November 7, 2025 • 33 mins
Urgent programs and tight grants can push culture work to the margins, but that’s exactly where nonprofit teams lose speed and trust. We sit down with strategist Page Hinerman of Page Capacity Builders to unpack how hybrid and remote teams thrive when leaders treat culture as core infrastructure. From rethinking “all‑staff” meetings to redesigning one‑on‑ones, we get tactical about turning updates into strategy, building psychological safety, and aligning back‑office work with frontline impact.
Page shares battle‑tested ideas from years of capacity building across nonprofits, philanthropy, and government. We talk about the small moves that change everything: 10‑minute norms at the start of staff meetings, values activation that gets specific (transparency becomes shared budgets and decision logs), and monthly cross‑functional touchpoints that keep marketing and fundraising anchored in program reality. If your hybrid team feels siloed or transactional, you’ll learn how to reset communications, protect relational time, and make space for trust without sacrificing delivery.
We also dig into hiring and sustainability. Using values to screen candidates prevents costly misalignment and lowers turnover; planning sooner—long before a grant deadline—keeps compliance tight and teams steady. Page outlines how consultants can fill true capacity gaps while leaving behind tools, skills, and networks so organizations sustain progress after the engagement ends. Expect clear steps you can try this week and a mindset shift that reframes culture from “nice to have” into the fastest route to outcomes.
If this conversation helps you see a better path for your team, follow the show, share it with a fellow leader, and leave a quick review. Your feedback helps more nonprofits find practical strategies that actually work.
Get free nonprofit professional development resources, connections to cause work peers, and more at https://nonprofithub.org
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
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SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear.
Joined today by Paige Heinerman,who is the founder and chief
strategist at Paige CapacityBuilders.
Paige, welcome in.
Super excited to have you heretoday.
Hi, Megan.
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm glad to be here.
So good.
Okay, so I am excited fordigging into this conversation.
(00:41):
It's not one that I think we'vehad on the podcast, at least
lately.
So I think that that's going tobe super exciting.
But before we dig into that, goahead and tell the audience just
a little bit about yourself,kind of your story and how you
got to the work that you'redoing today that has led us to
this conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Good question.
So I started doing social impactwork in about 2008.
And I was in an organization,and I have a few stories about
that related to what we're goingto talk about today, too.
I was in an organization thatwas providing direct services on
the ground in Baltimore City.
I was in admin, so I was doinggrants management, fund
(01:19):
development work, right?
So I wasn't necessarilyproviding services, but I was
doing the work to support thoseservices.
And it was an amazing time in mycareer.
It was an amazing place to starta career in that social
nonprofit sector.
And then from there, I reallyhad the ability to do a lot of
creation of programming thatextended across the country.
(01:42):
They were really fortunate tohave funding that allowed them
to do training and technicalassistance to other
organizations.
And I was tasked with that.
And so through that, I branchedoff and created my own
consulting business doing verymuch of the same work.
There's just so much need forcapacity support in the social
(02:03):
sector, whether it's in theprofit, philanthropy, or
government.
We know not everybody, not everyposition is always hired when it
should be.
There are gaps in resources,gaps in staffing, whether it's
knowledge, skills, justcapacity.
And so that's really where Iplug in.
My experience for a decade inthe other on-the-ground
(02:26):
nonprofit really gave me, it wasa great testing ground to create
and develop and really hone myskills in a variety of areas
related to organizationaldevelopment and sustainability.
So that's kind of how I got intoall of this.
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
Yeah.
And I feel like, especially atsome of the conferences I've
been to lately and just kind ofsome of the conversations that
I'm seeing on LinkedIn,understanding capacity is the
buzzword right now.
Right.
People are, I feel like finallystarting to have these
conversations where previously,especially in nonprofit, it's
been something that we've kindof glossed over as like, well,
(03:03):
just how it is because of thebudget.
It's just how it is because ofstaffing, whatever the case may
be.
And I feel like we're finally ina moment where people are
starting to say, maybe itdoesn't have to be that way.
SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is kind of exciting, Ithink.
Yeah, it is because you know,you don't, it doesn't have to
operate this way.
It really doesn't.
And when you look at the workthat folks are doing, like
sometimes it's the life-savingwork, literally life-saving.
You know, you're you're housingpeople, you're feeding people,
you're ensuring equitable accessto education, to health
(03:38):
resources, so many things,right?
That so many of us just take forgranted because we have that
access or we have the thatconnectivity.
But when you really see that, itreally drives, you know, the
desire to push that work andteach people you don't have to,
you don't have to struggle likethis.
We don't have to do it likethis.
There, there are other ways tobuild capacity.
(04:00):
I think too, with that, I alwaysremind folks, you know, we're
not good at everything.
We can't be good at everything.
And that's okay.
And it's okay to say, like, Ican't, like, maybe I have the
skill, but I'm only one person,and there's only, you know, 24
hours in the day.
So it's not a it's not a deficitthing.
(04:22):
And I think that's some of themindset shift and culture shift
we've gotten to or started toget to in the sector as a whole,
of like, it's okay to ask forhelp.
It's not a deficit if you don'thave the capacity because there
are people out there to supportit.
SPEAKER_01 (04:38):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah.
Okay.
So part of, and I think this iswhere we're gonna really dig in
today.
Part of building that capacity,right?
And we've had such a shift inoptions for this, is on hybrid
teams, right?
Of like of in and out or fullyremote or you know, people who
(05:00):
might not be seeing each otheron a daily basis.
I think the pandemic gave us allan eye-opener on what is
possible for hybrid.
But it also, I think, can itbring up questions, especially
for leadership and that's uh youyikes, it's such a debate about
how do we trust and empowerthose folks?
(05:23):
Right?
How do we make sure that theteam is still a team and still
has camaraderie and still issupporting each other well when
we're not face to face all thetime?
So I'd love to hear from you.
Maybe let's just start as ajumping off point.
Let's talk about an example ofsomeone that you have worked
with that has done this well.
(05:43):
What does it look like for ahybrid team to be performing
well?
SPEAKER_02 (05:48):
Yeah.
Well, admittedly, I will saythat folks come to me because
they're usually needing someareas, which is okay.
Sure.
Okay, right.
We have the conversation oflike, and this this is the
reality, right?
Is like folks are doing thework.
They're doing the work, but youhave to make speech.
(06:09):
There's other work that has tobe done internally, whether it's
internally as a person orinternally as a team or
internally as an organization,that we don't focus on enough.
Um, and then you start to seecracks in it happening.
And we, you know, talk aboutthese touchy-feely words like
culture building and um yourvalues, right?
(06:30):
And again, getting into thesector and some of the mindset
shift.
I think we're getting there toreally like put action behind
those things.
Okay, this isn't just about liketouchy-feely, um, the nonprofit.
You know, you like I hear folksthat are not in the social
sector, you know, think thatwe're kind of touch and go.
