December 13, 2019 • 32 mins
Learn what happens to your application after you hit submit from Karrah Benson, Referral Program Specialist, and Dr. Carlos Faraco, Health Program Specialist.
Building Up the Nerve is a podcast from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke for neuroscience trainees that takes you through the life cycle of a grant from idea to award at NINDS with the people who make it happen. We know that applying for NIH funding can be daunting, but we’re here to help—it’s our job!
This episode has been edited since its original publication.
Transcript: http://ninds.buzzsprout.com/558574/2233913-episode-5-receipt-and-referral
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lauren (00:02):
Welcome to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders
and Stroke's Building up the Nerve,a podcast for neuroscience trainees
that takes you through the life cycleof a grant from idea to award at NINDS
with the people who make it happen.
We know that applying for NIH fundingcan be daunting, but we're here to help.
It's our job.
Marguerite Matthews (00:21):
Hi, I'm Marguerite Matthews, a health
program specialist at NINDS.
Lauren Ullrich (00:24):
And I'm Lauren Ullrich, a scientific program manager
at NINDS, and we're your hosts.
Marguerite Matthews (00:30):
Last time we discussed putting
together the application.
Today, we're going to talk about whathappens after you hit submit with the
receipt and referral process, whereapplications are assigned to an NIH
Institute, a program directors portfolioand a study section for review.
Before we start, I'll say ourdisclaimer: everything we talk about
may only be relevant for NINDS.
(00:52):
If you're applying to a different NIHinstitute or center, it's always best
to check with them about their policies.
Lauren Ullrich (00:59):
So this may be dating myself a little bit, but
did you know I submitted my firstfellowship application by mail?
Marguerite Matthews (01:04):
And by mail do you mean, like Postal service?
Lauren Ullrich (01:06):
Postal service!
Marguerite Matthews (01:06):
Or like a carrier pigeon?
Lauren Ullrich (01:09):
[Laughter] We're the same age I think, Marguerite...
Marguerite Matthews (01:14):
I know, I'm just kidding.
Lauren Ullrich (01:15):
...so don't be throwing punches here.
Um, yeah, actually.
And so I actually knew people atGeorgetown that would drive it over
to NIH because they were too closeto the deadline, the five PM deadline
and needed to get it in, and theywould physically hand it to someone.
Marguerite Matthews (01:28):
Wow, What a time to be alive.
[laughter]
Lauren Ullr (01:38):
So joining us today are Karrah Benson, our referral
program specialist, and Dr CarlosFaraco a health program specialist
in the division of clinical research.
So let's start with introductions.
Karrah?
Karrah B (01:51):
Hi, I'm Karrah Benson, I actually wear two hats at NINDS.
So I am the guide liaison, and I'malso a receipt and referral specialist.
There are two of us on thereceipt and referral end, Maureen
Hambrecht would be my co partner.
I basically help publish fundingopportunity announcements and notices
on the front end and then on thereceipt and referral end, I help sort
(02:12):
applications with program directorsonce they're signed to NINDS.
And some of what I do with receiptand referral is also negotiating the
transfer of applications between ICs.
As for how long I've been with NINDS, It'sactually been seven years, but I've been
in my current position for three and priorto this current position I'm in, I used to
(02:34):
work with the epilepsy therapy screeningprogram and I was the program coordinator
in the division of translational research.
And some hobbies that I h (02:42):
I'm a big fan of soccer, especially women's
soccer, love the World Cup this summer.
I love going to concerts, specificallycountry concerts, but any concerts
And I enjoy doing activities outdoorsspecifically with my my pit bull Zeus and
if you know me here, you probably knowmore about my dog than you do about me.
Lauren Ull (03:03):
I cannot believe you didn't mention the Capitals, Karrah.
Marguerite Matthew (03:05):
I also can't believe you didn't mention that.
I thought that was gonnabe thing number one.
Karrah Benson (03:10):
That's my shared hobby with my mom.
So it's more her hobby, and I takeinterest in it because of her.
But she's--I don't know what happened.
She just went Caps crazy about adecade ago and never looked back.
Lauren Ullrich (03:24):
Carlos?
Carlos (03:25):
So as Lauren mentioned, I'm a health program specialist in
the division of clinical research.
And that means I wear a lot of hats and doa lot of different things, but basically
I help the program directors manage andtrack various programmatic activities.
And I also help with some of ourclinical networks, including our
stroke and pain clinical networks.
(03:46):
I've only been here for 10 months.
I'm still learning the ropes.
There is a lot to learn, as Ithink everybody in this room knows.
And so hopefully you know, another yearor two I'll have everything figured out.
Marguerite Matthews (03:58):
Or not.
This is a huge place!
Lauren U (04:00):
They just change it on you and you've got something new to learn
Marguerite (04:04):
Always a challenge.
Carl (04:06):
And so, before starting at NINDS, I was actually a AAAS science and
technology policy fellow at the Officeof Investigative and Forensic Sciences
within the National Institute of Justice,which, as people probably do not know,
is actually a research arm of the DOJ.
And before there I was a postdocfor about three and 1/2 years at the
(04:27):
Vanderbilt University Institute ofImaging Science, and I worked with Manus
Donahue developing MR acquisitions andanalyses to stratify stroke risk and
patients with intracranial stenosis.
And as far as what I like to do outsideof work, well, I would say lots of things.
I like to ride mymotorcycle on the racetrack.
(04:48):
I play guitar.
I particularly enjoy going todeath metal concerts and um
Marguerite Matthews (04:53):
[laughter]
Carlos Faraco (04:53):
yes, some some people find that funny
Marguerite Matthews (04:57):
To know Carlos is to know why that is funny
Carlos Faraco (04:59):
Exactly.
And I also try to keep pretty active,I like weightlifting, running, cycling.
And most importantly, I love to cook.
Marguerite Matthews (05:07):
What's your favorite type of food to cook?
Carlos Faraco (05:10):
I would say, probably Thai food.
And I'm Cuban, sodefinitely Cuban food too.
Lauren Ullrich (05:15):
Don't want to get disowned here.
Marguerite Matthews (05:16):
Right.
All right.
So can you tell us a littleabout how NIH determines which
IC an application is assigned to?
Karrah Benso (05:29):
So that's actually a bit of a complicated answer.
While many NIH policies give the divisionof receipt referral the ability to
determine assignments, they actuallywork with SROs, with program officers,
and with applicants, to reach theinstitute and program staff that's best
suited to be assigned to an application.
(05:50):
Additionally, I would say that themost important factor limiting which
institute or center can be assignedto an application is whether those
ICs are actually participating inthe funding opportunity announcement.
I would just say that a lot ofapplications that we receive are in
response to specific FOAs and folks don'tnecessarily check to see whether those
institutes are participating in that FOA.
(06:11):
And unfortunately, sometimes that canchange while the FOA is active as well.
So it's important to just check forguide notices and any changes in the
FOA because maybe when you set outto submit an application and IC is
participating in a FOA and then atthe time where you actually go to
submit, that's no longer the case.
Lauren Ull (06:30):
And IC can also join after the fact too, so you might
see a FOA and say, oh, you know,my institutes not participating.
And then they join later, and you mightmiss out if you don't pay attention.
Karrah (06:41):
Yeah, and we often get a lot of questions about dual assignments,
too, which can be confusing to folks.
In some cases, applications can receivea dual assignment and, as you know, a
participating IC is identified for primaryassignment for funding consideration
based on the focus of the applicationand the mission relevance of the IC.
