Feeding People with Kate Constantine

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
You know, I'm sure we'll get into some legislation
and policy, but even with schoollunches is a great example.
Right over the border, you canbe one school away in Maine and
have universal lunch andbreakfast for every child in the
state.
But if you happen to be born onetown away, then that's not
something that you get.

SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Wow.
Universal school lunches andbreakfasts in Maine.
Now, I don't want to say thatit's because they have legalized
marijuana, but I'm not going tonot say that it's possible that
the revenue that they get fromthat might help paying for these
programs.
It's a previous episode.

(00:46):
You're listening to NewHampshire has to choose, and I
am your host, Liz Canada.
It is Thanksgiving week, and oneway to be the most prepared you
can possibly be for this comingThursday as you sit around the
dinner table with people who youmight not often see is catch up
on any episodes you may havemissed.
Because who knows how many timespeople are going to ask, why is

(01:06):
housing so expensive?
Why are property taxes going up?
What the heck is a schoolvoucher?
Or, you know, want to talk aboutfood.
And this episode is all aboutfood.
I got to interview KateConstantine from Gather, and we
talked about food pantries andsnap benefits and farmers and
food waste and school meals.
And I cannot emphasize enoughhow important it is that

(01:29):
students eat at school and thatwe make it accessible for
students to eat.
But I will leave that wholeconversation to the two of us.
What I will say though is thereis a moment in the episode where
I literally cannot believe whatKate is telling me, and I
audibly say, hold on, rewindbecause I am so flabbergasted.
And what she's alluding to inthat moment was a debate that
happened with the state budgetthis past year.

(01:51):
And if you missed the episodeswith Phil Slotton from the New
Hampshire Fiscal PolicyInstitute, I had two episodes
with him.
I would strongly encourage goingback and listening to those two.
Because what our state lawmakersprioritize in terms of how to
spend money impacts so manypeople in our state.
Literally impacts everybody inour state, actually.

(02:12):
But it is so clear what is atstake.
If you would like to support theshow, please visit patreon.com
slash nh has issues.
If you have an idea for anepisode, send me an email.
Newhampshire has issues atgmail.com.
And of course, always sharethese episodes with people who
might be interested, uhespecially if you might be
having dinner with them onThursday.
And you want them to do theirhomework too.

(02:33):
All right, I'm gonna pass itback over to me.
Welcome to New Hampshire HasIssues.
The podcast that dares to ask,how important really is food?
Do people really need food?
Yeah.
That's my that's my uh taglineof the day.
Uh Kate, do you have one readyfor today's episode?

SPEAKER_00 (02:55):
One day maybe we'll evolve to the point in which we
don't need healthy food in ourbodies in order to survive.
But until that day comes, whydon't we feed people?

SPEAKER_01 (03:05):
Why don't we feed people?
All right.
I am your host, Liz Canada, andjoining me today is the events
and engagement manager atGather, Kate Constantine.
I know it is a very busy time ofyear for your organization.
So thank you so much forspending some time chatting.

SPEAKER_00 (03:22):
Thanks, Liz.
I'm excited to finally talk withyou.
It's a nice break to have afterhauling hundreds of turkeys into
a walk-in freezer over the pastcouple days, which is what we
were doing.
We have a we have an incredibleoperations team.
We really try to be very bootson the ground.
And a lot of times that means,you know, in order to make sure
the peep food goes out topeople, it is the business of a
lot of the times making surethat food goes into a place,

(03:44):
which for us means our walk-infridges and freezers.
And this time of year, it meanscalling 15, 20 pound turkeys,
which are fantastic, and we'relucky to be able to have them,
but they need to go somewhere.
So the work that goes into afood access organization is just
as much a process of operationsand logistics as any other

(04:06):
organization.
And uh, I'm very lucky that Iget to work with a crew that
love strapping on their bootsand and lifting heavy stuff and
moving, we move thousands ofpounds a day.

SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
Wow.
That's incredible.
I was just at a bakery uhyesterday, actually.
Took our younger kiddo.
We went in and he's like, Can Iget a super extra large hot
chocolate?
I was like, sure.
He's like, Can I get a triplechocolate brownie?
I was like, sure.
And there was a flyer with QRcodes for Gather to donate to
Gather.
And I was like, I'm interviewingher tomorrow.

(04:38):
This is so great.
That's right here.
So which bakery?
Let's give him a shout out.
So it was Ginger Fox Bakery, andI had never been in there.
My God, incredible place.
But yeah, it was so great to beable to get some treats, do a
little donation right there.
But Kate, maybe you can startwith telling me what does Gather
do?
What does your organization do?

SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
Yeah.
So Gather, we were actuallyfounded in 1816.
We're one of the oldest socialservice agencies in the nation.
1816?
Yep.
1816.
1816.
Yep.
Wow.
Gather has been around in asimilar capacity since then.
We were founded by women atStrawberry Bank who are feeding

(05:20):
families of fishermen while theyare away at sea, you know.
Wow.
Coming from Portsmouth.
We've always been in Portsmouth.
I think a lot of people nowthat, you know, we can get into
the, you know, the assumptionsthat come into being based in a
town that's now very affluent,but a lot of a lot of people
forget that Portsmouth reallystarted off a very poor working

(05:41):
class town, being one of thelargest ports in America,
especially in the post-colonialera.
A lot of small working families.
And so our organization hasstarted really at the grassroots
level by groups of communitymembers that started small
pantries and meal programs andwanted to make sure that their
neighbors were fed when theydidn't have the workforce in

(06:02):
town being able to come back andprovide for them.
And, you know, we've kind ofexisted in that type of capacity
for centuries now.
A lot of people probablyremember us as the Seacoast
Family Food Pantry.
For years, we were based out ofPortsmouth City Hall, just a
small mom and pop food pantry.
And in 2016, we moved to WestRoad in Portsmouth and became a

(06:23):
larger scale pantry warehouse.
And around 2019-2020, when westarted our Meals for Kids
program, distributing food tokiddos when they were out of
school, we started a mobilemarket program and said, hey,
can how can we move this missionand bring it to folks across the

(06:44):
Seacoast and address sometransportation issues?
So now we're on uh Heritage Avein Portsmouth.
We have a 16,000, excuse me,18,000 square foot community
food center where we're able toprovide our pantry market as we
always have, a welcoming,dignified shopping, grocery
store-style shopping experiencefor folks.

