be.
So I think on the state side,the dauntingness of the pace
(07:49):
itself, and you still have totranslate it, right?
Even if the governmentstructures, the budgeting
process, the policymakingprocess, it is in essence very
much the same, you still have totraverse that.
You have to traverse and Ithink be a communicator between
those worlds, right?
(08:10):
Because you will get asked alot of those kinds of questions.
I think on the on the NASIOside, I I think about the
serving as president and beingon the executive committee for
many years, and now just thegrowth of that community, right?
Which is what you would expect.
States are going to be spendingmore on technology by
(08:33):
definition because there is justmore technology.
And so that community has grownso significantly.
And those are certainly two ofthe things that struck me and
continue to strike me as webuild the agenda here to move
the state forward.
Amy Glasscock (08:51):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true.
It it has grown a lot since youwere first involved with NASIO.
And I should say too that youare on the executive committee
again in this new iteration ofyour job.
So we really appreciate that.
And we were actually justsaying at our staff meeting
earlier today when I mentionedthat we were going to be
interviewing you, everyone wasjust kind of saying how much
they appreciate you andeverything that you do for NASIO
(09:14):
and all of your hard work andjust being a nice person as
well.
Thank you for that.
Okay, so tell us what is on theagenda for the next few years.
What are you most excited aboutand any big projects that you
have coming up?
Craig Orgeron (09:26):
Oh, sure.
So lots going on.
I think from a big pictureperspective, we embarked upon my
return of procurementmodernization.
It had been things we sort ofnibbled at, but we not only
created a procurementmodernization advisory committee
with our 30 largest agenciesand kicked off an engagement to
(09:47):
help us facilitate that.
We got some legislation passedlast year, House Bill 958, to
move us down that path.
In House Bill 1491 from the2025 session, we got a cloud
center of excellence put intostatute and have had a very good
year building momentum to makesome more aggressive assessments
(10:10):
and migrations to the cloud.
Also, in House Bill 1491, therewas a first ever innovation
fund for the state ofMississippi, which we had not
had before.
And this year we sought toreally seed that fund and focus
it on artificial intelligence,which we did.
We, from an artificialintelligence perspective, of
(10:34):
course, working with ourgovernor, Governor Reeves, the
governor signed Executive Order1584, which sort of pushed the
state forward in artificialintelligence.
We stood up an AI innovationhub that brings together
partners from across the state,universities, to really do that
part of government verydifferent, very much more
(10:56):
iterative, very flexible andagile to move that ball forward.
We, in addition, thelegislature last year passed
Senate Bill 2267, which directedus to study the feasibility of
a data exchange in the state.
And we have a long way to gofrom a data maturity perspective
(11:20):
and how we need to move theball forward.
In this year, we've also had afabulous legislative session and
very grateful.
So we have two net new topics.
One has already been passed,I'm very pleased to say, and
signed by the governor.
It's an optimization initiativethat really, for the first time
ever in a federated state,creates a framework for us to
(11:45):
really develop, and my dearfriend Eric Sweden would, I
think, be happy about this, abusiness and technical
architecture.
So the governor has signedthat.
We have another, that is SenateBill 2563.
Senate Bill 2564 from thissession, which is still quite at
the end of the process, it's init's in conference now, but it
(12:07):
will direct us to work in stategovernment to set up a
cybersecurity operations centerto kind of move forward in
maturing cybersecurity in thestate.
So it does seem to have wind inits sails that the legislature
wants to move forward on.
So across those two years,whether it's procurement
(12:29):
modernization, artificialintelligence, a much more
profound cloud migration from amodernization perspective,
looking at data.
So I'm very, very proud of thatagenda over the last two years.
So I think, Amy, we were ableto craft kind of a very
(12:51):
compelling set of initiatives,but I think you have to have a
lot of folks at the table.
There has to be your governor,has to be behind you.
You have to have legislativesponsors and leaders, right, who
want to sit down.
We've got two wonderfultechnology chairs in the House
and Senate where a lot of thesebills were debated and talked
(13:14):
through.
So it's really been an amazingcouple of years in terms of
seeing those initiatives reallyat the very beginning to take
off.
That said, there's always otherbig projects, right?
Whether it's going to be a DMVmodernization, which we were
talking at the capital of thissession about, other big
(13:35):
projects that are in flight,several other large
modernization efforts that aregoing to be sort of the state's
first cloud native solutions tomove forward on.
So no shortage of excitingthings to do.
We are a 27 state by way of ourgubernatorial elections.
(13:56):
So we're not in that big cohortthis coming November, but the
year after.