(07:02):
Dual assignments acknowledge a sharedinterest in a topic and make all
appropriate ICs aware of the application.
I'd also like to point out that adual assignment does not necessarily
increase the chance of an award,which confuses some applicants.
The frequency of a duel assignmentleading to a change to primary and
award is actually less than 2%.
(07:23):
Some applicants do ask us howmuch of an application is read
when making an IC assignment.
And the honest answer is as muchof the application as needed
to make that determination.
Referral staff have accessto the entire application.
In many cases, they concentrate onthe abstract and specific aims when
making the assignment with attentionalso paid to the research strategy.
(07:46):
Requests made by investigatorsand the assignment of previous
applications are also considered.
So, referral staff regularly discussthe assignment of applications and
how to handle unusual situations.
Laure (07:58):
So, if there's a specific IC or a specific study section that you
think your application should go to,how can you ask for that assignment and
does NIH have to abide by that request?
Carlos Fa (08:12):
So ask for a specific IC or study section assignment.
You can use what's called theassignment request form, and that's
available to all applicants whenthey submit their applications.
And NIH does actually encourageall applicants to use this.
And so, aside from requesting a specificIC, right, you can also direct your
application to a particular studysection or scientific review group, and
(08:34):
you can provide NIH with informationto help us conduct that review.
So, for example, the PI can use thisform to even describe the type of
expertise needed to review his or herapplication and notify NIH of potential
reviewers who they may feel mightbe in conflict with the application.
However, there are a few caveats towhen this form is actually applicable.
(08:54):
So, if you're responding to a specificrequest for applications or RFA, the
review location for that applicationhas already been predetermined.
So it would mean nothing in that case,in terms of the review assignment.
Karrah Benson (09:06):
Ah, yes.
So just to add to that a lot oftimes, folks do the effort of reaching
out to program staff in advanceof their submission and they don't
include that in their cover letter.
And despite the fact that the assignmentrequest form is the preferred method
to request an IC assignment, if youhave worked with a program director
in advance of submission, feel freeto include that in the cover letter.
(09:28):
It can help with a lot of parts of theprocess of choosing the appropriate IC.
But I find there are definitelyoccasions where people do all this
work with the program director anddon't include it, and we get an email
later on down the road saying, Hey, youknow, I worked with this person, why
wasn't my application assigned here?
And we're not always, youknow, aware of that in advance.
(09:49):
Occasionally we can be.
But some of the program directors gethundreds of thousands of requests,
so it's important just to includeas much information as possible to
help make the process goes smoothly.
Carlos Far (10:01):
And so to answer the second part of the question then,
which is does NIH abide by the request?
The answer is that NIH does try toabide by that request and consider
whatever that applicant is saying.
However, each application is examinedby a team of NIH experts and depending
on the nature of the research, thatICs participating in the funding
announcement, as well as the requirementsof that funding announcement, and the
(10:22):
IC mission relevance, applications mightbe given to a different IC than the
one the applicant actually requested.
Lauren U (10:29):
Right and and reaching out beforehand can kind of help
avoid surprises like that, becauseyou'll be in a dialogue with program
directors, sometimes at multipleinstitutes, to try and find the
best fit before you even submit.
And so because this podcast is directedmostly at trainees, we like to ask, you
know, are there any differences in thispart of the process when it comes to
(10:50):
fellowships or career development awards?
Karra (10:52):
Specifically for fellows, I would absolutely look at the eligibility
criteria in the FOAs because its veryspecific and does vary by institute.
So I would just make sure to touchbase with a program director for the
IC you are interested in and justmake sure that you are eligible at
the time of submission for the FOA.
Carlos F (11:12):
For example, if you're trying to get some sort of post
doc training award, you might havea certain time period in which you
could have been a postdoc, but maybeyou took a break in between there.
So you need to figure outwhether that break factors
into that funding announcement.
Lauren Ul (11:26):
Yes, and specifically for postdoc for example, NINDS has
a separate FOA, we don't participateon the parent F32 and it has very
different eligibility criteria.
And we're the only onessigned on to that FOA.
And so if you're applying to us, you'reapplying to us, and you better make
sure that you fall within our mission,otherwise you might get some bad news.
Marguerite M (11:49):
So we've discussed a little bit about talking with program
officers and program directors, andwe've had a chance to talk with some
program directors on the podcast.
How does NINDS decide which programdirectors hold which grants?
So basically what grants are in theirportfolio and what is a grant portfolio?
Karrah (12:08):
This is a good question.
This is an answer thatmaybe changes all the time.
We're constantly changingportfolios and have new staff on
boarding and etcetera, etcetera.
Program directors at NINDs overseethe research activities in one or
more part of the institute's researchfunding program, managing a portfolio
of grants, contracts and coordinatingprogram efforts on these specifically
(12:33):
defined areas of neuroscience research.
Applicants can actuallyvisit the NINDS website.
We actually have a page called Who Are We?
And on this page they will be ableto view program directors and their
specific research areas that areassociated with each of them and are
also able to use the matchmaker tool.
That's with the NIH Reporter.
I would highly recommend using that,maybe not necessarily to find a program
(12:56):
director, but it's a good place to getstarted when you're looking for which
IC your research area might fall under.
And additionally, you can alsolook up with the matchmaker tool,
program directors and see similarapplications that have been awarded
and are under their portfolios.
Additionally, as applications comein each day, they're assigned based
on research area, and it's up tothe program directors to make the
(13:17):
final decision on who's portfolioand application actually falls under.
Lauren Ull (13:21):
And the way that the fellowships and the career development
awards work, is that they--the actualapplication will live in the scientific
portfolio with the scientific programdirector, but the OPEN office and
the Training Office work very closelywith that scientific program officer.
(13:42):
And also the applicants tohelp them put together the
best application that they can.
Marguerite Matthews (13:47):
Right.
So for our audience, if you're atrainee, you may often be speaking with
multiple people in different officesthat are trying to make sure that
both the science and the training andmentoring plans in an application are
where they should be for submission.
Lauren Ul (14:04):
So, sometimes we hear NIH officials talk about an application
being "non responsive" to an FOA.
So what does that mean?
And what happens if your applicationis deemed non responsive?
Carlos Farac (14:19):
So it's actually a great question because as an applicant
you might imagine that you've doneeverything correctly, and then all
of a sudden, you get a notice thatyour application is non responsive.
And of course you're verysurprised because, hey, I
just did everything correctly.
What's wrong?
So, applications that are submittedto an RFA, again, a request for
application, or what is called anotice of special interests or a NOSI,
(14:43):
those applications can actually beassessed for being non-responsive.
And so, responsiveness is a determinationof whether or not an application
responds to or meets the needs orrequirements stated within that particular
funding opportunity announcement.
If something is deemed non responsive,it that means it doesn't satisfy the
terms of that funding announcement.
And if that application is deemed nonresponsive, it will not be reviewed and
(15:05):
will most likely need to be withdrawn.
So it'll be withdrawn and you'llneed to revise application and then
submit again at some other time point.
So, for example, one type of nonresponsive application that we
often see is a clinical trial thatmay be submitted to a FOA that
says clinical trials not allowed.
So in that case, you're proposingsome sort of clinical trial research,
(15:26):
clearly to something that says thatclinical trials are not allowed.
When that application is reviewed,it will be deemed non responsive
and most likely withdrawn.
Marguerite Matt (15:34):
So what happens if an application is incomplete or
it does not follow the instructionsof application submission?
Karrah (15:42):
Completeness is actually something that is assessed by the division
of receipt referral, DRR and Carlos.
