March 20, 2020 • 24 mins
Learn how NINDS monitors its portfolio from the Director of Science Policy and Planning, Dr. Paul Scott, Policy Analyst Dr. Sophia Jeon, and Program Director Dr. Anna Taylor.
Building Up the Nerve is a podcast from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke for neuroscience trainees that takes you through the life cycle of a grant from idea to award at NINDS with the people who make it happen. We know that applying for NIH funding can be daunting, but we’re here to help—it’s our job!
This episode has been edited since its original publication.
Transcript: http://ninds.buzzsprout.com/558574/2896015-episode-12-managing-the-ninds-portfolio
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Lauren (00:02):
Welcome to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders
and Stroke's Building Up the Nerve,a podcast for neuroscience trainees
that takes you through the life cycleof a grant from idea to award at NINDS
with the people who make it happen.
We know that applying for NIH fundingcan be daunting, but we're here to help.
It's our job.
Hi, I'm Lauren Ullrich, ascientific program manager at NINDS
Marguerite Matthews (00:25):
And I'm Marguerite Matthews a Health Program
Specialist at NINDS and we're yourhost today for Building Up the Nerve.
In the previous episode, wediscussed how NINDS monitors
grant performance after the award.
Lauren U (00:38):
And for this, our last episode, we're going to talk about
how NINDS monitors its portfolio asa whole and acts as a responsible
steward of taxpayer money and howit sets its funding and priorities.
And as always, I want to state thedisclaimer that everything we talk
about may only be relevant for NINDS.
So if you're applying to a differentNIH institute, it's always best to
(01:01):
talk with them about their policies.
Marguerite Mat (01:07):
Joining us today are Dr Paul Scott, Director of the
Office of Science Policy and Planning,Dr Sophia Jeon, a health science policy
analyst, and Dr Anna Taylor, programdirector in the office of the Director
and Division of Extramural Activities.
Paul Scott (01:23):
Hello.
My name is Paul Scott.
I'm the director of the Office of SciencePolicy and Planning here at NINDS.
Our office has several importantresponsibilities for the institute.
We coordinate NINDS interactionswith Congress, which of course,
is important because Congressis where we get our funding.
My office coordinates strategic planningand prioritization activities as well as
evaluation activities for the institutes.
(01:44):
And we also help out with alot of portfolio analysis.
I've been an NIH since 1996 and atNINDS since 1998.
Before coming here, I actuallycame to NIH as a AAAS science
and technology policy fellow.
Prior to that, I was a postdocin a circadian neurobiology
lab in San Antonio, Texas.
(02:06):
In terms of hobbies, I just reallyenjoy spending time with my family,
and I'd like to listen to music, allkinds of different popular music.
Soph (02:14):
Hi, I'm Sofia Jeon and I'm a health science policy analyst in the
office of Science Policy and Planning.
So Paul is my boss.
So as Paul mentioned, I do a lot ofthings related to congressional affairs.
I help make sure that NINDScommunicates with Congress in
an effective and timely manner.
I've been at NIH since 2014 andI've been at NINDS since 2016.
(02:38):
So a little over three years now.
I was a postdoc before I came to NINDS.
So I was a postdoc at theNational Eye Institute, which
is one of the institutes at NIH.
I'm actually an immunologist by training.
So I studied autoimmunediseases in the eye.
I thought neuroscience is cooler,so I jumped onto neuroscience, I
(03:02):
would say my hobby is keeping my 20month old son entertained, that's
how I usually spend my time, butsometimes that can feel like work.
So my hobby in the truest senseof the word is probably reading.
Anna Taylor (03:18):
Hi, I'm Anna Taylor, as Lauren said.
I'm a program director in thedivision of extramural activities.
My job is different thanmany program directors.
I don't manage a grant portfolio, butwhat I do is manage a program called the
NIH NeuroBioBank, which is a network ofsix brain and tissue repositories that
(03:40):
collect and distribute brain tissuefor use by the research community.
But in addition to that, I overseea couple of more general programs.
I oversee the NINDS R35 program, whichis a program that is relatively new,
and it's designed to support all of aninvestigator's NINDS research under one
(04:01):
funding vehicle and that will hopefullylimit the ability for researchers to
constantly have to be applying for grants.
And the last part of my job is workingin extramural policy and analysis.
So I do a lot of portfolio analysisthat are involved in policy development.
(04:22):
So, for example, one recent policy thatwe released was a modification of our
special council review policy, whichserves to limit the amount of funding
any one particular investigator can have.
So there was a lot of pre analysisthat went into the development
of that policy, and I also workedto develop and implement that.
(04:42):
I've been at NIH for about 12 years.
And like Paul, I came to NIH as a AAASscience and technology policy fellow.
Um, prior to that, I was a postdocat Wake Forest University and
studying motor neuron degeneration.
So I'm also a neuroscientist.
And, um, one of my hobbies outsideof the office is traveling.
(05:06):
And, you know, unfortunately, lifedoesn't allow me to do it as much as
I'd like, But I love to see all partsof the country and the world and I
particularly have a fondness for beaches.