Um it's all about emotions andfeelings and hasn't, and it's
like, no, this work is heavilyrooted in research,
(06:53):
evidence-based, you know,well-tested practices, but it's
like I mentioned before, it'scritical work.
This is timely, urgent work.
Um, and so when you're doingthat, people often don't step
back and take the time to dointentional things like culture
(07:16):
setting, values activation,trust building, team building,
you know, all those things.
Um, and we're kind of like, no,no, no, we got to get to the, we
have to get to that grantdeadline.
We have to get to the deadlineto ensure these folks don't miss
their housing opportunity at theshelter tonight.
We have to, you know, so there'sso many variables that
(07:37):
rightfully and understandably sopull us away from this other
work.
But what ends up happening overtime, unless you are like some
special unicorn team, andleadership it plays the biggest
role here, right?
But you you have to just reallymake the space for it.
And so I teach often a lot teamshow to make that space because
(07:59):
it feels daunting.
It feels like, well, we webarely have the time to meet as
a team.
How the heck are we gonna makespace to team build or whatever?
You know, and so then we getinto questions like, well, how
are you using your staffmeetings?
What do you do in that space?
And then the questions, youknow, oh wow, well, that's a we
give updates.
And I always caution folks likeupdates can be an email.
(08:22):
Updates are important, it's andsometimes in a team culture,
that's how you guys connect,that's how you celebrate, but
the bulk of that can be in anemail, even if it's every week,
once a month, whatever cadencefolks decide, you can save pull
one update out that maybe is acelebration or a success that
(08:43):
you can share and take up maybefive minutes versus 45 minutes
of the hour.
Um and then that activity initself is building trust, right?
That consistent celebration is atouch point of happiness and joy
for people.
It's also another space forpeople to be like, wow, we you
(09:05):
know, we were a bit updated onthis thing that's going on for
the that team over there, youknow.
So I think there are a lot of alot of things that can be done.
But yeah, people typically cometo me because they need some
support.
But the beautiful thing, right?
But the beautiful thing is thatyou can see in real time,
(09:25):
because we're talking about likehybrid or remote teams, right,
that aren't together all thetime.
And typically when they aretogether, they're doing the
work.
unknown (09:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:35):
Uh they say the team, well, you'll hear, well,
we have our in-person all-staffmeeting once a month.
And that space usually ends upbeing for updates, you know.
And I'm like, okay, half of thatmeeting should be for
strategizing, future planning,sustainability planning, and the
other half of that time shouldbe for team building, trust
building, culture building,value setting, values alignment,
(09:57):
implementation.
There's so much that can be donethere that actually directly
impacts the work.
But funders don't want to hearabout that, right?
It's not something that you'rereporting, it's not a data point
you're collecting.
It's not an activity that wasfunded.
And so I think, you know, we geta bit away from that of doing
it, you know, because we're inthe realm of like, okay, these
(10:18):
are our funded priorities andactivities.
But once folks realize theimpact that your culture, the
trust on the team has on thesuccess of those activities is
when you really start tounderstand why it's so important
to do them.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
That's so good.
I feel like so often in thissector, you're you are
absolutely correct, right?
We've we have taken a kind ofmindset where like only the
frontline deliverable workmatters, right?
I was actually just working withan organization a couple weeks
ago and I went to their alltheir staff meeting.
(11:00):
You know who wasn't invited tothe staff meeting?
The folks which like I I can seethe face you're making.
I can make a few guesses.
Why would anybody not be invitedto this staff meeting?
The people who were not invitedwere the folks who worked in, I
would say, like back officetasks.
Oh, interesting.
(11:21):
Right?
It was uh the folks fromfundraising and development and
marketing and HR and accounting,right?
None of those folks were in theroom.
It was this the all-staffmeeting, and I'm putting that in
air quotes, was for frontline uhboots on the ground serving the
constituents of thatorganization, right?
(11:43):
And they had what's so funny isthat they had brought me in to
do some consulting work formarketing and fundraising
because they felt like whatmarketing and fundraising was
talking about didn't match themission of what was happening.
And I was like, Yeah, but if youdon't ever let them come to the
meeting, how are they supposedto know what's happening?
(12:03):
Right.
And so, like, I it that was apretty easy disconnect to solve,
if you will, right?
Yeah.
But so often we get stuck in aus and them, right?
There's the the doers of themission, and then there's the
people behind the scenes who aremaking the mission happen in
their own administrative ormarketing kind of ways.
(12:24):
Talk about how as a leader wecan bridge that gap.
How do how do we embrace theidea of like whole team instead
of just because individual teamsare important, and don't get me
wrong.
The frontline folks need to havea place for them to talk about
how they are going to deliverthat product best, right?
The marketing team has to have ameeting to talk about what the
(12:44):
campaign is going to look likeand they should be working with
development on that.
Cool.
But at the end of the day, thatbig if you are the leader of the
big overarching umbrella, how dowe build consistent like
cohesiveness across team as awhole?
SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
Yeah, I mean, so I'll just give real life
examples and stories from my owndirect experiences because it's
even in how you set up the spacewhere people are sitting.
Oh, okay.
Um yeah, so oftentimes, andevery organization is different,
but if you think about a directservice organization that is
(13:24):
supporting the community wherefolks are coming in, receiving
services kind of flowing in andout of the building, a building,
oftentimes that happens on thefirst floor.
Obviously, if there's multiplefloors, it's you know all over.
But let's say it's a two orthree-story building, and all of
your service direct services arehappening on the first or maybe
first and second floor.
(13:45):
And then you have your adminstaff that's on the third floor.
You have created this ivorytower unintentionally, right?
And so you have the best peopleat the top of the food chain
because this is just how wethink as humans, it's how we're
socialized to think, it's howwe're educated to think.
(14:06):
And we do, as adults, even likeunconsciously, subconsciously
think these ways.
So there's a lot of psychologythat goes into trust building uh
really effectively.
This is not stuff here, folks.
This is like the real deal.
So even creating that space, sobeing really intentional about
where people are sitting, whattheir titles are, um, how they
(14:30):
interact with the differentteams.
You know, you and I have bothtalked about like the team
meeting space.
You know, it should be aninclusive space, not an
exclusive space.
And then each of thoseindividual teams should have
their own individual spacebecause they do specific things
that the rest of us can't, youknow, it's not relatable, it's
not relevant.
(14:50):
Um, and they need to do theirwork.
But even in that space, that canlook really different, right?
And that's up to that individualleader, whether it's a you know,
team of one, two, or twenty on asmall team, you know, it can
look so many different ways inhow you operate that.
When I dealt with or worked withorganizations with a hybrid
model where they're coming inand out, um like the cadence of
(15:16):
the meetings and those touchpoints, the communications,
those are another huge thing.
Like, how are you communicating?
When are you communicating?
About what are youcommunicating?
I have asked leaders, so when,because I've seen on teams,
well, okay, tell me about yourone-on-ones you're having with
your team.