And I thought it might be betterto actually go a little bit into
what they're actually lookingfor to assess completeness.
So we did come up with a few itemsthat we just wanted to discuss.
And then we'll addressthe question at hand.
Essentially, when DRR receives anapplication, they have a pretty hard job.
(16:05):
They receive over 100,000 applicationsa year, and every single one
gets assessed for completenessand compliance with the FOA.
Specifically, some of the things theylook for is whether or not the application
even fits the NINDS or specificallyNIH mission--we do get applications
that are not relevant to NIH at all.
They also look for, "Is the applicanteligible for the FOA?" Specifically
(16:27):
for fellows, this would be onebecause the eligibility criteria
really differs between FOAs.
They also look at, "Does the applicationinclude information in inappropriate
places or locations to try andcircumvent page limits?" This is
something that happens all the time.
The application will be withdrawnif this happens, if they
find this in the application.
Laur (16:48):
So one big example of that that we see sometimes is the appendix.
The appendix rules changed afew years back to severely limit
what's allowed in the appendix.
And sometimes people try toput information in there, and
that's considered trying tocircumvent the page limits.
And it will be rejected.
And we at NINDS have no control...
Marguerite Matthews (17:09):
No control
Laur (17:10):
...we can beg on our knees that the application be allowed to come
in and CSR just won't let them do it.
Karrah Benson (17:16):
I would absolutely agree with that.
We see it happen a lot and there isan application guide that can be found
on the NIH website, and I would highlyrecommend using that with the FOA.
But do remember that instructions inthe FOA do trump the application guide.
So if there is something written toinclude in the appendix or that you can
include the appendix, that does overridewhat's written in the application guide,
(17:37):
and if you have questions, you canalways ask a program director as well.
Some of the other things that they lookfor are does the application include
information and all critical sections?
Is it a complete application?
If it's missing information,it will be withdrawn.
They additionally, look at doesthe application contains sufficient
information for the review group toevaluate scientific and technical merit?
(18:00):
Does the applicant have anotherapplication with essentially the
same content currently under review?
And we'll cover that a littlebit more later, but that is
a really important question.
Another thing they look for is,does the application adhere to the
specific instructions of the FOA?
And lastly, there are a fewother important aspects of grant
applications, such as information onhuman subjects and vertebrate animals
(18:24):
and plans for resource sharing.
But these are scrutinized atother stages of the grant process.
And to go back to the question at handthat we were initially asked, which
is what happens if your applicationis deemed incomplete or if your
application did not follow instructions?
That application will not be reviewedand will actually be withdrawn, and
applicants will receive a notificationin their ERA Commons account on I would
(18:48):
like to add one plug here if I can.
If the error is caught earlyenough, hint, hint, which means the
application was actually submittedwell in advance of the receipt date,
the applicant may have enough timeto resubmit for the same cycle.
And if not, the applicant willhave to wait till the next council
round and that's completely outof our hands to do anything about.
(19:09):
So, would highly encourage applicantsto submit applications early on.
Don't look at that five o'clock PMreceipt date deadline as the time to
submit a an application, but actuallylook at that as the time your error
free application needs to be submitted.
Marguerite (19:26):
That's great advice.
Lauren Ullrich (19:27):
So, you know, thinking about planning out your
submission, How long does it takebetween when somebody applies and when
they're likely to get their award?
Carl (19:39):
I guess the answer to that would be approximately 6 to 9 months.
Lauren Ullric (19:43):
And so that means that applicants are probably not
gonna be able to resubmit theirapplication for the exact next cycle
Carlos Fa (19:52):
Right, and that topic of resubmission is I guess could
be said to be a technical one asto what that term actually means.
So right, if it's your first application,if you don't get the award, then you'll
probably have a resubmission, and thatinitial application is deemed in A0, and
that recent mission will be deemed in A1.
(20:15):
Now, NIH no longer limits the numberof times you can submit an application
with essentially the same content,but after that resubmission, if that
application doesn't get awarded,you'll have to start a new submission.
So you can't just keep on actuallyresubmitting the same grant over and
over, you will have to start a newsubmission after the resubmission.
(20:38):
So when you are ready to resubmit yourapplication if your initial application
was not awarded, you should definitelycontact your assigned program officer
from guidance and addressing thecomments in your summary statement.
Another important point to keepin mind is that even though you
are allowed to resubmit the samecontent, it is not allowable to
(20:59):
have overlapping at applicationsunder review at the same time.
And there are specific, detailed documentsthat provide guidance on what that means.
And so this one particular document thatyou should refer to as NOT-OD-14 -074
Marguerite Matthews (21:18):
And we'll talk a little bit more about the
re submission process on whether ornot you should resubmit or submit a
new application in later episodes.
Lauren Ullrich (21:25):
Right.
Karrah Bens (21:26):
I would like to add one item of clarification, and that is
once an application is under review,it is still in that status until the
summary statement is actually released.
We do have folks who, once thereview has concluded, will submit
something in the days after.
But as long as the summary statementhas not been released, that application
is still under review and your newapplication or your new submission
(21:50):
will be withdrawn because it'stechnically an illegal submission cause
you actually have two applicationsunder review at the same time.
Lauren Ullrich (21:56):
Right.
We want you to be able to takeinto account the feedback from
the reviewers before you are ableto submit that application again.
Carlos Faraco (22:05):
Correct.
And then once you are ready to submit,we definitely urge you to contact
your assigned program officer forguidance and addressing the comments
you received in your summary statement.
Marguerite Matthews (22:22):
Well, thank you both for being here to
share your wisdom with us today.
Can I ask each of you for one last pieceof parting advice for our listeners?
Karrah Benson (22:31):
We have more than piece of advice.
Lauren Ullrich (22:34):
That is also ok
Ma (22:35):
Breaking the rules, alright!
Carlos Faraco (22:36):
So many things!
Karrah Benso (22:38):
So I would say the number one suggestion I have is for
applicants to reach out to programstaff early on in the planning stages
of your application submission.
There's no such thing as too early.
And it's in everyone's best interestfor you to reach out to a program
director, cause they can not only helpyou find the appropriate IC and the
appropriate staff here at NINDS ormaybe on another IC, but also make sure
(23:02):
you're applying to the correct FOA.
It's really unfortunate with the amount oftime that everyone puts into applications
and to see it withdrawn because itwasn't submitted to the right FOA or
didn't meet the eligibility requirementsis really disheartening for us, too.
I'm sure more so on the receiving end,but we want applications to come in.
(23:23):
We want the best science to be funded,so give yourself the best shot at
that and reach out to program staff.
They're they're here to help you.
Marguerite Matthews (23:30):
We probably sound like broken records.
But you will hear this, you've heardthis before on the podcast, you will
continue to hear this on the podcast.
The tagline should be building up thenerve contact your program officer first.
Karrah B (23:43):
if you've already done so congratulations, hats off to you.
Because you've already taken the firstbest step you can do for yourself.
But I would not keep reiteratingit if we did not have applications
withdrawn for this all the time.
Carlos Faraco (23:56):
Yeah, and before even contacting a program officer.
You think that bestsuits your application.
Make sure to read the FOA correctlyso that you know that the institute
that you think might best suit yourresearch is actually participating
in that funding announcement.
Lauren Ullrich (24:11):
Right and that's the first thing in the FOA, so
there's no excuse to skip it.
Marguerite Matthews (24:14):
Right.