And so we are ramping up andthrough the end of Governor
Reeves' administration andclearly and I think
strategically thinking aboutthis time frame, but the end of
an administration and what thattransition would be in January
(14:19):
of 28 and how to position thestate and these initiatives with
the new governor.
Alex Whitaker (14:27):
Certainly a lot of new governors are going to be
coming in over the next year.
So I don't know if I envy DougRobinson and all the calls he's
going to be making.
I guess early next year.
Well, that's great.
So as as you and I have talkedabout, I can count myself lucky
to have been able to grow up alot of my childhood in
Mississippi.
Great state.
Um but knowing the state, Ialso know that there are some
challenges in reaching some ofthe underserved populations, are
(14:49):
there as there are in allstates, not unique to
Mississippi.
But would love to know how areyou all in Mississippi working
to make sure that everybody hasaccess to digital services so
that everybody who wants toaccess those great things the
state is offering can do so?
Craig Orgeron (15:02):
Yeah, that's a fabulous question.
I think there's a few thingsthat I came back to and have
worked to partner with andnurture in my couple of years
back.
But Alex, the way you frame itis so spot on.
We used to talk about thedigital divide being there, but
with things like artificialintelligence, these gaps in some
ways can grow where there's adisenfranchisement that can be
(15:27):
exceedingly expansive,especially something as
transformational as artificialintelligence.
There's a couple of things Iwas thinking about.
We have uh some initiatives inthe state that I've never quite
seen before.
One is the MississippiArtificial Intelligence Network.
We call it Maine.
It is run out of theMississippi Gulf Coast Community
(15:50):
College in partnership withMississippi State University.
And it's amazing.
Maine is a kind of a grassrootscollaborative, if you will,
consortium, maybe is a betterword, that's really focused on
access, skilling, training forthe future.
Its director is Dr.
(16:10):
Colin Napier.
And Colin and I have becomefriends, and what Maine is able
to do in the lens that I have asa state CIO is amazing because
they have this network that theyhave built, getting the word
out, helping people, really,like you were saying, Alex,
(16:33):
about getting folks the kind oftraining and the and the skills
they need.
We have a second one called theAI Collaborative.
In some ways, Maine's focus isuniversities, kind of community
colleges, although they'vegrown.
Our AI Collaborative is kind ofhas a deeper K-12 focus.
They're both havingconferences, putting on
(16:55):
workshops and training.
So those two are just have beenamazing.
We have a third one called theMississippi Cyber Initiative,
which is very similar, right?
So it's raising the bar oncyber education, bringing
parties together.
And so one of the comments thatI've made regularly is you, as
(17:20):
a state CIO, can burn a lot ofcalories, a lot of energy
bringing people together, right?
That can be some giant part ofthe job.
How do you bring peopletogether?
How do you build momentum?
And these consortiums havereally been amazing.
And I think that really toucheson kind of a key part of your
(17:43):
question of how do you raise thebar?
How do you ensure that thatthat rising tide helps everyone?
And and a shout out to thoseconsortiums in Mississippi
because I think they areamazing, and I think it kind of
shows the kind of grassrootsefforts that's happening in the
state around some of theseinnovative technologies.
Amy Glasscock (18:04):
A lot of good work happening in Mississippi
for sure.
Craig Orgeron (18:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Amy Glasscock (18:08):
So, Craig, we've mentioned AI a couple times in
this conversation, but you can'tget out of this podcast without
us asking about it directly.
So we know from our survey dataand that pretty much all of the
states are using generative AInow.
So we'd love to hear a littlebit more about how Gen AI works
into your plans.
And then are there any thingsthat you're particularly excited
(18:29):
or worried about around AI ingeneral?
Craig Orgeron (18:33):
Great question.
So I mentioned in coming backin in 24, my first really my
first six weeks back, we wereable to draft, the team was able
to draft an executive order forthe governor to consider, which
he did and ended up signing.
The legislature in 2025 passedSenate Bill 2426, which was sort
(18:56):
of an AI, I say task force, Iknow, which is an overused term,
but it was really intended tobring people together in and
through calendar year 25, whichwe did to talk about regulatory
issues or challenges orpotential legislative issues or
challenges or things that weneeded to consider doing.
(19:20):
But a couple of the high pointsto me are our AI Innovation Hub
in partnership with Maine, thegroup I had mentioned and AWS,
to really try to get use caseswith agencies developed much
quicker in a much more agile waythan government has typically
(19:40):
worked here to move the ballforward.
So lots of excitement there.
I will say though that I thinka lot of the use cases are only
really just beginning tosomewhat morph away from kind of
what I kind of term theindividual contributor mindset
(20:00):
to something approaching atscale, approaching, impacting
how organizations work or howorganizations serve the citizens
of Mississippi.
So I think that is some of thecomponents which I think are
amazing.
