February 24, 2026 • 42 mins
What exactly happens at a New Hampshire town meeting? Hopkinton Town Moderator Sara Persechino breaks down how town meeting (day? night?) works, what a moderator does, and why local democracy matters.
Liz regrets not making the joke, "it's like 10,000 brooms when all you need is a street sweeper." The show notes will have to do.
New episodes on Tuesdays.
Become a supporter of the show --> this helps Liz continue to make episodes!
Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email Liz: newhampshirehasissues@gmail.com
This episode pairs well with these previous episodes: "Towns, Property Taxes, and a Street Sweeper (maybe) with Niko Papakonstantis" and "Voting with McKenzie Taylor"
Links:
- New Hampshire Campaign for Voting Rights
- Check your voter registration status (NH Secretary of State)
- Do you want to vote but are confused about town meeting? Here’s how it works (Concord Monitor)
- Deliberative sessions, SB2 and more: Your guide to New Hampshire town meetings (NHPR)
- Town meeting or ballot vote? In typical New Hampshire fashion, it depends on the community (Granite State News Collaborative)
- Hopkinton 2026 Town Meeting Information
- New Hampshire Town Meeting Guide: A Voter's Guide (NH Secretary of State)
- Australian Ballot (Brittanica)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sara Persechino (00:00):
Yes, I try only to do public speaking once a
year, you know, in front ofseven other people.
Liz Canada (00:04):
This isn't public speaking.
This is just you and me,chit-chatting.
Nobody else listens to this.
It's just us.
You're listening to NewHampshire Has Issues, and I am
your host, Liz Canada, and mysnowblower is almost working
(00:28):
perfectly, thanks to a littleduct tape.
Today's episode is all aboutyour local elections.
Participating in town meetingor your deliberative session or
casting a ballot for your localcommunity budget is the best way
to participate in directdemocracy.
(00:50):
If you haven't registered tovote yet, now is an excellent
time while you're snowed in tofind your passport or your birth
certificate, as well as anyother documents you may need so
that you can be ready to go toyour town clerk's office or your
city clerk's office toregister.
Check the show notes for moredetails.
And if you need to check yourregistration status just to make
(01:12):
sure you are still on there,all of those links are in the
show notes to help you.
If you would like to supportthe show, you can go to
patreon.com slash nh has issues.
If you have an idea for anepisode, or if you are really
excited because you are votingfor the first time in New
Hampshire this year, send me anemail.
New Hampshire has Issues atgmail.com.
Sara has great advice in thisepisode about bringing a buddy
(01:33):
with you to town meeting.
Your buddy doesn't have to befrom your town.
You guys can just sit together.
It's a public meeting.
We'll talk about that in thisepisode.
It's going to be a few weeksbefore the next episode comes
out.
So in the meantime, for thoseof us who are voting, good job.
And otherwise, thank you forlistening.
Welcome to New Hampshire HasIssues.
The podcast that dares to ask.
(01:54):
Can I have a motion to openthis podcast?
So moved.
All right.
Sara, do you have a tagline forme?
Sara Persechino (02:01):
New Hampshire Has Issues, the podcast that
dares to ask, why are so manypeople in this gym wearing
flannel?
I love that.
Liz Canada (02:08):
And also it could just be people watching a
basketball game.
Could they not?
Sara Persechino (02:12):
No.
At least not in Hopkinton'sgym.
It's the same venue, verydifferent attire.
What does one wear to abasketball game in Hopkinton?
Well, you should be wearingyour team colors, don't you
think?
Liz Canada (02:24):
Are you guys anti-flannel at a basketball
game in Hopkinton?
Sara Persechino (02:27):
Is that what I mean?
There's definitely more flannelat a town meeting.
And I don't know why.
I do not have the answer.
I'll just put it right outthere.
I don't have the answer, butit's tradition and I like it.
And if someone has the answer,they should write in to your
pod.
Send me an email.
Liz Canada (02:43):
New Hampshire has issues at gmail.com.
Why are people wearing flannelat town meeting?
Sara Persechino (02:48):
I think Rebecca Rule has the answer to this,
but I haven't I haven't askedher.
Liz Canada (02:51):
Well we'll get we're gonna get to hold up as they
say on secret lives of MormonWives.
All right, well, my guest todayis the Hopkinton town moderator
and a friend of mine.
She's why are you laughing atthat?
Are you are you not a friend ofmine?
Is this how you're telling me?
On my own body.
Sara Persechino (03:11):
Longtime listener, first-time caller, you
know.
It's great.
Liz Canada (03:14):
All right, so friend and Hopkinton town moderator,
Sara Persechino.
Sara, welcome to the show.
I am so glad that you're here.
Sara Persechino (03:21):
I am grateful you asked me and reluctant to be
here.
Liz Canada (03:26):
That's exactly how I like my guests to feel.
Extremely reluctant to talk tome.
It's perfect.
We're gonna talk about townmeeting.
Specifically, you as amoderator of your town.
Let me start with a simplequestion.
What does a town moderator do?
Simple question.
What do you do as a townmoderator?
Sara Persechino (03:44):
Okay, very simply, broadly overview.
A town moderator is in chargeof voting in a community.
So they are elected toadminister elections and to run
the annual meeting in a town.
So this year there are multipleelections.
We have a town, a stateprimary, and a federal election.
So there are three elections.
Some years it's just the townelection.
(04:06):
So it's different year to year,but broadly we're in charge of
that.
Liz Canada (04:09):
But you're in charge of it.
I know.
You're not gonna like that Iinterrupt you, but I do I am
gonna interrupt you.
Sara Persechino (04:14):
I have like a whole agenda here.
Liz Canada (04:16):
I know.
Sara Persechino (04:17):
I don't know if you know, but in at town
meeting, you have to berecognized by the moderator
before you can speak.
So this is very different, Liz.
I like being in charge a littlebit more.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
That's okay.
Liz Canada (04:29):
But what does it mean to be in charge?
Like, I could stand up in frontof our deliberative session and
pretend that I'm in charge, butthat doesn't actually make me
in charge.
Like, what does it mean to bein charge of it?
Sara Persechino (04:40):
Well, I'm in charge of a town meeting because
the town elected me to do that.
They elected me moderator.
It's a two-year term.
So every two years a moderatoris elected.
And so they have empowered meto do this.
And so I will follow the uhlaws as they are written.
On a recent episode, my friendBrini asked you if you had read
(05:01):
New Hampshire's insurancestatutes.
Are you following up for her tofind out if I have?
Liz Canada (05:06):
I haven't.
So I still still haven't.
All right, there's still time.
Not only have I not, but I'mactively rebelling against
reading them.
Sara Persechino (05:13):
Here's an Easter egg for your listeners.
Sabrina is actually the selectboard chair in Hopkinton.
So we work together quite a bitfor town meeting.
I know all roads lead toHopkinton.
I've been saying it for years.
So I know you didn't read theinsurance statute, but I am
wondering have you ever read thestate statute in relation to a
(05:34):
town moderator?
Liz Canada (05:35):
Okay.
This one feels more likely thatI would do.
This does seem like a thing.
It's a lot shorter.
And yet the answer is no.
Sara Persechino (05:42):
Okay.
I do think just for fun, we'llread it right now because I can
do it so quick and it'lldemystify the whole thing.
Liz Canada (05:49):
Congress Movement Goodlander says read the U.S.
Constitution.
Nick Taylor says read yourzoning ordinances.
Breenie says read the insurancestatutes.
I haven't done any of thosethings.
Terrible former Englishteacher, but you are going to do
the right thing, which is readit out loud to me.
Is that what you're saying?
Sara Persechino (06:07):
I am.
And here's the thing.
I read out loud every warrantarticle at town meeting too,
because I know maybe noteverybody has done their
homework in advance.
And so we'll do a littleread-along.
Okay?
Okay.
So under moderator, duties.
This is it.
The moderator shall preside inthe town meetings, regulate the
business thereof, decidequestions of order, and make a
public declaration of every votepassed and may prescribe rules
(06:29):
of proceeding, but such rulesmay be altered by the town.
So that's it.
Period.
That's the only duty I have.
That's all it spells out in thestate statute for town meeting.
Do you want to get into it?
Liz Canada (06:41):
I do.
Because it sounds like you makepublic declarations, which
sounds very exciting.
You declare things.
You make rules, but then thepeople of your town get to say,
we don't want that rule anymore.
Is that what I just heard too?
Sara Persechino (06:53):
Yeah.
If a majority of them agree.
Yes.
I can be overruled.
Okay.
So the moderator is not a queenor a king.
There are checks.
The ultimate authority at atown meeting is the legislative
body, and the legislative bodyis the voters.
Everyone who's gathered in thatspace, wherever it may be in
Hopkinton, it's our high school,middle school gym.
(07:14):
So the voters who have checkedin and are there for town
meeting, they are the ultimateauthority.
So I set forth the rules that Ithink would help us go through
the session.
And then they can change themat the beginning of the meeting,
at any time during the meeting.
They can do a point of orderand challenge a ruling that I
might make.
And if they get a simplemajority vote, they can overrule
(07:35):
me.
Liz Canada (07:36):
So you create the rules of the day and do you send
them out in advance to everysingle person who lives in
Hopkinton?
How does that work?
How do I know what the rulesare when I show up?
Sara Persechino (07:46):
That's a great question.
So, and it's actually somethingwe're working on because I
think demystifying town meetingand making sure people know how
they can participate is superimportant.
So, past precedent that I havebeen participating in Hopkinton
town meetings, we have not sentthese rules out in advance.
They have been said aloud atthe beginning of the meeting.
I'm currently working with ournewly elected school moderator
(08:08):
to publish our rules ofprocedure on the town website to
make sure people can accessthat before.
Um, I actually will give creditto the Bo town and school
moderator.
So Peter Imse does this and hehas provided a guide shout-out,
great resource there in Bo.
And it pains me to say thatbecause I live in Hopkinton and
in high school we were bitterrivals.
So it is it is difficult togive Bo a shout-out.
(08:31):
So yes, we are going to try tobe more public about what the
rules are because for peoplewho've been going to town
meeting for 20 years, they'vebroadly bend the same rules.
But for someone who may be newto town, who maybe came from a
community that doesn't have atraditional town meeting like we
do, that might be new, andwe're trying to break down the
barriers to participation.
Liz Canada (08:50):
Give me an example of a rule because it sounds very
strict and scary.
Give me, give me one of therules.
Sara Persechino (08:56):
It's not okay.
Some of the things look likewhat happens at the state house.
The state house operates underRobert's rules.
We are not that formal inHoppington.
So we s I specifically say atthe start of the meeting that we
are not bound by Robert'srules.
But we do have a lot of similarprovisions.
Who's Robert?
You know, I don't know.
Uh he probably wore flipflannel.
It probably came from him, butI don't know.
(09:18):
So, rule number one themoderator will not follow
Robert's rules.
He follows.
It's rule number one.
It's important.
Who's gonna oppose that?