Carlos Fara (24:15):
And and again, like I mentioned earlier, right, make
sure that you are submitting to aFOA that actually will accept the
type of study you're proposing.
So if you have a clinical trialstudy, make sure that that
FOA accepts clinical trials.
We get this all the time.
Lauren Ullric (24:31):
And if you're not sure if you have a clinical trial,
you can also ask your program officer
Carlos Faraco (24:34):
You can ask your program officer
Marguerite Matthews (24:36):
And a lot of the funding announcements now
have it boldly in the title ofthe actual funding announcement.
Carlos Faraco (24:43):
And people still get this wrong.
Marguerite Matthew (24:44):
People still get it wrong, so be sure to read!
Reading is fundamental.
Karrah Benson (24:48):
And I would also encourage you before submission, part
of submission, to check back with theFOA itself and make sure no notices or
changes have happened in the meantime.
Notices cannot affect a FOA within30 days of the receipt date.
So at least 30 days out, I wouldjust double check and make sure
that no other notices have come.
(25:09):
If any notices are issued in theinterim, they will not be able
to take effect for that upcomingreceipt date if it's within 30 days.
But we do our best to try and make thingsas transparent as possible, and we're not
trying to trick applicants with notices.
Sometimes things are unavoidableand in the best interest of
applicants that we put notices out.
But for due diligence purposes, I wouldjust check back and make sure that no
(25:32):
notices have been issued an interim
Carlos F (25:34):
And another point that we briefly touched on before was with
applications being non responsive.
So make sure that when you read thefunding announcement that you look
over those review criteria and inyour application you specifically
respond to those review criteria.
Okay, just--otherwise, you'renot addressing what the award is
(25:55):
is wanting to address, and youmight be deemed not responsive.
Karrah Benson (25:59):
And I would also say, figure out issues early on.
Maybe not so applicable for fellowshipapplicants, but there are some
circumstances where there are budgetrequirements; maybe you need advanced
permission for an application to comein, if the application has direct
costs greater than 500,000 in one year.
This information is specificallystated in the FOA, but there are
(26:20):
absolutely circumstances which youmay need prior approval to come in.
So again, I'm gonna refer you to goback to your program director and
just make sure that you have--thatyou fit all of the criteria and
you have all the approvals youneed to submit an application.
In addition, there some other importantaspects of the FOA what that I would
(26:41):
make sure to pay close attentionto: you should consider implications
if you're a new investigatoror from a foreign institution.
Sometimes there are specific instructionsand criteria that needs to be met and
can delay your award if it's not met.
Also, consider if your projectincludes human subjects of
vertebrate animals because thereare additional steps that need to
(27:01):
be taken when this is the situation.
Carl (27:05):
And I guess the last thing to keep in mind and which is something
that I think most people have heard andprobably something that we encountered
as when we were applicants, is thatreally should submit your application
well ahead of the receipt date.
You don't want to be submittingyour application at 5 p.m. Eastern
time the day that it's due, becausetypically there is an error somewhere.
(27:28):
Maybe you didn't commit thaterror, maybe there's an error
on the admin side, who knows?
There is likely going to be some errorthat's going to have to be corrected.
And the last thing you want to be doingis stressing that your application
is not going to be submitted ontime after you've worked on this
for you know, who knows how long,
Marguerite M (27:43):
Hopefully, months!
Carlos Faraco (27:44):
Hopefully months!
Karrah Ben (27:46):
I would just keep in mind, too, CSR and Division of receipt
and referral, they sort through over100,000 applications and the closer to the
receipt date you are, the larger numberof applications are actually reviewing.
And so they try to get throughthese as timely as they can
and as efficiently as they can.
But if you submit far in advanceof the deadline, there's a higher
(28:07):
likelihood that any errors willbe found early on in the process.
And you may have the opportunityto fix those errors and still
resubmit for the same cycle.
So I know we keep kind of reiteratingthis, but I these are very common
errors that happen every day.
And like I said, we're here to help andwe want these applications to come in.
(28:27):
We want the best science to befunded and seeing things not come
through because of small errors.
We're not trying to make lifemore difficult for everybody.
We want an even playingfield for everybody
Marguer (28:37):
Yes, help us, help you.
Carlos Farac (28:39):
And if there is an error that you do find and you have
submitted ahead of time, well, youhave, I believe, 48 hours correct?
to resubmit that and correct those errors.
Marguerite Matthews (28:49):
Lauren, do you have any advice?
Lauren Ullrich (28:50):
I would say, you know, Carlos stole the advice
that I was going to give, so...
Marguerite Matthews (28:56):
Snatched it right out of your brain
Lauren U (28:56):
...And so I would say, um, the other player in this process
that we haven't talked about that muchis the grants office at your institution.
Because that is often the personthat actually hits submit.
It's no longer you putting your stuffinto an envelope and sending it off
to the postal service by yourself
Marguerite Matth (29:16):
handing it off
Laure (29:17):
Now there's an additional person, and we have had situations
where a draft of the application wasuploaded instead of the final copy.
And because it wasn't submittedearly enough, it wasn't caught.
And that was actually what went throughreview, which is, like, you know,
the nightmare scenario that wakesyou up in the middle of the night.
And so the earlier you submit, the moretime you have to look over that final
(29:41):
copy that mirrors what the reviewerswill see, and you can check and make
sure that it that it looks right.
What about you, Marguerite?
Marguerite Matthe (29:49):
I can imagine that our listeners might be very
overwhelmed with the thought ofsomething bad happening after they've
hit submit or their business officialat their university has hit submit.
But I just want to encourageyou to be confident in the
work that you have put in.
Make yourself a checklist.
Take things off of the FOA, put it ina way that you will look through it and
(30:10):
be able to go through your application.
And it's important to readthings carefully, but there
are a lot of things to read.
Just take your time and the more timeyou give yourself to prepare your
application, the more likely you're goingto be able to submit something that is
in compliance that is responsive, thatdoes meet the eligibility criteria, that
does get assigned to the right place.
(30:31):
Many people submit their applicationssuccessfully and many people get awards.
So it's something that can happen,but you just want to ensure that you
are doing everything that you can inyour power to make sure that you make
your life easier and then you allowus, that once it reaches us here at
NIH that we are able to make sure thatyou're getting a good review and things
(30:54):
can go smoothly from that point on.
Karrah Benson (30:56):
And I'd like to just add to that.
We have a much larger percentageof the applications that do
come through without problems.
We're just, you know, touchingon some of the problems because
we hope for the day where everyapplication comes through completed
Marguerite Matthews (31:10):
Exactly
Karrah B (31:10):
and none are sent back or rejected for any minor errors.
That is our dream.
Lauren Ullrich (31:16):
Mmhmm
Karrah Be (31:17):
For every application to come through problem free.
Marguerite Matthe (31:20):
We do want to see your application make it all
the way through the review process.
So again, help us help you.
Try to be as diligent as youcan on your end, and you know
we'll take it from there.
Lauren Ul (31:37):
So that's all we have time for today on Building up The Nerve.
So thank you again to our guests thisweek for sharing their expertise and
thank you to program director BobRiddle for our theme song and music.
We'll see you next time whenwe tackle scientific review.
You confined past episodes of thispodcast and many more grant application
resources on the web at NINDS.nih.gov.
Marguerite Mat (31:59):
You can email us your questions at NINDSNervePod@nih.gov.
Make sure you subscribe to the podcaston Apple podcasts or your favorite
podcast app so you don't miss an episode.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome to the National Institute of Neurological Disorders
and Stroke's Building up the Nerve,a podcast for neuroscience trainees
that takes you through the life cycleof a grant from idea to award at NINDS
with the people who make it happen.