And if it's um, I recently had aleader say, because there was
(15:39):
there were folks feeling leftout, like they're not having
one-on-ones, and we makeassumptions about why we're not
having those one-on-ones, eventhough we know we shouldn't do
that, like we shouldn't look upour illness on web and on DMD,
but we still do it andself-diagnose.
(16:00):
So, you know, it's it's a habit,but when I asked the leader,
like, okay, tell me about yourone-on-one structure, and she
said, I'm I have meetingone-on-one meetings when I need
something.
Oh, and so there were there's alot there, right?
So there's a conversation withthe leader of okay, well, let's
flip the script a bit.
How would you feel if someonejust connected with you when
(16:23):
they needed something from you?
Yeah, and I I talk a lot aboutthis in fundraising too, right?
Sure.
The relationship is the key tounlocking dollars to unlocking
trust to unlocking so, so manythings.
And so helping this individualunderstand the importance of
(16:46):
your behavior, your actions.
She had no intention of beingmore transactional, she had no
idea, right?
And that's why it's alsoimportant we make the space to
step back and reflect on thesethings, you know.
So we can we can ask ourselvesthese questions, like, how am I
showing up?
unknown (17:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:05):
What do folks and asking?
If you're afraid to ask that,you know, like that's a telltale
sign right there, that there'sprobably some some flags.
Or if you're finding like you'rereally frustrated with your
team, um, when people feel likethey're not performing, they're
how they just never meet theexpectations.
I would really take a hard lookat yourself and say, okay, like
(17:28):
what am I not communicating in away that can be received by them
because you're not the audience,they are.
And so that can really get ininto things as well with
communication, how we show up.
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SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
The majority of our audience on the podcast, as we
know, is nonprofit leaders,right?
So they are either CEOs orfounders or heads of
departments.
Generally, in you know, I wouldsay some of the startup to
mid-sized organizations.
That tends to be who ouraudience is.
So if those leaders arelistening today and they're
going, oh, yeah, that soundslike us, right?
(18:58):
Oh, maybe I have been makingthose mistakes and I I can now
that I think about it andsomeone who brings it to light,
I can see myself in that.
If that's, I want to have youspeak to that person for a
moment.
Right.
If all of a sudden they have hadthis revelation of like, oh
yeah, I do only talk to my teamwhen I need something.
Oh yeah, I haven't done a goodjob at being vulnerable and
(19:21):
building that relationship andletting some of that stuff in.
That it can like anything else,right?
Changes is hard.
And so we have we have to kindof take it step by step because
changing everything all at once,like it'd be lovely if I could
just flip a switch and all of myculture problems were fixed,
right?
Yeah.
My whole team trusted me andeverything is amazing.
(19:42):
I would love that.
Uh, but if someone's listeningand they're going, yeah, you
know, that is us.
That is me.
We really need to take somesteps here.
Where would you tell them tostart?
Because sometimes even justfiguring out that first step can
be a little bit overwhelming.
So it's easier to just stay theway we are because I don't even
(20:02):
know how to start to fix theproblem.
So, where would you tell them tostart?
What's that first step looklike?
SPEAKER_02 (20:09):
I would say too, Megan, even if folks aren't
convinced, even if you'resaying, yeah, my team is not
performing or these things arenot going well or whatever, but
you're still not convinced thatyou have the time or you want to
take the time for this stuff,it's even more of a like test it
out.
Like just try it and see whathappens.
Absolutely.
(20:29):
And there's a lot of places youcan start.
So it's good, that's a reallygood question.
One thing I the first thing Irecommend is formalizing what
you're gonna do by announcingit, right?
Like communicate it to the team.
Hey, our culture is reallyimportant, the team is really
important.
We can't do this work withoutone another.
(20:51):
If we don't trust each other, ifwe don't have strong
relationships, you know, thenthe work is harder.
I mean, the research proves it.
unknown (20:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:00):
If we don't have psychological safety on the
team, if we don't have roleclarity, if we don't have, you
know, unbiased uh, you know,scenarios, if there's
inconsistent communication,things like that, right?
All of that breaks things down.
One place I recommend starting,other than saying to the team,
we're gonna do something aboutthis.
(21:20):
Like we're gonna go on a littleadventure together as a team.
We're gonna test some thingsout.
In your staff meeting, juststart the first 10 minutes.
Start by like codifying teamnorms.
unknown (21:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (21:33):
You can even yep.
So this is your meetings, howyou communicate, the timeliness
of communications, expectations.
And this can be on an org-widelevel, it can be like 30,000,
but almost things that wouldtouch everybody.
You can use your values as alaunching place for that
conversation.
(21:55):
Um, you could take it one valueat a time.
How do we activate this value inour daily work and be really
specific?
So if you have a value oftransparency, for example, I
would go deep.
You don't want to start withsaying something like, I'm
transparent because we have teammeetings and I share updates.
(22:16):
That's too broad.
We want to be really specificand say, I love the value of
transparency because in myone-on-one meetings with my
team, I have them consistently.
I provide space for a two-wayagenda, and I uh ensure that the
program manager has their mostup-to-date budget so that they
(22:40):
can operate their program.
Right.
So that's like real specificthings about transparency
because then you'll start torealize where your gaps are.
If you're too broad, you youcan't see the gaps.
And so I'd say, you know, withthe codifying the team norms and
you can use the values as aplace for that.
You could do that in 10 minutes.
(23:00):
You could even take it if youreally don't have the time, use
it in 10 minutes of your teammeeting.
Everybody goes around and justshares maybe the most of the
value that they most connectwith from the organization and
why.
You know, that's one you coulddo that in one meeting, maybe
the next meeting you build onthat, and you take one of the
values, and everybody talksabout how they activate that.
(23:24):
You know, so you can buildlittle mini things into that.
If you did that with each ofyour values, just going through
the exercise, you're buildingtrust, you're learning about one
another, you learn things.
Oh wow, um, Sally really doesn'tlike phone communication.
I have no idea.
You know, these are some ofthose organic things and
conversations that start to comeup as you're talking about
(23:47):
things that seem unrelated, butwe're not robots, we're humans,
we're beings that function, andwe spend a lot of time at work.
And especially if you're in thenonprofit sector, you know,
we're doing this out of apassion and a desire to make an
effect positive change.
And that is exhausting.
(24:10):
And it is, you know, it's I'm soglad you said that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:13):
I'm so glad you said that because part of me has as
we're talking about this islike, yes, absolutely we need to
be doing all these things.
But also the work that we'redoing is right on the front
lines and we're serving andwe're doing, and that work is
critical and so important.
And at some point, the balanceof all of the critical things is
a lot and it's heavy and it'sexhausting, right?
(24:36):
So I I do, I'm so glad you saidthat because I'm sure that there
are other people listeninggoing, I hear you.
That sounds great.
I just don't really see how Ican have that time.