Liz Canada (09:28):
Robert himself is gonna show up and be like, now
wait a minute.
I made those rules and I likethem.
Sara Persechino (09:33):
Here's the thing.
We're actually trying to avoidgetting bogged down in the
legislative finaglings andparliamentary procedures that
can happen under Robert's rules,which I know you've witnessed
in the House session.
It can get confusing.
So we're trying to make it alittle simpler.
We've already gone over thatany of these rules can be
overturned.
They can tell me I'm wrong andwe can change them.
(09:54):
Yep.
Okay.
It's how I consider thearticle.
So the select board putstogether the warrant in
Hopkinton.
They say, here are the articlesthat we're going to be voting
on.
And they give that to the town.
They warn the town that this iswhat they're talking about at
town meeting.
And then it's my job to runthrough those.
So I will say, we're going totake these articles in the order
that they're displayed.
If for some reason there is anarticle that I think should be
(10:17):
taken out of order, I'll saythat at the beginning.
So sometimes you'll have a bondvote over $100,000.
And that vote needs a secretballot that's open for an hour.
So I would say, let's do thatfirst so we don't get to it at
the end and then have to stayanother hour just to make sure
everyone gets their chance tovote.
So sometimes we move thingsaround without objection from
the voters.
That's kind of a rule that I ammaking.
(10:37):
So when we go through, we'regonna go step by step.
When we go through the warrant,I will announce the article
number.
The text is displayed in theirtown report.
So everybody gets a printedtown report if they'd like it,
or it's available online.
It's also displayed on a screenat the front of the gym.
And as I said before, I read itout loud because I like to make
sure we've all gotten on thesame page.
(10:58):
So I will read it out loud.
My mouth does get very dry bythe end of the night, but I
think it's important.
It's not required.
And then I'll recognize amember of the select board or a
petitioner, which we'll get intothat later, to move the
adoption of the article.
The motion that is made by aselect board member or the
petitioner must be seconded.
And then the member whopresented it will speak to it.
Then I open up debate.
(11:19):
So anyone who is a registeredvoter is able to speak at a town
meeting.
Liz Canada (11:24):
Anyone a registered voter in your town, yes.
Sara Persechino (11:27):
In your town, yes.
There are other people who arenot registered voters in the
town who are given permission bythe moderator to speak because
they have expertise orinformation that is important.
So a town administrator or atown manager may not live in the
community where they are themanager, but it's important for
them to be able to speak at ameeting.
We've had presentations by thelottery commission that I think
(11:48):
are important when people areconsidering articles.
So without objection fromvoters, non-residents can speak,
but it's more rare.
So if you are a voter and youwant to speak, we just ask that
you either ask for a handheldmic to be brought to you or
approach the mics that we haveset up in the gymnasium to be
recognized.
People have to line up, singlefile order, very, you know, try
to keep it tidy, orderly.
(12:09):
We try, we're trying, and Iwill acknowledge, I will
recognize the person on themember on the floor to speak.
Now, voters have three minutesto speak.
That is a rule that we set up.
It could be overturned, butthat is the rule that we set up
in order to ensure that everyonewho has something to say can
say it without us being therethrough the late hours of the
(12:31):
night, which would not helpanyone.
I have little cards that I handup now, cues like a yellow card
to say you have 30 seconds, youknow, visual cues.
Try to be polite about movingthings around.
And we do have a rule that youcannot speak for a second time
until everyone who's wanted tosay something has spoken.
And that may happen at yourdeliberative session.
Like birthday cake.
Liz Canada (12:51):
Everybody's got to get a piece before you can have
a second piece.
Sara Persechino (12:54):
Exactly.
You can speak again, you justhave to let everybody else have
their turn first.
When you are recognized tospeak, you have to give your
name and address for the record.
It is a public record.
We do have someone taking theminutes that is published in the
town report in the next year.
And then we take the votesmotion by motion.
So typically it will open withlike, here's the article on the
budget, and someone makes amotion to pass it.
(13:15):
Someone seconds that motion.
We have a debate.
Voters might ask questions.
All of the comments andquestions have to be directed to
the moderator.
So it's like, everyone'stalking to you.
Everyone's talking to me.
And it is confusing.
That's, I think, the thing Ihave to remind folks of the most
is that this is not a back andforth debate between voters or
between a voter and the selectboard.
The questions come through meand then I identify who should
(13:38):
answer that question.
And again, it's all abouttrying to keep order.
You'll notice the same thing onthe floor of the New Hampshire
House of Representatives.
When people speak, they speakMr.
Speaker.
Mr.
Liz Canada (13:47):
Speaker.
Yes.
Exactly.
Mr.
Speaker.
Sara Persechino (13:49):
And my first year of an in-person meeting, I
did have someone ask what theyshould call me because Mr.
Speaker didn't sound right.
I was the first woman elected.
So yes, we had to go over that.
I'd like you to call me LadySpeaker.
Liz Canada (14:01):
Thank you.
Sara Persechino (14:02):
Lady Speaker?
Miss Speaker.
Liz Canada (14:05):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sara Persechino (14:06):
Yes.
So we did have to clear that upin Hoffkington.
Liz Canada (14:09):
First order of business.
What do we call you?
Sara Persechino (14:11):
What do we call you?
It's, you know, important.
So it seems very dry, but youknow, things get things get
moving.
All right.
Liz Canada (14:18):
When I had Nico Papaconcetis, who's our Exeter
Select Board Chair, we talkedabout a few things that could be
on a warrant.
So uh it could be that you'retrying to purchase a new street
sweeper in your community.
So you're saying at townmeeting, you, town moderator,
would read what would be on thewarrant allowed to the whole
(14:39):
gymnasium full of people wearingflannel.
And then you open it up andpeople can go to the mic and
say, I think street sweepers areincredible.
Here's why we should pass it.
And then somebody behind themcould say, I think we should
manually sweep everything withbrooms.
And it could go back and forthlike that.
That's what you'retheoretically.
It goes theoretically.
Theoretically.
Sara Persechino (14:59):
It goes like that.
I do encourage people to speakfrom eye feeling statements.
So to share their beliefs,their questions, their
perspective without disparagingothers.
I see my role as moderator asbeing a little bit of a mom.
So trying to regulate thatdebate between siblings in a
healthy way where everyone canfeel heard without feeling hurt,
right?
Sometimes I will have to remindfolks not to ascribe motive to
(15:20):
someone else just because theymight have a difference of
opinion on how we get to asolution on an article or an
issue that they need to brain itin a little bit.
And sometimes you have, youknow, just people who shout out
from the crowd, that's notright, or something.
And then you have to say,please stop.
Please stop.
You can come up to amicrophone, get in line.
Liz Canada (15:39):
Thank you.
Thanks for watching.
Everyone can say things aloud.
So after this debate around thebudget or around getting a new
fire truck or whatever it mightbe, how do you take the vote?
Like you're all in thisgymnasium.
Yeah.
Sara Persechino (15:53):
How does it work?
So if there are no morespeakers, I will say, like
anyone else wish to speak onthis motion.
If there's no one, I'll say,all right, without objection,
we'll go into the voting mode.
And then I will say, all thosein favor of article three say
aye, the ayes will speak.
All those opposed say nay, thenays will say nay.
And hopefully I can tell fromthe ayes and the nays what the
(16:16):
vote is.
If I can't, then we haveoptions.
So we could move to a standingvote or raising your hand for a
vote.
Or if I really can't tell, andif that doesn't work, we could
also move to a secret ballotvote, which takes a little bit
more time.
There's also a provision in NewHampshire State statute that
five registered voters who arepresent at the time can have a
(16:37):
written request for a secretballot on any article.
So if five voters who are thereand present think that it
should be a secret ballot voteon the budget, on that street
sweeper you were talking about,then I have to open up a secret
ballot.
Some of those things arerequired by statute.
Like I was saying before, anybond over $100,000 has to be a
secret ballot vote, has to beopen for an hour.
(16:58):
So then it changes, it's alittle bit different.
But yeah, instead of having awritten ballot that you vote on
on that second Tuesday in March,we are doing it all in person,
just like the legislature doeswhen they vote on their bills.
Liz Canada (17:11):
Okay, Sara, I live in Exeter.
We don't, we don't do it likethat.
Like I don't want to be thatperson, but that's not how we do
it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Uh why?
Why are we doing thingsdifferently in Exeter from
Hopkinton?
Sara Persechino (17:25):
Because in Exeter, y'all adopted what is
commonly referred to as SB2.
So you have a different form ofgovernment where you have a
deliberative session.
What's voted on at thedeliberative session goes on to
an official ballot, anAustralian ballot, I believe
they call it.
And then you vote on that.
That doesn't sound American.
What?
Listen, I don't know.
(17:47):
It's SB2.
I'm pretty sure that's whatit's called.
Wow.
Oh.
It's the official ballotreferendum system.
Your community voted to moveaway from the traditional
meeting and to have that SB2voting.
And so on March 10th, thisyear, the second Tuesday of
every March, you will vote oneverything.
But there will have been agroup of voters who got
together, maybe in a gym, maybein an auditorium.
(18:07):
Auditorium make the finalballot.
So you make the warrant final.
The select board can onlypropose what they want, but you
can adjust that at thedeliberative.
But when you go for theofficial ballot voting, it's
just a yes or no, right?
So at the town meeting, you cango back and forth and amend
things as much as you want untilyou get to something that the
consensus says eye on.
Liz Canada (18:29):
I am suddenly having strong feelings about which way
I think it should go, whetherit's the way Exeter does it or
the way Hopkins does it.
I'll keep it to myself.
Sara Persechino (18:37):
I think you should come to Hopkinton and
check it out.
It'll be great because youdon't have to be a registered
voter in a town to go to theirannual meeting.
You can just go watch the show.
You just hang and observe.
Because it's a public meeting.
You can go.
You can't vote, but you canwatch.
It's fun.
It's fun.
You'll like it.
It's fun.
Go to a town meeting.
Town meeting.
Cities don't do this.
(18:57):
Social event of the year, youknow?
Liz Canada (19:00):
Wear your best flannel or your worst.
Wear whatever you want.
This is uh this is veryinteresting because what I think
I am hearing you say is that ifyou live in a town that has a
traditional town meeting day,you don't like go and pick up a
ballot and fill it out and thenhand it in.
That's not what you're doing onyour town meeting.
Sara Persechino (19:20):
So we still have right, we still have ballot
voting.
So we have the ballot votingportion, articles one and two,
which would be the election ofofficers, all of our officers
for the school and town getelected on a traditional paper
on that paper ballot that youare talking about.
And zoning ordinances, articletwo, would get voted on on the
paper ballot.
And that happens on the samesecond Tuesday that you're going
(19:43):
to go vote.
But the rest of our articlesare voted on at that business
session, is what we call it.
The business session of thetown meeting.
This is so fascinating.
Why do we do things like this?
Where did this come from?
So it started, if we want thehistory, the first town meeting.
The first town meeting was heldin the 1630s in Massachusetts
(20:07):
in Dorchester.