We know that applying for NIH fundingcan be daunting, but we're here to help.
It's our job.
Marguerite Matthews (00:21):
Hi, I'm Marguerite Matthews, a health
program specialist at NINDS.
Lauren Ullrich (00:24):
And I'm Lauren Ullrich, a scientific program manager
at NINDS, and we're your hosts.
Marguerite Matthews (00:30):
Last time we discussed putting
together the application.
Today, we're going to talk about whathappens after you hit submit with the
receipt and referral process, whereapplications are assigned to an NIH
Institute, a program directors portfolioand a study section for review.
Before we start, I'll say ourdisclaimer: everything we talk about
may only be relevant for NINDS.
(00:52):
If you're applying to a different NIHinstitute or center, it's always best
to check with them about their policies.
Lauren Ullrich (00:59):
So this may be dating myself a little bit, but
did you know I submitted my firstfellowship application by mail?
Marguerite Matthews (01:04):
And by mail do you mean, like Postal service?
Lauren Ullrich (01:06):
Postal service!
Marguerite Matthews (01:06):
Or like a carrier pigeon?
Lauren Ullrich (01:09):
[Laughter] We're the same age I think, Marguerite...
Marguerite Matthews (01:14):
I know, I'm just kidding.
Lauren Ullrich (01:15):
...so don't be throwing punches here.
Um, yeah, actually.
And so I actually knew people atGeorgetown that would drive it over
to NIH because they were too closeto the deadline, the five PM deadline
and needed to get it in, and theywould physically hand it to someone.
Marguerite Matthews (01:28):
Wow, What a time to be alive.
[laughter]
Lauren Ullr (01:38):
So joining us today are Karrah Benson, our referral
program specialist, and Dr CarlosFaraco a health program specialist
in the division of clinical research.
So let's start with introductions.
Karrah?
Karrah B (01:51):
Hi, I'm Karrah Benson, I actually wear two hats at NINDS.
So I am the guide liaison, and I'malso a receipt and referral specialist.
There are two of us on thereceipt and referral end, Maureen
Hambrecht would be my co partner.
I basically help publish fundingopportunity announcements and notices
on the front end and then on thereceipt and referral end, I help sort
(02:12):
applications with program directorsonce they're signed to NINDS.
And some of what I do with receiptand referral is also negotiating the
transfer of applications between ICs.
As for how long I've been with NINDS, It'sactually been seven years, but I've been
in my current position for three and priorto this current position I'm in, I used to
(02:34):
work with the epilepsy therapy screeningprogram and I was the program coordinator
in the division of translational research.
And some hobbies that I h (02:42):
I'm a big fan of soccer, especially women's
soccer, love the World Cup this summer.
I love going to concerts, specificallycountry concerts, but any concerts
And I enjoy doing activities outdoorsspecifically with my my pit bull Zeus and
if you know me here, you probably knowmore about my dog than you do about me.
Lauren Ull (03:03):
I cannot believe you didn't mention the Capitals, Karrah.
Marguerite Matthew (03:05):
I also can't believe you didn't mention that.
I thought that was gonnabe thing number one.
Karrah Benson (03:10):
That's my shared hobby with my mom.
So it's more her hobby, and I takeinterest in it because of her.
But she's--I don't know what happened.
She just went Caps crazy about adecade ago and never looked back.
Lauren Ullrich (03:24):
Carlos?
Carlos (03:25):
So as Lauren mentioned, I'm a health program specialist in
the division of clinical research.
And that means I wear a lot of hats and doa lot of different things, but basically
I help the program directors manage andtrack various programmatic activities.
And I also help with some of ourclinical networks, including our
stroke and pain clinical networks.
(03:46):
I've only been here for 10 months.
I'm still learning the ropes.
There is a lot to learn, as Ithink everybody in this room knows.
And so hopefully you know, another yearor two I'll have everything figured out.
Marguerite Matthews (03:58):
Or not.
This is a huge place!
Lauren U (04:00):
They just change it on you and you've got something new to learn
Marguerite (04:04):
Always a challenge.
Carl (04:06):
And so, before starting at NINDS, I was actually a AAAS science and
technology policy fellow at the Officeof Investigative and Forensic Sciences
within the National Institute of Justice,which, as people probably do not know,
is actually a research arm of the DOJ.
And before there I was a postdocfor about three and 1/2 years at the
(04:27):
Vanderbilt University Institute ofImaging Science, and I worked with Manus
Donahue developing MR acquisitions andanalyses to stratify stroke risk and
patients with intracranial stenosis.
And as far as what I like to do outsideof work, well, I would say lots of things.
I like to ride mymotorcycle on the racetrack.
(04:48):
I play guitar.
I particularly enjoy going todeath metal concerts and um
Marguerite Matthews (04:53):
[laughter]
Carlos Faraco (04:53):
yes, some some people find that funny
Marguerite Matthews (04:57):
To know Carlos is to know why that is funny
Carlos Faraco (04:59):
Exactly.
And I also try to keep pretty active,I like weightlifting, running, cycling.
And most importantly, I love to cook.
Marguerite Matthews (05:07):
What's your favorite type of food to cook?
Carlos Faraco (05:10):
I would say, probably Thai food.
And I'm Cuban, sodefinitely Cuban food too.
Lauren Ullrich (05:15):
Don't want to get disowned here.
Marguerite Matthews (05:16):
Right.
All right.
So can you tell us a littleabout how NIH determines which
IC an application is assigned to?
Karrah Benso (05:29):
So that's actually a bit of a complicated answer.
While many NIH policies give the divisionof receipt referral the ability to
determine assignments, they actuallywork with SROs, with program officers,
and with applicants, to reach theinstitute and program staff that's best
suited to be assigned to an application.
(05:50):
Additionally, I would say that themost important factor limiting which
institute or center can be assignedto an application is whether those
ICs are actually participating inthe funding opportunity announcement.
I would just say that a lot ofapplications that we receive are in
response to specific FOAs and folks don'tnecessarily check to see whether those
institutes are participating in that FOA.
(06:11):
And unfortunately, sometimes that canchange while the FOA is active as well.
So it's important to just check forguide notices and any changes in the
FOA because maybe when you set outto submit an application and IC is
participating in a FOA and then atthe time where you actually go to
submit, that's no longer the case.
Lauren Ull (06:30):
And IC can also join after the fact too, so you might
see a FOA and say, oh, you know,my institutes not participating.
And then they join later, and you mightmiss out if you don't pay attention.
Karrah (06:41):
Yeah, and we often get a lot of questions about dual assignments,
too, which can be confusing to folks.
In some cases, applications can receivea dual assignment and, as you know, a
participating IC is identified for primaryassignment for funding consideration
based on the focus of the applicationand the mission relevance of the IC.
(07:02):
Dual assignments acknowledge a sharedinterest in a topic and make all
appropriate ICs aware of the application.
I'd also like to point out that adual assignment does not necessarily
increase the chance of an award,which confuses some applicants.
The frequency of a duel assignmentleading to a change to primary and
award is actually less than 2%.
(07:23):
Some applicants do ask us howmuch of an application is read
when making an IC assignment.
And the honest answer is as muchof the application as needed
to make that determination.
Referral staff have accessto the entire application.
In many cases, they concentrate onthe abstract and specific aims when
making the assignment with attentionalso paid to the research strategy.
(07:46):
Requests made by investigatorsand the assignment of previous
applications are also considered.