Marguerite Matthews (05:24):
So will one of you tell us how NINDS
manages its research portfolio?
Anna Taylor (05:29):
In general NINDS has a number of different ways
that it manages its portfolio.
But for most grants that come inunsolicited and that is not as part
of any specific topic area that we'veissued a call for applications on,
NINDS set a payline and funds nearlyall of the applications that get a
percentile score within that payline.
(05:50):
For example, in fiscalyear 18 our pay line
is set to the 16 percentile.
If you submitted an applicationthat scored at the 16 percentile
or better, chances are highthat you would have been funded.
In general, we fund all R01s,R21s, and R03s in that way.
There are a couple of exceptions to thispayline, including the funding level
for early stage investigators, thosepeople that are within 10 years of their
(06:13):
terminal degree and haven't gotten an R01.
The pay line for early stage investigatorsas much higher because that's a priority
area that's been identified by NIH.
There are sometimes other priorityareas that have been identified and
they may have higher paylines too.
And one example of that is Alzheimer'sdisease and related dementias.
(06:33):
And that sort of leads to the secondway that we manage our portfolio.
Sometimes we don't get to decide.
Sometimes high priority areas wereidentified for us by Congress or by
the administration and we're chargedwith developing programs that are
responsive to those priorities.
This is currently true for, like Isaid, for Alzheimer's disease and
(06:54):
related dementias, is it's true forthe BRAIN Initiative, and also, most
recently, the HEAL Initiative, whichis focused on the opioid crisis.
In each of these cases, significantfunds have been directed towards these
specific areas to catalyze the field.
But at heart NINDS is a scienceorganization and most of our program staff
(07:14):
are scientists, and as a result, we'dlike to take a scientific and data-driven
approach to how we manage our resources.
So one of the ways that we do that isthrough the use of portfolio analysis
to get a better understanding of theresearch we fund so we can identify
areas that require additional attention.
One example of this is an analysis ofthe general areas of science that we
(07:35):
fund across the research spectrum, frombasic science to clinical research.
And a systematic evaluation ofour portfolio we learned that
our investment in basic researchdeclined significantly between
1997 and 2011 going from 51 to 21%.
As a result, we've made significantefforts to bring this number higher
(07:55):
through FOAs targeted to basic researchand also by communicating to the
research community that basic researchdoes great in review, better than any
other type of research we analyzed.
Laur (08:05):
So how can the public find out more about this process, about what
we're funding and what our priorities are?
Pa (08:15):
In terms of finding out what we're funding terms of specific grants.
There is a portion of the NIH websitecalled Reporter, which you can look up
funding by any number of parameters byarea, by year, by area of the country.
And so that's a really good way.
It's publicly available and allowsyou to do a lot of different types
(08:37):
of analyses, and that's a good way ofknowing terms of the grant portfolio.
If you're interested in applyingfor a specific type of research, the
NIH Guide for Grants and Contractslists all of what are called FOAs,
funding opportunity announcements.
That's a good source to also look for.
On the NINDS website we have a lot ofinformation on our NINDS-specific programs
(08:58):
and FOAs and different priorities.
I think our advisory Council, our nationalAdvisory Council, which meets three times
a year and is the second level of review,has a portion of the meeting is an open
session where they discuss policy issuesand a lot of times that touches on what
the priorities for the institute shouldbe, and those are all now video cast so
(09:20):
you can watch it through video live orthey are archived you can watch it later.
The last thing I would just mentionis a lot of our specific workshops.
A lot of times, the program directorswill have workshops in specific
scientific areas, and a lot ofthose are also sometimes video cast.
So that's another way oflearning about what might be
priorities in a specific area.
Anna Taylo (09:40):
One thing Paul, just to add about Reporter is that it's
a really great way to identifyother people that are doing the
kinds of research that you're doing.
So you can, for example, copy andpaste on abstract that you wrote into
Reporter and find other types of researchthat are being funded in that area.
You can see what studysections they were reviewed at.
(10:02):
You can find out what institutesare funding research in that
area and who the program officersare that cover that portfolio.
So it's a really great way to figureout where, in the sort of NIH system,
the type of research that you're doingis funded and how to find resources
that could potentially help you.
Lauren Ullrich (10:21):
Right, right.
And for a trainee, you could useit to help you identify potential
postdoc mentors or collaborators.
I think we've talked about Reportera lot on this podcast, but it's
because it's really useful, I think,and not enough people know about it.
Marguerite (10:38):
I think researchers new to NIH funding often feel like
they're responding to the priorities thatNINDS has set by applying for grants.
But how do researchers in theextramural community help NINDS
set its research priorities?
P (10:53):
I think, I would say, is that the input from the external community
to NINDS is extremely important.
Well, it's it's actually more important.
I would say it's essential.
Because obviously we can't know everythingabout what the scientific community
feels is important or what the prioritiesare, what the exciting areas of inquiry
are out there, and so we're alwaysseeking ways of getting that input.