(07:05):
And we're also able to offer,we're hoping to do some more
programming soon.
We have a large-scale warehousewhere we pack up trucks for our
mobile market programs.
And then we also have a kitchenwhere we're able to repurpose
food we cannot use and turn todelicious prepared meals.
So the mission still remains thesame of being able to provide
food for families in need in avery welcoming and dignified

(07:29):
way.
We always say that we're alow-barrier, high dignity choice
model.
So we want to make it easy foranyone who needs food to be able
to access our services.
If you live or work in NewHampshire or Maine, you are
eligible to come and receive ourservices.
And we also want to make surethat when people come through,
that we're treating with themwith respect and that the food

(07:50):
that we're able to provide themis dignified.
We also always emphasize choicebecause we want to provide
healthy food, but we also wantto make sure that, you know,
there's no shame or stigma.
And whatever you know that isgoing to be good for you and
your family and keep you fed iswhat we want to make sure that

(08:10):
you're able to have.
And also recognizing that, youknow, you don't have to have a
certain amount of money to havedietary restrictions, to have
needs and opinions and what youwant.
So we really try to provide asmuch as we can for folks and in
a very nice setting.
We really appreciate and valuethe relationships that our

(08:32):
volunteers and staff have withour members.
We call anyone that comestogether a member, but I know
that that word sometimes peoplethink, oh, is like is it like a
secret club I have to beeligible?
And like, no, we're you're amember.

SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
Secret club is in you live or work in New
Hampshire.
Yeah.
Not that secret of a club.
So you keep using the worddignity and dignified.
Can you like just tell me moreabout like where that comes from
and why that specific word, whythat's maybe a priority for
Gather?

SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
We recognize that a lot of people, it takes a lot
for them to even just comethrough our doors.
So when they do get to the stepwhere they recognize, okay, this
may be something that I need inorder to be able to pay the
bills, to be able to put food onthe table for my family, to make
ends meet.
We don't want to furtherstigmatize folks and keep them

(09:25):
from wanting to come through ourdoors again because what we're
providing them is not, you know,is not dignified or not
respectful.
So when they come in, we want tomake it really seem like it's
not, oh, I'm at I'm at a foodpantry.
It's everyone's looking at me.
It's very sterile environment.
And I think especially in NewHampshire, we have this very

(09:46):
rugged individualisticmentality.

SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
Boy, oh boy, do we.

SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
Oh boy, do we.
And I think the last peop thingthat people want to feel when
they come through our door is,oh, I'm getting a handout here.
It's not a handout.
It's it's a hand-in, as we liketo say.
This is a place that ourcommunity can come together from
all walks of life, whether it bepeople that don't need our
services or volunteers orcommunity partners that are
coming to provide food.

(10:12):
It's somewhere that people cancome in and breathe a sigh of
relief because ultimately whenyou're accessing food services,
that's what it should be, is youknow that you don't have to
worry about being able to eatand being able to nourish your
body that week because you havefood available to you.
So that's why that's why dignityis really important to us.

(10:32):
And I love, I love the way thatour market is set up.
I think a lot of people may besurprised at the amount of young
people like my age, you know,people in their early to mid-20s
trying to make a living on theseacoast that come through our
doors and a lot of young parentsas well.
And I think it's really nice forthem to come in and feel like,
okay, when I'm coming in with mykid, they just think that

(10:55):
they're at the grocery store.
They don't even realize thatthey're, you know, coming and
seeking a food pantry.

SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
Yeah, maybe you could talk a bit about that
because I would imagine thatthere might be a listener who
may not have any experience likeseeing a food pantry or what one
might look like or what it mightbe like to visit one or need
one.
So maybe you could like do likean audio walkthrough for us.
What would it be like to gotogether and and go through the

(11:23):
experience of getting some food?

SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
People come in, they sign in.
If they're not signed up, thenwe'll welcome them, we'll give
them a registration form.
They can sign up really quickly.
Once you sign up, once youregister, you can start shopping
that day.
And we see a lot of people thatwe say live or work in New
Hampshire or Maine.
So we see a lot of people that,you know, maybe they technically
live in Amesbury, but they workin Portsmouth or Hampton.

(11:47):
Um, so we just need them to showthat they have a, you know, pay
stub or something that provesthat they live or work in New
Hampshire.
And they can come in, let usknow how many people are in
their family, and once they'resigned up, we'll have one of our
volunteers at the front deskgreet them, give them a shopping
cart, and they start walkingthrough.

(12:07):
And we really set the pantry uplike it's a grocery store.
So there's aisles of dry goods,personal care, even pet food we
always have to offer.
We don't want anyone to have togive up their pet because they
can't afford to feed them.
And the thing that we reallywant to dry people's eye to is
we have several fridges filledwith uh fresh produce.