So, referral staff regularly discussthe assignment of applications and
how to handle unusual situations.
Laure (07:58):
So, if there's a specific IC or a specific study section that you
think your application should go to,how can you ask for that assignment and
does NIH have to abide by that request?
Carlos Fa (08:12):
So ask for a specific IC or study section assignment.
You can use what's called theassignment request form, and that's
available to all applicants whenthey submit their applications.
And NIH does actually encourageall applicants to use this.
And so, aside from requesting a specificIC, right, you can also direct your
application to a particular studysection or scientific review group, and
(08:34):
you can provide NIH with informationto help us conduct that review.
So, for example, the PI can use thisform to even describe the type of
expertise needed to review his or herapplication and notify NIH of potential
reviewers who they may feel mightbe in conflict with the application.
However, there are a few caveats towhen this form is actually applicable.
(08:54):
So, if you're responding to a specificrequest for applications or RFA, the
review location for that applicationhas already been predetermined.
So it would mean nothing in that case,in terms of the review assignment.
Karrah Benson (09:06):
Ah, yes.
So just to add to that a lot oftimes, folks do the effort of reaching
out to program staff in advanceof their submission and they don't
include that in their cover letter.
And despite the fact that the assignmentrequest form is the preferred method
to request an IC assignment, if youhave worked with a program director
in advance of submission, feel freeto include that in the cover letter.
(09:28):
It can help with a lot of parts of theprocess of choosing the appropriate IC.
But I find there are definitelyoccasions where people do all this
work with the program director anddon't include it, and we get an email
later on down the road saying, Hey, youknow, I worked with this person, why
wasn't my application assigned here?
And we're not always, youknow, aware of that in advance.
(09:49):
Occasionally we can be.
But some of the program directors gethundreds of thousands of requests,
so it's important just to includeas much information as possible to
help make the process goes smoothly.
Carlos Far (10:01):
And so to answer the second part of the question then,
which is does NIH abide by the request?
The answer is that NIH does try toabide by that request and consider
whatever that applicant is saying.
However, each application is examinedby a team of NIH experts and depending
on the nature of the research, thatICs participating in the funding
announcement, as well as the requirementsof that funding announcement, and the
(10:22):
IC mission relevance, applications mightbe given to a different IC than the
one the applicant actually requested.
Lauren U (10:29):
Right and and reaching out beforehand can kind of help
avoid surprises like that, becauseyou'll be in a dialogue with program
directors, sometimes at multipleinstitutes, to try and find the
best fit before you even submit.
And so because this podcast is directedmostly at trainees, we like to ask, you
know, are there any differences in thispart of the process when it comes to
(10:50):
fellowships or career development awards?
Karra (10:52):
Specifically for fellows, I would absolutely look at the eligibility
criteria in the FOAs because its veryspecific and does vary by institute.
So I would just make sure to touchbase with a program director for the
IC you are interested in and justmake sure that you are eligible at
the time of submission for the FOA.
Carlos F (11:12):
For example, if you're trying to get some sort of post
doc training award, you might havea certain time period in which you
could have been a postdoc, but maybeyou took a break in between there.
So you need to figure outwhether that break factors
into that funding announcement.
Lauren Ul (11:26):
Yes, and specifically for postdoc for example, NINDS has
a separate FOA, we don't participateon the parent F32 and it has very
different eligibility criteria.
And we're the only onessigned on to that FOA.
And so if you're applying to us, you'reapplying to us, and you better make
sure that you fall within our mission,otherwise you might get some bad news.
Marguerite M (11:49):
So we've discussed a little bit about talking with program
officers and program directors, andwe've had a chance to talk with some
program directors on the podcast.
How does NINDS decide which programdirectors hold which grants?
So basically what grants are in theirportfolio and what is a grant portfolio?
Karrah (12:08):
This is a good question.
This is an answer thatmaybe changes all the time.
We're constantly changingportfolios and have new staff on
boarding and etcetera, etcetera.
Program directors at NINDs overseethe research activities in one or
more part of the institute's researchfunding program, managing a portfolio
of grants, contracts and coordinatingprogram efforts on these specifically
(12:33):
defined areas of neuroscience research.
Applicants can actuallyvisit the NINDS website.
We actually have a page called Who Are We?
And on this page they will be ableto view program directors and their
specific research areas that areassociated with each of them and are
also able to use the matchmaker tool.
That's with the NIH Reporter.
I would highly recommend using that,maybe not necessarily to find a program
(12:56):
director, but it's a good place to getstarted when you're looking for which
IC your research area might fall under.
And additionally, you can alsolook up with the matchmaker tool,
program directors and see similarapplications that have been awarded
and are under their portfolios.
Additionally, as applications comein each day, they're assigned based
on research area, and it's up tothe program directors to make the
(13:17):
final decision on who's portfolioand application actually falls under.
Lauren Ull (13:21):
And the way that the fellowships and the career development
awards work, is that they--the actualapplication will live in the scientific
portfolio with the scientific programdirector, but the OPEN office and
the Training Office work very closelywith that scientific program officer.
(13:42):
And also the applicants tohelp them put together the
best application that they can.
Marguerite Matthews (13:47):
Right.
So for our audience, if you're atrainee, you may often be speaking with
multiple people in different officesthat are trying to make sure that
both the science and the training andmentoring plans in an application are
where they should be for submission.
Lauren Ul (14:04):
So, sometimes we hear NIH officials talk about an application
being "non responsive" to an FOA.
So what does that mean?
And what happens if your applicationis deemed non responsive?
Carlos Farac (14:19):
So it's actually a great question because as an applicant
you might imagine that you've doneeverything correctly, and then all
of a sudden, you get a notice thatyour application is non responsive.
And of course you're verysurprised because, hey, I
just did everything correctly.
What's wrong?
So, applications that are submittedto an RFA, again, a request for
application, or what is called anotice of special interests or a NOSI,
(14:43):
those applications can actually beassessed for being non-responsive.
And so, responsiveness is a determinationof whether or not an application
responds to or meets the needs orrequirements stated within that particular
funding opportunity announcement.
If something is deemed non responsive,it that means it doesn't satisfy the
terms of that funding announcement.
And if that application is deemed nonresponsive, it will not be reviewed and
(15:05):
will most likely need to be withdrawn.
So it'll be withdrawn and you'llneed to revise application and then
submit again at some other time point.
So, for example, one type of nonresponsive application that we
often see is a clinical trial thatmay be submitted to a FOA that
says clinical trials not allowed.
So in that case, you're proposingsome sort of clinical trial research,
(15:26):
clearly to something that says thatclinical trials are not allowed.
When that application is reviewed,it will be deemed non responsive
and most likely withdrawn.
Marguerite Matt (15:34):
So what happens if an application is incomplete or
it does not follow the instructionsof application submission?
Karrah (15:42):
Completeness is actually something that is assessed by the division
of receipt referral, DRR and Carlos.
And I thought it might be betterto actually go a little bit into
what they're actually lookingfor to assess completeness.
So we did come up with a few itemsthat we just wanted to discuss.
And then we'll addressthe question at hand.
Essentially, when DRR receives anapplication, they have a pretty hard job.
(16:05):
They receive over 100,000 applicationsa year, and every single one
gets assessed for completenessand compliance with the FOA.
Specifically, some of the things theylook for is whether or not the application
even fits the NINDS or specificallyNIH mission--we do get applications
that are not relevant to NIH at all.