Liz Canada (20:09):
Oh, massing up New Hampshire with Town Meeting Day.
Thank goodness.
Okay.
Yep.
We're doing it just likeMassachusetts.
Yeah.
Love it.
Sara Persechino (20:18):
The men were coming together, they were
divvying up their land, and thenslowly New Hampshire adopted
this form of government.
They always met in March.
And can you guess why theywould have met in March in the
1600s, Liz?
No, I cannot.
Because we were in agrariansociety and the farmers weren't
planting their crops yet.
So they had some time on theirhands, right?
Liz Canada (20:38):
Like I mean, it feels like a few other months
that it could have been.
Sara Persechino (20:42):
Well, you can't do it in January.
You could have two feet ofsnow.
How are you getting a townmeeting?
It's tricky.
So, you know, we have kept thatsame traditional timeline.
I'm not sure there's actually atime in our month or week or
year that isn't busy at thispoint for a society.
It's very different than 1600sNew Hampshire, but that has
stayed the tradition.
(21:02):
Some towns have moved away toan April or May meeting.
Let's not get into that rightnow.
Let's just stay with March.
Liz Canada (21:09):
It's too much.
I like to say, generallyspeaking, towns vote in the
spring and cities vote in thefall.
Generally speaking, I'm suresomeone's gonna write in and
say, actually, Liz, I know.
But generally speaking,springtime, town, fall time,
cities.
(21:29):
Because of the 1600s.
Sara Persechino (21:32):
Yeah.
Well, you know, I know you lovethe executive council and
talking about that.
So it's, you know, similarholdovers from colonial.
Liz Canada (21:40):
That's one way to put it.
What's what's on the warrantfor Hopkinton?
Let me hear about some examplesso that we can use some here.
Sara Persechino (21:46):
The biggest thing that happens every year in
a town meeting is the budget.
So if you are a fan of directdemocracy and having a say in
how your money is spent, youwant to go vote at your town
meeting.
Meeting or deliberative sessioneach March, right?
Because that's how the localleaders are deciding how your
dollars are getting spent andyou where you can have the
(22:08):
biggest impact.
So that's the biggest thing.
Liz Canada (22:11):
So you say a warrant, somebody goes up and
they talk about it and they'relike, actually, Madam Moderator,
I want to change this.
I want to amend it.
How does that work?
Sara Persechino (22:19):
Yep.
And that's the higher motionwould be a motion to amend.
If you have a motion to passsomething, you can motion to
amend, that would be the motionin order.
And so you have to get yoursecond again.
Um, if it's a complicatedmotion, I ask folks to write it
down.
So I make sure I have itaccurate for the record.
But it has to be related towhat's in the article because
the select board is required topublicly post the warrant and
(22:43):
properly warn all the voters ofwhat's going to be voted on at
town meeting.
Liz Canada (22:47):
Do you say warn to warn them?
Sara Persechino (22:50):
To warn them.
Yes.
You have to be properly warnedto be notified of the decisions
that will be made.
Uh ask Robert.
I don't know.
Liz Canada (22:58):
Warn?
This is the word we use.
How about we just notify?
How about we just give people aheads up of what's happening?
Where are we warning people?
Sara Persechino (23:06):
I mean, those are all synonyms.
You're an English teacher, Ithink.
Liz Canada (23:09):
No, I know, but warrant has like a negative
connotation.
It's like, why is Jacob Marleyshowing up to tell you that
there's a warrant article?
Sara Persechino (23:16):
Like Okay, fine.
The select board is justletting you know what they're
gonna talk about and vote on.
So you can't change it.
So you can't have a motion, oryou can't have a warrant article
that says we're going to voteto purchase the street sweeper.
Let's go back to your streetsweeper.
Liz Canada (23:30):
I love the street sweeper.
Sara Persechino (23:31):
All right, maybe someone doesn't want to
buy a street sweeper.
That's fine.
But a motion to change it tosay that the town should buy a
unicorn would not, you know, youcan't do that.
Liz Canada (23:42):
If that was the proposal, I would be interested
in that.
Sara Persechino (23:45):
We would have a lot more people at town
meeting, but you can't do thatbecause no one knew that there
would be a vote on a unicorn,right?
So no.
But here's the thing.
Even though I say that, eventhough I give that advice as a
moderator, if the majority ofvoters still wanted to change
that article, remember they'rethe ultimate authority.
So I can tell them this has nolegal binding.
(24:07):
You can't make the town buy aunicorn.
Liz Canada (24:10):
So a street sweeper warrant article could be amended
to say, well, we don't want topurchase a whole street sweeper,
but we do want to purchase abroom for every household in
Exeter.
Sara Persechino (24:23):
And so I make a motion that I would love to
hear the conversation between amoderator and the legal counsel
present at that meeting aboutthat.
Liz Canada (24:33):
If everybody just did their part and go out into
the street and just sweepindividuals.
I've seen happen that'sindividualism.
Sara Persechino (24:42):
No, no comment.
Um what I have seen happen isthat people would add the
language to vote to study thepurchase of something.
So, like, well, maybe bring usmore information next year.
Liz Canada (24:53):
Yeah.
Sara Persechino (24:53):
That's something I've seen.
Some of the more colorfuldebates that I've seen in
Hoppington have taken place onissues related to recycling.
So we had years ago, and I havebeen going to town meetings for
years and years, but I startedgoing as a reporter for a local
newspaper, and the debate ofthat time, which was a while
(25:15):
ago, was about pay by bag, a payby bag program, which would
require you to purchase acertain color bag that you would
put your trash in.
Hopkinton had it.
And then for years and yearsand years after it was adopted
in Hopkinton, there was apetition warrant article on the
um warrant every year to rescindthe pay by bag program.
(25:37):
So that got a lot of play formore than 10 years.
That petition warrant articledidn't actually pass ever, but
last year the town put forward aproposal to get rid of the pay
by bag program because it didn'tincrease recycling.
We have a tricky situation inHopkinton, and this will be the
most controversial thing I talkabout.
So, dear listeners, please knowI am the moderator.
(25:58):
I do not take a position on anyof these articles, and I do not
even vote at town meeting.
I just don't.
I'm only there to help you allthough.
Liz Canada (26:05):
Sara Persechino, not a voter.
Got it.
Sara Persechino (26:07):
Not a not a voter.
Liz Canada (26:08):
Not a voter.
Sara Persechino (26:09):
This is a fun fact that, like Speaker of the
House, the moderator can vote tomake a tie or break a tie.
But I personally feel that thatis the least appropriate time
for me as neutral moderatortrying to facilitate a vote for
everyone else to weigh in.
I'm not elected with a partylike the speaker is.
I'm not affiliated with anyoneon the floor.
(26:31):
I just don't think that wouldbe a good, a good look for my
neutrality.
So I don't vote at all at townmeeting.
Liz Canada (26:37):
That's the clip I'm pulling.
I don't vote at all.
Just that by itself.
Sara Persechino (26:43):
You do not vote at town meetings.
So my little voter stickernever has the color check marks
on it because I don't voteduring the town meeting.
I do check in, make sureeveryone knows I was there.
We need fourth graders to makestickers for the moderators.
Liz Canada (26:55):
And it's like, I didn't vote.
I moderated.
I moderated checkmarks.
Sara Persechino (27:00):
Okay.
Oh.
Damn.
So the town actually, theselect board, put forward an
article last year to rescindthat due to ineffectiveness.
And it's tricky because theHopkinton has a shared transfer
station with our neighboringtown of Webster, and Webster
didn't have pay by bag.
So I think there was somelogistical struggles that
hindered it.
But yeah, so now we don't havepay by bag.
(27:21):
But that was a hot topic everyyear that we talked about that.
One of the other things thatcomes up often, and I think
maybe almost every year thatI've been moderator is a
petition warrant article toadopt Exeter's form of
government, SB2.
So to move to the officialpaper ballot form of voting.
And that has not passed,obviously, because we're doing
(27:41):
town meeting.
Liz Canada (27:42):
I want to go back to the pay by bag situation.
Oh no.
Do you all now have like a feeto have your trash taken away?
What do you do now?
So if you don't have the bluebags as we do, what do you do?
Sara Persechino (27:55):
Well, we had green bags.
Hoppington does not havecurbside pickups.
So you have to pay a hauler.
Honey, we are a very smallcommunity.
What?
And trust, trust that thestudies have been done and it is
not financially feasible.
So we have private haulers, oryou bring your own waste to the
transfer station.
So that is how you do it.
(28:15):
And now it's just absorbed bythe property taxes.
Whereas those funds were offsetby the revenue from the bags.
Now that whole cost is borne bythe property taxpayer directly
through the property taxes.
Liz Canada (28:27):
I just learned so much in this last moment of that
you have to haul your own.
Sara Persechino (28:32):
Yeah, but we have a great transfer station.
The folks there who run it areawesome.
And there's a lovely littleswap shop.
You can find some real greatstuff at the transfer station if
you go first thing on a Friday.
Liz Canada (28:42):
I don't even know where to go from here with that
information.
I don't know.
I don't even know.
Sara Persechino (28:46):
That's it.
That's the pod.
We're done.
Maybe you should have someonewho runs a transfer station on
the pod.
Liz Canada (28:52):
Oh, I so should.
Sara Persechino (28:54):
Because trash is a bit of an issue in in New
Hampshire.
I it's I won't speak out ofterms.
I don't know a lot about it,but I've heard it's an issue.
Big time.
Liz Canada (29:01):
As moderator, what do you look forward to the most
for town meeting day?
Do you call it town meetingday?
Am I saying the wrong thing?
This is like when I was talkingto Nick and I kept saying
zoning committee, and he's like,that's wrong, but you keep
saying it wrong.
Sara Persechino (29:15):
Zoning board.
Liz Canada (29:16):
Zoning board.
Zoning board.
Sara Persechino (29:17):
I don't call it town meeting day.
I just call it town meeting.
Town meeting.
Yeah.
Do you do you call it electionday or just the elections?
I don't know.
It's election day, right?
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Liz Canada (29:28):
We have that.
Sara Persechino (29:28):
But I guess I don't say it's just town
meeting.
We also, our town meetingdoesn't happen during the day
now either.
Like the business sessionhappens at night now, so it
wouldn't be town meeting day.
Liz Canada (29:39):
Election after dark.
What do you most look forwardto when it comes to town
meetingslash election day?
Sara Persechino (29:47):
Okay, I know that I said this earlier and
maybe a little tongue-in-cheek,but truly it is often the social
event of the year.
So many community members arecoming out who you may not see
at other times or you haven'tseen for a while.
You know, getting to sit withyour I I would prefer, honestly,
to be sitting.
I love school districtmeetings, sitting with my
friends, observing, eating GirlScout cookies.
(30:09):
It's a little harder to do fromthe rostrum because everyone's
looking at you.
You know, you don't want cookiein your teeth while you're
moderating, get your knittingout, sitting in your flannel.
It's just like the vibes aregood at town meeting, I think.