(12:30):
That's what we're really tryingto emphasize and what we're most
proud of.
So they come along with theirshopping cart.
We have volunteers that showthem how to go through.
We also have a freezer area withproteins.
We let them know if they haveany restrictions, like if they
prefer plant-based items or umlamb or anything like that,
gluten-free items that can beavailable to them.

(12:53):
But we really want them to shopthrough and pick out what they
need.

SPEAKER_01 (12:57):
So it is very much like a what I might experience
when I go to a grocery store.
Like I'm going in, I'm shopping,I've got my shopping cart, I'm
getting my things.
What is the expectation ofsomeone who's there?
So they register to be a memberof Gather.
And then what does that looklike after they are done

(13:17):
shopping for their food?

SPEAKER_00 (13:19):
You know, we'll encourage folks.
A lot of people don't know thatin addition to our pantry, we
also have the mobile markets.
So we usually will give them, wehave a calendar of all of our
markets, schedules, even otherprogramming that we're doing.
And we try to encourage people,okay.
All right, you live in Dover.
We do a couple markets in Dover.
And then just try to kind of,you know, let people go and see

(13:41):
what they need because we seepeople that come in that month,
maybe in the month that theyneed us, and we don't see them
for a few months, and then thenext month they come back.
I often hear from members, youknow, they'll come in, they'll
sign in, they'll say, Oh, Ihaven't been here in a while.
And we say, That's okay.
That's that's why we're here.
You don't need to prove to uswhy you need to come back or
prove to us why you have to keepcoming back.

(14:03):
So I think the kind ofexpectation really is just that
people come when they need itbecause we we don't want people
to be late on paying their rentbecause we don't want people to
become unhoused.
Because once you becomeunhoused, it's really hard to
get back into stable housing.
Yeah.
We don't want people to becomeunbanked because they've had to
take out too many loans orthey've had to become overdrawn

(14:23):
in their accounts because it'svery hard to be rebanked.
Um, so we want to always bethere for folks and have them
recognize that this is anoption.
The thing that I hear a lot fromsome of our members is, well, I
don't need it as much as otherpeople.
You know, we have we have folksthat are chronically food
insecure, um, folks withdisabilities, folks that are in

(14:45):
house, a lot of seniors arechronically food insecure.
But they're not the only onesthat need help because
especially right now, it's hardfor someone that makes on paper
a good living to be able toafford groceries.

SPEAKER_01 (14:58):
I want to get to that because that's such a huge
thing right now.
But maybe you can define likewhat does chronically food
insecure mean?

SPEAKER_00 (15:06):
Aaron Powell The chronically food insecure is,
you know, a term that's used forpeople that don't have a
consistent source of income orfor whatever reasons and
whatever circumstances, they arealways needing assistance with
food or housing.
And they may never get out ofthat cycle.
And that's true for a lot of alot of seniors, which is I think

(15:28):
people would be surprised theamount of seniors that we see.
Because once you have to retireand you're only living on your
social security, which thesedays is not a lot, social
security and Medicaid, then youdon't have anything else in your
income.
You don't have any flexiblespending.
So you are from month to monthrelying on a tiny paycheck, and

(15:51):
that doesn't leave a lot of roomfor food.
Maybe that leaves room for yourhousing costs or your heating
costs, but it doesn't leave alot for anything else.
Same thing with our unhousedwhen you barely have the income
to be able to get stablehousing, or even, you know, if
you're living outside and youwant to make sure that you're

(16:12):
spending the income that you dohave to be able to have stable
shelter, to be able to make surethat you have a good tent or
sleeping bag or fuel, anythinglike that.
Um, you don't have a lot offlexible spending for food.
And a lot of people that we seethat aren't chronically food
insecure, yeah, it may be, itmay be something like, okay, the

(16:32):
next time I really have to go infor a fix on my car, I may not
have a lot left in the bank forgroceries.

SPEAKER_01 (16:40):
It is so interesting to hear about buying food as
like flexible spending, as like,oh, I'll I'll have like the
flexibility to buy food.
Like that's what we're reallytalking about here with like
those who are food insecure,like buying groceries and food
as being flexible.
It's just like part of part ofmy everyday routine.

(17:03):
I just go and I get a coffee orI go and I get my breakfast.
It's not like that foreverybody, very much so.

SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
And a lot of people that say, oh, well, I've always
I've always budgeted my wholelife and I never have to, you
know, that's a part of myessential spending.
Why would I ever have to thinkabout that?
But a lot of people never haveto think about that.
So you think that, you know,just by budgeting or being fine
fiscally responsible, that thatmakes you, you know, that makes
you immune from needing that.

(17:29):
But it's it's not the case, it'snot the case for everyone.
And then there are some thingsthat become more essential than
food.
You know, if you're a parent andyou have to worry about formula,
it's dangerous for you to haveto cut on formula diapers for
your child.
So sometimes food does become,you know, flexible spending, or
if I have the money this month.

(17:51):
Or a lot of people don'trecognize, okay, you may
technically have money for foodthat, but that food might might
not be the food that you need tobe able to sustain a healthy
life.
And that's where the question offood insecurity really comes
into play.
And I think something that wetry to emphasize to gather is is
okay, people may technicallyhave the money to buy food, but

(18:13):
food that is not going to keepthem healthy or sustained.
We want to make sure that peoplehave the kinds of food that are
gonna set them up to have abetter life because as soon as
you're not putting the goodfoods into your body, then you
may need to be at the doctormore.
And if you already don't haveflexible money with your health
insurance, you don't have themoney to spend on large co-pays,

(18:37):
then you're setting yourself upfor a life of medical bills.
And it's really, it's all it'sall connected.