They also look for, "Is the applicanteligible for the FOA?" Specifically
(16:27):
for fellows, this would be onebecause the eligibility criteria
really differs between FOAs.
They also look at, "Does the applicationinclude information in inappropriate
places or locations to try andcircumvent page limits?" This is
something that happens all the time.
The application will be withdrawnif this happens, if they
find this in the application.
Laur (16:48):
So one big example of that that we see sometimes is the appendix.
The appendix rules changed afew years back to severely limit
what's allowed in the appendix.
And sometimes people try toput information in there, and
that's considered trying tocircumvent the page limits.
And it will be rejected.
And we at NINDS have no control...
Marguerite Matthews (17:09):
No control
Laur (17:10):
...we can beg on our knees that the application be allowed to come
in and CSR just won't let them do it.
Karrah Benson (17:16):
I would absolutely agree with that.
We see it happen a lot and there isan application guide that can be found
on the NIH website, and I would highlyrecommend using that with the FOA.
But do remember that instructions inthe FOA do trump the application guide.
So if there is something written toinclude in the appendix or that you can
include the appendix, that does overridewhat's written in the application guide,
(17:37):
and if you have questions, you canalways ask a program director as well.
Some of the other things that they lookfor are does the application include
information and all critical sections?
Is it a complete application?
If it's missing information,it will be withdrawn.
They additionally, look at doesthe application contains sufficient
information for the review group toevaluate scientific and technical merit?
(18:00):
Does the applicant have anotherapplication with essentially the
same content currently under review?
And we'll cover that a littlebit more later, but that is
a really important question.
Another thing they look for is,does the application adhere to the
specific instructions of the FOA?
And lastly, there are a fewother important aspects of grant
applications, such as information onhuman subjects and vertebrate animals
(18:24):
and plans for resource sharing.
But these are scrutinized atother stages of the grant process.
And to go back to the question at handthat we were initially asked, which
is what happens if your applicationis deemed incomplete or if your
application did not follow instructions?
That application will not be reviewedand will actually be withdrawn, and
applicants will receive a notificationin their ERA Commons account on I would
(18:48):
like to add one plug here if I can.
If the error is caught earlyenough, hint, hint, which means the
application was actually submittedwell in advance of the receipt date,
the applicant may have enough timeto resubmit for the same cycle.
And if not, the applicant willhave to wait till the next council
round and that's completely outof our hands to do anything about.
(19:09):
So, would highly encourage applicantsto submit applications early on.
Don't look at that five o'clock PMreceipt date deadline as the time to
submit a an application, but actuallylook at that as the time your error
free application needs to be submitted.
Marguerite (19:26):
That's great advice.
Lauren Ullrich (19:27):
So, you know, thinking about planning out your
submission, How long does it takebetween when somebody applies and when
they're likely to get their award?
Carl (19:39):
I guess the answer to that would be approximately 6 to 9 months.
Lauren Ullric (19:43):
And so that means that applicants are probably not
gonna be able to resubmit theirapplication for the exact next cycle
Carlos Fa (19:52):
Right, and that topic of resubmission is I guess could
be said to be a technical one asto what that term actually means.
So right, if it's your first application,if you don't get the award, then you'll
probably have a resubmission, and thatinitial application is deemed in A0, and
that recent mission will be deemed in A1.
(20:15):
Now, NIH no longer limits the numberof times you can submit an application
with essentially the same content,but after that resubmission, if that
application doesn't get awarded,you'll have to start a new submission.
So you can't just keep on actuallyresubmitting the same grant over and
over, you will have to start a newsubmission after the resubmission.
(20:38):
So when you are ready to resubmit yourapplication if your initial application
was not awarded, you should definitelycontact your assigned program officer
from guidance and addressing thecomments in your summary statement.
Another important point to keepin mind is that even though you
are allowed to resubmit the samecontent, it is not allowable to
(20:59):
have overlapping at applicationsunder review at the same time.
And there are specific, detailed documentsthat provide guidance on what that means.
And so this one particular document thatyou should refer to as NOT-OD-14 -074
Marguerite Matthews (21:18):
And we'll talk a little bit more about the
re submission process on whether ornot you should resubmit or submit a
new application in later episodes.
Lauren Ullrich (21:25):
Right.
Karrah Bens (21:26):
I would like to add one item of clarification, and that is
once an application is under review,it is still in that status until the
summary statement is actually released.
We do have folks who, once thereview has concluded, will submit
something in the days after.
But as long as the summary statementhas not been released, that application
is still under review and your newapplication or your new submission
(21:50):
will be withdrawn because it'stechnically an illegal submission cause
you actually have two applicationsunder review at the same time.
Lauren Ullrich (21:56):
Right.
We want you to be able to takeinto account the feedback from
the reviewers before you are ableto submit that application again.
Carlos Faraco (22:05):
Correct.
And then once you are ready to submit,we definitely urge you to contact
your assigned program officer forguidance and addressing the comments
you received in your summary statement.
Marguerite Matthews (22:22):
Well, thank you both for being here to
share your wisdom with us today.
Can I ask each of you for one last pieceof parting advice for our listeners?
Karrah Benson (22:31):
We have more than piece of advice.
Lauren Ullrich (22:34):
That is also ok
Ma (22:35):
Breaking the rules, alright!
Carlos Faraco (22:36):
So many things!
Karrah Benso (22:38):
So I would say the number one suggestion I have is for
applicants to reach out to programstaff early on in the planning stages
of your application submission.
There's no such thing as too early.
And it's in everyone's best interestfor you to reach out to a program
director, cause they can not only helpyou find the appropriate IC and the
appropriate staff here at NINDS ormaybe on another IC, but also make sure
(23:02):
you're applying to the correct FOA.
It's really unfortunate with the amount oftime that everyone puts into applications
and to see it withdrawn because itwasn't submitted to the right FOA or
didn't meet the eligibility requirementsis really disheartening for us, too.
I'm sure more so on the receiving end,but we want applications to come in.
(23:23):
We want the best science to be funded,so give yourself the best shot at
that and reach out to program staff.
They're they're here to help you.
Marguerite Matthews (23:30):
We probably sound like broken records.
But you will hear this, you've heardthis before on the podcast, you will
continue to hear this on the podcast.
The tagline should be building up thenerve contact your program officer first.
Karrah B (23:43):
if you've already done so congratulations, hats off to you.
Because you've already taken the firstbest step you can do for yourself.
But I would not keep reiteratingit if we did not have applications
withdrawn for this all the time.
Carlos Faraco (23:56):
Yeah, and before even contacting a program officer.
You think that bestsuits your application.
Make sure to read the FOA correctlyso that you know that the institute
that you think might best suit yourresearch is actually participating
in that funding announcement.
Lauren Ullrich (24:11):
Right and that's the first thing in the FOA, so
there's no excuse to skip it.
Marguerite Matthews (24:14):
Right.
Carlos Fara (24:15):
And and again, like I mentioned earlier, right, make
sure that you are submitting to aFOA that actually will accept the
type of study you're proposing.
So if you have a clinical trialstudy, make sure that that
FOA accepts clinical trials.
We get this all the time.
Lauren Ullric (24:31):
And if you're not sure if you have a clinical trial,
you can also ask your program officer
Carlos Faraco (24:34):
You can ask your program officer
Marguerite Matthews (24:36):
And a lot of the funding announcements now
have it boldly in the title ofthe actual funding announcement.
Carlos Faraco (24:43):
And people still get this wrong.
Marguerite Matthew (24:44):
People still get it wrong, so be sure to read!
Reading is fundamental.