The House, this session passedHouse Bill 1723 to define
(20:22):
artificial intelligence, andthat was sort of some of the
work coming out of thecommittee.
We put together kind of a bestof breed acceptable use policy
with guiding principles.
Some folks refer to them as AIBill of Rights.
So lots of good foundationalsort of framework things in the
last year to help us pivot towhat is next.
(20:47):
I will tell you, though, acouple of points.
So to me, when you think of AI,I tend to think of the
democratization of thetechnology, what's in everyone's
hands.
When it is, it helps augment.
It has an augmentative qualityof I'm faster, I'm better at the
things I'm doing.
One key component, of course,is data, and that I think about
(21:10):
a lot.
The bright shiny object, right,to quote Doug Robinson, it's
still a little distracting withAI.
I think there's got to be a lotof conversations about the
quality of the data from allvantage points.
I think viewing data as astrategic asset and having the
pieces and parts that you needare critically important.
(21:33):
A fourth element that I thinkwe see the glimmers of is this
idea of change fitness.
How well do you metabolizechange?
Inside of an organization, Ithink I have expectations that
this will dramatically alter howwe work.
There are prognostications of ahundred million robocolleagues
(21:56):
or a hundred million syntheticteam members.
Members that are going toreally alter the way that work
gets done.
And so I think the ability fororganizations to metabolize that
change and pivot is going to bewildly important.
And I think I would end with Istill think we don't need to be
scared about talking about bias,about transparency, about
(22:22):
accountability.
These technologies and thesemodels are just amazing what
they can do generative.
These generative, pre-trainedtransformers that are going to
be part of our world.
But I don't think we need toget overly enamored.
I still think that there is athoughtful policy about how
these tools are used, how theyimpact individuals, and then
(22:45):
specifically the explainabilityor transparency of these models.
I think that is a mildlyneglected or it became much more
of a back seat as in Novemberof 22 when this thing really
took off like a rocket ship.
And I think we need to keepthose appropriately in front of
us, right?
(23:05):
Not to dampen the concept ofinnovation, but to keep to keep
those other policy type thingsin front of us as well.
Amy Glasscock (23:13):
Yeah, I think that's right too.
All right.
Well, we have definitelycovered a lot of ground.
So anything in particular thatyou wanted to discuss that we
may have missed today?
Craig Orgeron (23:22):
I don't think so.
I think the last couple ofyears here in Mississippi have
been amazingly productive, and Icertainly look forward to at
least being at the beginning ofbeing able to see some of those
things come to fruition for ourstate.
Amy Glasscock (23:37):
Yeah, great.
Alex Whitaker (23:38):
Awesome.
Well, Craig, thanks so much forthat perspective.
Obviously, so many cool thingsgoing on in Mississippi.
So it's great to hear aboutthem.
But of course, before we letyou go, we can't let you leave
without a few questions and around that we call the lightning
round.
Craig Orgeron (23:53):
Are you ready?
Maybe, yes.
Alex Whitaker (23:56):
All right.
So spring is here, which meanssummer is right around the
corner.
Any fun vacation plans comingup in the next few months?
Craig Orgeron (24:02):
Well, one thing that the the Orgerons would be
doing is we're going to be doinga river cruise in Europe.
Oh.
First ever.
So hopefully we will get thereand get back with all the travel
things.
But yeah, that one's prettyexciting about that one.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Amy Glasscock (24:19):
That does sound fun.
I'd love to do that sometime.
All right.
Next question.
What would you recommend thatsomeone visiting Mississippi for
the first time see, do, eat,hear?
Whatever your recommendationis.
Craig Orgeron (24:31):
Oh, Gosh!
Amy Glasscock (24:32):
It doesn't have to be all of them.
Craig Orgeron (24:33):
I mean, we have a fabulous blues trail.
If the history of the blues isanything of interest, we have
two amazing new museums indowntown that I I highly, highly
recommend you visit.
And then, of course, it isMississippi, and so eat eating
is a hobby.
There is a lovely place that Ithink was just awarded a
(24:56):
Michelin star called Elvies in apart of town that's sort of
getting revived.
So I would highly recommendbrunch at Elvi's if you were
here and want somethingdelicious to eat.
Amy Glasscock (25:08):
Sounds fun.
All right.
And then last lightning roundquestion how excited are you for
the NASIO mid-year meeting inPhiladelphia next month?
Craig Orgeron (25:16):
I'm super excited.
That's the right answer.
I kind of miss National Harbor,to tell you the truth.
But look looking forward to I Ithink the thing I look forward
to is a version of this, likere-reconnecting with everyone.
And we will be taking our teamthere, and we'll look forward to
lots of great conversation.