(11:14):
And so this could take a variety of forms.
I mentioned before, you know, we holdworkshops where we invite members of
the outside community to come in andgive us input on properties in an area.
Sort of on a larger scale, occasionally wehave strategic planning or prioritization
activities where we might form a specificworking group of our advisory council
(11:36):
that will really delve into the areaand give us specific recommendations
on what are the important areas in thefield, what should the priorities would
be, what are the needs in the field?
And so that's another way.
And lot of times with thoseactivities, we also have ways of
trying to get broader community inputthat the working group can gather.
One of the ways we do thisis through what's called a
(11:56):
request for information or RFI.
This is where we'll put out a generalcall for input on a specific area.
We'll ask a number of questions.
Anybody can respond, and a lot of timesit's really helpful in terms of getting
the broad input in terms of what thewhole community feels are important areas.
Lauren (12:12):
One of the things we've talked about on this podcast a lot
is the difference between NINDS andNIH and how we as an institute
work with NIH as a whole.
But we haven't really touched on how NINDSinteracts with other federal agencies in
the executive branch and also Congress.
(12:36):
So I was wondering if you couldoutline that process for us.
Sophia Jeo (12:41):
So we interact quite frequently with other federal agencies.
There is a couple of differentways that we do that.
One that comes to mind is throughbig research collaboration via big
initiatives, just like the BRAINInitiative--I think most of you
have heard of the BRAIN Initiative.
(13:01):
So we collaborate with DARPA, theNational Science Foundation, IARPA, and
all these other big federal agencies.
We also have what's called a memorandumof understanding, MOU, with some of the
centers at FDA, to help coordinate fundingactivities and provide updates i specific
(13:25):
disease areas or just scientific areas.
And more, I guess casually, I mean,program directors and staff, they usually
interact with other agencies' staffthrough meetings and workshops, but
also some people serve on what we calltrans-NIH working groups and sometimes
committees and scientific panels.
(13:47):
So we make sure that every activitythat we do is well coordinated, and we
make sure that we coordinate researchactivities across different agencies.
So in terms of Congress, there'sdifferent ways also for us to communicate.
As Paul mentioned, we get our fundingfrom Congress through the appropriations
(14:09):
process, so we have some formal waysto communicate through written reports.
The appropriators on the AppropriationsCommittee usually like to receive
updates about how we spent themoney last year and how we plan
to spend the funds in the future.
So we usually submit reports toCongress and update them on certain
(14:31):
disease areas that they prioritize.
Also, we sometimes go down tothe Hill and participate in staff
level or member level briefings.
Usually it's about an hour long meetingwhere NIH staff would go down and present
what we are doing in a certain area.
(14:54):
Sometimes we also receive draft bills thatthey're working on so they don't have the
scientific expertise usually, the policymakers don't, so we have to make sure
that everything that goes on the bill isfeasible and, um, scientifically accurate.
So we do this through what's calleda technical assistance, so we provide
(15:15):
technical assistance for bills.
And sometimes they just, you know,sometimes they pick up the phone and
just call us and ask us questions.
So, um, we try to answer thosequestions in a timely manner.
Paul Sco (15:28):
The only thing I would add in terms of what Sofia mentioned
with the technical review is that, asa federal agency, we're not allowed to
take an official position on a pieceof legislation that is affecting us.
That would be--that's against the law.
So we can never say we endorse orwe don't endorse a specific bill.
But as Sophia said, sometimesthey'll send a draft to us to get our
(15:48):
scientific input to make sure that thebill, what its stating is accurate.
Lauren Ullrich (15:52):
And you mentioned appropriators.
I'm not sure that our audiencewill know what they are.
Will you give us, like the 30 secondversion of who appropriators are and what
they do and their relationship with NIH.
Paul S (16:07):
So, uh, appropriation is another way of saying the funding.
And so the appropriation committeesin Congress in both the House and the
Senate, those are the groups of memberswho were responsible for funding the
federal government and the agencies.
And they're split up amongthe different departments.
So ours is the Labor, Healthand Human Services Committee.
(16:27):
And they will usually have hearings inthe spring where they bring witnesses in.
And then they develop a budget anda bill to fund government, and that
gets wrapped into the larger process.
So they're obviously very importantbecause they're the ones who are deciding
how much money NIH will be getting.
We're not allowed to lobby Congressfor how much money we should get.
(16:50):
We can answer their questions ifthey have questions about that.
But that's actually something that yourtrainees should know is that it's very
helpful when the scientific communitytries to visit your local congressional
member or write a letter to them talkingabout the value of what the research
that you're doing is, how exciting itis, and the fact that the congressional
members should support funding for NIH.
Lauren Ullrich (17:09):
Yeah, that was actually my job in a past life.
Before I worked here, I was at Societyfor Neuroscience helping members actually
advocate for NIH and NSF funding, andI know a lot of scientific societies
do things like that, and trainees usedto express a lot of hesitation about
talking with members and sort of notknowing what to say, but, um, as somebody
(17:30):
who was on the other side of that,scientific societies work very hard to
make sure that members feel prepared.