Karrah Benson (24:48):
And I would also encourage you before submission, part
of submission, to check back with theFOA itself and make sure no notices or
changes have happened in the meantime.
Notices cannot affect a FOA within30 days of the receipt date.
So at least 30 days out, I wouldjust double check and make sure
that no other notices have come.
(25:09):
If any notices are issued in theinterim, they will not be able
to take effect for that upcomingreceipt date if it's within 30 days.
But we do our best to try and make thingsas transparent as possible, and we're not
trying to trick applicants with notices.
Sometimes things are unavoidableand in the best interest of
applicants that we put notices out.
But for due diligence purposes, I wouldjust check back and make sure that no
(25:32):
notices have been issued an interim
Carlos F (25:34):
And another point that we briefly touched on before was with
applications being non responsive.
So make sure that when you read thefunding announcement that you look
over those review criteria and inyour application you specifically
respond to those review criteria.
Okay, just--otherwise, you'renot addressing what the award is
(25:55):
is wanting to address, and youmight be deemed not responsive.
Karrah Benson (25:59):
And I would also say, figure out issues early on.
Maybe not so applicable for fellowshipapplicants, but there are some
circumstances where there are budgetrequirements; maybe you need advanced
permission for an application to comein, if the application has direct
costs greater than 500,000 in one year.
This information is specificallystated in the FOA, but there are
(26:20):
absolutely circumstances which youmay need prior approval to come in.
So again, I'm gonna refer you to goback to your program director and
just make sure that you have--thatyou fit all of the criteria and
you have all the approvals youneed to submit an application.
In addition, there some other importantaspects of the FOA what that I would
(26:41):
make sure to pay close attentionto: you should consider implications
if you're a new investigatoror from a foreign institution.
Sometimes there are specific instructionsand criteria that needs to be met and
can delay your award if it's not met.
Also, consider if your projectincludes human subjects of
vertebrate animals because thereare additional steps that need to
(27:01):
be taken when this is the situation.
Carl (27:05):
And I guess the last thing to keep in mind and which is something
that I think most people have heard andprobably something that we encountered
as when we were applicants, is thatreally should submit your application
well ahead of the receipt date.
You don't want to be submittingyour application at 5 p.m. Eastern
time the day that it's due, becausetypically there is an error somewhere.
(27:28):
Maybe you didn't commit thaterror, maybe there's an error
on the admin side, who knows?
There is likely going to be some errorthat's going to have to be corrected.
And the last thing you want to be doingis stressing that your application
is not going to be submitted ontime after you've worked on this
for you know, who knows how long,
Marguerite M (27:43):
Hopefully, months!
Carlos Faraco (27:44):
Hopefully months!
Karrah Ben (27:46):
I would just keep in mind, too, CSR and Division of receipt
and referral, they sort through over100,000 applications and the closer to the
receipt date you are, the larger numberof applications are actually reviewing.
And so they try to get throughthese as timely as they can
and as efficiently as they can.
But if you submit far in advanceof the deadline, there's a higher
(28:07):
likelihood that any errors willbe found early on in the process.
And you may have the opportunityto fix those errors and still
resubmit for the same cycle.
So I know we keep kind of reiteratingthis, but I these are very common
errors that happen every day.
And like I said, we're here to help andwe want these applications to come in.
(28:27):
We want the best science to befunded and seeing things not come
through because of small errors.
We're not trying to make lifemore difficult for everybody.
We want an even playingfield for everybody
Marguer (28:37):
Yes, help us, help you.
Carlos Farac (28:39):
And if there is an error that you do find and you have
submitted ahead of time, well, youhave, I believe, 48 hours correct?
to resubmit that and correct those errors.
Marguerite Matthews (28:49):
Lauren, do you have any advice?
Lauren Ullrich (28:50):
I would say, you know, Carlos stole the advice
that I was going to give, so...
Marguerite Matthews (28:56):
Snatched it right out of your brain
Lauren U (28:56):
...And so I would say, um, the other player in this process
that we haven't talked about that muchis the grants office at your institution.
Because that is often the personthat actually hits submit.
It's no longer you putting your stuffinto an envelope and sending it off
to the postal service by yourself
Marguerite Matth (29:16):
handing it off
Laure (29:17):
Now there's an additional person, and we have had situations
where a draft of the application wasuploaded instead of the final copy.
And because it wasn't submittedearly enough, it wasn't caught.
And that was actually what went throughreview, which is, like, you know,
the nightmare scenario that wakesyou up in the middle of the night.
And so the earlier you submit, the moretime you have to look over that final
(29:41):
copy that mirrors what the reviewerswill see, and you can check and make
sure that it that it looks right.
What about you, Marguerite?
Marguerite Matthe (29:49):
I can imagine that our listeners might be very
overwhelmed with the thought ofsomething bad happening after they've
hit submit or their business officialat their university has hit submit.
But I just want to encourageyou to be confident in the
work that you have put in.
Make yourself a checklist.
Take things off of the FOA, put it ina way that you will look through it and
(30:10):
be able to go through your application.
And it's important to readthings carefully, but there
are a lot of things to read.
Just take your time and the more timeyou give yourself to prepare your
application, the more likely you're goingto be able to submit something that is
in compliance that is responsive, thatdoes meet the eligibility criteria, that
does get assigned to the right place.
(30:31):
Many people submit their applicationssuccessfully and many people get awards.
So it's something that can happen,but you just want to ensure that you
are doing everything that you can inyour power to make sure that you make
your life easier and then you allowus, that once it reaches us here at
NIH that we are able to make sure thatyou're getting a good review and things
(30:54):
can go smoothly from that point on.
Karrah Benson (30:56):
And I'd like to just add to that.
We have a much larger percentageof the applications that do
come through without problems.
We're just, you know, touchingon some of the problems because
we hope for the day where everyapplication comes through completed
Marguerite Matthews (31:10):
Exactly
Karrah B (31:10):
and none are sent back or rejected for any minor errors.
That is our dream.
Lauren Ullrich (31:16):
Mmhmm
Karrah Be (31:17):
For every application to come through problem free.
Marguerite Matthe (31:20):
We do want to see your application make it all
the way through the review process.
So again, help us help you.
Try to be as diligent as youcan on your end, and you know
we'll take it from there.
Lauren Ul (31:37):
So that's all we have time for today on Building up The Nerve.
So thank you again to our guests thisweek for sharing their expertise and
thank you to program director BobRiddle for our theme song and music.
We'll see you next time whenwe tackle scientific review.
You confined past episodes of thispodcast and many more grant application
resources on the web at NINDS.nih.gov.
Marguerite Mat (31:59):
You can email us your questions at NINDSNervePod@nih.gov.
Make sure you subscribe to the podcaston Apple podcasts or your favorite
podcast app so you don't miss an episode.
We'll see you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb
Joy is essential. And it's also elusive. You can't order it, borrow it, or simply hope it into life. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence: The Joy 101 Podcast with Hoda! Best known for her Emmy-winning work and co-anchoring Today, Hoda Kotb infuses her authenticity, curiosity, and warmth into conversations with the world’s most fascinating people. Entertainment legends, sport icons, wellness experts, and everyday folks will share how they find, allow, and experience joy. Hoda will offer her own tips and takes on seeking a more balanced, harmonious life. If you're craving inspiration, support, and useful tools to maximize your joy, tune in to these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Joy after a breakup, joy as an empty-nester, joy after loss, joy as a caretaker — Hoda's new podcast will speak to you. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb, an iHeartPodcast.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com