Amy Glasscock (25:34):
Great.
Well, we look forward to seeingyou and your team and everybody
else in Philadelphia nextmonth.
So thanks again, Craig.
We really appreciate talking toyou and for you taking the time
out during a busy schedule totalk to us.
Craig Orgeron (25:46):
So you got it.
Amy Glasscock (25:47):
See you soon.
Thanks.
Alex Whitaker (25:48):
All right.
Craig Orgeron (25:48):
Bye, y'all.
Amy Glasscock (25:49):
Bye.
Alex Whitaker (25:49):
Thanks.
Thanks again for listening toNASIO Voices.
NASCIO Voices is a productionof the National Association of
State Chief InformationOfficers.
Learn more at NASIO.org.
Amy Glasscock (25:59):
We'll be back soon with more great state IT
content.
And don't forget to like andsubscribe wherever you listen to
podcasts.
Hi, and welcome to NASCIO Voices, where we talk
all things state IT.
I'm Amy Glasscock in Lexington,Kentucky.
Alex Whitaker (00:11):
And I'm Alex Whitaker in Washington, D.C.
Today we're joined by CraigOrgeron, Chief Information
Officer for the State ofMississippi.
He's here to tell us aboutwhat's going on in his state and
why he came back to the role ofstate CIO after some time away.
Amy Glasscock (00:23):
That's right.
Craig, welcome to NASCIO Voicesand thanks so much for joining
us.
Craig Orgeron (00:27):
Oh, it is a pleasure to be here.
Thanks for asking me to join.
Alex Whitaker (00:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
I can't believe we haven't hadyou on before, Craig.
This is uh surprising.
You know, because of coursethis is not your first time
serving as CIO for the state ofMississippi.
Um, so tell us about uh thepath that took you from CIO to
the private sector and then allthe way back to your current
role.
Craig Orgeron (00:45):
Well, I think I would start by saying it wasn't
fully expected to be back, um,but I did have a uh a wonderful
uh first time in the role.
Um I was in my tenth year whenI did decide to retire.
Uh, and I had, of course, thedistinct pleasure of serving as
um NASIO's president as well.
But no, I think you know, youyou're in this role, and you
(01:08):
know, you sort of look aroundand you've done a lot of things
and you want to kind ofexperience, you know, uh what
else is out there.
Um, I do think that it wasn'tjust in the COVID year in 2020
when I when I did leave thefirst time, but I think the role
of the state CIO was changing.
We saw a lot of private sectorcompanies, you know, really
(01:32):
beginning to really rely on, youknow, CIOs that were leaving
government or CIOs that weretransitioning because that sort
of strategic conversation was,you know, so important.
So I did leave for the privatesector, did that for a few
years, pivoted over to workingwith the Center for Digital
(01:54):
Government as a senior fellowand did some teaching as well.
And uh lo and behold, in 2024,I got a phone call to ask if I
was interested uh in returning.
And uh it has been, I will tellyou, an amazing nearly two
years back in terms of what thestate is doing, the things that
(02:14):
we've accomplished.
You know, we are in the lastweek of our 2026 legislative
session.
Um so it is certainly thrillingto be back, though.
I will say I got a lot ofquestions at the beginning of,
you know, why did you come backor something?
I did have a friend that askedme about you know the challenge
if you know the role before.
But what I would say verydeclaratively is my first year
(02:37):
back was as hard as my firstyear originally.
You know, it's it's a tough,it's a tough job, as y'all know.
But I am really proud of whatthe state, you know, has
accomplished in the last fewyears.
And I I think it sets theagency on a transformative path.
And, you know, very proud ofthe team here at ITS.
We were we were just meeting umearlier this morning.
(02:59):
So I think our executivemanagement team is an amazing
collection of very dedicated andtalented folks that are serving
uh their state and the citizensof our state.
Alex Whitaker (03:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I'm really curious about uhyou know the reasons for why it
uh was as challenging that firstyear.
I mean, curious about whetherthere were any lessons from the
private sector or maybe theCenter for Digital Governance
that you brought back with youwhen you uh came back to the
state.
Craig Orgeron (03:26):
Well, I will tell I will tell you this.
So I think you know, I lived ina little bit of a state bubble,
you know, you know, for years,having had a long career in
government before getting thejob the first time.
I think though, Alex, thatseeing the other side and really
appreciating the other side,really appreciating, you know,
the challenges in the privatesector, right?
(03:47):
That these firms are competingfor market share.
They're they're attempting todifferentiate.
That's what private sectorfolks do.
And sometimes I think, youknow, given the career I had in
government, I don't know that Ihad a full appreciation for that
challenge.