And so it's definitely a good opportunityto see a little bit behind the scenes
of what happens in Congress to go to aHill Day or participate in a lab tour
for a congressman and things like that.
Marguerite Matthews (17:50):
So is there anything else that you think
that in NINDS researchers shouldknow about the process of setting
research priorities and funding?
Sophia Je (17:58):
So one thing I forgot to mention earlier, is that in terms
of setting our priorities, anotherstakeholder group that is really important
for setting priorities is, uh, NGOs, nonprofit groups, disease advocacy community.
They really do a lot to impact howwe set our priorities at NINDS.
(18:23):
So as Lauren mentioned, likescientific societies like SfN
and other disease advocates, theyhave also funding for postdocs and
graduate students, and you can reallytake advantage of these as well.
NIH is really not the only funder.
So I think they actually encourageyounger investigators to take advantage
(18:46):
of their little seed funding so thatyou can really get started and then be
prepared for bigger NIH grants like R01s.
So I think that's one thing that I hadn'treally appreciated before in the lab.
I always thought that NIH was likethe biggest, but there's other
societies and foundations that youcan really look up and try to engage.
Ann (19:10):
I think for my perspective, one of the things that a lot of people
on the outside don't fully appreciate isreally how much of our money goes towards
grants that we don't actually solicit.
So, for example, I think it's upto 70% of our funds go towards
(19:30):
so-called unsolicited research thatis, basically an investigator gets an
idea and submits an application, andif it gets a good score, we pay it.
And so this idea of following themoney and following research priorities
might not necessarily be in your bestinterest, particularly if you're trying
to break into a field where you don'thave a lot of expertise and you're
(19:52):
just trying to capitalize on, you know,where you think there's extra money.
So by virtue of this, I think it'simportant to do what you like to
do and do the kind of research thatyou're good at and just submit an
application and keep trying and takefeedback from review and try again.
Lauren Ullr (20:12):
That's also a theme that's been running through this podcast.
Paul S (20:16):
I think the only thing I would add is, in some ways restating
what we had said before in terms of weas an institute put a lot of effort into
communicating and educating Congress onthe value of the research that's funded.
What advances are coming out of it?
How is it leading to new scientificknowledge, reducing burden of disease,
improving the health of our country.
But you know, the scientific communityand including trainees, have an
(20:37):
important role to play here as well.
So some of the things that you can do,which may not be obvious, is, you know,
always cite your NINDS funding when youpublish a paper or give a presentation
or, you know, you may be interviewedby the media on some cool finding that
you've done and make sure that you makeit clear the source of your funding.
Because ultimately the American taxpayeris the one who's funding your research
(20:59):
and so the more that we can educate themand the representatives in Congress,
the better for you, the better foryour field, and the better for NIH.
Marguerite Matt (21:11):
Well, thank you all for joining us today and sharing
some interesting tidbits on theprocess of NINDS's research priorities.
And can I ask you all to saymaybe one last piece of advice
for our future applicants?
Anna Taylor (21:25):
Well, I think it's important to recognize that all of
us at the table here are scientists,and we all went to graduate school.
We all did postdocs and yetwe ended up here at NIH.
And so if you have questions about whatyou want to do with your future, you
know, recognize that there's a careerpath for you at NIH and in a number of
(21:46):
other places, and we don't see it asa success or a failure if you end up
anywhere other than in an academic lab.
Sophia Jeon (21:53):
Yeah I think it's important to pay attention to what
your strengths are, and by strength,I mean, like, you know where you
really find joy when you're working,because there's different activities.
When, you know, when you're in graduateschool, you may go to scientific meetings
and workshops and find interactingwith other scientists really joyful.
You may like pipetting and,you know, working of a lab.
(22:16):
That's great for you, too.
And, um, I think just paying attentionto that really helps determine which
career path might be right for you.
So keep doing the good work.
Lauren Ullric (22:28):
Okay, Marguerite, do you have any, uh, last
parting advice for our listeners?
Marguerite Ma (22:34):
I think from what we learned today, it's important to
recognize how important you are bothinside of the lab, but also outside.
So don't take for granted thatyou are both a citizen and
someone who is involved in variousaspects of the research community.
So as was mentioned before that weall are essential to this enterprise.
(22:56):
So even trainees, graduate students,you are very important to NINDS and
whether or not you receive fundingdirectly from us, you're just
being in the field is important.
Lauren U (23:07):
I would just say be an informed citizen of your community, right?
I think that's been a theme throughoutthis podcast, and hopefully you
listening to this podcast is astep on that journey for you.
But there's a lot that happens behindthe scenes, and we try our best to
communicate everything to the community.
(23:27):
But it can be hard.
And so it also is incumbent uponyou to seek out that information
and learn how the process works andnot just be holed up in the lab.
Okay, well, that's all we have timefor today on Building Up the Nerve.
(23:49):
So thank you again to our guests thisweek for sharing their expertise.