SPEAKER_01 (18:43):
It is all connected.
You said much earlier how somany seniors are finding
themselves in a position ofbeing food insecure or having
like very limited amount ofmoney to be able to pay for
food.
And on a previous episode, I hadErica and Lauren on from
Families in Transition, and theyshared with me, and this was a

(19:04):
shocking figure that they saidto me, the largest growth in
terms of homelessness in NewHampshire are seniors.
Like it's those are the folkswho are becoming unhoused.
That was very surprising for meto hear because it's like you
don't assume that that's howfolks are spending their later
years, but the costs ofeverything right now are very

(19:26):
significant.
So let me just take a step back,Kate, and ask you, because I'd
like to start episodes.
I know we're like deep into theepisode now, but I'd like to
have like a simple question,which is in this case, okay,
it's the seacoast in NewHampshire.
How big of an issue really isthis?
Like, come on, Kate.
Yeah.
I say sarcastically, but likehow big of an issue really is
this in New Hampshire?

SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
You have no idea how often I have to answer that
question.

SPEAKER_01 (19:50):
Probably not from a sarcastic sort of perspective.

SPEAKER_00 (19:54):
No, from a genuine perspective.
And it's it's not always andit's not, and it's not a lot of
times it's I don't even want tosay it's coming from a place of
ignorance.
It's it's the assumption that wehave living in this area.

SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
Yeah.
And what we see and don't see,right?
Like I think there's a lot ofwhat we're able to see on our
day-to-day and who we interactwith regularly may not match the
people who actually live in ourcommunities overall.
So you have to answer thisquestion a lot.
I'm sorry, Kate.
No, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
That's a good that's a good tee-off, actually.
And I think my kind of immediateresponse when I hear that is,
well, when's the last time youdrove up and down Route One?
Because, you know, you can see alot of people who are unhoused
walking up and down the street.
However, that's not the main,that's not the main issue.
Sometimes the same people thatsay to me, Well, is food
insecurity really a problem onthe seacoast, are also asking me

(20:44):
how I afford to live inPortsmouth because they know
that the rents are really highand they know that I'm in my
early 20s and I work for anonprofit.
And I say, Well, therein liesyour, therein lies your answer.
People can't afford to livehere.
And for a lot of, let's let'ssay, let's use seniors again as
an example.
If you've been if you've livedin the Seacoast for many years
of your life, you may be gettingpriced out of your apartment you

(21:06):
lived in forever or your house.
You can't continue to afford topay the rates because they're
skyrocketing.
And the waiting lists for thesehousing authorities are
astronomical.
And we work with we work withports of housing a lot.
They're doing fantastic work,but you know, they will admit to
you that it's it's hard beingable to pass the zoning permits

(21:27):
to build more affordablehousing.
And a lot of people that couldbenefit from affordable housing
on paper make too much money.
And that's a big problem we'reseeing right now is the people
that are falling through themiddle, that the benefits that
people could receive.
A lot of people, we have anissue right now where a lot of
people aren't signing up forSNAP, for instance, because it's

(21:49):
a very complicated process orthey don't know how to sign up
because they don't make it supersimple.
But a lot of people don't signup for SNAP because they know
that they make too much money,because the maximum income
required for SNAP benefitshasn't changed since 2021.

SPEAKER_01 (22:05):
It's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (22:07):
So, you know, we see a lot of people that are making
traditionally, you know, goodupper to middle class on paper
jobs that it's not cutting itanymore.
And in an area where cost ofliving is very expensive, it's
easy to imagine how a fewchanges in life circumstances

(22:27):
could you leave you lead you toneeding to walk through our
doors.

SPEAKER_01 (22:31):
Even if you've budgeted diligently your whole
life, like one healthcaresituation can set you back.
How many folks are impacted,Kate?

SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
We serve over 10,000 individuals a month.
A month?
A month between our pantry andour mobile markets.
And that's we serve people fromall up and down Maine, New
Hampshire.
And I think a lot of peoplewould be surprised the people
that we see from, you know,northern New Hampshire, because
when you get to less denselypopulated areas, there's not as

(23:02):
many services.
We're very lucky we are thelargest agency of the New
Hampshire Food Bank.
The New Hampshire Food Bank whooversees all of the food access
organizations in the state.
We are their largest agencies,and we're very lucky and
grateful to do that.
But even knowing how many peoplewe are able to serve, there's so
many people that we're notcapturing.
Because again, a lot of peoplethat could benefit from us we

(23:25):
know won't come.
Whether they're just don't knowwhere to go, how to access it.
Uh, we try as much as possibleto make information easy to
access.
I know a lot of organizationsright now are working on
creating more comprehensive waysto find food resources.
Myself and Marie Collins fromCultivate, which is uh PharmaCue

(23:47):
and New England BIPOCFS recentlymade a food access resource PDF
that folks can download.
Um, but that's only but we wereonly really, really able to
capture, you know, hours andtimes for organizations in York
County, Rockingham, andStratford County.
If you're from a more rural areawhere there's not that many
comprehensive resources, it'skind of hard to find.

(24:09):
And then there's also folks thatjust don't want to come access
our services out of fear,whether that's fear of their
immigration status being exposedor fear of anyone in their life,
their family seeing them at afood pantry.
That's also part of the reasonwe changed our name from the
Seekers Family Food Pantry toGather, because we started our

(24:30):
mobile market program.
We didn't want anyone to notcome to our markets that needed
it because they didn't wantsomeone in their life to see
them in front of a truck thatsays food pantry.
Gather is a lot more of a, a lotmore of an approachable title.
People don't necessarily know.
We really wanted to break downthe stigma and make it more of a

(24:51):
community resource and helppeople to be able to understand
that they haven't failed.
I think it's it's a New Englandmentality, it's an American
mentality.
Okay, if you haven't, if youhaven't provided for your
family, then you've failed as Ifailed as a parent, I failed as
an American, you know, I failedas a human being because I
because what?
Because expenses are too much,because you got laid off,

(25:15):
because your income doesn't cutthe way it used to because a car
broke down?