SPEAKER_02 (24:47):
I know, and some teams don't even have the
capacity to have a team meeting.
You know, you can get togetheronce a quarter, even if it's
just virtually for an hour, youknow, once every three months
and just do team building.
You can just focus on that, youknow, or you could do half team
building and maybe half updatesis what y'all need.
There's no one size fits all, isalso what I'll say.
(25:09):
Is know your culture.
If you're not sure what yourorganizational culture is, and I
know we're talking about trust,but that's a piece of it.
If you're not sure, then that'sa flag to figure it out, you
know, like that's an indicatorof oh, if I can't put words to
this, and I'm not talking aboutreading your mission vision
statement.
That's not the culture, that'sthe work you're doing.
(25:32):
So because it gets into hiringpractices and it'll get into
you'll get five millionapplications.
How do you whittle that down?
One really quick way is toconnect your values with their
resume, you know.
There's so many things becausewhen you hire the wrong people
(25:53):
that are not aligned with theculture of your organization, is
when you start to have theseproblems, and that's why
turnover can be high, other thanburnout is a real thing.
That's a cultural piece too,right?
Yeah.
Um, we burn the candle at bothends, that's a norm.
Is that a you know?
We say those things.
Is that on like we're livingnorms that are not on paper?
(26:16):
We're not living the norms thatare on paper.
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
Right.
There's no job descriptionthat's gonna say we expect you
to be available 16 hours a dayon the weekends or what yeah,
that's not gonna be in there,but it is certainly a piece of
culture because the work is soimportant.
SPEAKER_02 (26:32):
Exactly.
So it's like, how can we balanceall of that since we know it's
an issue to prevent the burnout,prevent the turnover, because
that increases your costs.
It reduces your bottom line, youknow, when you don't have
someone in there providing theservices, when your finance
person is gone, you know,there's a big gap.
(26:53):
And that sometimes really tripsfolks up.
Yeah.
Um, I have seen people justtotally lose their whole thing
because they just couldn't get,you know, over that hump.
And really like taking a stepback and really, who are we
hiring?
How are we hiring?
Why are we hiring them?
How are they aligned?
Um, when I do hiring for people,I I ask um people questions
(27:13):
like, you know, which valuestood out to you the most from
the organization?
What one, you know, what valueof the organization resonates,
unless you don't have thempublicly available.
But it tells you a lot about aperson.
Did they even take the time tofind and research that look at
that?
No, it's so good.
Because if that's somethingimportant to you, and I'm sure
it is important to folks, thenit needs to be important to the
(27:37):
people you're hiring.
Or there's immediatemisalignment.
Because if communication is oneof your big values and you have
someone who does not prioritizecommunication, there will be
immediate, immediate barriersand challenges for the team.
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
So good.
So I think I'm gonna I'm gonnasegue us out a little bit here
because I'd love to learn alittle bit more, Paige, about
the work that Page CapacityBuilders does.
Because in my mind, it it's noneof this can happen unless we
have the capacity to do it,right?
So it's hard to build trust in ateam that doesn't have capacity
(28:12):
or enough people.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe work that you do.
SPEAKER_02 (28:16):
Yeah, really good point.
So um I uh I started PageCapacity Builders, oh, bless
you, about 11 years ago.
And because I saw the need inthe field, like folks' capacity
was low, or there wereconsultants coming in and doing
low quality work that wasupsetting to me because you
know, these are this is hardmoney for people to find and to
(28:38):
you know use it on someone talkabout trust, right?
Someone you think you can trust,uh it it hurts.
So really my role is withinstrategy design, facilitation,
organizational development work.
And when we talk about strategy,I do a lot of things related to
data strategy, fundraisingstrategy, communication
(29:01):
strategy, all things that arelike organizationally related.
Um, it's very broad, but I didsay I had really great testing
grounds for about a decade whereI actually created basically an
organization around training andtechnical assistance within
another organization.
So that's you know, essentiallywhat I do for others.
It's often that I'm doing, I'mplaying a role that is not a
(29:25):
hired role for staff, right?
You have you don't usually hiresomeone for their strategy
ability.
Um, you know, can theyfacilitate?
Do they have the contentexpertise in this area?
Can they write grants?
Do they, you know, so it'ssomething more specific.
And so I often fill thecapacity, capacities where there
(29:46):
isn't necessarily a hired personfor that, or maybe there is a
hired person for that, but theirown capacity, they just can't
take more on.
Um, and so that's where where Icome in.
Yeah, I can't imagine doinganything else.
I love to partner with myclients.
Yeah, I really can't.
I love to partner with myclients and build their capacity
(30:09):
in ways that help them sustainbeyond me, right?
If they have to continue to paya consultant, that's not truly
building their capacity becausethey'll uh consultants are not
cheap.
Right.
You know, it's not, it's notcheap.
Well, it ends up usually beingcheaper than a staff person, but
it's not cheap, you know, to dothat, whether it's a staff
person or a consultant.
(30:30):
So I want to build their abilityto know how to do the work
better, to have the tools to dothe work better, the knowledge
to do the work better, and thenetworks.
And so I really pride myself innot just like plugging in and
plugging out, really plug in andhelp build their capacity truly
and then ease my way out, youknow, when that time comes and
when when they're ready forthat.
So yeah, that's a little bitabout me.
(30:52):
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (30:53):
Uh and if we wanted to learn more about that work,
where would we find you?
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn um under my name, Paige
Heinerman.
Um, I do love to share resourcesthere a lot.
Um, and then I also have awebsite, page
capacitybuilders.com.
I'll just share more about youknow my clients and the type of
work I do there.
I also have a blog there too,because I just love sharing
resources.
SPEAKER_01 (31:16):
I can't help it.
So good.
I love it.
Okay, so one final question aswe wrap up because I mean, so
good.
I feel like we could do a wholeseparate episode on capacity,
but we'll get there down theline.
But in the meantime, thequestion that I've been asking
everyone as we close eachinterview this season is if you
could give one piece of wisdomor encouragement to nonprofit
(31:39):
leaders right now in thisseason, what would it be?
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
Start planning sooner than later.
Whatever it is, do not put itoff.
Um, I do a lot of sustainabilitywork with the federal government
and their new grantees that havenever had federal funds.
And it is heartbreaking whenleaders wait to the last minute.
(32:04):
So just plan whatever it is.
If you're thinking about doing,oh, we need to get to that team
building stuff, we need do it.
Don't wait.
Just don't wait because you'llnever get to it and the
opportunities will pass.
And if you're not convinced oryou just really don't think you
have the time, try it, just take10 minutes, just little baby
(32:29):
steps, and you will see andconsistency.
Yes.
I'm sorry, you asked for onething, and I'm like, that's
okay.
I'll take two for one.
The consistency of thoseactions, just keep it going, and
over time you will see change.
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
So yeah, so good.
Paige, thank you.
This has been a really goodconversation, and I think given
people a lot of things to chewon and to think about, but also
some really actionable, like,hey, here's what you can do.