It's what a pure wholesomething to engage in, right?
Where you are going and you arecharting the path forward for
your town.
And it's truly an honor to be apart of that, even if I find it
(30:30):
quite stressful to be runningthe show, so to speak.
But it is, it does start torestore your faith in humanity
and can get that many peoplewith disparate opinions to work
together to work through someproblems, come up with some
solutions.
It's not a perfect system, butI do think it's worked fairly
well for a few hundred years.
It is the most direct form ofdemocracy that most of us will
(30:54):
participate in in our lifetime,right?
You are the legislator, you arethe ultimate authority.
And that is pretty cool thatyou can do that.
It is a great form of directdemocracy, but you do have to
use it, right?
It's a muscle you have to use,you have to participate in, and
you get what you put into it,right?
Like if you want toparticipate, you you can.
(31:15):
You register to vote, you go,you show up, do a little bit of
homework, hang out, cast yourvote, and you get a say, right?
I recognize there are there aresome hurdles to participating
in an annual meeting in thetraditional town meeting.
And so certainly open totalking with folks about how we
make it more accessible.
In Hopkinton, we have theNational Honor Society that
offers childcare.
(31:35):
We have lots of groups thatsell food during the day or
evening, depending off at schoolor town, um, to try to make it
easier for folks to come.
But I recognize that, like inour society in this day and age,
you know, we're not all farmerswaiting to sew our crops.
We all have different workhours.
Our kids have silly schedulesthat keep us out all the time.
(31:57):
So we want to go to theirsports games and there are
complex.
But to the extent that it ispossible to be able to
participate, I think is very isa very special thing.
Liz Canada (32:06):
I think when people think about elections, they
think about voting forpresident.
That's the thing that they feelmost comfortable about.
But we have the most impact atour local election when there
may be 800 people in the room.
Your vote among 800 people isextremely powerful to impact
what's going on in your owncommunity.
Sara Persechino (32:26):
And on top of that, it's not just one vote out
of 800, right?
You have the opportunity atthat traditional town meeting to
speak to your fellow voters,right?
I do think that there are somepeople who come into town
meeting, they already know howthey're going to vote on
everything.
But some people go in thereunsure how they feel on a
particular warrant article andthey're looking to learn.
They're asking questionsbecause they want to understand
(32:47):
an issue.
They're listening to theircommunity members, some who may
have more experience, more timein the town, to suss out how
they feel on an issue.
I know there are people whochange their mind at a meeting,
right?
You come in thinking you'regonna vote yes on a budget, but
then maybe you change your mindor the other way around.
I think the fact that it isthis living, breathing thing,
(33:08):
you're not going into a ballotbooth all of a sudden by
yourself and getting to Article2 and realizing you don't
actually know what any of thezoning ordinance amendments are
and trying to ask your neighbor,and then I come over and tell
you to stop talking while youhave a ballot in your hand, you
know?
You get to talk to yourneighbors, you get to talk that
through and do that homework onthe on the ground while it's
(33:29):
happening, which I think is isreally special and very
different than the ballotvoting.
Liz Canada (33:34):
I think what's important for folks to know
before they go to deliberativesession or town meeting is that
you don't have to know what's onthe warrant already.
There are gonna be peoplethere.
Like that's the really nicepart about what I'm hearing from
you, Sara, town meeting and fordeliberative session is that
the moderator will read it outloud.
There will be people from yourcommunity standing up to talk
(33:57):
about it.
So like you don't have to knowanything before you get there to
be able to participate.
Sara Persechino (34:02):
If that feels like a safe space for people to
jump in going into a meeting,not knowing anything, great.
More power to you.
But if that, like that wouldfeel intimidating to me to walk
into a room and not knowanything or feel like I was
prepared.
And so I think the other thingthat folks should know is that
like we are not strangers in thecommunity, right?
Like your moderator, yourclerk, your select board
(34:24):
members, we're all listed.
Like we're publicly electedofficials and we are happy to
answer any questions.
So whenever the town clerk'soffice is open, if you have
questions, call in, stop in.
You got to register your dogsoon anyway.
You know, make it a twofer, askabout the meeting, you know,
get some of that information andthey'll tell you how to make
sure you're registered to vote,when it's happening, where you
(34:45):
can find the warrant.
Hopefully, all towns make iteasy to find that information on
their website too.
So building out the informationabout how you vote, how you
register, how you look at whatthe warrant is.
We put sample ballots up on thewebsite, right?
We put the warrant up on thewebsite so that people can see
that before every town meetingis different because every town
(35:07):
is different and every townmoderator is different.
So the state really doesn't setout tough strictures on how a
town meeting is run.
It is a process that is set upby the local voters by the
moderator.
And so it can look differenttown to town.
So it's so important to knowwhat it's gonna look like when
you go in there because themoderator in your town might not
read every warrant article outloud.
(35:27):
That's not required.
So they may not do that.
Yeah, that's true.
If you were expecting that tohappen and it doesn't happen,
you might feel a little bitconfused.
I'd also really encourage youto find maybe a friend or
someone you know who has gone toa meeting before and just sit
with them and maybe you can askthem questions throughout, like,
oh, what's happening now?
You know, like totally.
I got thrown into my firstmeeting when I was a baby
(35:50):
reporter.
I think I might have still beenin high school working for the
local paper.
But there's actually likethere's a family history.
My grandfather was a schoolmoderator, he was a town
moderator in Washington.
And so there's I never knewhim.
He died before I was born, so Inever went to a meeting where
he was presiding.
But that is, you know, a thingthat I grew up knowing.
And so that service isimportant.
And I know just from storiesand just from his obituary, that
(36:14):
like making sure everyone inhis community could go vote and
knew when to vote, that was themost important thing.
More than how he felt the townshould vote on anything.
It was that everybody who couldvote had the chance and knew
how to do that.
And encouraging everybody toget there, I think is the most
important thing.
I am so happy when we have aline out the door at 5.45 PM
(36:34):
because people are checking in.
It's a little stressful to tryto get everybody in, but it does
make my heart very happybecause you know you've like set
up a system where people cancome and participate.
And hopefully that that comesto fruition this year, too.
It takes a big effort, I thinkis one thing that would be
really, really important tostress, Liz, is that I might be
the moderator.
I might be tasked with being incharge of it, but it is not a
(36:56):
one-person show at all.
I have two assistant moderatorswho help me.
We have the town clerk whohelps set up, the assistant town
clerk, the supervisors of thechecklist are running check-in.
The town administrator does somuch prep work to get all of the
information out to voters toget make sure that I have the
information I need from theselect board.
We have the buildings andgrounds crew at the high school
(37:17):
and our public works departmentfolks who help set up for town
meeting.
We've got the sound person thatwe hire who's someone I went to
high school with.
You know, uh, as we know fromthe setup of the show, sound is
not my forte.
I should not be in charge ofthat at all, but it's very
important.
You want to make sure peoplecan hear.
We live stream our meeting, sowe've got to make sure that that
(37:38):
is running.
So if someone needs to be athome with a kid or a relative
who may be sick, but they wantto be listening for when it's
time to come vote, you know,they can be following along at
home, um, especially on thosesecret ballot votes and the ones
that require to be open for anhour.
You know, there is some time ifparents need to switch off with
that care.
We are trying, like I said,it's not a perfect system.
(37:58):
There are always improvements.
Liz Canada (37:59):
I never know if I say this on the podcast or just
everywhere else in my life, butso much of what happens in our
state, it's run by volunteers.
So yes, you might get paid afew hundred bucks a year.
State reps get paid a hundredbucks a year, but it's
essentially volunteers.
It's people who are committed,as you are, Sara, to making sure
that people can vote andtherefore will vote.
(38:21):
You make it as accessible forthem as possible.
Vote while you can, everybody.
Sara Persechino (38:25):
Can I build off of that though?
Because I had some things thatI wanted to make sure I said.
And I was so I want to buildoff that.
Liz Canada (38:30):
Yes, of course.
Sara Persechino (38:30):
So it is important to remember like all
of the secret ballot counters,all of the supervisors, we are
all volunteers.
Yes, we might get a little bitof a stipend, but at the end of
the day, like we have steppedup.
Your fellow voters are therebecause they care about the
community, right?
So I think it's reallyimportant when either longtime
attendees or new folks come intotown meeting with very generous
interpretation that we are allthere because we care about the
(38:52):
community.
And there might be, there willundoubtedly be disagreements
about an individual warrantarticle or the solution to a
problem.
There is space for that, butmaking sure we remember at the
end of the day that people arenot coming in here with an
agenda other than taking care ofeach other, taking care of
their community.
And so I do think that might besomething that gets lost.
(39:13):
I have seen over my, you know,few decades of doing this and a
decade of being an electedofficial and being up at the
front of that room.
Unfortunately, as the state andnational political red rec has
really devolved, I've seen thatimpact in our community.
And it's really hard because Iknow everyone there cares.
(39:36):
And I know sometimes you getvery passionate and worked up
about it.
I try to create a space whereeveryone feels that they can
contribute without beingattacked, without being
demonized, because when we walkout of that gym, we are all
still community members.
We're all still gonna run intoeach other at the coffee shop.
We're gonna be on the sidelinesof our kids' sports games
together.
And we wanna be able to keepthat camaraderie in our town
(39:58):
together.
Because if we fall apart,that's not gonna be good for
anyone either, right?
So it's a lesson that everyonein Concord and DC could learn if
we could just keep modelingthat behavior.
Liz Canada (40:08):
Remember that everyone there is a person.
We're people.
We are all humans.
We should all be treated likepeople.
Right.
And often, you know, our kidsare.
No matter what your backgroundis, honestly, or anything like
that.
Whether you want a streetsweeper or 10,000 brooms, or a
unicorn.
Or a unicorn.
You're still a person.
You should be treated as such.
Sara Persechino (40:28):
Your feelings are valid.
Liz Canada (40:29):
Human decency.
Sara Persechino (40:30):
You may not win the vote, right?
You may not win the vote.
And that's hard.
It is hard to lose.
But that's something that thebig, big body of folks is
deciding.
They can try again next year.
Great.
Liz Canada (40:42):
We're all gonna vote while we can.
Towns, it's happening soon.
Mm-hmm.
Cities, you're in the fall, andthen all of us are right back
in November for all the stateelections as well.
So Liz.
Sara Persechino (40:57):
State elections.
The state primary is inSeptember.
You can't forget the primary.
Liz Canada (41:01):
Okay.
You're so right.
You are so when you're right,you're right.
When you're right, you'reright.
Sara Persechino (41:06):
March, we've got September and then November.
Okay.
My opponent.
Put it on your calendar.
Liz Canada (41:12):
My point was there's lots of voting to be done this
year.
So if you've never voted in NewHampshire before, this is your
year, baby.
You are voting a few times.
It's gonna be great.
Sara Persechino (41:22):
A few times, I hope.
Yeah.
Ask your local moderator.
Ask your local clerk.
Liz Canada (41:26):
Ask a moderator.