SPEAKER_01 (25:20):
There's so much shame and stigma in all of this.
I don't know how one would evencomprehensively dismantle that.
Like that would be such a hardthing to get to the bottom of.
And maybe it also involves me,host of the show, listener of
the show, of like, how are wecontributing to that shame and

(25:40):
stigma?
Like, what do I do, or how do Ibehave in this world, or what do
I think about?
Like, how do we sort of unpackthat and and attack that
individually too?

SPEAKER_00 (25:50):
I've worked in food access for almost six years now,
and I still don't have theanswer to that question.
It's K.

SPEAKER_01 (25:56):
I I was hoping you'd solve the problem for it.

SPEAKER_00 (25:59):
I know.
I'm working on it.
No.
You're working on it.
I I thought I had seeneverything, and you think that
food is kind of an apoliticalissue until uh you have a
federal It's food.

SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (26:12):
It's food.
Uh people need to eat, but untilyou have a federal snap cut and
then you see the ways in whichpeople are reacting to it online
and saying, you know, well,people that have EBT cards are
are buying things that theyshouldn't, and kind of policing
what people do with, you know,how people feed their families.

(26:32):
It's incredibly frustrating.
And you think you've seen itall.

SPEAKER_01 (26:36):
I cannot wrap my head around anyone trying to
tell someone who someone who isaccessing food via SNAP
benefits.
Like it means that they have aparticular income, an amount of
money coming in that is farlower than many people to
criticize how they use thatlittle amount of money that they
are receiving to be able to getfood.

(26:58):
It is such a situation ofpunching down on people in such
a significant way.
And I do not understand why weare doing this to people.
Why would anyone want to do thatto someone?
I I don't I don't understand it,Kate.
Explain to me, why are peoplelike this?

SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Why are people I let me break down why are people
psychologically no?
I think in my in my opinion, andthis is coming from my personal
opinion, yeah.
You know, there's no there's nobacking to prove this, but I
think that we are a veryegotistical culture.
And I think that our I thinkthat's actually a scientific
fact.
I think that's a scientificfact.

(27:31):
Um but I think that our a lot ofpeople feel better knowing that
we're all vulnerable as humanbeings and as citizens.
Any of us could facecircumstances that lead us to
needing these services anytime.
But I think that for somepeople, knowing that they have
that vulnerability for them toknock people down and criticize

(27:52):
other people makes them think,okay, well, I'm di I'm different
from those people.
I'm okay.
I make the right choices.
Right.
I budget, I do, you know, I'mdoing the right things.
But then it increasingly adds tothe stigma because then if you
do get to the point where you,even if you're not doing the
right things or you do the wrongthing, whatever it, whatever it
is, I don't care that needs youto come to the point.

(28:14):
I don't care what you do to needfood.
Right.
Right.
And I know that that's a hottake for some people.

SPEAKER_01 (28:21):
I don't care.
I want people if you need food,you should get food.

SPEAKER_00 (28:25):
I don't care.
I want people to be able tosurvive.
And I know that some people maydisagree with that.

SPEAKER_01 (28:29):
Wow.
Controversy.

SPEAKER_00 (28:30):
I think it it increase the it increases that
stigma, right?
Because if you've lived yourwhole life with the mentality
of, well, I'm different becauseI don't need that, and then you
get to the point where you doneed that, then you don't want
to admit it.

SPEAKER_01 (28:42):
Right.
Your sense of identity too.
Yeah, like your self-identity oflike, that was my worth.
This is what I believed aboutmyself.
And it's like, it doesn't haveto be like this, everyone.
Right.
Sometimes things happen and youneed food, and like you should
just get food.
Yes.
That's the that's that's thetweet.
That's it.

SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
Yeah.
It's just interesting the waysin which we spend so much of our
time and energy focusing on theindividuals as opposed to
focusing on the collective andreally coming together and
saying, you know, what can we doto help?
Because I don't necessarily needto know what your background is
that led you to come through ourdoors.
But I would like to know you asa person, not your

(29:20):
circumstances.
I want to know you as a person.
I want to know your family.
You know, we have people thatcome in that they've had a new
baby or they've had a newaddition to the family.
Like we want to get to knowpeople as people and not as and
not as products of theircircumstances.

SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
Yeah.
We Kate, we have some lawmakerswho are maybe trying to limit
how folks use their SNAPbenefits.
That's like one type oflegislation that's coming up in
2026.
But I'm sure that in your workyou've seen uh other types.

SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Our partnerships with local farms and gardens.
Again, it goes back to not onlythe idea of choice and the idea
of healthy food, as opposed tojust, you know, giving out food
for the sake of giving out food.
We want to make sure that thefood that people are able to
access is the types of food thatare the best and most nutritious
and going to set them up for thebest type of life that they can

(30:22):
have.
And we are very lucky in NewHampshire, especially on the
seacoast of New Hampshire.
We have so many incredible farmsand gardens at our disposal, a
lot of whom are very expensive.
We have a lot of farms that wepartner with that we have our
gardening manager, Allie.
I'll give her a shout out.