You can find past episodes of thispodcast and many more grant application
resources on the web at ninds.nih.gov.
Marguerite Matthe (24:02):
Email us with questions at NINDSNervePod@nih.gov.
And be sure to subscribe to thepodcast on Apple Podcast or your
favorite podcast app so you don'tmiss what may be in store next season.
Until next time!
Welcome to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders
and Stroke's Building Up the Nerve,a podcast for neuroscience trainees
that takes you through the life cycleof a grant from idea to award at NINDS
with the people who make it happen.
We know that applying for NIH fundingcan be daunting, but we're here to help.
It's our job.
Hi, I'm Lauren Ullrich, ascientific program manager at NINDS
Marguerite Matthews (00:25):
And I'm Marguerite Matthews a Health Program
Specialist at NINDS and we're yourhost today for Building Up the Nerve.
In the previous episode, wediscussed how NINDS monitors
grant performance after the award.
Lauren U (00:38):
And for this, our last episode, we're going to talk about
how NINDS monitors its portfolio asa whole and acts as a responsible
steward of taxpayer money and howit sets its funding and priorities.
And as always, I want to state thedisclaimer that everything we talk
about may only be relevant for NINDS.
So if you're applying to a differentNIH institute, it's always best to
(01:01):
talk with them about their policies.
Marguerite Mat (01:07):
Joining us today are Dr Paul Scott, Director of the
Office of Science Policy and Planning,Dr Sophia Jeon, a health science policy
analyst, and Dr Anna Taylor, programdirector in the office of the Director
and Division of Extramural Activities.
Paul Scott (01:23):
Hello.
My name is Paul Scott.
I'm the director of the Office of SciencePolicy and Planning here at NINDS.
Our office has several importantresponsibilities for the institute.
We coordinate NINDS interactionswith Congress, which of course,
is important because Congressis where we get our funding.
My office coordinates strategic planningand prioritization activities as well as
evaluation activities for the institutes.
(01:44):
And we also help out with alot of portfolio analysis.
I've been an NIH since 1996 and atNINDS since 1998.
Before coming here, I actuallycame to NIH as a AAAS science
and technology policy fellow.
Prior to that, I was a postdocin a circadian neurobiology
lab in San Antonio, Texas.
(02:06):
In terms of hobbies, I just reallyenjoy spending time with my family,
and I'd like to listen to music, allkinds of different popular music.
Soph (02:14):
Hi, I'm Sofia Jeon and I'm a health science policy analyst in the
office of Science Policy and Planning.
So Paul is my boss.
So as Paul mentioned, I do a lot ofthings related to congressional affairs.
I help make sure that NINDScommunicates with Congress in
an effective and timely manner.
I've been at NIH since 2014 andI've been at NINDS since 2016.
(02:38):
So a little over three years now.
I was a postdoc before I came to NINDS.
So I was a postdoc at theNational Eye Institute, which
is one of the institutes at NIH.
I'm actually an immunologist by training.
So I studied autoimmunediseases in the eye.
I thought neuroscience is cooler,so I jumped onto neuroscience, I
(03:02):
would say my hobby is keeping my 20month old son entertained, that's
how I usually spend my time, butsometimes that can feel like work.
So my hobby in the truest senseof the word is probably reading.
Anna Taylor (03:18):
Hi, I'm Anna Taylor, as Lauren said.
I'm a program director in thedivision of extramural activities.
My job is different thanmany program directors.
I don't manage a grant portfolio, butwhat I do is manage a program called the
NIH NeuroBioBank, which is a network ofsix brain and tissue repositories that
(03:40):
collect and distribute brain tissuefor use by the research community.
But in addition to that, I overseea couple of more general programs.
I oversee the NINDS R35 program, whichis a program that is relatively new,
and it's designed to support all of aninvestigator's NINDS research under one
(04:01):
funding vehicle and that will hopefullylimit the ability for researchers to
constantly have to be applying for grants.
And the last part of my job is workingin extramural policy and analysis.
So I do a lot of portfolio analysisthat are involved in policy development.
(04:22):
So, for example, one recent policy thatwe released was a modification of our
special council review policy, whichserves to limit the amount of funding
any one particular investigator can have.
So there was a lot of pre analysisthat went into the development
of that policy, and I also workedto develop and implement that.
(04:42):
I've been at NIH for about 12 years.
And like Paul, I came to NIH as a AAASscience and technology policy fellow.
Um, prior to that, I was a postdocat Wake Forest University and
studying motor neuron degeneration.
So I'm also a neuroscientist.
And, um, one of my hobbies outsideof the office is traveling.
(05:06):
And, you know, unfortunately, lifedoesn't allow me to do it as much as
I'd like, But I love to see all partsof the country and the world and I
particularly have a fondness for beaches.
Marguerite Matthews (05:24):
So will one of you tell us how NINDS
manages its research portfolio?
Anna Taylor (05:29):
In general NINDS has a number of different ways
that it manages its portfolio.