You know, on the public sectorside, you can really feel like
you're grappling with so manypotential business partners that
(04:11):
are out there, and how do youhave these conversations that
are appropriate and those kindof things?
So I think it was a it was veryinformative for me to see that.
I think it was also amazing toreally re-appreciate and sort of
double down on the gratitudefor the network that is out
(04:32):
there, right?
So we often talk about the theNASIO network and when we get
together.
Um, but I think one of my keylessons was that that that
network really is even moreexpansive.
Um, it is expansive into ourprivate sector partners.
And, you know, that realizationthat a quick text message or a
(04:54):
quick call for advice is is anamazing, valuable resource to
have, you know, as you'reattempting um to do the job.
Coming back was just as tough.
I mean, you are walking intokind of a 24-7 kind of job,
whether it's the operationalpiece or the policy and
(05:16):
political parts of it.
You re-acclimate, I think, tothat.
You know, if you're sitting inthat chair, you're asked to
build these strategic agendas,strategy and communication, the
the top two components of astate CIO, and you're asked to
do that, to move the stateforward.
The organizational elements areare very, very challenging as
(05:39):
well.
Not that you, because here wecertainly do have wonderful
people, I think it's reallystructural.
How do you need to bestructured as an example for
artificial intelligence, right?
I mean, it's not just an AIofficer or a team that's
handling it, it's really insideyour organization.
How do you deliver what youneed to deliver well?
(06:00):
So there's a lot of movingparts to get your head wrapped
around and get moving.
When you do get that momentum,it is an amazing feeling to get
that momentum and to be movingon the initiatives that the
state has.
Amy Glasscock (06:17):
So you were away from that position, was it about
four years?
Craig Orgeron (06:22):
Yeah, it was about three and a half or so.
I left in August of 20 and cameback in the summer of 24.
So not quite.
Amy Glasscock (06:30):
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
So and I was thinking back towhen I first started at NASIO in
2014 and you were ourpresident, our NASIO president
at the time.
And so as NASIO president, youalways have an invitation to
NASIO events.
And so during that time thatyou were away from the CIO role,
I mean, we never lost touch.
You were at our events, whetheras a corporate member or coming
(06:52):
to our premier receptions aspast president.
So that's been great.
But I'm wondering if duringthat time that you were gone,
you felt like anything hadchanged.
Was there anything that mighthave surprised you when you came
back?
Craig Orgeron (07:04):
I think there was a a couple things with the way
you ask it, Amy.
I think first, this the speedwith which innovation happens
certainly changed.
We three can say this toourselves, but it really struck
me that the pace of technicalchange and innovation has always
been at odds in in some mannerof speaking with the pace of
(07:26):
government, right?
So I've always, it has alwayshit me like a brick that we've
married government andtechnology to just tremendously
different things, just from apace and a deliberateness, and
how much more nimble, agile, andflexible we need to be.
So I think on the state side,the dauntingness of the pace
(07:49):
itself, and you still have totranslate it, right?
Even if the governmentstructures, the budgeting
process, the policymakingprocess, it is in essence very
much the same, you still have totraverse that.
You have to traverse and Ithink be a communicator between
those worlds, right?
(08:10):
Because you will get asked alot of those kinds of questions.
I think on the on the NASIOside, I I think about the
serving as president and beingon the executive committee for
many years, and now just thegrowth of that community, right?
Which is what you would expect.
States are going to be spendingmore on technology by
(08:33):
definition because there is justmore technology.
And so that community has grownso significantly.
And those are certainly two ofthe things that struck me and
continue to strike me as webuild the agenda here to move
the state forward.
Amy Glasscock (08:51):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true.
It it has grown a lot since youwere first involved with NASIO.
And I should say too that youare on the executive committee
again in this new iteration ofyour job.
So we really appreciate that.
And we were actually justsaying at our staff meeting
earlier today when I mentionedthat we were going to be
interviewing you, everyone wasjust kind of saying how much
they appreciate you andeverything that you do for NASIO
(09:14):
and all of your hard work andjust being a nice person as
well.
Thank you for that.
Okay, so tell us what is on theagenda for the next few years.
What are you most excited aboutand any big projects that you
have coming up?
Craig Orgeron (09:26):
Oh, sure.
So lots going on.
I think from a big pictureperspective, we embarked upon my
return of procurementmodernization.
It had been things we sort ofnibbled at, but we not only
created a procurementmodernization advisory committee
with our 30 largest agenciesand kicked off an engagement to
(09:47):
help us facilitate that.
We got some legislation passedlast year, House Bill 958, to
move us down that path.
In House Bill 1491 from the2025 session, we got a cloud
center of excellence put intostatute and have had a very good
year building momentum to makesome more aggressive assessments
(10:10):
and migrations to the cloud.