(30:42):
She's incredible.
Shout out, Allie.
She came from Heron Pond Farmand Three Rivers Farm Alliance
and had these relationships andwas really able to go out and
say, okay, we're gonna have aplot at X Farm that I go into
once a week and grow and pullfrom, and we can put that food
in the pantry.
Or these farms that even say,okay, we have an overabundant

(31:04):
crop of tomatoes that we weren'texpecting.
We can't sell all of it.
Let's give some together.
Or we have potatoes that havebeen sitting in the ground for
too long, let's pull those andgive them to gather.
A lot of times this is foodthat, you know, not everyone can
afford to shop local and shoporganic.
And most people have to gettheir produce from places, you
know, that aren't as aren't asfresh or that are imported from

(31:26):
other parts of the country.
Um, and we also want to supportlocal agriculture.
So by us pulling excess producefrom farms, that keeps them from
being stressed and overwhelmed,needing to sell items.
We also utilize a lot of ourbudget to purchase CSAs every
season so we can put that moneyback into local agriculture.
A big pillar at gather is foodwaste as well.

(31:49):
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
Whenever I bring it up withpeople, people say, I get so
frustrated at the amount of foodthat goes to waste.
You know, and they may realizethat a lot of food goes to waste
in this country.
It's 45% of food produced andmanufactured in the United
States winds up going to waste.
And a lot of it is food thatjust with the general nature of

(32:12):
manufacturing and streams fromdifferent wholesalers, other
companies, that there's a lot ofmisordering, mispicks.
We see often food manufacturersand wholesalers that we work
with that the customer ordered adiff a different cut of beef or
something, and they have toreject the entire order.

(32:34):
And so that also puts it on thepart of the truck driver to
either find a place to donate itto or to just find a place to
throw it out.

SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
Oh my God.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:45):
A lot of food waste from the not only retail and
manufacturing, but fromrestaurants.
We are very lucky in theSeacoast.
Portsmouth has the highestrestaurants per capita of any
city in America outside of NewYork City.
There are more seats inrestaurants in Portsmouth than
there are residents ofPortsmouth.

SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 (33:04):
Holy smokes.
You can imagine that that wouldproduce a lot of food waste.
So we partner with a lot ofrestaurants, caterers,
wholesalers to try to recoverfood that they would otherwise
have to waste.
So that may be a restaurant hasa menu change, they're going
from their summer menu to theirwinter menu, and they have all
the ingredients, they'reperfectly fine, but they're not

(33:26):
going to use them in theircooking.
So we are lucky where we have afull-scale production kitchen
where if everything's beenstored at temp safely, we can
repurpose it into meals.
And we make pre-made meals thatpeople can pick up every single
day and take with them, try tomake them nutritious, always
have a starch and a veggie, andset them up like restaurant

(33:50):
style.
But when you think about thosestatistics, about the amount of
food that goes to waste in thiscountry, and then you think
about the in the state of NewHampshire, the one in five
children that are food insecure.
And you think, why can't we takeall of that perfectly good food
and put it onto plates offamilies in need?
Yeah.
Right.
That's what Gather and a lot ofother wonderful organizations

(34:12):
are trying to do and trying tobridge those gaps.
The New Hampshire Food Bank alsooversees their rescue recovery
initiatives.
So us and other agencies in theNew Hampshire Food Bank will go
to stores in the morning likeHannaford, Whole Foods, Trader
Joe's, and recover food thatthey can't keep on the shelves,
but it's still perfectly fine toeat.

(34:33):
I think cheese is a greatexample.
Like cheese and dairy productsthat we know last far longer
than the expiration date, but alot of times they have to toss
them like weeks before the datebecause they just have new
product coming in.
Because we just purchase andpurchase and purchase.
It's it's really an issue.

SPEAKER_01 (34:49):
Name of the show, all the issues.
How many people need food andhow much food is being wasted on
any given day?
And how our lawmakers, how dothey prioritize what power that
they have, the power and abilitythat they have to make things
better for people?

SPEAKER_00 (35:09):
Recently, the New Hampshire legislation was
restricting people's ability topurchase food from farmers
market with their EBT benefits.
So SecoSeat Local and othersimilar organizations across the
state who run local farmersmarkets were making it so that
individuals could use their EBTsnap card and purchase from

(35:33):
purchase from their localfarmers market with that.
Um I don't know what the statusof it right now.

SPEAKER_01 (35:40):
Wait, rewind.
You're telling me.
Wait, I have to make sure that Iunderstood what you just said.
You're telling me the farmersmarkets have sort of prioritized
that folks are able to use theirSNAP benefits to buy things at
the farmers markets.
That makes sense to me, I'mfollowing.
But that our state lawmakers arerestricting that ability to do

(36:02):
that.

SPEAKER_00 (36:03):
It was in flux at the state legislature if people
were able to do that, which isdetrimental to local ag because
a lot of people can't afford toshop at the farmer's market once
a week because it's incrediblyexpensive.
But also it's detrimental tofamilies who would love to be
able to purchase this freshlocal produce, but can't because
they have limited amount ofspending on food.

SPEAKER_01 (36:26):
I like literally can't why why would they do
that?
Like that doesn't make anysense.
Why would they not if anything?
Now call me uh a radical, Iguess.
But if anything, it feels likethey should be incentivizing
them to support local farms andcommunities.
What you would think you wouldthink.
What's that?
Get bananas out there.

(36:47):
Literally, they won't getbananas out there.
Can I buy them?
Why?

SPEAKER_00 (36:51):
It's a similar cut at the federal level as well.
The there's a program that pairslocal schools with local farmers
from the USDA to be able to giveschools the purchasing power to
purchase produce from theirlocal farmers and put it on the
plates of school children inneed.
That money was cut completelyearlier this year.

(37:13):
And with the kind of mentalityof, well, do we need to be
spending these federal dollarson food that we don't
technically need?
It's more of a luxury as opposedto an essential.

SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
I feel like I'm in the bizarro world.

SPEAKER_00 (37:26):
What is I know this is what this is the bad place?
This is the bad place.
And knowing and knowing so manypeople that are trying to make
it as farmers for a lot of localfarms, the only funding that
they were getting from theirfederal or state government was
from these types of programs.
And so that being cut makes itso that they need to really amp

(37:48):
up their sales in their farmstores or their CSA shares.
Kate, this is a mess.
This is very upsetting.

SPEAKER_01 (37:54):
I am very upset by this.

SPEAKER_00 (37:56):
And we haven't even gotten to school meals yet.

SPEAKER_01 (37:58):
Oh my God.
Let's all right, let's go there.
Let's go to school meals becauseI've talked about this on a few
episodes.
A policy that has been proventime and time again to be
extremely effective for studentsis to feed them, to make sure
that they are fed, to give themfree access to school lunch and

(38:21):
school breakfast.
Like that is just if you dothat, students are better off.
So, Kate, how is New Hampshiredoing when it comes to feeding
the kids?

SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Well, New Hampshire, we're smack dab in the middle of
Vermont, Maine, andMassachusetts, which all have
universal school lunch andbreakfast.
Kate, they all do?
All of them?
They all do.

SPEAKER_01 (38:46):
They're saying they want to feed the kids in the
other states.
They are feeding the kids in theother states.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (38:50):
There have been several bills in the past few
legislative periods to try tonot even to make it so that New
Hampshire has universal schoollunch and breakfast, but to make
it so that students can havebreakfast after the bell.
And the importance of thebreakfast after the bell program
is that students who are notable to get to school on time
can still have access tobreakfast.

(39:13):
Breakfast is the most importantmeal of the day.
I say that.
I often skip breakfast, but I'man adult woman and I can make my
own decisions.
I'm sorry.
That's true.
But still, breakfasts.
But I am not an adolescentgrowing child who needs to focus
in school.
And has to take an algebra test.
And has to take an algebra test.
But the other important thingabout the breakfast after the

(39:34):
bell is that a lot of kids areafraid to go to school early to
get breakfast because in NewHampshire, breakfast isn't
universal.
So if you're one of the kidsthat goes to the cafeteria to
get your free breakfast, you'reeasily identified as a one-I'm
one of the poor kids.
So having breakfast after thebell, if kids can just go and

(39:55):
get a quick grab and gobreakfast that they can eat, it
reduces that stigma and it makessure make sure that they're able
to start off the day right.
In addition to lunch, which, youknow, I don't think any child
should have to go without lunch.
And if you're already in ahousehold that struggles to be
able to afford food, sometimesyou don't even know if you're

(40:17):
going to be able to have dinneron the table.
So why wouldn't your school beable to provide you with lunch?

SPEAKER_01 (40:22):
The stigma of picking up breakfast being
identified as like, oh, ifyou're getting breakfast, then
like you're one of those kids.
Like that is such a real thingthat happens, especially for
preteens and teens.
Like that is so challengingalready.
Again, shame and stigma is soreal.

(40:43):
And now we're putting that onchildren having to address that.

SPEAKER_00 (40:47):
We see so through our Meals for Kids program,
which is where we provide theingredients for meals during
school breaks.
So during summer break, winterbreak, spring break, we see a
lot of kids that kind of are theproviders for their family.

SPEAKER_01 (41:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
We go to some places in which we strategically have
the market so that it is thereright after the kids get off the
bus, they go and do theirshopping and go back inside.
And sometimes there might not bea parent home because if you're
like me and you grew up withparents that work in the service
industry and they work nights.
And so by the time they're home,you may already be in bed or

(41:25):
your parents are alreadystressed out because if you're
already in an environment thatis economically stressful, that
may mean that your environmentis already stressful.
Not always necessarily the case,but it does make it harder than
if you're with a parent thatworks from home or has a
flexible schedule and is able tobe more present, then yeah, it's
easy for it's easier for you tobe able to fill out those forms.

(41:47):
We see a lot of kids that, youknow, once you have to take on
that responsibility, you know,maybe you're maybe your
biological parent is not yourmain uh guardian.
Maybe you're raised by yourgrandparents or an older
sibling.
Yeah, there's so many fac thereare so many factors where those
things can fall through thecracks because you have other
things to worry about and you'rejust a kid.
That also puts a strain onnonprofits to pick up the slack.

SPEAKER_01 (42:11):
The pressure on nonprofits is so real because if
this was covered by the federalgovernment, which has a
tremendous amount of money,there's a lot of money that it
spends on other things.
I've heard that.
I've heard that.
I've heard they've spent things,spent money on things.
Or the state government, whichhas made choices this year to
cut revenues, the state has lessmoney.

(42:33):
But if those two entities wereto prioritize making sure that
children could eat at school, itwouldn't fall on these
nonprofits.
And I'm thinking of, you know, Ihad like a mini episode, a mini
sode about SNAP benefits andreferenced that one of these
state lawmakers in the committeewhen they were approving the
contract, the emergency contractwith the Department of Health

(42:54):
and Human Services.
She's like, well, if everyonejust opened their wallets, if
everyone just gave more.
It's like that's not how any ofthis works.
It shouldn't be how it works.
It shouldn't be a good thing.
It shouldn't be like that,because that's what your job is.