Town clerk.
Get to the town clerk's office.
Register to vote if youhaven't.
Now's a good time.
You did great, Sara.
This is great.
Do I hear a motion to adjournthis podcast?
So moved.
Without objection.
Without objection.
Let's call it.
Sara Persechino (41:51):
When I was born in, Bruce Johnson, who is sadly
passed away, but he was themoderator.
Immediately before me, hepassed down the moderator's
gavel.
And I try not to use it exceptto like open and close the
session because again, it'saggressive.
It's aggressive.
And I don't want to use the modvoice.
I don't want to gavel.
I try not to use it, but itdoes feel very nice to hold in
your hand.
Yes, I try only to do public speaking once a
year, you know, in front ofseven other people.
Liz Canada (00:04):
This isn't public speaking.
This is just you and me,chit-chatting.
Nobody else listens to this.
It's just us.
You're listening to NewHampshire Has Issues, and I am
your host, Liz Canada, and mysnowblower is almost working
(00:28):
perfectly, thanks to a littleduct tape.
Today's episode is all aboutyour local elections.
Participating in town meetingor your deliberative session or
casting a ballot for your localcommunity budget is the best way
to participate in directdemocracy.
(00:50):
If you haven't registered tovote yet, now is an excellent
time while you're snowed in tofind your passport or your birth
certificate, as well as anyother documents you may need so
that you can be ready to go toyour town clerk's office or your
city clerk's office toregister.
Check the show notes for moredetails.
And if you need to check yourregistration status just to make
(01:12):
sure you are still on there,all of those links are in the
show notes to help you.
If you would like to supportthe show, you can go to
patreon.com slash nh has issues.
If you have an idea for anepisode, or if you are really
excited because you are votingfor the first time in New
Hampshire this year, send me anemail.
New Hampshire has Issues atgmail.com.
Sara has great advice in thisepisode about bringing a buddy
(01:33):
with you to town meeting.
Your buddy doesn't have to befrom your town.
You guys can just sit together.
It's a public meeting.
We'll talk about that in thisepisode.
It's going to be a few weeksbefore the next episode comes
out.
So in the meantime, for thoseof us who are voting, good job.
And otherwise, thank you forlistening.
Welcome to New Hampshire HasIssues.
The podcast that dares to ask.
(01:54):
Can I have a motion to openthis podcast?
So moved.
All right.
Sara, do you have a tagline forme?
Sara Persechino (02:01):
New Hampshire Has Issues, the podcast that
dares to ask, why are so manypeople in this gym wearing
flannel?
I love that.
Liz Canada (02:08):
And also it could just be people watching a
basketball game.
Could they not?
Sara Persechino (02:12):
No.
At least not in Hopkinton'sgym.
It's the same venue, verydifferent attire.
What does one wear to abasketball game in Hopkinton?
Well, you should be wearingyour team colors, don't you
think?
Liz Canada (02:24):
Are you guys anti-flannel at a basketball
game in Hopkinton?
Sara Persechino (02:27):
Is that what I mean?
There's definitely more flannelat a town meeting.
And I don't know why.
I do not have the answer.
I'll just put it right outthere.
I don't have the answer, butit's tradition and I like it.
And if someone has the answer,they should write in to your
pod.
Send me an email.
Liz Canada (02:43):
New Hampshire has issues at gmail.com.
Why are people wearing flannelat town meeting?
Sara Persechino (02:48):
I think Rebecca Rule has the answer to this,
but I haven't I haven't askedher.
Liz Canada (02:51):
Well we'll get we're gonna get to hold up as they
say on secret lives of MormonWives.
All right, well, my guest todayis the Hopkinton town moderator
and a friend of mine.
She's why are you laughing atthat?
Are you are you not a friend ofmine?
Is this how you're telling me?
On my own body.
Sara Persechino (03:11):
Longtime listener, first-time caller, you
know.
It's great.
Liz Canada (03:14):
All right, so friend and Hopkinton town moderator,
Sara Persechino.
Sara, welcome to the show.
I am so glad that you're here.
Sara Persechino (03:21):
I am grateful you asked me and reluctant to be
here.
Liz Canada (03:26):
That's exactly how I like my guests to feel.
Extremely reluctant to talk tome.
It's perfect.
We're gonna talk about townmeeting.
Specifically, you as amoderator of your town.
Let me start with a simplequestion.
What does a town moderator do?
Simple question.
What do you do as a townmoderator?
Sara Persechino (03:44):
Okay, very simply, broadly overview.
A town moderator is in chargeof voting in a community.
So they are elected toadminister elections and to run
the annual meeting in a town.
So this year there are multipleelections.
We have a town, a stateprimary, and a federal election.
So there are three elections.
Some years it's just the townelection.
(04:06):
So it's different year to year,but broadly we're in charge of
that.
Liz Canada (04:09):
But you're in charge of it.
I know.
You're not gonna like that Iinterrupt you, but I do I am
gonna interrupt you.
Sara Persechino (04:14):
I have like a whole agenda here.
Liz Canada (04:16):
I know.
Sara Persechino (04:17):
I don't know if you know, but in at town
meeting, you have to berecognized by the moderator
before you can speak.
So this is very different, Liz.
I like being in charge a littlebit more.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
That's okay.
Liz Canada (04:29):
But what does it mean to be in charge?
Like, I could stand up in frontof our deliberative session and
pretend that I'm in charge, butthat doesn't actually make me
in charge.
Like, what does it mean to bein charge of it?
Sara Persechino (04:40):
Well, I'm in charge of a town meeting because
the town elected me to do that.
They elected me moderator.
It's a two-year term.
So every two years a moderatoris elected.
And so they have empowered meto do this.
And so I will follow the uhlaws as they are written.
On a recent episode, my friendBrini asked you if you had read
(05:01):
New Hampshire's insurancestatutes.
Are you following up for her tofind out if I have?
Liz Canada (05:06):
I haven't.
So I still still haven't.
All right, there's still time.
Not only have I not, but I'mactively rebelling against
reading them.
Sara Persechino (05:13):
Here's an Easter egg for your listeners.
Sabrina is actually the selectboard chair in Hopkinton.
So we work together quite a bitfor town meeting.
I know all roads lead toHopkinton.
I've been saying it for years.
So I know you didn't read theinsurance statute, but I am
wondering have you ever read thestate statute in relation to a
(05:34):
town moderator?
Liz Canada (05:35):
Okay.
This one feels more likely thatI would do.
This does seem like a thing.
It's a lot shorter.
And yet the answer is no.
Sara Persechino (05:42):
Okay.
I do think just for fun, we'llread it right now because I can
do it so quick and it'lldemystify the whole thing.
Liz Canada (05:49):
Congress Movement Goodlander says read the U.S.
Constitution.
Nick Taylor says read yourzoning ordinances.
Breenie says read the insurancestatutes.
I haven't done any of thosethings.
Terrible former Englishteacher, but you are going to do
the right thing, which is readit out loud to me.
Is that what you're saying?
Sara Persechino (06:07):
I am.
And here's the thing.
I read out loud every warrantarticle at town meeting too,
because I know maybe noteverybody has done their
homework in advance.
And so we'll do a littleread-along.
Okay?
Okay.
So under moderator, duties.
This is it.
The moderator shall preside inthe town meetings, regulate the
business thereof, decidequestions of order, and make a
public declaration of every votepassed and may prescribe rules
(06:29):
of proceeding, but such rulesmay be altered by the town.
So that's it.
Period.
That's the only duty I have.
That's all it spells out in thestate statute for town meeting.
Do you want to get into it?
Liz Canada (06:41):
I do.
Because it sounds like you makepublic declarations, which
sounds very exciting.
You declare things.
You make rules, but then thepeople of your town get to say,
we don't want that rule anymore.
Is that what I just heard too?
Sara Persechino (06:53):
Yeah.
If a majority of them agree.
Yes.
I can be overruled.
Okay.
So the moderator is not a queenor a king.
There are checks.
The ultimate authority at atown meeting is the legislative
body, and the legislative bodyis the voters.
Everyone who's gathered in thatspace, wherever it may be in
Hopkinton, it's our high school,middle school gym.
(07:14):
So the voters who have checkedin and are there for town
meeting, they are the ultimateauthority.
So I set forth the rules that Ithink would help us go through
the session.
And then they can change themat the beginning of the meeting,
at any time during the meeting.
They can do a point of orderand challenge a ruling that I
might make.
And if they get a simplemajority vote, they can overrule
(07:35):
me.
Liz Canada (07:36):
So you create the rules of the day and do you send
them out in advance to everysingle person who lives in
Hopkinton?
How does that work?
How do I know what the rulesare when I show up?
Sara Persechino (07:46):
That's a great question.
So, and it's actually somethingwe're working on because I
think demystifying town meetingand making sure people know how
they can participate is superimportant.
So, past precedent that I havebeen participating in Hopkinton
town meetings, we have not sentthese rules out in advance.
They have been said aloud atthe beginning of the meeting.
I'm currently working with ournewly elected school moderator
(08:08):
to publish our rules ofprocedure on the town website to
make sure people can accessthat before.
Um, I actually will give creditto the Bo town and school
moderator.
So Peter Imse does this and hehas provided a guide shout-out,
great resource there in Bo.
And it pains me to say thatbecause I live in Hopkinton and
in high school we were bitterrivals.
So it is it is difficult togive Bo a shout-out.
(08:31):
So yes, we are going to try tobe more public about what the
rules are because for peoplewho've been going to town
meeting for 20 years, they'vebroadly bend the same rules.
But for someone who may be newto town, who maybe came from a
community that doesn't have atraditional town meeting like we
do, that might be new, andwe're trying to break down the
barriers to participation.
Liz Canada (08:50):
Give me an example of a rule because it sounds very
strict and scary.
Give me, give me one of therules.
Sara Persechino (08:56):
It's not okay.
Some of the things look likewhat happens at the state house.
The state house operates underRobert's rules.
We are not that formal inHoppington.
So we s I specifically say atthe start of the meeting that we
are not bound by Robert'srules.
But we do have a lot of similarprovisions.
Who's Robert?
You know, I don't know.
Uh he probably wore flipflannel.
It probably came from him, butI don't know.
(09:18):
So, rule number one themoderator will not follow
Robert's rules.
He follows.
It's rule number one.
It's important.
Who's gonna oppose that?
Liz Canada (09:28):
Robert himself is gonna show up and be like, now
wait a minute.
I made those rules and I likethem.
Sara Persechino (09:33):
Here's the thing.
We're actually trying to avoidgetting bogged down in the
legislative finaglings andparliamentary procedures that
can happen under Robert's rules,which I know you've witnessed
in the House session.
It can get confusing.
So we're trying to make it alittle simpler.
We've already gone over thatany of these rules can be
overturned.
They can tell me I'm wrong andwe can change them.
(09:54):
Yep.
Okay.
It's how I consider thearticle.
So the select board putstogether the warrant in
Hopkinton.
They say, here are the articlesthat we're going to be voting
on.