But for most grants that come inunsolicited and that is not as part
of any specific topic area that we'veissued a call for applications on,
NINDS set a payline and funds nearlyall of the applications that get a
percentile score within that payline.
(05:50):
For example, in fiscalyear 18 our pay line
is set to the 16 percentile.
If you submitted an applicationthat scored at the 16 percentile
or better, chances are highthat you would have been funded.
In general, we fund all R01s,R21s, and R03s in that way.
There are a couple of exceptions to thispayline, including the funding level
for early stage investigators, thosepeople that are within 10 years of their
(06:13):
terminal degree and haven't gotten an R01.
The pay line for early stage investigatorsas much higher because that's a priority
area that's been identified by NIH.
There are sometimes other priorityareas that have been identified and
they may have higher paylines too.
And one example of that is Alzheimer'sdisease and related dementias.
(06:33):
And that sort of leads to the secondway that we manage our portfolio.
Sometimes we don't get to decide.
Sometimes high priority areas wereidentified for us by Congress or by
the administration and we're chargedwith developing programs that are
responsive to those priorities.
This is currently true for, like Isaid, for Alzheimer's disease and
(06:54):
related dementias, is it's true forthe BRAIN Initiative, and also, most
recently, the HEAL Initiative, whichis focused on the opioid crisis.
In each of these cases, significantfunds have been directed towards these
specific areas to catalyze the field.
But at heart NINDS is a scienceorganization and most of our program staff
(07:14):
are scientists, and as a result, we'dlike to take a scientific and data-driven
approach to how we manage our resources.
So one of the ways that we do that isthrough the use of portfolio analysis
to get a better understanding of theresearch we fund so we can identify
areas that require additional attention.
One example of this is an analysis ofthe general areas of science that we
(07:35):
fund across the research spectrum, frombasic science to clinical research.
And a systematic evaluation ofour portfolio we learned that
our investment in basic researchdeclined significantly between
1997 and 2011 going from 51 to 21%.
As a result, we've made significantefforts to bring this number higher
(07:55):
through FOAs targeted to basic researchand also by communicating to the
research community that basic researchdoes great in review, better than any
other type of research we analyzed.
Laur (08:05):
So how can the public find out more about this process, about what
we're funding and what our priorities are?
Pa (08:15):
In terms of finding out what we're funding terms of specific grants.
There is a portion of the NIH websitecalled Reporter, which you can look up
funding by any number of parameters byarea, by year, by area of the country.
And so that's a really good way.
It's publicly available and allowsyou to do a lot of different types
(08:37):
of analyses, and that's a good way ofknowing terms of the grant portfolio.
If you're interested in applyingfor a specific type of research, the
NIH Guide for Grants and Contractslists all of what are called FOAs,
funding opportunity announcements.
That's a good source to also look for.
On the NINDS website we have a lot ofinformation on our NINDS-specific programs
(08:58):
and FOAs and different priorities.
I think our advisory Council, our nationalAdvisory Council, which meets three times
a year and is the second level of review,has a portion of the meeting is an open
session where they discuss policy issuesand a lot of times that touches on what
the priorities for the institute shouldbe, and those are all now video cast so
(09:20):
you can watch it through video live orthey are archived you can watch it later.
The last thing I would just mentionis a lot of our specific workshops.
A lot of times, the program directorswill have workshops in specific
scientific areas, and a lot ofthose are also sometimes video cast.
So that's another way oflearning about what might be
priorities in a specific area.
Anna Taylo (09:40):
One thing Paul, just to add about Reporter is that it's
a really great way to identifyother people that are doing the
kinds of research that you're doing.
So you can, for example, copy andpaste on abstract that you wrote into
Reporter and find other types of researchthat are being funded in that area.
You can see what studysections they were reviewed at.
(10:02):
You can find out what institutesare funding research in that
area and who the program officersare that cover that portfolio.
So it's a really great way to figureout where, in the sort of NIH system,
the type of research that you're doingis funded and how to find resources
that could potentially help you.
Lauren Ullrich (10:21):
Right, right.
And for a trainee, you could useit to help you identify potential
postdoc mentors or collaborators.
I think we've talked about Reportera lot on this podcast, but it's
because it's really useful, I think,and not enough people know about it.
Marguerite (10:38):
I think researchers new to NIH funding often feel like
they're responding to the priorities thatNINDS has set by applying for grants.
But how do researchers in theextramural community help NINDS
set its research priorities?
P (10:53):
I think, I would say, is that the input from the external community
to NINDS is extremely important.
Well, it's it's actually more important.
I would say it's essential.
Because obviously we can't know everythingabout what the scientific community
feels is important or what the prioritiesare, what the exciting areas of inquiry
are out there, and so we're alwaysseeking ways of getting that input.
(11:14):
And so this could take a variety of forms.
I mentioned before, you know, we holdworkshops where we invite members of
the outside community to come in andgive us input on properties in an area.
Sort of on a larger scale, occasionally wehave strategic planning or prioritization
activities where we might form a specificworking group of our advisory council
(11:36):
that will really delve into the areaand give us specific recommendations
on what are the important areas in thefield, what should the priorities would
be, what are the needs in the field?