So I that's always my favoritekind of conversation.
So thank you.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:01):
It's no fun when it's too pie in the sky.
It makes how can we do this?
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:07):
Yeah, I really appreciate the practical balance
there.
So thank you so much for joiningus.
This has been awesome.
Um, absolutely, my pleasure.
This has been another episode ofthe Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast,
joined by guest Paige Heinerman,who is the founder and chief
strategist at Page CapacityBuilders.
I'm your host, Megan Speer, andwe'll see you next time.
Marketing Support Network is proud to serve the
nonprofit community by offeringfull service contact center
fulfillment, digital marketing,and fundraising services.
Your vision is our mission, andwe can't wait to partner with
you.
VisitMarketingSupportNetwork.com for
more information.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast.
I'm your host, Megan Spear.
Joined today by Paige Heinerman,who is the founder and chief
strategist at Paige CapacityBuilders.
Paige, welcome in.
Super excited to have you heretoday.
Hi, Megan.
Thanks so much for having me.
I'm glad to be here.
So good.
Okay, so I am excited fordigging into this conversation.
(00:41):
It's not one that I think we'vehad on the podcast, at least
lately.
So I think that that's going tobe super exciting.
But before we dig into that, goahead and tell the audience just
a little bit about yourself,kind of your story and how you
got to the work that you'redoing today that has led us to
this conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Yeah, yeah.
Good question.
So I started doing social impactwork in about 2008.
And I was in an organization,and I have a few stories about
that related to what we're goingto talk about today, too.
I was in an organization thatwas providing direct services on
the ground in Baltimore City.
I was in admin, so I was doinggrants management, fund
(01:19):
development work, right?
So I wasn't necessarilyproviding services, but I was
doing the work to support thoseservices.
And it was an amazing time in mycareer.
It was an amazing place to starta career in that social
nonprofit sector.
And then from there, I reallyhad the ability to do a lot of
creation of programming thatextended across the country.
(01:42):
They were really fortunate tohave funding that allowed them
to do training and technicalassistance to other
organizations.
And I was tasked with that.
And so through that, I branchedoff and created my own
consulting business doing verymuch of the same work.
There's just so much need forcapacity support in the social
(02:03):
sector, whether it's in theprofit, philanthropy, or
government.
We know not everybody, not everyposition is always hired when it
should be.
There are gaps in resources,gaps in staffing, whether it's
knowledge, skills, justcapacity.
And so that's really where Iplug in.
My experience for a decade inthe other on-the-ground
(02:26):
nonprofit really gave me, it wasa great testing ground to create
and develop and really hone myskills in a variety of areas
related to organizationaldevelopment and sustainability.
So that's kind of how I got intoall of this.
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
Yeah.
And I feel like, especially atsome of the conferences I've
been to lately and just kind ofsome of the conversations that
I'm seeing on LinkedIn,understanding capacity is the
buzzword right now.
Right.
People are, I feel like finallystarting to have these
conversations where previously,especially in nonprofit, it's
been something that we've kindof glossed over as like, well,
(03:03):
just how it is because of thebudget.
It's just how it is because ofstaffing, whatever the case may
be.
And I feel like we're finally ina moment where people are
starting to say, maybe itdoesn't have to be that way.
SPEAKER_02 (03:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is kind of exciting, Ithink.
Yeah, it is because you know,you don't, it doesn't have to
operate this way.
It really doesn't.
And when you look at the workthat folks are doing, like
sometimes it's the life-savingwork, literally life-saving.
You know, you're you're housingpeople, you're feeding people,
you're ensuring equitable accessto education, to health
(03:38):
resources, so many things,right?
That so many of us just take forgranted because we have that
access or we have the thatconnectivity.
But when you really see that, itreally drives, you know, the
desire to push that work andteach people you don't have to,
you don't have to struggle likethis.
We don't have to do it likethis.
There, there are other ways tobuild capacity.
(04:00):
I think too, with that, I alwaysremind folks, you know, we're
not good at everything.
We can't be good at everything.
And that's okay.
And it's okay to say, like, Ican't, like, maybe I have the
skill, but I'm only one person,and there's only, you know, 24
hours in the day.
So it's not a it's not a deficitthing.
(04:22):
And I think that's some of themindset shift and culture shift
we've gotten to or started toget to in the sector as a whole,
of like, it's okay to ask forhelp.
It's not a deficit if you don'thave the capacity because there
are people out there to supportit.
SPEAKER_01 (04:38):
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah.
Okay.
So part of, and I think this iswhere we're gonna really dig in
today.
Part of building that capacity,right?
And we've had such a shift inoptions for this, is on hybrid
teams, right?
Of like of in and out or fullyremote or you know, people who
(05:00):
might not be seeing each otheron a daily basis.
I think the pandemic gave us allan eye-opener on what is
possible for hybrid.
But it also, I think, can itbring up questions, especially
for leadership and that's uh youyikes, it's such a debate about
how do we trust and empowerthose folks?
(05:23):
Right?
How do we make sure that theteam is still a team and still
has camaraderie and still issupporting each other well when
we're not face to face all thetime?
So I'd love to hear from you.
Maybe let's just start as ajumping off point.
Let's talk about an example ofsomeone that you have worked
with that has done this well.
(05:43):
What does it look like for ahybrid team to be performing
well?
SPEAKER_02 (05:48):
Yeah.
Well, admittedly, I will saythat folks come to me because
they're usually needing someareas, which is okay.
Sure.
Okay, right.
We have the conversation oflike, and this this is the
reality, right?
Is like folks are doing thework.
They're doing the work, but youhave to make speech.
(06:09):
There's other work that has tobe done internally, whether it's
internally as a person orinternally as a team or
internally as an organization,that we don't focus on enough.
Um, and then you start to seecracks in it happening.
And we, you know, talk aboutthese touchy-feely words like
culture building and um yourvalues, right?
(06:30):
And again, getting into thesector and some of the mindset
shift.
I think we're getting there toreally like put action behind
those things.
Okay, this isn't just about liketouchy-feely, um, the nonprofit.
You know, you like I hear folksthat are not in the social
sector, you know, think thatwe're kind of touch and go.
Um it's all about emotions andfeelings and hasn't, and it's
like, no, this work is heavilyrooted in research,
(06:53):
evidence-based, you know,well-tested practices, but it's
like I mentioned before, it'scritical work.
This is timely, urgent work.
Um, and so when you're doingthat, people often don't step
back and take the time to dointentional things like culture
(07:16):
setting, values activation,trust building, team building,
you know, all those things.
Um, and we're kind of like, no,no, no, we got to get to the, we
have to get to that grantdeadline.
We have to get to the deadlineto ensure these folks don't miss
their housing opportunity at theshelter tonight.
We have to, you know, so there'sso many variables that
(07:37):
rightfully and understandably sopull us away from this other
work.