And they give that to the town.
They warn the town that this iswhat they're talking about at
town meeting.
And then it's my job to runthrough those.
So I will say, we're going totake these articles in the order
that they're displayed.
If for some reason there is anarticle that I think should be
(10:17):
taken out of order, I'll saythat at the beginning.
So sometimes you'll have a bondvote over $100,000.
And that vote needs a secretballot that's open for an hour.
So I would say, let's do thatfirst so we don't get to it at
the end and then have to stayanother hour just to make sure
everyone gets their chance tovote.
So sometimes we move thingsaround without objection from
the voters.
That's kind of a rule that I ammaking.
(10:37):
So when we go through, we'regonna go step by step.
When we go through the warrant,I will announce the article
number.
The text is displayed in theirtown report.
So everybody gets a printedtown report if they'd like it,
or it's available online.
It's also displayed on a screenat the front of the gym.
And as I said before, I read itout loud because I like to make
sure we've all gotten on thesame page.
(10:58):
So I will read it out loud.
My mouth does get very dry bythe end of the night, but I
think it's important.
It's not required.
And then I'll recognize amember of the select board or a
petitioner, which we'll get intothat later, to move the
adoption of the article.
The motion that is made by aselect board member or the
petitioner must be seconded.
And then the member whopresented it will speak to it.
Then I open up debate.
(11:19):
So anyone who is a registeredvoter is able to speak at a town
meeting.
Liz Canada (11:24):
Anyone a registered voter in your town, yes.
Sara Persechino (11:27):
In your town, yes.
There are other people who arenot registered voters in the
town who are given permission bythe moderator to speak because
they have expertise orinformation that is important.
So a town administrator or atown manager may not live in the
community where they are themanager, but it's important for
them to be able to speak at ameeting.
We've had presentations by thelottery commission that I think
(11:48):
are important when people areconsidering articles.
So without objection fromvoters, non-residents can speak,
but it's more rare.
So if you are a voter and youwant to speak, we just ask that
you either ask for a handheldmic to be brought to you or
approach the mics that we haveset up in the gymnasium to be
recognized.
People have to line up, singlefile order, very, you know, try
to keep it tidy, orderly.
(12:09):
We try, we're trying, and Iwill acknowledge, I will
recognize the person on themember on the floor to speak.
Now, voters have three minutesto speak.
That is a rule that we set up.
It could be overturned, butthat is the rule that we set up
in order to ensure that everyonewho has something to say can
say it without us being therethrough the late hours of the
(12:31):
night, which would not helpanyone.
I have little cards that I handup now, cues like a yellow card
to say you have 30 seconds, youknow, visual cues.
Try to be polite about movingthings around.
And we do have a rule that youcannot speak for a second time
until everyone who's wanted tosay something has spoken.
And that may happen at yourdeliberative session.
Like birthday cake.
Liz Canada (12:51):
Everybody's got to get a piece before you can have
a second piece.
Sara Persechino (12:54):
Exactly.
You can speak again, you justhave to let everybody else have
their turn first.
When you are recognized tospeak, you have to give your
name and address for the record.
It is a public record.
We do have someone taking theminutes that is published in the
town report in the next year.
And then we take the votesmotion by motion.
So typically it will open withlike, here's the article on the
budget, and someone makes amotion to pass it.
(13:15):
Someone seconds that motion.
We have a debate.
Voters might ask questions.
All of the comments andquestions have to be directed to
the moderator.
So it's like, everyone'stalking to you.
Everyone's talking to me.
And it is confusing.
That's, I think, the thing Ihave to remind folks of the most
is that this is not a back andforth debate between voters or
between a voter and the selectboard.
The questions come through meand then I identify who should
(13:38):
answer that question.
And again, it's all abouttrying to keep order.
You'll notice the same thing onthe floor of the New Hampshire
House of Representatives.
When people speak, they speakMr.
Speaker.
Mr.
Liz Canada (13:47):
Speaker.
Yes.
Exactly.
Mr.
Speaker.
Sara Persechino (13:49):
And my first year of an in-person meeting, I
did have someone ask what theyshould call me because Mr.
Speaker didn't sound right.
I was the first woman elected.
So yes, we had to go over that.
I'd like you to call me LadySpeaker.
Liz Canada (14:01):
Thank you.
Sara Persechino (14:02):
Lady Speaker?
Miss Speaker.
Liz Canada (14:05):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sara Persechino (14:06):
Yes.
So we did have to clear that upin Hoffkington.
Liz Canada (14:09):
First order of business.
What do we call you?
Sara Persechino (14:11):
What do we call you?
It's, you know, important.
So it seems very dry, but youknow, things get things get
moving.
All right.
Liz Canada (14:18):
When I had Nico Papaconcetis, who's our Exeter
Select Board Chair, we talkedabout a few things that could be
on a warrant.
So uh it could be that you'retrying to purchase a new street
sweeper in your community.
So you're saying at townmeeting, you, town moderator,
would read what would be on thewarrant allowed to the whole
(14:39):
gymnasium full of people wearingflannel.
And then you open it up andpeople can go to the mic and
say, I think street sweepers areincredible.
Here's why we should pass it.
And then somebody behind themcould say, I think we should
manually sweep everything withbrooms.
And it could go back and forthlike that.
That's what you'retheoretically.
It goes theoretically.
Theoretically.
Sara Persechino (14:59):
It goes like that.
I do encourage people to speakfrom eye feeling statements.
So to share their beliefs,their questions, their
perspective without disparagingothers.
I see my role as moderator asbeing a little bit of a mom.
So trying to regulate thatdebate between siblings in a
healthy way where everyone canfeel heard without feeling hurt,
right?
Sometimes I will have to remindfolks not to ascribe motive to
(15:20):
someone else just because theymight have a difference of
opinion on how we get to asolution on an article or an
issue that they need to brain itin a little bit.
And sometimes you have, youknow, just people who shout out
from the crowd, that's notright, or something.
And then you have to say,please stop.
Please stop.
You can come up to amicrophone, get in line.
Liz Canada (15:39):
Thank you.
Thanks for watching.
Everyone can say things aloud.
So after this debate around thebudget or around getting a new
fire truck or whatever it mightbe, how do you take the vote?
Like you're all in thisgymnasium.
Yeah.
Sara Persechino (15:53):
How does it work?
So if there are no morespeakers, I will say, like
anyone else wish to speak onthis motion.
If there's no one, I'll say,all right, without objection,
we'll go into the voting mode.
And then I will say, all thosein favor of article three say
aye, the ayes will speak.
All those opposed say nay, thenays will say nay.
And hopefully I can tell fromthe ayes and the nays what the
(16:16):
vote is.
If I can't, then we haveoptions.
So we could move to a standingvote or raising your hand for a
vote.
Or if I really can't tell, andif that doesn't work, we could
also move to a secret ballotvote, which takes a little bit
more time.
There's also a provision in NewHampshire State statute that
five registered voters who arepresent at the time can have a
(16:37):
written request for a secretballot on any article.
So if five voters who are thereand present think that it
should be a secret ballot voteon the budget, on that street
sweeper you were talking about,then I have to open up a secret
ballot.
Some of those things arerequired by statute.
Like I was saying before, anybond over $100,000 has to be a
secret ballot vote, has to beopen for an hour.
(16:58):
So then it changes, it's alittle bit different.
But yeah, instead of having awritten ballot that you vote on
on that second Tuesday in March,we are doing it all in person,
just like the legislature doeswhen they vote on their bills.
Liz Canada (17:11):
Okay, Sara, I live in Exeter.
We don't, we don't do it likethat.
Like I don't want to be thatperson, but that's not how we do
it.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Uh why?
Why are we doing thingsdifferently in Exeter from
Hopkinton?
Sara Persechino (17:25):
Because in Exeter, y'all adopted what is
commonly referred to as SB2.
So you have a different form ofgovernment where you have a
deliberative session.
What's voted on at thedeliberative session goes on to
an official ballot, anAustralian ballot, I believe
they call it.
And then you vote on that.
That doesn't sound American.
What?
Listen, I don't know.
(17:47):
It's SB2.
I'm pretty sure that's whatit's called.
Wow.
Oh.
It's the official ballotreferendum system.
Your community voted to moveaway from the traditional
meeting and to have that SB2voting.
And so on March 10th, thisyear, the second Tuesday of
every March, you will vote oneverything.
But there will have been agroup of voters who got
together, maybe in a gym, maybein an auditorium.
(18:07):
Auditorium make the finalballot.
So you make the warrant final.
The select board can onlypropose what they want, but you
can adjust that at thedeliberative.
But when you go for theofficial ballot voting, it's
just a yes or no, right?
So at the town meeting, you cango back and forth and amend
things as much as you want untilyou get to something that the
consensus says eye on.
Liz Canada (18:29):
I am suddenly having strong feelings about which way
I think it should go, whetherit's the way Exeter does it or
the way Hopkins does it.
I'll keep it to myself.
Sara Persechino (18:37):
I think you should come to Hopkinton and
check it out.
It'll be great because youdon't have to be a registered
voter in a town to go to theirannual meeting.
You can just go watch the show.
You just hang and observe.
Because it's a public meeting.
You can go.
You can't vote, but you canwatch.
It's fun.
It's fun.
You'll like it.
It's fun.
Go to a town meeting.
Town meeting.
Cities don't do this.
(18:57):
Social event of the year, youknow?
Liz Canada (19:00):
Wear your best flannel or your worst.
Wear whatever you want.
This is uh this is veryinteresting because what I think
I am hearing you say is that ifyou live in a town that has a
traditional town meeting day,you don't like go and pick up a
ballot and fill it out and thenhand it in.
That's not what you're doing onyour town meeting.
Sara Persechino (19:20):
So we still have right, we still have ballot
voting.
So we have the ballot votingportion, articles one and two,
which would be the election ofofficers, all of our officers
for the school and town getelected on a traditional paper
on that paper ballot that youare talking about.
And zoning ordinances, articletwo, would get voted on on the
paper ballot.
And that happens on the samesecond Tuesday that you're going
(19:43):
to go vote.
But the rest of our articlesare voted on at that business
session, is what we call it.
The business session of thetown meeting.
This is so fascinating.
Why do we do things like this?
Where did this come from?
So it started, if we want thehistory, the first town meeting.
The first town meeting was heldin the 1630s in Massachusetts
(20:07):
in Dorchester.
Liz Canada (20:09):
Oh, massing up New Hampshire with Town Meeting Day.
Thank goodness.
Okay.
Yep.
We're doing it just likeMassachusetts.
Yeah.
Love it.
Sara Persechino (20:18):
The men were coming together, they were
divvying up their land, and thenslowly New Hampshire adopted
this form of government.
They always met in March.
And can you guess why theywould have met in March in the
1600s, Liz?
No, I cannot.
Because we were in agrariansociety and the farmers weren't
planting their crops yet.
So they had some time on theirhands, right?
Liz Canada (20:38):
Like I mean, it feels like a few other months
that it could have been.