Also, in House Bill 1491, therewas a first ever innovation
fund for the state ofMississippi, which we had not
had before.
And this year we sought toreally seed that fund and focus
it on artificial intelligence,which we did.
We, from an artificialintelligence perspective, of
(10:34):
course, working with ourgovernor, Governor Reeves, the
governor signed Executive Order1584, which sort of pushed the
state forward in artificialintelligence.
We stood up an AI innovationhub that brings together
partners from across the state,universities, to really do that
part of government verydifferent, very much more
(10:56):
iterative, very flexible andagile to move that ball forward.
We, in addition, thelegislature last year passed
Senate Bill 2267, which directedus to study the feasibility of
a data exchange in the state.
And we have a long way to gofrom a data maturity perspective
(11:20):
and how we need to move theball forward.
In this year, we've also had afabulous legislative session and
very grateful.
So we have two net new topics.
One has already been passed,I'm very pleased to say, and
signed by the governor.
It's an optimization initiativethat really, for the first time
ever in a federated state,creates a framework for us to
(11:45):
really develop, and my dearfriend Eric Sweden would, I
think, be happy about this, abusiness and technical
architecture.
So the governor has signedthat.
We have another, that is SenateBill 2563.
Senate Bill 2564 from thissession, which is still quite at
the end of the process, it's init's in conference now, but it
(12:07):
will direct us to work in stategovernment to set up a
cybersecurity operations centerto kind of move forward in
maturing cybersecurity in thestate.
So it does seem to have wind inits sails that the legislature
wants to move forward on.
So across those two years,whether it's procurement
(12:29):
modernization, artificialintelligence, a much more
profound cloud migration from amodernization perspective,
looking at data.
So I'm very, very proud of thatagenda over the last two years.
So I think, Amy, we were ableto craft kind of a very
(12:51):
compelling set of initiatives,but I think you have to have a
lot of folks at the table.
There has to be your governor,has to be behind you.
You have to have legislativesponsors and leaders, right, who
want to sit down.
We've got two wonderfultechnology chairs in the House
and Senate where a lot of thesebills were debated and talked
(13:14):
through.
So it's really been an amazingcouple of years in terms of
seeing those initiatives reallyat the very beginning to take
off.
That said, there's always otherbig projects, right?
Whether it's going to be a DMVmodernization, which we were
talking at the capital of thissession about, other big
(13:35):
projects that are in flight,several other large
modernization efforts that aregoing to be sort of the state's
first cloud native solutions tomove forward on.
So no shortage of excitingthings to do.
We are a 27 state by way of ourgubernatorial elections.
(13:56):
So we're not in that big cohortthis coming November, but the
year after.
And so we are ramping up andthrough the end of Governor
Reeves' administration andclearly and I think
strategically thinking aboutthis time frame, but the end of
an administration and what thattransition would be in January
(14:19):
of 28 and how to position thestate and these initiatives with
the new governor.
Alex Whitaker (14:27):
Certainly a lot of new governors are going to be
coming in over the next year.
So I don't know if I envy DougRobinson and all the calls he's
going to be making.
I guess early next year.
Well, that's great.
So as as you and I have talkedabout, I can count myself lucky
to have been able to grow up alot of my childhood in
Mississippi.
Great state.
Um but knowing the state, Ialso know that there are some
challenges in reaching some ofthe underserved populations, are
(14:49):
there as there are in allstates, not unique to
Mississippi.
But would love to know how areyou all in Mississippi working
to make sure that everybody hasaccess to digital services so
that everybody who wants toaccess those great things the
state is offering can do so?
Craig Orgeron (15:02):
Yeah, that's a fabulous question.
I think there's a few thingsthat I came back to and have
worked to partner with andnurture in my couple of years
back.
But Alex, the way you frame itis so spot on.
We used to talk about thedigital divide being there, but
with things like artificialintelligence, these gaps in some
ways can grow where there's adisenfranchisement that can be
(15:27):
exceedingly expansive,especially something as
transformational as artificialintelligence.
There's a couple of things Iwas thinking about.
We have uh some initiatives inthe state that I've never quite
seen before.
One is the MississippiArtificial Intelligence Network.
We call it Maine.
It is run out of theMississippi Gulf Coast Community
(15:50):
College in partnership withMississippi State University.
And it's amazing.
Maine is a kind of a grassrootscollaborative, if you will,
consortium, maybe is a betterword, that's really focused on
access, skilling, training forthe future.
Its director is Dr.
(16:10):
Colin Napier.
And Colin and I have becomefriends, and what Maine is able
to do in the lens that I have asa state CIO is amazing because
they have this network that theyhave built, getting the word
out, helping people, really,like you were saying, Alex,
(16:33):
about getting folks the kind oftraining and the and the skills
they need.