But what ends up happening overtime, unless you are like some
special unicorn team, andleadership it plays the biggest
role here, right?
But you you have to just reallymake the space for it.
And so I teach often a lot teamshow to make that space because
(07:59):
it feels daunting.
It feels like, well, we webarely have the time to meet as
a team.
How the heck are we gonna makespace to team build or whatever?
You know, and so then we getinto questions like, well, how
are you using your staffmeetings?
What do you do in that space?
And then the questions, youknow, oh wow, well, that's a we
give updates.
And I always caution folks likeupdates can be an email.
(08:22):
Updates are important, it's andsometimes in a team culture,
that's how you guys connect,that's how you celebrate, but
the bulk of that can be in anemail, even if it's every week,
once a month, whatever cadencefolks decide, you can save pull
one update out that maybe is acelebration or a success that
(08:43):
you can share and take up maybefive minutes versus 45 minutes
of the hour.
Um and then that activity initself is building trust, right?
That consistent celebration is atouch point of happiness and joy
for people.
It's also another space forpeople to be like, wow, we you
(09:05):
know, we were a bit updated onthis thing that's going on for
the that team over there, youknow.
So I think there are a lot of alot of things that can be done.
But yeah, people typically cometo me because they need some
support.
But the beautiful thing, right?
But the beautiful thing is thatyou can see in real time,
(09:25):
because we're talking about likehybrid or remote teams, right,
that aren't together all thetime.
And typically when they aretogether, they're doing the
work.
unknown (09:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:35):
Uh they say the team, well, you'll hear, well,
we have our in-person all-staffmeeting once a month.
And that space usually ends upbeing for updates, you know.
And I'm like, okay, half of thatmeeting should be for
strategizing, future planning,sustainability planning, and the
other half of that time shouldbe for team building, trust
building, culture building,value setting, values alignment,
(09:57):
implementation.
There's so much that can be donethere that actually directly
impacts the work.
But funders don't want to hearabout that, right?
It's not something that you'rereporting, it's not a data point
you're collecting.
It's not an activity that wasfunded.
And so I think, you know, we geta bit away from that of doing
it, you know, because we're inthe realm of like, okay, these
(10:18):
are our funded priorities andactivities.
But once folks realize theimpact that your culture, the
trust on the team has on thesuccess of those activities is
when you really start tounderstand why it's so important
to do them.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
That's so good.
I feel like so often in thissector, you're you are
absolutely correct, right?
We've we have taken a kind ofmindset where like only the
frontline deliverable workmatters, right?
I was actually just working withan organization a couple weeks
ago and I went to their alltheir staff meeting.
(11:00):
You know who wasn't invited tothe staff meeting?
The folks which like I I can seethe face you're making.
I can make a few guesses.
Why would anybody not be invitedto this staff meeting?
The people who were not invitedwere the folks who worked in, I
would say, like back officetasks.
Oh, interesting.
(11:21):
Right?
It was uh the folks fromfundraising and development and
marketing and HR and accounting,right?
None of those folks were in theroom.
It was this the all-staffmeeting, and I'm putting that in
air quotes, was for frontline uhboots on the ground serving the
constituents of thatorganization, right?
(11:43):
And they had what's so funny isthat they had brought me in to
do some consulting work formarketing and fundraising
because they felt like whatmarketing and fundraising was
talking about didn't match themission of what was happening.
And I was like, Yeah, but if youdon't ever let them come to the
meeting, how are they supposedto know what's happening?
(12:03):
Right.
And so, like, I it that was apretty easy disconnect to solve,
if you will, right?
Yeah.
But so often we get stuck in aus and them, right?
There's the the doers of themission, and then there's the
people behind the scenes who aremaking the mission happen in
their own administrative ormarketing kind of ways.
(12:24):
Talk about how as a leader wecan bridge that gap.
How do how do we embrace theidea of like whole team instead
of just because individual teamsare important, and don't get me
wrong.
The frontline folks need to havea place for them to talk about
how they are going to deliverthat product best, right?
The marketing team has to have ameeting to talk about what the
(12:44):
campaign is going to look likeand they should be working with
development on that.
Cool.
But at the end of the day, thatbig if you are the leader of the
big overarching umbrella, how dowe build consistent like
cohesiveness across team as awhole?
SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
Yeah, I mean, so I'll just give real life
examples and stories from my owndirect experiences because it's
even in how you set up the spacewhere people are sitting.
Oh, okay.
Um yeah, so oftentimes, andevery organization is different,
but if you think about a directservice organization that is
(13:24):
supporting the community wherefolks are coming in, receiving
services kind of flowing in andout of the building, a building,
oftentimes that happens on thefirst floor.
Obviously, if there's multiplefloors, it's you know all over.
But let's say it's a two orthree-story building, and all of
your service direct services arehappening on the first or maybe
first and second floor.
(13:45):
And then you have your adminstaff that's on the third floor.
You have created this ivorytower unintentionally, right?
And so you have the best peopleat the top of the food chain
because this is just how wethink as humans, it's how we're
socialized to think, it's howwe're educated to think.
(14:06):
And we do, as adults, even likeunconsciously, subconsciously
think these ways.
So there's a lot of psychologythat goes into trust building uh
really effectively.
This is not stuff here, folks.
This is like the real deal.
So even creating that space, sobeing really intentional about
where people are sitting, whattheir titles are, um, how they
(14:30):
interact with the differentteams.
You know, you and I have bothtalked about like the team
meeting space.
You know, it should be aninclusive space, not an
exclusive space.
And then each of thoseindividual teams should have
their own individual spacebecause they do specific things
that the rest of us can't, youknow, it's not relatable, it's
not relevant.
(14:50):
Um, and they need to do theirwork.
But even in that space, that canlook really different, right?
And that's up to that individualleader, whether it's a you know,
team of one, two, or twenty on asmall team, you know, it can
look so many different ways inhow you operate that.
When I dealt with or worked withorganizations with a hybrid
model where they're coming inand out, um like the cadence of
(15:16):
the meetings and those touchpoints, the communications,
those are another huge thing.
Like, how are you communicating?
When are you communicating?
About what are youcommunicating?
I have asked leaders, so when,because I've seen on teams,
well, okay, tell me about yourone-on-ones you're having with
your team.
And if it's um, I recently had aleader say, because there was
(15:39):
there were folks feeling leftout, like they're not having
one-on-ones, and we makeassumptions about why we're not
having those one-on-ones, eventhough we know we shouldn't do
that, like we shouldn't look upour illness on web and on DMD,
but we still do it andself-diagnose.
(16:00):
So, you know, it's it's a habit,but when I asked the leader,
like, okay, tell me about yourone-on-one structure, and she
said, I'm I have meetingone-on-one meetings when I need
something.
Oh, and so there were there's alot there, right?
So there's a conversation withthe leader of okay, well, let's
flip the script a bit.
How would you feel if someonejust connected with you when
(16:23):
they needed something from you?