Sara Persechino (20:42):
Well, you can't do it in January.
You could have two feet ofsnow.
How are you getting a townmeeting?
It's tricky.
So, you know, we have kept thatsame traditional timeline.
I'm not sure there's actually atime in our month or week or
year that isn't busy at thispoint for a society.
It's very different than 1600sNew Hampshire, but that has
stayed the tradition.
(21:02):
Some towns have moved away toan April or May meeting.
Let's not get into that rightnow.
Let's just stay with March.
Liz Canada (21:09):
It's too much.
I like to say, generallyspeaking, towns vote in the
spring and cities vote in thefall.
Generally speaking, I'm suresomeone's gonna write in and
say, actually, Liz, I know.
But generally speaking,springtime, town, fall time,
cities.
(21:29):
Because of the 1600s.
Sara Persechino (21:32):
Yeah.
Well, you know, I know you lovethe executive council and
talking about that.
So it's, you know, similarholdovers from colonial.
Liz Canada (21:40):
That's one way to put it.
What's what's on the warrantfor Hopkinton?
Let me hear about some examplesso that we can use some here.
Sara Persechino (21:46):
The biggest thing that happens every year in
a town meeting is the budget.
So if you are a fan of directdemocracy and having a say in
how your money is spent, youwant to go vote at your town
meeting.
Meeting or deliberative sessioneach March, right?
Because that's how the localleaders are deciding how your
dollars are getting spent andyou where you can have the
(22:08):
biggest impact.
So that's the biggest thing.
Liz Canada (22:11):
So you say a warrant, somebody goes up and
they talk about it and they'relike, actually, Madam Moderator,
I want to change this.
I want to amend it.
How does that work?
Sara Persechino (22:19):
Yep.
And that's the higher motionwould be a motion to amend.
If you have a motion to passsomething, you can motion to
amend, that would be the motionin order.
And so you have to get yoursecond again.
Um, if it's a complicatedmotion, I ask folks to write it
down.
So I make sure I have itaccurate for the record.
But it has to be related towhat's in the article because
the select board is required topublicly post the warrant and
(22:43):
properly warn all the voters ofwhat's going to be voted on at
town meeting.
Liz Canada (22:47):
Do you say warn to warn them?
Sara Persechino (22:50):
To warn them.
Yes.
You have to be properly warnedto be notified of the decisions
that will be made.
Uh ask Robert.
I don't know.
Liz Canada (22:58):
Warn?
This is the word we use.
How about we just notify?
How about we just give people aheads up of what's happening?
Where are we warning people?
Sara Persechino (23:06):
I mean, those are all synonyms.
You're an English teacher, Ithink.
Liz Canada (23:09):
No, I know, but warrant has like a negative
connotation.
It's like, why is Jacob Marleyshowing up to tell you that
there's a warrant article?
Sara Persechino (23:16):
Like Okay, fine.
The select board is justletting you know what they're
gonna talk about and vote on.
So you can't change it.
So you can't have a motion, oryou can't have a warrant article
that says we're going to voteto purchase the street sweeper.
Let's go back to your streetsweeper.
Liz Canada (23:30):
I love the street sweeper.
Sara Persechino (23:31):
All right, maybe someone doesn't want to
buy a street sweeper.
That's fine.
But a motion to change it tosay that the town should buy a
unicorn would not, you know, youcan't do that.
Liz Canada (23:42):
If that was the proposal, I would be interested
in that.
Sara Persechino (23:45):
We would have a lot more people at town
meeting, but you can't do thatbecause no one knew that there
would be a vote on a unicorn,right?
So no.
But here's the thing.
Even though I say that, eventhough I give that advice as a
moderator, if the majority ofvoters still wanted to change
that article, remember they'rethe ultimate authority.
So I can tell them this has nolegal binding.
(24:07):
You can't make the town buy aunicorn.
Liz Canada (24:10):
So a street sweeper warrant article could be amended
to say, well, we don't want topurchase a whole street sweeper,
but we do want to purchase abroom for every household in
Exeter.
Sara Persechino (24:23):
And so I make a motion that I would love to
hear the conversation between amoderator and the legal counsel
present at that meeting aboutthat.
Liz Canada (24:33):
If everybody just did their part and go out into
the street and just sweepindividuals.
I've seen happen that'sindividualism.
Sara Persechino (24:42):
No, no comment.
Um what I have seen happen isthat people would add the
language to vote to study thepurchase of something.
So, like, well, maybe bring usmore information next year.
Liz Canada (24:53):
Yeah.
Sara Persechino (24:53):
That's something I've seen.
Some of the more colorfuldebates that I've seen in
Hoppington have taken place onissues related to recycling.
So we had years ago, and I havebeen going to town meetings for
years and years, but I startedgoing as a reporter for a local
newspaper, and the debate ofthat time, which was a while
(25:15):
ago, was about pay by bag, a payby bag program, which would
require you to purchase acertain color bag that you would
put your trash in.
Hopkinton had it.
And then for years and yearsand years after it was adopted
in Hopkinton, there was apetition warrant article on the
um warrant every year to rescindthe pay by bag program.
(25:37):
So that got a lot of play formore than 10 years.
That petition warrant articledidn't actually pass ever, but
last year the town put forward aproposal to get rid of the pay
by bag program because it didn'tincrease recycling.
We have a tricky situation inHopkinton, and this will be the
most controversial thing I talkabout.
So, dear listeners, please knowI am the moderator.
(25:58):
I do not take a position on anyof these articles, and I do not
even vote at town meeting.
I just don't.
I'm only there to help you allthough.
Liz Canada (26:05):
Sara Persechino, not a voter.
Got it.
Sara Persechino (26:07):
Not a not a voter.
Liz Canada (26:08):
Not a voter.
Sara Persechino (26:09):
This is a fun fact that, like Speaker of the
House, the moderator can vote tomake a tie or break a tie.
But I personally feel that thatis the least appropriate time
for me as neutral moderatortrying to facilitate a vote for
everyone else to weigh in.
I'm not elected with a partylike the speaker is.
I'm not affiliated with anyoneon the floor.
(26:31):
I just don't think that wouldbe a good, a good look for my
neutrality.
So I don't vote at all at townmeeting.
Liz Canada (26:37):
That's the clip I'm pulling.
I don't vote at all.
Just that by itself.
Sara Persechino (26:43):
You do not vote at town meetings.
So my little voter stickernever has the color check marks
on it because I don't voteduring the town meeting.
I do check in, make sureeveryone knows I was there.
We need fourth graders to makestickers for the moderators.
Liz Canada (26:55):
And it's like, I didn't vote.
I moderated.
I moderated checkmarks.
Sara Persechino (27:00):
Okay.
Oh.
Damn.
So the town actually, theselect board, put forward an
article last year to rescindthat due to ineffectiveness.
And it's tricky because theHopkinton has a shared transfer
station with our neighboringtown of Webster, and Webster
didn't have pay by bag.
So I think there was somelogistical struggles that
hindered it.
But yeah, so now we don't havepay by bag.
(27:21):
But that was a hot topic everyyear that we talked about that.
One of the other things thatcomes up often, and I think
maybe almost every year thatI've been moderator is a
petition warrant article toadopt Exeter's form of
government, SB2.
So to move to the officialpaper ballot form of voting.
And that has not passed,obviously, because we're doing
(27:41):
town meeting.
Liz Canada (27:42):
I want to go back to the pay by bag situation.
Oh no.
Do you all now have like a feeto have your trash taken away?
What do you do now?
So if you don't have the bluebags as we do, what do you do?
Sara Persechino (27:55):
Well, we had green bags.
Hoppington does not havecurbside pickups.
So you have to pay a hauler.
Honey, we are a very smallcommunity.
What?
And trust, trust that thestudies have been done and it is
not financially feasible.
So we have private haulers, oryou bring your own waste to the
transfer station.
So that is how you do it.
(28:15):
And now it's just absorbed bythe property taxes.
Whereas those funds were offsetby the revenue from the bags.
Now that whole cost is borne bythe property taxpayer directly
through the property taxes.
Liz Canada (28:27):
I just learned so much in this last moment of that
you have to haul your own.
Sara Persechino (28:32):
Yeah, but we have a great transfer station.
The folks there who run it areawesome.
And there's a lovely littleswap shop.
You can find some real greatstuff at the transfer station if
you go first thing on a Friday.
Liz Canada (28:42):
I don't even know where to go from here with that
information.
I don't know.
I don't even know.
Sara Persechino (28:46):
That's it.
That's the pod.
We're done.
Maybe you should have someonewho runs a transfer station on
the pod.
Liz Canada (28:52):
Oh, I so should.
Sara Persechino (28:54):
Because trash is a bit of an issue in in New
Hampshire.
I it's I won't speak out ofterms.
I don't know a lot about it,but I've heard it's an issue.
Big time.
Liz Canada (29:01):
As moderator, what do you look forward to the most
for town meeting day?
Do you call it town meetingday?
Am I saying the wrong thing?
This is like when I was talkingto Nick and I kept saying
zoning committee, and he's like,that's wrong, but you keep
saying it wrong.
Sara Persechino (29:15):
Zoning board.
Liz Canada (29:16):
Zoning board.
Zoning board.
Sara Persechino (29:17):
I don't call it town meeting day.
I just call it town meeting.
Town meeting.
Yeah.
Do you do you call it electionday or just the elections?
I don't know.
It's election day, right?
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Liz Canada (29:28):
We have that.
Sara Persechino (29:28):
But I guess I don't say it's just town
meeting.
We also, our town meetingdoesn't happen during the day
now either.
Like the business sessionhappens at night now, so it
wouldn't be town meeting day.
Liz Canada (29:39):
Election after dark.
What do you most look forwardto when it comes to town
meetingslash election day?
Sara Persechino (29:47):
Okay, I know that I said this earlier and
maybe a little tongue-in-cheek,but truly it is often the social
event of the year.
So many community members arecoming out who you may not see
at other times or you haven'tseen for a while.
You know, getting to sit withyour I I would prefer, honestly,
to be sitting.
I love school districtmeetings, sitting with my
friends, observing, eating GirlScout cookies.
(30:09):
It's a little harder to do fromthe rostrum because everyone's
looking at you.
You know, you don't want cookiein your teeth while you're
moderating, get your knittingout, sitting in your flannel.
It's just like the vibes aregood at town meeting, I think.
It's what a pure wholesomething to engage in, right?
Where you are going and you arecharting the path forward for
your town.
And it's truly an honor to be apart of that, even if I find it
(30:30):
quite stressful to be runningthe show, so to speak.
But it is, it does start torestore your faith in humanity
and can get that many peoplewith disparate opinions to work
together to work through someproblems, come up with some
solutions.
It's not a perfect system, butI do think it's worked fairly
well for a few hundred years.
It is the most direct form ofdemocracy that most of us will
(30:54):
participate in in our lifetime,right?
You are the legislator, you arethe ultimate authority.
And that is pretty cool thatyou can do that.