And so that's another way.
And lot of times with thoseactivities, we also have ways of
trying to get broader community inputthat the working group can gather.
One of the ways we do thisis through what's called a
(11:56):
request for information or RFI.
This is where we'll put out a generalcall for input on a specific area.
We'll ask a number of questions.
Anybody can respond, and a lot of timesit's really helpful in terms of getting
the broad input in terms of what thewhole community feels are important areas.
Lauren (12:12):
One of the things we've talked about on this podcast a lot
is the difference between NINDS andNIH and how we as an institute
work with NIH as a whole.
But we haven't really touched on how NINDSinteracts with other federal agencies in
the executive branch and also Congress.
(12:36):
So I was wondering if you couldoutline that process for us.
Sophia Jeo (12:41):
So we interact quite frequently with other federal agencies.
There is a couple of differentways that we do that.
One that comes to mind is throughbig research collaboration via big
initiatives, just like the BRAINInitiative--I think most of you
have heard of the BRAIN Initiative.
(13:01):
So we collaborate with DARPA, theNational Science Foundation, IARPA, and
all these other big federal agencies.
We also have what's called a memorandumof understanding, MOU, with some of the
centers at FDA, to help coordinate fundingactivities and provide updates i specific
(13:25):
disease areas or just scientific areas.
And more, I guess casually, I mean,program directors and staff, they usually
interact with other agencies' staffthrough meetings and workshops, but
also some people serve on what we calltrans-NIH working groups and sometimes
committees and scientific panels.
(13:47):
So we make sure that every activitythat we do is well coordinated, and we
make sure that we coordinate researchactivities across different agencies.
So in terms of Congress, there'sdifferent ways also for us to communicate.
As Paul mentioned, we get our fundingfrom Congress through the appropriations
(14:09):
process, so we have some formal waysto communicate through written reports.
The appropriators on the AppropriationsCommittee usually like to receive
updates about how we spent themoney last year and how we plan
to spend the funds in the future.
So we usually submit reports toCongress and update them on certain
(14:31):
disease areas that they prioritize.
Also, we sometimes go down tothe Hill and participate in staff
level or member level briefings.
Usually it's about an hour long meetingwhere NIH staff would go down and present
what we are doing in a certain area.
(14:54):
Sometimes we also receive draft bills thatthey're working on so they don't have the
scientific expertise usually, the policymakers don't, so we have to make sure
that everything that goes on the bill isfeasible and, um, scientifically accurate.
So we do this through what's calleda technical assistance, so we provide
(15:15):
technical assistance for bills.
And sometimes they just, you know,sometimes they pick up the phone and
just call us and ask us questions.
So, um, we try to answer thosequestions in a timely manner.
Paul Sco (15:28):
The only thing I would add in terms of what Sofia mentioned
with the technical review is that, asa federal agency, we're not allowed to
take an official position on a pieceof legislation that is affecting us.
That would be--that's against the law.
So we can never say we endorse orwe don't endorse a specific bill.
But as Sophia said, sometimesthey'll send a draft to us to get our
(15:48):
scientific input to make sure that thebill, what its stating is accurate.
Lauren Ullrich (15:52):
And you mentioned appropriators.
I'm not sure that our audiencewill know what they are.
Will you give us, like the 30 secondversion of who appropriators are and what
they do and their relationship with NIH.
Paul S (16:07):
So, uh, appropriation is another way of saying the funding.
And so the appropriation committeesin Congress in both the House and the
Senate, those are the groups of memberswho were responsible for funding the
federal government and the agencies.
And they're split up amongthe different departments.
So ours is the Labor, Healthand Human Services Committee.
(16:27):
And they will usually have hearings inthe spring where they bring witnesses in.
And then they develop a budget anda bill to fund government, and that
gets wrapped into the larger process.
So they're obviously very importantbecause they're the ones who are deciding
how much money NIH will be getting.
We're not allowed to lobby Congressfor how much money we should get.
(16:50):
We can answer their questions ifthey have questions about that.
But that's actually something that yourtrainees should know is that it's very
helpful when the scientific communitytries to visit your local congressional
member or write a letter to them talkingabout the value of what the research
that you're doing is, how exciting itis, and the fact that the congressional
members should support funding for NIH.
Lauren Ullrich (17:09):
Yeah, that was actually my job in a past life.
Before I worked here, I was at Societyfor Neuroscience helping members actually
advocate for NIH and NSF funding, andI know a lot of scientific societies
do things like that, and trainees usedto express a lot of hesitation about
talking with members and sort of notknowing what to say, but, um, as somebody
(17:30):
who was on the other side of that,scientific societies work very hard to
make sure that members feel prepared.
And so it's definitely a good opportunityto see a little bit behind the scenes
of what happens in Congress to go to aHill Day or participate in a lab tour
for a congressman and things like that.
Marguerite Matthews (17:50):
So is there anything else that you think
that in NINDS researchers shouldknow about the process of setting
research priorities and funding?