We have a second one called theAI Collaborative.
In some ways, Maine's focus isuniversities, kind of community
colleges, although they'vegrown.
Our AI Collaborative is kind ofhas a deeper K-12 focus.
They're both havingconferences, putting on
(16:55):
workshops and training.
So those two are just have beenamazing.
We have a third one called theMississippi Cyber Initiative,
which is very similar, right?
So it's raising the bar oncyber education, bringing
parties together.
And so one of the comments thatI've made regularly is you, as
(17:20):
a state CIO, can burn a lot ofcalories, a lot of energy
bringing people together, right?
That can be some giant part ofthe job.
How do you bring peopletogether?
How do you build momentum?
And these consortiums havereally been amazing.
And I think that really toucheson kind of a key part of your
(17:43):
question of how do you raise thebar?
How do you ensure that thatthat rising tide helps everyone?
And and a shout out to thoseconsortiums in Mississippi
because I think they areamazing, and I think it kind of
shows the kind of grassrootsefforts that's happening in the
state around some of theseinnovative technologies.
Amy Glasscock (18:04):
A lot of good work happening in Mississippi
for sure.
Craig Orgeron (18:07):
Yeah, absolutely.
Amy Glasscock (18:08):
So, Craig, we've mentioned AI a couple times in
this conversation, but you can'tget out of this podcast without
us asking about it directly.
So we know from our survey dataand that pretty much all of the
states are using generative AInow.
So we'd love to hear a littlebit more about how Gen AI works
into your plans.
And then are there any thingsthat you're particularly excited
(18:29):
or worried about around AI ingeneral?
Craig Orgeron (18:33):
Great question.
So I mentioned in coming backin in 24, my first really my
first six weeks back, we wereable to draft, the team was able
to draft an executive order forthe governor to consider, which
he did and ended up signing.
The legislature in 2025 passedSenate Bill 2426, which was sort
(18:56):
of an AI, I say task force, Iknow, which is an overused term,
but it was really intended tobring people together in and
through calendar year 25, whichwe did to talk about regulatory
issues or challenges orpotential legislative issues or
challenges or things that weneeded to consider doing.
(19:20):
But a couple of the high pointsto me are our AI Innovation Hub
in partnership with Maine, thegroup I had mentioned and AWS,
to really try to get use caseswith agencies developed much
quicker in a much more agile waythan government has typically
(19:40):
worked here to move the ballforward.
So lots of excitement there.
I will say though that I thinka lot of the use cases are only
really just beginning tosomewhat morph away from kind of
what I kind of term theindividual contributor mindset
(20:00):
to something approaching atscale, approaching, impacting
how organizations work or howorganizations serve the citizens
of Mississippi.
So I think that is some of thecomponents which I think are
amazing.
The House, this session passedHouse Bill 1723 to define
(20:22):
artificial intelligence, andthat was sort of some of the
work coming out of thecommittee.
We put together kind of a bestof breed acceptable use policy
with guiding principles.
Some folks refer to them as AIBill of Rights.
So lots of good foundationalsort of framework things in the
last year to help us pivot towhat is next.
(20:47):
I will tell you, though, acouple of points.
So to me, when you think of AI,I tend to think of the
democratization of thetechnology, what's in everyone's
hands.
When it is, it helps augment.
It has an augmentative qualityof I'm faster, I'm better at the
things I'm doing.
One key component, of course,is data, and that I think about
(21:10):
a lot.
The bright shiny object, right,to quote Doug Robinson, it's
still a little distracting withAI.
I think there's got to be a lotof conversations about the
quality of the data from allvantage points.
I think viewing data as astrategic asset and having the
pieces and parts that you needare critically important.
(21:33):
A fourth element that I thinkwe see the glimmers of is this
idea of change fitness.
How well do you metabolizechange?
Inside of an organization, Ithink I have expectations that
this will dramatically alter howwe work.
There are prognostications of ahundred million robocolleagues
(21:56):
or a hundred million syntheticteam members.
Members that are going toreally alter the way that work
gets done.
And so I think the ability fororganizations to metabolize that
change and pivot is going to bewildly important.
And I think I would end with Istill think we don't need to be
scared about talking about bias,about transparency, about
(22:22):
accountability.
These technologies and thesemodels are just amazing what
they can do generative.
These generative, pre-trainedtransformers that are going to
be part of our world.
But I don't think we need toget overly enamored.
I still think that there is athoughtful policy about how
these tools are used, how theyimpact individuals, and then
(22:45):
specifically the explainabilityor transparency of these models.