Yeah, and I I talk a lot aboutthis in fundraising too, right?
Sure.
The relationship is the key tounlocking dollars to unlocking
trust to unlocking so, so manythings.
And so helping this individualunderstand the importance of
(16:46):
your behavior, your actions.
She had no intention of beingmore transactional, she had no
idea, right?
And that's why it's alsoimportant we make the space to
step back and reflect on thesethings, you know.
So we can we can ask ourselvesthese questions, like, how am I
showing up?
unknown (17:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:05):
What do folks and asking?
If you're afraid to ask that,you know, like that's a telltale
sign right there, that there'sprobably some some flags.
Or if you're finding like you'rereally frustrated with your
team, um, when people feel likethey're not performing, they're
how they just never meet theexpectations.
I would really take a hard lookat yourself and say, okay, like
(17:28):
what am I not communicating in away that can be received by them
because you're not the audience,they are.
And so that can really get ininto things as well with
communication, how we show up.
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SPEAKER_01 (18:33):
The majority of our audience on the podcast, as we
know, is nonprofit leaders,right?
So they are either CEOs orfounders or heads of
departments.
Generally, in you know, I wouldsay some of the startup to
mid-sized organizations.
That tends to be who ouraudience is.
So if those leaders arelistening today and they're
going, oh, yeah, that soundslike us, right?
(18:58):
Oh, maybe I have been makingthose mistakes and I I can now
that I think about it andsomeone who brings it to light,
I can see myself in that.
If that's, I want to have youspeak to that person for a
moment.
Right.
If all of a sudden they have hadthis revelation of like, oh
yeah, I do only talk to my teamwhen I need something.
Oh yeah, I haven't done a goodjob at being vulnerable and
(19:21):
building that relationship andletting some of that stuff in.
That it can like anything else,right?
Changes is hard.
And so we have we have to kindof take it step by step because
changing everything all at once,like it'd be lovely if I could
just flip a switch and all of myculture problems were fixed,
right?
Yeah.
My whole team trusted me andeverything is amazing.
(19:42):
I would love that.
Uh, but if someone's listeningand they're going, yeah, you
know, that is us.
That is me.
We really need to take somesteps here.
Where would you tell them tostart?
Because sometimes even justfiguring out that first step can
be a little bit overwhelming.
So it's easier to just stay theway we are because I don't even
(20:02):
know how to start to fix theproblem.
So, where would you tell them tostart?
What's that first step looklike?
SPEAKER_02 (20:09):
I would say too, Megan, even if folks aren't
convinced, even if you'resaying, yeah, my team is not
performing or these things arenot going well or whatever, but
you're still not convinced thatyou have the time or you want to
take the time for this stuff,it's even more of a like test it
out.
Like just try it and see whathappens.
Absolutely.
(20:29):
And there's a lot of places youcan start.
So it's good, that's a reallygood question.
One thing I the first thing Irecommend is formalizing what
you're gonna do by announcingit, right?
Like communicate it to the team.
Hey, our culture is reallyimportant, the team is really
important.
We can't do this work withoutone another.
(20:51):
If we don't trust each other, ifwe don't have strong
relationships, you know, thenthe work is harder.
I mean, the research proves it.
unknown (20:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (21:00):
If we don't have psychological safety on the
team, if we don't have roleclarity, if we don't have, you
know, unbiased uh, you know,scenarios, if there's
inconsistent communication,things like that, right?
All of that breaks things down.
One place I recommend starting,other than saying to the team,
we're gonna do something aboutthis.
(21:20):
Like we're gonna go on a littleadventure together as a team.
We're gonna test some thingsout.
In your staff meeting, juststart the first 10 minutes.
Start by like codifying teamnorms.
unknown (21:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (21:33):
You can even yep.
So this is your meetings, howyou communicate, the timeliness
of communications, expectations.
And this can be on an org-widelevel, it can be like 30,000,
but almost things that wouldtouch everybody.
You can use your values as alaunching place for that
conversation.
(21:55):
Um, you could take it one valueat a time.
How do we activate this value inour daily work and be really
specific?
So if you have a value oftransparency, for example, I
would go deep.
You don't want to start withsaying something like, I'm
transparent because we have teammeetings and I share updates.
(22:16):
That's too broad.
We want to be really specificand say, I love the value of
transparency because in myone-on-one meetings with my
team, I have them consistently.
I provide space for a two-wayagenda, and I uh ensure that the
program manager has their mostup-to-date budget so that they
(22:40):
can operate their program.
Right.
So that's like real specificthings about transparency
because then you'll start torealize where your gaps are.
If you're too broad, you youcan't see the gaps.
And so I'd say, you know, withthe codifying the team norms and
you can use the values as aplace for that.
You could do that in 10 minutes.
(23:00):
You could even take it if youreally don't have the time, use
it in 10 minutes of your teammeeting.
Everybody goes around and justshares maybe the most of the
value that they most connectwith from the organization and
why.
You know, that's one you coulddo that in one meeting, maybe
the next meeting you build onthat, and you take one of the
values, and everybody talksabout how they activate that.
(23:24):
You know, so you can buildlittle mini things into that.
If you did that with each ofyour values, just going through
the exercise, you're buildingtrust, you're learning about one
another, you learn things.
Oh wow, um, Sally really doesn'tlike phone communication.
I have no idea.
You know, these are some ofthose organic things and
conversations that start to comeup as you're talking about
(23:47):
things that seem unrelated, butwe're not robots, we're humans,
we're beings that function, andwe spend a lot of time at work.
And especially if you're in thenonprofit sector, you know,
we're doing this out of apassion and a desire to make an
effect positive change.
And that is exhausting.
(24:10):
And it is, you know, it's I'm soglad you said that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:13):
I'm so glad you said that because part of me has as
we're talking about this islike, yes, absolutely we need to
be doing all these things.
But also the work that we'redoing is right on the front
lines and we're serving andwe're doing, and that work is
critical and so important.
And at some point, the balanceof all of the critical things is
a lot and it's heavy and it'sexhausting, right?
(24:36):
So I I do, I'm so glad you saidthat because I'm sure that there
are other people listeninggoing, I hear you.
That sounds great.
I just don't really see how Ican have that time.
SPEAKER_02 (24:47):
I know, and some teams don't even have the
capacity to have a team meeting.
You know, you can get togetheronce a quarter, even if it's
just virtually for an hour, youknow, once every three months
and just do team building.
You can just focus on that, youknow, or you could do half team
building and maybe half updatesis what y'all need.
There's no one size fits all, isalso what I'll say.
(25:09):
Is know your culture.
If you're not sure what yourorganizational culture is, and I
know we're talking about trust,but that's a piece of it.
If you're not sure, then that'sa flag to figure it out, you
know, like that's an indicatorof oh, if I can't put words to
this, and I'm not talking aboutreading your mission vision
statement.
That's not the culture, that'sthe work you're doing.