SPEAKER_00 (43:07):
Our executive director testified in Concord
two years ago for the HungerFree New Hampshire Act and was
talking about the stress andburden that it was placing on
our staff and volunteers, giventhe increase in need.
And the Hunger Free NewHampshire Act, if you haven't
heard about it, was a an act acomprehensive bill to help

(43:29):
assist programming for children,including uh school lunch and
breakfast in the state of NewHampshire and increasing uh SNAP
benefits spending with AnnHayes, our executive director,
and and the president of the NewHampshire Food Bank and uh folks
from the New Hampshire HungerSolutions, all testifying.
We still had legislators thatwere saying that, well, they
don't really feel like hunger isan issue in New Hampshire,

(43:51):
despite hearing testimony to saythe contrary.
We hear from people on a dailybasis how hard it is for them to
be able to make these types ofdecisions.
And people that don't hear thatevery day choose to not pay
attention or believe it.
And then that in turn manifestsinto what we see at the state

(44:12):
and federal level.

SPEAKER_01 (44:13):
The policy decisions they make and choose not to make
intentionally.
So, Kate, it's Tuesday ofThanksgiving week, the week of
like abundance and so much food.
What should people be doing?
They're listening to thisepisode, they are brining their
turkey.
What should they, or if theydon't eat meat, making their
potatoes, I assume.
What can they do?

(44:33):
Like what would be helpful?

SPEAKER_00 (44:35):
I think my kind of cynical response to that is to
pay attention and give back anyweek that is not this week.
This month.
So my my role is I do fooddrives, fundraisers, events,
overseeing our Thanksgivingdistribution.
We see a really wonderful,tremendous amount of support
around this time of year.

SPEAKER_01 (44:56):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (44:56):
And especially on November 1st, when people knew
that Snap Benefits were frozen,we had an additional wave of
support from the community,which was wonderful to see.
By the time January comes along,that kind of drops off.
So I usually encourage people totake this time to remember yes,
there are people that are notable to have a Thanksgiving meal

(45:18):
on the table that, but they alsoaren't able to have a meal on
the table or a healthy meal onthe table for their family, most
other days of the year as well.
And that really increases in thecolder months.
You know, we're gonna have a,you know, we're having a a bit
of a a bit of a hot November,hotter than usual.
So gas bills may not be as highas they have historically.

(45:42):
But by the time January comesalong, you know, if you're used
to only paying, you know, 100bucks to heat your house, and
then by the time January,February, March comes along,
that's you're paying like$400.
That, you know, for a lot ofpeople, money's gonna have to be
cut back elsewhere.
So this time of year, I I try toremind people to remember us
other times of year as well.

SPEAKER_01 (46:04):
We'll re-up this episode in January and in June
and other times of the year too.
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (46:09):
And you know, we talk about circumstances.
So who knows when we're gonnasee an increase.
And that's the kind of nature ofour work.
We didn't anticipate that therewas gonna be a government
shutdown.
We didn't anticipate that therewas gonna be a a snap freeze.
But now I get a lot of questionsof, oh, well, now that New
Hampshire residents arereceiving their snap benefits,
does that mean that you don'tneed as much help?

(46:29):
And the answer is no, becausewe've been seeing an increase in
need for years.
We had a record high in thepantry two weeks ago.
We had 188 people in one day.

SPEAKER_01 (46:38):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
Um, when I started gather, we are seeing like 40 to
50 people a day.
And the past year our averagehas been about 80 to 90.

SPEAKER_01 (46:45):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (46:46):
And yes, that increase may have been the
result of snap freeze and andgovernment shutdown, but we've
been seeing an a steady increasefor years because of the cost of
food and the cost of living inthis area and in this state.
So this is my very long-windedway of saying that I love
Thanksgiving.
I love and appreciate this timeof year.
I think it's really importantfor people to have these

(47:08):
reflective moments.
But I think my one hope is thatpeople take the energy that
we've seen in this past month,this kind of community
collective that we've seen,people stepping up and
recognizing and thinking abouttheir neighbors.
And I would like to see peoplefunnel that into all different
times of the year.
Keep in tune, look out for eachother, all different times of
year.

SPEAKER_01 (47:27):
So, listener, if you're like, wait, I was gonna
do something this week, still dothat thing this week.

SPEAKER_00 (47:32):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (47:32):
And it's a yes end.
Yes to that and circle back inDecember and January and
February and so forth.
That's the message I'mreceiving.

SPEAKER_00 (47:40):
And I also encourage people to visit the New
Hampshire Hunger Solutionswebsite and subscribe to their
newsletter because they are anincredible organization that are
always keeping on top of whatlegislation is being passed at
the state level to increase foodaccess or to or to decrease food
access.
They've been on top of thesesnap cuts for years and years.
Um, New Hampshire HungerSolutions is a great place for

(48:01):
you to keep your finger on thepulse of that kind of
legislation.

SPEAKER_01 (48:05):
I will have that link in the show notes.
They have uh incredibleinformation constantly that they
send out about what's going onin the state house.
Like they are great at keepingfolks up to date on that.

SPEAKER_00 (48:14):
I just wish that everyone could spend a day in
our pantry and really get toknow the people that we serve
and understand that there's allwalks of life that can be
vulnerable at any point.
And that does not mean that theydo not deserve access to food
and other essential things.

SPEAKER_01 (48:33):
No matter what you have done or not done, you still
deserve food.
Yes.
Real controversial in thisepisode.
Sorry, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 (48:42):
People are gonna get a little bit mad at us.

SPEAKER_01 (48:44):
But next I'm gonna tell people that they need
water.
Thank you for listening to NewHampshire Has Issues.
If you're listening now, it'safter the music, and that means
that you were hoping forsomething funny.
Oh my god, I don't have anythingfunny, but if you like the show,
I would love if you would leavea rating and review on Apple

(49:06):
Podcasts or Spotify or whereveryou listen.
And maybe next time, when youstick it out to the end, I'll
have some hilarious joke at theend, just for you.

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