I think that is a mildlyneglected or it became much more
of a back seat as in Novemberof 22 when this thing really
took off like a rocket ship.
And I think we need to keepthose appropriately in front of
us, right?
(23:05):
Not to dampen the concept ofinnovation, but to keep to keep
those other policy type thingsin front of us as well.
Amy Glasscock (23:13):
Yeah, I think that's right too.
All right.
Well, we have definitelycovered a lot of ground.
So anything in particular thatyou wanted to discuss that we
may have missed today?
Craig Orgeron (23:22):
I don't think so.
I think the last couple ofyears here in Mississippi have
been amazingly productive, and Icertainly look forward to at
least being at the beginning ofbeing able to see some of those
things come to fruition for ourstate.
Amy Glasscock (23:37):
Yeah, great.
Alex Whitaker (23:38):
Awesome.
Well, Craig, thanks so much forthat perspective.
Obviously, so many cool thingsgoing on in Mississippi.
So it's great to hear aboutthem.
But of course, before we letyou go, we can't let you leave
without a few questions and around that we call the lightning
round.
Craig Orgeron (23:53):
Are you ready?
Maybe, yes.
Alex Whitaker (23:56):
All right.
So spring is here, which meanssummer is right around the
corner.
Any fun vacation plans comingup in the next few months?
Craig Orgeron (24:02):
Well, one thing that the the Orgerons would be
doing is we're going to be doinga river cruise in Europe.
Oh.
First ever.
So hopefully we will get thereand get back with all the travel
things.
But yeah, that one's prettyexciting about that one.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Amy Glasscock (24:19):
That does sound fun.
I'd love to do that sometime.
All right.
Next question.
What would you recommend thatsomeone visiting Mississippi for
the first time see, do, eat,hear?
Whatever your recommendationis.
Craig Orgeron (24:31):
Oh, Gosh!
Amy Glasscock (24:32):
It doesn't have to be all of them.
Craig Orgeron (24:33):
I mean, we have a fabulous blues trail.
If the history of the blues isanything of interest, we have
two amazing new museums indowntown that I I highly, highly
recommend you visit.
And then, of course, it isMississippi, and so eat eating
is a hobby.
There is a lovely place that Ithink was just awarded a
(24:56):
Michelin star called Elvies in apart of town that's sort of
getting revived.
So I would highly recommendbrunch at Elvi's if you were
here and want somethingdelicious to eat.
Amy Glasscock (25:08):
Sounds fun.
All right.
And then last lightning roundquestion how excited are you for
the NASIO mid-year meeting inPhiladelphia next month?
Craig Orgeron (25:16):
I'm super excited.
That's the right answer.
I kind of miss National Harbor,to tell you the truth.
But look looking forward to I Ithink the thing I look forward
to is a version of this, likere-reconnecting with everyone.
And we will be taking our teamthere, and we'll look forward to
lots of great conversation.
Amy Glasscock (25:34):
Great.
Well, we look forward to seeingyou and your team and everybody
else in Philadelphia nextmonth.
So thanks again, Craig.
We really appreciate talking toyou and for you taking the time
out during a busy schedule totalk to us.
Craig Orgeron (25:46):
So you got it.
Amy Glasscock (25:47):
See you soon.
Thanks.
Alex Whitaker (25:48):
All right.
Craig Orgeron (25:48):
Bye, y'all.
Amy Glasscock (25:49):
Bye.
Alex Whitaker (25:49):
Thanks.
Thanks again for listening toNASIO Voices.
NASCIO Voices is a productionof the National Association of
State Chief InformationOfficers.
Learn more at NASIO.org.
Amy Glasscock (25:59):
We'll be back soon with more great state IT
content.
And don't forget to like andsubscribe wherever you listen to
podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Kingdom of Fraud
It’s the unlikeliest of criminal partnerships: a devout polygamist from an insular Utah sect joining forces with a shadowy Armenian tycoon from LA. The result - a billion dollar fraud conspiracy. In Kingdom of Fraud, investigative reporter Michele McPhee traces the origins of the extraordinary alliance between Jacob Kingston and Levon Termendzhyan. Together, the two men trigger the largest tax investigation in American history and weave around themselves a web of dirty cops, influential political relationships and transnational money laundering. All this is set against the backdrop of Jacob Kingston’s clan – The Order. A powerful and secretive polygamist organization in Salt Lake City. To whom Jacob is desperate to prove his worth. Kingdom of Fraud is produced by Novel for iHeart Podcasts. For more from Novel, visit https://novel.audio/. You can listen to new episodes of Kingdom of Fraud completely ad-free and 1 week early with an iHeart True Crime+ subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Open your Apple Podcasts app, search for “iHeart True Crime+, and subscribe today!