(25:32):
So because it gets into hiringpractices and it'll get into
you'll get five millionapplications.
How do you whittle that down?
One really quick way is toconnect your values with their
resume, you know.
There's so many things becausewhen you hire the wrong people
(25:53):
that are not aligned with theculture of your organization, is
when you start to have theseproblems, and that's why
turnover can be high, other thanburnout is a real thing.
That's a cultural piece too,right?
Yeah.
Um, we burn the candle at bothends, that's a norm.
Is that a you know?
We say those things.
Is that on like we're livingnorms that are not on paper?
(26:16):
We're not living the norms thatare on paper.
SPEAKER_01 (26:18):
Right.
There's no job descriptionthat's gonna say we expect you
to be available 16 hours a dayon the weekends or what yeah,
that's not gonna be in there,but it is certainly a piece of
culture because the work is soimportant.
SPEAKER_02 (26:32):
Exactly.
So it's like, how can we balanceall of that since we know it's
an issue to prevent the burnout,prevent the turnover, because
that increases your costs.
It reduces your bottom line, youknow, when you don't have
someone in there providing theservices, when your finance
person is gone, you know,there's a big gap.
(26:53):
And that sometimes really tripsfolks up.
Yeah.
Um, I have seen people justtotally lose their whole thing
because they just couldn't get,you know, over that hump.
And really like taking a stepback and really, who are we
hiring?
How are we hiring?
Why are we hiring them?
How are they aligned?
Um, when I do hiring for people,I I ask um people questions
(27:13):
like, you know, which valuestood out to you the most from
the organization?
What one, you know, what valueof the organization resonates,
unless you don't have thempublicly available.
But it tells you a lot about aperson.
Did they even take the time tofind and research that look at
that?
No, it's so good.
Because if that's somethingimportant to you, and I'm sure
it is important to folks, thenit needs to be important to the
(27:37):
people you're hiring.
Or there's immediatemisalignment.
Because if communication is oneof your big values and you have
someone who does not prioritizecommunication, there will be
immediate, immediate barriersand challenges for the team.
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
So good.
So I think I'm gonna I'm gonnasegue us out a little bit here
because I'd love to learn alittle bit more, Paige, about
the work that Page CapacityBuilders does.
Because in my mind, it it's noneof this can happen unless we
have the capacity to do it,right?
So it's hard to build trust in ateam that doesn't have capacity
(28:12):
or enough people.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe work that you do.
SPEAKER_02 (28:16):
Yeah, really good point.
So um I uh I started PageCapacity Builders, oh, bless
you, about 11 years ago.
And because I saw the need inthe field, like folks' capacity
was low, or there wereconsultants coming in and doing
low quality work that wasupsetting to me because you
know, these are this is hardmoney for people to find and to
(28:38):
you know use it on someone talkabout trust, right?
Someone you think you can trust,uh it it hurts.
So really my role is withinstrategy design, facilitation,
organizational development work.
And when we talk about strategy,I do a lot of things related to
data strategy, fundraisingstrategy, communication
(29:01):
strategy, all things that arelike organizationally related.
Um, it's very broad, but I didsay I had really great testing
grounds for about a decade whereI actually created basically an
organization around training andtechnical assistance within
another organization.
So that's you know, essentiallywhat I do for others.
It's often that I'm doing, I'mplaying a role that is not a
(29:25):
hired role for staff, right?
You have you don't usually hiresomeone for their strategy
ability.
Um, you know, can theyfacilitate?
Do they have the contentexpertise in this area?
Can they write grants?
Do they, you know, so it'ssomething more specific.
And so I often fill thecapacity, capacities where there
(29:46):
isn't necessarily a hired personfor that, or maybe there is a
hired person for that, but theirown capacity, they just can't
take more on.
Um, and so that's where where Icome in.
Yeah, I can't imagine doinganything else.
I love to partner with myclients.
Yeah, I really can't.
I love to partner with myclients and build their capacity
(30:09):
in ways that help them sustainbeyond me, right?
If they have to continue to paya consultant, that's not truly
building their capacity becausethey'll uh consultants are not
cheap.
Right.
You know, it's not, it's notcheap.
Well, it ends up usually beingcheaper than a staff person, but
it's not cheap, you know, to dothat, whether it's a staff
person or a consultant.
(30:30):
So I want to build their abilityto know how to do the work
better, to have the tools to dothe work better, the knowledge
to do the work better, and thenetworks.
And so I really pride myself innot just like plugging in and
plugging out, really plug in andhelp build their capacity truly
and then ease my way out, youknow, when that time comes and
when when they're ready forthat.
So yeah, that's a little bitabout me.
(30:52):
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (30:53):
Uh and if we wanted to learn more about that work,
where would we find you?
SPEAKER_02 (30:57):
Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn um under my name, Paige
Heinerman.
Um, I do love to share resourcesthere a lot.
Um, and then I also have awebsite, page
capacitybuilders.com.
I'll just share more about youknow my clients and the type of
work I do there.
I also have a blog there too,because I just love sharing
resources.
SPEAKER_01 (31:16):
I can't help it.
So good.
I love it.
Okay, so one final question aswe wrap up because I mean, so
good.
I feel like we could do a wholeseparate episode on capacity,
but we'll get there down theline.
But in the meantime, thequestion that I've been asking
everyone as we close eachinterview this season is if you
could give one piece of wisdomor encouragement to nonprofit
(31:39):
leaders right now in thisseason, what would it be?
SPEAKER_02 (31:44):
Start planning sooner than later.
Whatever it is, do not put itoff.
Um, I do a lot of sustainabilitywork with the federal government
and their new grantees that havenever had federal funds.
And it is heartbreaking whenleaders wait to the last minute.
(32:04):
So just plan whatever it is.
If you're thinking about doing,oh, we need to get to that team
building stuff, we need do it.
Don't wait.
Just don't wait because you'llnever get to it and the
opportunities will pass.
And if you're not convinced oryou just really don't think you
have the time, try it, just take10 minutes, just little baby
(32:29):
steps, and you will see andconsistency.
Yes.
I'm sorry, you asked for onething, and I'm like, that's
okay.
I'll take two for one.
The consistency of thoseactions, just keep it going, and
over time you will see change.
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
So yeah, so good.
Paige, thank you.
This has been a really goodconversation, and I think given
people a lot of things to chewon and to think about, but also
some really actionable, like,hey, here's what you can do.
So I that's always my favoritekind of conversation.
So thank you.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:01):
It's no fun when it's too pie in the sky.
It makes how can we do this?
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:07):
Yeah, I really appreciate the practical balance
there.
So thank you so much for joiningus.
This has been awesome.
Um, absolutely, my pleasure.
This has been another episode ofthe Nonprofit Hub Radio Podcast,
joined by guest Paige Heinerman,who is the founder and chief
strategist at Page CapacityBuilders.
I'm your host, Megan Speer, andwe'll see you next time.
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