It is a great form of directdemocracy, but you do have to
use it, right?
It's a muscle you have to use,you have to participate in, and
you get what you put into it,right?
Like if you want toparticipate, you you can.
(31:15):
You register to vote, you go,you show up, do a little bit of
homework, hang out, cast yourvote, and you get a say, right?
I recognize there are there aresome hurdles to participating
in an annual meeting in thetraditional town meeting.
And so certainly open totalking with folks about how we
make it more accessible.
In Hopkinton, we have theNational Honor Society that
offers childcare.
(31:35):
We have lots of groups thatsell food during the day or
evening, depending off at schoolor town, um, to try to make it
easier for folks to come.
But I recognize that, like inour society in this day and age,
you know, we're not all farmerswaiting to sew our crops.
We all have different workhours.
Our kids have silly schedulesthat keep us out all the time.
(31:57):
So we want to go to theirsports games and there are
complex.
But to the extent that it ispossible to be able to
participate, I think is very isa very special thing.
Liz Canada (32:06):
I think when people think about elections, they
think about voting forpresident.
That's the thing that they feelmost comfortable about.
But we have the most impact atour local election when there
may be 800 people in the room.
Your vote among 800 people isextremely powerful to impact
what's going on in your owncommunity.
Sara Persechino (32:26):
And on top of that, it's not just one vote out
of 800, right?
You have the opportunity atthat traditional town meeting to
speak to your fellow voters,right?
I do think that there are somepeople who come into town
meeting, they already know howthey're going to vote on
everything.
But some people go in thereunsure how they feel on a
particular warrant article andthey're looking to learn.
They're asking questionsbecause they want to understand
(32:47):
an issue.
They're listening to theircommunity members, some who may
have more experience, more timein the town, to suss out how
they feel on an issue.
I know there are people whochange their mind at a meeting,
right?
You come in thinking you'regonna vote yes on a budget, but
then maybe you change your mindor the other way around.
I think the fact that it isthis living, breathing thing,
(33:08):
you're not going into a ballotbooth all of a sudden by
yourself and getting to Article2 and realizing you don't
actually know what any of thezoning ordinance amendments are
and trying to ask your neighbor,and then I come over and tell
you to stop talking while youhave a ballot in your hand, you
know?
You get to talk to yourneighbors, you get to talk that
through and do that homework onthe on the ground while it's
(33:29):
happening, which I think is isreally special and very
different than the ballotvoting.
Liz Canada (33:34):
I think what's important for folks to know
before they go to deliberativesession or town meeting is that
you don't have to know what's onthe warrant already.
There are gonna be peoplethere.
Like that's the really nicepart about what I'm hearing from
you, Sara, town meeting and fordeliberative session is that
the moderator will read it outloud.
There will be people from yourcommunity standing up to talk
(33:57):
about it.
So like you don't have to knowanything before you get there to
be able to participate.
Sara Persechino (34:02):
If that feels like a safe space for people to
jump in going into a meeting,not knowing anything, great.
More power to you.
But if that, like that wouldfeel intimidating to me to walk
into a room and not knowanything or feel like I was
prepared.
And so I think the other thingthat folks should know is that
like we are not strangers in thecommunity, right?
Like your moderator, yourclerk, your select board
(34:24):
members, we're all listed.
Like we're publicly electedofficials and we are happy to
answer any questions.
So whenever the town clerk'soffice is open, if you have
questions, call in, stop in.
You got to register your dogsoon anyway.
You know, make it a twofer, askabout the meeting, you know,
get some of that information andthey'll tell you how to make
sure you're registered to vote,when it's happening, where you
(34:45):
can find the warrant.
Hopefully, all towns make iteasy to find that information on
their website too.
So building out the informationabout how you vote, how you
register, how you look at whatthe warrant is.
We put sample ballots up on thewebsite, right?
We put the warrant up on thewebsite so that people can see
that before every town meetingis different because every town
(35:07):
is different and every townmoderator is different.
So the state really doesn't setout tough strictures on how a
town meeting is run.
It is a process that is set upby the local voters by the
moderator.
And so it can look differenttown to town.
So it's so important to knowwhat it's gonna look like when
you go in there because themoderator in your town might not
read every warrant article outloud.
(35:27):
That's not required.
So they may not do that.
Yeah, that's true.
If you were expecting that tohappen and it doesn't happen,
you might feel a little bitconfused.
I'd also really encourage youto find maybe a friend or
someone you know who has gone toa meeting before and just sit
with them and maybe you can askthem questions throughout, like,
oh, what's happening now?
You know, like totally.
I got thrown into my firstmeeting when I was a baby
(35:50):
reporter.
I think I might have still beenin high school working for the
local paper.
But there's actually likethere's a family history.
My grandfather was a schoolmoderator, he was a town
moderator in Washington.
And so there's I never knewhim.
He died before I was born, so Inever went to a meeting where
he was presiding.
But that is, you know, a thingthat I grew up knowing.
And so that service isimportant.
And I know just from storiesand just from his obituary, that
(36:14):
like making sure everyone inhis community could go vote and
knew when to vote, that was themost important thing.
More than how he felt the townshould vote on anything.
It was that everybody who couldvote had the chance and knew
how to do that.
And encouraging everybody toget there, I think is the most
important thing.
I am so happy when we have aline out the door at 5.45 PM
(36:34):
because people are checking in.
It's a little stressful to tryto get everybody in, but it does
make my heart very happybecause you know you've like set
up a system where people cancome and participate.
And hopefully that that comesto fruition this year, too.
It takes a big effort, I thinkis one thing that would be
really, really important tostress, Liz, is that I might be
the moderator.
I might be tasked with being incharge of it, but it is not a
(36:56):
one-person show at all.
I have two assistant moderatorswho help me.
We have the town clerk whohelps set up, the assistant town
clerk, the supervisors of thechecklist are running check-in.
The town administrator does somuch prep work to get all of the
information out to voters toget make sure that I have the
information I need from theselect board.
We have the buildings andgrounds crew at the high school
(37:17):
and our public works departmentfolks who help set up for town
meeting.
We've got the sound person thatwe hire who's someone I went to
high school with.
You know, uh, as we know fromthe setup of the show, sound is
not my forte.
I should not be in charge ofthat at all, but it's very
important.
You want to make sure peoplecan hear.
We live stream our meeting, sowe've got to make sure that that
(37:38):
is running.
So if someone needs to be athome with a kid or a relative
who may be sick, but they wantto be listening for when it's
time to come vote, you know,they can be following along at
home, um, especially on thosesecret ballot votes and the ones
that require to be open for anhour.
You know, there is some time ifparents need to switch off with
that care.
We are trying, like I said,it's not a perfect system.
(37:58):
There are always improvements.
Liz Canada (37:59):
I never know if I say this on the podcast or just
everywhere else in my life, butso much of what happens in our
state, it's run by volunteers.
So yes, you might get paid afew hundred bucks a year.
State reps get paid a hundredbucks a year, but it's
essentially volunteers.
It's people who are committed,as you are, Sara, to making sure
that people can vote andtherefore will vote.
(38:21):
You make it as accessible forthem as possible.
Vote while you can, everybody.
Sara Persechino (38:25):
Can I build off of that though?
Because I had some things thatI wanted to make sure I said.
And I was so I want to buildoff that.
Liz Canada (38:30):
Yes, of course.
Sara Persechino (38:30):
So it is important to remember like all
of the secret ballot counters,all of the supervisors, we are
all volunteers.
Yes, we might get a little bitof a stipend, but at the end of
the day, like we have steppedup.
Your fellow voters are therebecause they care about the
community, right?
So I think it's reallyimportant when either longtime
attendees or new folks come intotown meeting with very generous
interpretation that we are allthere because we care about the
(38:52):
community.
And there might be, there willundoubtedly be disagreements
about an individual warrantarticle or the solution to a
problem.
There is space for that, butmaking sure we remember at the
end of the day that people arenot coming in here with an
agenda other than taking care ofeach other, taking care of
their community.
And so I do think that might besomething that gets lost.
(39:13):
I have seen over my, you know,few decades of doing this and a
decade of being an electedofficial and being up at the
front of that room.
Unfortunately, as the state andnational political red rec has
really devolved, I've seen thatimpact in our community.
And it's really hard because Iknow everyone there cares.
(39:36):
And I know sometimes you getvery passionate and worked up
about it.
I try to create a space whereeveryone feels that they can
contribute without beingattacked, without being
demonized, because when we walkout of that gym, we are all
still community members.
We're all still gonna run intoeach other at the coffee shop.
We're gonna be on the sidelinesof our kids' sports games
together.
And we wanna be able to keepthat camaraderie in our town
(39:58):
together.
Because if we fall apart,that's not gonna be good for
anyone either, right?
So it's a lesson that everyonein Concord and DC could learn if
we could just keep modelingthat behavior.
Liz Canada (40:08):
Remember that everyone there is a person.
We're people.
We are all humans.
We should all be treated likepeople.
Right.
And often, you know, our kidsare.
No matter what your backgroundis, honestly, or anything like
that.
Whether you want a streetsweeper or 10,000 brooms, or a
unicorn.
Or a unicorn.
You're still a person.
You should be treated as such.
Sara Persechino (40:28):
Your feelings are valid.
Liz Canada (40:29):
Human decency.
Sara Persechino (40:30):
You may not win the vote, right?
You may not win the vote.
And that's hard.
It is hard to lose.
But that's something that thebig, big body of folks is
deciding.
They can try again next year.
Great.
Liz Canada (40:42):
We're all gonna vote while we can.
Towns, it's happening soon.
Mm-hmm.
Cities, you're in the fall, andthen all of us are right back
in November for all the stateelections as well.
So Liz.
Sara Persechino (40:57):
State elections.
The state primary is inSeptember.
You can't forget the primary.
Liz Canada (41:01):
Okay.
You're so right.
You are so when you're right,you're right.
When you're right, you'reright.
Sara Persechino (41:06):
March, we've got September and then November.
Okay.
My opponent.
Put it on your calendar.
Liz Canada (41:12):
My point was there's lots of voting to be done this
year.
So if you've never voted in NewHampshire before, this is your
year, baby.
You are voting a few times.
It's gonna be great.
Sara Persechino (41:22):
A few times, I hope.
Yeah.
Ask your local moderator.
Ask your local clerk.
Liz Canada (41:26):
Ask a moderator.
Town clerk.
Get to the town clerk's office.
Register to vote if youhaven't.
Now's a good time.
You did great, Sara.
This is great.
Do I hear a motion to adjournthis podcast?
So moved.
Without objection.
Without objection.
Let's call it.
Sara Persechino (41:51):
When I was born in, Bruce Johnson, who is sadly
passed away, but he was themoderator.
Immediately before me, hepassed down the moderator's
gavel.
And I try not to use it exceptto like open and close the
session because again, it'saggressive.
It's aggressive.
And I don't want to use the modvoice.
I don't want to gavel.
I try not to use it, but itdoes feel very nice to hold in
your hand.
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