Sophia Je (17:58):
So one thing I forgot to mention earlier, is that in terms
of setting our priorities, anotherstakeholder group that is really important
for setting priorities is, uh, NGOs, nonprofit groups, disease advocacy community.
They really do a lot to impact howwe set our priorities at NINDS.
(18:23):
So as Lauren mentioned, likescientific societies like SfN
and other disease advocates, theyhave also funding for postdocs and
graduate students, and you can reallytake advantage of these as well.
NIH is really not the only funder.
So I think they actually encourageyounger investigators to take advantage
(18:46):
of their little seed funding so thatyou can really get started and then be
prepared for bigger NIH grants like R01s.
So I think that's one thing that I hadn'treally appreciated before in the lab.
I always thought that NIH was likethe biggest, but there's other
societies and foundations that youcan really look up and try to engage.
Ann (19:10):
I think for my perspective, one of the things that a lot of people
on the outside don't fully appreciate isreally how much of our money goes towards
grants that we don't actually solicit.
So, for example, I think it's upto 70% of our funds go towards
(19:30):
so-called unsolicited research thatis, basically an investigator gets an
idea and submits an application, andif it gets a good score, we pay it.
And so this idea of following themoney and following research priorities
might not necessarily be in your bestinterest, particularly if you're trying
to break into a field where you don'thave a lot of expertise and you're
(19:52):
just trying to capitalize on, you know,where you think there's extra money.
So by virtue of this, I think it'simportant to do what you like to
do and do the kind of research thatyou're good at and just submit an
application and keep trying and takefeedback from review and try again.
Lauren Ullr (20:12):
That's also a theme that's been running through this podcast.
Paul S (20:16):
I think the only thing I would add is, in some ways restating
what we had said before in terms of weas an institute put a lot of effort into
communicating and educating Congress onthe value of the research that's funded.
What advances are coming out of it?
How is it leading to new scientificknowledge, reducing burden of disease,
improving the health of our country.
But you know, the scientific communityand including trainees, have an
(20:37):
important role to play here as well.
So some of the things that you can do,which may not be obvious, is, you know,
always cite your NINDS funding when youpublish a paper or give a presentation
or, you know, you may be interviewedby the media on some cool finding that
you've done and make sure that you makeit clear the source of your funding.
Because ultimately the American taxpayeris the one who's funding your research
(20:59):
and so the more that we can educate themand the representatives in Congress,
the better for you, the better foryour field, and the better for NIH.
Marguerite Matt (21:11):
Well, thank you all for joining us today and sharing
some interesting tidbits on theprocess of NINDS's research priorities.
And can I ask you all to saymaybe one last piece of advice
for our future applicants?
Anna Taylor (21:25):
Well, I think it's important to recognize that all of
us at the table here are scientists,and we all went to graduate school.
We all did postdocs and yetwe ended up here at NIH.
And so if you have questions about whatyou want to do with your future, you
know, recognize that there's a careerpath for you at NIH and in a number of
(21:46):
other places, and we don't see it asa success or a failure if you end up
anywhere other than in an academic lab.
Sophia Jeon (21:53):
Yeah I think it's important to pay attention to what
your strengths are, and by strength,I mean, like, you know where you
really find joy when you're working,because there's different activities.
When, you know, when you're in graduateschool, you may go to scientific meetings
and workshops and find interactingwith other scientists really joyful.
You may like pipetting and,you know, working of a lab.
(22:16):
That's great for you, too.
And, um, I think just paying attentionto that really helps determine which
career path might be right for you.
So keep doing the good work.
Lauren Ullric (22:28):
Okay, Marguerite, do you have any, uh, last
parting advice for our listeners?
Marguerite Ma (22:34):
I think from what we learned today, it's important to
recognize how important you are bothinside of the lab, but also outside.
So don't take for granted thatyou are both a citizen and
someone who is involved in variousaspects of the research community.
So as was mentioned before that weall are essential to this enterprise.
(22:56):
So even trainees, graduate students,you are very important to NINDS and
whether or not you receive fundingdirectly from us, you're just
being in the field is important.
Lauren U (23:07):
I would just say be an informed citizen of your community, right?
I think that's been a theme throughoutthis podcast, and hopefully you
listening to this podcast is astep on that journey for you.
But there's a lot that happens behindthe scenes, and we try our best to
communicate everything to the community.
(23:27):
But it can be hard.
And so it also is incumbent uponyou to seek out that information
and learn how the process works andnot just be holed up in the lab.
Okay, well, that's all we have timefor today on Building Up the Nerve.
(23:49):
So thank you again to our guests thisweek for sharing their expertise.
You can find past episodes of thispodcast and many more grant application
resources on the web at ninds.nih.gov.
Marguerite Matthe (24:02):
Email us with questions at NINDSNervePod@nih.gov.
And be sure to subscribe to thepodcast on Apple Podcast or your
favorite podcast app so you don'tmiss what may be in store next season.
Until next time!
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